# HIRES ROOT BEER ~ vs ~ VERNOR'S GINGER ALE



## SODABOB

*Which brand is America's oldest continuously produced soda pop?*

This a spin-off of a thread started by member iggyworf on June 9, 2016 titled ... 

"Vernors Ginger Ale 150th B-Day"

Here's the link ...

https://www.antique-bottles.net/showthread.php?686953-Vernors-Ginger-Ale-150th-B-Day

Those of you who followed that thread, or are familiar with the various Vernor's histories, are aware of the popular belief that Vernor's Ginger Ale was developed and first sold in 1866 at James Vernor's drug store in Detroit, Michigan. I questioned the 1866 origin date because the earliest time-period reference I could find for Vernor's Ginger Ale was from 1884 ...

The Detroit Free Press newspaper ~ June 28, 1884


 

Whereas ...

The (current) earliest time-period reference I can find for Hires Root Beer is 1878 ...

The Indiana Progress newspaper ~ July 25, 1878



(To be continued with much more, including Hires Root Beer claim about originating in 1876)


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## SODABOB

Brief history about Charles Elmer Hires and Hires Root Beer ...

Charles E. Hires is best known as the originator of Hires Root Beer, a soft drink which gained great popularity in the 1870s. Hires began his career as a pharmacist and sold a variety of health remedies and flavoring extracts before introducing root beer as a healthful and refreshing alternative to beer. He also sold ginger ale which was called champanale. While soft drinks were at the heart of his enterprise, he was a pioneer in manufacturing condensed milk and had factories in towns near dairy centers including Malvern, Pennsylvania. His Purock Water Company distributed spring water around the region and Hires water coolers were found in many Philadelphia area buildings. Hires sugar plantations in Cuba supplied his bottling plants around the country. Hires is seen as one of the pioneers of modern advertising, using trade cards and then magazine, newspaper and radio advertising to sell his products. Hires Root Beer was a staple of most soda fountains and an item popular for home production.

Hires first wife was Clara Kate Smith, a Quaker lady, who was the mother of his six children. Their children attended local Quaker schools...his sons rode horseback to Haverford School. After 35 years of marriage, Clara died and Charles went through an agonizing period of grief. After his second marriage to "Miss E," Emma Waln, member of a prominent old Quaker family, Hires financed the restoration of Merion Friends Meeting, wrote a history of that historic house of worship, and was actively involved with Friends Central Schools move to Lower Merion Township. Hires five children pursued various careers. His son Charles worked his way up through the company to become its president in 1923. His home was on Remington Road in Wynnewood. Harrison worked for the family company but also had a lively interest in the arts, writing several books of poetry. Son J. Edgar was an engineer and in the 1920s and 30s lived on Linwood Avenue in Ardmore. Next door lived his sister, Linda, a graduate of Wellesley who was trained as an architect. The youngest daughter, Clara, became a botanist. 


Charles Elmer Hires served free glasses of his recently perfected root beer from a booth at the 1876 Philadelphia Exhibition, a refreshing treat for thirsty fair goers. The average daily attendance at the fair was never greater than 34,000 between May and August, which was partly the result of a devastating heat wave. The average daily attendance in September and October spiked to roughly 80,000 and 100,000, respectively. Visitors to Hires' booth could purchase 25-cent packages of the dried roots, herbs, and bark that went into his root beer, along with three-ounce bottles of condensed extract. The following year, a local newspaper publisher convinced Hires to advertise his root beer, and the rest was history.


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## SODABOB

Meet ...

*Charles Elmer Hires*

Born: August 19, 1851
Died: July 31, 1937


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## SODABOB

Every history ever written about Hires Root Beer claims it was first introduced at the 1876 International Exposition in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Even though I have not been able to find a time-period reference for Hires Root Beer from 1876 or 1877, I have no logical reason to doubt the claim and believe its just a matter of time before I, or someone else, does find one.


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## SODABOB

By the way ...

Did ja know (or notice in some of the information I already posted) that Hires Root Beer was not only available as a liquid extract in the beginning, but that it was also available in a "dried" "powered" version? 

(More about this later)


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## SODABOB

Even though I'm still searching for accounts published in 1876-1877, it appears that Hires Root Beer really took off in 1878 (Which the 1878 newspaper snippet I posted earlier confirms, and which continued to be advertised nonstop from 1878 on). 

Speaking of which ...

Here's an 1893 Hires calendar that has some interesting information on the back of it.

View attachment 175584 

View attachment 175585 

Notice the 1878 date ...

View attachment 175586

...


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## SODABOB

I think its extremely interesting that Charles Hires and James Vernor were both listed as druggist in the ...

*1880 U.S. Census

*Charles Hires ...

"Druggist"





James Vernor ...

"Keep Drug Store"


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## SODABOB

Speaking of the 1880s ... 

I recently purchased this 1885 "Hires Diary" that I consider one of the rarest pieces of soda pop memorabilia ever produced. It precedes other major brands such as Coca Cola (1886) and Pepsi Cola (Brad's Drink 1893 / Pepsi Cola 1898). I have done an extensive search for another example of this book, but have not been able to find one. Thus, I currently consider it a one of a kind / only known example. 

Its a true diary of sorts and has an 1885 calendar as well as blank pages for every day of the year from January 1st 1885 to December 31st 1885. It was a promotional item intended for the general public as a means to keep track of daily events as well as to keep track of health related concerns such as prescriptions, etc. It also has several pages of testimonials from named individuals who were speaking on behalf of the benefits derived from drinking Hires Root Beer which, like Coca Cola and other early brands, was first promoted because of its medicinal attributes.

Measures 5" x 3"

 

With 128 pages and extremely small text





This next page is especially interesting because it depicts the image of a Hires Root Beer "Package" which was the box the "dried" "powdered" extract used to come in. I have done an extensive search for an original box like the one depicted here but have not been able to find one. They must be extremely rare!


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## SODABOB

P.S.

In the Vernor's thread I offered a free ACL Book (Rick Sweeney 2002) to the first individual who could find and post ...

1. A time-period (1860s-1870s) document/publication that confirmed the existence of Vernor's Ginger Ale earlier than 1880. 

2. A time-period document/publication that confirmed James Vernor had a full-service soda fountain in his drug store earlier than 1880. 

3. Another example and/or unquestionable reference for the 1885 Hires Diary I just posted images of. 

To those I would like to add ...

4. I will send a free ACL Book to the first individual who can find and post a picture of an original Hires Root Beer "Package/Box" like the one depicted in the 1885 Hires Diary. 

Signed,

Sodabob


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## SODABOB

Here's a picture of Rick Sweeney's 2002 ACL Book for those who are not familiar with it. I have several like-new, uncirculated copies that I currently sell for $60.00 each. If all four of the above are found and posted, I'm prepared to give away four of these books ... 

View attachment 175595


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## SODABOB

Please Note ...

It is not my intent to post a never-ending array of Hires Root Beer pictures, documents, and histories. I only intend to post just enough of that type of material to establish ... 

1. That Hires Root Beer originated in 1876.

2. That Hires Root Beer might be the oldest continuously produced soda pop in the United States.

3. That Hires Root Beer might have been carbonated and bottled before Vernor's Ginger Ale. 

Footnote: 

The use of the term "soda pop" applies to Hires extract as well as Vernor's extract regardless of the fact that the term "soda pop" generally refers to carbonated and bottled soda pop. With the main emphasis being able to find the earliest time-period use of the words ... 

1. Hires Root Beer (Currently at 1878)

and ...

2. Vernor's Ginger Ale (Currently at 1884)


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## SODABOB

Speaking of carbonated/bottled Hires Root Beer ...

Most of the historical accounts claim it was first bottled in 1893 or 1894. Which might be correct, but the earliest time-period references I can find so far are from 1895 ...

Note: I'm not 100% certain, but I believe these references would be for "blob-top" bottles and not "crown-top" bottles. As near as I can determine, the first "crown-top" bottle was used in 1897. 

Altoona, Pennsylvania ~ June 17, 1895




Dixon, Illinois ~ July 3, 1895



Wilkes-Barr, Pennsylvania ~ July 17, 1895


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## Eric

Just saw this thread Has anyone contacted the Vernor's company about their claim of being around since 1866...
What about Schweppes being bottle since 1783?


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## SODABOB

Eric

Thanks for stopping by. 

For Schweppes you typed 1983. But I know you meant 1783. If you edit it I will edit mine. 

Anyway, you'll have to ask someone else about what the current manufacture of Vernor's Ginger Ale has to say. As far as I know, its currently being produced by the Plano, Texas Dr. Pepper Snapple Group, and believe they claim it was developed and first served in 1866. 

As for Schweppes, I don't know their entire story, but there could have been gaps when it was not produced, thus eliminating it from the "Continuously Produced" category. I'm really not sure. Perhaps you can investigate it and see what you can find.


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## SODABOB

Reminder ...

Neither Hires Root Beer nor Vernor's Ginger Ale is claiming to be the "oldest" and/or "first" soda pop ever produced in the United States. That distinction goes to ... ? As I mentioned a minute ago, the claims being discussed here are only for the oldest "continuously produced" soda pop. There were hundreds of brands that came and went over the years, but only a handful of them were continuously produced from their conception to the present.


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## SODABOB

Back to carbonated bottles ...

The earliest time-period references I'm aware of for Vernor's Ginger Ale being carbonated and bottled are from ...

This 1897 Vernor's Ginger Ale receipt - but only because it depicts a picture of and list Siphon bottles, which might explain the various other references that claim it was first bottled in 1896-97 

 

Even this time-period publication is a little vague as to whether its referring to the extract or the carbonated version. But because it mentions a "bottle rebate" I acknowledge that it is probably referring to a returnable, carbonated-type bottle. But whichever it refers to, it's the still earliest reference I'm aware of for Vernor's Ginger Ale being bottled in a carbonated form other than for the somewhat vague 1897 siphon bottle receipt. 

1902


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## SODABOB

Are these the earliest carbonated bottles for the two brands being discussed*?*

Hires Root Beer (Blob-top)

View attachment 175602 

Vernor's Ginger Ale (Crown-top) 

View attachment 175603 

View attachment 175604


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## SODABOB

These are the earliest time-period references I'm aware of for "Crown-top" Hires Root Beer bottles ...

Life Magazine ~ 1897

View attachment 175605

Cosmopolitan Magazine ~ 1897

View attachment 175606

Harper's Weekly magazine ~ 1897

View attachment 175607

And look something like this ...

View attachment 175608


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## SODABOB

First pertinent question of many ...

Why are there numerous pre-1880 time-period references for "Hires Root Beer" but not a single pre-1880 time-period reference for "Vernor's Ginger Ale"


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## VernorsGuy

Dr Pepper Snapple Group owns all three pops: Schweppes, Vernor's and Hires. Vernor's claim is _America's_ oldest continuously produced pop, because Schweppes is uncontested as the oldest of all pops that still exist today. 

DPSG puts Schweppes at 1783, Vernor's at 1866 and Hires at 1876. Due to the DPSG ownership of the A&W root beer brand, Hires has taken a back seat. It is no longer sold in Canada and is rarely found in the United States. 

DPSG notes that Charles Hires was the first businessman to agressively advertise his product, which is why so much evidence can be found for his root beer. James Vernor, on the other hand, thought his soda fountain was getting in the way of his druggist business. 

Schweppes does deserve much more credit than just being the oldest. It is the _original_ soda pop as Jacob Schweppe patented the method for carbonating water. (Earlier drinks were carbonated naturally through fermentation. In 1750, a method was discovered to artificially carbonate water. Joseph Priestly, in 1767, discovered the basic method that Scheweppe would eventually refine for his brand.) Any other brand that followed used his methodology. Schweppes is known as an English soda pop, yet it originated in Switzerland.


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## hemihampton

Picture of the Hires 1897 Crown
 Top bottle. LEON.


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## SODABOB

Keith

Welcome aboard! 

Nice to hear from you. As you know, I'm a digger whose just looking for answers to what I consider somewhat confusing questions and claims. Maybe this time around we'll find some solid answers. 

Regarding Hires Root Beer advertising between 1876 and 1880, it starts out slow at first, but by 1880 there are literally hundreds of them. Including this one from ...

The Valley Republican ~ Kinsley, Kansas ~ July 3, 1880


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## SODABOB

hemihampton said:


> Picture of the Hires 1897 CrownView attachment 175609 Top bottle. LEON.



Leon

Thanks for the pic. It appears there is no end to the ads from 1897 that depict one of Hires crown-top bottles. I've seen the one you posted and others like it from 1897 and later.


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## SODABOB

I'm still searching for the original Hires Trademark documents, but will go with these for the time being ...


Word Mark HIRES  ROOT BEER AND ROOT-BEER EXTRACT [ AND THE DRY INGREDIENTS FOR MAKING ROOT BEER ]. FIRST USE: 1877 . FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1877  Filing Date November 4, 1905  Registration Date June 26, 1906 Owner (REGISTRANT) CHARLES E. HIRES COMPANY, THE CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 210, 212 AND 214 NORTH BROAD STREET PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA (LAST LISTED OWNER) CRUSH INTERNATIONAL INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF OHIO ONE PROCTOR & GAMBLE PLAZA CINCINNATI OHIO 45202



[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

Word Mark HIRES ROOTBEER.   Root Beer. FIRST USE: 1878 . FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1878  Filing Date April 12, 1893   Registration Date January 16, 1894 Owner (REGISTRANT) Charles E. Hires Company, The CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA Philadelphia PENNSYLVANIA (LAST LISTED OWNER) CADBURY BEVERAGES B.V. COMPANY NETHERLANDS 17TH FLOOR, WORLD TRADE CENTER, TOWER B STRAWINSKYLAAN 1725 1077 XX AMSTERDAM NETHERLANDS


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## SODABOB

Important Note ...

If I disappear unexpectedly, it means my computer crashed again and not that I'm ignoring anything. My computer is already acting weird and might crash again any second. If that happens, I'll be back as soon as I can.


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## SODABOB

I'll say one thing about ol' Charles Hires, he definitely had a knack for advertising! Check out this half-page ad from ...

The Philadelphia Inquirer ~ June 25, 1892

 

Footnote:

I'm taking a break for the rest of the day before my computer crashes again. See y'all tomorrow (if possible) ?


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## Eric

Hires is hard to find it was sold here in Missouri in cans a couple years ago.. was a little pricey but was a great tasting root beer... Sadly the store no longer carries it.
It's still being sold in cans... you can find it online... but again a little pricey.
There's a lot of great Hires advertising out there... I have some nice pieces and even a Hires embossed floor cooler in line for restoration. love this stuff.


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## Canadacan

Eric said:


> Hires is hard to find it was sold here in Missouri in cans a couple years ago.. was a little pricey but was a great tasting root beer... Sadly the store no longer carries it.
> It's still being sold in cans... you can find it online... but again a little pricey.
> There's a lot of great Hires advertising out there... I have some nice pieces and even a Hires embossed floor cooler in line for restoration. love this stuff.


Interestingly enough a place on Vancouver Island BC, Canada, caries it .....the store is in Ladysmith and is called 49th Parallel Grocery...it a very small chain 3-4 stores, Not sure what the arrangement is but one of their distributors bring it in for them along with about a half dozen other USA only soda's.
I have family there and am headed over soon for a visit...I'll have to make a stop and see if they have some!


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## iggyworf

Eric said:


> Hires is hard to find it was sold here in Missouri in cans a couple years ago.. was a little pricey but was a great tasting root beer... Sadly the store no longer carries it.
> It's still being sold in cans... you can find it online... but again a little pricey.
> There's a lot of great Hires advertising out there... I have some nice pieces and even a Hires embossed floor cooler in line for restoration. love this stuff.



I don't recall seeing it around here in the Detroit metro area. I will have to keep an eye out for it.

I also just got a early 1920's? PL hires bottle from a antique store out by my girlfriends cottage over the weekend anticipating SodaBob's new thread here. I will post some pics ASAP.


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## SODABOB

Hires is not available in every store like it once was, but the bottom line is ...

Its still being *produced!

*
The guy on this link really did his homework ...

http://stuffnobodycaresabout.com/2011/08/22/killing-a-product-why-you-cant-find-hires-root-beer/

Among other things, he had this to say ...


[FONT=&amp]"Cadbury Schweppes started the decline of Hires as a brand as they decided to concentrate their soda marketing efforts on more popular sodas.  In 2008 Cadbury Schweppes spun off the soft drink division into the current Dr. Pepper Snapple Group. Cadbury Schweppes and its successor entity Dr. Pepper Snapple Group, decision was to promote their own A&W Root Beer brand and phase out Hires. Slowly."



Dr Pepper Snapple Group (DPSG)

http://www.drpeppersnapplegroup.com/brands/



Order Online from Walmart

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Hires-Ro...0463&wl11=online&wl12=196579658&wl13=&veh=sem

[/FONT]
Its not cheap, but it can also be ordered Online from ...

1. Sodafinder
2. Amazon
3. eBay
4. Etc


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## SODABOB

Here's another guy who apparently did his homework. I'm not sure if all of it is true, but its definitely an interesting read and has some information that's rarely seen ...

By: Tristan Donovan ~ Published in 2014

(Scroll back one page where it starts with "Charles Elmer Hires")

https://books.google.com/books?id=B...oot beer 1876 philadelphia exposition&f=false


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## SODABOB

In my Post #2 I copy/pasted some information that included ...

"He also sold ginger ale which was called Champanale."

I was curious about it and found this from ...

1917


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## SODABOB

I also found this Champanale collection that sold at auction for $900

(Notice the Hires cologne bottle)


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## SODABOB

In case you're wondering where I'm going with this ...

Circa 1905



1898


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## SODABOB

Nothing major to report (yet).  Just "Trolling" for clues ...



1898



1905



Exact Date Unknown ... 
But Likely 1898 to 1907


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## hemihampton

A old Hires Bottle.


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## iggyworf

Leon, nice bottles. Do you own them?

also check this one out;

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hires-Rootb...833903?hash=item25c611a06f:g:GzMAAOSwxKtX~niH


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## SODABOB

I just want to save this while its handy ...



[SIZE=+3]*Charles Hires

*[/SIZE][FONT=&amp]*AKA* Charles Elmer Hires
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]*Born:* 19-Aug-1851
*Birthplace:* Elsinboro, NJ
*Died:* 31-July-1937
*Location of death:* Haverford, Pa.
*Cause of death:* unspecified
*Remains:* Buried, Westminster Cemetery, Bala Cynwyd, PA
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]*Gender:* Male
*Religion:* Quaker
*Race or Ethnicity:* White
*Occupation:* Business, Inventor[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]*Nationality:* United States
*Executive summary:* Root beer


[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Philadelphia pharmacist Charles Hires originally called his beverage "root tea", but was convinced by a friend that it would sell better in his local area -- Pennsylvania's hard-drinking Cumberland County -- if he called it "root beer".

[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Hires made root beer famous, and root beer made Hires a millionaire, but it is an exaggeration to credit him with inventing the drink. He reportedly first tasted something quite similar to root beer in a restaurant in 1875, and obtained the recipe from the proprietor -- who had in turn based _her_ recipe on long-standing folk recipes for beverages brewed from all manner or roots, bark, and herbs. Hires worked in his laboratory to improve the flavor of the concoction, then reduced it to a powdery concentrate that could be mixed in drug stores to make large quantities of the drink, just by adding water, sugar, and yeast. He also had the idea of serving his beverage cold, instead of hot.[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Hires' Root Beer was introduced at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial exhibition. 

The Charles E Hires Company was established in 1890, and in addition to the powder began selling the product in convenient carbonated bottles in 1893. Hires himself remained active in the business until his son took the reins in 1925. His mother, Mary Williams Hires, was said to be a direct descendant of Martha Washington from her first marriage to Daniel Parke Custis. His uncle, George Hires, was a U.S. Congressman representing New Jersey's First District from 1885 to 1889.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]*Father:* John Hires (farmer)
*Mother:* Mary Williams Hires
*Brother:* Frank Hires
*Wife:* Clara Kate Smith (b. 1852, d. 1910)
*Son:* Charles Hires Jr (President of Hires Company)
*Son:* Harrison Hires (poet)
*Son:* John Edgar Hires (engineer)
*Daughter:* Linda Hires (architect)
*Daughter:* Clara Hires (botanist)
*Wife:* Emma Waln (school teacher)[/FONT]


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## SODABOB

I'm trying to figure out when the "liquid" extract bottles were introduced and what they looked like. The guy who photographed this bottle claims its the first and is BIM. The earliest bottles had the word "Improved" embossed on them.

 



The only thing I'm certain about is, the bottles with the words "Household Extract" embossed on them came later.


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## SODABOB

Hey, Leon

I just realized the guy who photographed the bottle I posted and the guy who photographed the bottle you posted are the same guy. It appears we're on the same page, again.


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## hemihampton

That's possible. I like the Hires Stoneware bottles. you'd figure they came out first but they did not come out until 1914. Have you ever seen one Bob? LEON.


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## SODABOB

Whether Vernor's Ginger Ale or Hires Root Beer is the oldest continuously produced soda pop is, in my opinion, still a subject of debate. However, I'm starting to think there's no question as to which brand was first bottled in a carbonated form ...


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## SODABOB

hemihampton said:


> That's possible. I like the Hires Stoneware bottles. you'd figure they came out first but they did not come out until 1914. Have you ever seen one Bob? LEON.



Yes, I've seen lots of pictures of the stoneware bottles, and came up with the same 1914 date for them. The last one of us who post a picture of one is a rotten egg! (Lol)


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## hemihampton

I got a Interesting Article of Hires in my Ginger Beer & Root Beer book. LEON.


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## SODABOB

Buy It Now ~ eBay ~ $300

http://www.ebay.com/itm/291892705946?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true


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## SODABOB

iggy / Rich

Did you see this one?

Buy It Now ~ eBay ~ $69

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vtg-1800s-H...rtial-Paper-Label-Blown-in-Mold-/272395134642



This label is fodder for research. Its the first close up of one I've seen


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## hemihampton

My Root Beer book gives it a price of $200-$300. BUT, I've seen a few over the years & never thought it was that tough considering you see them once in awhile. I would figure more common & maybe $100? LEON.


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## hemihampton

I seen that one, label pretty rough. LEON.


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## SODABOB

As near as I can determine ...

The blob-tops date between 1893 and 1896



The crown-tops date from 1897 and later


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## SODABOB

As near as I can determine ...

Hires Root Beer is the first *national / major brand  *to use a crown-top bottle

Note: I'm aware of crown-top bottles from 1894 and 1895, but they are not national / major brands


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## SODABOB

If my observations about the bottles is accurate, that means it was only available in extract form for the first seventeen years or so - between about 1876 and 1893

Note: Even though I'm confident the 1876 Exposition introduction date is accurate, I plan to keep searching for a time-period document of some type to fully confirm it. Because that rule applied to Vernor's Ginger Ale, it also applies to Hires Root Beer. Otherwise I will have to settle for ...

1878


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## SODABOB

And Vernor's Ginger Ale will have for settle for ...

1884 *




* Unless an earlier time-period document is eventually found


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## SODABOB

*Reminder ...*




SODABOB said:


> Please Note ...
> 
> It is not my intent to post a never-ending array of Hires Root Beer pictures, documents, and histories. I only intend to post just enough of that type of material to establish ...
> 
> 1. That Hires Root Beer originated in 1876.
> 
> 2. That Hires Root Beer might be the oldest continuously produced soda pop in the United States.
> 
> 3. That Hires Root Beer might have been carbonated and bottled before Vernor's Ginger Ale.
> 
> Footnote:
> 
> The use of the term "soda pop" applies to Hires extract as well as Vernor's extract regardless of the fact that the term "soda pop" generally refers to carbonated and bottled soda pop. With the main emphasis being able to find the earliest time-period use of the words ...
> 
> 1. Hires Root Beer (Currently at 1878)
> 
> and ...
> 
> 2. Vernor's Ginger Ale (Currently at 1884)


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## hemihampton

Part of my article. LEON.


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## SODABOB

This is the earliest time-period reference for Charles Hires I have been able to find so far ...

(Charles Hires was 22 years old at the time)
*
The Philadelphia Inquirer ~ Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ~ May 13, 1873

* 



The numbers on the right are dollar amounts owed


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## SODABOB

SODABOB said:


> I just want to save this while its handy ...
> 
> 
> 
> [SIZE=+3]*Charles Hires
> 
> *[/SIZE][FONT=&amp]*AKA* Charles Elmer Hires
> [/FONT]
> [FONT=&amp]*Born:* 19-Aug-1851
> *Birthplace:* Elsinboro, NJ
> *Died:* 31-July-1937
> *Location of death:* Haverford, Pa.
> *Cause of death:* unspecified
> *Remains:* Buried, Westminster Cemetery, Bala Cynwyd, PA
> [/FONT]
> [FONT=&amp]*Gender:* Male
> *Religion:* Quaker
> *Race or Ethnicity:* White
> *Occupation:* Business, Inventor[/FONT]
> [FONT=&amp]*Nationality:* United States
> *Executive summary:* Root beer
> 
> 
> [/FONT]
> [FONT=&amp]Philadelphia pharmacist Charles Hires originally called his beverage "root tea", but was convinced by a friend that it would sell better in his local area -- Pennsylvania's hard-drinking Cumberland County -- if he called it "root beer".
> 
> [/FONT]
> [FONT=&amp]Hires made root beer famous, and root beer made Hires a millionaire, but it is an exaggeration to credit him with inventing the drink. He reportedly first tasted something quite similar to root beer in a restaurant in 1875, and obtained the recipe from the proprietor -- who had in turn based _her_ recipe on long-standing folk recipes for beverages brewed from all manner or roots, bark, and herbs. Hires worked in his laboratory to improve the flavor of the concoction, then reduced it to a powdery concentrate that could be mixed in drug stores to make large quantities of the drink, just by adding water, sugar, and yeast. He also had the idea of serving his beverage cold, instead of hot.[/FONT]
> [FONT=&amp]Hires' Root Beer was introduced at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial exhibition.
> 
> The Charles E Hires Company was established in 1890, and in addition to the powder began selling the product in convenient carbonated bottles in 1893. Hires himself remained active in the business until his son took the reins in 1925. His mother, Mary Williams Hires, was said to be a direct descendant of Martha Washington from her first marriage to Daniel Parke Custis. His uncle, George Hires, was a U.S. Congressman representing New Jersey's First District from 1885 to 1889.
> 
> 
> [/FONT]
> [FONT=&amp]*Father:* John Hires (farmer)
> *Mother:* Mary Williams Hires
> *Brother:* Frank Hires
> *Wife:* Clara Kate Smith (b. 1852, d. 1910)
> *Son:* Charles Hires Jr (President of Hires Company)
> *Son:* Harrison Hires (poet)
> *Son:* John Edgar Hires (engineer)
> *Daughter:* Linda Hires (architect)
> *Daughter:* Clara Hires (botanist)
> *Wife:* Emma Waln (school teacher)[/FONT]




*Actually ...

*This is the earliest time-period document I have been able to find ...

*1860 *U.S. Census ~ Elsinborough Township, New Jersey 

(Charles is listed as being 9 years old at the time)


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## Canadacan

What size were the early bottles?...8oz..12oz? or were they 6.5oz...seem to tall to be any smaller, really just curious as to when they introduced the 6.5 ounce...must have been like the early 1910's.


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## SODABOB

Cc

Prior to about 1913-1914, soda bottles and the like were not required to have the content amount on them. It wasn't until the Gould Amendment kicked in that it was mandatory. So its kind of hard to know exactly what the ounces were for pre-1914 bottles. However, the Hires Ginger Ale bottle pictured below has 14 Ounces on the label, and it pretty much looks like the earlier bottles. I don't know when they first introduced smaller bottles.

Note: Paper labels are not a reliable means to date the bottle itself. This bottle could be a turn-of-the-century re-purposed bottle with a post 1914 label. ???


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

If all/most of the earlier Hires bottles were 14 Ounce, it might explain the 8-cents per bottle in this 1898 snippet. I'm pretty sure all/most of the 6 Ounce brands only cost about a nickle at that time ...


----------



## SODABOB

Just about every description I've ever seen for this sign dates it at circa 1915 (1910 to 1920). It might depict the first small bottle used by Hires ... ???



This particular 'ten pin' bottle also has Coca Cola embossed on it



And there's the (non typical) stoneware bottles that are said to date around 1914



Plus this one from member Wonkapete's collection. (Date unknown to me but looks early). 



Footnote:  Its probably safe to assume the smaller bottles were in use at least as early as 1915-1920, and possibly even a little earlier.


----------



## SODABOB

Hires pamphlet (Both sides). Described as being published in 1905 

(No small bottles) ...


----------



## SODABOB

Hires ad - Date unknown - but ...

1. Says "Carbonated"

2. Depicts blob-top bottle

? (Possibly earliest ad for carbonated and bottled Hires Root Beer) ?

? 1893-1894 ?


----------



## SODABOB

I'm not sure I have presented a convincing case for either Hires Root Beer or Vernor's Ginger Ale as being the oldest continuously produced soda pop in America, but as it stands now I'm personally going with the Trademark information as being the most reliable of all the various documents ...

*Hires Root Beer And Root Beer Extract ~ First Use 1877*



Word Mark HIRES  ROOT BEER AND ROOT-BEER EXTRACT [ AND THE DRY INGREDIENTS FOR MAKING ROOT BEER ]. FIRST USE: 1877 . FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1877  Filing Date November 4, 1905  Registration Date June 26, 1906 Owner (REGISTRANT) CHARLES E. HIRES COMPANY, THE CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 210, 212 AND 214 NORTH BROAD STREET PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA (LAST LISTED OWNER) CRUSH INTERNATIONAL INC. CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF OHIO ONE PROCTOR & GAMBLE PLAZA CINCINNATI OHIO 45202


*Hires Root Beer  ~  First Use 1878*


Word Mark HIRES ROOTBEER.   Root Beer. FIRST USE: 1878 . FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1878  Filing Date April 12, 1893   Registration Date January 16, 1894 Owner (REGISTRANT) Charles E. Hires Company, The CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA Philadelphia PENNSYLVANIA (LAST LISTED OWNER) CADBURY BEVERAGES B.V. COMPANY NETHERLANDS 17TH FLOOR, WORLD TRADE CENTER, TOWER B STRAWINSKYLAAN 1725 1077 XX AMSTERDAM NETHERLANDS







 

*Vernor's Ginger Ale And Ginger Ale Extract ~ First Use 1880*

Word Mark VERNOR'S   GINGER-ALE AND GINGER-ALE EXTRACT. FIRST USE: 1880 . FIRST USE IN COMMERCE:  Filing Date March 29, 1911   Registration Date August 15, 1911 Owner (REGISTRANT) VERNOR, JAMES INDIVIDUAL UNITED STATES NO. 33 WOODWARD AVENUE DETROIT MICHIGAN (LAST LISTED OWNER) A&W CONCENTRATE COMPANY CORPORATION ASSIGNEE OF DELAWARE 709 WESTCHESTER AVE WHITE PLAINS NEW YORK 10604



*
*


----------



## SODABOB

Last but not least ...

*
Possibly coming soon to a thread near you ...

*


----------



## Canadacan

Hey thanks for the info Bob.....it got me searching!...I did find these adds.


These two are dated 1915..and appear to have the smaller bottle.




This one is supposedly 1920...but the bottle appears a bit taller?



And her is my Hires label similar to those above...this label is extremely scarce, it is all but impossible to find anything from the Chippewa Water Co. let alone a early Hires label from Canada....I believe the label to be from the mid to late 20's. This style was used up until about 1933.




So I believe this would have been the bottle used for the above label...or the one you posted with Hires on the shoulder. I cant see that Hires by this time would allow a bottler even in Canada to use a generic none embossed?


----------



## SODABOB

Cc

Great pics! Thanks for sharing them. The earliest date I could find for Hires in Canada was 1894, although there could be earlier ones. ?

I found this next ad this morning. Even though its not the Ace of spades I referred to, its pretty close. It at least confirms the 1877 Trademark date.

From ...

The Bucks County Gazette ~ Bristol, Pennsylvania ~ June 14, 1877


----------



## SODABOB

Here's my ...

*Ace of Spades
*
If this article isn't referring to Charles Hires, then I'll eat my hat!

From ...

The Reading Times ~ Reading, Pennsylvania ~ February 5, *1876

*





Furthermore ...

Because the article was published in February of 1876 and says "a successful manufacturer of root beer in Philadelphia," I'm of the opinion there was no possible way that Charles Hires was able to develop his root beer and be successful with it in a single month. Hence, it leads me to believe it was actually invented sometime in *1875*


----------



## SODABOB

*Possibly coming soon to a thread near you ...

*

In search of ...

Hires *Root Tea *~ 1875


----------



## SODABOB

Currently on eBay. No bids. Starting at $34.99 ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ori...CE-/311722966535?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368


----------



## SODABOB

SODABOB said:


> P.S.
> 
> In the Vernor's thread I offered a free ACL Book (Rick Sweeney 2002) to the first individual who could find and post ...
> 
> 1. A time-period (1860s-1870s) document/publication that confirmed the existence of Vernor's Ginger Ale earlier than 1880.
> 
> 2. A time-period document/publication that confirmed James Vernor had a full-service soda fountain in his drug store earlier than 1880.
> 
> 3. Another example and/or unquestionable reference for the 1885 Hires Diary I just posted images of.
> 
> To those I would like to add ...
> 
> 4. I will send a free ACL Book to the first individual who can find and post a picture of an original Hires Root Beer "Package/Box" like the one depicted in the 1885 Hires Diary.
> 
> Signed,
> 
> Sodabob



Because I really, really want to give away a free ACL Book, I'm adding this to the list ...

5. An advertisement, article, etc; *published* in 1875 for *​Hires Root Tea*


----------



## Canadacan

SODABOB said:


> Currently on eBay. No bids. Starting at $34.99 ...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Ori...CE-/311722966535?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368
> 
> 
> View attachment 175732


Hey that is cool!.....so I see it is marked 12oz...probably the size in the 1920 advertisement I posted. Also matches my label!


----------



## hemihampton

I don't think he ever advertised his product as root tea in 1875. I'd like to see that Advertising if it exist but I doubt it. Just a hunch.  He originally sold it in his pharmacy in 1875 like Vernor's did. LEON.


----------



## Canadacan

SODABOB said:


> Because I really, really want to give away a free ACL Book, I'm adding this to the list ...
> 
> 5. An advertisement, article, etc; *published* in 1875 for *​Hires Root Tea*



I'm with Leon on this one...none existent, besides you'd be looking for *'Hires Herbal Tea' *... if the book is true and correct, where did the author find this information?...Hires diary?


From:*Fizz: How Soda Shook Up the World*

By Tristan Donovan


----------



## SODABOB

I agree, the odds of finding a "Root Tea" reference from 1875 are probably pretty slim. According to many of the historical accounts, Charles Hires was first exposed to a form of root tea while on his honeymoon with his first wife, Clara Kate Smith. Apparently they were at a restaurant where Charles first tasted it and the lady who made the tea took Charles into the woods to show him where she had gathered the various ingredients. Charles was 24 years old at the time and already involved with the drug business. So, what I'm hoping to find is any type of published record from 1875 that uses the words "Root Tea" in connection with Charles Hires. All I have to go on at the moment is that Charles and Clara were married on ... 

January 5, 1875

... and assuming their honeymoon was also in January of 1875.


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

Based on tidbits of information I have been seeing, it appears the reason Charles Hires used the word "Improved" for his first root beer is because it was an improved version of his root tea.


----------



## SODABOB

P.S. ~ P.S. 

But what's really spurring me on is the use of the word "successful" in the February 5, 1876 newspaper article I posted about the Centennial Exposition. If Charles was already "successful" before he introduced his root beer at the Exposition, then there should be something from 1875 to support that statement. At least, I'm hoping there is. And to be more specific, the actual wording in the 1876 article was ...

"successful manufacturer of root beer in Philadelphia."


----------



## SODABOB

For Future Reference ...

*1851-*Charles Elmer Hires born.

*1863-*Charles E. Hires works as a drugstore boy at a pharmacy in his home town. He's paid $12 per week.

*1867-1869-*Charles Hires attends night classes at the Philadelphia College of Pharmacy and Science.

*1870-*Charles works as a Pharmacist’s Apprentice in Philadelphia. Using $400 he saved while working he opens his own pharmacy while living on the premises. He packages and begins selling the mix,_Hires Herb Tea,_ at his pharmacy.

*1875-*Charles Hires marries Clara Kate Smith. They spend their honeymoon on a New Jersey farm. (some believe it was while he was on his honeymoon that he first tasted "root tea." The tea was a blend of sixteen wild roots and berries similar to a beverage consumed by Native Americans for many years prior. Charles persuaded his hostess to part with the recipe.

*1876-*After several years of development, Charles E. Hires begins marketing kits for home brewers, stating that his recipe is the _“Greatest Health-Giving Beverage in the World.”_ Hires Root Beer Extract is introduced at the Philadelphia Centennial Exhibition, which took place between May 10, 1876, and Nov. 10, 1876. (A package of Hires extract sold for 25 cents, and it made five gallons of root beer; a wholesome temperance drink)

_In the years following the Exposition, Hires continued to market his drink to the temperance crowd, and he also developed a liquid extract or syrup for use in soda shops. He began to ship root beer in kegs, and he even patented a dispenser called the "Hires Automatic Munimaker" that he sold to the soda fountains that were popping up everywhere._
​*

1879-*The Hires Root Beer Company loses the patent for the name “Root Beer.”

*1888-*Charles E. Hires markets a preparation in liquid form for making root beer. This preparation was called "Hires Improved Root Beer." One package was sufficient to make five gallons of beer. Subsequently the name of this package in liquid form was changed to "Hires Household Extract."

*1893-*Hires offers convenient pre-mixed carbonated bottles of root beer for the first time. They are supplied by The Crystal Bottling Company and distributing to local retailers. The demand for the drink skyrockets (the recipe supposedly consisted of sugar or honey with such ingredients as sarsaparilla, sassafras, licorice extracts, vanilla and wintergreen)


_Hires Root Beer quickly became a sensation. By the early 1900s, many homes in America had Hires Root Beer Kits, which allowed families to brew their own root beer by mixing dry extract with water, sugar and yeast at a cost of five cents per gallon. Despite the success of the home kits, Hires decided that he could sell more root beer if people didn't have to brew it. He later developed liquid concentrate and soda fountain syrup, as well as bottled root beer.


_​*1893-*August 19, 1893 the first *National Black Cow Day!!* (now what would a Black Cow be without Root Beer?)

*1904-*Hires markets, sells, and advertises a fountain syrup for making root beer. He spent $100,000 a year in advertising the syrup. Annual sales reach more than $500,000.

*1906-*June 26, 1906-The word "Hires" is registered as a trademark.


----------



## SODABOB

Its possible the reference I'm looking for is not "Hires Root Tea" but ...
*
"Hires Herb Tea" or just "Herb Tea" 


*


----------



## SODABOB

SODABOB said:


> Because I really, really want to give away a free ACL Book, I'm adding this to the list ...
> 
> 5. An advertisement, article, etc; *published* in 1875 for *​Hires Root Tea*



Here's another chance to receive a Free ACL Book ...

Notice in this article I posted earlier where it says ...
*
"a lot of ground directly opposite the main building just outside the Park"

*

I have just started my search for photographs and/or stereographs that show the outside of the 1876 Philadelphia Exposition.  Its possible one of them shows the Hires root beer fountain/stand/building. Its doubtful but possible that it might also be depicted in some of the old maps of the Exposition. But regardless if its a photo or a map, the first person who post what is definitely a picture of the Hires exhibit will receive a free ACL Book. 

Here's a sampling of what I have found so far ...

This first one shows (in red) what is described as the "Main Building" 

 

This next one shows some buildings outside of the park. But I'm not sure if the large structure behind the buildings is considered part of the main building. 

 

Footnote:

All I can tell you about this new search at the moment  is ...

1. I just started my search.
2. There are lots of maps and photos to be found. 
3. It could be an easy find for someone.


----------



## SODABOB

Reminder ...

The newspaper article described the fountain as being ...

*"eighteen feet long and fifteen feet high"


*​... but I'm thinking it was in some type of building. ???


----------



## SODABOB

Here's one of the maps I referred to. Use it to help get your bearings in relation to the "Main Building"


----------



## SODABOB

Based on my interpretation of the newspaper article, the root beer exhibit should be somewhere within the red circle(s) ...









But finding a close up to confirm it is another thing


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

My interpretation of the newspaper article use of the word "*opposite*​" means "next to" (on the side) and not "in front of"


----------



## SODABOB

This might be as good as it gets - But where is it?

Actual aerial ...


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

"Actual Aerial" ... From a *Balloon*


----------



## SODABOB

Clue ...

"*directly *​opposite the main building"


----------



## SODABOB

Man-oh-man did I ever mess that up!  Here I am trying to help everyone else understand the Exposition maps and I didn't understand it myself. Sorry bout that! But I got it right this time ...

The root beer stand/exhibit/building/fountain should be somewhere within the *green *circle ...

"directly opposite the main building"


----------



## SODABOB

Intermission ...

In Allan Petretti's 1996 book "Soda Pop Collectibles Price Guide" (Page 277) it shows two Hires Diaries, one from 1880 and one from 1886. He has them valued at ...

1880 = $225
1886 = $200

Both diaries appear to be similar to the one I recently purchased but have different covers. I can't say if his values were accurate in 1996, nor if they are worth more or less than that now, but feel I did okay having paid considerably less than that for mine. Just as soon as I get my scanner working again, I will post a picture from the book showing the diaries.

In the meantime, I plan to continue my search for the 1876 root beer stand on Elm Avenue in Philadelphia. Pa.


----------



## SODABOB

Speaking of Elm Avenue in Philadelphia ...

The triangular shaped building on the corner in the images I posted was called ...
*
The Trans Continental Hotel*

... which might serve as a clue to the location of the root beer stand.



Note:  There were numerous other buildings on the same block but I do not know why they are not shown on the map. The building on the left was the Pennsylvania Railroad Passenger Depot.


----------



## SODABOB

For the record ...

After the 1876 Centennial Exposition closed, all but two of the fair’s buildings, as well as the surrounding temporary hotels on Elm Avenue, were torn down. Even the Main Exhibition Building (its 21.5 acres of floor space made it the largest building in the world) wasn’t spared from the wreckers. Only Memorial Hall, a massive granite edifice capped by a glass-and-cast-iron dome, remained as a visible reminder of the exposition that attracted over 10 million visitors and showcased industrial Philadelphia to the world.


----------



## SODABOB

July 4th, 1876


----------



## SODABOB

Just for the fun of it ...

This link is to thousands of historical photos of Philadelphia, Pa. It opens on an image of the Trans Continental Hotel and from there can be searched for other photos. There's no way I'm going to have time to look at every photo, but perhaps someone else can find one that shows the root beer stand on Elm Avenue. If you do, please post it and we'll make arrangements to send you a free ACL Book. In the meantime, click on the picture of the Hotel on the website and it will take you to a super-zoom page where you can examine the photo in detail. Every image on the site has the zoom feature ...

Free Library of Philadelphia

https://libwww.freelibrary.org/digital/item/46799


----------



## SODABOB

I found this on the Library website and thought it was kind of interesting. But no root beer fountain in this particular image ...


----------



## SODABOB

Here's where the last image originated ...

Harper's Weekly magazine ~ September 30, 1876

At the bottom it says Elm Avenue was destroyed by fire on September 9, 1876



And please stay tuned - I found a "soda fountain" outside the main building near ...


----------



## SODABOB

Reminder ...

February 5, 1876

1. "promising to erect a fountain that would cost fifteen thousand dollars" 

2. "purchased a lot of ground directly opposite the main building just outside the Park" 

3. "here he intends to erect a fountain eighteen feet long and fifteen high" 

4. "and to cost between five and six thousand dollars" 



Coincidence or Connection? 

Tufts' Arctic Soda (Advertising Card - Front)



Same Card - (Back)

1. "J.W. Tufts' Arctic Pavilion"

2. "33 Feet High - Value $25,000

3. "Near Globe Hotel just outside Exhibition Grounds"

4 "and near Penn. R.R. Depot" 



Map showing Globe Hotel and Penn. R.R. Depot



Question mark placed at possible location of Tufts' Pavilion  ?



Illustration showing Trans Continental Hotel and Globe Hotel



J.W. Tufts' also had a massive soda fountain inside one of the Exhibition buildings




Questions:

1. I wonder why J.W. Tufts' had a soda fountain pavilion outside of the park?

2. I wonder if J.W. Tufts and Charles Hires got together, with Tufts building the fountain and Hires running it?


----------



## SODABOB

In Search of ...

Tufts' Soda Fountain Pavilion outside the park near the Globe Hotel and the Pennsylvania Railroad Depot ...


----------



## SODABOB

*Tufts' Soda Water Pavilion  ~  Philadelphia, Pa.  ~  Outside the Exhibition  ~  1876

*


----------



## SODABOB

Map


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

The walls of Tufts' Pavilion are covered top-to-bottom with words - possibly advertising

For Thirsty Millions +++ Other Words


----------



## SODABOB

Here's the two Hires diaries from Allan Petretti's 1996 book ...



The one I have is from 1885


----------



## SODABOB

I'm still around and still searching for a variety of Hires related publications and pictures. I'm currently looking for an *actual photograph *of Hires' original location at ...

*117-119 Arch Street Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 

*This 1880s card illustrates the building, but I have yet to find an actual photo ...

Front


 

Back



1893 Invoice shows address plus boxes - Dry mix and Liquid extract


----------



## SODABOB

P.S. 

I'm also still searching for 1876 Philadelphia Centennial stuff related to Hires and hope to have an update on that in a few days.


----------



## SODABOB

_P.S.

In the Vernor's thread I offered a free ACL Book (Rick Sweeney 2002) to the first individual who could find and post ...

1. A time-period (1860s-1870s) document/publication that confirmed the existence of Vernor's Ginger Ale earlier than 1880. 

2. A time-period document/publication that confirmed James Vernor had a full-service soda fountain in his drug store earlier than 1880. 

3. Another example and/or unquestionable reference for the 1885 Hires Diary I just posted images of. 

To those I would like to add ...

4. I will send a free ACL Book to the first individual who can find and post a picture of an original Hires Root Beer "Package/Box" like the one depicted in the 1885 Hires Diary. 

Signed,

Sodabob

_

Because I really, really want to give away a free ACL Book, I'm adding this to the list ...

5. An advertisement, article, etc; *published in 1875 for ​Hires Root Tea



*I'm adding this to the list ... 

6. A photograph (not illustration) of any of the following Hires locations/stores/buildings ... 


123 North Front Street = Circa 1876
602 Spruce Street = Circa 1876
9 Letitia Street = Circa 1877
215 Market Street = Circa 1878 to 1887
117-119 Arch Street = Circa 1888 to early 1890s


----------



## SODABOB

*Hires Root Beer  ~ vs ~  The 1876 Centennial Exhibition  ~  Philadelphia, Pa.
*
About 99.9% of the histories about Hires Root Beer say it was first introduced *at *the 1876 Centennial in Philadelphia. Some of the histories even refer to a Hires soda stand *with**in *the Centennial grounds. However, based on what I've been seeing, it appears it was introduced *during *the 1876 Centennial but *outside *of the Park grounds. 

I posted this February 5, 1876 newspaper article earlier and am still of the opinion its referring to Charles Hires even though the name Hires is not used in the article. I've searched but can find no evidence whatsoever of another "root beer manufacturer" in Philadelphia at that time. There were definitely places in Philadelphia that were selling various brands of root beer at the time in soda fountains and elsewhere, but no one I can find that was actually "manufacturing" it. In fact, even the possibility that Charles Hires was actually "manufacturing" root beer in 1875 and early 1876 is a little vague, (other than what it says in the attached article), but I'm hopeful of eventually finding something from 1875 to support that he was at least experimenting with his original formula for "root tea." 

February 5, 1876

 

To help support the above article that says a Philadelphia root beer manufacturer purchased a lot *outside *the Centennial Exhibition, and that the manufacturer was in all probability Charles Hires, I draw your attention to the following two links that are Online books for ... 

*The Official Catalogue of the International Exhibition of 1876*

Both links are basically for the same catalog, but in different formats. Both are searchable, savable, and printable. I have done an exhaustive search in both catalogs, which appear to contain the names of every concessionaire at the Centennial, but in neither one of the catalogs will you find the words "Charles Hires" - "C E Hires" - "Root Beer" which reinforces my belief that Hires Root Beer was not served *at *or *within *the Centennial grounds itself ... 

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hn2x8e;view=1up;seq=11


https://archive.org/stream/officialcatalogu00cent#page/n9/mode/2up


----------



## SODABOB

Next up we have this advertisement from ...

The Times ~ Philadelphia, Pa. ~ October 2, *1875
*
(Which is just one of numerous ads I have seen from that time period about lots being sold prior to the opening of the Exhibition )

Notice this particular ad refers to "Elm Avenue" and "fronting the Exhibition buildings" which appears to be the same general vicinity where the Philadelphia root beer manufacture purchased his lot. However, I'm not sure which side of Elm Avenue these particular lots were on. Elm Avenue was on the south side of the fairgrounds, but the term "fronting" might mean the side of Elm where the fairgrounds were located, whereas the other side of Elm was private property to the best of my knowledge. The February 5, 1876 article says "directly opposite the main building." But whichever side of Elm this particular ad is referring to, it is only intended to exemplify that lots were being sold "outside" of the fairgrounds as early as October, 1875.


----------



## SODABOB

Reminder:  Many of the Centennial maps do not show any buildings on the opposite side of Elm Avenue, but instead show vacant land. I suspect those particular maps were drawn prior to when the "Shanty-town" businesses were built across the street from the Exhibition. Shanty-town, for the most part, included several blocks along Elm Avenue due east of the Trans Continental Hotel.    

On Saturday, September 9, 1876, the majority of Shanty-town was destroyed by fire. Apparently it was the wood structure buildings that were damaged the most, with many of the brick structures left somewhat undamaged and still standing. The fire occurred a full two months prior to when the Exhibition closed on November 10, 1876. 

Here's a detailed account of the fire that appeared in the Monday morning paper ...

The Philadelphia Inquirer  ~  September 11, 1876

(It mentions the names of many of the Shanty-town businesses that were destroyed in the fire, but it does not mention a root beer fountain, nor the name "Hires" in connection with any of the buildings)  



View attachment 175876


----------



## SODABOB

Next up is this article from ...

The Philadelphia Inquirer ~ September 21, 1876

The article is about the County ordering the mayor of Philadelphia to remove certain buildings following the fire that were still considered to be dangerous. It includes the names and addresses of various businesses on Elm Avenue that were to be removed, but it does not mention a root beer fountain nor the name "Hires"


----------



## SODABOB

Here are a couple of comical illustrations of Shanty-town from 1876 ... 

(But no depiction of Hires Root Beer in either one of them)



View attachment 175879

However, in the lower left corner of this one it does say "???? ???? And Castor Oils On Tap"  (Lol)

View attachment 175880


----------



## SODABOB

In other words / Bottom line ...

1. At this juncture I'm not certain if and/or where Hires Root Beer was served during the 1876 Centennial Exhibition.

2. At this juncture I can't find any substantial evidence of it being served either inside or outside the 1876 Exhibition.  

(But I intend to keep searching and hopefully find something eventually)


----------



## SODABOB

P.S. 

Regardless of the possible 1876 Centennial connection, Hires Root Beer was definitely available and being sold in ...

*1877

*

and* 1878

*


----------



## SODABOB

However ...

This doesn't mean that Charles Hires wasn't doing any advertising in 1876. It just means he wasn't advertising root beer in 1876 (at least not that I've been able to find so far)

Philadelphia Inquirer ~ April 18, 1876 

(Which was about three weeks before the Exhibition opened on May 10, 1876)




The Times ~ Philadelphia ~ November 24, 1876

(Which was about two weeks after the Exhibition closed on November 10, 1876)




Footnote:

Notice the two different addresses ... 

1. 41 North Front Street
2. 123 North Front Street

(I do not presently know if Charles Hires had more than one location in 1876 or if he just relocated from time to time)


----------



## SODABOB

Lastly (for the time being) ...

If the February 5, 1876 newspaper article isn't referring to Charles Hires, but instead is referring to some other "successful manufacturer of root beer in Philadelphia," then we might have to consider the possibility that any history written about Hires Root Beer having been first introduced at the 1876 Centennial Exhibition might be a myth. The main reason I say this is because I cannot find a (time-period) publication from 1876 to support the claim. Of course, just because I can't find something doesn't mean it isn't true, but I'd sure like to find some type of time-period document from 1876 to put my investigative mind at ease. That general rule applied to Vernor's Ginger Ale and I think it should also apply to Hires Root Beer. 

(To be continued - eventually)


----------



## SODABOB

Quick Reminder ...

Nowhere in the 1906 Hires Trademark does it mention 1876. But it does mention 1877 ...



[FONT=&amp]Word Mark HIRES  ROOT BEER AND ROOT-BEER EXTRACT 
[ AND THE DRY INGREDIENTS FOR MAKING ROOT BEER ]. 

FIRST USE: 1877 . FIRST USE IN COMMERCE: 1877  

Filing Date November 4, 1905 
 Registration Date June 26, 1906

 Owner (REGISTRANT) CHARLES E. HIRES COMPANY, 

THE CORPORATION PENNSYLVANIA 210, 212 AND 214 NORTH BROAD STREET PHILADELPHIA PENNSYLVANIA


 [/FONT]
First Use AnywhereWednesday, August 1, 1877
[FONT=&amp]
[/FONT]
https://trademarks.corporationwiki.com/marks/hires/71014320


[FONT=&amp]


[/FONT]


[FONT=&amp]


[/FONT]


----------



## SODABOB

Wednesday, August 1, 1877


----------



## SODABOB

I intend to continue investigating Hires' Root Beer vs Vernor's Ginger Ale, but here's where things stand at the moment regarding ...

*"The earliest time-period publications I can find"

*Hires' Root Beer Package = *1877

*

J. S. Vernor / Ginger Ale = *1884

*


----------



## SODABOB

Perseverance paid off and I just found this - which clarifies where the August 1, 1877 date came from. It came from Charles Hires own declaration!

Original Trademark Document ~ 1906

Save & Zoom to Read

(Page 1 of 2)



(Page 2 of 2)



(Cropped from Page 2)

"since about August 1, 1877"



Footnote: But no mention whatsoever of 1876


----------



## SODABOB

To reiterate ...

Hires 1906 Trademark Document

"since about August 1, 1877" 



Vernor's 1911 Trademark Document

"since about January 1st, 1880"


----------



## SODABOB

Hence, I rest my case regarding ...

 "*Hires Root Beer  vs  Vernor's Ginger Ale"* 

(Until such time if/when something presents itself to refute the Trademark documents) 






SODABOB said:


> To reiterate ...
> 
> Hires 1906 Trademark Document
> 
> "since about August 1, 1877"
> 
> View attachment 175892
> 
> Vernor's 1911 Trademark Document
> 
> "since about January 1st, 1880"
> 
> View attachment 175893


----------



## SODABOB

And, yes, this means I'm calling into question the claims that state Hires Root Beer was first introduced at the 1876 Centennial Exhibition in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania!


----------



## SODABOB

*New Investigation ...
*
1. Does the medal on this Hires label say ...

*Merit and Diploma ~ World's Fair ~ 1867

*2. If so, there should be documentation to support it


----------



## SODABOB

*False Alarm ...

*The image on the label says ...

*Medal and Diploma ~ World's Fair ~ 1893

*Which is in reference to the "Chicago World's Fair" held in 1893


 

The Daily Inter-Ocean Newspaper ~ Chicago, Illinois ~ July 1, 1893



But continuing to search for evidence of the Hires Company's own claim on their acl bottles


----------



## SODABOB

*Question ...

**If* Hires Root Beer was such a huge success at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial as most of the histories claim, then why didn't Charles Hires use that notoriety to his advantage in advertising that followed the Centennial*?
*
Starting in 1877, Hires Root Beer ads increase in number and reach a fever-point by the turn of the century. And yet, not in any of the ads I've seen so far is there any mention of the 1876 Centennial. I plan to keep looking, but as it stands now there doesn't appear to be a single ad along those lines.


----------



## SODABOB

*Questions ...

Regarding the following newspaper advertisement about a Root Beer Fountain ... 

1. Is it just another "Monster" from my imagination?

2. Who was selling it and why?

3. Where was 1110 Chestnut Street? 


Philadelphia Inquirer ~ August 4, 1876

*


----------



## SODABOB

According to this newspaper ad, as of November 24, 1876 Charles Hires was located at ...

*123 North Front Street ~ Philadelphia, Pa.

*

According to the City of Philadelphia ...

*The three-story building on the left is 123 through 125 North Front Street ~ With 123 on the ground floor

*(Possibly dated February 11, 1918 - Which would be long after Charles Hires occupied the building)



Footnote:

Had someone else posted this picture I would be sending them a free acl book. With other locations yet to be found that qualify.


----------



## hemihampton

My Hires ACL bottle sez "Since 1876" Same with my flat top cans. LEON.


----------



## SODABOB

Leon

The earliest use of the slogan "*Since 1876*" I have been able to find so far is from *​1953*


----------



## SODABOB

I'm also searching for the earliest reference of any type (histories, etc.) that in any way refers to Hires Root Beer as having been established in 1876, and the earliest I have been able to find so far is from ...

The Los Angeles Times  ~  November 5, *1925*


----------



## SODABOB

Leon

Because you are into cans, I thought you'd like this one. It has a lithographed label and sold in 2012 for $440. Exact date unknown, but possibly 1906 or later because it has Trade Mark on it ...


----------



## SODABOB

Speaking of Hires collectibles ...

Throughout the course of my research I have been looking for one of the original Hires 'dry' extract boxes but have not been able to find an example of one anywhere except in newspaper ads and in my 1885 Hires Diary. It could very well be one of the rarest Hires collectibles ever produced - providing an actual example is ever found. This is the earliest *illustration* of one of the boxes I'm aware of ...


*1880

*

If you ever come across one of these boxes, nab it!


----------



## SODABOB

P.S. 

Even though this snippet doesn't show an illustration of one of the Hires dry extract boxes, it suggest they were available at least as early as ...

*1877

*


----------



## SODABOB

P.S. ~ P.S.

If you search for one of the Hires boxes, I recommend using the search term ...

*Hires Root Beer Package
*
Notice that neither one of the snippets I just posted use the word *extract*. According to most of the histories, Charles Hires didn't introduce a *liquid* extract until around *1884*


----------



## SODABOB

This next segment involves my attempt to do a timeline of Hires bottles starting in 1936 through 1953. You may recall the earliest use of the slogan "Since 1876" I can find is from 1953. That date still stands, and hopefully the following will shed a little more light on it ... 

For starters, here's the 1936 bottle patent. Notice the wave design embossed on the shoulder. Also notice it was patented by Charles Hires Jr. (Charles E Hires Sr. passed away a year later in 1937)


 

Next is this ad from 1937. Notice the bottle has R-J on the label ...



And here's one of the paper label bottles with R-J on it. As near as I can determine, the R-J bottles were produced between ...

*1936-37 to about 1949*



Next is this ad from 1952. Notice the check mark on the label ...



And here's one of the ACL bottles with a check mark on the label. As near as I can determine, the check mark bottles were produced between ...

*About 1949 to about 1952

*

Next is this ad from 1953. Notice it has "Since 1876" on the label. Also notice its advertising Hire's 77th Anniversary ...



And here's one of the acl bottles with "Since 1876" on the label. As near as I can determine, the "Since 1876" bottles were produced between ...

*1953 and at least as late as 1959

*


What I find most interesting about this is that I cannot find a single reference where Hires Root Beer celebrated a 25th, 50th, or 75th Anniversary. But for some unknown reason they did celebrate their 77th Anniversary. Why they would celebrate a 77th Anniversary in 1953 and start using the "Since 1876" slogan at the same time on their bottles and in advertising, I don't currently know. But I find it strange that 1953 is the earliest use of "Since 1876" that I can find.


----------



## SODABOB

*Questions ...

*1. Why did Hires celebrate their 77th Anniversary?

2. Why did Hires wait until 1953 to start using the "Since 1876" slogan on their bottles and in advertising? 



I don't know either, but I'm going to try and find out.


----------



## SODABOB

For future reference ...

*The Philadelphia Inquirer  ~  November 19, 1953

*


----------



## hemihampton

SODABOB said:


> Leon
> 
> Because you are into cans, I thought you'd like this one. It has a lithographed label and sold in 2012 for $440. Exact date unknown, but possibly 1906 or later because it has Trade Mark on it ...
> 
> View attachment 175941





Cool, But, I like this one better, WWII Olive Drab Camouflage sample. LEON.


----------



## Canadacan

, 





SODABOB said:


> This next segment involves my attempt to do a timeline of Hires bottles starting in 1936 through 1953. You may recall the earliest use of the slogan "Since 1876" I can find is from 1953. That date still stands, and hopefully the following will shed a little more light on it.
> 
> And here's one of the paper label bottles with R-J on it. As near as I can determine, the R-J bottles were produced between ...
> 
> *1936-37 to about 1949*
> 
> View attachment 175971




I think it was a tad earlier, 1933 apparently....note the Hires is contained within the circle? That continued until as best I can tell 1939, starting in 1940 (cant find anything for 1939) the 'Hires' was enlarged to extend outside the circle. I had researched this to confirm my Canadian Hires sign is from the 1930's...commonly mistaken for 1950's


Add from ebay...http://www.ebay.com/itm/1933-Hires-...04eda29&pid=100011&rk=1&rkt=7&sd=311717592570







My Hires sign............again note the Hires is with in the circle






Found one more add!...another year earlier 1932.

Oh sorry just noticed there is no RJ!...possible then the first use of the Hires Root Beer in the circle?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/371755115839?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT


----------



## SODABOB

Cc

You're right about the R-J being used earlier than 1936-37. Please note that my timeline only involves the Hires 1936 patented bottle and not with the label itself on straight-sided bottles like the one pictured in your 1933 magazine ad.


----------



## SODABOB

Speaking of Hires bottles ...

This one might be the rarest of the lot. Notice the placement of the medals, with one in the center and four more in the corners, totaling five. The later paper label appears to have a total of ten medals all grouped together. Here's the description that accompanied the bottle, which I disagree with ...

[FONT=&quot]This is an unopened bottle of Hires Root Beer. When we called the Hires Museum we were told it was from sometime in the 1860's but they wouldn't give us any more information, however, they wanted us to donate it to the museum.[/FONT]

The reason I disagree with it is because everything I've ever read about Hires states it was first bottled in a carbonated form in 1893. Nor do I think this particular label is for Hires extract because it has "Sparkling" on it. I'm currently trying to identify the medal in the center that appears to be that of a cloaked woman. This is the only example of this particular paper label that I'm aware of or have ever seen.

 







Compare the above label to this later example that depicts ten medals






[FONT=&quot]


[/FONT]


----------



## SODABOB

This link is to the most extensive list of Exhibition medals I'm aware of. Its hard to say exactly what is depicted on the medal on the mystery Hires bottle, and whether its a person or a building, but so far I haven't found a medal that is similar enough to call it a match. Its possible the medal on the Hires label has nothing to do with international exhibitions and could be for some other type of competition / recognition. Anyway, check out these medals and see if you can find a match ...

http://www.expositionmedals.com/


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

If you click through the seemingly endless collection of medals on the link I posted, see if you can find this one that I'm confident is for the 1893 World's Fair held in Chicago, Illinois ...


----------



## SODABOB

Hold the phone!

I believe I saw this medal in the link collection but I'm not sure. I'm going back to see if I can find it again, and possibly some of the other medals depicted on the label ...


----------



## SODABOB

I'm having a problem making heads or tails of the various Hires medals and haven't been able to find an actual medal that's a perfect match to the ones depicted on their paper label bottles. However, I did discover the paper labels with medals on them changed over the years. 

For example ... 

Blob-top Bottle



Crown-top Bottle



Blob-top Bottle Label Close Up w/ Eagle



Crown-top Bottle Label Close Up w/ Eagle



Compare the Eagle Medal on the Blob-top and Crown-top bottles to the Eagle Medal on this (Date unknown) paper label. Notice the Eagle Medal on this particular label is generic and not as detailed as it is on the previous two labels. 

 



I don't know what type of award the Eagle Medal represents, but I'm continuing my search to see if I can find out. Plus, there's another Hires' Medal I'm investigating that *might *have the word "Centennial" on it. I will tell you more about that one later after I complete my investigation.


----------



## SODABOB

Here's what I'm working with that *might *be the word "Centennial" 

Please Note: I'm still in the preliminary stages of my investigation on this and need to find a better image of this type of label in order to determine exactly what's on the medal. It may or may not say "Centennial"  ...  ???


----------



## SODABOB

By the way, there was more than one "Centennial" held in Philadelphia. The other one is sometimes spelled ...

*
Sesquicentennial  *and/or *Sesqui-Centennial  *and was held in Philadelphia in *1926


*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesquicentennial_Exposition


In 1926 during the Sesqui-Centennial in Philadelphia, the Hires Root Beer Company sold glasses of root beer from very large barrels. Seven persons could sit at one of them. When the fair was over a barrel was purchased and brought to Newtown and placed beside the stone house. Mr. Cunningham turned it into a luncheon stand, and years later acquired a beer license for a tavern. John Curley became the owner of the Barrell in 1957. Today the property is owned by Gus Costalas who remodeled the building and opened it in 1981 as Charlottes Restaurant.


----------



## Canadacan

I can't seem to match up any medals on my label at home, mine has less embossing on the suspect medal 'Centennial' than the label you posted...I'm sitting here looking at it with a magnified glass!..lol


----------



## SODABOB

Just foolin' around ...

(Click back and forth)


----------



## SODABOB

*
Question:  Are these medals the same or different?

*Artist Rendering ~ Hires Paper Label



Print ~ 1876 Philadelphia Centennial



Actual Medal ~ 1876 Philadelphia Centennial



*

Answer:  I think they "might" be the same.



*


----------



## SODABOB

*However ...


*1. I still can't find concrete proof that Hires Root Beer was a concession at/during the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial.

2. Even if Hires was at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial, I have never seen an account stating it won a medal there.


----------



## SODABOB

Maybe Hires won a medal at one or more of these Expositions / Exhibitions / World's Fairs ...




List of world expositions
  Retrospectively recognized expositions

*Philadelphia 1876 ~ **
[*]Paris 1878 ~
[*]Melbourne 1880 ~
[*]Barcelona 1888 ~
[*]Paris 1889 ~
[*]Chicago 1893 ~
[*]Brussels 1897 ~
[*]Paris 1900 ~
[*]St. Louis 1904 ~
[*]Liège 1905 ~
[*]Milan 1906 ~
[*]Brussels 1910 ~
[*]Turin 1911 ~
[*]Ghent 1913 ~
[*]San Francisco 1915 ~
[*]Barcelona & Seville 1929 ~
[*]Chicago 1933*


----------



## SODABOB

Some of you may recall this Hires Root Beer bottle that I used to own ...

(I sold it to a collector last summer for $175 plus a $25 bottle he had = $200)

Notice the neck label says ...

"Bottled Expressly For ~ Universal Exposition ~ St. Louis"

The St. Louis Exposition was held in 1904

 







The main reasons I'm posting this bottle are ...

1. Its from 1904

2. The label depicts numerous medals

3. The medals depicted are pre-1904

4. Which suggest the medals on the 1904 label were awarded sometime prior to 1904


----------



## SODABOB

Just for the fun of it ...

Here's a Hires coupon from the 1904 St. Louis Exposition ...

Front




Back

(Hires had five stands at the 1904 St. Louis Exposition)



One of five "Oasis" at the 1904 St. Louis Exposition


----------



## Canadacan

That's a poor rendition of that medal...dose not look the same as its missing the detail at 12 3 6 and 9.


----------



## SODABOB

Canadacan said:


> That's a poor rendition of that medal...dose not look the same as its missing the detail at 12 3 6 and 9.



Cc

I agree. That's why I referred to it as an "Artist Rendering"  I suspect none of the medals on that particular label are true depictions ...


----------



## SODABOB

But where-oh-where is the proof-positive confirmation that Hires Root Beer was a concession at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial? I have spent untold hours searching for even a hint of such a confirmation, but I cannot find a single time-period publication to support the claim, (Other than in the numerous histories that were published many, many years later). 

 

Footnote:

I acknowledge that just because I can't find something doesn't mean it didn't occur. However, if Hires was a concession at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial, surely there must be "something" from that time period to support it. But if there is "something" from that time period, I sure can't find it and have to question whether its factual or not. 

At the moment I'm putting all of my eggs in this newspaper "basket." But even it is vague with no follow up I can find to confirm its actually referring to Charles Hires ...


----------



## SODABOB

If I/we/someone can identify this medal, it might serve as a major clue. Especially considering its only one of five medals depicted on this particular label, suggesting its likely very early. Plus, its front and center on the label, which suggest it might have been an important medal. I tinkered with the coloring in the last image but still not sure what it depicts.


----------



## SODABOB

I found another example of the mystery label bottle, but unfortunately this was the only image of it, which I have been unable to enlarge or see any details of ...


----------



## SODABOB

P.S. 

If the round things on the shoulder label are medals, then I guess it depicts seven medals and not five. ???


----------



## SODABOB

Here's what I'm currently working with, which might be as good as it gets. Please help me identify the medals if you can. Even identifying a word or two or a date would be a great help. THANKS


----------



## SODABOB

Here's the "Medals" link again for those of you who have the time and interest. If you can *100% positively identify *one or more of the medals I will send you a free acl book ...

http://www.expositionmedals.com/


----------



## SODABOB

*Clue ...

*


----------



## Canadacan

Yea so which on was the medal for that!..lol


----------



## SODABOB

*The Boston Post  ~  Boston, Massachusetts  ~  November 2, 1893

*


----------



## SODABOB

*Another Clue ...

*Part Obvious / Part Guesswork / Specific Medal Unknown / Date Unknown


----------



## SODABOB

*
Another Clue?  /  Question?
*
Because the two medals in the center are the same size, is it possible that its depicting both sides of the same medal?


----------



## SODABOB

*
Reminder ...

*Its highly possible the imagery is an artist's rendering that's *similar* to the actual medal but not necessarily identical to the medal that was actually awarded.


----------



## SODABOB

*Final Clue ... *(Regarding this particular medal) 

Important Note:  The first person who post an unaltered image of this medal does not automatically win the acl book because it is not a 100% match. However, because its a close match, I will allow the decision to be put to a ...

VOTE

... to determine if it qualifies for the acl book. Additionally, at least five members need to cast votes in order to make it fair. I am allowed to vote, but will wait to see what develops before casting my vote. 

Good Luck ...


----------



## SODABOB

*
After the voting is done (providing it comes to a vote) please stay tuned for ...

*Some information I found that *​might* change everything we thought we knew about Hires Root Beer


----------



## SODABOB

SODABOB said:


> *
> Another Clue?  /  Question?
> *
> Because the two medals in the center are the same size, is it possible that its depicting both sides of the same medal?
> 
> View attachment 176095
> 
> View attachment 176096





*Just for the record ...

*


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

The last image I posted shows clear depictions of the other medals, but I'm saving it for later.


----------



## SODABOB

*Inconclusive Conclusion / Resulting in more Questions than Answers ...

*This will likely conclude my investigation of ...

*Hires Root Beer Diplomas and Medals Awarded

*This is going to be a little complicated, but I will do my best to present it in a comprehensive manner. Starting with ... 

*Hires Bottles / Paper Labels
*
1. Notice that every one of them uses the words "Diplomas and Medals Awarded"

2. Also notice that every one of them depicts the image of a medal but not what is typically thought of as a "Diploma"


----------



## SODABOB

Typical definition of the word "Diploma"

(Which is generally a paper certificate)

*Diploma*

noun

1. A document conferring a qualification, recording success in examinations or successful completion of a course of study

2. An official document that confers an honor or privilege


----------



## SODABOB

*Medal ~ 1893

*View attachment 176136

*Medal and Diploma

*(Exact date unknown but likely referring to the 1893 Chicago World's Fair. The "Ugly Kid" was first introduced around 1890)

View attachment 176137


----------



## SODABOB

*World's Columbian Exposition / World's Fair

*Chicago, Illinois  ~  May 1, 1893 to October 30, 1893

According to Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_Columbian_Exposition

Held in Chicago in 1893 to celebrate the 400th anniversary of Christopher Columbus's arrival in the New World in 1492


----------



## SODABOB

I have done an extensive search but cannot find a single Hires Root Beer item that depicts the image of anything that even resembles a "Paper Diploma" but there is an almost endless variety of items that depict the image of "Medals."  As near as I can determine, the paper labels on Hires bottles that refer to "Diplomas" are actually referring to medals that represent diplomas. 

Speaking of "Medals" and the "1893 Columbian Exposition" ...







This next image is from the World's Fairs Medals link I posted earlier - and specifically for medals from the 1893 Exposition held in Chicago. The sub-link is where I found this particular medal under the listings for ...

"Elgit" 501- 

Main Link

http://www.expositionmedals.com/1893/



Sub-link - Eglit 501-


http://www.1893columbianexpo.com/Eglit_501-.html 

With this particular medal listed as ...

*E-506 *~ I did an extensive search and this is the closest match to the above medal I could find. But whether its the actual medal depicted above, I cannot say with 100% certainty. If this were to have come to the "vote" I referred to earlier, I would have voted it is a match - or at least close enough to have qualified for the free acl book. 

Speaking of the acl book, because no one found or posted this particular medal, I'm cancelling that particular opportunity to receive the acl book but will try and think of another way to give one away. 

(Click back and forth and compare to medal image above. Notice the similar profile)


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.

Regarding the word "*Eglit*" on the medals link ...

The best overview available on the type and classification of the Medals is found in the work by Nathan Eglit, first printed in 1989. Although his work does not provide a rarity guide or a price guide, he does describe each Medal as it related to the WCE, and his "Eglit" assigned medal numbers are still in use today.


----------



## SODABOB

Now for the fun / slightly complicated part ...

This is where I found the clear image of the Hires medals ...

*Hires Root Beer Checker Board

*eBay

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/232088578587?rmvSB=true


Others



http://picclick.ca/Xxrare-Orig-1892-Hires-Root-Beer-Advertising-232088578587.html




http://jamesdjulia.com/item/2278-382/



https://www.instagram.com/p/8PDHDkzPw_/

Note: I have done an extensive search and cannot find a single example where this Checkerboard included the checkers themselves. Apparently it came as a small "folded" board only that was intended to be used with checkers people already had. 

 

 









Every example of this checkerboard I have seen has this "1892 Copyright" on it. But I do not know exactly what the copyright refers to. Typically, copyrights refer to "printed/published" material. But in this case, I'm not sure if its referring to the checkerboard itself or something else such as the "Ugly Kid" or possibly the medals, or something else entirely. However, I do know that copyright dates don't automatically date an item and could simply be a starting point for something that was produced for a number of years. It could be the checkerboard was copyrighted in 1892 but not actually produced until 1893. (More about this later)


----------



## SODABOB

Here are a couple of examples of the official 1893 Columbian Exposition "*Diploma*" 

(Which I have never seen on a Hires Root Beer bottle or collectible)

Note/Reminder: To keep track of things in my photo file on this particular topic I title everything with "Hires" even though it may not be specific to Hires, as in the case with these diplomas. 

The diplomas were blank at first, as in this example, and then filled in later depending on who they were presented to.

The Akron Daily Democrat ~ Akron, Ohio ~ July 29, 1893

 

Example of a completed/filled in Diploma

(Notice its a reversed image of the diploma pictured in the 1893 Akron newspaper. This one is how they actually were)


----------



## SODABOB

Now for the part I consider to be the most interesting of all ...

Please Note: 

1. These newspaper articles are all from 1894

2. They are just three examples of similar articles that appeared in numerous newspapers

3. I have done an extensive search and cannot find another "root beer checker board" of any type from the 1890s that the articles might be referring to other than Hires Root Beer

4. Hires is the only root beer I'm aware of that was in any way associated with the 1893 Chicago Exposition

5. I am of the current opinion the articles are indeed referring to Hires Root Beer Checker Boards

6. The sources and dates will appear when you open the images


----------



## SODABOB

* 

Observations ... 
*
1. Most of us have probably noticed that the various Hires paper labels appear to depict different medals. But exactly what all of the different medals are supposed to represent and why different labels depict different medals, I do not currently know. 

2. Based on what I've seen, Hires paper labels that depict medals did not first occur until Hires started producing their beverage in carbonated bottles around 1894. I can't recall ever seeing a pre-1894 extract bottle or box that depicted any medals. 

3. I'm not implying (at least, not yet) that every medal depicted on Hires paper labels are counterfeits. And yet, I can't help but wonder about the 1894 newspaper articles that seem to suggest the medals depicted on the Hires checkerboards *might *be counterfeits - at least some of them. 

4. I did a follow up search on the 1894 counterfeit articles to see what the outcome was but all I could find were vague references that indicated the Government was going to notify the so called counterfeiter's and advise them to cease and desist the practice or else be subjected to further investigation. After that, the accusations seem to have disappeared. So I can only assume that those who were accused stopped the practice and were never prosecuted.


----------



## SODABOB

P.S.*

If *there is something legitimate about the counterfeit medals, and it does apply to Hires and not some other brand of root beer at the 1893 Chicago Exposition, then why would Hires be allowed to continue the practice of depicting medals on carbonated bottle labels from the teens through the 1930s? Or did the investigation just apply to Hires checkerboards?  

(To be continued after I do some more research on this most confusing topic)


----------



## SODABOB

*In the meantime ... 
*
I decided to give away a free acl book based on a "pick a number" basis. Originally I didn't want to do it this way, but nothing else has worked. Here's how it will work ...

1. This voids all of the other methods of receiving a free acl book that I listed earlier

2. This is open to every member who wishes to participate. (But not members of the administration)

3. This offer closes at midnight eastern time, Sunday, November 13, 2016

4. Pick a number between 1 and 100  (Only one number per member) 

5. If someone picks the exact number, they immediately win and the offer ends

6. If no one picks the exact number, the closest number wins whether its higher or lower than the exact number 

7. In the event of a tie, I will come up with a "Tiebreaker"

8. If the winner already has one of the acl books, or recently purchased one from me, they will get another book but not the $60.00 value equivalent

Good Luck to All - May the luckiest member win!

Signed,

Sodabob


----------



## westKYdigger

my number - 76


----------



## SODABOB

westKYdigger said:


> my number - 76




KY

Thanks for participating. You didn't choose the exact number, but it has been duly recorded for future reference


----------



## Canadacan

HMMM.... I go with 51


----------



## hemihampton

I'll go with # 26


----------



## iggyworf

Thanx for this offer Bob.

I will pick # 99


----------



## SODABOB

Canadacan said:


> HMMM.... I go with 51




Cc 

Thanks - Not the exact number but saved for later


----------



## SODABOB

hemihampton said:


> I'll go with # 26




Leon


Thanks - Not the exact number but saved for later


----------



## SODABOB

iggyworf said:


> Thanx for this offer Bob.
> 
> I will pick # 99



Rich


Thanks - Not the exact number but saved for later


----------



## ponygirl

Hi Bob....I am new to this site and hope you may be able to tell me something about some bottles I found recently. Do you know anything about Mathieu Beverages from Taftville, CT ? I have several emerald green glass soda bottles. These are embossed with the company name on the front and bottom. The tops are crown tops and the seam in the glass goes over the lip. Do you or anyone out there have any info on this company or the value of these bottles? They are in very good condition with almost no scratches. A little dirt inside since I found them in a dump. Any information would be helpful....Thanks!!


----------



## SODABOB

ponygirl 

Welcome to the Forum ... :welcome:

I'll take a look and see what I can find. If I do find something helpful, I'll post it on your new thread. In the meantime, please feel free to choose a number for the acl book. Its open to *all *members.

Bob


----------



## ACLbottles

I'm gonna go with 13. Thanks Bob!


----------



## SODABOB

ACLbottles said:


> I'm gonna go with 13. Thanks Bob!



ACL

Thanks - Not the exact number but saved for later


----------



## SODABOB

Just for the record ...

I printed this grid - Cut it into pieces ...




Then drew the winning number from my baseball cap ...


----------



## Eric

Thanks Bob... I'll pick the number 86


----------



## SODABOB

Eric said:


> Thanks Bob... I'll pick the number 86



Eric

Thanks - Not the exact number but saved for later

(We'll have a winner at Midnight, Eastern Time. That's 9:00 PM my time, so I'll post the winner then)


----------



## SODABOB

*In the meantime ... 

Back to 1876

*I recently came across numerous references that claim James Tufts and Charles Lippincott had "*exclusive rights to sell fountain drinks at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial, and that they paid $50,000 for that right.*"

If this is true, then how is it possible that Charles Hires was able to sell his root beer at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial?  

I have researched this question and will post more of what I found later on. But for now, here are just a few of the references I found about the Tufts and Lippincott exclusive rights ...


Tufts & Lippincott Exclusive Rights ~ Jane Shadel Spillman ~ First Page / Right Column / 3rd Paragraph


http://www.aihv.org/en/pdf/16-70.pdf


Donald Yates Article ~ Page 3 (74) ~ Top of Center Column


http://www.fohbc.org/PDF_Files/JohnMatthews_DYates.pdf


Tufts & Lippincott ~ "Outside the Exhibition"

https://books.google.com/books?id=9...ppincott 1876 philadelphia centennial&f=false










(To be continued)


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## SODABOB

The winning number is ...



Congratulations *Canadacan *~ Your #51 was the closest! 

Please send me your mailing address via a PM and I will ship your book A.S.A.P.

Thanks to everyone who participated. Hopefully I'll be able to do this again in the future. In the meantime, please stay tuned for more Hires' vs Vernor's 

Bob


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## Canadacan

Whoo Hooo!!!!....I chose 51 because it was the last 2 digits from the year of  Charles E. Hires Birth date..


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## iggyworf

Congrats to Canadacan!!


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## SODABOB

Cc

I got your PM and will ship your book within the next two days. 

I still have a few more copies of the book and if anyone is interested in purchasing one they are on sale for ...

$50 each (Free Shipping)

(When they were first published in 2002 they were priced at $45)


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## SODABOB

*Continued ... 

*If this 1876 newspaper article is indeed referring to Charles Hires ...




And James Tufts and Charles Lippincott had the exclusive rights to sell fountain drinks at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial ...

(These two snippets are from the link below)





... then it might be that Charles Hires teamed up with James Tufts and Charles Lippincott and that it might have been in the large soda fountain pavilion outside of the exhibition where Hires Root Beer was dispensed ...

Andrew F Smith 2013 Book ~ Scroll to Pages 303 & 304

https://books.google.com/books?id=o...an history Andrew F Smith online book&f=false




(To be continued)


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## SODABOB

The following is from a 2014 article by Clay Latimer ...

http://www.artremiscapital.us/2014/01/success-story-charles-hires-root-beer.html

The drink might have fizzled if Hires hadn't run into a newspaper publisher in 1877.

"I was in the Philadelphia Public Ledger office one day," Hires told Printer's Ink magazine in 1913, "and George W. Childs saw me and led me back into his office. 'Mr. Hires,' he said, 'why don't you advertise that root beer extract of yours?' I told Mr. Childs that I hadn't seriously considered advertising it, and that I hadn't any money to spend for advertising in any event." 

And here's a slightly different version of the story from a 1927 issue of the "Printers Ink" magazine ... 





Question:

If what they say above is true ... "I have no money to really carry on a consistent campaign" ... and it occurred in 1877, then how was it possible for Charles Hires to afford $6,000 for a lot and $5,000 to $6,000 to construct a soda fountain at the Philadelphia Centennial as the 1876 newspaper article suggest?


(To be continued)


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## SODABOB

P.S.

I'm currently researching James Tufts and Charles Lippincott to see if either one of them might have been considered "a successful manufacturer of root beer in Philadelphia" in 1876. All I know at the moment is ...

1. James Tufts was from Boston, Massachusetts and manufactured elaborate soda fountains.

2. Charles Lippincott was from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania and ... ???


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## SODABOB

For starters ...

If*, *as the 1876 newspaper article says about there being a problem allowing a "successful root beer manufacturer" to erect a fountain at the 1876 Centennial, and that manufacturer was Charles Lippincott, then how do we explain the following from an official 1876 Centennial catalog?

 






(To be continued)


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## SODABOB

Now let's take another look at the James Tufts' soda fountain pavilion that was located *outside* the fairgrounds near the Globe Hotel ... 

1876 Centennial catalog (1 of 2)



1876 Centennial catalog (2 of 2)



Exterior



Interior



(To be continued)


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## SODABOB

I tapped into every resource I could think of and found numerous references about James Tufts' and Charles Lippincott's involvement with soda fountains at the 1876 Centennial, but did I not find a single reference about either one of them being involved with the manufacturer of root beer at any time in their careers. It appears they were primarily involved with the manufacturer of soda *fountains* and not soda fountain *drinks*. Its starting to look as if Tufts and Lippincott simply erected the soda fountains at the fair but did not run them. Hence, I can't help but wonder if Charles Hires might have been involved with the Tufts soda fountain pavilion that was located near the Globe Hotel? If so, that would add a certain measure of credence to the 1876 newspaper article, plus explain why I cannot find a single time-period reference that places Charles Hires *in* the Centennial grounds. 

(To be continued)


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## SODABOB

*In search of ...

*Another exterior picture of James Tufts soda water pavilion to see if the words "Hires Root Beer" are painted on it.


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## hemihampton

I was going to chose 52 but it was to close to 51.


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## SODABOB

hemihampton said:


> I was going to chose 52 but it was to close to 51.



Leon

As you know, if you had chosen the number 52, Cc would still have been the winner. However, if you had chosen the number 50, ...


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## SODABOB

I wonder where the Southern Oregon Historical Society got the following information and why they mention a dried root beer extract in connection with a Tufts' Arctic Soda Fountain but don't mention Hires Root Beer? 


*​*http://sohs.pastperfectonline.com/webobject/00124FC8-180C-428E-8AA7-821436313590




In 1876, a Centennial Exhibition was held in Philadelphia, celebrating the birth of the republic and 100 years of progress. On exhibit were numerous gadgets, inventions, and widgets. Included was a prototype slice of the cable that was used to secure the Brooklyn Bridge, the first typewriter, an early telephone that frightened visitors by “talking”, and the Corliss Steam Engine, huffing and puffing and larger than a house. Newspapers were printed on site, machines were sewing, wallpaper was printed and logs were sawed. In the midst of all this stood a Tufts Artic Soda Fountain. In 1876, James W. Tufts and Charles Lippincott paid $50,000 for exclusive rights to sell soda water beverages and ice cream sodas. They displayed a 30-foot tall fountain with elaborate spigots, hanging ferns, a chandelier, and it even sprayed perfume in the air. For $.25 one could purchase a packet of dried herbs to take home and create root beer, an early instant beverage.


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## Canadacan

Bob that makes sense to me that they just supplied the soda fountains, they (the vendor's) probably dispensed every soda imaginable at that time, Hires just dispensed free samples right?


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## SODABOB

Cc

We posted at almost the same time - my time was 6:49 PM PT and your time was 6:*51 *PT. What's the deal with you and the number 51? 

Anyhoo, check out my 6:49 Post. It might relate to your question.


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## SODABOB

SODABOB said:


> I wonder where the Southern Oregon Historical Society got the following information and why they mention a dried root beer extract in connection with a Tufts' Arctic Soda Fountain but don't mention Hires Root Beer?
> 
> 
> *​*http://sohs.pastperfectonline.com/webobject/00124FC8-180C-428E-8AA7-821436313590
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In 1876, a Centennial Exhibition was held in Philadelphia, celebrating the birth of the republic and 100 years of progress. On exhibit were numerous gadgets, inventions, and widgets. Included was a prototype slice of the cable that was used to secure the Brooklyn Bridge, the first typewriter, an early telephone that frightened visitors by “talking”, and the Corliss Steam Engine, huffing and puffing and larger than a house. Newspapers were printed on site, machines were sewing, wallpaper was printed and logs were sawed. In the midst of all this stood a Tufts Artic Soda Fountain. In 1876, James W. Tufts and Charles Lippincott paid $50,000 for exclusive rights to sell soda water beverages and ice cream sodas. They displayed a 30-foot tall fountain with elaborate spigots, hanging ferns, a chandelier, and it even sprayed perfume in the air. For $.25 one could purchase a packet of dried herbs to take home and create root beer, an early instant beverage.



I wonder if they're talking about one of these?


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## SODABOB

*The plot thickens ...

*

*
February 5, 1876

*

Meet ...

*Samuel H. Warwick

*Philadelphia Inquirer ~ January 21, 1901


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## SODABOB

The Times  ~  Philadelphia, Pa.  ~  June 14, 1882



(To be continued)


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## Canadacan

Interesting!...well the paper never did say exactly who it was that was going to erect that fountain, but it makes sense that it must have been him because Hires certainly did not have the capital to do so.
I think the only roll that Hires played at the 1876 fair was that he managed to get in there and distribute his samples for free.


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## SODABOB

Cc

I mailed your book today. The postage to Canada was three times the usual amount, but I'm okay with that. What surprised me the most was the four customs forms I had to complete. I never mailed anything to Canada before and it was an interesting experience. I don't know how long it will take but suspect about ten days. Please let us know when it arrives. 

I'm still researching Samuel Warwick and hope to find out more about him soon. The earliest reference I've seen for him and his root beer so far is 1873. We may never know if he's the one referred to in the newspaper article, but it appears he certainly could have afforded it. As for Charles Hires, everything I've read about him seems to indicate he probably needed some financial help in order pull-off whatever his role might have been at the 1876 Centennial. The weirdest part is, I still can't find a proof-positive reference that he was even at the Centennial. I find it hard to believe if he was there that he didn't advertise it early on.


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## SODABOB

Date unknown but described as "Flat Ring Cork Lip" and "Hand Blown"


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## hemihampton

I've had similar things happen, gave a shipping price assuming it's going to U.S.A  only to find out Canada or New Zealand, ect. LEON.


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## hemihampton

I've dug up a few old Hires extract bottles in the past. Common as far as I know, was just cleaning up back porch & found a Hires extract that's been laying around in garbage & debris pile on back porch for past 3-4 years. LEON.


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## Canadacan

SODABOB said:


> Cc
> 
> I mailed your book today. The postage to Canada was three times the usual amount, but I'm okay with that. What surprised me the most was the four customs forms I had to complete. I never mailed anything to Canada before and it was an interesting experience. I don't know how long it will take but suspect about ten days. Please let us know when it arrives.
> 
> I'm still researching Samuel Warwick and hope to find out more about him soon. The earliest reference I've seen for him and his root beer so far is 1873. We may never know if he's the one referred to in the newspaper article, but it appears he certainly could have afforded it. As for Charles Hires, everything I've read about him seems to indicate he probably needed some financial help in order pull-off whatever his role might have been at the 1876 Centennial. The weirdest part is, I still can't find a proof-positive reference that he was even at the Centennial. I find it hard to believe if he was there that he didn't advertise it early on.



Excellent Bob, thanks very much....that's why I gave you the heads up before you committed to sending, yes about 10 days but sometimes it can zip through in 3 days! I now find it so convenient to fill out customs online and print it at home..then I just bring it to the post office and they scan the bar code and print the label, then I just sign away! Looking forward to receiving the book!

You almost need a diary from back in the day...a first hand account of someone's visit to the 1876 Centennial fair that claims they tried Hires rb when they were there!


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## SODABOB

Cc

No problemo - Enjoy the book

I thought this was interesting ...

*1890*


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## SODABOB

*In search of ...

*



[FONT=&amp]The editor of the_ Public Ledger, George W. Childs, liked the drink so much, he gave Hires free advertisement in his newspaper. 






_[/FONT]


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## SODABOB

I recently subscribed to a newspaper archives that included listings for the *Philadelphia Public Ledger *but discovered right away it was a mistake. I knew in advance the Public Ledger listings only ranged between 1836 and 1876 and I was hopeful of finding something about Hires Root Beer and the 1876 Centennial, but unfortunately there was nothing helpful. As it turns out, there doesn't appear to be an archives for the Public Ledger from 1877 on other than at Philadelphia libraries and a few Pennsylvania universities. One of the universities that has the archives Online is for students only and not accessible to private citizens.  

If someone who reads this lives in Philadelphia and would like to help out, please visit one of the libraries and see if they have anything in their Public Ledger archives about Hires Root Beer. The archives I normally use has lots of listings for the Philadelphia Inquirer and the Philadelphia Times, but I've already posted everything of interest I can find in those publications. 

The editor of the Public Ledger in 1876 and 1877 was George W. Childs. It was Childs who probably helped Charles Hires get his start more than anyone else. George Childs was the one who allowed Charles Hires to advertise free until Hires had enough money to pay him back. 

(To be continued - But only for a short time because I'm almost out of resources to research)


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## SODABOB

For those who live in Villanova, Pennsylvania and/or are students at Villanova University ...

*Falvey Memorial Library*


"The Library also retains the complete run of the _Public Ledger_ on microfilm."


https://blog.library.villanova.edu/...available-via-americas-historical-newspapers/


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## Canadacan

Bob just wanted to say thanks again for the book, it really is wonderful and I cant wait to go through all of it, I did notice a mention of Paul Beverages from BC!...never expected to see that! I also like having the glass maker marks section at one's finger tips, excellent book

Cheers,

Ivan


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## SODABOB

I've been away from my desk for a few weeks and devoting the majority of my time to oil painting. Its difficult to do computer research and oil painting at the same time and boils down to doing one or the other but not both. Even though I'm in the middle of an oak tree painting, I decided to take a break and conclude this discussion if possible. The attached newspaper article is Charles Hires obituary from the Philadelphia Inquirer dated August 1, 1937. Notice it mentions a variety of events, including the episode about Charles Hires involvement with potter's clay, but there's not one word about Hires Root Beer being introduced at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial. This is in stark contrast to most of the Hires' histories that almost always start out with some mention of the 1876 Centennial. 

I do not doubt that Hires Root Beer was first developed in Philadelphia in 1876 and possibly experimented with as early as 1875, but I still call into question the part that claims it was first introduced at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial. As it stands now I cannot find a single shred of credible evidence to support those claims despite what the histories say. Of course, if and when something presents itself to verify the 1876 Centennial connection, I will stand humbly corrected. In the meantime I stand firm on my suspicion that the 1876 Centennial connection is nothing more than a myth. 

The Philadelphia Inquirer ~ Philadelphia, Pennsylvania ~ August 1, 1937

Note:  If Charles Hires had anything to do with the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial, I honestly believe there would have been some mention of it in his obituaries. I have read at least thirty obituaries for Charles Hires that made the headlines nationwide in 1937, but not a single one of them mentions anything about the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial.


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## SODABOB

P.S.

To be continued eventually with a brief timeline of events for both James Vernor as well as Charles Hires ...


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## SODABOB

I recently purchased one of these Philadelphia Centennial CDs on eBay for a total of $18.48. Notice by scrolling to the bottom where it says Hires Root Beer was one of the products introduced at the Centennial. But whether that reference is actually published in one of the catalogs contained in the CD or just part of the seller's description, I do not know yet. I will post what it contains after it arrives in about a week ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1876-Centen...346951?hash=item2ebb44d8c7:g:pP4AAOSwFdtXztPk


 

In the meantime, here's a Charles Hires vanilla bean business card that's on eBay for $60.00. Exact date unknown but described as circa 1870s. (I do not intend to purchase it).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scare-Busin...586633?hash=item56679dddc9:g:CQwAAOSwFL9Tvasg


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## iggyworf

SODABOB said:


> I recently purchased one of these Philadelphia Centennial CDs on eBay for a total of $18.48. Notice by scrolling to the bottom where it says Hires Root Beer was one of the products introduced at the Centennial. But whether that reference is actually published in one of the catalogs contained in the CD or just part of the seller's description, I do not know yet. I will post what it contains after it arrives in about a week ...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1876-Centen...346951?hash=item2ebb44d8c7:g:pP4AAOSwFdtXztPk
> 
> 
> View attachment 176379
> 
> In the meantime, here's a Charles Hires vanilla bean business card that's on eBay for $60.00. Exact date unknown but described as circa 1870s. (I do not intend to purchase it).
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/Scare-Busin...586633?hash=item56679dddc9:g:CQwAAOSwFL9Tvasg
> 
> View attachment 176380





That's a very interesting thing to find Bob. Strangely on ebay also. I hope it contains some good info.

By the way, do you ever paint any bottles in your paintings?


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## SODABOB

Rich / iggy

Yeah, I can't wait to see what the CD contains. Hopefully something definitive. But I'm not going to hold my breath that it connects Hires Root Beer to the 1876 Centennial. We'll know in about a week. 

As for my ever including a bottle in one of my oil paintings; several years ago I did a shadowbox type of thing where I inserted an old Coca Cola hobbleskirt into the wood and then painted around it to make it look as if the bottle had been discarded and laying on the shoulder of a country road. The bottle was in the foreground and the road disappeared into the sunset in the background. I even painted a 'S-curve' road sign on it as well as a rattlesnake winding its way across the road. The finished product was really cool but I have only done one like it, and that was about twenty years ago. Unfortunately I never took a photo of it and the person who bought it is lost to memory. 

Here's a photo of the oak tree I'm currently painting a picture of. Its a Live Oak that is common throughout southern California. The exception being that this particular tree is extremely old (300+ years) which is evident because the main branches grow all the way to the ground and then cure skyward. Its growing a few miles from where I live and the area surrounding it is kind of spooky and enchanting - which I hope to capture in my painting. I'll post a picture of the painting when its done, which will probably take me at least a month or more.


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## SODABOB

I received the CD I purchased on eBay but so far have been unable to find a listing for Hires Root Beer. The CD contains several catalogs related to the 1876 Centennial with a total of about 2,000 individual pages, which includes illustrations, maps, advertisements, indexes, etc. So at the moment I don't know if the seller was just assuming there was a Hires listing or if there is one that I just haven't been able to find yet. I contacted the seller to see if he can assist me and will post what he has to say just as soon as I hear back from him.


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## SODABOB

I just heard from the eBay seller and here's his copy/pasted reply ...

"Sorry for any confusion, but the ad does not indicate a Hires ad is included on the CD. Details of CD contents show the titles and chapters of the 5 volumes on the CD. The BOLD text that follows that is a brief overview of the 1876 exposition, and names 6 new consumer products introduced there. For Hires ads, Google vintage Hires Root Beer Ads. Then select Images at the top of the screen. Also go to wikipedia.org and search for Hires Root Beer."

"Happy Holidays."


It appears that what he's saying is that his reference to Hires is generic and that he got it from Wikipedia or a similar site, thus his assumption that Hires Root Beer was connected with the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial. I'm not surprised by that and can only say that it adds to my suspicions that Hires Root Beer's presence at the 1876 Centennial might very well be a myth. 

(To be continued)


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## iggyworf

That's too bad. I was hoping you would find out some good info. I'm sure there is lot's of good info on it but not what you were looking for.


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## SODABOB

After explaining my inability to find a solid connection between Hires Root Beer and the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial, the eBay seller had this to say ...

"I will remain alert for any additional information on this."

Which is the same position I'm taking and will post additional information if and when I find any. I invite everyone who reads this to do the same and hopefully one of these days we'll know for certain whether or not Hires Root Beer was in any way involved with the 1876 Centennial. As it stands now, I don't think it was. But just when and who might have initiated this possible myth, I don't know other than to say that I suspect it occurred sometime after Charles Hires' death in 1937. 

(To be continued)


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## SODABOB

Ironically, I think the same might be true about Vernor's Ginger Ale being introduced in 1866. And by that I mean; I believe there is a strong possibility the 1866 date is also a myth that was initiated by someone after James Vernor's death in 1927. In both cases, Vernor's and Hires', my findings suggest it might have been the sons, James Vernor Jr. and Charles Hires Jr., who might have been the individuals who started the myths as legacies to their fathers. Perhaps someday we'll know for certain. In the meantime, it remains a big ...


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## SODABOB

Last but not least ...

I honestly believe the original trademark documents tell the real truth despite what the numerous histories claim ...
*
Hires Root Beer

"Since about August 1, 1877"

* 





*Vernor's Ginger Ale

"Since about January 1st, 1880"


*


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## SODABOB

*​The End? *


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## SODABOB

*Christmas Special ... 

If anyone is interested in purchasing one or more of the ACL Soda Bottle Books from me, they are currently available for $40.00 each until December 31, 2016. After that date they go back to $60.00 each. Free shipping is included providing the postage does not exceed $10.00 

If you order now, the book(s) should arrive before Christmas. 

Note: I'm going out of town for Christmas and leaving on December 22nd and returning on the 27th. If you want one of the books delivered in time for Christmas, please let me know A.S.A.P.  I only have about a dozen copies available and once they are gone I will probably not be getting any more of them. If you are interested, please take advantage of this offer now as this might be your last chance to acquire one of the books at an affordable price. Please PM me if interested. 

Bob






*


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## SODABOB

*P.S. 

I forgot to mention if you want one of the acl books by Christmas I will ship it now and trust you will send me a money order at the same time. I normally would not do it this way but will make an exception this one time because of the holidays. Just let me know and I will ship your book(s) today if I hear from you by 1M Pacific Time (4M Eastern Time).




*


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## iggyworf

SODABOB said:


> *​The End? *



Thank You Bob for another great thread. I hope to retain at least some of the info in my jumbled brain.

Happy Holidays!!!


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## SODABOB

Rich / iggy

Thanks. Its just a matter of eventually putting the pieces of the puzzle together ...

Happy Holidays to you, too!

Bob


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## hemihampton

iggyworf said:


> thank you bob for another great thread. I hope to retain at least some of the info in my jumbled brain.
> 
> Happy holidays!!!




ditto.


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## SODABOB

Have fun! I know I will! I get to see my grand kids who I haven't seen in four years.

Bob


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## hemihampton

A Interesting item for Bob. To bad Vernors was not listed in the list of users. LEON.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1874-ad-Arc...772888?hash=item3f71c67bd8:g:z2wAAOSw6DtYWJvM


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## SODABOB

Leon

Even though I still haven't been able to find absolute confirmation that Hires Root Beer was introduced at the 1876 Philadelphia Centennial, I thought this article was interesting in that it says ...

 "But his drink was not the big seller at the Centennial Grounds. That distinction fell to a beverage called Tufts Arctic Soda Water." 

From ...

The Philadelphia Daily News ~ July 25, 1998

(An editorial by someone named George Edberg-Olson)

 



I also thought this was interesting because its fitting to the season. I haven't tried it yet but might later today or tomorrow. I like eggnog but never had any that's flavored with root beer ...

The Philadelphia Daily News ~ December 23, 1961


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## SODABOB

Just checking in to let you know I'm still around but deeply involved with my oil painting. I'm also working on a brief history of the small town I grew up in. No such history has ever been compiled and hopefully one of these days I will be able to publish my work in the form of a small pamphlet-type book. 

I tried eggnog with root beer and it was okay. To make it more enjoyable I added a shot of brandy, which made it even better. 

Nothing new to report regarding Vernors Ginger Ale or Hires Root Beer, but I will keep my eyes peeled and report back if I find anything of additional interest. 

Later alligators,

Bob


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