# PACIFIC COAST GLASS WORKS/COMPANY  ~  SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA  ~ CONFUSING MAKERS MARKS



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

This is a spin-off from member Andy Volkerts thread I participated in regarding his Haywards Soda Works deco bottle. During the course of that discussion it was disclosed that Andy's bottle was made by the Pacific Coast Glass Works of San Francisco and marked with a PC in a Triangle. In this new discussion I am going to attempt to make sense of their various marks and see if I can attribute appropriate dates to their numerous marks.                                             For starters, here's the link to Andy's thread ...                       https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/new-soda-bottle-find-m685079.aspx                                                                   ~ * ~ Which brings us to this list of the various marks used by the Pacific Coast Glass Works/Company so as to familiarize yourself with the task that lay before me. Here's the link where this list can be found ...                                                           Scroll to P/C                                  http://www.glassbottlemarks.com/bottlemarks-4/                                                         [ul][*]P/C in duo-segmented parallelogram ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California (1925-1930). This mark was introduced in 1919, and used on ware until about 1930. Source on 1919 date: Peterson (1968:49).[*]P/C in a square ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California (1925-1930). This mark was used possibly as early as 1919, but was definitely in use by 1925. See other “P.C.” entries.[*]P C in a triangle ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, CA (1925-1930). Mark was first used in either 1919 or 1925.[*]P.C ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and it’s successor Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, CA (1925-1930). The PC mark probably dates from either 1919, or 1925, and on up to 1930.[*]P.C.G.W ... Pacific Coast Glass Works, San Francisco, CA (1902-1925). See “P.C.” marks.[/ul] *( To be continued )*


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## andy volkerts (Nov 27, 2015)

Hello Bob. I have since found my issue of Early Glassworks of California by Warren Friedrich, (I had misshelved it in the many bookcases we have in the house, and I have been looking for it for several days) I will check and see if warren has any marks or dates for their marks, as it is pretty comprehensive in scope..........Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

Andy 10-4 / Thanks  ... I'm looking forward to see what your book has to say.


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## andy volkerts (Nov 27, 2015)

Disapointing to say the least, Warren doesn't mention any history newer than 1900, and that was the end of the San Francisco and pacific glassworks, no mention of the Pacific coast glassworks at all, to new.....Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Andy Thanks for checking anyway. I'm not sure either what I'm going to come up with. This might prove to be my most challenging research project ever attempted - lots of confusing and contradictory information to sort through. Based on the makers marks websites I'm familiar with, they all show the Pacific Coast Glass Works in San Francisco with a starting date of 1902. With that said, I'm trying to make sense of this article that mentions Pacific Coast Glass works and a horrible accident that occurred on Thanksgiving day in November of *1900*. I have several more articles I intend to post about this tragic event and welcome comments in the hope of trying to determine exactly which glass factory it occurred at. From ... The Oxnard Courier ~ Oxnard, California ~ December 1, 1900 [attachment=Pacific Coast Glas...tle (860x1050).jpg] [attachment=Pacific Coast Glas...900 (536x1050).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Please read these articles about the 1900 Thanksgiving day tragedy to familiarize yourselves with the event and where it occurred ...   
Article w/Pictures
http://www.sfweekly.com/sanfrancisco/sudden-death-boys-fell-to-their-doom-in-sfs-forgotten-disaster/Content?oid=2186046

Article w/Pictures
https://medium.com/@stanfordmag/the-big-game-disaster-1900-e34db0c3f646#.um35k8ofe

[attachment=Pacific Coast Glas...29, 1900 Photo.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

And there's this from a 1910 San Francisco directory which clearly shows that the Illinois-Pacific Glass Company and the Pacific Coast Glass Company were two different companies located at two different locations. For future reference please make note of the addresses ...                                     Illinois-Pacific Glass Co. @ Fifteenth & Folsom                                       Pacific Coast Glass Co. @ Seventh & Irwin                                  [attachment=Pacific Coast Glas... 7th and Irwin.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

For those who might be confused by this initial entry, I'm trying to determine exactly what glass factory the 1900 accident occurred at. The most confusing part for me is with the names and the inclusion of the word "Coast" in some of the articles and the lack of the word "Coast" in others. In other words, I trying to distinguish the difference between ...                                                   Pacific Glass Works                                                            and ...                                              Pacific Coast Glass Works  If you read the articles I posted links to, you probably noticed the following where they said ...  
First Article ...

"... the nearly completed San Francisco and Pacific Glass Works, just across the street from the ballpark. The plant occupied an entire block between Folsom and Harrison on 15th Street, and was slated to commence full production the following Monday."

Second Article ...

"The final Thanksgiving game in San Francisco was to be held in the heart of the Mission District, then a largely working-class neighborhood dense with Irish and German families, and home to a new industrial site, the San Francisco and Pacific Glass Works, which loomed over the field’s north side."

                            Which brings us to this newspaper article from ...

               The Evening Sentinel ~ Santa Cruz, California ~ December 1, 1900

                                                  Where it says ...

                         "Pacific Glass Works on Fifteen Street, near Folsom"

[attachment=Pacific Glass Work...tle (1050x240).jpg]

[attachment=Pacific Glass Work...(2) (358x1050).jpg]

[attachment=Pacific Glass Work...(3) (345x1050).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Now that everyone is up to speed and have seen the numerous addresses for the glass factory accident as having occurred at ...                                                     *"Fifteenth & Folsom"* ... please show me a single reference among everything I've already posted where it even once mentions the name "*Illinois*" as in the "*Illinois-Pacific Glass*"                         [attachment=Pacific Coast Glas... 7th and Irwin.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Now for the fun part!           This link is to the most comprehensive bottle website I'm aware of and is titled ... *                   Historical Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website* https://sha.org/bottle/makersmarks.htm          It was created by Bill Lindsey (Retired) but still maintained as of September, 2015 The link opens to a page (scroll down) where you will find an alphabetical listing with a title of ...                                        *Makers Markings Logo Tables* Click on the 'I' listings for every variation of "Illinois-Pacific Glass" and also on the 'P' listings for every variation of "Pacific Coast Glass" and see if you can find a single makers mark that will account for the glass factory in San Francisco where the accident occurred in *1900*. Unless I'm missing something, the closest date I can find for either company is 1902. But if 1902 is the earliest date, then how do we explain the well documented event that occurred in 1900?                                                 ( To be continued )


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

I hope you are taking notes, because I'm the one researching and writing this and I'm getting a little confused myself. But that's okay, we'll figure it out eventually. []  According to this newspaper article, it was the *Pacific Glass Works *who purchased the property near Fifteenth and Folsom streets to build a glass factory. If you read any of the previous articles about the November 29, 1900 roof accident you probably noticed where they said the plant was just recently completed and ready to begin production in about a week. So it appears that most if not all of the articles include various (confusing) typos as to who actually operated the factory. If this account is accurate, as I believe it to be, then we now know it was the Pacific Glass Works roof that collapsed on Thanksgiving day on November 29, 1900. However, this isn't the end of the story. Go back to the Makers Marks listings and you will see where it shows the Pacific Glass Works as being in operation between 1862 and 1875. But if that's the case, then how do we explain this article about the company from ...                              The San Francisco Chronicle ~ *June 2, **1900* With my main point of emphasis being, we now have a date of 1900, which is two years earlier than the makers marks websites attribute to these various companies. Notice in the article that the property was basically bare land at the time of the 1900 purchase.                                                    ( To be continued ) [attachment=Pacific Glass Work...itle (1050x80).jpg] [attachment=Pacific Glass Work...900 (1050x863).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Remember where I just said ... "However, this isn't the end of the story. Go back to the Makers Marks listings and you will see where it shows the Pacific Glass Works as being in operation between 1862 and 1875." Well, as near as I can determine, it wasn't the Pacific Glass Works that was in operation between 1862 and 1875, but was ...                                           *The San Francisco Glass Works*                                                        Article from ...                  The Santa Cruz Sentinel ~ Santa Cruz, California ~ *August 5, 1865* ( Of the numerous companies mentioned thus far, the San Francisco Glass Works is the only one I can find from the mid 1800s )  [attachment=San Francisco Glas...tle (1050x812).jpg] [attachment=San Francisco Glas...865 (650x1050).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Meanwhile, back at the makers mark website(s), we find ...                                 San Francisco Glass Works = Circa 1860s-1870s                                                  SFGW = 1868-1876                                                SF&PGW = 1876-1902                    S.F.& P.G.W ... San Francisco and Pacific Glass Works (1876-c.1901) I'm not sure which mark they were using in 1865, but they were definitely in operation at that time


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Advanced reading about the San Francisco Glass Works ...                               https://sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/Baker&Cutting.pdf      ( I'm still trying to make sense of it myself, so don't feel bad if its confusing at first glance )


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 28, 2015)

Its time for a picture of a soda bottle - after all, this is soda pop thread, right?  []       Based on what we've seen so far, does anyone care to take a stab at this bottle's date?                     [attachment=PCGW Coke Bottle 002 (480x640).jpg] [attachment=PCGW Coke Bottle 001 (640x480).jpg]


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## Nevadabottles (Nov 28, 2015)

I'm guessing 1900's


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## andy volkerts (Nov 29, 2015)

Here goes some timelines and addys of the san Francisco glass companies from .....1859-1860San Francisco Glass Works ( Baker and Cutting) beale sts and howard sts........1862San Francisco Glass factory( g.w. Post) Greenwich and Powell sts.........1863-64Pacific Glass Co. (Hobbs, Gray, Hannsman, Taylor, etc) Iowa and Mariposa sts......1865-66Pacific Glass Works (Saulsbury, Kirk, & Mordecai) Iowa and Mariposa sts........1865-66San Francisco Flint Glass Works ( c. Newman & P. Brannan) corner Ritch & Townsend sts........1866-68San Francisco Glass Works ( newman &  brannan) Townsend st, between 3rd and 4th sts.........1866-1874Pacific Glass Works ( Bennett & Co) Iowa & Mariposa sts.........1870-72San Francisco Glass Works ( C. Newman & C. Duval) King st, Foot of 4th.......1872-75San Francisco Glass Works (Carlton Newman Proprietor) King st and Fourth...........1875Pacific Glass Works ( John Taylor & R. Pattridge) Iowa and Mariposa sts..........1875-1886S.F. & Pacific Glass Works ( c. Newman & Co.) King st and foot of 4th st.......... 1866-1897S.F. & Pacific Glass Works (C. Newman & family) 7th and Townsend sts..........1898-99S. F. Pacific Glass Works ( Newman family & Abramson * Heunisch. 7th and Townsend sts.


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## andy volkerts (Nov 29, 2015)

Several of us central Valley bottle diggers have had the luck to dig at the sites on 7th and Townsend sts. and have gotten a lot of great bottles out of the ground. I have had the further luck of digging a glass recycler who had set up on King st near 2nd st, and at another recycler at Townsend near 3rd...........Sadly out here those days are forever gone, but I can look back fondly at them.......Andy


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 29, 2015)

andy volkerts said:
			
		

> Disapointing to say the least, Warren doesn't mention any history newer than 1900, and that was the end of the San Francisco and pacific glassworks, no mention of the Pacific coast glassworks at all, to new.....Andy


I'm pretty shocked by that. [8|] Maybe too many records went up in flame in '06?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

andy volkerts said:
			
		

> 1859-1860 - San Francisco Glass Works (Baker and Cutting) Beale sts and Howard sts.1862 - San Francisco Glass Factory (G.W. Post) Greenwich and Powell sts.1863-64 - Pacific Glass Co. (Hobbs, Gray, Hannsman, Taylor, etc) Iowa and Mariposa sts.1865-66 - Pacific Glass Works (Saulsbury, Kirk, & Mordecai) Iowa and Mariposa sts.1865-66 - San Francisco Flint Glass Works (C. Newman & P. Brannan) corner Ritch & Townsend sts.1866-68 - San Francisco Glass Works ( Newman &  Brannan) Townsend St., between 3rd and 4th sts.1866-1874 - Pacific Glass Works ( Bennett & Co) Iowa & Mariposa sts.1870-72 - San Francisco Glass Works ( C. Newman & C. Duval) King St., Foot of 4th.1872-75 - San Francisco Glass Works (Carlton Newman Proprietor) King St. and Fourth.1875 - Pacific Glass Works ( John Taylor & R. Pattridge) Iowa and Mariposa sts.1875-1886 - S.F. & Pacific Glass Works (C. Newman & Co.) King St. and foot of 4th st.1866-1897 - S.F. & Pacific Glass Works (C. Newman & family) 7th and Townsend sts.1898-99 - S. F. Pacific Glass Works (Newman family & Abramson - Heunisch) 7th and Townsend sts.



 Andy Thanks a million - very helpful. I edited your list in a timeline format to make it a little easier to see the transitions. Let me study it for awhile and I'll be back.


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 29, 2015)

Whoa, weird stuff just happened. Not nearly the info in this thread was there when I posted and my post doesn't/didn't show in "latest posts".


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 29, 2015)

Nope, nothing for 7 hours in latest posts. I think it may be happening.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

One note of interest is that the glass factory roof accident occurred exactly 115 years ago today.                                     November 29, 1900  ~  November 29, 2015                    ( This photo was taken just minutes before the accident occurred ) [attachment=Pacific Coast Glas...ember 29, 1900.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

Nevadabottles said:
			
		

> I'm guessing 1900's



John : Thanks for participating.            When you take into account the findings of fairly reliable sources, such as ... 1.  The PCGW (Pacific Coast Glass Works) mark was used between 1902 and 19202.  Shoulder script Coca Cola bottles generally range between about 1910 and 1920 ... the best I can come up with to date my Coca Cola bottle is *Circa 1915*, which is right in the middle of 1910 and 1920. Although patented in 1915, the first Hobbleskirt bottles were not issued until 1917.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

This revised timeline may not be 100% accurate, but based on currently available information it should be close. Notice I added and highlighted the 1900 date where the roof accident occurred. Also notice the Fifteenth & Folsom Street address does not appear prior to 1900. I'm thinking the new plant where the roof accident occurred was called the Pacific Glass Works, but I need to do some double-checking to be certain.                                               (Subject to revision)  1859-1860 - San Francisco Glass Works (Baker and Cutting) Beale sts and Howard sts.
1862 - San Francisco Glass Factory (G.W. Post) Greenwich and Powell sts.
1863-64 - Pacific Glass Co. (Hobbs, Gray, Hannsman, Taylor, etc) Iowa and Mariposa sts.
1865-66 - Pacific Glass Works (Saulsbury, Kirk, & Mordecai) Iowa and Mariposa sts.
1865-66 - San Francisco Flint Glass Works (C. Newman & P. Brannan) corner Ritch & Townsend sts.
1866-68 - San Francisco Glass Works ( Newman &  Brannan) Townsend St., between 3rd and 4th sts.
1866-1874 - Pacific Glass Works ( Bennett & Co) Iowa & Mariposa sts.
1870-72 - San Francisco Glass Works ( C. Newman & C. Duval) King St., Foot of 4th.
1872-75 - San Francisco Glass Works (Carlton Newman Proprietor) King St. And Fourth.
1875 - Pacific Glass Works ( John Taylor & R. Pattridge) Iowa and Mariposa sts.
1875-1886 - S.F. & Pacific Glass Works (C. Newman & Co.) King St. And foot of 4th St.
1866-1897 - S.F. & Pacific Glass Works (C. Newman & family) 7th and Townsend sts.
1898-99 - S. F. Pacific Glass Works (Newman family & Abramson - Heunisch) 7th and Townsend
sts.

*1900- Pacific Glass Works? - Fifteenth Street near Folsom Street - Site of roof accident.*

1902-1920 - Pacific Coast Glass Works, San Francisco, CA. P.C.G.W. Mark.
1902-1925 - Pacific Coast Glass Works P/C in duo-segmented parallelogram
1925-1930 - Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California. P/C in a square. This mark was used possibly as early as 1919, but was definitely in use by 1925.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

The different addresses had me confused, but by studying various resources, including newspaper articles, Google Earth, etc; I was able to determine the 15th & Folsom location is about two miles southwest of the 7th & Townsend location and that the "new" factory at 15th & Folsom was almost ready to begin production when the roof accident occurred on November 29, 1900. As to the name of the company at the time, it was called ... *                                   The San Francisco & Pacific Glass Works* I do not know what became of the old factory at 7th & Townsend, but it appears they abandoned it and relocated everything to the new factory at 15th & Folsom. Hence, this revised timeline ...                                                             ~ * ~ 
1859-1860 - San Francisco Glass Works (Baker and Cutting) Beale sts and Howard sts.
1862 - San Francisco Glass Factory (G.W. Post) Greenwich and Powell sts.
1863-64 - Pacific Glass Co. (Hobbs, Gray, Hannsman, Taylor, etc) Iowa and Mariposa sts.
1865-66 - Pacific Glass Works (Saulsbury, Kirk, & Mordecai) Iowa and Mariposa sts.
1865-66 - San Francisco Flint Glass Works (C. Newman & P. Brannan) corner Ritch & Townsend sts.
1866-68 - San Francisco Glass Works ( Newman &  Brannan) Townsend St., between 3rd and 4th sts.
1866-1874 - Pacific Glass Works ( Bennett & Co) Iowa & Mariposa sts.
1870-72 - San Francisco Glass Works ( C. Newman & C. Duval) King St., Foot of 4th.
1872-75 - San Francisco Glass Works (Carlton Newman Proprietor) King St. And Fourth.
1875 - Pacific Glass Works ( John Taylor & R. Pattridge) Iowa and Mariposa sts.
1875-1886 - S.F. & Pacific Glass Works (C. Newman & Co.) King St. And foot of 4th St.
1866-1897 - S.F. & Pacific Glass Works (C. Newman & family) 7th and Townsend sts.
1898-99 - S. F. Pacific Glass Works (Newman family & Abramson-Heunisch) 7th and Townsend sts.*1900 - San Francisco & Pacific Glass Works - 15th & Folsom - Site of roof accident*
1902-1920 - Pacific Coast Glass Works, San Francisco, CA. P.C.G.W. Mark.
1902-1925 - Pacific Coast Glass Works P/C in duo-segmented parallelogram
1925-1930 - Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California. P/C in a square. This mark was used possibly as early as 1919, but was definitely in use by 1925.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

However ... This doesn't explain the *Illinois-Pacific Glass Company *being located at 15th & Folsom as shown in this San Francisco directory from *1910 *...       (There is at least one piece missing from the timeline puzzle but I'm not sure what it is)                      [attachment=Pacific Coast Glas... 7th and Irwin.jpg]


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## andy volkerts (Nov 29, 2015)

Perhaps Illinois Glass bought out the S.F. P. Glassworks between the years 1900 and 1910, that would explain it pretty accurately maybe?? And of course combined the two names of both companies........


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

Andy I thought about that, too. But if that was the case, then why don't the various 1902 through 1930 listings have the word "Illinois" in front of them? As far as I know, the Illinois Glass Company didn't enter the picture until 1930. But the most confusing part is the address for the Illinois-Pacific Glass Company being at 15th & Folsom, which we know was originally the San Francisco & Pacific Glass Works address. I double checked the 1910 San Francisco directory and confirmed that the Illinois-Pacific Glass Co. was located at 15th & Folsom at the time.                              Here's another listing I found in the 1910 directory ...                             [attachment=Illinois-Pacific G...S.F. Directory.jpg]


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## andy volkerts (Nov 29, 2015)

If you look closely at your last ad you will see that the president is Abramson, of Abramson & Heunisch who took over the S.F.P.Glass works in 1898-99. So I guess that Abramson & Heunisch were affiliated with Illinois Glass co. They combined the names Illinois and Pacific to form the Illinois Pacific Glass co, ( my Guess only) .......Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

I went back to the Makers Marks website(s) and found this ... [ul][*]I.P.G.CO - Illinois Pacific Glass Company, San Francisco, California (1902-c.1925). Plant locations also at Los Angeles, and later, Oakland, CA, Seattle, WA & Portland, OR.[*]IPGCO in a diamond - Illinois Pacific Glass Company, San Francisco, California (see above entry). [*]IPG in a triangle - Illinois Pacific Glass Corporation, San Francisco, California (c.1925-1930 or 1932). (Name change of company above.)  Glass plant locations at Los Angeles;  Oakland, CA; Seattle, WA;  & Portland, OR.  Usually has a tiny triangle inside the larger triangle, squeezed in above the letters. This mark _might_ have been used earlier than 1925.[/ul]                                                           ~ * ~ Which tells me (I think) that Illinois Glass bought the San Francisco & Pacific Glass Works in 1902 but they didn't buy the Pacific Coast Glass Works/Company, which, apparently, was a completely unrelated glass operation.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

By the way, Andy, good catch on connecting the Abramson name. I missed it!


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## andy volkerts (Nov 29, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> I went back to the Makers Marks website(s) and found this ...   Usually has a tiny triangle inside the larger triangle, squeezed in above the letters. This mark _might_ have been used earlier than 1925.                                                           ~ * ~ Anyways this is the mark found on my Haywards soda bottle for sure..........Andy


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## andy volkerts (Nov 29, 2015)

As you say its confusing for sure!! I am sure the earthquake and fire didn't help either as a lot of records went up In smoke. I have found the State library in Sacramento invaluable in finding lost info, but sadly there is no more than what we have already found, I think it is just a matter of interpreting all the confusing facts into the most reasonable answer, which will probably be a lot of conjecture, along  with the known info....Thanks for working on this, I am going to save all this info and study it some more......Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 29, 2015)

I'm calling it a day with this ...  
By Warren Friedrich ...

S.F.& P.G.W was the longest operating glass works in California during the nineteenth century, essentially operating from Aug 1875 through Nov 1900, approximately 25 years. P.G.W was second, operating from Jun 1863 through Aug 1875, approximately 12 years. With S.F.G.W operating May 1865 and in and out of operation for approximately 9 years with the consolidation of the two glass works in Aug 1875. Both glass works operated under the S.F.& P.G.W monitor for a few months simultaneously until the P.G.W location was dismantled and the property sold in May 1876. [attachment=San Francisco and ...ass Works Mark.jpg]


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