# Father/Son Wood Liner



## surfaceone (Dec 16, 2010)

Nah, this wasn't me digging with either my father or son. It was the Vogelers, Auguste and Charles A. from Bawlmer.












 Now this wasn't it for Vogeler products. There was also a real sick little _Dr. August Koenig's Hamburger Tropfen_, for which I seem to have bungled the photo. My questions for the Baltimore folk are is either the August or the Charles A. more or less common? I understand that Charles predeceased his father. The Auguste came out of this pit first, and the Charles A. was almost a foot further down. This was a 3' X 4' X 8' wood liner.

 Was the _St Jakob's Oel_ marketed to Germans, as I'm assuming was the _Hamburger Tropfen_? I'm trying to decipher
 the background of the users of this pit. There were some confusing elements among the finds.

 There were a coupl'a "Home Rule" pipes. This tells me 1886 for the pipe layer, if I'm correct as to the date of the First Home Rule Bill, and if the pipes didn't predate the Bill.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	









  These were the smalls.

 Does anyone see any ethnic ancestry in the doll's head?  






 And what's the story on the boot? Doll part, or something else? It has a finished top with a glazed cavity, the size of a pencil.






 I liked this little opalescent Chas Gulden barrel.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Am I seeing some very intricate mould cutting or an interesting case of venting "in the font"?  









 It has what I think may be a collapsed "bird swing" on the interior of the finish. Would'ya call that something else?






 There were more than a few criers in this pit.  











 This little ink was also a bright spot.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Any insights you could provide on these finds is most appreciated.


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 16, 2010)

Surfaceone,...Good to see you out digging at this time of year,...we've got so much snow and subzero temps that unless we had a spot predetermined, we're pretty much done till a thaw. All the items are cool, but the Jacobs oil's are interesting...cool that you dug two varients....A couple years back on the "Barbershop site dig" , Laur and I dug one up...I have to see which one it is. (That dig also produced Penn Digger's "Centenial Bitters",...sadly damaged)....It was also a landmark dig, because that's where we first dug w/ Mr. Fred and Digswithstick...Here's a pic or two... Here,I was contemplating what I thought was old english embossing on the bottle...Now I think perhaps it was a nod to the German immigrants who purchased it?


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 16, 2010)

Laur examines Jacob....[]


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 16, 2010)

Here it is clean,...


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 16, 2010)

Hope you don't mind a few pics ,riding the tail of your thread.....Here's a related item I picked up real reasonable at a bottle auction recently...


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 16, 2010)

Here's the other side....By the way,...The pipes are really neat, and that's a great little ink,...also, were you suggesting that the doll might be German? Thanks for sharing your digs with us,....I'm already antsy to dig again and it's not even Christmas,...May have to go south on the next fast freight....[]


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 16, 2010)

P.S...Just a thought,...wouldn't the "Home rule" logo on the pipes suggest Irish?


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## marjorie040 (Dec 16, 2010)

surfaceone,

 You were correct about the Vogelers.....Charles died 5  August  1882 and Auguste was still listed as a "druggist" in the 1990 census at age 81

 The Vogelers were involved in two enterprises in the Baltimore Directory for 1880
 A. Vogeler & Co. Wholesale Druggist 6  & 8 Liberty Street, Baltimore and Vogeler & Meyer Co. importers & manufacturers of druggist and grocers' specialties. The Vogelers were great entrepreneurs!!   (I hope I spelled that right)

 What a great dig....thanks for posting !


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## SAbottles (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi, Marjorie; was that census date really 1990? Seems that would make him more than 81 [] ?
 Surfaceone, not sure if the features are "Germanic|", but many of these "bonnet-head" dolls were made in Germany. Yours looks very similar to some of these :


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## surfaceone (Dec 17, 2010)

Hey JOE,

 Thanks for the additional images. I really like that crate. Could'ya take a photo so we could read the Label side?  






 Interesting that the stencilled side promotes "St. Jacob's Oil" while the labelled side renders the "St. Jakob's Oel" spelling. Apparently they offered the more anglicised edition in England, and the Germanic one here in the USA.






 "The smaller bottle pictured left is embossed St Jacobs Oil Ltd / London and the other three, ST JAKOBS OEL / THE CHARLES A VOGELER COMPANY / BALTIMORE, MD, USA. All three are embossed slightly differently and came from the same dump. From the advert placed in 1897 it can be seen that the company was established in 1847." From.

 I think the Vogelers were some marketing guys:






 "St. Jakobs Oel(labeled)- Tooled finish 
 Embossing- ST. JAKOBS OEL ST. JACOBS OIL LTD BALTIMORE,MD.U.S.A.
 Rarity- Rare with Label( Uncommon without label) From.

 Here's another variant, I am assuming is somewhat less common.  




From.

 I like this ad of theirs.

















 Reggie has some nice Tradecards.

 I could'a used some liniment after this dig. I dug it in two consecutive afternoons. The first was in freezing drizzle, and the second much colder day, in the early fluffy flake stages of this latest snowpile. It was a well dipped pit. There were thin pontiled bases and fragments on the very bottom and along the sides. I was running outta daylight as I finished her up. Filled her in from the glow of a street light.

 When I returned the second afternoon, there was a one to two inch frozen crust on the sides and bottom. I almost missed that little brown reed holding pipe bowl scraping free the crust. 

 Yes, the "Home Rule" pipes are an Irish thang. The pipes and the Irish on one side, with the Germanic Vogelers and the doll's head on the other, are causing head scratching and some supposing on my part. Was a pipe a pipe, regardless of the political message, or would a German immigrant not be caught smoking a "Home Rule" pipe? I'm inclined to believe that the "Home Rule" pipes may have predated the actual First Home Rule Bill of 1886. I think the cry for "Home Rule" manifested itself in articles like these pipes, and other more raucous expressions back on the old sod.

 Vogeler products, or are they A.C. Meyer products, must have been pretty readily available in these parts, as I have found many over the years.

 "August Vogeler, who began manufacturing drugs and chemicals in Baltimore in 1845, acquired the preparations of Rev. Dr. Bull in 1873, and formed a partnership with Adolph C. Meyer. The company was known under several names, and became A.C. Meyer & Co. after Meyer purchased all interests of the partners in 1883. They promoted Dr. Bullâ€™s Family Medicines, such as a cough syrup, referred to as â€œThe Peopleâ€™s Remedyâ€ and introduced in 1852, Compound Pectoral, Pain Drops, and a blood mixture. Another branch of the business produced and promoted the Dr. Koenig preparations. Red Star Cough Cure is another related product. Yet another branch put out St. Jacobâ€™s Oil. Hence, the history becomes more complicated as the years go by." From.

 Thanks for the confirmation Marjorie. William/walkingstick sez, "Adolph Meyer emigrated from Germany in 1869 and became a friend and business associate of Charles Vogeler, August's son. Vogeler, Meyer & Company produced Dr. Bull's preparations from July 1, 1877 until shortly after the death of Charles. 

 After Charles Vogeler's death in 1882 (his father lived until 1908), Meyer took over the company." From https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-49004/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#49006

 Hey Dale, thanks for the glimpse of your "girls." I can't remember digging a bonnet headed beauty with that style of peaked bonnet prior to this one. I like how you've displayed them. How'd that Kewpie get in there? Did'ya win it at the fair?


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 17, 2010)

Could'ya take a photo so we could read the Label side?



  I was going to do so earlier, but I think it's in german...anyone here translate?...Guntherhess?[]


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 17, 2010)

The litho of the German forest?


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## SAbottles (Dec 17, 2010)

Hi, Surface; no the "Kewpie" was dug as well. Love those Vogeler photos. I dug a few Jakobs Oels from an 1880s site here, also with the different spellings.
 re The puzzle over the objects from the privy, I can almost imagine two elderly German settlers saying, " Vell, vot should ve throw in ze old poop hole to confuse ze diggers in a hondred years' time Fritz?" []


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 17, 2010)

Could it have been a "double" (two family) privy?


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## SAbottles (Dec 17, 2010)

Heck Joe, I think I'd live constipated if I had to go in something like that !! []

 Heading off for my market now. Thank goodness our SE gale seems to have blown itself out. Won't have to spend the morning chasing bottles !!


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## surfaceone (Dec 17, 2010)

> Could it have been a "double" (two family) privy?


 
 Hey Joe,

 Good thought. Back in the day, in this burg, there were Irish ghettoes, and German enclaves, but, to my knowledge, not much, if any overlap. I haven't researched the address yet, nor consulted the Sanborns. This spot was not close to any of the old Irish neighborhoods of which I am aware. The site fits within a former German, middle European area of the city. Could'a been a rooming house, for all I know. Irish servants? I dunno.

 So what'ya guys think the boot was all about?


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## JOETHECROW (Dec 17, 2010)

Good point too Surfaceone!....Even here the logging camps were separated according to nationality....AND all the bottles except the ink were German,...Gulden, probably even the damaged colognes.....So,...the pipes are a fun question mark... Not so sure about the boot...It's a cool small item. Oh, btw, Dale,...good luck peddling bottles at the Flea market....Keep an eye out for Old St. Jacob....(The patron Saint of antique bottles?)[]


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## SAbottles (Dec 18, 2010)

Thanks Joe; it was a very good market, with a nice sealed case gin going for R245 ($35 on straight conversion, but actually a bit more than that really).
 Surfaceone, if I can find it I will put up a photo of other little "boot legs" (not the Al Capone type !) Which reminds me - where the heck do you find all your amazing "signature" photos? All over the Internet or where?


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## surfaceone (Dec 18, 2010)

> ...if I can find it I will put up a photo of other little "boot legs" (not the Al Capone type !) Which reminds me - where the heck do you find all your amazing "signature" photos? All over the Internet or where?


 
 Hey Dale,

 Ya know I'm a fool for a nice bootleg, so here's lookin forward. Yes sirree Bob, that's where I get em. All hail Al Gore, right.


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## Wangan (Dec 18, 2010)

Man! Miss Liberty needs a shave![]


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## Lodzaglass (Dec 18, 2010)

HI there!... your home rule pipes are of course of Irish design and are exactly the same as examples which are found all over Ireland.  This partifular style dates them  to 1912.

 You are finding some amazing bottles and history.

 Some great finds there.


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## surfaceone (Dec 18, 2010)

> This partifular style dates them to 1912.


 
 Hey Lodza,

 This is interesting. How does it's impress differ with the 1876 style. Do'ya suppose it was made at Rouses's Point? What about that whole duty dodge business?

 Shoulda said "Home Rule III, The Unresolved..."

 Is this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 the same vintage or another?


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## deacon_frost (Dec 19, 2010)

hey surf nice finds i really like the ink, glad to see your out flinging some dirt i havent been in awhile and boy am i jonesin[]


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## surfaceone (Dec 19, 2010)

Hey Brian,

 Thanks, man. I like that ink, too, but so far have not found anything on it, and I don't have a Covill's

 I went back to the site today to give the owner the Gulden's & the Charles A. Vogeler model. He liked em, and appreciated the history behind them, as did his wife. We had a great time breeze shootin, gotta tour of the remodeling of the building. Did a bunch'a dot connecting, and it turns out I had met him once about 10 years ago. I had the hardest time making him understand what I wanted when I originally was asking permission to dig. He thought I wanted to take his dirt piles, or something.

 ****Six shades of Kevin Bacon, the guy's an artist with a wife from Bucharest. Does that ring any doppelgÃ¤ngers for ya, cyberchaz? Not only that, he's originally from Joisey...


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## Lordbud (Dec 19, 2010)

> Ya know I'm a fool for a nice bootleg


 
 I've still got over 100 bootleg vinyl LPs from the early 1970s thru the early 1980s. There was this cool record store in San Jose on Third Street called Underground Records...this went way off topic...[8D]


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## SAbottles (Dec 19, 2010)

Jeepers, Jason, I thought I was a bad one for taking threads off the original topic ?!! Unless one of your "bootlegs" is the old "Living Doll" number - or maybe "These boots were made for walking " !! []


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## downeastdigger (Dec 19, 2010)

That boot is an ink bottle from Bennington pottery.   I had one years ago and sold it for $75 if I recall.  Nice digs!!


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## RED Matthews (Dec 19, 2010)

Hi surfaceone;  I will go back and look again where you commented about the venting.  I have been putting together a blog on venting for a couple years and always looking for different examples.  I assume you were referring to the lettering venting.  That is a problem with some small bottles and with bottles that had sunken panels.

 You also mentioned a possible bird swing in the neck of a bottle.  They are usually only found in the main body of a bottle, where the glass got stuck to the opposite side wall glass and pulled a cord of glass across the cavity.

 I liked the next picture of the two decorated embossing in the molds.  I would like to know more about them.

 Nice thread of coverage.  Thanks!    RED Matthews


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## akronmarbles (Dec 19, 2010)

The boot was made in Akron, Ohio by the American Marble & Toy Manufacturing Co, sometime between 1891 and 1904. Originally came with a cork in the hole. All of these were found at the factory site including the two rejects that are glazed together.


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## surfaceone (Dec 21, 2010)

> The boot was made in Akron, Ohio by the American Marble & Toy Manufacturing Co, sometime between 1891 and 1904. Originally came with a cork in the hole.


 
 Hey Brian,

 Thank you for the positive ID. Was it an ink? Was it a toy? 

 I know they were the guys that made the Blue Santa. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 I always wanted to dig one of those. No luck so far...

 Is this your excellent site? http://akronmarbles.com/default.htm You old mibologist, you.


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## surfaceone (Dec 21, 2010)

> I liked the next picture of the two decorated embossing in the molds.Â  I would like to know more about them.
> 
> Nice thread of coverage.Â  Thanks! Â Â  RED Matthews


 
 Hey RED,

 Thank you, sir. I like them as well, though they are both badly broken.







 The bottom is gone from the one with the fan shaped embossings. I was assuming that they were both colognes. I'd be happy to send them to you, if you'd like.


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## akronmarbles (Dec 21, 2010)

Yes...akronmarbles is my website. The company made lots of different ceramic toys.


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## marjorie040 (Feb 14, 2011)

> Hi, Marjorie; was that census date really 1990? Seems that would make him more than 81  ?


 
 Hello again ....Thanks SAbottles for pointing out my typo....that should read 1900....I need a proofreader!!

 Regards,


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## CWBookAuthor (Feb 14, 2011)

You are right about Akron producing clay or pottery toys.  I still have a couple boots and jugs that were dug there.

 Mike


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## rockbot (Feb 15, 2011)

cool items and great info.


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