# OWS.. ..am I the only one..



## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2011)

..who wants to deport them?


----------



## rockbot (Oct 12, 2011)

clue- less in Hawaii? say what?


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2011)

OCCUPY WALL STREET


----------



## Wheelah23 (Oct 12, 2011)

I'm surprised at how successful it is, at least at garnering attention... They don't really have any demands, but it's certainly interesting to watch... It branched out from a bunch of jobless hippies into, well, pretty much all kinds of people!


----------



## Road Dog (Oct 12, 2011)

They won't make it past the first shot of cold air.[]


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2011)

They do indeed have a message: "Destroy capitalism because rich people don't give me money for nothing" ..I'm embarrassed by their whining crap, and I am no rich dude by the longest stretch.. I know how hard those Wall St guys work, I painted in some of their houses. They were almost never home...


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2011)

I have an up-chuckin-inducin sensation of disdain for those ...'protesters'.. [:'(] ..what a crappy way to waste time..


----------



## Jim (Oct 12, 2011)

These idiots need to be rounded up and arrested. Many are simply whining freeloaders, but a substantial number of them are truly anarchists and radical Marxists. Disrupting businesses, destroying public and private property, threatening people...real winners. That anyone in our government would condone and even applaud what these degenerates are doing is sickening. They don't want jobs. Whether you make $5 million a year or $8.00 an hour, whether you're non-union or union, Republican or Democrat, these animals could care less. They want "their" piece of what is rightfully yours handed over to them. Disgusting.  ~Jim


----------



## rockbot (Oct 13, 2011)

Idle minds does the devils work!


----------



## harold (Oct 13, 2011)

Tow in a bar of soap and watch them clear out!


----------



## harold (Oct 13, 2011)

er....that should be THROW


----------



## Wheelah23 (Oct 13, 2011)

Tow is good too... Bring in a REALLY big bar of soap!


----------



## suzanne (Oct 13, 2011)

I am having a hard time determining exactly what their agenda is - I am thinking they need a focal point. It is utterly pointless for them to protest corporate greed in the U.S., because the corporations left.  They should try going to the countries some of these rich corporations are in and protest -

 18 HOUR WORKDAYS
 in some countries it is illegal for the employees to work more than 12 hours a day so after 12 hours they are ordered to punch out and then go back to work well into the night.  Recruiters go to villages promising big money to families if they send their kids back with them to work in the sweatshops but once they get their they are told they must use the money they make to pay for their keep at the factory

 CHILD LABOR/ABUSE
 children harvesting cocoa work from sunrise to dark; if they fall from exhaustion they are beaten.  They have never had a candy bar and don't know what cocoa tastes like.  When pesticides are dumped on the field, they are dumped on the children as well

 POVERTY
 when you bring your e-waste, like tv's and computers, to a collection center they are shipped overseas to countries with no environmental regulation where poor people whose villages have been transformed into giant e-dumps strip the  equipment and burn insulation off the copper wire in never-ending toxic barbecues.  They are so poor they can not say no to the pitiful income they make doing this

 Maybe they are protesting the wall street scammers and schemers.  Imposing regulations on these parasites just turns them into craftier scammers.


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 13, 2011)

It seems that the majority are anarchists and marxists.  You have a bunch of college age folks that have not had to make a living or be responsible for someone else.  They think themselves wise but are foolish.  There are some older 'hippy' communists thrown in.  Then there are the handful of working folks that want to find someone to blame for the economic mess.  


 This is a quote from one of the protesters after they had shouted down Rep. Sheila Jackson's aide:

 "One of the speakers said the solution is nonviolent movement. No, my friend. I'll give you two examples: French Revolution, and Indian so-called Revolution.

     Gandhi, Gandhi today is, with respect to all of you, Gandhi today is a tumor that the ruling class is using constantly to mislead us. French Revolution made fundamental transformation. But it was bloody.

     India, the result of Gandhi, is 600 million people living in maximum poverty.

     So, ultimately, the bourgeoisie won't go without violent means. Revolution! Yes, revolution that is led by the working class.

     Long live revolution! Long live socialism!"

 Where are the reporters that were so mad about Palin's crosshair image  which they said was promoting violence?


----------



## harold (Oct 13, 2011)

These are not idle minds...they are mindless.  Where are the parents?  They are paying good money for these bottom feeders to go to college.  Bet those that missed so many classes, still graduate.


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Oct 13, 2011)

Ya know, like em or not. At least they have the balls to go out and protest for what they belive.

 They could have stayed home and called people names from the safty of their computers.


 How far would any of go to express your displeasure at the way things are going?

 Charlie, you live there.............go bust some skulls for America or do you just  want to come here and whine?

 What's the saying, 'Talk is cheap'


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 13, 2011)

I am all for folks protesting but most of these folks don't seem to have any clear idea of what they are protesting about other than "evil corporations".  Even there they don't seem to really know any specifics concerning what is evil about them....they make profits, they make better salaries that me, they send jobs overseas..etc.  Oh and by the way, give me free college tuition and forgive all my debts.  They haven't thought through the bit about who will pay for the college buildings, up keep, books, dorms, and faculty.  Oh, and by the way, Ramadan Moonbeam over there wants a ban on internal combustion engines and Hello Kitty dolls.
 By the way, can any one explain the bongo drums in these protests?  It was the same here in Madison.  Is the bongo the official protest instrument?

 Read this earlier this morning:
 "The only survey I've seen on who these people are was conducted by New York magazine. Three percent are mainstream liberals of the Barack Obama variety. Twelve percent you might call assertive liberals in the manner of our own Paul Krugman. Roughly 40 percent say they are outside the two parties in the manner of an angrier Ralph Nader, and about 34 percent say there is no moral distinction to be made between Al Qaeda and America. In other words, this is a pretty hard left group."


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 13, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> Ya know, like em or not. At least they have the balls to go out and protest for what they belive.
> 
> ...


 
 Talk is cheap, eh? You wouldn't catch a psychologist saying that!
 I'm not going anywhere near that rabble, last thing I need is a case of rabies.. I know why things are going the way they are going, and I know nothing can be done about it, so I'll just keep my butt planted right here and pretend it isn't happening.


----------



## carobran (Oct 13, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: OsiaBoyce
> 
> Ya know, like em or not. At least they have the balls to go out and protest for what they belive.
> 
> ...


 someone isnt very happy are they?????^^^^^[8|][8|][8|][8|]


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 13, 2011)

Don't worry, Carbinator, Patty Cake has a special way of loving me is all.. [8D]


----------



## carobran (Oct 13, 2011)

and he likes to argue about soda bottles[8D][8|][]............[]


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 13, 2011)

On second thought, I could possibly get rich off them, I know where a warehouse full of Port-o-biffs is at..


----------



## carobran (Oct 13, 2011)

[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]...........[8|]


----------



## rockbot (Oct 13, 2011)

Do you know what I find ironic about stuff like this?

 First off, do those people know what Wall Street actually does?

 I always hear stuff about Corporate America, rich corporations, wall street etc. 

 What does Wall Street have to do with the others? 

 People buy stock in a company that they support or think they will do well. They are supplying capital
 so that a company can start-up, could grow, buy new equipment and make more money. If the company does 
 well its investors get a return on their money. 
 The bottom line is that these investors are people like you and me! Our 401K retirement plans, your union pensions,
 our local government bonds to help support infrastructure in our community is all based on this principal.

 With out this mechanism nothing would work so why are these people against it?

 I'm sorry but some people just need to wake up or try to actually study and learn these mechanisms and se how it
 affects all Americans.

 Yes there are some who take advantage of the system but for the most part it works for us all.


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 13, 2011)

Thank you, Rocky, my sentiments exactly.. you really know how to cut through the baloney! []


----------



## luckiest (Oct 13, 2011)

There are a lot of different kinds of people protesting, I think it is unfair to tar them all with the same brush.


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 13, 2011)

They don't take time to think it through.  It is just knee jerk reactions.  It is kind of like talking to radical vegans/animal rights folks.


----------



## AntiqueMeds (Oct 13, 2011)

> Ya know, like em or not. At least they have the balls to go out and protest for what they belive.
> 
> They could have stayed home and called people names from the safty of their computers.


 
 I dont always agree with OB but in this case I have to say he's right on the money. 
 Nothing will get changed in this country by people who sit on the couch and watch TV all day.
 Why am I even wasting time reading this thread it has no bottles in it??[:'(][:'(]


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 13, 2011)

Wouldn't want to leave you disappointed, Matthias.. here's SOME BOTTLES


----------



## rockbot (Oct 13, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  luckiest
> 
> There are a lot of different kinds of people protesting, I think it is unfair to tar them all with the same brush.


 
  Then I hope that goes the same for the Tea party folks. []


----------



## surfaceone (Oct 13, 2011)

Hey you guyz,

 I think they're awkwardly channeling their inner Yippie, though without the sense of humor. Total lack of street theatre, too.

 Jerry and Abbie would give this bunch the finger.

 Interestingly,President Obama, Nancy Pelosi, John Lewis, Dennis Kucinich, Sherrod Brown, and Jimmy Hoffa Jr. are all fans, when it suits them. Strange bedfellows, all.







 â€œGod bless them for their spontaneity,â€ Pelosi told reporters. â€œItâ€™s young, itâ€™s spontaneous, itâ€™s focused and itâ€™s going to be effective.â€ From.


----------



## harold (Oct 14, 2011)

I hope they do shut down Wall St.   That will put an end to union funds for sure. Union people seem blind to the fact that their retirement, etc is invested in the Stock Market.  When I quit the teachers union, they went nuts and were nasty.....yet I paid off my house and bills with the money that did not go to union dues.


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Oct 14, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: cyberdigger
> 
> Don't worry, Carbinator, Patty Cake has a special way of loving me is all.. [8D]


 
 Dat's right..........Charlie is  alright in my book[][][].

 I just tell people what I think, wether they like it or not.

 Ya see them people doing what they are doing is fine w/ me. Sure they may be PWT or the likes, but they have not stole from me-lied to me-bothered Paula or our kids or grandkids-kicked my dog.......................they can do what ever they like............even if it is being a pain in the arse and are nasty POSs.

 I


----------



## SC pontil collector (Oct 14, 2011)

Hey these protesters aren't going to shut down Wall Street. Really, think about it, no one is going to shut down Wall Street in less the people who run it decide to shut it down. Wall Street isn't going to be affected by these protesters.
 This the U.S., were used to protesters, its a right we all have. 
 If you don't agree with them, ignore them. In the grand scheme of things, this is nothing.
 We have much more important things to be concerned about in our country.
 sc pontil collector


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 15, 2011)

So a gathering of simple-minded twitty textoids have come to stay at the heels of the driving forces of civilization and wait for some table scraps.. they had better not waste their time on Wall Street.. or any street.. why can't they find a way to make a living if they're so energetic and innovative? This country would be fine if people took account of their own actions instead of being lazy and spoiled and blaming their problems on ..whatever they find easiest to blame.. I can't wait for an early winter, a good strong nor'easter blizzard will teach them to appreciate a well-organized, productive society!
 Signed,
 a poor person.


----------



## surfaceone (Oct 15, 2011)

> why can't they find a way to make a living if they're so energetic and innovative?


 
 Yo Chuck,

 They just answered the ad: 




From.
 and look what happened next...


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 15, 2011)

Ya looks like someone tweaked the qualification standards mon.. why not it's tax free if you just go there.. []


----------



## rockbot (Oct 16, 2011)

I just love that word "progressive". 

 Makes me want to go out and buy something![8D]


----------



## carobran (Oct 16, 2011)

like a bottle!!!![][][]


----------



## rockbot (Oct 16, 2011)

$


----------



## dollarbill (Oct 16, 2011)

For all yall that are worried about these energetic and innovative young people .Don't, We got a new war in Africa to fight.With the goverment going to cut Vets Intitlements they will have to reinstate the draft back  because why volunteer when theres no benefits.Then it will be Occupy Africa problem at home solved.Kill off a few 100,000 take some oil, minerals you get the ideal. OH by the way,This a joint task given to both Repulican and Democrat Leaders don't wana leave anybody out.
  Just my crazy Conspiracy Theory.
     Bill []


----------



## suzanne (Oct 16, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  harold
> 
> I hope they do shut down Wall St.   That will put an end to union funds for sure. Union people seem blind to the fact that their retirement, etc is invested in the Stock Market.  When I quit the teachers union, they went nuts and were nasty.....yet I paid off my house and bills with the money that did not go to union dues.


----------



## epackage (Oct 16, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  harold
> 
> I hope they do shut down Wall St.   That will put an end to union funds for sure. Union people seem blind to the fact that their retirement, etc is invested in the Stock Market.  When I quit the teachers union, they went nuts and were nasty.....yet I paid off my house and bills with the money that did not go to union dues.


 ...and this is what makes you an idiot in my book, it started in your very post in the forum and nothing has changed. You need a good boot in the ass Harry....


----------



## suzanne (Oct 16, 2011)

Harold, for a teacher, you are not very logical.  Of course they were contemptuous of you.  You were enjoying the benefits of belonging to the union without paying for them.  How would you like it if you had friends that ate dinner together every Monday night and one of them never brought any potluck, never cooked, and never cleaned up?  That would be a freeloader, wouldn't it?  

 You're little bit of union dues didn't pay off your house.  Your wages from your job did.  Unions of the past fought to bring a fair wage and benefits so you could enjoy them.  For every dollar spent by a union to promote the democratic party a dollar is spent by corporation lobbyists to promote the republicans.  Maybe you were an English teacher because clearly math is not your best subject.


----------



## epackage (Oct 16, 2011)

Suzanne the funny part is his very first post, here it is for the world to see...

 "Exactly, what does this have to do with bottles? I visit this site for antique bottle info, so why the politics? Aren't there sites for this stuff, so you libs can spew your trash?" 

 He now has 10 total posts and 6 are in the general chat forum and they have nothing to do with antique bottles and his apparent need to discuss them and not politics. The guys full of it and needs to move along or shut the heck up...He's an idiot...


----------



## suzanne (Oct 16, 2011)

Yes, he needs a boot in the ass.


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 16, 2011)

[/quote]


> How would you like it if you had friends that ate dinner together every Monday night and one of them never brought any potluck, never cooked, and never cleaned up?  That would be a freeloader, wouldn't it?


 
 But what if you did not want to eat with them but were forced to do so?  Or they told you that you must come and you must bring food whether you want to or not?


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 16, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> Harold, for a teacher, you are not very logical.Â  Of course they were contemptuous of you.Â  You were enjoying the benefits of belonging to the union without paying for them.Â  How would you like it if you had friends that ate dinner together every Monday night and one of them never brought any potluck, never cooked, and never cleaned up?Â  That would be a freeloader, wouldn't it?Â
> 
> You're little bit of union dues didn't pay off your house.Â  Your wages from your job did.Â  Unions of the past fought to bring a fair wage and benefits so you could enjoy them.Â  For every dollar spent by a union to promote the democratic party a dollar is spent by corporation lobbyists to promote the republicans.Â  Maybe you were an English teacher because clearly math is not your best subject.


 [8D][8D] I think its more like a hundred dollars corporate money spent for every union dollar spent, thanks to our beloved (not) supreme court!!


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 16, 2011)

I'm related to Teddy Gleason, so I'm just gonna sit back and do nothing here.. I have no opinion about unions whatsoever. I was talking about the dopey OWS posers/freeloaders anyhow, why are we talking about unions? Don't confuse me, I bought 22 poison and chemical bottles today, and I can't get the smell off my fingers.. yes I tried BKF..


----------



## suzanne (Oct 16, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bostaurus





> How would you like it if you had friends that ate dinner together every Monday night and one of them never brought any potluck, never cooked, and never cleaned up?  That would be a freeloader, wouldn't it?


 
 But what if you did not want to eat with them but were forced to do so?  Or they told you that you must come and you must bring food whether you want to or not?
 [/quote]


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 16, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I'm related to Teddy Gleason, so I'm just gonna sit back and do nothing here.. I have no opinion about unions whatsoever. I was talking about the dopey OWS posers/freeloaders anyhow, why are we talking about unions? Don't confuse me, I bought 22 poison and chemical bottles today, and I can't get the smell off my fingers.. yes I tried BKF..


 [8D] As for your dopey ows freeloaders and such. eyeball this from the Wall Street journal for this sunday....Capitalists of the world unite. under this heading was this article on how your wall street heroes robbed the investors over the years. i quote Most elite investors have cause to join the march. How come?  following wall streets advice and charging fees of 2 to 20% for it when their advice wasnt any better than just buying regular stock. Also the bank employees are the only ones who are making the money the employees of goldman Sachs have pocketed 80 billion dollars in pay and benefits from their investors before declaring bankruptcy and bilking same investors of there cash. In the same article it says how wall street had investors of IRAs into U.S. stocks up about 30% when overseas stocks are up about 150% percent..... So much for your hardworkin wall street bilkers........


----------



## suzanne (Oct 16, 2011)

Reply to Bostarus
 Then you wouldn't have to go there and Harold does not have to work with union teachers.  He could get a job in the private sector; let's see if he can pay his bills then.   

 But he wants union wages, retirement and benefits, so after stepping on his co-workers, he clings to his job and endures their resentment.  And tries to justify himself!  Unbelievable.  Reminds me of my ex-sister in law.  She signed a contract to get free medical school and all she had to do was work on an Indian reservation for 2 years after graduation.  And get paid for it too!  After she graduated she refused to go and cried on everyone's shoulder who would listen about the "evil" government suing her to try to get back the cool half-million they paid for her tuition.


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 16, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> Â
> 
> But he wants union wages, retirement and benefits, so after stepping on his co-workers, he clings to his job and endures their resentment.Â  And tries to justify himself!Â  Unbelievable.Â  [8D][]Kinda like all the rest of the scabs and union busters that the Repubs love so much.......


----------



## rockbot (Oct 16, 2011)

Most brokers don't give a darn whether or not the stock marked goes up or down cause they make a commission on any transaction you make. Buy stock they make money, sell they make money. I wouldn't trust their advice for nothing![]

 Banks are big rip off too. Need a loan 5 to 9% interest. Interested paid to your savings .5 to 1.5%. [:'(]

 The positive side of the Stock market is that it allows anyone to invest and make or lose money. 
 Not just wealth but anyone that does a little homework and put a little aside for an investment and get in on the action.

 Its what we do with our money no matter how much we make, that makes the difference.

 I have friends that are poor and they drink and smoke their life away. They got plenty of money for that.

 Back in the early 1990's I stop drinking alcohol. I saved all that money about $2000.00. Yep it adds up my friends!

 I bought 100 shares of APPLE Computer at about $15.00 per share. Here I am today, the stock split twice and I now have 400 shares of APPLE stock
 worth $400.00 per share. Do the math!

 There is no excuse my friends. Get off your butts and do something!


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 16, 2011)

I guess we are just coming at it from different experiences.  My sister-in-law was a teacher for 20 years.  She had to be part of the union even though she did not want to be and she had union dues taken from her paycheck.  The union leadership was very partisan in their politics (surprise) and backed politicians and policies she and many of the other teachers did not agree with.  It did not matter.  
 She retired as soon as she could, home schooled her kids for awhile, and then went back to teaching at a charter school with no union requirements.  
 I don't have a problem with unions but I do not believe any one should be required to join one.  
 We all walk on the backs of those that came before.  To say that you owe me for what I have done in the past and I am doing now, even if you did not ask for that help, doesn't seem right in my eyes.
 I think there are some unions that still have a place today, and I think there are some that are just political money machines.  
 By saying that I know I have probably step in it.


----------



## epackage (Oct 16, 2011)

How dare those damned unions back politicians that look out for the working man by supporting the unions who have provided the workers with fair pay, safe working conditions, saftey oversight, collective bargaining, job training, reasonable hours and the ability to make a fair days pay for a fair days work....


 People like Harold amaze me with their ignorance and I see he's not the only one who has no idea what things would be like with unions.....I guess we could go back to the good old days of child labor and working 7 days a week 14 hours a day for little pay and no benefits. 

 What's that? You got hurt working for me because your tired from all the unregulated hours I had you work, No problem you're fired now get out !!..[8|]


----------



## rockbot (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Thats about right too![]

 I remember my first job not counting the farm and paper route as a kid. It was pumping gas. Back then we were called "Service Station Attendants",
 That way they could make us do just about everything.[:'(] One notch above slaves is all I remember. The owner was a real ars to boot. Next to the punch clock
 was a sign and I $hit you not, it read... IF ANYONE IS CAUGHT SITTING DOWN, YOU'RE F-N TERMINATED.
 Can you image if it was like that today?


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> Do you know what I find ironic about stuff like this?
> 
> ...


 [] You should read sundays wall STREET journal for a good article on the front page called Capitalists unite!. The article goes on to explain how your beloved wall street shysters bilked millions of dollars out of the investors that they fooled into going along with their bullsh__ . So check it out before ya start a rant about how great these wall street crooks are!!!


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> How dare those damned unions back politicians that look out for the working man by supporting the unions who have provided the workers with fair pay, safe working conditions, saftey oversight, collective bargaining, job training, reasonable hours and the ability to make a fair days pay for a fair days work....
> 
> ...


 [] The United States Senate. A room full of idiots with six figure incomes of whom 54 are millionares, who can kill a JOBS bill! no wonder the OWS are pissed off!


----------



## rockbot (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkerts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Boy you really see only what you want to. Very narrow minded of you. 

 Its nothing more then a chest game and if you choose to just stand by and watch don't cry about it. Either play the game or spend your entire life blaming others for your short comings. I know which one you chose!


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 []Oh I am not the only one here who is narrow minded. I dont believe that Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street journal would stretch the truth about these wall st crooks would you. I am succesfully retired with a good income, so I dont' have to worry about wall sts shenanigans so I dont feel that i have too many shortcoming either......


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 17, 2011)

Maybe a law could be passed that would eliminate all campaign contributions from unions, PACs, corporations, etc.  Only contributions from individuals and that limited to a certain amount per year and would include these crazy fund raising dinners.  I know that some entities would try to get around that by passing money to folks to use as their personal contribution but it there would the limit.  The amount spent on campaigns would drop but that is a good thing.  The amounts spent recently are outrageous. 
 I am sure they would all find a loop hole soon enough but it would be a start.


----------



## suzanne (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bostaurus
> 
> I guess we are just coming at it from different experiences.  My sister-in-law was a teacher for 20 years.  She had to be part of the union even though she did not want to be and she had union dues taken from her paycheck.  The union leadership was very partisan in their politics (surprise) and backed politicians and policies she and many of the other teachers did not agree with.  It did not matter.
> She retired as soon as she could, home schooled her kids for awhile, and then went back to teaching at a charter school with no union requirements.
> ...


 
 No  Bostarus you did not step in it.  Since your sister did not care for the union she did the right thing by finding other employment.  That puts her above Harold. Did someone say unions are obsolete in the "new economy"? Notice how the states are trying to take back  the benefits the teachers gained over the years?  How long do you think they would have these benefits if the unions were not protecting them?  Does 5 minutes sound about right?  Then the teachers would have to buy their own insurance and instead of getting a pension they could get medicaid and food stamps and spend their golden years being supported by  their adult children.   Soon the teachers would quit and go to work at Wal-mart because it would pay the same without the headaches.  Teachers deserve their pay.  How would you like to  put up all day with today's bratty contemptous kids?   School systems in this area are really top heavy. There are lots of extra principles, assistant principles, superintendants, etc, making 6 figures for pushing pencils.  All these redundant  people are like parasites riding on the teachers backs. The newspapers tried to shame them by posting their names and salaries for every one to see.  It didn't work though.


----------



## rockbot (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkert


 []Oh I am not the only one here who is narrow minded. I dont believe that Rupert Murdoch's Wall Street journal would stretch the truth about these wall st crooks would you. I am succesfully retired with a good income, so I dont' have to worry about wall sts shenanigans so I dont feel that i have too many shortcoming either......
 [/quote]

 I see. So you are financially sound and you don't have to worry about Wall Street shenanigans. But you want to deny others the same opportunity. Hmm

 So lets see so far according to you..

 Supreme Court Judges, Senators, all of Wall street, anyone that owns a company, police and anyone that doesn't think like you are stupid, good for nothing 
 crooks. Interesting.

 Michael Savage wrote a best selling book a long time ago and I'm starting to believe he was right. The book was "LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER"

 I got a suggestion for all the OWS folks. If you really want to do something meaningful, why don't they put their money together and buy some stock in
 a few green start up companies. You know like solar, windmills etc and they can help the economy the environment and lead a good example for their cause.

 This would never happy because people like this can only function when using (OPM) other peoples money to push their agenda.


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 17, 2011)

Love this....


----------



## baltbottles (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bostaurus
> 
> Love this....


 
 Good for this guy.. Now if only we could get the 99% to realize that this guy has it all figured out. We would have so much surplus money in this country we wouldn't know what to do with it.

 I guess most people don't realize that corporations get rich by our spending habits. If we didn't buy their products they would just go out of business. And they would be replaced by someone that supplys a needed product not another useless gadget.

 Plus living below your means = more money to spend on bottles.......

 Chris


----------



## Jim (Oct 17, 2011)

That hits the nail on the head. Too many people have completely forgotten the concept of individual responsibility. Make good decisions, and you will be rewarded for them. Will you always be rewarded fully and immediately for them? No. Will things sometimes still seem "unfair" or difficult. Absolutely. That's called life. However, anyone who wants to succeed and live a good life (in this country, anyway) may do so.

 Just because it may take more effort for some people to overcome obstacles and hardships does not mean it's impossible. For me, that would just make success more rewarding. The harder you work for something, the more you appreciate it. Those who choose to get through life by whining, blaming and looking for a "free ride" on the back of someone else are the ones who usually have no respect or appreciation for anything, even when they get it handed to them.

 I am friends with many private-sector union workers. The ones I know are good people and hard workers. The only things I have against unions are the forced political contributions and some (not all) unions protecting workers who don't want to contribute like their co-workers do, but want the same benefits. Sorry, but I would never belong to a union that takes my money to support politicians who do not represent my interests or values. I will decide what those interests and values are, not have them imposed on me by any organization or political party. I am a working man, and I neither need nor want the Democratic party to "look out" for me. The same goes for the Republican party, but I will choose them as the much lesser evil until they give me a good reason not to. I would prefer not to support either major party, but sadly, they are pretty much all we have to really choose from.

 Agree? Cool. Disagree? Fine. Hate bottles? NOW we have a problem, punk! []  Discussions like this are healthy from time to time, but we can't forget the common bond that unites us all. I like everyone here, and there's not a stinking thing any of you can do about it!  ~Jim


----------



## epackage (Oct 17, 2011)

All good points Jim, in my local union I never signed the paperwork to have PAC contributions taken from my paycheck each week and never will because I may not support the political views of those the union wants me too. I get a letter from the union every month or two asking me to please sign the paperwork and I tell them I won't do it and that there better not be any PAC money taken from my pay each week. They don't like it but they also can't do anything about it and that's the way things will stay.

 I am interested in them supporting politicians who support unions but there are other factors for me as well that decide who I want in office, so I just keep rubbing them the wrong way out of principal.
                                    Jim


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2011)

Now you guys are speaking my language.. don't OWS, OYS..! Occupy your self

 !


----------



## Jim (Oct 17, 2011)

They should be thankful to have your membership and support, Jim. Thumbs up for standing up for your own principles. 

 I have a similar situation when I get GOP fundraising calls. "Can we count on your vote for ***?" Sure thing. Then comes the begging for cash, after I have already donated once for the same election cycle. That's irritating. It's like the support I give them isn't enough. I think large organizations like political parties, unions, PACs etc. all do it. They should be glad to have any support that we give them. Instead, they keep holding out their hands like greedy children. If they're so hard-up for cash, maybe they should lay off a six-figure "consultant" or two [&:]  ~Jim


----------



## carobran (Oct 17, 2011)

[8|]i suggest they all take up bottle collecting.......................wait a second................_what am i saying??????................you have to have brain cells to be a bottle collector!![8|][8|][8|][8|]_


----------



## Jim (Oct 17, 2011)

OYS... I like it!  ~Jim


----------



## epackage (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  Jim
> 
> They should be thankful to have your membership and support, Jim. Thumbs up for standing up for your own principles.
> 
> I have a similar situation when I get GOP fundraising calls. "Can we count on your vote for ***?" Sure thing. Then comes the begging for cash, after I have already donated once for the same election cycle. That's irritating. It's like the support I give them isn't enough. I think large organizations like political parties, unions, PACs etc. all do it. They should be glad to have any support that we give them. Instead, they keep holding out their hands like greedy children. If they're so hard-up for cash, maybe they should lay off a six-figure "consultant" or two [&:]Â  ~Jim


 Right Back at Ya' Jim...[]


----------



## epackage (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  carobran
> 
> [8|]i suggest they all take up bottle collecting.......................wait a second................_what am i saying??????................you have to have brain cells to be a bottle collector!![8|][8|][8|][8|]_


 but aren't you a bottle collector Branden ??[8|][&o][X(][:-][>:][][][:'(][&:][][8D][][][][8D][][][][X(][&o][8|][:-][>:][:'(][&:][][]


----------



## carobran (Oct 17, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## carobran (Oct 17, 2011)

well,i turned around and was staring at 2 shelves full of bottles...................so i guess i am[&:][8D][8D][8|]


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 18, 2011)

I agree with both of y'all...Jim and Jim.  I figure politics gets plenty of money..some of it my tax money.  I would much rather spend it on other folks that need it more.


----------



## epackage (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  carobran
> 
> i dont know.................._lemme go check[8|][8|]_


 
 Does it drive you crazy when you type a response to a post and have it end in the qoutes of that post therefore making your response hard to detect.....LOL[8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][8|][:-][8D][]


----------



## epackage (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  carobran
> 
> well,i turned around and was staring at 2 shelves full of bottles...................so i guess i am[&:][8D][8D][8|]


 You might have been in the supermarket when you did this, so that doesn't count...[][][&:][][>:][:-][X(][8|]


----------



## carobran (Oct 18, 2011)

yeah,i dont know why it does that sometimes................i typed after the quote marks..[8|][8|]


----------



## carobran (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 _you think too much..[8|][8|][8D]_


----------



## epackage (Oct 18, 2011)

Don't you have school tomorrow, get to bed young man !!![8D]


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I see. So you are financially sound and you don't have to worry about Wall Street shenanigans. But you want to deny others the same opportunity. Hmm

 So lets see so far according to you..

 Supreme Court Judges, Senators, all of Wall street, anyone that owns a company, police and anyone that doesn't think like you are stupid, good for nothing 
 crooks. Interesting.

 Michael Savage wrote a best selling book a long time ago and I'm starting to believe he was right. The book was "LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER"

 I got a suggestion for all the OWS folks. If you really want to do something meaningful, why don't they put their money together and buy some stock in
 a few green start up companies. You know like solar, windmills etc and they can help the economy the environment and lead a good example for their cause.

 This would never happy because people like this can only function when using (OPM) other peoples money to push their agenda.




 [/quote]
 [8D] I do not believe that I mentioned anything about owners of companies other than AIG or Standard an poors ( and we know how crooked they are) policemen or people like you that I have not called stupid (you have the right to believe in what you do). The rant about the senate killing the jobs bill was true, they all do have six figure incomes and 54 are millionares, I didnt say they are stupid, I was implying that they dont give a crap about me, you, or anybody else except themselves. AND I dont believe that I called you mentally disabled because you are obviously a conservative. I havent resorted to calling you names or insulting you on this forum, but I can if you want me to. And I believe that all the OWS folks , other than the few (which are in every group) are just trying to bring to the worlds attention that there are people in this world who practice the creed of greed regardless of whomever it hurts. And I have especially have not been demanding or denying anybody their desire or ability to create there own degree of financial success or oportunity. I just dont believe in greed for greeds sake. So much for civil discourse we can get nasty if ya want, I have all the time in the world to think up comebacks if thats what ya all want.......Andy


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 18, 2011)

On the lighter side....I liked when the reporter was questioning some of the marchers.  They said they were communists marching for the restoration of democracy!  
 Shall we name all the democratic communist countries...


----------



## suzanne (Oct 18, 2011)

The IBEW invests everyones pensions in the stock market in a mutual fund that did so poorly over the years that electricians would have been better off putting their money in CD's.  Everyone finally rebelled and now you can self invest somewhat.  IN the plumbers/fitters union some executive embezzled so much money from their pension fund that now they will only get half their money back when they retire. If they live in Cedar Rapids.  I don't know the whole story, wish I did.  Sad.  Fitters go through a 5 year long apprenticeship, frequently work in horrible weather and  filthy and dangerous conditions all their lives, only to have a lying greedy son of bitch in a warm office with clean fingernails  steal so much.  I am amazed at the amount of embezzling going on.  Just in this area, where I live, it's gone up 30% in the last 5 years or so according to the paper, especially in small towns, of all places.


----------



## David Fertig (Oct 18, 2011)

Guess I better add my thoughts and experiences to this popular post.

 My first job at the age of 13 was as a dish washer at the local country club.  It paid min. wage.  No union.  And no benefits.  I worked.  I watched.  I asked questions.  And I learned.  I moved up to snack bar.  Then prep.  Then breakfast/lunch cook.  I ran the Sunday brunch buffet.    By the time I left for college, I was working beside the dinner chef learning all I could.  When I was given a new position, I would do the best I could, wait a little, and then ask the boss for a raise.  Most of the time I got one.  Sometimes it was for what I asked, but usually it was less.  No one forced me to work there.  I could have quit any time I wanted.  But - I learned a lot and was much better off then when I started.

 After college, I worked a local milk processing plant.  No union.  Started at about $10 and ended at about $16/hr.  Decent benefits.  I started in the butter room.  Learned all I could.  Moved to receiving and then to operator. I learned all I could.  Asked for raises when I felt I warranted them.  Sometimes I got them, and sometimes I didn't.  It got to the point where I thought I was being taken advantage of, so I looked for another job.

 Started working at the local auto carpet factory.  Union.   Started about $12 and ended about $15.  Ok benefits.  When the whistle blew, we all headed to break.  15 min. later, back to work.  Whistle - lunch.  Whistle - break.  Whistle - go home.  Didn't matter what was going on.  You didn't start work 'till the hour and you didn't work after the hour.  At the milk plant, we would go on the floor early to get filled in by whoever we were relieving, and we would sometimes stay a little over to make sure our relief was ok.  We looked out for each other and would try to help each other out.  At the carpet factory, even if we could fix something, or help someone else out - it "wasn't our job."  And our pay was based on position, not knowledge or performance.  Got laid off and the plant ended up closing down.

 Went to work at a large bakery.  Union.  Started at $12 and ended about $16.  Ok benefits.  It was a new plant.  The company brought the union in before they hired the first worker.  They chose the weakest local they could.  When we started, we were given a union card and told we had to sign before we could work.  The company took union dues from our pay and the union kind of did their thing.  The company would suspend someone and the union would make a show of holding a "hearing" and bringing them back.  If the worker was not a buddy of the union, well there was nothing they (the unioin) could do.  It was all a show and a joke.  The union got their dues and the company had thier say.  And come one July, the union decided to raise dues - without a vote - and then made it retroactive to the beginning of the year.  That made for a real nice paycheck - 7 months of additional dues taken from one check.

 I was involved with trying to get the union de-authorized.   We had the support.  But the union had free access to all workers and if you were a union rep. doing "union business" you didn't have to do your job, but could wander around and tell all the workers that if the union was kicked out, the company would take pay down to minimum wage and cut benefits, etc. etc.  Remember - the company wanted this local for a reason.  I saw union scare tactics.  I saw that the NLRB is pro-union.  I saw that once they are in, it's almost impossible to get them out.  I just didn't see the benefits of being in the union.

 Went to work for a roofer.  Started at $15 and ended at $15.  Good benefits.  No union.  Learned a lot.  Also learned that I didn't want to be a full time  roofer for many years.

 Now - I work for myself.  I raise poultry under contract and I do log house and barn salvage and restoration.  I borrowed 1M to build the poultry barns.  All the income off of them goes into the mortgage.  I hope to have the farm paid off in another 15 years.  

 Our newest car is a 2003.  We eat out about once a week.  We get a lot of our clothes from yardsales and the church clothing exchange.  We usually buy chicken or pork, although I would prefer beef.  We are not poor but I am usually waiting for the next check to come.  

 And we are one of those couples that Obama calls fat cats who make over $200K a year.  But take $100K for mortgage.  $12K for elect.  $12K for taxes.  Add a few thousand for maint.  Add for propane.  Add for oil.  Add for...  Well you get the idea.  

 So, now tell me.  How much better is my life then the one sucking off the system?  I have the hope that someday one of my boys can run the farm and I will have some free time and extra money.  I didn't throw up my hands and say this life is too hard and someone owes me.  I get up and work.  I come home and go to bed.  And sometimes I spend way too much time on here.  But here is what I have learned so far:

 The unions time has come and gone.

 The OWS crowd is a bunch of sheep funded by a bunch of bunch of socialists, marxists, communists, etc.  Kind of like a union.  The union bosses get rich and the workers get less then the private sector, but don't have to think about it.

 If I work and do my best, I can make a decent living.  If I have to take a min. wage job, I will.  It won't be long before I move up.  That's America.

 I want everyone to make money.  People making money buy log houses and more expensive meats.  

 If I don't like it, I'll look for something better.  Better job.  Better house.  Better car.  Better place to live.

 Things are going to really change in this country.  We are looking at civil war.  You can stick your head in the sand, or go and protest what you know nothing about.  Or you can educate yourself.  You can help yourself and help your neighbor.  You better look at both sides before you pick which one to follow.  There's one group that lives off the system and one group that lives within the system.  And if the system breaks down - which is what Soros and OWS want - how exactly is that going to work?  If you live off the system - free college, food stamps, 2 years unemployment, guaranteed $40K income? - what are you going to do when the system is no longer there?

 Get out and get a job you lousy stinkin' hippies.


----------



## epackage (Oct 18, 2011)

Interesting story and take on the whole thing David....I don't take the OWS crowd and group them in with the Unions but I have a family background in the unions which has made for a nice living for me and my family over the years. We have always been a hard working group so our experiences have been 99% positive and I can say without question that unions will never have run their course or outlived their usefullness.

 I see many young men and women who spend 5 years going thru an apprenticeship to learn the trade and this is something many would never get working for the local jobber who fixes toilets and changes water heaters. Most of them do not have the money to spend to go thru a trade school either to gain the working knowledge they would get from the union hall, this includes many training classes offered to those of us still in the local after 25 years. I can take a CAD drawing class, welding course, foreman school and dozens of other trainging classes I would have to pay thousands of dollars for if I were not in the union.

 I worked 5 days a week, 8 hrs a day(thanx to the unions) and then went 3 nights a week 3 hours a night for 4 years to learn my trade. I knew much of what was taught to me because my family has been in the business since the 1890's as Steamfitters but many of my fellow schoolmates had no background what so ever and in 4 years they were much more skilled and prepared to work anywhere including places like 50 story buildings, Nuclear Power Plants and Co-Generation Power Plants. The average apprentice helping a jobber plumber could never achieve these things working on 3" pvc and half inch copper in a 3 bedroom cape in Jersey.

 As you can see I'm very pro union but there are things I don't like about them as well and I have no issue with people not wanting to be in a union, just those who think they serve no purpose because I see it every day that they do and I think I described the reasons why fairly well above.

 Best of luck with your business, I like eating chickens and the Barn Restoration stuff is right up my alley.....Jim


----------



## epackage (Oct 18, 2011)

As for my union boss getting rich, yes he is paid General Foremans rate plus 15%. He also goes to every members funeral, works many late nights and does his best to make sure I have a job and that it's safe and my benefits are paid among many other functions. My father was a General Foreman for many years and retired after finishing the Princeton Molecular Biology Lab, a 6 year project that took a very intelligent man like my father to run from beginning to end. When my father wanted to retire he was offered a spot on the next election ticket top become a Business Agent and he turned it down. I asked him why and he said that the job started at 7am and ended at 3:30 pm for him, he didn't want to work 14-16 hour days. I like to believe he knows a bit more about the union and how it works than you or I. 
       Jim


----------



## carobran (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: epackage
> 
> Don't you have school tomorrow, get to bed young man !!![8D]


 i home school [8|][8|][8D][8D]


----------



## rockbot (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  David Fertig
> 
> 
> 
> So, now tell me.  How much better is my life then the one sucking off the system?  I have the hope that someday one of my boys can run the farm and I will have some free time and extra money.  I didn't throw up my hands and say this life is too hard and someone owes me.  I get up and work.  I come home and go to bed.  And sometimes I spend way too much time on here.  But here is what I have learned so far:


 
 That sums it up for me too. We grew up poor, my dad died when we were young. Had to do what ever it took to survive.
  My kids from 5 years old had to help out on our farm, hosing out pig pens, cooking slop over an open fire,
 try breathing in that $hit every day. We mow lawns and do property maintenance on the side. My kids worked everyday of their lives from 5 years old. Two of them have graduated college and are active in the work force. They saved their money that they got from busting their ars. All the other kids were out playing and having fun, my kids
 had to work.
  I work an 8hr a day job and commute 3 hrs. I clean out pig pens and feed pigs everyday when I get home. Three times
 a week I have to cook slop over an open fire..can't afford fuel. Once a week I got to cut wood for about 6 hrs. Once a week a mow five acres for a client. I have all my other farm chores and products to pick clean and sell for extra money.
 I work 12 to 14 hrs a day seven days a week so yeah this OWS can kiss my A$$!


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: rockbot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  You need to find another line of work. I belive "If ya can't make it on Monday to Friday, you sure as the hell arn't going to make it on Saturday and Sunday." ........and you can quote me on that.

  Cook hog slop? I've been raising hogs [got 25 brood sows now] since 1974 and I aint never cooked them anything. Why?


----------



## rockbot (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 yeah your right, I should join the worthless liberals at OWS and demand my living that way.

 Cooking hog slop. We pick up restaurant food waste and its the law to cook before you feed to kill any pathogens. We help to reduce the waste stream and it helps out the restaurants and the Island. Pretty no brainer there!

 A bag of grain cost $24.00 per 50 lb bag out here in the islands so that would be pretty stupid to buy grain. 
 '
 I put 2 kids to college, one in medical school and ones a mechanical engineer, one more just started not to mention I took care of my wife's sisters kids
 cause their dad was a low life liberal welfare wife beater.

 I think I've done just fine. I'm an engineer by trade. Oh and I do get lots of vacation days so I enjoy the beautiful tropical Islands and digging bottles.

 What do you do? never seen you post once about anything good or digging bottles just another liberal trap door!blah blah blah!


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Oct 18, 2011)

..........."never seen you post once about anything good or digging bottles..........."


 Now that's an original line....can you prove that or you just running your mouth? 

 Now as far as what I do......................let me tell ya something boy. People like you are not worthy to stand in my shadow.[]


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 18, 2011)

Watch yer moves players... []


----------



## David Fertig (Oct 18, 2011)

Epack - that's fine for you and your family.  My point was that I want to be able to determine what I make.  If I was content to work 40 hours a week and make $40-60K a year, I would be doing that.  I went a million in debt with the hopes and prayers that someday I can pass this farm and hopefully another on to the kids.  And do so while I am still young enough to enjoy the payoff.  I've talked to too many people who say they wish they would have done it (fill in the blank) when they were younger.  

 My parents retired from school teaching.  Worked 30 years for the union.  My inlaws teach public school.  They did decent.  Not great.  Just decent.

 I've seen both sides and some days I think - wouldn't it be nice to know what I will make at the end of the year.  How many vacation days I will get.  When I can retire.   When my next smoke break is.  But then when I watch the sun come up across the hay fields because I had to fix a broken feed line at o-dark thirty.  And when I hear the peepers in the bog.  And when I can take a leak in the front yard because the neighbors are far enough away not to see.  And when the kids can play in the creek.  And when I can get to any of my kids school activities.  Or take a day to help a friend.  Or sit in front of this computer because I want to.  Well, then I say - ain't no way I could work for someone else.

 But that's for me and my family.

 And just for a thought.  I really don't care.  And I don't want to argue about it.  But - if your grandfather learned all about pipefitting and started a business.  Say he had a couple helpers after a number of years.  And then your dad learned from his dad.  Took over the business and added a few more guys.  Took some classes or apprenticed with someone (yes - I have apprenticed while I also had a business - and even paid for it myself).  Targeted the high end jobs.  And passed this on to you.  Well.  Where would you be?  Broke and out of work?  Making what you do/did now?  Possibly $250K a year?  $1M?

 And that's the great part about living in America!

 Show me the millionaires who are union members, doing union work, for union pay.


----------



## David Fertig (Oct 18, 2011)

No no cyber.  

 See.  

 He put a winking smiley face there.  

 I learned that makes it ok.


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm talking to everyone.. ..[&:]..


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  David Fertig
> 
> Guess I better add my thoughts and experiences to this popular post.
> 
> ...


 [] Kinda harsh words there at the end, and I didnt see any winkin smiley face either. As I have said before I do not HAVE a problem with guys like you that have pulled your self up by the bootstraps. What i do have a problem with is the creed of greed that permeates our society so much. I believe that the OWS are just trying to bring this to everybodys attention. And sure some of em want to tear down the system, but so do some of the tea partiers and other folk do too. But we can keep it civil I hope because we are all in this together, and fighting among ourselves is not gonna help.........


----------



## epackage (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  David Fertig
> 
> Epack - that's fine for you and your family.  My point was that I want to be able to determine what I make.  If I was content to work 40 hours a week and make $40-60K a year, I would be doing that.  I went a million in debt with the hopes and prayers that someday I can pass this farm and hopefully another on to the kids.  And do so while I am still young enough to enjoy the payoff.  I've talked to too many people who say they wish they would have done it (fill in the blank) when they were younger.
> 
> ...


 I wasn't trying to argue either David, just letting you know my experience with the union. I'm happy working as I do taking home $48.57 an hour in my envelope and all of the benefits on top of it. I live comfortably and alltough it would be great to make a million a year I don't need that to make me content or happy. An average year for me makes me happy in the long run and I do side work which helps me out even more. I was also trying to make the point that the OWS people are not aligned with those of us in the union....Jim


----------



## rockbot (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> ..........."never seen you post once about anything good or digging bottles..........."
> 
> ...


 
 Jesus has spoken! I digress. I will join the OWS as soon as I finish my chores. amen, peace to all!


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 18, 2011)

[] In reply to everyone. I have gone back over this post and realize that it has gotten a little out of hand. Every one who has posted on this subject is liked by others here in this forum, plus they all have given their help and knowledge to others, all of you have contributed to the forum and bottle collecting more than just a few times. So maybe we should call a moratorium on this subject before one of steps in it real bad with one of us. I will apologize to anyone who thinks that I may have slighted them re this subject, and maybe we can go back to what we do best.....Collect and jaw about bottles......Andy


----------



## Wheelah23 (Oct 18, 2011)

My philosophy


----------



## luckiest (Oct 18, 2011)

Well said andy!


----------



## Wheelah23 (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  luckiest
> 
> Well said andy!


 
 Haha yeah I didn't think you meant me... Lol


----------



## rockbot (Oct 19, 2011)

Very honorable gesture Andy. My apologies as well.


----------



## surfaceone (Oct 19, 2011)




----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 19, 2011)

[] I apologize to you especialy, as we did kinda go after each other, and I admit it wasnt purty, anyways good island diggin to ya........Andy


----------



## surfaceone (Oct 19, 2011)

"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies."
 Groucho Marx


----------



## suzanne (Oct 21, 2011)

Since everyone else is telling their story, here's mine.  It's kind of boring though, sorry about that.

 I used to play in bands to make money but I got to be 28 years old and still wasn't famous like Lady GaGA or anything.  I decided to learn how to do something practical to make a living and I picked electronics because usually guys do  it and I always got along better with men.  I went to trade school for electronic engineering technology.  When I finished up with that in 1987 all the local electronics factories were closing up because of foreign competition. At the same time unions were being targeted for discrimination and forced to become equal opportunity employers so I signed on for an apprenticeship through the  International Brotherhood Of Electrical Workers.

 I had thought I liked men.  These guys were a different breed.  They wouldn't show me anything because they didn't
  want me to succeed.   In all fairness the giant farm implement companies so many of them worked at were closing down and they could see the writing on the wall.  I spent much time on the job doing stuff like sorting bolts and delivering materials.  A year into the apprenticeship I was fired because they said I had no mechanical ability. 

 I got a job as an electrician helper for a non-union general contractor at Archer Daniels Midland, and went on from there to work about 8 years as an electrician.  I never learned any thing about doing the work until I got out of the union.

 A union organizer salting on a jobsite  convinced my to re-join the IBEW.  By then I had a journeyman's card.  I told him the union was nothing but a bunch of backstabbing a-holes and I had already been there and been kicked out.  He followed me around for 2 weeks and finally I went down and took there test, got a 96%, paid 200.00, and was reinstated.

 I am now a 15 year member.  It is harder to stay employed if you are a woman because of the buddy system.  Another woman I have worked with said the only way is to get involved with a contractor.  From what I have observed in the trade I have to say she is right.  Another problem is that if you have to work with someone less experienced some of these guys resent you and go behind your back lying about you.  It is really an uphill battle  to get to the point where you are running jobs, although I finally got to that point.  Ever heard of the glass ceiling?  IN the trades it's a concrete ceiling.

 I have seen other minority types get walked on also.  Blacks especially.  A lot of those old union bastards hated blacks and would get them fired for things they had nothing to do with.

 I am pro-union.  I raised my kids who did not want for any necessities  and paid off my house and bills even though I paid union dues too.  That's the thing I like about unions.  You can make a decent living and support your family.  You're not out there applying for food stamps and free medical at the same time you are working.


----------



## glass man (Oct 21, 2011)

Hey I saw this movie before!Don't worry you American loving folk..in the end they get the hell beat outa them with billy sticks...that should keep yall happy till the next thing you don't like in this LAND  O FREEDOM breaks out you don't agree with,

 but.....don't be too shocked when it is the 2nd big DEPRESSION and you think twice bout what you said here..my parents lived through the 1st one and you know what it was bout?A few greedy people wanting all the wealth..yep almost just like now!They got so a scared by all the "RIFF RAFT" in such a silly tizzy over dumb stuff like..why is my kid starving while yall drink champaigne every night? PESANTS...they should have had some of you taking up for them like you are now.They all moved to a little GEORGIA ISLAND called JEKYLL and declared it was only a "HUNTING CLUB"[why didn't they move to a place where there was really something to hunt?Oh I forget that was not really their purpose!].

 Course my parents always wondered what people would do today if it came another  DEpression,cause at least back they they had big farms [least round here] where you could work for food...the farms here have been replaced with big homes that all look alike that freaks from Atlanta came here and paid way to much for cause they thought they would have that kinda money always,but guess what?NOPE! Why?Cause many many jobs went away to somebody that would do that job much cheaper[way over yonder some place..not in this GREAT LAND!].  Who did this?Why BIG CORPERATIONS!!YOU DON'T KNOW THESE THINGS??? See that is what many are protesting if you can read and look close at many of the signs...now not all..they are some freaky deekies just like at any big thing like this!At least they ain't carrying assault or automatic guns...yet...just wait till the mean arsed tea party catches on at last to whats going down and joins forces with these people!!!WHOA!! EASY..THERE..RIDER!![]

 CHARLIE:Why did you start such a contengious thread?OH YES IT IS YOUR RIGHT!GOOD FOR YOU THEN!Sighned "POWERT TO THEM THAR PEOPLE LIKE FOLK"!!


----------



## suzanne (Oct 21, 2011)

Jamie, Republicans are doing their best to cast the ow's in a negative light by comparing them unfavorably with the t-parties.  They want the 2 organizations at each others throats.  Why are they fostering hate (besides the fact that that's what they seem to stand for) between the two groups?  Could it be (shocking!) that they know that as long as the 2 groups are fighting each other the government has nothing to worry about?


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 21, 2011)

I have to say, repectfully, that the two groups are nothing alike.


----------



## suzanne (Oct 21, 2011)

Yes, but just think of the possibilities if they could develop a common agenda somehow.  They would be a force to be reckoned with.  They both want to change the government.  They are tired of being screwed.  They have that in common.  Politicians have something in common too.  Both parties are turning the screws on us.


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 21, 2011)

I don't think you would be able to bring them to the same table.  The Tea Party wants the government to be accountable, stop spending beyond their means and stop making it so hard to do business here that jobs are lost or reduced or jobs have to be moved overseas.  The OWS wants the financial system dismantled, government entitlements increased, etc.   
 The Tea Part blames the government, OWS blames "Wall Street".
 I don't think that is going to change.


----------



## bostaurus (Oct 22, 2011)

The 2%


----------



## glass man (Oct 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> Yes, but just think of the possibilities if they could develop a common agenda somehow.Â  They would be a force to be reckoned with.Â  They both want to change the government.Â  They are tired of being screwed.Â  They have that in common.Â  Politicians have something in common too.Â  Both parties are turning the screws on us.


 

 EXACTLY!!I watched a movement go from peaceful to THE BLACK PANTHERS,THE WEATHERMEN,on and on  in just a very short time!They said it was "THE LEFT" I said it was wrong .Don't think TEA Party folk can't get like that!They are already "Strapped",but then they are really backed by the powers that be as are some of the "up against the wall"STREET people.

 When people start getting hurt they tend to get tired of it and start to fight back....no matter who they are or their best intentions!I was around when Bobby Kennedy died,Martin Luther King ,died[riots broke out all over the country when this happened..I TELL YOU IT WAS GETTING SCARY!Thankfully cooler heads prevailed!]Saw the heads getting beat in 68 at the Dem.[yep the DEM.!] Presidential Convention,,1968 was one of the darkest years overall I have ever seen...but the sun is sure enough behind a cloud now,,will it come back out,,,soon???

 In the summer of 1970 I was walking down a street in Atlanta where the hip-eyes lived.Heard somen behind me..it was two po pos draging a long hair guy right by me...his crime?Coulda been just for having long hair...happened all the time back then..trust me!Any way a bunch of the "Freaks" were across the street yelling out they favorite names for officers along with other names..Atl. in their wisdom put a police station right in the neighborhood where the Hips lived..it was peaceful at first..but 1970 had a "LONG HOT SUMMER"  and a little later there was a full blown riot..as usual the hip-eyes had no protection and really were not out to hurt no one..as usual..back then..the police had plenty of head gear and were out to hurt any of them "long haired commie pinko fag freaks"[back then if a guy had long hair and a guy had long hair even if it was only on your ears ,you were automatically these things...that changed later as it became "the style" to have long/longish hair...but not in the 60sor 70 or so ..in the SOUTH any way! 

 Oh yes I am sure the powers that be are using  any WEAPON OF MASS DESTACTION they can find...what could be better then we,the poor..even middle class get rid of a bunch of us and they have to do...nothing ,but egg it on?No No they ain't that cold...RIGHT!!

 YEP like I said if and they will when they lose their job,home,kids hungry etc. ..it is surely coming if nothing is done ..NOW...look at how the cards are stacked against us...and NOTHING IS CHANGING...look at the Rep. Congress now...they blame Obama for not creating jobs while doing nothing to get any themselves..am I the only one seeing this?..So the can defeat Obama...hey I think they could whulp him if they created jobs..but that ain't the goal!They want it to go on as it is...now when people are willing to work for..whatever jobs may come streaming back from whence they came..or went to begin with cause of slave labor..we will then do the slave labor!Many on here love the 1800s well you may get the chance to relive them!My Grandaddy went to work in a Cotton Mill in 1895 at the ripe ole age of...5 years old..huray for CAPTILISM!!That was when it was at its best..according to some on here...we will see if it comes your turn..that is the real problem too many have died that saw those groovey times and most think it has always been great easy livin times for most...they [nor I] have ever seen it where it was only good for a few that felt it was their GOD GIVEN RIGHT [literally!] to have it so.Ah the gilded age and the DEPRESSION...better get on them knees and pray history want repeat itself!WE DO! Or maybe just say a nice thing bout what at least some are trying to do at wall street!Believe it or not they are Americans too and really care too..it ain't something only the Right have..

 Once more if the Tea Party ever catches on and the two sides do unite...it would be AMERICA AGAIN!!!JAMIE

 Like I said I saw thismovie before!

 "A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND"!  JESUS...DO YOU BELIEVE HIM???


----------



## glass man (Oct 22, 2011)

http://youtu.be/kShTUmYRyCw   a ole song that may help explain:some things never change...


----------



## glass man (Oct 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkerts
> 
> [] In reply to everyone. I have gone back over this post and realize that it has gotten a little out of hand. Every one who has posted on this subject is liked by others here in this forum, plus they all have given their help and knowledge to others, all of you have contributed to the forum and bottle collecting more than just a few times. So maybe we should call a moratorium on this subject before one of steps in it real bad with one of us. I will apologize to anyone who thinks that I may have slighted them re this subject, and maybe we can go back to what we do best.....Collect and jaw about bottles......Andy


 

    Are you crazy Andy ,making sane statements like this?[8D]

 Naw you are right...the folks that don't agree on me with this are wonderful people...I KNOW! It is just we all feel deeply bout things and that makes us want to "Stand Up" for what we believe,a good quality,but who is really right/wrong on some things is the Thing.
 JAMIE


----------



## David Fertig (Oct 24, 2011)

Whoa.

 Glass - settle down.  

 As was said above - the TEA party and the OWS are not the same.  Yes, they may have some of the same wants and beliefs - but they want two entirely different outcomes.  

 Lets stop and look at a few things.

 Why did (and still are) jobs going overseas?  Is it really just so greedy CEOs can make another million?   Look a little further into it them what MSNBC is telling you.  When you have the money to pick up and move a factory, you are going to locate it where it is the most profitable and the easiest place to do business.  Now, most of us here are of limited means, but lets explore anyhow.  Suppose you could move anywhere you wanted.  Family/etc?  Well you could see them whenever you wanted.  You aren't tied down to any location because of money issues.  So.  Where are you going to locate?  Would you pick Location A with higher taxes, more paperwork, less pay at your job, car inspections, home inspections, etc., etc?  Or would you pick Location B where you have less hassles, higher pay, and a better life for your family?   When you keep kicking the dog, he will eventually get up and move.



> ain't carrying assault or automatic guns...yet...just wait till the mean arsed tea party catches on at last to whats going down and joins forces with these people


  What is an assault gun?  How is it different from my deer rifle?  Is it because it is black?  Has a carry handle on the top? Has a pistol grip?  Etc.?  Who and where can you buy an automatic gun?  Again, lets look at the facts.  Not what MSNBC would have you believe.  Chicago and NY City have some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country.  How's that working out for them?  How about the Norway massacre?  What are Norways gun laws?  Kind of hard to stop a crazed gunman when even the cops don't have guns.  Christian?  Right wing?  Better look a little further into that too.

 Remember - there are two sides to every story.  You have the extreme conservative right and the extreme liberal left.  Plus a few nuts thrown in for good measure.  Reality is usually somewhere in the center.  My bro-in-law used to get his news from NPR and the like.  Right after it happened, he and I were discussing the incident where the black college prof. was arrested for breaking into his own house.  Clearly racial profiling, right?  Did NPR say that Gates refused to provide identification?  No.  Did NPR say that the arresting officers partner, who was present, was black?  No.  Did NPR say that the arresting officer is invloved with diversity training for other officers?  No.  Did NPR say that Gates was combative?  No.  Etc.  Etc.  Hmmm.  Why would they leave all that out of their story?

 Who started minimum wage?  And when? What was the year of highest employment for blacks?

 Who started the KKK?

 Who rounded up the Japanese? Why?

 Why did my dads 1980 Honda get the same or better mileage then a lot of new cars?

 Take a little time and go here:

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/

 here:  http://www.change.org/

 and here:  http://www.attackwatch.com/

 Then go to:  http://www.theblaze.com/

 here:  http://newsbusters.org/

 and here:  http://climatedepot.com/

 Wow!  How can they be so far apart?  Take the time.  Learn what is really going on.  My mother bases all her ideas on feelings and thoughts.  Democrats good.  Republicans bad.  Guns kill.  She won't go to certain restaurants because of the "type of people" who eat there, although she won't come out and say it.  However, she will accuse anyone who says anything negative of Obama as being racist.   Why?  Help those in need?  Sure!  Unless that means having to actually _h e l p_ them.  I mean, after all, she and Dad have have plenty of work that needs done around their own house, let alone having to spent actual time doing something for someone else.  Sure, Dad might go to the shore for a three day weekend to "help" his friend put a new water heater in his (friend's) condo (he rent's it out for income), but you certainly can't expect him to cleanup after the flood.  I mean he doesn't even know those people.

 Who does the work that has long lasting positive results?  Who just gives a man a fish?  When I look at the OWS crowd, I see a bunch of hands reaching for the fish.  I just do not see many teaching the art of fishing.  Onless you translate that into teaching people to reach for any handout they can and forget personal responsibility.  

 Well...  I guess I rambled enough for this morning.  Let me close by saying to you union members - good for you.  You did what worked for you and your family.  Suzanne - that's what makes America great.  You tried.  And tried again.  You could have just thrown up your hands and demanded that you get paid for your music.  You could have sued for discrimination.  You could have given up.  But you didn't.  You kept going.  You eventually found what worked for you.  Just don't become the first union you were in, and don't force me to join.


----------



## surfaceone (Oct 24, 2011)

Surrealer days ahead...


----------



## andy volkerts (Oct 24, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  glass man
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 [X(] I know we all feekl strongly about that which affects our country and our lives. I just felt that I had, for one, gone a little to far with some of our members here which I care about a lot. Just tryin to let in a little breath of fresh air, so to speak..Andy


----------



## harold (Oct 27, 2011)

To end the occupies, open a Job Fair there.


----------



## glass man (Oct 28, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkerts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## harold (Oct 30, 2011)

I am called an idiot, yet people seem to watch my every comment.  I can only reason one thing.   These people want a date!  No thanks, my better half would object.  I was never a teacher.   When I found out that the union was giving to the clintons, I quit.


----------



## epackage (Oct 30, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  harold
> 
> I am called an idiot, yet people seem to watch my every comment.  I can only reason one thing.   These people want a date!  No thanks, my better half would object.  I was never a teacher.   When I found out that the union was giving to the clintons, I quit.


 You were called an idiot because your FIRST POST on ABN was about chastizing those of us posting about politics in the General Forum instead of talking about bottles. Now 80% of your posts are in the General Forum and about politics, so yeah YOU'RE AN IDIOT...Thanks for continuing to prove it...[8|]


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 30, 2011)

I don't know how necessary it is to talk about stuff like this.. it could be seen as divisive.. we're only humans, anyway.. we're all messed up one way or the other. []


----------



## AntiqueMeds (Oct 30, 2011)

> I don't know how necessary it is to talk about stuff like this.. it could be seen as divisive..


 
 I've already hit the green button on most of the people who post more about politics than bottles but it still wastes on average 33 milliseconds of my time to scroll past these topics in the list of todays topics[]


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 30, 2011)

Wow if you keep track of milliseconds of your time you must be pretty dern busy! [8D] I usually go from sleeping to waking up to working to relaxing to sleeping with periods of eating, drinking, bathing, and of course the occasional trip to the loo. There's 24 hours right there..[8|]


----------



## AntiqueMeds (Oct 30, 2011)

> you must be pretty dern busy!


 
 I'm busier than a modetator on ABN...

 when you are no longer busy , you die.


----------



## cyberdigger (Oct 30, 2011)

> I'm busier than a modetator on ABN...


 
 That's a credit to our members..

 ..so am I dead and I just don't realize yet?


----------



## RedGinger (Oct 30, 2011)

All I know is, you can be financially responsible and hard working and still have your life and finances ruined through no fault of your own.  Not sure what can be done about that.  I'm not following this thread, just read a few comments.  I have other things on my mind.  Peace out.


----------



## suzanne (Oct 31, 2011)

That is true!  All it takes is for your car to break down.  When I found out how much it cost too take car to shop I realized that mechanics make more than doctors.


----------



## David Fertig (Oct 31, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> Â  I have other things on my mind.Â  Peace out.


----------



## AntiqueMeds (Oct 31, 2011)

how do you know they arent putting the peas in?[]


----------



## surfaceone (Oct 31, 2011)




----------



## glass man (Nov 1, 2011)

Am wondering what they are all about?What are they trying to accomplish?Seems they are not helping any one,but themselves!

 NO I AIN'T TALKING BOUT THE OCCUPIERS,or,WALL STREETERS...I am talking bout the DAMN REPUBLICAN 'T "DO NOTHING ,BUT GRIPE ABOUT OBAMA AND HOW HE CREATES NO JOBS"CONGRESS !All they have done so far is name buildings after people!OH HOW THAT CREATES SO MANY JOBS!!They need to help create jobs themselves ,then maybe people want have to take to the streets!!They are against funding pay for many "First Responders" that the hypocrites once said how wonderful they are,but now don't want to pass the job bill that will keep many employed?Also teachers? Also infrastructure in which many of their districts it is falling apart?


 Of course Senator LINDSEY GRAHAM said "We should go into Libya and rebuild their INFRASTRUCTURE"!Cause there is money to be made there![right...for who?YOU GUESS!}[I know he ain't in the congress of course,but still]
 THEY CARE FOR NO ONE BUT THE RICH AND TH$E DEMS.AIN'T NO BETTER!JAMIE...would be with the freaks at wall street if able and many of yall might feel this way in the not to distant future..think you will always have a job..many others thought so too..per usual it was"But this is me..this can't be happening to ME!I PRAY NOT MY FRIENDS..BUT THINK!!JAMIE


----------



## andy volkerts (Nov 1, 2011)

[] I really think that you have hit the nail onna head so to speak Jamie....god bless..........Andy


----------

