# Two bottles--one is out of my league. Help?



## Robby Raccoon (Aug 9, 2014)

Okay, first off I'll start with this odd violin one. At where I volunteer, I found three boxes of bottles sitting outside by the storage house, and so, as a bottle collector, I could not resist  looking through them. I brought out the owner of the animal sanctuary to ask her about buying one and to show her what was 'of interest' and what 'probably should be on a bottle tree.' 
You'll see the one I wanted to purchase (8 years of volunteering, if I try to buy a book or bottle or kerosene lamp they just make me take it for free. Never do I win when telling them I want to _buy_ it. Grrr.) 
Anyway, I pointed this oddity out to her and said that perhaps she should take it in to research it. I am thinking it's like a museum gift shop sort of thing, but had alerted her that if it is it's a really nice fake, and might actually be something real. It had a $3 sticker on it for their anual--this year they haven't done it-- yard sale. She had no interest in it--I hold half interest as I don't collect unembossed figural stuff-- and told me to take them for free. 
Now here I am, wondering if this is a reproduction sort of thing or what. It's an amber violin, heavier coloring on the neck and strings. The base is unembossed-- seam ends before that octagonal thing to keep it  steady-- there are numerous bubbles (the photos of it are when wet, it had cobwebs in it) in it and the neck is kind of bulbous as you'll see. Many vertical striations till what is the mouth, where it shows signs of being hand-tooled, but the mouth is.... It doesn't taper off, has no collar-- was it broken and then cut off, soon after being smoothed down forming this new mouth? The neck seems a bit odd in how it meets the body, too. 
Was it for wine? I didn't see it in my book on Bitters. Is it old, or a fake? Does anyone know what decade it was made, what company made it, and does it hold any value? Why is the mouth this way? I'll make several posts on images.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 9, 2014)

Here are more images. The 'f' holes are debossed, and the  'strings' and such are embossed-- I find it a little more unique. One seam is on the side of the right (when looking at front of bottle) back side, and the left seam is on the front left. The neck has a kind of 'V' where it meets the body--on both front and back. 
Mouth, base, wacko neck--in order.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 9, 2014)

If nothing else, it has nice details to make a nice display piece. There is some sort of hanger that fits it, so it will hang on my wall--great idea, as I'm low on space and this one takes up 2 to 3 bottles' worth of space.  Side (where it indents in,) base (slightly moved to the side to show it,) neck (where it meets the body) in that order.


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## LC (Aug 9, 2014)

I can't tell if it is an old one or not from looking at the pics , Always did like those violin bottles , had quite a collection of them years ago , many of mine were missing the hanger  but still thought they were great collectables . The price was right .


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 9, 2014)

This bottle I only have a question on it's mouth but will show the whole thing. At first, when I picked it up, I saw it as a crown top. Looking closer, I saw the--call it 'double collar'?-- and then that it is hand tooled. It was the one I went to ask her about buying (I wanted it for the mouth) and it had a dollar marked as it's price-- I explained to her some on bottles, like what to look for, showing her this example and a few ABMs, flared lip medicines... I then realized it is similar to my 'Baltimore Loop Seal' pop bottle in how it has a ledge on the inside for some sort of stopper perhaps?? I am thinking T.O.C. on this bottle. It has heavy seams till it nears the bottom collar, and is front embossed, "HALFORD" horizontally. Vertically, it says, "LEICESTERSHIRE" Back horizontal embossing, "HALFORD" and veritcally, "SAUCE" The base is pitted--from when it formed-- smoothish, but unmarked. It is light aqua. Again: I just want to know why the mouth has two collars, a crown top, and  what looks to be a stopper closure. 

We have one in blue with a seam going up to the lip, L. C., so it's not old. This one is hand-tooled, which makes me wonder. They had a couple others made by Owens-Illinois. Seam going up the finish, too. One looked more like a Cello, and had a label at one point.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 9, 2014)

More images. Forgive me for any bad close-ups. I seem to have a shaking issue today. It happens often.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 9, 2014)

I copied and pasted this off of  Sha.Org on a food-bottle section. For a more proper citation, you Click Here so no one can say I didn't give credit. 
"One example (of dozens possible) of a competitor to L&P was the product contained in the bottle to the left which is identical in form to the L&P bottles.  It is embossed horizontally on the shoulder with _HALFORD_ - _HALFORD_, on the front vertically with _LEICESTERSHIRE_ and on the back vertically with _SAUCE_.  (Images off of eBay©.)   These bottles contained _Halford's Table Sauce_ which was advertised in 1880 as follows:  “_The Most Perfect Relish of the Day.  An absolute Remedy for Dyspepsia.  Invaluable to all Good Cooks.  A Nutritious Combination for Children.  Invaluable for Soups, Hashes, Cold Meats, and Entrées"_ (advertisement found on internet).  Even meat sauce claimed medicinal properties in the 19th century!  This bottle has a crudely applied club sauce style finish, was blown in a post-bottom mold, and likely had no evidence of mold air venting - all features supporting a manufacturing date of about 1865 to 1885.  These bottles were likely manufactured in England during the noted period as American and English bottle making technology at that time was roughly on a par with each other (Zumwalt 1980; empirical observations)."
The closure is a glass-and-cork or "shell-cork." It explains the ledge. 
1890-ish to 1900-ish? All my research seem accurate to you?


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## sunrunner (Aug 9, 2014)

these bottle shoed not be to expensive .  the violin looks to be a repo from the 1950s the sauce bottle has a hand tooled lip with a few extra rings on the nick . it had a glass stopper.


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## MichaelFla (Aug 10, 2014)

The violin bottles of this type were made from the 20s into the 70s, with the most heavy production taking place in the 30s. They were made as decorations for the home by Clevinger Brothers, Dell Glass, Maryland Glass, Pairpoint, and a company in Japan. They are available in two sizes and are quite collectable.


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## PASodas (Aug 10, 2014)

My mother once collected these as they come in a variety of colors and could be picked up for $10. She had one in cobalt with partial contents and a label for "hand lotion".  I've seen them in shades of amber, green and blue.  Banjo shapes are also available.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 10, 2014)

I've seen many that have a seam up the lip. But this one looks hand-tooled and is different than the others.


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## MichaelFla (Aug 10, 2014)

Most of the American made ones have seams that stop before the lip, and some even have pontils. The main exception to this in the American made bottles is the product bottles, which were sold containing some type of product including liquor or hand lotion.The French and Czech violin bottles, as well as the Definitive violin bottles (which closely resemble the French and Czech versions but have no markings), generally have the seam that continues through the lip.Edit: Finally found the website that describes them: Violin Bottles, Then choose 'Information on Viobots' on the left side.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 10, 2014)

Alright, super. Thanks for the cite, and thanks everyone for your help. []


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## cowseatmaize (Aug 10, 2014)

Huh, I thought I posted here. Anyhoo I marked Michael as best answer in the first but meant to add that Bardstown was a whiskey that used them and in nip size so they were used a lot.Also, koodo's for volunteering anywhere at the age of 10. Nowadays that's seems so rare and I thought it was a lost concept of kids back about the 80's or 90's.. (clapping hands emoticon)


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 11, 2014)

I started at age 9. I'm still 17 for about two months. Thanks for the compliment.  Here are some of my wolfy friends there.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 11, 2014)

There are other animals there too. I mostly volunteer with the wolves, wolf-dogs, and feral dogs. You can click here to learn more on them.


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## sunrunner (Aug 11, 2014)

very good.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 11, 2014)

They are---but the fox still won't let me pet him. Just feed him. And the final photo is of Floppy, who doesn't like me but I still love him. He's just a grumpy dog.


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## reach44 (Aug 14, 2014)

I love foxes!  Thanks for sharing those pics.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 15, 2014)

No problem. It gives you an insight into Howling Timbers Animal Sanctuary. It's open to come visit, and donations are always appreciated to keep it running.


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## wmccubb (Aug 15, 2014)

This looks similar to your bottle. Found this magazine while scanning ebay.http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bottles-and-Extras-1990-AUG-England-Bottles-Bitters-Medicine-Ink-Fruit-Jars-/111421639656?pt=Magazines&hash=item19f13f4be8


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 15, 2014)

I think that is mine. Thanks for showing me!


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## MichaelFla (Aug 15, 2014)

Does your viobot have the musical score on the back side? The one in the picture appears to, but I was thinking yours didn't have it, which would indicate a different manufacturer.


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## Robby Raccoon (Aug 16, 2014)

Musical score? Mine is plain on the back. Just bubbles.


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