# Possibly one of the earliest John Ryan bottles?



## bottlekid76

Hello,

 I just recently aquired a green John Ryan bottle that could possibly be one of the earliest and perhaps unique known examples of the soda. I was able to purchase this from a longtime collector that a friend of mine was telling me about. We went up to visit and see his great collection of early Missouri whiskeys and sodas. Along the way, he was mentioning to me about this green John Ryan that he had, and thought it was a really good one. I couldn't wait to see it because usually the most common Ryans you see are cobalt, and the green examples are very tough to find. Most are smooth based. Now mind you, i'm expecting to see the green John Ryan 1866 Excelsior Soda Works from Savannah, which is a great bottle and sought after. You can imagine the look on my face when I seen what he had! This beautiful early full graphite pontiled bold crude slugplate hammer whittled double collar tapered top John Ryan. I about fell over! I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I was spinning, trying to remember ever seeing an example like it. Nothing in my memory recalled ever seeing a Ryan that looked anything even close to it, and with so much going for it. I've seen some of the rare wild colors of Ryans in pink, strawberry, and a few others. Even those awesome examples had a totally different embossing tho. The slugplate just jumps out at you on this guy. Bold embossing and crude orange peel effect in the slugplate around the lettering. Even the slug is crude with uneven wavy edges. The whittle is heavy around the body and all the graphite remains, and it's never been cleaned. The only thing to call is an ice pick bruise on the inner side of the lip. I couldn't help but think, man i'd love to buy this bottle and would it be for sale?! The owner mentioned contacting some southern soda collectors to see if they have one or have ever seen one of these, but never got around to doing so. I know there are alot of John Ryan soda collectors, and some advanced southern soda collectors out there, and I would love to hear their input on this example. My pictures still don't do it justice as seeing it in person. I made the owner what I thought was a very nice offer on it, as I couldn't stand the thought of leaving and not having it at home! He looked at me and said he didn't really want to get rid of this bottle, but he'd sell it to me for the price I offered. I thanked him so much and was able to take this guy home and add it to my colored collection. Now I have to go work more overtime at work lol. I've taken several photos in indoor and outdoor lighting, and hope you can see some good clear pictures. I'd love to hear any comments you may have, and really would love to learn about this one from some of the advanced southern soda collectors. I searched all my books, websites, all around the web and couldn't come up with anything that even resembled it in a Ryan bottle. Another interesting note was that every Ryan i've ever seen had Augusta, Savannah, or Atlanta on the bottle. This has just the bold slugplate bearing his name, leading me to believe it could possibly be one of his earliest examples. 

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## cookie

what a super bottle !


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## JOETHECROW

WoW! no wonder you bought it! vr. unusual like you say. NICE!


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## epackage

WOW Tim, that is the nicest example of a Ryan I have ever seen, well bought !!!    Jim


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## cyberdigger

Very peculiar!!


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## Topusmc

Not listed ib the 2008 Bottle Auction Price Results.  Not listed in ANY of my bottle books anywhere.  Could this be an unknown finely seeing the light of day?  Any of you Ryan collectors ever seen this one? 

 If it was mine it would be setting right on the top shelf!

 Excellent pick up!


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## deacon_frost

nice bottle tim...did you get that from the guy im going to visit one of these days?


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## bottlekid76

Thanks so much! 

 I feel the same way Jim & James. I really like this example. Never seen a Ryan even close to looking like it. I'd sure love to know more about it.

 Hiya Brian, I didn't get it from him, but he's the one that went up there with me and was telling me about it. I had no idea it would be anything like this tho!

 ~Tim


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## edndlm

A friend of mine once made me a personalized Cure bottle by taping off the letters & burning the glass with acid & then cleaning it . It looks awesome . I hope someone has seen one or dug one before . Slugplate & letters look very unusual .


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## epackage

This may be a very stupid question but how do you know it's a Southern Ryan and not a Philly Ryan ?
       jim


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## epackage

Either way I'm guessing a $1,000 bottle all day long....[8D]


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## bottlekid76

Hi Jim,

 Actually I don't, and it could be a Philly made Ryan?

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## Road Dog

Reminds me of a Thomas Maher Bottle. Very nice!


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## bottlekid76

Wasn't all the Ryans made in Philadelphia tho?

 ~Tim


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## blobbottlebob

What a spectacular bottle Tim. Very very nice. I love the double collar, the color, the pontil, the crazy plate. Amazing and awesome. I guess I would have thought of the southern Ryan because of the first name John, but what do I know. Great bottle. It would be the finest bottle I owned (if I owned it).


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## bottlekid76

Thank you so much for the kind words Bob. My thoughts are exactly. I really wish you could see it in person, it really is an amazing example. I'm so glad to have gotten the opprotunity to have it. It seems so unusual to me to see a Ryan that so many longtime and experienced collectors have never seen. God has blessed me in the past couple years with some amazing finds. This one was in a soda collection for many, many years. The gentleman that had it didn't have the internet and was an "old school" longtime collector. I was very fortunate that he sold it to me, I know he was reluctant and had plans to keep it.

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## baltbottles

Tim,

 I hate to tell you but the bottle you bought is an outright fake. It was made with an industrial laser etching machine there were a few of these going around about 6 years ago. I believe they were traced back to a guy in Pa he also made a bunch of unique sodas from small Pa towns. That took a few collectors by surprise. I don't know if any legal action was ever taken against the guy.


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## AntiqueMeds

wow , thats frightening to hear. I was thinking it almost looked hydrofluoric acid etched but not quite. We have machinery where I work that could probably do something like that. Is there any documentation of the earlier fakes?


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## sandchip

Balt, I'm not gonna say you took the words right out of my mouth, 'cause I wasn't sure how it was done, but my gut said fake soon as I saw the first picture.  I really hate it because, as a Georgia boy, I was so excited for you, BK76, as I read your story leading up to the photos.  Man, I'm sorry, and I hope you can get your money back.


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## epackage

> ORIGINAL:  baltbottles
> 
> Tim,
> 
> I hate to tell you but the bottle you bought is an outright fake. It was made with an industrial laser etching machine there were a few of these going around about 6 years ago. I believe they were traced back to a guy in Pa he also made a bunch of unique sodas from small Pa towns. That took a few collectors by surprise. I don't know if any legal action was ever taken against the guy.


 Uh OH !!!


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## baltbottles

Matt,

 There was a small article published in a now defunct bottle magazine about these fakes and I got a chance to see one of the Pa squats and this bottle is obviously made using either the same or a very similar technique. There has also been quite a bit of discussion on one of the British bottle forums. They have had a rash of colored embossed Codd bottles being faked in a similar way recently.

 Chris


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## bottlekid76

Wow, that hurts. You guys really think it is?

 ~Tim


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## sandchip

Another thing is that I don't remember ever seeing Helvetica used in any early bottles or advertisements (the "R" is the giveaway here).  It's probably the most popular sans serif font used in modern times and is in the basic font package with any type of computer driven lettering machinery, so that would be another red flag in itself.


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## cyberdigger

I was puzzled by the font style of the embossing.. just doesn't look 1850ish.. can you return it?


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## baltbottles

Tim,

 I am 100 percent sure the bottle was a plain 1850s Philadelphia made soda that using some kind of modern Machine Tool embossing was cut into the surface of the bottle. Then the bottle was likely tumble polished to remove evidence of this altering.

 Also real slug plates are not set into the body of the bottle like that. They usually end up very close to flush with the rest of the surface of the bottle. And a small seam forms around the edge of the slug plate which is raised like other embossing on the bottle.

 Chris


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## Plumbata

I dunno about a laser, as the work looks mechanically effected due to the chipping, roughness, etc. but it could have been done by a laser, and then tumbled to give the whole bottle an even superficial texture. Sadly, the first thing I thought after looking at the picture for about 5 seconds was that it is a fake. A few more seconds confirmed the suspicion. Scrolling down and seeing the responses further corroborated it. My heart sunk for your sake.

 I really really hope you can get your money back, and am sorry to be another bearer of the bad news. [&o]


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## epackage

[][][]


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## bottlekid76

I sure am no expert, and have no idea. I'm not saying it couldn't be I guess after reading what you are saying. I'm not experienced in that area enough to know. I would like to see another example of one that has been faked to compare it to before I could make a definate decision about it tho. One thing that puzzles me about that is if one was to do this, why wouldn't they use an essentially mint bottle, instead of one with an ice pick bruise in the inside lip?

 ~Tim


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## epackage

I am humbled by the knowledge on this sight, I am saddened for Tim and hope he can return it and I'm happy we are all getting an education here.....Jim


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## cyberdigger

Artificial authenticity ..what hath man wrought...?


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## sandchip

The icepick bruise would tend to make the fake look more authentic.  I checked when the Helvetica font was designed:  1957, about a century after the bottle was blown.


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## baltbottles

Tim,

 I don't have a pic of any of the fakes but. If you are not sure go and send the bottle to one of the big bottle auction houses. And they will tell you the same thing I have. Pontiled sodas are my main collection and I have handled more good sodas then most people on this forum. All I can say is everything about the embossing is wrong.

 Chris


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## bottlekid76

Well if that's what it is then it's a hard lesson learned. I doubt it would be returnable. I guess i'll have to just keep it on the shelf and admire it. Maybe one day i'll see an example of one of the enhanced bottles you have mentioned. Thanks guys

 ~Tim


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## Road Dog

Never even paid attention to that font , but once you mentioned it I can see it now. Sharp folks on here. Might be a good thing to put in the scam and fraud section?


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## blobbottlebob

I am so sorry Tim! It is a stunning bottle and an even more bzazen scam. Everything that I have used to authenticate a bottle is present. It looks old. The pontil seems real - it even has graphite in it. I have never seen anything like that faked. Everything about the lip says early. The whittle and the the pry marks - consitant with age. But to take an old bottle and modify it with new technology!!! Now that is taking fraud to a whole nother level. This guy is one heck of a scoundrel. I think you should contact him and tell him that experts have told you it is not authentic. Explain your findings and ask him if the police around there investigate fraud cases. Maybe that would make him consider a refund. (Unless you bought it for ten bucks - then just call it a lesson learned). But if you paid five hundred (or something), someone has GOT to stop this guy.

 If it makes you feel any better, I would not have known. I have seen early bottles with that square plate and I would have thought that it was not only possible but entirely likely that it was original. Man, this gets my goat! That guy was either duped as bad as you (which seems unlikely because he was telling you he's had it for years and years) or he is a total slimebucket.


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## KBbottles

Dude id do everything i can to get my money back if that happened to me... And im surprised such a well-versed collector wouldn't have figured out this was a fake.  Regardless, i would really try.  I wouldnt want that thing on my shelf reminding me of my mistake... But thats just me lol


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## bottlekid76

The only thing I know for sure is that the guy I bought it from, moved here to this area in the mid 80's from Pennsylvania. Apparently there is a big or famous yard sale that many people go to somewhere there. Tons of people set up and it has anything and everything, not just antiques. Some of you from the area may know what it is? Anyhow, he bought it there at that time. That's really all I know. I do know the gentleman I bought it from definatly (like me) wouldn't have considered it a fake and sold it to me. He's a pretty good guy and honest. He was fooled also i'd say if it is the for sure the case. So if it is indeed what Chris is saying, I wouldn't blame him. I definatly wasn't expecting that response tho!

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## RICKJJ59W

> ORIGINAL:  baltbottles
> 
> Tim,
> 
> I hate to tell you but the bottle you bought is an outright fake. It was made with an industrial laser etching machine there were a few of these going around about 6 years ago. I believe they were traced back to a guy in Pa he also made a bunch of unique sodas from small Pa towns. That took a few collectors by surprise. I don't know if any legal action was ever taken against the guy.


 
 I thought that embossing looked a little to neat and crisp. 
    It's a shame Kid.I would hunt that bum down.


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## blobbottlebob

> mid 80's from Pennsylvania


 Tim. I am no expert on technology but I'm guessing this thing was made well after the 80s. Maybe I'd believe six years ago - like Chris (Baltbottles) mentioned. If he says he bought this in the 80s, then he IS pulling something.


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## rockbot

the first thing I noticed was the font too. Way to modern. you would think that someone going through all that trouble of making a fake would take the time to research the letter style of the time. Thats what I like about old glass. Old font, oh and color and whittle oh hell, I just a bottle head!


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## AntiqueMeds

just something to consider, 
 If at some point you are convinced 100% that this is a fake could you do something to ensure this bottle doesnt continue to float around the collector community? I'm not implying that you would resale it but these things have a way of getting back into the market place when collections are disposed of. They are like landmines waiting for someone else to step on them. You might consider permanently marking it on the back with an engraver or something.

 I think you can write off losses like this on your taxes if you are able to itemize.


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## edndlm

I left a message for the guy who made my personalized cure bottle but doubt he made it because every one he ever made had crazy embossing with the person's own name on it except for one local stout bottle . He did such an awesome job on that a 40 year plus well known collector offered $ 2500.00 for it ! Eventually he told the redfaced collector it was a fake & gave it to him ! I was hoping The John Ryan was real but slugplate ; lettering ; etching : depth didn't look kosher to me & I didn't want to insult or panic anyone !


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## AntiqueMeds

I did find some references to codd bottles modified with Flojet machines. These are what we use at work. They use an abrasive in a water jet and they will cut metal, glass, or virtually anything. They could definately cut a panel like that in a bottle.


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## bottlekid76

I too think that would be the right thing to do Matt.

 I want to post some more photos so maybe you can see it better. I really thank you guys for the input. It would have never (and didn't) cross my mind that it wouldn't be genuine.


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## bottlekid76

That's ok edndlm, I appreciate everything everyone has said. I for sure wanted to know more about it, and I got that! If indeed, you would think it would possibly be costly or time consuming to do so. With all the trouble, it's odd for it to end up in a yard sale too...

 It's an interesting discussion, and if fake indeed, I promise it wont get out on the market. Not without being marked. One that would be a great show and tell to unaware pontiled soda collectors as myself. No one will take a loss again on it, that is for sure.

 All the best,
 Tim


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## Plumbata

Looking at it again, I highly doubt it is the product of a CNC-esque milling machine or laser cutter, but can't say for sure because I haven't seen anything else like this produced by the devices baltbottles mentioned. It looks hand-done using dremel type tools and the high-speed miniature jackhammer things that professional preparers of rocks use to chip matrix from fossils, and maybe a sandblaster, followed by a tumbling. The upward pointing arm of the "N" in "JOHN" is skewed though, which is peculiar.

 Looking at the letters you can see how they are placed crookedly, as if they were adhesive mailbox letter stickers that the forger stuck on there and then cut around. The bottle could have also shifted while being machine-milled but it has the rough, forged-by-hand look to me. I think a computer guided machine would do a more uniform job.

 If it wasn't made by a CNC-type machine then it stands to reason that it was created many years ago and the fellow you got it from bought it when and where he claimed he did without knowing it was a fake. I would find it hard to believe that he wouldn't have figured it out after 20 years though, especially if he is an advanced collector. I collect local stuff and have never owned an IP soda, and it was immediately obvious to me that it was not real. You would think the seller would have figured it out. Maybe that is why he was willing to sell it at a price you were willing to pay.


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## AntiqueMeds

just for comparison here is a typical early slug plate chris uploaded in an previous post...

 A difference to me is the way the letters are formed , they appear carved out of the glass on the Ryan where on this one they seem more molded from a cut slug plate.


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## Plumbata

I guess it depends what you paid for it. If he sold it for 50 or 100 bucks you can be certain he knew it was a fake and was just trying to unload it. The John Ryan bottles are pretty well known even to to me so he would certainly know that such a bottle would be worth more than that. Were it assumed to be real then as a long-time collector that fellow would have known a decent price to charge and the higher price could point to innocent ignorance, but on the other hand he could just be a soulless scammer. I don't want you to divulge what you paid, it is just something to think about.


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## bottlekid76

Here's this one to help compare....


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## cyberdigger

We'd all love to know! If I were you, however, I'd keep the forum in suspense for a while.. []


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## Digswithstick

Wow that sucks Tim ! Been reading about acid etching glass ,going to try it on it slicks to make for gifts (will only do personalizing) saw a forum post on "100 uses for bottles "or something .Wonder if it was acid etched and tumbled ,if so could have been done in 80' s, one way it is done is with adhesive stencils (fits the detective work by sharp folks here) and brushing on acid.Strange that more info or bottles  is not available ,maybe the faker only did a few to avoid getting caught .Thanks for the wake up call !


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## Plumbata

The small chips all over the raised parts of the area in question point to mechanical alteration, not chemical, and the depth is quite significant; it would take a long time to acid etch that with such _relative _regularity. Your excellent suggestion bring up the good subject of the fantasy seltzer bottles, which have probably caused many 10s of thousands in damage to the hobby. Some people are schmucks. []


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## Sodasandbeers

I hope this is just an old example of a faked bottle and that someone is not starting up this fraud again.  A number of "unique" bottles from Chester County and the Coal Regions of Pennsylvania turned up about 12 to 15 years ago with this same technique.  Collects in these areas were aggressive and to acquire an unlisted example was quite a coup.

 These fakes are identifiable in that the letters are usually too wide and they line up with the surface of the bottle.  The area in the plate was eaten away and has the tell tale pebbled effect behind the lettering.  Truly embossed bottles' embossing is raised above the surface of the bottle.  I had two friends burned by these fakes and one got his money back.  The other could not accept it was a fake and still has it in his collection.


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## bottlekid76

Thanks for the input guys. It does appear that the lettering is the same height of the surface of the bottle Tod. Looking more and more like I was indeed taken by it. When Chris posted that info my heart sank, but i'd much rather know the truth than for me to be unaware or ignorant and showing it to friends as genuine. I gave what I thought was a decent price for it having the bruise, and a Ryan i'd sure never seen before. I didn't get slammed terribly on it, but enough no one for sure would want to lose out on buying a bottle that wasn't the real deal. I guess I could chalk it up to a pretty bad night at the casino lol

 ~Tim


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## CALDIGR2

My first observation of the lettering style told me that something was seriously wrong with. Thanks for confirming my suspicions, but I feel sadness for your being taken by this obvious thief. Old bottles, especially IP sodas, DO NOT have clean, squared off letters. It was far too obvious to me, but for the seller to pass it on to you as "the real deal" in unconscionable.  He knew exactly what he was doing and should be held accountable for his actions.


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## surfaceone

Hello Tim,

 Big bummer, man! I am sorry if it is indeed a fake. I am constantly amazed at the level of knowledge, keen eyes, and expert institutional memory on this Forum.

 It certainly looks unlike the Ryans I've seen photos of.







 "JOHN RYAN / 1867 / ATLANTA / GA
 Ryan only had a branch in Atlanta during 1867, and very few bottles were produced." 






 "JOHN RYAN / EXCELSIOR MINERAL WATER / SAVANNAH, GA. / 1859
 Rare cobalt Ryan with tent style top (usually come with blob style top)." Both from Reggie's Soda Hall of Fame.

 You might contact Charles Matzen or Bill Baab, or, perhaps Russ Butler, author of, â€œSavannah Sodas.â€






 "7" amber blob soda embossed "JOHN RYAN / 1866 / SAVANNAH, GA. / CIDER" sold $255 on eBay." From.




From.


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## coboltmoon

Thank you very much for sharing this bottle.  I have never seen such good photos of this type of alteration.  I would never have known it or another like it was not original.  

 It is easier to spot a fake if you know they have reproduced/altered an item and what to look for to tell the difference from a real one.


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## glass man

BILL BAAB IS DEF. THE MAN TO GO TO!! VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT SHOUTHERN BOTTLES..PLUS HE HAS A NET WORK OF FRIENDS THAT IF HE DID NOT HAPPEN TO KNOW THEY WOULD! HE IS A VERY KIND HELPFUL PERSON AND I AM SURE HE WOULD LOVE TO HEAR THE STORY....I SURE HOPE IT DOES TURN OUT TIO BE FOR REAL....THERE ARE SOME JOHN RYAN PHILIDEPIA BOTTLES...SAME GUY...DIFFERENT MARKET...JAMIE


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## Stardust

How very sad, your loss taught us all a valuable lesson ...... *


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## Jim

Sorry to hear about this, Tim. The embossing font caught my eye right away as looking very modern. I was 99% sure that something was not right.

 I had not heard anything about these altered early sodas before. Being a collector of early central PA bottles, I'm very glad that this was brought up. If the bottle you bought was "embossed" with an obscure name and "LEWISTOWN, PA", and offered to me, it could have gotten ugly. While I would have been extremely suspicious of the bottle, there is the chance that the one-in-a-thousand "What if it really is..." could have gotten the better of me and cost me a lot of cash. That would have been bad for me, and REALLY bad for the seller, I would make sure of that.

 As a collector of some very rare PA sodas, I would like to thank Chris and Tod for mentioning the other bottles that were altered in this method. It would be easy for many serious collectors of rare local bottles to get burned by these things. If any of these were "made" for towns in my collecting area, I will now know with 100% certainty when I see one, and will have no reservations about making it very publicly known for what it is. Thank you guys very much.  ~Jim


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## bottlekid76

It's definatly something I had no idea existed. Even when seeing it and looking at it first hand, never crossed my mind it was enhanced. If anyone ever finds photos of some of these types of bottles that were made, i'd love to see photos of them. I'm glad to know this tho, even being a painful lesson. It's a shame and hurts our great hobby. 

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## appliedlips

Wow, I certainly feel for you Tim. This is an abomination, I would be very upset. I think you should display this at shows to educate other collectors.

         Edndlm, Do you have a picture of your cure? I'd love to see it posted, I've seen J.W.s and it is absolutely hilarious.


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## earlyglasscollector

As a trained graphic designer and typographer, that lettering font is Helvetica or one of the numerous copies. Helvetica was designed in1957. Nothing like it existed before that, so undoubtedly a modern addition to the bottle. Being from UK I have also experienced much of the flowjetted items and pretty sure this is not one of those examples, which have been finished off much more convincingly than this, but still (fortunately) themselves suffer from similar giveaway details that are easy to spot. 
 Sorry that you have been cought out like this, and it is very much a case that we are all guilty of seeing what we want to. However,  I think everyone will agree that the signs, although not initially obvious, when pointed out, are fairly easy to spot in any further attempts at this sort of deceipt. it is up to all of us, the forums and the magazines to educate everyone as quickly as possible so that these attempts can be nipped in the bud.
 egc  www.earlyglass.com


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## sandchip

Provided there is a way to control the heat issues, sandblasting over a computer cut stencil film, then tumbling is another possibility.  This might explain the chipped edges on the letters which is common when the stencil film edges lift during blasting.


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## bottlekid76

I talked to my friend that went up there with me, and I was mistaken about when the guy moved to this area from Pa. Originally I thought he said they moved here in the mid-80's but that must have been a diffrent conversation. He moved here from there in 2000, so highly likely this was done sometime in the 90's. We're going to the St. Louis show in March, and planned on bringing it with me to show other collectors there. If anyone makes that show it would be great to meet some of you.

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## earlyglasscollector

...oops sorry guys, didn't read all the posts and only just noticed somebody already identified the Helvitca typeface that I referred to.
 egc   www.earlyglass.com


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## sandchip

> ORIGINAL:  earlyglasscollector
> ...oops sorry guys, didn't read all the posts and only just noticed somebody already identified the Helvitca typeface that I referred to.
> egc   www.earlyglass.com


 
 Ain't no problem.  Glad I'm not the only letterhead out there.


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## earlyglasscollector

> ORIGINAL: sandchip
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ORIGINAL: earlyglasscollector
> ...oops sorry guys, didn't read all the posts and only just noticed somebody already identified the Helvitca typeface that I referred to.
> egc   www.earlyglass.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ain't no problem.  Glad I'm not the only letterhead out there.
Click to expand...

 I like that..."letterhead"...must use that myself over here![]
 egc  www.earlyglass.com


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## RED Matthews

Well Tim, I have studied all this over twice, and I am proud of the responses and advise.  But if I were you, I would spend some time letting some others examine the bottle.  It would be very expensive to create this slug plate on a bottle by reducing the bottles surface.  The slug plate shows being recessed in the mold to create the thickness of the lettering.  The lettering being faced with the same surface as the bottle.  Go slow on this one.  If you want to contact me, you can use:
 <bottlemysteries@yahoo.com>   RED Matthews


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## bottlekid76

Thanks so much Red. I appreciate it. I definatly want other collectors to see this example. I'm still confused about it. I respect many of the well experienced collectors that have had all the input on this bottle. Many of them have had far more experience and knowledge than I do on bottles that have been altered. Then there's the story with the ones mentioned that were made up in Pa, but I have yet to see anything to compare it too. I'd sure love to, and maybe will get the chance eventually. One thing i'd really like is for collectors to see it in person and talk about their thoughts on it. The font style that has been talked about, along with the lettering being the same height as the rest of the bottle sure points to what has been stated. This bottle aggravates me lol

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## glass man

WILL TAKE A PHOTO COPY OF YOUR BOTTLE WITH ME TO THE ROME GA. BOTTLE SHOW FRI. AND SAT. IF I DON'T FORGET....SHOULD BE SOME ONE THAT CAN GIVE SOME INFO THERE FOR SURE! JAMIE


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## bottlekid76

Great Jamie,

 Please let me know if you happen to find out any info.

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## rlynch

I agree with the fake theory - sad people are doing this when they try to pass them off as original.


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## gotthefever

Can't believe that anyone would think that bottle is authentic in any way shape or form after looking at it for a minute or two


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## cyberdigger

I like to stare at it and try to figure out how the mold could accommodate such embossing...  [8D]


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## epackage

I'm pretty sure it's 100% real and only a moron would think otherwise...


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## bottlekid76

Oh no, not that bottle again! lol

 Yeah i'm glad it's gone. I traded it back to the original owner for another bottle. He's still got it.

 I just started getting into pontiled porters back when I got that bottle. It's funny that when I first bought it from him, I didn't look very close at the embossing. In fact not until Chris opened my eyes to it, was when I really figured out what I had. Overall it was a really good lesson learned for me.

 ~Tim


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## AntiqueMeds

I hope someone accidently backs a cement truck over it...


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## Lordbud

So glad I collect low end bottles. Got all my good ones back in the day when they were cheap. The dollar's worth just about nothing now. Don't count on the dollar ever increasing in value.


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## baltbottles

> ORIGINAL:  Lordbud
> 
> So glad I collect low end bottles. Got all my good ones back in the day when they were cheap. The dollar's worth just about nothing now. Don't count on the dollar ever increasing in value.


 

 I think we will be okay as long as the rest of the world keeps accepting our worthless money. But just to be safe I suggest investing in a sturdy wheelbarrow tote all your inflateo dollars to the store to buy a loaf of bread.....

 Chris


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## Flasks

edndlm said:


> A friend of mine once made me a personalized Cure bottle by taping off the letters & burning the glass with acid & then cleaning it . It looks awesome . I hope someone has seen one or dug one before . Slugplate & letters look very unusual .


I've never seen such perfectly formed letters in any slug-plate bottle. Even in more evenly formed letters in many slug-plated bottles I've seen, the letters were more rounded than flat. The lettering on that bottle appears to have been formed by a draftsman. Another point that causes a bell to go off is the color and depth of the pontil. It's a beautiful bottle and I hope for the buyers sake that at least one other can be discovered. One of a kind, especially where the object was mass produced, is rare to find, and the question of "is it real" always is in question.


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## hemihampton

I think the Pontil is original & legit, it's the slugplate & embossing that is fake, everything else is real. LEON.


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