# BLACKENED MAPLE SYRUP BOTTLE? HELP!



## s3iinc (Apr 5, 2005)

My father found this bottle in an old barn in rural California in the early 1960's. It looked then the same as it does now: Black. To me it looks like an old maple syrup bottle, but I could be wrong. I broke it about 30 years ago and glued the pieces back, which still hold. Could someone please tell me more about it and if it is worth anything? Thank you in advance for any information you can provide.
 Thanks, Susan


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## bearswede (Apr 5, 2005)

Hi Susan...

 Welcome to the forum!

 It's a scroll whiskey flask... Not sure of the McKearin number... Most seem to have been pontiled, dating them to around the mid 19th century, or possibly earlier... Can you give us a photo of the base?

 Had it not been broken, it could have been worth some money...

 Nice flask!

 Ron


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## s3iinc (Apr 5, 2005)

Wow, Ron:
 Thanks for the quick reply.
 Here's a photo of the base. Does it still have value? I think it is repairable because there are no missing pieces. I can send you a close up of the crack, if it's worth the effort.
 Best regards,
 Susan


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## bearswede (Apr 5, 2005)

It looks to me to be an iron pontil... If you can get a picture of the damage, that'd be great... As to monetary value, that would depend: If the particular piece is highly sought after and the damage is minimal, your bottle would still be saleable... As far as repair goes, you have probably already done what could be done...

 Ron


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## s3iinc (Apr 5, 2005)

Hi Ron:
 You are so nice. Thank you for all the help. Here's a photo of the crack (front and back). It looks like I broke the neck off. The yellow stuff in the crack is wax. I guess I was using it as a candle holder. Shame on me. Where on the web would you suggest I try to sell it? I ran a search on Ebay and nothing under "scroll whiskey flask" showed up as a comparison. 
 I did find them on www.absenteeauctions.com, but I don't know anything about that site, do you?
 Again thanks, Ron.
 Susan


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## bearswede (Apr 5, 2005)

Susan...

 There are actually 6 items currently on ebay... Go to collectibles>bottles & insulators>bottles>antique(pre-1900)

 Type in the search box: scroll flask

 You might want to get an expert appraisal and professional repair before you try to sell it...

 Ron


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## s3iinc (Apr 5, 2005)

Hi Ron:
 Do you really think I should get it repaired and appraised? Is it that old and valuable?
 Any suggestions on who to repair it and/or appraise it?
 I can't believe I found you...
 Susan


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## BRIAN S. (Apr 5, 2005)

Hi Susan , 
  It's hard to determine what mold variant your scroll flask is from your pics . They made a lot of different variants. Does it have any markings ( words ) embossed on it ? And if you look thru it at a bright light or the sun.....is it a dense Olive Green or dense Red Amber ? Or what color ?
  And can you tell if it is a Quart or pint size ? 
 Is the neck the only place you broke it ? Could have been a costly break, because it is a scarce coloration . These flask are most comonly seen in Aqua....But because it is such a dense color it could be repaired fairly easily and would have some monetary value for display purposes.  But professional repairs are costly. 
 Brian


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## bearswede (Apr 6, 2005)

*RE: BLACKENED:ATTN: LobeyCat!!!*

Rich...

 It's right here!!!


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## kastoo (Apr 6, 2005)

Cool...many diggers hope to find these...you always could put it on Ebay if you want to sell it and see what shakes...not sure but think the good ones start at 300 bucks...I never saw one that dark of course I'm no expert.


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## s3iinc (Apr 6, 2005)

Dear Ron, Brian, bearswede, kastoo, et al.
 Since I joined your forum yesterday and got such great response, I did a little research too. My impression is they made black bottles back then to protect the whiskey from the light. It is as black as black can be. No other color. All these years I thought it was black from radiation. Maybe I was wrong. It's a pint size.
 When my dad found it, it must have been lying on the ground. He never would have gone digging for it. That's why we thought the sun turned it black. 
 I'm in California. Are there any reputable repair people out here (or anywhere I guess) from whom I could get an estimate?
 You guys are a real treasure. I appreciate all the interest and great information.
 Best regards,
 Susan


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## s3iinc (Apr 6, 2005)

To Brian:
 Me again. There is no lettering. Just a very distinct pattern. Other than my horrible accident, the bottle has very little wear or grinding down of the pattern. The pontil is very sharp and distinct.
 Susan


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## BRIAN S. (Apr 6, 2005)

Hi again Susan , 
  There are like 40 + different mold variants in the Scroll flasks . But by it being a pint ....that has narrowed it down . Some mold variants had Louisville , KY. , J.R. & Son , Rough & Ready , ect. ....that's why I asked if it had any lettering. 
   The Woman that I knew that did repairs has just disapeared from the bottle world . She would on average get 100.00 for a repair .... and she was the best that I had ever seen. I don't know of anyone else that repairs....But some of the other forum members may know of someone. 
   The color has me a little stumped. It doesn't pass light at all ? Do you think it may have been treated with something that stained or painted the glass on the inside ? 
   I know this will sound funny .... But take the flask and hold it to your cheek. Does it feel cold ? And also , you mentioned that the pontil was sharp ..... in your pic it looks like a iron pontil ???? 
   Brian


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## s3iinc (Apr 6, 2005)

Hi Brian:
 I'll do all the tests you suggest tonight and get back to you in the morning. I'm at my office today. I'll also go over it with a big magnifying glass I have to see if there's something I can't see with my old eyes.
 Until tomorrow...
 Susan


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## medbottle (Apr 6, 2005)

Hello s3iinc.  Looking at the area of the break, your bottle appears to be a dark olive green in color.  Is that glue I'm seeing, or is light getting under the edge of the break to give us a hint of the color?


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## BRIAN S. (Apr 6, 2005)

Susan , 
  I enhanced your photo and I'm also picking up an Olive green .








 Susan , Why I asked you to hold it to your cheek .... is that usually artificially colored (stain,paint,dye,ect. )bottles feel more like room temp. or warm and a normal unenhanced bottle will feel cold to the touch of your cheek. 
 But after enhancing your photo..... I believe its color has not been enhanced or altered. 
 It looks to be a deep dense Olive green. A very diserable color in a scroll. But , after enhancing the photo of the lip/neck photo.....it looks to be broken/cracked in several different places....hurting the value substantially. 
  Brian


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## bearswede (Apr 6, 2005)

Hey Med...

 I think Susan said it was wax...

 Where's LobeyCat? He's supposed to be here helping us out...


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## bearswede (Apr 6, 2005)

*RE: BLACKENED:ATTN: LobeyCat!!!*

RICHARD... You come here this instant!!!


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## s3iinc (Apr 6, 2005)

Hi Medbottle:
 I'm going to give it a big once over under some bright lights tonight to see if there is some other color other than black. The hint of color near the break is either the china glue I used or some candle wax. Awful me, I was using it as a candleholder when I broke it. I wasn't too smart back in my twenties, some 30+ years ago.
 I'll report back tomorrow. 
 I did read an article about how glass turns black at the atomic level when exposed to radiation.  (http://www.chem.colostate.edu/~glass/irradiation.html
 The only radiation this thing could have been exposed to was the sun, unless it traveled from a Nevada test site in its lifetime. Would the sun have been enough over a long period of time?
 Thanks to everyone for all the great information and response. This is my first internet forum! You're all terrific!
 Regards,
 Susan


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## s3iinc (Apr 6, 2005)

Brian:
 The color you see is glare under a neon light. But I'm going to try to see green tonight or tomorrow in the sunlight.

 Yes, I think I cracked the neck off in 2-3 big chunks. I would like to get it professionally repaired because all the pieces are there if it will restore some of the value. As old as it must be, it is worth restoring to me just because I have had it for over 40 years. 

 I'm still waiting to hear from you guys on a trusted restorer. Too bad that Woman you mentioned disappeared.

 Under the conditions where my dad found it, in an old barn out in the middle of no where, it's hard to believe someone tampered with it. Though who knows.
 Regards, 
 Susan


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## s3iinc (Apr 7, 2005)

Eureka! I held my black bottle up to the light and it is definitely olive green! It never occurred to me to do that all these years. I cannot find any lettering unless you need a microscope to see it, it's not there. Can someone please now tell me who made it, maybe?


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## BRIAN S. (Apr 7, 2005)

Hi , 
 Lobey , I'm not doubting you as Flasks are not my field and you may be correct. I just thought with that coloration , lip treatment , pint size , and iron pontil that it might be a GIX 10a. I don't have a McKEARINS ....does any of the forum members have one ? 
 Lobey is correct.....professional repairs are costly. But it would be a nice display piece or filler until a mint example came along !!!
  Brian


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## tazmainiendigger (Apr 8, 2005)

Just stumbled on this site while checking out info on my flask's. I just happend  to see a bottle that looks quite similar to yours... Scroll down on the link it is #7   Taz   www.antiquebottles.com/flask/fame.html


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## s3iinc (Apr 8, 2005)

THANKS ALL OF YOU! Your forum is such a treasure of information and help. You guys are so savvy. 

 Thanks, Taz. I checked out that site and two of the bottles look like mine. And what a good idea to list it on Ebay with an outrageous reserve to see how high it goes. Should I mention the damage or not. If not, it might give me an idea of how high I should go for the repair.

 I just ordered the McKearins from my local library. It should be here in a few days. I'll keep you posted when I can make a match.

 Also, Brian. I held it to my cheek and it's cold.

 Lobeycat. No more candles. It's wrapped in bubblewrap and stored in my sweater drawer! Thanks for the repair link.

 Regards, Susan


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## appliedlips (Apr 8, 2005)

Susan,

      Brian is right,you have a G IX-10a.Would sell in the $1200-$1500 range if mint.As is maybe $100.Even if you are to get it repaired will never be worth anything near the mint price,maybe $300.It would be worth getting repaired as it is an awesome bottle,that still would look good in any collection.Doug


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## s3iinc (Apr 8, 2005)

Wow. That's totally depressing news. Thanks, Doug. You've made my weekend...


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## BRIAN S. (Apr 8, 2005)

Don't get depressed ..... Well look at it this way Susan......It's only worth a 100.00 , if that much " as is ". But only a few days ago it was just an old worthless candle holder !!!!  
 Brian


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## bearswede (Apr 9, 2005)

It's easy to get down about stuff like this, but imagine the feeling a person would get if they recognized some piece they sold at a garage sale for $5 being appraised on Antiques' Roadshow for $10,000!!!

 Yikes!!!


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## s3iinc (Apr 9, 2005)

Thanks for the words of encouragement. Yes, I know it's all a matter of perspective. I'm just kicking myself for breaking such a valuable artifact. I'm probably going to list it on Ebay and see what I can get for it. Maybe a dealer like you guys will pick it up who will enjoy it and have some appreciation for it, cracked and all...
 Thanks again, guys. Funny, you've got me looking for old bottles everywhere I go.
 Regards,
 Susan


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## BRIAN S. (Apr 10, 2005)

LOL  Susan ,  Sounds like the bottle bug has bitten !  Good luck with your auction ! 
 Brian


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## s3iinc (Apr 10, 2005)

Thank, Brian.


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## s3iinc (Apr 11, 2005)

Thanks, Julie:
 I had already decided to list damage, but thanks for the sound advice. If I hadn't mentioned the damage it was when I was just going to use Ebay to get an idea of how much it was worth mint. Now thanks to Doug, I've got that depressing information.
 Yes, it is beautiful, boo hoo.
 Regards,
 Susan


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## KentOhio (Apr 15, 2005)

Hi, Susan, 
 Welcome to the world of bottle collecting! Nobody's said this yet, but your flask dates to the 1840's to 1860's. Scroll flasks were made at dozens of different glassworks back then, from New England to Kentucky. It might have even been made in Ravenna, Ohio, just a few miles from me. Come to think of it, the historical society does have a black one on display.
 Believe it or not, I like collecting broken flasks. They have just as much history, but cost a whole lot less. Plus, I don't have to worry about breaking them, lol. If you do sell yours I'll be interested.


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## s3iinc (Apr 18, 2005)

Hi KentOhio:
 I'm going to list it on Ebay probably this week. I'll keep you posted when I do. If it looks like it's not going to sell, maybe you could make me an offer. I've found out a lot more about it. There's an identical one to mine at http://www.antiquebottles.com/flask/fame.html. 

 They're description states:

 GIX-10a Scroll Flask in very rare black glass coloration.

 Attributed to Wheeling Glass Works in Wheeling, WV. 

 Thanks, Susan


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