# Green glass gallon jar help



## Replays (Aug 30, 2012)

Hey everyone,

 Had this posted in the what is it section, and it was suggested I post it over here, so I am just pasting a copy of my posts:

 I found this a long time ago and just set it on a shelf because thought it was great. It has to be the crudest piece of glass I have seen and owned. Dug it out of a container over the weekend and wanted to see if theres anything to it. Green glass, a gallon, rough pontil, no seams, top off center, no doubt hand made. Guessing it's old, but hey thought the shot glass I posted yesterday was older too lol. Searched on here and around net but didn't find alot of info, probably because not searching for the right thing. Only going to post one pic here, leaving link for album at photobucket, will post more pics here if requested.

 Billy

 Photobucket album link(29 more pics): http://photobucket.com/greenjar 

 2nd post:

 I found this about 20 yrs. ago in an old barn/shed behind a burned down 100+ yr old house(house had only been gone about a year). It was on a high shelf and looked like it had been sitting there forever with a half inch of dirt/dust on it. It holds exactly a gallon of liquid, which fills it to about 3/4" from the top. That was the thing that surprised me the most I think, exactly a gallon. That and the fact it doesn't leak anywhere.


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## georgeoj (Aug 31, 2012)

Billy, Nice Jar! 
 You have not found much of a response on this one because it is often difficult to evaluate a free blown item. Not being able to see the item in person also contributes to the problem. 
 I am not an expert on early glass. Having said those things, I think that it is probably not a reproduction. My guess would be 1820  
 +/- 20 years. I probably would buy the jar as old if I came upon it in a shop or at a sale.  
 George


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## Replays (Aug 31, 2012)

Hey George,

 Thanks for the response. That's why I tried to provide so many pics in my album from different angles. I'll take 100 more pics if needed to help identify it. The pontil mark is rough on the inside and outside. And it has dimples that can be felt both inside and outside. The dimples that are pushed to the inside look and feel almost as though someone pushed pins or something through the side of the jar. I will hand it to whoever made it though if it is that old, it is exactly a gallon lol.

 Billy


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## jarsnstuff (Sep 1, 2012)

Billy, I've got to agree with George on this one.  Without handling it, you just can't be positive it's an old jar.  Sometimes it feels a little "slick", sometimes it doesn't feel as heavy as it should for the size of the jar.  It especially makes me a little dubious when you say it's a gallon jar.  Pretty unusual even for the 1800's.  Cool and crude as it looks, I wouldn't be totally surprised if I saw 50 of them at Pier One.  -Tammy


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## Replays (Sep 1, 2012)

Hey everyone,

 On the suggestion of a member here, I sent an email to Greg Spurgeon of http://www.hoosierjar.com/ .This is a copy/paste of our conversation:

 Hi,

 On the suggestion from the guys at antique-bottles.net forum I am sending you an email about a jar I have. I am only attaching one pic, but will give you the link to my photobucket album which has a total of 45 pics in it. 30 of those pics were taken inside in my lightbox, the other 15 taken outside this morn. The ones taken outside aren't as good because camera lens fogged.

 Anyway, I found this jar about 20 years ago in an old barn/shed behind a recently burned down 100+ yr old house. The jar was on the top shelf with a bunch of Ball and Atlas EZ seal jars. The thing looked like it had been sitting there for a while as it had a half inch of dirt/dust covering it. Instead of retyping everything I already posted in the forum, here's the two posts from there:

 https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Green-glass-gallon-jar-help/m-544785/tm.htm
 https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Green-glass-gallon-jar-help/m-544820/tm.htm

 Here is a link to the photobucket album: http://photobucket.com/greenjar

 I do plan on selling this, but right now I am just curious what kind of info I can find on it. Told the guys in the forum I would let them know what kind of response I got.

 Thanks for your time,

 Billy Vance
 Replays





 Hi- Thanks for your message. Most utility jars of this form and color and having an applied mouth are reproductions from the 1960â€™s and 1970â€™s. Many of which purportedly came from Mexico. There are also original 19th century examples made here, but these are usually fairly easy to distinguish based on usage wear. Hard to say from just the photos, I would need to see it in person. Either way, any unmarked jar of this type, original or repro, does not hold a great deal of monetary value. A repro 20-30 dollars, an original 75-100 dollars. Best regards, Greg





 Hey Greg,

 I figured that would be the answer. Based on my observations, there is little to no wear on the base where it contacts the shelf, so unless it sat on the same shelf and wasn't slid around for 100 yrs, I would agree that it is a reproduction. I am in middle Georgia, not sure where you are, but not sure I could put it in your hands. Are there any pics from any other angles I can take, or anything I could look for myself to solidify the dating either way? Also, can I post your answers to my questions in the forum, of course linking to your site?

 Billy






 Billy- Yes a lack of base wear would normally indicate a lack of age, especially since you can be fairly sure it was never in the ground or professionally cleaned. No problem to post information. Best wishes, Greg





 Thanks for all your help!

 Billy




 So there you have it lol, another great reproduction from Mexico. Still a great jar though with it's oddities, and I have enjoyed it's presence over the last 20 yrs., but it's time to find it a new home. 

 I have to say Thank You to Greg once again for his quick responses and help.

 Billy


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## Wheelah23 (Sep 1, 2012)

I still think it's real. It's hard to tell online through pictures but that's my gut feeling. Can we get a picture of the base?


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## Replays (Sep 1, 2012)

This is a straight down shot of base, also adding 15 more pics to album at photobucket, all of the base from different angles: http://photobucket.com/greenjar 

 I will say this...the pontil mark on bottom is on inside and outside. The one on outside has some places that are really sharp, enough to cut you. That's what threw me off the most is the sharp edges.

 Billy


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## epackage (Sep 1, 2012)

The wear to the bottom is not indicative of an 1800's utility jar, these bottles were constantly in use and handled, that being said I would expect alot more wear along the bottom edges of the jar. I'm going with a repro, still a nice looking piece of glass, and I don't know what you mean by the pontilmark being on the inside because it makes no sense to me...[]


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## Wheelah23 (Sep 1, 2012)

The pontil and awesome base pictures (nice job on those btw!) make me realize it probably is a repro after all. The pontil especially looks all wrong to me. But it's a nice looking piece and I'm sure others might fall for it as I did initially!


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## historyhunter (Sep 1, 2012)

Im not saying this is old but just sharing info which nullifies one aspect IMO.  They 1860s jar I sold last year had virtually NO wear on the bottom and was a wax sealer utility jar.


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## Replays (Sep 1, 2012)

Thanks for all the responses. A little more info on the pontil...what's shown in the pic above is a straight on shot of the bottom. Dead center is very sharp. Above that roughness and above to the left looks like part of the mark on outside, but that is actually a blob on the inside that similar to a pontil mark but is a lot smoother than whats on the outside. Attaching pic of the inside now. Best I can do for a pic, but you can see what I mean. I know this is tough without handling the jar, and I really appreciate everyone's opinions.

 Billy


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## glass man (Sep 2, 2012)

STRANGE that it was on a shelf with useable jars from  more modern times...in a barn.. seems like it woulda been in the house if a  souvenir from Mexico...people on farms worked hard and usually  bought practical things ..oh well just an opinion....JAMIE


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## Replays (Sep 2, 2012)

Hey Jamie,

 I can't believe I didn't look at it from that angle. There were around 40 other jars on that shelf, and every one of them was in mint condition. No wear or rust on bail closures, now wear to bottoms, not a scratch at all on any of them. Is something interesting to think about. 

 Billy


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## RED Matthews (Sep 2, 2012)

Repllays  When yoiu decide to sell it - let me know.  RED Matthews


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## Replays (Sep 2, 2012)

Hey Red,

 Any thoughts or input on this thing? The blob on the bottom of inside is a mystery to me. Heck, the whole thing is a mystery. You get my last email?

 Billy


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## RED Matthews (Sep 2, 2012)

Well it is unique and so different that only getting my hands on it can help me comprehend the creation.  It certainly has a lot of bottlemystery to it.  RED Matthews


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## georgeoj (Sep 2, 2012)

The 'no base wear so it must be a fake' myth has confused many people.
 If an item has legitimate base wear, that can be a good indication that the item is old.
 If there is not any base wear, the only indication is that there is no base wear. Many of the items that are found in very old buildings, sometimes untouched since their first use, have no sign of wear. I just inspected the bases of ten jars, on one shelf of my crude jar collection. Two of them have no base wear. 
 George


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## Wheelah23 (Sep 2, 2012)

Someone posted an interesting thought on one of the Facebook bottle groups a while back regarding base wear... Obviously most reusable bottles have it, but why? 

 Let's say we're handling a glass bottle today. Beer, soda, food jar, etc. When we move them, do we slide them on the table or counter or whatever? No, we pick them up to transport them. It's more convenient to avoid friction by picking the bottle up to move it. So the base isn't scraping on anything, so it wouldn't get worn. Just a thought.

 I'm still not 100% sure about this jar, especially considering where it was found. The pontil looks a little too clumsy for me, but it could just be an in-making anomaly.


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## Replays (Sep 9, 2012)

Figured I would add one last piece of info here that goes along with some of the opinions posted in this topic. I am attaching 3 more pics here. These are pics of 6 out of the 40 +/- other jars I spoke of in the beginning that were sitting on the same shelf as the gallon jar. I am only posting a pic of 6 of them because that's all I dug out of containers yesterday, but I can assure you every one of the jars that were on that shelf are in this condition. I am only posting this to kind of prove a point I guess. There is virtually no wear at all on the tops, sides, and bottoms of these jars. 

 I know this still doesn't prove anything, but it does erase the myth of no wear on bottoms of jars means they aren't old. I wish there was some way I could put this gallon jar in one of your hands so I could have that more "expert" opinion, because I am still at a loss as to the age of it. I would like to sell the jar, but don't feel comfortable doing that until I have more concrete evidence/opinions as to when it was made.

 Anyway, any opinions or thoughts welcome,

 Billy

 Edited to add: I haven't done any cleaning to these jars besides a sponge and soap and water. No tumbling, no scrubbing, nothing. Just like the gallon jar, these had about a half inch of dust/dirt built up on them.


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## Replays (Sep 9, 2012)

2


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## Replays (Sep 9, 2012)

3


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## woody (Sep 9, 2012)

I've seen someone take a new bottle and rub it against the concrete and viola!!!!!  Instant base wear. []


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 9, 2012)

> I've seen someone take a new bottle and rub it against the concrete and viola!!!!!  Instant base wear.


Thanks woody, I've been saying that for decades. Not concrete necessarily but maybe sandpaper. [][]


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## woody (Sep 9, 2012)

Kind of puts a hole in the base wear theory.


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## Replays (Sep 9, 2012)

Yeah, that was the whole point. Since the original green gallon jar had no base wear, some want to assume that it's a repro. So I posted pics of jars with No base wear that came from the exact same shelf, and they sure aren't repros. Still leaves me back at square one though. I have no idea how old this gallon green jar is lol. 

 Billy


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 10, 2012)

I pulled a flask out of the rafters in a 1730 house. I threw it out since it had no base wear, just a lot of dust. I figured it was a fake. It had like something Jared Spencer? was embossed on it []


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## Replays (Sep 19, 2012)

Back again. Figured I would add a few more pieces of info, mainly dimensions and weight.

 Height:
 11 in
 27.94 cm

 Diameter base:
 6 in
 15.24 cm

 Diameter top: 
 4.25 in
 10.795 cm

 Weight:
 3 lbs 4.55 oz
 1.49 kg

 The indention on base is about 7/8 inches deep. The weight measurement is dead on, the dimensions are all within an 1/8 inch. 

 Billy


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## JOETHECROW (Sep 19, 2012)

Hmmm, looks pretty convincing. It's a cool jar for sure.


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