# Blue bottle identification



## CO_bottle_digger (Nov 29, 2015)

I have this bottle that is appears to be marked with New York. I cannot make out the top line. Can anyone identify the company on the top line? And / or have any information about it?  It is deep blue, rectangular with beveled edges.


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 30, 2015)

I have no idea but it was fun not being able to figure it out anyway.


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## Robby Raccoon (Nov 30, 2015)

The mold might have been worked over to obliterate old embossing, such as with the lighthouse-shaped bitters when Skilton-Foote got them.Or, the mold was not cut deeply, and it was old/worn, so the embossing never formed well at all.Maybe venting failure?


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## glass man (Nov 30, 2015)

Looks like a "GRANULAR CITRIC OF MAGNESIA" bottle... ENGLISH in origin..but a popular import to the USA  http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=331714741408  JAMIE


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## CanadianBottles (Nov 30, 2015)

It looks like a Granular Citrate of Magnesia, but I'm almost positive it isn't.  At least not a British one.  It certainly looks like it used to say New York before the embossing in the mold was removed.  Is there anything on the other side?  It almost looks like there was an ampersand after the first line, but I've never heard of a bottle embossed only with cities. Also, would you be able to post some more pictures at a different angle?


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## Lordbud (Nov 30, 2015)

I copied the pic and turned it sideways. The second pinged out line definitely was "New York". There is too much glare/reflection to make out the top pinged out line.


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## Robby Raccoon (Nov 30, 2015)

Here it is, pic a little modified, turned too as LordBud suggested:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




I'd say the mold was hammered out/filled in, hence why we cannot read it. Look at the N in New York on the second line (first letter.) It's a total square.


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## hemihampton (Nov 30, 2015)

Another Pic? LEON.


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## 2find4me (Nov 30, 2015)

Granular Citrate of Magnesia is too long to fit on the first line, the second line says New York for sure. Who else sees the monogram on the bottom/right side of the panel? Grab a pencil and sheet of paper and maybe try to sketch over the out line of the embossing or "debossing". Do I see the "&" symbol?Just a thought -> Link


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## andy volkerts (Nov 30, 2015)

I see an A in the first word and maybe 2 rs and an a in the second word, still haven't figured it out, but would think a med or hair products bottle.......


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## glass man (Dec 1, 2015)

In the GRANULAR CITRIC OF MAGNESIA bottles  ..as you can see from the link I put on the first line is GRANULAR CITRIC ...next line OF MAGNESIA..which would seem to fit..maybe it was this at first but with some reworking was made to hold another product and NEW YORK was put in?Bottles were always being reused in ways as they were not cheap..you even read on some "THIS IS THE PROPERTY OF"   etc. Any way is is certainly the color shape size of the CITRIC bottle ..and a long time med. collector told me as far as he knew it was an ENGLISH product..none made here..but  we are all just trying to help..just my little stab at it.... of course pretty sure I am right as I usually am! [8D] JAMIE


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 1, 2015)

All I can say is I think the first netter is C, G, O, or Q but I do think I see New York. The problem with that in the first line is it could any of 1000 +/- manufactures or corner drugstores over a 50 year +/- time period. It could be a first letter of a last name or an initial of a first name etc. if that's the case. []


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 1, 2015)

I've got it blown up in Photoshop and it looks like C/G/O, T/V/Y, H/N/K/X, A, then becomes illegible at this angle until R, something that could be pretty much anything, &/S/G/Q. I have a feeling that it's either a patent medicine with a made-up name, in which it could be pretty much anything, or someone's last name, in which case it could again be pretty much anything.  It's like one of those word puzzles only you aren't restricted to it being a real word.  I don't think the first letter is an initial though, as there was clearly never any period after it. Some possible combinations for the first four letters:CYNA, OTHA, GYNA.  I could also very likely be wrong about those first four letters.  The third letter could possibly be an E, opening up endless combinations of made-up words.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 1, 2015)

That dark spot/fingerprint after the &-like thing might be hiding a "Co.", which would at least reduce it to last names.  I have my doubts though, doesn't look like enough space.


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## CO_bottle_digger (Dec 1, 2015)

I am amazed in the responses! All of your help is tremendous. I have some more photos of the words. I have been trying to decode the words in the same way with no luck on my end trying to find a company that made sense online. Here are some more photos of the words. Some seem to make a character: http://imgur.com/a/ACjbzHere they are as a single file. I darkened it slightly too: http://imgur.com/y1X5g1A


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## CO_bottle_digger (Dec 1, 2015)

glass man said:
			
		

> I put on the first line is GRANULAR CITRIC


It is close but I don't think there is enough letters for granular citric.... what do you think? I have some more photos. 





			
				hemihampton said:
			
		

> Another Pic? LEON.


I tried to enhance: http://imgur.com/fUSh1Ft


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 1, 2015)

Alright, OP sent me a new picture and posted some which are needing approval. The new picture shows that it's for sure __________ & Co.  After seeing the better picture I also have a feeling that the name might be ______BERG.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 2, 2015)

Well the posts were approved and now that I can see middle part at a better angle it isn't BERG.  I'll take another crack at it tomorrow.


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## CO_bottle_digger (Dec 4, 2015)

Any more ideas?


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## truedigr (Dec 4, 2015)

I am going out on a limb with this one. At first, I thought maybe some sort of Lactopeptine, as they are usually cobalt and from New York. I am pretty convinced it is a Hazard & Hazard & Co. Hazard was with Caswell for many years, as Caswell was with Mack. There are many variations of these firms. This is my hypothesis. RC


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## truedigr (Dec 4, 2015)

I meant Hazard, Hazard & Co. They made one very similar that has / CHEMISTS and both / NEW YORK & NEWPORT. This bottle is very similar and I'm sure they probably had a bottle without / CHEMISTS and with NEW YORK and no NEWPORT. Google it. Ebay has one that sold recently. RC


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## Robby Raccoon (Dec 4, 2015)

Why didn't you then say, "I'm gonna _hazard_ a guess and say it may be...?" Hee hee. []


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 4, 2015)

As much as I wish it were a Hazard bottle and we could finally put an end to this mystery, I just can't find any way to fit HAZARD into the shape of the peened-out letters.  The first letter is round, so it can't be Hazard & Hazard.  I thought maybe Caswell Hazard was one person instead of a a partnership and it had his initials, and it looked good for C. V/Y/T. Haz-, but the next letter is square like an N or M, very unlikely to be an A.  After that there's a letter shaped exactly like an S, no way it could be an R.   I think we can be quite sure that the name is either ---A--S--R- & Co. or ---A--S, --R- & Co. if I'm correct in where I believe there may be a comma.  At this point I think two names is more likely.  The first letter must be C, O, or G.  The first two letters must be OT, OY, OV, CY, or GY, unless one of them is an initial which seems unlikely because there's no period, or the guy has a name that defies typical Western spelling conventions (i.e. a Polish name).  Does anyone have access to an old New York directory?  There shouldn't be that many names starting with those five combinations.


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 5, 2015)

CanadianBottles said:
			
		

> Does anyone have access to an old New York directory?  There shouldn't be that many names starting with those five combinations.


You need to know what year the bottle was made or have access to many of them, they may have only lasted 1 or 2. You could go through years of these that list manufactures and corner drugstores and probably not all of them. THE ERA DRUGGISTS


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

Yeah it looks like you're right.  I wasn't expecting to find the company itself, just the owner since he likely lived in New York for more years than his company was in business, but so far I haven't had any luck finding any names that fit the bottle in the old directories I've found online.


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## truedigr (Dec 5, 2015)

I can clearly see an AZ together and possibly an H before the AZ. Possibly LAZELL, BAZIN??? I'm sticking with HAZARD of some sort.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

Yeah I see the HAZ, and I thought it was a Hazard when you first posted that, but I'm pretty sure that after the Z there's something that isn't an A, and almost positive that there's an S after that.  It's not absolutely impossible for it to be Hazard if the person doing the peening-out did weird shapes over certain letters, but then you've got two unexplained letters before Hazard and three letters after it.  Lazell, Bazin is the right number of letters but the fourth letter is triangular, so there's no way it could be an E. Now here's an idea: what if no one can recognize the name because the bottle never actually went into production?  Maybe there was a mold prepared for a company that went out of business before their shipment of bottles arrived, and then the glass company re-purposed the unused mold to make generic bottles._
_


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## truedigr (Dec 5, 2015)

The other 2 could be initials. After Hazard branched away from his partners, he could have started his own Drug Co. Some of the other letters could be DRUG CO. Hazard Sons & Co. Hazard Bro & Co. are also possibilities. They could have messed up the embossing from the start. A New York digger or collector could hold the key or have the answer. This is definitely a mystery.


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## truedigr (Dec 5, 2015)

Is the base square like a Hazard bottle or rectangle like the Citrate?


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## truedigr (Dec 5, 2015)

There was a large firm in New York called E. C. Hazard & Co., but they distributed food products such as catsup, olives, pickles.


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## CO_bottle_digger (Dec 5, 2015)

truedigr said:
			
		

> Is the base square like a Hazard bottle or rectangle like the Citrate?



It is rectangular like this http://imgur.com/MSaJk0W I'm still searching guys. I'm also intrigued why the embossing was removed. And the fact that very few of them have "New York" prominently at the bottom.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

Do bottles often have initials without periods after them?  There aren't any periods on this one but initials could make the name a lot less weird.    It's also possible it isn't a medicine bottle at all, I've seen cobalt shoe or stove polish bottles from New York before.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

CO_bottle_digger said:
			
		

> It is rectangular like this http://imgur.com/MSaJk0W I'm still searching guys. I'm also intrigued why the embossing was removed. And the fact that very few of them have "New York" prominently at the bottom.



It was probably removed so they could use a mold that was no longer being used for making generic bottles.  Though I can't remember ever seeing another instance of this happening, the peening-out is usually to put updated information about the company in its place. Sorry, what do you mean very few of them have "New York" prominently at the bottom?  Very few of what?


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## CO_bottle_digger (Dec 5, 2015)

CanadianBottles said:
			
		

> It's not absolutely impossible for it to be Hazard if the person doing the peening-out did weird shapes over certain letters, but then you've got two unexplained letters before Hazard and three letters after it.



I don't like the spacing on that very first O shape to the next letter - Almost as if it is a logo. And how confident do you think that last couple letters is Co?


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

Yeah there is something a bit weird about that first O shape.  I was wondering if it might be something other than a letter but I couldn't think of what.  I've never seen a logo shrunk down to the size of a line of text on a bottle, and that would look really weird if they did it.  I just had a thought though, what if it was a first initial that was smaller than the rest of the text so they just peened-out the whole thing in a circle?  Seems like a bit of a stretch but I feel whatever the answer is it'll seem like a bit of a stretch because there's just nothing it could obviously be. And I'm 100% confident that the last letters are Co.  An ampersand (&), followed by a large round letter and a half-sized round letter couldn't possibly be anything else.


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## CO_bottle_digger (Dec 5, 2015)

CanadianBottles said:
			
		

> Sorry, what do you mean very few of them have "New York" prominently at the bottom?  Very few of what?



Nothing really. Was trying to spot it in collections or auctions but the top lines never fit. eg. this one. and this caswell hazard bottle is close http://www.antique-bottle...me=IMG_1742450x191.jpg


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

Oh I hadn't seen a picture of that Hazard bottle.  I'm going to try to go about this in a more scientific way in Photoshop.  The A is clear enough that we can figure out a bit of what the other letters looked like.  If we can assume that the font is the same stroke (how thick the lines of the letters are) all the way through the word, then we can rule out a lot of letters and maybe figure out what a few more of the letters are.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

I'm almost positive that there are two names.  I think the second one may be YARD.  Does anyone know of any New York chemists named Yard?


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

Do Irish names ever start with lower case o's?  As in o'Connor?  That looks weird, maybe not.  That first letter really looks like a small O.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 5, 2015)

In the 1850's there was a guy named Thomas S. Yard making patent medicines.  I wonder if he ever got into a partnership.


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 6, 2015)

I did a little looking on him and he died in 1879, a bit early in my opinion. There were some New Jersey Yards I haven't looked at, one a druggist. FROM 1917 page 88[attachment=Clipboard07.jpg]


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 6, 2015)

Yeah you're right, that is too early.  And I am by no means 100% sure on it being Yard, heck I'm not even 50% sure on it being yard, that's just the first name I've been able to come up with that seems believable and fits perfectly into the space on the bottle.  Those last four letters are so messed up though, it's impossible to be certain about any of them.


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 6, 2015)

Could be FORD as well.  Or, heck, maybe he's Scandinavian and it's TORD.  I think the first letter of the second word is F/P/T/V/Y and the second letter could really be any vowel, although I is pretty unlikely.  RD seems pretty likely for the last two letters.   I'm pretty sure the first word is ---A-NS.  That leaves possible letters between A and N as E/H/I/R/U/W/Y  with a slight possibility of G/L/M/O/.  The shape of the spot, however, makes E/H/U/W/Y very unlikely.  Since it's a lot wider than an I, R seems the most likely option.  That leaves us with ---ARNS.  I found an obscure Irish name that fits - O'Tearns.  But it's really rare.   I just thought of something though.  What if that O/C/G is actually an S?  An S is a pretty round letter.  Stearns, Yard & Co. seems like a pretty believable name.  Or Stearns, Ford & Co.  Neither come up in Google searches but the more I think about it the more likely this seems.  There was a big company in Detroit called Frederick Stearns & Co.  It could be related to that, or a completely different Stearns.  There were a lot of them.


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 6, 2015)

I don't even see an ampersand but an S would be possible for that also. [8|]


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 6, 2015)

Yeah it's not easy to see these letters, I've only been able to figure out what some of them might be by blowing it up to an enourmous size in Photoshop and looking at the shape of the edges of them and ruling out what they can't be.  From the Imgur pictures I was only really able to see the A.


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## jarhead67 (Dec 12, 2015)

Flip the bottle over and try reading it opposing the NEW YORK. Just a thought and another way of trying to look at it.


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## Digswithstick (Dec 18, 2015)

Not sure if Larimore was in New York, but bottle looks similar, Rick


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## Digswithstick (Dec 18, 2015)

Sorry pic thumbnail didn't work right, have not got pic posting down yet.


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## hemihampton (Dec 18, 2015)

Pic is only 2.6 kb, you need to make it much bigger like 150 kb. LEON.


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## Digswithstick (Dec 19, 2015)

Another hopefully bigger pic


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## CanadianBottles (Dec 19, 2015)

That bottle is quite small, right?  I think the original one is around the size of a British granular citrate of magnesia.  Those are, what, five or six inches tall?  I don't think I've ever seen one in person.


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