# Royal Crown Beverages Bottle



## arkansas@1972 (May 27, 2021)

Does anyone know anything about this bottle?  Royal Crown Beverages, Baton Rouge, LA on the bottom also has 3R

Any info would be greatly appricated.


Thanks, 

Lori D. Sain


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## bottle-bud (May 27, 2021)

Cool looking bottle, but I 've never seen that version before.


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## iggyworf (May 27, 2021)

I have seen that one before but I don't think its to common. What is on the bottom of it?


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## hemihampton (May 27, 2021)

iggyworf said:


> I have seen that one before but I don't think its to common. What is on the bottom of it?





From Her description above.

"LA on the bottom also has 3R"


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## SKS.TUSC (May 27, 2021)

arkansas@1972 said:


> Does anyone know anything about this bottle?  Royal Crown Beverages, Baton Rouge, LA on the bottom also has 3R
> 
> Any info would be greatly appricated.
> 
> ...


I don't know, but do u want to sell it? Lol, love Crown & would love to have an old bottle.


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## arkansas@1972 (May 27, 2021)

SKS.TUSC said:


> I don't know, but do u want to sell it? Lol, love Crown & would love to have an old bottle.


I'm going to hold onto it for now....would like any info about it


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (May 27, 2021)

I have not seen an embossed one of those. Here is some history on RC.
ROBBYBOBBY64. 








						Royal Crown Cola Company - New Georgia Encyclopedia
					

Columbus-based Royal Crown Cola Company (RC), although never as renowned as its rival Coca-Cola, used the soft-drink industry’s first taste tests to prove that it was a superior soda. Forever linked to a popular marshmallow-filled snack treat through the country song “RC Cola and Moon Pie,” the...




					www.georgiaencyclopedia.org


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## hemihampton (May 27, 2021)

I wonder if that's there first Bottle in 1934 before switching to the ACL Bottle. Maybe SodapopBob knows?????? LEON.


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## ROBBYBOBBY64 (May 28, 2021)

Not sure but looks about that era hemihampton. Sodabob is great with the most thorough answers.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## M.C.Glass (May 29, 2021)

I kind of think that this is a newer bottle. 1950+. Just because it’s stippled on the body. I don’t think they worked them that way early on.  I’d like to see if if the bottom is also stippled or smooth. If so, that would help verify it’s not a pre-ACL bottle.


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## HouTxSoda (Jun 1, 2021)

That bottle was made by the Three Rivers Glass Company of Texas, hence the "3R*" on the base.
This type of bottle was used in a few other towns too.
It is a very desirable bottle, congrats !


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## webe992 (Jun 1, 2021)

To piggyback on the above statement.  The 3 Rivers Glass plant in Texas was open from 1922-1937 before Ball bought them out and shut them down.  So this bottle is from around that timeframe.


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## SODABOB (Jun 4, 2021)

Howdy

Royal Crown Beverages was a line of fruit flavored sodas including Ginger Ale, Strawberry, Grape, Orange, Root Beer, etc. As far as I know, those particular bottles never contained Royal Crown Cola. 

There were two Three Rivers Glass plants ... 

Texas (1922-1936)
Bastrop, Louisiana (1929-1933)

Because the bottle in question is from Baton Rouge, it was most likely made at the Bastrop plant between 1929 and 1933.  Many collectors consider these bottles to be rare and/or hard to find. The attached Royal Crown Root Beer bottle sold on eBay in 2012 for $103 - although I do not know their current values. 

This link is to a Three Rivers article compiled by the Bottle Research Group (BRG) which I contributed to. 

ThreeRiversGlass.pdf (sha.org) 

I always thought it strange that Royal Crown once had a line of flavored beverages - especially when you take into account that Nehi (which was part of the Royal Crown legacy) was also a line of fruit flavored beverages.  

I hope this information helps

Bob


Sold on eBay in 2012 for $103











This newspaper article is dated August 3, 1929


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

Thank you so much for the info.


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## SODABOB (Jun 5, 2021)

Lori

Does your bottle have Nehi Bottling on it - or possibly some other bottling plant?  I'm trying to determine which Baton Rouge bottler it came from and possibly narrow down when it was first sold.  I have seen similar bottles that have Nehi Bottling on them. 

Thanks

Bob


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

Yes it does say Nehi toward the bottom


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

This is a pic of the side & the bottom.  Thank you very much for the info again


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## SODABOB (Jun 5, 2021)

Perfect - Thank you  

I might have narrowed down the bottler to a Curtis F. Whatley who operated the Nehi Bottling in Baton Rouge around that time period.  In 1917, Whatley worked as a book keeper for Chero Cola in Columbus Georgia - and was a salesman for a bottling plant in Baton Rouge in 1930.  I will let you know if I find anything else.


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

SODABOB said:


> Perfect - Thank you
> 
> I might have narrowed down the bottler to a Curtis F. Whatley who operated the Nehi Bottling in Baton Rouge around that time period.  In 1917, Whatley worked as a book keeper for Chero Cola in Columbus Georgia - and was a salesman for a bottling plant in Baton Rouge in 1930.  I will let you know if I find anything else.



Wow...thats's awesome.   Thank you so much!!!


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

I was looking through my bottles and I also found this one that I have.  It says "Crown Carbonating Co W.H. Jenkins Propr.
Marion.O.  then a little lower down it says"Registered This Bottle Never Sold."
I found this bottle when I was a kid.  My grandparents owned a store in Newton County Arkansas & I found it in a field across the road from the store.  I found several different bottles so I figured that was where they dumped them.  If you have any info on this one that would be great SODABOB.  Thank you for the info on the other bottle too.


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## hemihampton (Jun 5, 2021)

arkansas@1972 said:


> I was looking through my bottles and I also found this one that I have.  It says "Crown Carbonating Co W.H. Jenkins Propr.
> Marion.O.  then a little lower down it says"Registered This Bottle Never Sold."
> I found this bottle when I was a kid.  My grandparents owned a store in Newton County Arkansas & I found it in a field across the road from the store.  I found several different bottles so I figured that was where they dumped them.  If you have any info on this one that would be great SODABOB.  Thank you for the info on the other bottle too.



All I can tell you about that Bottle is in 1910 they were making Soda Water. LEON.


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## SODABOB (Jun 5, 2021)

Read All About It/Him = Crown Carbonating Co. / William H. Jenkins

(This is all I have found so far / Titled and dated accordingly)


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

Thank you for all the wonderful info.


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## SODABOB (Jun 5, 2021)

P.S.

In the 1918 news article (when he sold to Birch) it says that Jenkins was in operation "for the past fifteen years" -- which indicates he was likely in operation between circa 1903 to circa 1918.  Although I have not been able to confirm it yet, I saw a brief snippet that seemed to indicate that Jenkins passed away in 1922.  If all of this is accurate, your bottle should date sometime between 1903 and 1918.  Look close and see if there is a makers mark or any symbols, numbers, or letters anywhere on the bottle. If it does, we might be able to date it more accurately. 

Thanks,

Bob


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

This is the only numbers I found on the side, nothing on the bottom


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## SODABOB (Jun 5, 2021)

Super-Thanks ... except I can't make it out with my old eyes.  Am I seeing   *7 S 1*


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

Lol, I know it is hard to see.  It looks like 16S1 or 6S & that just two lines on each side


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## SODABOB (Jun 5, 2021)

Groovy -- That might be just enough to find something -- especially if the third digit is an *S*


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## hemihampton (Jun 5, 2021)

is it a tooled hand finished crown top or ABM crowntop?


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 5, 2021)

This is the Crown Carbonating Co. W.H. Jenkins bottle


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## SODABOB (Jun 6, 2021)

I couldn't find a soda bottle with a 16*S*1  mark, but I did find this Coca Cola bottle from Norfolk, Virginia that was described as being marked with 16*5*1 on the heel.  I acknowledge that the attached photo of the heel is not very clear, but I am taking the seller's word that it is accurately described.  

The following link is to a study about dating early Coca Cola bottles.  The only thing I found in it that might explain the use of a four digit number on the heel of early Coca Cola bottles is on Page 63 involving the Southern Indiana Glass Works. The attached snippet is from Page 63 of the study. According to the study, Southern Indiana Glass was in operation between 1906 and 1912.  If the mark on the Crown Carbonating bottle, as well as the mark on the Norfolk Coca Cola bottle are both 1651, this might provide us with a clue or two for future research, and possibly narrow down the date of manufacture for the Crown Carbonating bottle from Marion, Ohio.  Please stay tuned because I will be posting some additional information about the Coca Cola bottling plant located in Marion, Ohio. 

Link to dating early Coca Cola bottles - Bill Porter & Bill Lockhart

DatingEarlyCocaColaBottles.pdf (fohbc.org) 


Question for Lori;  

Does your Crown Carbonating bottle have the contents embossed on it?  If not, it was very likely made before 1914.  In 1913 the "Gould Amendment" was added to the 1906 Food & Drug Act that required all food and beverage containers to clearly show the amount of contents on the package or the bottle. The Amendment was strictly enforced starting in 1914. 

I'll be back

Bob


Notice the similarity of the two bottles







Described as 1651  -- Likely a style or glass house catalog number


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 6, 2021)

At one time I did have a Coca Cola bottle from Marion O. that looked like the Crown Carbonating bottle.  Sadly, it got broke not to long after I found it.  It was with the Crown Carbonating bottle I found, so they prob are all intertwined together one way or another.  I also fould another bottle that says "Upper Sandusky Bottling Works, Doyle & Schlicher"  This bottle also has an "S" on the side near the bottom.  It just amazes me how these bottles made it to the samll area of Newton County, Arkansas.  My grandparents opened their store in the late 40's.  It was called Sain's Grocery at that time.  And again thank you for all the info, wondering reading & leaning about the bottles.


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 6, 2021)

And no, the Crown Carbonating bottle does not have the amount of contents on the bottle, but the second one I posted does.  It says Contents 7 1/2 Flu Oz


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## SODABOB (Jun 6, 2021)

Thanks, Lori -- very helpful and interesting

Even though we may never be able to narrow down an exact date for your Crown Carbonating bottle, I think it's safe to say it was likely made sometime between 1903 and 1913.  Leon had a good point regarding whether the bottle was hand blown (tooled finish) or machine made. However, that in itself can be a little misleading because some glass houses produced hand blown bottles well into the early 1920s. As for machine made bottles, the earliest likely date for those is around 1903-05 when Michael Owens introduced his first semi-automatic and automatic bottle machines -- all of which (hand blown and machine made) fall within the 1903-1913 time period. Two of the best ways to determine the difference between hand blown and machine made bottles are as follows ... 

1.  Check the mold seams on the sides. If the seams stop just below the top (finish) it is likely hand blown. If the seam goes up and over the top, it is machine made. Hand blown bottles often have striations or streaks on the neck that were caused by a finishing tool. - which spun around the top to smooth it out. (see attachments)

2.  Early machine made bottles often have what is generally referred to as an "Owens Scar"  -- which are easy to see and look like a large, sometimes off-center circle that often has "feathered" edges around it. (see attachment)

Does your Crown Carbonating bottle have an Owens scar?  And what about the seams and/or striations around the neck?

More to follow

Bob


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 6, 2021)

This is the top of the Crown Carbonating bottle.  It looks like the seam stops before it gets to the top.


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## SODABOB (Jun 6, 2021)

Thanks -- it looks hand blown to me -- hence a circa 1905 to circa 1915 time period

Last but not least ...

Guess who was involved with the first Coca Cola Bottling plant in Marion, Ohio in 1915-16?  Our buddy S. L. Birch (and son)  who bought the Crown Carbonating Co. from W. H. Jenkins in 1918

William H. Jenkins
Sylvester L. Birch


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 6, 2021)

Wow...thats all so neat.  I wish I stil  had that Coca Cola bottle but glad of what I do have.  It still puzzles me how the bottles got all the way down to Newton County, Arkansas from Ohio.


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## SODABOB (Jun 6, 2021)

arkansas@1972 said:


> I was looking through my bottles and I also found this one that I have.  It says "Crown Carbonating Co W.H. Jenkins Propr.
> Marion.O.  then a little lower down it says"Registered This Bottle Never Sold."
> I found this bottle when I was a kid.  My grandparents owned a store in Newton County Arkansas & I found it in a field across the road from the store.  I found several different bottles so I figured that was where they dumped them.  If you have any info on this one that would be great SODABOB.  Thank you for the info on the other bottle too.




Lori

Because you found the bottles when you were a kid, it's hard (impossible?) to say how they got from one state to another, but I suspect it was probably by some traveler.  Because your bottles appear to be in great shape, it could be that someone tried to return it to your grandparents store, who realized it wasn't a local bottle, so they disposed of it in the "dump" across the street. 

Bob


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## arkansas@1972 (Jun 6, 2021)

Yes, that could be.  I am 49 now and I was about 10 or 11 when I found the bottles.  It's just crazy but your right, I'll never know how the bottles got there.  Again, thank you so much for all the info you found.


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## SODABOB (Jun 6, 2021)

*It was fun - Thank you!

Bob*


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## hemihampton (Jun 6, 2021)

I could be wrong here but looks ABM to me, if hand blown hand finished crown top the seam lines would fade away in the neck area & typically have some kind of whittle look to it, this bottle has none of that. it does have a extra mold line that runs around the bottles crown as pointed out in my black lines making this ABM even though the line does not run all the way up to top although looks like might be a very faint light line running all the way to top. just my 2 cents. LEON.


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## hemihampton (Jun 6, 2021)

Here's a straight sided Coke I have BIMAL with wittled neck.


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## SODABOB (Jun 7, 2021)

Leon

Thanks for the clarification -- the Crown Carbonating bottle does appear to be machine made.  I now believe the code on the heel includes an 'S' and not a '5' as I previously thought -- such as those made by the American Bottle Company 

*16 S 1

16 = 1916
S   = Streator plant in Illinois
1    =  Mold number



















*


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## SODABOB (Jun 8, 2021)

I thought I would add this for general interest.  It's to a 1912 book about the history of Streator, Illinois and includes a brief history of the American Bottle Company located there. The ABC history starts on Page 10. On Page 13 there is a history of the Thatcher Manufacturing Company, who were well known for their milk bottle production.  On Page 42 there is an interesting writeup about M.W. Jack who was instrumental with the American Bottle Company.  

Click on the (+) zoom for easier reading

The story of Streator. Being an account of the growth of its institutions civic, social and industrial, with special reference to its manufacturing and business interests; together with an outline of its early history and life sketches of some of its leading citizens : Williams, John Elias, 1853-1919 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive 


Illustration in the book - The book also includes some actual photos of the factory







This one is especially for Leon


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## SODABOB (Jun 8, 2021)

Sources - for additional research




4-page_spread (sha.org)


AmericanBottleCo.pdf (sha.org)


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## hemihampton (Jun 8, 2021)

As for the 1912 article here's my speculation. those are ABM Bottles being made in 1912. Why, since they are using Owens Machines & Owens invented or Introduced the new ABM Bottle making Procedure way back in 1903, And this Huge Massive Bottling Works touts it's large size & the fact that it is of the most Modern Construction it would not being using a outdated primitive method. The only people using a older outdated method would be much smaller company's with a much smaller Budget. Article say's it uses twelve Owen Automatic Process Bottle Blowing Machines but in Today's Lingo that would Translate to Automatic Bottle Machine or ABM. LEON.


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