# stretched or not..7up



## iggyworf (Dec 3, 2015)

What do any of you think about this one. Looks to be 1946 on bottom. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-and-Unusual-Slim-7up-Bottle-Rare-/221956073696?hash=item33ad9ce8e0:g:LRgAAOSwf-VWXUGa


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 3, 2015)

iggy / Rich Those types of bottles were used to pre-measure syrup. I don't know the whole story as to how they were used, but I have seen them with other brand names on the base, including Coca Cola and others. It would be interesting to know more about them. [attachment=7up syrup Bottle.jpg] [attachment=7up syrup Bottle Base 1946.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 3, 2015)

*Coca Cola* http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/55409-coca-cola-test-bottle *?* *         [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Bo... wooden sleeve.jpg] * *         [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Bo...ve over bottle.jpg] *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 3, 2015)

The key words appear to be *"syrup test"* 
                                    COCA-COLA" SYRUP TEST BOTTLE 9-3/4 TALL

These bottles were used to test the amount of syrup going into the COKE bottles on the production line. These are all different sizes depending the amount of soda and high of bottles being tested. I believe that this size was used to test a 12 oz. bottle.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/COCA-COLA-SYRUP-TEST-BOTTLE-FOR-12-oz-BOTTLE-9-3-4-TALL-/371462885074?hash=item567ce9ced2%3Ag%3AW-MAAOSwMmBVxmTS&nma=true&si=j5Bp1Cms2McSnAk3iwqLniCBpf8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

                                            [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Test Bottle.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 3, 2015)

I like this explanation best ... They would send these syrup test bottles down the line at certain intervals to assure proper (within specs) filling of syrup for cost and quality control. The wooden sleeve served as a spacer so the syrup tester bottle would stand up properly with the bottles being filled for production.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 3, 2015)

By the way ... The eBay 7up syrup test bottle that iggy posted a link to is the only 7up version of these types of bottles I can find and suspect they are quite rare, especially with a date mark on them, with this being a 1946 Owens-Illinois. About 95% of these syrup bottles I've seen are Coca Cola related. So if you are a 7up collector, I'd try and nab this one, which closes in four days. The opening bid is $10.00 but with no bids yet.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 3, 2015)

This collector seems to know a thing or two about syrup test bottles. Here's his [edited for clarity] description about the Pepsi Cola example pictured ...                                                            ~ * ~                       Pepsi Cola Lab Premix Test Bottle with Rare Wooden Sleeve ... 
"During the early years of Pepsi Cola and Coca Cola it was critical to keep their formulas secret, but the technology was a little more primitive. The bottling companies needed to produce soda in sufficient quantities, which resulted in the bulk shipment of Pepsi Cola and Coca Cola as a syrup. This is why you see so many of the 5 gallon Pepsi Cola syrup cans for sale. It is also the reason you see so many of the 5 and 10 gallon Coca Cola kegs.

Once the syrup reached the bottling plant it was then mixed with proper proportions of carbonated water. Too little syrup and it would go flat and not taste right. Too much syrup and the bottles would foam over during production causing bottles to be 1/2 to 3/4th's full. In order to assure the mixture was correct, syrup sample bottles were run through the production line every half hour on the hour all day long during production.

Most everyone has seen their share of these tall skinny bottles for sale, but they seldom see the wood sleeve that went with them so they could be properly aligned and filled. This one is the wood collar used by Pepsi Cola. I have owned a couple of the test bottles with Pepsi Cola written as an ACL label. I have also owned a couple of the Coca Cola bottles with the ACL labels. But I have only seen two or three of these wood sleeves for Coca Cola. This is the only wooden sleeve for a Pepsi Cola syrup test bottle that I have ever come across."

[attachment=Pepsi Syrup Test B... wooden sleeve.jpg] 

[attachment=Pepsi Syrup Test B...en sleeve text.jpg]


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## goodman1966 (Dec 3, 2015)

Posted this one a while back. Thanks for the info Bob!????[attachment=image.jpg]


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## iggyworf (Dec 3, 2015)

Yeah! Thanx Bob for all that. Goodman, that's a cool Kist example.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

There might be more to those syrup test bottles than what some people claim. As the one collector stated, the test bottles were run through the filling process on a regular basis "every half-hour on the hour" to assure that the amount of syrup going into each bottle was accurate. But if that was the case, then how do we explain these patents for 'Syrup Measuring Devices' that were designed to function with the bottling process? The inventor's claims associated with these devices state they are accurate and reliable. So why run a sample bottle through the filling process if these measuring devices are accurate? Every one of those so called syrup test bottles I've seen are designed with a lip just like on a regular bottle which indicates they were able to be capped. Why cap them? Were these types of bottles also intended to test the capping machine? Or were they intended to be filled and capped in order to send them to a laboratory for some reason? Or possibly to send the test sample back to the parent company?  There might be more to the test bottles than previously thought - but at the moment I'm not sure what that reason might be.         Here is just a sampling of the numerous syrup measuring device patents I've seen ...  1.  19072.  1921 [attachment=Syrup Measuring De...(2) (698x1100).jpg] [attachment=Syrup Measuring De...(2) (728x1100).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

P.S. If I understand the soft drink bottle filling process accurately, the bottles are lined up on a conveyor and then syrup is added, followed by adding water and carbonation, and then capped. But because the syrup test bottles only hold a couple of ounces, then how did they prevent the water and carbonation from being added to a bottle designed to only hold a couple of ounces of syrup? Did someone remove the test bottle before it got to the water and carbonation stage?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

And what, if anything, does this tell us? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coca-Cola-Syrup-Test-Bottle-Coke-Premix-Clear-Single-White-Band-11-3-4-/251705793083?nma=true&si=WDxRGzHuMFguM6FyhPc1c46PhP8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...h Instructions.jpg] [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...structions (2).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

And what about these test kits? What, if anything, do they tell us? 
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-fountain-soda-pop-test-kit-443522784

                                                 (Sellers Description)

"This is a vintage test kit for beverage bottling. Called the perfect testing outfit put out by Liquid Carbonic Corporation Chicago Illinois. I'm assuming it is used for the testing of soda or beer. The level of carbonation and sugar and syrup levels too maybe. I couldn't find out much about this kit. According to the manual it appears to be complete with: gas volume tester, hydrometer jar, hydrometer, 4 ounce graduate, finished drink tester, thermometer with case, and gas volume tester scale and syrup and drink calculator. The hydrometer has been broke but could be glued back for display. Purchased in 1950 from the American Brewers Supply Co by Miller Bottling Co Marietta Ohio in the amount of $40. Comes in a case that has a hinge broke and some wear. The instructions and all the paperwork is here too. Again I don't know much about this so feel free to ask questions and I will answer best I can."

                         [attachment=Syrup Test Kit.jpg]


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## iggyworf (Dec 4, 2015)

Great work again Bob. The coke 'test' bottle you gave a link to, could it be for larger volume bottles?That test kit is very cool. But looks like it could have been used in the lab or away from the bottling facility. Or used in the facility as well I guess. But it seems like they would take samples and pour them into those vials for testing.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

iggy There is one thing I feel certain about the so called 'syrup test bottles' which is, there's no way they were intended to go through the entire bottle filling process. If that happened they would overflow with water and carbonation and make a huge mess within the filling machinery. Which in turn would not provide an accurate syrup sample if it also had water and/or carbonation added to it.  Of course, this doesn't explain the wood sleeves which appear to be designed to hold the bottle upright so as to properly allow it to go through the filling machine. Or were the wood sleeves intended to protect the bottle during shipping? But if that was the case, then why leave the neck and base exposed?


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## iggyworf (Dec 4, 2015)

I agree with; the test bottles did not go all the way thru the line. Someone or a mechanism took them out before the other ingredients. Also agree that the wooden sleeves helped them go smoothly thru the line. But this is the first time a seen one of those sleeves. I have seen these test bottles before. I hope to get that 7up one.


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## iggyworf (Dec 4, 2015)

Here is some interesting ones, found on flea bay. The first one is very interesting. Either coca cola or generic. most of them seem to come from Owens Illinois.After checking the sold listings. All seem to be coca cola's. found no other brands.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Leather-SOFT-DRINK-CARBONATION-Test-Sleeves-Used-in-the-1950s-1960s-/201478551012?hash=item2ee90eb5e4:g:Sh8AAOSwbqpT1VGc

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Set-of-3-Coca-Cola-Syrup-Testing-Bottles-Chattanooga-/131665777607?hash=item1ea7e453c7:g:k~0AAOSwTapV4wi3

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-antique-ORIGINAL-FACTORY-32-OZ-COCA-COLA-SYRUP-TEST-BOTTLE-ETCHED-QC-12-78-/131664043537?hash=item1ea7c9de11:g:q9oAAOSwAKxWW5Q~

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-COCA-COLA-SYRUP-TESTING-BOTTLE-/151902154086?hash=item235e12ed66:g:Y68AAOSw7FRWXiis


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

iggy I came across some of those links and on the second-to-last one the bottle is etched with QC, which I'm assuming is for Quality Control. But just what type of quality control its referring to I'm not sure. And even though it is tagged as having something to do with 32 ounces, its obviously not a 32 ounce bottle, which suggest it was probably intended to measure a sample for a regular 32 ounce bottle. But even with that said, why do the majority of the listings for these types of sample bottles refer to them as "Test" bottles and not "Measuring" bottles? Notice the bottle on this link is dated 1968. I find it hard to believe they still needed to "measure" the amount of syrup being put into each bottle as late as 1968, especially when you take into account the filling machinery at that time was surely advanced enough to put an accurate amount of syrup into each bottle. I'm strongly leaning toward the possibility that these so called "test" bottles were intended to be sent to a laboratory for analysis.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/COCA-COLA-SYRUP-TEST-BOTTLE-7-3-4-TALL-/371441190103?nma=true&si=WDxRGzHuMFguM6FyhPc1c46PhP8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

P.S. My "Laboratory Theory" doesn't mean the test bottles did not go through the filling machinery. I'm thinking they did go through the machinery first, but were not for measuring but were for later testing.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

In other words ... I'm thinking the test bottles were filled with a certain amount of syrup and then sent to a laboratory to determine the percentage of sugar vs. the percentage of flavoring vs. the percentage of water, etc. Thus maintaining the proper flavor for the regular bottles to be filled with.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

For future reference ... I'm seeing the word "Premix" used in connection with this discussion, and in many instances it suggest this premix test was done prior to the bottles actually being filled so as to make sure the syrup blend was accurate. After all, why run a test bottle down the conveyor with the bottles being filled for distribution if the syrup blend wasn't checked "first" and then corrected if necessary?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

This is by no means the final word on this topic - but merely an example of the direction I'm currently leaning. I have no idea if this guy knows what he's talking about or not - but his wording (which is a mouthful) exemplifies my current direction of research ... 
                      ANTIQUE COCA COLA LABORATORY SYRUP SAMPLING TEST TUBE BOTTLE

http://www.bonanza.com/listings/Antique-Coca-Cola-Laboratory-Syrup-Sampling-Test-Tube-Bottle-Lot-67/44473605

             [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Test Tube Bottle.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

This guy says ... 
       "Coca-Cola used these bottles in the QA lab to test syrup mixture and quality."


http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coca-cola-bottle-test-tube-vintage-74496384


                                 ( Note:  QA stands for Quality Assurance )


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## iggyworf (Dec 4, 2015)

Bob, I found this one. The person explains 'it was made to measure the syrup for people running soda fountains' http://www.fsplanet.com/store/-Rare-Owens-Illinois-Glass-Soda-Syrup-Measuring-Bottle-Streator-Il_161607661625.html


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

iggy Base on the research I have devoted to this topic today, and the varying findings from numerous sources, I am currently of the opinion that the type of bottles in question here are ... *                                Laboratory Test Bottles*        ... and were not intended for measuring the amount of syrup that went into each bottle.                                   (But still looking for unquestionable proof)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

P.S.                                                Laboratory Test Bottles ... *         ... for testing syrup concentrate for quality assurance. *


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## iggyworf (Dec 4, 2015)

Yes for measuring syrup. But they still were made for individual soda manufacturerers.  Coca Cola, 7up, and Goodman's Kist. And possibly Pepsi. So probably all soda bottlers used them? The 7up is embossed with '7up' logo on the bottom. No others we have found seem to have the Co. name embossed on them.  Others seem to think they were designed for the conveyer line for measuring. 

http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/55409-coca-cola-test-bottle


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

I just joined a Coca Cola site and asked the resident expert ...   Were those so called syrup "test tube" bottles intended to have the syrup tested for quality assurance or were they intended simply to measure the amount of syrup that went into each bottle? Thank you in advance for any information you can provide me with. RCB


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 4, 2015)

P.S. The site I joined is an official Coca Cola Company website. I will let you know what they have to say when they post a reply to my question. Their replies are time dated and usually occur within a couple of hours. But because of the late hour I probably won't hear from them until sometime tomorrow.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 5, 2015)

I haven't heard from the Coca Cola Company yet (which might not be until next week) but I did find this from ...         The Daily Register ~ Harrisburg, Illinois ~ April 16, 1958   [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Bo...958 (1100x587).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 5, 2015)

And this from the same page as the last article ...                                                   [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Bo...(3) (255x1100).jpg] [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Bo...(2) (1100x391).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 5, 2015)

Notice on the bottles pictured so far (including those pictured here) that some have calibration marks and some don't. If they were intended strictly for "measuring" the amount of syrup that went into each bottle, then why do some of them have calibration marks and some (majority?) don't? Without a calibration mark, how would they know the "exact" amount of syrup being dispensed? Even if the height/size of these test bottles is a factor, without calibration marks they could not be 100% accurate. The 7up bottle in question does not have any calibration marks/lines.    [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...tles (647x572).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 5, 2015)

For future reference ... The official Coca Cola formula requires one ounce of syrup per five ounces of carbonated water, which totals six ounces of drink. Double this formula for twelve ounce bottles.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 5, 2015)

Question: Because all of the syrup bottles are designed with closures to accommodate a crown cap, is it possible they were intended to be shipped to the parent company for analysis at their laboratory in order to assure quality control from their bottlers?


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## iggyworf (Dec 5, 2015)

Great work again Bob. I just got back from kayaking all day. I noticed also that some had measure marks on them and some didn't. I suppose they had multiple uses in the industry. So the wooden sleeves could have been for both, shipping & keeping it in check down the bottle line. What about this theory? Taken from one of the links I posted from 'Collectors Weekly' website. "The early bottling lines had liquid low pressure fillers. The bottles came out of the washer, they squirted syrup into them( hence the syrup throw and the use of these syrup measuring bottles), squirted carbonated water in the bottle, capped it, and then spun it or tumbled it into the finished product."


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

iggy                              I think you are going to like this one - I know I do! []  We both agree that whatever these bottles were used for that they did not go through the entire filling process because the bottles are too small to hold 6+ ounces of liquid. So that leaves some other purpose for the bottles such as for measuring and/or testing. Unfortunately, most if not all of what we've read about these bottles comes from sellers who seem to be guessing. I've looked but have not found an official account about them. I did some extensive research on the bottle filling process and it boils down to three basic stages ...                                                 1st:   Adding syrup                                                2nd:  Adding carbonated water                                                3rd:  Capping  Which brings us to the bottle and metal sleeve pictured here. The wood sleeves we discussed earlier were intended for a somewhat questionable purpose, but I have no doubt that the metal sleeve pictured here was, as the seller states, designed to be grabbed by the filling equipment. But let's not jump to conclusions and assume these bottles were intended for a syrup sample. They could just as easily have been intended for a carbonated water sample. Remember, the Coca Cola Company provided bottlers with a premade syrup that was formulated under the strictest of standards and was a secret formula. They shipped it to bottlers in various sizes, including large wooden kegs, five gallon cans, and one gallon glass bottles. Which raises the question; Why would a bottler have to test the syrup if the parent company had already done that to the minutest detail? But, again, let's not jump to conclusions because I have read accounts where bottlers did in fact have laboratories. However, most of those accounts are rather generic and don't pinpoint exactly what all was tested or how. And definitely no specific details about the bottles in question. Anyway, I currently like the following description the best of the numerous descriptions I have seen so far. It sounds like the seller knows a thing or two, especially because of the other items he got with the test bottle. It doesn't say if the paper label is original or not, but I suspect that it is. Notice the label has 6 1/2 ounces printed on it, which was the fluid contents of your average Coca Cola hobbleskirt bottle in the 1950s and 60s. Also notice the QC for Quality Control.                                 But these questions still remain unanswered ...                              1.  Were these bottles intended to measure syrup?                             2.  Were these bottles intended to test the syrup?                             3.  Were these bottles intended to test the carbonated water?                             4.  All of the above?                             5.  Some other purpose?    

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1950-60s-coca-cola-quality-control-test-tube


                            1950-60s Coca-Cola Quality Control Test Tube Bottle

                                                        Description:

"I recently picked up a really cool collection of Coke bottler quality control items...dating from the 1940s-1970s - used by Coca-Cola bottlers to test product quality and consistency, etc.
 You are bidding on a QC Coca-Cola glass bottle with a removable metal sleeve. Bottle has normal sized Coke bottle base and then assumes shape of test tube to the neck. The metal sleeve slides over and allows the filling equipment to grab ahold of it. Such bottles were used to test product mixture, etc. prior to starting a run on a production line."                                                [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...eeve 1956s 60s.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

P.S. The opening in the metal sleeve was probably intended so the equipment would grab the exposed portion of glass. Without the opening for grabbing the glass, the sleeve would just be lifted off.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> And what, if anything, does this tell us? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Coca-Cola-Syrup-Test-Bottle-Coke-Premix-Clear-Single-White-Band-11-3-4-/251705793083?nma=true&si=WDxRGzHuMFguM6FyhPc1c46PhP8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 [attachImg]https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/download.axd?file=0;685716&where=message&f=Coca Cola Syrup Te...h Instructions.jpg[/attachImg] [attachImg]https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/download.axd?file=1;685716&where=message&f=Coca Cola Syrup Te...structions (2).jpg[/attachImg]



           I'm reposting this from page one to draw attention to where the label shows ...                                                     QC 552 6 1/2 Oz.                                                    QC 572 10 Oz.                               Now compare it to the last label where it shows ...                                                     QC-551 6 1/2 Oz. If we can determine what those Quality Control numbers mean, we might be able to solve this mystery.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

&nbsnbsp;               This is somewhat current, but I'd say still relevant ... 
http://www.ukessays.com/essays/business/study-of-coca-colas-quality-management-system-business-essay.php


"Coca Cola uses both Quality Control (QC) and Quality Assurance (QA) throughout its production process. QC mainly focuses on the production line itself, whereas QA focuses on its entire operations process and related functions, addressing potential problems very quickly."


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Even though we have already seen this example, let's take another look at it and employ some of the newly found information and see if it makes any sense. I edited part of the description in order to make it a little easier to understand ...                                            (Currently on eBay and ending today) 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131664043537

                                   Etched top line above paper label    =  5.93 Oz.
                                   Etched lower line below paper label =  4.92 Oz.
                                   Etched on heel = QC 12/78

The bottle itself is an Owens-Illinois and dated 1969. I'm thinking the etched QC 12/78 on the heel is for December 1978 and might be (as the seller suggest) something that someone in the laboratory put there. If it is a date, then it suggest that whatever was being done with the bottle occurred as late as 1978. But 5.93 ounces and 4.92 ounces of what? Syrup or carbonated water?  


                                                  [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Bottle eBay 2015.jpg]


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## iggyworf (Dec 6, 2015)

I have been tryng to search for info, but have come up empty handed. My search skills are not on the expert level. As to the link you just posted, Do we know anyone that worked there in the late 70's? LOL! If that was a syrup measure. That looks like way too much for one bottle of coke. So possibly the carbonated water. But all the listings we find say 'syrup' testing bottle. I do agree with the date etched onto the bottle.
I tried a limited search of Owens Illinois for those bottles. But nothing. Wouldn't they have a record of all the bottle they produced? Not that that would tell us what the bottlers used them for.
I also would think the other major brand soda pop co. would have something similar. This is the first 7up one I have ever seen. Most seem to be Coke. Here is a link to a 'sold' listing on ebay that has three different sizes of these 'Coke' test bottles. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Of-3-Coca-Cola-Syrup-Test-Bottles-/252177437787?hash=item3ab6f2545b%3Ag%3Aem4AAOSwLzdWTjX7&nma=true&si=hgRCRJOuO4p3guM28oBU0KUm6VY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

iggy                    Good stuff - but I'm still in the "I don't know and guessing" stage. [&:]                                                   Try this one on for size ...   The paper label on the eBay test bottle shows 32 Ounces - which is obviously not the contents of the bottle itself and no doubt refers to something else. If the Coca Cola formula for a 6.5 ounce bottle calls for about one ounce of syrup per five ounces of carbonated water, then how many ounces of syrup would be required for a 32 ounce bottle?                 [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Bo...15 Paper Label.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

According to my calculator ...                                              32 minus 5.93 = 26.07                                             32 minus 4.92 = 27.08                                                            Or ...                     26.07 ounces of carbonated water per 5.93 ounces of syrup                    27.08 ounces of carbonated water per 4.92 ounces of syrup                                     [attachment=Question Mark (3).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

We can add this "Red Rock" test bottle to the list - marked on the base with Owens-Illinois 1947                                                                                                 [attachment=Red Rock Syryp Test Bottle.jpg]                                [attachment=Red Rock Syryp Tes...-Illinois 1947.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Known examples thus far ...                                                     1. 7up                                                    2. Coca Cola                                                    3. Kist                                                    4. Pepsi Cola                                                    5. Red Rock


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

Hello Bob, I have worked on bottle filling lines and the metal sleeve wouldn't have been lifted off the bottle by either the filling machine or capping machine, as neither the grippers on either machine changed elevation in regards to the conveying system. The grippers are set for a specific diameter of bottle so as not to put undo pressure on the bottle and break it. The openings were probably just to make the spacer metal sleeve less heavy and bulky. The sleeve was inserted over the bottle so it would pass through each machines grippers, There wouldn't have been anything on the grippers that would have gone into the slots, as that would mean changing all the grippers on the machines before running bottles. Which would have been a colossal pain as some of these filling and capping machines would hold thirty two bottles at once. we are talking machinery here which could put out hundreds of bottles an hour, I have worked on bottling lines with a capacity of a thousand bottles an hour, which is really humping along......Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

My current best guess is that these so called test bottles were run through the filling equipment, took a syrup sample, and were then capped and taken to the bottling laboratory to have them tested for sugar content. (And possibly for other test as well but with sugar being the primary thing being measured). To test syrup for sugar content they used what is called a "Hydrometer" such as the example shown below. Its kind of hard to explain this test, but it basically involved placing a hydrometer into the syrup, which would float and then somehow determine the amount of sugar per sample. Hopefully the information on this link, which is from 1922, can explain the test better than I can ...  
https://goo.gl/Ed98Hs

 (But what I can't figure out is whether the hydrometer was placed directly into the sample bottle that came off the filling machine or if the sample was poured into some type of vile or test tube first).                        And yes, the Owens-Illinois Glass Company made hydrometers ...                                                           [attachment=Hydrometer  Sample.jpg] [attachment=Hydrometer Owens-Illinois.jpg]                            [attachment=Hydrometer Owens Illinois 1949.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Andy : Mucho gracias' amigo. Surely the metal sleeves were intended for "something specific." But what?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Despite the research I have been doing, I do not currently know the answer to what I consider a relevant question, which is ... *Did the concentrated syrup that the parent companies shipped to their franchise bottlers contain all of the sugar needed for the finished beverage - or did the bottlers have to add additional sugar?*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

I found this in a 1922 Brewers Journal publication ...

           (It sounds like concentrates and finished syrups are two different things)

https://goo.gl/PMJwRq



If any Orange-Crush bottler desires to try the dry sugar method, we offer the following formula, using one hundred pounds of sugar, for preparing Orange-Crush, Lemon-Crush and Lime-Crush syrups.

Formula for Mixing:

Mix thoroughly fifty-one fluid ounces of bottlersâ€™ Orange Crush concentrate with ten pounds of sugar. Add this to balance of sugar and mix well; then add thirteen fluid ounces of 50 per cent solution citric acid and water sufficient to make eight and one-half gallons of finished syrup - dissolve and strain. Use one ounce of this syrup to five ounces of water in preparing finished drinks. In the case of Lemon-Crush and Lime-Crush syrup use twenty-two fluid ounces of 50 per cent solution citric acid.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

P.S. If the Orange Crush information is accurate, and similar processes were practiced by other brands such as Coca Cola, then it sounds to me as if some bottlers did add sugar to the concentrate, which in turn would explain their reasons for testing the formula prior to bottling it.


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Andy : Mucho gracias' amigo. Surely the metal sleeves were intended for "something specific." But what?


The something specific for the sleeves use would  be to make the test bottles fit into the grippers of the filling machine so the test bottles could be put onto the line during a production run, so the sample would be taken during actual filling of the product, pursuant to federal food and drug act specifications on how to sample products used for human consumption.....Andy


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

In the factory where I worked all sampling had to be done while the filling and capping procedures were actually taking place, so the sleeves would give the test sampling bottles proper girth for production line spacing feed screw applications and while actually in the filling and capping machines, all the while the product line is running along lickety split, so as to give an actual production condition during sampling, which is one of the FDAS testing requirements......Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Andy If the sample bottle(s) in question went through the entire filling process, what about them being only able to hold about three ounces of fluid? Wouldn't they overflow and make a mess of things?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Coca Cola Bottlers Contract, where I found ... 
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1491675/000119312510223971/dex102.htm



17. (a)  The Bottler covenants and agrees to use only the Concentrate in preparing the Syrup and the Syrup only for preparing and packaging the Beverage, in strict adherence to and compliance with the written instructions issued to the Bottler from time to time by the Company.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Andy Because we are posting simultaneously, things are a little confusing, but that's okay because I'm sure everyone gets the gist of it. Anyway, it seems certain to me that most, if not all bottlers, received a concentrate from the parent company and then added sugar to it to create the finished syrup. Do you agree with this?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

From ...                         The Daily Register ~ Harrisburg, Illinois ~ April 16, *1958* *                           [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Th...958 (670x1100).jpg] *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> But these questions still remain unanswered ...                              1.  Were these bottles intended to measure syrup?                             2.  Were these bottles intended to test the syrup?                             3.  Were these bottles intended to test the carbonated water?                             4.  All of the above?                             5.  Some other purpose?



*                      All things considered, I choose ...   2.  Intended to test the syrup.*


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Andy Because we are posting simultaneously, things are a little confusing, but that's okay because I'm sure everyone gets the gist of it. Anyway, it seems certain to me that most, if not all bottlers, received a concentrate from the parent company and then added sugar to it to create the finished syrup. Do you agree with this?


Yes that is true, some bottlers had license from the parent company to add sugar to the formulas, but it was carefully controlled by the parent co.......Andy


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Andy If the sample bottle(s) in question went through the entire filling process, what about them being only able to hold about three ounces of fluid? Wouldn't they overflow and make a mess of things?


Most liquid filling machines had a method whereas the charge of syrup and carbonation could be controlled by amount ( depended upon the machine and bottler) which is one of the reasons the formula was checked under actual running conditions. Our machine operator could even shut off the each head if needed. Heads are the stations on a filling machine which drop a tube into the bottle and fill it with syrup, these are actually adjustable as the machine is running, a good operator can actually follow the test bottle thru the machine, then it goes into another filling station for the carbonation injection. At least that is how our bottling plant worked. So the machine would fill the sample bottle with the formulated amount of syrup, the operator would bypass the next injection sequence and the bottle than would proceed to the capper and be capped thus ensuring actual operating procedure. We never sampled the carbonation fluid after the injection filler was loaded, each batch was checked before being put into the injection filler. Soda water is under pressure after injection so it was hard to check the bottles after that stage. you would just pull as many examples of injected (pressurized bottles) off the line for Q & A.


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

Not entirely sure if you are understanding the procedures as it is a bit complicated, but it was done as best as I can describe. It was forty years ago, I was just learning plant maintenance, and have worked for several food industries in there bottling plants, all were similar except for the soda injection systems(carbonation).....Andy


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

And the filler that put in the syrup was a first step and the test bottle left the syrup station (filler) and was pulled off the line before injection (carbonation and run thru a small capper by the syrup filling station used for capping the test bottles, as the injection filler (carbonation stage) actually capped the production run bottles after injecting or carbonating same, so you could say that the 2nd stage filling machine was also a capper, not sure if in my original explanation that was clear. IT WAS A COMPLICATED process to describe over a computer keyboard LOL......Andy


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

I am sure that these bottles were used exclusively for testing and Q&A for the syrup only.....Andy


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

As  a matter of fact I believe in the bottling plant where I worked ( Pepsi Stockton) they didn't use these little bottles at all, just would pull off a regular bottle and cap it and send it to the lab, in fact they would pull three bottles at a time and send all of them wherever they went ( Lab Testing facility in the far reaches of the plant.........Andy


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## andy volkerts (Dec 6, 2015)

Hope this all helps.........Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Andy:                    Thanks a million. We should have waited until you checked in. Very helpful and I can picture the entire process in my brain like a video. You even answered something I was wondering about as to why some bottlers didn't use a regular bottle for the samples instead of the slim test-tube-like bottles. I'm sure izzy/Rich will be impressed too when he checks in. All we need to do now is come up with an appropriate name for the test bottles that all collectors can easily relate to, such as ... *                     Premix Syrup Sample Bottle for Laboratory Testing *                                      (But shortened and not so long)                                                          []


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

P.S. The only thing I don't understand is why I haven't received any instant email notifications since iggy's last post. I wonder if its just me or if the new owner is working on something? They said some changes were coming!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

Here's another Red Rock bottle, except this example has a paper label with Owens-Illinois on it. I can't make out the date on the base but it was described as 1940s and appears to be 9 <(I)> 4?                                                    [attachment=Red Rock Syryp Tes...Illinois label.jpg]                                                      [attachment=Red Rock Syryp Tes...label close up.jpg]                     [attachment=Red Rock Syryp Tes...ois label base.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

I have been looking for different brands who used these test bottles and came across this one made by the Root Glass Company. Its the earliest example I have found and would date no later than about *1932*, which is when Owens-Illinois bought Root Glass.                                           [attachment=Syrup Test Bottle .ot Glass Company.jpg]                            [attachment=Syrup Test Bottle ...s Company base.jpg]


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## CreekWalker (Dec 6, 2015)

I used to see a lot of these test bottles, in the antique malls and bottle shows, most marked with Owens-Illinois and not the soda brand. We had so many Coke plants close in the 1970-80's in west Tn. , they were all over. Now the Pepsi , 7UP and Red Rock are real good items!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

The most often used term for these types of bottles seems to be ... [font="georgia,palatino"]*                                 Syrup Test Bottle*[/font]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 6, 2015)

I think most of us will agree that these test bottles were intended to test the soft drink syrup in a bottling laboratory - but exactly what type of testing occurred after they reached the laboratory?                                           *( Part Two  ~  To Be Continued )* * [font="courier new,courier"]1910[/font]*   [attachment=Syrup Hydrometer 1910.jpg]


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## iggyworf (Dec 7, 2015)

Andy, thanx for filling in alot of answers for us on this bottle. I have learned a lot. I was hoping we would have somebody that worked at a bottling plant. Thanx also to Bob again.

So are we to assume that these 'syrup test bottles' are:
1. rare
2. hard to find
3. somewhat common
4. common

I love the 7up one because it is the only one it seems to have the product name embossed on it


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

In this so called Part Two my primary focus will be in trying to determine if the syrup test bottles were specifically designed to accommodate a Hydrometer for determining the sugar content of the syrup. It seems to me that the design of the test bottles is more than coincidental in that they are shaped like a test tube. If a one ounce sample of syrup was put in a regular bottle the liquid level would not be high enough to float the Hydrometer, whereas in a test-tube-type bottle the liquid level would sufficient enough to easily float a Hydrometer. We already know that the Owens-Illinois Glass Company made Hydrometers as well as the test bottles, so what I'm hoping to find is a clear connection between the two.             This Wikipedia link provides some general information about Hydrometers ...                                       https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrometer   The attachments illustrate a Hydrometer floating in a test tube - so all I need to do now is find a picture of one floating in a test bottle. Which sounds easy enough but I have a feeling it won't be!                                                         [attachment=Hydrometer Wikipedia.png]                                                                              [attachment=Hydrometer.jpg]                    [attachment=Hydrometer Illustration.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

For comparison with the test tubes ...                          [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...tle with marks.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

iggy I noticed there are two bids on the 7up test bottle and just wanted to let you know it weren't me. I hope you get it!  *[]*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

Close but no cigar! [8|] I've read up on how Hydrometers were used and realize now the sugar content reading would have to be seen through the glass container that the Hydrometer was placed in. If the syrup test bottles in question were intended to be used with a Hydrometer, this might explain why none of them are made of dark glass such as amber or dark green like that of a 7up bottle. In fact, one of the first things that struck me about the 7up test bottle was that it wasn't 7up green in color. The test tube shown here is the closest I have found that resembles the test bottles, and is the only one I have seen with a wide base. But its still not the same as the test bottles in question that have the crown closures. As to measuring and reading the sugar content, let's pretend the liquid in this example is soft drink syrup. The more sugar there is in the syrup the thicker the syrup is. Thus, the Hydrometer would sink deeper into thin syrup and float higher in thick syrup. In this particular case let's say the optimum amount of sugar is 30. Notice that the liquid level line in the test tube is at 35 on the Hydrometer. Because the optimum number is 30 and the reading is 35, this tells us the syrup is thin and lacking the optimum amount of sugar. Hence, sugar needs to be added to bring the Hydrometer reading to 30. And if you think this laymen explanation sounds complicated, you should see how its worded in scientific terms - mucho confusing! Anyhoo, the search continues.                                         [attachment=Hydrometer Test Tube.png]


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## andy volkerts (Dec 7, 2015)

iggyworf said:
			
		

> Andy, thanx for filling in alot of answers for us on this bottle. I have learned a lot. I was hoping we would have somebody that worked at a bottling plant. Thanx also to Bob again.
> 
> So are we to assume that these 'syrup test bottles' are:
> 1. rare
> ...


Having never seen one in 50 years as a bottle collector and 3 years working in a bottling plant as a young man, I would say that they must be Rare, and Hard to find. There will be exceptions of course, but generally speaking I think Rare and hard to find


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## andy volkerts (Dec 7, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Andy:                    Thanks a million. We should have waited until you checked in. Very helpful and I can picture the entire process in my brain like a video. You even answered something I was wondering about as to why some bottlers didn't use a regular bottle for the samples instead of the slim test-tube-like bottles. I'm sure izzy/Rich will be impressed too when he checks in. All we need to do now is come up with an appropriate name for the test bottles that all collectors can easily relate to, such as ... *                     Premix Syrup Sample Bottle for Laboratory Testing *                                      (But shortened and not so long)                                                          []                                 Thanks Bob, but you get the most credit for starting this thread, I had to sit back and really concentrate on that old POP line that I used to repair when it broke down, which was often I might add, as we were in a old plant built in the 30s. Congrats to you and Iggy for this education..........Andy                 &nbnbsp;


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## andy volkerts (Dec 7, 2015)

I also don't know the first thing about what they did in the lab, or what they tested for, other than Syrup amount dispensed by the filler.. The only reason I know that is sometimes the filler would short the amount of syrup put into the soda bottles, and all hell to pay would break out!!!........Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

Andy Thanks for the kudos - but its really iggy who is the CEO - I'm just his cub reporter/investigator                                                               ~ * ~ Do you suppose its possible that the test bottles served a dual purpose - one for taking a test sample and one for measuring the syrup?                                                               ~ * ~ As to the rarity of these types of bottles, there are nine of them on eBay right now. Just search "syrup test bottle" and it will pull them up. The 7up example doesn't immediately come up under that heading, but that's because the seller doesn't know what he has. He just describes it as a slim 7up bottle. Actually, it appears the Coca Cola examples are somewhat common. Its others like 7up and Kist that seem to be rare.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

Here's goodman1966's Kist example again - its a beaut!  





			
				goodman1966 said:
			
		

> [attachImg]https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/download.axd?file=0;685697&where=message&f=image.jpg[/attachImg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

I'm looking for one of these books. I have seen descriptions for them that say it contains examples of Coca Cola test bottles, and possibly explains exactly what they were used for. This particular example said it contains the following categories - with, I believe, "Syrup Graduates" being another name for the test bottles ...   Beverage Preparation; Syrup Preparation; Testing Equipment; Beakers, Cylinders, Flasks, Syrup Graduates; Equipment by QC Test; Fountain QA Equipment; Sanitary Maintenance; Mechanical Maintenance; Water Treatment; Pre-Mix; and Miscellaneous.                               [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Testing Book 1965.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

This Shutterstock link is to a one minute video that shows technicians in a 1940s Coca Cola laboratory and even shows one of the techs checking a Hydrometer in a test tube filled with syrup.Check it out.  http://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip-3979834-stock-footage--s-a-coca-cola-bottling-plant-in-the-s-employs-lab-technicians-to-insure-quality.html By the way, I double checked and a typical 'Syrup Graduate' is a test tube vile, but in the case of the Coca Cola equipment book "might" be one of the test bottles.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

Coca Cola laboratory technician checking Hydrometer from 1940s video ... [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...tory 1940s (2).jpg]


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## CreekWalker (Dec 7, 2015)

The 7UP bottle may set a record for that type of syrup bottle tonight, after midnight.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 7, 2015)

Yeah, its currently at $48.00 and still two hours to go. I hope iggy/Rich gets it!


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## andy volkerts (Dec 7, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Andy Thanks for the kudos - but its really iggy who is the CEO - I'm just his cub reporter/investigator                                                               ~ * ~ Do you suppose its possible that the test bottles served a dual purpose - one for taking a test sample and one for measuring the syrup?


Bob, All I know is for sure they frequently checked for syrup amounts ( which is why they pulled actual production run bottles off the line) I wouldn't think they tested the syrup for sugar content except maybe to make sure the syrup wasnt getting too old ( think present day use by guidelines) I would think that being the syrup was actually provided by the soda co, ( Coke- Pepsi _ Seven up etc etc) that it would only be tested for freshness, possibly sugar content if that degraded over time. If I was Coca Cola I wouldn't want my syrup formula discovered by some bottling plants lab, that's for sure. It would be interesting to actually have a conversation with a Coke Lab Guy and find out what Coke required on testing besides syrup quantity, which in our plant was the BIGGIE,.........Andy


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## goodman1966 (Dec 8, 2015)

I think your on to something there Andy. My Kist example is etched for 3 different amounts, possibly for the different sizes of the bottles. And it is tall enough for the 28oz bottle. Just thinking ðŸ˜¯ Mitch


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## goodman1966 (Dec 8, 2015)

The reason for the above post, if we look at Bob's post on page 2 of the metal sleeve the opening is just right to see that fill line without having to remove it from the production line. I think the different lines just meant different sizes of bottles. Of course the really tall examples might be for the larger ounce bottles. After reading this thread all the way through again, I think they were for checking syrup quantity for the different size bottles. The ones with 1 line were dedicated to a particular size of a high volume product like Coke, Pepsi, etc. My bottle looks to have been cut at the base and a shoulder up stretched neck peice put on. For a bottler with a lower working capital such as Kist that would save them money by being able to use it for several different sizes instead of having to make one for each size. Does any of that make sense ?But I'm sure there is an answer out there some where. hey it's late and I got nothing better to do.ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜ðŸ˜


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

Andy           Please tell us more about the syrup / concentrate used when you worked at the plant...                               1.  Was it in the form of a concentrate or syrup?                              2.  If a concentrate, who/what/where turned it into a syrup?                              3.  How was it contained, Barrels - Drums - Bottles - Other?                              4.  How was it put into the bottle filling machinery?                              5.  Was the syrup flow automatic or adjustable? Which raises another question I have been wondering about - why would any bottler, even in the 1940s-50s, have to worry about the amount of syrup going into each bottle? Its hard to believe the machinery wasn't sophisticated enough at that time to do a simple, automatic measuring of the syrup without having to fuss about it.


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## iggyworf (Dec 8, 2015)

Well I am sad to say I did not win the 7up 'syrup test bottle'. I even went higher than I planned on with the urging of my girlfriend. I might have went for it if it didn't end at 1 a.m. here in Michigan. Too late for me to stay up. Here is the final listing if anyone is interesed in looking. It went for 56$ + 7.05$ shipping. I really wanted it. I collect 7up's and it would have been a great addition.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/221956073696?ssPageName=STRK:MEDWX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1435.l2648 

Thanx to SodapopBob and Andy and everyone else for all their input on this.

Another question. Why do you think  Coca Cola would put their ACL logo on the sides of theirs if you need too see the lines and read the measuring? Just goodmans Kist has what appears to be ACL on his but on the bottom part. I love the 7up and now the Red Rock Bob pulled up because of the embossing on the bottom.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

P.S. I realize that different size bottles such as 6 oz., 10 oz., 12 oz., etc., required different amounts of syrup. But even with that said, I would think it would be a simple matter of turning a knob or pulling a lever to change the flow and that would be that.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

iggy The guy who won it probably entered a $100+ max bid to assure he got it and unless someone got carried away there was probably little chance of winning it. If I had been bidding, my max would have been $50.00. I'm sorry you didn't win it, but, like they say, there are more fish in the sea and I will let you know if I ever come across another one. But next time, howz about we don't discuss it in a thread for the whole world to see.  []


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## iggyworf (Dec 8, 2015)

"But next time, howz about we don't discuss it in a thread for the whole world to see"

Funny, I kinda thought the same thing early on. But that's the way it goes sometimes. It's all fun. 

I actually outbid him at about 10 p.m. my time. Then went too bed not too much later. But he came back as well as a third person.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

This example was described as being a Coca Cola (I'm wondering how they know that?) and is a later Owens-Illinois 3 (I) 65 for 1965. But can anyone explain to me why it has ...                                                  6 1/2 OZ *Returnable?* *T**hree lines?*                                   (The etched number appears to be *1.00 OZ*)                                         [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...tle Returnable.jpg] [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...able Base 1965.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

And why does this (Made by Root Glass - which I posted earlier and dates no later than 1932) example have what appears to be ...                                                  1.  At least ten lines?                                                 2.  At least four sets of numbers?                                             [attachment=Syrup Test Bottle .ot Glass Company.jpg]


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## iggyworf (Dec 8, 2015)

Yeah i wondered how some of them are from coca cola when there were no distinguishing marks on them. Here is a link to one that is supposedly  coca cola with a cap on it. but no pics of the cap. http://www.antiquesnaviga...-bottle-test-tube.html another one with cap(anyone can recap a bottle though)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

iggy I'm beginning to think that some of these bottles, especially like the one shown here, are actually "fantasy" items.                                                                      ~ * ~ If you go back and look at the examples that have etched numbers and lines on them, notice that the etching appears to have been done "after" the bottle was made as if someone at the plant or in a lab added that information. But why?                                                   [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Test Bottle.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

For me it boils down to one of the following ...                          1.  The bottles were used for measuring the syrup                         2.  The bottles were used for testing the syrup                         3.  The bottles were used for both measuring and testing the syrup                                  (But if for testing, what type of testing?)


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## iggyworf (Dec 8, 2015)

I always leaned towards 'fantasy' piece for the coca cola ones with the logo ACL on them. There are a lot of coca cola fantasy piece's out there.  But Goodmans Kist might be a different story. Maybe he can show us more pics if he still has it. I also gear towards your number 3. But yes, what kind of testing?


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## andy volkerts (Dec 8, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Andy           Please tell us more about the syrup / concentrate used when you worked at the plant...                               1.  Was it in the form of a concentrate or syrup?                              2.  If a concentrate, who/what/where turned it into a syrup?                              3.  How was it contained, Barrels - Drums - Bottles - Other?                              4.  How was it put into the bottle filling machinery?                              5.  Was the syrup flow automatic or adjustable? Which raises another question I have been wondering about - why would any bottler, even in the 1940s-50s, have to worry about the amount of syrup going into each bottle? Its hard to believe the machinery wasn't sophisticated enough at that time to do a simple, automatic measuring of the syrup without having to fuss about it.


Hello Bob, I believe ours was a concentrate, as that was what was on the five gallon cans we received from Pepsi Cola. There was a stainless steel vat on a mezzanine above the filler which held the concentrate and water used to make the syrup, I don't recall how the water was measured into the concentrate vat. as I never had a reason to go up there, but I saw piles of 5 gal empty concentrate cans on the mezzanine so I figure it was mixed by an operator. and that is probably why the syrup into the filler was tested so often. There was a stainless steel pipe line from the concentrate vat down to the filler, which had an adjustable air valve which allowed so much concentrate into whatever size bottles were being filled. all this equipment was of the sanitary construction so it could be taken apart and cleaned every so many production hours. the flow from the vat to the filler reservoirs was gravity fed, but the filler reservoirs which held about 10 gallons of concentrate was slightly air pressurized, which would depressurize every few minutes to let in more concentrate, then repressurize to fill bottles. first reservoit a would fill than depressurize as reservoir b would fill and depressurize  and so forth and so on all shift long, back and forth  between the two reservoirs.  hard to explain but I sure you are getting the gist of things, I am sure not all plants did it all the same way, but I know they all had to start with the 5 gallon cans of concentrate, unless it came in larger amounts for more modern facilities........Andy


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## andy volkerts (Dec 8, 2015)

I am sure the constant measuring was also a part of FDA requirements as well as that of the Soda Co whoever that may have been, the FDA requirements would have been the same for all plants......Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

Because Coca Cola is the most documented brand of soft drink, I am shifting my focus to them and specifically searching for anything related to ...                             Coca Cola *Quality Control / QC*                                                   Such as this from ...                          The Daily Register ~ Harrisburg, Illinois ~ April 16, *1958*                      (On the trailer below the Coca Cola logo it has QUALITY CONTROL)            It appears that things were a lot different back in the day than they are now! [attachment=Coca Cola QC Trail...15) (1000x923).jpg]                        [attachment=Coca Cola QC Trail...00) (768x1000).jpg]                        [attachment=Coca Cola QC Trail... two (543x700).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 8, 2015)

P.S. Is it possible the filled and capped test bottles were set aside to be inspected and tested by one of the traveling lab technicians?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

This article is from the same 1958 Harrisburg, Illinois newspaper as the last one I posted, and is part of a three full-page write up about the Harrisburg Coca Cola Bottling Company's 25th anniversary. This particular portion tells us the traveling laboratory visited franchised Coca Cola bottles about "once or twice a year." &nbspnbsp;                                     [attachment=Coca Cola QC Trail...ree (548x1100).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

Something that I/We seem to have overlooked is that Coca Cola didn't introduce their 10 Oz and 12 Oz bottles until 1955. I'm not sure when the rest of the brands introduced their larger bottles, but if any of the test tube bottles that have multiple etched lines on them were made prior to when that brand introduced their larger bottles, then you have to wonder why they are marked for different measurements when the brand only had one size bottle. I suppose some of the etched lines could have been added later, but because we don't have any evidence of that being done we should bare in mind when dating the test bottles that there might be more to them than meets the eye.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

Which brings us back to the numerous test bottles that don't have any lines on them at all. If they were intended only for measuring the syrup, then how would they know exactly how much syrup was in the test bottle if it didn't have a measurement line?


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## iggyworf (Dec 9, 2015)

Is it possible soda bottlers asked Owen Illinois or other bottle manufacturers for some sort of generic sized testing bottles that were able to be capped? Then they would etch on there own measuring lines? But then we have that 7up one that is embossed on the bottom. Which didn't appear to have any etched lines at all. My earliest larger 7up bottle is from 1959. The 7up test bottle has 1946 on the bottom.


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## goodman1966 (Dec 9, 2015)

Here's some more pics of the Kist. I would definitely say hand made. Etching was done after the bottle was put together. The top line says 2 fl oz. it is 91/2 inches tall. The mold lines disappear half way down the neck, so it was defiantly stretched. To add to the confusion there are lines etched between the numbered lines of 1&1/2, 1&3/4 and 2 fl oz .


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## goodman1966 (Dec 9, 2015)

2 more pics


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

goodman1966 / Mitch                 Thanks for the additional pics - I'm seeing Owens-Illinois 1962 Whether they were molded that way or "stretched" afterwards is the $64 question. I'm leaning towards "molded"  ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

P.S. The numbers strike me as compatible with the amount of syrup for 6 Oz, 10 Oz, 12 Oz bottles. ???


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## squirtbob (Dec 9, 2015)

Here is a Squirt syrup throw that belongs to a friend of mine.  It was made at the Owens-Illinois plant in Streator, IL in 1941.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

Wow! Fantastico!  [] Did you know that the word "Graduate" means "Test Tube / Test Vile"  ?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

Upright ...                                             [attachment=Squirt Syrup Test ...rtbob Dec 2015.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 9, 2015)

Scroll to ...                                Food Test 5: How Much Sugar is in my Soda?                                        And watch the 3:00 minute Video               http://www.sciencecompany.com/Food-Chemistry-Experiments.aspx


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## iggyworf (Dec 10, 2015)

That Squirt test bottle is Awesome!!!  Interesting video Bob.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

If I understand the term "Throw" correctly, it refers to the amount of syrup dispensed from a filling machine. Based on the marks on the other examples we've seen, it appears the line on the Squirt bottle is near three ounces. And if I'm not mistaken, the only size of bottle that Squirt was using in 1941 was seven ounces. I'm not certain how much syrup went into seven ounces of Squirt, but if the test bottle line is near three ounces, that seems like a lot of syrup to me. But to be fair and open minded, the term "Graduate" also relates to measuring, as in 'test cylinder graduate used for measuring a liquid.'   Hey, squirtbob - howz about conducting a little experiment and see how much liquid the bottle holds when filled to the line. If you fill it to the line and then pour that amount into a measuring cup it should tell you how many ounces it is.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

This Squirt syrup bottle is currently on eBay and according to the directions on the label the ratio is ...                                  1 Ounce of Syrup to 4 Ounces of Carbonated Water http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-SQUIRT-SODA-FOUNTAIN-SYRUP-1-GALLON-PAPER-LABEL-CLEAR-GLASS-BOTTLE-JUG-/351579291867?hash=item51dbc240db:g:m5kAAOSw3ydV0QYD                                    [attachment=Squirt Syrup Bottle.jpg]       [attachment=Squirt Syrup Bottle Label.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

Which is the same as ...                                      1 ounce + 4 ounces = 5 ounces                                1.25 ounces + 5.75 ounces = 7 ounces                                1.50 ounces + 5.50 ounces = 7 ounces But no matter how you ratio it, it appears that about 1 1/2 ounces is probably the maximum amount of syrup that went into a 7 ounce bottle of Squirt.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

Because the Squirt syrup bottle has the words "Throw" and "Graduate" on it I have little doubt it was intended to take a sample of syrup from the filling machine in a predetermined measured amount. But what I don't know is whether the measured amount of syrup was to check the accuracy of the throw filler or to take a sample for some type of laboratory test - or possibly both. The answer might be found by determining the amount of syrup it holds at the fill line. If the fill line is near three ounces, then my guess would be that it was not intended to check the accuracy of the throw filler because it seems apparent the maximum amount of syrup in a seven ounce bottle would be no more than about one-and-a-half ounces.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

We can add *Nesbitt's *to the list. There was very little information with either of these bottles and I was unable to enlarge the pictures. Both were described as being 1950s. The most interesting thing about them it that both bottles have the words "Throw Gauge" on them just below the Nesbitt's signature. The word "Gauge" is new to us but suggest something to do with measuring.                                                  [attachment=Nesbitt's Syrup Throw Gauge Bottle.jpg]                                           [attachment=Nesbitt's Syrup Throw Bottle.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

P.S. If anyone has the ability to enlarge or in some manner determine everything that is written on the Nesbitt's bottle(s) it could prove to be a valuable clue.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

I should have looked before I leaped - because I did some additional searching and came up with what you see here. I'm not sure of the date on the base (although I think the first number on the right is a 4) but I'd say this particular bottle was definitely intended to measure the amount of syrup that was dispensed (Thrown) from a bottle filling machine.                                        [attachment=Nesbitt's Syrup Th...ottle Close Up.jpg]           [attachment=Nesbitt's Syrup Th...ge Bottle Base.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 10, 2015)

P.S.                     I forgot to mention that the Nesbitt's bottle sold for $35.00


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## iggyworf (Dec 10, 2015)

Great work Bob! On the right side of the Owens Illinois mark, I t looks like a #0 to me with maybe a . for 1940? Maybe a #9 to the left? For Streator Illinois?


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## squirtbob (Dec 10, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> If I understand the term "Throw" correctly, it refers to the amount of syrup dispensed from a filling machine. Based on the marks on the other examples we've seen, it appears the line on the Squirt bottle is near three ounces. And if I'm not mistaken, the only size of bottle that Squirt was using in 1941 was seven ounces. I'm not certain how much syrup went into seven ounces of Squirt, but if the test bottle line is near three ounces, that seems like a lot of syrup to me. But to be fair and open minded, the term "Graduate" also relates to measuring, as in 'test cylinder graduate used for measuring a liquid.'   Hey, squirtbob - howz about conducting a little experiment and see how much liquid the bottle holds when filled to the line. If you fill it to the line and then pour that amount into a measuring cup it should tell you how many ounces it is.


Bob, I heard from my friend who owns the Squirt throw and he said that it hold 2 ounces up to the line.  The syrup bottle that you found on ebay would date from the 1960's and I'm quite certain there were formula changes by then.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

squirtbob Thanks for the info. There seems to be little doubt the example you shared was used for measuring the amount of syrup from a filling machine. The same can be said for the Nesbitt's example and others like it. However, I still believe that some of the long-neck bottles were used for some manner of testing. This newspaper clipping doesn't tell the whole story but it does give us a behind-the-scene glimpse of various test being conducted. The gauge on the bottle that the man is holding must be some type of carbonation pressure checker. The instrument floating in the tall vile is no doubt a hydrometer. I'm not sure what's sticking out of the regular bottle but I'm doubtful that its a straw and it also appears to be a hydrometer for taking a Brix test of the sugar content.                                                               From ...                       The Decatur Daily Review ~ Decatur, Illinois ~ January 20, 1954                [attachment=Coca Cola QC Syrup...954 (956x1100).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

The carbonation tester and the close up of the gauge were both described as vintage 1950s. Compare them to the one pictured in the 1958 newspaper clipping ...                                    [attachment=Coca Cola QC Syrup...954 (956x1100).jpg] [attachment=Coca Cola QC Bottl..rbonation Gauge.jpg]                                  [attachment=Coca Cola QC Carbonation Gauge.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

And they came in this kit provided to Coca Cola bottlers. Compare the tall test vile that's in the kit to the one pictured in the 1954 newspaper clipping. Also notice the two clips mounted to the inside of the lid. I can't say for certain but I suspect those clips originally held a hydrometer ...                           [attachment=Coca Cola QC Carbonation Kit 1950s.jpg]                          [attachment=Coca Cola QC Carbo...s Instructions.jpg]                                                         [attachment=Coca Cola QC Syrup...(956x1100) (3).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

For Comparison ...                                                                            1.  1940s Coca Cola Laboratory                                               2.  1954 Coca Cola Bottling Plant [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Te...tory 1940s (2).jpg]               [attachment=Coca Cola QC Syrup...(956x1100) (2).jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

For Future Reference ...                                              1.  1931 - "Twenty-two scientific tests"                                             2.  1941 - "Many progressive tests"                                             3.  1958 - "Brix tests"  [attachment=Coca Cola QC Testi...931 (1100x754).jpg]               [attachment=Coca Cola QC The B...941 (998x1100).jpg] [attachment=Coca Cola QC Syrup...(2) (1100x391).jpg]


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## iggyworf (Dec 11, 2015)

Cool. I quickly looked up 'Brix Test' and found: (I am sure you know about this but here is some info.) *Degrees Brix* (symbol Â°Bx) is the sugar content of an aqueous solution. One degree Brix is 1 gram of sucrose in 100 grams of solution and represents the strength of the solution as percentage by mass.  From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brix


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

iggy / Rich Yeppers - I saw that reference and dozens more just like it - but its all still rocket science to me! We know some of the bottles were intended for measuring the amount of syrup dispensed from the filling machines. But what about the taller examples that are not marked? The $64 question is ...  *Were the taller, unmarked bottles used in a similar fashion as the tall test vials? * *                                            [attachment=Coca Cola Syrup Test Bottle Tall.jpg] [attachment=Coca Cola QC Syrup...(956x1100) (3).jpg] *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

I say ... [font="comic sans ms,sans-serif"]*                    Yes, they were!*[/font]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

These looong links are to some looong accounts about soft drink bottling. For some reason they open to the middle pages, but just speed scroll to the top for where they begin. They pretty much cover everything you ever wanted to know about bottling from the olden days to the present ... 
1888
https://books.google.com/books?id=qQM8AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA350&lpg=PA350&dq=syrup+throw+gauge&source=bl&ots=S9DMhG3QbS&sig=a5qcIb-3VXgLqUEc2NiVAslr_fQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiFmaGVgtPJAhXIXB4KHWhHAV4Q6AEIPjAF#v=onepage&q=coca%20cola&f=false

2004
https://books.google.com/books?id=jE6Gu8kchh4C&pg=PA114&dq=syrup+throw+bottle&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8zNLdq9TJAhVJqoMKHQADBToQ6AEIMDAA#v=onepage&q=syrup%20throw%20bottle&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

P.S. The Contents pages near the top of the 1888 article is set up (highlighted in blue) so you can click on them and immediately go to that chapter.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

P.S. ~ P.S. And if you use the search box that has "GO" next to it and type in something like HYDROMETER it will pull up numerous options you can click on that will tell you all about them. Or use the GO box to search for anything specific.


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## squirtbob (Dec 11, 2015)

squirtbob said:
			
		

> SODAPOPBOB said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interestingly, the squirt throw bottle that I posted is from 1941.  I have a chart for "Formulas for the NEW Squirt Base" for 1942 and it states "the following facts and directions pertain to all formulas: Throw 1 1/2 ozs. to each 7 oz. bottle."   Perhaps the formula was weakened by 1/2 oz.


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## iggyworf (Jan 1, 2016)

it is possible whoever won the 7up test bottle is trying to resell it on ebay. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/L-K-Vintage...089040?hash=item3d0d5b4010:g:Cm8AAOSwZG9WhI6Z


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