# Moxie Nerve Food given to me



## epgorge (May 5, 2014)

[attachment=bottles eBay 164.JPG] [attachment=bottles eBay 173.JPG]MOXIE NERVE FOODI was given this Moxie a few years ago. Never been into sodas but this apparently wasn't a refreshment it was a medicine and food. I see there are some Moxie lovers here so I thought I would share. Maybe you can share some history with me. It has Pat 86 on the bottom. I believe it was one of there first. Blob top. Aqua. Snap case mold that I usually figure was around civil war time but this is apparently an 1886 bottle, going from the bottom "pat 86" embossment.Joel [attachment=bottles eBay 175.JPG] [attachment=bottles eBay 173.JPG] [attachment=bottles eBay 164.JPG] [attachment=bottles eBay 175.JPG]


----------



## 2find4me (May 5, 2014)

Very Nice, JohnDeere I know is a Moxie collector.It does look early, I have never seen that version before, it is not embossed Trademark or Lowell, Mass.


----------



## epgorge (May 5, 2014)

2find4me said:
			
		

> Very Nice, JohnDeere I know is a Moxie collector.It does look early, I have never seen that version before, it is not embossed Trademark or Lowell, Mass.


I am to understand it is one of the higher end Moxie bottles to collect. I believe it was a patent pending in 86


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 5, 2014)

That one is very nice, not sure of the year on it, but it is early. It's been a while since I looked in my Moxie bible but I think it is before the Lowell, Mass embossing. I will look it for you when I have a chance. Would you be interested in selling it by any chance?


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 5, 2014)

I'm going to attempt to attach an article cowseatmaize (Eric) sent me a while ago, might shed some light for now...Well cant upload PDFs so I will get back to you on it. PM your email please


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 5, 2014)

Also after reviewing that article I am pretty sure the earlier bottles had Lowell Mass on them I think the patent ran out. So that changes my first post lol.  But again I will double check, I haven't kept up on my Moxie history due to the fact that my local milk bottle obsession has taking over between trying to find out where the dairies were located and operating when. I'll check within the next few days for sure E.


----------



## StorchyTaws (May 5, 2014)

I recently found a Moxie that does not have any embossing on the bottom.  Being new to this collecting, does no embossing on the bottom have any significance?


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 5, 2014)

I did do a quick flip through in one book. It is definitely after the Lowell Mass bottles. My guess on the info I have atm mid 1890s-to early 1900s it was made. Not 1880s. Will get more info. Good night for now.


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 5, 2014)

I think you can, I'll try. It may be too big.


----------



## epgorge (May 6, 2014)

Yes, thanks for the info. Very informative but it still leaves me without knowledge of why the bottom says pat 86 on it. Could it be, it was patent pending, though, the blob top always threw me off on the 1886 date. Not sure when the top came in but I am of the mindset that it was later toward the 1900 to 1920. Anyway. It must have been a short lived bottle manufacturing. Interesting, it was a predecessor to Coca Cola. I am going to sell it but I usually don't sell anything until I know its value or I want to trade it for something I want and don't have. If I can't figure out its value I will put it up for auction and let you know when I do that. BTW, I noticed MoxieJohn, (love John Deer by the way, another good Vermont product!!) is into Massachusetts milk dairies. My wife has a Bates Farm bottle (that I know she would never sell) from Carlisle, MA. She use to get Ice Cream there when she was a kid. Those are a hard find I am to understand. Do you have one of those in your collection? Thanks for the information and feedback on the Moxie.


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 6, 2014)

No I do not. I basically only collect milks from Westport MA and a few surrounding towns if I like the bottle. The 86 might be a manufacturers mark. There's probably some source out there to look it up. Thanks for posting.


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 6, 2014)

Pat Appl and variations are used when filed. Pat etc. when approved. Molds of the "Applied" could be used for some time after approval and stock would also be used up also. Thompson did file with the patent office for the trade mark Nerve Food in 85 but whether it's that or the bottle form I don't know. The general shape is what would be patented though and it has little do do with the top unless it's the closure being patented.Are you confused now? []


----------



## epgorge (May 6, 2014)

Totally. I thought the file you linked us to said they applied for patent but never were approved. The top has to do with dating. Perhaps, it is not a blob top. regardless, it is an odd one. Someone in the know will eventually stumble upon this thread and tell us. This, I am certain.Joel


----------



## epgorge (May 6, 2014)

StorchyTaws said:
			
		

> I recently found a Moxie that does not have any embossing on the bottom.  Being new to this collecting, does no embossing on the bottom have any significance?


Storchy, I believe most Moxies have no embossing on the bottom, so it shouldn't have much bearing on it.Joel


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 6, 2014)

Exactly. ABCO is common on some. But there doesn't need to be any embossing.


----------



## RED Matthews (May 8, 2014)

So I still smile when I read the word Moxie.  When I was in high school we used to go to the Olimpian Ice Cream parlor in Watkins Glen NY and get a Moxie Soda drink.  I would put two asprins in the glass and drink it.  Then go back to school and to the Nurses office and complain about not feeling good.  She would take my temperature and send me home from school. It was seven miles home so I took my time and walked along the south east shore of Seneca lake, trying to get home whe the school bus got there.  
Slippery eale - but it didn't help my learning much.  It was fun anyway   RED M


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 8, 2014)

You slacker you! [] I guess thing never change really.I had all kinds of tricks in my sleeve but none I'm going to say publicly. I don't want to influence to the kids out there. [][]


----------



## epgorge (May 8, 2014)

RED Matthews said:
			
		

> So I still smile when I read the word Moxie.  When I was in high school we used to go to the Olimpian Ice Cream parlor in Watkins Glen NY and get a Moxie Soda drink.  I would put two asprins in the glass and drink it.  Then go back to school and to the Nurses office and complain about not feeling good.  She would take my temperature and send me home from school. It was seven miles home so I took my time and walked along the south east shore of Seneca lake, trying to get home whe the school bus got there.
> Slippery eale - but it didn't help my learning much.  It was fun anyway   RED M


Nice concerts at Watkins Glen, if I remember right and I may not as I tend to forget a lot about that era. It was the 60's after all. So Red, the aspirin actually raised your temperature?JoelJoel


----------



## RED Matthews (May 14, 2014)

So - yes it did,  I just read through this whole thread.  I noticed that the thread started with the picture of a different bottle, and the writer called it a "Snap Case Mold"  > that term needs some more information for me.   RED Matthews.


----------



## epgorge (May 15, 2014)

RED Matthews said:
			
		

> So - yes it did,  I just read through this whole thread.  I noticed that the thread started with the picture of a different bottle, and the writer called it a "Snap Case Mold"  > that term needs some more information for me.   RED Matthews.


Red,You are right. I should have said snap case base. The mold is a hinge mold.http://www.sha.org/bottle/bases.htmIs that better?Joel


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 15, 2014)

Just a little further down the page Joel. Post-bottom moldAnd may or may not have used a Snap-case & Sabot: Some makers could do without if they were real skilled and the mold and base don't have much to so with the use of one.Getting picky, sorry but I wanted to clarify just a wee bit more.


----------



## epgorge (May 15, 2014)

No not picky at all. There is much speculation in dating, as Mr. Lindsey states, though that is the issue here, the date of this bottle. The snap tool was predominately used 1850 to 1860 and was short lived, not to say they were not used after more modern equipment was being invented. I expect this bottle to be mid 1880's to 1900. The "pat 86" (I believe) is the date of the Moxie Patent.EpFrom the page:The sabot and snap-case were innovative and possibly revolutionary tools that replaced the pontil rod almost entirely during the 1850s and to mid-1860s (Scoville 1948; Munsey 1970; Innes 1976; McKearin & Wilson 1978).   On another note; how would you have liked to have been a gaffer's mold boy back then? 4 and 1/2 hours on and one hour off, then, 4 and 1/2 hours more of squatting. Talk about back problems.


----------



## epgorge (May 15, 2014)

Moxie was first patented in 1885 and nothing known in existence to say it was produced prior to that date.http://www.drinkmoxie.com/history.phpJoel


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 15, 2014)

That's commercially. The formula was developed earlier and like Coca Cola sold as a fountain drink/medicine.OK, that's sold but doesn't necessarily mean commercially for patent date purposes.The internet is full of misinformation. Some sources say 1876-78, others later to 1880-82. Others may be different than those, they do have holes. The books they cite probably couldn't find what they really needed at the time either. Still to this day I doubt anyone knows the whole story.If anyone had a bottle with a patent day month year or pat # that would would be great, I'd like to answer the question once and for all. I still think it was "Nerve Food" getting trade marked (or attempting to) in 1885.


----------



## epgorge (May 15, 2014)

*"The internet is full of misinformation"* There is an understatement!! That is why I post where the info comes from. Most all the information I read here, unless otherwise sighted, comes from the internet.The info was corroborated from the web: "The history of Moxie from the Marietta Soda Museum:" It was actually a better selling product than Coca Cola, for a time. Both had cocaine _(According to "Beverages" written by Charles Sulz in 1888, the popular "Nerve Foods" that are being sold use cocaine as their primary ingredient.)_in it, purportedly. It also had sassafras in it until Food and Drug outlawed Sassafras in 1960.Now all that being said, what is your opinion on the pat 86 on the bottom. I doubt it is a mold number.Joel On another note; why am I only a super member? I was a supporter before I revisited after being sick. Do you need more money?


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 15, 2014)

> _According to "Beverages" written by Charles Sulz in 1888, the popular "Nerve Foods" that are being sold use cocaine as their primary ingredient.)_in it, purportedly. It also had sassafras in it until Food and Drug outlawed Sassafras in 1906
> Now all that being said, what is your opinion on the pat 86 on the bottom. I doubt it is a mold number.
> Joel


The sassafras is another sort of mystery. The plant was allowed but safrole had to be out of it. What does that mean? Beats the *** out of me but it started in the early 1960's (not 1906, a reversal of numbers maybe). Again, follow the links and choose the correct one.I have no idea why the supporter badge went away but I know the site is expensive to maintain and at some point the green badges were going to be discontinued. It is hopeful to get something more annual but not required.I personally don't know how he did it for as long as he has but I sure appreciate it. I've donated every year since the day I became a non guest in 2004.I'm not bragging but... okay, maybe I am bragging a bit.[]


----------



## epgorge (May 15, 2014)

*"but safrole had to be out of it. What does that mean? Beats the *** out of me"*You are absolutely correct. The use of safrole in MDMA or "Ecstasy" persuaded the feds to outlaw the ingredient in the 1960's "war on drugs"!


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 16, 2014)

Did you get my PM Joel?


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 16, 2014)

I thought the Diet only had sassafras ?? Also I never heard cocaine to be in it and yes it was more popular than coke and still tastes better


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 16, 2014)

I thought the Diet only had sassafras ?? Also I never heard cocaine to be in it and yes it was more popular than coke and still tastes better


----------



## Dcravosa (May 16, 2014)

True.  Every time I drive from CT to MA for my kids' ice hockey tournaments, I bring home a couple cases.


----------



## epgorge (May 16, 2014)

cowseatmaize said:
			
		

> Did you get my PM Joel?


Yes sir, I did. Thank you very much.


----------



## epgorge (May 16, 2014)

JohnDeereMoxie said:
			
		

> I thought the Diet only had sassafras ?? Also I never heard cocaine to be in it and yes it was more popular than coke and still tastes better


That is a very good point, JohnDeerMoxie. Conventional wisdom and Augustin Thompson would say it *did not* have cocaine in it "or any other harmful ingredients" but in the book "Beverages" written in 1888 by Charles Sultz, it is mentioned that the "Nerve Foods" of the day, had Cocaine in them (http://www.mariettasodamuseum.com/moxie_facts.htm see paragraph 7). Also, this article mentions that if Mr. Thompson was less than truthful about the marketing use of a Lt. Moxie as the founder of the main ingredients, how can we believe him when he says there were "no harmful ingredients" in Moxie. Another salient point, the article mentions, was that the earlier Moxie would cure "nervous exhaustion, loss of manhood, imbecility and helplessness". Cocaine certainly would have done that.So, I can not say it did have Cocaine in it, but there are early era articles that question that just, maybe it did. Please keep in mind that back then Cocaine was not illegal. It was a medicine.Joel


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 16, 2014)

Don't forget it's value to the temperance movement. It stayed off the craving of alcohol and drugs. Words like that anyway, isms and addiction were still mostly in the future.I'll look for that ad, I have it somewhere.


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 16, 2014)

Nice Dean. They don't sell cases of it in SE Mass  gotta settle for a liter. Or a 6 pack sometimes if someone in my family ventures to market basket haha


----------



## Dcravosa (May 16, 2014)

Hannaford's on boston post rd in marlboro


----------



## JohnDeereMoxie (May 17, 2014)

Niccce


----------



## cowseatmaize (May 18, 2014)

I just went to NH and got three 12 packs for $10.  I've never seen a soda in NH that wasn't returnable here in MA so knock off another $1.80. I'll have to check the cans though...................Yup, MA returnable.[]Kind of sounds like a Seinfeld episode, doesn't it? []


----------



## RED Matthews (Jun 16, 2014)

Interesting thread subject 9 especially after my four years of addiction while I was in High School.  Red Matthews


----------

