# Another Amber 7up Question



## Jbeas31 (Jul 14, 2016)

Came across this Amber 7up on eBay and took a chance on it. 

A COOLER OFFA FRESHER UP
ALKALINE
REACTION
SETTLES THE STOMACH


MIN CONTENTS 7 FL OZS


29S6 embossed on heel 
no markings on the bottom of the bottle. 


 
 


Condition is not the best. But it is a standard type Amber bottle. The Amber 7up chart only lists the San Diego plant as having made this bottle in 1936.

Ive seen a few of the embossed U7P bottles similar to mine, but can't find any right off that aren't embossed.


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## RCO (Jul 15, 2016)

I like the amber colour , you don't really see a lot of them , don't think 7 up used these for very long


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 19, 2016)

Jb

Nice find even if in poor condition!

Even though I live in the San Diego area I still don't have one of the slim-ambers. They are a favorite with local collectors and command top dollar in excellent condition. They were made for two years in 1935 and 1936 and only produced in San Diego. I have seen lots of them over the years but never one in pristine mint condition. Examples in near mint condition can go for as much as $700

Here's a picture of one in somewhat descent condition that sold on eBay in 2014 for $449.95



And here's the chart you referred to that was compiled by local historian and collector Cecil Munsey


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 19, 2016)

P.S.

Jb 

I'm surprised there are no markings on the base. Every example I've ever seen was made by Owens-Illinois and has Star Beverage Co. on it like these ...





Have you examined your bottle closely for a makers mark?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 19, 2016)

P.S. ~ P.S.  

I'm also surprised the neck isn't embossed with u7p - It appears you have a variation I've never seen!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 19, 2016)

To give you some idea of value vs. condition, here's one that sold on eBay in May of 2015 for $142.50 ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 19, 2016)

Here's the back label on a typical San Diego slim-amber for those who might never have seen it ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 19, 2016)

By the way ...

The amber 7up is the second most valuable and sought after San Diego acl there is. The rarest and most sought after is the "30 Below" that is practically impossible to find in any condition. These particular examples belong to a friend of mine and the values shown are for bottles in near mint condition ...

View attachment 173401


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## Jbeas31 (Jul 19, 2016)

SODAPOPBOB said:


> P.S.
> 
> Jb
> 
> ...




Those were both things that surprised me too. 
That it was not embossed with u7p. That there are no markings on the base. I would have thought at the very least it would have an Owen-Illionois mark but it doesn't. 


I was wondering what the "29S6" markings meant on the heel though? 

I have seen pics of the one I believe you photographed in a local museum near you. 

I did okay then based on the valuations of the others. $40 + a little shipping. 
I wish the back were more legible but it is what it is.


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## iggyworf (Jul 20, 2016)

Great find! I still do not have any type of amber 7up. But hopefully soon.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

Speaking of amber 7up bottles ...

I came across this example from London, England. I don't know when it was produced or much else about it other than it is a seven bubble and has the acl shield on the neck. Maybe one of you can approximate the date by the slogan on the back. I would have tried to date it myself but just found it and haven't had the time. I don't know if its genuine or if its been altered / nuked ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

Jb

I'm checking now to see if I can figure out what the 29S6 might stand for and if that same code is on any other 7up bottles. The only thing I can say at the moment is that I'm confident the amber 7up's from San Diego were only produced in 1935 and 1936 but doubt that code refers to a date. Its most likely a style/mold code of some type ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

For the record and research purposes ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

Here's a possibility for the 29S6 but it needs more research because the dates don't quite jive ...

16S (or with other 2-digit number between 16 and 29). In most cases indicates production by the American Bottle Company, at their Streator, Illinois plant location. Mark is seen mostly on the lower heel area on soda and beer bottles. The number usually precedes the letter, but in some cases the order may be reversed. These marks were used by ABCO at least during the 1916-1923 period, and evidence from bottle collectors indicate these date code markings may have been used as early as 1905 (when American Bottle Company was incorporated), all the way up to at least 1929 in some cases. Owens Bottle Company, which purchased the six glass plants of the American Bottle Company in 1916, continued the operation of only two of those ABCO plants (their Newark, OH & Streator, IL locations) under the American Bottle Company name until 1929, and used this type of marking on many of their bottles. See “AB”, “A.B.CO.” and “17N” marks.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

P.S.

Is it possible the 'S' stands for "Streator"


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

Which takes us to this ... 

Note: Maybe the 29S6 was a 'carry-over' mold/style that Owens-Illinois used for some reason as late as 1935-36 ???

A.B.CO... American Bottle Company (1905-1929). Chicago, Illinois (office – 1905-1916); Toledo, Ohio (office – 1916-1929).  Glass plants were located at Streator, Illinois;  Newark, Ohio;  Belleville, Illinois;  Massillon, Ohio  &  Wooster, Ohio.  The American Bottle Company was purchased by Owens Bottle Machine Company in 1916 (with some of the plants being closed soon afterwards) but the Streator and Newark plants continued to operate under the American Bottle Co. name until 1929, when they became part of the merger that resulted in Owens-Illinois Glass Company. (For Streator and Newark plant marks from 1916 to 1929, see “17N” and “16S” entries). Most, if not all, of the “AB”, “AB CO.” and “A.B.CO.” marked bottles are believed to date between 1905 and 1916. However, it is possible that some bottles with these markings might date between 1916 and 1929, but, if so, could only have been made at either the Streator or Newark plants.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

And maybe it translates like this ...

29 = A.B.CO. carry-over code used later by Owens-Illinois
S = Streator, Illinois Plant
6 = 1936


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 20, 2016)

Advanced reading for possible clues to 29S6 mark ...

https://sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/AmericanBottleCo.pdf

https://sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/American_BLockhart.pdf


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 22, 2016)

Jb

It strikes me as more than coincidence that your amber 7up bottle has the same type of mark as that of the American Bottle Company. In fact, the ABCO is the only glass maker I can find that used a mark like that! Notice at the bottom of the attached chart where I placed a red X where it says the following about the 25S through 31S marks ...

"The use of these codes continued for the first year or so after the plant became part of the Owens-Illinois Glass Co."

Note: The Owens-Illinois Glass Company was formed in 1929

In other words ...

I'm thinking your amber 7up bottle was made by either the American Bottle Company at the end of their tenure in 1929 or by Owens-Illinois at the beginning of their tenure 1929. But regardless of which of the two companies made it, I believe its highly possible that it was made in 1929. Another reason I suspect this is because your bottle does not have u7p embossed on the neck. Yours is the first and only amber 7up from San Diego I've ever seen that doesn't have u7p on the neck. Notice on pages 345 and 346 of this link where it talks about a national trend in the soft drink industry around 1916 to move away from fully embossed bottles and move towards bottles with paper labels. 

https://sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/AmericanBottleCo.pdf

Because your bottle doesn't have u7p on the neck, or any other type of brand identification, I'm thinking it was made in 1929 and intended for a paper label. I'm also thinking that your bottle was part of the left-over inventory when Owens-Illinois bought out the American Bottle Company. 

In other words ...

I'm thinking its highly possible that your bottle started our as a generic stock bottle and was then repurposed by Owens-Illinois when the ACL process became available around 1934-35. With that said, I no longer think the 6 stands for 1936, but that the 6 is merely part of the original 29S6 code and is possibly a mold number for a bottle that was actually made in 1929.

In other words ...

If my assertions are correct, I'm thinking its highly possible that your 29S6 amber 7up bottle precedes those with the u7p on the neck and that your bottle could very well be not only the first 7up ACL bottle from San Diego but possibly one of, if not the very first, 7up ACL bottle made by anyone. I just wish there was some way of determining exactly when the 7up ACL label was applied to your 1929 bottle. The earliest known 7up ACL was made in 1935. Wouldn't it be cool if the ACL label was applied to your bottle before 1935?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 22, 2016)

P.S. 

I'm not certain when the Star Beverage Company of San Diego was established, but I do know they are listed in the 1933 San Diego city directory, which is early enough for our purposes here!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 22, 2016)

Jb

It just dawned on me that your bottle may not be from San Diego. I just assumed from your opening remarks that it was from San Diego. But having reread your remarks, I see now where you merely indicated that the only slim-ambers of that type were from San Diego. And, yes, the only slim-ambers I'm aware of are from San Diego. Even though this changes things as to what bottler actually distributed that particular bottle, the following questions still remain ... 

1. Who made it? The American Bottle Company, Owens-Illinois, or someone else?
2. When was the bottle made? Was it in 1929 or later?
3. When was the ACL label applied? 
4. Which U.S. bottler used/distributed it?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 22, 2016)

P.S. 

I just spoke on the phone with two of the top soda bottle collectors in San Diego and neither one of them is familiar with the bottle in question. However, they suspect it is not from San Diego, but, like me, are not aware of any other bottler that used the slim-amber version. So it appears that what started out as a little mystery has now become a big mystery.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 22, 2016)

Update ...

I checked all of the usual places but cannot find a slim-version amber 7up bottle that isn't from San Diego. Every example I found was from San Diego and has the embossed u7p on the neck. So your guess is as good as mine as to who bottled the one in question. However, it could be from San Diego even though it isn't marked as such. ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 22, 2016)

This is from Cecil Munsey's collection, which he describes as a 1935 from San Diego. It's the best example of the slim 7 ounce bottle that I'm aware of ...

(Cecil did not include a picture of the base or back label, but part of it can be seen in this image)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 23, 2016)

Jb

Are you ready for this? Well, hold on to your hat because I'm seriously thinking there is a possibility that ...

1. The 29S6 mark on your bottle is for 1929 when the bottle was made

2. Your bottle was not 'repurposed' from old stock but was new when the ACL label was applied  

3. The ACL label on your bottle was applied in 1929 when the bottle was made and not in 1935-36 

I realize this defies almost everything we thought we knew about the ACL process and when 7up introduced their first ACL, but who among us can say with 100% certainty that the ACL process was not being experimented with in 1929? According to Cecil Munsey, the ACL process was actually being experimented with as early as 1920. As for 7up itself, most of us know that their trademark documents state its earliest use was August 7, 1928. So, again, who can say with 100% certainty that 7up did not produce some experimental prototype ACLs as early as 1929? The main reason I'm thinking this is because of the 29S6 mark and the distinct possibility it refers to 1929. As for repurposing old stock bottles, that's just a theory that needs more research to confirm or refute. Am I speculating about all of this? Yes, I am speculating. And yet, even with that said, I believe we have just enough to go on to warrant a closer look into this. It could very well lead to a dead-end, but then again, it might lead to ... ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 23, 2016)

For starters, this is from a *1930* Owens-Illinois catalog ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 23, 2016)

Reminder from the American Bottle Company chart I posted earlier ...

Reminder:  The Owens-Illinois Glass Company was established in 1929


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 23, 2016)

Just for the record ...

When I first discovered the 1930 Owens-Illinois catalog a few years ago I was skeptical about the date so I contacted the source through an email and Barbara Floyd of the Canaday Center at the University of Toledo sent me a reply and confirmed the date for me as having definitely been published in 1930. Here's a picture of Barbara with the actual 1930 catalog. At the time I saved images of several pages from the catalog, one of which I posted earlier about the 1930 Applied Color Lettering bottles ...

Meet Barbara Floyd!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 23, 2016)

Plus there's this for the 1930 catalog ...



And this 1931 Owens-Illinois book/catalog that I personally own and still have ...





And this ... 

That I need to confirm the date and source for because I'm not sure at the moment exactly where I got it other than what my title describes. I'll dig out the 1931 book later and see if it is in fact in that particular publication ...


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## Jbeas31 (Jul 23, 2016)

Well now I'm even more excited about this new addition to my collection. 
I look forward to seeing everything else you are able to dig up. 

Also did you see the Amber slim standard bottle I own, posted on another forum topic? Which is not embossed on the neck. It has "The Howdy Company" on the label. 


Speaking of Amber 7ups I came across this stubby on eBay. That has an embossed 7up underline on the base. Which matches your Tyler Bros bottle. 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/262540115141


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Jb

1. It would be interesting to know what the Makers Mark is on the amber 7up bottle with The Howdy Company paper label.

2. I've seen those 7up bottles with the underline and thought the same thing about a possible connection to my Tyler Brothers bottle, but I haven't been able to make total sense of it yet.

3. Because I/we are entering uncharted waters with your 29S6 bottle and the distinct possibility that its a 1929 bottle with what should be a circa 1935-36 7up ACL label, I would like to go on record and say that my continuation into this is based entirely on Bill Lockhart's findings in that he claims the following, which I scanned from his article about the American Bottling Company that I posted a link to earlier. If Bill Lockhart is correct about the American Bottle Company marks 16S through 29S, and your bottle has the same or similar marks, then those so called uncharted waters might now be on an entirely new course that has never been entered before. 

Furthermore, if the 29S6 mark does stand for 1929, and we question what an apparent 1935-36 ACL label is doing on a 1929 bottle, then I feel we need to question just about every ACL ever produced and ask if those Makers Marks and date codes are accurate as well. As far as the "repurposing" of old bottles with new ACL labels goes, I feel that is an open topic that needs some additional research as well. Especially if we're talking about a possible repurposed bottle like the one in question with a possible six or seven year gap between 1929 and 1935-36.  

Printed/Scanned/Saved from Bill Lockhart's article ...

1 of 4




2 of 4  ~ Bill doesn't show a picture of a 29S6 mark, but he does show this 16S-2 mark 



And here's the amber 7up ACL bottle 29S6 mark for comparison



3 of 4 ~ Which is a continuation of 1 of 4



4 of 4

Notice the part where Bill Lockhart says ... 

"These marks are found *almost exclusively* on Select-style *soda bottles* in emerald green and *amber* colors." 

Also notice where he says ...

"Use of the mark extended into the *first year* of production (1930) of the new Owens-Illinois Glass Co." 

He doesn't even hint at the possibility that the mark continued to be used as late as 1935-36


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

In other words ...

1. At the moment I'm comfortable with the possibility that 29S6 stands for 1929.

2. At the moment I'm confused why a possible 1935-36 ACL label is on a 1929 bottle.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

I rotated and enhanced Jb's images so we can take another look at this mysterious 1929/1935 bottle and see if there is something about it that jumps out at us and says "boo" ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

In Search of / Question

Does anyone have a so called "repurposed" ACL bottle they are 100% certain about, and who can provide us with information as to how you are certain it was repurposed? This question especially applies to ACL bottles with a five+ year gap between when the bottle was made and when the ACL was applied. 

Note: I looked around but haven't been able to find one, yet!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Just for the record ...

This the earliest ACL soda bottle currently known and that has been confirmed. It was found several years ago by member Morbious_fod and most of the images are courtesy of him ...

Jumbo  ~  A Super Cola  ~  1934

Bottle Patent



Bottle Front 



Bottle Base  



Advertisement ~ Notice the coupon in the lower right corner and the expiration date of Oct 1, 1934





And this newspaper article I found from ...

The Kingsport Times News - Kingsport, Tennessee - September 20, 1934







Cropped lower portion of the 1934 newspaper article


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Soooooo...

Is Jbeas31's bottle a contender for the earliest ACL or is it just a boo-boo bottle?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Notice in this thread I started in 2011 where member Celerycola said in Post #9 ...

"Streator IL plant of Illinois Glass was still using the old mark in 1930. I have bottles marked with 29S and 30S" 

https://www.antique-bottles.net/showthread.php?396393-WEEKEND-WONDERS

It would be nice if celerycola was aware of this new discussion and shared some images with us of his 29S and 30S bottles. 

By the way, I believe Celerycola's 1930 reference for "Illinois Glass" is a typo and he actually meant "Owens-Illinois Glass." I say this because Illinois Glass and Owens Glass merged in 1929 to become Owens-Illinois Glass. Illinois Glass was no longer in existence in 1930. 

Here's a Bill Lockhart article about it ...

https://sha.org/resources/newsletter-articles/owens-illinois-glass-company/


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Here's a fully embossed Pepsi Cola bottle that Reggie Lynch says is embossed on the heel with 29S and that its a circa 1929 bottle. I'm searching now to see if I can find another one like it that actually shows the 29S

By the way, I quit searching for 30S bottles because my dumb computer thinks I'm looking for 30's bottles!

http://www.antiquebottles.com/rl/pepsi/


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## iggyworf (Jul 24, 2016)

Bob, here is another Pepsi with the '29S' clearly on it. This one is from Durham NC. From the Ayers vol 2 book. I am searching for more.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Speaking of 29S Pepsi Cola (Pinch/Peanut) bottles and member Morbious_fod, this bottle is from Morb's website and shows the 29S mark. Now that I know where to look for the mark, I can just barely see it on the Reggie Lynch bottle I posted. Its on the right just above the heel. But who made these Pepsi Cola bottles and when, I'm not exactly sure just yet. 

http://www.tazewell-orange.com/marionbott.html


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

iggyworf said:


> Bob, here is another Pepsi with the '29S' clearly on it. This one is from Durham NC. From the Ayers vol 2 book. I am searching for more.
> 
> View attachment 173540View attachment 173541




iggy / Rich

Mucho Gracias' 

Your picture is better than mine! Does the book say who made those bottles?


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## iggyworf (Jul 24, 2016)

No it does not, but here is the pat # '80587'


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Rich

Thanks for the patent number - I'm going to check it out and see what I can find out about it.

Here's another one of the Pepsi Cola "peanut/pinch" bottles I found but I'm not sure if its a 29S or a 30S. It kind of looks like a 30S to me! But the mark is on the base and not the heel. ???


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## iggyworf (Jul 24, 2016)

Some of the 'pinch' or 'waisted' style bottles in the ayers guide have some 'root' numbers. That would signify the Root Glass co.? I did find the Atlanta bottle in there also with the 29S mark.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

iggyworf said:


> Some of the 'pinch' or 'waisted' style bottles in the ayers guide have some 'root' numbers. That would signify the Root Glass co.? I did find the Atlanta bottle in there also with the 29S mark.



Hmmm ... Verry Intrresting! 

The Root Glass Company became part of the Owens-Illinois Glass Company in 1932

http://www.glassbottlemarks.com/root-glass-company-terre-haute-indiana/


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## iggyworf (Jul 24, 2016)

Here is the patent for the 'pinch' bottle. Filed in 1929 but given in 1930.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Rich

Here's the link to the original patent for the Pepsi Cola bottle being discussed ...

Filed: August 20, 1929
Registered: February 25, 1930 

But no mention I can see about which glass company(s) eventually produced them. The 1930 date suggest it could have been ...


1. The Root Glass Company

or ...

2. The Owens-Illinois Glass Company

or ...

3. Both Companies

https://www.google.com/patents/USD8...ved=0ahUKEwjVsujTj43OAhXEK5oKHcwuCJAQ6AEIHDAA


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

P.S.

As far as I know, the Pepsi Cola 'Pinch' bottles are extremely popular with collectors. With all of the hoopla that's associated with them, surely someone must know who produced them! Or is that a big mystery, too?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Here's a Pepsi Cola 'Pinch' bottle that sold on eBay for $53.65 on July 10, 2016

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1920s-DECO-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

The makers mark on the base is for the "Graham Glass Company" and I believe the G29 is for 1929. The Graham Glass Company became part of the Owens-Illinois Glass Company in 1929


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Okay, fine! But who made the 29S Pepsi Cola 'Pinch' bottles and Jb's 29S6 amber 7up bottle?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Its time for a few more comparisons to see it these marks are the same or just similar ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Just for the record ...

According to various, reliable accounts, the Owens-Illinois Glass Company was officially established on ...

April 17, 1929

... which was four months *before* the Pepsi Cola 'Pinch' bottle patent was filed on August 20, 1929


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 24, 2016)

Update ...

I can only speak for myself, but based on what I've seen so far I'm strongly leaning toward the possibility that Jb's 29S6 amber *bottle* was made in 1929. As for the ACL 7up label on the 29S6 amber bottle, well, that's a horse of a different color that has me totally confused because everything I know about 7up ACLs points to it as being a 1935 label at the very earliest. However, I'm not ready to throw the towel in just yet and will keep searching and hoping for a logical explanation to present itself. The best explanation I can think of at the moment is that a 1929 bottle was repurposed with a 1935 ACL label. But even that is unconfirmed and subject to controversy and needs more research to either confirm or refute. 1929 to 1935 is six years, and that seems like an awfully long time for any glass company to continue using old-stock bottles.


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## Jbeas31 (Jul 25, 2016)

Bob I have not had a chance to read through all of your posts on this thread yet. 
Hopefully, by the end of this week, I will be able to photograph both the 29S6 bottle and the Howdy paper label. My home is in disarray with a flooring install and all my bottles are in a cabinet in a room filled with furniture. 

The Howdy Amber Bottle has on the label:
Best Ever Bottle Co
Phone Arcadia (2543 or 2943)
Arcadia, Calif
The Howdy Co

Update: I found pictures of the Amber Paper label.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 25, 2016)

Jb

Your "Best Ever Bottling Co." bottle is mucho interesting. If it wasn't for the paper label there would be no way of identifying it as being a 7up bottle. I took a quick look around and according to this first ad about their 11th anniversary it places their start date at about 1924. I haven't been able to determine yet if they ever bottled Howdy Orange or when they first started bottling 7up, other than they were definitely bottling it in 1935 as the second ad indicates. Notice in the first ad that their phone number was 2343. The owner/manager was a gentleman by the name of Charles Beery. The majority of the ads I've seen for the company are for a brand of beer called "Balboa." I'll continue to look around and see what else I can find. 

By the way, what is the date number on the base? (Which is an Owens-Illinois mark) The 9 is for Streator, Illinois ... 9 <(I)> ?

Arcadia Tribune - December 21, 1934



Arcadia Tribune - August 2, 1935 - 11th Anniversary = 1924

Notice it says they were the only bottlers of 7up in the eastern part of Los Angeles County at the time.


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## Jbeas31 (Jul 25, 2016)

SODAPOPBOB said:


> Jb
> 
> Your "Best Ever Bottling Co." bottle is mucho interesting. If it wasn't for the paper label there would be no way of identifying it as being a 7up bottle. I took a quick look around and according to this first ad about their 11th anniversary it places their start date at about 1924. I haven't been able to determine yet if they ever bottled Howdy Orange or when they first started bottling 7up, other than they were definitely bottling it in 1935 as the second ad indicates. Notice in the first ad that their phone number was 2343. The owner/manager was a gentleman by the name of Charles Beery. The majority of the ads I've seen for the company are for a brand of beer called "Balboa." I'll continue to look around and see what else I can find.
> 
> ...





Okay youve found more than I was able to about Best Ever Bottling CO!

9 <O> 6
     6. 
           are the markings on the bottom. 
Also the number 2343 is correct to my label! 2543 was a typo. 
It is a 6 1/2 fl oz bottle as well. 

Yes, I know without the label it would impossible to tell it was a 7up bottle. 
 Ive seen so many fake paper labels out there, but this one appeared legitimate having The Howdy Co on the label and the paper seems correctly aged. 
It is missing the bubble girl portion of the label.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 26, 2016)

7update ...

Those of us who are familiar with the early-day history of 7up know that bottlers were required to provide their own bottles, which explains the various sizes and colors that appeared on the market until they finally got a handle on standardizing. Some of those early paper label bottles were green and some were amber colored. 

Notice in this "Best Ever Bottling Company" advertisement where they refer to three different sized bottles for their "Balboa" beer. 

The Covina Argus  ~  Covina, California  ~ July 6, 1934

(Covina is near Arcadia, California) 



Notice the three different "Balboa" beer bottles in this next ad. 

The Covina Argus  ~  July 13, 1934



I wonder if Jb's "Best Ever Bottling Company" amber, paper label 7up bottle started out as a "Balboa" beer bottle?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 26, 2016)

Back to the 29S6 7up ACL ...

I thought this was extremely interesting. I believe its a 'transition' mark used by Owens-Illinois in 1930. Notice it has the typical Owens-Illinois *<(I)>* mark but without the plant code and date code on either side. However, it does have *30S*. I believe the S stands for their Streator, Illinois plant and the 30 stands for 1930. I'm still digesting this information and will be back later with some comments. 

Brand = Broadway Dry Ginger Ale - New York

Base ...



Bottle ...

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/broadway-dry-ginger-ale-soda-bottle-119405096



Sign ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 27, 2016)

Here's the original patent for the Broadway Dry bottle. 

https://www.google.com/patents/USD80808

Notice ..

1. It was filed on December 28, 1929
2. It was registered on March 25, 1930
3. It doesn't have the Broadway Dry embossed script
4. It was designed by William Root, who was the son of Chapman Root, who was the president of the Root Glass Company

The Root Glass Company was bought by the Owens-Illinois Glass Company in 1932. Which tells us when the bottle was registered and patented it had nothing to do with Owens-Illinois. And yet, the Broadway Dry bottle I posted clearly has an Owens-Illinois mark. But don't be confused by this because it was not unusual for one glass maker to produce a bottle that was designed by another glass maker. I believe it was just a simple manner of paying a royalty to the original designer and that was that. It wouldn't surprise me if we looked around enough that we'd eventually find a Broadway Dry bottle that was made by the Root Glass Company. But what I find most interesting of all about this is the Owens-Illinois mark along with the 30S mark. Based on what I've seen, I'm currently of the opinion the <(I)> 30S is an Owens-Illinois mark for 1930/Streator, and that the 29S mark on Jb's 7up bottle was also by Owens-Illinois and stands for 1929/Streator.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 27, 2016)

However ...

This doesn't mean I believe the ACL label on Jb's 7up bottle was applied in 1929. I'm having a real problem with that! I'm still leaning toward a circa 1935 ACL label applied to a repurposed 1929 bottle!


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## SODABOB (Aug 10, 2016)

I recently changed my email address which resulted in my having to re-register under a different name. My new name is now ...

*Sodabob *... and was formerly Sodapopbob

Now I can get email notifications and will be posting this message on various other threads in order to get notifications from those as well.


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