# Possible Roman Period Bottle?



## thomasg (Nov 21, 2019)

Hoping someone out there knows ancient glass. Found in a flea market for 10 bucks, it appears to have hallmarks of Roman bottles I have researched on line, it has a hazy lightly pearlescent patina, applied handles & applied spiral on the neck. Also, a crude open pontil. I'm sure Roman bottles are faked, if so how do you tell?


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## sandchip (Nov 21, 2019)

I don't have a clue, but it's a beautiful piece with great form.


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## RCO (Nov 21, 2019)

i have no clue but doubt its roman , it could be old , its hard to guess an age with those sort of items . doubt a lot of true roman stuff has made its way to north America and a lot would be in museums or affluent collectors private collections


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## Harry Pristis (Nov 22, 2019)

*
Roman glass has an open pontil??


*


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## thomasg (Nov 22, 2019)

Not all, but yes. I found several on line in museum collections & auctions. including some that have the distinct applied spiral on the upper half. Also, the patina on this bottle is different than any I have dug, it is heavy with some tiny dark inclusions.


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## embe (Nov 22, 2019)

Looks so delicate


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## photolith (Nov 22, 2019)

I have never bought ancient glass, because I never trust it to be real. However, there are ways supposedly to tell if its ancient or not. Also, glass production looked very similar from about 200 CE to about 1100 CE. Theres no telling where, if that were real, when or where in the world it came from. It could be from anywhere in the Roman world or be Byzantine, which the Byzantine Empire lasted until 1422 or so. It could be Iranian, Syrian, Lebanese, Egyptian, anywhere in Europe, etc. I'm sure you could contact ancient glass experts in museums, IE the Cleveland Art Museum or museums in Italy, etc. Anyways, heres a video Ive watched as Ive come across a few bottles that are supposedly ancient, but Ive never found any for ten bucks, they're usually 300 bucks to tens of thousands if real. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZGTT_o8jeo&t=236s

There are many many fakes for ancient glass that are made in India and China and sold to be real, so you have to be really careful, but for ten bucks, you didnt lose anything either way.

To me, that bottle I doubt is real. It just doesn't look right and that those frail little handles wouldn't have broken over time is highly implausible. The handles to me, should have mineralization on them, but they dont appear to have much if any. But who knows.


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## photolith (Nov 22, 2019)

Harry Pristis said:


> *
> Roman glass has an open pontil??
> 
> 
> *



Not usually


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## thomasg (Nov 22, 2019)

Wow! Loved the tutorial, specially when he tossed the fake at the end. My bottle had aspects of real & fake pieces, but seemed to lean towards real. I will be looking at museums to see if someone will take a look at it. thank you.


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## bluechipcollectibles (Nov 27, 2019)

While the base bottle _could be_ Roman period, the handles are too uniform in my opinion. Most roman glass with handles are not symmetrical. That being said, it does have a similar patina and it is highly possible that the person selling had no idea what it was. Roman glass doesn't typically have makers marks on them and that makes it hard to research. I would seek out a professional who knows Roman glass and is trained in what to look for. It is hard to determine the authenticity of nearly anything from a photo. The weight, the feel of the glass, any fine chips/cracks, the pontil, etc. is important. Good luck my friend and I do hope you just got a steal.


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## slugplate (Nov 27, 2019)

Looks like it has a pontil mark in the bottom photo, I could be mistaken, it's hard to tell. I'd definitely bring it to someone who knows about historical glass making.


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## Robby Raccoon (Nov 28, 2019)

I believe your example to be a very nice fake. Below is my reasoning from empirical observations in my study of ancient and medieval glass including how fakes are produced. The market for fakes has existed for over 100 years, but it really ramped up in the 1970s. 

The bottle's handles and applied strings are rather perfect. Two for a penny was the worth of glass at the end of the Roman empire-- glass's heyday. They seldom perfected pieces. Rather, they just made them look good. There is also too much of a satin sheen left on it even though the whole bottle has been given a weathered appearance by a dip in acid. While one of my Byzantine examples still has much of its original glossy surface layer left, other layers are weathered due to the silicates in the glass being mixed irregularly throughout it. Perfectly uniform deterioration is a red flag, especially when it just looks rough and is of a single color. I bought a cobalt example like yours at a museum gift shop once differing only in its lack of weathering. It was blown in Egypt. 
While pontils are near ancient, they tend not to be seen on Roman glass. They are seen on medieval Near and Middle Eastern glass dating to the 500s C.E. and newer. The Eastern bottles, though, are thicker/heavier and more naturally translucent rather than clear. Very crude. As such, this example cannot be Levantine in origin, either. 
Ancient weathering looks like this:
https://d3h6k4kfl8m9p0.cloudfront.net/stories/jtJ92JKuDNphrSmkqbjNZA.jpeg
https://d3h6k4kfl8m9p0.cloudfront.net/stories/hLxhOLqhjD7-YU6QRAZoeg.jpeg
The above links are of multiple types of genuine weathering on a single early medieval example of glass. Any of those types is typical: Enamel-like, iridescent, or both. 

I hope this helps.


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## Robby Raccoon (Nov 29, 2019)

Here is a similar (reproduction) example in shape and construction that I came across quite by chance today.
https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/78660007_glass-vase-ancient-roman-style-contempoary-102145


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## thomasg (Dec 3, 2019)

Thanks for your info. i'm still left wondering about this one, but leaning towards fake, the one example you found has a design like mine, but differs a lot in patina and delicacy. Also, the beautiful iridescent patina seen on many genuine examples of ancient glass is mostly absent on others, due i'm sure to conditions of where it was found, bottom of an ocean or buried in a desert. Probably fake, but still would love to have an expert actually look at it.


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