# I NEED HELP!!!!!    PLEASE!!!!!



## bobclay (May 23, 2006)

Hey everybody!

 I NEED SOME HELP! I am sick and tired of seeing all of these "private" auctions selling reproductions with misleading descriptions or out and out lies. Clearly, some sellers are using this ebay feature for hiding behind. There are legitimate uses for this feature but these sellers are abusing it and they full well know it.

 I have two contacts within ebay that have helped me several times get unscrupulous sellers off ebay and I am writing them to voice my opinion of this serious issue. And it happens in almost every category...repros abound everywhere. Some sellers, (and I could name at least 20) ALL the stuff they sell is new, made to appear old and listed with entirely misleading descriptions.

 What I'm proposing is simply this. I know each and every one of you has a real life and time is precious. But please, for the sake of your hobby, whether it be jars, bottles, pottery, McCoy or whatever, take a few minutes and email ebay about the abuse of this feature. If enough people complain to ebay about it, maybe they will do something about it. At the very least, they could change the criteria for using this feature. There are several ways of contacting ebay or safeharbor, or for suggestions etc, so if everybody uses their own method perhaps we can get our point across.

 I am posting this letter in every jar/bottle/glass forum I am a member of, to my ebay contacts and also to several Discussion Boards on ebay, in hopes of getting a volume of people to complain about misuse of this feature, which is making some sellers rich and burning fellow collectors every day. Here's your chance to do your part to help your hobby as a whole. Collectively, we may have more power than you think. And even if we don't succeed, we will have tried.

 Thank you!  )

 Bob Clay


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## capsoda (May 23, 2006)

Done.

 Thanks Bob.


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## bobclay (May 23, 2006)

Hi Warren,

 Thank YOU!  

 This is only a thought, just an idea, and may not matter to ebay at all. But surely, if enough folks write and voice their opinion that the private auction feature should be revamped to exclude many of the sellers that only use it to hide behind, we MAY get some results. Don't hold your breath, but at least we can say we tried.

 All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to sit back and do nothing. In 2001 I started my campaign against sellers of mislisted repros on ebay. I made my ebay About ME page. I wrote and published articles on repronews and fruitjars.com. I made "info-auctions" of the repros I had. For a while, we made a signifigant dent in that area. Now though, it is more prevalent than ever before and usually private auctions.

 Had a lady on one of the ebay Discussion boards challenge me earlier. "What's it to you? All the bay pages say caveat emptor." What's it to me? We police our own hobby because no one else will do that for us.

 Bob


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## tncgal (May 24, 2006)

Bob, don't forget to post it on the _Pottery, Glass and Porcelain Discussion Board_ on eBay.  Scan back 4-5 pages and read how some of those people are approaching this same problem.  Here's what a few of them have done.

http://www.fraudonebay.net/

http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=auction*sellers*against*fakes

http://www.oldetymecollectiblespottery.com/fake/fakeindex.html


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## bobclay (May 24, 2006)

Hi tncgal - pleased to "meet" cha! This was posted on the pottery board by a friend of mine that is an expert on McCoy. And we all know how many fakes there are in that area. It was also posted on the Discuss New Features Board and on the Glass board, although some of the "glassies" disagreed. And in three other jar forums as well.

 Clearly it is a problem that should be brainstormed by the Powers that Be at ebay to come up with an equitable solution. Ebay KNOWS this is a problem, but currently, just chooses to ignore it. But if enough people email them about it, then MAYBE there will be a solution. What a good solution is, I really don't know. But there has to be one that won't hurt the legitimate sellers that occasionally use this feature but that will stop the junk sellers from hiding behind it.

 The more people that complain to ebay, the higher the chance they will act. So the more places it is posted be better.

 Bob


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## bobclay (May 24, 2006)

Hi again tncgal - 

 EXCELLENT LINKS! Everyone here should check them out!

 Thanks!  )

 Bob


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## cookie (Jun 26, 2006)

Bob-I couldn't agree with you more- you have to be extremely careful in any transaction ..I've built some great relationships since I started collecting...and I've had some bad experiences-I just don't deal with those people again-and I let other collectors know about them-this is supposed to be enjoyable and that's the way I approach it-keep up the good work-John


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## bobclay (Jun 26, 2006)

Hello cookie and everyone else,

 Just a little more on this issue. A fellow jar collector and researcher recently went to ebay Live and addressed some of the ebay staff with our concerns. He had several letters from advanced collectors and dealers complaining of the misuse of private auctions to hide behind and also had several lists from people identifying some of the major players/sellers that routinely misuse this feature to sell nothing but reproductions. He also provided them with several suggestions that ebay might implement that would eventually stop this practice and punish sellers that would misuse this feature for otherwise than what it was intended. He said the information was very well received and recognised as a problem that should be addressed.

 However, I am not optimistic about ebay actually implementing anything unless MANY people write to them and complain about this problem. So once again, I ask everyone who is concerned about this problem to take a few minutes to write to ebay and complain. Collectively, we may be able to make our voices heard.

 Thanks!  )

 Bob Clay


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## diajoy33 (Jun 26, 2006)

I was one the people that put a fake piece on. I did not know it was a fake piece of pottery. It was a learning lesson for me. If you spot the fakes when emailing these people be nice. I had one guy who was really nasty, the other guy gave me sites and  info and I learned that it was a fake for myself. Took it off of course, but the mean guy turned me off. Sugar gets more results.


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## bobclay (Jun 27, 2006)

Hi diajoy33,

 You are absolutely correct! I always email sellers first, and very politely inform them what they are selling is a repro and provide informaiton to back up my claims. And yes, some people DO get nasty when they too inform sellers. I try to give all the benefit of doubt at first, as no one knows all there is to know about antiques. It is easy to tell the honest sellers from the scum though, by how they react to the facts.

 But most of the sellers using private auctions KNOW what they're peddling is junk and MANY people have emailed them in the past. They just never respond and continue on with their desception. And ebay was given several lists of these sellers that hide under both private auctions and private feedback. Hopefully, they will investigate them and advise them to change their ways or be booted off ebay.

 In today's world, although unfortunate, there will always be people scamming other people, no matter what anyone does. But at least in the jar collecting hobby, we can hold our heads high and say we TRY to do what we can to keep our hobby enjoyable for all!  )

 Bob Clay


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## diajoy33 (Jun 27, 2006)

Bob, Thanks for the help. How do you spot a repro. Is there a book i can get that is a good resource. Just getting into this selling stuff on the internet and would like to help spot fakes and have the knowledge for myself. Dianne


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## poorjodie (Jun 27, 2006)

A year or so back I got taken by a ebay seller. His photos and write ups were intentionally done to make his items look like something they weren't. When I confronted him about the fake he had sold me he claimed he didn't know the item was not the "real deal" and would not make good on his money back offer. I left him negitive feedback which resulted in him leaving me negitive feedback. Then I put in a comlaint to ebay which got no results until he had ripped off several other people and they too complained to ebay. He was finally barred from selling on ebay but only after several months and 6 or 7 of us making formal complaints. All I got out of dealing with him was a worthless piece of trash and negitive feedback that ebay has refused to remove. My best advise about ebay is, BUYER BEWARE.


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## bobclay (Jun 27, 2006)

diajoy33.

 I have providd articles on my ebay About ME page pertaining to many of the repro fruit jars out there. The Redbook also has a section in the back devoted to reproduciton fruit jars.

 http://cgi3.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=bobclay

 There are also several sites on the web dealing with repros, which have found their way into all genres of collecting. I also have articles on repronews.com which is another excellent site for finding out all you can about ANY type of reproduction.

 Poorjodie, you are right, CAVEAT EMPTOR as an absolute must when buying anything on the internet! And it is through discussion groups like this one that we ALL gain more information which protects us from the people that would intentionally rip us off. And it is important to remember that not ALL people that list repros are intentionally trying to scam. They likely got stung like the rest of us and didn't know it. But it is easy to see their intentions once they have been advised of the facts. Probably 50% of the people stop their auctions, maybe 30% amend their auctions with the facts. The ones that do nothing speak volumes about their intentions.

 Bob Clay


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