# Mystery Shipwreck



## surfaceone (Jun 2, 2012)

Mystery Ship @National Geographic.


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## Penn Digger (Jun 3, 2012)

Interesting.  Would love to see what the bottles end up being.

 PD


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## towhead (Jun 4, 2012)

Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Steve/sewell (Jun 5, 2012)

Well surf great post,
  What if this ship sank during the Hurricane in the Gulf in the year 1812 during the war. The items on board appear to justify the possibility. This would explain the muskets on board also. http://rediscover1812.com/?p=335    The three ringed decanter in the center of the first picture is of either British or Irish manufacture along with the square half post liquor bottle at the top middle of the first picture and the wine bottle with blue flux contamination on the base seen often in coal fired glass furnaces from Great Britain. The gun type if they turn out to be British, and the bottles along with the pottery should seal the deal as the ship being part of the Great Britain Royal Armada a casualty of the war or the Hurricane or both. Americans at this time and more then anytime in the young country's history would NOT have had any British items on board as the war 1812 was fought over Naval sovereignty and the cheap flood of British made products into the American market.


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## surfaceone (Jun 5, 2012)

"The muskets, as well as several cannons (not pictured), bolster a theory that the ship may have been a privateerâ€”an armed ship for hireâ€”or a well-defended merchant ship.

 According to Cantelas, the armaments beg the question: "What was going on in the Gulf of Mexico when the ship went down?"

 The contents of the wreck, he added, indicate that the ship could have been involved in one of the conflicts at the time, such as the War of 1812 or possibly the Mexican-American War (1846-48)." From.

 Thanks Steve,

 I was hoping you might see this and comment. Do you believe the underwater bottles predate the Mexican-American War period?

 Another article from the Biloxi Sun - Herald speaks of "Among the wreckage were â€œa rather astonishing number of bottles,â€ particularly square gin bottles known as case bottles, as well as wine bottles, Irion said.  

 There were many ceramic cups, plates and bowls that didnâ€™t appear to be cargo. Some were green shell-edged pearl ware, a British import popular in the United States between 1800 and 1830."

 Another later wreck off Bermuda with Wine crate is featured below:




From.




From.


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## Steve/sewell (Jun 5, 2012)

> The contents of the wreck, he added, indicate that the ship could have been involved in one of the conflicts at the time, such as the War of 1812 or possibly the Mexican-American War (1846-48)."


 
 Both the round three ringed decanter and the square half post bottle were the type which were kept by Captains or refilled as needed so to answer your question yes it could have been the Mexican-American war however the other bottles in the picture are from right around the 1800 to 1820 time period.The construction of the ship will help determine somewhat the age of it, but again ships lasted for 30 to 40 years, so even if it was built around 1805 to 1810 it doesn't mean it was sank at that time.The one giveaway would be the clothes if any survived,such as shoes or boots which would have stood a good chance of surviving I would imagine.You can pretty much bet though the ship was from either conflict as it does appear to be a war vessel.


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## surfaceone (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

Hey Steverino,






 Here's another Mystery Wreck that may be the _Scorpion_ of the War of 1812.

19th-Century "Time Capsule" Warship Emerging Near D.C.


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## Steve/sewell (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

Thanks Surf,I have been to the weather station at the Patuxent river. I wonder how close the weather station is to the ship site.


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## NyDigger1 (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

Im sorry i have to point this out but its just painfully obvious. This is an 1880s to 1890s shipwreck because, the gentleman examining the bottle in the picture, hes looking at a florida water medicine from NY, the company only started making that type of bottle in the 1880s.

 Sorry guys, its not as old as you think


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## surfaceone (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

Hey Mike,

 What sort of bottles were they using prior to 1880?

 "Florida Water was introduced by the New York City perfumer (and founder of the original company) Robert I. Murray, in 1808. In 1835 Murray was joined by David Trumbull Lanman and the firm became Murray & Lanman, then David T. Lanman and Co., and in 1861 became Lanman & Kemp. The company states that their product, now sold under the Murray & Lanman brand, still uses the original 1808 formula, and that the current label is also a slightly modified version of the 1808 original." From.

 Have a look over HERE.

 "New York City directories list Murray and Lan- man, druggists, at 69 Water Street from 1835 to 1849; David T. Lanman, druggist, at 69 Water Street from 1836 to 1857; and Lanman and Kemp at 69 Water Street from 1858 to 1870, when they
 relocated to William Street (New-York Historical	89Society 1834-1873). It should be noted that Hol- combe (1979:321) has no history of the Murray and Lanman partnership, while Wilson and Wilson (1971:107) have noted different dates for the part- nership. Continued use of the Murray and Lanman name for Florida Water long after the partnership was dissolved suggests that Florida Water was be- ing made and sold while the partnership still ex- isted-during	the 1830s and 1840s-and	that it had some reputation under that name by the time the partnership ended. Competition in the 19th- century American drug trade discouraged drastic changes in the name or appearance of a product that consumers had come to know and recognize. In short, David Lanman, the remaining partner, may have been reluctant to tamper with a product that had an established reputation and market. Documentary support for an early 19th-century date has not been found. A Murray and Lanmanâ€™s Florida Water label depicted in an advertising pam- phlet has a registration date of 1857 (New-York Historical Society 1834-1873); the earliest news- paper advertisements found thus far for the product date from 1863.

 The date at which the company began to use embossed castor oil bottles for Murray and Lan- manâ€™s Florida Water is also not known. The ad- dress on the bottle in Figure 7 establishes that it wasbeingusedbefore1871,theyearLanmanand Kemp relocated on William Street. Even if old bottle molds continued to be used for making Florida Water bottles, the old address at 69 Water Street would not have been carved into new molds made after 1871. Possibly the shape was used even earlier: directory listings show that, after Lanman and Kempâ€™s store expanded to include 69, 71, and 73 Water Street in 1860, it was never listed again as being at only 69 Water Street. Be- cause the bottle in Figure 7 names only the single address, use of this bottle shape by the company could date to the 1850s. This suggestion is en- hanced-but	not confirmed-by	the Murray and Lanmanâ€™s Florida Water label of long, narrow shape registered in 1857 (New-York Historical So- ciety 1834-1873)."




From.

 The SS Republic went down in 1865.


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## NyDigger1 (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

the version in the picture is the 1880s version, prior they used blank bottles in the same shape (both pontil and not) and had a distinctive colorful paper label. I almost bought an example but it went waaaaayyyyy over my budget. Ive dug the exact same one in an 1890s dump, they had spanish versions of the bottle as well but those werent made until the late 1880s


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## cyberdigger (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

I agree the bottle is 1880's - 90's.. but who knows if this bottle actually came from the shipwreck? It doesn't look 'ocean-etched' enough to me..


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## surfaceone (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*



> ORIGINAL:  NyDigger1
> 
> the version in the picture is the 1880s version, prior they used blank bottles in the same shape (both pontil and not) and had a distinctive colorful paper label. I almost bought an example but it went waaaaayyyyy over my budget. Ive dug the exact same one in an 1890s dump, they had spanish versions of the bottle as well but those werent made until the late 1880s


 
 Mike,

 This guy: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 "NOAA archaeologist Wayne Lusardi measures a 19th-century cologne bottle found in the Mary Celestia wreck. The bottle contains Florida Water, a citrus-scented cologne still made today. The cologne was found in the Mary Celestia's hold, along with the four bottles of wine, a perfume bottle, a hairbrush, and some shoes." From.

"Mary Celeste (or Marie Celestia)
 Sunk in Bermuda Waters on Sep 13, 1864

 The shipwreck that I am describing here is one of Bermuda's most historic shipwrecks with the same name and also known as Mary Celestia. 

 The sleek 225-foot long ship weighed 207 tons. This side paddlewheel steamer was chartered during America's Civil War.
 She was utilized as a blockade-runner while smuggling guns, ammunition, supplies and food for the troops in the South. 

 One of the swiftest of her class, Mary Celeste had made at least five successful trips delivering goods to the south. On September 13, 1864, under the command of captain Sinclair and piloted by a local Bermudian John Virgin, Mary Celeste left for Wilmington, North Carolina. The ship was carrying cargo, which included beef, bacon, ammunition, and much needed rifles for the war effort.  

 The Mary Celeste made an unusually fast run through the east end channel and up the south side of the island. First officer Stuart announced some breakers he had spotted ahead. But the local pilot John who was steering the vessel responded saying that he knew every rock out there in the sea. All on board the ship had to pay dearly for such over confidence. Within seconds, the vessel slammed into a reef and was sinking. 

 The ship's cook had returned to his cabin and never made it out of the sinking ship. He was the only casualty. 

 The wreck lies in 55 feet of water, with one of her paddlewheel frames standing upright like a miniature Ferris wheel. The other paddlewheel of this Bermuda's famous shipwreck lies flat on the sand along with many interesting artifacts such as the boilers, anchor and part of the bow..." From.

 There's a super article from Archeology magazine Right Here.


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## NyDigger1 (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

The wreck could be from that age but what im saying is that the bottle is not, thats all


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## Steve/sewell (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*



> ORIGINAL:  NyDigger1
> 
> Im sorry i have to point this out but its just painfully obvious. This is an 1880s to 1890s shipwreck because, the gentleman examining the bottle in the picture, hes looking at a florida water medicine from NY, the company only started making that type of bottle in the 1880s.
> 
> Sorry guys, its not as old as you think


 NYdigger1, Surf has posted three different ship wrecks the first one is old and was found in the gulf off of Texas,and the booty is period to the war of 1812,the second one is near Washington DC. and judging from the items it too looks like it is from the same war.As far as the third wreck I see your point,but the rest of the items from the Bermuda match up with mid to late 1800s so the archaeologists have their work cut out for them. Just don't paint me with the painfully obvious title I am correct with regards to the first two wrecks.[] Its all surfs fault for lumping them all together.[8D]


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## surfaceone (Jun 9, 2012)

*RE: Another Mystery Shipwreck*

Mike,

 You might wanna write Wayne @NOAA, and the gang at Nat Geo, that they've somehow screwed up their chain of custody, and are promulgating bad archeology upon us.

 Should be an interesting exchange. His contact info is HERE.




From.


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