# Sharp pontiled crude black glass bottle.



## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Mar 2, 2021)

I was wondering because i don't know black glass that great,, is there anyone who might know what age bracket this type is from. I got this crude super dark amber black glass. Loads of bubbles. Bottom is wavy and the bottle wobbles like crazy. It has a very sharp pontil on the bottom. Hope you like.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## Harry Pristis (Mar 2, 2021)

*Is it a half-bottle (7.5" - 8" tall)?  Lip finish looks to be about 1850 (my example is a little earlier, I think).







*


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Mar 3, 2021)

Harry Pristis said:


> *Is it a half-bottle (7.5" - 8" tall)?  Lip finish looks to be about 1850 (my example is a little earlier, I think).
> 
> View attachment 220240
> 
> View attachment 220241*


It is 7 ³/⁴" tall. That's Beautiful! Thank you so much Harry Pristis.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## J.R. Collector (Mar 3, 2021)

Nice bottle ROBBYBOBBY64


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## ArmyDigger (Mar 3, 2021)

Sweet bottle love black glass stuff


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## treeguyfred (Mar 3, 2021)

Robby, that is a way cool oldie! Harry gave us some terrific info! My first black glass bottle I got by crawling under the 20" crawl space under my Grandma's 1730's house in Limerock, CT. Way back when I was ten and her house was being renovated. The contractors jacked the whole sprawling added upon house up 20" in order to put a modern foundation under it. That was in 1976. No-one said boo about a skinny long haired rascal crawling on his belly under there for exploring purposes. I was under there for probably 2- 3 hours... getting "stuck" a few times and having to belly back up and renavigate. I found two marbles (there were probably far more than that But, I wasn't really looking for them... didn't even really know back then about antique playing marbles   ) I found a C. Cleminshaw Troy NY squat blobtop applied lip smooth base aqua. And, I found two black glass cylinders with the milky blue improved refired grafite pontil. well, one is a cylinder, one is an ale possibly or stout.
So, where did you get yours?  do you have others? I like the shape of yours, I believe they call that shape a mallet... I don't know if that was industry term or collecting hobbyist term. ... Harry? OPmustard? Leon? Saratogadriver? anyone?
~Fred


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Mar 3, 2021)

treeguyfred said:


> Robby, that is a way cool oldie! Harry gave us some terrific info! My first black glass bottle I got by crawling under the 20" crawl space under my Grandma's 1730's house in Limerock, CT. Way back when I was ten and her house was being renovated. The contractors jacked the whole sprawling added upon house up 20" in order to put a modern foundation under it. That was in 1976. No-one said boo about a skinny long haired rascal crawling on his belly under there for exploring purposes. I was under there for probably 2- 3 hours... getting "stuck" a few times and having to belly back up and renavigate. I found two marbles (there were probably far more than that But, I wasn't really looking for them... didn't even really know back then about antique playing marbles   ) I found a C. Cleminshaw Troy NY squat blobtop applied lip smooth base aqua. And, I found two black glass cylinders with the milky blue improved refired grafite pontil. well, one is a cylinder, one is an ale possibly or stout.
> So, where did you get yours?  do you have others? I like the shape of yours, I believe they call that shape a mallet... I don't know if that was industry term or collecting hobbyist term. ... Harry? OPmustard? Leon? Saratogadriver? anyone?
> ~Fred


That explains alot! Lol! Where would you be without those first finds. I love your story. Typical of the times no doubt. I remember making a ramp with boards and cinderblock. We used to jump everything including garbage cans and friends. We never got even so much as a warning. No helmets, elbowed or kneepads. As long as we wanted and didn't kill ourselves anything was game. Even light parachuting off the garage with my bed sheet. I could go on for hour about the crazy things I did. Thanks for the memories.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## Harry Pristis (Mar 3, 2021)

treeguyfred said:


> And, I found two black glass cylinders with the milky blue improved refired grafite pontil. well, one is a cylinder, one is an ale possibly or stout.
> So, where did you get yours? do you have others? I like the shape of yours, I believe they call that shape a mallet... I don't know if that was industry term or collecting hobbyist term. ... Harry? OPmustard? Leon? Saratogadriver? anyone?
> ~Fred



*What an opportunity to recover some early bottles!

Here are some examples which address your questions:







The milky color is called glassgall.  It is a chemical transferred to the bottle from the pontil rod.  The source is crushed clinkers from the furnace which is used as a separator layer on the pontil rod (IOW, a "sand" pontil).







 *


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## treeguyfred (Mar 3, 2021)

Thank you so much Harry! wow what a wealth of pertinent information! I'm 55 and made a new wrinkle in the wet, smoked grey matter today! so, to clarify... "improved, refired, graphite pontil" is erroneous info? I'm trying to clarify and/or correct my bottle knowledge.   
~Fred


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## treeguyfred (Mar 3, 2021)

So, I rummaged around, but it wasn't too hard to find them. I dusted them off and snapped some pics of my first pontiled bottles. And black glass no less.... these set my interest for quite a few years, almost exclusively on bottles. 
LOL... Until, while hunting for bottles..... I saw and found antique insulators! (but that's a completely different story)
~Fred


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## willong (Mar 3, 2021)

ArmyDigger said:


> Sweet bottle love black glass stuff



Ditto on the love of black glass. One of my first decent dump finds, site of a late 19th C. sawmill, contained a fair amount of black glass. For a new digger in 1970 in western Washington State, where there are very few locations that harbored early settlements (our oldest incorporated town only dates to 1851), all black glass bottles appeared ancient to me at the time. That the site was not previously dug--I found several bottles lying on the grassy surface of what had once been the millpond bottom--contributes to my fond memories.

On a different topic, I notice your vintage photo avatar. I am the grandson of a Great War veteran, and the son and nephew of several WW2 vets. My father was a heavy machine gunner, 605 MOS, in 163rd Engineer (C) Battalion from shortly after its formation through to his discharge the day after Christmas, 1945. It was the 163rd who blew up the Nazi eagle and swastika emblem at Nuremberg, a bit of historical film that frequently features in WW2 documentaries.

Do you happen to participate in any of the history of war forums on Quora?


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## Harry Pristis (Mar 3, 2021)

treeguyfred said:


> Thank you so much Harry! wow what a wealth of pertinent information! I'm 55 and made a new wrinkle in the wet, smoked grey matter today! so, to clarify... "improved, refired, graphite pontil" is erroneous info? I'm trying to clarify and/or correct my bottle knowledge.
> ~Fred



*I'm not sure your black bottle finds are pontil-scarred.  Do they have adherent grit that shreds a fingernail?  They appear to be british ale or stout bottles from the mid-1800s.

An "improved pontil" is a bare iron pontil which left a black (sometimes reddish) patch on the bottle base.  These black patches were mistakenly identified by some collectors as "graphite pontils."  

Pontil scars were not fire polished.  Production was the goal, and an extra step (fire polishing) would slow production, not to mention the "wasters" lost to distortion of the bottle bottoms in the polishing.

I don't have a pic of a mid-century bottle, but here is a somewhat earlier version of your stout bottles.




*


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Mar 3, 2021)

Love all your black glass bottle. Harry amazing wealth of knowledge as always. Thanks Fred, I love when you personalize/add to a thread. Great stuff everyone. 
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## ArmyDigger (Mar 4, 2021)

willong said:


> Ditto on the love of black glass. One of my first decent dump finds, site of a late 19th C. sawmill, contained a fair amount of black glass. For a new digger in 1970 in western Washington State, where there are very few locations that harbored early settlements (our oldest incorporated town only dates to 1851), all black glass bottles appeared ancient to me at the time. That the site was not previously dug--I found several bottles lying on the grassy surface of what had once been the millpond bottom--contributes to my fond memories.
> 
> On a different topic, I notice your vintage photo avatar. I am the grandson of a Great War veteran, and the son and nephew of several WW2 vets. My father was a heavy machine gunner, 605 MOS, in 163rd Engineer (C) Battalion from shortly after its formation through to his discharge the day after Christmas, 1945. It was the 163rd who blew up the Nazi eagle and swastika emblem at Nuremberg, a bit of historical film that frequently features in WW2 documentaries.
> 
> Do you happen to participate in any of the history of war forums on Quora?


thats cool to know i mainly have vietnam and more recent war veterans including one who served on the first us nuclear submarine. My great grandfather however served in the 8th air force 91st bomb group 324th bomb squadron alongside the famous Memphis Belle. he was what they called an old dog because he served with the unit from its formation as a unit until the end of the war. Do to them suffering some of the highest casualties of an bomber unit and more than half of the the us armys ground force divisions he lost a lot of friends and comrades. No I do not participate of quora as my main specialty is the epuipment so the firearms, artillery, tanks, vehicles, and planes. you also interested in military history.


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## willong (Mar 5, 2021)

ArmyDigger said:


> thats cool to know i mainly have vietnam and more recent war veterans including one who served on the first us nuclear submarine. My great grandfather however served in the 8th air force 91st bomb group 324th bomb squadron alongside the famous Memphis Belle. he was what they called an old dog because he served with the unit from its formation as a unit until the end of the war. Do to them suffering some of the highest casualties of an bomber unit and more than half of the the us armys ground force divisions he lost a lot of friends and comrades. No I do not participate of quora as my main specialty is the epuipment so the firearms, artillery, tanks, vehicles, and planes. you also interested in military history.



I always relished conversations with my father about his wartime experiences, and I enjoyed viewing and handling the souvenirs and war trophies that he retained (several other pieces, including one of significant historical interest, were stolen before Dad was discharged--he'd shipped them home from European theater). However, I was not enough of a military buff to realize that I should record names, dates, battles and locations until it was too late.

My father saw a lot of action and was remarkably open and candid in discussing his experiences and observations. Having grown up in his presence, I did not realize how unusual he was in his candor until after he was gone. Dad's tone and demeanor would indicate his mood; but I never witnessed him choke up, cry or refuse to discuss a topic.

There is considerable discussion and debating on military equipment topics on Quora. I can't usually contribute much to those topics as I am not enthusiastic enough to research, learn and remember details of nomenclature, model variants and etc. Occasionally, I will contribute a general observation resulting from my father's experience. For instance, Dad witnessed a very unique tank duel in Bitche France, in which an inferiorly armed and armored American tank crew defeated a superior German tank by using ingenious tactics. (The German tank crew met a horrible end, but I can't tell you which tank model they burned within.) "Field expediency" and innovation were favorite topics of my father, something he was proud to think contributed to American victory.

I bought a property in Montana from an 8th AAF veteran. I rented it back to him for years, but never had a long conversation about the war--I was more interested in the extraordinary elk rack that sat in a corner of his shop. I do know that Bub survived the required number of missions (25?) to go home--he did not enter the war late.

Well, I'd best close this since it is well off the antique bottle topic. Hope other members don't mind too much.


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## Nickneff (Mar 5, 2021)

ROBBYBOBBY64 said:


> I was wondering because i don't know black glass that great,, is there anyone who might know what age bracket this type is from. I got this crude super dark amber black glass. Loads of bubbles. Bottom is wavy and the bottle wobbles like crazy. It has a very sharp pontil on the bottom. Hope you like.
> ROBBYBOBBY64.


I would have to say late 17 to early 1800 very crude plus it's very cool I like it I would love to dig some stuff like that thanks for showing


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Mar 5, 2021)

ArmyDigger said:


> Sweet bottle love black glass stuff


Maybe a half bottle, but I love it whole Heartedly. 
ROBBYBOBBY64


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Mar 5, 2021)

Nickneff said:


> I would have to say late 17 to early 1800 very crude plus it's very cool I like it I would love to dig some stuff like that thanks for showing


Harry said 1850's actually.  I have no idea, but he said it is a half bottle.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## Mjbottle (Mar 5, 2021)

willong said:


> I always relished conversations with my father about his wartime experiences, and I enjoyed viewing and handling the souvenirs and war trophies that he retained (several other pieces, including one of significant historical interest, were stolen before Dad was discharged--he'd shipped them home from European theater). However, I was not enough of a military buff to realize that I should record names, dates, battles and locations until it was too late.
> 
> My father saw a lot of action and was remarkably open and candid in discussing his experiences and observations. Having grown up in his presence, I did not realize how unusual he was in his candor until after he was gone. Dad's tone and demeanor would indicate his mood; but I never witnessed him choke up, cry or refuse to discuss a topic.
> 
> ...


Dont mind at all, thank you for sharing your stories.


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## treeguyfred (Mar 6, 2021)

Harry Pristis said:


> Do they have adherent grit that shreds a fingernail?


Yes Harry, they do have tiny sharp little bits of glass and gritty nail catchers.
Thank you for information!
~Fred


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Mar 6, 2021)

treeguyfred said:


> Yes Harry, they do have tiny sharp little bits of glass and gritty nail catchers.
> Thank you for information!
> ~Fred


Those pontils can be nasty! Never been cut yet. 
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## relic rescuer (Mar 10, 2021)

ROBBYBOBBY64 said:


> I was wondering because i don't know black glass that great,, is there anyone who might know what age bracket this type is from. I got this crude super dark amber black glass. Loads of bubbles. Bottom is wavy and the bottle wobbles like crazy. It has a very sharp pontil on the bottom. Hope you like.
> ROBBYBOBBY64.


I found the bottom of a bottle like that, but I think it was bigger, in the middle of a rotting stump, while metal detecting. Can't find it ATM tho...It was in an area that had a CW era fort, and was probably used for target practice. I wish I could have found the rest of it.


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## LalaGirl (Mar 12, 2021)

willong said:


> Ditto on the love of black glass. One of my first decent dump finds, site of a late 19th C. sawmill, contained a fair amount of black glass. For a new digger in 1970 in western Washington State, where there are very few locations that harbored early settlements (our oldest incorporated town only dates to 1851), all black glass bottles appeared ancient to me at the time. That the site was not previously dug--I found several bottles lying on the grassy surface of what had once been the millpond bottom--contributes to my fond memories.
> 
> On a different topic, I notice your vintage photo avatar. I am the grandson of a Great War veteran, and the son and nephew of several WW2 vets. My father was a heavy machine gunner, 605 MOS, in 163rd Engineer (C) Battalion from shortly after its formation through to his discharge the day after Christmas, 1945. It was the 163rd who blew up the Nazi eagle and swastika emblem at Nuremberg, a bit of historical film that frequently features in WW2 documentaries.
> 
> Do you happen to participate in any of the history of war forums on Quora?


I, too, had a grandfather in the Great War, and an uncle and my father in WWII.
Uncle was at the Bulge and Omaha Beach.


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## willong (Mar 16, 2021)

LalaGirl said:


> I, too, had a grandfather in the Great War, and an uncle and my father in WWII.
> Uncle was at the Bulge and Omaha Beach.


Thanks for sharing.

My father landed at Utah. My best recollection of his war tales is that he landed on D+2. I distinctly remember him commenting upon the bodies still rolling in the waves and the retrieval process on-going when he landed. The only (partial and incomplete) unit histories that I have so far been able to retrieve online state that the 163 Engineer (Combat) Battalion landed on D+20. However, those histories focused on other companies of the battalion, the entirety of which were special troops, who were often seperated and served where and when needed, attached to other organizations. Dad definitely saw action during the Battle of The Bulge, serving in Alsace Lorraine. Nearer the end of the war in Europe, Dad's C Company were attached to the troops liberating Dachau Concentration camp.

I learned of incidents such as the carnage at St. Lo, collaborative women having their heads shaved in reprisal by their countrymen after the liberation of France, freezing troops' battling the weather as much as the Nazis during the Bulge, the Malmedy Massacre, German civilians in the vicinity of Dachau being forced to view, and help bury, the bodies of Dachau's atrocities and similar historical snippets in conversations with my father long before I learned any of it in school or viewed historical films and videos.


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## relic rescuer (Mar 17, 2021)

relic rescuer said:


> I found the bottom of a bottle like that, but I think it was bigger, in the middle of a rotting stump, while metal detecting. Can't find it ATM tho...It was in an area that had a CW era fort, and was probably used for target practice. I wish I could have found the rest of it.


I think someone threw that away too, dammit...


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