# Ever seen a round bottom Hutch?



## jays emporium (Apr 28, 2010)

I've never heard of one until now.  It is embossed RISCHE'S.  I suspect it is English just because of the round bottom but I don't know if they even used Hutchinson stoppers over there so I don't really know where it is from.  An unusual combination in any case.


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## celerycola (Apr 29, 2010)

That's a rare 1880's Texas Soda. Ulrich Rische was the son of German immigrants who migrated to San Antonio where Rische operated a bottling plant for forty years. 

 Another early Texas round bottom was used by Star Bottling Works in Houston. There were a lot of other American round bottoms from the 1850's on.


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## blobbottlebob (Apr 29, 2010)

Very nice bottle - thanks for showing it. The justification I've always heard for round bottom bottles was to keep the cork from drying out. (If you can't stand the bottle up, moisture always stays on the cork). Obviously, dry-rotting wouldn't have been a problem for a hutchinson stopper (which used a rubber type of seal). Therefore, this bottle has a weird little mis-match of the technologies available at the time. Cool.


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## jays emporium (Apr 29, 2010)

Dennis,
 Thank you so much for that information.  I'm supposed to be a Texas bottle expert and didn't know that.  Shame on me.
 There were other Texas sodas in the collection but also other foreign bottles so I did not know where the round bottom Hutch could be from.  I'll see if I can find any information on Riche from SA.  Do you have any links about that company?
 What you have told me makes the difference in that being a $10. bottle and a $100.+ bottle.  Thanks again.
 Jay


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## celerycola (Apr 29, 2010)

Hi Jay,

 I've been researching sodas for forty years and I 'm not an expert. Between that and Graduate School in Archaeology I've learned some research tricks. 

 Do a Google search on "riche's bottling" in quotes. Then try "riche bottling." After Google search Yahoo which will give you a different mix of results. New information is being published online every day so searching again in a month may give you new information.

 Do you have any information on Wells Bottling of Galveston circa 1900? Did the Wells have any other plants in Texas before they opened Big 4 Bottling in Waco in 1907? Do you know anything of their Dr. Pepper imitator drink called Deacon Brown?

 Have you heard of Celery Koke sold by Tony Giarraputo in Dennison circa 1906? How about the Koke Company of Texas in Dallas?

 I have a lot of other Texas questions but am not home at my main computer to get to my research. Any help you can provide on the above would be much appreciated.

 Dennis


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## grime5 (Apr 29, 2010)

i was looning through the bottles i bought the other day and think i remember seeing a decon brown dr.pepper bottling co.bottle.i think it was an embossed taller maybe 9oz bottle.is that the one your thinking about? later greg


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## jays emporium (Apr 29, 2010)

I found documentation of Rische's Bottling Works in San Antonio in the late 1800's, owned by Ulrich Rische.  Found it on Google in a book titled "Texas and Texans".  That is enough proof for me that the bottle is from San Antonio, especially since there was another San Antonio blob top soda in the same collection.
 I am familiar with the Star Bottling Works Houston torpedo soda but never heard of a San Antonio round bottom before, or any round bottom Hutchinson for that matter.
 Wells Steam Bottling Works in Galveston produced the famous "cave man" Hutch.  I don't know of any other locations for Wells.  And I don't know anything about the Koke bottles you asked about.  Send me a list of your Texas questions and I'll try to get some information at the Houston bottle show.
 Jay


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## athometoo (Apr 29, 2010)

im so jealous , you lucky dog .


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## athometoo (Apr 29, 2010)

*in 1880 san antonio had 4 bottling plants . hope it helps    sam*
*SOFT-DRINK INDUSTRY*. The Texas soft-drink industry dates from 1839, when Dr. Thomas Mitchell, an English physician living in Houston, operated an apothecary with a soda fountain from March until his death on October 1. Carbonated water had bubbled from springs in Europe since Roman times. During the eighteenth century, scientists experimented with "fixed air" and produced "aerated waters." Some of them used bicarbonate of soda in their experiments, and the term "soda water" became ensconced in the English language. By 1810 New York City had "soda fountains," where proprietors dispensed artificial "mineral waters" for therapeutic purposes. Flavored soda water, which developed with the rise of the ice industry, was available in apothecary shops, but bottled soda water was an expensive product. Sailing ships took ice from northeastern states to New Orleans in 1820 and later to Houston, and in 1838 a Houston newspaper noted that ice sold for 50 cents per pound. In 1850 Texas had none of the sixty-four bottling plants in the nation. The first notice of a soda-water manufacturer in Texas was issued in 1866, when the Houston City Directory listed J. J. C. Smith's establishment as a "mineral water manufactory." In the 1870 census, Galveston and Brownsville reported "manufacturers of mineral and soda water." Victoria and Austin had two ice-making machines. Texas had one of the four ice plants in the nation. In 1880 Texas had eleven bottling plants: four in San Antonio, two each in Galveston and Austin, and one each in Houston, Dallas, and Mexia. In 1890 Texas had forty-two soda-water plants, plus five unspecified bottlers and seven breweries (_see_ BREWING INDUSTRY).
 The 1890s saw major changes in the state's soft-drink industry. New plants appeared with the introduction of the Hutchinson bottle stopper, patented in 1879 and manufactured in Chicago. (In a Hutchinson stopper, a wire loop protruded from the bottle neck and was fastened to a rubber seal; when seated the seal blocked the escape of gas from the water in the drink.) Most plants served one or two counties, and occasionally they shipped by rail to neighboring communities. The bottler's largest investment was in bottles and cases. No deposit was charged and bottle stealing among bottlers was common, even when glass blowers embossed the name of the town on the bottles. In 1891 the Elliott Bottling Works of Paris called a convention to address the problem. Twenty-nine bottlers and suppliers, principally from East Texas, met in October in Dallas and formed the Texas State Bottlers Protective Association. They drafted a constitution and by-laws aimed at preventing "the unlawful use of registered bottles, boxes, siphons, etc." But policing was impossible.
 By the 1890s two beverages had changed the character of the soft-drink


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: blobbottlebob
> 
> The justification I've always heard for round bottom bottles was to keep the cork from drying out. (If you can't stand the bottle up, moisture always stays on the cork).


 
 BBB ~

 Here's a reply Bill Lockhart sent me regarding a question I asked him about early crown-top soda bottles. I was curious about a particular bottle I have with a large capital "A" on the bottom, and inquired of Bill why this was present on my bottle. It's relates to what you said above, and I thought I'd pass it along for emphasis. Plus, I like your profile name.  Lol  []

 SODAPOPBOB

 (Bill Lockhart's quote).

Hutchinsons were packed with the finish/top down to keep the seal wet. In order to easily distinguish that a case of empty bottles ONLY had their own brand, many Hutch users had their initial (or company name) embossed on the base in a large letter. The practice continued with crown caps -- even though the main reason no longer existed.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

P.S. ~

 Bill Lockhart's reply is a lttle confusing, in that he said the practice of putting letters, etc. on the bottoms of Hutches was ... 

                      "to easily distinguish that a case of empty bottles ONLY had their own brand."

And yet at the same time he said ...

                    "Hutchinsons were packed with the finish/top down to keep the seal wet." 

So I'm wondering ...  If Hutches were shipped in wooden cases when they were empty as well as full, did they have a specially designed case just for Hutches that allowed the bottles to ride safely, but at the same time not push against the Hutch "pull ring" which would have caused the full bottles to leak?  I've never seen a Hutch only type of wood case. Was there such a thing?

Thanks,

SPB


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

In response to my own question regarding Hutchinson bottle cases, I found the information below. If someone has a good photo of one of these cases, I for one would be interested in seeing it.

 Thanks,

 SPB


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

Jay ~

 I apologize if it appears that I'm highjacking your thread. This is not my intent. It's just that I find it facinating, and have suddenly taken a genuine interest in Hutch bottles in general, and Texas bottles in particular. I'm sure most of you are familiar with the website I posted a link to below, but I thought I would share it with those individuals like myself who have never seen it before. It's all about the Texas soda history, and may prove for some to be a valuable resource. I believe it's the same site where "athometo" got his information. I just thought a direct link to it would help.

          Thanks again ... I may live in California, but I'm a true fan of Texas and "Texacan's."

 SPB

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/SS/disyk.html


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## jays emporium (Apr 29, 2010)

Bob,
 I already got what I wanted out of this thread, I found out where my unidentified bottle was from and better than that it is a very rare Texas bottle.  It may be the only example of this bottle found to date.
 As for Hutchinson cases, I have had one but don't have a picture of it.  It is a wooden case tall enough to cover the whole bottle, with small holes in the wooden bottom just large enough for the blob tops to fit through.  The bottom is raised about 4" above the bottom of the side boards so the bottle tops would not touch the surface below.  I think there were wooden dividers to keep the bottles from touching as well.  It held 24 Hutchinson bottles.  Mine did not have a lid but some may have.  Wish I still had it.
 So keep this thread going, Bob, interesting stuff.
 Jay


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## jays emporium (Apr 29, 2010)

Now, like Bob often does, I'll reply to my own post.  If Hutchinsons were designed to be crated and shipped upside down anyway, what is the purpose of making a round bottom bottle?  The justification I've always heard for round bottom bottles, as blobbottlebob pointed out, was to keep the closure wet.  So if the packing case was designed to do just that why make round bottom bottles in the first place?
 It's no wonder not many of these type bottles were made in the US.  It would simply be inconvenient to open a bottle of soda in the 1890's and not be able to set it down until you drank the whole thing.  I know they made special holders to set them in but I doubt they were commonly used or even available.  I think I have discovered an obscure bottle design that was obsolete before it was even produced.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

Jay ~

 I just read back through the entire thread, and unless I missed something, I didn't see where you mentioned anything about any other marks/letters embossed on your bottle. So out of curiosity I thought I'd ask.

 That's interesting what you said about Hutch bottles, especially about them not standing up. And along these same lines, (see my boxed Hutch info above), I'm also curious now why they say the contents would only stay fresh for "approximately 10 days." As long as it was sealed and air tight, I can't see why it would make a difference what type of closure it had.  ??? 

 SPB


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

I've been searching for an answer to my next question, but since I can't find the answer, I thought I would post my question now.

 We know that Hutchinson bottles also came with "flat" bottoms as well, so I'm wondering what the whole story is on "Round Bottoms vs. Flat Bottoms?"

 If I find the answer before someone else does, I'll let you know. But so far it's not looking too good.

 SPB


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

As if I haven't confused this thread enough already!  Here's a "round bottom crown closure" bottle I stumbled onto today. It is described below as follows ...

 Note : (My reason for posting this is to draw attention to the round bottom that, until a little while ago, I thought was only done on Hutches and similar early bottles. The information below was the only details available on it. But now I'm wondering why in the world would they put a round bottom on a crown bottle?)

 SPB

 Description:

 Round Bottom Soda Bottle Applied Crown Top ca.1890s. Also known as a Cucumber. This bottle was blown in a mold, and has what is known as an applied crown finish closure. The lip, a crown top, was fashioned after the bottle was removed from the mold in which it was blown. It is 8-1/4 inches long. Nice shade of aqua. Probably held Gingerale, though other soft drinks were bottled in round bottom bottles as well. Mouth-blown, true applied crown finish closure soda bottles are very uncommon. Mouth-blown, tooled crown finish soda bottles date from possibly as early as 1894, but more likely from about 1897.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

And here's a closeup of the bottom, which is indeed fully rounded without the hint of a flat surface.


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## cyberdigger (Apr 29, 2010)

This is getting juicy! []

 I have also long wondered why a round bottom bottle would have a crown top.. never even pondered a round bottom hutch! Congrats, Jay!!! I do recall hearing that early crown caps were lined with a thin disk of cork, which would probably have the same drying out problem as a regular cork...? So, why don't all early crowns have round bottoms? Because, they suck. Round bottoms were made to travel by boat across the seven seas, not to be bought at the corner store.. [8|]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 29, 2010)

Jay ~

                                                You said ...  "keep this thread going."

                                         And then cyberdigger said ... "this is getting juicy." 

 So I hope you don't object to another post from "Wonder Boy." I'm wondering about so many aspects to all of this, and have so many questions, I'm not sure where to start. But another thing I'm curious to know is how long you've had this bottle? And if it has been in you possession for some time now, why you waited so long to research it?  The reason I ask this is because the more I look into it, the rarer your bottle gets. And from where I sit, rare-rare-rare translates into $$$$!

 I started looking around to see how many other round-bottom Hutches I could find, (U.S. or otherwise), and to my surprise only found the example below. Except that it refers to it as a Blob top instead of a Hutch. Something I found particularily interesting about the accompanying text is where it says this bottle is "typical." If it's so darn typical, then why is it the only one like it on the internet I can find?

 I hope the information below will add additional flavor to this thread. And please note what it has to say about this type of bottle being made primarily in Great Britain.

 SPB



 [align=left]*

*[/align][align=left] [/align][align=left]*BERLIN MINERAL WATER CO., BOSTON U. S. A.* -  This is embossed inside of a large German cross that has a heraldic eagle trade mark.  It is also embossed with "REGD. 1873."  This is a typical round bottom soda type bottle that unlike the vast majority of such bottles, is actually of American origin - Boston, Mass. to be exact.  It is 9" tall/long, has an applied blob finish, and likely dates from the 1880s.  The majority of these type bottles found in the United States were imported from Great Britain and frequently embossed with company names and cities from England and Ireland - Belfast being a very common point of origin.  However, some were - like the bottle pictured - made in the United States (or made overseas for a U.S. bottler?). Condition of the bottle is excellent with just some wisps of faint haze inside (totally non-distracting), a tiny bit of external wear, and a very small indented (3-4 mm) imperfection to the underside of the lip that appears to be in-making as it is smooth (and doesn't appear under a hand lens to have been buffed). A relatively rare item I believe.[/align]



















 [align=left] [/align]


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## cyberdigger (Apr 29, 2010)

Ya, that is not a hutch.. the neck is way too long.. and as far as round bottom bottles go, I would say it is better than average, but scarcity is unknown to me.. the blob finish is the more common on them..


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## jays emporium (Apr 30, 2010)

Bob,
 To answer 2 of your questions.  First, the bottle does not have any markings whatsoever other than the name RISCHE'S.  No glass house marks or anything, which is not too unusual for older blown in mold bottles.
 Second, I have owned this bottle for a total of 6 days.  The first time saw it was last Friday night when I bought a collection of about 50 bottles.  At that time I had no idea it was from Texas but there is another rare San Antonio blob top in there I'll post a picture of when I get a chance.
 Jay


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## blobbottlebob (Apr 30, 2010)

> I'm also curious now why they say the contents would only stay fresh for "approximately 10 days." As long as it was sealed and air tight, I can't see why it would make a difference what type of closure it had. ???


 
 Hey SPB,
 There was a limit to the shelf life of these sodas because of the nature of preservatives at the time. Pasteurization was a relatively late discovery. (It was not used commercially until well into the the 1890s). Many sodas used actual fruit for flavoring and it spoiled. To compound this problem, refrigeration was nowhere near what it is today. Ice boxes were used that were fed by chopped and stored blocks from the winter months.

 Soda crate picture to follow . . .


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## blobbottlebob (Apr 30, 2010)

Here is an antique crate. I stuck a hutch in.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 30, 2010)

blobbottlebob ~

 It's funny how we take certain things for granted. It never entered my mind that old soda pop had a limited shelf life. I collect ACLs, and the thought of non-refrigerated beverages is new to me. Just as everything about this topic is. But I'm learning. Fantastic photo of the Hutch crate. I was hoping someone would come along with one.

                        I'm not sure which is the rarest ... Jay's bottle - Your crate, or ...

                                       ... the curious little item shown here?

 It's called a "Cruet." And as you can see it was designed to support a round bottom bottle. Jay referred to this item earlier, but not knowing what it was called made it a real challenge to find. In fact, I never did find an actual photo of one. It wouldn't surprise me if there were a number of these laying around somewhere and people don't even know what they are.

 SPB


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## blobbottlebob (Apr 30, 2010)

Hey SPB,
 I can't say that I remember ever seeing a cruet. I like the fact that there is a putnam stopper in the picture.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 30, 2010)

Based on the results of searching the internet for two solid hours, it appears that Cruets specifically designed for holding round bottom soda bottles are as rare as hen's teeth. In fact, I'm giving up the search. But at least I know what they look like now, and intend to keep my eyes peeled for them in the future. The example shown here if for a "Torpedo" bottle, and indicates there must have been a wide variety of different styles.

 SPB

 P.S. For Jay:  It appears that most round bottom soda bottles (Hutch and/or otherwise) were generally intended for "Ginger Ale." I wonder if this was the case with yours, and if so, why?


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## jays emporium (Apr 30, 2010)

I have one of those cruets somewhere, like the first one you pictured.  It even has a handle on one side to pick it up with.
 I still don't have any idea why a bottler in San Antonio, Texas in the late 1800's would order a batch of round bottom bottles with his name on them.  I'm wondering now if they had a regular flat bottom Hutch as well.  If so it is not common either.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 30, 2010)

Heck!  By the time we're done here I might be an expert on Hutchinson bottles like the rest of you. But I seriously doubt two days of research even comes close to the years of experience that many of you have devoted to the subject. I keep forgetting things like the fact that electricity was still in it's infancy at the time, and wasn't utilized until around 1880. Which reminded me that industries like soda bottling was primarily a hands-on process without the benifit of fully automated machines.

 In any event, this led me to something I didn't expect to find, which is the item shown below described as a wooden injector used to insert the wire closure into a hutch bottle, and was made of rock hard maple. I'm not exactly sure how it worked, but it must have been a time consuming prcess.

 Following this I will post a piece of advertising material that was associated with the device.

 SPB


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## SODAPOPBOB (Apr 30, 2010)

And here's the advertisment.


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## Sodasandbeers (Apr 30, 2010)

Listings of other round bottomed Hutches. Sodas and Beers Round Bottom Hutches

 I am sure there are many others.  Don't discount tradition and marketing in bottle shapes.  I have even seen crown top Codd shaped bottles!  Indents but not marble!


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 1, 2010)

Jay ~

 Early on in this thread you mentioned a "Cave Man" Hutchinson bottle made by the Wells Steam Bottling Works in Galveston, Texas. It intrigued me so I thought I would share this photo for those who, like myself, had never seen one before. It's one of the coolest Hutchinson bottles I've ever seen, and would love to have one. The information connected with this particular example said it sold on e-Bay recently for $610.00. Which, as I am only a small-time collector, is about $510.00 more than I usually limit myself on any bottle. But it's still a neat bottle to say the least. And the fact it's blue makes it just that much more interesting.

 SPB


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## jays emporium (May 1, 2010)

That caveman bottle is probably the best picture hutch of all time.
 Here is a picture of the San Antonio blob top that was with the round bottom.  There are only about half a dozen pre-Hutchinson Texas sodas and this is one of them.  The only one I know of in this style.  I have seen two on ebay in the last couple of years and I in fact bid on one of these that was dark purple last year but did not get it.


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## jays emporium (May 1, 2010)

Notice that this bottle is from San AntoniA Texas.  I have not seen it with the proper closure still intact.  This one must not have been buried because even 40 years in the Texas soil would have rusted that wire away.  I think this bottle would date around 1880.


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## athometoo (May 2, 2010)

here is a serious collector of texas sodas . serious meaning money . 
http://www.fults.org/


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## jays emporium (May 3, 2010)

Yes, I know R W Fults and he is a serious collector but far from the most serious collector of Texas sodas.  The person I am refering to will be at the Houston show but I don't think he would want me to post his name here as he is a private person.  I'm going to try to talk him into publishing a book on "The Bottles of Texas" because he has almost all of them.


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## athometoo (May 3, 2010)

its listed as a mineral water halfway down this page . listed as a dr though
http://www.onetacc.com/bottles/Collections/Texas%20Hutch.htm


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 3, 2010)

This is not my thread, and I'm sure Jay is more aware of this than anyone, but I wanted to point out this reminder that the spelling on the bottle is RISCHE'S and not "RICHES."  This threw me off a little earlier when I was doing some research of my own. Maybe they are one in the same, but something tells me they are different. ???

 SPB


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## jays emporium (May 3, 2010)

I'll have to go see that collection next time I'm in CC.
 It sounds like that is a different bottling company unless they have the name completely misspelled.


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## texasdigger (May 18, 2010)

That is one sweet soda!  It would do so well at the Houston show.  You are correct when you say sodas do well at that show.  The last show I was at had about 15 common drug stores, one nice Galveston Citrate, two Texas patent meds, couple nice Texas crocks and the rest of the Texas stuff was sodas.  

 As far as Texas soda collectors there are some really amazing collections.  I know of a couple collections that were used in writing some books about Texas sodas.  Truly close to complete Texas soda collections.  

 I am not a big soda guy, but I love the early Texas bottles.  My favorite soda from Texas is the "P. Conat New Orleans Galveston Texas" with an iron pontil in deep aqua green.  My friend who owns one of the two says they were found in a wall of a house that was being remodeled.  They are both in mint condition.

 Very nice bottles Jay!  It feels good to find something that is possibly unique.

 Brad


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## jays emporium (May 18, 2010)

Thank you, Brad.  Good to hear from you.  Will you be setting up at the Houston show on July 24?  I have dealer information if you need it.
 Jay


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## crabbergirl (May 18, 2010)

I have 3 of what we have always called "Ballast" bottles as they were discribed as bottles that provided ballast for trans Atlantic ships. The bottles were filled with either water or gingerale and used if needed during the trips or off loaded at ports for supplies. The ones I have are embossed "Belfast" and others are plain. I will have to post pics for you as I now wonder if what I was told was true. The dump these came from is rumored to be a pre Civil War landing.


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## texasdigger (May 18, 2010)

Nice to hear from you too.  I have been well, but just not heavy on bottles the last little while.  Kids, Work, Family and all that jazz has been keeping me busy.  Also we  lost our good East Texas dump we have been digging for a while so I have sulking a bit.  Going from digging a few hutchs, bitters, good meds and embossed flasks on each trip out back to the TOC stuff has been a bit tough to swallow.  So I have been doing more research (sanborns) marking maps with possible out houses, and dumping spots for a good local town.  Next step will be a trip there to try for some permissions.  I am not sure how it will go, but I am gonna try.

 As for the Houston show I am not sure if I will go.  I do have a ton of druggists to sell, but I am not sure how they would do there.  Thanks for offering the info though.  As it gets closer I am sure I will go, but maybe not set up.

 Thanks again, and have a good week.  If I do go I will bring the meds we discussed, and see what we can do after the show.  I wish we could work out a trade between us.  I would rather trade bottles with friends instead of exchanging cash.  It just feels better.

 Brad


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## jays emporium (Jul 25, 2010)

*RE: Sold my round bottom Texas Hutch.*

The Rische's round bottom Hutchinson from San Antonio now has a new owner.  I sold it for $350. at the Houston show.  If it said San Antonio, Texas it would have been a grand.  I had enough documentation to prove it is San Antonio though.
 Jay


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jul 28, 2010)

*RE: Sold my round bottom Texas Hutch.*

Jay ~

 Congratulations on the sale of your bottle. Now watch the "new owner" put it on e-Bay and get the $1000.00 that should have been yours. If he does do this, he'll probably even say it's a true-blue San Antonio bottle!  (No disrespect to the new owner - just foolin' around here).  [] 

 Take care,

 SPB


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## jays emporium (Jul 30, 2010)

*RE: Sold my round bottom Texas Hutch.*

Thanks Bob.  That round bottom will not be available again until that owner's estate sale.
 I did have additional proof of it being a San Antonio bottle.  I found an tooled top crown embossed RISCHE'S BOTTLING WORKS SAN ANTONIO, TEXAS.  I sold the 2 bottles together so there is no question about the origin of the round bottom.
 Jay


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