# Ebay dilemma



## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

Recently, a bottle came up on ebay that would be one of the finest in my collection. It was gut check time. All week I pondered whether I should bid significant cash for a bottle in this economy. I decided that you have to pay when you get the chance (assuming you have the money). I won the auction. With shipping, the bottle cost me about $870. Some of you might think that is small change but it is a ton of cash for me. I already decided to shell out. Actually, I'm fairly excited about getting it. Then, after the auction closes, I receive a notice from ebay that the seller did not intend to sell the bottle without a reserve and the auction did not meet his reserve. Ebay sounds like they are willing to hear my side before acting. The auction was not a reserve type. It never showed reserve not met (or anything like it). I bid high to win.

 Here's the dilemma. There is some concern that the seller was unhappy with the final price (and is only now claiming it was a reserve auction). However, it is possible (taking them at their word) that they didn't check their auction very well after listing it and never realized it wasn't a reserve auction. Should I force the seller to stick to the deal or should I tell him that despite the fact that I still want it, he's off the hook? What do you think? Thanks in advance . . .Bob


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## cyberdigger (Oct 9, 2010)

I think the seller should be bound to the agreement, but there's probably some scuzzoid way to get out of it. I would be pretty ticked about this!


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## NYCFlasks (Oct 9, 2010)

Gee, that is quite a mess you have there......While in terms of honesty and good sport the seller, since it was not a reserve price auction,should sell the piece for the bid, and remember to be more careful in the future.  I was in the same spot one time, as a seller.  I had a script jug on eBay, and once it closed, for a somewhat low price (but more than I paid), I did receive several emails from bidders who wanted to bid on it, but for various reasons could not/did not.  I thanked all for their concerns, and let it go to the winner of the auction, as I believe that was the right thing to do.
 Can you force the seller to sell it?  Maybe.......but unlikely.  Remember, the seller still has it, and to get it away from the seller will be no easy trip.
 If it was me, I would try to see if somehow it can be worked out, send a few emails back and forth, but do not hold your breath.  Just might have to let this one go, it was not meant to be, and look at the money you saved............I have had to do this a few times over the years on eBay too.....


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

Thanks for your input Chuck and NYC.

 Thanks for the support Chuck.
 I think you have some good points NYC. Basically, the seller can say I'm keeping it, so there. I could post a negative but it doesn't change anything. 

 Right now, I'm trying to figure out the right thing to do and I'm still not sure.

 Here's some of my thinking. I try to put myself in the other guy's position and hold them to the standards I'd expect of myself. I'll admit that I am very careful when listing something. I don't want to mis-represent a bottle so I detail all damage for example. I think that I would have expected myself to notice the NO RESERVE problem well before the item closed. Afterwards, I would chalk it up to my own mistake. That's what I would do as a seller. I don't think that's what will happen, though.

 In terms of value, here's the deal. I would have liked to have won it for less BUT I did bid more than the final closing price. Also, I would not have met the reserve amount that the seller later came up with. I think I bid somewhere around fair market value (but who knows what that exactly is).


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## GuntherHess (Oct 9, 2010)

well, you really can't "force" them to sell it to you.  Realistically what is likely to happen is they will say no, ebay will record a strike against them, and basically nothing will come out of it. Welcome to ebay.

 I doubt you can even give them bad feedback since the auction was never really completed (but do it if you can).


 An honest seller would follow through with the auction and take the lost. It was thier mistake (I doubt it was a mistake really, I think they are just jerkin you around).
 I have made mistakes in my listings. I once listed an $80 item and accidently left a $5 buy it now on the listing. Someone hit buy it now before I could even revise the auction. I sold it for $5. That's honest business.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

In my first email response, the seller is telling me that he has all positive feedback, he has sold many items and this has never happened before. He's sorry and he is not trying to scam me. 

 I would still appreciate any and all input. I am considering asking him for his phone number and discussing it that way???


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## cyberdigger (Oct 9, 2010)

I gotta say, I am dying to see the listing, but I totally understand if it stays un-posted.. might be for the best..?


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## bottle_head9 (Oct 9, 2010)

Actually, all they really have to do is say the item fell off the table and broke.We are very sorry, but the item is no longer for sale, our Black lab knocked it off the table and it shattered into a million pieces.So sorry.We really did intend on sending it to you, but we threw all the pieces away, ther were just too many, and they were dangerous.You can`t force them to send the item to you.I`ve seen sellers back out before.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

> I doubt you can even give them bad feedback since the auction was never really completed (but do it if you can).


 Hey Gunth,
 The item closed. I won the auction. Its a done deal in terms of a finished contract. I'm confident that I could post a negative right now. I really don't want to, though. I hate getting anything less than positive and I am reluctant to smear somebody's reputation. Still working this out in my head . . .


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

> Actually, all they really have to do is say the item fell off the table and broke


 They could have but now it would look really fishy. I think I would post a negative if he said that.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

> gotta say, I am dying to see the listing, but I totally understand if it stays un-posted.. might be for the best..?


 I'm ambivalent about posting a link. Still not sure. As noted, I don't want to slander the seller or harm their reputation. On the other hand, I think I am giving a fair and honest acounting of the deal.


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## Lordbud (Oct 9, 2010)

Everyone says, "buyer beware"...so the seller should be bound by ebay's rules of auction. I wouldn't doubt that the seller was contacted by other potential bidders after the auction closed saying they would have paid more than the closing bid. I've been a seller and a bidder on ebay and have had very few problems either way. If I were you I'd try my best to hold the seller accountable. You played by the rules, the seller should absolutely do the same.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 9, 2010)

Leaving negative feedback should be last resort.

 If you want the item and feel the guy is honest by all means call them up and discuss it. Thats what civilized people do. Maybe you all can work out a deal that you both can live with. BUT it was the seller's mistake, they should be willing to take some loss for that error if they are honest.


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## bottle_head9 (Oct 9, 2010)

If it`s a citron bottle, I had it on my watch list.If it`s the same bottle, the seller certainly sells a lot of bottles and no doubt knew what that bottle was worth ahead of time.It looks a bit fishy to me, if it`s that bottle...[]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

You guys are giving me a little hope. However, its hard to believe that the seller will actually send the bottle after this. It really does look like a done deal on ebay, though. When I look at the auction, at the top it still says;

 You won this auction. PAY NOW

 Should I pay?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 9, 2010)

Every second that passes and you don't pay gives more power to the seller..


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## GuntherHess (Oct 9, 2010)

If you do pay and the seller sends back the money, make sure you dont get charged the Paypal commision when the money comes back to you.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

I spent a few minutes looking over ebay policies. Here's a quote.

Once the buyer has committed to purchasing the item, you can't change the terms of the sale.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 9, 2010)

If you want the bottle bad enough to take this to the bitter end, pay now... or forever hold your pesos..


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## GuntherHess (Oct 9, 2010)

yea Fleabay says a lot of stuff... 
 The one thing you have going for you is ebay has currently swung the pendulum far in the direct of the buyer.  So they may make some small effort but dont expect too much from them. When you start getting the old "we are just a venue..." line you know the game is over[]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

> I wouldn't doubt that the seller was contacted by other potential bidders after the auction closed saying they would have paid more than the closing bid.


 
 I'm not sure of this Lordbud. It is possible, I guess, but I think that the closing price is not miles off of the fair market value. In other words, I don't think I got a steal of a deal, I just got a rare bottle. Maybe it is worth more??? Maybe relisting it would result in more bids? Who can be sure? I think I know who the underbidder was and he will pay top dollar. I was higher.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

> If you want the item and feel the guy is honest by all means call them up and discuss it. Thats what civilized people do. Maybe you all can work out a deal that you both can live with.


 
 I'm still coming back to this Gunth. I think this is the next step. I really do want the bottle but I don't want a war. I think talking it out will clarify things.


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## bottlediger (Oct 9, 2010)

BOOM - http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-CITRON-MILWAUKEE-HUTCHINSON-SODA-BOTTLE-/170546754468?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27b560f3a4

 Nice bottle - pay for it and get it

 Digger ry


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

It doesn't show who won anymore, does it?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 9, 2010)

Cat out of bag.. excellent...!

 Looks to me like you won it.. if you have not yet communicated with the seller, pay for it and talk later.. it's a gorgeous bottle!

 PS no Bob, the bidders are encoded, including the winner..


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

You're funny Chuck.

 Okay. One disclaimer. I have never met the seller. He probably is a wonderful person. I am casting no doubt on his character at this time. 

 I have emailed him asking to have a phone conversation. I'll let you know.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 9, 2010)

> Then, after the auction closes, I receive a notice from ebay that the seller did not intend to sell the bottle without a reserve and the auction did not meet his reserve. Ebay sounds like they are willing to hear my side before acting.


 
 Wait a sec.. ..what notice? from the seller or who?


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 9, 2010)

After the auction ended Chuck, ebay contacted me (not the seller). I contacted him to let him know I'd seen this. Here is most of the email from ebay. Green is edited.

(someone) recently opened a cancel transaction case for an item your recently purchased: RARE CITRON MILWAUKEE HUTCHINSON SODA BOTTLE. We are closing the unpaid item case for this transaction and it won't be recorded on your account. 









Reason for cancel transaction request: The seller says that both of you disagreed over the terms of the transaction.

 Seller comment: ITEM WAS LISTED WITH STARTING BID OF $49.95,BUY IT NOW $1495.00 AND RESERVE PRICE $1475.OO.YOU ARE SHOWING SOLD PRICE $860.00?HOW COULD THIS HAPPEN?I WANT TO CANCEL THIS TRANSACTION.PLEASE CONTACT ME.

 Click the "Take action" button to accept or decline this cancellation.

 If you don't take action by Oct-16-2010, the seller will be able to cancel the purchase without your consent.
[/align]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

I guess I am giving out quite a bit more information with this one but I thought that editing it would just look too weird. As noted earlier, I did not bid high enough to have won this IF he had placed that reserve amount on the auction. However, I also think that it would be stretching the truth to say that 

both of you disagreed over the terms of the transaction. 

I had no idea after closing that there was any dispute. I was thinking about where to display it.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 10, 2010)

It's nice to see real stuff, Bob.. but looks like you can't pay for it any more, just accept or decline a dispute.. what a bummer!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

I can still pay for it Chuck. I have to transfer some cash first, though. I just clicked on PAY NOW and it took me right to a review in paypal. Looks fine to me.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 10, 2010)

Is there anything under open disputes?


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## TROG (Oct 10, 2010)

Hi Bob,

 By the seller claiming an unpaid item dispute he is basically saying you have decided not to pay and you have agreed to his cancelling the transaction although this is not the case.

 I would click on the decline the cancellation and then you can counter claim against the seller for non completion of the sale which then ebay will have to look at the dispute and you will still be eligible to give feedback


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## GuntherHess (Oct 10, 2010)

hmmm, seems pretty underhanded that the seller would try to go through ebay to cancel and say you both decided to end the transaction without contacting you first. That tells me they are not honest.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 10, 2010)

> We are closing the unpaid item case for this transaction and it won't be recorded on your account.


 It doesn't sound like he was given a chance.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 10, 2010)

> quote:
> 
> We are closing the unpaid item case for this transaction and it won't be recorded on your account.


 

 if both people agree to end the transaction then the buyer doesnt get an unpaid item strike and the seller doesnt have to pay the final fee. Both people have not agreed yet though from what I have read. 
 Whatever you are going to do you need to do it soon. I think they only give so many days for payment to be made before the seller can ask to cancel the transaction.

 Its an interesting case. One I have not experienced so far so keep us informed on how it goes. People can learn from your experience.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 10, 2010)

> One I have not experienced so far so keep us informed on how it goes. People can learn from your experience.


 One can only learn if things stay the same. ebay is like New England weather, just wait a minute, it will change!


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## Bixby Bill (Oct 10, 2010)

I agree with Trog. When you bid on eBay, it`s like entering into a contract to buy it if you are the high bidder. Likewise, the seller is under the same obligation to sell it to you if you are the high bidder, whether he`s happy with the price it sold for or not. His story of the reserve not being posted is a bunch of malarky! Anyone who lists something as rare as that and doesn`t double check the listing is a fool, or someone who never intended to have a reserve but had second thoughts after the auction ended. I say pay for the bottle, you won it fair and square, and then if it doesn`t get shipped, then go for the juggular. You may not have another chance at this bottle again. I have bought and sold quite a bit on eBay, and to me this is a case of the seller trying to back out of the deal after you have won it, and as long as you have sent the money, eBay should be on your side. I don`t intend to sound too strong on here, but after dealing with a few similiar people on there, I tend to come on strong when someone is trying to back out of a sale after they have won or I have won something on there. If you could talk to the guy and see what is going on would probably be the best bet, but it doesn`t sound like he is willing to do that. Hope it all works out well for you.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 10, 2010)

It was 5.95 for shipping Gunther so it was 11.95 thank you very much I didnt know it was you!!................................[]Just kiddin Matt

 BottleBob what a predicament this is.If you really want the bottle it looks as though you need to get ready to play some serious volleyball with eBay,paypal and rbrown4134602w.It will be a long drag it out process that in the end quite honestly I dont know who would win.Is this bottle the only known in this color.If this is the case you need to go for it.If this does drag out like I suspect it will it will get increasingly nastier on the sellers part.If over a months worth of constant haggling back and fourth it has been determined that the seller is not going to prevail expect your package to be delayed in shipping to the allowable max.But before that ever happens see if the seller is willing to take $9.77 every day for the next three months that will total $870.00 he does say in his sales agreement he is willing to take payments over a 3 month period.[]

 I think it might be time to call Judge Judith Sheindlin this would be a precident setting case.



 (Music) Badabum ba Badabum ba Badabum ba

 At the beginning of court proceeding, off-camera announcer Jerry Bishop introduces proceedings.

 and now the next case................ BottleBob is suing eBay and  rbrown4134602w in the case of (whoops I forgot to check the check -mark)

 Cut to the aerial fade in shot of the court room.Baillaf Petri Hawkins Byrd loudly announces All parties in the matter of  Bottlebob verses

 rbrown4134602w and eBay step forward please (Music......Badabum ba Badabum ba Badabum ba...........ssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss

 ssssssssssssss....................................... Bottlebob is suing rbrown4134602w and eBay for 870.00 for breach of contract

 Judge Judy: BottleBob you are suing rbrown4134602w and secondarily eBay auctions of SanHose California is that correct ?

 Bottle Bob:Yes Mam

 Judge Judy:rbrown4134602w you state in your case that ebay is at fault here and that their servers did not update the check mark you
 placed  in the reserve box and the amount stated of 1495.00.........Is that correct sir 

 rbrown4134602w: Well let me bigin by say................

 Judge JudyONT WELL ME.......... address the court as your honor

 rbrown4134602w: Yes your honor.

 Judge Judy:You may procede

 rbrown4134602w: (Looking down at the ground)Your honor I am a seller that...........

 Judge JudyONT LOOK AT THE GROUND LOOK AT ME

 rbrown4134602w: Yes your honor.Iam a seller with a 100 percent feedback rating and have never decieved anyone on eBay.Are you ah-where
 Mam what a feed back rating is?..................(Laughter behind him in the audience) and he smiles after hearing the laughter

 Judge Judy:WIPE THAT SMIRK OFF YOUR FACE.(In a much quieter tone now)No I dont know what a feed back rating is I just sit at home eating Captain Crunch and playing solitaire on my computer OF COURSE I KNOW WHAT A FEED BACK RATING IS ............YOU NINGCOME POOP PLEASE PROCEDE.

 rbrown4134602w:Mam I set up many auctions as I have sold over 900 items on eBay and have never had a problem before this.
 I checked the box and placed the correct amount in the reserve portion and hit submit I had no idea that EBays servers had not entered my information correctly?

 Judge Judy:You may be seated.Would the representitive from eBay please step forward and state your name.

 eBay: Yes Mam my name is Meg Whitman.

 Judge Judy:Arent you that person running for Governer in California against that bald headed guy that called you a Whore.

 eBay:Yes Mam Jerry Brown did call me that name Mam

 Judge Judy: If I lived in California Id vote for you!!!Please preceede and tell the court how ebays servers are set up to receive information.

 eBay: Yes mam  Here goes I will do my best to explain to the court...............We use the following 9 Different main page layouts built in to chose from.  Setup the categories, page colors, posting fees, site name/logos, or turn off unwonted features all in just one setup file. 
 Currency Customizable can use most world currencies 
 Set up your own categories and sub categories 
 Post a auction item with uploaded or linked image to be view with a auction item. uploaded images will be auto deleted after the auction item has expired! (The image uploading feature can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Post an auction item using 1 uploaded or linked images to be view with an posted auction item, image will auto delete when auction has expired! (This feature can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Dutch fixed price auctions for Multiple items with E-Mail conformation and quantity bided on (This feature can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Home Page Featured Auction listings 
 Home Page Featured Image Gallery Auctions 
 Buy It Now feature for auction items with no bids placed yet! (This feature can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Category Featured Auctions 
 Bold and Highlighted Background Listings 
 Listing Attention Grabber Icons   
 Auction Bidding Confirmation Display 
 Payment / Shipping / Display 
 Ask the Seller a Question Forum 
 Seller and Buyer Feedback   
 Ban users from bidding on your items 
 Editable Auction Item Description 
 View sellers other auction items 
 Auto Relist Option 
 Mail to a Friend Feature 
 Confirmation email sent for new items 
 View closed, won, sold, not sold auction items 
 Billing receipt  info sent for new items posted  (This feature can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Bid and Outbid notice sent to buyer via email 
 Closing item email sent to buyer and seller 
 Deletes closed auctions after "X many" days 
 Lost password look up 
 Lost user handle look up 
 User MyPage 
 Suggest a new category 
 Users can track items 
 Report Fraud 
 BidFind.com MegaList generator so you can get listed on BidFind.com 
 New Item Icon 
 Ending Item Icon 
 Picture Item Icon 
 BuyIt Icon 
 Dutch Auction Icon 
 Hot Item Icon 
 Reserve Price Icon 
 Reserve Price Met Icon 
 And Much More! ----- 
 Auction Administration
 View, edit or delete auction items. 
 View, edit or delete registered users accounts. 
 Suspend or reinstate a registered user. 
 Move a auction item to a different category. 
 Ban a users email address from registering. 
 Ban a users IP address from registering. 
 Ban free email accounts from registering. 
 Email all registered Users. 
 Accounting System
 The posting fees and all extra fees are setup in the config.pl setup file, all these can be a positive charge or set to 0.00 for free. 
 If turned in the config.pl file and the percentages fees setup the accounting can bill the seller a percentage of the high winning bid at auction closing. 
 New user registration credit (0.00 for no credit) 
 Registration referral credit to the referring registered user (0.00 for no credit). 
 A user can login to their account and view all of their charges/posting fees. 
 A user can make a realtime payment to their account using PayPal.com, PayByCheck.com, Nochex.com, 2CheckOut.com, PayStone.com, using one of these the users account will be auto credited in realtime reflecting the payment made to their accounting file. (Must have one or more of the merchant accounts listed to be able to use this feature, these can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Sellers Posting Fee Payments option1: When a user is posting a new auction item the system will check the sellers account for a min cash balance they must maintain (that you setup) before they can post a new auction item, if below the min balance they will be taken to a payment screen to credit there account (This feature can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Sellers Posting Fee Payments option2: When a seller is posting a new auction item they will be taken to a payment screen to pay for any posting fees before that new item is posted (This feature can be turned on or off in the setup file) 
 Auto monthly invoice to all users with a negative account balance. (This feature can be turned on or off in the setup file this is used with Posting Fee Payments oiption1 only) 
 The webmaster/Admin can login to the accounting administration and select the users account to view, there the admin can credit a users account, delete a users account, send an invoice to user and much more. 

 Judge Judy: very nice Mam that about sums it up.The mistake doesnt look like its eBays fault at all.Bottlebob please step forward.

 BottleBob : Thank you your honor,Recently, a bottle came up on ebay that would be one of the finest in my collection. It was gut check time. All week I pondered whether I should bid significant cash for a bottle in this economy. I decided that you have to pay when you get the chance (assuming you have the money). I won the auction. With shipping, the bottle cost me about $870. Some of you might think that is small change but it is a ton of cash for me. I already decided to shell out. Actually, I'm fairly excited about getting it. Then, after the auction closes, I receive a notice from ebay that the seller rbrown4134602w did not intend to sell the bottle without a reserve and the auction did not meet his reserve. Ebay sounds like they are willing to hear my side before acting. The auction was not a reserve type. It never showed reserve not met (or anything like it). I bid high to win. 
 Here's the dilemma. There is some concern that the seller was unhappy with the final price (and is only now claiming it was a reserve auction). However, it is possible (taking them at his word) that he didn't check his auction very well after listing it and never realized it wasn't a reserve auction. I feel the bottle is mine and I won it fair and square.

 Judge JudyONT use terms like fair and square in my court room MR. Bottlebob  is that understood.

 Bottlebob : yes mam

 Judge Judy: You may Procede

 BottleBob:  Thankyou mam I feel the bottle should be mine as I complied by the rules of the auction and won it in a fair bidding process.

 Judge Judy:  I have heard all sides and in summary here is what I have to say.Mr.rbrown4134602w you listed the auction and electroncally          signed off on the auction. BELLS  should have gone off in your head sir when the first bid came in at US $49.95  on Sep-29 at 10 07:53:48 PDT 
          Right then and there you should have noticed  something was amiss when you didnt see the RESERVE NOT MET YET in bold print.
         eBay (Meg) your auction was and is set up properly I find no fault whatsoever with this portion of the lawsuit.
          Bottlebob first let me state you seem like a fine gentleman.ARE YOU NUTS FOR SPENDING 870.00s  FOR A YELLOWY GREEN     BEER BOTTLE.
          You could have taken your wife on a cruise down a river boat to Branson Missouri to see Wayne Newton and Tony Orlando impersonating
          Yakoff  Smirnoff and the Oak Ridge boys instead of buying this bottle for this much.It must be nice to throw around that kinda money.........
          However I am siding with you as I see nothing you have done wrong here sir.Judgment for the Plaintiff in the amount of $870.oo
 (Music) Badabum ba Badabum ba Badabum ba 

 Court Interviewerout side the court room)BottleBob do you have anything to say? I am happy to win this auction as I have always wanted a CITRON MILWAUKEE HUTCHINSON SODA BOTTLE and now it looks as though it will be mine soon.My personal life is a shambles now as my wife has just texted me she is leaving me.She is on a river boat as I speak heading to Branson............rbrown4134602w do you have anything to say.I think eBay S__Ks and judge Judy can be a real B--ch Ok ..............Well thats all for the peoples court today tune in tommorrow when  Bob Pillars v. R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co.
 78 So. 365, 366 (Miss. 1918)   Hold the Toes Please.  "We can imagine no reason why, with ordinary care, human toes could not be left out of chewing tobacco, and if toes are found in chewing tobacco, it seems to us that somebody has been very careless." This really happened

 I have to cut my grass now have a nice day all....................................................................................Ill check back later.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 10, 2010)

> She is on a river boat as I speak heading to Branson


 
 funny[]


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## georgeoj (Oct 10, 2010)

I both buy and sell on ebay. Several times, I have listed good items and been disapointed with the final bid price. Twice the bid was less than I had paid for the item and well under the retail value. I never, even for a moment, thought about trying to get out of the sale. As far as I am concerned, once the aution is over, the deal is fixed. Sellers should never be allowed to do that which this one is trying. On the other side, I was the high bidder on an item ( not a bottle ) that was a very good deal and the seller refused to ship. I did every thing that was possible to convice the seller to ship but he refused. I left an honest,  but very negative, feedback that was fully proper under the cicumstances. A sellers dissapointment in the final price should NEVER be an excuse to refuse to complete the sale. George 
 PS The seller could have cancelled the aution at any time, without any reason given other than "the item is no longer available". I could not begin to belive that the seller suddenly 'noticed' that he did not have a reserve only after he did not get the price that he wanted.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 10, 2010)

"PS The seller could have canceled the aution at any time, without any reason given other than "the item is no longer available"

 Great point, I remember back when I was new to ebay that that happened. I had something appraised by Skinner for 3-4 hundred. within the last 8 hours it was up to $10 and I noticed I forgot the reserve. I wrote the 1 bidder and canceled the auction. I felt kind of bad until he wrote back and told me no problem and that he said he would have felt guilty for getting it so cheap. Those were the good old days of communication and trust though.
 It was at the time a special, sentimental piece.
 Anyway, yes, you can forget a reserve but you can also check it and cancel. Yes, you can forget a reserve but you can also check the listing. I was new to ebay, they have been selling since before I ever heard of it.


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## epackage (Oct 10, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> 
> PS no Bob, the bidders are encoded, including the winner..


 This isn't entirely true Charlie, I can find out who the high bidder is 99% of the time and it's very easy to do......I have made many purchases from box lots for Paterson bottles I wanted by finding out who the "high bidder" was....[]


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## bottle_head9 (Oct 10, 2010)

Unfortunately, i do not believe you will get the bottle.If his buy it now and  reserve were as high as he supposedly says, he won`t let that bottle go.The fact is, if he doesn`t want you to have that bottle, you won`t get it.The honorable thing to do would be to discuss it over the phone and come to some sort of an agreement.He obviously wants much more for the bottle than what you paid.you can give him negative feedback, open a case, and win that case, but if he wants to worm out of it, he can.The fact that he said you bothe agreed on coanceling the transaction tells me he will lie to keep the bottle.Again, he could say the bottle broke this morning.I really do wish you the best and hope you get the bottle.A mans word use tto mean something, apparently not in this case.[:'(]


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## bottle_head9 (Oct 10, 2010)

I see he relisted some bottles.In particular, a cobalt blue quart Hutchison bottle from Chicago.Some of his listings have buy it nows and some don`t.I think he simply underestimated how much YOUR bottle was gonna sell for.He messed up and should honor the sale.Again, good luck Bob.[]


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## beendiggin (Oct 10, 2010)

He should honor the sale.  You had a legally binding contract.  It's that simple.  Unfortunately, he can do what he wants, whether it's right or wrong.  He has the bottle.  So.............how much fight do you have in you?  Is it worth it for a bottle?  Or is it the principle, or is it both?  I feel sorry that this is happening to you.  E bay really stirs up some grief periodically.  I hope it turns out in your favor without any more drama. Good luck.


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## div2roty (Oct 10, 2010)

i'm sorry to hear that.  i bought some bottles from Rbrown before and I met him at the FOHBC show in York a couple of years ago and he was nice.  Its too bad this didn't work out for you.  He is pricey though.  Maybe another will come along.  Generally there is always a second one.

 Dispute it though and if possible leave negative feedback at the end.  You need to dispute it though, if you agree to it, I think ebay will close the transaction and neither of you will be able to leave feedback.

 Matt


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

Wow everyone. I was not expecting such a large number of replies and so much support. It seems that just about everyone believes that the seller is in the wrong (although some think he will not go through with the sale). He has not contacted me yet but I did tell him to call me on Monday. I still don't know if I want a war but if he doesn't call, I will dispute the transaction and pay for it. We'll see where it goes from there. Thanks again. You guys are the best!


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## cyberdigger (Oct 10, 2010)

I really hope it works out for you, Bob!!! Keep us posted, please!

 Steve, your Judge Judy episode had me dyin! How do you come up with this stuff??


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 10, 2010)

I meet my wife for lunch at home twice a week at 12:30.Judge Judy is on at that time Chuck.I love when she says wipe that smile off your face!! []
 Bob same here I would fight it there is no way he didnt notice the reserve not met yet verbage under the current bid.He was watching the bid from the time it hit 100.00.I would pay for it, receive it and then still give him low feed back for wasting your and our time at the forum here.Not that I mind chimin in  but I would rather be writing about maybe the high percentage of adultry in early glass blowers.


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## div2roty (Oct 10, 2010)

> maybe the high percentage of adultry in early glass blowers


 
 could be a good paper for some of the students on here that need paper topics every now and then, although i doubt there is much good evidence out there.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> Is there anything under open disputes?


 Hey Cows,
 There is a request that I cancel the transaction. At the bottom, I have the option to;

decline the seller's request to cancel this transaction.

 I will likely do that tomorrow evening unless I come to some understanding with the seller beforehand (if he calls).


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> Hi Bob,
> 
> By the seller claiming an unpaid item dispute he is basically saying you have decided not to pay and you have agreed to his cancelling the transaction although this is not the case.
> 
> I would click on the decline the cancellation and then you can counter claim against the seller for non completion of the sale which then ebay will have to look at the dispute and you will still be eligible to give feedback


 
 Hey Trog,
 I wonder if I should be more offended that he is basically claiming to ebay that I am a deadbeat buyer? I don't think that ebay agrees because (obviously) he made the claim the same day the item closed.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> That tells me they are not honest.


 Hey Gunth,
 Thanks a ton for all of your input! You know what I said about putting myself in the seller's place? I imagine that if I screwed up that royally, the FIRST person I would contact is the buyer. I would say "Oh my gosh. I am so sorry. I totally messed up. I should have paid better attention and I feel sick about it. Is there any way we can remedy this problem?" Then I would send the thing out EVEN IF I thought it sold low. Instead, he contacts ebay and kind-of insinuates that I am a deabeat? Humpf.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> I agree with Trog. When you bid on eBay, it`s like entering into a contract to buy it if you are the high bidder. Likewise, the seller is under the same obligation to sell it to you if you are the high bidder, whether he`s happy with the price it sold for or not. His story of the reserve not being posted is a bunch of malarky! Anyone who lists something as rare as that and doesn`t double check the listing is a fool, or someone who never intended to have a reserve but had second thoughts after the auction ended.


 
 Thanks Bixby. 
 I agree with your comment about contracts. I've seen warnings to bidders not to bid unless you intend to pay because you are entering a binding contract.

 As far as not paying any attention to the auction, I emailed him two questions (mostly about the condition) days before the listing ended. At that time, the price was approaching $500 and it had 13 bids. I'm confident that someone would be paying attention unless they were made of money and it didn't matter. But if that were true, he wouldn't care if it sold a bit lower than he wanted.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> Is this bottle the only known in this color.


 The bottle is very very rare in this color Steve (Sewell). I know of at least one other example out there (but I assume there are more). Nonetheless, I was hoping to take a big step forward in my collection.

 Your Judge Judy exposition is amazing. That thing goes on and on and on. I think i would do okay with Judge Judy (because I believe I am basically in the right - in contract terms) and most importantly, I wouldn't piss on her leg and tell her its raining.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> I wouldn't **** on her leg and tell her its raining.


 Oops. My bad. Forgot about the bodily function ban.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> You could have taken your wife on a cruise down a river boat to Branson Missouri to see Wayne Newton and Tony Orlando impersonating
> Yakoff Smirnoff and the Oak Ridge boys instead of buying this bottle for this much.It must be nice to throw around that kinda money.........


 
 Steve,
 This was a serious concern. I warned my wife that I was considering spending big bucks on a bottle. When she sat calmly, I knew that Branson was probably not going to happen. I thought Wayne Newton was still in Vegas anyway?


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 10, 2010)

> A sellers dissapointment in the final price should NEVER be an excuse to refuse to complete the sale. George


 
 Amen to that George!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> Yes, you can forget a reserve but you can also check the listing.


 This is a decent point. I've had bottles close that I was watching / bidding on with no explaination. However, this seller waited until after the auction closed to notice that no reserve had been issued. How is it possible that he is so cavalier about money when he is listing that he pays little attention to the auction details YET so concerned about money that he won't finish the sale of a completed auction because he was unhappy with the price?


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> I can find out who the high bidder is 99% of the time


 You're holding out on us epackage. We need more info . . .


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> A mans word use tto mean something, apparently not in this case.


 Word to that Bottlehead. I'm still hoping but we'll see. (I need Judge Judy). Maybe Steve could adjudicate on this forum for us. Da da da  - - da.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 11, 2010)

> You had a legally binding contract. It's that simple. Unfortunately, he can do what he wants, whether it's right or wrong


 Yes and no, it is a legally binding contract and you can take him to court. There is precedence on this. You could also offer the reserve price. Find out which is cheaper, the lawyers and court or the reserve[][][]
 This is one of the saddest (most depressing, not worst) post I've seen in a long time.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> I hope it turns out in your favor without any more drama. Good luck.


 Thanks Paul. I really am surprised at the overwhelming support I have received on this thread. It has toned the drama down. I think I can deal with this however it goes.


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## JOETHECROW (Oct 11, 2010)

I've only occasionally bought through e bay over the last decade....no high dollar stuff,. I've been considering selling once again in the forseeable future,( I used it to sell off surplus bottles when I started years ago) From what everyone has said recently,...I'm in for a rude awakening with modern e bay.[:'(] Bob,...it sounds totally like b.s. to me, and you DID win fair and square....Not every buyer wins the item, and not every item goes for what it should...That is the whole premise of the auction format. Greed tends to make people do bad things....I hope you get your bottle.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> i bought some bottles from Rbrown before and I met him at the FOHBC show in York a couple of years ago and he was nice.


 I can believe it. I plan to be as reasonable, as civil, and as kind as I can possibly be. There's no point in being a jerk (even if you think you're in the right). As I have said earlier, I don't want a war. If he's a nice guy to me, maybe we can work this out?


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> I would rather be writing about maybe the high percentage of adultry in early glass blowers.


 Steve,
 Where are you getting this stuff? I thought glass blowers worked 16 hours a day in a hot and sweaty environment. When do they have time for extra activities?


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> This is one of the saddest (most depressing, not worst) post I've seen in a long time.


 Hey Cows,
 I'm sorry you feel that way about the post. It is cheering me up quite a bit. I thought that there might be more mixed reaction, more supporting sentiment for the seller. I have seen very little of that (so far at least).


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 11, 2010)

Click decline while you can. If time runs out you have no recourse. It will probably just delay the inevitable but what the H at this point.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> I'm in for a rude awakening with modern e bay.


 Hey Joe,
 Thanks for your support as well. I think this particular case is a bit of an abberation. I have never had this happen to me before. I've had buyers back out (when I was the seller) (-- and ebay is very pro-buyer right now) but I've never had a problem like this.

 Ebay states that its overall philosophy is that people are generally good. I find that to be the case most of the time. You should be fine if you start selling again. Just be careful and honest in your listings. One other thing - the market is funny right now. Some things still sell for good money. Others aren't doing as well as they have in the past.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> I love teal! No wait, cobalt. No black glass. Aqua and clear? Yup! I love it all!!


 Hey Cows,
 Thank YOU for chiming in even when you thought this was depressing. I think your tag line is funny. It reminds me of the ending of the Monty Python movie (the Holy Grail) where they are about to cross the bridge over a horrible terrible death. First they must answer three questions. What is your name? What is your quest? What is your favorite color? Red - No blue -aaaahhhhhhhh!


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 11, 2010)

Holy Grail was one of my favs. I love Life of Brian too. Has Brian checked in yet?


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

One other little point. The seller cannot claim that he only uses reserve auctions. He currently has five items available. Of the five, three have BUY-IT-NOWs with reserve not met (yes it appears even before the opening bid is made) but the other two are regular standard style auctions that go to whomever bids the highest.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 11, 2010)

Before you bought yours none in the last 90 days had reserves from what I remember when I checked.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

I'm not sure if you can search by 'items-not-sold'. It appears that he knows the system well enough not to have made a rookie mistake, though.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 11, 2010)

> 'items-not-sold'.


 No, those were completed. Yours or a watcher should say "reserve not met".


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

You're right. I checked the closed auctions and it does show the ones that did not sell as well as those that did. (Mine appears with the SOLD logo on it.[])


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 11, 2010)

And not reserve not met. I was wrong though, there are some before and after with reserves, but not yours. There was one with a $1500 BIN and reserve not met. the high bid was $154 plus change.


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## epackage (Oct 11, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Hi Bob, if I tell you here the cats out of the bag and the next thing you know e-bay finds out how I do it and they find a way to stop it. I'm on the fence about letting the cat out of the proverbial bag on this one.......[:-]


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## ajohn (Oct 11, 2010)

Hey Bob,
 Don't really have any input that might help with your decision.Just chiming in to say good luck with this issue,and trust yer guts....they seem to be screaming at you[]
                                                                                           Anthony-J.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 11, 2010)

[]Blobbottlebob this might cheer you up.Let us know as soon you hear from the seller.
 We can always call this guy................................................

 Scene 1
_[wind]_
_[clop clop clop]_
*King Arthur:* Whoa there! 
_[clop clop clop]_
*Soldier #1:* Halt! Who goes there?
*Arthur:* It is I, Arthur, son of Uther Pendragon, from the castle of Camelot. King of the Britons, defeater of the Saxons, Sovereign of all England!
*Soldier #1:* Pull the other one!
*Arthur:* I am, ...and this is my trusty servant Patsy. We have ridden the length and breadth of the land in search of knights who will join me in my court at Camelot. I must speak with your lord and master.
*Soldier #1:* What? Ridden on a horse? []
*Arthur:* Yes![] 
*Soldier #1:* You're using coconuts! []
*Arthur:* What? []
*Soldier #1:* You've got two empty halves of coconut and you're bangin' 'em together. []
*Arthur:* So? We have ridden since the snows of winter covered this land, through the kingdom of Mercia, through-- 
*Soldier #1:* Where'd you get the coconuts? []
*Arthur:* We found them. []
*Soldier #1:* Found them? In Mercia? The coconut's tropical![] 
*Arthur:* What do you mean? []
*Soldier #1:* Well, this is a temperate zone. []
*Arthur:* The swallow may fly south with the sun or the house martin or the plover may seek warmer climes in winter, yet these are not strangers to our land? 
*Soldier #1:* Are you suggesting coconuts migrate? []
*Arthur:* Not at all. They could be carried. 
*Soldier #1:* What? A swallow carrying a coconut? 
*Arthur:* It could grip it by the husk! []
*Soldier #1:* It's not a question of where he grips it! It's a simple question of weight ratios! A five ounce bird could not carry a one pound coconut. 
*Arthur:* Well, it doesn't matter. Will you go and tell your master that Arthur from the Court of Camelot is here? []
*Soldier #1:* Listen. In order to maintain air-speed velocity, a swallow needs to beat its wings forty-three times every second, right?[] 
*Arthur:* Please![] 
*Soldier #1:* Am I right? 
*Arthur:* I'm not interested! 
*Soldier #2:* It could be carried by an African swallow![] 
*Soldier #1:* Oh, yeah, an African swallow maybe, but not a European swallow. That's my point. 
*Soldier #2:* Oh, yeah, I agree with that. 
*Arthur:* Will you ask your master if he wants to join my court at Camelot?! 
*Soldier #1:* But then of course a-- African swallows are non-migratory.[] 
*Soldier #2:* Oh, yeah... 
*Soldier #1:* So, they couldn't bring a coconut back anyway...[] 
_[clop clop clop]_
*Soldier #2:* Wait a minute! Supposing two swallows carried it together? 
*Soldier #1:* No, they'd have to have it on a line. 
*Soldier #2:* Well, simple! They'd just use a strand of creeper! 
*Soldier #1:* What, held under the dorsal guiding feathers?[] 
*Soldier #2:* Well, why not? 


 Scene 23

_[gurgle] 
_*Galahad:* There it is! 
*Arthur:* The Bridge of Death! 
*Robin:* Oh, great. 
*Arthur:* Look! There's the old man from scene twenty-four![sm=lol.gif] 
*Bedevere:* What is he doing here? 
*Arthur:* He is the keeper of the Bridge of Death. He asks each traveller five questions-- 
*Galahad:* Three questions. 
*Arthur:* Three questions. He who answers the five questions-- 
*Galahad:* Three questions. 
*Arthur:* Three questions may cross in safety. 
*Robin:* What if you get a question wrong? 
*Arthur:* Then you are cast into the Gorge of Eternal Peril. 
*Robin:* Oh, I won't go. 
*Galahad:* Who's going to answer the questions? 
*Arthur:* Sir Robin! 
*Robin:* Yes? 
*Arthur:* Brave Sir Robin, you go. 
*Robin:* Hey! I've got a great idea. Why doesn't Launcelot go? 
*Launcelot:* Yes. Let me go, my liege. I will take him single-handed. I shall make a feint to the north-east that s-- 
*Arthur:* No, no. No. Hang on! Hang on! Hang on! Just answer the five questions-- 
*Galahad:* Three questions. 
*Arthur:* Three questions as best you can, and we shall watch... and pray. 
*Launcelot:* I understand, my liege. 
*Arthur:* Good luck, brave Sir Launcelot. God be with you. 
*Bridgekeeper:* Stop! Who would cross the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see. 
*Launcelot:* Ask me the questions, bridgekeeper. I am not afraid. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your name? 
*Launcelot:* My name is 'Sir Launcelot of Camelot'. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your quest? 
*Launcelot:* To seek the Holy Grail. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your favourite colour? 
*Launcelot:* Blue. 
*Bridgekeeper:* Right. Off you go. 
*Launcelot:* Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. 
*Robin:* That's easy! 
*Bridgekeeper:* Stop! Who approacheth the Bridge of Death must answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see. 
*Robin:* Ask me the questions, bridgekeeper. I'm not afraid. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your name? 
*Robin:* 'Sir Robin of Camelot'. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your quest? 
*Robin:* To seek the Holy Grail. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is the capital of Assyria? 
_[pause] _
*Robin:* I don't know that! Auuuuuuuugh! 
*Bridgekeeper:* Stop! What... is your name? 
*Galahad:* 'Sir Galahad of Camelot'. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your quest? 
*Galahad:* I seek the Grail. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your favourite colour? 
*Galahad:* Blue. No, yel-- auuuuuuuugh! 
*Bridgekeeper:* Hee hee heh. Stop! What... is your name? 
*Arthur:* It is 'Arthur', King of the Britons. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is your quest? 
*Arthur:* To seek the Holy Grail. 
*Bridgekeeper:* What... is the air-speed velocity of an unladen swallow? []
*Arthur:* What do you mean? An African or European swallow?[] 
*Bridgekeeper:* Huh? I-- I don't know that! Auuuuuuuugh! 
*Bedevere:* How do know so much about swallows? 
*Arthur:* Well, you have to know these things when you're a king, you know.


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## PrivyCheese (Oct 11, 2010)

Just wanted to chime in and throw in my two cents worth......If you were the high bidder on an item could you then decide after the auction is over.....ooooppps Thats more then I wanted to pay and cancel the transaction? What do you think would happen then? You would get negative feedback and the wrath of Fleabay.... say a deal is a deal and he should honor it. He over-valued the item, but truth is possesion is 9/10th of the law right? He in the end dosnt have to give you the bottle. he is a rat fink.....period


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## epackage (Oct 11, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  baltodigger
> 
> Just wanted to chime in and throw in my two cents worth......If you were the high bidder on an item could you then decide after the auction is over.....ooooppps Thats more then I wanted to pay and cancel the transaction? What do you think would happen then? You would get negative feedback and the wrath of Fleabay.... say a deal is a deal and he should honor it. He over-valued the item, but truth is possesion is 9/10th of the law right? He in the end dosnt have to give you the bottle. he is a rat fink.....period


 Sellers can't leave negative feedback anymore but you would get a non payment strike from e-bay, nothing more nothing less.....I agree with everything else you said !!![]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> Just chiming in to say good luck with this issue,and trust yer guts....they seem to be screaming at you


 Thanks Ajohn.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> If you were the high bidder on an item could you then decide after the auction is over.


 Hey Balto,
 I made this very same point to the seller. See the update coming shortly.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

Okay. Update time. The seller did indeed call me. In fact, I couldn't answer his first call and he called back awhile later. We were perfectly civil with each other never raising our voices or our tempers. In the end, we agreed to dis-agree.

 He basically offered to take $100 off for this mistake (which he implied was ebay's fault) and to sell me the bottle for the low low price of $1,375. OVER $500 more than I won it for! Among other points, I asked him if he ever checks his auctions after he lists them (and he said "No"). We discussed the value of the thing and he said that the value is whatever someone is willing to pay. I noted that the underbidder in known to pay top dollar and I bid higher. Perhaps, we had established the fair market value at this time. He said no. I asked him what I could have done better, done differently to make the sale go through. He replied (and this is close to a quote):
You won the auction fair and square but I won't sell it for less than $1,375.
So, basically, we ended our conversation amicably but with no actual progress. After the call, I was fairly discouraged that he would ever send it for the selling price. My wife told me to just agree to the cancellation request and be done. I, however, decided not to. I don't think its right and I'm not letting him off that easy. I have now declined the cancellation and I will contact ebay to see what steps can be taken now.


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## JOETHECROW (Oct 11, 2010)

Stick to your guns Bob...  Hopefully e bay decides in your favor.[]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

Here is the next step I took. I emailed the seller. (Note that I screwed up the Balto comment above but I am making the same point in the email - You can't get out of the deal as a buyer so, why should you be able to as a seller?)

Hey RJ. Thanks for taking the time to call me today. I have declined the offer to simply close the transaction. I am still hopeful that you will honor the deal. The terms of the auction were set up by you and I played by the rules. As you noted, I won the auction fair and square. I think you would be disappointed by a buyer who promises to pay but then refuses to deliver. I would consider whatever remedies ebay has to offer including posting poor feedback if necessary. But I don't want to do that. I'm hoping that you will reconsider and do the right thing. Thanks in advance, Bob


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 11, 2010)

> Blobbottlebob this might cheer you up.


 Thanks Steve. It worked. Cloppity clop clop.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 11, 2010)

This is fascinating, Bob!
 I'm behind you 100% go for it my good man!!
 We shall see if justice prevails...


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## bottle_head9 (Oct 11, 2010)

Too bad you didn`t pay for the bottle.Maybe that would have been more of an incentive.Probably not though, he sounds like a cheap skate.$100.00 off!! Big deal!!!Stick to your guns!!![]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

I contacted ebay's live help. It took two hours but I did get a real person. (A real busy person at that). First, I was told to use the 'report a member' tool. Which, I am sad to say, I have now done. I don't know how tough ebay will get but the support member sounded like ebay does not tolerate deadbeat sellers. We'll see what comes out of it. Again, I am still oddly hopeful that things just work out. He could see the light. He could send it off. Man. Am I ever delusional?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

..maybe a touch of the bends? []


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

It could be nitrogen narcosis (a drunken feeling brought on by too much nittrogen at depths).


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

Sounds good to me...Is that easy to get? How long does it last? Sounds good to me...


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

No Chuck. Its not easy to get. It only occurs at depth. It is very short lived as well because it goes away as you ascend. It can be dangerous, though, because it can impair your judgement (at a bad time). I've only had it happen once and I was too busy going whoa I got nitrogen narcosis to try and extend the moment.


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## suzanne (Oct 12, 2010)

If it was me  I'd put the 800 away for a rainy day and forget it.  If I forced the guy to sell it to me somehow I would feel a sense of conflict every time I looked at the bottle and thats not what it's about.


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## BillinMo (Oct 12, 2010)

Wow.

 Dumb question, since it's been mentioned that the seller set up at FOHBC shows.  Does the FOHBC arbitrate buyer/seller disputes if both parties are members?  If so, and you're both members, why not ask for it?

 The National Insulator Association has an Ethics Committee that will step in when requested, and as far as the NIA is concerned, the Code of Ethics applies whether it's a deal at a show, through the mail or eBay.


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## saratogadriver (Oct 12, 2010)

I think it's a shame you had to go that way, but it's probably the position that I would have taken.  If he'd offered to make some real reduction in price to try to satisfy you, that's one thing.   He didn't.   And sending something through ebay implying that you were in agreement that the sale was flawed is horsemanure, where you had no way to know he was even contemplating a buy it now and reserve auction.    HE has some duty/obligation to look at his auctions before he posts, or he should have to live with the result.

 And I know what you mean about it being a lot of money.   I just spent $575 on a single bottle, which is the most I've spent to date.  It IS a big deal to you when it's a big purchase for you.


 Good luck.

 Jim G





> ORIGINAL: blobbottlebob
> 
> Here is the next step I took. I emailed the seller. (Note that I screwed up the Balto comment above but I am making the same point in the email - You can't get out of the deal as a buyer so, why should you be able to as a seller?)
> 
> Hey RJ. Thanks for taking the time to call me today. I have declined the offer to simply close the transaction. I am still hopeful that you will honor the deal. The terms of the auction were set up by you and I played by the rules. As you noted, I won the auction fair and square. I think you would be disappointed by a buyer who promises to pay but then refuses to deliver. I would consider whatever remedies ebay has to offer including posting poor feedback if necessary. But I don't want to do that. I'm hoping that you will reconsider and do the right thing. Thanks in advance, Bob


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## epackage (Oct 12, 2010)

Good luck BBB, it makes me want to bid up all his bottles from a fake username and not pay for any of them......He might have a better understanding of how he's trying to screw you....Jim


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> If it was meÂ  I'd put the 800 away for a rainy day and forget it.Â  If I forced the guy to sell it to me somehow I would feel a sense of conflict every time I looked at the bottle and thats not what it's about.


 
 This is an interesting POV.. if it were me, I'd fight to the bitter end, and if I got the bottle, it would not only be a great piece in the collection, it would also symbolize a victory over treachery.. not that I don't love you, Suze!! []


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> If it was me I'd put the 800 away for a rainy day and forget it. If I forced the guy to sell it to me somehow I would feel a sense of conflict every time I looked at the bottle and thats not what it's about.


 Hey Suzanne,
 I've bought some bottles from some people that I wouldn't talk to anymore. I try not to hold it against the bottle that they were owned by those people. As far as guilt or remorse, I would feel it most distinctly if I did something wrong. At this point, I think I followed the rules. Maybe if it was Red and it was his first listing and he made a mistake, I'd say, "Don't worry about it Red." But that's not exactly the case. I am trying to do what is right. I don't think it is fair that he can back out of the deal without some record that it happened. He likely will keep the bottle. At least he won't be able to continue to pull things back post auction without developing reputation for doing so.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

[]  ..we're so in sync, Bob..


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## Lordbud (Oct 12, 2010)

It was amazing to attend the last Alameda Antique Fair on Oct. 3rd. The sellers are right there, you get to hold the item you're interested in, in your hands. If the item was in a small display case, the seller would step over and open the case to let me hold the item. "How much are you asking?" "Will you take less?" "How about $12 for both of these?" Stopped at one seller's table and he's busy complaining to a potential customer saying no one wants to pay a fair price. I asked this seller about an advertising ruler, and he gave me a too high a price to even bother bargaining about. Walked on to the next table...completely different experience. This is the only monthly antique fair in the SF Bay Area. I personally don't think it is worth going to more than once a year or so. Gotta let the sellers recoup their new stock. Plus the $10 entry fee and the drive is at least an hour each way...I spent a little less than the $100 that I had to borrow from my friend. Shows that happen around the first of the month are usually "IXnayed" since I have to pay rent right around the 1st of each month.


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## bottle34nut (Oct 12, 2010)

absolutely fight this tooth and nail.  you are in the right.  if you look at all the bottles he has/had  for sale, and sold,  i would say he is way ahead of the game.  me personally, if i were the seller,  i would say damn,  i f*cked up, oh well.  here is your bottle.   its not he sold it for $1.  i have been following this thread,  and the only thing i would have done differently was paid immediatly and put the ball in his court.  once you paid  you satisfied the contractual agreement set by ebay,  not that it matters,  but looks better in your case.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> Dumb question, since it's been mentioned that the seller set up at FOHBC shows. Does the FOHBC arbitrate buyer/seller disputes if both parties are members? If so, and you're both members, why not ask for it?


 Hey Billinmo,
 Sorry but not only am I not a member, I don't even know what FOHBC stands for. I'm guessing the last two are bottle club??? As far as I know, my major link to national collectors is here. I want Steve (or Chuck) to adjudicate while everyone else is jurors. I'm thinking the seller would take one look at the jury box and run.[]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> I just spent $575 on a single bottle, which is the most I've spent to date.


 Welcome to the big spenders club Saratoga! I remember when I sold a bottle for $150 that I found. I thought that the guy must have been made of money. Now, I bid the big bucks on ebay and can't win for winning. (All of the pontilled colored historical museum piece collectors are laughing at our big spending).


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> it makes me want to bid up all his bottles from a fake username and not pay for any of them


 Thanks for the supporting sentiment, but I really don' think its a good idea. The old two wrongs thing. He will get a slap from ebay (that maybe he earned). That's good enough for me.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

I'll do it if I can be Judge Wapner.. Steve has dibs on Judy..


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> it would also symbolize a victory over treachery..


 Chuck,
 I like the way you think.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> The sellers are right there, you get to hold the item you're interested in, in your hands.


 Hey Lordbud,
 Wish I could have done that. I've never seen this bottle for sale locally (though it was both made and used here). If you're trying to amass a great collection, sooner or later you gotta turn to a bigger market.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> Stopped at one seller's table and he's busy complaining to a potential customer saying no one wants to pay a fair price. I asked this seller about an advertising ruler, and he gave me a too high a price to even bother bargaining about.


 That's pretty funny.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Funny, but also true.. people used to pay more for collectible stuff than they do now.. let's hope it lasts forever! [sm=rolleyes.gif]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> its not he sold it for $1.


 Hey Bottlenut,
 Yea that is an odd point. The amount was fairly high. The underbidder was a guy who will pay to get great glass. We are somewhere around the neighborhood of fair market value (whatever that is) unless he listed it so poorly that it didn't turn up on searches. But again, that was within his control.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

> I'll do it if I can be Judge Wapner..


 (Dustin Hoffman's voice) Uh oh. Wapner . . .


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

Don't fret, I can be bribed.. ..by either side..


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 12, 2010)

Uh oh. Wapner.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 12, 2010)

Court rules in favor of postponement of proceedings until tomorrow.. all rise as his honor dismisses himself..


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 12, 2010)

I say andhe says to go ahead and pay for it.And there better not be any monkey business from the seller.


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## ajohn (Oct 13, 2010)

Well Bobby,looks like this isn't about a bottle anymore.The seller is obviously someone who thinks he doesn't have to pay for his mistakes.By taking action I believe you've already won.You've won respect and support.If the bottle does make it to you,I know that your appreation for the bottle will erase any ill spirit that might come with it.
 Way to go!
 Steve,your Judge Judy thing was the funniest thing I've read in a long tine,thanks
 Anthony-J.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 13, 2010)

Bob hope you like this cartoon could be the makings of a new smash fall hit!!! The Adventures of Blobbottlebob pants.


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## div2roty (Oct 13, 2010)

Steve, its possible you have too much free time on your hands.  Maybe you need a hobby, like collecting something, maybe something connected with early american history.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 13, 2010)

Today was a slow day for work,I was on the computer all day writing up potential jobs for the coming weeks.I landed a good one today a 20,000 rehab of of a bank.So it was a good day all in all Matt.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 13, 2010)

> Bob hope you like this cartoon


 Like it? Lilke it? Just when I think you couldn't do anything dumber, you come out with something like this AND TOTALLY REDEEM YOURSELF. I love it. (I liked the other stuff too - but not as much as this. I gotta print it or something!


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## BillinMo (Oct 13, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Sorry about that... I didn't mean to toss around jargon.  FOHBC = Federation of Historical Bottle Collectors, aka "the Federation" that folks might mention at bottle shows.   

 I was just poking around their website here  and I could have answered my own question.  Doesn't look like they intervene if there is an ethical question.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 13, 2010)

> Just when I think you couldn't do anything dumber,


 Steve, 
 I hope I didn't offend you with this. I love all of the stuff you've posted here. I had my wife print out the spongeblob cartoon. I need to display it!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 13, 2010)

> Doesn't look like they intervene if there is an ethical question.


 I'm not sure I'd want to either (if I didn't have to). It would sound impressive if the feds were investigating, though.


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## bne74honda (Oct 13, 2010)

WOW. What a fiasco! I've used eBay for many years and have ALWAYS known that when a deal is done, it's done. There's no backing out unless the circumstances are extenuating and you are dealing with a reasonably compassionate and trustworthy individual. You are doing the right thing and you've done it the right way.

 Only time will tell if eBay has any real backbone. Good luck and know you are supported.

 Brian


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 14, 2010)

No offense it  is as funny a statement as what I did.I was stuck home all day no real work to do in the field.I was baby sitting my two neices and they brought their Sponge bob dvds over and it was in my head all day.I saw your name blobbottlebob and heard spongebob  BOB BOB BOB BOB BOB BOB enough all day that my warped mind went to work.I hope your story has a great ending.


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## div2roty (Oct 14, 2010)

> I landed a good one today a 20,000 rehab of of a bank.So it was a good day all in all Matt.


 
 Congrats.  Although I guess that means you won't be selling me those figural bitters out of desperation now.  Haha, just joking.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 14, 2010)

> Only time will tell if eBay has any real backbone. Good luck and know you are supported.


 Thanks Brian,
 I'm not sure what they can do about it either. I guess they could punish him in some way, kick him off maybe. My guess is that he will get a severe warning not to do this again. I presume he will look at his auctions from here on out.[]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 14, 2010)

Steve,
 Spongebob is hilarious. Thanks for doing that cartoon. I'm going to take it to work today and show it off. I'd like to put it in a bottle display area someday. My seven year old loves spongebob and its fun to watch it with him. They are very well written. I thought that everything you did on this post was funny including the mock Judge Judy trial and the Monty Python stuff.

 The line, "Just when I thought you couldn't do anything dumber . . ." is not my own creation. It is from the movie Dumb and Dumber (with Jim Carey and Jeff Daniels). As the title suggests, it is not a very sophisticaed drama but it is funny if you're in the right mood. In the movie, Jeff Daniela's character sells the shaggin' wagon they've spent all of the money on for a little moped. That's when Jim Carey delivers the quote. So, it was meant to be funny.

 This post is the first major interaction I've had with you. I sure am glad that you're around (if you know what I mean).[]


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## cyberdigger (Oct 14, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I think the seller should be bound to the agreement, but there's probably some scuzzoid way to get out of it. I would be pretty ticked about this!


 
 This has been an entertaining post, Steve had some gems! My position is unchanged.. fight for the bottle, Bob..


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 15, 2010)

My green money transfer has finally gone through. The bottle is paid for. We'll see what happens now. At least, the wheels are now rolling. It will be interesting to see if he rejects payment or not. He may keep it, I suppose, and not ship. Then ebay will really have to come down on him. We'll see. Things should start moving on this from here.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 15, 2010)

> This has been an entertaining post, Steve had some gems! My position is unchanged.. fight for the bottle, Bob..


 It sure has been fun. I agree one hundred percent about Steve. Fight is now moving forward. I will keep this post updated.


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## div2roty (Oct 15, 2010)

Good Luck!!


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## bottle_head9 (Oct 15, 2010)

Good luck Bob.I hope it gets insurance if it does get sent..


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 15, 2010)

> Only time will tell if eBay has any real backbone.


 Since ebay IS paypal I doubt they'll bother talking about it. It ain't NATO


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## jays emporium (Oct 15, 2010)

Ebay is going to be on your side because if the transaction is cancelled they don't get their final value fee or paypal fee.  If the seller refuses to deliver the item you can open a case against them.  All you will get is your money back but the seller will receive a strike from ebay plus the negative feedback and low DSR ratings you give them.  Be sure to give them a 1 rating on all 4 of the rating categories.
 If I was that seller I'd just suck it up and send you the bottle rather than taking the low ratings.  That bottle was for sale for 10 days for the whole world to see and it sold for $860. in a fair no-reserve sale.  If you had not bid on it the bottle would have brought only $670.  They should be thanking you for the extra $190.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 15, 2010)

> They should be thanking you for the extra $190.


 I'm not holding my breath for this Jay. Interesting, though, that one day into payment I have seen no rejection, no action from ebay, no anything. If I didn't know better, I would think that everything is normal.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 15, 2010)

Don't expect anything to happen until next week, Bob.. it's _almost_ like asking God for a moment of his time.. []


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

This is very interesting. What do you guys think. Here is an email I just received.


bob,i received your note and receipt of paypal payment of $869.00.after our phone conversation and email exchange,i wanted to have the history of the "citron john graf "since i bought it. 
 [/align]NO1bottle bought on ebay in 2001                             
 [/align][/align]NO2 bottle had small lip chip (you were correct)had repaired,cost $60.00 included ship/ins      
 [/align]NO3 bottle listed on ebay,(buy it know ) price of $1495.00 erroneously left out of listing.
 NO 4 you paid $869.00 claiming you won the bottle because (buy it now) price was omited by mistake.  
 NO 5 i disagreed,and offered a reduction in price of $125.00 plus i would the pay ship/ins which you rejected.  
 in view of the above listed facts,and in order to resolve our buyer,seller dispute,i am offering this solution, 
 pay additional $230.00 which includes ship/ins.if, this is not acceptable,your $869.00 will be returned and i will consider the matter closed .your total cost for the (graf) would be $1100.00.tks,r.j.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2010)

> NO1bottle bought on ebay in 2001


 
 How much did he pay?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2010)

> NO2 bottle had small lip chip (you were correct)had repaired,cost $60.00 included ship/ins


 
 ..the bottle has been repaired/altered


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## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2010)

> NO3 bottle listed on ebay,(buy it know ) price of $1495.00 erroneously left out of listing


 
 Seller's error.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2010)

> NO 4 you paid $869.00 claiming you won the bottle because (buy it now) price was omited by mistake.Â


 
 Won auction according to eBay rules and regs.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2010)

> NO 5 i disagreed,and offered a reduction in price of $125.00 plus i would the pay ship/ins which you rejected.Â
> in view of the above listed facts,and in order to resolve our buyer,seller dispute,i am offering this solution,
> pay additional $230.00 which includes ship/ins.if, this is not acceptable,your $869.00 will be returned and i will consider the matter closed .your total cost for the (graf) would be $1100.00.tks,r.j.


 
 ...(disgusting)...


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

> How much did he pay?


 Man, Chuck. You are all over this!
 One of the reasons I contacted the seller before the auction ended, was that I was the under bidder on one many years ago. I bid $1,000 and just missed winning. The current seller RJ was the winner. The amount it sold for was the next bid increment after $1,000. I think $1,025. Plus, presumably he paid some shipping.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2010)

Well, Bob, looks like my work is done here.. you gonna coff up the 1100 or try to capitalize on the goof?


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

> ..the bottle has been repaired/altered


 I suspected that it might be unless he had managed to find another of these very rare bottles. I did ask specifically about conditions and repairs while the auction was running. He assured me that he thought it was mint and gave me a seven day money back gaurantee if I was not happy (I pay return shipping).


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

> Well, Bob, looks like my work is done here.. you gonna coff up the 1100 or try to capitalize on the goof?


 What say you?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 17, 2010)

Me say he doesn't let it go for less than he paid, even if it costs him a neg feedback.. I don't think..


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

> ...(disgusting)...


 I don't quite know what to make of this offer. I think I did win fair (and round - as Patrick says). This time, however, I don't think his offer is as obnoxious. (Wish he would have done this right away and I'd have thought better of it). Anyway, now I know what he has into the bottle. 

 $1025 original purchase plus shipping and presum. insurance.
 $60 repair
 He is willing to ship it with insurance.
 He has listing fees.

 Add that stuff up and I think that he is below the break even point on it. I don't know if that changes anything (I mean I've lost money on bottles plenty of times), but it does seem at least more reasonable than knocking off $125 from some high number that never came up in the auction.  

 What to do??? 
 I can take it for more than I wanted (and just over what I bid).
 I can stick to my guns come what may.
 I can counter-offer.
 I can just try to get my money back.
 Suggestions?


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 17, 2010)

How many 500.00 plus bottles let alone a 1000,00 does this guy sell a week to warrant him to have you beleive that it was an oversight on his part.Bob I would contact eBay show them this email exchange,and that he purposley left out the repair for the bottle also.If eBay and paypal cant resolve the matter in a short amount of time it would look to be apparent that you will never recieve the bottle.In the end if he is not going to sell you the bottle it is time for you to go on the offensive.I would tell him Ok you can keep the bottle but I will post your name (real name)at this forum and where ever else you can as a seller to avoid.Next leave him the absolute worst feedback rating imagniable.The credibility damage he has received here at this forum already has hurt his selling prices.I would tell him all of this and provide him with the link to this thread.Good luck Steve


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## epackage (Oct 17, 2010)

Tell him to pound salt and stick to your guns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 17, 2010)

I don't recall a repair to the bottle being mentioned in the list. Tell them you want your money back AND the $230 for pain and suffering and you'll drop the whole thing.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 17, 2010)

"CITRON,MUG BASE"JOHN GRAF,MILWAUKEE.WIS"HUTCH SODA BOTTLE.HAS NO  CHIPS,CRACKS OR BRUISES.WILL CONSIDER PAYMENTS OVER A 3 MONTH PERIOD.HAS  (WIS,G CO MILW) EMBOSSED ON HEEL."
If this is the one they misrepresented it


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

> In the end if he is not going to sell you the bottle it is time for you to go on the offensive.


 Hey Steve, Epackage, and Cows,
 Thanks for your continuing input. I'm not sure if its my style to go on the offensive and to try to hurt the seller. I am going to think on it overnight.

 In general, it is in my nature to be forgiving. At this point, if we can't agree on the price (despite the fact that the auction determined the price), how much do I really gain by trying to harm him? I also think that you may have been right Steve. I may have already done some damage to his reputation on this forum. He probably earned the damage, but all in all, there is (at least some) chance that this really was a badly screwed-up mis-listed mistake and that he further botched things by being careless and not following up with the listing. 

 I still think that I personally would have made good on the deal, though.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 17, 2010)

> bob,i received your note and receipt of paypal payment of $869.00.after our phone conversation and email exchange,i wanted to have the history of the "citron john graf "since i bought it.
> 
> NO1bottle bought on ebay in 2001
> 
> ...


 
 what the heck? He is asking you to pay hundreds of dollars for his mistake???
 He may return your money and consider the matter closed but not sure fleabay would. Breach of contract would come to mind here. The seller listing and the buyer bidding have entered into a contract. I'll bet if you accidentally put another zero on your bid and entered $8690 he wouldnt be letting you off so easy. It was a fair auction , you had high bid, end of story. If he cant follow rules he should get off fleabay.

 ps what's the deal with the repair, was that in the listing?  I'd have to think hard about paying that much for a repaired bottle... Brant's maybe...

 PPS - If he does refund money, make sure you dont get stuck with the fee for the money transfer.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

> If he cant follow rules he should get off fleabay.
> 
> ps what's the deal with the repair, was that in the listing? I'd have to think hard about paying that much for a repaired bottle... Brant's maybe...
> 
> PPS - If he does refund money, make sure you dont get stuck with the fee for the money transfer.


 
 Thanks again Gunth for your input on this thread.
 I guess ebay may have to punish him. I doubt they would force him to ship it. They will probably put one strike on his record and warn him not to repeat this mistake.

 As to the repair: I thought before this closed that it might be repaired. (There really are not many of them out there). I was going to make the decision about keeping it when I had it in hand. I was willing to risk the shipping if need be. 
 BTW-If I had won the original listing, I would not have repaired it. I'm sure many would disagree but I am pretty hard-core on cleaning them and letting them be. 
 PS. I'd take a genuine (repaired) Brants for this amount.

 I will watch for the refund when the time comes. I WILL fight any and all fees with every last breath!


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## GuntherHess (Oct 17, 2010)

I think I am like you, a non-combative personality. If someone else wants to be an a - hole , let them but you keep your moral high ground. You have called him out and shown him for what he is. Now (in my personal opinion) you have two choices , accepting the money back or fighting it all the way to the courts with him. Paying his price IS NOT an option, it would just make him a crook and you a sucker.  Personnally I would just take the money back and move on with your life. There are more than one of these bottles in the universe and having good karma may bring an undamaged one to you for a low price.
 Let him put his high buy it now price on it and he can sit there and stare at his broken bottle for the next 10 years.
 Sorry about the rant , I just hate seeing people get ripped off.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 17, 2010)

> Now (in my personal opinion) you have two choices , accepting the money back or fighting it all the way to the courts with him.


 The rant is great Gunth! This stuff is helping me sort it all out.
 No way am I taking him to court. I could sue him easily enough. However, I think that the only remedy a court could offer (given the jurisdictional problems because of how far away we are from each other) would be monetary in nature. I think I can do that outside of the courts.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 18, 2010)

I meant figuratively fighting it as far as you could...


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

Sorry Gunth. I really did think about suing. Can't see how it would work, though.


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## jays emporium (Oct 18, 2010)

Now that the repair issue has come to light I say get your money back and leave the worst feedback possible and move on.  Without your bid that bottle would have sold for $670. with no mention of it being damaged.  If the true condition of the bottle had been mentioned in the ebay description it would not have made it to $500. maybe not $300.  I know it is rare but there are a limited number of buyers looking for that bottle and if you ever had to resell it and gave an accurate description of the condition you would probably lose money too.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> I know it is rare but there are a limited number of buyers looking for that bottle and if you ever had to resell it and gave an accurate description of the condition you would probably lose money too.


 Thanks Jay.
 I'm not sure how the damage issue will affect the price. We'll see when he re-lists it with the more accurate information, I guess. I still haven't quite decided what I'm doing. I agree with Gunth that I am an idiot if I pay more for it than I won it for. That doesn't leave a lot of options. At this point, I plan to politely decline this offer and see what happens next. I am still going to mull it over at work today.


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## saratogadriver (Oct 18, 2010)

I'm with Jay on this one, only I can't speak to the bottle's real value.  It's not my area of collecting.

 I thought the guy was being less than a gentleman reneging on the deal.   Now that I see it was repaired (apparently by seller) and offered as not damaged, I think even less of this guy.  A repaired bottle is "damaged".   It is NOT worth nearly what an undamaged bottle is, and I don't care if it's a Kilmer's Swamp Root or a Bryant's cone.   I'm sure it's rare.  I'm sure it's valuable.  But "repaired" is a significant hit in value, even to a one of a kind bottle.

 I don't trust anyone who deliberately mis-lists an item as to condition.   This guy knows this is repaired and sold it basically as mint anyway.   I now do not believe that his mislisting was an accident either.  Once a liar...

 Jim G




> ORIGINAL: jays emporium
> 
> Now that the repair issue has come to light I say get your money back and leave the worst feedback possible and move on.  Without your bid that bottle would have sold for $670. with no mention of it being damaged.  If the true condition of the bottle had been mentioned in the ebay description it would not have made it to $500. maybe not $300.  I know it is rare but there are a limited number of buyers looking for that bottle and if you ever had to resell it and gave an accurate description of the condition you would probably lose money too.


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## Wangan (Oct 18, 2010)

You can do what you want,but if it were me,I would just get my money back.Unless you plan to keep it for life,you will lose money on any future sale of it.Besides,he seems desperate to get more money than what he paid for a bottle that wasnt worth it to begin with.(Seems he got rooked and wants to get out from under his bad buy).Even if not the case,he should abide by the rules,mistake or no.With my luck a prime example would show up right after I accepted it.Good luck Bob.If you dont accept the bottle I will keep an eye peeled for you if I see another one.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 18, 2010)

> In general, it is in my nature to be forgiving. At this point, if we  can't agree on the price (despite the fact that the auction determined  the price), how much do I really gain by trying to harm him?


 

 That's a great code to live by and you wouldn't gain anything personally. That's another good moral code.
 The issue now would be more protecting future buyers. This may be a more common practice than we know about. Perhaps some haven't noticed, didn't care or were unaware thay you can fill a chip. The point now is it's unethical the say "no chips" when you know full well it has one. Just because you can't see a broken bone doesn't mean it ain't broken.


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## BillinMo (Oct 18, 2010)

I can understand your desire to be forgiving; I think it's great and I would strive for the same ideal.  But Iâ€™m not getting a warm fuzzy feeling about the seller here. 
We have an experienced bottle dealer who sells lots of items on eBay, sometimes for significant amounts. 
He â€œforgetsâ€ to mention a chip that he paid $60.00 to repair, and describes the item as undamaged and unrepaired. 
He â€œforgetsâ€ to set the reserve price. 
He doesnâ€™t bother to check his own items or verify that heâ€™s entered the info correctly. 
It doesnâ€™t sound to me like youâ€™re capitalizing on his mistake.  You bid what you consider to be a reasonable market value for this item, and no one â€“ including at least a few experienced bottle collectors --  was willing to top that bid.  Now he doesnâ€™t want to honor that agreement and he's expecting you to take responsibility for his "mistake."
I'd explain to him that by not paying, you'd end up with the "failed to pay" on your record and you didn't want to accept that.  He's free to refund your money and accept the cloud on his selling record.  You're not attempting to "punish" him or anything of the sort; you're simply fulfilling your end of the bargain and now the rest is up to him.  
While I agree that your chances of getting this bottle are pretty low, this isnâ€™t a huge hobby.  Word gets around.   I suspect when he sets up at the next show, heâ€™s not going to find a lot of eager buyers at his table.


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## jays emporium (Oct 18, 2010)

Looking back over the previous posts I noticed this. 



> One of the reasons I contacted the seller before the auction ended, was that I was the under bidder on one many years ago. I bid $1,000 and just missed winning.


 ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob

  Now consider this hypothetical scenario.  9 years ago this same bottle was on ebay.  There was spirited bidding on the bottle, with no reserve, up to about $500. and then everyone dropped out except you, Bob, and the current owner, R Brown.  You placed an outrageous bid of $1000. that you thought no one in their right mind would top.  R Brown placed his own outrageous snipe bid of $1100. and won the bottle, getting you off the hook for your $1000. bid.  The value of this bottle is now set at $1000.+ and the original seller made out like a bandit.
 Don't know if that is how it happened or not, just interesting speculation.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 18, 2010)

Bob my satarical humor was only meant to calm a bad situation.I know you understood that and I hope it has taken some of the edge off of a very bad situatiuon you are stuck in.With that said however you have paid for the bottle so you need to ask him for the shipping date.How many days have passed since you paid for the item?Is he contractually bound to send the item after a certain amount of days have passed.I have not sold an item on ebay in over two years and do not know where the sellers responisbilty lies.Others here can answer that question for you.Again good luck,HE SHOULD BE KNOCKING 60.00 off the price for non disclosure of the flaw.If you were buying a house at closing you can bet your bottom it would have been deducted from the total


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## epackage (Oct 18, 2010)

Bottom line for me is Bob, this bottle spent it's time well watched and looked at on E-bay, it's a rare bottle and yet your bid was the highest, so in my opionion THAT'S WHAT THE BOTTLE IS WORTH !!!!! Any other bidder could have bid it up higher and nobody chose to do so, the seller has no right in renegging on this auction the same way you wouldn't have the right now to pay for it after winning it. As E-bay says "Your Bid is a Contract".....Do Not let this guy off the hook, if he doesn't do the right hting I will be pounding him on here and every bottle site for the rest of time.....Jim


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

Wow. Again, great responses everyone. I will reply in a few minutes. Here's the email I sent (before I read all of this stuff).

Hey RJ,[/align]I appreciate this new offer but I'm afraid I will not accept it. If anything, the news that the bottle has been repaired / altered would lower the value over what I thought I was bidding on (which was a mint condition example). At this point, with the knowledge of the repair, it seems like you would be offering to sell it for less than the closing price (not more). I'm sorry but I will not accept.[/align]Regards, Bob
[/align]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> But "repaired" is a significant hit in value, even to a one of a kind bottle.


 Hard to disagree with this statement Saratoga. I think I addressed this in my email. And to be honest, I think I might have bid less had he put the word "repaired" in the front of the listing. Amazing how the mistakes, overlooked reserve bids, and condition issues seem to keep piling up. Hmmm.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> If you dont accept the bottle I will keep an eye peeled for you if I see another one.


 Wow. This is more than I have a right to ask for. I'd pay you a finders fee!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> .(Seems he got rooked and wants to get out from under his bad buy).


 Funny, but I may have been the one that rooked him (as the underbidder in the original auction).


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> The issue now would be more protecting future buyers.


 Hey Cows,
 I will follow through with this all the way to the end and I will post appropriate feedback. That may be the best I can do for other ebayers (unless ebay decides to punish him more). I think you're right about listing the repair. From now on, he has no excuse to keave that out of an auction. AS noted above, it should affect what people will pay.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> You're not attempting to "punish" him or anything of the sort; you're simply fulfilling your end of the bargain and now the rest is up to him.


 I think that is as clear and concise a summary of my position as possible Billin. Now, we'll see how things go . . .


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> Now consider this hypothetical scenario. 9 years ago this same bottle was on ebay. There was spirited bidding on the bottle, with no reserve, up to about $500. and then everyone dropped out except you, Bob, and the current owner, R Brown. You placed an outrageous bid of $1000. that you thought no one in their right mind would top. R Brown placed his own outrageous snipe bid of $1100. and won the bottle, getting you off the hook for your $1000. bid. The value of this bottle is now set at $1000.+ and the original seller made out like a bandit.
> Don't know if that is how it happened or not, just interesting speculation.


 Jay, This reads like the actual history. That is almost exactly what happened. The bulk of the bidders fell out at $500 and the two of us jumped high at the end. Now we've established (between the two guys who really wanted it) an extraordinary high value. That original seller must have been ecstatic. I had heard that he had been shopping it around for $400 - (before he listed it). Unfortunatly, I didn't know the guy that found the bottle or I might have had it cheaper years ago!

 Having said all of that, this seller has been known to pay serious money to acquire rare colored sodas. So, as a seller, he expects buyers to similarly dish out.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> Is he contractually bound to send the item after a certain amount of days have passed.


 I think the same kind of remedies would apply from ebay for a non-shipping seller. I would have to report a member and then ebay would get after them.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> HE SHOULD BE KNOCKING 60.00 off the price for non disclosure of the flaw.


 I agree. (And I wish he would). But I'm pretty sure it ain't heading that way.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> it's a rare bottle and yet your bid was the highest, so in my opionion THAT'S WHAT THE BOTTLE IS WORTH !!!!


 Amen to that Jim. I tried to discuss that with him over the phone. I didn't get very far . . .


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## cyberdigger (Oct 18, 2010)

...if I may interject.. 

 Nothing good is coming from this.. it's like Suzanne said... well, I forget what she said but it's the best way to look at it.. especially now...


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> Nothing good is coming from this..


 Chuck,
 I realize that this dispute is going nowhere fast. However, I like to respond to everyone that took the time to offer advice. So, that's what all those replies are. At this point, the ball is out of my hands. I will continue to update, though, as things happen . . .


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## cookie (Oct 18, 2010)

I agree with Jay...this bottle and seller are not worth the effort and worry.....get your money back and leave the proper feedback...there's another bottle out there...


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## cyberdigger (Oct 18, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Nananaaa I mean nothing good can come from that ebay transaction.. this thread is excellent!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> ...there's another bottle out there...


 Hope you're right Cookie.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> this thread is excellent!


 Special thanks have to go out to Steve / Sewell and to you Chuck. You guys are the life of the party.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 18, 2010)

maybe so, but listen to the sage counsel of the others who have posted.. these guys know what they are talking about.. even Steve..


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

Guess what? He refunded me the full amount BEFORE he even got my rejection email. At least four hours earlier! That's funny. He couldn't wait (for me) to refund it.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 18, 2010)

> I mean nothing good can come from that ebay transaction.. this thread is excellent!


 
 I agree, we all profit (in knowledge) from your bad experience...sorry man[]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

I get 80 characters of feedback. Any suggestions? Here's a start.

 After auction closed, seller violates every ebay rule. Refuses to honor deal.


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## epackage (Oct 18, 2010)

Well Bob after seeing he refunded your money I was COMPLETELY PISSED OFF!!!!! I went to one of his current auctions and sent him the following....

 "Hi, I had planned on bidding on this bottle but after eading about you and your treatment of a previous winner of one of your bottles on an online bottle forum I won't be bidding. You appear to be the worst of the worst when it comes to be honest and fair about your auctions. Whatever happened to integrity, your name is being trashed and with good reason, we bottle collectors never forget and we will stick together and continue to bash you for your deceit......"

 This guy has really hit a nerve with me and I'm not even the person he screwed, I will continue to bash him on this site and others and he will continue to get messages from me regarding all of his bottles listed for sale... This isn't over by a long shot.
     Jim


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## epackage (Oct 18, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> I get 80 characters of feedback. Any suggestions? Here's a start.
> 
> After auction closed, seller violates every ebay rule.Â Refuses to honorÂ deal.


 DEADBEAT SELLER, backed out of sale and violated ALL E-Bay rules, A LIAR & A CHEAT !!!!!


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## cyberdigger (Oct 18, 2010)

You Paterson guys are tough!! []


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## GuntherHess (Oct 18, 2010)

just make sure your feedback is honest and true...
 http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&biw=1020&bih=626&q=sued+for+ebay+feedback&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=CgAft6_28TP7XEoeazATJu8H6CQAAAKoEBU_QBZW0


 "seller violates every ebay rule" not sure that is technically true...


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> This isn't over by a long shot.
> Jim


 Jim,
 I really appreciate the support and sentiment but I cannot condone harrassing him. Please, don't do it on my behalf. He's about to get slammed and hopefully ebay will respond appropriately. That's enough for me.

 I agree with Chuck. Don't mess with Patterson!


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 18, 2010)

Thanks Chuck for the vote of confidence,just because I use case law from Judith Sheindlin and spongebobsquare pants doesnt de-mean my good intent does it?[8D]Blobbottlebob keep us posted as my life now revolves around this post.You were the topic of conversation at our dinner table this evening again the third night in a row.Its time to play for keeps Bob


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

After auction close, seller violates core ebay principal. WILL NOT HONOR deal.


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## epackage (Oct 18, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Bob I started out doing it for you but then I realized he sells alot of bottles and that could affect any and all members of this great site, they deserve to know the truth about this butt hole so I will continue to question him and his integrity without involving you in any way shape or form. I don't want to see another member here get screwed on any bottle, whether it's a $5 bottle or an $800 bottle....Only 1 "T" in Paterson NJ.....[].....Patterson NY has 2 of them......[]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> just make sure your feedback is honest and true...


 Interesting link Gunth,
 Of course, I'd have to counter-sue if he dragged me into court.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> Only 1 "T" in Paterson NJ.....


 I am so sorry Jim. It was an honest mistake! I won't do it again. Please, just give me two steps mister and you won't see me no more!


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 18, 2010)

Well as I was designing these pictures he went and refunded your money Bob sorry for that.You have remained a gentleman through out the ordeal
 so this picture about sums it up for me.Sorry again you had to go through all of this and I really hope you find another one real soon.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 18, 2010)

"Interesting link Gunth, 
 Of course, I'd have to counter-sue if he dragged me into court."

 Now you're talking!!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 18, 2010)

> Blobbottlebob keep us posted as my life now revolves around this post.


 Now there's a sad commentary right there.
 I love the doggy picture! Come to think of it, I have never been diving with a dog. Once, a neighborhood mutt followed me into the cold water. He did get out after chomping some waves, though.
 The picture is great. I look a little too happy to shoot that crossbow.


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## epackage (Oct 18, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 LOL...a common mistake that gets me alot of bottles, there are even a few bottles which have it misspelled with two T's....


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 18, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: blobbottlebob
> 
> I am so sorry Jim. It was an honest mistake! I won't do it again. Please, just give me two steps mister and you won't see me no more!


 Since your quoting Skynerd Bob Here are a few songs that seem fitting.Devil In The Bottle, Cry For The Bad Man,Dead Man Walkin'
 ,Gimme Back My Bullets,Saturday night special ect ect.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 19, 2010)

Hi Bob I asked him were the painted white letters original on this bottle
 the Rare Chicago Cobalt Quart Hutchinson Soda
 and also he wasnt hidin no 60 dollar repairs as a lot of that stuff was goin around you know.[][]

 Bob in the end you were  never going to get the bottle.As soon as you amped up the pressure he cowered and took his ball and went home.Someday somewhere another will come along and you will have your day in the sunshine in the mean time I know you feel like this..............................


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## cyberdigger (Oct 19, 2010)

..warm big black pooch? You sure that ain't a big fat cold cat?


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 19, 2010)

The right or left Chuck which one is fat?Looks like a dog in close!!


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## cyberdigger (Oct 19, 2010)

Nahhh. It's a panther..


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 19, 2010)

> just make sure your feedback is honest and true..


 In 80 characters or less? That's a tough thing to do. The DSR is hidden from him for identity but if he all of a sudden goes below 4.5 on anything he'll be able to figure why. Still leave one star across the board.


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## BillinMo (Oct 19, 2010)

I'd strongly encourage you to make sure the feedback is very, very specific, otherwise you're giving him a foothold to say it's malicious.  "Violated ebay prinicples" is too vague.  

 Maybe something like this: 

 Did not honor high bid, raised price 500.00 after auction.  Damage not described.


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## jays emporium (Oct 19, 2010)

and be sure to leave 1 ratings on all the star rating categories.  That hurts more than one negative feedback comment.


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## epackage (Oct 19, 2010)

Here is another feedback, all though positive he fails to mention daMage here as well....POUND THIS DOUCHE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 Thanks.. failed to mention 2 big bruises in the lip Buyer: Member id 2808green ( Feedback Score Of 272)  Sep-28-10 18:34 
   Rare Wisconsin Amber Hutchinson Soda Bottle (#170542119880) US $250.00 View Item Rare Wisconsin Amber Hutchinson Soda Bottle


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 19, 2010)

> Did not honor high bid, raised price 500.00 after auction.  Damage not described.


 Here's a modified to fit version of the above that would fit.
 DIDNâ€™T HONOR HIGH BID-TRIED TO RAISE PRICE $421 &MENTIONED REPAIR AFTER AUCTION

 More important is the emails you got from them. If they were direct contact you should pass them on to ebay, otherwise they have no knowledge of them or the phone records and it's all hearsay unless he admits to it.
Don't loose them


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## GuntherHess (Oct 19, 2010)

if he refunds your money and you didnt mutually agree to cancel the transaction (to ebay) then he would still be charged a big ebay final sale fee. Am I missing something?

 I guess if you accept the refund through paypal  then that amounts to a cancellation to ebay


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

As usual, great stuff guys. As far as I can tell, I have been given a refund whether I wanted it or not. Plus, I earned these EBAY BUCKS (for buying something expensive) and they are now gone. I reported him to ebay over a week ago and I have not yet heard from ebay. I presume that they are working on it but I am going to send it over again. I would be shocked if he tried to deny this, since he took it up with ebay before he ever contacted me.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> and be sure to leave 1 ratings on all the star rating categories. That hurts more than one negative feedback comment.


 Thanks Jay.


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## epackage (Oct 19, 2010)

Please let us know when you leave feedback Bob, I am keeping a close eye on this whole thing.....Jim


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> Did not honor high bid, raised price 500.00 after auction. Damage not described.


 Hey Billin,
 You have a knack for concise. I like this one. I'm going to come close to this I think. It is accurate. It is non-emotional, not angry or upset. Entirely ture and he earned it.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> failed to mention 2 big bruises in the lip Buyer:


 I noticed that feedback Jim. Nice of the guy to leave a positive DESPITE under-reported damage.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> More important is the emails you got from them. If they were direct contact you should pass them on to ebay, otherwise they have no knowledge of them or the phone records and it's all hearsay unless he admits to it.
> Don't loose them


 Okay Cows. Thanks. I'll hang onto this stuff. Its mostly over at this point except that ebay has yet to take action. I'm going to try to keep them on it.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> then he would still be charged a big ebay final sale fee. Am I missing something?
> 
> I guess if you accept the refund through paypal then that amounts to a cancellation to ebay


 I don't know the specifics of what happens now Gunth (in terms of ebay fees etc). I do know that the money just transfered back into my account. I didn't have to accept it. They must assume that I'd want it??


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 19, 2010)

Get your math right to be specific, I didn't. $231 should be the difference from $1100. It was $1100, correct. This has gone on now for awhile and I'm getting lost in it but that's not hard for me to do.


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## beendiggin (Oct 19, 2010)

Wow. What a post.  I'm sorry, Bob.  That seller just didn't play by any rules other than his own.  I can't believe you had to go through that nonsense.  Thanks for being open and posting your ordeal here for us to learn a little something from.  I'm glad the forum has shown how close knit we can be.  It's nice to see we can rely on each other here for that level of support when we've been wronged.  That seller is really dishonest as far as I can tell.  His mistakes should cost him, not you or anyone else.   It's been said, "What goes around, comes around." That goes for everyone, so you should be up for something good to happen next, and he....well you can imagine.   Best of luck in future bottle purchases.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> I'm glad the forum has shown how close knit we can be.


 Thanks Paul. I think that this post has been something really good that came out of the auction. I have had a blast. Probably way more enjoyment than I could have gotten while staring at one pretty colored bottle with the sun glinting through it on a window sill.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> $231 should be the difference


 Cows, 
 This is the correct amount but this difference came only after I emailed him my phonre number, negotiated pricing (down to $1375), reported him to ebay, and paid for the auction. Only then did the difference between the closing bid and the offer go under $500!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

Feedback posted. Special thanks to Billin.

Did not honor winning bid and payment. Wanted more $$$. Also, repair not listed.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 19, 2010)

That's 79 characters if you include the spaces between words. It seems to sum things up appropriately.. the guy had it commin to him..!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2010)

> the guy had it commin to him..!


 Yea. He got it the old fashioned way Chuck. I think it is a fair and reasonable feedback. Maybe a bit detached but that should keep me out of trouble.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 19, 2010)

What has been killing me about this whole event is how a seller on ebay is apparently not accountable for his own mistake. If he forgot to add the reserve to the listing, it's nobody's fault but his own. The auction proceeded without a murmur of impropriety until it ended. Only then did the seller notice a problem... too late.. you were clearly a victim of injustice, Bob.. that bothers me some.. you have got my backing on this dilemma 110%, bro..


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## epackage (Oct 19, 2010)

98.6% isn't low enough for this BS but at least it's something....


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## Bixby Bill (Oct 20, 2010)

I`m sorry that it ended up this way for you. That is a great looking bottle, even if it is damaged. It`s too bad that the seller decided to make up his own eBay rules and expected you to go along because he made a mistake. I think that this seller should run for president, he definitely would fit in with all the other crooks in Washington! Hopefully another good hutch pops upon eBay from an honest seller that you`ll be able to get that will make this citron one look like doggy doo. Maybe a panelled one from Wisconsin in puce with dark green swirls and a full label on the back with a picture of an indian in a canoe and the same picture embossed on the front. And rbrown`s computer will crash that week so he won`t be able to bid against you! If you`re going to dream, you might as well dream big!


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## Wangan (Oct 20, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have given the heads up on wanted bottles to other members here before and only ask the same in kind when I am looking for one myself.


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## Wangan (Oct 20, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 What I meant was he got rooked buying a damaged bottle for more than it was worth if what he says he paid for it is true,if you can believe that.[8|]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 20, 2010)

> I have given the heads up on wanted bottles to other members here before and only ask the same in kind when I am looking for one myself.


 Cool. Thanks. I doubt citron hutches come around very often, but heck, there has to be a few out there somewhere. Thanks again!


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## saratogadriver (Oct 21, 2010)

Your feedback made it on for this guy.    I looked at some of the other feedback mentioned in this string.   Why would someone post positive feedback but say the guy failed to mention two large lip bruises?   If I elected to keep the bottle under those circumstances, I would have left no feedback at all.   

 Jim G


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 21, 2010)

> Your feedback made it on for this guy.


 Yea. I was surprised that the individual ratings weren't hit worse. (Those detailed seller ratings). They are all still in the last star.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 21, 2010)

I am still waiting for some action from ebay regarding seller non-performance. I assume the process is very slow. I will remind them weekly until I get some answers.


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## druggistnut (Oct 22, 2010)

Brown never sells a colored hutch unless he got a better example.
 Funny thing, the guy is a multi-millionaire and I always seem to have trouble with people who have money.
 I think everyone should send him a card. Want his address in Tampa?
 Bill


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## saratogadriver (Oct 22, 2010)

Proving that this is a small hobby community and it never pays to p--s on someone...

 Jim G




> ORIGINAL: druggistnut
> 
> Brown never sells a colored hutch unless he got a better example.
> Funny thing, the guy is a multi-millionaire and I always seem to have trouble with people who have money.
> ...


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## div2roty (Oct 22, 2010)

> Yea. I was surprised that the individual ratings weren't hit worse. (Those detailed seller ratings). They are all still in the last star.


 
 It takes a bit more than one bad feedback, its based on average.  I had a guy leave me negative feedback and all 1's because he claimed a bottle I sold was repaired.  I offered him a full refund, including shipping both ways.  It was a $35ish bottle that I described as damaged (chipping around the lip, which he said was a repair job), and had 6 pics of.  It lowered my ratings to high 4.8s, but I do have 65 ratings.  Its one of the reasons I haven't listed anything since.  The guy was a real jerk about it.  I didn't get online for about 40 hours (because of work and my Dad being in the hospital) and the guy had sent 3 emails complaining.  Each one got more and more threatening.  Ebay hasn't been worth the hassle for me as a seller since.  All that over a $35 bottle too.  Blobbottlebob's case shows how buyers get screwed by online transactions.  I've heard many cases of sellers getting screwed by online transactions.  I often find cheaper bottles at shows (if you hunt hard enough).  I've even bought bottles at shows to list on ebay and make money.  The whole internet thing sickens me at times.  As a full time antique dealer though it was real helpful selling in the winter months when my shop is slow.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 22, 2010)

> I had a guy leave me negative feedback and all 1's because he claimed a bottle I sold was repaired. I offered him a full refund,


 Hey Div2,
 Anybody who refunds money for something that the buyer didn't like deserves a positive feedback just for doing it. Sorry you got slammed like that. I've tried pretty hard to list things accurately when I sell but you never know the personality of the bidders (I guess).


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 22, 2010)

> Brown never sells a colored hutch unless he got a better example.


 Hey Druggist,
 I appreciate the offer of posting his address but I think it wouldn't be nice to harass him (even if he deserves some of it). If he's got a better example, then for sure there may be more of these floating around. That could be good news for me!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 22, 2010)

> it never pays to p--s on someone...


 Words to live by Saratoga.


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## ajohn (Oct 23, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 Oh Bob,we don't want to hassle or threaten him,we'll just let him know that we have a good idea of what he's made up of.And we'll be praying for him[] Anthony-J


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 23, 2010)

> And we'll be praying for him Anthony-J


 There's a nice sentiment AJ.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 23, 2010)

Bob do you have a brother named Steve that also collects? Is he on this forum and what name does he go by.Once again sorry things didnt work out for you with this bottle.There are others you'll just have to be patient.Good luck I will keep my eyes open for you for any sodas or beers from your area.Do you have any interest for this bottle?Its yours if you want it. It might cheer you up. BREWERY/C F ROTHACKER AND SONS /PHILADA. A picture of a large male lion lying down. Located right on his nose is a bullseye in the glass it looks like it is part of his nose though.This alnog with some scratches and light interior cloudiness are the onlly issues.A good cleaning would be helpful.I found this bottle when I was twelve years old 38 years ago.My collection of bottles has gone away from the sodas and beers.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 23, 2010)

Number 2. See what I mean right smack on his nose!!


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 23, 2010)

Number 3


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 24, 2010)

> I found this bottle when I was twelve years old 38 years ago.


 Steve,
 This is such a generous offer. Thank you. I really appreicate it. This bottle was found by you when you were twelve and it is part of your bottle-collecting history and its cool. No way, I could accept. Besides that, I am trying hard to focus on the stuff I acquire because both my basement and garage are close to overflowing. I really appreciate the offer though. Very very nice of you.

 BTW: My brother goes by the handle mrbottles.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 24, 2010)

Bob you are to kind you say all the right things................Just come out and tell me the lions not cool and you have no interest Bob..justt kiddddin[]


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## bottle_head9 (Oct 24, 2010)

Good for you Bob.His feedback is down to a 98.6.  That alone, would put up a red flag for me.I know it is all done by percent and how many transactions, but I always glance at that number.If it isn`t 99 or above, I pass.That number has got to be bothering him..It would bother me.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 24, 2010)

> That number has got to be bothering him..It would bother me.


 I'm not sure. I would have liked to see a bigger hit. Anybody can sell to a nutbag or two who give you a negative for nothing. If he starts to get more, people will notice.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 24, 2010)

> Just come out and tell me the lions not cool


 Ain't no way I could say that. The lion is super cool. I can honestly say that I have no embossed lions in my entire collection. However, this isn't what I collect. That makes it easier to pass on it.

 I have been going through boxes and trying to say "Justify me keeping you" to every bottle. If it doesn't fit into my collection, that helps get rid of quite a bit. Then I take them to work and give them away. People like them - less clutter here. Works for me.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 24, 2010)

Gee Bob.. this place where you work.. are they hiring?? []


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 26, 2010)

Okay. Lets see if this takes . . . My morning coversation with ebay live chat help. Frustration alert for those who get mad easily (DO NOT READ THIS if you are one of them).

10:33:47 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]Hello, thanks for waiting and welcome to eBay Live Help! My name is Rebecka. I apologize for the long wait; we're currently receiving an unexpected high chat volume. We appreciate your patience and I am glad to have the chance to assist you with your concern today. May I have your name please?[/align]10:35:15 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]I have reported a seller who refused to sell me an item I won in an auction style listing. He refunded the money but i never asked for a refund. I am hoping that ebay plans to take some action against him. Can you tell me the status of my complaint?[/align]10:35:32 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]Sorry My name is Bob[/align]10:36:23 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]Hi, Bob. I'm sorry to hear your seller didn't want to go through your purchase. Let me review the information you sent to us about them.[/align]10:37:13 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]Are there other issues you would like me to assist you with before we move on?[/align]10:38:00 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]Thank you. Nothing else today. I tried to file an unsent item thing, but paypal did not allow me to proceed (probably because of the refund).[/align]10:41:58 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]No problem. Unfortunately, since the seller has already been able to refund your payment, you won't be able to file an Item Not Received case through eBay or PayPal. Claims can only be filed for items where payment was received and were never returned by the seller.[/align]10:43:28 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]I understand. Can - or better yet WILL - ebay take some action against the seller? I played by all of the rules and won an auction. After closing the seller basically says no deal unless you pay me more. This is not right.[/align]10:43:43 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]Yes. We reviewed your report about the seller and will take appropriate action on them. However, we protect the privacy of our members, so we can't share the results of our investigation with you.[/align]10:44:21 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]I am directly involved in this case and I would appreciate any and all information you give me.[/align]10:44:47 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]BTW I did not authorize the refund. Paypal just accepted it without any consent or action on my part.[/align]10:45:34 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]I'm afraid I won't be able to share any information about the investigation with you since it's against our Privacy Policies. Rest assured though that the seller will be given the appropriate actions from eBay including giving a warning, canceling a listing, restricting or suspending an account, or removing PowerSeller status.[/align]10:46:14 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]Can you tell me when an action will be taken?[/align]10:47:24 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]That's also part of the details we cannot discuss with you. PayPal doesn't actually need to ask for your consent to have the seller refund your payment. Once the seller hits the Refund option on your payment, it will automatically be returned to your PayPal account.[/align]10:47:53 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]Can you tell me if action has already been taken?[/align]10:48:49 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]No, sorry. Like I've mentioned, we cannot disclose any information about the investigation.[/align]10:50:31 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]I appreciate the need for privacy. However, I feel abused by this seller. He basically gave me a one fingered greeting using ebay and I would like to see some just rewards come right back to him from the tool that he used - specifically ebay![/align]10:52:04 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]AS you can imagine. Telling the victim of abuse that you will not inform them of anything - might just have the opposite effect of a warm fuzzy feeling that ebay is standing beside my rights as a buyer / seller/ ebayer. . . [/align]10:53:15 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]I understand your frustration and I apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. We won't be able to give you anything about what actions will be taken, how and when they will be given to the seller after we are done with our investigation. I can assure you though that we do take these reports seriously and if the seller has been found to be violating eBay policy, it could affect their eBay activities temporarily or even permanently.[/align]10:56:46 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]If this seller did not vilated ebay's policies, then they have no policies. I will continue to monitor this seller. I am looking for VISIBLE results that action has been taken. I will not be happy with ebay if they let this go quietly into the good night. THIS seller abused ebay / paypal and me. If he had any decency, he would have honored the sale whether he liked the price or not. Because of that, I feel that SOME action is required. I can continue to ask for this regularly - or perhaps you guys could take some action and let me know you have taken some action. [/align]10:59:00 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]I'm sorry you feel that way. I hope you understand that I'm just abiding by our Privacy Policies on this matter. You can monitor the seller's activity if you want but we will not be able to provide you any information about what sort of action was taken on them even if you ask us for it everyday.[/align]11:00:42 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]Why is an abusive seller's privacy more important than an abused buyers? I am directly involved in this case. I agree I do not get to decide what ebay's actions will be. However, is it some major privacy violation to email me that SOME ACTION / AN ACTION has been taken against this seller?[/align]11:01:16 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]We're not siding with anyone, if that's what you're concerned about. We simply cannot disclose the information that you are asking for.[/align]11:02:07 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]Can you ask someone who such authority if it would be wrong to report back to me when your investigation is complete?[/align]11:03:31 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Rebecka[/align]I'm sorry, even our supervisors will not be able to give out that information either. It would be against our Privacy Policies. Legal action may be taken against us if we don't abide by those policies.[/align]11:05:43 AM 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




blobbottlebob[/align]I don't get it. I really don't. If you give me no details, how have you given me anything that could be considerd remotely confidential. I already know more about this case / this seller / than I could ever possibly want to. I can't see any harm that I or this seller could inflict on ebay if you tell me your investigation is complete.[/align]


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 26, 2010)

> Gee Bob.. this place where you work.. are they hiring??


 Chuck. If you came to town, I would put in a good word for you right now. However, if its bottles you are after, next time you're in the Milwaukee area, let me know. I'll give you a case of bottles because you are the best, Chuck. You deserve 'em.


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## saratogadriver (Oct 26, 2010)

That dialogue reads in english as "blow off".  You have every right to be frustrated by that.  As the complainant, I would think you would have some right to know what "action" is being taken (if any).

 Jim G


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## GuntherHess (Oct 26, 2010)

Bob you just dont speak Fleabayese. Let me translate : Seller is a bad boy , he no get ice cream after dinner tonight. End of case.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 26, 2010)

> he no get ice cream after dinner tonight. End of case.


 Yea Gunth. That's some serious klunk. They could take such actions as close an auction!


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 26, 2010)

> As the complainant, I would think you would have some right to know what "action" is being taken (if any).


 Saratoga Jim,

 Let me explain this to you (based on my new enlilghtened staus).

 Just because you complain about someone - you do not magically acquire some kind of amazing power that would allow you to see what it is that happens behind the curtain at ebay. IF they did allow people to see behind the curtain, that person might quickly realize that they are disappointed by the gears and wheels. Therefore, ebay must insist that privacy covers everything. 

 (No soup for you!)


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## bostaurus (Oct 26, 2010)

It makes  you wonder what you actually have to do to get in trouble on Ebay.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 26, 2010)

> It makes you wonder what you actually have to do to get in trouble on Ebay.


 Probably question what they are doing in a live chat. Watch, I'm going to get banned for it.


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## GuntherHess (Oct 26, 2010)

> what you actually have to do to get in trouble on Ebay.


 
 Well, selling fire grenades with carbontetrachloride or Civil War loaded Burnside cartridges didnt seem to make them too happy. 

 I would say not paying your final auction fees pi_ss_es them off pretty well.

 Starting a competeing online auction site the the name ______Bay (fill in the blank) REALLY seems to get thier attention.


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## bostaurus (Oct 26, 2010)

So, as long as you do not sell something that will bring a herd of lawyers (or is it a gaggle of lawyers) down on them , problems dismissed with a wave of the royal hand..


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 28, 2010)

It looks like this thread is winding down. IF I can figure out what ebay is doing with the seller - I will post updates as they occur.

 Once again, I want to thank everyone for their kind support. You made a crappy experience on ebay about as fun as it could be. Thanks again. You guys (and gals) are the best!


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## GuntherHess (Oct 28, 2010)

let us know if he relists it.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 29, 2010)

Hmmm. He's got nothing up. Maybe a suspension of some sort?


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## sloughduck (Nov 12, 2010)

How about a "Murder of Lawyers";oops that would insult crows sorry.


> ORIGINAL:  bostaurus
> 
> So, as long as you do not sell something that will bring a herd of lawyers (or is it a gaggle of lawyers) down on them , problems dismissed with a wave of the royal hand..


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## sloughduck (Nov 12, 2010)

Do you have hius seller Id, I don't want to bid on anything he might put on. Thanks


> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> It looks like this thread is winding down. IF I can figure out what ebay is doing with the seller - I will post updates as they occur.
> 
> Once again, I want to thank everyone for their kind support. You made a crappy experience on ebay about as fun as it could be. Thanks again. You guys (and gals)Â are the best!


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## blobbottlebob (Nov 12, 2010)

Hey Slough,
 You must have been catching up on old posts a bit? 

 Here's a link to the auction . . . 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170546754468&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 As far as I can tell, the seller still has nothing up. It could be a supension. It could be that they are taking a little break. Ebay will never tell.


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## blobbottlebob (Nov 30, 2010)

Update.
 I just checked the seller's auctions and he still has nothing up.That means he has taken at least a month off from listing. His feedbacks are winding down with no new transactions. I am still the only negative (but nothing much has been happening). I'll update again for any change in status.


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## cowseatmaize (Nov 30, 2010)

I put them on my watch list back then and haven't seen anything yet. Suspension, change of ID, who knows.


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## epackage (Nov 30, 2010)

I just dropped him from my watch list BBB, hope a lesson has been taught to him on this whole thing....last sale was on the 9th...


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## blobbottlebob (Dec 30, 2010)

Ain't nothing going on, ain't nothing happening at all.


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## div2roty (Dec 31, 2010)

In the past he would list a few things a week for several weeks in a row and then nothing for several weeks/months.  This may be a suspension, but it may not, as it follows his past action.  I bought something from him years ago and have sort of followed his sales since.


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## blobbottlebob (Dec 31, 2010)

Thanks Div2,
 I'm trying to check in from time to time to see if he's back, if he re-lists the one I bought, if he gets any more negatives, etc . . .


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## blobbottlebob (Mar 30, 2011)

Just a little update on my ebay problem from way back. I vowed to keep an eye out on the seller.

Quick update in blue here - skip this part if you know what happened - The seller lists an item on an auction style listing then refused to sell it for the closing price. 

 It looks like the seller is again at least active on ebay. He recently bought a bottle for just over a hundred bucks. He has two feedbacks from things that he bought his year. As far as I can tell, he has not yet sold anything since our little problem but I suppose, it could be whenever he wants. I will continue to update from time to time . . .


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## nailem63 (Apr 3, 2011)

Had same type thing happen couple years ago on E-Bay .
 Was high bidder on a western embossed coffin flask from Marysville.
 Seller did not like price and refused to send me an invoice after repeated attempts 
 to reach seller recieved message from him that he wasnt selling flask and I had never won it


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## blobbottlebob (Apr 4, 2011)

That's a bummer Nails. Did you report the seller to ebay?


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## Starr (Apr 5, 2011)

OMG! Ebay is fun but it can have some real jerks on there sometimes. I think that if your bid was the highest and the bid ended, then you are entitled to the item. It is the sellers loss for not checking everything thoroughly before posting. Keep us all posted...If ebay lets them get by with this, maybe the next time we put something on there for sale...we cry ""OOOPPPSSS! (boo-hoo) that was suppose to be a reserve item!!""Who agrees?


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## blobbottlebob (Apr 6, 2011)

Thanks Starr. I appreicate your sentiment and support. People are not responding much because this happened awhile ago. The post started last October when I first got stiffed by the seller. I am trying to keep an eye out for what happens next. I believe that ebay has indeed taken some action against him because he hasn't listed anything in about 1/2 year. It is clearly against their rules to just back out of a deal but in the end, they can't force him to ship it.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 14, 2011)

Thinking of all the funny stuff Steve / Sewell did on this old post made me want to do a little check on rbrown4134602w. It is approaching the one year anniversary of this ebay fiasco. (I first posted on October 9th but the auction was earlier). 

 Update. September 14th, 2011. Rbrown is un-suspended (assuming that was his punishment). To his credit he has earned 34 positive feedbacks in the last year and only one negative (from me). Looks like he has some decent bottles up including various colored hutches (even a citron one!) but not the one that we squabbled over. Its back to business as usual I guess. This will be my last update. If you're really really bored sometime, go back and look for the pictures that Steve / Sewell made. They are pretty funny.


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## blobbottlebob (Nov 27, 2012)

Wowie! This was a fun trip down memory lane. What a thread! There is some funny shizzle in here. Took me a long time to read it all but it was a blast. Thanks again to all of you for the support and the fun back then.


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