# The Darien Mineral Springs



## planeguy2 (Feb 28, 2022)

Hello, I recently came across some information regarding a mineral spring in Genesee County NY known as the Darien Mineral springs, located somewhere in darien lake state park. It went by other names, the Victor spring, and the Perry spring. I am looking for information regarding the location of this spring. All the information I know is in the following images as long as some pictures of the bottles from the location. If anyone knows anything about this spring, information would be much appreciated.
old worth point listing


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## planeguy2 (Feb 28, 2022)

The spring can be found on some old maps and a town comprehensive plan map, but none of these mapped locations are very accurate or seem to agree with each other.


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## hemihampton (Feb 28, 2022)

Here it is on this 1876 Map. LEON.


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## planeguy2 (Feb 28, 2022)

That is interesting, however as I am not too reliant on these old maps, this town plan also has it labeled ( number 32) however when I investigated these locations last summer nothing turned up. My only theory is that they are farther north as stated in the towns sesquicentennial book written in 1982, one year earlier is when an expedition was launched to re discover them and they found tapped wells "Near the north boundary of the park"


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## hemihampton (Feb 28, 2022)

my map shows it north east of #16?


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## hemihampton (Feb 28, 2022)

1904 map.


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## hemihampton (Feb 28, 2022)

Here it is? Maybe? if you follow the 1870 Map where Creek Splits off & follow the New Google Earth map where the Creek Splits off it would put it around the pink circled spot. The Creek is Ellicot Creek. LEON.


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## planeguy2 (Feb 28, 2022)

That would be the most logical way, if so those early maps are off by a great deal, I marked the rough supposed location of the tributary on the hill-shade map, the actual stream and split appears to be farther north. likelylocation of spring in the circle.


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## hemihampton (Feb 28, 2022)

There is two splits on that creek. one closer to rd. 21 or Broadway on your map & one farther up. The farther up split is the likely spot. LEON.

p.s. remember in 1870's maps there was no sattelites or planes for ariel photographs, just guess work back then i'm guessing.


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## CanadianBottles (Feb 28, 2022)

The first map Leon posted looks very similar to a series of maps which were done for Ontario in 1879, similar enough that I suspect they were done by the same people.  The Ontario ones are typically very accurate (by 1870s standards).  They can't be used to get exact co-ordinates for a building but they are close enough to get you within a few dozen metres of the building, typically.  The location of still-existing buildings can even be used to roughly line up the map with current aerial views.
I took Leon's 1876 map and overlaid it into Google Earth, and lined it up with the roads/railroad and the few remaining visible property boundaries.  It turns out that line at the top is not Sumner Road, it's a line of property boundaries which was midway between Sumner Road and Broadway.  That means that the site would be further south, roughly in the middle of the park near the blue tributary on the hillshade map.  If Leon's map is as accurate as the Ontario one then I suspect the springs, as of 1876 at least, were located fairly close to the co-ordinates: 42 54'35.75" N / 78 24'56.40"W.  While the early maps aren't perfect, they definitely wouldn't have located the springs on an entirely different person's property, so that would rule out the northern tributary as a possible location.


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## hemihampton (Feb 28, 2022)

The picture I posted was zoomed in on purpose so you could actually read the small print. Here in this pic not as far zoomed in you can see the roads surrounding the area. The solid black lines are not roads while the not solid black lines are the roads. This may give you a better perception of the area. LEON.

P.S.. the solid black line is exactly right in the middle between the 2 roads running east & west.

P.S.S. looking at the map it looks like it could be at the lower split but if so the map is not to accurate, the streets & railroads may be more accurate but i don't think the creeks or rivers are to accurate, unless they move over time?


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## CanadianBottles (Mar 1, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> The picture I posted was zoomed in on purpose so you could actually read the small print. Here in this pic not as far zoomed in you can see the roads surrounding the area. The solid black lines are not roads while the not solid black lines are the roads. This may give you a better perception of the area. LEON.
> 
> P.S.. the solid black line is exactly right in the middle between the 2 roads running east & west.
> 
> ...


Yeah it's tough to line up the creeks with the old maps.  I think it's a mix of both things you said - creeks do move over time, especially in the early-mid 20th century when a lot were rerouted by farmers, and also the surveyors did not put much effort into accurately mapping them compared to the effort they put into accurately recording the locations of buildings and property lines.  Accurately mapping a creek with 1870s technology probably wouldn't have been considered worthwhile, while mapping houses and property boundaries wasn't too difficult with simple surveying equipment or even just pacing out the distance.


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## planeguy2 (Mar 1, 2022)

That would make sense, however a lower stream to the scale of the map does not appear to exist, looking at the hillshade map the only tributary in the area barely goes out 1000 feet to the east, not the whole way to route 77 as the map depicts. The only tributary that is on the same scale as the one depicted on the map is the northern stream, so it must be that right??? I know streams change overtime, but I would expect them to get larger, not smaller.
Original 1876
Hillshade


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## CanadianBottles (Mar 1, 2022)

planeguy2 said:


> That would make sense, however a lower stream to the scale of the map does not appear to exist, looking at the hillshade map the only tributary in the area barely goes out 1000 feet to the east, not the whole way to route 77 as the map depicts. The only tributary that is on the same scale as the one depicted on the map is the northern stream, so it must be that right??? I know streams change overtime, but I would expect them to get larger, not smaller.
> Original 1876
> Hillshade


Streams often get smaller over time if the source of the water runs out, or change their course completely.  For a stream that small either one wouldn't be an uncommon occurrence, especially since it looks like the area directly to the south of the stream was farmed at some point.  Regardless, it can't be the upper stream because the upper stream is on an entirely different property.  Looking at your link it looks like it wasn't the same company which drew up the Ontario map that I use, but no matter how inaccurate the map is, they wouldn't have made a mistake like that.  You don't need accurate mapping technology to know who owns the mineral springs.  
It looks like there is a lower area which roughly aligns with the stream shown on the 1876 map, so at some point it could have significantly changed its route northward and the old stream bed mostly dried up.  There is still the mouth of a small tributary roughly where the 1876 map shows it, even though it doesn't seem to have anything feeding it today, and the eastern half of the tributary seems to have the same route as the one shown on the 1876 map.  It passes under Allegheny Road and begins at roughly the same place, so I think this was probably the original route:


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## hemihampton (Jul 23, 2022)

After doing some research on this subject it made me kinda Interested in these 2 Bottles when I seen them up for Auction recently. Is Planeguy2 still active in here? LEON.


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