# South Texas Calabash Flask



## Clayton J. Migl (Mar 3, 2022)

This miniature calabash flask was found in south Texas. I believe it dates from the 1850s/60s, correct? Is it pontiled? Would this bottle had been weaved with whicker? Any information helps me do a write up on this bottle.


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## hemihampton (Mar 3, 2022)

That's not Pontiled. Probably dates around 1860's to 1870's in my opinion. I usually see much bigger Bottles like Demi Johns in Wicker. BUT, That Bottle is far from my expertise, maybe some one else can chime in with better info. LEON.

p.s. welcome to the site.


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## Harry Pristis (Mar 3, 2022)

*Doesn't appear to fit the common definition of "calabash bottle."  Looks more like a "skittles bottle," but I can't tell from the two images just how inflated or compressed it is.  May be foreign-made.  Pontil scar, your dates are reasonable.*

Calabash bottles are large, gourd or pear shaped bottles (sometimes called flasks also) which were quite popular during the mid 19th century, i.e., 1840s to around 1870. The name presumably originates from the resemblance of these bottles to the hard shelled, gourd-like fruits of the tropical American "calabash tree."


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## Clayton J. Migl (Mar 4, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> That's not Pontiled. Probably dates around 1860's to 1870's in my opinion. I usually see much bigger Bottles like Demi Johns in Wicker. BUT, That Bottle is far from my expertise, maybe some one else can chime in with better info. LEON.
> 
> p.s. welcome to the site.


Thank you Leon.


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## hemihampton (Mar 4, 2022)

Harry Pristis said:


> *Doesn't appear to fit the common definition of "calabash bottle."  Looks more like a "skittles bottle," but I can't tell from the two images just how inflated or compressed it is.  May be foreign-made.  Pontil scar, your dates are reasonable.*
> 
> Calabash bottles are large, gourd or pear shaped bottles (sometimes called flasks also) which were quite popular during the mid 19th century, i.e., 1840s to around 1870. The name presumably originates from the resemblance of these bottles to the hard shelled, gourd-like fruits of the tropical American "calabash tree."




Did you see a Pontil scar? Curious?


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## sandchip (Mar 5, 2022)

Not pontiled, nor is it a calabash.  I agree that it would date in the 1860 to 1870 range.


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## nhpharm (Mar 5, 2022)

I am going to disagree on this-those flakes on the base are a "pontil", though a style more often seen on European bottles (which this probably is).  I suspect it was originally wicker covered or similar.  Age-wise I think the oldest it would be is 1870's.


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## GatesMillsGirl (Mar 5, 2022)

Clayton J. Migl said:


> This miniature calabash flask was found in south Texas. I believe it dates from the 1850s/60s, correct? Is it pontiled? Would this bottle had been weaved with whicker? Any information helps me do a write up on this bottle.
> View attachment 235246
> View attachment 235247


PRETTY - love the color.


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## DavidW (Mar 5, 2022)

I'm confused by some of the responses.  The weird "patches" or "flakes" on the base  look (to me) like some embedded glass remnants (irregular patches of hardened glass from the previous bottle being blown into the mold).  It does NOT look like an open pontil.   

Usually a real pontil mark will be (more or less) placed close to the center. Right?


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## nhpharm (Mar 5, 2022)

It is a pontil in that it is a scar from where a pontil rod was adhered to the base of the bottle.  It's not a traditional "American" tubular "open pontil" or an iron pontil, but probably falls into the "glass tipped pontil scar" category.  I've seen these on a lot of European (Italian and French) bottles, and it strikes me that they were using a pretty broad tip on the rod that crossed from base ridge to base ridge.


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## bostaurus (Mar 5, 2022)

It may have had wicker or even leather wrapping.  I have one in that general shape and very early..1830's or so, 5 inches tall, in aqua.  Definitely American. When I bought it the bottle was sown into a leather cover with the remnants of a strap.  The general consensus on another site was that it was a type  of canteen.  Unfortunately the leather was dry rotted and crumbled at the touch.  The good part was that, because of the leather, the bottle survived in mint condition.  I have a picture some where.


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## hemihampton (Mar 5, 2022)

If pontiled it's not like any I seen before, But I don't know much about Foreign made Bottles or Calabash's so possible? LEON.


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## Harry Pristis (Mar 6, 2022)

nhpharm said:


> It is a pontil in that it is a scar from where a pontil rod was adhered to the base of the bottle.  It's not a traditional "American" tubular "open pontil" or an iron pontil, but probably falls into the "glass tipped pontil scar" category.  I've seen these on a lot of European (Italian and French) bottles, and it strikes me that they were using a pretty broad tip on the rod that crossed from base ridge to base ridge.


*I agree . . . You said it as well as can be said.*


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## saratogadriver (Mar 8, 2022)

My gut is with nhpharm on this one.    I think those glass deposits constitute a "pontil" in that something was attached to that base to hold it as the neck was finished.   I'd also say European origin, which makes aging it harder than if it was a US made bottle.    They used older techniques longer than we did, often.

And I think we all agree it's not a calabash.    it's shaped a bit like one but it's not one.  

Interesting piece any way though.

Jim G


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## K6TIM (Mar 10, 2022)

Clayton J. Migl said:


> This miniature calabash flask was found in south Texas. I believe it dates from the 1850s/60s, correct? Is it pontiled? Would this bottle had been weaved with whicker? Any information helps me do a write up on this bottle.
> View attachment 235246
> View attachment 235247


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## K6TIM (Mar 10, 2022)

Clayton J. Migl said:


> This miniature calabash flask was found in south Texas. I believe it dates from the 1850s/60s, correct? Is it pontiled? Would this bottle had been weaved with whicker? Any information helps me do a write up on this bottle.
> View attachment 235246
> View attachment 235247


Hi 
The bottle is calbash shaped.The bottle bottom hasn't a pontil mark probably dates it after 1860-70's or later Check seam line to see if it goes just to the bottom of the bottle lip then it's before1904..Looks to me to have a typical taperd lip.The bottom of this bottle is called a cup bottom mold (see Historic Bottle blog) for this info.The glass looks to be natural greenish bottle glass!.
It's NOT a historic flask,but nice old bottle just the same.Probably not originally in a WICKER  covering like a demi-john,or carboy would be found
K6TIM


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## Harry Pristis (Mar 10, 2022)

K6TIM said:


> Hi
> The bottle is calbash shaped.


*No, it's not "calbash" [sic] shaped.  It is laterally compressed, with a tapering base, unlike a calabash shape.*


K6TIM said:


> The bottle bottom hasn't a pontil mark probably dates it after 1860-70's or later


*No.  The scars on the base of the flask are clearly created by separation from a glass tipped pontil.*


K6TIM said:


> Check seam line to see if it goes just to the bottom of the bottle lip then it's before1904.


*No, this is an unreliable dating approach.  In the USA, for example, some bottles were hand finished as late as 1918 when the Owens machine was fully adopted.*


K6TIM said:


> .Looks to me to have a typical taperd lip


*Typical of what?*


K6TIM said:


> .The bottom of this bottle is called a cup bottom mold (see Historic Bottle blog) for this info.The glass looks to be natural greenish bottle glass!.
> It's NOT a historic flask,but nice old bottle just the same.


*What is the significance of these observations?  I would counter that this IS an historic flask, though not an American "historical flask."*


K6TIM said:


> Probably not originally in a WICKER  covering like a demi-john,or carboy would be found
> K6TIM


*I've seen many European flasks covered in a very tight, very fine, wicker-like covering.  These flasks likely were intended for rough use, perhaps as a canteen while traveling.  My American-made amber flask was covered in such a wrapper.




 *


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