# How do you replace top on bottle?



## oldcrownbock (Jan 28, 2010)

I posted pic of my Excelsior bottle that needs top fixed I know nothing about this but I want to get it fixed.I looked on ebay and think I found some bottles that match but how can I tell? they are $30+ to buy.Are all tops same size if look same beer bottle wise? How is this done? money is no matter just want it fixed.Does anyone do this work still.

 Thanks


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## ombudsman (Jan 28, 2010)

This may be no help at all, but here is how I would do it if it were my bottle and it was very important to me. 

 I have repaired many chipped opals by using Epoxy 330 (water clear epoxy,) tinting the resin appropriately. You can buy special colorants for epoxy, but I have found that Testor's paint (in extremely small amounts) works just fine. After the resin cures, I sand and polish the repair just like a stone. The epoxy seems to "pull" the flashes of opal fire up into it (visually) and the repairs are essentially invisible.

 As to your bottle, first I would lightly sand the broken surfaces (to provide "tooth" for the epoxy) then I would create a mold (on the bottle) and fill it with properly tinted epoxy. It would, of course, take a good deal of pre-pour experimentation to get the color right. Then I'd sand (and shape the very top) and polish the repair. Making the mold correct would, obviously, be the difficult part of the job. I can think of several possible ways to do this. 

 Another way to do this would be to plug the mouth of the bottle and simply mold big globs of tinted epoxy on the broken sections (again, after providing some tooth,) then, using thin sanding disks and wheels (Dremel maybe?) to "carve" the proper shape. Then fine sand and polish just like a soft stone. This might be the easier method, if the operator is skillful.

 This is what I would do with my own bottle - and I'd have to very badly want it repaired to invest this much work. I would not take on this job for money.

 Hope this is helpful.
 Dave

 EDIT: I just looked again at your bottle. I think the repair I described would definitely be manageable. Please do not ask me to do it. I have way too much on my plate to take it on.


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## oldcrownbock (Jan 28, 2010)

Thanks  for info and that might do job I know people have talked about replacing tops and see where it could be done anyone do that or know of someone who does?


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## suzanne (Jan 28, 2010)

I've never done exactly such a repair but I wouldn't go with e-bay unless I could be absolutely assured of a perfect match;  especially if I had to spend 30.00 on it.    I would get as exact as possible DIAMETER of the base of the blob (because it might be tapered) and take the bottle with you when you go to auctions and stuff so you can get an exact COLOR match.   Can you tell if your blob has a MOLD SEAM that goes all the way to the top?  Those are the 3 things you would want to match.  I would not be in a hurry since it may take some time to stumble across the perfect candidate.  

 You would have to have a way to shear the old top off completely right at the point of the top of the decorative ring so as to hide the repair> sort of like how a plastic surgeon would hide a surgery scar in a naturally occuring fold of  a persons skin.   I don't know the ins and outs of cutting glass but maybe someone on here could be of help.  Good luck.


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## suzanne (Jan 28, 2010)

I forgot to mention, to get a blob with the same bottom diameter you would just have to get one with the same circumfrence.


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## ombudsman (Jan 28, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> You would have to have a way to shear the old top off completely right at the point of the top of the decorative ring so as to hide the repair> sort of like how a plastic surgeon would hide a surgery scar in a naturally occuring fold ofÂ  a persons skin.Â Â  I don't know the ins and outs of cutting glass but maybe someone on here could be of help.Â  Good luck.Â


 

 I have lapidary diamond blades that would certainly saw the top off, though if it were my bottle, I wouldn't choose to try to repair it that way. Most rock shops would have the equipment to cut the top off. The cost should be minimal.

 Personally, I would consider a bottle repaired with a replacement lip as _assembled_ rather than _repaired_.


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## oldcrownbock (Jan 28, 2010)

Thanks to both of you for input very much to think of far as matching up.What ya mean by rock shops? also do you split the top off by cutting or just cut across? Seams like ya take new top and get extra glass out(with demeral?) and slip it over old bottle? all new to me


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## ombudsman (Jan 28, 2010)

I think what Suzanne was referring to is to: cut off the broken top and glue on an appropriate top from the "donor" bottle.

 BTW, an advantage of the repair strategy I described is that if your first attempt(s) fail, you can just remove your work by soaking it in acetone for a day or three.

 A rock shop is a business that sells rocks, minerals, fossils, lapidary equipment (including rock tumblers and grit) and other things pertinent to amateur earth science. Correct me if I'm wrong, but since you had not heard the term "rock shop", I'm guessing that you don't live "around here"[]


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## JOETHECROW (Jan 28, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: oldcrownbock
> 
> I posted pic of my Excelsior bottle that needs top fixed I know nothing about this but I want to get it fixed.I looked on ebay and think I found some bottles that match but how can I tell? they are $30+ to buy.Are all tops same size if look same beer bottle wise? How is this done? money is no matter just want it fixed.Does anyone do this work still.
> 
> Thanks


 
 This probably occured to you, but couldn't you go to your local dump and gather up some broken blobtops to experiment with? ....Just a thought...(or perhaps you don't have such an area to go to?)....bummer if you don't...[]                                     Joe


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## ombudsman (Jan 28, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  JOETHECROW
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 That's a good idea.


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## oldcrownbock (Jan 28, 2010)

Lol I looked around for "rock shop" but only found drums and guitars just kidding but will look into it.Hi Joe that is nice bottle and it is only $20? sorry was gonna ask ya thanks  for pic.I dont have any area to find bottles but these are oldies are 1880 blobs applied as well?


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## JOETHECROW (Jan 28, 2010)

Hmmmm,....I suppose I should never take our old dumps up in the woods as a given,...Someday they'll be gone too,....(sigh!)[] Anyhow, It shouldn't take too much effort to find your new top....It's not a weird color or anything>???Someone in your area might be able to give you some broken blobs, or take you to a 'dug out' dump for frags.... Also,..yes that Golden hill bottle...19.00 + shipping to a good home...[]  Thanks for asking...                Joe


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## oldcrownbock (Jan 28, 2010)

Joe you know anyone who can do a better job then me? I never done it before lol so if someone hasdoneit they got one on me.


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## JOETHECROW (Jan 28, 2010)

There was someone on here that cut down a broken top torpedo style bottle for someone (into a vase/pencil cup style thing) and did a nice job,...but I'm not sure about actual repairing/replacing......I'll keep my ears and eyes open for someone. Have you tried the search function on here?.......                                            J.B.


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## suzanne (Jan 29, 2010)

Or maybe you could contact a local glass shop or windshield replacement shop.  Ace hardware stores do glass cutting also.  The 2 tops would have to be cut off at a pretty accurate right angle.  Then you could take the new top and set it on the bottle to see if it lines up well before actually gluing it on.  I use windshield repair kit from autozone.  The only part of the kit you really need is the resin and the clear plastic curing strips.  The sun does the rest.  It's easy.


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## BarbaraInCalif (Jan 29, 2010)

Hey Rick...look up "lapidary" in the yellow pages or online..that will get you to the kind of rock shop you want!

 Found this picture on eBay today and thought of you...and how NOT to do the repair.  My apologies (geez I miss spellcheck here) if this bottles belongs to a forum member:


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## ombudsman (Jan 29, 2010)

I realize that this is an issue of personal attitudes, and we can all do what we are comfortable with, but...

 If you "repair" this bottle by cutting off the damaged top and replacing it with an undamaged similar top you will be discarding part of the original object and turning the bottle into a "fake." The word "fake" is strong and wouldn't really apply unless the bottle were offered for sale as original, but still, what you would have is a facsimile of the original bottle. 

 Even if the results of the method I have proposed does not produce an invisible repair, at least you have recreated the pre-damaged bottle without destroying part of the original. I'm sure you have seen, in museums, ancient objects repaired with very obvious fills. This is the same deal. No museum would cut off the damaged top of an ancient amphora and replace it with an undamaged one.

 The resin method I have proposed has, as I have pointed out, the advantage of retreat - the craftsman can easily remove an failed attempt with no loss of anything but time.

 There are certainly businesses that specialize in the restoration of porcelain and glass objects. A professional could certainly produce an invisible (or nearly so) restoration. No one here, myself included, seems to be familiar with specific companies. You can find these businesses if you try. You might check with larger museums as to the best company. I believe I can assure you that none of these businesses would suggest that you cut off original glass to put on a "fake" top.
 Dave


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## ombudsman (Jan 29, 2010)

A Google search for "antique glass restoration" (without the quotes) produced over a million hits. Try it.


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## suzanne (Jan 29, 2010)

Messing around with a broken bottle frequently results in a more broken bottle.  Maybe it is sometimes better to do something "fake" that looks real than to end up with a pile of broken glass.


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## ombudsman (Jan 29, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> Messing around with a broken bottle frequently results in a more broken bottle.Â  Maybe it is sometimes better to do something "fake" that looks real than to end up with a pile of broken glass.


 
 One is more likely to break a bottle cutting the top off than by adding and shaping a resin filet. In any case, and this is strictly my preference, I would prefer real to "looks real."


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## suzanne (Jan 29, 2010)

Do you know this for a fact or do you just love to argue, because the main thing here is that Old Crown Bock needs help.  Here is what I know for a fact.  When you get into sanding and dremeling a jaggedly broken top like that you are highly likely to lose the rest of it + part of the bottleneck below the blob.    It's because the surrounding glass is weakened by the blow that caused the break.  

 I am not an expert on this type of repair though, I only know some things about how not to make a bigger problem.  If anyone on here really knows about glass cutting please correct me.


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## ombudsman (Jan 29, 2010)

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm expressing an opinion. No offense intended. I have not repaired a bottle, but I have cut and repaired many gemstones, including glass. I have also worked epoxy resin in other contexts.

 It is possible that the dire events you are forseeing could happen if the craftsman is without experience and skill. With skilled craftsmanship the risk would be nil. Yes, I know this for a fact. 

 In any case, the original poster asked if we know who repairs bottles. He said what I took to mean that "money is no object." A google search immediately identifies any number of firms that do work like this. Some of the businesses seem to have good bona fides. A referral from a museum to a restorer would be valuable.

 Obviously it's his bottle. He can repair it in whatever way is satisfying to him. I have simply stated what I would do (because with me, money IS an object!) []

 Still friends?

 Dave


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## suzanne (Jan 29, 2010)

Still friends.  It was wrong of me to question you.  I wanted to come back and say that but you can't edit now.


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## ombudsman (Jan 29, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> Still friends.Â  It was wrong of me to question you.Â  I wanted to come back and say that but you can't edit now.


 
 Thanks. Actually, it wasn't wrong to question me. All those who know me consider me questionable. [sm=lol.gif]


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## suzanne (Jan 29, 2010)

[]


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## JOETHECROW (Jan 29, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: suzanne
> 
> Do you know this for a fact or do you just love to argue, because the main thing here is that Old Crown Bock needs help.  Here is what I know for a fact.  When you get into sanding and dremeling a jaggedly broken top like that you are highly likely to lose the rest of it + part of the bottleneck below the blob.    It's because the surrounding glass is weakened by the blow that caused the break.
> 
> I am not an expert on this type of repair though, I only know some things about how not to make a bigger problem.  If anyone on here really knows about glass cutting please correct me.


 


 A dremel tool creates heat...used _carefully_, you might get away w/ it, but I have worked with glass in various full service glass shops most of my adult life, and the way I would go about it would be to remove the bad area down level with a fresh 'heavy' grit water cooled glass grinding belt.....Then do the same to the replacement top, carefully grinding flush, and fitting till you achieve the best fit,....the ground area will look opaque, similar to a bottle w/ major case wear, and the area would then be 'rough', or toothed enough to cement the glass, using a non yellowing thin viscosity glass adhesive such as Suzzane's w/shield repair kit, or maybe hextal (sp?)clear epoxy based glue....How convincing the repair will look depends on the care of the preparation and the color match of the new top....If I still had access to the grinders and such, I would offer to do the work for you,...but, alas I do not,  A word of caution,...make sure there are no lines (or 'spider' leg cracks protruding down the neck area of the bottle),...sometimes these can be carefully ground away,...but sometimes they'll travel on you too, such as a crack in a windshield will do...This is not really a complicated procedure....[] It just sounds that way....The 'other' right way to do it would be with a wet tile saw.                    Joe


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## ombudsman (Jan 29, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  JOETHECROW
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I wasn't anticipating using a dremel on the glass. Only to shape the resin. A Dremel isn't the tool I would use anyway, most likely. I have lapidary equipment that I think would do the job nicely.

 My major interest in continuing contributions to this thread is my purely personal likes and dislikes. I wouldn't like an assembled bottle. I could live with a repaired one.

 Ultimately, it is my opinion that, assuming he can afford it ($50? $150?), his best option is to have the bottle repaired by an expert, professional conservator.
 Dave


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## JOETHECROW (Jan 29, 2010)

Oh, hey Dave....I wasn't suggesting that you thought a dremel would be good for that (grinding glass)....You frame some very valid points! Everyone has a little different idea of what is acceptable,...etc. I was merely addressing the technical aspects of _replacing_ the top.....I scanned down thru your and Suzanne's exchange and couldn't resist adding my two cents.[]            Joe


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## ombudsman (Jan 29, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  JOETHECROW
> 
> Oh, hey Dave....I wasn't suggesting that you thought a dremel would be good for that (grinding glass)....You frame some very valid points! Everyone has a little different idea of what is acceptable,...etc. I was merely addressing the technical aspects ofÂ _replacing_ the top.....I scanned down thru your and Suzanne's exchange and couldn't resist adding my two cents.[]Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â  Joe


 
 With this economy, 2 cents is valuable! []


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## T D (Jan 29, 2010)

sorry that this thread was hijacked[], but here is my two cents worth.  I collect straight side sodas, most specifically Chero Cola.  I can go both ways on this topic, but let me be specific.  If I had a very rare Chero Cola I would proudly display it with my others in whatever shape it was in.  The question is where to draw the line.  If it were a sliver out of the lip, and it could be restored with some other material, I'm probably o.k.  If most of the top was gone, and it could be replaced by cutting the top (below the bottom ring) off another Chero Cola the same color, I'm probably o.k.  If it were below this, I would think long and hard before joining two bottles together.  At what point is it which bottle??  

 Check this rare Talbotton, Ga. Chero bottle.  Can you still even call it a Talbotton Chero??


 http://cgi.ebay.com/RARE-TALBOTTON-GA-CHERO-COLA-BOTTLE-6-1-2-OZ-L-K_W0QQitemZ400099438400QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d27c8ef40


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## oldcrownbock (Jan 29, 2010)

Wow now them are some replys lol I dont think I can cut bottle myself and would try on a dozen or so first before hitting my good one.The resin Idea looks more inviting if I do work it will be for display I never intend to sell it just around here Excelsior Centlivres bring $500+ I got less then 1/10 so figure could got $75-200 or so  to repair it in this one and gonna send it to be cleaned see how it looks. Thanks again for your help and replys.


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## mtfarmer (Feb 2, 2010)

Hey pal, I've also got a bottle that I've been contemplating as you are.........

 Google "Montano's Glass Repair", get their e-mail address, and drop a note to Wayne.  I think you'll be interested in what he has to say, and his price seems reasonable.  They used to be in California, but have moved their operation to Idaho.  I'm tempted just because I'd like to see what they can do, not because I hope to fool anyone.  It will always simply be a repaired bottle, but if it increases the joy of owning it, who cares.  Good luck![]


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## oldcrownbock (Feb 3, 2010)

Thanks for info and called them and yes price is very resonable just need to decide route to take and or find donor and send out or try the resin method.

 Thanks again so far you all been pretty helpful


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## druggistnut (Feb 4, 2010)

Rick Kern (he used to post here) from Pennsylvania did a blob replacement for Bob (blobbottlebob) in Wisconsin, I think. I remember I sent a very light amber blob to Rick (used in the replacement/repair) and he posted before and after pics. If you go back about a year, you should be able to find it, in this forum.
 I'm not 100% sure it was Bob, but the guy was very happy.
 Bill


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## druggistnut (Feb 4, 2010)

OK, I found the thread. Here it is.  https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-111393/mpage-1/key-blob%2Ctop%2Camber%2Creplacement/tm.htm

 Funny thing, Old crown, Tom also posted a picture of an Excelsior bottle in the same thread. What are the odds of that?
 Bill


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## oldcrownbock (Feb 4, 2010)

Hi Bill 
 I seen that thread along same work I need done.That is unusual mine is beer that one is soda? at moment I am leaning towards resin for work kinda scared to have bottle break since I will be adding to collection and have no intent on parting with it.I am still looking for someone to do work for me either way.


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## druggistnut (Feb 13, 2010)

Hi Rick,
 I think that Excelsior he showed is a soda, only because it's an aqua bottle.
 I have a couple of bottles I need neck/top replacements on, also, and plan on doing it myself, sometime in the future. It's just another thing on hold right now, while a couple of other issues get settled.
 If you find someone, please let me know.
 Bill


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## oldcrownbock (Feb 14, 2010)

I sent mine to be cleaned see how it turns out color and quality wise then go to next step with repair friends say leave it as is broken that is tough for me to do.I will let you know if find good place to do it.


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