# USA Med'l Dept.



## Gunsmoke47 (Apr 29, 2005)

Hey ya'll,  bout a year and a half ago Pitfinder and I were lucky enough to dig 21 USA HOSP DEPT bottles out of a military Indian Wars fort dump. We were of course ecstatic at our good fortune. Haven't found a pit anywhere as good as that again and probably never will. After a lot of reserch on the bottles, I came across a variant of this bottle in our own Mike Russell's "Collectors Guide To Civil War Bottles and Jars." I vowed to buy one if I ever came across one. It is a USA Med'l Dept. bottle made in the same time span as the Hosp Dept. bottles. Mike says it is much more scarce and this is the only one I have ever seen on E-Bay. To bad the only color is Aqua[&o]  I bought it anyway.[] Happy Diggin,  Kelley


----------



## wvbottlehead (May 1, 2005)

you got a decent deal there -  I think I bidded on that one - the MED DEPT are a bit more scarce than the HOSP DEPT. Any base markings on that one?


----------



## Gunsmoke47 (May 2, 2005)

Hi Frank, no base markings. Just a flat based Key Hinge mold. Probably blown at Baltimore. This one's got a very small chip out of the top of the lip but it doesn't detract from it. It was pretty sick when it arrived, but a few days in the tumbler and it came out lookin good.  Yeah, I didn't get a steal, but I thought 1/3 of book value was decent even with the small chip.  Thanks for the reply,  Kelley


----------



## wvbottlehead (May 2, 2005)

Here's a HOSP. DEPT I got off ebay a couple years ago. It's a pale/cornflower blue (my camera doesn't do the color justice). The color & the glop top sold me on it.


----------



## Gunsmoke47 (May 2, 2005)

Nice one Frank!  Good thing I didn't see it or you probably would have ended up paying more for it LOL![] You don't see that type of lip too often on the Aqua pints. (That is a pint isn't it?) In fact... that's a first for me. One of my diggin buddies came up with a cornflower blue example with tons of whittle, but it had the more standard flange type  lip. Happy Diggin,  Kelley


----------



## wvbottlehead (May 2, 2005)

Thanks Kelley, it's a 8" tall pint & I played heck getting it. The first auction I got outbid by a newbie. I emailed the seller (a real nice lady) & told her that if that guy didn't complete the deal to email me & I would pay the high bid price.....I never heard back from her and low & behold the same bottle was relisted a little over a month later because the first guy didn't pay! Anyhow it worked out better for me because I got it cheaper the second time.................[&:]


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

hey,just wondering how much you paid for the med'l dept bottle and if you were to sell it ....what is a fair price?also would you know a fair price for a M.D.  U.S.A?

 thanks mike


----------



## Pontiled (Apr 10, 2007)

It's good to see these beautiful bottles still showing up!  They very rarely show up on eBay, but they can be found if you continuosly look for them. When you look for them and use "U.S.A." remember to look for "USA" also, look for "MED" instead of the full name, and "HOSP' as well.  Also, for most of the Baltimore-made pieces made, when you see them (even cobalt blue) look especially for those that are extremely weak.

 Also, many years ago, I found an olive-green one with wicker covering the lettering, but the lip was a dead give away!


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi mike,have you ever seen a amber md usa with 1000 cc on the bottom?if so would you know a value?

 thanks mike


----------



## Pontiled (Apr 10, 2007)

Hi Mike,

 No. I've never seen any of them marked with CC's anywhere.  It sounds like a modern fake, unfortunately.  The early military didn't use CC's at all for any of their bottles, as far asI know.

 What size, color, and lip style does it have?

 Mike


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

Ill post a pic soon,is is not a fake or repo,very crude looks like hing marks and whittled seem with tooled top.very unusal.....look for pic in about an hour...gotta get it out of the acid wash.


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

here are tha pics.....


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

the amber has no dots after M D,but the blue one does....


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

close in on the top and seem.....


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

Tried to show the rectangle mold marks....the seem stops at the neck.


----------



## GuntherHess (Apr 10, 2007)

I agree it is not a fake or repro, I think it is just a later bottle.

http://www.medicalantiques.com/medical/Civil_War_Era_medical_and_drug_bottles.htm

*Medical Department bottles remained in issue until WWII and are easily distinguished from their Civil War cousins by the quality of the glass, more refined lip and a base often designating the bottle capacity*


----------



## Gunsmoke47 (Apr 10, 2007)

Nice bottles Mike! I am not familiar with them. I could find no info on them in any of my books. The lip style on the amber is consistant with the 1890's tooled lip but the aqua could be somewhat earlier. I wonder if the MD could stand for Maryland as opposed to Med. Dept? I will continue to look for some info for you. Kelley


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

Yes i agree,i belive this one is from the spanish american war period....i have civil war hosp and med'l like yours.this one has some weird rectangle marks neer the neck that none of the others have,and a wavy seem...


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

Thanks kelly,the only book i have is mikes civil war bottles.the M.D.  USA,is hard to find any info on.


----------



## Gunsmoke47 (Apr 10, 2007)

There I go thinking in the present![&o]  I bet Maryland's initials weren't MD at the turn of the last century![][] I tend to agree that it is a medical bottle, just somewhat later. Kelley


----------



## Pontiled (Apr 10, 2007)

I have never heard of any U.S.A. Hosp. Dept. bottles that were used after the Civil War, except for some  surplus bottles that went out west right after the Civil War. Nor has anyone presented me with any documents to show that they were used well afyter the Civil War.  I've been digging, collecting, and writing for more than 35 years, and the Civil War was my primary interest.

 Mike, I hate to say it, but your bottle looks like a later fake.  I have no idea who made that one, but some years ago, a fellow sent me a modern fake and was marketing them as that, fakes, for sale in the west.  His bottle was graphite pontiled, had identical embossing as the real one, and the color ewas right. The only difference was that it was finished with an odd lip that was never used in the production of authentic ones from the Civil War.  The real problem with his was that someone only had to break off the modern looking lip and claim it was authentic!  The mold for his repro was made from an authentic piece!

 Hope this helps you, and others, from accepting a modern fake.


----------



## RICKJJ59W (Apr 10, 2007)

Nice H.O.S.P Dept bottles heres mine dug a few years ago its one of my favorite bottles...


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

Hate to say your wrong....


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 10, 2007)

Nice one there,check out these others....guess they are fake too....somebody must have thought of faking bottles back in the 1890's just to fool us in 2007....[]


----------



## Pontiled (Apr 10, 2007)

My mistake!  For some reason, I thought you were talking about *U.S.A. Hosp. Dept*. bottles, not *Medical Department*.  There's a big history behind them, but I'm not familiar with the duration of their use.

 Now you can get on with your conversation.


----------



## GuntherHess (Apr 10, 2007)

There are definately some repro USA Hospital bottles out there that look pretty good. I wont post the sources , everyone probably already knows about them.

 My feeling on the 1000 cc bottle is its probably made after the turn of the century. The other ones look earlier. Its a neat bottle and I hope you try to research them. There seems to be significant info out there about the history of the army medical dept and the task shouldnt be impossible.


----------



## Pontiled (Apr 10, 2007)

I agree that there is lots of information out there, but I won't  be able to contribute toward the knowledge about the Medical Department bottles.  As some of you know, I had 2 strokes about 3 years ago and that stopped my bottle digging fun and writing about them.  Hopefully, someone out there will pick up his or her pen and begin making  notes on these areas of interest to so many bottle people out there.  It's a lot easier for most anyone, if they just put their minds to it.


----------



## epgorge (Apr 11, 2007)

> Hopefully, someone out there will pick up his or her pen and begin making notes on these areas of interest to so many bottle people out there


 
 Mike,
 Sorry about your health. Thanks for your dedication and interest. I nominate Mike (caldgr) as he has a collection that would make Dr. Richard Cannon proud.
 I too am a writer and presently working on what seems the impossible task of listing Small Vermont Milk dairies. The prices recently are skyrocketing! My list started in just my home town and has expanded to the valley, not even the full county, and when I think about the state and then the whole country, it gets mind boggling. Then there are the ones I don't know about and will hear about only after I release the information.
 Sign me, A Vermont regular,
 Joel


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 11, 2007)

I have been looking at all the sources i can find and have seen any,all i can find is a sentence or two about the old ones being used for some period of time after the civil war and then slowly replaced with better quality......what is puzzling is the 1000 cc one is more crudly made than the earlyer ones when you look closely.....if anyone finds any more info please let me know.

 thanks mike


----------



## RICKJJ59W (Apr 11, 2007)

I know mine is not fake I found it on the bottom of a 20 foot privy [][]


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 11, 2007)

yes


----------



## capsoda (Apr 11, 2007)

Some of those were probably use on into WW1.


----------



## GuntherHess (Apr 11, 2007)

Yes, my guess is somewhere between 1900 and WWI. Still looking for info. 
 I found info that 1000cc bottles were used at least as early as WWI


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 12, 2007)

I just know their is one them 1000 cc in that shelf on the right........look at the size of those apothacarys top right ..........cuban waters 1899,spanish american war.


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 13, 2007)

LOOKS LIKE A POSSIBILITY ON THE TABLE...


----------



## GuntherHess (Apr 13, 2007)

No great advances in medicine there...it looks like it could just as well be a Civil War field hospital


----------



## quarrylizard (Apr 13, 2007)

I belive they were in manila in that pic....


----------

