# Genuine Farina perfume and counterfeits



## |MDB| (Oct 19, 2011)

There are several posts on this forum regarding Jean Marie Farina. All of the posted examples are known counterfeit bottles circa 1850s and are clear, short and multi-paneled bottles.

 Does anyone have an original, long green Farina phial with a label? The attached picture shows three counterfeit short bottles and one genuine long,  green-glass one, as well a '4711' cologne bottle with label since the 4711 product's history is contemporary with, and used a similar formula as, the Farina product. 

 I have inserted in the attached image a photo of an original long, green Farina specimen, obtained online. Does anyone have any useful information on when the Farina company stopped using the tapered green phial-like vessel in favor of a clear-glass, short multi-paneled bottle?

 This is the information already posted to this site but sans info on the genuine article:

 "Eau de Cologne is said to have been invented by Giovanni Paolo  
 de Feminis towards the end of the 17th century. On October 8th, 
 1792, the Cologne merchant Wilhelm MÃ¼lhens received as a  
 wedding present an old parchment with the recipe for "aquamirabilis" miracle water). 
 He recognised the value of this gift and started to manufacture this 
 Eau de Cologne (water from Cologne). However, Gianmaria Farina is 
 also said to have acquired the recipe, and he started manufacturing an 'admirable' in 1714. 

 "The use of the actual name 'Eau de Cologne' is documented from 
 1742. In 1810, Napoleon I decreed that it was only allowed to be 
 sold as a perfume, not as a medicine. It was during the French 
 occupation of Cologne that the brand name '4711' was coined. In 
 order to tax the inhabitants more efficiently, all the houses in 
 Cologne were numbered consecutively, and the house of the MÃ¼lhens 
 family was house no. 4711. After seven generations of MÃ¼lhens 
 managers, the firm was sold in 1994 to the Wella concern."


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

I have found a few of those clear hexagonal ones and they always came out of sites much later than the 1850s. More like 1880s-1890s. Others have probably found them also.


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

> Jean Marie Farina


 
 Here is a vial supposedly from 1840-1850s.

 from
 http://books.google.com/books?id=6O4EykAA1YQC&pg=PA124&lpg=PA124&dq=%22Jean+Marie+Farina%22+bottle+label&source=bl&ots=aiRi299aA3&sig=8F6ONqhiXWnQVzDhLn9V9X21iUc&hl=en&ei=TjGfTpW1CKb30gHOsqScCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CG8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22Jean%20Marie%20Farina%22%20bottle%20label&f=false


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## |MDB| (Oct 19, 2011)

Hello, AntiqueMeds. Thanks for posting the image of a Farina clear glass phial. All of the previous posts to this forum of Farina products were of the short multi-sided clear glass bottle variety. The green glass phial with spiral label likely was the earliest design; the clear glass phial with non-spiral label probably was the second packaging design; and the short multi-sided clear glass bottle seems to have been the final design. The latter probably was toward a stronger, longer-lasting bottle.

 PS: the mid1850s was a rough estimate, your estimate is more accurate.


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

The plain sheared lip bottles seem pretty typical of late 19th century European. Ive seen it on French and German bottles. The USA  rarely used that type of lip finish after the mid 19th century. I expect it made a reliable closure difficult.

 Why do you call the later clear bottles conterfeits? Is that documented somewhere?


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## |MDB| (Oct 19, 2011)

Hi, AntiqueMeds. Two of mine have pontil scars and look legit except that a member here on this site sent an email to the Farina perfume company and he posted the company's reply to him. The company informed him that the item was counterfeit due to the address on the bottles being different from the proper labeling of "_*Vis a vis Place Juliers No. 4*_". His bottle read "_*A la Place Juliers No.4*_" if I recall correctly. Two of the three I dug also read "_*A la Place Juliers No.4*_" while the third one says "_*Place Juliers No.4*_"

 I did not realize they were counterfeits until I read it on this site.


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## RIBottleguy (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm a little confused about the whole counterfeit thing.  I know for a fact that any dug bottle dug in context with similar aged bottles is not fake.  Are you saying the hexagonal bottles were made by someone who wasn't part of Jean Marie Farina's company?  It is very likely some of these bottles, though they originated from Europe, were made in America due to its popularity.  I had a hexagonal pontiled one I could guarantee you is from the 1840s-1850s.  
 Anyway, best of luck finding this elusive green phial!


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

Interesting. 
 a la place   and  vis a vis place basically mean about the same thing to me. I could see either being used on a bottle. 
 I wonder what the ads used around that time?


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

its tough to use the pontil mark for dating on the French perfume bottles. Ones like Lubin were pontil marked up until 1900. The form likely didnt vary through much of the 19th century.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 19, 2011)

From reading this interesting thread, it seems I might have one of the early ones W/O label.. unless this bottle type was used by other companies.. it would be nice to know for sure.. [sm=rolleyes.gif]


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 19, 2011)

Looking through the early New York newspapers I see a LOT of differenet people claiming to be importing GENUINE Farina cologne.
 It was very popular and that always meant a lot of cheap copycats.  So I'd say conterfeits were very likely.
 There was even a joke article about a British gent who went to Cologne to buy a bunch of Farina perfume and he found half the people in town were distilling it and selling it. He got ripped of of course.[]


 Nice bottle Charlie. Seems like I have also seen that form with olive oil labels (or some type of food oil?).


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## RIBottleguy (Jan 27, 2012)

I just acquired one of the large green phials with the original label that reads "Johann Maria Farina/ Julichs Platz No. 4"  
 It doesn't have a pontil but looks to be 1870s.  I'll post a picture soon.  
 Oh, and it's for sale.


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## RIBottleguy (Jan 27, 2012)

Here are some pics:


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## ri2u (Oct 4, 2013)

I have a real one with a label.  Anyone have a sense of what it's worth?


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