# Civil war buttons



## JGUIS (May 14, 2009)

I found one in the crawl of a cabin, but can't get it clean.  Should I make an electrolisis bucket?  Is there an easier way?  It's pretty solid, but I'm afraid of screwing it up, as it's my first good button.  Thanks for any help.


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## GuntherHess (May 14, 2009)

Never clean a civil war button by electrolysis unless you want to make it worthless.
 A little soap and water is best to use first.


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## JGUIS (May 14, 2009)

I did that already, used a toothbrush.  There is however, either a patina, or mineral buildup to the point that all of the detail is muddied up.  I would just like to get it to the point that I can determine exactly which type button it is, or read the text on the back.  I'd post a pic, but the eagle is almost invisible.


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## cc6pack (May 14, 2009)

Josh

 Post a clear close up of the front and back, and the diameter. If its a regular eagle button there's no real value there. Nice find but they're common as all get out. A lot of the buttons had gold gilt and the reaction between the ground, the brass, and gilt can be diffucult to clean. As gunther stated do not clean if you're sure what you're doing. I have an Alberts button book and can look up your button if you post a pic and description.


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## digger mcdirt (May 14, 2009)

As everyone says leave the Patina alone don't try to force it off you will ruin the value. You can soak it in a solution of about 50 % lemon juice and 50 % water and the crust on it will soften up. I do this on high end and low end buttons I dig. Just watch it and after it soaks for a few minutes take it out and brush it with a soft tooth brush. You can see if it needs to be put in and the steps repeated. Lemon juice will also bring out the gilt if it has any. There are a million different ways people swear by as for cleaning them ammonia is a good one for green patina but it is something you need to have experience with on soaking items or you will ruin them. I would use the lemon juice just watch it and don't leave it for long periods without taking it out and checking it. bob


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## RedGinger (May 14, 2009)

What is the button made of?  Brass?  If I lived in the South, I'd know because I'd be out looking for artifacts like that all the time.  Did anyone see the treasure hunters show on the travel channel where she is looking for civil war artifacts?  
 What is the best way to use ammonia?  I have a few things I'd like to clean up and I have not tried ammonia yet.  Thanks.


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## GuntherHess (May 14, 2009)

You can find civil war artifacts in the north too. Everyone was in on the fun[]
 You just dont have civil war battlefields up there.  You have something even better , revolutionary relics.


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## cc6pack (May 14, 2009)

Red

 I can only speak for Civil War collectors, DO NOT CLEAN any object. This pertains mainly to non ferris metals, iron objects are the exception. Most people want the object in found condition, a little dirt and definitely  any patina will only help in the way of thinking.  Below are two belt plates that were just rinsed with water and lightly brushed off.


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## cc6pack (May 14, 2009)

.


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## Staunton Dan (May 14, 2009)

I'd say that you have the North and the South pretty well represented there. Nice plates.


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## capsoda (May 14, 2009)

Wow Dennis, that Confederate belt plat is a valuable piece of history. Most of the battel sites and camps down here have been picked over by the metal detector gang. There is a redout and encampment here that is untouched. The maps show it in the wrong place but the farmer who owns it is a crochity old turd and wont let me dig or metal detect. His son will when he dies, if I don't die first that is.


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## JGUIS (May 15, 2009)

Those are some nice plates.  Here's some pics, they look like crap, but I've been trying for a half hour and need to sleep now.  Might try again with a tripod later.  Eagles head faces left, has shield on breast, but can't see what's inside it.


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## JGUIS (May 15, 2009)

Another


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## JGUIS (May 15, 2009)

Here's the back, like you can tell.  Button is exactly 2 CM wide


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## Staunton Dan (May 15, 2009)

Looks to be a US eagle button with arrows in left talon. It has an olive branch in the right. Quite common and not worth spending too much time cleaning. The good thing is that you can't hurt the value much whether you clean it or not. As a rule you need to leave brass buttons uncleaned until you know what you have. Then afterwords, proper cleaning techniques should be observed if you still want to proceed, Still a nice find in that you don't find them every day. Here's one that I dug that isn't in real good shape but you get the idea of what it looks like.


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## RedGinger (May 15, 2009)

What do you mean about revolutionary relics, Gunth?  What would be considered one?


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## GuntherHess (May 15, 2009)

http://www.historicalimagebank.com/gallery/main.php/v/album02/album21/album46/


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## tigue710 (May 17, 2009)

Hey Matt, recently dug a button with an eagle encircled by stars, the majority of the dump was pre civil war...  does it ring a bell?


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## GuntherHess (May 17, 2009)

There were LOTS of eagle motif buttons both military and civilian. 
 It could be a lot of things but if i had to guess I would say maybe a federal staff button.
 http://www.relicman.com/buttons/ButtonFedGov.htm

 post a photo


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## tigue710 (May 17, 2009)

its not one of theose shown...  I'll get a pic...


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## GuntherHess (May 17, 2009)

http://www.relicman.com/buttons/ButtonConGovA1Officers.htm#B5431

 This is what you hope it is ...but odds are low[]


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## tigue710 (May 17, 2009)

my heart jumped for a minute...  mine is brass or copper, no gold, the eagle has a shield but no letters in the shilds crest.  The wings are spread open and the the legs are srait out.  It has the arrows on the left and the olive branch on the right...  more stars also, 22 to be exact.  Alabama became the 22nd state in 1819, not sure if this relates to the stars or not...

 it is also pitted with a few small pin prick holes, but still retains all its detail.

 the back says "brothers"  thats all can make out...


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## tigue710 (May 17, 2009)

1


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## tigue710 (May 17, 2009)

2


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## tigue710 (May 17, 2009)

file to large for the non inverted image of the back, this ought to do alone though...


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## cc6pack (May 17, 2009)

Matt

 You have a General Staff Officers button, it does have gilt on it it's under the green stuff. This style button was used from 1832 until 1902. The back is Horstmann Brothers & Co/Phil.

 I'll need a little more info to narrow it down better. BTW the arrows are in the eagles right talon and the olive branch in the left talon, and is facing right.

 How many arrows are in the eagles talon? and the number of stars is critical, there's anywhere from 21 to 30. I know you said 22 but the only button I could find with 22 had Brothers abbreviated as Bro.

 There are 24 variations of Staff button mainly with the number of stars, 3 or 4 arrows, and differences in the shape of the shield, and eagle. Nice pics


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## GuntherHess (May 17, 2009)

Horstmann was one of the biggest button makers in the US.
 Thier backmarks are pretty well documented.
 I think it is close to this one...
 http://www.relicman.com/buttons/imagesbuttons/B5346A.JPG
 http://www.relicman.com/buttons/imagesbuttons/B5346B.JPG
 It may be a post war button depending on what you read.
 I dont think the number of stars is really significant.
 Definately a federal staff button (my lucky first guess[])


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## tigue710 (May 17, 2009)

Thanks matt, the light was not good but the photos came our alright...  All about the Cannon cameras with macro zoom...

 I checked and checked again and there are 22 stars for sure, four arrows, and brothers is spelt out...

 the context the button was found in would date between 1830 and 1850, although being a surface dump there is a chance it was mixed in at a later date... 

 it is very close to the button you found but the arrows are bunch more tightly together, two over two sort of...  less stars of course, the shield is also tigher and I believe the button to be slightly smaller and the dome more rounded...


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## GuntherHess (May 18, 2009)

> the button to be slightly smaller and the dome more rounded


 
 Your is probably a cuff, they tend to be high domed. They are the smallest buttons and probably explains the fewer stars than on the tunic or overcoat buttons.


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## cc6pack (May 18, 2009)

Matt

 All the General Staff buttons are high dome, if you noticed the shield in Gunthers post is pointed at the top of the shield. Yours from what I can see is straight across? This is one of the small differences between manufacturers, different molds etc. Gunthers is listed as GS18 in Alberts book. Horstmann had different back marks as well, some of them are* Horstmann* & Co. Phil/NY, * Horstmann* Sons & Drucker/ New York, *W.H. Horstmann* /Philadelphia, to name some of them. 

 The button should measure about 20mm


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## GuntherHess (May 18, 2009)

You need to keep digging and find the sword belt plate that went with it.


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## CrewelaDeVil (May 18, 2009)

How about this one? I can't find it. Probably post war??   Backmark is HORSTMANN  PHILADELPHIA


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## cc6pack (May 18, 2009)

Pam

 Yours is the style used after 1902 and is referred to as the "Great Seal". You see this design everywhere. It is used as button design hat pin, front of the presidents podium, etc.


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## CrewelaDeVil (May 18, 2009)

Thank you. I found that in a dump in Maine about 3 years ago.


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## tigue710 (May 18, 2009)

no the shield is the same as the one Matt posted excepted the bars are tighter, and the shield slightly smaller...

 any guess as to value?


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## cc6pack (May 18, 2009)

Matt

 It's kinda hard to value it from a pic but if it was mine I don't think I'd take less than $25.00 for it.


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## nerdling (May 23, 2009)

I've heard of people using something called aluminum jelly to clean civil war buttons. I've seen some before and after pictures. It does seem to work well. Although I've never tried it myself. Like was said before with common eagle buttons just use soap and water. They may be common but I sure love finding them.


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