# Do you think this one would tumble clean?



## bottlekid76 (Oct 18, 2011)

Hi all,

 I seen this bottle on the bay and was wondering if you think it would clean up good after tumbling?

 ~Tim

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/Savannah-Eagle-Soda-/170714610994?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item27bf623d32


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 18, 2011)

Nice bottle, I like the eagle.
 It doesnt look etched bad so it should tumble pretty nice. Need to be careful with the pontil mark.


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 18, 2011)

I think so too Matt. I'm gonna go after it but will just have to see how high it goes... I wanted to ask because i've never had one tumbled with that color effect on it.

 ~Tim


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## andy volkerts (Oct 18, 2011)

[] Should tumble out nicely, cover the pontil with childrens clay or something stickey so it doesnt get tumbled away.......


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 18, 2011)

I've never tumbled a pontil marked soda like that. I've heard people use a rubber ball to protect it. Maybe that's just an old wives tale[]


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## andy volkerts (Oct 18, 2011)

[] What really works best but is kinda hard to get is the liquid rubber you can buy in hobby craft stores to mold items for casting with plaster of paris. the rubber dries quickly and peels off nicely, but the clay works also just a bit messier


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## botlguy (Oct 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bottlekid76
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> ...


 It is just my opinion but shared by many I know, Anyone who would tumble or in any other way disturb the appearance of this bottle should be SHOT. I'm kidding about the shooting of course but you get the point.

 Bottles like this that are found in the area of San Franciisco, sometimes referrred to as Benicia Patina, bring a HUGE premium over non opalized examples. The combination of water, soil and chemicals has to be just right to produce such color.

 I realize that beauty is in the eye of the beholder but I believe this bottle is worth 5 times what it would be worth without the patina.


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## andy volkerts (Oct 18, 2011)

[]  I also agree, but he asked, and I told...........


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 18, 2011)

That's cool Jim. Don't shoot! lol I have mixed feelings about it on a soda tho...

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## rockbot (Oct 19, 2011)

That is the prettiest array of blues I have ever seen on a bottle.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm jumping on this bandwagon with a few lyric lines from a Queen song (not specifically about tumbling).

 Don't do it.
 You got a good thing going now. 
 Don't do it.

 The bottle looks fantastic with the opalizing - iridescence - patena - mineral deposit kinda stuff on it. If you erase the specific history of that example by removing the surface, you have destroyed an important part of its unique history. jmho.


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2011)

Here's what it looks like . . .


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## baltbottles (Oct 19, 2011)

Yeah My opinion is that the bottle looks better in it current state and that a tumble will just make it a green pontiled soda.... And one that really isn't that rare. If you want a clean example just wait awhile and one will come along. Once you remove the oxidation you can not put it back. And I would bet the bottle has some wear and or etching and will probably not clean up that great.

 Chris


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## SC pontil collector (Oct 19, 2011)

In regards to tumbling the bottle, your taking a big chance. You can't see what is underneath all that patina. There could be some heavy etching, a hairline, etc.
 As far as to tumble or not, it rare to find a bottle with such beautiful patina. I have to agree that its not a rare bottle, so its not monetarily worth the risk of tumbling.
 A lot of collectors want to have a beautiful mint looking bottle, but its very rare to find one in this beautiful condition. Its beauty is quite unique.
 sc pontil collector


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 19, 2011)

I see we have alot of Benicia effect fans. Interesting. It does look nice alot of times. It was just a question, I don't own the bottle. I favor it more on pickles, and some figurals. It seems to have spurred up a topic tho in having a bottle with this type of surface cleaned or not. I respect the views and do like the iridescence also on many bottles. It appears to have a slight sick look on this one tho, IMO of course. Thanks for the comments!

 ~Tim


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 19, 2011)

If you think about it... tumbling _any_ bottle erases its history. []

 ~Tim


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

The original question was could it be tumbled well, not should it be tumbled.


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## glass man (Oct 19, 2011)

Many..many of those Savannah sodas...bottles there in general look pretty much like that..cause of course Sav. is close to the ocean..lots of water and sandy soil...man wish I coulda dug there in the early 60s!I read a group would rent a machine [can't remember which] and one guy was standing there after a place had been dug out and there was a WALL OF THE BOTTOMS OF SODAS ..just waiting for him to be schooped out...have seen many many many SAV. Blob Sodas since I started collecting in 74...most looked like yours ...still....da da da,,Tumbling machines...I am sure some came out mint,but they were far in the minority.


 Even tho there are still so many Sav. sodas around they are still popular even in GA.The green with the eagle is nice...never had one...would look great nicely tumbled...but then if you have to sell it....all this blab just to say your call.JAMIE


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## saratogadriver (Oct 19, 2011)

So many voices for that soil patina...   I'd tumble it if it were mine.  There's a beautiful eagle soda hiding under there that'd I'd want to come out.    To each his/her own, obviously...    I like mine like they came off the gaffer's rod given my choice.  Save the patina for the ancient roman glass.

 Jim G


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 19, 2011)

> If you think about it... tumbling any bottle erases its history.


 True true.

 Therefore, I never tumble.


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 19, 2011)

That's initially all I was looking for Matt. I didn't know it was going to draw that much interest.

 ~Tim


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

> tumbling any bottle erases its history


 
 You could say the same about cleaning paintings but they do clean the greatest works of art. 
 I dont think there is a general answer. 
 As with art restoration it needs to be considered on an individual basis.


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 19, 2011)

I agree, and well said. It's definitely a matter of preference. It's been covered so many times. Coins being cleaned has a negative effect for most collectors. Cleaning a dirty or sick bottle vs. one with the colorization of the Benicia could be debated of course, but it still goes back to preference I suppose. A purist collector would have no such thing done, while some want it to look like when it was originally blown. I respect every view and don't believe there is any certain answer.

 ~Tim


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## epackage (Oct 19, 2011)

Personally I would have it cleaned so that I could see what I have, as opposed to having what looks to me like a hunk of junk that only looks good if you're on LSD in a room with black lights and Velvet Elvis paintings...


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## CALDIGR2 (Oct 19, 2011)

Having dug many "Benicia-ized" bottles in that town I am naturally in favor of leaving it as-is. As you well know, the choice is yours, but the bottle may not turn out to your satisfaction. The green Gemendons are not at all uncommon and that example just might be more appealing, and thus more sellable in the future, in it's present condition.


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## SC pontil collector (Oct 19, 2011)

Your right about the original question. Maybe, with all that patina you can't see what is underneath. Many times you find a bubble close to the surface, a pot stone, a hairline, etc. Cleaning it by hand to uncover the condition of the glass would be the safest way.  
 However, its a soda and usually they're fairly tough and usually they can be tumbled.
 sc pontil collector


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## baltbottles (Oct 20, 2011)

Having owned and handeled many attic found pontiled sodas and other bottles. All I can say is tumbling does not restore the surface of the bottle to its original condition. This is a mechanical process where by abrasive compounds are used to remove a thin layer of the glass. Then polish this newly exposed glass to a high gloss, which is totally different feeling and looking to an attic mint surface.

 I don't care what people do with their bottles tumble them smooth for all I care but I hate when people push tumbling as restoration. When in reality there is no preservation of the orginal surface so its just a process of stripping the bottle of its surface and creating a new one out of underlying glass.

 In my opinion tumbled bottles should be looked at as what they really are, *antique bottles with a modern surface*......

 Chris


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## blobbottlebob (Oct 20, 2011)

> In my opinion tumbled bottles should be looked at as what they really are, antique bottles with a modern surface......


 Nice Chris. Amen to that.


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## rockbot (Oct 21, 2011)

Its at $270.00 as is. What would a tumbled one bring? just asking.


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 21, 2011)

So if you had a pretty rare bitters bottle for example, with some light interior stain that could only be removed by a light tumbling, it still wouldn't be an option? Just curious. Myself I believe there are some bottles that a light tumble can help. I'm not saying any bottle needs it with stain, but you don't think it displays better or even helps bring the bottle out some? Again, i'm not talking about _this_ particular soda, when asking this question. I totally understand your thoughts on the glass surface Chris...

 ~Tim


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## Stardust (Oct 21, 2011)

> quote:





> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 [] I like the them both ways although, left alone with the character they were found with they are really unique ~ star


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## baltbottles (Oct 21, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bottlekid76
> 
> So if you had a pretty rare bitters bottle for example, with some light interior stain that could only be removed by a light tumbling, it still wouldn't be an option? Just curious. Myself I believe there are some bottles that a light tumble can help. I'm not saying any bottle needs it with stain, but you don't think it displays better or even helps bring the bottle out some? Again, i'm not talking about _this_ particular soda, when asking this question. I totally understand your thoughts on the glass surface Chris...
> 
> ~Tim


 
 Tim

 I have no problem with tumbling the inside of a bottle. The inside of a bottle never touched the mold and has a very smooth surface. And if tumbling the inside will improve the looks of the bottle then why not. Because you are still keeping the original outside surface intact. I have seen many attic found bottles with inside content stain that a light inside tumbling did a world of good for.

 I'm just against messing with the outer surface of a bottle. The part that I'm going to touch every time I pick up the bottle and look at it.

 If the same bitters had light outside haze I wouldn't do a thing to it just put it on the shelf and enjoy it for what it is a rare antique bottle.

 Chris


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## cyberdigger (Oct 21, 2011)

^ = good answer!! []


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 21, 2011)

Don't say tumbling, I see red when you say tumbling. []  I sent the a bottle, a soda out to be tumbled,the guy said ohh i'm not busy you will have it back in 2 weeks after I receive  it. It has been over 2 months, and the guy never answers emails or calls. To top it off.it was the first and only bottle I ever decided to get tumbled.(never again) I'm not happy with this dude and he knows it. He did respond to my last email,so I'll see what happens.

 If he would have said,It will take 3 months,fine no problem, but he dosen't have good communication skills.,and he said 2 weeks.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 21, 2011)

^ = bummer, dude.. [&o]


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 21, 2011)

That's cool Chris, some folks like a bottle cleaned and others don't. I see both sides of it. I hate when something is over cleaned, that's the worst, but myself I like a light tumble if it's needed, and usually just to take away some stain or haze. Of course, I prefer attic bottles like most of us do. Attic sodas are so extremely tough to find, and they usually command a premium. Which I have no problem paying if it's what I want for my collection. I do respect a purist approach to having a bottle just as it was found. It's interesting to learn other collectors views on these great bottles we all enjoy. I've seen the Benicia effect on some pickles and aqua barrels that look killer, I just prefer sodas to look as they were made myself. Just my thing. Thanks for the input man. []

 Rick- Sound slike you ran into a bad deal, there are some guys that do a great job and are pretty timely tho. It would be real aggrevating tho to have your first bottle cleaned and it turn out that way... I hope it works out.

 ~Tim


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## rockbot (Oct 21, 2011)

Great input Chris. I totally agree.

 Here is an example of one of the rarest and most sought after Hawaii crowns. These bottles are always stained. This was lightly tumbled on the inside to remove
 some of the heaver stains. It still retains a bit of haze.
 Its the only bottle in my collection that was tumbled and I wouldn't want one that wasn't.[] considering what one costs![]


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 21, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bottlekid76
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oh I will get the bottle back,i'm not worried about that the guy is well known,and I know people who know him. I was just anxious to see what it looked like,I didn't want to wait 2 years to see it.


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## baltbottles (Oct 21, 2011)

Rick,

 The guy cleaning your bottle does a good job if you liked cleaned bottles. His turn around time is usually 2-3 months. But if I was going to have something tumbled he is the guy I would go to first.

 Chris


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## baltbottles (Oct 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bottlekid76
> 
> That's cool Chris, some folks like a bottle cleaned and others don't. I see both sides of it. I hate when something is over cleaned, that's the worst, but myself I like a light tumble if it's needed, and usually just to take away some stain or haze. Of course, I prefer attic bottles like most of us do. Attic sodas are so extremely tough to find, and they usually command a premium. Which I have no problem paying if it's what I want for my collection. I do respect a purist approach to having a bottle just as it was found. It's interesting to learn other collectors views on these great bottles we all enjoy. I've seen the Benicia effect on some pickles and aqua barrels that look killer, I just prefer sodas to look as they were made myself. Just my thing. Thanks for the input man. []
> 
> ...


 
 Tim,

 I really don't mind a light cleaning and will still buy a very rare example that was very lightly cleaned as a filler example. But being a soda collector I have seen so many good sodas that are way over cleaned. May of the tumblers out there try to remove all the case wear that sodas accumulate over their life and the only way to do this is by way too much cutting and polishing. This kills the surface of the bottle in my opinion.

 Most other types of bottles don't accumulate much wear during their life. But sodas were used and abused. And in my opinion an over cleaned soda looks far worse then one with stain and wear and one that's been lightly cleaned just usually makes all the wear stand out more. So to me it just seems that most cleaned sodas look worse then if they had just been left alone.

 Chris


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  baltbottles
> 
> Rick,
> 
> ...


 


 Yeah Chris that's what I heard,but like I said he should have never said (2  weeks)  if he had said 3 months off the bat I would have been fine with it. 

  I don't like cleaned bottles,but this one would benefit with a (light  tumble). I sent him that green Seitz with the heavy dark striations.


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 22, 2011)

That green swirled Seitz you have is awesome...

 ~Tim


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## tigue710 (Oct 22, 2011)

Personally I don't like the patina to much, but I dislike a tumbled bottle even more... Nothing worse then an overcleaned bottle...  I don't like labels either, a few bottles I've found in attics with labels I've just washed to labels right off...  I've had opportunities though to buy bottles I really wanted that were labeled and passed on buying them knowing I wouldn't want the label and felt it should be preserved for other collectors... In this case I would pass on this bottle even if I really wanted it to preserve the patina and save a bottle from the fate of tumbling...


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## suzanne (Oct 23, 2011)

Don't be retarded and get it tumbled.  Don't use harsh cleaners on it either.  They dissolve irridescance.


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## epackage (Oct 23, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> Don't be retarded and get it tumbled.Â


 Classy use of the English language, you should be proud....[8|]


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## suzanne (Oct 23, 2011)

Actually, sorry about that.  I think people get carried away.  I have some overcleaned bottles.  They weren't even tumbled.  I use power tools a lot but have gotten better at it since then.  The bottles look great and are on display but their original surface is long gone.  The glass is slick and flat like glass made today.


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## epackage (Oct 23, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> Actually, sorry about that.Â  I think people get carried away.Â  I have some overcleaned bottles.Â  They weren't even tumbled.Â  I use power tools a lot but have gotten better at it since then.Â  The bottles look great and are on display but their original surface is long gone.Â  The glass is slick and flat like glass made today.


 It's all good Suzanne, I know you have your cleaning methods which I remember reading when I first joined here, I have had many posts where I used the incorrect word to get my point across so no harm no foul...Jim


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 23, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bottlekid76
> 
> That green swirled Seitz you have is awesome...
> 
> ~Tim


 
 Thanks Kid,I love it to.


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## andy volkerts (Oct 25, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> Here's what it looks like . . .


 [] Up to $305.00 now


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## botlguy (Oct 26, 2011)

Inquiring minds want to know:   What would it be worth if it were not an unearthed bottle in the same overall condition, without the patina?


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## bottlekid76 (Oct 26, 2011)

I decided not to bid more on this one, congrats to whoever got it if it was anyone from the site []

 All the best,
 ~Tim


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## ncbred (Oct 30, 2011)

I prefer them clean myself.  Especially a bottle like that.  Just like the way they look with a little light behind them.  But I agree, some can be overtumbled.  I've won soda's off of Ebay that nearly all the embossing was worn off of them from inexperienced tumblers.  Couldn't tell by the pics.  Thank god I don't dig or I would have to have my own tumbler.  Can't say what a clean one would sell for but I would suspect right much more.  I know sick or stained straight sided Cokes or Pepsi's in this area sell for a good deal less.  Even as much as half of what a mint or professionally tumbled bottle would sell for.

 I'd have to disagree with the guys saying tumbled bottles had their history erased.  To me, the history of the bottle is with the type of bottle, company who produced the bottles, the brand, the bottler and the town it was from.  Not the natural mineralization that took place after it was discarded.  But I guess thats why we all agree to disagree.


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