# Cutting Time



## acls (Mar 29, 2013)

I have started tumbling bottles this past week.  My first one is spinning right now.  It seems like this whole tumbling thing is going to be a whole lot of fun.  

 Here is my scenario:

 - I am only tumbling the insides of ACL soda bottles
 - Since all of the the bottles I am tumbling are machine made, post 1935 I don't have to worry about soft or delicate glass
 - I am using cut copper
 - For bottles with internal sickness I think I need to use a cutter - 1200 silcon carbide is what I have decided to use
 - The bottles I am tumbling have sick glass, but most aren't extreme cases
 - My tumbler spins pretty fast, between 60 to 70 RPMs

 So my question is how much time would you think I need to cut before moving on to the polishing stage.  I realize this is a tough question that is going to depend on how sick the bottle are, but can anybody give me a starting point?


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## diggerdirect (Mar 29, 2013)

12oo silicon is one of the slower cutters, if you only have stain/light etching and haven't bought any yet the 1500 silicon would be a better bet. It's a very slow cutter that is really more of a hard polish, will remove stain & light etching fairly fast but is forgiving if you happen to let it go to long.

 Either way @ 60 to 70 rpms I'd be checking it at 24 hours. With the 1200 you'll probably do a follow up with aluminum oxide or similar polish after.

 Al


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## T D (Mar 30, 2013)

Matt, my tumbler is turning at 60 RPMs and I regularly use 1200 from 2 to 6 or 7 days.  Generally speaking the tough sickness from bottles in dumps for 100 plus years requires more, I will be surprised if your ACLs need more than a couple of days.  Either tomorrow or Sunday I am going to try my 1st ACL.  Also I believe you will be really pleased after the 1200 and won't need to polish.


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## chosi (Mar 31, 2013)

I've been told by experienced tumbers that anything more than 24 hours with 1200 Grit is overkill.
 I learned that last year, and since then I've been limiting my 1200 Grit tumbles to about 24 hours, always with good results (all stains & sickness removed).
 Your results may vary.


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## acls (Apr 1, 2013)

Thanks for the informatuon guys.  It has been very helpful.  

 I donâ€™t have the 1200 silicon carbide yet, but do happen to have some 1500.  I used it for about 2 days on a bottle and it turned out pretty nice.  I went ahead and finished it off with a day of Aluminum Oxide polish.  Probably could have used a little more time polishing.  If you hold the bottle at the right angle to the light there appears to be a whitish residue.  I am not sure if it is residual polish or if the bottle needed to spin a little longer with some polish.  Tumbling is a lot of fun.  It is bringing new life to some of my old bottles


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## T D (Apr 1, 2013)

Matt, since you're a Squeeze Guy-


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## T D (Apr 1, 2013)

two days with 15 day old 1200/polish mix with 1/2 dose of 1200 added on top of it.  NO polish


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## T D (Apr 1, 2013)

.


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## acls (Apr 1, 2013)

That turned out great Tom.  I thought that 1200 was supposed to leave the glass with a frosted look, and then you remove that frosted look by polishing with AO polish?  Do you think your new 1/2 dose did a little cutting and the old stuff was broken down enough to where it acted as a polish? That tumble sure did improve that Squeeze bottle.  Very cool.


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## T D (Apr 1, 2013)

I have never had glass frost with 1200.  These REALLY sick sodas we dig around here require at least 4 or 5 days both inside and out, and then maybe more on the inside.  I use just polish on VERY light sickness (maybe most of these ACLs will be like that), but 1200 is not going to hurt them.  I try to keep the bottle from becoming too slick and right now I'm constantly trying new combinations- taking it slowly.  Generally, the 1200 grit is going to cut for a few days and then it stops cutting and then the polish will work (on those bottles that I use a combination of both).  I have talked to at least two tumblers around this area that use nothing but 1200 and vary the length of time they use it.  One of those guys says he uses just 1200 on every bottle he tumbles for 5 days.  I don't want to do that on a bottle that I feel doesn't need a lot of attention.  Going back to your question, I had tumbled 2 VERY sick, dug bottles for a total of about 15 days before I tumbled the Squeeze.  I think that batch had about reached it's limit of effectiveness.  Rather than go to the trouble to clean my copper and canister and reload with new cutter (or polish, or both), because I knew that the sickness in the Squeeze was not that heavy, I just added 1/2 a dose of 1200 and ran it for two days.  The worst that could have happened, it could have looked "dirty" and I would have cleaned everything up and run maybe 1/2 a day on 1200.  I really think that just about every ACL that I could imagine would be no worse than a one or maybe two day tumble with 1200.  I have never used 1500, so I can't advise you there.

 The fun part about this is that I'm constantly learning new things that work on different bottles.  There is no right answer, you've just got to keep trying until you find something that works for you.


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## chosi (Apr 1, 2013)

I'm amazed that you never had a frosty look after a tumble with 1200 grit.  I almost always get that frosty look after a tumble with 1200, and have to follow up with 4 days of Aluminum Oxide to remove the frostiness.

 With 1500 Grit, I usually let it tumble for about 4 days.   For 5 years now that has worked fine for me and I almost never get any frostiness.  But ever since about 3 months ago when I started into a new canister of 1500 Grit, I'm finding that my 1500 Grit bottles are coming out a bit frosty looking.  I'm wondering how much quality control there is by the manufacturer of these various polishes.  Or maybe something else changed 3 months ago and I just haven't figured out what it is yet.


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## T D (Apr 1, 2013)

Hey Mike, here is an example of a bottle that I tumbled several days with 1200 grit.  I don't know if it is the glass in these bottles or what, but I really never have had a problem with frosting.  I'm getting to where I am going to use only 1200 or a mix of 1200 and polish.


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## T D (Apr 1, 2013)

.


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## diggerdirect (Apr 1, 2013)

> I'm wondering how much quality control there is by the manufacturer of these various polishes.


 
   I've often wondered the same thing as there does occasionally seem to be a difference batch to batch, even when using the same supplier.

 Al


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## acls (Apr 2, 2013)

What do you guys do to clean the bottle up after a tumble -- soap and water?  Heard someone say they used â€œThe Worksâ€ toilet cleaner.  I have read on here denture tablets,  hydrogen peroxideâ€¦.What works for you?  

 Do you guys go after the inside of your bottle with a bottle brush after a tumble?


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## T D (Apr 2, 2013)

On embossed bottles I dip it in a muriatic acid/water solution then wash it with dish liquid soap and water, and I generally go over it with a brush inside and out.  Now of course DO NOT use the acid on the ACL.  I used just soap and water an brush on the Squeeze bottle and it turned out fine.


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## chosi (Apr 2, 2013)

> ORIGINAL: T D
> Hey Mike, here is an example of a bottle that I tumbled several days with 1200 grit. ...


 
 It's hard to tell from a photo, but it actually looks to me like it could still use some clearing up.  Have you ever thought about following up with a couple days tumble using Aluminum oxide, just to see what happens?

 Here's a photo of one of my aqua bottles that started out stained & kind of sick.  After 1200 grit it looks pretty good, but as you can see from the middle photo it's kind of dark.  If you were to see it in person, the glass would look kind of rough, what I liken to a frosty mug coming out of the freezer (but not quite as frosty).  After the follow-up with aluminum oxide, it looks perfectly clear.


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## chosi (Apr 2, 2013)

Where'd my photo go?  Lemme try again...


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## chosi (Apr 2, 2013)

> ORIGINAL: acls
> What do you guys do to clean the bottle up after a tumble -- soap and water? Heard someone say they used â€œThe Worksâ€ toilet cleaner. I have read on here denture tablets, hydrogen peroxideâ€¦.What works for you?
> Do you guys go after the inside of your bottle with a bottle brush after a tumble?


 
 If I'm lucky, I simply rinse the bottle and that's all it needs.
 Often I get some black residue left on the bottle, in which case I've found that a product called Lime-a-way works best, followed by soap & water, all with a bottle brush.


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## T D (Apr 3, 2013)

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but this is another shot of the bottle.  I guess in the end, with all of us, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.  Now I realize  this is an ugly duckling anyway with the broken top and all, but as far as glass is concerned, considering what it started from, this is about like I like it.  I don't know if it is always the case, but some bottles can start to look too slick.  This bottle has no sickness, but retains the scratches, casewear, and dings that it has acquired over the years.  I don't feel it needs any polish to possibly make it too slick.  Just trying different things all the time to make them turn out like I like it.


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## T D (Apr 3, 2013)

I was reading back over all these posts and I wonder, does anyone think that the consistency of the cutter/polish/copper/water mix could be causing the frosting?  Maybe how much water?  How much copper?  I know this subject may have been gone over in a previous post, but I'm wondering what others may say.  I was fortunate to have a two guys with over 30 years experience each in tumbling guide me when I started.  I have don't know if either has had a problem with frosting in the past.  I'll try to remember to ask tomorrow...


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## andy volkerts (Apr 3, 2013)

I dont feel that the consistency would matter much as I have used quite a few over the years, and have never experienced this haze or frosting effect, I have no idea of what could be causing it except maybe the softness of the glass, as different colors of glass and different glasshouse batches were of different softnesses.........also I dont overclean either, but I dont feel that is a problem, maybe not enough time running would cause the problem??


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## T D (Apr 4, 2013)

This is a follow up of the mixture in my tumbler right now.  I took the Squeeze out and put this Atlanta Koca Nola in with moderate sickness.  I just took it out- so this is three days on a 20 day old 1200/polish mix with a 1/2 dose of 1200 added 5 days ago.  This bottle is for my collection, so I'm completely happy with it.  If I were tumbling for someone else, I probably would tumble for one day more (inside only) to get the faint sickness left in the neck.  It just goes to show that there are probably a thousand different ways to tumble a bottle and mixtures to use-


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## chosi (Apr 5, 2013)

That does look very clear for having been tumbled with 1200 Grit.  So now you've got me currious.  Do you mind if I ask some nosey questions to see if I can figure out what you're doing differently from me?

 - Do you use tap water or bottled water?
 - Is your water considered unusually "hard" or unusually "soft"
 - Do you use copper?
 - Do you fill the inside of the bottle half-way with copper (half-way being most easily determined by turning the bottle on it's side)?
 - Do you put enough water in the bottle so that the water line is about 1/2 inch above the copper?
 - Do you put about 3/4 tsp of 1200 Grit inside the bottle for an 8" tall soda bottle?
 - Do you add anything else inside the bottle besides copper, water & 1200 Grit polish?
 - Do you fill the outside of the bottle about half way with copper?
 - Do you fill the outside of the bottle with water up to about 1/2 inch above the copper?
 - Do you use about 1.5 tsp of 1200 Grit outside the bottle for an 8" tall soda bottle?
 - Do you put anything else outside the bottle besides copper, water & 1200 Grit polish?
 - Do you use a 4" diameter canister for an 8" tall soda bottle?
 - Do you run at about 60 rotations-per-minute?

 I can't think of anything else that might affect the outcome, other than the bottles themselves, but I do everything from iron-pontiled bottles to 50 year old crown-tops.


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## T D (Apr 6, 2013)

Tap water, hard water sorta, copper, with the bottle on the side- half way or a hair more, fill the bottle slap full of water, 1/2 tsp and 1/2 tsp 1200/polish inside, same thing outside, and several variations on this theme on any size bottle,  just depends on what the next bottle needs- sometimes I'll add more of either or both.  Nothing else besides copper, powder, and water, the outside varies with water from almost full to a couple of inches under the top plug, 4 inch canister, yes about 60 RPM.

 It sounds like the only real difference in our two methods (other than the make up of the water maybe) is the amount of water.  I really don't think the amount of powder is the big variable here.  Even though I start out with 1 tsp inside and 1 tsp outside, I usually add to it.  I will generally change everything when it gets so gooey it will barely pour out of the bottle.  Then I'll clean the copper and canister and start over.


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## T D (Apr 6, 2013)

By the way, I left everything just like it was and put a bottle with very mild sickness in it and I am going to check it tomorrow evening (2 days).


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## chosi (Apr 6, 2013)

I think I missunderstood this earlier -
 you use 1/2 tsp of 1200 Grit, and also 1/2 tsp of Aluminum Oxide polish?

 That could be the key difference - I just use the 1200 Grit when I'm trying to get sickness off a bottle.


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## T D (Apr 6, 2013)

Generally- but like I said, I do variations off of this.  Sort of like country cooking, add some of this some of that...all depends on what the bottle looks like... but I have used just 1200 and gotten the same results.


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## bamabottles (Apr 8, 2013)

I have tumbled hundreds of embossed and a handful of acls.  Many will come out looking good with only 1200 grit, and those have harder glass.  The very worst case of sickness can generally be handled by 2 days in 1200 grit.  Majority of cases, though, can be handled with 24 hours of 1200 plus 3 days of alum oxide OR if light sickness then 5 days with 1500 grit. BUT, and here is the difference between my methods and methods of others...  I have learned the hard way that it generally takes a good deal longer to get the insides clean than the outsides.  So, I tumble inside only first.  Those that tumble both inside and outside together are generally overcleaning the outside if they get the inside clean.  Makes sense that the inside would have more stain than outside if you think about it...  100+ years of minerlized water getting into the inside during wet times and evaporating during dry times, many times each year, leaving the residual minerals inside... anyway, if sickness is inside, I put them in a 3 inch canister with 1200 grit and cork the top and spin for 4 days.  Tried different lengths of time, but after taking them out after 2 or 3 and then having to re run it again, i have settled on 4 days inside.  No such thing as overtumbling the inside anyway, so those that don't need 4 days aren't hurt.  Probably only about 5 out of 100 will need more than 4 days, but there are a few that will still have faint stain.  After inside, then either 24 hours of 1200 for full bottle and then 3 days alum oxide or if light stain then 5 days 1500.  After polish, you will still have a very few that have a hazy appearance and that requires 1 more step due to very soft glass... but that is for another discussion.


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## T D (Apr 8, 2013)

I definitely agree with you- I just do the reverse.  I clean both for a shorter period of time, then, if the inside needs more, I do just the inside.  Use the same canister, put a rag in the bottom, wrap the bottle (with stopper, duct tape, and mixture) in a towel, then take a dish towel (rag) and stuff it around the neck.  Put regular stopple on top.  Well my regular one- that is a discussion for another night...


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