# Another 7up Thread ... But Different



## SODAPOPBOB

Yep, here I go again with another 7up thread!

But this time I'm in search of ...

*The earliest 'date marked' 7up bottle*

Most of us know our 7up basics and that 7up is documented as early as 1928. But what about the bottles themselves? Is anyone aware of a 7up bottle, which would have had a paper label, that's dated between 1928 and 1934? (The first 7up ACL/Painted Label bottles were introduced in 1935). Were the first ones just generic 7 Ounce bottles, possibly green, with no way to identify who used them even if they are date marked? Or is it possible they are marked with 7up in some manner and date marked as well? I'm not sure either but hope to find out - especially if you 7up collectors help us out by sharing with us what you have or know about the 7up bottles made between about 1928 and 1934. 

Reminder:  The Owens-Illinois Glass Company didn't come into existence until 1929-1930, so if they made any of the pre-1935 7up bottles, they would fall into the date range of about 1930 to 1934. 

Its possible the super-early bottles had *u7p* embossed on the shoulder. To tell you the truth, I'm not sure when the shoulder embossing was first introduced. But I've seen it on non-acl bottles as well as acl bottles that usually date between about 1935 and 1938.  

So there you have it! Who will be the first to come up with a confirmed 7up bottle with a confirmed date mark between 1928 and 1934? 

Note: Just because a bottle has a 7up paper label on it, even though the bottle might be date marked, doesn't necessarily mean its a bona fide 7up bottle! What I'm hoping to find is a 7up bottle, of any type, that's clearly marked as such and clearly date marked between 1928 and 1934. 

Thanks in advance to everyone who takes an interest and/or participates in this discussion/search. It could prove to be kinda interesting. (I hope)

Sodapopbob


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a tutorial to help us out ...

Its an article written by Bill Lockhart that appeared in the November-December 2007 issue of the Soda Fizz magazine ...













According to article, this generic amber bottle is one of if not the earliest. But other than the fact it has a paper label, how does Bill Lockhart or anyone else know for certain that the bottle itself is a 7up bottle?


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## iggyworf

I love any talk/discussion about 7up bottles & 7up in general. I will try to add anything I know or have on this topic.(which might turn out not to be a lot)lol. There is a 7up bottle on ebay with a back label I have never seen before. But I cannot spend what they are asking on just one bottle right now. I'm off to work now, the weather has finally started to get a little warmer, so now I can go start 'digging'.


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Thanks for stopping by. Howz about a link to the eBay bottle you mentioned.


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## SODAPOPBOB

For starters ...

The references that say 7up was established in 1928 are referring to ...

*Bib Label Lithiated Lemon Lime Soda*

Which, as we know, was Charles Grigg's first concoction that preceded 7up by at least a year or two. I have spent years searching for anything whatsoever that has Bib Label Lithiated Lemon Lime Soda on it but have never found a single item along those lines. As far as I know, the only items related to the brand were the so called bib labels that hung over the necks of the bottles, plus some type of small cardboard placards that were attached to pull chains on grocery store ceiling lights and fans. If anyone should ever come across either one of those items, snatch it up quick because they are possibly some of the rarest items in the soda bottle kingdom. 

With that said, I expect the earliest actual 7up bottles were likely produced around 1930 or 1931. But, again, how do we identify them? 

Answer: I don't know yet, but its the reason for this discussion in an attempt to try and find out.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Back to the Bill Lockhart article for a moment ... 

Even though I said paper labels don't necessarily date the bottle itself, that doesn't mean paper labels don't provide us with some clues. The tricky part is determining if a paper label was adhered to a bottle yesterday or if its original to the bottle and was adhered 80+ years ago. As near as I can determine, the first 7up paper labels should have two things printed on them ...

1. The word "Lithiated"

2. The words "Howdy Company"

So my current search will involve paper labeled bottles with that particular wording on them, and from there I intend to check out the bottles themselves and see if there are any additional clues regarding date marks, etc. Surely there must be some original bottles with original labels out there somewhere. If you have a candidate, please share it with us.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Speaking of which, I wonder why this seller claims his bottle is from 1931? Is it because of the wording on the paper label or something else? He doesn't say in his description!

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-1931-7up-bottle-w-paper-label-nice


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## SODAPOPBOB

More possible clues ...

All three of these advertisement are from *1931*. They are the earliest 7up ads I have been able to find or am aware of. I have never seen a 7up ad between 1928 and 1930. If you know of one, please share it with us. 

I especially like the first ad from Salt Lake City, Utah because of the bottle cap image in the upper-left corner. We'll discuss it in more detail a little later ...


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## iggyworf

here is that link to the 7up bottle with unseen back label. Hopefully one of us on here can get it.
good work so far Bob!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111966699479?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Gracias' Amigo 

I'm going to try and win it if the price doesn't go through the ceiling. I have never seen one like it and as it stands now I consider it the only known example. I can say that with relative confidence because over the years I have looked at a jillion 7up bottles and would have remembered that one. Its surely a 1937 because as far as I know they weren't doing the neck embossing as late as 1947. (But I need to double-check that to be certain) Its a true beaut!


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## iggyworf

Yes it is! Good luck!


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## SODAPOPBOB

Back to bottle caps and more possible clues ...

I'm honestly not sure which of these two bottle caps was 7up's first, but I believe its the one with Seven Up spelled out. This is the only example of it I'm aware of but have seen lots of the other cap, which is one of the reasons I consider the Seven Up example to be the first. Notice the second picture is the same cap that's illustrated in the 1931 ad that I posted earlier.  

7up's First Cap?




7up's Second Cap?


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## SODAPOPBOB

And lets not forget the 7up paper label trademark that was registered in *1931*

Note: So far, 1931 seems to be a key date!


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Are you familiar with this one? Its the only one I'm aware of that comes the closest to the one you just posted.  

As far as I know there are very few 7up bottles that have "Alkaline Reaction" on them. But what's weird is the seller says its a 1937, and yet his description of the base embossing obviously indicates its a 1936 Owens-Illinois bottle. It apparently has Los Angeles on the base but definitely Fresno, California on the back ...



http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1937-5oz-bottle-eight-bubble-alkaline-243446776


7UP Green 6 1/2 oz.(EMPTY) Bottle. With Eight Bubbles (1937) and Bubble Girl. 
Very Rare due to the scarcity of the reverse wording and 6.5oz instead of 7oz.. 

It would be VERY difficult to find another. Some books I have researched have stated that the wording used on this model may have been used in test markets only and the response to "Alkaline Reaction" didn't go over well with customers, so they changed the wording before sending the bottles into nationwide markets. 

Description: 8" Tall X 2.25 Base

Front; in ACL 7up Reg. U.S. Pat. Off. With girl in swim suit, On the neck is Embossed u7p (not 7up).

Reverse: A COOLER OFF, A FRESHER UP, ALKALINE REACTION, SETTLES THE STOMACH._SEVEN UP BOTTLING CO. FRESNO,CALIF. 

On the neck another u7p.

Bottom: Embossed Around the Edge, SEVEN UP BOTTLING CO. LOS ANGELES, Middle is 7 UP 24 <(O)> 6 

CONDITION: Has Chip on the HEEL **SEE PICTURES Zoom In**! The Bottle is in SUPER Condition other than the Chip!


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Another Question:  

Other than ...

Owens-Illinois
Reed Glass
Glenshaw Glass

... are you aware of any other glass makers that produced *Pre-1938* 7up bottles?


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## iggyworf

Bob, as to post #14, I think I have at least seen that one once or twice before. So that one must be another tough one to find. I have never seen the one I posted a link to until the other day when I saw it on Ebay.

I will double check all my bottle date codes. It might take another day, because all bottles are packed in crates right now.(remodeling basement)but I am only aware of those 3 makers as of now. I will try to do some searching also. I am back to work full time now so a lot less time at the computer.


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy 

Thanks / No Hurry 

Of the dozens of paper label 7up bottles I have looked at today (on eBay and elsewhere), this is the only one that sparked my interest. I especially like it because ...

1. Its generic
2. No neck embossing
3. "Lithiated" on label
4. Early cap 

Unfortunately, the seller did not include a picture of the base and simply describes it as "1930s"  So I sent him an inquiry and asked about the base markings. Hopefully I will hear back from him soon. Of course I have no idea if the bottle, label, and cap are all original to one another, but it has enough of the right ingredients to consider it as a possible contender for a pre 1933-34 bottle. I'll let you know what the seller has to say just as soon as I hear back from him.  

Check it out ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-Paper-...219188?hash=item58d906bbb4:g:XgEAAOSwgApXCum-


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## iggyworf

Good deal Bob,  I looked at that one also. I also seen one as a total fake. It was a PL Listed as a 1935 bottle. The label did state 1935 but the green bottle was a 'blob' top bottle. The person was asking astronomical price for it.


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## SODAPOPBOB

The seller just sent me this picture of the base and says its the number *3*

I forgot to ask him earlier, so I sent a reply to see if there are any other marks on the bottle, such as on the heel. 

The number 3 doesn't tell us much but its highly unlikely that it stands for 1933. Hopefully there is a makers mark on it somewhere.


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## SODAPOPBOB

I heard from the seller again and he said the number 3 is the only thing embossed on the bottle and that there is nothing on the heel or elsewhere. Well, all I can say is that it definitely qualifies in the 'generic' department that Bill Lockhart referred to in his article. But other than that, I'm really not sure what to make of it. Although, the seller did say the cap came with the bottle, so that's kinda good news! I might bid on it just for the heck of it! I'll let you know if I do, and especially if I win it. 

The search continues for more candidates!


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## SODAPOPBOB

I just received this final message from the seller ...

*Hello Bob,

Thanks for the info...I have collected quite a bit of Coca-Cola and 7up bottles and typically know where to find dates and numbers...was thrown for a loop on this one and dated It from the label and cap. It's always nice to find someone knowledgeable about the bottles in case I missed something. 

Thank you for the information.

Mike*


The only thing I can think to add about the 'label' is that it has *REG. U.S. PAT. OFF.* on it, which should date it no earlier than 1931 because that's when the *paper label *Trademark was first registered. I also like the fact that it has a line under the word 'up' ... I just wish I knew more about the bottle itself.


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

I'm the impulsive type and have decided that I'm definitely going to bid on the paper label bottle. I took a quick look around and cannot find a picture of another paper label that has the 7up underlined. I'm thinking that's got to be an early label. If I win it, I'll try and figure out the rest of it later. And if someone outbids me, oh well. I have been shot down before and have learned to just roll with the punches.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Buckle up, 'cause we're going for a wild ride!

Note: I fully acknowledge that a lot of what follows is based on pure speculation and guesswork. However, even with that said, its possible that enough pieces of the puzzle are fitting together to warrant a closer look. 

I'm almost glad the paper label on the eBay bottle is in poor condition. If it were in better shape it might lessen my chances of winning it. Most collectors don't like items in ratty condition. But, as I said earlier, this is primarily about the bottle itself and not the label or cap. The label and cap are merely clues to the bottle's possible age and origin.  

Now for the tricky part!

Notice the larger words on the lower part of the label. Is it possible those words are ...


*TAYLOR BOTTLING*

I'm not sure either, but I hope to find out! If the words are TAYLOR BOTTLING, then I consider that good news because it increases the chances of the bottle being extremely early. As you will discover in the following information, E. L. Taylor is acknowledged as the first 7up bottler. But I guess the only way I will ever know with any measure of certainty what's on the label is to win the bottle first and then examine it close up and see what I can see - plus do a continued search for a similar paper label, which I have been doing but haven't found one yet. 

 Regarding 7up's first bottler, E. L. Taylor / Edward L. Taylor / Ed Taylor ...

 Forum thread from 2012. 

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum...9-m572381.aspx




On the following link, scroll to the paragraph starting with "During the Great Depression, ..."


http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/o...articles/disyk 


"During the Great Depression, Seven-Up and Pepsi-Cola sought markets in Texas, mainly under the promotion of Jodie W. McCarley of San Antonio. While shagging baseballs for the Cleveland Indians in St. Louis, McCarley met Pearl Whitcraft and Ed Taylor, who owned soda-water plants in the city. In 1929 Taylor offered McCarley a chance to get in the bottling business by assuming a debt owed a St. Louis flavor manufacturer. McCarley set up a small bottling plant in his home in San Antonio with second-hand machinery, and peddled his drinks each morning. In addition to generic flavors, he sold Knight Club Ginger Ale, mostly to bootleggers. Ed Taylor also put McCarley in touch with C. L. Griggs, owner of the Howdy Company, which offered franchises on Howdy Orange. In 1928 Griggs had copyrighted Seven-Up, a lithiated lemon drink promoted as a mixer. In January 1930 McCarley, the second bottler in the nation to receive a Seven-Up franchise (Taylor was the first), was given an opportunity to sell Seven-Up in seventy-eight Texas counties. Business was slow: he signed up only one bottler, Ed Knebel, who had moved his small plant from Pflugerville to Austin in 1930."



On the following link, scroll to Section 8 Page 6, (Indicated at the top-left of the page) where you will find ...

"In 1928, the Howdy Bottling Company headed by Edward L. Taylor, who was Charles L. Grigg's first "Developer." [Bottler]

http://www.dnr.mo.gov/shpo/nps-nr/04000089.pdf


*???*



*The ST. Louis Dispatch July 30, 1975*



*The picture in the newspaper article and the one on the commemorative cap appear to be identical*



*Commemorative E. L. Taylor bottle*





*Regarding most of the above*


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

I agree the letter following the 'T' looks like a 'Y' but who can say for certain at this juncture?


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another mystery item. Check it out!

(I tried but was unable to save a picture)

https://www.rubylane.com/item/61838-338449x20RL3767/1931-Advertising-Fan-7-Up-Soda


"The cardboard fan was lithographed by Louis F. Dow Co. They printed many pin-up calendar prints during the Art Deco Era. The fan is dated with the 1931 code."


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## SODAPOPBOB

Regarding the 7up fan ...

Please be reminded the 7up paper label with the "Slenderizing" lady was trademarked in 1931. So if the fan is indeed from 1931, then it *might* be directly related to the trademarked paper label. Which causes me to wonder which came first, the trademarked paper label or the fan that illustrates a lady in a swimsuit?

If anyone can figure out how to save an enlarged picture of the fan (both sides) please do so and share it with us. Thanks!


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

I did a little experiment and discovered I can print, scan, and save a picture of the fan. However, I need to replace my color ink first, which I will do later today and then post it when I'm done.


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## SODAPOPBOB

In the meantime ...


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## iggyworf

Good work Bob. I checked all my bottles and my earliest is 1936 if I read it right. I do have a 7 oz with no PL and no signs of ACL with 7up embossed on only one side of the neck from the 7up co of Holland Mi. Reed Glass co mark with a very faint  'L   1'  on the bottom. But don't have time right now to research that company. No other marks on the bottle. I don't think it is what we seek but we have to check all possibilities. I will get pics if you think you should see it.


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## iggyworf

SODAPOPBOB said:


> In the meantime ...
> 
> View attachment 170912



It is possible. Here is some cool E L Taylor info merch. from the bottle. Which states that he opened the 'Howdy Bottling co" .


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## SODAPOPBOB

For consideration in connection with the mystery paper label bottle. Seller states this bottle is dated 1938, but no picture of the base ...

(However, because it has u7p embossed on the neck, it should date between 1935 and 1938)

*Taylor - Tarboro, North Carolina*

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/7up-soda-bottle-tarboro-c-green-534956793


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## SODAPOPBOB

Regarding the so called 1931 7up fan ... 

What appears to be the same fan is currently on eBay and priced at $98.00 ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Stunning-Vi...istributors-/251948581537?hash=item3aa94e42a1

Its missing the stick and the seller doesn't mention a date, but it appears to be identical to the one from Ruby Lane that I posted a link to earlier. 

As far as the Louis F. Dow Company date codes are concerned, I couldn't find anything specific to them, but I did discover other items made by the company, such as various blotters that had the following codes ...

B 411 27
B 411 30
B 411 31

As near as I can determine, the 'B' stands for 'Blotter' and the 'F' on the 7up fan stands for 'Fan.' But whether the 27, 30, and 31 on the blotters are dates, I cannot say for certain.  

The code on the 7up fan is ... F-31-1  (Which the Ruby Lane seller said was for 1931) 

I found another Louis F. Dow fan (That, like the one on eBay, was missing the stick handle) with a F-34-5 code on it, but whether the 34 stands for 1934, I can't say for certain. 

Even though unconfirmed, there appears to be some consistency in the codes, which leads me to suspect the two digit numbers could very well be dates. If so, then its possible the 7up fan in question could very well have been made in 1931. But even if that's the case, the question still remains ...

Which came first - The 1931 7up fan or the 1931 7up 'Slenderizing Lady' trademark? 

My guess is the 7up trademark came first and the 7up fan came later in connection with the trademark. ???

Anyhoo, here are the pictures from eBay ...



Notice the label on the bottle. I've seen lots of illustrations of the label, but never an actual example on an actual bottle. I wonder if it was ever actually used?


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## SODAPOPBOB

Back to the mystery 7up paper label bottle ...

I have conducted a fairly extensive search for anything and everything related to 7up that has the 'up' underlined, and the only thing I have found so far is the 'winged' 7up logo that is said to have been trademarked in 1929. Of course this doesn't necessarily date the mystery bottle itself, but I do consider it a significant clue in that anything underlined in that manner could very well be an early-early item.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Oops!

I forgot this *1931* ad also has the 7up underlined! Hmmm, are we starting to see a trend of some type? Maybe!


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## SODAPOPBOB

Okay, here's the deal!

Perhaps I shouldn't even mention this, but I'm going to anyway. As it stands now, I'm about 99% convinced the mystery 7up bottle on eBay is pre 1933 and that the label itself is quite possibly one of if not the first 7up paper labels ever used. I could be wrong about this, but because its the only one like it I can find or have ever seen a picture of, I'm fully prepared to bid in earnest on it even if it means bidding as high as $100++. Its also possible its the only known example of that particular type of label. There's still some time for me to contemplate this, so if anyone can provide us with a picture of an identical label, please do so as it might at least tell us something about the label itself and possibly even accurately date it. Thanks!


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

If I haven't emphasized it enough already, I'd like to reiterate that the specific paper label I'm looking for is one that has the 'up' in '7up' underlined


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## SODAPOPBOB

I also forgot these 7up decals that have been the subject of controversy in the past. Even though they are reproductions that apparently came out in the 1970s, compare the wording on it and the wording on the eBay bottle. Also notice the 7up is underlined ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

By the way ...

My confidence rating of 99% for the eBay paper label as being pre 1933 just went up to 99.9%


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## Jbeas31

Bob, I believe you've stumbled on a very unique bottle. Much like I did with the orange swimsuit bottle. I believe you are correct that not many people, if any others, will bid on your discovery because of it's condition. I will be interested to see if the label can be dated with the bottle itself.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Jbeas31

First of all, thanks for the comments - I hope I win it too so I can put it through my 'research grinder' and see what comes out on the other side. (Lol) 

Plus, I'm glad you stopped by because I have been wanting to share the following with you, which I was going to eventually post on your orange swimsuit thread. 

This is cropped from the 5th of the 6 images of the Bill Lockhart article I posted earlier on this thread. Notice what it says about the 'other' swimsuit girl. I'm not sure I agree with the 'springing into a dive' part, but I suppose its possible. Check out what the snippet says and then compare the various labels and see what you think ... 

Snippet



Reaching



Reaching or Diving?



Reaching or Diving?


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## jblaylock

What stands out to me, other than the shape is the legs.  Notice there is more of a bend in the legs of the orange swimsuit girl.


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## iggyworf

I am trying to look up info on the Holland Michigan 7up bottling co. Without a ton of luck, but discovered a few things. Started by 'Phillip Brooks' in his basement, they bottled 7up in 1936. Not in 7up bottles but in prohibition beer bottles. Quote from this atricle I found:

"Started by entrepreneur Phillips Brooks in 1936 out of his Holland home and a factory basement rented out at night to bottle the lemon-lime soda 7-UP, Brooks couldn’t afford pop bottles so he bought beer bottles from the Prohibition-diminished Berghoff Brewery of Chicago for his first runs."

http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2011/09/hollands_former_beverage_ameri.html

So at least this bottler was using 'generic' type bottles other than 7up bottles. I could not find a pic of any of those types of bottles. Not sure if this info will help us, or is even relevant to our quest but I thought I would see if this helps.
Here are some pics of the plain green 7up bottle I have from that bottling co. I know I have seen a few of these before. At the most it is probably only 1938 or newer. 7 oz.


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

I haven't had time to fully research the Holland, Michigan 7up bottler or Phillips Brooks, but I did see one reference that said the company was established in *1934*. If accurate, then they definitely used a paper label bottle of some type. I noticed your bottle was made by Reed Glass. Even though I'm still trying to figure out exactly how to decipher Reed marks, please tell us what markings are on your bottle as it might provide us with some clues.


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## SODAPOPBOB

In the meantime ...

Compare the Slenderizing Lady on the mystery eBay bottle to the one on the 1970s reproduction decal. They are similar but not identical. Notice ... 

1. The decal lady is standing upright

2. The paper label lady is bending backwards 
    (This is the most 'bent' slenderizing lady I have ever seen)

3. The placement of the bubbles 
    (Notice the paper label lady's hand is touching a bubble that almost looks like a beach ball) 

Paper Label




Decal


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## iggyworf

7up embossed on only one side of the neck, on the bottom,  7up co  Holland Mich. Reed Glass co mark with a very faint  'L   1'  on the bottom. That is all the markings the bottle has.


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Thanks

But I think you'll agree we need to learn more about Reed Glass marks. Your probably right that the bottle dates no earlier than 1938, but other than that I have no clue what the L 1 stands for. Maybe 1941?

Regarding Phillips Brooks ...

I took a quick look on Ancestry.com and discovered ...

Born: 1893
Died: 1977

The Holland, Michigan directories list him as an Insurance Salesman with 'Visscher-Brooks Insurance' between 1929 and 1934 (The 1935 directory is missing) and it isn't until the 1936 directory where he's listed as a 'Seven-up Disrtibutor.'


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

Of the jillions of Paper and ACL 7up labels I have been looking at or am aware of, the Slenderizing Lady on the paper label eBay bottle is the only one I can find that shows her actually *touching a bubble*. I don't know if that's significant, but I find it interesting!


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another/better picture of the eBay paper label. Notice its almost detached from the bottle ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

Regarding the bottle cap on the eBay paper label bottle ...

I posted this letter in previous threads but still don't know much about it other than the individual said it was dated 1928 and that the boxed area says ...

*For 1929* 

Apparently it has something to do with announcing the official introduction of 7up in 1929. What I find most interesting about it is the circled 7up logo at the top and its similarity to early 7up bottle caps, such as the one on the eBay paper label bottle ...

If anyone knows of a way to make the letter readable, please do so and share it with us. The information it contains could possibly help rewrite the early history of 7up. 

The letter has "The Howdy Company" on it.


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

I didn't ask the eBay seller if there is anything printed on the edge of the cap, and I don't plan to ask him. But it would be very interesting if there is something printed on the cap, such as the bottler's name and/or location. Or just about anything for that matter!


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## SODAPOPBOB

I'm trying to figure out the timeline regarding 7up paper labels, but it aint easy! There are so many different variations that its downright confusing. 

Take this label for example; Its from a 2004 "the Soda Fizz" magazine article published by Cecil Munsey. The only problem is, Cecil doesn't say when the label ad was published or what periodical he found it in. In fact, he doesn't say anything about it! Its only by reading the ad itself where we see that is says ... 

*Labels do not come off in the cooler if you use Swift & Co.'s Hermatite cold water paste. 

Write their nearest branch for sample.*

Reminder: Based on my research findings, the first 7up paper label that had the Slenderizing Lady on it was trademarked in 1931.   

If in fact this is the first 7up paper label, here's what I like about it ...

1. 7up is underlined
2. The Slenderizing Lady is leaning back
3. The Slenderizing Lady is almost touching a bubble
4. It has Alkaline Reaction on it
5. It might be the predecessor paper label to the first 1935 acl bottle

Entire Ad from Cecil Munsey article




Cropped Portion



First ACL Bottle (1935)



eBay Paper Label for Comparison


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## SODAPOPBOB

In other words ...

If the ad Cecil Munsey published in his article does in fact depict 7up's first paper label, then the eBay paper label might be the second one. Or is it vice versa - the eBay paper label was the first and the Cecil Munsey paper label was the second? See what I mean when I say its confusing?


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

The reason I think the Cecil Munsey paper label might be the second one is because it does not have the word "Lithiated" on it, nor does the first 1935 ACL bottle.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Which means there's still a possibility the eBay paper label is the first and possibly dates to ...

1931


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## SODAPOPBOB

In search of ..

*Any* 7up paper label that has "*Drink After Eating*" in the upper right corner of the label


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## SODAPOPBOB

By the way ...

If a member of this forum outbids me on the eBay bottle tomorrow, I fully understand because its fair game. But I do ask if its a member who wins it, that you eventually share it with us, especially if you discover something about it that the seller overlooked or did not disclose. Of course, I will do the same if I win it. 

Thanks

Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB

Inconclusive but interesting ...

This is merely an experiment to see if the word '*TAYLOR*' would even fit on the label. As near as I can determine, it would fit into the space allowed ...


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## M.C.Glass

It looks like it says "TYLER" to me.


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## SODAPOPBOB

I won the paper label bottle on eBay @  $13.50

Now I can study the label in detail, with a magnifying glass if necessary, and see if I can determine what parts are inked lettering and what parts are deterioration or blemishes. I'll also study the bottle itself and see if there's anything the seller overlooked. 

I'm still on the hunt for another paper label like it, but after hours of searching I have not been able to find one, nor anything that even comes close to it. I'm still of the opinion that its pre-1933 and possibly as early as 1931. I also did some research on the bottle cap and the latest date I can find for it is 1934

I'll be back!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Speaking of the bottle cap, here's a *close-up* of one ...

I've studied several of these and none that I've see had any words on the edge - except for this one which has the letter 'A'

I do not know what the 'A' stands for but trying to find out!


----------



## iggyworf

Congrats on the bottle Bob! Hopefully it will give us some answers.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Thanks - I hope it provides some answers, too. 

Prior to the close of the auction I discovered that one of the bidders for the bottle was, a***l (506), who also bid and won the hand painted sign pictured below that he paid $261 for. Because he had just paid big money for the sign, I was sure he was going to outbid me on the bottle. But apparently he didn't want it as much as I did because he never increased his final bid, which allowed me to win it in a landslide. 

Here's the link to the hand painted sign that bidder a***l (506) won for $261 ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-7up...SjcZ1CDxwM6r2yj0hsYvs%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


----------



## Canadacan

The sign is a modern piece, the seller originally had a  $59 start price and s bin for $100!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Delusions of Grandeur ...

Call me crazy, but I'm hoping the paper label 7up bottle turns out to be the first 7up bottle ever produced and results in it being the only known example, and that another one will never be found. If that occurs, maybe it will eventually go on to become what this 'Pemberton French Wine Coca' bottle became. The guy paid $4.00 for it and it ended up selling at auction for $13,750.00. 

Check it out!

Note: John Pemberton invented Coca Cola in 1886 - French Wine Coca was a predecessor of Coca Cola

[ 2014 Newspaper article about the Pemberton bottle ] 

http://www.abqjournal.com/397947/news/bottle-bought-for-4-could-bring-5000-at-auction.html

[ 2014 Auction Results ]






[ John Pemberton ]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I just sent Bill Lockhart the following email message - I'll let you know what he has to say when I hear back from him ...

*Howdy, Bill

I hope your RV travels have taken you far and wide and that you're having a blast. I hope to be able to do that myself someday. 

In the meantime, I could use a little help on a 7up bottle I won on eBay yesterday. I'm especially interested in knowing more about the paper label. It has "Drink After Eating" on the upper right corner of the label and is the only example like it I can find a picture of. I definitely recall reading about that particular label somewhere, but I can't recall where. I thought it was in one of your articles, but having reread every one of them that I can find, I did not see any mention of the 'Drink After Eating' label. I'm thinking it might be 7up's first paper label that was trademarked in 1931. Another interesting aspect of the label is that the 'up' in 7up is underlined. 

Like I said, I have looked at dozens and dozens of 7up paper labels but can't find another one like it, and was hoping you are familiar with it and can help me out, especially if you have a picture of the same or similar label. As for the word near the bottom of the label, it appears to be either 'Tyler' or 'Taylor.'  If 'Taylor,' it might be for 7up's first bottler, Edward L Taylor. But because I have not received the bottle yet, I'm not certain what's what about the label and what might be inked letters and what might be blemishes.  

As for the bottle itself, its generic with no makers mark. The seller said the only embossing on the bottle is what appears to be the number 3 on the base. Also notice the early cap that the seller said came with the bottle when he originally acquired it.  

It will be very much appreciated if you can help me out with this. As far as I know you are the leading expert on 7up bottles. 

Please study the attached pictures and let me know if you have any questions.

Thanks a lot!

Bob
San Diego, Ca.*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I haven't heard from Bill Lockhart yet, but I did find this use of "*after eating* in a newspaper article from ...

1934

(I'm still looking for the article where the "Drink After Eating" paper label was discussed. Plus, the label also has "Takes The Ouch Out of Grouch" on it, which I'm also looking for)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This ad didn't scan very good, but you can see enough of it to read the reference to "after eating" in the second sentence from the bottom. Its from a Cecil Munsey article but Cecil didn't mention a date for the ad. But its obviously super early and could be as early as 1930 because of the graphics. The figure is what I call the "Flying" Slenderizing Lady that preceded the typical Slenderizing Lady.

Notice the shield/bottle cap she's holding


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

1933

Has "after eating" and 7up is underlined


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

For future reference while its at my finger tips ...

Earliest registration is No. 252,350, issued *February 5, 1929*, for "Seven Up", and No. 331,345, issued January 7, 1936, for "7 Up". Both are for use on the goods or on the packages or bottles containing non-alcoholic soft drinks and syrups, extracts and flavors used in making the same.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Which ties in with this that I posted earlier ...

"*For 1929*"


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I just received this ...



eBay 

Hi Robert - Your order has shipped to ...  

Rare Paper Label 7Up Seven Up Bottle with Cap 1930's Lithiated Lemon Soda 8 Dot  
Estimated Delivery : Sat. Apr. 23  
Tracking Number :  
Shipping Service : USPS Retail Ground


----------



## jblaylock

I hope it arrives in decent condition.  I once bought a Paper label Pepsi Louisville bottle and a bunch of the label came off in shipping.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I heard from Bill Lockhart and he said because the bottle is generic with no makers mark that he cannot help to identify when or by who it was made. As for the paper label, he said he is not familiar with it and has never seen one like it. So I'd say its a good news/bad news situation.

Good News: If Bill Lockhart is not familiar with the bottle or label, then I don't know who is. Which suggest the paper label could be extremely rare are possibly the only known example. 

Bad News: If Bill Lockhart is not familiar with the bottle or label, then I don't know who is. Which means we are on our own in trying to identify and date them. Which also means we are pretty much back to square one. 

Perhaps after I examine the bottle and label I will discover something about them that will help. If not, then it will remain a mystery bottle until I or someone else stumbles onto something more concrete. 

I can't wait until the bottle arrives because now I'm more curious than ever!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

jblaylock said:


> I hope it arrives in decent condition.  I once bought a Paper label Pepsi Louisville bottle and a bunch of the label came off in shipping.




Josh

I'm concerned about the same thing and hope the seller took that into account when he packed it. If it were me I would wrap a single sheet of copy paper around the bottle and securely tape it in place to keep the label intact, and then wrap it again with padding before boxing. But all I can do now is keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

With eBay and the ease of traveling these days, who knows where an item might have originated from? Take the paper label bottle for example, its being shipped from New River, Arizona, which is a desert community located about 50 miles northwest of Phoenix. But I doubt the bottle originated from there, although you never know. I have a daughter who lives near Phoenix and whenever she mails me something it usually takes about two or three days at the most. So if that holds true for the bottle, it should arrive Wednesday or Thursday of this week. 

New River, Arizona

Wikipedia ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_River,_Arizona

Google Earth ...

I zoomed around but couldn't find a store or post office. But I expect there's probably something nearby.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Please be reminded the subtitle of this thread is ...

"*But Different*"

Well, here's some of the 'But Different' part. Its off topic but might be of interest anyway. About 40 years ago I lived in Oregon and used dig for soda bottles in a dump near where I lived and worked at the time. The dump was located in a somewhat remote area and produced more soda bottles than I could count. In fact, there were so many bottles that I only kept those in excellent condition and left the ratty ones and duplicates behind. I frequented that dump numerous times over a two year period and probably accumulated at least a hundred 'keepers.' 

A while back I was contacted by someone who lives in Oregon who found me via a forum PM. Apparently they saw a thread I started or participated in where I mentioned something about living in Oregon at one time and how I used to dig around for soda bottles there. They asked if I would be willing to share the location of the dump with them, which I did and recently sent them detailed instructions on how to find it.

Anyway, it just so happens they are digging at the dump *today* and are supposed to contact me later this evening or tomorrow and let me know what they found. They also offered me the 'pick of the litter' for having shared the location of the dump with them. I'm not sure I will accept their offer, but I'm definitely interested to see what come up with and can't wait to hear from them. They're going to send me some pictures of their finds and of the dump which I haven't been to in almost 40 years. I'll let you know what they dug up (if anything) just as soon as I hear from them. Its amazing how small the world can become because of the Internet and forums like this. I always wanted to go back to that dump, but was never able to until now - but via another collector and newly found friend!


----------



## iggyworf

That's pretty cool Bob! And I hope your bottle arrives safely.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Thanks - I've got my fingers crossed for the 7up bottle and the dump! 

Here are two of the bottles I found at the Oregon dump that I still have ...

1. Pacific Beverages - Sailboat - Tillamook, Oregon - Located on the coast and home of "Tillamook Cheese" - Somewhat common these days but hard to find 40 years ago.

2. Oregon City Beverages - Located near Portland - Hard to find 40 years ago and still hard to find! I'm hoping my new friends find one of these.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Tracking Update on 7up Paper Label Bottle ... (Pacific Time)

Time and date Place Message

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 7:53 AM  FEDEX SMARTPOST CHINO , CA  Arrived at FedEx location

Wednesday, Apr 20, 2016 4:28 AM  BLOOMINGTON , CA  Departed FedEx location

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2016 10:01 PM  BLOOMINGTON , CA  Arrived at FedEx location

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2016 11:09 AM  PHOENIX , AZ  Left FedEx origin facility

Tuesday, Apr 19, 2016 1:36 AM  PHOENIX , AZ  Arrived at FedEx location

Monday, Apr 18, 2016 11:18 PM RECIEVED PHOENIX, AZ


----------



## iggyworf

I believe I have seen this one awhile back. And now again.  The label is not like the one on Bob's bottle. But more familiar.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7up-Extreme...845825?hash=item2cab42d8c1:g:hz4AAOSwQYZWwO00


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

My (precious) paper label bottle is still in transit but should be here by Saturday. And no word from my dump digging friends, yet. I believe they had to travel to the location I sent them to and they might be staying over a few nights. But I expect to hear from them soon.

In the meantime, I have been trying to put together a chronology timeline for 7up paper labels and determine a transition from one label to another. The only problem is, applying a specific date to a particular label is a lot easier said than done. In fact, I have never attempted anything so confusing. There are so many different variations of paper labels that its difficult to figure out what's what. However, I did discover that a lot of paper labels have the following slogan printed on them ... 

*Seven-Up
Settles the 
Stomach

For Hospital
or home use*

... as seen on the amber bottle pictured below. 

The earliest date I can find for that particular slogan is *1934*, which can be seen in the attached newspaper ad. Even though inconclusive, this at least establishes that that particular slogan was being used at least as early as 1934. Which brings us back to the slogan on my eBay paper label bottle, which is ... 

*Drink After Eating -
Before Retiring -
On Arising -*

And even though the search continues, the paper label on my eBay bottle is still the only example of that slogan I can find. That is, except for on the repro decals from the 1970s that claim that particular label is from 1931.

Amber Bottle with Stomach/Hospital slogan. Exact date unknown but used on lots of paper labels ...




Newspaper ad with Stomach/Hospital slogan. Sedalia, Missouri - 1934 - Earliest I can find!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

Which is just one of the reasons I think the paper label on my eBay bottle might be *pre-1934*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Regarding the Rare 7up ACL bottle that's currently on eBay and closes today at 1M Pacific time ...

I placed a bid of $200 but was 'automatically' outbid by bidder 1***3 (1180) who seems determined to win it. $200 was my max so we'll see what it ends up selling for. It wouldn't surprise me if it ends up near or possibly over $500 ???

Its currently at $202.50


----------



## Jbeas31

SODAPOPBOB said:


> Regarding the Rare 7up ACL bottle that's currently on eBay and closes today at 1M Pacific time ...
> 
> I placed a bid of $200 but was 'automatically' outbid by bidder 1***3 (1180) who seems determined to win it. $200 was my max so we'll see what it ends up selling for. It wouldn't surprise me if it ends up near or possibly over $500 ???
> 
> Its currently at $202.50



Sorry I havent replied to your last post Bob. I will reply in the next few days. Congrats on the early paper label buy as well. 
 Ive been watching that one as well and had a couple bids in, but I'm out now. I think it will go really high as well. I say $350.


----------



## iggyworf

WOW!!!!!   372.67$. I still hope one of us won it.


----------



## jblaylock

What was so special about that one?

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

jblaylock said:


> What was so special about that one?
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk



Possible one of a kind / only known example from 1937 with a never-before-seen back label that has all the goodies on it, including ...

1. Settles The Stomach
2. For Home or Hospital
3. Alkaline Reaction 
4. Fresh Up
5. Never Stir


----------



## Jbeas31

Jblaylock.  The bottle had a nice red 8 bubble shield label, embossed u7p neck, and a very odd back label saying with an ACL "frame" around it.


----------



## iggyworf

The label on the back of the bottle. Probably extremely rare. This is the only one we have ever seen. It looks to be from 1937.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Jbeas31 said:


> Sorry I havent replied to your last post Bob. I will reply in the next few days. Congrats on the early paper label buy as well.
> Ive been watching that one as well and had a couple bids in, but I'm out now. I think it will go really high as well. I say $350.



Jbeas31

Thanks - Maybe my paper label bottle will turn out to be a one-of-a-kind-only-known-example like your orange swimsuit bottle and the one that just sold on eBay. You guessed pretty close on the closing price for the 'back-label' bottle.


----------



## iggyworf

oop's


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

According to the USPS Tracking, my bottle should arrive tomorrow (Friday)  :flag:


----------



## jblaylock

Sheesh, now you guys have me looking at 7up bottles
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## SODAPOPBOB

My paper label 7up bottle arrived today and I think I have figured out the bottlers name. But because I'm right in the middle of cleaning out a storage shed and have stuff scattered all over my deck, I don't have time to say more at the moment but will definitely be back later with more information - part of which will totally boggle your mind!


----------



## iggyworf

Can't wait to see what you discovered!!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Unfortunately, this is all I have time for at the moment, but it should be enough to whet your whistle until later. I still have a lot of research to do, and some pictures to take, but I'm pretty sure I'm on the right path ...





Here's the mind boggling part I mentioned earlier. Its another Tyler Brothers bottle - but what is it? Among other things, notice the *white swimsuit* girl, not to mention the *threaded* bottom. It appears to be an 8 bubble bottle from circa 1937-1938. If this isn't a one-of-a-kind bottle, then I don't know what is!

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/seven-advertising-bottle-fountain-51513922


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

1. There is an *NP* on the edge of the bottle cap but I don't know what it stands for yet. 

2. The embossing on the base is definitely not a 3, and looks more like an 8. However, if it is an 8, its not a normal looking 8. It actually looks more like a *&* symbol than it does an 8 or anything else. But I have no clue yet what a so called *&* symbol might stand for! 

(I'll be back as soon as possible with more)


----------



## iggyworf

Now that is wierd. I like what i'm reading Bob. Good work.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I will be posting some pictures later today and some additional information about the paper label bottle, but wanted to share this first ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Meet ...

*The Tyler Brothers*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

When the bottle arrived the upper-right portion of the label was already detached and so frail that I could barely handle it without the risk of it falling apart. So I treated it with an archival paper preservative and then laminated it in plastic to preserve it permanently. It turned out great and hopefully will stop the deterioration process. I also treated the portion of the label that was still on the bottle with the same preservative and will be taking some pictures of it later today. In the meantime, here's the part I laminated in plastic ...

Note: The entire label measures 2 1/2" High by 3 1/2" Wide. The red 7up logo itself is about the size of a postage stamp and measures 7/8" square.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And here's the bottle itself without the entire label ..

Note: I'm still trying to capture a decent picture of the symbol/number on the base, but I'm having some difficulty with the focus because its so small. I will keep trying and hopefully accomplish it eventually. I'm also trying to get a good picture of the NP on the cap, but haven't yet. 

On a scale of 1-10, I rate the bottle a solid 9.0 with only the slightest scratches, but no chips, cracks, or pings. All in all its a beautiful example. What I find most interesting about it is its size and color. I have a circa 1937-38 7up acl bottle and the base diameter measures 2 1/4" and is a 7 ounce. Whereas the base diameter on the paper label bottle measures 2 1/8" and is obviously smaller than the acl bottle. I can't say for certain right now, but I suspect the paper label bottle is either a 6 ounce or 6 1/2 ounce bottle at the most.

As for the color, the glass of the paper label bottle is obviously green, but is slightly more transparent than the glass of a typical 7up bottle. 



The paper label is shown with the preservative already applied but is not noticeable.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

My 1937-38 acl bottle and the paper label bottle are the same height of exactly 8"


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

For the time being I've given up trying to get a good picture of the base mark and the NP on the cap, but I might try later. In the meantime I did this illustration of both. I'm still not sure if the base mark is an 8 or a Symbol, but the line definitely loops back over itself in the center as shown in my drawing. Most embossed 8s look like one circle on top of another without it overlapping in the center. There is no 'tail' on the 8/Symbol to suggest that it might be a cursive lower case 'g'

The NP on the cap is connected as shown in my drawing, but I'm still not sure what it stands for ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

I forgot to mention I can lay the laminated label on the bottle and because the lamination is crystal clear it causes the label to look attached just the way it did in this eBay picture ...


----------



## iggyworf

Excellent. It looks like a 'one of a kind' so far.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

iggyworf said:


> Excellent. It looks like a 'one of a kind' so far.




iggy

Thanks

Now all I have to do is ...

*Prove It!*

Including ...

1. That it is in fact a 'Tyler Brothers' 7up paper label bottle
2. That it is in fact a 'Circa 1931' 7up paper label bottle

Which I haven't done yet by am trying my best to do! There's gotta be another paper label like it out there 'somewhere' but I ain't found one yet!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

For future reference ...

Tyler Brothers bottling plant locations as of *1958*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

Their headquarters was located in Villisca, Iowa, but they did not have a bottling plant there - only offices, etc.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I sent an inquiry to the Atlantic Coca Cola Bottling Company in Atlantic, Iowa, which was founded by the Tyler Brothers in 1929. I wasn't able to attach any pictures, but the query did include my email address so they can contact me. I described my bottle and the label, and asked if they had one like it. I received a confirmation that my email was properly sent, which also said they would get back to me as soon as possible. I'm keeping my fingers crossed they will have the pictures and information I can't find anywhere else. I will let you know when I hear back from them. Here's their home page link that has some basic history and early pictures. The company is still operated by a third generation of Tyler's. Check it out ...

http://www.atlanticbottling.com/our-company/about-us

Here's a postcard of their Coca Cola plant that was built in 1940



And here's what the building looks like today. Notice the 'Tyler Bros. 1940' above the window


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

One of the things I'm 100% certain about is ...

The name on the paper label is definitely *TYLER*. I used a 30-power magnifying loupe and can clearly make out every letter even though some of them are only partially visible. And the letter on the right is definitely a capital 'B'


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

The top portion of the E in TYLER has the 'points' that are identical to the 'points' in the letter T  

E T


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Such as ... 

TYLER


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

Even though the letters 'L' and 'E' are barely visible to the naked eye, enough of them can be seen with a loupe to confirm their presence.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the confirmation reply and message I sent to the Atlantic Coca Cola Bottling Company ...

Note: I removed my personal email address and cell phone number.

Dear Bob, 

Thanks for contacting us at Atlantic Coca-Cola Bottling Company. We’ll be in touch as soon as we can. 


Summary of web form submission:

Your Name: Bob Brown

Email Address:

Case Number: 3992493

Cell Phone Number:

Comments/Enquiries:

I have what I believe to be a Tyler Brothers 7up bottle from circa 1931. It has a paper label that's unlike any I have ever seen before. Its possibly one the first 7up bottles ever produced. I'm hoping you can help me accurately identify and date it.

I would be happy to send some pictures of the bottle, but unfortunately I cannot do that with this particular contact. I would be especially interested in finding a picture of a similar paper label. Any assistance you can provide me with will be very much appreciated. 

Thank you

Bob Brown 
San Diego, Ca.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Still searching ...

According to this 1997 newspaper article, it sounds like the Tyler Brothers might have been involved with 7up's test market period between about 1929 and 1930. Especially when you take into account what the article says about Charles Grigg giving samples of extract away to see what people thought of it. Charles Leiper Grigg was born in 1868 and died in 1940.


----------



## Photon440

Just a coincidence I'm sure, but your NP logo is similar to Nocking Point:


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Photon

Thanks!

That's the same lettering - but according to what I found on "Nocking Point" it has something to do with 'wine' that was established in 2012. 

I contacted the Crown Cap Collectors Society and asked them for help. I will let you know what they have to say if/when I hear back from them. 

I haven't heard from the Tyler family @ Atlantic Coca Cola Bottling, and not sure I ever will. Its been about a week since I contacted them and I'm hoping someone is working on my inquiry and will eventually send me a reply. Otherwise, I've pretty much hit a dead end with trying to date and find out anything else about my bottle.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

By the way ...

I might have to change my name to "*No*sodapopbob" because just yesterday I sold about 95% of my collection to one guy. I did okay, but still sad to see the bottles go after spending the better part of 40 years collecting them. However, it wasn't a total sellout because I kept about 50 of the best and most valuable bottles, which are primarily Big Chiefs and other western related themes!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

But I still have the "Tyler B???????" 7up bottle.


----------



## iggyworf

SODAPOPBOB said:


> By the way ...
> 
> I might have to change my name to "*No*sodapopbob" because just yesterday I sold about 95% of my collection to one guy. I did okay, but still sad to see the bottles go after spending the better part of 40 years collecting them. However, it wasn't a total sellout because I kept about 50 of the best and most valuable bottles, which are primarily Big Chiefs and other western related themes!



Bob, I am a little sad to hear that. Why the parting of the collection? If it's ok to ask?  I know we can't keep em forever. They are like an investment of sorts. (there is a nice 'bryan nimms 7up on ebay right now.)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

I don't mind your asking at all. And yes, they are like investments, which is one of the reasons I sold them. I'm 64 years old, retired, and tired of having them boxed up. My three daughters, ages 31, 37, and 39, have absolutely no interest in them and wouldn't want to mess with selling them even thought I had compiled a detailed list with current values. My daughters were the ones that advised me to let'em go because they would probably just give them to the first person who came along who expressed an interest in them no matter what the value. I suppose I could have sold them on eBay but just don't have the inclination to deal with that. Besides, I'm really more into researching soda bottles these days than I am in collecting more and more of them that just end up in boxes. Now I can focus on my "Big Chief" and other Cowboy/Indian ACL bottles that I have about 50 nice examples of. By the way, I also collect souvenir "Tomahawks" from the 1950s and 1960s and will be adding to that collection as well. I just got one tomahawk recently that's still in its original packaging with an original paper label from the 1950s. Examples with original packages are almost impossible to find. So, as you can see, I'm still a collector of sorts, but just not of every soda bottle I find like I used to back in the day when I kept almost everything I found. I sold about 400 bottles and some other collectibles, and made a pretty good chunk of change in the process!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

In case you're interested, here's the souvenir Tomahawk in its original package that I was talking about. Notice it was made in Japan and originally cost 10-cents. This will give you some idea of what I look for and collect. I currently have about 30 examples that are from all parts of the country (some have locations printed on them) but I prefer the ones from the western part of the U.S. such as Arizona and New Mexico. They are hard to date! 

My oldest example is from the Grand Canyon and probably dates between about 1900 and 1908. It is hand made by Native Americans and was probably sold to tourist who used to visit the canyon before it became a National Monument in 1908 and a National Park in 1919.


----------



## Photon440

That's an interesting item to collect.  The Japanese version looks like a bamboo handle, historically accurate no doubt.


----------



## iggyworf

Thanx for sharin Bob. Those Tomahawk's are pretty cool. And thanx for all the help in researching bottles we bring up here.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Good News!

I heard from a member of the Tyler family and I sent him some pictures. I'll let you know what he has to say when I hear back from him.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I heard from the Tyler family member and he said he did not have any information at his fingertips right at the moment but that he would look into it and get back to me. He also sent me a contact for the Dr. Pepper museum in Waco, Texas and suggested I contact them as well, which I have already done and hope to hear from them soon.

(Stay Tuned)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I heard from the Tyler family member again but it appears he is giving me the brushoff and not interested in digging into their archives for more details. Basically, he passed me off to the Dr Pepper museum in Waco, Texas and that appears to be all the help I'm going to get from him. There is no question that I have the right Tyler family because the following is who I contacted in Tyler, Texas ...

Note: As far as I know, the town name and the family name is just a coincidence. 

https://tylerbeverages.com/pages/about-us

1. Kenneth A Tyler was the son of Henry F Tyler of Villisca, Iowa
2. Kenneth was born in 1927 and died in 1996
3. The (Villisca, Iowa) Tyler's bought the bottling plant in Tyler, Texas in 1953-54

However ...

There are still two more inquires I'm waiting to hear from. Hopefully one or both of them will have some information ...

1. Atlantic Coca Cola Bottling - Atlantic, Iowa - Still operated by the original Tyler Brothers  
    descendants.

2. Dr Pepper Museum - Waco, Texas

1953 Newspaper 



Kenneth A. Tyler - From link


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## SODAPOPBOB

I still haven't heard from anyone, and starting to think I never will. But if I do, I'll be sure to share what they have to say.

In the meantime, I want to revisit a newspaper article I posted a portion of earlier, but this time I'd like to emphasize a couple of things. The article is from ...

The Des Moines Register ~ Des Moines, Iowa ~ November 11, 1962

[ Cropped into sections for easier reading - Sequential top-to-bottom ]











And here's the part I want to emphasize. Notice where it says ...

*"Howdy" was added to the Tyler brothers line in the late 1920s."*

If the Tyler Brothers added "Howdy" to their line in the late 1920s, then it stands to reason they were on the ground floor for the introduction of 7up from day one, which in itself was probably in the late 1920s, or the very-very early 1930s at the latest. With that said, if I can confirm that my paper label bottle is indeed a Tyler Brothers bottle, then its possible that it's even earlier than I originally thought. As far as the "Slenderizing Lady" trademark date is concerned, I know that most references say 1931, but I need to do some additional research and see if I can find additional confirmation on that, or if it was possibly used any earlier than 1931. But whatever that official date might be, I'm still hoping ...

1. That my bottle is indeed a "Tyler Brothers" bottle.
2. That my bottle eventually dates to 1931 or earlier.



(I'll be back)(Especially if I hear from someone)


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## SODAPOPBOB

I have pretty much given up hope of receiving any replies from my inquires - I guess they are just too busy or possibly not interested. But that's okay because there are certain aspects about the paper label on my bottle that speak for themselves. At this juncture, which involved an exhaustive search, the following aspects are the only known examples I am currently aware of that exist on a 7up paper label from any time period ...

1. The wording ... "Drink After Eating - Before Retiring - On Arising"



2. The underlined 7up 



3. The name "Tyler"



4. What I call the "Bubble-Arm" Slenderizing Lady (With a bubble that dissects her right arm)


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

If anyone ever finds a 7up paper label that contains one or more of the above features, please share it with us. As it stands now, I consider it a one-of-a-kind


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## SODAPOPBOB

As far as dates are concerned, the wording on the Trademark doc-u-ments is a little confusing as to exactly what pertains to what, but the earliest confirmed dates I'm aware of are ...

*August 7, 1928*

Notice it includes the words 'bottles' and 'label'




*February 5, 1929*


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## SODAPOPBOB

This is from a Cecil Munsey article, and even though he does not describe it in detail, nor attribute a date to it, the wording suggest it is referring to a paper label - that could very well be 7up's first label. Notice under the 7up that it does not include the words "Reg. U.S. Pat. Off." So does this mean that its pre February 5, 1929? I'm not sure either, but hope to find out one of these days. If indeed this is the first 7up paper label, then maybe the one on my bottle is their second label. ???


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## iggyworf

That's excellent Bob. I take it you won't be selling this one? LOL There are some interesting 7up bottles on ebay right now I am watching. They have different variations than the normal ones. Nothing like yours but still cool for the 7up collector.


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## SODAPOPBOB

iggy

Because I only paid about $14.00 for my bottle, that's what I currently feel its worth. 

But what if ...

1. The paper label was in near mint condition?

2. It was a confirmed "Tyler Brothers" bottle?

3. The date was confirmed as 1931 or earlier?

4. It was the only known example?

If all of the above pertained to my bottle, what would it be worth then?


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## iggyworf

After seeing how much the 'one of a kind' back label bottle went for, yours, if all your criteria were in place, could be worth just as much or probably a lot more. 250$ and up. Maybe closer to 500$.


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## SODABOB

iggy / Rich

I just came across this Tyler Brothers 7up bottle that sold on eBay this past July 1, 2016

Notice:

1. Its an eight-bubble bottle
2. It has the Owens-Illinois mark ... *3 <(I)> 1 . *(With a dot)  
3. It also has 'Duraglas' embossed on the base 

As you know, Duraglas was a glass hardening finish that Owens-Illinois introduced in/around 1940. Which suggest the *1 . *stands for *1941

*What do you make of it? I thought the last of the standard-size green 7up bottles that had eight bubbles was produced around 1938-1939 at the latest. Please refresh my memory. Are you aware of any standard green 7up bottle with eight bubbles that was produced later than 1939 and as late as 1941? And is there anything about the slogan on the back that will help date it? I'm confident the 1 . does not stand for 1951 

Thanks 

Bob


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## iggyworf

Here is the chart for the bottles.


If I read it correctly, doesn't it state it may be possible for that bottle? I believe that would be back label #3. I actually just got 2 7up bottle's with that back label. I will check them out again later. They are not 8 bubble though. I agree it is not 1951.


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## SODABOB

Rich

Thanks. I forgot about that chart even though I have it on file. Charts are better than memories! And, yes, it indicates there were 8 bubble bottles in 1941. But 1941 seems to be the latest they were made. I wish I had seen that Tyler Brothers bottle earlier and I might have bid on it. Here's the eBay link for those who want to check it out. It sold for $17.51

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-7-U...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## iggyworf

Bob, glad I could help again. I missed that bottle also. And that one was defiantly in my price range.


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## Tony AZ

found this 6 1/2 oz 7up the other day any value in this condition ? thanks tony AZ


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## SODABOB

Tony

Welcome to the forum.

The condition hurts the value but I like the fact that its a 6 1/2 ounce instead of the usual 7 ounce. It looks dug and might increase in value after its been cleaned. What's embossed on the base in the way of a makers mark and date?


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## Tony AZ

it's got the # 42 followed by # 43 then a letter C then the # 24 then what looks like a spaceship followed by # 7... Tony AZ...........


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## iggyworf

Looks like a 1937 bottle? Excellent!


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## SODABOB

Yes, 1937

24 <(I)> 7 

But with that Owens-Illinois mystery plant #24 that I've seen before and believe was located in California, but can't recall if it was in the Los Angeles or San Francisco area. Notice that none of the attached charts list plant #24 ...







I'm going to double check my files and/or look around and see what I can find. I know I have encountered that plant location before but just can't recall where it was at the moment.


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## SODABOB

According to Bill Lockhart, Owens-Illinois plant #24 was located in Los Angeles, California and in operation between 1932 and 1937

This link has an updated chart and a lot more information about Owens-Illinois ...

https://sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/OwensIll_BLockhart.pdf


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## SODABOB

You might also like this ...

*1933 Owens-Illinois Catalog

*Click on File #19 for an amazing display of soda bottles ...

https://sha.org/bottle/oi1933.htm


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## SODABOB

Tony

The one thing we didn't address is your question about the bottle's value. The poor condition of the label really hurts it. The main thing it has going for it is that its a 6 1/2 Ounce. That's pretty unusual because about 99% of the early 7up bottles are 7 Ounce. A collector who doesn't have a 6 1/2 Ounce and just has to have one is probably your best bet. I'm thinking if it cleans up without causing anymore damage to the label, and the fact its a 6 1/2 Ounce, that you might get about $10 for it. Otherwise it doesn't have much value. Collectors are pretty particular these days and unless a bottle is extremely rare they usually want them in near-mint condition. If your bottle was in near-mint condition I'd offer you $25 for it, and I feel that's being generous. 

You initially said "found this the other day." Does that mean you found it in a dump or in an antique shop? If in a dump, I'd go back and look for more. If you find another one just like it that's in near-mint condition, then you'd really have something.

Thanks for sharing 

Bob


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## iggyworf

Yes thanx for showin us that bottle. I don't recall ever seeing one that had 6 1/2 oz on it.


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## jk666

Just to play along...I recently dug this 1948...


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## Tony AZ

Thanks everyone for all the replies-yes it was dug at a dump-i rarely find bottles with painted labels though...  Tony AZ....


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## jblaylock

I picked this up today... Something about it looked different.







Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Eric

wow nice.. another one with the 7up outlined in white. where is it from? nice pick up!


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## jblaylock

Eric said:


> wow nice.. another one with the 7up outlined in white. where is it from? nice pick up!


Didn't have a location. I'll take a pic of the back of it tomorrow.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## jblaylock

Is this one worth anything guys?
















Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Eric

someone else bought one like that don't know what they paid.. but it is unique due to the 7up logo being reversed... if you place it up for sale.. say on ebay be sure to mention that and maybe use another common 7up bottle along side it to show the difference. I didn't notice it the first time around and I have 100s of 7up bottles!   
seems to be a harder one to find for sure.


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## iggyworf

I just recently got one of these. Here is the link to my thread. Awesome find Josh!
I can't remember exactly what I paid for it. Around 20$ I think. 
I remember now, I paid 31$ for mine. 


https://www.antique-bottles.net/showthread.php?686920-7up-different-ACL-coloring


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## jblaylock

Iggy,

Thought you may be interested in this these.  I know this seller a little, he's from KY and has a large bottle collection.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-Double...133566?hash=item282b3d5cbe:g:mwEAAOSwax5YnT8X

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-26-oz-...0a36390&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=172524133566


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## iggyworf

jblaylock said:


> Iggy,
> 
> Thought you may be interested in this these.  I know this seller a little, he's from KY and has a large bottle collection.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-Double...133566?hash=item282b3d5cbe:g:mwEAAOSwax5YnT8X
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-26-oz-...0a36390&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=172524133566




Thanx for the leads Josh! I will keep an eye on them. Very nice!


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## Jbeas31

jblaylock said:


> Is this one worth anything guys?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk




I havent been on the forum in a while jblaylock. It appears as though you have another oddball reverse 7up script bottle. Im not sure if you saw my post on Iggy's thread regarding the same type bottle but I also own one of these with identical markings. I found mine on eBay from a seller from Mooresville, IN got it for $10.00 
I believe they are all coming from Indiana. Must have been a single plant producing them there.


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## iggyworf

jblaylock said:


> Iggy,
> 
> Thought you may be interested in this these.  I know this seller a little, he's from KY and has a large bottle collection.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-Double...133566?hash=item282b3d5cbe:g:mwEAAOSwax5YnT8X
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-26-oz-...0a36390&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=172524133566




  Josh, those bottles went for some good prices. Unfortunatly I was out bid on them. They went past my price limit.


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## Jbeas31

Iggy there is another mid embossed bottle without the paper label right now on ebay. I have purchased one from him but have not received it yet. Apparently he has several. I offered him $25 w free shipping for mine.   

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940s-7Up-S...988702?hash=item58ef2f7c5e:g:JXsAAOSw-0xYmO55


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## jblaylock

Yeah, I was watching them just to see what they went for.  Must have been rarer bottles I suppose.


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## iggyworf

Yes, they were some good bottles!


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## jblaylock

iggyworf said:


> Yes, they were some good bottles!




Whatabouttheseiggy...........sorry.my.spacebar.will.not..work.on.this.forum......notsurewhy....it'sonlydoingthathere.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-Double...957255?hash=item282c1f8dc7:g:2IwAAOSwax5Yr4nu


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## iggyworf

Jbeas31 said:


> Iggy there is another mid embossed bottle without the paper label right now on ebay. I have purchased one from him but have not received it yet. Apparently he has several. I offered him $25 w free shipping for mine.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1940s-7Up-S...988702?hash=item58ef2f7c5e:g:JXsAAOSw-0xYmO55



That's a nice one also! I will keep an eye on that. Thanx for the tip!


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## iggyworf

jblaylock said:


> Whatabouttheseiggy...........sorry.my.spacebar.will.not..work.on.this.forum......notsurewhy....it'sonlydoingthathere.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-Double...957255?hash=item282c1f8dc7:g:2IwAAOSwax5Yr4nu



Wow! seems like you are talking in jibberish.lol     Hope you get that figured out. I like those two. I just got another one like that 2nd bottle. There seems to be a few more like that showing up.


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