# Twinkie, Twinkie Little Star



## surfaceone (Nov 16, 2012)

​ Another cultural icon bites the dust.

 These were great in me youth. I lost track of them somewhere between middle teendom, and a nostalgia buy for my kids years ago. Not having followed Twinkies for a couple generations now, I'm a little shaky on the life of Twinkie here of late. Hell I never knew they got married. [8D]

 I'm sure others may have fond memories of Twinkies. They were always a good trading card at lunch, I recall.

 My memories as a child, and the total recall tastebud impression they made clash, gotta thank Howdy Doody for that introduction, 

 
 by the way; (youtube Doodyville Hostess commercial) with what they had become when I introduced them to my kids, many, many moons later. What had been a delicious spongecake and tasty cream center treat, had, in the intervening years, become a none too delicious confection that appeared to involve extruding. My kids disliked them thoroughly. My return to Twinkie was a big let down. I was bummed. What the hell happened? What would Andy Kaufman say?






(youtube Kaufman Interview)​


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## surfaceone (Nov 16, 2012)

Thor Saves Twinkies...


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## epackage (Nov 16, 2012)

I expect some other company to buy the rights to these and other iconic baked goods that Hostess made, so I won't mourn their passing just yet. I remember about a year ago I saw pic on Facebook a friend had posted and in the background was her daughter eating a Twinkie, it dawned on me I hadn't had one in at least 25 years, I ran right out and bought a box and a quart of milk. It was a glorious return to my youth, it has also happened with Suzy-Q's and Butterscotch Krimpets since that time...


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## surfaceone (Nov 16, 2012)

> Butterscotch Krimpets


 


 
 Hey Jim,

 I have missed these entirely, right up to just now. But they are from the Non Hostess World. Are they endangered, as well?

 There's gonna be a run on Twinkies. Fleabay profiteers will be rife. I predict counterfeiting.


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## epackage (Nov 16, 2012)

Krimpets aren't in danger as far as I know, and the hoarding and profiteering has begun as can be seen here...

 http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=twinkies&_sop=3


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## surfaceone (Nov 16, 2012)

No cheer in Twinkie Town...


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## surfaceone (Nov 16, 2012)

Thanks for that link, Jim,

 I really liked this shirt:




"Super Rare Worker Shirt $3K.​ 
 And, it's starting at only $3000. Another reasonably priced ensemble was the Truck Not Included, truckload o'Twinkies. I've never understood the school of thought that produces these ludicrously priced electronic offerings of common stuff.


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## epackage (Nov 16, 2012)

I guess people are hoping to get on the local news for their 'cleverness', lord knows there's been a fair share of potato chip Gerald Fords and Elvis toast that has made the local news and sold in the past....


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## cyberdigger (Nov 16, 2012)

Hostess was being eaten at both ends, as far as I can decipher the news reports, which we are not suffering a shortage of, even here. Bad management + inflated union entitlement = bankruptcy in the real world. I'd like to see a Hostess delivery truck on ebay, I could use one of those..!


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 16, 2012)

I sure will miss those artery clogging fired Twinkies []


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## epackage (Nov 16, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> Hostess was being eaten at both ends, as far as I can decipher the news reports, which we are not suffering a shortage of, even here. Bad management + inflated union entitlement = bankruptcy in the real world. I'd like to see a Hostess delivery truck on ebay, I could use one of those..!


 They came out of bankruptcy in 2009 and now they asked the Bakers Union to make even greater concessions to those they agreed to before the first bankruptcy in 2008. The union had already agreed to a *27% pay cut * over 5 years in 2008, the company wnated them to raise it to *32%*. They also wanted *cuts to the Health & Welfare Fund * and they *stopped making payments to the Pension Fund * in 2011. Yet the people running the company *gave themselves raises of up to 300%* since coming out of bankruptcy.... I will say no more regarding the financials...[]


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## epackage (Nov 16, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> I sure will miss those artery clogging fired Twinkies []


 Never had one, maybe someday...


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## cyberdigger (Nov 16, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Well I'm glad they put an end to the madness.. another victory for labor! []


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## epackage (Nov 16, 2012)

So you work for $11/hr and can't pay your bills and lose your home while the people at the top increase their pay 300% after you already committed to giving back 27% of your take home pay, health benefits & your pension that you bargained for in good faith, or you collect unemployment and hope to pick up some side work until you go back to work again and hopefully make ends meet. I'll take option #2 because sometimes you have to stand up for what's right against the shareholders and the people making more money in ayear than you make in twenty...

 We could all go back to 16 hour days, 6 days a week, child labor, no benefits and the horsedrawn carraige though[8|]


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## cyberdigger (Nov 16, 2012)

Or we could start baking our own twinkies.. [8|]


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## epackage (Nov 16, 2012)

I like that idea...


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## BillinMo (Nov 16, 2012)

This has been big news around here, since they're headquartered in Kansas City. 

 I think you're right, Jim -- they have so many strong brands (Twinkies, Suzy-Qs, Wonder Bread, HoHos, Ding Dongs, etc.) that I'm sure someone will buy them out.


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## Penn Digger (Nov 16, 2012)

I think I am going to start a snack cake company called "Dinkies."

 PD


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## coldwater diver (Nov 16, 2012)

In response to the new company idea could I please be your first union employee. I will require an immediate pay raise and job security even if I suck. What do you say.  [sm=thumbup.gif] 

 18,500 people just lost their jobs to a union that makes up 30% of that workforce. Another win for Labor indeed. Who are the losers, people who are(were thankful) to have had a job.


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## epackage (Nov 17, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  coldwater diver
> 
> In response to the new company idea could I please be your first union employee. I will require an immediate pay raise and job security even if I suck. What do you say.  [sm=thumbup.gif]
> 
> 18,500 people just lost their jobs to a union that makes up 30% of that workforce. Another win for Labor indeed. Who are the losers, people who are(were thankful) to have had a job.


 Your boss called, he wants you to give up 32% of your pay, your health care and he's no longer funding the pension.....Oh yeah, he gave himself a 300% raise after restructing from bankruptcy just three years ago, see you at the job in the morning...[]


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## epackage (Nov 17, 2012)

Not trying to start an argument Kevin, or anyone else for that matter, just pointing out that you need to take a stand at some point in your life against the people lining their pockets and walking all over you while you do all the lifting. If the bosses there had it there way the people would pay them for the right to work there. That's the last point I'll make so there's no fighting about labor unions and those people who hate them....Have a great weekend!![8D]


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## coldwater diver (Nov 17, 2012)

I respectfully disagree with you epackage. I am kind of getting the feeling you work(ed) for a union.I started my business of 23 years now from nothing. I have my life experience to draw from as do you. I can tell you I would sooner sell my company than  deal with a union. I understand the sentiment of the person who said screw it, this is just not worth it anymore. Now 70% of these employees to no falt of there own are unemployed. From what I have read The Teamsters union actually backed the company and helped do deliveries in an effort to avoid the closure of the company while they negociated with the Bakers union. Love the unions or hate them what is done is done. I hope the union guys can get together with all their knowledge and expertise and restart a company of their own and hire some of those who are now unemployed. 

            On alighter note I never could eat to many Twinkies I was more the Ring Ding type of guy.


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## epackage (Nov 17, 2012)

I can understand your side, but there has to be accountability for the management giving themselves 300% raises after coming out of bankruptcy after asking for the employees to give back 27% over 5 years, which they agreed to do. It takes a BIG SET to ask them to up it to 32% after you give yourselves such huge raises. I'm not saying it's a good thing by the union, just that there comes a point where a stand needs to be taken, or the people at the top are just gonna keep asking for more cuts like they did here. That's all I have to say about it...[]


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## surfaceone (Nov 17, 2012)

> The union had already agreed to a 27% pay cut over 5 years in 2008, the company wnated them to raise it to 32%. They also wanted cuts to the Health & Welfare Fund and they stopped making payments to the Pension Fund in 2011. Yet the people running the company gave themselves raises of up to 300% since coming out of bankruptcy.... I will say no more regarding the financials... []


 
 Hey Jim,

 Are you sure about those figures? I'm seeing different figures & factors:

"The Twinkie, a Suicide
 Unions kill an American classic, and 18,500 of their own jobs.

 ...The snack giant endured $52 million in workers' comp claims in 2011, according to its bankruptcy filing this January. Hostess's 372 collective-bargaining agreements required the company to maintain 80 different health and benefit plans, 40 pension plans and mandated a $31 million increase in wages and health care and other benefits for 2012.

 Union work rules usually required cake and bread products to be delivered to a single retail location using two separate trucks. Drivers weren't allowed to load their own vehicles, and the workers who loaded bread weren't allowed to load cake. On most delivery routes, another "pull up" employee moved products from back rooms to shelves.

 This year management negotiated concessions from some of the unions, including the Teamsters, but the bakers rejected a last and best offer in September. Then the courts gave Hostess unilateral authority to modify collective-bargaining contracts, prompting the strike. So now it will liquidate, instead of attempting to emerge from Chapter 11 intact.

 The 18,500 layoffs are equal to about 11% of the net new jobs the entire U.S. economy created in October..." Wall Street Journal.





​ "...In the end, a bankruptcy judge gave Hostess permission to force the bakers union to accept a new five-year labor contract that featured an 8% wage cut in the first year, new pension plan restrictions and a 17% increase in health care costs for employees.

 The bakers' union went on strike. "Our members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company they have given so much to for so many years," said Frank Hurt, the bakers' union president, in a statement Friday evening.

 However, the Teamsters on Friday stood by its decision to accept the proposed cuts. As the bakers' union went on strike, the Teamsters largely didn't cross picket lines, said Ken Hall, the Teamsters' treasurer and general secretary. They picked up Hostess products for delivery when there weren't picket lines present, he said..." From.



 
 "Hostess said Friday that much of Hostess Brands is unprofitable under its current cost structure much of which is determined by union wages and pension costs. It said its offer included wage, benefit and work rule concessions, but also gave Hostess Brandsâ€™ unions a 25 percent ownership stake in the company, representation on its board of directors and $100 million in reorganized Hostess Brandsâ€™ debt...

 Waheed, whose shipping union members werenâ€™t on strike, said he has mixed feelings about punching in for the last time.

 â€œAt one time, this was a very good place to work -- it was still a very good place to work,â€ Waheed said. â€œIncome-wise, you could bring $700-800 home a week.â€

 Waheed said he rarely ate the cakes he stacked. â€œBecause I know whatâ€™s in them,â€ he said.

 Hostess had already reached a contract agreement with its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. The Teamsters had urged the smaller union to hold a secret ballot on whether to continue striking. Citing its financial experts who had access to the companyâ€™s books, the Teamsters had said that Hostessâ€™ warning of liquidation was â€œnot an empty threat or a negotiating tacticâ€ but a certain outcome if workers continue striking." From.




​ "Hostess is saddled with 372 collective bargaining agreements, 80 different health and pension benefit plans and workersâ€™ compensation costs that last year hit $52 millionâ€“which works out to over $2700 for each of its 19,000 employees.

 Union agreements mandate pay raises and other compensation costs that will total $31 million this year. Ridiculous union work rules that are consciously engineered to increase inefficiency and create superfluous jobs are making Hostess uncompetitive with other industry players. If cakes and bread arrive together and are headed to the same place, they must nevertheless be split onto separate trucks; drivers are forbidden to load products onto their trucks.

 When the Hostess man delivers product to the store, he isnâ€™t allowed to move items from storage to the shelves; instead, a different employee, called a â€œpull-upâ€ worker, has to do that job. Oh, and if both cakes and bread are involved? You guessed it: thereâ€™s a cake pull-up and a bread pull-up. One guy couldnâ€™t possibly do the same task. If Hostess wants to enter a new market, work rules still apply." Forbes.




​


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 17, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 You better hurry []


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 17, 2012)

OMG! the poor twinkie can't even die in peace! Next thing you know politics will flow in,oh wait it already has.


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## surfaceone (Nov 17, 2012)

​ Moist golden sponge cake.
 Creamy white filling of joy.
 Boy, I love Twinkies! 

 Enriched flour and
 water, sugar, corn syrup
 oils - many kinds 

 eggs, dextrose, food starch
 whey, leavenings, salt, starch, and
 yellow corn flour 

 corn syrup solids
 mono and diglycerides
 dextrin, calcium 

 caseinate and
 sodium stearoyl and
 lactylate also 

 cellulose gum and
 polysorbate 60 and
 wheat gluten also 

 lecithin, flavors
 artificial colors - lots!
 and sorbic acid From.​


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## DIGS CHESCO (Nov 17, 2012)

It's been decades since I last ate a Twinky, but I have to say all the fine research by surf made me reminiscent for the ultra sweet confection.  Unfortunately at the time of this writing I can't find a single daddgumm snack cake in these parts (of PA)... oh well I'm better off If I'm to maintain weight for my next privy dig.

 Tom


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## epackage (Nov 17, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> Hey Jim,
> 
> Are you sure about those figures? I'm seeing different figures & factors:


 I am Surf, there's a hostess plant in the next town over from me where at least a dozen people I know have worked, most for over 20 years...

 The new 8% pay cut that they wanted to have take effect immediately was part of the 32% cut over 5 years like I said, they also wanted cuts in the H & W and they hadn't funded the pension since 2011. So my numbers were right.


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## epackage (Nov 17, 2012)

So if they agreed to the even deeper pay cuts, in 5 years their take home pay would have gone from $700-800 to $476-542, that's a very tough call when it comes to making a "living wage" in this area of the country. When you have a home and taxes that you're paying based on your take home pay, as is the case with many people, and you have to give back 32% of that contracted & bargained for pay it's really not much different than losing the job all together...

 Tough call across the board really, the *unions* bargained for these contracts but *needed to be more flexible* in a terrible economic time, but the *management* also needed to *stop taking huge pay raises* of up to 300% within a year of coming out of a previous bankruptcy. I'm not laying all the fault at the feet of one side here, I'm just trying to point out that a 32% pay cut isn't acceptible and I wonder how many of you would be willing to do the same all while having your health care costs rise while losing the funding for your pension, I don't think any of you would...


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## epackage (Nov 17, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> OMG! the poor twinkie can't even die in peace! Next thing you know politics will flow in,oh wait it already has.


 No politics mentioned that I saw Rick... A very nice, calm and evenly discussed topic without vitriol...[]


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 17, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 When you are in a union as I am,the "politics" of in house government effect you one in way or another. So yeah its politics.[]


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## epackage (Nov 17, 2012)

Well if that's the criteria then I guess deciding which movie to see, where to eat dinner or what chore you plan on tackling at home this weekend is a 'political discussion' that you'll have with your wife and family. Since there weren't any politicians or party affiliations mentioned I can't consider it a politcal discussion personally.

 At least we weren't discussing THIS kind of Twinkie....[8D]


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## RCO (Nov 17, 2012)

i noticed on ebay people are trying to sell new boxes of twinkies . who would be that crazy to bid and pay to have them shipped when they can still buy them at the store ? 

 up in canada i don't believe any of our bakeries are affected by this as there run by seperate companies so no shortage of boxed baked goods here and not even sure if the twinkie is available for sale to begin with . i've had them before but can't picture a box of them for sale in the grocery store


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## cyberdigger (Nov 17, 2012)

I don't classify this thread as political, but it could go that way if we're not careful.. the most important thing is we don't get ugly and focus on the topic at hand, those imperiled snack cakes..! []


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## JohnN (Nov 17, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RCO
> 
> i noticed on ebay people are trying to sell new boxes of twinkies . who would be that crazy to bid and pay to have them shipped when they can still buy them at the store ?
> 
> up in canada i don't believe any of our bakeries are affected by this as there run by seperate companies so no shortage of boxed baked goods here and not even sure if the twinkie is available for sale to begin with . i've had them before but can't picture a box of them for sale in the grocery store


 That's just it: you can't buy them in the store easily anymore. My mom was working in a grocery store today, and said there were no more Twinkies. Luckily they still had Drake's fruit pies. Now I am sure that some stores still have them, but by the time you get to a store that actually has them, you have probably paid the shipping costs in gas finding them.


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## surfaceone (Nov 17, 2012)

*Great Moments in Twinkie History*






 When Minneapolis City Council candidate George Belair served Twinkies and other refreshments to two senior citizens' groups in 1985, he was indicted for bribery in what the newspapers dubbed "Twinkiegate." (Source: The Washington Post)​ 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~​ 
In 1999, President Bill Clinton and the White House Millennium Council selected the Twinkie to be preserved in the nation's millennium time capsule, calling it an enduring American icon.​


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## surfaceone (Nov 18, 2012)

> ...just pointing out that you need to take a stand at some point in your life against the people lining their pockets and walking all over you while you do all the lifting. If the bosses there had it there way the people would pay them for the right to work there...


 


 
 Hey Jim,

 I'm pointing the finger of Twinkie death at Frank Hurt of the Bakers Union. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "Bakers Union President Frank Hurt released a statement yesterday after Hostess closed all of its American plants.
 Hurt said the union knew Hostess could die.

 They went on strike anyway and today 18,000 more Americans are out of work.


 â€œOur members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company 
 they have given so much to for so many years. They decided that they were not going 
 to agree to another round of outrageous wage and benefit cuts and give up their 
 pension only to see yet another management team fail and Wall Street vulture 
 capitalists and â€˜restructuring specialistsâ€™ walk away with untold millions of dollars.

 â€œThroughout this long and difficult process, BCTGM members showed tremendous 
 courage, solidarity and devotion to principle. They were well aware of the potential 
 consequences of their actions but stood strong for dignity, justice and respect.â€​ Oh well, at least Frank still has a job." From.

 His "Leadership" put his membership, and 13,000 some others Out of Work. The Teamsters tried to tell him and the BCTGM:

 "Hostess had already reached a contract agreement with its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. The Teamsters had urged the smaller union to hold a secret ballot on whether to continue striking. *Citing its financial experts who had access to the companyâ€™s books, the Teamsters had said that Hostessâ€™ warning of liquidation was â€œnot an empty threat or a negotiating tacticâ€ but a certain outcome if workers continue striking.*" From.

 I think Frank is going to have a special ring all to himself in the Annals of Labor History.


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

Maybe Surf, I'm not sure if the membership thought Hostess was bluffing or if they were serious, tough to tell without being in the room and hearing what they were told by their Business Manager. Either way giving up 32% of your pay, H&W benefits and your pension is a tough call, I fully expect Bimbo to buy the company, brands and many of the plants, so most of the people should be back to work before long. I have a bunch of friends that work for Thomas's English Muffins in Wayne, not far from Hostess, and they are very happy with the way Bimbo runs the company.

 I read where the cost of raw sugar was a big economic problem for Hostess here in the US, Bimbo being in Mexico is able to get sugar at a very reduced rate which helps them and all of their brands. Tough time of year to get laid off, but in the long run I hope it's for the good of the whole, I can't imagine losing 1/3 of my pay and bennies and being able to live where I do. I doubt anyone else would want that either...


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 18, 2012)

I'd love to work for a Union but they are as unstable as anywhere. The Union bosses aren't going to get hurt, just the workers. Look at PolaroidÂ® and others. Lost pensions will happen to any Union but the bosses won't care.
 Personally, I'd take a 30% cut over unemployment any day. If you think that Â½ your salary and definite loss of benis, pension etc. with unemployment is better than having a job, well, I don't know what to say.


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

Well if that's how you feel I guess you can say you would be willing to work for $1 an hour Eric because it's better than not having a job...


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

Since this post has started it has me curious, WHAT IS AN ACCEPTIBLE REDUCTION IN PAY that you guys/girls would be willing to accept, in the case of the bakers at Hostess it amounted to nearly 50% in total with the cuts to their hourly rate, loss of some H&W benefits and the unfunded pension. The bakers employed by all the other big bread and snack companies are making the same money and those companies are succesful, how are they doing it, is it possible that Hostess was just run badly...


 Are any of you willing to take such a cut, or is it even possible for you to make ends meet with such a severe reduction in what you make now?

 I couldn't take that cut and be able to live here, pay my taxes, utility and food bills


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 18, 2012)

If I move to China after the outsource and closure of the factories, yes, I guess so. 
 The Natick plant closing of Hostess was a big shame here. I loved the outlet store there and others in the area. There all gone now, I think it's a huge mall, Lowmans I think? I don't even go that way now. I'll bet none of it is Union though and mostly minimum wage. Granted, minimum is $8 here but Mass is really expensive and none of those entry level retail jobs have any benefits, not to the workers anyways.
 So yes, if I could work for a reduction to $9 (or whatever) and hope things pick up, I'd say yes. 
 Then again, I don't spend beyond my means, I just make ends meet (most of the time). If a person banked on a higher wage forever and bought a house they may shouldn't ought have or something, that's not my fault.
 My 20 YO TV is about to crap out and that will suck but I can get one off the side of the road no problem. I didn't go and buy a 70" wide screen though so it's no big loss.
 Win me the lottery for $50,000,000 and I'll get a little ranch and donate the rest to charity. Kinda in the Carnegie/ Rockefeller way but I won't wait until I think I'm about on my death bed.


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

It's good if you can, I still have enough years on my mortgage that a pay cut like that wouldn't be doable at all... Not to mention I'd have to work until i died without a pension...


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

Hey Jim, I have to make that choice almost every time I negotiate a job with a customer, being self employed. Since the recession hit, my income is down by 40%, cause most of my customers' budgets are tighter now. I'm doing more work than before and accepting deals I would have laughed at 4 years ago, you gotta do what you gotta do. I feel sorry for people who were counting on careers and pensions and stuff from companies that go under, but that's capitalism. I may not have any health insurance or pension plan but at least I'm always gonna have a job.. and yes, I plan to keep working until I drop dead. I never cared much for golf anyway.. []


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 18, 2012)

You must be if a real tough spot now Charlie. I imagine a lot of your upcoming work is from what you can repair from Sandy. I'll bet you wish you could could give the labor out but hey, if the insurance is going to cover it, make it! Good luck this year.


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## surfaceone (Nov 18, 2012)

> I never cared much for golf anyway.. []


 
 I know!

 I always hated those windmill ones..


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

I understand that Charlie, when one goes into business for themseleves they know that the tide is everchanging, but when you work under a negotiated contract you don't expect to have to give back 50% of that contract because the company can't compete in the market place. The perks of being the owner of a small operation has it's good points and bad points, but you wouldn't be too happy if you contracted to paint a large apartment complex for $100,000 and then when you completed it they told you you were only getting $50,000, while the owner pocketed a huge profit because he raised the rent on the newly painted apartments.


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

Honestly Cows, the fact that my wife is working now kind of makes up the difference.. [] I'm waiting to see if any Sandy jobs come along, that's gonna be weird.. I'm still in shock over what happened to my stomping ground..


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

Jim, that's not the kind of work I do, I'm a solo operation and my work is 100% referral & repeat customers. I've never been jerked around by anyone, and never jerked anyone around.


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm not saying you are or have, I'm saying you wouldn't like it if the guy you just worked for decided he could only pay you half what was agreed upon because he did a bad job managing his money, and then got into his brand new BMW and drove off...[]

 I do alot of work on the side so I know where you're coming from, one time a guy tried to screw me as the GC after a job was done, he said the homeowner wasn't happy with some of the work so we all had to take a little less. I stopped by and aksed the homeowner what the problem was and he told me the spackling job was horrible and need to be redone therefore the painting needed to be done again also, it had nothing to do with the plumbing. The GC paid me in full after I explained to him that I knew what was wrong with the job and what would end up being wrong with him if he held back my money for someone elses mistake...


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

That's why I work by myself, Jim..!


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

[]


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 18, 2012)

I don't see a difference unless you end up buried under some stadium somewhere. Even then the family tends to be well enough off.
 The CEO's and uppers tend to make out OK also.
 Unions were an absolute necessity about 100 years ago to keep workers safe and paid well enough to not be what we call sweat shops now. 
 Personally, I think they just drive the price of goods out of reach of what can be afforded now by the masses  and that's why everything gets outsourced to China, Mexico ect.. 
 Sure, the CEO's should take a big brunt or at least equal of the hit but so should the Union heads. The only ever losers are the workers.
 What are Union dues nowadays? 10%... 20%?
 Just curious.


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## surfaceone (Nov 18, 2012)

> The GC paid me in full after I explained to him that I knew what was wrong with the job and what would end up being wrong with him if he held back my money for someone elses mistake...


 
 Hey Jim,

 Then you can see the position of the Teamsters and others, here in Twinkiedom, with particular clarity. I'm not saying the "management" of the company was good, it sounds like it was a committee of hedge funds here at the end. They clearly were not doing well. 

 They were in Bankruptcy, for God's sake! Who strikes a company in Bankruptcy. You gotta credit the BCTGM and their antique leadership for the death of Twinkie and the loss of 18,000 jobs.




 
 A long way from the banana flavored Twinkieness of Continental Baking Co. so long ago.




From.​


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

Taking cuts like this will lead us all back into sweatshops with wages below a living wage, as long as the workers keep making concessions management will keep tightening the noose. They were supposed to use the money from the first round of givebacks to update the facilities and the product line, it would make me wonder where all that money went if I didn't already know it went to perks and raises for the people in charge. If you're happy with constantly giving back without drawing a line in the sand be my guest, pretty soon that sand will bury you...


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> They were in Bankruptcy, for God's sake! Who strikes a company in Bankruptcy. You gotta credit the BCTGM and their antique leadership for the death of Twinkie and the loss of 18,000 jobs.


 I guess the Baker's decided they had given back enough, I don't know what the vote was for a strike as opposed to accepting further paycuts and loss of benefits Surf. Where is the line when it comes to give backs, what percentage do you say enough is enough, 60%, 70%????


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

They are not 'give backs' Jim, they are conditions for staying with the company which can be accepted or not, and those who don't accept should look elsewhere for work, or start their own gig. Nobody, union or not, should ever expect a lifetime guarantee from a company. Things change too quickly. People..all of them.. need to be responsible for themselves and their families' well being, not depend on a union, or a corporate entity, or the gubmint to take care of them. If we all did that we'd all be better off, and we could afford to help those we know and love in times of need, rather than rely on a failing entitlement lifestyle. That's what I believe, anyway.. makes me wish I was born 200 years earlier..


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

You're 100% wrong, they are givebacks from a negotiated contract. The job with Hostess isn't a lifetime job by any means, I agree, but the owners and management sat down and agreed to these contracts, their inability to run the company at a profit after that is partially their fault. You sound like you would be happy being a slave, and that others should feel that way too, good luck with that.

 So now can you please tell what is the acceptible amount you'll agree is fair that their pay should have been cut before they should have said enough is enough? Is it 50, 60, 75%??? How come nobody has the answer??? I don't see your point at all here, it's not clear to me except for a hatred of unions, nothing else...


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

It's a hatred of dependency you see in my post, Jim. It's a generalized feeling that comes from deep inside me.


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

As for the slave remark, I think most of the population are slaves and should seek a little freedom maybe..


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

All I can end with is this, the men and women of that union decided they had had enough of the company and it's mismanagement, they *agreed to* a 27% pay cut and other concessions already during the 2008 bankruptcy, so they voted as a group to strike for what they believed in. They stuck to their guns and the Hostess decided to liquidate, that's the American way right, a Free Market where the strong survive and the weak go by the wayside. The company and it's assets will be bought up by a company like Bimbo, many if not all of these people will go back to work, and Twinkies will once again roll off the conveyor belts. God bless the Twinkie!


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> It's a hatred of dependency you see in my post, Jim. It's a generalized feeling that comes from deep inside me.


 At no point do you address the roll the company has in this, they negotiated these contracts, this isn't some politicain giving unions contracts for votes. It's a company agreeing to the wage and benefit packages in good faith, or what was supposed to be in good faith. They knew the costs for the company to operate and should have had a financial plan that would work, how does Bimbo, Flowers Foods, Inc., McKee Foods Corporation or George Weston Limited(The Competition) continue to operate and make money all while using the same union labor? They run the company well, they don't come out of a bankruptcy and have the bosses taking 300% raises, because Hostess wasn't able to do that you seem to want to blame it on the little guy. Well the little guy took the hit here because sometimes being right means more in the long run than bending over and taking it from behind...AGAIN


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> As for the slave remark, I think most of the population are slaves and should seek a little freedom maybe..


 These people did exercise their freedoms, in a tough economic climate, I just hope they all knew the facts before they voted whether or not to strike, I for one am proud of them taking a stand against what I see as rediculous demands. I think the bigshots figured they would fold because of the tough economy, they were wrong.


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm just saying don't be a victim.. everyone knows rich and powerful poeple are that way because of complete and total greed.. I hope you don't think I am defending them, or even admiring them, I'm just saying people should choose wisely in life and not count on organizations to pull their chariots.


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

I agree, nobody should be a victim, and I'm not against you voicing your opinion as long as I get to voice mine. I hope Bimbo buys the operation before years end and they get back to work making America fat and unhealthy again...[]


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

*The Union's side...*




â€œHostessâ€™s announcement that it is liquidating the company is a deep disappointment for all of
 our Hostess members. While Hostess management wants to blame our members for the demise
 of the company, the truth is that had it not been for the valiant efforts of our members over the
 last eight years, *including accepting significant wage and benefit concessions after the first
 bankruptcy*, this company would have gone out of business long ago."

 â€œHostess failed because its *six management teams over the last eight years were unable to make
 it a profitable*, successful business enterprise. Despite a *commitment from the company* after the
 first bankruptcy that *the resources derived from the workersâ€™ concessions would be plowed back
 into the company, this never materialized*. Management refused to invest in modernizing its
 bakeries or devote necessary resources to advertising and marketing, product development and
 new technology. Business plan after business plan failed, leaving the company ever deeper in
 debt."

 â€œWhen a highly-respected financial consultant, hired by Hostess, determined earlier this year that
 the companyâ€™s business plan to exit bankruptcy was guaranteed to fail because it left the
 company with unsustainable debt levels, our members knew that the massive wage and benefit
 concessions the company was demanding would go straight to Wall Street investors and not back
 into the company."

 â€œOur members were aware that while the company was descending into bankruptcy and
 demanding deep concessions, the top ten executives of the company were rewarding themselves
 with lavish compensation increases, with the then CEO receiving a 300 percent increase."

 â€œOur members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company they have
 given so much to for so many years. They decided that they were not going to agree to another
 round of outrageous wage and benefit cuts and give up their pension only to see yet another
 management team fail and Wall Street vulture capitalists and â€œrestructuring specialistsâ€ walk
 away with untold millions of dollars."

 â€œThroughout this long and difficult process, BCTGM members showed tremendous courage,
 solidarity and devotion to principle. They were well aware of the potential consequences of their
 actions but stood strong for dignity, justice and respectâ€​


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

> â€œOur members decided they were not going to take any more abuse from a company they have
> given so much to for so many years.


 
 This is the very core of the attitude which has caused the entitlement problem. They had a job and got paid to do it. They did not get picked out of a cosmic hat by destiny to have their futures secured for them.


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## coreya (Nov 18, 2012)

Just a footnote in reguards to Bimbo buying the company and keeping the jobs here, wont happen as Bimbo is a mexican company owned by an evil ([]) mexican billionaire who will promptly take it south as the sugar cost and labour costs will make it viable to produce. Well done with another bunch on unemployment!


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  coreya
> 
> Just a footnote in reguards to Bimbo buying the company and keeping the jobs here, wont happen as Bimbo is a mexican company owned by an evil ([]) mexican billionaire who will promptly take it south as the sugar cost and labour costs will make it viable to produce. Well done with another bunch on unemployment!


 They took over Thomas English Muffins, along with a host of other companies here in the US, they are all doing well and have kept the same basic employee structure. I have many friends who work for them right up the street...[]

 It is true they have access to cheaper Raw Sugar, which helps make them more profitable, but they do it in the same factories that have been churning out these products for decades.

 Don't let the facts get in the way of your argument though...[8D]

 http://www.bimbobakeriesusa.com/


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## epackage (Nov 18, 2012)

I'm just gonna say it sucks if the membership didn't get told the chance Hostess would close was real, there seems to be nothing to support that argument however, so they had to decide amongst themselves whether to vote to strike or not. They did and the majority felt it was the right thing to do, sucks to be out of work at anytime, but especially these days, but that's the choice they ended up making. I hope they all get back to work in the near future and I'm proud of them for sticking to their convictions, it couldn't have been an easy thing to do. I feel any further discussion on the matter by me will be unproductive, union haters are gonna hate, union supporters are gonna stand by their fellow working men and women. I doubt anymore support by me would add to the post, so enjoy it... I look forward to the next discussion[]


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## cyberdigger (Nov 18, 2012)

Well then... if you're not gonna post on this thread anymore, neither will I .. []


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## andy volkerts (Nov 19, 2012)

[][] AWWWW Gee everybody took there balls and went home!!!


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## LC (Nov 19, 2012)

I think it is time to take a step back and have a Twinkie . I found this link on Craigslist to take one to the auction .

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271106377638?ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1558.l2649


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 19, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkerts
> 
> [][] AWWWW Gee everybody took there balls and went home!!!


 
 No they tucked in their Twinkies and went home [8D]


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 19, 2012)

I just heard they are going to bankruptcy court so the Twinkie may LIVE ON![]


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 19, 2012)

*Chris Knight*: OK, if you think that by threatening me, you can  get me to be your slave, well... that's where you're right, but - and  I'm only saying this because I care - there are a lot of decaffeinated  brands on the market today that are just as tasty as the real thing. _Real Genius_.

 Look for, I don't know, maybe Twinkles in a market near you soon.


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## AlexD (Nov 19, 2012)

Yaa! Still to be safe, I'll buy a few boxes and sell them on eBay [] Some people are paying $30 for 5 boxes[8D]


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 20, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AlexD
> 
> Yaa! Still to be safe, I'll buy a few boxes and sell them on eBay [] Some people are paying $30 for 5 boxes[8D]


 
 People are out of their Freakin minds. Stupid minds! Dumb! Idiots !

 Plus they never watch the news,they are to busy glued to that Ebay screen. "GOTTA BUY!!! GOTTA BUY!!!!!


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 20, 2012)

Not being much of a sugar junkie, I'll have to say Snowballs were my favorite.
 I may have created the Bankruptcy do to low consumption. One Snowball every 3-4 years probably broke them. [8|]


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## ktbi (Nov 20, 2012)

I've been watching this Twinkie Outage crisis in the news, have seen the store shelves emptied in a buying frenzy, and witnessed the immediate buying and selling on eBay. It's really sad to be that connected to a twinkie. Really sad...Ron


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## JohnN (Nov 20, 2012)

I don't care about Twinkies. Give me the coffee cakes.Thankfully I got a box of Drake's coffee cakes the other day. Now I am set.


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## surfaceone (Nov 20, 2012)

"The company's founder, Newman E. Drake, baked his first pound cake in Brooklyn, New York, in 1888. He sold it by the slice.[2] Popularity increased, and soon a whole line of cakes was produced.

 By the late 1960s, the resulting Drake Bakeries was owned by the huge Borden food company, along with Cracker Jack and Wise Potato Chips. In 1987, Borden sold the company to Ralston Purina, which owned ITT Continental Baking Company, makers of rival Hostess Cakes and Wonder Bread. This created a virtual monopoly in some areas, soon overturned. While the union lasted, Hostess was able to use the name Ding Dong for its Ring Ding clone in formerly restricted areas; when dissolved, instead of restoring the product's original Big Wheels moniker, Hostess compromised with a new "King Dons" trademark for the affected areas. During this period, Drake's celebrated its 100th anniversary in 1988, and Steve Gratzel, head of Drake's research and development department, produced the world's largest Ring Ding cake..." wiki-Drake's.

 I've never had a Drake's Cake. Guess it's a Wayne thing. How many in a box?

 I got the last Strawberry "Snack Classic" Strawberry Pie at the gas station the other day. I left the box of chocolate "Donettes" right where they sat. Too plasticky, waxy for me. As a test of the old "Best by..." marking, I waited until one day after. Not a gustatory delight, by any stretch.

 Those Drake's cakes look like they'd still be good, if semi-petrified. [8D]


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 20, 2012)

The story of Ho Ho's

 See I do my research Surf[:-]



 It's a Family Affair
 The Ho Brothers were born in Hong Kong and came to San Francisco in 1970. Ten years later, after training with several Ho Ho Chefs, Brandy decided to open his own restaurant, partnering with his brothers Jack and Sedgwick.

 When Brandy Ho's opened, over 26 years ago, it was one of the first restaurants to introduce authentic Ho ho cooking to San Francisco.

 Together, the Ho Brothers have created an award-winning and internationally acclaimed restaurant, known for its authentic hot and spicy Ho ho's, and its comfortable, down-to-earth setting.

 Great tasting food cooked in authentic Ho style, generous portions, a comfortable atmosphere, and the attentive staff are some of the many reasons why both locals and visitors from around the world return to Brandy Ho's again and again.

 According to Jack Ho, Brandy's brother and manager of Brandy Ho's, "our main goal is to be the best that we can be. When people eat at our restaurants, we want them to say we are the best Ho ho restaurant in the city. HO HO'S are  simple, creamy, down-home cuisine that uses the most natural flavors and whipped cream in all of Chinese cooking. We chose Ho ho's because we love it - and people do best the things they love best."


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 20, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> The story of Ho Ho's
> 
> ...


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## Penn Digger (Nov 20, 2012)

Leave it to you Rick! []


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## OsiaBoyce (Nov 21, 2012)

Twinkie? Never had one..................nope not in 53 years. Ya know why? 

 ..................and there from the South. Not south of the border.

 Unions? Hell yea, UBC 283, 28 years.

 Live better, work better, work union.


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## epackage (Nov 21, 2012)

Tough to find Little Debbie up here in Jersey Pat, better chance of finding them in supermarkets but very tough in smaller stores.


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## surfaceone (Nov 21, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> The story of Ho Ho's
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Rick,

 I completely missed that. Good find, and just in time for the Holidays; Ho-Ho-Ho's.

 Who's gonna play Mr. French?






******** Homemade Twinkie Recipe *********


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## surfaceone (Nov 21, 2012)

> These people did exercise their freedoms, in a tough economic climate, I just hope they all knew the facts before they voted whether or not to strike, I for one am proud of them taking a stand against what I see as rediculous demands. I think the bigshots figured they would fold because of the tough economy, they were wrong.


 
 Hey Jim,

 It was my understanding that Hostess used a possible shutdown / liquidation as part of their bargaining strategy. I think they were pretty upfront about that.

 Whether Mr. Hunt effectively communicated that to the membership is a good question.

 There's a pretty interesting article here, that says Bimbo is not going after Hostess parts.

"Hostess warns striking workers of liquidation
  November 21,2012

 NEW YORK Hostess Brands Inc. said it could announce Friday morning whether it will move to liquidate its business, after the company had set a Thursday deadline for striking employees to return to work.

 The maker of Twinkies, Ding Dongs and Wonder Bread had warned employees that it would file a motion in U.S. Bankruptcy Court to unwind its business and sell off assets if plant operations didnâ€™t return to normal levels by 5 p.m. Thursday. That would result in the loss of about 18,000 jobs.

 Spokesman Lance Ignon said the company likely would make an announcement Friday after assessing plant operations Thursday evening.

 Hostess, based in Irving, Texas, has already reached a contract agreement with its largest union, the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. But thousands of members in its second-biggest union went on strike late last week after rejecting in September a contract offer that cut wages and benefits. Officials for the Bakery, Confectionery, Tobacco Workers and Grain Millers International Union say the company stopped contributing to pensions last year.

 In an interview with Fox Business, Hostess CEO Gregory Rayburn said many workers have already crossed picket lines this week to go back to work despite warnings by union leadership that theyâ€™d be fined.

 â€œThe problem is we donâ€™t have enough crossing those lines to maintain normal production,â€ Rayburn said.

 Hostess says that production at about a dozen of its 33 plants has been seriously affected by the strike. Three plants were closed earlier this week. A representative for the bakery-workers union did not respond to request for comment.

 The Teamsters, meanwhile, are urging the smaller union to hold a secret ballot on whether to continue striking. Citing its financial experts who had access to the companyâ€™s books, the Teamsters say Hostessâ€™ warning of liquidation is â€œnot an empty threat or a negotiating tacticâ€ but a certain outcome if workers continue striking. The Teamsters noted also that the strike had put its union members in the â€œhorrible positionâ€ of deciding whether to cross picket lines.

 Hostess, a privately held company, filed for Chapter 11 protection in January, its second trip through bankruptcy court in less than a decade. The company cited increasing pension and medical costs for employees as one of the drivers behind its latest filing. Hostess has argued that workers must make concessions for it to exit bankruptcy and improve its financial position.

 The company, founded in 1930, is fighting battles beyond labor costs, however. Competition is increasing in the snack space and Americans are increasingly conscious about healthy eating. Hostess also makes Dolly Madison, Drakeâ€™s and Natureâ€™s Pride snacks.

 Hostess said it would file the motion to liquidate Friday if needed, with a hearing scheduled for Monday. If the motion is granted, Hostess would begin closing operations as early as Tuesday." From.


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 21, 2012)

Damn the Twinkies, full speed ahead!
 Sure, in the post millennium apocalyptic world of the Griffin family they were a concern but the loss of the Twinkie now is, well..., who gives a crap.
 Of coarse that's just me and I haven't bought a HostessÂ® product in the last 5 years. Unless they also make the generic or store brands I do buy also.


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## cyberdigger (Nov 21, 2012)

I thought about this thread while buying some tiramisu and cheesecake slices from a local bakery today.. I'll take the real stuff, thank you.. junk like what Hostess made is ..junk.. !


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## epackage (Nov 21, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> Hey Jim,
> 
> There's a pretty interesting article here, that says Bimbo is not going after Hostess parts.


 Bimbo reps were in Wayne today along with reps from another company that may be interested in some of the facilities and their workers. A friend of mine is still there and they are getting ready to make sure everything is taken care of properly and stored so that they can be liquidated if and when a buyer for the company or equipment is found. He knows the Bimbo rep because he used to work at Thomas's when they were bought out, it may or may not happen but the interest is real.

 I figure some company will take the time to buy the rights to the iconic snacks either way...


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## andy volkerts (Nov 22, 2012)

[] Yeah!!  Little Debbie, you can get em here in California! they are pretty good, better than any twinkie, those will kill ya.........Operating Eng Union local #3   Union forevermore yeah!!


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 22, 2012)

Did someone say Little Debbie? She has a brother you know,his name is "Little Mark-E"


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## epackage (Nov 24, 2012)

Hey Surf, here is why I believe this company ultimately bit the dust, they are still throwing the money around right up until the end...

Hostess is unfairly pushing all the blame for its troubles on the unions. Still, the unions do bear some responsibility here. High labor costs doomed the company; employees had formed into 12 different unions by the time the end came.

 At any rate, Hostess is keeping a "skeleton staff" of 3,200 people, The Journal reports. It's trying to find buyers for 30 brands and 36 factories, and from the way the suitors are lining up, it sounds like Hostess won't have a problem with some of those brands.

 "We therefore think there could be very healthy competition," Lennox told the court. Hostess may start auctioning some of its assets soon.

*Hostess also plans to award bonuses to the officers and managers that helped run the company into the ground. The company is seeking $1.75 million to distribute to 19 executives for a job well done.*

 A JOB WELL DONE, the Free Market System at it's best...[]



 and as I stated before don't count Bimbo out just yet...[]

Some potential buyers include international companies eager for a piece of the U.S. bakery business as well as big pastry names already familiar to Americans. Flowers Foods (FLO -1.44%), which makes Nature's Own bread, has been mentioned as a buyer along with Groupo Bimbo, a Mexican company that also owns the Entenmann's pastry line.


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## coldwater diver (Jul 11, 2013)

http://t.money.msn.com/now/hostess-employees-unhappy-with-wage-cuts
 The victory for labor is complete? Eat a twinkie! Job well done?


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