# ATTENTION! FORUM MEMBER squirtbob ~ EARLY SQUIRT BOTTLING NEWSPAPER ADS



## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2014)

Hey, squirtbob

Long time no see. I hope all is well in Squirtland.

Note: I intended to post this on the thread I started back in September of 2012 where we discussed Citrus Club and early Squirt bottlers, but I could not see where it was possible to reply to that thread. Maybe older threads are locked down, I'm not sure. Anyway, I figured my only option was to start a new thread and hope you would eventually see it. Here's the link to the original thread for those who might like to read through the 21 pages and 400 individual replies.

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/ANOTHER-quotNEWquot-FREE-ACL-BOOK-CONTEST-m548546.aspx

(By the way, the offer for the free acl book no longer stands - the statute of limitations ran out on that some time ago - I no longer have a spare copy of the book).  

~ * ~    

I did an extensive search through some newspaper archives to see what I could find regarding Citrus Club and early Squirt bottlers. I searched a wide array of different newspapers, including several from the Phoenix, Arizona area. I did not find a single listing for Citrus Club, which leads me to suspect (as discussed previously) that it was a very short-lived product and possibly only available as an experimental fountain drink.

But the good news is that I found the following regarding early Squirt bottlers. The ads shown below are the earliest I could find and the first one pictured might very well be the earliest ever published in a newspaper. Notice that it appeared in the Classified section under the heading of "Miscellaneous." The second ad pictured is by the same bottling company. Notice where it says, "Exclusive Bottlers of Squirt." If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure the word "Exclusive" means they were the only one bottling it at the time and possibly were the first bottler ever. The third ad is close on the heels of the first two date-wise, but is a different bottler from a different town. All things considered, these two bottlers could very well have been the first to bottle Squirt, but no indication from the ads whether the bottles were acls or had paper labels.

Hopefully the ads will assist you in your search for super-early Squirt bottles.

The ads are from ...

1.  Manitowoc Herald-Times ~ Manitowoc, Wisconsin ~ April 25, *1938*.
      (Manitowoc Bottling Works)

2.  Manitowoc Herald-Time ~ Manitowoc, Wisconsin ~ June 16, *1938*
     (Manitowoc Bottling Works)

3.  The Post-Crescent ~ Appleton, Wisconsin ~ August 9, *1938*
      (Twin City Beverages)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2014)

P.S. Regarding "Citrus Club" ... I forgot about this ad that was posted by member celerycola on Page 18 - Reply #354 of the original thread. So I stand corrected about Citrus Club only being a fountain drink. Ad Dated:  August 21, 1936


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2014)

I haven't been able to find a picture of a 1938 Manitowoc Bottling Works Squirt bottle, but I did find the following which is a good indication that a 1938 bottle does exist. Here's the description that accompanied the picture ... "This auction is for one of several great vintage 1930s movie slides that were used in a movie theater. The slide would be shown in between movies and such as advertisements. They were made to fit into special projectors and this one was made by the Kansas City Slide Company. This slide advertises Squirt which was bottled by the Manitowoc Bottling Works."


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2014)

I forgot to point out that "Twin City Beverages / Twin City Bottling Company" was located in ... *Menasha, Wisconsin* I looked around but so far have not found a 1938 Squirt bottle by them, nor any from other dates. Menasha and Manitowoc are about 75 miles apart.


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## squirtbob (Apr 29, 2014)

Hello again Sodapopbob,No question about it you are a bottle super sleueth.  The dates with the ads help to pinpoint the earliest appearance of squirt. As you know co-founder Herb Bishop had the midwestern headquarters in Milwaukee, so its not surprising to see bottlers in Wisconsin. The April 1938 ad date is very early ...good find.  I know for sure that early bottles prior to 1940 appeared in NJ, IL, PA and CA.  Perhaps there are more. I now know of one confirmed 1938 bottle, not owned by me.  I have one from either 1938 or 1939 that looks like the 1938 bottle. The earliest bottles do not mention the ingredients either on the back of the bottle or the cap.  I've posted some pictures so that others can see some of the subtle differences in bottle advertising for the early years. Squirt in cursive writing was 1938-1947. At that point the word SQUIRT appeared in all bold caps. 1n 1958 the twisty bottles first appeared.  I'm posting a picture of an early Squirt delivery truck.  Can you identify the make and model?  **Just when I thought I knew how to insert a picture they have changed the method ...nothing stays the same...guess my age is telling on me.**  I'll try to figure it out and post some helpful pictures.


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## squirtbob (Apr 29, 2014)




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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2014)

squirtbob emailed me some pictures to post for him and this is one of them. He didn't include any specifics about it other than he believes the delivery might be a 1938 model, especially because of the slogan "A New Taste Sensation." The second picture is one I found for comparison and is a 1938 Reo. They look similar to me, but neither squirtbob or myself are car experts, so we are not certain about the date of the Squirt van. I also did a brief search on Wayne Kissack Distributor but haven't found a Squrit connection for him yet, although I did discover that he operated in Chicago Heights, Illinois in the 1930s and 1940s. That's one cool Squirt delivery van and might be one of the first.


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## squirtbob (Apr 29, 2014)

Thanks for posting the truck picture Bob. The others that I forwarded will give everyone a sense of the bottle  advertising evolution through its first ten years 1938-1947 (squirt in cursive) and 2nd 10 years 1948-1957. I also included one twisty bottle which dates to the next change in 1958. Although the formula for squirt has changed over the years it's still one of my favorites.  Please post the other picture when convenient for you. Thanks.


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## squirtbob (Apr 30, 2014)

Hopefully these pictures will post.


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## squirtbob (Apr 30, 2014)

This post should show the back of the bottles from 1939-1947. Notice the change in advertising.  In the mid 40's the contents were moved from the back to the cap.


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## squirtbob (Apr 30, 2014)

This post shows the back of the earliest bottle. It corresponds to the black script bottle on the left side of the first picture and was also found on the earliest 1939 red script bottle. No evidence of contents are shown anywhere on the bottle or the cap, which was likely blue. Notice that it's "different" which is in line with it being a new drink.  Also it mentions how it can be used as "a drink a mixer". That market concept became prominent in late 1939 and into 1940.


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## squirtbob (Apr 30, 2014)

This post shows the changes made to the front and back of the bottles when the script was changed to ALL CAPS. The adversting on the back during this period (1948-57) changed three times but each included Lil Squirt Boy. The twisty bottle was begun in 1958.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 30, 2014)

Bob

Great pics. Thanks for sharing them.

If the first 1938 Squirt bottle had a paper label, it's probably going to be a tough one to find. In connection with this, I am trying to determine ...

1.  Exactly where in Wisconsin Herb Bishop's cheese distribution operation was located?

2.  If the Manitowoc and Menasha bottlers were the first to bottle Squirt, why were those
     locations selected over other bottlers?

3.  Is there a connection between Manitowoc, Menasha, and Herb Bishop?

Reminder:  The June 16, 1938 Manitowoc Herald-Times advertisement was cheese related.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 30, 2014)

P.S. Bob Do you have or ever seen any Squirt bottles from either Manitowoc or Menasha?


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## squirtbob (Apr 30, 2014)

Bob, These are the ones I have from Wisconsin and bottle date.Milwaukee 1944, Racine, 1945, Wausau 1946, Madison 1946, Eau Claire 1947, and Hurley 1951. I've never seen one from Manitowoc or Menasha. By the way I have about 30 states plus Mexico and Canada.  If anyone is interested in trading/selling send me a note.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

Regarding my attempt to track down Herb Bishop's cheese distribution location and a possible connection to Manitowoc and Menasha, Wisconsin, I had to go back to the original thread and retrieve this link to a newspaper article where it states ...

"The *Milwaukee *cheese business had palled for young Herbert S. Business ..." 

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=QwUtAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LtQFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6641,1809528&dq=squirt+company+1938&hl=en

Even though this places Bishop in the Milwaukee area during the early days of Squirt, I have yet to find just how widespread his cheese operation was and whether it included the entire state or just the Milwaukee area.

The attached Wisconsin map is dated 1938 and shows the proximity of the three towns in question, which I underlined accordingly ...

Menasha = Red
Manitowoc = Green
Milwaukee = Yellow

Manitowoc is about 100 miles north of Milwaukee.
Menasha is about 50 miles west of Manitowoc.

But I still don't know why Manitowoc and Menasha were chosen as locations for two of the first bottlers of Squirt. At this juncture I can only speculate the reasons and hope to find something more specific with future searches.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

This is the only picture of Herb Bishop I have been able to find or am aware of. Unfortunately, it is not very clear and my attempts to lighten and enhance it failed. From ... Estherville Daily News ~ Estherville, Iowa ~ November 19, 1962


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

P.S. I'm still not sure if Bishop's middle initial is B or S - I have seen it both ways throughout my searches.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

I'm doing some research on the Twin City Bottling Company in Menasha, which I posted the ad for earlier, and I just wanted to establish the following for a future reference ...


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neenah,_Wisconsin

 "Neenah is sometimes referred to as a twin city of the City of Menasha, " 

~ * ~

Initially I thought Appleton was Menasha's twin city because that's where the newspaper ad came from.

( More about this later )


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

I haven't connected all of the dots/dates on this yet, but it's starting to look as if ... Twin City Beverages / Twin City Bottling ... in Menasha, Wisconsin stopped bottling Squirt somewhere along the line. I have come across several ads like the one below and all of them lead me to believe that Squirt was not a part of their product line in later years. It's hard to imagine if Squirt was being bottled by them at the time that it would not be included in this ad from ... The Post-Crescent ~ Appleton, Wisconsin ~ March 8, 1960 ( Which suggest that a Squirt bottle from Menasha might be even rarer than I first thought )


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

Here's another "Just for the record" which shows a connection between Menasha and Neenah ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Old-Vintage-Twin-City-Bottling-Co-Wooden-Bottle-Crate-Box-Soda-Neenah-Menasha-WI-/380827590107?nma=true&si=AwbLD33sRm2J6102AxJjJeTDN4c%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

This should confirm the Menasha / Neenah twin city connection ... ( Now all I have to do is find one of their Squirt bottles, which I suspect ain't gonna be easy )  http://menashabook.blogspot.com/2012/09/twin-city-beverages.html


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## 2find4me (May 1, 2014)

Thought you all could help this member out:https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/What-to-do-with-Squirt-Bottles-m649254.aspx


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

According to the 2002 Third Edition book "Collecting Applied Color Label Soda Bottles," the Twin City Beverages bottle with the map of Menasha and Neenah is considered VR = Very Rare. But I'm not sure of it's ranking now.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

I finally figured out why the Twin City Beverages ads for Menasha/Neenah don't list them as a Squirt bottler after about 1938 - it's because around 1939-1940 someone started a Squirt Bottling Company in Appleton, which is about five miles north of Menasha/Neenah. I haven't even looked for a Appleton Squirt bottle yet but intend to. If I am correct in my research findings as I believe I am, then a 1938 Menasha/Neenah Squirt bottle is getting rarer and rarer by the minute! From ... The Post-Crescent ~ Appleton, Wisconsin ~ September 11, *1940*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

I wasn't able to find a Squirt bottle from Appleton, Wisconsin, but I did find this ... (Date unknown)


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2014)

P.S. I'm putting the Appleton Squirt bottles on the back burner for the time being and continuing my search for a ... *1938 Twin City Bottling Company Squirt bottle *( or any related items and go-with's )


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 2, 2014)

I added (underlined) Neehah and Appleton to the Wisconsin map to help keep things in perspective. The towns of Menasha, Appleton and Neehah are so close, they are almost one berg, with Appleton being the largest of the three.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 2, 2014)

Before continuing my search for those elusive 1938 Squirt bottles from Menasha/Neehah and Manitowoc, I wanted to point out that the Squirt Bottling Company that was established in Appleton in 1940, ceased it's soft drink operation around 1963 and became a beer distributor. Around 1964, the Squirt franchise was relocated to the town of Little Chute, which is about five miles northeast of Appleton. It then became know as the "Little Chute Squirt Bottling Company." Prior to taking on the Squirt franchise, the facility was simply called "The Little Chute Bottling Company" and had their own line of beverages. 1.  19622.  19633.  1964


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 2, 2014)

Here's that dang Wisconsin map again - but this time I placed a red arrow showing the location of Little Chute. (The name "Little Chute" originated from the Dam/Lock/Portage along the Fox River).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Chute,_Wisconsin


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## squirtbob (May 2, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Bob
> 
> Great pics. Thanks for sharing them.
> 
> ...


I'm not convinced that the first  7 oz. squirt bottles had paper labels.  I have seen the paper labels advertised and I have one but they are always for larger bottles ...perhaps?? marketed that way to be used as a mixer.  One was sold recently on the bay but it was an obvious fake ... a "perfect" label on a green scratched up wrong date bottle. Of course it sold but not many ventured to bid.  I'd bet that the first acl bottle with black script and blue caps lasted only a very short time ...one year or less. You never see a used blue cap and they are very plain and not too appealing. They gave way to red script on the bottle over the splash and the caps looked very similar.  The advertising dept. got with it real quick.


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## squirtbob (May 2, 2014)

The squirt crates shown here are very early. I would say the black script crate is from the late 30's.  It does not advertise for any bottler and it has shallow cardboard separaters.   The upper crate changes the lettering to red but still incorporates the blue color and is marketed [attachment=squirtcrates.jpg] [attachment=squirtcrates.jpg] as "the perfect mixer", very much in line with early advertising.


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## squirtbob (May 2, 2014)

The bottles in this picture I call the west coast see-through wartime bottles.  All of the red pigment is gone and the yellow is much lighter than normal, in some cases almost white, and the script is see-through on the splash and missing most of the time on the chest.  I have about 12 of these and they were all manufactured at the Owens-Illinois plant (23) in Los Angeles.  The earliest date is 1943 and the latest is 1946. They all list a bottler on the back and all are from the western states, CA, OR, WA, MT, NV, ID.  If anyone has something different from this type bottle, please let us know.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 2, 2014)

Bob If you have a picture of "the first acl bottle with black script and blue caps" could you please share it with us. I have pictures of a lot of Squirt bottles in my photo files, but not one with *black* script. Thanks


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## squirtbob (May 2, 2014)

Earliest squirt bottle 1938/9


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 2, 2014)

Bob If we have discussed this before I've forgotten - so please bare with me. But you indicated the black script bottle is dated 1938-1939. It that date-range because you can't make out the marks - or that it's not marked and you are dating it by the style? And does it have a city/state? Please tell us as much as you can about it. Thanks


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## squirtbob (May 3, 2014)

My black script squirt was made at the OI plant (3) WVA and the bottler was in Joliet, Il. The date marking on the bottom is either a slightly misshapen 8 or a 9 with the loop closed on the bottom done when the bottle was being formed.  With regards to the other bottle I don't feel at liberty to give specific detail but this much I can say. It was made at a different OI plant and the date mark is without question an 8 for 38. I can also say that I have seen the first style back of the bottle where the drink is touted as "Its delicious, Its different" on a 1939 bottle but with the script changed on the front to red.  This is another indicator that the marketing department dumped the black script relatively quickly. Further, I have and have seen other 1939 dated bottles, made by at least 3 different manufacturers that list bottlers outside the midwest.  The are all red script and have the advertising changed on the  back that prominently notes the drink to be "a drink, a mixer" and shows the contents for the first time.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2014)

Bob

Thanks for the info on the black script bottle. Unfortunately, the archives I'm subscribed to does not include any newspapers from Joliet, so I did a search for anything and everything I could find regarding Squirt nationwide during *1939*. Only three listings came up for that year, which were bottlers in ...

1. Manitowoc, Wisconsin
2. Algona, Iowa
3. Alton, Illinois

As I indicated earlier, Twin City Bottling in Menasha/Neehah apparently only bottled Squirt for a single year in 1938 because there is nothing showing them bottling it in 1939 or later, although they were still in operation at the time but bottling other brands such as "Tasty."  The Appleton Squirt ads do not start to appear until 1940.

If they can be found, I think you best bet for at least two of the first Squirt bottlers are those from Manitowoc and Menasha/Neehah.

The articles are as follows ...

1.  Kossuth County Advance ~ Algona, Iowa ~ April 4, 1939
2.  Alton Evening Telegraph ~ Alton, Illinois ~ May 8, 1939

3.  Post-Crescent ~ Appleton, Wisconsin ~ May 12, 1937
     I'm including this one because it shows when Twin City Bottling was incorporated.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2014)

By the way ... Once you get to 1940-1941, the newspapers explode with Squirt ads. But because my main focus on this thread is with 1938 Squirt bottles only, I don't feel it's necessary to bombard things with a never-ending list of Squirt advertisements from 1940 and beyond.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2014)

However ... I thought this article fit into the scheme of things because it involves the year 1939. I guess you could call it a "wanna-be" 1939 Squirt bottler ... The Arizona Independent-Republic ~ Phoenix, Arizona ~ October 15, 1940 (Notice that Herbert Bishop's middle initial is shown as W. Now we have three different initials B-S-W) ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2014)

Bob Regarding one of the wooden crates you posted a picture of ... Compare the wording on the crate to the wording in this ad from ... The Manitowoc Herald-Times ~ Manitowoc, Wisconsin ~ September 2, *1938* 1.  Crate2.  Ad


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2014)

P.S. Bob I'm trying my best to make sense of the bottle timeline and wondering about your comments on Page 1 Post #11 where you said ... " Also it mentions how it can be used as "a drink a mixer". That market concept became prominent in late 1939 and into 1940." So does the 1938 article where it uses the words "Refresher - Mixer -  Alkalizer" change anything and possibly date the use of the word "Mixer" earlier than 1939?  Or am I confused, as usual, as to what year the word "Mixer" was first introduced?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2014)

squirtbob said:
			
		

> This post shows the back of the earliest bottle. It corresponds to the black script bottle on the left side of the first picture and was also found on the earliest 1939 red script bottle. No evidence of contents are shown anywhere on the bottle or the cap, which was likely blue. Notice that it's "different" which is in line with it being a new drink.  Also it mentions how it can be used as "a drink a mixer". That market concept became prominent in late 1939 and into 1940.



Bob Here's your entire quote ... I realize now that you did say the word "Mixer" was on the back of the black-script bottle which you believe might be a 1938 bottle. So I guess I just answered my own question (I think) and that the word "Mixer" was used right from the get-go in 1938.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2014)

Hey, Bob

Well, it wasn't a total bust. I may not have found you any 1938 Squirt bottles, but at least you have a couple of more locations to look for, two of which might even be the first Squirt bottlers in the country. Hopefully by the time this topic pops up again you will be telling us that you found one each of the Manitowoc and Menasha bottles. I'm confident they are out there somewhere but it might take some scrounging around to locate them. But if anybody can do it, I'm sure you can.

So this pretty much wraps things up for me. I have searched the newspaper archives from one end to another, plus some Google searches, and it doesn't appear I'm going to find anything else from 1938 that I haven't already posted. But if I do find anything else, I will be sure and post it on this thread, which you should get a notification about. Please do the same if you find anything, especially if its one of those elusive, hard to find and extremely rare 1938 Squirt bottles.

Last but not least, I thought you would enjoy a couple of more ads from *1939*.

From ...

1.  Alton Evening Telegraph ~ Alton, Illinois ~ February 9, 1939
2.  The Kokomo Tribune ~ Kokomo, Indiana ~ December 29, 1939


Later, alligator

Bob


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## CreekWalker (May 3, 2014)

As usual, excellent information you two! Thanks!


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 4, 2014)

CreekWalker Thanks for the acknowledgement - mucho appreciated. ~ * ~  
I almost forgot about Squirt's mascot, "Little Squirt," and thought this discussion would not be complete without at least a brief mention of him.

According to the U.S. Patent Office document pictured below, we see ...

1.  Application ~ October 31, 1941 ~ Serial No. 448,308

and ...

2.  The trade-mark has been used continuously and applied to goods in the applicant's business since October 14, 1941.

This clearly indicates October 14, 1941 as being the earliest date we are likely to find Little Squirt's first appearance. And when we look at the Squirt magazine ads on Gono.com that depict Little Squirt, we see one from 1941 that shows ...

Reg. Pend. U.S. Pat. Off.   /  Registration Pending U.S. Patent Office 

http://www.gono.com/museum2003/museum%20collect%20info/squirt/squirt.htm

Because of the word "Pending" in the magazine ad, I don't argue that it appeared sometime between October 14, 1941 and December 31, 1941.

However, I was unable to find a single newspaper ad/article from 1941 that depicted Little Squirt. The earliest one I could find for him was dated January 16, 1942. I even looked to see if I could find some kind of official introduction article about him, but never did come across one. He simply shows up out of nowhere in January of 1942 and then dominates almost every Squirt ad from then on. The newspaper ads depicting Little Squirt start slow at first but by mid-spring of 1942 they show up in force and reach a peak in almost every newspaper in the country by the summer of 1942.

The "Like Grapefruit? You'll Love Squirt" ads, such as the one pictured on the following page, were the most popular and most used ads in 1942 nationwide. There were variations of the ad but they always used the same "Like Grapefruit?" heading.



1.  Trade-Mark Application ~ 1941

2.  Magazine Ad ~ Gono.com ~ 1941

3.  Altoona Tribune ~ Altoona, Pennsylvania ~ January 16, 1942       (Earliest "Little Squirt" ad I could find in a newspaper)


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 4, 2014)

4.  Ironwood Daily Globe ~ Ironwood, Michigan ~ April 14, 1942 This is one variation of the "Like Grapefruit? You'll Love Squirt " ads I spoke of which dominated the newspapers throughout 1942. Many of them, like the one shown here, were almost 1/4 page advertisements.


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## squirtbob (May 4, 2014)

Bob,Once again you've found some great ads.  I noted that the one from Indiana in 1939 mentions that you could "drink it for breakfast".  This actually became a part of the advertising on the back of the bottles in 1941. That's also when they began saying the drink was "tart sweet" and "in the public eye".


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 4, 2014)

Bob Thanks. Here's another ad I think you will enjoy.  
I thought I would include this particular ad because it has some information that wasn't on the similar one I posted earlier.

It's almost identical to the January 16, 1942 ad I posted earlier, and is by the same Squirt distributor, but this one is dated February 13, 1942. Notice the imagery on this one is clearer and just to the right of Little Squirt you can make out the words Trade Mark. No doubt this was also on the January ad but was smudged out. This tells us that sometime between October of 1941, when the Little Squirt trademark was applied for, and January of 1942, the trademark image was finally approved.

I especially like where it says ... "the sparkling fruit drink that's sweeping the country"

Also notice where it says Squirt was in 44 states at the time.  

At the very top is  ....  S - S - S - S - S - S - S - S - S - S - *P* 
Apparently this is the sound made when uncapping a carbonated bottle.

From ...

Altoona Tribune ~ Altoona, Pennsylvania ~ February 13, 1942


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## squirtbob (May 5, 2014)

Bob,  Since you do such great detective work, when you have a chance please see if you can find any early information from these Illinois towns.  Joliet, Peoria and Quincy.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Bob

I looked for the three Illinois towns you asked about but unfortunately the newspaper archives do not include newspapers from any of those locations. I even searched some neighboring town newspapers but did not find anything related to Squirt for Peoria, Joliet, or Quincy, Illinois. The only thing I did find, which I found on Google and you probably already know about, is that Derges Bottling in Peoria, Illinois bottled Squirt at one time.

But the good news is, I found another *1938* Squirt bottler that I somehow missed seeing during my initial searches. The bottler I'm referring to is ...

*Buster Bottling Works ~ Alton, Illinois*

I posted two 1939 ads for this bottler earlier (which I am re-posting here), and at the time thought 1939 was the earliest date when they started bottling Squirt. But then I found the ad below from 1938. Even though two of the ads do not have Buster Bottling Works in the text, I know it was them because of other references I found connecting them to Squirt. Plus, there's no way that there was more than one bottler of Squirt in Alton in late 1938 and early 1939. Somewhere along the line the name Buster Bottling Works became Squirt Bottling Company. The earliest date I could find for the Squirt Bottling Company in Alton is 1950.

1.  The Alton Evening Telegraph ~ Alton, Illinois ~ December 22, *1938*
2.  The Alton Evening Telegraph ~ Alton, Illinois ~ February 9, 1939 
3.  The Alton Evening Telegraph ~ Alton, Illinois ~ May 8, 1939


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

P.S. The earliest newspaper listing I can find for "Buster Bottling Works" in Alton, Illinois is *1929*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

To summarize ... We now have three 1938 Squirt bottles! 1.  Manitowoc, Wisconsin / Manitowoc Bottling Works2.  Menasha, Wisconsin / Twin City Bottling Works3.  Alton, Illinois / Buster Bottling Works


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## squirtbob (May 6, 2014)

More good finds. I'd gladly pay more than 15 cents for 3 of the 1938 bottles.  Surely someone out in this bottle world has one.  Buster Bottling in Alton, Il would be great as my brother worked at the Alton OI plant there for years.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Bob Go to this link for a 195? Directory and type Squirt in the search box. Then click on the GO box and wait for the results.  https://archive.org/details/industrialresour01peor What do you know about Derges Bottling in Peoria, Illinois?  I can't seem to find exactly when they started bottling Squirt.


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## squirtbob (May 6, 2014)

Bob, The following pictures will show you what I know about Derges.  Interesting that the Glenshaw bottle has absolutely nothing on the lip ...but the date indicator "R" is on the bottom ...meaning 1946.  It's probably only a coincidence that the number 45 (close) appears below the number 700.  I have a couple Glenshaw bottles marked like that.  The cap is also marked Derges Bottling Peoria, IL and it would be from the same era.


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## squirtbob (May 6, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Bob Regarding one of the wooden crates you posted a picture of ... Compare the wording on the crate to the wording in this ad from ... The Manitowoc Herald-Times ~ Manitowoc, Wisconsin ~ September 2, *1938* 1.  Crate2.  Ad



Here's one that will test your detective skills.  This box for which you previously found a similar ad has on each side the following "Phone Lebanon 4211" , no city or state is listed.  I'm referring to the crate that has the red and blue print


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Bob I haven't found that exact phone number yet, but the initial indicators point to ... 1.  1940s-1950s2.  Lebanon, Pennsylvania3.  Krim Beverage Company ... and/or ... Ma's Bottling Company


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

No "Lebanon 4211" yet, but still searching - and still leaning toward Lebanon, *Pennsylvania * ~ * ~ 1.  Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ December 18, 1958 I'm not sure if Krim Beverages and Ma's Bottling were one company with two different names or if they are two entirely different companies. This ad is a little confusing.  ~ * ~ 2.  Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ December 28, 1966 I'm not sure when Ma's Bottling first started bottling Squirt, but they won an award in 1966


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

And then there's this guy ... *http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/great-vintage-wooden-squirt-soda-box-lebanon*  He says the box is from Lebanon, Pennsylvania but I think he might be guessing. Especially the part where he says it was made by ... *The Lebanon Bottling Company*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Even though I haven't been able to find the 4211 phone number in a newspaper ad, it's obviously related to Squirt because it's on a Squirt crate. Nor could I find a listing for a "Lebanon Bottling Company" and still believe the guy was guessing about that. Krim and Ma's are the only bottlers of Squirt I can find in Lebanon, Pennsylvania. My best guess at the moment is that the wooden Squirt crate came from ... *Old Fashioned Ma's Bottling Company ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania* The Lebanon newspapers are full of ads that include phone numbers. The one below is obviously not a Squirt ad - I selected it at random to serve as an example how phone numbers are shown in most of the Lebanon ads during the 1940s. Notice that it's about the same as the one on the Squirt crate except for the number.  Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ March 1, 1946


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## squirtbob (May 6, 2014)

The crate is exactly like mine, but it is not mine.  I can tell by the side shots that you posted.  Not that this is conclusive but I bought it from someone in Mechanicsburg PA which is about 50 miles from Lebanon.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Two points to ponder ... 1.  The earliest date I can find for "Old Fashion Ma's Bottling Company" in Lebanon is *1947* 2.  The snippet below shows Ma's phone number as Lebanon 2-8701 - But this was in *1954* Question:  Could 4211 possibly have been Ma's 1940s phone number or did the number belong to some other Squirt bottler in Lebanon? But if some other Squirt bottler, who?   Lebanon Daily News ~ March 15, 1954


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Bob Is it possible to narrow down the *latest *possible year that particular Squirt crate was produced? Or is it an "anywhere between about 1938 and 1955" type of crate?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

P.S. The reason I ask about the latest possible date for the crate is because the earliest connection I can find for Ma's Bottling Company and Squirt is *1952*. Is it possible the crate dates to 1952 or later?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Bob More questions ... We know for certain that Ma's Bottling Company in Lebanon bottled Squirt in the 1950s and 1960s, but why can't I find a picture of a single Squirt bottle from them? Surely 1960s Squirt bottles are not that rare, are they?


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## squirtbob (May 6, 2014)

One would assume that the crate advertising would be somewhat similar to the bottles that they carried. The cursive script style was changed to BOLD CAPS in 1948. Based on that, the colors used and the 4 digit number used for the telephone number, the message "alkalizer, refresher, mixer" for which you found an ad,  I believe that the crate dates to about 1940, possibly 39.  Also as  you move into the 50's I think the crate height became much shorter. (less weight)There is nothing rare about squirt bottles in the 60's.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Bob Thanks for the reminders, they really help. And because of your reminders, I'm now thinking that the Ma's Bottling Company connection with Squirt any earlier than about 1950 just doesn't fit into the scheme of things. There must have been someone else who was bottling Squirt in Lebanon prior to about 1950, but who? I guess I need to dig a little deeper and see if the WorthPoint seller might have been right after all and there was in fact a "Lebanon Bottling Company."


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 6, 2014)

Please don't ask how I missed seeing this earlier, because I don't know. All I know at the moment is that there was a "Lebanon Bottling Company."  I haven't looked for a Squirt connection yet, but intend to. The article had something to do with mercantile license in the state of Pennsylvania in 1940. The complete list included hundreds of names.  From ...  Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ June 21, *1939*


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## squirtbob (May 7, 2014)

Too bad we don't have some Lebanon telephone books from that era.  That might confirm when LBC started and how long 4211 was in use ... it's interesting that you found that in a 1939 ad. I wonder if that was a license application or a renewal.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

Bob

Long story short ...

I used every word combination I could think of in my search for Lebanon, Pennsylvania bottlers and found several from the 1930s and 1940s, which included ...

Acme Bottling
Dangler's Bottling
Kuhn's Bottling
Krim Bottling
Lebanon Bottling
Ma's Bottling


I found phone numbers for every one of these bottlers but no "Phone Lebanon 4211" or anything that even came close.

There are hundreds of ads and articles for bottlers located in Lebanon during this time period, but the absolute first mention of SQUIRT (Soda Pop / Beverage / Drink / Bottler / etc) does not appear until *1952 *and was bottled by "Old Fashion Ma's Bottling Company."

So I don't know what to say other than your Squirt crate might have come from another town named Lebanon in some other state. Either that or else one of the Lebanon bottlers shown above did in fact bottle Squirt but just never advertised it.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

There are 16 cities in the U.S. named Lebanon!

Take your pick ...

http://www.getzipcode.us/en/city-lebanon.php  I realize it was I who came up with Lebanon, Pennsylvania, so I guess I need to go back to the drawing board and search the other 15 cities. I'll start with Wisconsin and go from there. But this time I will only post findings if they include "Phone Lebanon 4211"

I'll be back!  (But it might take me a week) (Lol) []


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

Before I ride off into the sunset on another wild goose chase, I was hoping someone might be able to determine what the phone number is on this notepad?  This is the largest I was able to make it ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

*JACKPOT !!!* *http://www.ebay.ca/itm/vintage-OLD-FASHIONED-MAS-BOTTLING-lebanon-pa-NOTEBOOK-/350987228765*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

Hey, squirtbob Next time please throw me something difficult!  (Lol)  [] However, I still can't find any dates earlier than 1952. But there's gotta be some 1940s dates out there somewhere for when Ma's Bottling Company bottled Squirt in Lebanon, Pennsylvania.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

http://www.bottlebooks.com/carbonated%20beverages/carbonated_beverage_trademarks%201940.htm Word Mark THE KIND THAT MOTHER USED TO MAKE: NONALCOHOLIC, NONCEREAL, MALTLESS BEVERAGES SOLD AS SOFT DRINKS. FIRST USE: 1936. FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1936 Filing Date January 31, 1945 Registration Date July 10, 1945 Owner (REGISTRANT) OLD FASHION MA'S ROOT BEER BOTTLING COMPANY ISAAC ROTHSTEIN AND BARNETT (BARNEY) ROTHSTEIN PARTNERSHIP PENNSYLVANIA 172 SOUTH WASHINGTON STREET WILKES-BARRE PENNSYLVANIA (LAST LISTED OWNER) OLD FASHION, INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF PENNSYLVANIA KANE STREET AND STAFFORD AVENUE SCRANTON PENNSYLVANIA 18505


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

I haven't been able to confirm it yet, but I have seen scant references stating that Ma's Bottling was located in Lebanon as early as 1941. Here's a 1951 Ma's calendar showing the 4211 Lebanon phone number ...  http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/mas-root-beer-pinup-calendar-lebanon-411318767 By the way, the reason I'm finding this stuff now is because I gave up on the newspaper archives and started looking elsewhere.


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## squirtbob (May 7, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> *JACKPOT !!!* *http://www.ebay.ca/itm/vintage-OLD-FASHIONED-MAS-BOTTLING-lebanon-pa-NOTEBOOK-/350987228765*


Nice find. No one on this forum would doubt that you would find something...certainly not me.  I believe that Ma's began in the 30's. Is it possible that Lebanon Bottling, which you already established a connection to the late 30's, changed its name at some point to Ma's Bottling and kept the phone number???  No one would manufacture a crate in the 50's and dredge up old fonts and advertising to pair it with.  I'm pretty confident that the box dates to late 30's -1940. You get an A+ so far but more digging is in order.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

Bob Thanks But don't put all of your eggs in the Lebanon Bottling Company basket!  Everything I have see for them so far involved ... *Beer  []*


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## squirtbob (May 7, 2014)

There's a Ma's Root Beer bottle on Ebay for sale right now that was bottled in Lebanon, PA. That ad says 1944, but it is an OI bottle and picture clearly shows 1948 ....so we are moving in the right direction.  I don't know how to post the link but you'll be able to find it no problem.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

Bob To save links, just place your cursor arrow on the link and then ... 1.  Right click on the link and it will highlight in blue2.  A box will pop up3.  Left click on COPY and it will automatically be saved ( I call this process a "Mouse Trap" )4.  The link will stay in your "Mouse Trap" until you are ready to post it5.  When ready to post, right click again until the box appears, but this time left click on PASTE Easy - Smeasy! Here's the eBay Link for the *1948 *Ma's bottle from Lebanon, PA. ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Mas-Old-Fashion-Root-Beer-Bottle-1944-/281325666733?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41805101ad And a few pics ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

I went back to the newspaper archives and found this snippet from some news briefs that I somehow missed seeing earlier. Because I was focused on finding Squirt related listings, I overlooked some of the listings for Ma's Bottling because at the time the 4211 phone number had not be connected to Ma's Bottling. But now that it is confirmed, we know that it was Ma's who bottled Squirt there. But I still don't know why there are no Squirt ads earlier than 1952. It could be that those particular newspapers weren't available and/or for some reason never got downloaded to the newspaper site. Anyhoo, here's the new earliest listing for Ma's Bottling in Lebanon, Pa.       From ... Lebanon Daily News ~ March 28, *1947*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

squirtbob said:
			
		

> The cursive script style was changed to BOLD CAPS in 1948. Based on that, the colors used and the 4 digit number used for the telephone number, the message "alkalizer, refresher, mixer" for which you found an ad, I believe that the crate dates to about 1940, possibly 39.



Hey, Bob Are we there yet? [] Or do we need to dig deeper into 1939-1940?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

New Clue / New Search ... Guido and John Piergallini Link:  April 23, 1951http://www.bizapedia.com/pa/OLD-FASHION-MAS-BOTTLING-COMPANY-OF-LEBANON-PA.html Article:    March 28, 1947


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 7, 2014)

P.S. It appears that John Piergallini was the manager of Ma's Bottling in 1947 (and possibly earlier) and he and his brother, Guido, bought the company in 1951.


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## squirtbob (May 8, 2014)

Here's another very early squirt crate from Youngstown Ohio. Thinking late 30's.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 8, 2014)

Bob


 I will see what I can find regarding the Youngstown crate later. But first, I need to throw a monkey wrench into the Lebanon Squirt crate discussion. Important note:  The following is based entirely on your expertise in that the Lebanon Squirt crate was produced no later than about 1945. If there is even a slight possibility the Lebanon crate was made any later than about 1945, then it will shoot holes in my findings.  In order to make this as comprehensive as possible, I have prepared the following timeline that will coincide with the accompanying newspaper articles. Please read the articles, compare them to my timeline, and then see if you agree with me in that ... *Your Lebanon Squirt crate came from "Dengler & Sons Bottling Works" and not "Old Fashion Ma's Bottling Company"* Note: Because of time and space limitations, I will not post every newspaper article where I came up with the information for the timeline. I will only post the articles that are of specific interest to help tie things together. *1923-1924 *... Dengler & Son Bottling Works established in Lebanon, Pennsylvania.*1940 *............. John Piergallini located in Hershey, Pa. with meat and grocery business.*1941 *........  John Piergallini working as junior storekeeper for Army Air Corps in Middletown, Pa.*1946 *............  John Piergallini back in Hershey, Pa. with meat and grocery business. *1946 *.....   John Piergallini and brother Guido Piergallini purchase Dengler & Son Bottling Works.*1946 *............  Earliest appearance of "Old Fashion Ma's Bottling Company" in Lebanon, Pa.*1951  *............. John and Guido Piergallini apply for name "Old Fashion Ma's Bottling Company." ~ * ~ If the Squirt crate was produced prior to 1945-1946, then it could not have come from Ma's Bottling because Ma's Bottling wasn't established in Lebanon until 1946. Even though I have not been able to confirm it yet, the 4211 phone number likely belonged to Dengler & Son Bottling Works and then the Piergallini brothers continued using it after they bought the company from the Dengler's in 1946. 1946 is also likely when the name change occurred from Dengler Bottling Works to Ma's Bottling Company, which was officially applied for in 1951. The main monkey wrench here is that I searched but could not find a single reference connecting Dengler & Son to Squirt. The newspaper archives for Lebanon include lots of ads from the 1920s through the 1940s about Dengler & Son Bottling, but none of them mention anything about Squirt.  Question:  Are you 100% certain the Lebanon Squirt crate was made prior to about 1945-1946?   ~ * ~ The articles are as follows ... 1. & 2. (Cropped) Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ March 6, 19673. Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ January 13, 1971


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 8, 2014)

This article is also cropped into two sections. The second column fits directly below the center section of the first one. From ... Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ June 21, 1974


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 8, 2014)

This article shows the two different addresses. The 37 N. Sixteenth address is the same one that's on the black notepad with the 4211 phone number. I'm not certain when they relocated to the 37 N. Sixteenth address.  From ... Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ January 12, 1972


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 8, 2014)

And here's the bottle mentioned in the 1974 article that John Piergallini designed in 1964 ... https://www.google.com/patents/USD203707?dq=bottle+203,707&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kcZrU-fQENSmyASy34KwDA&ved=0CDwQ6AEwAQ


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 8, 2014)

P.S. Bob I will continue to search for a connection between Dengler & Son Bottling and Squirt, but so far it's not looking very promising. The indicators keep pointing to Ma's Bottling around 1946-1947.


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## squirtbob (May 8, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Bob Regarding one of the wooden crates you posted a picture of ... Compare the wording on the crate to the wording in this ad from ... The Manitowoc Herald-Times ~ Manitowoc, Wisconsin ~ September 2, *1938* 1.  Crate2.  Ad


Bob, the ad that you found from Manitowoc, WI advertised squirt as a "refresher, mixer, alkalizer". That ad is from 1938 and it matches exactly with the box.  Having said that I no nothing about what dictated the content of box advertising ...I just don't know why someone would put old advertising on a new box.  But I'm not 100% certain of these things to answer your question but for now I think you're on to something with Dengler Bottling.


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## squirtbob (May 8, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> This article is also cropped into two sections. The second column fits directly below the center section of the first one. From ... Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ June 21, 1974


Did you notice that when Piergallini closed Ma's he was interviewed and said he couldn't drink Ma's any longer and sometime previously they had bottled Moxie and it tasted "dreadful".


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 8, 2014)

Bob

Long story short ...

In *1954 *Ma's Bottling moved from Twelfth & Scull Streets to 37 North Sixteenth Street. Prior to the relocation their phone number was *Lebanon 2-8701*. After moving to Sixteenth Street their phone number was *Lebanon 4211*.

There are two different ads/articles, both from 1954, that show two different addresses and two different phone numbers.

I have a couple of theories as to why their new (1954) phone number is on an older (1939-40) wooden box.

1.  The box is old but the new phone number was added later.
2.  The box isn't as old as we originally thought and was made no earlier than 1954.

Question:  Is there any indication in the color - type - age, or anything else about the paint to suggest that it might have been added about 15 years after the box was made?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 8, 2014)

In other words ... The 4211 phone number did belong to Ma's Bottling until *1954* I'm either confused or ... Goofy


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## squirtbob (May 9, 2014)

That confuses me. It doesn't make sense that you would move forward in time and go from a 5 digit phone number to a 4 digit number. It should be just the opposite.  I'll check the box a little later.  I would think by the 50's boxes were only about half as tall and often had individual built in wood separators or dividers that would allow for 4 - 6 pack cartons. I'll post a picture of a Squirt box that has the 2nd style print ... Bold Caps.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 9, 2014)

I'm confused, too, but how do we explain ... The *4211* phone number being on their *1951* calendar? Especially when the newspaper articles lead me to believe they relocated in *1954*? 1.  1951 Calendar with 4211 phone number2.  Ma's box with phone number 28701 (Date of box unknown but no earlier than 1946)3.  Newspaper article stating the first bottle of Ma's Root Beer was produced on July 1, 1946


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 9, 2014)

I wish I knew when this notepad was made. It could be the best clue of all because it shows the 37 North Sixteenth address as well as the 4211 phone number.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 9, 2014)

P.S. I forgot to mention that the 1941 date on the front of the Ma's Root Beer box is a copyright/trademark date and not necessarily when the box was made.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 9, 2014)

I checked and double checked these addresses, and there doesn't seem to be any question that Ma's Bottling was located on ... *North 12th Street *in *1949 *and *1950* The ads are dated as follows ... 1.  March 25, 19492.  November 21, 1950


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 9, 2014)

I hit a dead-end with this one. It is the absolute earliest mention of Squirt I can find related to Ma's Bottling or any other bottler in Lebanon, Pennsylvania ... From ... Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ August 20, *1952*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 9, 2014)

For squirtbob and/or anyone who has some expertise on the subject ...

Question:

If a bottler had dozens and possibly even hundreds of wood crates, and then the parent company changed a slogan or something about the brand, would the bottlers be required to toss out the older crates and buy new ones? Or would the bottler only be required to replace them as needed when the older crates finally fell apart from continuous use?  

I've never researched or read anything related to this subject and thought others might have some insights.

Thanks


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

Bob

*Good News!*

And you're really going to like this one. Its the first ad I've been able to find that connects the 4211 phone number to 216 N. 12th Street. Remember, 216 N. 12th Street was the earlier address for Ma's Bottling before they relocated to 37 North Sixteenth Street. And even though the ad does not indicate who the party was, it cannot be a coincidence that the phone number and address are the same as those we have seen for Ma's Bottling - it had to of been someone at Ma's Bottling who was selling the car. I realize this doesn't connect your Squirt crate to 1939-1940, yet, but it's getting closer. However, let's not forget that Ma's Bottling wasn't established in Lebanon until April of 1946. But if someone in Lebanon other than Ma's was bottling Squirt prior to 1946, I still don't understand why there are no Squirt ads prior to 1952.  

From ...

1.  Lebanon Daily News ~ Lebanon, Pennsylvania ~ October 29, *1948*

2.  Re-post from 1950 to confirm Ma's Bottling located at 216 N. 12th Street


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## squirtbob (May 10, 2014)

I hope someone posts information relative to your questions about wood crates.  I have a crate for squirt that has a yellow background and cursive script red lettering. I would date in around 1947. It is divided into 4 sections.  I don't have one but I know that they made paper cartons in the late 40's and 4 of them would fit perfectly in this style box. Somewhere along the line they discovered that less wood x many crates = less weight = savings.  Again, good find.  Bob, did you ever appear on Dragnet?!


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

Bob

Just call me "Sergeant Friday"  ( or should I say, just call me "Little Squirt" )  [] 

More good news!

And in case you're wondering why I'm finding this stuff now, its because this is the first time I have searched out the 216 N. 12th Street address.

The following will confirm the Dengler's still owned the 216 N. 12th Street property in 1942 and 1945 ...

From now on the letters LDNP stand for "Lebanon Daily News" in "Pennsylvania"

1. LDNP ~ March 20, *1942*  ( Some kind of real estate transfer for $1.00 ??? )

2. LDNP ~ March 9, *1945*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

P.S. I'm not sure who Ross B. Dengler was, but possibly the brother of William T. Dengler  ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

Just for the record ... Ross B. Dengler was the son of William T. Dengler - thus the name "Dengler & Son Bottling."  Private Herbert Dengler was the son of Ross Dengler and grandson of William T Dengler. Later on, around 1939, the name was changed to "Dengler & Sons" (plural) but I'm not sure who the second son was. At one point Ross Dengler was the manager of the Coca Cola bottling plant in Harrisburgh, Pa., but he quit that position in 1923 when he and his father bought the "Fegan Bottling Works" in Lebanon, at which time they changed the name. The Dengler family was very prominent in Lebanon at one time and the newspapers contain more Dengler names than I can keep track of. But even with so much information available for the Dengler family and Dengler Bottling in particular, there still isn't a single reference that I can find to indicate they ever bottled Squirt. It still stands that the earliest mention of Squirt in Lebanon, Pa. was in 1952 and was connected to Ma's Bottling.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

Another, "Just for the record" ... So far, the earliest date I can find for the 4211 phone number is 1948. And by that time Ma's Bottling had bought Dengler Bottling, which occurred in 1946.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

Current Summarization / Timeline ...                                  (While its still fresh in my notes and in my mind)  [8|]                     "THE EVOLUTION OF A SQUIRT BOTTLER IN LEBANON, PENNSYLVANIA"
1914 ... Earliest date found for (Simon P.) Fegan Bottling Works located on North Eighth Street. 
1923 ... William T. Dengler and son Ross B. Dengler purchase Fegan Bottling Works. 
1923 ... The name Fegan Bottling Works changed to W. T. Dengler & Son Bottling.
1925 ... Address for Dengler & Son Bottling is Partridge and Monument Streets.
1942 ... Address for Dengler Bottling is 216 N. 12th Street. Phone number unknown.
1946 ... Brothers John Piergallini and Guido Piergallini purchase Dengler Bottling.
1946 ... The name Dengler Bottling changed to Old Fashion Ma's Bottling.
1946 ... Address for Ma's Bottling is 216 N. 12th Street. Phone number unknown. 
1948 ... Phone number for Ma's Bottling is "most likely" Lebanon 4211. (Car for sale classified ad).
1951 ... Piergallini brothers legally apply for the name "Ma's Bottling" 
1951 ... Calendar for Ma's Bottling shows 4211 phone number.
1952 ... Earliest newspaper reference for Squirt in Lebanon, Pa.
1952 ... Earliest known address for Ma's Bottling at 37 North Sixteenth Street.195*?* ... Ma's Bottling, 37 North Sixteenth Street. Phone number 4211. (Black notepad / Likely pre 1954).1954 ... Ma's Bottling, 37 N. 16th Street, Phone Lebanon 2-8701 (Earliest 2-8701 for this address).  
1958 ... Piergallini brothers purchase Krim Beverages on 406 Broad St. but do not change the name.1966 ... Ma's Bottling wins Squirt Company award. (Just one of many).1974 ... Piergallini brothers sell Ma's Bottling to multiple Firms and cease as owner operators.                                                                   ~ * ~

Just for the fun of it, here's a brand of soda pop that was bottled by the Coca Cola Company in Harrisburg, Pa. while Ross B. Dengler was still the manager there in 1923. 

( Has anyone ever heard of it?  I haven't until now! )

*Good-Grape  "Fruit of the Vine"*

LDNP ~  May 21, 1923

( You might have to save and zoom it to read all of the details )


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

No Good-Grape bottle (yet) but I discovered it was bottled in more than one state. This cap ... Sold on eBay in December 2013 for $375.00


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

Good-Grape bottle ~ Elizabethton, Tennessee ~ Date unknown ~ More good pics on link ... ( Totally cool bottle and I wouldn't mind having one ) http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-grape-soda-bottle-amazing-423775427


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 10, 2014)

1958 ... Piergallini brothers purchase Krim Beverages on 406 Broad St. but do not change the name. LDNP ~ December 18, 1958


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 11, 2014)

squirtbob said:
			
		

> I hope someone posts information relative to your questions about wood crates.  I have a crate for squirt that has a yellow background and cursive script red lettering. I would date in around 1947. It is divided into 4 sections.  I don't have one but I know that they made paper cartons in the late 40's and 4 of them would fit perfectly in this style box. Somewhere along the line they discovered that less wood x many crates = less weight = savings.  Again, good find.  Bob, did you ever appear on Dragnet?!



Bob Notice the cardboard Ma's boxes in this picture from 1953. I'm not sure if they switched to cardboard boxes for Squirt as well, but they might have. LDNP ~ January 1, 1953


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 11, 2014)

*Meet ...* Bill Albaugh ~ a.k.a. "Little Squirt" LDNP ~ October 29, 1964


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 11, 2014)

P.S. Bill Albaugh was first hired by the Squirt Company in 1964 and continued as their "Living Trademark" for 30+ years.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 12, 2014)

Self Explanatory ...


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## squirtbob (May 13, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Self Explanatory ...


I think that's my crate on that platform.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 13, 2014)

If we can connect the 4211 phone number to this address, your crate might have originated from here ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 13, 2014)

Reminder:  Ma's Bottling moved from 216 N. 12th Street around 1952 and relocated to 37 N. 16th Street ... From ... LDNP ~ February 23, *1957*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 13, 2014)

Mentions ... 1.  New location for Lloyd's Potato Chips2.  216 N. 12th Street.3.  Former owner Mrs. Dengler (Lloyd's Potato Chips established here in June of 1956 ) From ... LDNP ~ April 26, 1957


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 13, 2014)

P.S. Because the 1957 article mentions Mrs. Dengler as the former owner, that suggest ... The Piergallini brothers (Ma's Bottling) only leased the building and never purchased it, which might explain why they relocated to 37 N. 16th Street.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 13, 2014)

P.S. ~ P.S. I momentarily forgot that we already connected the 4211 phone number to 216 N. 12th Street, which was in the 1948 car for sale classified ad, which by 1948 was the location of Ma's Bottling. And because the 4211 phone number is also connected to the 37 N. 16th Street address, it clearly suggest the Piergallini brothers (Ma's Bottling) transferred the 4211 phone number when they relocated around 1952.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

Bob

In case you haven't already noticed, I wanted you to know I have been doing some editing to the timeline I posted earlier so as to make it as accurate as possible. The most significant changes are ...

195*?* ... Ma's Bottling, 37 North Sixteenth Street. Phone number 4211. (Black notepad / Likely pre 1954).
1954 ... Ma's Bottling, 37 N. 16th Street, Phone Lebanon 2-8701 (Earliest 2-8701 for this address). 

~ * ~

In other words ...

1.  I'm dating the black notepad as "most likely" *1953*
2.  Ma's Bottling phone number changed from Lebanon 4211 to Lebanon 2-8701 in *1954*

From ...

Lebanon Daily News ~ December 20, 1954

(Shows 37 N. 16th address and 2-8701 phone number)


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

Which means ... The 4211 phone number on your Squirt crate likely dates somewhere between about 1948 and 1954


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

Long story short ... Based on my research findings, I am best guessing the date of the 4211 phone number on your Squirt crate as ... *Circa 1952* But as to the actual date of the crate itself, I do not know!


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

By the way ...

Even though Ma's Bottling won some Squirt awards in the 1960s, Squirt actually appears to have been a secondary brand for them in the 1950s. They didn't advertise Squirt all that much until about 1957, which the newspaper ads bare witness to. Prior to about 1957, the majority of their ads are for "Ma's Old Fashioned Root Beer." It's as if Ma's Bottling didn't get on the Squirt wagon until after it became more popular nationwide in the 1950s and 1960s. But once the popularity of Squirt increased nationwide, so did the advertisements for Squirt by Ma's Bottling in Lebanon, Pa.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

Bob In conclusion ... 1.  I agree with you that your Squirt crate has all the earmarks of being made in the late 1930s     or early 1940s. 2.  However, I am of the current opinion that the 4211 phone number was added to your Squirt    crate after it was made!


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

Just for the record ... I have seen lots of pictures of this Ma's crate and because of the 1941 Copyright date stamped on the front of it, most seller's assume that's when it was made and say as much in their descriptions. So I would like to set the record straight, because this particular crate has the Lebanon 2-8701 phone number, that it does not date any earlier than about 1954, and possibly even much later.


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## cowseatmaize (May 15, 2014)

I see from the title this is a private "bob" subject so I stayed away and since I couldn't add to it, I didn't. I did have to skim to check for some secret drug sale coding though. I hope that's OK?[]PS, was there? There was cool research stuff but I'm not sure if there was hidden illicit activity stuff. Just be honest, I won't tell anyone.[]


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

Cows: There's nothing illegal or goofy going on between squirtbob and myself, but there might be with this eBay seller ... 
Here's just one example of what I was saying about seller's descriptions. This Ma's crate is from Lebanon, Pa. and is currently on eBay. Even though the seller doesn't mention a phone number in his description, if you use the zoom to focus on the end panel, the phone number 2-8701 is clearly visible. He is incorrectly assuming that the 1941 Copyright date is when the crate was made.    

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-1941-Mas-Root-Beer-Soda-Crate-Lebanon-PA-Pennsylvania-Solid-Condition-/161159191016?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2585d619e8

SELLER'S DESCRIPTION ...

"This is a very solid and rare 1941 Ma's Root Beer crate Lebanon, PA. The graphics are in great shape. One side has a split in the wood and one side has some writing in pencil which I will leave for the next person to decide what to do whether erase it or keep it. I think it's cool it could have been the guy stocking the shelves keeping a count. The pictures are my best description of the overall condition of the item so look at them carefully. Email me with any questions you may have."


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 15, 2014)

P.S. The eBay seller obviously did not do his homework - otherwise he would have realized that the Ma's Bottling Company in Lebanon, Pa. wasn't established until 1946.


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## M.C.Glass (May 15, 2014)

I think ol' Bob is trying to pad his post numbers - Terrific research, but someone needs to get a hobby.Wait, this IS a hobby. Get a job, Bob-O!Just kidding. Tons of hits, people are reading you.


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## squirtbob (May 16, 2014)

Great work Bob.  Maybe we can celebrate all this hard detective work by brewing up some of the original squirt for all your readers.  The following from 1942.


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## cowseatmaize (May 16, 2014)

[] I'll send a SASB (bottle) to you if you make that happen. []


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 16, 2014)

MCglass:

What do you mean "job?"  I don't need no stinking job - I'm retired!  As to your comment about padding the view numbers, you're right!  I tap into this thread at least 250 times a day just to increase them (Not!). Seriously, though, thanks for the thumbs up. I try even though my findings aren't always conclusive and sometimes wander hither and thither.  

~ * ~

Squirtbob:

Cool formula. But as it says on the bottom, "Tack This Sheet On Your Syrup Room Wall."  Surely you have a syrup room - right?

~ * ~

Cows:

What's an SASB?

~ * ~

Here's one of those hither and thither subjects I referred to that has puzzled me ever since I received it a couple of years ago. The picture was sent to me by John Mehren, who was a Squirt chemist in San Diego in the 1940s and also the brother of Squirt co-founder, Ed Mehren. According to John, the picture is of Ed in the late 1930s or early 1940s. 

Notice ...

1.  The crates are wood - you can see three slats on the bottom of each one.
2.  The word Squirt is slanted  - which are the only crates I've seen like it. Every picture I have
      found of these early crates shows the word Squirt level and not slanted.
3.  The bottle he is holding appears to have a noticeably rounded shoulder and is not gently
     sloped like the Squirt bottles we are familiar with. 
4.  The word Squirt appears to be higher up on the bottle and not near the bottom like the
     Squirt bottles we are familiar with.

Question:

Are my observations about the picture accurate, especially about the bottle, or am I just imagining things?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 16, 2014)

Remember what I said earlier about Squirt being a secondary brand of Ma's Bottling?  Well, here's a good example of how they were still pushing their root beer over Squirt as late as 1962 ... LDN ~ September 8, 1962


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## squirtbob (May 17, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> MCglass:
> 
> What do you mean "job?"  I don't need no stinking job - I'm retired!  As to your comment about padding the view numbers, you're right!  I tap into this thread at least 250 times a day just to increase them (Not!). Seriously, though, thanks for the thumbs up. I try even though my findings aren't always conclusive and sometimes wander hither and thither.
> 
> ...


Bob, That's a great picture.  Is there any way that you can enlarge the bottle Mehren has in his hand? I can tell you that the only other black script squirt that I've seen is noticeably slanted on the yellow splash, unlike mine.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2014)

Bob This is the best I could do with enlarging the Mehren bottle. I included a picture of your bottle for comparison. After opening either image, if you place your cursor arrow over the image and then gently roll the scroll wheel, it will automatically switch back and forth from each image. That way you can compare them instantly. The bottle shapes look different to me, but I'm not certain if I'm right or just seeing things.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2014)

P.S. Shortly after I received the picture from John Mehren I had a computer problem and lost all of my emails but was able to retrieve my picture files. I'm about 99.9% certain that John told me in the accompanying message that the picture of John Mehren was taken in *1939*. I even titled it as such when I originally saved it to my files.


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## squirtbob (May 17, 2014)

I tried to enlarge the picture without a great deal of success.  Since I've positively seen 1938 and 1939 bottles, and there is no difference in shape, I would say it's just a poor picture of the bottle and there are certainly some shadows.  Otherwise that's a great picture.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2014)

Bob

I agree the Mehren bottle is a standard Squirt type with a sloped shoulder. I did a forensic examination of it using zoom and various other applications with my photo editing tools and discovered ...

1.  The shadow "inside" his coat cuff distorts the base of the bottle and the bottle isn't as tall
     as it appears.

2.  The upper-right portion of the bottle is "pressed" into the palm of his hand which distorts the
     shoulder of the bottle. 

3.  His fingers are partially wrapped around the left shoulder of the bottle which distorts that
     portion as well. 

Here's a couple of images I toyed around with ...

1.  The red line is the actual base of the bottle. The rest of what you see is shadow.

2.  I changed the color of the shadow "inside" his coat cuff so as to enhance the base.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2014)

[ squirtbob quote ]
"I can tell you that the only other black script squirt that I've seen is noticeably slanted on the yellow splash, unlike mine."

~ * ~ P.S. Please tell of more about the "slanted" black-script bottle. Do you have a picture of it?


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## squirtbob (May 18, 2014)

Bob,  If I get permission to post the picture I will.  I can say this, the picture you posted of Mehren is interesting on more than one level.  The crates all have the slanted script but the banner does not.  The black script bottle, not mine, is slanted upwards almost, but not quite, to the same degree as the crate. The bottle was made by Owens-Illinois and positively dates to 1938.It would be interesting to know who made the blue caps that went on the first bottles.  You have probably noticed that they are easy to find and always in unused condition.


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## squirtbob (May 19, 2014)

Bob,  I wonder who and how advertising was controlled at squirt.  Thought you might like to see various caps and matchbook ads and how they match up to the early bottles.The blue cap, matchbook "a drink, a mixer" match up with a 1939 & 1940 bottles that I have.The tart sweet matchbook shows a blue cap, the tart sweet ad on the bottle appeared in 1941.In the public eye followed next and the cap was changed to red in a yellow splash but the bottle contents remained on the back of the bottle.The final ad shows squirt underlined on the matchbook and bottle and the cap now has the contents listed on it and not on the bottle.


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## squirtbob (May 19, 2014)

Here are the balance of the ads.


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## squirtbob (May 21, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> [ squirtbob quote ]
> "I can tell you that the only other black script squirt that I've seen is noticeably slanted on the yellow splash, unlike mine."
> 
> ~ * ~ P.S. Please tell of more about the "slanted" black-script bottle. Do you have a picture of it?


I just received permission to post the pictures of the confirmed 1938 black script squirt. The condition of this one is far better than mine. The date is clear on the bottom. It is an Owens-Illinois bottle from 1938 and produced at the Streator plant (which makes me jealous because that's where I grew up and my grandfather probably worked at that plant at that time).  The back is in excellent and very clear and you see it was bottled in Quincy, IL. I'd like to thank Steve Wilson for giving me permission to post this, ...hoping he'll sell it to me or find me another one![] The back of my bottle is so faded that it is ghost like, however the detail is exactly the same as this bottle, with the exception of it being bottled in Joliet, IL ...so both of the only two black script bottles I've seen are from Illinois.


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## squirtbob (May 21, 2014)

2nd attempt. I had to resize the pictures. The bottle belongs to Steve Wilson with thanks given to him for the pictures.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 21, 2014)

Bob Great bottle and great pictures!  Thanks for posting them. This might be the first time that a 1938 slant-script Squirt bottle has ever been seen "in the public eye." Good job! I hope you eventually acquire one. And if you find two, please remember me. []


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## squirtbob (May 21, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Bob Great bottle and great pictures!  Thanks for posting them. This might be the first time that a 1938 slant-script Squirt bottle has ever been seen "in the public eye." Good job! I hope you eventually acquire one. And if you find two, please remember me. []


Will do. If I do ever find one you'll be the first to know.  You've uncovered lots of interesting information ...perhaps there's a collector booklet in the future?  Just need to motivate some of those folks on the west coast.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 22, 2014)

Unless I'm forgetting one,* the current total of known Squirt bottles from 1938 comes to six ... 1.  Quincy, Illinois ~ Black Slant-script label (Confirmed)2.  Joliet, Illinois ~ Black Slant-script label (Confirmed)3.  Manitowoc, Wisconsin ~ Label type unknown4.  Menasha, Wisconsin ~ Label type unknown5.  Alton, Illinois ~ Label type unknown6.  Appleton, Wisconsin ~ Label type unknown *Please let me know if my list needs editing. It would be interesting to know which was the first or if several of them started at the same time?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 22, 2014)

Hey, Bob We just hit the 10,000 views count! Too bad there aren't that many 1938 Squirt bottles to be found. []


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## squirtbob (May 22, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Hey, Bob We just hit the 10,000 views count! Too bad there aren't that many 1938 Squirt bottles to be found. []


That number of views must be a testimony to your detective work.  I'd like to see some comments from others relative to this topic.  I think that your list is accurate thus far.  Based on a 1939 bottle that Steve Wilson also has if you have time see what you can find in Mount Holly, NJ.


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## squirtbob (May 24, 2014)

Here's one of my favorite squirt ads from 1946.


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