# Whittle Pic



## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Saw George's post with whittle. Thought I would start one so folks can show their best whittled bottles. Here is a bottle that takes whittle to a new level. To me a nicely whittled bottle is more valued than the same non whittled bottle. A personal preference maybe.


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 14, 2011)

That's insane! That mold was cast than way on purpose.[][]
 Is it embossed Rory?


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## cyberdigger (Jan 14, 2011)

[] An amazing example, Rory!! It's beyond hammered!! It almost looks like a pattern mold..


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## georgeoj (Jan 14, 2011)

Very Nice!!


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks, it's a Schenck's Pulmonic Syrup.


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 14, 2011)

That was my first guess but I don't see it ever being read past the whittle.


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## JOETHECROW (Jan 14, 2011)

Great photo Rory!


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## RED Matthews (Jan 14, 2011)

Well Road Dog;  That is quite a pattern of something beyond the Cold Mold Ripple that I wrote a blog about.  A cold mold cavity causes the glass parison to not make uniform thickness when it is blown against the mold cavity surface.  This variation in thickness is what we see and many books and people call it whittle.

 Earlier iron molds were made from cast iron poured against a wooden pattern form, for the mold cavity formation in the casting process.  This iron was similar to a Class 30 Cast Iron and had a Type A (Y shaped) carbon formation.  In 1866 at a pressed glass factory in Wheeling W.Va.; two men Michael Sweeney and J.E.Mathews patented the idea of following the principle that was used for making plow points of a chilled iron to increase the wear resistance - to their making of the iron press molds for better glass release from the patterned molds used for pressware.  So they tried the process and from reading their patent over, I doubt that they even knew about how it changed the graphite formation in the iron from Type A to Type D.  Type D is a dendritic type of graphite that formed itself in the iron in straight lines of graphite nodules in the iron that radiated off the cast iron chill that was laid in the sand and had the molten iron flow over it when the half mold casting was made. 

 They realized that they got a better polish in the iron decorations because of the improved iron tightness and got a better looking luster on the surface of the glass; but I doubt if they even realized that the glass looked better because the chilling of the iron changed the rate of heat transfer in the mold metal.  This concept grew and was finally into the glass bottle mold castings in just a few years, which I identified by my collection of the SARATOGA Mineral Water Bottles.
 I read about this patent in the book Early American Glass by Rhea Mansfield Knittle, after about fifteen years of searching after I went to work at Thatcher Glass and asked the question at a corporation meeting and no one could tell us anything.  

 I have seen the ripple in different directions both horizontal and vertical; but not like yours.  I don't have a clue about what makes the ripple go in the different directions either.  But the anomalies of marks on and in the glass keep me occupied anyway.  

 I decided to point out to you and the others, that for years they used to put a solid gather of the molten glass (metal) into their molds to let the solid chuck of hot glass pre-heat the molds to let them make better looking bottles.  These solid bottles were thrown away because they couldn't be used as cullet for remelt.  They have found a lot of them in the South Jersey glasshouse trash piles.  I just haven't gotten one yet for my own collection.

 I would like to use your picture in a blog I am working on for my homepage.    RED Matthews


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## RICKJJ59W (Jan 14, 2011)

WoW wicked  C[8D][8D]L   bottle!


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Thanks Ya'll. Thanks for the info Red. Use any of my pics on this sight you like. The whittling on this one reminds me of ripples on water. This bottle also has some kool bubbage (bubbles) in it.


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Here are the other sides in case you are interested Red.


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

The other


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## Wangan (Jan 14, 2011)

Excellent bottle Rory!I was going to say the same thing.The ripple reminds me of moving water too! I love this effect too! ~Tim


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## woody (Jan 14, 2011)

Was that bottle tumbled???
 It almost looks surreal......


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## woody (Jan 14, 2011)

Here's one of mine....


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## woody (Jan 14, 2011)

Another shot


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Nice whittle on that one woody. Love that crooked top too! 

 The Schenck's has not been tumbled. Has alot of base wear like it's been on a shelf all it's life.


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 14, 2011)

Wow, just catching up. All that whittle and letters too!!! Happy Dance again!


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## RED Matthews (Jan 14, 2011)

Well Road Dog and Woody. 
  I have studied a lot of glass out of many different metal molds and the type of pattern in these three bottles just doesnâ€™t seem to fit, what I have seen as related to the use of iron for a mold metal.  Do you any correlation to where these products were bottled?   I will just have to keep on checking for what I can find.  Nice bottles that is for sure.  RED M.


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## Steve/sewell (Jan 14, 2011)

Nice Rory,good looking bottle Woody.The whittled glass does have a luring charm about it.Here are two bottles with some whittle.The second and fourth left to right.The Booz bottle original number 2 and a Clevenger made number 4.


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## cyberdigger (Jan 14, 2011)

Nice pic Steve!


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Schenck's was bottled in Philadelphia. Not sure which glass factory made it. Steve might know on this one. 
 Here's another pic of more regular type whittle on a Langley's.


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## cyberdigger (Jan 14, 2011)

Dang, man! Them's kernels on a horn!! []


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Dang Steve. That right one is drool worthy.[]  I'm saving Steve's pic![]


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## cyberdigger (Jan 14, 2011)

...dang!.... []


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

Dang- Nabit![]


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 14, 2011)

That looks lake a 99 but are they backward. No matter, I think it's 50/50 but curious.


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## Road Dog (Jan 14, 2011)

It's a 76.


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## Road Dog (Jan 15, 2011)

Here's a couple of ones with vertical whittle.


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## Road Dog (Jan 15, 2011)

Another


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## sandchip (Jan 15, 2011)

Maybe this will help to explain the whittle pattern on the Schenk's (beautiful bottle, by the way!)  As the bulb-shaped parison comes in contact with the cooler mold wall, the iron pulls enough heat out of the hot glass to stiffen not only what comes in contact, but a fraction of an inch into what hasn't touched the mold yet (first arrow).  Then the glass is still pliable enough to flex at the second arrow, and so forth, until the mold is filled.  Just like the pinched gather anomoly, you gotta think in slow motion and although my drawing's only in two dimensions, think in three to picture why it looks like a wood knot.


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## sandchip (Jan 15, 2011)

Here's the 1,2,3 on a bottle that, although rare, I've seen other examples blown in the same mold that don't exhibit the same marks, so it's not in the mold.


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## sandchip (Jan 15, 2011)

Oops, wrong picture.  Here ya go.


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## sandchip (Jan 15, 2011)

Even whittled on the bevelled corners.


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## sandchip (Jan 15, 2011)

Also meant to mention that the cylindrical bottles won't have the same type whittle pattern for obvious reasons.  Ones with flat panels will have the "wood knot" look.


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## cyberdigger (Jan 15, 2011)

Great job explaining whittle, Sandchip!!


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## Road Dog (Jan 15, 2011)

Great expaining there and pics too. Even I can understand it.[]


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## bottle34nut (Jan 15, 2011)

this is one of the only bottles i have that is heavily whittled.  greg


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## bottle34nut (Jan 15, 2011)

and a closeup.  very hard to photograph the whittle.  the pictures dont do it justice.  greg


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## Road Dog (Jan 15, 2011)

Purty Bottle Greg. I can see the whittle. You have to get the light right on some of them. I used to have a few Quart Mineral waters that were whittled. A Middleton I had was really whittled.


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## beendiggin (Jan 15, 2011)

Here is a poison from Denmark which I dug about 25 years back.


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## Road Dog (Jan 15, 2011)

Nice. That whittle looks like what's on my Davis & Miller. Excellent photo.


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## Wangan (Jan 15, 2011)

Man I`m starvin` for one of those![sm=tongue.gif]


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## cobaltbot (Jan 15, 2011)

Great bottles, maybe there was an earthquake at the time they were blown[]


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## Road Dog (Jan 17, 2011)

My two most whittled together.


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## RED Matthews (Jan 18, 2011)

Well sandchip I thank you for your explanation.  I feel it adds a valid explanation of the different types of ripple we find in early glass bottles.  My writing on Cold Mold Ripple was based on my orientation of the change in the SARATOGA Mineral Water Bottles that told me when they started eliminating the so called whittle in bottles when they started chilling the mold cavity shape of the bottle in the casting process of the gray cast iron the were making molds out of.  Thanks for the thoughts and illustrated logic of these different glass markings.   RED Matthews


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## Dabeel (Jan 18, 2011)

Wow! That's a great bottle Paul!

 Doug


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## beendiggin (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks Doug.  Nothing like a well whittled bottle.  Those aqua meds look so unreal.  It would be cool to just collect whittled bottles.  What a display that would be.


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## cyberdigger (Jan 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  cobaltbot
> 
> Great bottles, maybe there was an earthquake at the time they were blown[]


 
 LOL []


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## MaineMtnDigger (Jan 21, 2011)

Hey Road Dog or any one elsa, this is a little off topic but did you know they made a teal version of your schencks bottle


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## MaineMtnDigger (Jan 21, 2011)

And heres my whittle pic not very good bad lighting but i didnt want to ruin the post with the other one i did.


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## beendiggin (Jan 22, 2011)

Hi Jon, did you dig that Kelly's?  I'm still hoping to get a dig or two in with you .


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## MaineMtnDigger (Jan 22, 2011)

Matter of fact I did dig this Kellys, but unfortunately theres a crack on the base. I was prety ticked when i pulled that up and found that. I hadnt forgoten about you either, this past summer has been hecktic for me. Keep in touch.


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## beendiggin (Jan 22, 2011)

Jon, that's the kind of digging I'm thinking about...the pontilled kind.


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## Road Dog (Jan 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: MaineMtnDigger
> 
> Hey Road Dog or any one elsa, this is a little off topic but did you know they made a teal version of your schencks bottle


 That's a shame on that one. Thanks for showing.


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## MaineMtnDigger (Jan 23, 2011)

heres a broken star spring  saratoga water botter of mine turned into a mug. I could bare to thro it back it looked to nice so I made somthing of it. This one has lots of whitle marks going arounf the whole thing also.


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## MaineMtnDigger (Jan 23, 2011)

pic 2


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## Road Dog (Jan 23, 2011)

Nice color on that. I'd have done the same.


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## Road Dog (Jan 23, 2011)

Here's some regular looking whittle.


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## Road Dog (Jan 25, 2011)

Flask


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## Stardust (Jan 26, 2011)

Very nice post, and I think they do look tumbled Woody as do do look surreal. I also like the star glass. [] 
 Very nice, I wish I still had my bottle cutter that I had as a kid to make all my glasses out of bottles.


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