# Genuine Essence w/ Pontil -looking for info



## Sam_MaineBottles (Jun 29, 2004)

Hi All - 

 This nice 4.5 inch bottle is embossed 'Genuine Essence'.  I was curious to know where it might have been from.  I've seen a few of these for sale on eBay with different style of lettering - one even with a 'N' printed backwards. Any info appreciated.

 Sam


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## Sam_MaineBottles (Jun 29, 2004)

Here's a pic of the base with pontil - can anyone shed light on the presence of both the pontil and the diagonal seam?

 Thanks - Sam


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## Harry Pristis (Jun 29, 2004)

Hello, Sam . . .

 Nice bottle!  I think it is your bottle in McKearin/Wilson in Illustration 78,

_Blue-aquamarine, long rectangular body, fluted corners, long cylindrical neck, narrow round collar,; inscribed lengthwise on one side: "GENUINE ESSENCE"; paper label on the other side: "From FREDERICK KLETT & CO's / ESS. PEPPERMINT. / Drug and Chemical Warehouse.  N.E. Cor. Callowhill / and Second Streets, Philad'a."  1843-58 address.  Capacity, 1.5oz. Height, 4 7/8".  Body, 5/8" by 1 1/8"._

 The hinge-mold/open pontil scar is a common condition after about 1830.

 Here is a link to an earlier thread where this combo is discussed (w/pix).  https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m_2172/mpage_1/key_hinge%2Cmold/anchor/tm.htm#2239

 ----------Harry Pristis


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## Oldtimer (Jun 30, 2004)

How about my "Dr. J Moore's Essance Life" ? It is the clear leaning bottle seen here. Pontiled, flattened  disc top, and the mold line goes right under the pontil. Any clues to  where it came from, and perhaps value? Kovels lists it at $90.00 US., but I don't place much stock in them.

 Thanks

 OT.


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## Harry Pristis (Jul 1, 2004)

OT . . .

 I find no ready reference to a Dr. J. Moore.

 There is a John M. Moore who bought the Fislerville Glass Works (Clayton, NJ) in 1856.  McKearin-Wilson reproduce an 1867 advertisement which lists Moore as owner with no reference to his being a "Dr."

 This is a possibility, but with a low probability, I think.

 ----------Harry Pristis


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## Pontiled (Jul 1, 2004)

The _J. Moore's Essence .... _ bottle is much earlier. I had one that still had about 2/3 of its contents remaining. It almost got me into a spot. One fellow really wanted it bad. He knew what the contents was and the heck with the bottle! I emptied the contents (a very high street value) down the toilet. I don't have my reference books nearby and we're fixing to leave to see my daughters, so I can't look for them now, but it seems to me that it may have been listed in _19th Century Medicines in Glass_. I'll check when we return.


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## amblypygi (Jul 1, 2004)

> ORIGINAL:  Pontiled
> 
> The _J. Moore's Essence .... _ bottle is much earlier. I had one that still had about 2/3 of its contents remaining. It almost got me into a spot. One fellow really wanted it bad. He knew what the contents was and the heck with the bottle! I emptied the contents (a very high street value) down the toilet. I don't have my reference books nearby and we're fixing to leave to see my daughters, so I can't look for them now, but it seems to me that it may have been listed in _19th Century Medicines in Glass_. I'll check when we return.


 
 Hi Mike,

 Baldwin lists an ad for DJ or Dr. Moore's Essence Life from the Connecticut Courant (Hartford), January 4th, 1820. Hey, speaking of good bottle books, what's that limited first edition on the left going for these days? []


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## Pontiled (Jul 1, 2004)

Hi! I haven't seen the First Edition listed for quite a while now. I know it's a goodie among antique bottle collectors. Be glad you have one. It sold out very quickly.

 As for the J. Moore's bottle, I would easily put it into the 1820-1830 era with no real problem.


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## woody (Jul 1, 2004)

Let me know if you want to part with that extra Covill's book, Sean.
 I grew up in South Hadley, Mass.


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## Harry Pristis (Jul 1, 2004)

Hey, I also have one of Mike's "Limited First Edition" guides.  Just how collectible are they?  I didn't realize that they were sought after by collectors.

 I find the Dr. J. Moore listed in Nielsen's GREAT AMERICAN PONTILED MEDICINES (1978) as having a two-star rarity (common).  No history of the maker of the nostrum or of the bottle-maker.

 -------------Harry Pristis


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## Sam_MaineBottles (Jul 1, 2004)

Harry - 

 Thanks for the info on the Genuine Essence bottle - I can enjoy the bottle that much more knowing something of its background and history.

 Thanks again - Sam


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## Flaschenjager (Jul 1, 2004)

*Woody* - I see two Covills Ink books also. I can see many doubles and triples there on the table[]. I am always buying bottle reference books, so if you're selling any *amblypygi* drop me a line please. 

 These are the ones I have, so far...

 http://members.aol.com/meechuta/library.html

 I am looking for the Toulouse and Covill books, which seem to always go for a small fortune. I am also trying to find the Dumbrell book for $1 or so [][][].


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## amblypygi (Jul 1, 2004)

> ORIGINAL:  woody
> 
> Let me know if you want to part with that extra Covill's book, Sean.
> I grew up in South Hadley, Mass.


 
 Hi Woody,

 I may be willing to part with that, but not for money. I prefer to keep money in the form of books, bottles or other art rather than in bank accounts, it's more enjoyable that way. Think about a trade and maybe we can work something out. You must have some doubles on your bottle shelf that you're bored with []

 I think you can get my email through the forum, right? If not, let me know.

 Sean


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## amblypygi (Jul 2, 2004)

Nice library Meech! I've been trying to get that Dumbrell book for a long time now too, it isn't easy. I've been picking up multiple copies of things because I think ebay is going to drive the hobby through the roof, and one can seldom just dig up the books, now can one []

 The toughest time I've had getting ahold of one so far (besides Dumbrell) was the Richard Fike Bottle Book, which is great. It seldom comes up, and always goes for a small fortune as you say.

 Another one I've yet to acquire is Nielsen, got 2 of those do you? []

 Sean


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## Flaschenjager (Jul 2, 2004)

*Sean* - 
 Thanks...When the Fike book comes up on eBay, and they notify me, you and I will probably be bidding against one another, along with 20 or more bottle nuts. The only doubles I have are of Baldwins - meds. I have a upstairs and a downstairs copy[]. My Nielsen's GREAT AMERICAN PONTILED MEDICINES was picked up only recently and for under $20 if I remember correctly. I saw a copy a few days ago go for nearly $70. A lot of what I have, believe it or not, I bought as a lot or for $1 or $2 a book. Then there's some that I probably paid too much.  You can still get some of these books fairly cheap, maybe not on eBay, but there are ways. This won't last long though. 

 When I see the Nielsen book, I'll shoot you an email and let you know when and where.


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## David E (Jul 2, 2004)

Bottle makers and their Marks, Julian Toulouse 76-14715
 ISBN 0-8407-4318-1 
 Check your Library for it, we had one but someone stole it and had to borrow it from an Oregon Library (somtime back) Looks like it was printed in 1976. Lucky I was cheap and copied all down before (no I didn't steal it). Anyway way back when a local book store told me he could order it for $25.00 (its' hard back). Well if I can read my writing I have it.

 Michael E. FIKE, The Bottle book( A comphrehensive guide to historic, embosed medicine bottles . Gibes M. Smith Inc,, Peregrine Smith Books Salt Lake City 1987.
 First Edition 91 90 89  87 5 4 3 2 1 
 Copywrite 1987 Gibbs M Smith Inc.
 ISBN 0-87905-218-X
 293 pages (no I didn't steal it it was given to me) Does not gives prices, but gives everything else. Cost unknown.

 Dave


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## amblypygi (Jul 2, 2004)

Hey Meech,

 I won't be bidding against you, I finally managed to get a copy a while ago on ebay. It was one of a lot of 6 good books that went for about $100, so I don't feel too bad about it. I've since re-sold 2 of the others for $65, so I didn't do too bad on the Fike. It really is a good book, tons of information. Our university library has a copy and the archaeologists have almost used it to death, the binding is in tatters. Before I found mine I was planning to try to scan that copy, although they don't let it leave the library so I would have had to beg.

 There are a couple of copies of Nielsen on the web for 125-150, but I can't do that right yet without pissing off a certain significant other who rightfully doesn't think we need more books at the moment. As you may have noticed in the picture, everything I own is stacked haphazardly because we are doing major house renovations which have basically cost us the use of several rooms [>:]

 I'd like to start another thread on the increasing rarity of good scores on ebay, but maybe I should make that a fresh post.

 Sean


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## Oldtimer (Jul 2, 2004)

Thanks for the info on the DJMEL.

 I am stunned there is such intrest in the books. You'll all be proud to know I have 3; 2 Kovells, 1 Stuart & Cosentino "Bottles, a guide for the beginning collector". 
 I prefer digging in the dirt for bottles. I can't imagine having so many bottles that I needed to dig for books too. Thats what this forum is for right?[]


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## Oldtimer (Aug 3, 2004)

That is a keeper! 1820-1830 bottles are sorta hard to find, let alone one with a partial lable!

 I found a Dr.J. Moore's Essence Life with crude pontil (no Label) for 20 bucks and thought I did well. Kovels lists it as being a $90.00 bottle. True value is hard to place. 

 Please post a pic!


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## amblypygi (Aug 4, 2004)

Hi Nancy,

 Yes, I agree with oldtimer; that's a keeper! A picture would help, but what you describe sounds like a nice early labeled bottle that would likely sell for $100 or more because of the label.

 Now, as Thoreau made fun of us for doing, you should keep it for your kids []

 Sean


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## David E (Aug 7, 2004)

Hi Sam out of 33 entrys into Fikes book only one is '
 Genuine Essences
 Aqua 5' x 1 1/16" x5/8"
 This is all that is given.

 Dave


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## David E (Aug 7, 2004)

The Moores bottle is kind of confusing in that intlials are transposed(or whatever)
 I have a Moore's Revealed Remedy but it was made in 1895 (Stockton Calif) but also makes reference to see Syrup, essence of life Arkansas liver and kidney Remedy,
 Red Skin Linement. Also the HHH horse medicine, Did not see a DR.
 Have some of above if needed.

 Dave


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## Danoh (Aug 8, 2004)

I have a very similar bottle which I bought on E-bay. It says "Pure Essence" with the same script. It also is pontiled.


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