# rare 1/2 pint double eagle before/after



## druggistnut (Oct 15, 2010)

I was told by two Pittsburgh fellas that there _might_ be another one of these 1/2 pints, in this green color, in a Ohio collection. That, along with estimates of it's worth, made Tom and I decide to have it professionally cleaned. Tom and I both have tumblers, but we didn't want to risk this one.
 The guy who did this used tiny #14 or #16 pieces of copper on the inside and plastic pellets on the outside. The total turn time was three weeks.
 It's hard to get the real sense of the color of this thing, so I put a couple aqua bottles next to it in the last picture.
 This is going to John Pastor's American Glass Gallery for auction (unless someone makes a ridiculous offer first).


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## druggistnut (Oct 15, 2010)

AFTER


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## druggistnut (Oct 15, 2010)

Color comparison


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## JOETHECROW (Oct 15, 2010)

Sure turned out nice....


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## buriedtreasuretime (Oct 15, 2010)

This is a beautiful piece but why do we have to make these amazing pieces of history look like they have no history.  Yes I know that we love our shiny bottles but maybe that should be those that are found under houses or in attics or towers or ash dumps not affected by water or content stain. I remember as a boy at just the thrill of finding these beautiful things covered in muck and then washed off they have that wonderful hazy softness of being buried 140+ years.  I own two of these flasks in the pale aqua, a large and a small and I bought them on EBAY and they are tumbled to death and so they look so "new".  This wonderful green flask seemed to have such a great overall softness to it before anything was done. I hope that we dont do that to everything we unearth.  But that is just my thought, you will probably throw tomatoes at me now!  I just had to say it... Tim


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 15, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  buriedtreasuretime
> 
> This is a beautiful piece but why do we have to make these amazing pieces of history look like they have no history.  Yes I know that we love our shiny bottles but maybe that should be those that are found under houses or in attics or towers or ash dumps not affected by water or content stain. I remember as a boy at just the thrill of finding these beautiful things covered in muck and then washed off they have that wonderful hazy softness of being buried 140+ years.  I own two of these flasks in the pale aqua, a large and a small and I bought them on EBAY and they are tumbled to death and so they look so "new".  This wonderful green flask seemed to have such a great overall softness to it before anything was done. I hope that we dont do that to everything we unearth.  But that is just my thought, you will probably throw tomatoes at me now!  I just had to say it... Tim


 
 I'm going to have to side with BTT.The first shot of the bottle looks like it should after that long nap.
  When dug bottles are cleaned "spotless" its kinda of like the history was just wiped off of it.
  Everyone has there own way,spotless and  crystal clean takes  the 19th century look right off.
  I dont care if you throw rocks at me thats my 2 cents []


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## epackage (Oct 15, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
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> 
> ...


 I thought the same exact thing before reading these two posts, now it looks like it was made last week, but if that helps it sell I guess it's better for you....Jim


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## sandchip (Oct 15, 2010)

I'm a mint bug if there ever was one, but I gotta say it did look better before cleaning.  It's still a beautiful bottle, man, but it just seemed older and more primitive, especially with the field and trees in the background.  The top looked better and the embossing looked more defined.  Not to say that the thought never crossed my mind, but I wouldn't clean this one for all the money in the world.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 15, 2010)

Its nice either way but I would prefer it cleaned. Dont know why, I just like flasks to be clean?.?.?


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## CanYaDigIt (Oct 15, 2010)

I've wrestled with the notion of cleaning some of the ones I've got, and still do on occasion.  It's hard to see whittle under stain.  I think the flask looks great cleaned up, although it looked great before too.  The best part about it is the fact that plastic pellets were used on the exterior.  It kept most if not all of the texture intact.  It certainly doesn't look over tumbled or super slick like so many sodas we see.  Most of the flasks you see in any major glass auction were cleaned to one extent or another anyways.  I think you made a decision that will more then pay for itself.  Nice flask.  One question I've got though is why are you selling it?  It would take a team of wild horses to get that away from me if I dug it.


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## the ham man (Oct 15, 2010)

i gotta go with the cleaned up version. i dont see how people say it looks newer. if anything i think it looks older with all the whittleing(not sure if i spelled that right)[].it would make a great window bottle now! thanks for sharing


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## GuntherHess (Oct 15, 2010)

> It's hard to see whittle under stain.


 
 That's one of my main reasons. I love cold mold cooling effects.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 15, 2010)

I think there are certain bottles whose sickness adds to their charm, but that was not the case with this flask.. it looks much better cleaned up, in my opinion.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 15, 2010)

tumbling normally involves cutting and polishing.  Excessively cut bottles are definately a bad thing. Thats where you get that weird fading of the embossing.
 Its all in the eye of the beholder (or holder) though ...


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 15, 2010)

If your doing if for sale you kindof gotta do it or you'll get nothing. If your sending to auction you do have to mention it though. I don't know which would make more but it still should be said. A serious collector will know.


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## druggistnut (Oct 16, 2010)

Aaron,
 There were two of us on this dig, hence a split. I really don't collect flasks, but I do keep some of them I have dug. You're right, if I had dug it on my own, it would have stayed with me, soap and water cleaned, as it was. None of the hutches in my collection have been tumbled and very few druggists.
 Bottom line, Tom and I couldn't some up with a value we were comfortable with ( some flasks have been going nuts) and what we kinda half-hazardly guessed at, neither of us wanted to or could afford to buy the other out.
 This flask has no orange peel effect of slickness that is referred to here. It is one of the best cleanings I have ever laid eyes on.
 Bill


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## suzanne (Oct 16, 2010)

You are right, someone did a fabulous cleaning job.  You can look at the demarcation lines between the highlights on the bottle and the shaded parts  and see that the original rough surface is still there.  

 Who did the cleaning?


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## suzanne (Oct 16, 2010)

If everyone is voting on wether it looks better cleaned or not I couldn't decide.  If it was my bottle I would just get rid of the damage that detracted from the bottles appearance or didn't enhance it.


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## div2roty (Oct 16, 2010)

This is perhaps the enduring debate for bottle collectors, to tumble or not to tumble.  Some love the bottles real shiney, some completely as found and others reside in the middle.  

 I find it hard to always tell the extent of tumbling from pictures.  In general I hate the over tumbled, slick bottles that will slip right through your fingers.  This bottle looks pretty good, but it also looked pretty good before too.  

 Sometimes I'll lightly tumble only the inside and see how that looks before doing anything else.  

 As far as selling goes, an untumbled bottle can always be tumbled after its sold if thats what the new owner wants.  Sadly, a tumbled bottle can't be untumbled if thats what the new owner wants.  

 Just my two cents, sorry no refunds.


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## CanYaDigIt (Oct 16, 2010)

> Aaron,
> There were two of us on this dig, hence a split. I really don't collect flasks, but I do keep some of them I have dug. You're right, if I had dug it on my own, it would have stayed with me, soap and water cleaned, as it was. None of the hutches in my collection have been tumbled and very few druggists.
> Bottom line, Tom and I couldn't some up with a value we were comfortable with ( some flasks have been going nuts) and what we kinda half-hazardly guessed at, neither of us wanted to or could afford to buy the other out.
> This flask has no orange peel effect of slickness that is referred to here. It is one of the best cleanings I have ever laid eyes on.
> Bill


 
 Well that's a good reason I suppose.  What else came out of the pit?  Good thing you guys divide up the spoils the way you do or someone would have been bummin.  How would you have felt if you were digging with the ol "keep what you find" rule and your digging partner found it, or visa versa?  That would SUCK!!!!!  I have heard of diggers having a "mutual" collection, but I don't know how much I would dig that either.  Is that the best bottle you guys have dug, together or alone?  Sure is pretty.  Hope you guys get top dollar for it, especially if it's 1 of 2 known in that color, or unique in that color.  Congrats again.


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## Oldtimer (Oct 16, 2010)

My $.02...

 If I was keeping it, I'd leave it alone.
 Selling in a big international auction, I'd have it cleaned pro like you see.
 Either way, gorgeous.


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## idigjars (Oct 18, 2010)

Nice looking bottle.  I hope you two make out really good in John Pastor's auction.  He is a great guy.  Good luck and Best regards.  Thanks for sharing the pics with us.  Paul


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## druggistnut (Oct 18, 2010)

Suzanne-- A fellow in the Flint bottle Club did it. He cleaned bottles for years, mainly pontiled inks and he did this mainly as a favor to me. He also put some new tips on two of my probes. 
 He did such a great job, I gave him an 1800's oak showcase that came out of an old hardware store in Detroit. I only had $125.00 in to it, so we both ended up happy.

 Aaron-- This pit was the site of a Sanitarium. We got four or five mineral waters out of the hole, all damaged except a very rare Mt Clemens quart (see pic). The rest of the bottles were all common.  We haven't dug anything else _together_ that equals this flask in possible value, but we have dug some terrific Michigan bottles that I value highly in my collection.
 Bill


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## sandchip (Oct 18, 2010)

Mercy, that's a fine bottle.


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## baltbottles (Oct 19, 2010)

Bill,

 What do you think the value is on the flask?

 Chris


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## druggistnut (Oct 20, 2010)

Chris,
 I'll PM you.
 Bill


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## petepal (Oct 24, 2010)

I like the hand cleaned version but what do I know..To me the professionaly cleaned one looks like it was made in China.


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 25, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  sandchip
> 
> I'm a mint bug if there ever was one, but I gotta say it did look better before cleaning.Â  It's still a beautiful bottle, man, but it just seemed older and more primitive, especially with the field and trees in the background.Â  The top looked better and the embossing looked more defined.Â  Not to say that the thought never crossed my mind, but I wouldn't clean this one for all the money in the world.


 
 I love that bottle man.it looks good and SOLID! []


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## madman (Oct 25, 2010)

i just wish i could dig a bottle like that! excelent find! hope it goes big!


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 25, 2010)

This could easily be a new thread. To tumble or not to tumble. 
 I've had 2 bottles tumbled because I thought they would sell for more. I have since changed my mind and kept them. I now wish I left them as dug. Oh well.


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## Topusmc (Nov 16, 2010)

BLUF: If you gonna keep it on your shelf, don't matter if you clean it up or nor, if you are gonna sell it, you better clean it to get the best $$$. Folks don't pay max dollars for a sick bottle. 

 BLUF= Bottom Line Up Front.  Little military speak slipping out...

 I like mine clean, bright and shiny.  I like to buy those sick bitters and sodas for a fraction of what they cost mint, spend $15 bucks getting them tumbled and see that my investment has tripped or more in value.  The best part is that I usually trade a bottle or two to my cleaner as his fee, helps me and also helps him as I he cleans the ones I trade him and makes a good deal more than a normal bottle cleaning fee.


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## Lordbud (Nov 17, 2010)

I collect bottles because I enjoy local history and history in general. I think this country was some kind of place when our citizens made things by hand and were able to live on the wages they made with their own abilities of craftsmanship. I understand that a cleaned bottle will bring more money at auction. If you like making money off of your hobby then that's a win-win for you: doing something you love and you're adding some dollars to your income. I don't know what any of my bottles will bring after I'm gone and one of my children receives them via my will. I sold all my tumbled bottles a few years ago on ebay and damn they did bring a whole lot more than I paid for them back in the day. Until I find an upgrade that's attic mint or basement-never-buried or "found in the wall space" of an old house example of any of my bottles I'm happy to keep them in original state. An altered/cleaned coin, stamp or comic book never brings as much money as an original example of the same item in mint condition. Why collectors of antique bottles are willing to accept the exact opposite I don't think I understand. But to each his own. Tumble, clean and alter history all you want if that is your preference.


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## Dansalata (Nov 17, 2010)

i agree, to each their own!!!


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## RICKJJ59W (Nov 17, 2010)

Naaaaa keep it a little dirty.It was in the dark dirty hole for over 100+ years,it might feel strange being all shiny a clean.[]
   "keep the history on it"


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## justanolddigger (Nov 24, 2010)

> An altered/cleaned coin, stamp or comic book never brings as much money as an original example of the same item in mint condition


 but a properly cleaned coin will bring much more than that same coin in lousy condition. I also hate comparing hobbies, you can't handle or touch any of the above without destroying the value, is that is what is next for the bottle purists also??
 Bill


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## rraack (Dec 4, 2010)

Wow, that looks like a nice flask and it appears to have cleaned up nicely! At auction I do not believe there is any question that a clean, ' perfect looking bottle (like the flask) is going to command a higher price than a bottle that has been significantly altered by the action of minerals. On the other hand I have seen some very intriguing, dug bottles, and I can understand why some collectors, especially those who have experience digging prefer them as found, because it is now apart of that bottle's history, as Tim stated. One of the things that attracts me to old glass is the unique transparent and refractive properties, which are quite distinct from any new glass (within the past 100+ years). Personally, I try to avoid purchasing pro-cleaned bottles anymore, though it is harder to find really fine untouched specimens. I have passed on many bottles simply because of minor condition issues. I guess the reason is their resale value, as I do intend to sell all my bottles some day and take a nice vacation with my wife.


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## andy volkerts (Jan 21, 2011)

I think your bottle would have come out better if it had only been tumbled for two or two and a half weeks instead of the full three. A bottle that is being tumbled should be checked on at least once a week or even better yet every four days. I know it is a lot of work to do that, but, once it has been over tumbled there is no going back.....Andy


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## druggistnut (Jan 21, 2011)

Andy,
 He did check the bottle a couple of times a week, turned the cannister, etc..
 He also has fins in his tubes which prevent the typical circular motion. I don't have them in my tubes and I had never heard of them before.
_ I could watch the action through the clear PVC and it was an agitating action, not circular._
 The plastic beads caused NO discernable wear.
 John Pastor will have this flask with him for the next few months, if anyone wants to see it in person.
 Bill


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## petepal (Jan 22, 2011)

Not all bottles should be professionaly cleaned.  Here is an example


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## justanolddigger (Jan 22, 2011)

I totally disagree, I think it looks great. The bottle was going to be sold. It would have brought less than 1/2 it's value before it was cleaned, it well do very well now. If it had been sold cheap dirty, I am sure the new owner would have had it cleaned,I know I would have. Bill


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## appliedlips (Jan 22, 2011)

I'd agree, to pay $15 or more to clean the pictured bottle would be a waste. I think Bill's bottle looks better now, however. Are you going to sell that thing or not, Bill?[]

 At what price level, do you and your partners sell and split?




> ORIGINAL:  petepal
> 
> Not all bottles should be professionaly cleaned.Â  Here is an example


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## druggistnut (Jan 23, 2011)

> Are you going to sell that thing or not, Bill?[]
> 
> At what price level, do you and your partners sell and split?


 
 Yes, Doug. We're going to have John Pastor do it.

 Well, we have sold and split bottles ranging from 200.00 to 1,000. I recently bought Tom out of a bottle (gave him 500.00) and hope to get a couple bottles in trade for it. It depends if one of us collects a certain thing. We always cut each other some slack, if it is something we dug and one of us collects, though.
 For example, Tom dug a very rare beer last summer and Brian was able to give Tom a couple hundred for it, where Tom might have gotten another 2-300 for it. We know it comes around, for each of us.
 I'll post the auction of the flask, when it comes up. We hope it comes even partially near what we have been told it is worth. Crossing our fingers, yanno?
 Bill


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## splante (Feb 19, 2011)

I have to agree with burriedtreasuretime, the tumbled bottle just dosnt look right for such an old bottle. It actually by the picture ,looks ruined to me. clean section then a streaky section right near the eagle. unless it just the picture. ok you can direct some of those tomatoes  at me now. I know its not antique furniture but if you screw with the original finish you decrese the value





> ORIGINAL:  buriedtreasuretime
> 
> This is a beautiful piece but why do we have to make these amazing pieces of history look like they have no history.  Yes I know that we love our shiny bottles but maybe that should be those that are found under houses or in attics or towers or ash dumps not affected by water or content stain. I remember as a boy at just the thrill of finding these beautiful things covered in muck and then washed off they have that wonderful hazy softness of being buried 140+ years.  I own two of these flasks in the pale aqua, a large and a small and I bought them on EBAY and they are tumbled to death and so they look so "new".  This wonderful green flask seemed to have such a great overall softness to it before anything was done. I hope that we dont do that to everything we unearth.  But that is just my thought, you will probably throw tomatoes at me now!  I just had to say it... Tim


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## splante (Feb 19, 2011)

The diffrence i feel is if you clean a coin as a bottle with soap , water,brushes ect thats one thing if you polish a coin and are honest when you try to sell it good luck, if you tumble a bottle you are removing layers of the original finish and i feel it is no longer original,and if you disclose that you tumbled the bottle when you sell it I guessing you will turn off a lot of buyers.again just my opinion it 





> ORIGINAL:  justanolddigger
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## justanolddigger (Feb 20, 2011)

you are dead wrong on both counts of cleaning. If you take a brush or soap to a coin, it has been cleaned. They do not tumble coins. ANY cleaning of a coin is unacceptable. Just as you tried to point to different levels of cleaning coins, that is exactly what tumbling a botte can do also. To just clean a bottle with polish DOES NOT remove any layers of glass or touch the embossing in any way, it is doing just what it says, cleaning. The next level is when you start to use cutters, that does remove layers of glass. A bottle can be overtumbled, where it is easily visible and slick, that is what turns most people off, but a properly cleaned bottle is hard to discern from the real deal, don't throw all cleaning out because some don't know the proper techniques.


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## splante (Feb 20, 2011)

point well taken on the coins, I would never atempt to clean a coin was trying to use it to make a point,but have seen coins tumbled in crushed walnut shells.the coin is super shiny but you can see the wear and it is obivious. I still feel there is a diffrence from cleaning a bottle to remove the layers of dirt with whatever,compared to being in a tumbler with copper or shot for weeks which definatly removes glass. I guess I should of left my examples as to tumble or not  to tumble and not thrown in the cleaning examples


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## splante (Feb 20, 2011)

interesting poll on another thread resuts as of this AM
 , only 2% in it for the money and 2% want clean and shiny bottles no matter how old. Majority in it for the history aspects


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## bottlekid76 (Feb 20, 2011)

Isn't it great how our views are so different?! Both sides of it have great points. Personally for me, I like flasks that are clean. Which I think Matt mentioned also. A light tumble usually is well responded to. I think it looks nice. Best of luck with your auction.

 ~Tim


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## druggistnut (May 18, 2011)

*auction update*

The flask is now shown in the preview link on www.americanglassgallery.com
 It is in the second row, last item to the right.
 Personally, it looks to have too much light reflected off it, and it seems to wash the color/definition out of the flask. Hopefully, the rest of the pictures John took are more representative of this wonderful piece.
 The auction begins June 1st, I have my fingers crossed.
 Bill


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## epackage (May 18, 2011)

*RE: auction update*

I'll stick with my original thought that the bottle looked better before tumbling, but i hope you get alot of cash for it.

 I also see an AC Evans, I guess the Wilmington Boys are gonna sell at least one, it has been tumbled clean too I see.


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## druggistnut (Jun 2, 2011)

*RE: rare 1/2 pint double eagle at auction*

The flask is item # 22 in John's auction www.americanglassgallery.com
 John DID change the initial picture and added another, next to an aqua flask, so that really helped. You still can't make out the embossing very well, but it does have a starting bid, which is a big relief.
 I think the writeup he did, is outstanding.
 John has the flask with him at the Saratoga show, at this time.
 Bill


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## downeastdigger (Jun 2, 2011)

*RE: rare 1/2 pint double eagle at auction*

I vote for the tumble, as long as it isn't over tumbled. If you can "feel" that it was tumbled, that devalues it for me.  I like them lightly tumbled, lightly enough to keep the pontil sharp, and keep any light scratches, or base wear.
 Great bottle!


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## druggistnut (Jun 16, 2011)

Well, In one way, I'm a bit disappointed, as the flask only finished at $950.00,  but on the other hand, it only cost the sweat off our backs and a tumbling deal, so i guess I should be happy. -grin-
 It just goes to show you, a bottle can be extremely rare, but without some type of local appeal, wild color or shape, it can flounder.
 I sure hope my bitters does much better.
 Bill


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## druggistnut (Jun 17, 2011)

A little better- After call backs, it went up to $1100.00.
 Bill


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## justanolddigger (Jun 17, 2011)

Any bump in price is a good thing. I really appreciate a lighter see through color like your flask, a very nice hue with a definite color. I do think a lot of flask collectors are looking for a deeper color, and I think that it hurt the final price. A very nice flask to dig.
 Bill


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