# this is really starting to become a problem...



## tigue710 (Jan 11, 2009)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B07EED8123DF93BA15754C0A9679C8B63&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all


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## glass man (Jan 11, 2009)

YEP GETTING MORE AND MORE OBNOXIOUS! GIVING ARCHEOLOGY A BAD NAME INSTEAD OF THE OTHER WAY AROUND!  IF THEY CARE WHY NOT GIVE A PERMIT TO A DIGGER TO ITEMISE ALL THEY FIND AND THEY CAN SIGN OFF ON IT[THE PROS?] THEY CAN ANALIZE IT OR WHATEVER,THE DIGGERS DO THE WORK AND KEEP THE FINDS CEPT FOR THE BROKE ,CRACKED STUFF AND ALL CAN BE HAPPY! THE ARCHEOLOGISTS DON'T CARE TILL THEY FIND OUT BOUT A DIG ! SICK OF IT! JAMIE


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## glass man (Jan 11, 2009)

HE GOT A LYDIA PINKAMS? MY GOSH THAT HISTORY DESTROYING DEVIL! WHAT A FIND !COULD HAVE BEEN PRESERVED FOR LITTLE KIDS TO LOOK AT FOR YEARS TO COME AND STARE IN GREAT AMAZEMENT AT IT ,BUT NOOOOOOOOOOOO! THIS GUY WAS JUST DIGGING IT UP FOR THE GREAT MONEY VALUE OF A LYDIA PINK.....DAMN FORGET IT!


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## tigue710 (Jan 11, 2009)

ya, bet he bought a house with that lydia loot!

 funny thing is that the story seems to imply that the other local diggers snitched him out!


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## adshepard (Jan 11, 2009)

You privy diggers are an evil lot! []  Now we that dive for bottles, well we're just picking up the trash off the bottom.  We are environmentalists.

 Seriously now this entire privy diggers versus archaeologists thing is a  bunch of garbage.  The archaeologists would likely never dig the stuff in the first place and if they did they'd haul it in to some dark back room never to be seen by the public.  On top of that most of what comes out of a privy isn't some earth shaking find.

 Divers have had the same problem in some states and across the world with underwater archaeologists getting laws put in to place to protect wrecks.  However most of those wrecks will never be visited or excavated and the stuff that is there will be worn away or buried forever.

 Alan


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## capsoda (Jan 11, 2009)

I guess in some places where there are no really historical sites all they have are privys. Nothing any more historical about one privy over another. Many Archy types feel they are above everyone else but there are some good ones. That guy shouldn't have broken into that site so he is getting what he deserves. 

 The things that come out of a privy was mostly thrown away so in my simple mind it is fare game.


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## tigue710 (Jan 11, 2009)

I think the problem is that most of the people who get into archeology now started as kids digging old bottles.  They're just burnt that we get to just go out and dig them after all the hard work they've done to get their degrees, and now they want to get rid of the competition!


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## Jim (Jan 11, 2009)

The New York Times is not fit for wrapping fish. I love it every time I hear about their plunging sales and revenues.

 All these idiots are doing is giving the field of archaeology, and all of the good, respectable people in it, a big black eye. Nobody will ever stop privy digging or any other type of artifact hunting on private property and with consent. They will, however, drive many diggers "underground", and the public will lose out on sharing in the knowledge that is gained from these activities. I feel bad for the decent people in archaeology who get a bad rap and "guilt by association" because of these arrogant, statist jerks.  ~Jim


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## blobbottlebob (Jan 12, 2009)

> HE GOT A LYDIA PINKAMS? MY GOSH THAT HISTORY DESTROYING DEVIL!


 Very funny Glass Man. It's a good thing it didn't break or there's no telling what future generations would be denied!


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## blobbottlebob (Jan 12, 2009)

The article quotes an archaeologist who says that some diggers are ''sincere but misguided history buffs,'' and that others are ''just looters.''

 I prefer the term looters for justice.


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## BDD (Jan 12, 2009)

Another attempt by the archies to give privy digging a bad name in the public eye. There are at least hundreds of thousands if not millions of privy sites in this country, and you're telling me they want to dig up and study every one of them? Ridiculous! I have no problem whatsoever with a person going to school, getting a degree in archaeology and then digging every privy he or she can find. Come on in, the water's fine. That's your right. It's also MY right as a free U.S. citizen to dig up old junk if I want to, EVEN IF I'm not doing it to "preserve history".  Their rights do not trump our rights. EVEN IF I just happen to like old bottles and don't care about the history connected with them, or EVEN IF I just want to sell them for a profit. The government toadies are trying to make what we like to do immoral by attaching  "destruction of history" to what we do. If that's the case, we need to put a halt on all construction, and pretty much everything else until the archaeolgists can wring all the history out of the ground. And if they ever do get around to actually doing a dig, the finds are usually packed away in storage where no one ever enjoys them anyway, and you need a permit just to see them. Now the guy that broke into a locked area to dig was in the wrong, and they have the right to prosecute him. It's their attempt to ban the whole activity that makes me sick. I wish we could somehow turn this thing around and wake up the public to these government types stomping on decent american's freedoms. We are good salvors and peservationists. They are dictators, and unfortunately they are winning. Sorry about  the pontificating, this topic gets me riled up. Jay


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## Road Dog (Jan 12, 2009)

Same problem with the Indian Artifacts. The museums obtain all this material and box it up and put it in a dark room for no one to see. There was one instance where ten or 11 boxes of Indan artifacts were accidentally hauled off to the landfill. Most of the time the museums accumulate so much in those back rooms it gets all jumbled anyways. It then, loses its provenance. Then they sell it at an auction. Happened many a time.


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## blobbottlebob (Jan 12, 2009)

Well said Jay!


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## glass man (Jan 12, 2009)

THE QOUTE"THEY EVEN SHOW PICTURES ON THEIR WEBSITES,LOOKING UP AT THE CAMERA LOOKING LIKK THEY ARE HAVING FUN"OR SOMEN LIKE THAT I DON'T WANT TO GET ANYBODY PARANOID ,BUT ARE THE ARCH..CIES[[8D]] ON THIS SITE A LOOKIN? THE ONE THAT MAKES US SOUND LIKE THE SOPHRANOS OR ARMY ANTS OR SOMEN IS THE QUOTE"THEY ARE VERY WELL ORGANIZED"! RIGHT ON BOTH COUNTS THERE YOU GREAT INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER YOU!YEP ,CRACK ,METH,KIDNAPINGS,POLICTICAL CORRUPTION,AND ONLY THE GOOD LORD KNOWS WHAT ALL CAUSE MANY REPORTERS GOT TO FIND OUT THE ORGANIZED PRIVVY DIGGERS THAT GOT THAT DAMN PINKIM BOTTLE!!![] HEY IF THE ARCHIOLOGIST WERE REALLY SMART THEY WOULD WORK IN TANDUM WITH THE PRIVIY DIGGERS AS I SAID. I AM SURE THEY WOULD GIVE UP ALL THE PINKIM BOTTLES THEY WOULD EVER WANT OR NEED!THE TROUBLE IS THEN THE ARCH-VILLINS WOULD FIND OUT WHAT IS RARE[WHICH THEY CAN'T FIND OUT IN NO TEXT BOOK AND MOST CASES NO FOUR YEARS OF SCHOOL OR DIGGING SITES] AND WOULD GET GREEDY AND MAY UP IT TO A AQUA GREAT DR. KILMERS SWAMP ROOT REMEDY! OR EVEN CURE![]  HEY PEOPLE ARE SO KNOWLEDGEABLE ON HERE THE ARCHIES COULD JUST COME ON ASK QUESTIONS AND ACTUALLY LEARN WHAT MANY HERE HAVE LEARNED IN 5-50 + YEARS! SAVE EM ALOT OF WORK AND GRIEF! FACT MANY ON HERE WOULD BE FAR BETTER PROFESSORS THEN WHAT MANY ADVANCED HIGHER LEARNING TO THE NTH DEGREE OF B. S .HAVE GOT! HEY I HAD  P. H. D. S,BUT LOST THEM DANG POST HOLE DIGGERS SOMEWHERE![] OLD JOKE ,BUT ALWAYS GOOD TO SEE IT AGAIN LIKE A LONG LOST FRIEND! I AM GONNA SAVE UP BUY ME A DEGREE ON PRICE LINE AND MAKE YALL LET ME SEE ALL YALL DIG! I MIGHT EVEN GET ONE OF THOSE PINKIM BOTTLES FROM YALL! NAH![&:]


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## tigue710 (Jan 12, 2009)

they're here looking Jamie...  they sit back and e-mail each other to check out the latest digs and snivel over it...

 As much as I love the forum it is the nail in our coffin.  all the videos on you tube, and other places, they would hardly know we exist if we hadnt plastered it out there for them to see "hey look over here!  were digging bottles!"  The truth is the archys will win eventually.  They hold "important" jobs and all the bitching is going to be heard, or  a privy will cave in on someone digging it wrong and they will say"see, we told you so" "something must be done right way!"  and it will get done...   

 the digging and finding section should be for members only, the whole thing should be for member only...

 anyone can google bottle or privy dig, find this site and look at the digs...


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## glass man (Jan 12, 2009)

RIGHT ON TIQUE! SOON A KILER WILL GET OUT OF PRISON[AS USUAL] IN 5 YEARS AND PRETTY FAIR BEHAVIOR FOR A PERSON WHO MURDERS,A CORUPT POLITITION AND CEO WHO BILKED THE PUBLIC OUT OF BILLIONS WILL STILL GET COMPENSATED FOR IT OR LITTLE TIME,BUT A DANG OLE SLIMY PRIVY DIGGER WILL GET 200 CONSECATIVE LIFE TERMS FOR KEEPING KIDS FROM LEARNING ALL ABOUT LYDIA PINKIM ,HER BOTTLES AND HER MARKETING METHODS FOR THE LITTLE FUTURE CEOS ORGANIZATION,SPONSORED BY PLIF MEDICAL CORPORATION!


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## Stardust (Jan 12, 2009)

dr.tigue,
 you can always just agree to disagree with this article,
 put it down and walk away stress free.
 i read lots of stuff and say hogwash, laugh, say, "there they go again."

 i think you might be worrying about nothing.
 this writter had a news story and like cappy said the person did wrong.
 how many diggers are there out there?
 you are a tiny dot in the whole world of diggers.
 (not to us)
 no one is looking at you personally.

 this is one article that looks bigger than it really is when it's online.
 half the reader's of the NYtimes don't even read it cover to cover.
 besides who really cares.
 don't let this bother you so.
 if it does write a commet back.
 don't let this become a problem
 do something about it if you can.
 educated the NYT with a comeback or just leave it alone as it was only a story.
 someone trying to make a story to feed his family
 as it's hard times for everyone right now.
 You're a really nice guy.
 I don't like seeing you so upset,
 this will pass.......
 and hang on to your most
 valuable bottles.....[]


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## BDD (Jan 12, 2009)

> ORIGINAL: tigue710
> 
> they're here looking Jamie...  they sit back and e-mail each other to check out the latest digs and snivel over it...
> 
> ...


 Tigue, you hit the nail on the head, it's a great hobby and we want to share it with others. But in the end we're digging our own graves.


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## CALDIGR2 (Jan 12, 2009)

Shame on Mr. Clements. Not for digging the pit, but for failure to completely remove the contents. No self repecting privy digger would only dig out the middle of a pit. When you dig a privy, GET IT ALL, right down to the corners of corners and all the walls. He deserves what he gets for being a dummy. 

 I love the way archys dig a pit. First, they need money from the person(s), agency or city owning the property. Those guys wouldn't THINK of digging for nothing. After all, THEY are "professionals". Then they would have to make a plan, and that costs more money. The actual dig for the average 4X4X6' would take about 3 weeks, digging in 10 cm increments. The cost would be around $15K, including the after-dig report, which would only be viewed by the responsible parties and not available to the public for a number of years. Any and all items, no matter how insignificant, would be numbered, catalogued and boxed away in a storage facility at an undisclosed location. It is a lose-lose situation for everyone but the archys. They get paid to dig like a snail, AND keep all the goods.

 We privy diggers, on the other hand, will do it for nothing, and maybe pay for the privilege of doing so. The finds would be shared with the owner(s) and all extraneous material returned to the pit as it is filled and compacted. A proper dig of a pit of the above size should take around 4 hrs, start to finish. Everyone comes out ahead.

 That being said, why do archys have such a stranglehold over the owners of ceertain properties in some cities? It make no sense at all, especially since their interests are entirely self-centered, with absolutely no thought given to the tax paying public, from who often funds these "professionals" so often rely.


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## tigue710 (Jan 12, 2009)

I was wondering myself who would dig a pit with out cleaning the corners?  My guess is he left the pit because it was to new.  Should of filled it in and made it look good though...


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## pyshodoodle (Jan 12, 2009)

Uh Oh... I've got one of them


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## glass man (Jan 12, 2009)

THERE YOU WENT AND DONE IT NOW KATE! WE WILL TRY AND WRITE YOU AT THE PRISON AS OFT AS WE CAN. BUT SHAME ON YOU![8D] YEAH YOU MAY GET PROBATION WITH A PROMISE NEVER TO MESS WITH THE GREAT MRS PINKAM AGAIN! WATCH SHAWSHANK REDEMTION AS MUCH AS YOU CAN BEFORE YOU GO TO THE BIG HOUSE AND LOOK FOR A GUY NAMED RED WHO CAN GET YOU THINGS! SEE YOU ON THE OUTSIDE IN A FEW YEARS! NEVER WOULD HAVE THOUGHT IT OF YOU! IT IS ALWAYS THE QUITE ONES! COURSE AS YOU DIG OUT OF PRISON,LOOK FOR BOTTLES ALONG THE WAY! JAMIE


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## pyshodoodle (Jan 12, 2009)

Glassman - gonna need a big Ty Pennington poster......


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## pyshodoodle (Jan 12, 2009)

Actually, make that Matthew Mcconaughey....


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## glass man (Jan 12, 2009)

[8D] COOL!


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## baltbottles (Jan 12, 2009)

Sad thing about their site is I can't seem to find an email link to contact her. I'd like to offer her an opinion from our end of the spectrum.

 Chris


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## tigue710 (Jan 12, 2009)

wow Lobey, I feel pretty dumb having missed that!  I saw the date in the header breezed right by when the article was published!  lol


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## baltbottles (Jan 13, 2009)

Contacting the editor is easy I was looking for an email address to the author of the story herself. I'd much rather ask her why she wrote such a one sided story instead of getting the opinions from other privy diggers. And to ask her about the statement made by one of the archaeologists about "a complete Southwest pot can go for tens of thousands of dollars," I assume in that instance they are talking about Native American pottery not post Columbian artifacts. 

  Its know that the Native American tribes of the southwest did not have any type of social bathroom and simply preferred to use the desert. And that privy diggers are simply not the looters that they want to make us out to be. You want to talk about destruction of history how about 4 city blocks in a circa 1790-1810 area dug out 50 feet to build a huge hotel using city and private money with no archaeology done on the site at all. And that is just one instance. I have countless experiences with this destruction. That one project easily wiped out 200 privies.

  Or perhaps the white washing of sites by "contract archaeologists" for hire. They like to do phase one but rarely ever find anything worth going to a phase two dig. Then after the leave we go in and dig lots of great privies while they were digging test squares in what were alleys and public right of ways. That was easily identified by late 19th century maps.

  There are a lot of good archaeologists in this country. But there are quite a few corrupt ones aswell. Same can be said about privy diggers there are good ones and ones like the one in the article that deserve what they get. If I know any kind of archaeology is being done on a site I wait until its finished before I dig. Quite often the archaeologists on the site will identify features such as privies but due to budget constraints they only dig the top 4 feet. Once they are finished and the construction begins. I will then dig on the site.

  Chris


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## Dabeel (Jan 13, 2009)

I did a search on the NY Times website using the words privy digging and there are some articles that pop up there.
 This one from 2000 demonstrates a good way archaeologists can do some productive work training teens and at the end of article it mentions how they can show off the finds in a museum and a re-creation of the era of the tavern they were excavating.

 I agree with most of you how it is very frustrating to know that most of what is uncovered by archaeologists sits in boxes in a basement somewhere....that drives me nuts!

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F01E4D91F30F931A35754C0A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=&&scp=4&sq=the%20Privy%20diggers&st=cse


 Doug


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## glass man (Jan 13, 2009)

YOU KNOW I JUST THOUGHT OF MY DAD TELLING BOUT WHEN HE WAS IN THE CCC IN THE 30S,HIM AND OTHERS HELPED ARCHEOLOGISTS UNCOVER AN INDIAN VILLIGE IN NEVADA,BEFORE IT WAS COVERED OVER BY WATER IN MAKING THE HOOVER DAM. HE SAID THINGS WERE SO WELL PRESERVED THAT THE SKELETONS STILL HAD HAIN ON THEIR HEADS AND THE BOW STRINGS WERE STILL INTACT.[WHATEVER THE BOWSTRING WAS MADE OF] WISH I COULD FIND OUT IF THIS STUFF IS IN A MUSEUM SOMEWHERE AND WHAT INDIANS THEY WERE ,HOW OLD ETC,DID THEY REBURY THE PEOPLE?NO DOUBT! I KNOW CHEROKEE SKELETONS WERE ON DISPLAY UNDER GLASS,EXACTLY AS THEY WERE UNCOVERED IN CARTERSVILLE GA. AT THE ETOWAH MOUNDS,TILL THE CHEROKEE PEOPLE RAISED HECK IN THE 1970S AND HAD THEM REBURIED AND A CEROMONY.I SAW THE SKELETONS AS A BOY AND IT WAS CREEPY! YEAH THEY IS GOOD ARCHIES AND BAD ONES.YEP TIQUE I HOPE THEY DON'T BURY US CAUSE MANY AIN'T TOO GOOD ON THE UNCOVERING PART!


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## tigue710 (Jan 13, 2009)

I tell ya what gets me angry, a bunch of grave robbers disturbing sacred burial sites to "learn" about a people their ancestors destroyed!  I dont care for archeologists at all....


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## Oldtimer (Jan 13, 2009)

HI.  I'M CHRIS HANSEN. 

 PLEASE, HAVE A SEAT RIGHT OVER THERE.....

 WOULD YOU MIND TELLING ME WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN DOING?

 I SEE... YOU WERE JUST "LOOKING".....BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE, IS IT?


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## madman (Jan 13, 2009)

> ORIGINAL: tigue710
> 
> I tell ya what gets me angry, a bunch of grave robbers disturbing sacred burial sites to "learn" about a people their ancestors destroyed!  I dont care for archeologists at all....


  right on brother!!!!!!!


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