# Label Over Label I Want to Remove????



## Robby Raccoon (Dec 20, 2017)

Today I picked up a labeled bottle because there is clearly another intact (though heavily stained) label underneath the visible one. 

I want to remove the current label without damaging either of them, for I'm very curious about what was in the bottle (empontiled European apothecary bottle with Michigan druggist label currently present). It appears to have been added many decades ago (it says and smells like Turpentine). 

So is the best route for removal to just soak it in cold water? Again: I don't want either damaged. I just want to know what the older label says.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 20, 2017)

Hmm that's a tough one.  How much of the older label is visible?  Could you post a photo?


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## Robby Raccoon (Dec 21, 2017)

The photos wouldn't turn out for showing that it's entirely there (held up to a bright light, you can see only a tiny bit is missing from the label beneath as it otherwise is a dark rectangle under the other label except where they don't over-lap. Looking through the inside, too, shows it's there.)


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 21, 2017)

Oh yeah hmm that's a tough one.  One thing I might suggest is cleaning out the inside of the bottle as best you can and then holding it up to the brightest light you can find.  

So, my theory about this one is that the older label might not actually be much older at all.  I'm guessing that this was a bottle kept in storage at the back of the drug store for dispensing turpentine, and they had a similar label which got too stained to read so they put another one on top of it.  They'd look a bit different because one was an earlier generation of slightly different labels.


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## Robby Raccoon (Dec 22, 2017)

I tried with the brightest light, it it's too think of paper to read it. I had a similar thought and then wondered if maybe it was a wholesaler label, in which the Allegan druggist put his label over it at some point. I'm just really curious to find out what it says. Who knows how long it's been covered up, not seen in 90+ years.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 23, 2017)

I'm thinking it's probably not a wholesaler label because I don't think that bottle was sold with contents in it.  I think it was sold as refillable equipment for a drug store and had some sort of glass stopper.  I think it would only be likely to have a particularly different label if it had been bought second hand by that drug store and they put a new label over some different store's, but I think it's much more likely that since the old label is stained and the new one isn't, that it's just a replacement for a label that became illegible over time.


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## Robby Raccoon (Dec 24, 2017)

It's entirely possible. At worst, both are lost. At best, two separate labels are found. If your idea happens to be, I'll have two at least. LOL.


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## saratogadriver (Dec 26, 2017)

If the label that can be read has any value for a local apothecary collector, I wouldn't attempt this.  On the other hand, if the pharmacy is common and the label doesn't give any real increase in value, this might be worth attempting, as the value in the bottle is going to be the bottle itself and not the outside label.  

My feeling is that you will either get both labels off or neither.   I am betting that those labels are pretty tightly glued to each other.

Jim G


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## Robby Raccoon (Dec 26, 2017)

I didn't search terribly hard, but not much came up for Roussin in Allegan-- in other cities, yes, but not much pertaining to Allegan directly; which then makes me think it was a chain druggist, like Rexall. They must have been around for a while, though, as there is a blotter from them under another address. 
I cannot imagine a plain European apothecary bottle as having much value in the U.S. The value should be in the label, but I'm willing to risk both for the discovery of what's beneath. But is water the best option? Stream? Do I try to quickly dry it afterward? 
The earlier glues were typically made from animal products, soluble in water. Thus we have hope, not like in our modern glues.


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## saratogadriver (Dec 27, 2017)

A little wallpaper removing fluid?   Sometimes that stuff is good at separating layers of paper, and sometimes not.   IME that stuff is hit or miss.   

Jim G


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## saratogadriver (Dec 27, 2017)

I agree with you that an unmarked pharmacy/lab bottle isn't going to have much value.   And my experience with VT meds is that those sorts of small and plain generic labels generally aren't all that valuable on their own.

Jim G


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## Nactex (Dec 27, 2017)

I found a Roussin's Drug Store from Cadillac Mich.


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## Robby Raccoon (Dec 27, 2017)

Jim, is there one that won't eat away the paper or ruin the ink? 

Nactex, yes, I also found other cities with Rousin's, but this one says Allegan.


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## saratogadriver (Dec 28, 2017)

Not a clue.    I've never tried one on anything but wallpaper.   




Spirit Bear said:


> Jim, is there one that won't eat away the paper or ruin the ink?
> 
> Nactex, yes, I also found other cities with Rousin's, but this one says Allegan.


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## Robby Raccoon (Jan 20, 2018)

Well, I ended up soaking it for ten minutes and spent another ten with a razor-blade in separating the two labels. Beneath was a label from a Wolfinger & Gilligan, Druggists, from Hopkins Station, Mi (500 people at the approximated time). Still a 'Spirit of Turpentine'. 

But now I have a loose label and a really dark label. Is there any safe way I can lighten the original label or remove the old turpentine from it, so it can be easily read?


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## CanadianBottles (Jan 21, 2018)

Wow I'm surprised that it's a label from a different store under there!  I imagine that Roussin must have bought old stock from Wolfinger and Gilligan.  Glad to see you got it off in one piece!  I can't offer any recommendations about cleaning unfortunately.


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## Robby Raccoon (Jan 22, 2018)

Canadian Bottles, underneath the currently visible label is a different kind of paper. You can see its outline below (darker chunk centre right), but in person (with a panel of 9 ultra LEDs) one can tell it's a different kind of paper from the extant label. 
From what I can tell and guess, Wolfinger & Gilligan bought this bottle from some supplier, ended up emptying it of its product (assuming it arrived full), soaked off the old label and threw their own over the remains. From there Roussin somehow came into it and nicely set his label over theirs. 
As it doesn't appear anything is left to read on the even older label, I'm not going to remove the visible label.


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## Robby Raccoon (Jan 22, 2018)

Oh, and if it is of interest to anyone, the current label reads:

Spirit of Turpentine 
Dose  -  five to twenty drops on sugar.  When employed as an liniment it should be used with care and followed by a soothing application. 
Wolfinger and Gilligan,  Druggists.  
Hopkins,  Michigan


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (Nov 19, 2020)

Two different glues used back then. Sticky or dry. Peel a corner with a razor blade. If the adhesive is sticky it needs dry heat to remove. If dry it needs a wet bath to remove. Oxiclean and warm water by far works the best. Labels literally fall off.  Dry heat is oven at 350 for about 5 minutes.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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