# building a tumbler



## buzzkutt033 (Jan 18, 2008)

I've got most of the materials ready for my tumbler. thought maybe I'd post pix of the project as I move along........... Take care all.


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 18, 2008)

and anudder.............


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 18, 2008)

table............


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## capsoda (Jan 18, 2008)

Good idea. How would we live woth out dexion????[]


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## idigjars (Jan 18, 2008)

Hi Buzz.   

 Great idea of posting pictures as your project moves along.  It might help somebody else wanting to build a tumbler.

 You are going to love this bottle cleaning process.  It can be a little messy but if you have a sink area that is convenient to the whole cleaning process it will work good for you.

 I built my first tumbler and it worked as well as my new bought unit.  I put a lot of money into the motor on my homemade unit.  It was a Dayton gear motor.  It only ran at 65rpm but by increasing the pulley size on the motor it would turn a 4â€ tube about 85 rpmâ€™s.   I think it was cheaper to run also because of the lower rpmâ€™s.  In fact I am thinking of getting another one of those motors and replacing the motor on my new unit.   The gear motor I had before hardly got warm and I ran it 24/7 for about 5 years straight.   The motor on my new unit gets really hot and it concerns me.

 The biggest cost right now is the copper.  If you have a source for it, that will save you a lot of money.  Most sellers are charging $8.50 a pound and that adds up pretty quick.  The bitters that I posted before and after pictures of took every bit of 30 pounds of copper in a 5â€ tube so that will give you an idea of quantity needed.   So if you can get that copper cost down it will help.  My new buddy Tim from Canada gave me a great idea on a copper cutter and I have asked a maintenance man at work to make me something similar.  I was hoping it would be ready today for me to try it out this weekend but itâ€™s not done yet.  If mine works out good I will let you know and you can have pictures of it if you want.

 On my homemade unit I used a 2 by 4 on the sides and the conveyor ends rested on the top of the 2by side (1.5â€).  I used drywall screws to keep the ends secured on both sides of the conveyor and it worked fine.  That way if you need to move the conveyors in or out you can just remove the drywall screws and replace them again.

 I used a solvent on the metal conveyors to get rubber tubing over the metal.  The solvent I used is golf club solvent that is used to put the grips on golf clubs.   Makes that job easy.

 I have some pictures of how I make tumbling tubes if you are interested I can post them or email them to you.

 I will look to see if I have a picture of the homemade tumbler I made before and post it if I can find it when I get home from work.

 Good luck with your project.  You are going to love bringing the glass back to life.  Almost as good a feeling as when you pulled the bottle out of the ground.   Okay, not that good of a feeling but close anyway.  If I can help you with anything email me or let me know.

 Best regards                       Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 18, 2008)

thanx much for the offer Paul, I'm sure I'll take the opportunity to " pick your brain " as I move along. Internet a great tool for this great hobby. Take care all..........

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 18, 2008)

and another...................


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 18, 2008)

this is the one I'm using as my " guide ". i think i remember this guy having a brother in law who owned a machine shop. mine won't look so nice but...................


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## idigjars (Jan 18, 2008)

Here is a pic of my homemade one.  I used it for 5 years and my buddy has been using it for 5 years.  1" steel Rc 55 drive shaft.  Ball bearing conveyor rollers, the pillow blocks have grease zerts.  I don't think my new machine will last like this but we'll see.   Anyway, anything I can do to help just let me know.     Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 25, 2008)

Greetings all,

 I'm trying to figure out what size pulleys i need for my tumbler. I'm using the photo 2 posts back as a guide. I have 2" pulleys for the motor and the shaft. What size should the two larger pulleys be?? My drive motor us 1725 rpm. Any ideas?? Thanks and Take Care All.

 Jim


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## idigjars (Jan 26, 2008)

Hi Buzz, my motor on my bought unit is 1725rpm's.  I will post a pic of the config for you.  Paul


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## idigjars (Jan 26, 2008)

Here's the pic Buzz


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## idigjars (Jan 26, 2008)

1 = motor pulley = 1.5"
 2 = Jack shaft pulley = 10"
 #3 from the jackshaft to #4 on the drive shaft will equal 85rpms with a 4" tube.

 #3 = 3.5"
 #4 = 2"

 If you switch the pulleys on the jack shaft from #4 smaller to #3 larger on the drive shaft the speed would be around 40/50rpms for square / rectangular bottles with a 4" tube.

 Hope this helps and isn't confusing.  Good luck with your project.     Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 26, 2008)

thanx for the input folks. I ran out to a U-PULL IT junkyard today and got 4 different sized pulleys ($2.00). my motor is also 1725 rpm w/ a 2" pulley. Hopefully i'll be able to vary the pulley size to adjust speed. I'll post some more photos as I go along. Thanx again !!!

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 27, 2008)

here are some of the pulleys ( wheels ) i'm gonna try.


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 27, 2008)

this is one i took the tire off. looks like about the right size??? need to figure out how to attach pulley wheel to drive roller. getting there...............

 take care all

 Jim


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## idigjars (Jan 28, 2008)

Hello Lobey, wish I could help you out with your flask but I'm not setup to do any grinding right now.  I was out of this for about 5 years and just got back in.  I don't normally clean for others as I have enough of my own to clean up but if I had the setup to grind I would help you just to help this time.  Strap side flasks are usually pretty sturdy.

 To grind you need copper that you can just use for that purpose.  I use a 12micron aluminum oxide for 6 hours and the glass comes out looking like a frosted bottle, and most scratches are gone.  Kind of cool.  Not a good idea to mix cutting copper and polishing copper.  Anyway, a friend is going to hook me up with some used/worn out copper at the Grandville Mich show next month that I can use for that purpose.

 I think Digger Ry can help you out though.  He advertises here all the time.  Here is his link and he is pretty reasonable.  https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Professional-Tumbling-Services-Digger-Ry-Style/m-130841/tm.htm

 Good luck with your flask Lobey and best regards.                          Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Feb 7, 2008)

I haven't given up gang...........  i decided to order pillow blocks and pulleys from a distributor. I'm saving quite a bit of cash by building it myself, and this seems like a good time to spend wisely. Next wednesday is disability check day, will order stuff after that. Items not nearly as expensive as i would have thought. Ok, take care all..............

 Jim


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## idigjars (Feb 8, 2008)

Wish we lived closer to each other Jim.  I get a discount through my work on parts like you are getting for your tumbler.     For the pillow blocks, are you getting the kind with the grease fittings on them?   They last forever if you keep them greased every couple of weeks.   

 If you are buying v belts, try a link type belt.  They might be a little costlier but it really cuts down on noise and runs more true than the classic v-belts.  

 I was skeptical until I tuned up my table saw and that was the recommendation to go to a link belt.  It made a believer out of me and you will always have the right size because you make it smaller or larger by pulling out a link or adding one.

 Let me know if I can help you with anything.  Good luck with your project.                Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Feb 8, 2008)

thanx for the suggestions Paul. I need all the help I can get!!! will keep you all updated. Take care all.............

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 8, 2008)

well i finally got most of the parts for my tumbler project. got the pillow blocks, 5/8" shaft and assorted pulleys. this should get me going. i have heavy duty 6" plastic pipe for the tubes. seems like most of you use the 4". is that because we use less abrasive?? thanx and take care all.

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 8, 2008)

another pic.


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## idigjars (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi Jim, looks like you are coming right along.  Good for you.  Keep us posted and when you start cleaning bottles post some pics for us.   Take care          Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 10, 2008)

getting there..........  trip to see my friend at the garage tomorrow morning for some " custom " welding. 

 jimbo


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 11, 2008)

Greetings all,

 i'm ready to hook up some belts and see what happens. where do i purchase the " link type " belts you have suggested i use?? is this a hardware store item, home depot, or what? thanx in advance for your help. i live in bookoo. it's six miles to a traffic light let alone a store. thanx again.

 Jimbo


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## GuntherHess (Mar 11, 2008)

Looks like you are using pillow blocks with grease fittings?
 If so, dont forget to grease them or they wont last long.


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 11, 2008)

yes, they kinda found me. let's say the price was right..........  would rather have had sealed bearings but..............thanx for the heads up. i probably wouldn't have thought of that. i've got the basic assembly together. probably gonna be some " adjusting " to be done. gotta find belts.

 Jimbo


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 11, 2008)

another view


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## idigjars (Mar 12, 2008)

Hello Jim, if you have a Harbor Freight around you they sell them for around $15(yellow).  Grainger sells them for about $30(red).  Your project is coming right along.  Won't be long you will be posting pics of your cleaned bottles.  Good for you!    Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 12, 2008)

thanx Paul. i'll hit Harbor Freight tomorrow morning on my food shopping run. I'm gonna set the six inch plastic pipe to the side for now and go with 4" cannisters. i'll have no problem finding some schedule 40 pipe, but the stoppels might be a bit tricky. thanx again.

 Jimbo


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## idigjars (Mar 12, 2008)

Jim, email me.  I just ordered some parts to make some stopples today.  They are supposed to be here tomorrow.  I can send you pics on how I make mine.  I have bottles coming out tomorrow so I can show you a pic of the stopple whether the parts get here or not it will give you an idea.    Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 18, 2008)

Believe it or not gang, the tumbler is up and running. I've gotta stop by the garage today and borrow a grease gun for my pillow bearings before i run it any length of time though. i timed it and it is turning at 25 rpm on the drive roller. this is a little under my target of 30-45 rpms. what do you all think?? gotta say i'm kinda surprised it's turning out as well as it is. of course, the help and advice i got here made the difference. thanx again for all your input. 

 i think i'll put the 6" cannisters on hold and start with 4".........

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 19, 2008)

made some adjustments to the pulleys and now the drive roller is spinning at 46 rpm. gotta make some cannisters and stoppels, find some copper and then run a couple trial bottles thru to get a feel of how to do this. if i can do this, anyone can.........

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 19, 2008)

hi campers. I'm heading out shopping tomorrow and would like to pick up materials to make cannisters. If i use Schedule 40    4" plastic pipe, will i be able to easily make stoppels to fit? this is the part i've been wondering about. i imagine i should make several different length cannisters for different length bottles. can anyone help?? thanx gang.

 Jimbo


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## idigjars (Mar 20, 2008)

Hi Jim, that is a great looking flask.  

 Please don't turn that flask until you've turned some other nothing bottles and gotten the hang of this process.  

 For your question, yes make some different lengths.  I cut the pipe with my power mitre saw that has a carbide tipped blade on it.

 Obviously you wouldn't need a long tube to turn an ink bottle and if the lengths are shorter you can put multiple tubes on the rollers.

 To make tubes, I buy 1/4" to 3/8" plexiglass and glue the plexiglass pieces to the bottom of the schedule 40 pipe.  

 I cut the plexiglass pieces on my table saw slightly larger than the tube diameter and then use the pvc pipe cleaner and cement and glue them on the end.  Don't be stingy with the glue, slather it on, excess ok even on the inside.       

 After 24 hours of drying, I take my router with a carbide tip bit for cutting formica, etc and cut off the plexiglass to make it round like the tube.

 I use bottle base holders that I can take in and out.  That's why I do it this way.  Makes them more versatile at least from my perspective.

 Not had any problems with inks, smaller bottles in doing this.  I can post pics when I get home of how I make these if you want me to.        Good luck with your project.            Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 20, 2008)

I'm with you on the ends of the cannisters, it's the holders for the base and top of the bottle i'm wondering about................how do I fabricate these???

 thanx again Paul


 Jimbo


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## idigjars (Mar 21, 2008)

Hello Jim, this is what I use.  Just giving you ideas.  JarDoctor, Wayne Lowery sells stopples and base holders if you want to go that route.

 I take 3/8" plexiglass and drill holes in the base and tap them, then put stainless steel machine screws in.  I bend them to an angle with pliers then put vinyl/plastic tubing over the screws that fits snuggly over the screws.

 I use a four finger for round inks, 3 finger for round medicines, and 2 finger for rectangular bottles.  

 Just showing you what works for me.  For larger items like fruit jars it's best to get regular made base holders like Wayne sells.

 Just sharing.              Paul


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## idigjars (Mar 21, 2008)

3 finger


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## idigjars (Mar 21, 2008)

2 finger


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## idigjars (Mar 21, 2008)

For stoppers I buy round plastic dowel from McMaster Carr (5' for about $10 + shipping).

 I cut a piece about 1 1/4" length.    

 Drill a hole in the center with a 5/16" drill bit then tap the hole using a 3/8" X 16 tap.   Then put the piece in my drill press and using a drywall rasp make the angle I want.  

 This works for me for any medicine, ink, regular mouth type bottle.  Obviously wouldn't work for a fruit jar.  JarDoctor can help with that or any other parts you might need.

 Just sharing                             Paul


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## idigjars (Mar 21, 2008)

another view

 This small tip also saves you copper by the shorter length.  Good luck with your project, keep us posted with pics.          Paul


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## buzzkutt033 (Mar 22, 2008)

I'm thinking this might be the time to spend some of the money i've saved by doing the work myself Paul. looks like for under $100 i can get a 4" x 20" cannister and stoppels from the Jar Doc. that will get me started and i can gather the materials and experiment building my own cannisters and holders. hate spending perfectly good bottle buying $$$ , but i think it makes sense. This should allow me some time to investigate the different cutting and polishing methods. Thanx again for your help, and i'll keep everyone posted. 

 Jim


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## rando (Mar 23, 2008)

Here's the one i'm working on .


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## buzzkutt033 (Apr 12, 2008)

spoke with Wayne ( JarDoc ) last night and ordered 4" clear tube w/stoppels. nice fellow, very helpful/informative.  just thougth i'd update the post.


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## buzzkutt033 (Apr 12, 2008)

i noticed the bottom on this bottle when i was cleaning the cabinet. you folk seem very knowledgable on this stuff. is this some kind of refired pontil?? back in my former life as a bottle collector we really only designated open pontil or iron pontil. I've learned quite a bit over the past few months about variations of pontils. any comments on this one??


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## buzzkutt033 (Apr 12, 2008)

here's another angle. this is the bottom of the tussano's cure from a couple posts ago. thanx all!!

 Jim


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## GuntherHess (Apr 12, 2008)

Judging from the lip style that would be a cup mold. 
http://www.sha.org/bottle/bases.htm
 The striations in the glass are just from uneven cooling.


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## buzzkutt033 (Apr 13, 2008)

interesting stuff Matt. thanx for the site. I went and checked out the page on cup molds. you may well be right. what made me think otherwise was the concentric circular patterns in the bottom of the glass. I noticed on the page that all " cup molds " are not cupped, that many have flat bottoms as does the Tussanos. ok, thanx again Matt for your input. 


 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (May 23, 2008)

i've been playing around with my tumbler. got the bugs worked out. car problems have put a crimp into my plan to buy a cannister/stoppel set from JarDoc. Maybe June will be a kinder month......... anyway, i tumbled the inside of this ink. used cut up scrap copper wire I had laying around. wrapped it in a towel and stuffed it into a coffee can. tumbled it for 3 or 4 days.


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## buzzkutt033 (May 23, 2008)

I've owned this bottle for 25-30 years and tried many times to get the whitish gray sickness out.


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## buzzkutt033 (May 23, 2008)

we can still see a couple stripes of the sick glass on the bottom. it was much much worse and covered a majority of the inside of the umbrella ink. 

 Jim


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## GuntherHess (May 23, 2008)

Did you try filling it , sealing the top , and packing it in the tube side ways (top facing the tube walls)? That might do a better job cleaning the bottom.


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## buzzkutt033 (May 23, 2008)

yes, i'm kinda learning thru trial and error along with the input i get in here. remember the good old days when scrap copper was easily found??? thanx again matt for the help. 

 Jim


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## GuntherHess (May 23, 2008)

right now i'm using a mixture of 1/3 copper 2/3 glass beads


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## buzzkutt033 (May 24, 2008)

greetings,

 sorry i haven't been able to respond. God daughter staying for the weekend and it's hard to get any computer time.............. I spoke with Wayne about 3 weeks ago and he was out of clear plexiglass for the cannisters ( which seemed kinda odd but what do I know). He asked me to call back in a couple weeks. Then the trans went on my 2002 Focus. Of course it had a 100,000 mile drivetrain warranty and went at 105,000. Price to rebuild old trans $1950 plus labor to install. We found a junkyard tranny and garage will supply trans and install for $1200. Re thinking making my own cannisters and stoppels.................

 Matt, what size glass beads and where do you purchase them? Is that an arts and crafts store item?? Thanx again to everyone for their help and guidance. 

 can't wait to get this boot off my foot. doc says about another month. have been nursing a diabetic ulcer since before Christmas. good news is i get to keep the foot. got all my bottle digging gear ready to go complete with digging partner who has begun w/o me......................

 Jim


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## miker31567 (May 27, 2008)

Hey guys.


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 1, 2008)

cannister/stoppels came from the JarDoc the other day. very nice setup. I ordered the glass beads, thanx Matt for the supplier. shipping not too bad..... so, I'm getting there, but still trying to track down some scrap copper. I remodeled my basement a couple years ago and used up every foot of wire i bought............ if all else fails, i guess i could actually buy some....................thanx again to everyone for their guidance.

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm ready to start an inside/outside tumble. i've got the glass beads and some cut copper. after i full the bottle 1/2 full of copper/glass beads and top it with water, how do i seal the top of the bottle so the liquid stays inside during the tumbling process? do i fill the cannister half full with copper/glass beads and water also?? kinda excited, been on this project off and on for months. thanx in advance for any help.

 Jim


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## GuntherHess (Jun 9, 2008)

I use a cone shaped stopple which plugs the bottle mouth when I insert it in the tube. You just have to be careful it lines up if you have opaque tubes.


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 9, 2008)

thanx Matt, that's what i figured. i wanted to be sure before I fired it up. when completed, do i store the water/copper/glass bead mixture in a bucket? or do i strain it with cheesecloth or something to seperate it? thanx again.

 Jim


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## GuntherHess (Jun 9, 2008)

You have to clean the copper or beads after tumbling. I use one of this fine mesh strainers from Walmart or whereever.


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 10, 2008)

gotcha.  thanx again.

 Jim


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## Wilkie (Jun 10, 2008)

I found a very informative webpage which discusses in detail about building a bottle tumbler and shows some outstanding pictures of step by step use.  http://www.privydigger.com/cleaning.htm


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 11, 2008)

thanx tim, i saved the page for future reference. 

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 22, 2008)

well folks, thanx to your input and guidance, i've got my homemade tumbler doing it's thing. i ran a couple " junkers " through and have had mixed results. asked a few more questions and now seem to have the process dialed in much better. a few days and i should have some before/after pix. ( got my fingers crossed anyway ). thanx again for everyones help.

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 26, 2008)

here's the first " decent " bottle i'm trying to tumble

 before


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 26, 2008)

after about 4 days or so. glass was very sick on this one so probably could use at least that much time again to clean it up nice. very pleased though......... i'm learning.

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 28, 2008)

i bought a couple drive belts for a vacuum cleaner and used them to ease the ride for my cannister on the steel rollers. works nice.

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jun 28, 2008)

i ran this one for a couple days to buff it up a bit. what a difference!! cleaned up all the haze from the inside and removed the old paint that was on the embossing. gotta say the bottle seemed to turn from a regular ho hum amber into a sort of reddish amber after polishing. i'm getting the hang of it.......sorta..............

 this is a Duffy's look alike.  embossing " Perrines Pure Barley Malt Whiskey    Philadelphia  PA " 

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Jul 12, 2008)

been playing w/ the tumbler. getting the hang of it. finally got a bunch of copper wire, but need to cut it up. 

 here's the before pic of a winslow's syrup


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## buzzkutt033 (Jul 12, 2008)

here's the after        thanx for  the tip on glass beads. i'm using Brasso polish also.

 Jimbo


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## privvydigger (Aug 29, 2008)

hey buzz whats that citron amber bottle....I just dug one and am looking for info....is there embossing on the bottom?
 thx
 privvydigger


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## bottlediger (Aug 29, 2008)

that one posted earlyer looks to be a pontil utitilty so it wont say anything on the bottom

 Digger ry


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## buzzkutt033 (Aug 30, 2008)

nope, nothing anywhere on that one. can't remember where it came from. it's one that was packed away since the early 80's or so. glass is very sick. could use some more time in the tumbler. 

 Jim


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## bottlediger (Aug 30, 2008)

Hey Jim, where are you getting your copper wire? I could use some more

 Digger Ry


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## buzzkutt033 (Aug 30, 2008)

copper sure is scarce nowadays.......  buddy of mine got a few pounds of 12 gauge copper wire where he works. the electricians helped him out. i cut it down by hand. i believe you can buy it from the jar doc or several other sources. put it in a search engine and go. 


 Jim


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## bottlediger (Aug 31, 2008)

buy it from the jar doc [] at 8.50 a lbs no way. I just wanted to see if you knew anyone local that sold wire for scrap price, 2.70 a lbs here. Hey check out how to cut that copper wire with a drill press. I cut about 3 or 4 lbs by hand and it took forEVER but it was kinda fun. Cut 50 lbs with the drill press in about 30 mins lol. Good luck with your tumbler, it looks like your off to a great start!

 Digger Ry


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## buzzkutt033 (Sep 1, 2008)

i saw the post with the drill press and block set up. i tried to set something up with my vise and workbench, but it didn't work out as well as it could have............ figured i'd just do a little at a time and got enough to get me going. take care fella. hold down the fort for us down there in York.

 Jim


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## buzzkutt033 (Nov 17, 2008)

bump


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## buzzkutt033 (Jan 25, 2009)

double bump


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## Indianabottledigger (Dec 19, 2011)

bump


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## stlouisbottles (Feb 1, 2012)

I was wondering if anyone has a idea on saving pontil marks on soda's? I am looking for something to save the red oxide.

 Always looking for St Louis Bottles: Colored Soda's, Black Glass Ales, Pepper Sauces and Colored Druggist.


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 1, 2012)

I never did any with that type of pontil mark but I heard people use a rubber ball to protect the oxide. Not sure if that works for both 3 or 4 prong holders.


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## epackage (Feb 1, 2012)

I think some have said clear nail polish works well, but my memory may be wrong...The Jar Doctor says "Other specialty accessories for the canisters are also available, such as pontil adapters to protect those very precious pontil marks."

 His site...

 http://www.jardoctor.com/CleaningCanisters.htm


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## stlouisbottles (Feb 3, 2012)

Ok, if anyone else comes up with a way to save the pontils let me know.


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## rando (Feb 6, 2012)

Tennis ball *without* the green fuzz fits perfect in the pontil, as well as the stopple fingers.
 Randy


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## RED Matthews (Feb 7, 2012)

INTERESTING Thread;  I have collected and saved a lot of different pontil marked glass.  The thing that interests me the most is the material used to pick up the media that holds the bottle formed.  I realize that white lead,  red lead and graphite pastes were used to hold the media material, ie. iron powder, sand, glass dust and/or chips.  I have deep push-up punty rod wines, with just white lead on the contact surface.  It must have held the bottle with the shape as much as the media.   It is also interesting to realize that the punty rods diameter has a lot to do with the weight of the bottle that has to be held.  In many of these applications the glass dust and chips were only picked up on the edge of the punty rods shape. 

 There is a big lack of mechanical information in the written descriptions, written in the books on early glass forming.  It was just job security to keep what your do or did, from being blabbed out to those writing their descriptions.  At least that is in my opinion.    RED Matthews


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 7, 2012)

> The thing that interests me the most is the material used to pick up the media that holds the bottle formed. I realize that white lead, red lead and graphite pastes were used to hold the media material, ie. iron powder, sand, glass dust and/or chips. I have deep push-up punty rod wines, with just white lead on the contact surface. It must have held the bottle with the shape as much as the media


 
 I also am interested in analyzing the trace remains on the various colored iron pontil marks. I am trying to find shards with thick preserved pontil material.


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## Basil.W.Duke (Sep 27, 2012)

what are the aluminum rollers....what did they come off of?  Thank you for pinning this post.


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## buzzkutt033 (Sep 28, 2012)

the rollers i used were from a conveyor system often used in unloading boxes from trucks. got a set of 3 rollers on Ebay for $20.

 jim


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## andy volkerts (Nov 7, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  stlouisbottles
> 
> I was wondering if anyone has a idea on saving pontil marks on soda's? I am looking for something to save the red oxide.
> 
> Always looking for St Louis Bottles: Colored Soda's, Black Glass Ales, Pepper Sauces and Colored Druggist.


 Hobby craft stores sell this rubber stuff that brushes on and dries, and is easily removed afterwards, doesnt get in the way of the fingers holding the bottles, just cover the pontil area, as it stops the cleaning action very well. I use a layer about 1/8th of an inch thick, about two applications with the brush.......


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## stlouisbottles (Feb 5, 2013)

Thanks I will try to find it.


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## cacarpetbagger (Feb 6, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  stlouisbottles
> 
> Ok, if anyone else comes up with a way to save the pontils let me know.


 I have used metal ducting tape.  Just cut it with scissors to fit, I usually put two layers on.  I have had some glue come off the tape and stick to the pontil.  On gray iron pontils I just cleaned it off with acetone.  Not sure what the glue might do to the red pontil?


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## tangomango (Mar 2, 2013)

I am in process of building a tumbler, and while doing I am cutting about a 3 ft. piece of copper wire a day.   As you all know the process is taking forever.   Theres gotta be a better way . . . I have seen a few older posts in regards to making a cutting jig, the problem is all require a pretty stout block of steel, which I don't have access to or the abilty to machine.   I was thiking about using a large hex head bolt, 1/2 in. dia. or so, drilling the drill hole down the center, a large relief hole in the back and a perpendicular hole for the wire, then putting a nut the end to clamp the whole sha-bang into the vise.  Does anyone have any other ideas of a way to do this with Home Improvement store materials.  Thanks . . .


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## epackage (Mar 2, 2013)

If you're talking about a block to feed the wire thru while you run the drill I have seen people here make it out of wood with great success...


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## SODIGGER (Mar 28, 2013)

Has anyone the specs and the do's and don'ts on how to build a small reliable tumbler? Thanks


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## bamabottles (May 26, 2013)

rather than go into details that have already been posted here many times, i will just say it is best for you to search these forums using the search button.  this place is a gold mine of info.  After you have read the many posts regarding building your own tumbler, then come back with your remaining questions.  i have one jar dr machine and one hand made machine.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 27, 2013)

yum , SPAM is for breakfast


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## lblackvelvet (Nov 23, 2013)

*Re:  RE: building a tumbler*

Hello, I am building a tumbler and have seen the ones in this thread, Very nice job! I have to ask why several different pulleys and belts? Is it a gear reduction thing? If so, why not use a variable speed motor with only one belt to the drive roller ? I am just curious so I don't build mine this way and it not work proper. Right now I have about 200.00 in everything with two homemade canisters. I bought a 3/4 hp. variable (new) motor with pulley. I bought 10 rollers with pillow bearings  21.5'' long x 1.7/8'' in diameter.  The drive roller is a 1'' stainless steel rod . The motor is a sewing machine motor that uses 60% less electric than a normal motor. Please give me your advise about not using multiple pulleys and belts.  Thanks,  Kevin...


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## andy volkerts (Nov 23, 2013)

*Re:  RE: building a tumbler*

Multiple pulleys and belts are one way of being able to change tumbler speed, since you will need speeds of about 35-50 for square bottles and 45-55 for round bottles. using pulleys for speed changes means you can use an industrial strength motor and it will not get hot while running continuously for about a week(very important). On my tumbler I have an industrial gear motor which has a belt transmission for just about any speed, I got it very cheap at an auction $75.00 at a discontinued cannery years ago. Not everybody will be that lucky, as new it would cost a thousand bucks or better. I don't know how well your sewing machine motor will work as I suspect the tumbler load may be quite a bit more than the sewing machine load(amount of work the motor is doing). and may run hot, not a good idea. but try it and see what happens. might work quite well. A 1725-50 rpm motor can run about a hundred bucks new of good quality(dayton electric) or similar, and pulleys at a junk yard are cheap and you can try a lot of combos, belts at a automotive store are not too expensive. What you want is speed availability, cool running, and not a power hog. the 1725-50 motor and pulleys work well and give these qualities......


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## lblackvelvet (Nov 23, 2013)

*Re:  RE: building a tumbler*

Hello Andy,     Thank you for your reply, I did a lot of research on this motor, It is designed to run 24 hours a day for a commercial large sewing machine. It is 550 watt 3/4 hp. The variable speed control is what I was looking for so I could save money and maintenance on multiple belts,bearings,ect... I don't plan on tumbling more than 3 or 4 bottles at a time. I hope my research will pay off with this motor. I was going to buy a 1/2 hp. @ 400 watt motor and thought better go to the larger 550 watt 3/4 hp. for 10.00 more. I should have it up and running in about a week or so and I will post a picture. I have a member who lives close by who is going to assist me in the proper technique of tumbling. Thanks again, Kevin..


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## andy volkerts (Nov 23, 2013)

*Re:  RE: building a tumbler*

Hello Kevin. That detail about your motor lets me know that it should work quite well. Usually a speed control uses resistance to slow or speed up a motor, but if it as industrial as you say it should work ok without putting off excess heat....and 3/4 horsepower will power far more bottles than what you are going to do, so you should have a bit of expansion if you need it best of luck on this project, tumbling your own bottles is like digging, it is exciting, and making a cruddy bottle almost like new is rewarding, just don't overclean your bottles, as they will lose a lot of there charm if you do. experiment, you will learn it ok, fascinating part of our hobby, that if done correctly will always serve you well.........


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## lblackvelvet (Nov 23, 2013)

*Re:  RE: building a tumbler*

Thanks so much Andy,    My method I use now works well for me, But it takes up a lot of my free time. I am sure when I complete my tumbler I will be asking more questions. It is nice to know people like you are willing to add your expertise to educate people who are just learning the tumbling process. Thanks again for all your help!  Kevin..


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## buzzkutt033 (Nov 25, 2013)

*Re:  RE: building a tumbler*

good luck in your venture. keep the rpm speed between 60 and 80. higher for roundbottles and lower for rectangular meds. takes some time to get used to the ins and outs oftumbling. start with lower level bottles to get your feet wet. keep us posted !!! jim


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## lblackvelvet (Nov 27, 2013)

Hello Andy,   I received my motor today for my tumbler we talked about. It is larger than I expected! It is fully wired with a fused switch and all mounting hardware included. I ran it today for two hours with zero heat gain on motor housing. The variable speed goes from 0- 3450 rpm's. It also has a reverse direction switch that I think I will use to rotate the bottle direction every now and then to maybe clean embossing better as the copper and polish will impact different areas of the bottle by reversing direction, I hope!!!!  I am sending a picture of the motor and will add more pic's when my rollers get here.  Thanks,  Kevin..


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## chosi (Nov 27, 2013)

Good luck with your new motor. Just for the record though - reversing direction is important, but you don't need a reversable motor to do that.  You can simply flip the canister over.


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## lblackvelvet (Nov 27, 2013)

Thanks Chosi,  I have been researching tumbling and not once did any one mention reversing the direction! It just made sense to me that it would work better.  I wish you could have received the Lynchburg Portner bottle, I have not been able to send PM's for several Days as I tried to reach you first. Thanks, Kevin.....


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## lblackvelvet (Nov 29, 2013)

Hello,   Here is an update on my progress today, Didn't get rollers as I hoped. Built table, mounted motor and drive system and ran for a couple hours to be sure all was good. Thanks,  Kevin...


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## lblackvelvet (Dec 2, 2013)

Hello All,     Just finish making my first set of stopples, Turned out good for my first try. Now as long as they hold up? Please add any advise if you see something I could have done better. If I would have had to buy the materials for both stopples, It would have been $8.00 each.  Thanks, Kevin...  By the way I found clear PVC on line for $92.00 for 8'. I am trying white sch. 40 first, It's free for me.


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## lblackvelvet (Dec 2, 2013)

Another picture.  Thanks for any added information.


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## epackage (Dec 2, 2013)

Stopples look good Kev...


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## lblackvelvet (Dec 2, 2013)

Thanks Jim,  Now I hope they work properly! Have to leak test them before I use them.


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## chosi (Dec 2, 2013)

Your stopples look great.  Hopefully they will last a long time.  I find that the ones Jar Dr sells usually last me around 50 to 100 tumbles.  The black rubber ring that expands when you tighten it usually doesn't last as long, but it's easy to replace. $92 for 8 feet of clear PVC sounds kind of expensive, but it might be worth it.  It's really nice to be able to see inside to make sure the bottle is secure, and that you have the right amount of copper and water.  It'll become pretty mirky after a few tumbles, but you'll still be able to see into it.  The PVC canisters usually last for hundreds of tumbles.


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## lblackvelvet (Dec 3, 2013)

Hello all,  Well I received my rollers today and started on attaching them, I messed up a few times getting distance correct between rollers so that the PVC didn't make contact with other canister. I did not allow for the outside diameter, made a few changes and now have it figured out! I only installed 4 rollers today as a trial run, seems to run great. Have the RPM's at 60 and added a bottle to canister using homemade stopples, " no leaks" Bottle and canister were both filled with  rubbing compound and water to test, will let it run all night before I put the correct ingredients or shall I say ingredients of choice! I will be able to tumble 7 bottles at once soon as I test everything and add additional rollers. My total cost with 3 homemade 4'' canisters is around $275.00. I want to thank everyone in here for all there help they offered during this venture. Thanks, Kevin..


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## FitSandTic (Dec 3, 2013)

Great job Kevin, you are getting ready to have a lot of fun! There is nothing like cleaning your own finds.


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## peejrey (Dec 4, 2013)

Would you please explain what these parts are, and how they are constructed together?_Preston


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## chosi (Dec 4, 2013)

Are they called "pillow block bearings"? http://www.thebigbearingstore.com/pillowblockbearing.html


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## lblackvelvet (Dec 4, 2013)

Hello all,  First of all Thanks to Atticfinds, He is a local bottle collector and has helped me out along with Leon and Chosi !! I also picked up on a lot from Buzzkutt's thread he started here. I added my additional rollers today and  modified the ends of each roller with a large fender washer that spins if the canister works it way to the end of the roller. I think I will try to add a better roller system soon as I figure out how. That has been the most difficult part of building this tumbler. Again, thanks to everyone here for all there advise and I hope to receive my ''secret ingredients''  lmao!!  this week so I can put the tumbler to the test! Thanks,  Kevin...


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## hemihampton (Dec 4, 2013)

So far it all looks good. Let us know how it works out. LEON.


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## bamabottles (Feb 8, 2014)

hey, lblackvelvetAre you having success pushing 7 canisters with one drive bar?  I would have thought that would be too much weight and either the bar or the belt would slip?


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## lblackvelvet (Feb 9, 2014)

Hello Bamabottles,      I can tumble 2 soda bottles inside and outside with copper,  2 inside and outside with ceramic pellets, and two inside only with copper.  That is the limit without straining the motor and reducing the speed of the tumbler.  I can tumble 7 bottles if just inside only.  Going to be placing order soon for more copper wire also.  Thanks,  Kevin...


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## Stoneylaneman (Feb 10, 2014)

What did you use to make your stopples?  I am currently building a tumbler to clean my milk bottles.  I don't plan on turning any other type of bottles at this time and would like to know where to get the parts to make the stopples. Also, I am looking for some clear PVC. This post has been great in giving me some ideas for putting my tumbler together.


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## lblackvelvet (Feb 11, 2014)

Hello,  I used 4'' drain test plugs, you will need at least a 6'' if not an 8 '' to hold a quart milk bottle.  I have never tumbled a milk bottle but I would think the stopple design I made would work on a larger scale. I used a steel 2.5'' washer and welded 4-  5/16'' bolts at an angle to the washer then covered them with a rubber hose. Have you checked to see if the Jar Dr. sells them for milks ?  Good luck !   Kevin...


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## bamabottles (Feb 12, 2014)

lblackvelvet,I was wondering about pushing 7 with copper.  I think it is feasible to push at least 3, if not 4 with copper inside and outside and a couple of more with inside only.  My jar dr machine runs 3 of the 4 inch canisters on the bottom that are full, one more full 4 inch riding between and on top of #1 and #2 canister, then a 3 inch for inside only running on top and between #2 and #3 canister and yet another 3 inch running on top of those last two... the machine did not come from jar dr rigged like that... i had to put some additional rollers on the ends that extended up to keep the top ones from rolling off...  I run 4 inside and outside and 4 inside only at the same time, since i put 2 bottles inside each of the 3 inch canisters...  most people do inside and outside at the same time, and probably 80 % of the time that is a mistake because the inside is often much more stained and much harder to clean than the outside, so the outside ends up over tumbled.  I never want to loose seams or slug plate edges, so almost all of mine get inside only for 4 days with 1200 grit before i even put them in the main canisters. I would be very careful using ceramic pellets.  I would think you may not even need cutter with them... have you tried just water?  They make ceramic knife sharpeners so....   you get my point.  Mold seams can often be weak and you have to take great care not to remove any portion of them or you risk ruining a good bottle.  I have a jessup bottling pepsi slug plate that i picked up on ebay and that is a poster child for overtumbling....  pics on ebay were bad so i could not see it but i would not have purchased if i had known.  Slug plate worn down on both sides...


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## lblackvelvet (Feb 12, 2014)

Hello Bamabottles,      I have had great results using ceramic pellets for the cut tumble.  They will not give a finish tumble no matter how I try with different compounds. The best thing with the ceramic is the weight factor is much less than copper. The results with ceramic pellets tumbling to remove defects from a bottle are faster than using copper. There is no comparison to using copper for the final tumble but the weight factor allows me to tumble more bottles at the same time with less money and weight. This is my choice and many people will say it is a waste of time to use ceramic pellets and that is their opinion!!  IT WORKS FOR ME !!!    Thanks,  Kevin..


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## buzzkutt033 (Feb 13, 2014)

*i ran across this example today. * *this is NOT what a tumbled bottle should look like....* *http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vivid-Deep-Cobalt-Blue-KNICKERBOCKE-178-50-/171234929324?_trksid=p2047675.l4066#ht_897wt_900* foot of snow today and now we're getting a nice coating of freezing rain..... jim


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## hemihampton (Feb 14, 2014)

Looks like top half of bottle got overtumbled? LEON.


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## lblackvelvet (Feb 14, 2014)

What would cause the top half to be over tumbled ?   Thanks,  Kevin...


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## andy volkerts (Feb 15, 2014)

Hello Kevin. Your tumbler sounds like it works great! congrats on the stopples, that's how I made mine, the only problem is the bolts and washer rust some with use, but the copper keeps them rather clean. the whole soda is overpolished, not just the top. Look at how smooth and glossy it is, wasn't that shiny new. And the embossing has been flattened out by the wearing of the medium. ruined, but a lot of collectors think wow what a clean shiny bottle, BUT it has no character or charm, may have well have been made yesterday, and looks the part don't ya think...........Andy


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## chosi (Feb 15, 2014)

I agree that bottle looks over-tumbled.But I would have to see a "before" photo before blaming the tumbler.  I've dug bottles out of the ground that had very weak embossing like that bottle has.  I assume this is just the way some bottles were made, which I've heard referred to as a "weak strike".  I guess that means not enough glass flowed into the lettering area of the mold when the bottle was made. So this bottle may have started out with weak embossing and no case wear, in which case all the tumbler is guilty of is making it a little too shiny.


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## buzzkutt033 (Feb 15, 2014)

hey Mike. you certainly are making a valid point and you may be correct. it has however, all the earmarks of an overtumbled soda.i look for the rounding off of the embossing which i see in that example. and the sheen of the glass is " off ".i have an easy rule of thumb. i can always put it back in the cannister for a day or two, but once the glass is cut off, it's gone forever. as i gained experience, i became aware of different ways to deal with different types of issues with glass. not all 19th century glass is created equal. some is harder and some is more porous etc. using a trained pro is always a good option for cleaning the top shelf stuff.....


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## hemihampton (Feb 16, 2014)

I've dug some bottles with very weak embossing. I got a nice 1890's blob A. Funke Detroit clear quart size soda bottle I dug recently, I wanted to tumble it but the embossing is so very weak that no way I could ever tumble it with out being accused of overtumbling it, looks overtumbled out of the ground. LEON. P.S. Some pics below.


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