# 10 sided base & slug plate questions



## butchndad (Aug 11, 2021)

This is a photo of my three Simon James bottles.  The one on the left has no visible slug plate, the middle has a round one and the right a “tombstone” shape. Does that help narrow down the year?  Also the center and right have a ten sided bottom below “registered”. Again what indication of age is that?  Thank you for your help


----------



## butchndad (Aug 12, 2021)

beer


----------



## Dogo (Aug 12, 2021)

Most likely- 1880-1890


----------



## epackage (Aug 12, 2021)

All 3 are 1890's sodas, not beer as suggested. The blob is early 1890's, the hutches look to be later than that, could be turn of the century. James was in business from 1891-1925


----------



## butchndad (Aug 12, 2021)

epackage said:


> All 3 are 1890's sodas, not beer as suggested. The blob is early 1890's, the hutches look to be later than that, could be turn of the century. James was in business from 1891-1925


Hi E
where are you getting that they are soda not beer, and the time James was in business, from?  Not disputing what you're saying - just trying to learn.  I'm finding next to nothing about Simon James thru google.  Not when they were in business and not what they made.  Thanks for the help


----------



## PlaneDiggerCam (Aug 12, 2021)

butchndad said:


> Hi E
> where are you getting that they are soda not beer, and the time James was in business, from?  Not disputing what you're saying - just trying to learn.  I'm finding next to nothing about Simon James thru google.  Not when they were in business and not what they made.  Thanks for the help


I believe that Hutchinson bottles which are what you have there, were patented for Soda beverages. See more info on them at (http://hutchbook.com/).

The James is a squat blob bottle which held soda or mineral waters, often they are called squat sodas.


----------



## epackage (Aug 13, 2021)

butchndad said:


> Hi E
> where are you getting that they are soda not beer, and the time James was in business, from?  Not disputing what you're saying - just trying to learn.  I'm finding next to nothing about Simon James thru google.  Not when they were in business and not what they made.  Thanks for the help


I have all his history from Ancestry and he was a soda water dealer in all the directories. Hutches were NEVER used for beer, hope that helps...


----------



## butchndad (Aug 13, 2021)

epackage said:


> I have all his history from Ancestry and he was a soda water dealer in all the directories. Hutches were NEVER used for beer, hope that helps...


"Hutches were NEVER used for beer"
WOW! i did not know that
that does help and thank you


----------



## epackage (Aug 13, 2021)

butchndad said:


> "Hutches were NEVER used for beer"
> WOW! i did not know that
> that does help and thank you


My pleasure...


----------



## EXCHF5200 (Aug 18, 2021)

The 10 sided bottle could possibly be an Atwoods Jaundice Bitters bottle. Kinda common


----------



## Fruitjar (Aug 18, 2021)

Never saw a hutch that was a beer. Soda and mineral waters. Circa 1890-1910 approximately


----------



## Bohdan (Aug 18, 2021)

epackage said:


> I have all his history from Ancestry and he was a soda water dealer in all the directories. Hutches were NEVER used for beer, hope that helps...


Never say "never".


----------



## hemihampton (Aug 18, 2021)

I always wondered what were in the Hutch's that had a Brewing Co. or Brewery Name on them?????? LEON.


----------



## epackage (Aug 19, 2021)

hemihampton said:


> I always wondered what were in the Hutch's that had a Brewing Co. or Brewery Name on them?????? LEON.View attachment 228771View attachment 228772


Many brewing companies also bottled soda and mineral water, which is why you have many hutches like these Leon. I have at least 7 or 8 Paterson NJ bottlers who bottled both soda/mineral water and regular beer...


----------



## epackage (Aug 19, 2021)

Bohdan said:


> Never say "never".


NEVER...


----------



## epackage (Aug 19, 2021)

Some of my Pfannebecker bottles Leon, the hutches contained soda and mineral water, the blobs for beer, the stoneware could have contained either...


----------



## UncleBruce (Aug 20, 2021)

hemihampton said:


> I always wondered what were in the Hutch's that had a Brewing Co. or Brewery Name on them?????? LEON.


If you ever get tired of that ALPENA I would be glad to give it a new home.


----------



## Bohdan (Aug 20, 2021)

epackage said:


> NEVER...


cute


----------



## epackage (Aug 21, 2021)

Bohdan said:


> cute


If you can show a brewer bottling beer in hutches please do...


----------



## Bohdan (Aug 21, 2021)

epackage said:


> If you can show a brewer bottling beer in hutches please do...


I'm just saying that I have enough experience and common sense to say that you may be surprised at what you can learn and discover. Presuming to KNOW that bottlers NEVER bottled beer in hutches is simply foolish arrogance


----------



## epackage (Aug 21, 2021)

Bohdan said:


> I'm just saying that I have enough experience and common sense to say that you may be surprised at what you can learn and discover. Presuming to KNOW that bottlers NEVER bottled beer in hutches is simply foolish arrogance


Pretending you know what they did is equally foolish. 

"Soda and mineral water are carbonated drinks and they were bottled in Hutchinson bottles because the carbon dioxide exerted pressure on the surface of the liquid and the rubber disk at the bottom of the Hutchinson Patent Spring Stopper, and that pressure held the stopper in place so the liquid remained fully carbonated until the bottle was opened and the contents consumed.  Beer at the time hutches were used is a "still" (not carbonated) drink and if it had been bottled in Hutchinsons, there would have been no internal pressure to hold the stopper in place in the neck of the bottle." - Ron Fowler, world renowned hutch expert


----------



## hemihampton (Aug 21, 2021)

The one thing Beer had that carbonated drinks didn't have was Pasteurization which also exerted much pressure. if that pressure remained long enough to hold a hutchinson stopper in place I don't know? The Pressure happened during the Pasteurization Process but don't know if it remained or subsided. LEON.


----------



## Bohdan (Aug 21, 2021)

epackage said:


> Pretending you know what they did is equally foolish.
> 
> "Soda and mineral water are carbonated drinks and they were bottled in Hutchinson bottles because the carbon dioxide exerted pressure on the surface of the liquid and the rubber disk at the bottom of the Hutchinson Patent Spring Stopper, and that pressure held the stopper in place so the liquid remained fully carbonated until the bottle was opened and the contents consumed.  Beer at the time hutches were used is a "still" (not carbonated) drink and if it had been bottled in Hutchinsons, there would have been no internal pressure to hold the stopper in place in the neck of the bottle." - Ron Fowler, world renowned hutch expert


I disagree. If you've ever made beer you will know about the gases ( and pressure) created in the process. Especially British & German brews.
NEVER say "never", son.


----------



## UncleBruce (Aug 21, 2021)

Be at peace.  This is a very old argument and I have never witnessed any documented proof for either position. Hutchinson bottles are very cool in their own right regardless of what they held.


----------



## hemihampton (Aug 22, 2021)

hmmm.


----------



## American (Aug 24, 2021)

That base is called a "mug base"


----------



## epackage (Aug 30, 2021)

hemihampton said:


> hmmm.View attachment 228924


It's tough when someone who knows very little about bottles speaks as if he knows more than the guy who invented hutchbook, and who has all the knowledge 40+ years in the hobby regarding hutches....


----------



## Bohdan (Aug 30, 2021)

epackage said:


> It's tough when someone who knows very little about bottles speaks as if he knows more than the guy who invented hutchbook, and who has all the knowledge 40+ years in the hobby regarding hutches....


Oh lighten up

… and never say "never".


----------



## butchndad (Aug 30, 2021)

American said:


> That base is called a "mug base"


any general time period when mug bases were used?


----------



## American (Sep 1, 2021)

butchndad said:


> any general time period when mug bases were used?


I have seen mug bases on 1850's pontiled sodas all the way to 1900's Hutches


----------

