# John Graf



## blobbottlebob

Ever find a bottle embossed with the phrase "THE BEST WHAT GIVES"? You are not alone (if you have). John Graf was one of the most prolific bottlers of sodas and weiss beers from Milwaukee. One thing that was amazing about the company (besides their command of the english language) was the vast number and types of bottles they used. I am convinced that John Graf was a marketing genius. He changed bottle types often to reflect changing bottle styles and used an amazing array of closure mechanisms. He also advertised, made stoppers, glasses, seltzers, openers, ash trays, . . you name it, trying to get the name out there at every opportunity. I thought that it might be neat to begin a post showing some of the various bottles that he made. It will certainly be easy to add new pics on a regular basis because of the many variants out there.

 One great thing about Graf bottles is that anyone trying hard enough can get their hands on one. Common examples can easily be purchased. They turn up on the bay often enough. On the other hand, some Graf bottles are so rare that stacks of hundreds wouldn't help (because none are out there for sale).

 Many people nowadys still remember Grandpa Graf's root beer. It may even be still available. Last I heard, an Illinois company called Canfields was still selling it. Graf's was, however, a prolific brewer of weiss beer at the turn of the century. There are some great examples to come that will show that better.

 Graf began his bottling career in 1873 in a partnership with Phillip Madlener. (date is credited to Roger Peters - Thanks Roger!) About ten years later, Graf bottles no longer had the Madlener embossing. It seems appropriate to start with a few pics of those early bottles.


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## blobbottlebob

This first picture is of an early hutchinson soda in a wonderful teal aqua shade. I am lucky enough to be able to show this photograph because the bottle is from my own collection.


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## blobbottlebob

I wish this example was in my collection. A friend sent me the shot a few years back. While these blob style sodas are typically rare - they are almost never seen in amber. This example is one of very few known. It really is a gem. (Thanks Peter!)


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## blobbottlebob

Here is one of John Graf's unique weiss beer bottles. The bottle has eight vertical facets along the entire height of the bottle. Very few other bottlers nationwide seemed to use this attractive bottle design. While the bottle is not rare, it is fairly collectible (I think because it is so cool).


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## blobbottlebob

The facets on that amber bottle read,

 PLEASE RETURN

 WHEN EMPTY

 TO THE OWNER

 COR 17 TH & GREENFIELD AVE

TRADE
 THE BEST WHAT GIVES
MARK

 JOHN GRAF

 MILWAUKEE, WIS.

 THIS BOTTLE IS NEVER SOLD


 Later versions of the amber bottle can be seen with rim for a crown cap. Early versions of these bottles almost look like the crown was added to the blob! There are also crown versions that say WEISS BEER on one panel.


 In addition, after prohibition, Graf continued to use this faceted bottle for sodas. This gorgeous example has an overfill at the base. Some of these sodas say _LEMON LIFE _or soda water on the panels.


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## glass man

NICE BOTTLES! THANKS FOR THE PICTURES! YOUR TEAL ONE IS GORGEOUS!!!! JAMIE


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## RIBottleguy

Nice compilation!  I do like those bottles, but they don't come from my area.


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks guys. I intend to keep building up this thread when I get the chance.


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## blobbottlebob

Here is a 1930s deco soda with an embossed Zeppelin on it. The bottle is tall and slender with the dirigble visible on each side. It has ribs going the length of the airship, little fins at the back and weights (or bombs?) on the outside edges. The ships have a pebbled texture.

 I'm guessing that Graf took some pride in the airships in their heyday because of his German heritage. Obviously, these were popular before the Hindenburg disaster in 1937.


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## blobbottlebob

By the way, I saw a show that said the outer casing of the Zeppelins were made of Aluminum oxide (or the like). It is a component in rocket fuel. It is surprising that more of these didn't burn. 

 Here is a later (post world war two) acl version of the soda. Apparently, it was now enriched with vitamin B1.


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## blobbottlebob

Next, I'll show a few Graf hutchinsons. The Graf company bottled a lot of soda over the years. There are dozens of hutch variants. The early ones (after the venture with Madlener) were manufactured by the Wisconsin Glass Company in Milwaukee. Wis. Glass closed in 1886. These usually feature a slug plate, a six-sided mug base, and are often crude. Here's an example . . .


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## blobbottlebob

Wis. Glass Co.


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## blobbottlebob

In the chain of Milwaukee glass manufacturers, the Cream City Glass Company came next. These bottles still feature the six-sided mug base. The reverse has THIS BOTTLE IS NEVER SOLD. Check out how crude and mis-formed the neck and shoulders are on this example!


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## blobbottlebob

I need to show this bottle as well. This is the most common Graf hutchinson style. It features an eight sided mug base with the famous trade mark on the back. THE BEST WHAT GIVES.


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## blobbottlebob

Every now and then, if you're lucky, you may find some of these with a mis-mold error. Where it should say T*R*ADE MARK, they say T*B*ADE MARK. These are quite rare (but neat).


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## blobbottlebob

Here are some more Graf weiss beers. These feature hex bases. They come in a huge array of shades including the normal ambers, some that are very dark (reddish amber held to a bright light), and ones that are yellowish.


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## blobbottlebob

A similar shape but an odd colored (beer) with a loop seal closure. This one is quite rare.


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## blobbottlebob

Roaring twenties style art deco bottles. These featured panels in the center that alternate between smooth and pebbled textures.


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## blobbottlebob

Hutches also came in oversized versions. Here's the eight sided mug base.


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## blobbottlebob

Next, a hex based set.


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## blobbottlebob

This one has a tall base with long sloping shoulders.


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## blobbottlebob

Note that the facets on the mug base have reverse arches on this one.


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## blobbottlebob

Some of the earliest (post hutchinson) crowns continued with these reverse arches. These look short and squat - just like hutches except that the neck was elongated to accomodate the crown cap. At right, the bottle has the word "CO" added below "JOHN GRAF". The company designation began in 1914.


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## blobbottlebob

I think that the previous bottles eventually evolve into this more attractive design.


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## blobbottlebob

Here is a John Graf beer glass. I has a slight diamond pattern to it. This one advertises weiss beer with a date of 1889. I found this fairly early in my hobby and up until then I thought that all Grafs were root beers. When I saw the glass, the amber blobs started making more sense.

 There are similar glasses with other dates and some even come in amber shades. Very highly sought after!


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## blobbottlebob

Another interesting thing about the glass is that the advertising on the bottom is backwards so that you can read it whilst tipping the glass to drink from it.


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## cyberdigger

Bob, this is a super thread, i really appreciate all of this info, and all the great bottles!! I love the six-sided mug bases!! Thank you for sharing!!!!


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks Charlie! I hope to keep adding to this post but I am slowing down now.


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## glass man

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> Here is a 1930s deco soda with an embossed Zeppelin on it. The bottle is tall and slender with the dirigble visible on each side. It has ribs going the length of the airship, little fins at the back and weights (or bombs?) on the outside edges. The ships have a pebbled texture.
> 
> I'm guessing that Graf took some pride in the airships in their heyday becauseÂ of his German heritage. Obviously, these were popularÂ before the Hindenburg disaster in 1937.


  VERY NICE THREAD!  THERE IS A 30S-40S DUMP HERE IN TOWN WHERE THESE CAN BE DUG. WHAT IS THE VALUE OF A MINT OR NEAR MINT ONE OF THESE? JAMIE


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks Jamie. I've have seen them locally at antique shops for $100 but they never go anywhere. My guess at fair market value is around $15-20 with a bonus for super mint condition. The most I've ever sold one for is about $35 (but it was a few years ago when the market was better). There is almost always interest in them and I have never sold one for less than $10. If you'd like, I'll throw one up on the bay and we'll know the current fmv.


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## glass man

COOL! THANKS FOR THE INFO!IF I WERE ABLE TO DIG I THINK I COULD FIND SOME OF THESE PRETTY EASY,BUT THE DUMP IS IN THE WORST PART OF TOWN. BACK IN THE 70S LOT OF STUFF WAS JUST ON TOP OF THE GROND IN THIS DUMP[THE DUMP WAS ONLY 30 - 40 YEARS OLD THEN,BUT LITTLE WAS WORTH MUCH IN THIS DUMP THEN. ONLY WENT TO SEE IF I COULD FIND ANY LATE "CHRISTMAS" COKE  BOTTLES. [DEC. 25 1923] JAMIE


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## blobbottlebob

Here is a John Graf clay that a buddy of mine recently sold on ebay. Despite the marketplace, I think this held its value reasonably well. It sold for around $80 including the shipping. Note the low stamping. I suppose the artisan that made these could stamp them at any height. 

 Here's an auction link if anyone wants to see mire pictures . . .
http://cgi.ebay.com/1880s-John-Graf-Milwaukee-Wi-stoneware-blob-beer-bottle_W0QQitemZ280384686278QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item41483ac8c6&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14


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## capsoda

Nice stonner Bob. Ant idea what closure it used? Lightning or something more exotic? Jamie, I want one of those blimp bottles it you dig any spares.


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## blobbottlebob

Usually, it was a lightning. Some of them turn up with odd little metal bands around the neck.

 I have those Zeps if anybody wants one PM me.


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## blobbottlebob

Here's a lightning stopper imprinted with the Graf name.


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## glass man

> ORIGINAL:  capsoda
> 
> Nice stonner Bob. Ant idea what closure it used? Lightning or something more exotic? Jamie, I want one of those blimp bottles it you dig any spares.


  SURE CAP! MAN I NEVER REALISED HOW LONG OR HOW MANY ITEMS CAME FROM THIS CO.! THANK YOU BOB! HEY DID THE DECO ZEP. BOTTLES HAVE TOWNS ON THEM? NEVER NOTICED. LAST TIME IN THE 90S A FRIEND AND I WENT TO THE DUMP I WAS TALKING BOUT ,MY FRIEND FOUND ONE IN THE GUY'S GARDEN WHERE WE PARKED. JAMIE


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## blobbottlebob

I just checked the bottom of a dozen Zep bottles. Every one of mine reads JOHN GRAF CO. / (then a number between 1 and 6) / MILWAUKEE (arched) / WIS.

 I suppose that it may have had other towns (but I have never seen it if it does).


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## blobbottlebob

Here's a Hutchinson stopper imprinted with the Graf name.


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## capsoda

He sure wanted everyone to know what was his. Email sent Bob.


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## CALDIGR2

Somewhere around here I have a flat type porcelain stopper that says "Graf's, The Best What Gives". Graf's is in nice script.


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## blobbottlebob

Cool! Thanks for posting that! It is a very nice stopper with a neat little sunburst and sharp clean writing. I think it is reasonably good one.


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## bottlingco

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> Ever find a bottle embossed with the phrase "THE BEST WHAT GIVES"? You are not alone (if you have). John Graf was one of the most prolific bottlers of sodas and weiss beers from Milwaukee. One thingÂ that was amazing about the company (besides their command of the english language) was the vast number and types of bottles they used. I am convinced that John Graf was a marketing genius. He changed bottle types often to reflectÂ changingÂ bottle styles and used an amazing array of closure mechanisms.Â He also advertised, made stoppers, glasses, seltzers, openers, ash trays, . . you name it, trying to get the name out there at every opportunity. I thought that it might be neat to begin a post showing some of the various bottles that he made. It will certainly be easy to add new pics on a regular basis because of the many variants out there.
> 
> One great thing about Graf bottles is that anyone trying hard enough can get their hands on one. Common examples can easily be purchased. They turnÂ up on the bay often enough.Â On the other hand, some Graf bottles are so rare that stacks of hundreds wouldn't help (because none are out there for sale).
> 
> Many people nowadys still remember Grandpa Graf's root beer. It may even be still available. Last I heard, an Illinois company called Canfields was still selling it. Graf's was, however, a prolific brewer of weiss beer at the turn of the century. There are some great examples to come that will show that better.
> 
> Graf began his bottling career in 1873 in a partnership with Phillip Madlener. (date is credited to Roger Peters - Thanks Roger!) About ten years later, Graf bottles no longer had the Madlener embossing. It seems appropriate to start with a few pics of those early bottles.





> Many people nowadys still remember Grandpa Graf's root beer. It may even be still available. Last I heard, an Illinois company called Canfields was still selling it. Graf's was, however, a prolific brewer of weiss beer at the turn of the century. There are some great examples to come that will show that better.


 
 Here is an extremely rare version of the Gran'pa Graf's Root Beer.


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## blobbottlebob

Hey thanks for showing us your acl. Nice texture on the bottle too. I am hoping that a friend will send me some pics of a few spectacular examples that he has. I will post them when they come through.


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## blobbottlebob

Here is an old sign for diet Graf"s sodas It's up on the bay right now.


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## junkyard jack

I've always liked those mug base bottles. Sometimes I wish I collected more than fruit jars. []


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## blobbottlebob

I just changed some of the bottles in my window sill and went for Graf weiss beers. Love the shading on these. Sruck me as neat so I snapped a shot.


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## blobbottlebob

Also. A real beauty of a stoneware beer just sold on the bay as a buy-it-now for $185. It has gorgeous cobalt petals on it (which I had never seen before).

 Here's a link. I need to downsize the pic.
 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-John-Graf-Pottery-Stoneware-Beer-Bottle-Blue-Peddles-Milwaukee-WI-1883-1920-/160914086899?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&nma=true&si=%2FoFH3yWmjExlxjopURqDB28ij9Q%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 I destroyed the attachment. Don't click on it.[]


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## blobbottlebob

Okay. The pic.


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## epackage

Very nice window shot Bob, I've always liked these, the Stonie is killer!


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks E. I tried to buy the stoner. I was high bidder at $75 (but reserve was not met). It would have been hard to spend more on a bottle that I am not supposed to be collecting.

 Those weiss beers are neat. The orangish amber one at right is in the normal color range of what you find here. The dark one at left is more unusual (it is actually dark red under strong light). The yellowish bottle is quite rare. I have only seen one other example.


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## coldwater diver

Hey Bob you have really got some really nice looking bottles there. Lots of beer drinking in that part of the country. I hope to be able to suprise even myself and post a bunch of my prized found bottles. 2013 resolution!


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks Coldwater. Can't wait to see them.


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## myersdiggers1998

Nice writeup BOB and thanks for the grafs you sent me...


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## blobbottlebob

Here is the eight sided crown Weiss beer with the word 'weiss' actually embossed on one of the panels. My dive buddy found one this year when we were out together. He has it up on the bay. Rare example with Weiss on it. I've never found one.


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## sandchip

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> I think that the previous bottles eventually evolve into this more attractiveÂ design.


 
 Good looking bottle.  Reminds me of the Ira Harvey teepee that's up for auction, with the squatty body and long neck.  Really great bottles in this thread, especially the three ambers in the window shot.


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks Sand. More to come, I hope...


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## cacarpetbagger

Nice thread, love the earlier mug base examples especially the teal and amber ones.


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## lblackvelvet

Hello, Very nice bottle you have displayed in this thread. I wish I had one of the root beer bottles. Anyhow, here is a Graf's grape soda can I picked up for about a buck or so. Thought some of you may like the picture. Don't have a Date to share, It did take can opener to open the soda.  Thanks,  Kevin...


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks for posting that lblack. Not too many cans come out of the water in decent shape but I do see rusty ones down there. I think he used the background color so that purchasers would immediately recognize the flavor that they wanted.


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## Nactex

Do you have the patented pri-off top Graf's bottles? I also have 2 different Graf's Picnic bottles, half gallon size I believe. One is a Waukesha John Graf's Spring Water and the other a John Graf's Soda Water, I believe. Pictures to follow.


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## blobbottlebob

Hey. I was just looking at this thread and I never posted an example of the 8 sided weiss beer that has a mold problem in the word EMPTY. These are harder to find and crude looking.


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## shotdwn

Great thread! Quite an assortment of bottles for one company. Very educational. I always enjoy learning about bottles I haven't paid much attention to in the past. I will have to start looking more closely at Graf bottle in the future.


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## blobbottlebob

Thanks Shotdwn. And welcome to the forum. Good luck out there collecting.


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