# My Pet Peeves with the Bottle Hobby



## NyDigger1 (Jul 10, 2012)

Recently there have been quite a few, "discussions" on topics relating to NYC bottles on the forums, and even though Im only 18, ive been collecting for 4 years and currently run the largest NYC bottle database. I dont understand why some people who dont even collect NYC bottles wont take a word of my advice, even when they ask for it, and start arguing over price, condition, etc, etc, completely ignoring me, and thinking that i dont know squat. The fact that I am younger does not mean that I know "less" than any other collector, especially when it comes to NYC bottles and their details.

 Also, I hate that when I ask people from clubs in NYC to go digging with them in the city or to join the club they say that im too young, and inexperienced, while at the same time they say that they need new, young blood to keep the hobby going.

 Also, What defines a bottle as mint?!

 Ive always been told that the structure of the bottle (no dings, chips, cracks, flakes, flea bites, etc, etc, etc) always determined whether it was mint or not. Others have told me that staining, iridescence, and "the area from which it was dug", outhouse, dump, or found in an attic, also adds to the question of it being mint or not. My response, "If you dont like stains or iridescence, put it in CLR ad it will come right off, trust me ive done it before."

 Ive had bottes returned to me on Ebay because the Bottle was "Dirty". Well of course it is! Most are dug! Even the ones you buy at flea markets or antique shops. I dont understand why people wont fully read the description of a listing as it says it on the third or fourth line, "This is a Dug Bottle"

 Thoughts? Im sorry I had to put this rant up but ive had enough of being ignored and belittled.


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## cyberdigger (Jul 10, 2012)

I have all those same pet peeves too.. I want everyone to think I am the king of bottles and bring me their offerings, lay them before me, and pay homage, and they better consider my sick bottles to be 'river mint' .. and this has nothing to do with age, I'm 43 and I expect the same adulation..  ..genuflect and sell cheap to your master!!!


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 11, 2012)

LOL []

 but seriously, im tired of people treating me like I dont know anything about bottles, especially coming from someone who lives on the other side of the U.S. who only "happens" to have two or three nyc bottles.


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

It's not about what you know about bottles, it's about what you don't know about people.. you'll figure it out eventually.. []


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## tigue710 (Jul 11, 2012)

mint means found inside without any type of staining, damage... anything.  Like the day it was made.  Its a terrible word to use when describing a dug bottle.

 As for the rest I'll say it, your heads a little to big.  I've collected and been very active in the hobby for 25 years and I dont know squat.  Have you looked at or seen any of the other databases on bottles before you tote your own as the largest?  Some of them have been being added to for 30 years, and are very large.  As for digging with people most people dont want to share where they dig and already have a large crew they dig with.  Who wants to take someone digging and show them the ropes only to create more competition for themselves?  Gotta have patience and pay your dues...


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 11, 2012)

thats a little mean on your part, maybe you should have read it more clearly, "Largest NYC bottle database"

 Im talking about Nyc bottles only... I know there are larger databases but mine is the largest for Nyc bottles ONLY.

 I study every bottle I have, look up every bit of history I can find, and post it on there, hell I can tell you the history of almost any Nyc bottle (provided ive seen it before) on the spot. And my deal is that people tell me that I dont know anything about, NYC. There are still alot of things i dont know, and thats true, but i sure as hell know more about nyc bottles than the next guy.

 And im sorry if you find taking others with you dump digging as competition. If other people consider it as competition they shouldnt post on their website: "contact us for digging / club joining info"

 I was turned down by clubs that advertise on the internet to join them, simply because im too young and "inexperience" in their minds. Hell if I never go Ill never gain that experience.

 You only have that digging view since you have been collecting for the past 25 years. I live in NYC, virtually every dump has been picked out, or covered over, and they wont let just anyone into a construction site for bottles, even though my dad worked in construction for 15 years, he worked on sites in the 90s that (if I was old enough and collected bottles back then) would have amounted to a huge collection.

 Hell even 10 years ago you could still find decent stuff in Staten Island, northen Bronx, southern Bronx, and downtown Brooklyn, not any more unless its a privy.

 You have had the experiences that I wish every day I could live, hell I have one dump thats 200 miles away that I can only go to 3-4 times a year. Put yourself in my shoes for a few minutes before you say that my heads a little big.


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## TJSJHART (Jul 11, 2012)

EXCUSE ME...............YOU  ALL KNOW I JUST LOVE THIS PLACE....EVERYONE ..AND I MEAN EVERYONE GETS  IN THEIR LITTLE MOODS EVERY NOW AND THEN AND HAS THEIR BAD DAYS...WEEKS AND WEEKENDS...IT TAKES ONE NEWBIE OR OR A ONE TIME POSTER THAT  WANTS THE VALUE OF A SINGLE FIND TO SET THEM UP FOR LIFE.. IT'S EITHER AN ATTIC FIND OR   A " MY DADDY HAD THIS BOTTLE SINCE I WAS KNEE HIGH TO A COW'S UTTER "    OOHH YEAH AND I AM THE THE KING OF BOTTLES AND YOU ALL ARE BEHIND ON THE MONTHY OFFERING . SO IT IS WRITTEN SO SHALL IT BE....[8|][8|][][]


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## OsiaBoyce (Jul 11, 2012)

The largest city in America.

 Collecting four years.

 Knows as much as ANY collector.

 I'm 18.

 I belive it.


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 11, 2012)

ok


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## AntiqueMeds (Jul 11, 2012)

> currently run the largest NYC bottle database


 
 Do you have a web site or blog about NYC bottles?
 Post something about uncommon NYC patent medicines.
 I would be interested in reading it.
 The number of patent medicines coming out of that city even in the 1840s/1850s was huge.
 I expect there are lots that havent even been documented yet.


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 http://mikesbottleroom.weebly.com/

 Its a website photo database []

 for now im focusing on Blobs, I put the medicine pictures that I have (except pontils, only got 3 of them, will put them up in the next 10 minutes) up there but I havent put the info yet, im always expanding the website so it could take a while. Ive just finished photographing the last of my nyc bottles today so after I put those up I will start on the patents for blobs, then medicines, it just might take a while.


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 also 99% of the bottles I have up there are 1890s


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## AntiqueMeds (Jul 11, 2012)

Nice website.  I like that Currie bottle. I have only seen a couple and never with labels.
 Nothing wrong with 1890 bottles. Some of the most interesting patent medicines were made in the 1890s especially cures.
 You should add your website address to you forum signature.


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## div2roty (Jul 11, 2012)

I feel like your post is somewhat directed at me because I am the most recent person to offer you NYC bottles (and three too, just like your post mentions), so I will respond.  

 It looks like three points in your first post.  Mint is a word that should rarely, if ever, be used to describe a bottle.  There is nothing wrong with a dug bottle, and some can be rinsed and appear almost mint, but a dug bottle with stain should never be described as mint.  

 Bottle clubs are interesting, often how the club describes itself and how individual members act are quite different.  I will say that most diggers are very secretive about their spots.  Keep searching and asking around and you'll find someone good to dig with.  It can be very hard to break into a crew, however, it should be easier if you have a location to share with them (just make sure that they'll share one with you in return).  

 Finally, most people will not trust someone to value something for them and then try to buy it at the same value.  For instance if someone walks into my antique store with something they want appraised and I say it is worth $100 and I'll give them $100, they will and should be skeptical.  Now it is great that you have a system for buying NYC bottles, and by all means you should stick to what you think they are worth, however, not everyone has to agree with that pricing system, especially those selling.

 People do tend to dismiss young people, but that is true about all walks of life, not just bottle collecting.  I'm 31 and have owned my own antique store for 8 years.  I probably look like I'm in my mid 20s and looked younger when I first opened the store.  Certain customers and other sellers have always dismissed me, treated me poorly or ignored me.  It has been extremely frustrating, but in the end it has hurt them more than me.  Getting upset is fine, ranting is even fine, but I wouldn't expect it to change, just keep collecting what you want and people will soon respect that.  However, "knowing" more about NYC bottles still doesn't mean people have to agree with your assessment of their bottles and sell them to you at your price.  

 Also, you need to remember that while ebay will let users search for completed auctions for the last few weeks, there are numerous programs that allow users to track internet sales going back years.  Surprising, lots of those searches will yield results that disagree with your pricing system of NYC bottles.


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## mtfdfire22 (Jul 11, 2012)

GET USED TO IT! your a young digger. ive gone through the same thing for the past few years. im now 24 and i will be bold and cocky by saying if their is a privy i will find it, if their is a good bottle i know it and if someone wants to belittle me or talk down to me so be it. I have bought, sold and dug one of a kind bottles that stunned people because they had never seen one even though they have been doing this for 50 years. You must prove yourself. I think i have now but it took a while. Am i more mature than most 24 year olds? yes. Do i have knowledge and experience in certain things that most dont? yes. but i dont get a big head about it and show my anger because these people who are "talking down to you" are the same people who teach you how to locate and dig a privy and they have set the standard for all values and rarity on your bottles.

  Did you decide what the price of New York bottles was going to be or was it the people collecting and selling before you who set the standard? You wont pay $100.00 for a $5.00 bottle and the reason is because someone before you were even born set a standard for MOST bottles. 

  i had an argument with a 60 year old gentleman at a bottle show who insisted a baltimore loop seal used the same enclosure as a blob lightning stopper beer. while some bottlers re-used loop seal bottles with lightning stoppers in them that was NOT the original stopper for the bottle. He was none to smart and set in his ways, unfortunately for him, he still believes he is right and the stupid 24 year old kid is wrong. i deal with it because i have a damn nice selection that i know almost everything about. i research maps, directories, advertisements, and bottle makers for each and every bottle that goes on my shelf. 

   dont get a big head yet because one of these people you think talk down to you may teach you something very valuable in the end.


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  div2roty
> 
> I feel like your post is somewhat directed at me because I am the most recent person to offer you NYC bottles (and three too, just like your post mentions), so I will respond.
> 
> ...


 

 first off, no it is not directed towards you, ive had 3 people approach me via my website, and two people on ebay

 Heres one of the things that happened, I was speaking to a woman who was listing nyc bottles. I asked a question about one and she noticed that I was the same person from the website (as she used it to add some info to her listings). So she told me she has 200 nyc blobs and that she doesnt know anything about them, to "tell her" price wise on average how much she should sell for, history of a few that she listed. I helped out, told her exactly what i listed in the Coney Island thread at the end. So she asked what bottles I was looking for, and amazingly she had one of the three bottles ive been looking for for years. I said yes, I would like to purchase it. This was her next message:

 Since you want it its obviously worth more than $15, hows $25 + $8 shipping? I said no, she listed it, and never got back to me after that, never gave me or my website credit in the listing after I had asked.


 One of the other things, I got a message on my website (through my youtube channel) from some 14 year old kid telling me that he has a bottle that could be rare from nyc, (Eurich and Heller, "VERY COMMON"). I told him, its a $10 bottle, had a bunch of them, sold most of them for that price.
 He literally cursed me out because he paid $50 at a flea market for it. He then spammed my inbox until I had the opportunity to block him from anything further.

 Thats what drives me crazy, people come to me for help and then say I dont know squat


 The bottle club aspect.... Its hard to share a dump when I live in the middle of nyc and there are none left, ive got nothing to share except a dump thats 200 miles away in the middle of nowhere that no one wants to drive out to because the stuff there isnt old enough (1910s-1920s)

 The ebay assessment, that is true, many listings have ended for more than what I have said. But many of those people have deep pockets and just want it really badly. for example, i had a brown skull/crossbones poison listed for $10, it ended for $45. I then listed a pair of the same bottle big/small two days later starting at $10 as well, it only sold for $21. Ebay is a good place to get a deal on a few bottles, being very selective and knowing how much is too much when bidding, but most are blown fully out of proportion (I sold two meds with heavily chipped necks and bases for $80! They arent even that rare).


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  mtfdfire22
> 
> GET USED TO IT! your a young digger. ive gone through the same thing for the past few years. im now 24 and i will be bold and cocky by saying if their is a privy i will find it, if their is a good bottle i know it and if someone wants to belittle me or talk down to me so be it. I have bought, sold and dug one of a kind bottles that stunned people because they had never seen one even though they have been doing this for 50 years. You must prove yourself. I think i have now but it took a while. Am i more mature than most 24 year olds? yes. Do i have knowledge and experience in certain things that most dont? yes. but i dont get a big head about it and show my anger because these people who are "talking down to you" are the same people who teach you how to locate and dig a privy and they have set the standard for all values and rarity on your bottles.
> 
> ...


 

 You are right on all of your aspects but one, pricing standards.

 I use that standard as I have experienced it while buying / selling nyc bottles, and because it was passed down from two of the biggest diggers from New York State when I asked about it. Its not my standards, its theirs, and Ill take their word for it because they have been doing it for over 40 years each with great success.


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## AntiqueMeds (Jul 11, 2012)

> Thats what drives me crazy, people come to me for help and then say I dont know squat


 

 welcome to the real world[]
 YOu will get this when you are 52 yrs old too , get used to it.
 If you get irratated by every nut out there you will go crazy before you reach 21.

 I recommend reading What Do You Care What Other People Think?  by Richard Feynman
 He had a great attitude and was also a New Yorker...
 http://www.amazon.com/What-Care-Other-People-Think/dp/0393320928


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## tigue710 (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  NyDigger1
> 
> thats a little mean on your part, maybe you should have read it more clearly, "Largest NYC bottle database"
> 
> ...


 

   I stand by what I said, but I feel your pain too.  Someday you will look back and say "dang my head was big", I know I do looking back at when I was 18.  Its a coming of age thing we all go through.  I'm not intending to be mean, Im just a little gruff.  I was talking about NYC databases, I know the clubs have them and a few of the big time privy diggers do as well.  These have been being put together for years and years and years.  Your data base is excellent, and your love and enthusiasm of the hobby apparent, commendable, and respectable, but it takes more then 4 years to put together the most comprehensive guide on NYC bottles when others have been working on them 10 times longer.  Remember that most of this stuff isnt on the internet.

   I dont find taking other people digging as competition, I take a lot of people digging, but sometimes it back fires and you end up showing someone where and how you dig only to have them come in behind you and dig all your spots out, it sucks.  Ive spent money, time and expend numerous resources to dig some spots and then someone just takes all that hard work from you because you took them with you.  It sucks, and most diggers have been through it and are very cautious about who they take digging.  Thats what I mean by paying your dues, you gotta show your not a scab, and willing to put in the work and are capable of it.  I've lived in Cali three years now and still haven't been invited on a dig yet!

   Im sorry to say but there is an abundance of digging to do in and around NYC, I would give a limb to live there and dig.  Dont give up, there's stuff out there, I get discouraged all the time too.

 As for those crazy's your talking about farther down this post you gotta ignore those people...


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## druggistnut (Jul 11, 2012)

>Since you want it its obviously worth more than $15, hows $25 + $8 shipping? I said no, she listed it, and never got back to me after that,<<

 I cannot begin to tell you how many bottles I have added to my collection that I KNOW I paid too much for. There is no way that I will dig every hutch or druggist bottle from Michigan.

 If you have been looking for a certain bottle for "years," then you have to consider the fact that you have not seen one before, and the possibility that you will not, again.  Take the time the proprietor was in business, as your #1 consideration. If he/she was in business for 5 years, odds are that you will find another one. They were only selling for one year?  Perhaps they only ordered a couple gross of the bottle. You should pay what the person is asking, if haggling isn't allowed.  You can always come up with money, but how about that bottle?

 It took me over 10 years to earn the trust of old timers in my bottle club, to the point they would tell me about "old" dumps. There are a couple who are just opening up, years later.
 Quit asking for a while.  Try posting on Craigs list that you are looking for old places to dig bottles. Nic (mtfd222) has gotten some really great dig locations by doing this.

 We all commend you on all the time/effort you have put in to your research and the web site.
 It shows that you have a genuine interest in the HOBBY and are not self-serving.  People will recognize that and will eventually come to you for advice.  

 Young people generally are too "energetic" for older diggers (I mean they move too much, talk too much and NOT listen enough).
 Make sure you do more of the latter (listening) and you can eventually command the respect that someone like Matt (AntiqueMeds) does now, after his many years of quietly doing what he does best.
 Best of luck, Michael. 
 I might add, think about letting people call you Mike. It doesn't sound as pretentious and comes easier to peoples lips.  <smile>
 Bill


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## bostaurus (Jul 11, 2012)

It is not just youngsters...this is a very male dominated hobby.  There are some in the hobby that think, as a woman, you don't know what you are talking about.  You  have to stand your ground, not get an attitude, and just smile.  Those kind of folks will usually come around once you prove yourself....and let's face it..there is a lot of information and lots of glass out there and no one knows it all.


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## AntiqueMeds (Jul 11, 2012)

> this is a very male dominated hobby


 
 That's not true... be quiet and put your burka back on woman before we stone you for your insolance[]

 so is it the dirty bottles in the house thing that turns off women?
 I know several women bottle collectors but the hard core collectors seem to be mostly men.


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't think "mint" should EVER be used. 
 You'd never find a true numismatic use it for a coin. Even an un-circulated coin isn't mint. The handler or just dropping in with all the other coins as they are made will leave a mark.
 The same goes for anything in the collectible field and could also be said of everything else.
 Maybe the word itself shouldn't exist except for the plant. I'll allow that. [][]


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

Agreed ..anyway, bottles were not minted, they were blown.. so "blown" condition would make more sense.. []


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 11, 2012)

> Agreed ..anyway, bottles were not minted, they were blown.. so "blown" condition would make more sense..


Would you say the same of a hand struck coin?? It's a rather similar kind of thing I think.


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

I don't know garbledygook about coins.. it's fun to put them on the train tracks though..


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## AntiqueMeds (Jul 11, 2012)

so how do you classify a bottle with a pontil mark chip?

 it is "as made" but it is also damaged


 as to coins, the US mint had a goal of perfection.
 Thus any 'errors' were carefully avoided.
 Glass houses didnt quite hold the same ideals.
 If it could hold water it probably went out the door...


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## Wheelah23 (Jul 11, 2012)

To a remarkable extent, I haven't experienced any age prejudice... Additionally, I think I've been blessed with very kind digging friends... Everyone at the bottle club I'm a member of has been very respectful of me, and never preachy in the knowledge they share with me. I think the best thing you can do is just to exhude an aura of confidence, and never let someone think they're better than you. Never show deference, but you do have to be willing to learn. And you have to accept that in some cases, elders WILL be more knowledgeable than you. In the few years you and I have been collecting, there's NO WAY we could've accumulated more knowledge than a 30 year veteran in our respective fields of collecting interest. It's good to show your knowledge when you can, but don't act like you know everything.


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 11, 2012)

> Maybe the word itself shouldn't exist except for the plant. I'll allow that. [][]


Picking at those knits aside, I still go along with my above statement. Nothing of any age can remain in perfect condition which the term sort of implies.
 Maybe it's just something left to interpretation but I still think the word should be left out as part of a description. If a box happens to be found at an old, undiscovered glass factory and still packed in straw, maybe?


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## RICKJJ59W (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> I don't think "mint" should EVER be used.
> You'd never find a true numismatic use it for a coin. Even an un-circulated coin isn't mint. The handler or just dropping in with all the other coins as they are made will leave a mark.
> ...


 
 Here is a dark Mint Mint dug Seitz & Bro for ya []  and I must say it is mint,I drank out of it a few times so it has to be mint. Did you say mint? []


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## Wheelah23 (Jul 11, 2012)

A couple other things. Like mtdfire says, some old timers can be extremely stubborn in their belief in erroneous knowledge. For example, an otherwise very knowledgeable member of my club was selling me a medicine bottle, and was insisting that it dates to before 1900. It was a BIM medicine bottle with a reinforced lip, and clearly dated from 1910 to 1920. But the dude dogmatically believed that if a bottle is BIM, it is from before 1900. I don't know whether he wouldn't listen to me because I'm young or because that's how he is, but he would not budge from that date. It's a minor thing but I thought it amusing that a guy collecting bottles for 30-40 years was completely wrong about a bottle like that. 

 And about mint bottles. I do think a dug bottle can be mint, as I've dug bottles which I think the term "attic mint" could be applied to if someone didn't know I dug them. But they ABSOLUTELY cannot be stained if that term is to be used. Mint means it's as shiny and clean as the day it was made, and with no damage from use or from being buried. So a mint bottle usually hasn't been buried, but it can as long as there's ABSOLUTELY no evidence of it having been buried. Of course the definition of "mint" can change from person to person, leading to discrepancies. I've been pretty p'ed off a couple times when I've expected a mint bottle and then end up getting something that's clearly not mint.


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## RICKJJ59W (Jul 11, 2012)

Minty Fresh []


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## RICKJJ59W (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> It's not about what you know about bottles, it's about what you don't know about people.. you'll figure it out eventually.. []


 

 That's what the man said.[]


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## AntiqueMeds (Jul 11, 2012)

> Mint Mint dug Seitz


 
 I detect a flaw on your so called minty mint bottle
 I suspect it was gouged by one of your incisors while your were drinking out of it[]


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 11, 2012)

Attic mint is subjective also without a proper description. It does at least shows that it changed hands at least 4 or 5 times before it ended up in the attic.
 Minty fresh, sure why not. [][] I'll go with that.


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 And it's true.. aside from all the weird personality traits we all have, a bottle in the hand of one person might easily be gotten as a gift, while the same bottle in different hands might be an ultra-prized, precious belonging.. antique bottles are basically historical artifacts, no MSRP sticker.. prices of bottles can't be standardized. 
 Collecting NYC bottles is probably among the most challenging of all bottle endeavors.. I can't possibly imagine getting to the point ..in this lifetime.. of having what 25-30,000 bottles and still hunting for those last few elusive one-knowns..  my gig is Long Branch NJ, where around a hundred bottlers had operations, maybe more.. I still need specimens from about 30 known LB companies, and it's getting to the point where $100 for an aqua blob I don't have is not unreasonable to me. Then again, one might fall in my lap tomorrow, you never know..


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## mtfdfire22 (Jul 11, 2012)

a hundred bucks for a blob beer! sign me up. Thats cheap around here. Decent blobs from my area go for $150-$500 bucks. the last 3 blobs i sold were $100.00, $400.00, and $750.00. The last ones i bought were between $100-$300 each.


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

You are hereby officially signed up as a Long Branch collector! []  I will hook you up..!


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## bostaurus (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Sorry,,, my burka was in the wash today []  
 I don't know...maybe it could be the clutter.  I wouldn't think so though.  I have been in some very cluttered homes and cluttered because of the wife's collecting.  
 Of course it is a generalization but women collectors tend to collect things that they can rationalize as "things for the house"...or clothes.  I am thinking of collectors statues (Precious Moments, etc), collectors plates for the walls, etc.    I admit to sometimes justifying buying a bottle becuase it will look nice in a certian place or I could use it to store things.  
 Personally what fascinates me is the history and how they were made along with the beauty of the glass.  Usually when a female friend or relative picks up one of my bottles and comments on how nice it is, I begin to tell them about it and their eyes glaze over.....many of the guys have the same reaction.
 Maybe we bottle collectors are just a weird bunch[8|]


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

Great point there Mel.. how just by being bottle collectors we are *all* considered weird in this day & age.. !


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## RICKJJ59W (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That is a very fine flaw,it is smooth so it was done in the molding process . No stains. So I say its minty fresh []


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## bottlekid76 (Jul 11, 2012)

Attics get all the glory, what about basements and in walls? [8D]

 ~Tim


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## AntiqueMeds (Jul 11, 2012)

I prefer basement mint bottles...


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

I'm strictly wall mints...


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## blobbottlebob (Jul 11, 2012)

This was very entertaining. Thanks everyone for the posts. Chuck - I hope I find a bottle you need. It's yours is a new york minute. Melinda, I love your observation that people's 'eyes glaze over' when you talk about bottles. It's good to notice that before it's too late and stop talking immediately. I've see it myself many times. I often warn people not to get me started . . .

 Matt, outside of your misogynistic propensities, I find that you are often helpful and insightful.[]


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## tigue710 (Jul 11, 2012)

Im a lover not a fighter, so you must be talking to the other Matt...

 I only go for barn rafter mint, its the best flavor, and often comes with critter poo to boot!


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## cyberdigger (Jul 11, 2012)

Tigue, that'd be guano mint.. [8D]

 Hello Bob!! I'd love to see you get started... about bottles... []


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## madpaddla (Jul 11, 2012)

Hello Mike,

 And welcome to the forum.  Defusing the topic would assist in its discussion.  I was once a newbie to the bottle world and this forum.  Learned a ton on here and from the bottle world.  Sorry, I was not implying that you were a newbie.  Couple thoughts for you.

 Regarding Mint:  It is my believe that there never is a Mint bottle.  Take for instance an early 1860 pontil puff.  A bottle found in an attic with no contents and some base wear would still not be mint b/c of the base wear.  But the same tumbled puff would not be mint because it was altered.  Just my opinion.

 About ebay:  Love it or leave it.  They charge fees and we have to accept it.  I always describe my listings having: Chips, Dings, Cracks, Stain and Cloudy.  I guess I should also involve scratches.  To help with the returned bottles, try to over describe the condition.

 Digging in the NYC:  Bravo !  Much respect.  Great bottles out of there and real hard to come by.  About the digging clubs, etc.  The more you dig the more you know.  Chris from Baltimore says something so very true "Hours of research, digging and hard work will find you great bottles.  But that gratitude you get from finding a good bottle is worth more than the hard work.  Get digging"

 Knowledge:  Ha everyone is a genius. []  American bottles date from 1700's to present day.  No one knows everything but everyone knows something.  As bottle collectors we are always learning.  Always.  No one ever knows everything.

 About the hobby:  I tell my wife that a bottle is worth $100.  But then  I buy the same bottle for $70 the next week.  She tells me "Bottle prices are like stocks.  Never the same price.  Just a range"

 Great to have ya here on the forum.  And I have meet some of these members here on the forum.  Great folks.  Tigue although tough tells it like it is 100%.  And if you ever met him in person I bet you would enjoy his company.

 Madpaddla


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## RICKJJ59W (Jul 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I'm strictly wall mints...


 

 I my self like ----------------


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 12, 2012)

To everyone, i never said I know everything, I only said that I know more about New York City Bottles than the next guy [:'(]


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## ktbi (Jul 12, 2012)

May not agree with you, but everyone knows what you mean when you describe a bottle as mint. I always liked the term 'just missed being pontil!'. Do he mean the guy holding the rod had bad aim, or maybe the bottle isn't as old as he wanted. I agree with an earlier posted who advised you to over describe. BTW NYDigger, I've been doing this 40+ years and I would listen to you all day. You have a mountain of knowledge that I just don't have. keep it up.  Ron


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## Penn Digger (Jul 12, 2012)

NyDigger1 (Mike) might be a young guy, but he is certainly doing a very historically honorable thing.  Something to be said for a man his age putting together a database or catalog of blobs from the largest city in America!  I am a local history nut myself, but sure as hell wasn't at his age.  When I was his age I was in college and running the streets of NYC.  Never thought about history let alone bottles.  Been digging for 15+ years now back here in PA.  Only got hard core on the locals the last 6 or 7 years.  I do have the largest local collection known.  Have dug most, bought some, been gifted a few, and even been death bed gifted an only one known because folks have recognized my passion for locals and preserving local history.

 I sold a bizarre NYC blob to Mike before I realized his passion for his locals.  I will be sending him another at no charge soon.  Give the guy a break and help him out with the good deed he is doing.  We were all his age once.

 PD


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 12, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  ktbi
> 
> May not agree with you, but everyone knows what you mean when you describe a bottle as mint. I always liked the term 'just missed being pontil!'. Do he mean the guy holding the rod had bad aim, or maybe the bottle isn't as old as he wanted. I agree with an earlier posted who advised you to over describe. BTW NYDigger, I've been doing this 40+ years and I would listen to you all day. You have a mountain of knowledge that I just don't have. keep it up.  Ron


 
 thanks alot for the kind words, its good to know that there are some people interested in what I do =]


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## NyDigger1 (Jul 12, 2012)

Penn, thanks for the kind words =]. You have been one of the nicest people ive had the pleasure to talk to within the whole hobby. If I ever find a dump here in Nyc youll be first on the scene with me []


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## Penn Digger (Jul 12, 2012)

Deal!  Now go find a good dump up in the north end of da Bronx.

 PD


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## RICKJJ59W (Jul 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  NyDigger1
> 
> Penn, thanks for the kind words =]. You have been one of the nicest people ive had the pleasure to talk to within the whole hobby. If I ever find a dump here in Nyc youll be first on the scene with me []


 
 I met the man in person. DO NOT DIG ALONE WITH HIM. That's all I am saying.


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## Penn Digger (Jul 18, 2012)

Real nice Rickster[8D]  Looking forward to seeing you Sunday.  Don't worry, I won't bring my ax to your house.


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## JOETHECROW (Jul 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL: RICKJJ59W
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 [sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]


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## Penn Digger (Jul 19, 2012)

Thanks to you too Joe!

 PD


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## JOETHECROW (Jul 19, 2012)

[]  []  []


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## mctaggart67 (Jul 21, 2012)

Mike:

 You bring up some important issues. Unfortunately, they do not have easy or instant resolutions:


 1] Being a young collector and wanting greater respect for your knowledge

 Iâ€™ve been there, too, and, as someone has already mentioned, accomplishing things over time is the only way you can build a reputation in any field. Keep doing what youâ€™re doing and youâ€™ll be okay. I have an important piece of cautionary advice for you, though. Always keep in mind that knowledge is far from being absolute, and thinking that you know more than the next guy, as you say, might give you a bit of trouble.

 The best lesson I ever learned in university was, that as much as you may know about a given topic, there will always be limits on what you know. In our hobby, you may well know more about a type of bottle from a specific place â€“ and enjoy a good reputation for that â€“ but your knowledge has its limits. Say, for example, youâ€™ve got a drugstore bottle. Based on your research, you know when the store operated, who operated it, when the bottle was made, where it was made, and so on. However, the key phrase here is â€œbased on your research.â€ Somebody else could conduct his/her own research, using sources you have not consulted, and thus acquire knowledge you donâ€™t have. If youâ€™re not open to listening to what others have to offer â€“ and I donâ€™t think youâ€™re obtuse like this â€“ youâ€™ll lose out on two levels: 1) youâ€™ll miss out on learning, which is one of the greatest joys in our hobby, and 2) youâ€™ll miss out on the socially engaging positive of sharing information, which is another of the greatest joys in our hobby.

 All of this being said, by coming off as none-too-modest in this forum â€“ which I submit youâ€™ve done â€“ others may not even bother sharing with you, because few want to deal with arrogance. Make sure you donâ€™t lose out on this point.


 2] Pricing bottles for others and then getting â€œburnedâ€

 My best guess is that every bottle collector has suffered this. Itâ€™s a tough call. You want a bottle, but its owner wants you to appraise it. What do you do? Low-ball the owner and you might insult him/her out of selling the bottle to you. Make a high offer and you might be faced with the ownerâ€™s suspicion that youâ€™ve low-balled, so they ask for much more than your appraisal amount, thus putting the bottle out of range.

 Thereâ€™s no failsafe solution to this type of misery, but a way to minimize your suffering is to gauge your sellers before even talking price. If a seller is an inherently suspicious type, then you may not do any better than leaving him/her with your appraisal and offer and then inviting the seller to get back to you if the bottle doesnâ€™t sell to someone else at a higher price. Donâ€™t embarrass the seller while doing this. So missives in the vein of â€œWell, your price expectation is, frankly, moronic, so when you finally figure this out, get back to me.â€ are not called for. Try instead, â€œWell, I feel Iâ€™ve given you a fair offer, but I appreciate that you wish to try at a higher price. If things donâ€™t work out elsewhere, Iâ€™d be happy to stand by my offer in future.â€


 3] Wanting to go on digs with others and joining clubs

 Diggers can be very protective of their turf, so donâ€™t push it â€“ theyâ€™ll only shut down on you. Give it time, deal with them honourably and mannerly, and eventually you may get an invitation. Another route is to use your research skills, find your own dig sites, and then be the first to invite others, with the polite insistence on future reciprocation.

 If a club bars you from joining, for whatever reason, then you donâ€™t want to belong. Enough said.

 4] Condition

 Itâ€™s not easy putting stock in othersâ€™ assessments about condition, especially the one called â€œmint.â€ Iâ€™ve bought bottles described online as â€œmintâ€ and received bottles with chips and cracks (not pictured, of course). When faced with this, I ask for a partial refund and then make a note to myself to avoid the seller in future. When it comes to selling online, describe, describe, describe, photograph, photograph, photograph. Be clear and hold nothing back. You may lose a sale or two or may sell at a lower than hoped for price, but this is all for the short-term. However, by describing accurately, youâ€™re building a strong reputation over the long-term (see #1 above), and this has definite selling advantages, since youâ€™ll be known as an honest dealer, which will greatly widen your pool of buyers. If you donâ€™t believe this, then examine the histories of auction houses that sell well online. The ones that describe accurately are the ones that last, and the only way to last in business is through sales.

 To return directly back to condition, I think the only way to overcome miscommunications is to buy/sell/trade in person. Of course, this brings us back to enjoying positive social interaction, too.


 5] Inviting others to discuss their collecting pet peeves

 The collecting world is filled with all sorts of niggling problems. For me, one rises to the top, and this is the tendency to overestimate the age of the bottles we collect. I know this has already been mentioned, but it drives me nuts when people define BIM as pre-1900. Up here in Canada, a great deal of our collectible BIM drugstore and poison bottles are identified with the various trademarks of Torontoâ€™s Richards Glass Company Limited, â€œRIGOâ€ being the most prominent of these trademarks. This company was chartered in 1912, so, unless the realm of logic has changed in paranormal ways, nothing bearing this firmâ€™s trademarks can be from before 1912. Yet, people routinely date RIGO bottles from the 1880s or 1890s. Grrrrr!!!

 But I donâ€™t want to end on this sour note, because Iâ€™ve found that the positives in our wonderful hobby far outweigh the negatives.


 Stay collecting, my friends!


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## justanolddigger (Jul 21, 2012)

Great post Glen, well thought out and expressed.


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## cyberdigger (Jul 21, 2012)

Agreed, that was an excellent post, 100% wisdom!


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## mctaggart67 (Jul 25, 2012)

Thanks for the kind words.


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## blobbottlebob (Jul 25, 2012)

I concur. Nicely done McTaggert.


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## JOETHECROW (Jul 26, 2012)

> Nicely done McTaggert.


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