# What is a Kick Up?



## Ryan (Jun 23, 2004)

No picture to go with this question, but I was wondering why some bottles have what some people call kick ups? I have a couple of these with deep kick ups and am curious about them. Are these freeblown? Can a kick up be called a type of pontil?

 Thanks,

 -Ryan


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## Humabdos (Jun 23, 2004)

I think most where wine bottles. The kick up was for  the top of a bottle to fit into for shipping or packing.  Thats all I know and I read that tonight! lol[&:]
 Glen


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## Ryan (Jun 23, 2004)

That's interesting, what a novel way to save room in the shipping box!

 Thanks for the tidbit...

 -Ryan


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jun 23, 2004)

Hey Ryan, one of a kickup's main function is to catch sediment. They are predominant in wines but also some food stuff bottles (such as oils). Hope this helps,  Kelley


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## Harry Pristis (Jun 24, 2004)

Ryan . . .
 Here is a link to an earlier thread which deals with pontil scars, kick-ups, etc.
https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m_3325/mpage_1/key_kick%2Dup/anchor/tm.htm#3364

 Glen . . .
 Where did you read that bottle-tops were nested in kick-ups for shipping?!  That is a counterintuitive notion, in my estimation.

 ----------Harry Pristis


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## Humabdos (Jun 24, 2004)

Hi Harry. 
 I read that on page 4 of Hugh Clevelands bottle book called  Bottle Pricing Guide. 
 Up dated 2004.[&:]

 I'm sure it serves more than one porpoise.

 Glen


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## flasherr (Jun 24, 2004)

Main Entry: counÂ·terÂ·inÂ·tuÂ·iÂ·tive
 Pronunciation: -in-'tÃ¼-&-tiv, -'tyÃ¼-
 Function: adjective
 Date: 1955
 : contrary to what one would intuitively expect 
 - counÂ·terÂ·inÂ·tuÂ·iÂ·tiveÂ·ly /-lE/ adverb

 Wow that is a big word for a simple boy like me I had to look it up to see what it meant. I always figured the kick up was to cheat you out of some of the contents. Now days they will change the shape or size of a product and actually give you less for your money and most people never even notice. Im not only learning bottles here im learning big words lol cant wait to use it on some one lol
 Brian


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## David E (Jun 24, 2004)

Everyone  forgot to mention that a kickup is also for bottle strenght.
 Dave


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## Harry Pristis (Jun 24, 2004)

Well, Glen, I would argue with Cleveland about the "nesting" notion.

 Can you imagine any reasonable configuration where wine bottles are stacked on top of one-another in a single crate for shipment?  

 Typical wine bottles are nine to twelve inches tall.  They are, to this day, packed for shipping upright, usually in a 3x4 arrangement.  (They may be stored for long periods on theirs sides to keep the cork moist.)

 For example, Champagne bottles on the Bertrand (which sank in 1865) were packed one-dozen to the box.  Champagne bottles are a good choice for a mind-experiment: they have a very prominent kick-up, and tons (literally) of them have been shipped.

 Let's say that the average weight of a 19th century Champagne bottle is 2 pounds (I just weighed several).  The weight of a quart (the volume of the Bertrand Champagne bottles) of wine is about 2 pounds (based on the weight of water).  That is four pounds before adding the weight of the wooden crate.  

 That means that a crate of 12 bottles of this Champagne would weigh about 50 pounds!  Do you think that a second row of bottles in that crate was ever feasible?  Remember, these crates were all moved by hand -- no forklifts! 

 <><><><><><

 Brian . . . Don't go usin' the big words you learn here on another simple country boy!  Instead of being impressed with your vocabulary, he's liable to figure you're putting on airs.  There's a lot of anti-intellectualism out there, so don't use words that cause resentment-born-of-envy among the other country boys.  Two-syllable words are safest when talking with simple country boys.

 --------------Harry Pristis  []


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## Ryan (Jun 24, 2004)

Thanks to everyone for all the help...

 -Ryan


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## flasherr (Jun 24, 2004)

Uhhhh Harry what did you mean by that LOL[][]. I would have put that same sentance as "id have to disagree it dosnt seem logical," IM pretty simple and easy going IM not an OLE boy running around bare footed in overalls (no offense to anyone that meets that description lol) But I can get excited over an Acl soda bottle I don't have at a cheap price. That is what I love about this forum the difference in people and back grounds and taste.
 Brian[][]


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## Humabdos (Jun 24, 2004)

Hummmm, 

 I heard the same thing as Hugh said on the Antique Road show that they where packed in crates laying on their sides packed in saw dust to keep them form breaking. The tops where nestled in the kick up to save space and keep the box size down to 22" or 3 1/3 hands. This was the ideal size for maximizing ship loads, I believe the Romans invented it over 3000 years ago.[8D] Also 50 pounds wasn't nothing back then!  I've seen a 120 pound Filipino load  a ship with 200 pound sacks of rice[]
 Glen


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## David E (Jun 24, 2004)

I would not marriage my bottles unless I had straw or                                                something to seperate them. I still say it was for strenght, as any bublies like champayne and a good wine cause pressure on bottle as well as the cork. Note the thickness of those bottles (and they are heavy) My opion from reading it somewhere.
 Dave


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## IRISH (Jun 25, 2004)

The few old cases I've ever seen held 12 bottles sitting upright.  I think the kick-up was more for sediment as someone posted above,  beer bottles used here up to about the 1910's (often called champagne's) also had a deep kick-up presumably for the same reason.


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## Oldtimer (Jun 25, 2004)

How about disestablishmentarianism?[]



> ORIGINAL:  flasherr
> 
> Main Entry: counÂ·terÂ·inÂ·tuÂ·iÂ·tive
> Pronunciation: -in-'tÃ¼-&-tiv, -'tyÃ¼-
> ...


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## flasherr (Jun 25, 2004)

The first online dictionary I looked at didn't have it in there. I don't want to look totally stupid but the definition is almost as confusing as the word itself lol. I think Im gonna start a new discussion called word for the day lol.

 disestablishmentarianism 

 dis`es`tab`lish`men`taÂ´ri`an`ism
 n. 1. The doctrine or political position that advocates abrogating the establishment of a church as the official state religion.
 Prior to the Puritans, very few earlier believers contended for any form of disestablishmentarianism.

 There is always someting interesting here
 Brian


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## Ryan (Jun 27, 2004)

Some bitters bottles also have kick ups... I know I have a couple... []


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## bearswede (Nov 27, 2004)

Hey...

 How about:

 "antidisestablishmentarianism"...?

 Now, there's a word...

 PS... I always thought the deep kick-up in champagne bottles was for strength, the curved bottom disipating the pressure caused by the carbination...

 Ron


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