# Star of David bottle



## Tisme (Dec 23, 2020)

Could anyone tell me what this small bottle is. It has a star of david with the initials M O in the middle.


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## Ye Olde Prospector (Dec 24, 2020)

Early doll's milk bottle made in Germany


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## Tisme (Dec 24, 2020)

Ye Olde Prospector said:


> Early doll's milk bottle made in Germany View attachment 215934


Thank-you for identification


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## Enasteri (May 22, 2022)

Tisme said:


> Thank-you for identif
> 
> 
> Ye Olde Prospector said:
> ...


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## Enasteri (May 22, 2022)

Tisme said:


> Could anyone tell me what this small bottle is. It has a star of david with the initials M O in the middle.
> View attachment 215924


My research shows these were used in synagogues or temples and held holy anointing oil.  I'm wondering about  the box and paper shown above by Ye Olde Prospector that shows it was a doll's milk bottle from Germany.  I think these bottles were taken by Nazis from temples/synagogues during WWII and repackaged as doll's milk bottles.  That is pure speculation on my part, but what other explanation is there for using Jewish bottles as a toy in Germany when Jews were so hated back then? Examples of Nazis stealing from synagogues. https://www.dw.com/en/what-the-nazi...es-during-the-november-1938-pogrom/a-46215426


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## CanadianBottles (May 22, 2022)

Enasteri said:


> My research shows these were used in synagogues or temples and held holy anointing oil.  I'm wondering about  the box and paper shown above by Ye Olde Prospector that shows it was a doll's milk bottle from Germany.  I think these bottles were taken by Nazis from temples/synagogues during WWII and repackaged as doll's milk bottles.  That is pure speculation on my part, but what other explanation is there for using Jewish bottles as a toy in Germany when Jews were so hated back then? Examples of Nazis stealing from synagogues. https://www.dw.com/en/what-the-nazi...es-during-the-november-1938-pogrom/a-46215426


Do you have primary sources showing that these were used for holy anointing oil?  If not, it could be like the bottles on the west coast which are widely known as "opium bottles" despite that having just been someone's incorrect guess decades ago which has been endlessly repeated.  Round-bottom soda bottles being "ballast bottles" is another one which is endlessly repeated with no evidence to back it up. 
The label shown looks like it predates WWII by several decades so I doubt it had anything to do with Nazis - especially because washing oil out of a bottle like that would be far more work than it was worth and I can't imagine that Nazis would want their children playing with toys marked with a Star of David.  There was definitely plenty of antisemitism in Germany before the 30s but it wasn't as universal and extreme as during the Nazi era so it wouldn't be as uncharacteristic for something to be marked with a Star of David around the turn of the 20th century or so.
What I'm wondering is, what does MO stand for?  Because I found another doll bottle which was made in Japan in the 50s that's also marked MO, although with a different design than a Star of David.  It must have had some meaning, but I have no clue what. 




There's another one here marked K-B as well.




This picture has one marked MO but with a circle instead of a Star of David to the left of the large one


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## Harry Pristis (May 22, 2022)

*Interesting.  Apparently, these doll feeding bottles were in wide use, at least in Western Europe in late 1800s.  Here is a pair from France:



*


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## Enasteri (May 23, 2022)

CanadianBottles said:


> Do you have primary sources showing that these were used for holy anointing oil?  If not, it could be like the bottles on the west coast which are widely known as "opium bottles" despite that having just been someone's incorrect guess decades ago which has been endlessly repeated.  Round-bottom soda bottles being "ballast bottles" is another one which is endlessly repeated with no evidence to back it up.
> The label shown looks like it predates WWII by several decades so I doubt it had anything to do with Nazis - especially because washing oil out of a bottle like that would be far more work than it was worth and I can't imagine that Nazis would want their children playing with toys marked with a Star of David.  There was definitely plenty of antisemitism in Germany before the 30s but it wasn't as universal and extreme as during the Nazi era so it wouldn't be as uncharacteristic for something to be marked with a Star of David around the turn of the 20th century or so.
> What I'm wondering is, what does MO stand for?  Because I found another doll bottle which was made in Japan in the 50s that's also marked MO, although with a different design than a Star of David.  It must have had some meaning, but I have no clue what.
> View attachment 237094
> ...


My sources are these: My own historical knowledge of Nazis stealing from Jews and reusing, reselling their possessions, (plus research to verify this online at history websites) the knowledge that the symbol on the bottles is definitely the Star of David, a symbol of Jews and Judaism, a testimony from a Jewish person that said the bottles were not used for holy water because Jews don’t use holy water, they use Holy oil for anointing. I have also written to 2 Jewish scholars about the symbols on the bottle and I am awaiting their answers. I have written to 1 German historian about the possibility of Nazis taking over a Jewish anointing oil factory and I am awaiting his answer.

There is a lot of speculation about what the initials MO refer to. Some say Mount of Olives, some say Moses’ Oil but I think the more likely guess is Myrrh Oil, since Jewish anointing oil is often made from myrrh. I have asked my Jewish scholar contacts to comment on this. MO could also stand for some Hebrew words.  I hope my Jewish scholars will tell me what they know. I will let you know if they get back to me.

Since your bottle and box seem to be from pre-Nazi era Germany, perhaps the baby doll toy company contracted with the anointing oil company for use of their bottles, since they were the right size. Otherwise I can’t think of a reason a toy for dolls would have Jewish symbols on them in Germany, or anywhere else.


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## CanadianBottles (May 23, 2022)

Enasteri said:


> My sources are these: My own historical knowledge of Nazis stealing from Jews and reusing, reselling their possessions, (plus research to verify this online at history websites) the knowledge that the symbol on the bottles is definitely the Star of David, a symbol of Jews and Judaism, a testimony from a Jewish person that said the bottles were not used for holy water because Jews don’t use holy water, they use Holy oil for anointing. I have also written to 2 Jewish scholars about the symbols on the bottle and I am awaiting their answers. I have written to 1 German historian about the possibility of Nazis taking over a Jewish anointing oil factory and I am awaiting his answer.
> 
> There is a lot of speculation about what the initials MO refer to. Some say Mount of Olives, some say Moses’ Oil but I think the more likely guess is Myrrh Oil, since Jewish anointing oil is often made from myrrh. I have asked my Jewish scholar contacts to comment on this. MO could also stand for some Hebrew words.  I hope my Jewish scholars will tell me what they know. I will let you know if they get back to me.
> 
> Since your bottle and box seem to be from pre-Nazi era Germany, perhaps the baby doll toy company contracted with the anointing oil company for use of their bottles, since they were the right size. Otherwise I can’t think of a reason a toy for dolls would have Jewish symbols on them in Germany, or anywhere else.


It's possible that the six-pointed star is unrelated to Jewish symbolism in this case.  I've seen bottles using it in the past which don't seem to have any connection to Judaism, although most times it indicated a Jewish owner.  Since M-O also appears on doll bottles which were made in Japan after the war, I have my doubts that it has anything to do with Judaism.  Also, your guesses as to what it stands for are all in English - if these bottles were intended for use in Germany it would presumably stand for something in German.  The Japanese bottles seem to be intended for use in English-speaking markets though, so I really have no idea which language it might be in that case.

In terms of the manufacturer, unrelated embossing was pretty much never used for products ordered from a glass factory by a different customer.  It was very easy to alter a mold to remove embossing if someone wanted to re-use existing molds.  I'm pretty confident that the people selling these baby bottles wanted that embossing on there, but I can't begin to guess why or what it means.


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## CanadianBottles (May 23, 2022)

One possibility is that it's a knockoff of a well-known baby bottle design.  I wonder if it could be intended to invoke the Acme Nursing Bottle without violating any patents.


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## Harry Pristis (May 23, 2022)

*It's hard to believe that a Jewish ceremonial oil bottle would be embossed in English "M O" instead of Yiddish "מ אָ".  Trying to reconcile the strong evidence of "doll nurser" with the zero evidence for "Myrrh Oil" using the Nazi canard is just preposterous.*


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## Enasteri (May 23, 2022)

Harry Pristis said:


> *It's hard to believe that a Jewish ceremonial oil bottle would be embossed in English "M O" instead of Yiddish "מ אָ".  Trying to reconcile the strong evidence of "doll nurser" with the zero evidence for "Myrrh Oil" using the Nazi canard is just preposterous.*


I agree, but since this bottle was sold in Germany as evidenced by Ye Olde Prospector above, perhaps they used the Latin letters instead.  It is an enigma with all these various symbols together.


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## Enasteri (May 23, 2022)

CanadianBottles said:


> One possibility is that it's a knockoff of a well-known baby bottle design.  I wonder if it could be intended to invoke the Acme Nursing Bottle without violating any patents.
> View attachment 237122


That is another possibility, although that star doesn't look like the Star of David.


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## Enasteri (May 23, 2022)

CanadianBottles said:


> It's possible that the six-pointed star is unrelated to Jewish symbolism in this case.  I've seen bottles using it in the past which don't seem to have any connection to Judaism, although most times it indicated a Jewish owner.  Since M-O also appears on doll bottles which were made in Japan after the war, I have my doubts that it has anything to do with Judaism.  Also, your guesses as to what it stands for are all in English - if these bottles were intended for use in Germany it would presumably stand for something in German.  The Japanese bottles seem to be intended for use in English-speaking markets though, so I really have no idea which language it might be in that case.
> 
> In terms of the manufacturer, unrelated embossing was pretty much never used for products ordered from a glass factory by a different customer.  It was very easy to alter a mold to remove embossing if someone wanted to re-use existing molds.  I'm pretty confident that the people selling these baby bottles wanted that embossing on there, but I can't begin to guess why or what it means.


Yes, after doing more research on the internet, I found that the six pointed star was used in Hinduism, a symbol that indicates the unity of opposites (two triangles oriented in opposite directions.)  A hexagram figure of a six-pointed star was also used in mysticism/occultism as a talisman or for conjuring spirits. If we could get a date of these bottles we would have a better idea of which symbol this is supposed to be. None of that explains why it would be used on a doll's bottle in Germany.


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## CanadianBottles (May 23, 2022)

Enasteri said:


> Yes, after doing more research on the internet, I found that the six pointed star was used in Hinduism, a symbol that indicates the unity of opposites (two triangles oriented in opposite directions.)  A hexagram figure of a six-pointed star was also used in mysticism/occultism as a talisman or for conjuring spirits. If we could get a date of these bottles we would have a better idea of which symbol this is supposed to be. None of that explains why it would be used on a doll's bottle in Germany.


It might not mean anything.  If they were trying to suggest the design of the Acme Nurser without copying it directly then they may have just chosen a fairly similar star design.  Some of those symbols used in occultism were reused as meaningless decorations later on.  

I would like to know what M-O stands for, but it's possible the letters were chosen randomly for the sake of a fictional logo.


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