# Price's Patent Candle Co.



## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

Anyone have a value for a light cobalt Price's? Why is it a medicinal? What did it contain? Why a candle company?

 Thanks,

 Ron


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 11, 2006)

Price's Patent Candle Co. was just that, a candle company. They made candles, parafins, dyes, holders etc.. I think I saw a light cobalt on ebay at about 90 and the dark cobalt go for over $100. The light I believe was later and some if not all were ABM, is yours? I had 2 of the dark I sold in the 80's for $35 ea. Wish I had them now.

 They're still around.
Price's Patent Candle Co.
 Clich the HISTORY tab


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## GuntherHess (Feb 11, 2006)

They are British imports (that's probably common knowledge).
 They must have been made over a huge span of time. The pontil ones can sell pretty high but there is a lot of variation in the values. I think sometimes people mistake them for American bottles.


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## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

> Price's Patent Candle Co. was just that, a candle company. They made candles, parafins, dyes, holders etc..


 
 Eric...

 Why, then, aren't they listed under household or some other category other than medicine? Any ideas?


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## walkingstick (Feb 11, 2006)

There is a technique called candling, for the treatment of earache, in which candles were (are) actually inserted into the ear and lit.  This supposedly draws out the bad stuff, including making the earwax easier to clean from inside the ears.  

 This is an old technique and could be put into the category of "quackery".


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 11, 2006)

I don't know what book you have. My Sellari from the 70's and the 12th ed of Kovels has them under household. Oh, I see, you'll have to take that up with Matt. Whatta you say Matt, they are in your Med book.


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## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks, Wil...

 That's a pretty interesting idea...

 Ron

 PS... do you have any Wolfies (besides your beautiful dog), mineral waters, bitters, inks, etc. that you'll be disposing of from your collection?


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## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

> 12th ed of Kovels


 
 Actually, Eric, the 2 latest Kovel's and Megura's all list it under medicine as well... I guess they were hedging they're bets!

 Ron


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 11, 2006)

Oh yeah, I got a double category in the 12th. I never did find them the most reliable resource but maybe Wil is right. The practice did exist.

 Also





> The candle was one of the earliest forms of artificial light. Simple to produce, portable, adaptable, in some cases edible;


 so I suppose it could go into the FOOD cat as well.

This page has a lot more on Prices but I still didn't see a medicinal us.


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## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

Eric...

 This may be it:

 By the end of the century the company was the largest maker of candles in the world with a reputation that extended beyond candles to soap, lubricating oils and glycerine.

 Glycerine has medicinal uses:

  Gray's Glycerine Tonic, by John F. Gray  	 Glycerine, gentian, Taraxacum (dandelion), sherry wine, phosphoric acid  	 "digestion aid, stimulates the appetitie"

 Ron


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## walkingstick (Feb 11, 2006)

Besides my 3 beautiful furry wolfies, I have 1 glass one that I will not part with and I think I will keep my Hostetters.


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## Bluegrass (Feb 11, 2006)

I recently dug a sapphire 1870 variant with the contents still in it, and can guarantee that this stuff was meant to be burnt. The wax in the bottle was mixed with paraffin which kept it liquid, I suppose and highly flammable. It was a nightmare to clean. I'll wager that many a victorian home was burned to the ground as a result of accidents with this stuff!. The sapphire variant sells for about $125 and the deep cobalt $150-200. I once dug a pontiled one broken--in LIME GREEN!!! Imagine the price tag on that one! You can see the sapphire one on my site www.privypages.com

 John


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## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

Thanks for the information, John...

 The one I bid on and missed by a couple of bucks went for $143 and change...

 Ron

 PS... What have you got against archeologists? (I was one in a former life... May still be one...)


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm still curious of what Matt may have to say. I figure I'm wrong and would like to know. Why do people put this under Medicinal?


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## GuntherHess (Feb 11, 2006)

My book isnt strickly medicines. It also contains a few bottles that are normally listed as medicines. For example GENUINE ESSENCE bottles could certainly be listed as food or household but are almost always listed under medicines. I try to include early pontil "medicine like" bottles even if they arent strickly medicines because the people who collect medicines are often interested in these bottles too. Its often not obvious what bottles contained without a lot of research. So far no one has complained. I may weed out some non-medines as the number of listing grow.


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## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

> I may weed out some non-medines as the number of listing grow.


 
 Don't do that, Matt... The more, the better, I say...


 Ron


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## Bluegrass (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm sure that it's put under medicines simply because it's a British bottle that hasn't been thoroughly researched-- kind of like T&M (BEAR'S OIL bottles) getting listed as inks.

 John


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## Bluegrass (Feb 11, 2006)

Nothing really against archeologists...lol-- just the ones who are forever looking disdainfully down their pointy noses at privy diggers.

 John


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 11, 2006)

I'm not complaining, I love the book!!! If a few odds and ends get in the mix, GREEAAAT!! as Tony would say. Sorry if it seamed like a dig, no, wrong word for here, definitely. How 'bout dis?
 All appologies as needed to all.
 Eric


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## bearswede (Feb 11, 2006)

> just the ones who are forever looking disdainfully down their pointy noses at privy diggers.


 
 That wouldn't be me...


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## GuntherHess (Feb 11, 2006)

> Price's Patent Candle Co


 From what I have read, one of the contents was glycerine, which could be considered medicinal. 
 You may ask "what is an English bottle doing in an American price guide". My thought was to list some English bottles (ones that didnt have obvious city names on them) so collectors would know they are imports . You can often tell British bottles just by the lip style, color, or other features. Some of them are a bit harder to tell. Nothing against the British , but for the most part I don't see as much interest (and value) from American collectors in those bottles. Its good to know if you are paying for what looks like a rare medicine to know if its American or foreign.


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## grimdigger1 (Feb 11, 2006)

These are readily collected as cures in the UK ,,They contained a type of glycerine which was taken a a cough cure either on its own or mixed with honey etc to make it taste better..
 These bottles are also found with prices patent soap company embossed instead of candle and the soap ones are twice the price of the candle varieties..
 The come pontilled and non pontilled in aqua and light blue ,cobalt blue in two sizes the double capacities are very rare ..
 Ther is also an amber one in existance but the whereabouts of this bottle is unknown since the 1980s


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## portland med. man (Feb 11, 2006)

here`s one i dug up in maine very nice bottle and from what the boys over the pond say somewhat rare , especially in the us....


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## portland med. man (Feb 11, 2006)

here`s a cool druggist i got at the same place pure drugs...


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## Bluegrass (Feb 11, 2006)

Hi Grim--the one I dug certainly had paraffin and wax in it. Once you took the cork out, it stunk to high hell. I just can't imagine that being swallowed by anyone. 

 John


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## Bluegrass (Feb 11, 2006)

Here's a link that might help

  http://www.vauxhallandkennington.org.uk/candles.shtml

 I have read three different articles on the company and none suggest that anything was ever made for human consumption. They do mention a salve for burns and skin disorders. They also speak of the paraffin+wax mixture I spoke of: it was used for burning in oil lamps etc. Then, of course, there is the soap they made. Boy I'd love to see a pic of one with soap company written on it--must be rare as hens teeth!

 John


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## capsoda (Feb 11, 2006)

Glycerine is rendered from animal fat and is used as a medicine, in candle making and in fat burning lamps, among other things. 

 Paraffin is a by-product of gasoline and is used in candle making as a lubricant and to make plastic, among other things.

 Wax comes from bees and is used in making candles, as a lubricant and in foods and medicines and too many other  things  to mention.

 The bottle you have probably held _kerosene_ which was called _paraffin oil_ in Old English and Colonial English. It was used as a medicine to sterilize wounds and to move the bowels and as lamp oil. 

 You can referance anything I have stated in dictionarys and encyclopedias plus I have witnessed the use of kerosine to sterilize wounds on humans when I was a boy. The really old timers used it for alot of weird things.

 Hey Matt, I'd say leave it in your book. If you take out all the quack medicines your book will only be 2 or 3 pages. LoL


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## Bluegrass (Feb 11, 2006)

No one doubts your profound knowledge on the subject of glycerine and its multiple uses!
 I'm only interested in what was in the Patent Candle bottles. The link I gave is a brief summary of their products. Don't take my word for it, take theirs. []

 John


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## David E (Feb 12, 2006)

Only one I find in "FIKE"
 WITCH CREME PRICE
 DRUGGIST SALEM MASS

 Advertised 1875; 1910, AD
 Color & Dimens. unk.

 Dave


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## bearswede (Feb 12, 2006)

> the subject of glycerine and its multiple uses!
> I'm only interested in what was in the Patent Candle bottles. The link I gave is a brief summary of their products.


 
 Clearly, the company produced glycerine which had medicinal properties and was likely to have been sold in the bottles in question (and, no doubt, these generically labled bottles contained other products as well such as the one you dug)...

 Mystery pretty much solved...

 Ron


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 12, 2006)

OK, I just bought a steak which I'll probably need after this comment but if I get a black eye and put the steak on it is it then a medicinal steak?
 All fun aside, lots of products had more than one use. This is where we get  most of our ideas from. Almost all have been from seeing one thing and using for another. 
 Cotton is used for clothing and bandages. Mix booze with honey and it's cough syrup. Sell them seperate and ones a drug and the other is food. Turpentine is a muscle rub and a wood cleaner etc.

 I think the question remains at what did the maker intend it for? I still have to vote for household. I'm not saying I'm right or your wrong, there's a lot of grey in this world but that's my opinion.

 Well, off to shovel some more. Have a great day.


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## grimdigger1 (Feb 12, 2006)

There are some labeled ones in collections in the Uk will try and find a pic of one ..
 They have always been collected as cures in the UK ,,but this may be wong ??? one to ponder [sm=rolleyes.gif][sm=rolleyes.gif]


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## bottleboy311 (Feb 14, 2006)

My vote is for a household or manufacturing item. I don't think glycerine was in these bottles they are much too large. Yes glycerine was used for medicinal purposes and may have been sold in large amounts for that purpose. But Prices's was not in the medicine business. They were making and selling consumer products, soaps, candles etc. Glycerine may just have been another product to make and sell that would compliment their other products. 

 Glycerine has been and continues to be used for many industrial and non-medicinal purposes. It is used as a lubricant, a cleaning agent,it is an additive in certain type of inks, it is used as an additive to soften and rejevenate products like rubber and certain types of plastics, and it is used as a release agent for lining in molds. All of these purposes, would require only a small amount. I use to use glycerine in the making of rubber products and never bought or saw a bottle of glycerine over 2 ounces.

 Price's Patented Candle Co. made soap products and glycerine may have been an additive for their soaps. Also it could have been used in a the candle making process to line the molds so the wax would not stick to the metal. However, for either of these purposes, I don't think it would have been sold in a bottle as large as the Price's. Prices's Patened bottles are probably 10 to 12 ounces at least. Most likely, these bottles held the wax, soap or paraffin. That amount of glycerine, 10 to 12 ounces, would have been over kill for the consumer making candles or soap. If glycerine was used as a release agent, or an aditive, one or two ounces would last for at least 6 to 10, 12 ounce bottles of wax.


 Lee 

 [sm=lol.gif]Oh and by the way Ron, if sherry wine is medicinal, I am going to have my Doctor write me and my wife some Rx's. I could use the medical write-off on my taxes next year.


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## deepbluedigger (Feb 14, 2006)

The glycerine was largely a by-product of the production process for candle manufacture. When Prices started out in 1830 the glycerine was mostly dumped into the river Thames (the factory was alongside the river) as a waste product, but a wide market was found for the stuff starting in about the 1850s (the diamond shaped embossing on the bottle is a British registered design symbol, the coded letters and numbers dating the design to December 1853 - this is the earliest possible date for these bottes, but they still had the diamond embossed into the 1880s or 1890s). 
 The glycerince was used for medicinal purposes, and was certainly in many cases, although probably not all, sold as such, at least in Britain. It was used externally as a skin treatment, especially for burns, and was used internally to aid digestion.
 The pontiled examples would date to about 1854 - 1865.
 The known colours in the UK are various shades of blue, aqua (much less common than the blue) and amber (only one known - it was dug in good condition way back in the 1970s, and then was accidentally broken about 20 years later!!). A real lime green one with a pontil, as mentioned above, would be a mega-rare bottle.
 There are also very rare double - capacity examples in blue. Roughly quart size.
 Another rare variation in blue is embossed 'Prices Soap Company Limited', but is otherwise about identical to the candle Co bottles.
 DBD


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## deepbluedigger (Feb 14, 2006)

Forgot to mention - the bottle was used for glycerine. There are a number of examples with original labels in various collections over here in Britain. This is a pic re-photographed from a magazine (ABC-UK, #14), of a candle co bottle with label.







 DBD


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## deepbluedigger (Feb 14, 2006)

Try again - maybe it will work this time......


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

We're still going on this! The one I dug had the paraffin-wax solution still in it and dated to 1870. The contents were used for burning in oil lamps. It's quite possible that over the next 40 years, all kinds of other stuff wound up in the bottles as the company and its products expanded. The newer ones that are dug primarily in the UK were certainly mass produced and probably had various different products in them. Why we ever started arguing about what single product was in the bottle, I'll never know. Now we can all be shiny, happy people holding hands and let peace and freedom rule eternal. God bless Price's Patent Candle Company. Amen!

 John.


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

Very neat that you have that photo, you'd think there'd be more. I think my partner still has the shards of the lime green, pontiled version. I'll try to get a picture of them next time I see him. I wouldn't be so obstinate about the lamp oil issue if the bottle I dug had not still had the cork in it and foil remaining around the top. When I popped that cork out to clean out the contents, my entire house stank like paraffin for the next two days!

 John.


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## baltbottles (Feb 14, 2006)

Ok heres a question for you. What do you think was in the wedge shaped pontiled Davis & Miller Druggists Baltimore bottles these are about the same size as the price's bottles and the same wedge shape? Theres also 3 or 4 other american pontiled "medicines" in this size and shape what do you think these contained?

 Chris


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi Chris.... I'd love to see pics of them. Never even heard of them. Do you think they were trying to rival the Price's company? By the way, the snow should be melting up there soon[&:]

 John.


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## bearswede (Feb 14, 2006)

> Why we ever started arguing about what single product was in the bottle, I'll never know. Now we can all be shiny, happy people


 
 As far as I know, no one was arguing for a single product... The original question (mine) was why the bottles were listed under medicine... That these bottles were used for a variety of products, I think, was assumed...

 A lot of these replies seem to have an edge to them... I think delving into these questions about bottles and what they might have contained is a valid exercize, but we should all, perhaps, take ourselves a little bit less seriously...

 Ron

 PS...Thanks, Jerry, for that great info!!!


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

I just can't help it! I'm a very, very serious kind of guy. But I'm with you there. I know enough about glycerin now to start my own manufacturing plant. I'm going to put it in 2oz, 4oz, 6oz, and ( jumbo)  20oz wedge shaped, cobalt blue bottles. []


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

> ORIGINAL:  bearswede
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## grimdigger1 (Feb 14, 2006)

Whilst digging tips we find all sorts of bottles that were used for purposes other than what they were made for 
 Lots of stoppered beers sodas are dug containing ,paint ,linseed oil , other oils ,creosote and even parrafin ,
 People did and still do use bottles and jars for storage Jam jars are often used for paint  etc
 Just because your bottle contained parrafin / wax when dug doesnt mean it was the original contents ,[8|][8|][8|]


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## capsoda (Feb 14, 2006)

I agree with Ron and David. Most people are just trying to be helpful in stating what they find or know and it's referances. If you don't agree gust say I don't agree and state your cause. No need to be all high strung about it.

 Hey Ron , At least you know glycerin is one product that was put in them by the manufacturer.


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## bearswede (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks, Warren...

 And for the record, up until a few years ago we had a bottle of glycerine hanging around the house that was about quart-size and which had been purchased at the drug store...

 Anyway, I'm trying to find out more about the Price's that's on ebay now... Might just take a shot at that one...

 Ron


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## baltbottles (Feb 14, 2006)

Hey John,

 Heres a picture of the Davis and miller wedge. Its shaped like the prices and is about the same size. this is the large size there is also a unique smaller size. I don't have pics of the other american wedge bottles but they are listed in greer. He had almost everything. My large davis and miller wedge is ex greer collection.


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## baltbottles (Feb 14, 2006)

Heres the smaller size variation

 Chris


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## capsoda (Feb 14, 2006)

Hey Chris, Those are some very nice boyyles you got there. Very crude.


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## bearswede (Feb 14, 2006)

> boyyles


 
 A little to your left, Warren...

 Chris... What kind of pontils do those babies sport? Nice bottles!

 Ron


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## capsoda (Feb 14, 2006)

Thanks Ron.[&:]

 Hey Chris, you can get some salve for them boyyles and replace them with Bottles.[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]


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## baltbottles (Feb 14, 2006)

Hey Ron,

 The larger of the two has a nice black full iron pontil. The smaller one has an open pontil.

 Chris


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

Hi Grim... not with the cork and foil still on them. I think that speaks for itself. However, if you can tell me how a bottle with it's cork and foil still on it could possibly have been refilled with a foreign substance, I would greatly appreciate it. In the meantime, I'll take another pill for my high-strungedness! 


 John.


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

> You can referance anything I have stated in dictionarys and encyclopedias


 
 Exactly Cappy!


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

Has anyone ever heard of a shaggy dog story?


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## Bluegrass (Feb 14, 2006)

I finally found a pic of a Price's with a label. This ought to put the record straight.


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## capsoda (Feb 14, 2006)

LoL. Thats a good one John.


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## Bluegrass (Feb 15, 2006)

Lol...just trying to show that I'm not all that serious!


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## deepbluedigger (Feb 15, 2006)

Sorry - I had no intention to wind anybody up! I was just posting info that is taken pretty much for granted in the UK about these bottles, but which I thought from the previous postings was not widely known in the States.[8|]
 On the subject of refilling, I have a labelled Prices bottle in my own collection. It's an English bottle with improved / iron pontil, but with the American label shown here stuck to the back! Shows just how re-cycled this kind of container was, way back when.
 DBD


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 15, 2006)

I found a med bottle which lists glycerine and paraffin as active ingerdients. I states it as a salve for all boyyles.
 Sorry I couldn't resist. Here is a legit sort of crossover bottle I found though. It's a med and cosmetic.
 http://cgi.ebay.com/FULL-LABEL-MENTHOLATED-COLOGNE-FOR-HEADACHES-BOTTLE_W0QQitemZ6251651783QQcategoryZ895QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## capsoda (Feb 15, 2006)

Hey Jerry, That a cool bottle and label thing you got going. Love it keep the pics comming.

 LoL Thats a very necessary med sometime Eric. LoL


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## GuntherHess (Feb 16, 2006)

Another early Price's clone...
 http://cgi.ebay.com/JOHN-FABERS-ELIXIR-OF-ORYZA-N-Y-OPEN-PONTIL_W0QQitemZ6253509043QQcategoryZ895QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 Wedge shaped medicines are cool


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## NORG (Feb 16, 2006)

Here's one that is on the UK Bottle Digging Forum...



http://www.proforumhost.com/viewtop...s=0&postorder=asc&start=60&mforum=grimdigger1


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## bearswede (Feb 16, 2006)

> Wedge shaped medicines are cool


 
 They are indeed, Matt!! But I must say, not much of a repair job on this one... Would it be worth doing over? Just a little heat to get rid of the old resin, you think?


 Ron


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## GuntherHess (Feb 16, 2006)

That's a very rare bottle , I've never seen one sell. Its listed in Greer but I think even that one was damaged. I've never tried to do an un-repair on resin. heat should soften it but it may damage the bottle more if there are cracks.
 If I was a NY pontil med collector i'd probably risk it.


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