# new soda bottle find



## andy volkerts (Nov 22, 2015)

I found a Deco style Haywards soda works Co  Contents 7 flu oz.  clear,  embossed on the bottom with H.S.W. and on back at base  added{ artificial color   citric acid.   Is anyone familiar with this brand, I figure it is from Hayward California, but am not sure.. Cannot post pics as camera is not working....Andy


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

Andy I noticed in your profile that you are from Sacramento, California, so you are probably familiar with the San Francisco bay area. The city of Hayward is about 20 miles southeast of San Francisco and is on the east side of the bay. I'm assuming the bottle pictured here is the same or similar to the one you have. It is the only example I was able to find. (More info and pictures to follow) [attachment=Haywards Soda Work..co Bottle front.jpg] [attachment=Haywards Soda Work.Deco Bottle base.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

According to the attached newspaper article, The Hayward Bottling Works was established in 1884. However, the information on this link about Simon J. Simon, who started the bottling works, says it was established in the early 1890s and that Simon operated it until his death in 1928. I have seen ads for it as late as 1930, so some of this information is a little sketchy. By the way, I looked on Google Earth and the location at 1164 B Street, Hayward, California, is now a parking lot in Hayward's commercial district.                             http://www.onlinebiographies.info/ca/alam/simons-sj.htm Newspaper Article from ... 1.  The Oakland Tribune ~ Oakland, California ~ June 29, *1910* There are a lot of newspaper ads for Hayward Bottling Works, but about 99% of them advertise Orange Crush, such as this one from ... 2.  The Hayward Semi-Weekly Review ~ Hayward, California ~ July 6, *1928* *[attachment=Hayward Soda Works...66) (1150x926).jpg] * *[attachment=Hayward Soda Works...00) (955x1150).jpg] *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

P.S. Andy Did you look closely on the heel for a makers mark, date code, and/or any patent information?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

I had to do some digging but found this. It is just a brief announcement with no accompanying article. At one point the city of Hayward was called "Haywards." Snippet From ... The Daily Record-Union ~ Sacramento, California ~ January 19, *1884* *[attachment=Hayward Soda Works...age (1150x375).jpg] * *[attachment=Hayward Soda Works...884 (1150x209).jpg] *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

P.S. According to historical accounts, the "S" in "HAYWARDS" was dropped and changed to "HAYWARD" in *1894*


----------



## hemihampton (Nov 22, 2015)

So if you had a Haywards bottle (plural) I'd guess that would be much older & valuable. Interesting. LEON.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

hemihampton said:
			
		

> So if you had a Haywards bottle (plural) I'd guess that would be much older & valuable. Interesting. LEON.



 Not necessarily. I was thinking the same thing at first but have seen post-1894 bottles that have "Haywards" on them. Even Andy's deco bottle has "Hayward's" with an apostrophe. Apparently the original 1884 Haywards Soda Works was started by a man by the name of J. A. Collins and was then taken over by S. J. Simons around 1910. This link is where I found the two Hutchinson bottles pictured, the first one of which is a J. A. Collins, and the other is a S. J. Simons. Both of them say Haywards with 's' http://goo.gl/vUkyXW [attachment=Hayward Soda Works J. A. Collins.jpg] [attachment=Hayward Soda Works S. J. Simons.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

P.S.                   Notice on the link that the S. J. Simons bottle is marked with *P.C.G.W.*                                                    Which translates to ...                  P.C.G.W. = Pacific Coast Glass Works, San Francisco, CA (1902-1925).


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

The embossing on this circa 1910 Haywards Soda Works bottle is a little hard to see, but it is marked Haywards with an 's' and S. J. Simons ... [attachment=Haywards Soda Work...t-sided bottle.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

Correction ... If this information from S. J. Simons' biography is accurate, then he apparently did take over Haywards Soda Works in the early 1890s and not in 1910. It was in 1910 that he apparently changed the name. I checked and Simons died in 1928. The original Haywards Soda Works was established in 1884 by J. A. Collins.                    The following is copy/pasted from the biography link I posted earlier ... "In the early '90s he established a bottling business in Hayward, which proved a successful venture, and he carried it on alone until about 1910, when he organized the Hayward Soda Works Company, of which he became president, remaining at the head of that business up to the time of his death."


----------



## hemihampton (Nov 22, 2015)

So how would you know if you had a original 1884 bottle? or 1884-1893. LEON


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

hemihampton said:
			
		

> So how would you know if you had a original 1884 bottle? or 1884-1893. LEON



I'm not sure it can be narrowed down to 1884-1893, but it would most likely be a Hutchinson bottle marked with J. A. Collins, and similar to the one I posted a picture of earlier. The Hutchinson era began when Charles G. Hutchinson, the son of William H. Hutchinson, a long-time Chicago, Illinois soda bottler and equipment manufacturer, patented his "Hutchinson's Patent Spring Stopper" on April 8, 1879


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

I guess the next question should be ...           How do you precisely date Hutchinson bottles made between 1879 and 1900?                     (Especially when most if not all Hutch's during this time period are not date marked?)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 22, 2015)

I got to thinking and believe the only way to distinguish an 1884 J. A. Collins Hutchinson from a later one would be to have numerous examples on hand and then study them for minute details. And even that might not narrow it down. You'd probably have to be an advanced collector of J. A. Collins bottles to even come close to figuring it out.


----------



## andy volkerts (Nov 22, 2015)

Thanks for all the info Bob. The soda water bottle that you pictured in your first post is the one I found, there is no dating whatsoever on the bottle anywhere. it is machine made so I would date it at between 1910 1930s I picked it up for 2 dollars, so I guess that was not too much! And yes Hayward is on the east side of San Francisco bay just south of Oakland and San Leandro. I also found a haywards Hutchinson on flea bay currently listed and some of the info said that the co changed hands in 1910 but still was called Haywards soda works..........Andy


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 23, 2015)

Andy I'm glad I could be of some help. I enjoy a good mystery. I've seen some of the accounts that claim Haywards Soda Works changed ownership in 1910, but I'm confident they are incorrect and that 1910 was when the name was changed to Hayward Soda Works Company. Even though I don't have any solid evidence to prove it, I'm leaning toward the Simons biography as being accurate in that S. J. Simons bought the bottling works in the early 1890s. I'm not sure of the exact date when Simons took over, but I do know he was involved at least as early as ... The Daily Review ~ Hayward, California ~ June 7, *1901* (So far this is the earliest date I have found connecting S. J. "Sam" Simons to the bottling works) *[attachment=Hayward Soda Works...01 (1150x1000).jpg] *


----------



## andy volkerts (Nov 23, 2015)

So if you are correct and 1910 is the date of the name change, that would make my bottle pre 1910 ish, which is great! that falls into one of the categories that I collect, bay area bottles that are at least 100 yrs old. Many thanks for the info, I don't know how you guys do all that research! I went online for an hour, and all I found was the hutch for sale on flea bay!............Andy


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 23, 2015)

Andy I wouldn't count your chickens just yet. Your Haward's bottle (with an apostrophe) is definitely a deco style and almost certainly was made between the early 1920s and late 1930s.


----------



## andy volkerts (Nov 23, 2015)

Oh well just 5 yrs to go, I can wait LOL..........Andy


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 23, 2015)

This publication titled ... *                          Memorial and Biographical History**                                                  of**                                     Northern California*       ... confirms that Simon J. Simons owned Haywards Soda Works at least as early as ...                                                          *  1891*                                                       Note:  I have seen his first name as Sam and Simon, and suspect Simon is correct and Sam was a nickname.                                          Link:  https://goo.gl/nAwMoX


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 23, 2015)

I realize this 1922 deco bottle patent isn't identical to the bottle in question, but its the closest style I could find and typifies the design of flavor soda bottles during the early 1920s ... [attachment=Hayward Soda Works...ottle 1922 jpg.jpg] [attachment=Haywards Soda Work..co Bottle front.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 23, 2015)

P.S.                                I'm currently researching "Simons & Clee"


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 23, 2015)

I just stumbled onto these ...                1. Article ~ The Daily Review ~ Hayward, California ~ March 3, *1899*               2. Siphon Bottle ~ Date unknown but possibly related to time of article? Note: This might be a case where the name does help date the bottle. Notice in two places on the bottle (Brand and Location) that it is spelled Haywards with an 's' Reminder: The 's' in Haywards was dropped in 1894. Hence, this siphon bottle "might" date to pre-1894 [attachment=Hayward Soda Works...899 (761x1150).jpg] [attachment=Haywards Soda Works Seltzer Bottle.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 23, 2015)

I'm copy/pasting the 1891 article for future reference in case a problem develops with the link.                                                               ~ * ~  Simon J Simons of the firm of Simons & Clee, proprietors of the Soda Works and agents for the Union Ice Company, having their office on B street, between First and Second, Haywards, supply also the towns of Dublin, Livermore, Pleasanton, Fusion, Mission, San Jose, Irvington, Decoto, Centerville, Mount Eden, San Lorenzo, Alvarado, San Leandro, etc., with products of their manufacture. Mr. Simons was born in Germany in June 1860 and came to America in 1875, first landing in New York City and coming thence by rail to Haywards. For the first several years here he followed farming and teaming and also ran a saloon about two years. He then purchased the soda works and later admitted a partner and has since managed the business successfully, building up a good and substantial trade. He is a member of the Order of the Sons of Hermann, at Livermore. He was married in Haywards June 9, 1886 to Annie Hunt and they have two children, John H and an infant son. Mr. Simons' parents were John and Annie (Neilsen) Simons, both natives of Germany; his father is now deceased.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 24, 2015)

For Future Reference ... *                                               ~  Simon Julius Simons*  ~                      1.  Oakland Tribune ~ Oakland, California ~ January 26, 1928                     2.  Hayward Semi-Weekly Review ~ Hayward, California ~ March 6, 1928 [attachment=Hayward Soda Works...28 (1120x1150).jpg] [attachment=Hayward Soda Works...928 (608x1150).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 24, 2015)

In trying to determine when the Hayward Soda Works ceased operation, I discovered that after S. J. Simons death in 1928 that his widow Annie Simons continued the business until her death in 1930. After that there is a gap where I cannot find a single reference until 1934 where there is a brief mention of the *Hayward Bottling Company *located at the same address of *1164 B Street*. I'm not certain what happened with the company between 1930 and 1934, but it appears to have been idle and possibly out of operation. I currently do not know who owned and operated the Hayward Bottling Company, nor how long it was in business. Note:  The latest date for the Hayward's Soda Works deco bottle in question is possibly 1930.  [Attachments] 1.  Annie's Obituary ~ The Daily Review ~ Hayward, California ~ October 6, 19302.  Hayward Bottling Company ~ The Oakland Tribune ~ Oakland, California ~ June 28, 1935 [attachment=Hayward Soda Works...930 (920x1150).jpg] [attachment=Hayward Bottling C...935 (1150x221).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 24, 2015)

Andy My educated guess for the date of your bottle is sometime between 1920 and 1930, which is another way of saying ...                                                *     Circa 1925*


----------



## andy volkerts (Nov 24, 2015)

Thanks for all the information Bob. I will keep the bottle as it represents a big part of Hayward's history. It is in really good condition as well. Maybe I will start to collect Deco soda bottles, as they are pretty interesting.......Andy


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 24, 2015)

If you haven't seen it already, check out this deco/designer bottle (patent) site by Digger Odell ...         http://www.bottlebooks.com/Designer%20Sodas/designer_soda_bottles.htm


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 24, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> P.S.                                I'm currently researching "Simons & Clee"



                                                    Just for the record ... The mention of Simons & *Clee *in the 1891 biography for Simon J Simons was a typo. The correct spelling is *Klee *with a 'K' for *Henry W. Klee*. There is very little information about him, but he must have been a silent partner of S. J. Simons' for a very brief period of time during the early 1890s.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 24, 2015)

I thought I'd wrap up my contribution to this discussion with this cropped close up of the 1910 picture and what might very well be Simon J Simons on the left and his son John H Simons on the right. Of course I don't know this for certain, but because the are in the center of the picture it could very well be them. Besides, the other fellas in the photo look a little bit like slackers to me. [] [attachment=Haywards Soda Work...ed (1175x1075).jpg] [attachment=Hayward Soda Works...86) (1024x825).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 24, 2015)

*                                                     Last but not least ...* http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/haywards-soda-works-california-photo-173769068  [attachment=Haywards Soda Works California.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 25, 2015)

I had the following information in my notes and thought I'd share it for a future reference in connection with how to approximately date certain bottles when there are no date codes. The earliest use of consistent date coding I'm aware of was by the Root Glass Company who started dating their bottles in 1909.                      ( So here goes, which will require at least three pages/post )                    This Haywards Soda Works, Hutchinson bottle is marked with ...   
*                             Front: *HAYWARDS / S. J. SIMONS / SODA WPRKS
*                             Back: *Blank
*                             Base: *PCGW

1  Because it has the PCGW mark for the Pacific Coast Glass Works, we know it dates to 1902 at the earliest because that's when the Pacific Coast Glass Works was founded.

2. Because it is marked with Haywards Soda Works, we know it was made before 1910. It was in 1910 when they changed the name to Haywards Soda Works *Company*.

3.  Hence, this bottle likely dates to sometime between 1902 and 1910, or *Circa 1906*


( To be continued )

[attachment=Hayward Soda Works S. J. Simons.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 25, 2015)

Next up is this ...                       Haywards Soda Works *straight-sided*, *crown-top *bottle 1.  It too has the PCGW mark on the base2.  Because it is a crown top, we know it was surely made after their Hutchinson bottle 3.  Because it has PCGW, we know it dates to no earlier than 19024.  Even though it post-dates their Hutchinson bottle, and post-dates the use of the word "Company" we still have to date it between 1902 and 1910, or *Circa 1906* http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAYWARD-SODA-WORKS-S-J-SIMONS-ANTIQUE-SODA-BOTTLE-RARE-ESTATE-FIND-/371493219556?hash=item567eb8ace4:g:~sMAAOSwcBhWU3R0 [attachment=Haywards Soda Work...ase PCGW Front.jpg] [attachment=Haywards Soda Work... PCGW Close Up.jpg] [attachment=Haywards Soda Work...CGW (1100x825).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 25, 2015)

Which brings us to this ...                   Haywards Soda Works *Company*, straight-sided, crown-top bottle 1.  Also marked on the base with PCGW2.  Because of the word "Company," we know it dates later than the previous bottle3.  Hence, it would date between 1910 and 1925, (1) because 1910 was when they changed the name to "Company" and (2) because 1925 is when the Pacific Coast Glass Works stopped using the PCGW mark. Thus dating it *Circa 1917* http://www.ebay.com/itm/HAYWARDS-SODA-WORKS-HAYWARD-CA-EARLY-CROWN-TOP-SODA-MINERAL-WATER-BOTTLE-/161691832075?nma=true&si=j5Bp1Cms2McSnAk3iwqLniCBpf8%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 [attachment=Haywards Soda Work...y Bottle Front.jpg] [attachment=Haywards Soda Work...Front Close Up.jpg] [attachment=Haywards Soda Work...se (1100x1009).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 25, 2015)

Andy I suppose you see the trend with the last three bottles in that all of them were made by the Pacific Coast Glass Works and marked with PCGW. Which indicates the Haywards Soda Works ordered a lot of bottles from that glass maker. I apologize for asking this again, but are you 100% certain that your bottle doesn't have any of the following marks? I have several PCGW bottles and on some of them the mark is extremely small and very hard to see.    [ul][*]P/C in duo-segmented parallelogram……….Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California (1925-1930). This mark was introduced in 1919, and used on ware until about 1930. Source on 1919 date: Peterson (1968:49).[*]P/C in a square……..Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California (1925-1930). This mark was used possibly as early as 1919, but was definitely in use by 1925. See other “P.C.” entries.[*]P C in a triangle……….Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, CA (1925-1930). Mark was first used in either 1919 or 1925.[*]P.C………………..Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and it’s successor Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, CA (1925-1930). The PC mark probably dates from either 1919, or 1925, and on up to 1930.[*]P.C.G.W…………….Pacific Coast Glass Works, San Francisco, CA (1902-1925). See “P.C.” marks.[/ul]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 25, 2015)

Here's the PCGW mark on a straight-sided Coca Cola bottle I have ... [attachment=PCGW Coke Bottle 002 (480x640).jpg] [attachment=PCGW Coke Bottle 001 (640x480).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 25, 2015)

P.S. For those who might be confused about using the word "Company" as a means to approximately date some of the Haywards bottles versus the lack of the word "Company" such as Andy's bottle, which is clearly marked with Haywards Soda Works without the word "Company," all I can say is that I have never, ever seen a designer/deco bottle of that particular style and shape that dates any earlier than about 1920. Ask any advanced collector and I am confident they will agree with this. So how do we explain a post 1920 bottle with Haywards Soda Works on it when the word "Company" was added around 1910? My best guess is that ol' Simon J. Simons intentionally had it designed that way in order to tie in a "new" bottle with a nostalgic name and look from the past.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 25, 2015)

Andy is going to punch me in the nose when he sees this, because I somehow lost tract of the fact that his bottle does have "*CO.*" on it. So please disregard my last post. I don't know what I was thinking when I wrote it other than to say I'm an idiot! And, no, I haven't been drinking turkey flavored wine []                                           *Happy Thanksgiving * *[attachment=Haywards Soda Works Co. Deco Bottle.jpg] *


----------



## andy volkerts (Nov 26, 2015)

Hey Bob, no nose punching, LOL,  BUT MY BOTTLE does have the triangle with pcg in it on the side of the base near the bottom under the words   Citric acid, I had to look really hard as it is faint, but it is there. So my bottle could be as early as 1919.........Only gotta wait 4 yrs now for it to fit into the 100 yr old category[]....Andy


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> [ul][*]P/C in duo-segmented parallelogram ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California (1925-1930). This mark was introduced in 1919, and used on ware until about 1930. Source on 1919 date: Peterson (1968:49).[*]P/C in a square ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, California (1925-1930). This mark was used possibly as early as 1919, but was definitely in use by 1925. See other “P.C.” entries.[*]P C in a triangle ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, CA (1925-1930). Mark was first used in either 1919 or 1925.[*]P.C ... Pacific Coast Glass Works (1902-1925) and it’s successor Pacific Coast Glass Company, San Francisco, CA (1925-1930). The PC mark probably dates from either 1919, or 1925, and on up to 1930.[*]P.C.G.W ... Pacific Coast Glass Works, San Francisco, CA (1902-1925). See “P.C.” marks.[/ul]



 Andy I'm glad you were able to find the makers mark. I had a feeling it might have one. I'm currently trying to figure out why there seems to be so much confusion about the 1919 date. Notice in the above listing where in some instances they say "probably" and "possibly." The only thing in particular I could find in connection with Pacific Coast Glass Works and 1919 is that it was in 1919 when they purchased several acres of property for a new plant. As near as I can determine they did not finish construction for the new plant until sometime after 1923. Prior to 1923 they were still operating out of their old plant. Perhaps the 1919 acquisition of property is what has been confusing researchers. I might start a new thread regarding all of this because I came across some other stuff that could give reason to rewrite some of the history in connection with the Pacific Coast Glass Works plants in the Bay area. I will let you know if/when I start the new thread. Its kinda complicated and I need to organize my notes first.                          The following links talk about the 1919 property acquisition ...  
May 1919 Publication ~ Western Can and Packer ~ Page 7

https://goo.gl/aDS4xh

"An entire new modern plant is planned
 but  construction  will  not be started for
 about a year."

          ~ * ~

Same Publication ~ Page 23

https://goo.gl/EKNLaa

           ~ * ~

[Attachment]

The San Francisco Chronicle ~ San Francisco, California ~ April 19, 1919

         *Notice where the 1919 article mentions both addresses

                      Current plant = Seventh and Irwin
                      New property = Railroad and Paul 


[attachment=Pacific Coast Glas...919 (754x1100).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

P.S. 1.  The older 7th & Irwin plant was located in downtown San Francisco 2.  The new Railroad & Paul property was located about 5+ miles south of the downtown plant


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

Andy                        I went ahead and started the new thread. Here's the link ... https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/PACIFIC-COAST-GLASS-WORKSCOMPANY-SAN-FRANCISCO-CALIFORNIA-CONFUSING-MAKERS-MARKS-m685338.aspx#685338


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

Hey, Andy Howz about checking that makers mark again. Please use a magnifying glass if possible. According to this 2010 article by Bill Lockhart, the Pacific Coast Glass Works never used the Triangle mark. Its actually an Illinois-Pacific Glass Corporation mark. Now you know what I mean about some of this stuff being confusing. I was going to save this information for my new thread (and still plan to) but I wanted to double check with you first and see about the mark on your Haywards bottle. When you check it, look close in the triangle for an ...                                     * IPG*       If your bottle was made by Illinois-Pacific Glass, then we'll have to try and re-date it.                     ( You might have to save the image first and then zoom to read it ) [attachment=Pacific Coast Glas...art (837x1100).jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

P.S.                        Here's another example of the IPG mark, plus the apparent dates  ... IPG in a triangle - Illinois Pacific Glass Corporation, San Francisco, California (c.1925-1930 or 1932) [attachment=Illinois Pacific G... San Francisco.jpg]


----------



## SODAPOPBOB (Nov 27, 2015)

Andy I just discovered Illinois-Pacific Glass Corporation also used a IP*C *mark. So please look super close and see if you can determine if its a *G *or a *C* If its a *C*, then it appears the date can be narrowed down to 1931-1932


----------



## andy volkerts (Nov 27, 2015)

Hello Bob. It appears to be IPG, the G definitely has the downward slash, like your pic The I is almost un readable, but it couldn't be anything else as there wouldn't be enough room for a P, and there is no C in the middle, now that I am using a glass it is apparent that it is IPG within a triangle with that pyramid thingy above the IPG, and just under the crown of the Pyramid. So that makes it 1925 or later, probably correct for a deco soda design. Anyways still gonna keep it.......Andy


----------

