# Identify bottles in photo?



## hatchet (Nov 8, 2020)

I'm trying to date a photo and confirm it's location, and I thought identifying the bottles in the photo might help. Don't laugh - I already know this is a real longshot, but on the off chance someone recognizes the bottles, that would be extremely useful information for me. I believe the photo was taken circa 1916, and I think it was taken in western Colorado, near the Ouray/Ridgway area. Below are closeups of some of the bottles (empties). They appear to have a somewhat distinctive diagonal label. The writing is illegible and only a hint of the logo is apparent, as they are just beyond the quality of the photo. Also in the photo was someone drinking from a bottle but it's blurry. The contents were a medium amber. I'm assuming they are beer bottles, but I could well be wrong.


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## UncleBruce (Nov 8, 2020)

hatchet said:


> I'm trying to date a photo and confirm it's location, and I thought identifying the bottles in the photo might help. Don't laugh - I already know this is a real longshot, but on the off chance someone recognizes the bottles, that would be extremely useful information for me. I believe the photo was taken circa 1916, and I think it was taken in western Colorado, near the Ouray/Ridgway area. Below are closeups of some of the bottles (empties). They appear to have a somewhat distinctive diagonal label. The writing is illegible and only a hint of the logo is apparent, as they are just beyond the quality of the photo. Also in the photo was someone drinking from a bottle but it's blurry. The contents were a medium amber. I'm assuming they are beer bottles, but I could well be wrong.


Here you go: http://www.bobkaybeerlabels.com/usnf.htm
Get to lookin'.


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## CanadianBottles (Nov 8, 2020)

They look like tooled lip crown tops, so 1916 could be about right for those, especially if they had been in use for several years already.  That style of diagonal beer label was very common around that time, so identifying that is a lot tougher.


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## Robby Raccoon (Nov 8, 2020)

Any friends in the police, FBI, or photo editing world with software to improve the image beyond the capability of normal editing programs?


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## hatchet (Nov 8, 2020)

I tried Topaz Gigapixel AI, but it didn't help much. It's a small area of a small, 3"x2" photo. So not a lot to work with.


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## UncleBruce (Nov 9, 2020)

hatchet said:


> I tried Topaz Gigapixel AI, but it didn't help much. It's a small area of a small, 3"x2" photo. So not a lot to work with.


You were provided a link above for an index of beer labels.  GO LOOK through them.  Good research requires personal effort.


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## hatchet (Nov 9, 2020)

UncleBruce said:


> You were provided a link above for an index of beer labels.  GO LOOK through them.  Good research requires personal effort.


Yes. I did look at them. All of them. And did not find a match. I understand the need for research effort. 4 years ago we received over 500 photos taken between 1900 to 1920 by two family members (both long dead) and handed down to us. They include Arizona, Montana, Colorado, Pennsylvania, New York, and a few other places. Most are of places, not people, especially scenes of mining, ranching, and railroads. Less than 10 had something written on them. During the past 4 years of research we were able to identify nearly exact locations and dates to all but a handful. I've recently been reaching out to people knowledgeable about certain aspects of those remaining tough ones, and with other folks' help (for which I'm extremely grateful) have been able to solve about half of those so far. When finished researching them, we're donating the lot to a university library, and have already provided digital copies of some of them to the National Park Service and local historical societies in counties where a lot of photos were taken.


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## embe (Nov 9, 2020)

If someone had one in their collection they might immediately recognize the label without the zoom/pixelated issues, so sometimes asking is the more direct route (at least in my experience).  Welcome to the site by the way


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## UncleBruce (Nov 9, 2020)

Try contacting this gentleman Thor Kamfer through his web site




__





						Beer Labels
					

I collect Old Beer Labels and have been Buying & Selling U.S. Beer Labels since 1982.




					www.usbeerlabels.com


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## CanadianBottles (Nov 9, 2020)

The logo looks like a mountain scene.  The old Coors logo was somewhat similar.


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## SODABOB (Nov 11, 2020)

*?*


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## CanadianBottles (Nov 11, 2020)

My problem with it is that it just looks like it's a different mountain.  The one in the old photo looks taller.  I haven't been able to find any other beers with a logo featuring a mountain though.

Edit: I found another one, Tacoma Beer.  This one has a mountain that's more closely shaped to the one in the picture but it's clearly a different design.


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## SODABOB (Nov 11, 2020)




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## embe (Nov 11, 2020)

To me it looks more like a bust (or figure/portrait) than a mountain


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## SODABOB (Nov 11, 2020)

I'm seeing things - such as a French woman wearing a beret and scarf with her right arm in front of her.


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## CanadianBottles (Nov 11, 2020)

Zoomed in I see the bust too.  Someone with long hair and a very prominent chin.  It looks a bit cartoonish though, so I still think a mountain is more likely.


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## hatchet (Nov 11, 2020)

I appreciate the comments. I did ask the person with the large website of beer labels, as recommended in an earlier answer. He was not able to match to a specific label given the lack of detail in my photo, but based on the general label design and the style of bottle, he said the likely time range is 1910 to 1915. He also said that is subject to some error, because labels, once designed, would often be used for 5 or 10 years. He also said unlikely to be earlier than 1905 because of the design, and not later than 1920 because of Prohibition.
I also looked through some other beer label websites but have not found a close match yet. I may have to face that the bottles in the photo won't be able to produce the result I was hoping for (location). I haven't given up yet though.
I did learn some things though. Beer labels are collected (didn't know that), and Prohibition killed off an incredible diversity of beer brands. I had no idea there would be so many different beers (and labels) back then.


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## SODABOB (Nov 12, 2020)

hatchet

Thanks for the challenge - I suppose only time will tell if/when someone is able to identify the label and possibly associate a location and date to it.  The attached image is the best I can come up with - and acknowledge it is just a best guess based on what I think I see - which may or may not be accurate. Please note that I am not suggesting the image on the Gobel tip tray is the same as what I see on the bottle label - I am only including it to provide an example of the type of portrait I think I see. 

Bob


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## SODABOB (Nov 12, 2020)

I hope I'm not overdoing this - but I'm still seeing things - and thought I would share my latest find - which should have a humungous question mark attached to it ...


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## hatchet (Nov 12, 2020)

SODABOB said:


> I hope I'm not overdoing this - but I'm still seeing things - and thought I would share my latest find - which should have a humungous question mark attached to it ...


Although it does look closer than any I've seen so far, Tam O'Shanter was apparently a post-prohibition beer made by American Brewing Company.


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## hemihampton (Nov 12, 2020)

First thing I thought of when I seen it was it looked like a Monk to me. Which were Popular in Brewing Pics, ect.  Pabst is Similiar but Pabst has a Hop Leaf with B (for Best) in the round circle. I'm sure there is hundreds of labels that could look like good candidates. LEON.


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## SODABOB (Nov 13, 2020)

hatchet said:


> Although it does look closer than any I've seen so far, Tam O'Shanter was apparently a post-prohibition beer made by American Brewing Company.




hatchet

I acknowledge that the Tam O'Shanter bottle I used as a comparison was post-prohibition, and attaching another example from 1936 which depicts the slanted label.  However, there are numerous sources that confirm Tam O'Shanter ale was on the market a lot earlier than the 1930s and was sold in bottles at the time.  The attached file is from 1908 and associates Tam O'Shanter ale with the Bartholomay Brewery in Rochester, New York.  Although I am not certain at the moment and need to do some more research, it could be that the American Brewing Company connection didn't occur until sometime in the 1930s.  I don't currently know what their pre-prohibition bottles or labels looked like, but will continue my search and see if I can find out.  By the way, could you please explain again how it was determine that the photo is pre 1920. 

Thanks

Bob


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## SODABOB (Nov 13, 2020)

Here is an example of a Tam O'Shanter bottle from *1908 *- which is from the attached file


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## hatchet (Nov 13, 2020)

SODABOB said:


> By the way, could you please explain again how it was determine that the photo is pre 1920.



The fellow with the beer label website didn't go into detail about why he thought it was pre-prohibition other than mentioning label design. I'm pretty confident it's pre-prohibition because it's a family photo, and all the photos from 1903 to around 1920 look very similar, like they were taken by the same camera. After 1920, photos change to being from more modern cameras. Also, given what I know of the person who took the photo, it's unlikely it was taken after prohibition. Also, there is one person in the photo who is identified, and his age in the photo couldn't be after prohibition.

I may well be wrong or incomplete in what I said about the Tam O'Shanter brand. I found it a difficult thing to search for, as it's not a unique name, making relevant hits harder to find.


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## SODABOB (Nov 13, 2020)

hatchet

Thanks for the info - I wasn't sure and can work with the pre-prohibition era.  I realize the odds of actually identifying and dating the bottle in the photo are slim - but its fun looking anyway - with my main focus being on "long-neck" bottles with a "diagonal" label.  Speaking of which, here is another bottle I am researching.  I have already determined they used a long-neck bottle prior to 1933 and a couple of different labels.  One of their labels depicts the Statue of Liberty in the circle, and another one depicts an Indian Maiden if full head-dress in the circle.  They are from the American Brewery in Rochester, New York. But who knows if its the same bottle like those depicted in the photo. 

( Compare to the bottle in the photo )

*Liberty Beer ~ American Brewing Co. ~ Rochester, New York*


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## embe (Nov 13, 2020)

Getting closer, good research all


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## hemihampton (Nov 13, 2020)

Way off. Original Poster suspected it's a Colorado area bottle, not New York? Maybe Telluride? Century? Silver State?


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## SODABOB (Nov 13, 2020)

Colorado Prohibition - 1916 to 1933 - Four years before national Prohibition - Many breweries went out of business






						Prohibition | Articles | Colorado Encyclopedia
					

Alcohol prohibition in Colorado (1916–33) was a Progressive Era experiment, based on reform-minded and religious sentiments, to completely ban the sale and transport of alcohol.



					coloradoencyclopedia.org
				



.


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## SODABOB (Nov 13, 2020)

I jump around a lot when I'm looking for something elusive - such as this ...

*Pabst Blue Ribbon ~ Pre Prohibition ~ Paper Label Bottle











*


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## hemihampton (Nov 13, 2020)

I mentioned the Pabst earlier but figured the Hop Leaf & B (for Best) in circle was not close enough but similar. any body have Bob Kays Label Book for Colorado? I only have the midwest & Michigan area. LEON.


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## SODABOB (Nov 15, 2020)

Thanks, Leon - I agree - similar but not identical - I'm just considering various possibilities.  Whatever the brand might be in the photo, the key part for me isn't so much the circle logo but the *bold *word or words below the logo - which appear to be four individual words such as a slogan and not just a single word. If we can figure out what those words are we might be able to date and identify the brand.  My best guess at the moment is something like ...

*of a  *???  ????

And would be cool if it turned to be something like "Its The Water" by Olympia beer


This Miller label is not identical either - Its just another Pre Prohibition label for consideration from 1915


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## hemihampton (Nov 15, 2020)

the last word on label in original pic looks like either Beer or Lager?


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## hatchet (Nov 16, 2020)

hemihampton said:


> Way off. Original Poster suspected it's a Colorado area bottle, not New York? Maybe Telluride? Century? Silver State?


I strongly suspect it was taken in Colorado, but I'm not 100% sure. I was hoping that the label would match a Colorado (or neighboring state) beer to confirm what I suspect is the case. The person that took the photo had a ranch in western Colorado from 1915 or 1916 to 1918.  He moved back east in 1918 to train as a naval aviator. He stayed back east after that. Initially I had thought the photo was from after 1918 after he had moved back east. Then on closer inspection I saw a saddle with rope (see photo) in the background of the photo. That made me think it was earlier, from the time he was in Colorado, because that item in the background didn't match the sort of things he was doing in the east. But it's not definitive.

The answer that had the info about prohibition in Colorado was interesting and very helpful. I hadn't known that. If this does turn out to be taken in Colorado, then that would suggest a photo date of 1915/1916 (assuming they didn't get their hands on illegal refreshments).


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## SODABOB (Nov 16, 2020)

hatchet

Thanks for the info. The attached snippets might also shed some light on things.  By the way, would it be possible to see the entire photograph?  There might be something in it that will catch someone's eye and change the course of this discussion.

*National* 





*Colorado*


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## SODABOB (Nov 16, 2020)

I know we have been down this road before and pretty much discounted Coors as being a possible match, but there are a couple of features about the Coors label I wanted to revisit and see if there might be something we are missing.  The one feature more than anything else that keeps haunting me is the mountain on the label - especially on the right side where the mountain slope is curved. I placed arrows on the area I am referring to.  Another aspect (but not specifically indicated in these images) is what I call clouds/shadowing that surround the circle logo.  Those so called cloud-shadows seem to be on the labels in the original photograph - but acknowledge they could be an optical illusion.  Speaking of optical illusions, I can't help but wonder if the lighting / sunlight factor in the photo had a tendency to wash-out some of the details?


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## hatchet (Nov 16, 2020)

SODABOB said:


> I know we have been down this road before and pretty much discounted Coors as being a possible match...


That was my thought too, and before posting here, that's where I spent the most time. The blurry writing looked like it could be something like "A.B.  Coors  Lager". The writing looked like two initials, then a small word, then a larger word. But AB Coors is, I think, a modern name. The founder was Adolph Herman Coors.


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## SODABOB (Nov 16, 2020)

Thanks, hatchet - every little bit helps.  I hate to admit it, but I am close to throwing in the towel and conceding defeat in being able to solve this mystery.  However, I am not giving up just yet and switching my focus to brands of beer that were specific to Colorado. Even though I am still working on this and it will take some time to put together, the following are the brands that were highly advertised in Colorado between 1900 and 1920.  I have found bottles and labels for some of them, but still need to find some more before making a final analyst. Of all the brands listed here, I like Zang's the best.  As seen on their pre prohibition tray, they used a variety of bottles and labels - some of which had diagonal labels. But what I like even better is the fact that their primary logo was a mountain in a circle - which also has a Christian cross. Even though the odds of Zang being the brand in the photo is slim, I suppose it's as good as any that's worthy of consideration - especially when you take into account the photo is blurred and the details might be misleading due to the light factor possibly playing tricks on our eyes. Anyway, here's the list - which I will be adding to as time allows.

Note: There were also a lot of National brands sold in Colorado at the time, but I'm leaving those out and focusing only on those brewed and bottled in Colorado.

Capitol
C. A. Lammers
Columbine
Coors
La Fiesta
Telluride
Tivoli
Vienna Export
Walter's
Zepher

*Zang's











*


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## hemihampton (Nov 16, 2020)

Look into Fisher Brewing co. Salt Lake City Utah?


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## SODABOB (Nov 16, 2020)

hemi

Here are some typical Fisher beer labels - with the majority I have seen being identical or similar.  Most of the examples I saw had a circle logo on them, but the circles were always on the bottom and not the top.  






*However ...*

Your suggestion about Utah beers caused me to look at other brands from that state - which produced the following ...


*1914*


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## hemihampton (Nov 16, 2020)

All 3 of those Fishers appear to be post prohibition from 1930's & 40's. Wonder what a pre pro Fisher may look like. That Regal looks Closer. hmm. LEON.


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## hatchet (Nov 17, 2020)

@SODABOB - that Regal label looks quite close. That's a good find. Apparently it had a short run, being newly introduced in 1914, and Utah Brewing Co. was reported to be closed by 1917. But that still overlaps the date of 1916, when I think my photo was taken. Thanks for finding that!


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

hatchet

Please note that Regal Lager was produced by the Salt Lake City Brewing Co. and not the Utah Brewing Co. I didn't fully research either company, but according to the 1911 newspaper article, the Salt Lake City Brewing Co. was established in 1871. As near as I can determine, Regal Lager was only produced between 1914 and 1917 - which I'm thinking is a coincidence related to the Utah Brewing Co.  I'm attaching a pdf about the Salt Lake City Brewing Co. from 1911 that may be of interest to you.

I thought this ad from 1914 was interesting - it depicts Regal Lager and Fisher Beer side-by-side which was how the ad appeared and not something I created. Speaking of Fisher Beer, the attachments for them are Pre Prohibition and show examples of their bottle and labels. Please note I have seen numerous variations of their label and not entirely sure which labels were used when - other than the 1910 letterhead should give a good idea for that particular year.


















Footnote:

Even though the Regal Larger bottle and label are similar to the bottle and label in the photo, how are we ever going to know for certain whether they are just similar or an identical match?  I don't know the answer at the moment, but will do my best to see if I can find out.


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## hatchet (Nov 17, 2020)

Yes, you are right. I got sidetracked on a unrelated beer story while searching, and the Utah Brewing Co got stuck in my head.
A turn of the century write-up of Salt Lake City Brewing talked about it's capacity and that it shipped to several state in the west, including Colorado. 
If you search Colorado newspapers in the 1915-1918 period for beer adds, you mostly find adds for brew at home, and stories about the beer amendment that tried (and failed) to get an exemption for beer from the state prohibition. One of the arguments for the amendment was that beer wasn't really alcoholic.


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

hatchet

I looked for ads and articles for Regal Lager in every state that borders Colorado, including Kansas, Nebraska, New Mexico, Oklahoma, and Wyoming, and could not find where Regal Lager or Regal Beer was advertised or even mentioned.  Even though I may have missed something, it appears to me that Regal Lager was exclusive to Utah, and specifically to Salt Lake City - although it is highly likely that their distribution territory extended beyond Salt Lake City into various, smaller communities. 

*If *the bottle in your photo is indeed a Regal Lager bottle, then it appears to me there is some major distortion going on, such as the *bold* words *Regal Lager* being washed out due a lighting factor such as sun glare, or possibly some other factor we are not aware of.  The part I like best is the circle logo, which seem to have a LOT of similarities.  ???


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

P.S.

Ever since I tapped into this discussion I have looked at hundreds of pre prohibition beer *labels* and without exception the brand names were clearly visible on the labels - most of which were in bold print. However, no matter how close I look at or enhance the label in the photo, I cannot see anything that is a clear indication of the brand. The only bold word or words on the bottle in the photo are those below the circle logo.  Although inconclusive, I am inclined to believe the bold word or words are indeed the brand name and not just a slogan or some other form of wording. Even though we may never know for certain, I honestly believe the answer to identifying the brand is contained in the bold word or words, but is distorted for some as yet unknown reason.


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

This is what I call a *X-20 *clarity enhancement - which washes out everything that isn't bold.  I am still studying it and will reserve comment until later - but will say I am seeing some "stuff" that I didn't see earlier.


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

Just for the fun of it here are the *X-20 *clarity enhancements for the Regal Lager label ...

*From a 1915 Newspaper Ad






From the actual label I posted earlier



*


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

Just for the record, here are three variations of Coors' Pre Prohibition labels *X-20  *(wash out) ...


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

One more for the road - hatchet's photo *X-20 *Cropped ...


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## hemihampton (Nov 17, 2020)

When I mentioned Fisher I was just going by Memory, I know many years ago when I seen the pre pro Fisher label it had a similar Circle, just couldn't remember where the circle was located on the label. I'm guessing a label from surrounding states of Colorado could be considered fair game if Colorado proves to illusive? LEON.


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

Thanks, Leon

I said earlier that I was reserving comment until later - which I would like to do now.  Even though I am not entirely sure when Coors' used this particular label, most of what I have seen claim it was used around 1919.  I realize that hatchet feels the photo was taken around 1915 or 1916, but because that has not been confirmed with 100% certainty, I believe it allows some leeway that the photo was possibly taken later than 1915 or 1916.  I also realize that the label in the photo appears to be diagonal, and that this particular Coors' label is rectangle, but it isn't so much the shape that attracts my interest about this Coors's label as it is the placement of the circle logo in relation to the words on either side of circle logo. The words I'm referring to are "Coors-Golden" - which I think MIGHT be on either side of the circle logo in the photo but are partially "washed out"   I fully acknowledge that my observations are based entirely on guesswork - but it is the best I can come up with based on the currently available information.  If I'm wrong, and I probably am, I will gladly stand corrected. I only have one rule when it comes to this sort of thing - which is "No hitting with sticks or other blunt objects"


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

*Bonus Round*

(or should I say "Bogus Round")

*





*


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## SODABOB (Nov 17, 2020)

hatchet

I hope you don't mind that I hijacked your thread and bombarded it with a lot of wild stuff, and apologize if I went too far outside of the box, but the majority of my observations and comments were primarily based on the years you attributed to when you believe the photo was taken - which you narrowed down to around 1915 or 1916.  Even though those years may very well be accurate, in order to narrow it down even more with a greater measure of certainty, I highly recommend that you take it to a photography expert who should be able to tell you, based on the type of paper, etc; exactly when it was taken.  Its not that I doubt your estimation, but rather that I have learned from personal experience that we can sometimes be mistaken about certain things no matter how overwhelming the circumstantial evidence may seem.  An example of this involved a photograph I have of my parents that I was certain was taken in the mid 1940s. But as it turned out it was taken in the late 1950s. I won't bore you with the details as to how it was determined to be from the late 1950s, other than to say it was my older brother who finally figured it out. Although I can't say for certain, I suspect a photo expert won't charge you to examine it. If he or she knows their stuff they should be able to tell you lickety-split when it was taken - maybe?    

Anyhoo, this pretty much concludes my participation because I have hit a dead-end and can't think of anything that I haven't already contributed.  I also want to take this opportunity to thank you for sharing your photo - there is nothing I like better than a good bottle mystery.

Bob


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## SODABOB (Nov 18, 2020)

*My Final Analyst  /  Inconclusive  /  Possible?*

I'm not sure when this particular Coors label was used but trying my best to find out


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## SODABOB (Nov 18, 2020)

*The Plot Thickens ...*

I know I said I was calling it quits, and apologize for any confusion, but a recent discovery might shed some light on this discussion that will be of interest.  Even though this still centers on my belief that the Coors Golden Quality Brew label might be the same label in hatchet's photo, which I acknowledge is inconclusive, I am seeing some indications that Coors Golden Quality Brew was some type of near beer or soft drink and not a real beer. As you can see in the attached ad from *1928 *it is listed along with Nehi as a leading drink.  As we know, Prohibition was in full effect in 1928 and would not end until 1933.  Also notice that the ad was published in a Kansas newspaper.  If you do a quick Google search you will see where Kansas had one of the longest periods of Prohibition in the country. And yet, I have seen similar ads like this in Kansas newspapers as late as 1930. Similar ads appear in other states during the same time period, including Iowa and California.  I selected this particular ad because it was the earliest one I could find. It is also interesting that Colorado and Kansas border one another.


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## hatchet (Nov 18, 2020)

@SODABOB  - I appreciate all your work. I think there may be too many options (so many labels back then...way more than I imagined!) and the image to poor. I would feel bad if you put more time into it after how much you've done. Although there's not solid answer, the suggestions have been helpful. I got hold of a lower power microscope (my magnifier wasn't strong enough). Through that, the emblem looks like a butte against distant mountains, with trees on either side of the butte. It didn't photograph well, but it's a tiny bit better than my scan I'm attaching before closing out. It may be more fruitful to try and ID the people in the photo. I know who one of them is, so his apparent age, plus the characteristics of the photo in context to all the other 500+ photos in the collection makes me confident the photo is pre-prohibition. Unfortunately the one person in the photo I know the identity of lived back east, but was a part owner of the ranch, so he could be in either place. Thanks for the help everybody.


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## SODABOB (Nov 18, 2020)

Thanks, hatchet.  I agree - lots of possibilities.  I got hung up on Coors because ...

1.  It was a Colorado brand
2. The circle logo looked similar
3. The bold words below the logo
4. Long neck, aqua bottle
5. Etc; etc.

You never said if the photo was taken inside or outside, such as a picnic outing.  If it was a picnic, the bottles might have been put on ice, which might have effected the labels, which might explain the distortion. ( Lots of "might's" )    

Regarding the time period, I will leave-off with this snippet from 1917 - which appeared in about a dozen different states at the same time. 

Thanks, again - it was a fun ride while it lasted

Bob

*1917*


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