# TV production company looking for real 'diggers'



## TreasureTVProducer (Mar 6, 2008)

Are you an expert Dumpdigger? Coin Shooter or Relic  Hunter? Do you take a high tech approach or a low tech approach to find buried  historical objects? We - a successful television production company -  are searching for real diggers with both types of â€˜experienceâ€™ to host a history  / adventure TV show. Weâ€™re looking for a know-it-all that wants everyone to know  it.   Please send a recent photo of yourself, and a brief note outlining your  passion to cabletvshow1@gmail.com. We love to read blogs and follow web links; have  you been on camera? Please send us a link to the video. All replies will be  answered.[/align]


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## tigue710 (Mar 6, 2008)

e-mail sent


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## whitefish (Mar 6, 2008)

Friends if you value the freedom to dig as you do now, be careful of going too public with your hobby.
 Leaving posts and pictures on this and other sites is great and I enjoy reading them along with all the other members, but remember we are still a small fraternity  flying under most peoples radar. When you use a larger form of media that covers a larger spectrum of people your going to draw attention to yourselves and others that will not always be good. There are many diggers out there who are familiar with the story about privy digging that aired on the travel channel, and what kind of attention that drew.  Check out this link...

http://www.mailtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071118/NEWS/711180323

 Something to keep in mind.


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## downeastdigger (Mar 6, 2008)

I'll do it as long as I can have Angelina Jolie as my costar,  kind of a "Tomb raiders" remake involving privies.  In the story, Angie will follow me anywhere, to the ends of the earth, or to the bottom of a privy.  Sounds good to me


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## RedGinger (Mar 6, 2008)

What's the good word, Tigue?  When is your TV debut?


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## tigue710 (Mar 6, 2008)

no word....  Id do it, someone wants to pay me to dig bottles?  come on!  Of course none of em would be worth more then a dollar...


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## whiskeyman (Mar 7, 2008)

I was on TV  this past Tuesday...about Bottles. But not digging of same, more about the thrill of researching their history...and  trying to create awareness of same...[/align]I dinna get paid nuthin'......[][/align] [/align] 
Hope ya have RealPlayer...[/align] It is rather brief....even though the actual interview ran almost 1/2 hour and many more bottles were filmed as well...[/align] [/align]
heres the link:  http://wcybstream.wcyb.tv/stream/archive.asp[/align]Then click....*Tuesday News Center 5 At 6*......Project Family is the Program...Bottle Bonanza is the  clip title...[/align][/align][/align]


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## caldigs (Mar 7, 2008)

Stay AWAY !  The 'Cash and Treasures' episode on privy digging has had horrible consequences on our hobby.  People fail to acknowledge our true intentions and assume we're after money !!!


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## JGUIS (Mar 7, 2008)

No way!  This is bad news and I recommend against it.  It's bad enough now after the first piece of crap episode ran, we sure as hell don't want anyone on TV that knows anything.  A history on bottles would be good, but keep the methods and prices out of it.  WE DON'T HUNT TREASURE, WE HUNT BOTTLES.[>:]


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## adshepard (Mar 7, 2008)

> ORIGINAL: whitefish
> 
> Friends if you value the freedom to dig as you do now, be careful of going too public with your hobby.
> Leaving posts and pictures on this and other sites is great and I enjoy reading them along with all the other members, but remember we are still a small fraternity flying under most peoples radar. When you use a larger form of media that covers a larger spectrum of people your going to draw attention to yourselves and others that will not always be good. There are many diggers out there who are familiar with the story about privy digging that aired on the travel channel, and what kind of attention that drew. Check out this link...
> ...


 

 As soon as I read the subject line of this post I cringed.  The last "incident" as linked above should make anyone wary of participating in this.  Flying under the radar as someone already said is much better for the hobby.  Now I don't dig for my bottles, I dive for them and I don't plan on letting a wider audience know where and why I'm doing it.

 Those archaeologist and historical types have a way of catchin' wind of things and then spoiling all the fun.

 Just my two cents.

 Alan


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## tigue710 (Mar 7, 2008)

they will find someone to do it...  should it be someone who is going to present the hobby as what it is, a hobby, or someone who is going to make it look like you can get rich?


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## appliedlips (Mar 7, 2008)

Please reconsider Tique, and anyone else who might be looking to do this.You are primarily a dump digger so it won't hurt you.You will be screwing those of us who knock on doors all of the time.You will also be hurting the large city diggers who rely on construction sites by educating the workers.I have dug in places where the workers stay late and dig the privies with the equipment,because they can make more than they did working that day.This was because diggers did a local cable show.Several GC's in the area keep tabs on the bottles and secure sites just for this reason.Not that it is a bad thing but you are as much about the money as anyone so it won't be an asset to the hobby I am sure.I am sure if I did a bunch of newspapers articles,created a digging website,and went on cable from time to time I would get alot of permissions and not have to knock on doors.What I would do is screw things up for guys doing it the old fashioned way.Keeping others in mind is very important in these matters.Also when you create a public forum,you create one for those who oppose what we do.A recent newspaper article here in Ohio,done by one of the most down to earth diggers around,went AP,along with the rebuttle by local archeologists.STUPID,STUPID,STUPID.


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## Poeticallyinsane (Mar 7, 2008)

Like most things, it takes only one person to start spoiling things for everyone. Seems like you need a permit to do a lot of things, things that at one time didnt matter but it took that one person to screw things up. Pretty soon people will need a permit to use the bathroom. [&o] I certainly wouldnt go on TV. I like the peace and quiet when I'm bottle hunting. Who needs all those "treasure hunters" sniffing around? Think of the people who wouldnt give a rats butt about the history, they'd only see dollar signs when they take bottles and leave huge gaping holes all over.[]


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## Plumbata (Mar 7, 2008)

> ORIGINAL:  adshepard
> 
> As soon as I read the subject line of this post I cringed.
> 
> Those archaeologist and historical types have a way of catchin' wind of things and then spoiling all the fun.


 

    That was my exact response as well. It is blazingly clear that divulging the secrets and methods of this hobby, which aren't originally yours or mine to begin with anyway, without also communicating the years of experience, knowledge, and intuitive appreciation necessary to make the finds TRULY valuable would only bring negative attention from uptight anthropologists, and attract hordes of people who want in because of the money, and not the deep experience of the history intrinsic to the items that we unearth. How much info could really be communicated in a 30 minute segment? The TV audience just wants to see action and money, and that is all that the show would present the hobby as being a source of. They want good ratings, ya knowâ€¦

  If you are hunting "treasure," then at least in my mind, if you even have a smidge of intelligence then you wouldn't want to stir up more competition for the scarce gold than there already is. The production company, if it even exists to begin with and if that gmail account wasn't actually set up by a form member looking to quietly make fun of some of the people here who responded, only wants to PROFIT off of your years of hard work. "Weâ€™re looking for a know-it-all that wants everyone to know it," they say, and if this is all real then such a criterion, well... lets just say it pisses me off, as I've explained my views regarding know-it-alls before. Damn, maybe if what they want is some pompous, pretentious, flamboyant treasure hunter it will turn people off to the whole digging thing after all!

  Probably not, though.

  We don't want people in general associating antique bottles and privys/dumps with doubloons and treasure chests. Let the people who can adequately handle this HOBBY come to it on their own, and we can help show them the ropes far better than a TV show ever could. The few people who can dig for a living; I respect any of you who manage to do so, but come on, you'll need to get a real job if more people start seeing the dollar signs that you also do. Anyway, if it comes to it I'd much rather be on the archaeologist's side than the side with 10,000,000 treasure hunters. I hunt for history, and would like to continue doing so for the next 60 years. The value is coincidental, and when I was 5 money had _nothing_ to do with loving old things. Lets not ruin this prematurely, as us humans are prone to do, particularly when profits are involved...


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## GuntherHess (Mar 7, 2008)

I say get all the bottles you are ever going to want, then tell people about bottle collecting.[]


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## digger don (Mar 7, 2008)

I agree with Gunther I can't afford most of the bottles I really want so digging is the only chance I have to get them . Lets keep this hobby for the people who really care about the glass and not the profit.


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## bearswede (Mar 7, 2008)

> I say get all the bottles you are ever going to want


 
 Now, that would take me several lifetimes, I'm afraid...


 Ron


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## RedGinger (Mar 7, 2008)

I'll do it, but I will need several pairs of special shoes.  What's the budget on this production?


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## RedGinger (Mar 7, 2008)

Yes, those and a few others.  You gotta look sharp, this is TV.  []  I will also require a personal bucket puller or two.  This will all be ironed out in the contract.[]


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## bearswede (Mar 7, 2008)

> What's the budget on this production?


 
 Not sure, but I thought I heard Imelda Marcos was head of wardrobe... ROR



 R


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## RedGinger (Mar 7, 2008)

Her style is probably out of date, but at least she has the right idea.  I want to be the head of wardrobe on this show.
 1. Shoes -check
 2. Bucket puller (s) -check
 3. Laur as stylist -check


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## GuntherHess (Mar 7, 2008)

> if every man woman and child in america found and dug a crapper there'd still be more to find. The bottles in the ground belong to anyone and everyone. Share the wealth.


 
 Bottle communism, hmm interesting idea comrade... 
 There are probably enough Bromoseltzers, Vaseline, or Rawleighs bottles to go around but I fear we are going to run short of Stoddard medicines real quick[]


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## whiskeyman (Mar 7, 2008)

I think some of you are over-reacting. Bottle digging is WORK...pure & simple. Often it is unrewarding as well. Most people who may initially be moved or inspired to dig will likely abandon their efforts after spending all day digging holes and failing to find any "valuable" bottles...they may not find any at all. It is discouraging.....as all of us are aware.[/align]There's fellows who know exactly where I dig and not one of them has bothered to venture in &  lift a shovel. In some instances, if not for me taking newbies to dumps here, they'd lie nearly undisturbed for years.[/align]In another case, several of us were digging a dump and while the neighbors were interested in our finds...not one of them ran home to get a shovel and not one of them had ever bothered to dig the dump lying practically in their own backyards.[/align]Treasure magazines featuring bottle digging articles have been around for ages. Bottle magazines with digging stories have been published for decades. Bottle shows are heavily advertisied and held allover the world, also for decades. This Forum and others like it can be accessed by millions over the Web. Yet, some of you are saying all this bottle activity should be squelched and driven underground ? And the reasoning is - exactly what?[/align]I don't see now nor have I ever seen a mad rush by people to suddenly dig bottles in hopes of getting rich.  I believe the majority of people are far more grounded in reality than to expect that to occur.[/align]


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## whiskeyman (Mar 7, 2008)

Thanks LOBEY...I really do value your judgements in most instances...[]

 (if you're not being sarcastic that is. With you, it's often difficult to know)[]

 Like to also add..(while I'm on the soapbox):
I'd like to believe none of us are in the Hobby solely for the monies...that we all have this need to seek out bottles, enjoy learning about same and appreciate the intrinsic worth far more than dollar value. Bottles are pieces of history you can hold in your hand...and easily pass along to future generations.[/align]Not everyone has this ability , that we as bottle collectors possess - to see beyond the dollar sign, to see the inner beauty and special significance a particular bottle holds for us. In this I feel we are unique and,  being unique in this sense is why it's so hard to recruit new collectors into the Hobby.  Digging is indeed work. A work that requires a different set of values or a different type of drive than other hobbies...such as Stamps, Cards, Comics,Coins...[/align]Although I share some of the same reservations posted here,( just not to the same degree),  I think if a TV show can sway more people to join our Hobby, then I welcome the show. [/align]

*"After all - there's power in numbers."*


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## GuntherHess (Mar 7, 2008)

True, the average times used for new metal detectors is about 3 times I think, before people stow them in a closet. Most people wont do the work or dont have the patience to find good stuff. 
 Dosent matter though there are McDonald's give-a-way toys and other knick-knacks out there to collect. Much easy to acquire. Something for everyone[]


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## RedGinger (Mar 7, 2008)

Where's "treasuretvproducer"?  Hmm[]


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## JGUIS (Mar 7, 2008)

That's the thing.  It's not that info shouldn't be out there for the true diggers, and not like it already isn't.  Info is always available to those who look for it.  The boob tube isn't a research tool.  It's an advertising venue, with some entertainment overtones.  If there's morons out ther who will steal grounding straps off of active electric substations, there's morons out there who will see a show about making money in your own backyard, and try to cash in.  Why the need for exposure?  Is it the chance to cash in on your 15 minutes?  How about this, spend your life digging and researching what you love.  Write a book and have it published.  Go down in history forever by having the title of "finder of one of a kind bottle", don't sell out for something  petty and shortlived.  If it's a valid search for someone, don't think that whoever digs and talks is going to have any say in the final edit.  They'll spin it to viewers, not to diggers.


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## tigue710 (Mar 7, 2008)

now thats what I'm saying.  A show could generate interest of course, but we need new diggers. There where probably 100's of thousands more people digging in the 60's then there are now, I doubt a t.v. show will generate as much interest as word of mouth did back then in todays lazy "do it for me" society.  Beside everyone seems to know someone who has or does collect bottles as it is...

 and someone will end up doing this show...

 If I was to do a show like this I would talk down value, talk up beauty and eye appeal and of course spread the word how diggers are a bunch of great hard working people who dig out of love for the hobby and not monetary value...

 I think this show could be a great tool to generate good interest for the hobby, making it easier to get permission to dig and dismiss the rumors that bottles are worth a bunch of money...  

 Doug I understand your concern, but I could keep a camera busy for 10 years in the t.o.c. dumps and never mention a privy except in passing when I exclaim that privy diggers are nuts and never get any good bottles...  let someone else do that!


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## portland med. man (Mar 7, 2008)

me and a friend was asked by a producer to do a short story on privie and dump digging , it was a well  known show the producer was of the show antique roadshow he wanted us to do some digs , we were more then willing to do the show not for getting famous or anything but just thought it would be cool, well he wanted us to dig in new hampshire which is where they are based i guess, well we never did the show cause we would have had to do some homework on dig sites needless to say, another time we where filmed by a film crew, diggin a famous maine town dump that day we must have had some luck on our sides , cause we unearthed 5 z.g auld stoneware beers which are very rare. right on camera, need less to say about that is i never got to see the footage and i dont think anyone else did either........ what a day though, that dump is a killa...... and mostly off limits know.....


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## Ace of spades (Mar 7, 2008)

I dig for money!!!! [8D] And would love to do a TV show then all you ladies can buy my"ACE OF SPADES" t-shirts.


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## mikmis (Mar 7, 2008)

i hope they pick you matt you definatly have the right idea.


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## Plumbata (Mar 7, 2008)

> ORIGINAL:  whiskeyman





> I think some of you are over-reacting. Bottle digging is WORK...pure & simple. Often it is unrewarding as well. Most people who may initially be moved or inspired to dig will likely abandon their efforts after spending all day digging holes and failing to find any "valuable" bottles...they may not find any at all. It is discouraging.....as all of us are aware.[/align]There's fellows who know exactly where I dig and not one of them has bothered to venture in &  lift a shovel. In some instances, if not for me taking newbies to dumps here, they'd lie nearly undisturbed for years.[/align]In another case, several of us were digging a dump and while the neighbors were interested in our finds...not one of them ran home to get a shovel and not one of them had ever bothered to dig the dump lying practically in their own backyards.[/align]




 I don't have nearly as much experience, but just in the last year I've had finds I dug up taken when I went back to the car to get water, and I came upon someone digging in my main dump who was tipped off by his young nephew, who was exploring the woods and came upon me, and hoping to spread the love of the hobby I told the kid  about what I was doing. Can't even trust children. And here, 1950s dumps are being dug. Sounds like you live in a better and more digger-friendly area to dig, but hopefully future experience will prove me at least somewhat wrong.



> ORIGINAL:  whiskeyman





> Treasure magazines featuring bottle digging articles have been around for ages. Bottle magazines with digging stories have been published for decades. Bottle shows are heavily advertisied and held allover the world, also for decades. This Forum and others like it can be accessed by millions over the Web.




  All this is true, but the core difference between all that you mentioned and _this_ kind of media is that Television disseminates whatever is broadcast to a far wider audience, an audience which doesn't know that this forum, those magazines, or a bottle show somewhere even exists to begin with. They certainly _can _access the information, if they look for it, but by presenting the extracted essence of all those resources to a more â€œrelaxedâ€ demographic than you people, without them having to actively look for the supporting info, the show might empower some people who are interested in finding treasure, and not in some way preserving history as well. Ultimately, it all depends on how the show is structured, I suppose. 
 Here, some may argue that it is not history unless it is â€œcivil war relatedâ€ or associated with important people or events or whatever. This is a foolishly arbitrary way of categorizing that which is historically desirable and that which isnâ€™t, unless you have a subconscious bias, or are looking for increased profits. In that case, then it helps out a lot. The civil war was fought by everyday men like you or I, and it is them and their lives that are important, not the years 1861-1865 or the famous names associated. The bottles from then are important because of the human element that encompassed the bottleâ€™s creation and use, a story and perhaps a way of life that permeated the entire age it came from, and not just a superficial event it can be linked to so that more people care about it and thus pay it more attention (and cash). It is all history, in some small way, whether we can access it with our feeble senses or not. 
 I react strongly because I have been screwed as a younger kid by greedy bottle dealers, several times, when I trusted them and the information they presented. When I saw it was all about money and not the love of the history and its implication, and that they were willing to present a false reality so they could profit off me in some way, well, it hurt. I don't want to see the same thing happen universally to this hobby. I don't want even more people than there are already who love money so much that they take advantage of people who love history.



> ORIGINAL:  whiskeyman





> Yet, some of you are saying all this bottle activity should be squelched and driven underground ?




  Who said that? The bottle activity you mentioned is excellent, and if people get on TV and talk about the history of various bottles or interconnected industries then that's awesome too. That would be really great, and if they hinted that such things can still be found in dumpsites, then potential collectors might find their own way to this end. What is not awesome is the potential of making a mockery of what this is all about. Just look at the diggers in Wilmington who cought some flak as a result of their greed, eh?  Bottles are "treasure" in many minds, mine included, but not in the sense of gold chains and gems and crap that can pay for new cars and stuff.  The historical implications are far more important in most cases than monetary worth, and for many people, it is the local bottles that connect them to a more tangible past, and not the nationally available bitters from wherever, that mean the most. The TV show may make it seem like a Dr Kilmerâ€™s is better than a local pharmacy bottle simply because more people will buy it, and that just ain't cool, man. Feel free to disagree.



> ORIGINAL:  whiskeyman





> And the reasoning is - exactly what?[/align]I don't see now nor have I ever seen a mad rush by people to suddenly dig bottles in hopes of getting rich.




   None of us can have reasoning for words not written by anyone else but you, sir.  I haven't seen a rush either, naturally, but this modern society seems to be a lot more about money than it ever has before. I mean hell; it has replaced God for many people, something almost unspeakable 100 years ago. I donâ€™t think there will be a mad rush, its not like this is 1849 or anything, but even if less than ten thousand people are eventually influenced by a TV show or 3 to become successful bottle and relic profiteers who don't record even a little of the historical context, then there would probably be noticeable damage the hobby, at least in terms of available information. It is fine if you record important finds and what they mean and then sell whatever it is, but don't destroy the meaning of the item solely for the love of lifeless cash. If my â€œten millionâ€ statement threw you off, let me assure you it was an exaggeration to the effect of illustrating the point that Iâ€™d rather have history than money, and the figure was in no way proposed as an actual estimate, lol.



> ORIGINAL:  whiskeyman





> I believe the majority of people are far more grounded in reality than to expect that to occur.[/align]




   Well when you phrase it the way you did, I imagine that _no one_ would expect a bottle blitzkrieg to occur. Neither I nor anyone else was trying to make it seem like the end of the world, haha, we were just expressing the definite possibility of TV shows like this setting a precedent for the basstardization of an honorable hobby, one which many of you helped build, and I among many hope to help preserve if necessary. 
 

 I wouldn't mind if the whole world dug, as long as they all did it for the right reasons.


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## Plumbata (Mar 7, 2008)

Tigue, if this is actually real and you do this, then make us proud!

 Ace, you're the man. [][8D]


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## RedGinger (Mar 7, 2008)

Tigue, if you need to borrow some Choos for the story[]  :


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## tigue710 (Mar 7, 2008)

oh oh, the girlfriend saw them...  so... where can I buy some of those?


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## RedGinger (Mar 7, 2008)

Now you're in trouble!  Get her a pair, she'll be soo happy.  Go to Bluefly.  I'll send you some more places to go.


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## appliedlips (Mar 7, 2008)

*
 Everybody makes good points and I think people arguing for being public have just not been exposed to the negatives, personally. Doesnâ€™t anybody wonder why you donâ€™t hear from many good privy diggers from the Midwest on these forums? I probably post more than most but I am still very careful what I post. I am a ROOKIE compared to a lot of diggers in this part of the country. Itâ€™s not that the digging is not good here, guys have just paid the price. Cities like St. Louis have probably produced as many good bottles as anywhere with maybe the exception of Philly & Brooklyn. Hell, there are pontilled sodas from there that sell for only $20, I would say a few bottles have been dug. Donâ€™t see many stories in the old bottle mags or newspaper articles though. This is for good reason, and it isnâ€™t greed. Help me out guys, I know there are some members that donâ€™t post from this part of the country, feel free to chime in.
    Nothing personal, but I always find that when these discussions come up it is always guys who donâ€™t dig privies that have the opinion that they are an endless resource. Do you Western diggers have an easy time finding undug pre 1870 pits? If you did you could fill the piggy bank digging them, nowadays. How hard would it be for a newcomer who had no knowledge of the area to find pits. In St. Louis and other Illinois river cites, old holes are almost impossible to find undug or are covered with concrete and asphalt. I can still find a good number of spots in Ohio but most of the prime spots are long gone.. Iâ€™ll invite any out of towner to come try there luck in Zanesville, I hear Wheeling is no picnic, either. Zane & Craig, I bet Steubenville is full of undug spots, right? Towns that are dug this hard where done so for a reason, not by accident. Just like anything else 90% of the good bottles are found by 10% of the diggers. On top of that 90% of the bottles come out of 10% of the privies. These prives are sometimes found in groups in certain areas of certain cities. Any veterans, disagree? Those guys digging a lot of bottles have been around for a long time and have paid their dues. I will try to give them that respect. If we make it hard for them to access good sites our supply will dry up. There are good dumps waiting to be found but most of us are left digging the ones the guys in the 60â€™s,70â€™s & 80â€™s didnâ€™t bother with. Not that they were undiscovered.
      What most collectors donâ€™t understand is MOST small town privies are worthless, almost all country privies are a waste of time, and even some large cities are almost impossible to dig productive privies in. I am sure most of the large east coast cities have endless opportunities for digging because this is where most of the talk comes from. I love hearing the stories like we all do and try to share some of my own because that and a â€œlittleâ€ knowledge is all I have to give. I am always happy to take a new digger out and show him the little bit I know but I am not giving it away to the world. Most of the good diggers I know and have talked to recently here in the Midwest, are certain privy digging will be a thing of the past, in the near future,here. Maybe, I am wrong and I hope that I am. If I am not, it sure is going to suck for our kids. We need good digging spots and opportunities to bring people that donâ€™t have â€œmoneyâ€ into the hobby. With these forums and eBay, it is easier than ever to find information on digging or collecting. The mass media offers no benefit to the hobby in my opinion. Itâ€™s not the end of the world but why not play it cool and enjoy what we have? Good luck digging and shoe collecting.*


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## tigue710 (Mar 7, 2008)

Doug I agree with you, but as Lobey said the show is in the works from the sounds of it...  I dont care if it is me, although I would like to do it, but I want to know its someone who wont make things anyworse...  

 Im having a lot doubt I even want to do it, not my thing actually...  but the idea of being paid to make a living at what I love?  Thats hard to shake...  not that I've been selected or anything either, but I am talking with them...


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## appliedlips (Mar 7, 2008)

I am not sure if this is the same guy but an internet blogger from Canada who was a member here asked a personal friend about doing a show.In his proposition he was quoted saying "Privy Digging,it's all about the money".If this is the same dude,go pimp something else.To get the show off of the ground it will take a knowledgeable person,many of which won't give them the time of day.It will not be interesting to the general public without the mention of treasure,and riches.I don't see how it can be done responsibly,that's all.If I did I would do it myself.We know the realities of the work put into finding good bottles,and still dream big.It was even worse when we were new.

   The fact is the digging won't get done without access to sites.People hear this stuff and figure "they will dig it for themselves" one day and won't get around to it.I hear that alot,several mentioning the cash and treasure show.Higher fences and wider eyes on construction sites( where a good percentage of quality finds come from).If it gets banned at some point the collecting hobby will suffer dramatically.Your right Lobey it is about enjoying what we do,and I am still like a kid in candy store when scratching through a layer,no matter the age.I don't sweat the digging getting done,I won't run out in my life time,and I welcome new,responsible diggers.What I hate is digging opportunities lost for no good reason other than someone wanting to be important.


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## tigue710 (Mar 7, 2008)

top of the world ma!


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## Jim (Mar 7, 2008)

TV shows and other types of exposure can be good or bad for our hobby. It all depends on how the production is presented to the public. I would be delighted to do a show about privy digging under certain conditions. First and foremost, it would have to deal with the fact that most bottle diggers pursue the hobby out of respect for history and a liking for what we do, NOT for profit.

 I would have no part of any production that suggests to the public that "digging to sell" is what I'm about. I want no connection with those who would throw away broken historical objects that could be saved, reconstructed and documented simply because the antique mall or the eBay market don't want them. There is just more to it than that. No, I am not a professional archaeologist. Some of them get way out of line with their trashing of privy diggers in general, but they do have some valid points when it comes to people who dig for the wrong reasons. There is nothing wrong with selling or trading bottles that you dig, but it should not be anyone's primary motive. Those who dig for no other reason but to make a profit don't really care about history. They don't keep any documentation, and could not care less.

 If a show about privy digging could focus more on a combination of the bottle hobby AND the preservation of history, and a lot less on "cash, treasure, profit, etc.", I would be happy to participate. Most people know nothing about our hobby. If we can present it to them in a way that earns us respect instead of scorn,  public exposure can be a good thing. ~Jim


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## Jim (Mar 7, 2008)

Lobey, that is sad, but unfortunately true. I probably should not have said "most". I still believe that there are a lot of us who dig for what are (in my opinion) good reasons. ~Jim


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## jesster64 (Mar 7, 2008)

I'm new to this hobby but I think a tv show will never happen. We've all probably seen Treasure hunters on TV. Some episodes are really fascinating. For instance the show about the guy who collects meteors out in the midwest farmlands  for thousands of dollars. It made me want to jump up and take a meteor hunting trip. Unless you know what you're doing and know where to look, you'd just be wasting your time. Or the episode about herkimer diamonds. I went diamond digging last summer with the family. One day of pounding stones, i came away with a crushed thumbnail and a few small "diamonds". The fist sized nugget the host finds while filming just doesn't happen that often as is not as easy as it appears.
 Bottle digging takes time and effort, both of which will turn 99 percent of people off today. Go to a dump and dig up bottles, sounds easy enough, untill you try it. one day of aching muscles and no bottles and rookies will give up soon enough. 
 On the other hand, if more people become interested, maybe there will be a market for ketchup botles and milk of magnesias. Sitting in front of a tv and watching a show is a lot different than actually going out and doing something.


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## tigue710 (Mar 7, 2008)

nice lobes!  gotta love Cagney!

 Well said Jim, thats what I've been trying to say...  If the show is all about "whats it worth"  I wouldnt have anything to do with it, if I got the chance too...


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## baltbottles (Mar 8, 2008)

> Towns that are dug this hard where done so for a reason, not by accident. Just like anything else 90% of the good bottles are found by 10% of the diggers. On top of that 90% of the bottles come out of 10% of the privies. These prives are sometimes found in groups in certain areas of certain cities. Any veterans, disagree? Those guys digging a lot of bottles have been around for a long time and have paid their dues.


 
 Doug I fully agree. I do the math like this dig 1000 privies 900 of them were a waste of my time 100 were worth digging and then most of my best finds came out of about 40 of thoes pits.

 As for endless digging opportunities here in the east coast. I say come to Baltimore and try to find an undug pontil age pit. Its such a nice feeling when you finish up a whole row of houses or even an entire block. Then if your lucky to find an undug pit dig it and find your token 12 sided aqua puff in the bottom and 5 buckets of pottery to glue back together. If you want to dig post 1870s pits here have fun theres plenty of them to go around sadly they pretty much all suck. Most of the pontil age section of Wilmington is under parking lots and high rise buildings. Philadelphia has a lot of very deep and very empty privies. Granted some can be really good but the best parts of town to dig in are also the most heavily dug or hardest to get to dig in. And from my exposure to digging in Brooklyn and NY city if you don't live there and have a lot of time to gain peoples trust theres no way your getting permission to dig there.

 Chris


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## bearswede (Mar 8, 2008)

> I'd wear those...


 
 I'm pretty sure you DID wear those last time we went bar-hopping... ROR...


 R


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## JGUIS (Mar 8, 2008)

Good luck, whatever you decide.


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## tigue710 (Mar 8, 2008)

well the show is going to air next year, they want to start me digging privies in the city.  I think I'll just trash some empty lots, leave the holes open and then take the film crew to the auction house... this is going to rock!  Everyone tell me what town you live in so I make sure we dig an old lady bungy trap in your back yard! ya!


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## downeastdigger (Mar 8, 2008)

Hi guys - Hey Doug, thanks for turning down the *bold *on after your first entry.  I was getting vertigo trying to read it 

 I think that the only thing the TV guys are trying to hook in to is the treasure hunting " hit the mother load" aspect of the hobby. It's human nature to be drawn to that, it's not evil.
 I get disappointed in guys who get preachy about how they're not in it for the money, and then when the rake hits the dirt, they get "gold fever" and say and do things they didn't think they would, once pontils start showing up, and dollar signs start being discussed.  I'm not referring to anyone specific here, but I've seen it from time to time, and it sucks.

 I'm not too worried about the TV spots.  I think "normal" people, unlike us   would try dump or especially privy digging, and give up quickly.  Getting permissions can be lonely work, you have to be really persistant, and it can take up a lot of time. Digging in dumps is great, but I've seen a lot of folks get bottle fever for a month, and then it fades.  People like myself will dig bottles til my body wont let me because I've done it and loved it for so many years it is part of who I am.
 I've also had a handful of great digs over the years that keep the obsessive part of it alive as well.
 But there have been tv spots in the past, people get in to it for a while, but you have to really really stick with it to have success.


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## downeastdigger (Mar 8, 2008)

By the way, did the TV guys settle on filming someone, I dont' see any more posts from them.  Maybe they decided we're too frightening of a group to trust being alone with , armed with shovels and probes !


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## appliedlips (Mar 8, 2008)

Yeah,your right Bram that bold makes for some tough reading.

      I should clarify my statements,too.I apoligize if I offended you Tique.This is my opinion and I have voiced it before and I don't mean to direct it towards Tique or anyone else.I have respect for you and what you do.It goes without saying the guys who don't post here won't be defending this position.Sometimes I lay it on a little thick.Money is a part of this hobby and we will never change that.It is a hard issue to discuss fairly in the media,even amongst ourselver here sometimes.Human nature is the problem,to get people to watch they must make it flashy.If no one could tell I am a loudmouth and very passionate about this hobby.Part of me wants to tell everyone,everything but have seen negatives.Again,I am not worried about new diggers or competition.Without them I will have no one to sell my extras to and trade with in the future.I welcome a flood of good bottles into our collections.What I worry about is the "if you want it,it must be worth alot"  mentality of some people.I have 3 instances directly related to the last show,where money took over the conversation.1 we got ran off by a spouse "who knew we were in it for the profit" and wasn't haven't it.They mentioned the cash & treasure show.I had 2 others, in which the owners hearing about the big money bottles in the show,made it too difficult to reach an amicable agreement.In addition it is the guys trying to get rich quick that are less likely to respect property and practice good ethics.I just don't want to risk what we all love,that's it.

 Just trying to get the other story out there,Doug


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## JGUIS (Mar 8, 2008)

> ORIGINAL: lobeycat
> 
> waaaaa waaaaaa waaaaaa no more holes to dig. what ever will i do, waaaaaa? Waaaaaaaa granny fell in a hole and broke her hip, waaaaaaaa. I'll get you granny and your little dog to, waaaaaa.
> 
> Top of the world maaaaaaa.............waaaaaaa





> ORIGINAL: tigue710
> 
> well the show is going to air next year, they want to start me digging privies in the city.  I think I'll just trash some empty lots, leave the holes open and then take the film crew to the auction house... this is going to rock!  Everyone tell me what town you live in so I make sure we dig an old lady bungy trap in your back yard! ya!


 Real mature attitudes, I'm glad we have such devoted collectors to represent us on a global scale.


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## appliedlips (Mar 8, 2008)

Play nice now Josh.We all have opinions,we can express them without attacking each other.


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## tigue710 (Mar 8, 2008)

> ORIGINAL:  JGUIS
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Call me stupid, I'll give ya what you expect...


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## downeastdigger (Mar 9, 2008)

I did a radio interview that aired on NPR a while back.  It was done by a couple of cutey college girls, who seemed fascinated, and were hanging on my every word. At least thats what my big ego was telling me    We went through the woods, with them carrying a camera and microphone boom, through the bushes and streams, I dragged them for miles.  I was really careful about what I said in terms of getting permissions to dig in the woods ( I was vague ), and about the monetary value of bottles ( I was more vague ).  I concentrated on the amazing parts of bottle digging that don't involve money,  and there was plenty for me to talk about there.  But of course the interviewer kept trying to sneak in a question or two of the monetary value questions, not bad, just a couple.  She was actually very good about it.
 All that being said,  if I dig a historical flask, and it has no monetary value, I would think it was cool, but it wouldn't make my heart pound the way it would if I dug one knowing that it was worth $800 to someone.  We put dollar values on things, thats how we relate it's value to other people.  What is cool, is that in this hobby, the "value" is driven up by how rare the item is,  the historical context ( can we trace what log cabin size glass house it was blown at,  can we trace the name and history and building that the proprietor sold the item out of, and on and on).
 Man, won't it be good when we can get back out and dig, instead of just talking about digging?
  !  You poor guys in Ohio and Buffalo got DUMPED on again, it looks like.  Out here we got a ton of rain, which gave us some bare patches, but still a foot of snow


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## Oldtimer (Mar 9, 2008)

I dreamed I was digging bottles again last night...


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## dollarbill (Mar 9, 2008)

Hey all 
               Well first I would have to say if a show is to be done. I hope a responsable digger gets the job. Like several have said if it were to concentrat on the money aspect it will cause a small frenzey of get rich quick digger which in turn will cause a bad name for the guy who does it right .ie safty ,fill in hole and go back to make sure if it sunk an fill it in agian.  Nice lawn clean up. You get the ideal. Not to mention evey one will think theres untold riches in there back yard . Maybe  but most likely not . But that will lead to less permissions you can bet on that.. As for new diggers do like me teach your children .Children love digging in the dirt .ANY way if you'll check my post out in collectors chat .You'll find that theres a lot more fast cash in trash picken .No digging envolved . Hey theres a story FAST CASH IN TRASH . Just my dollars worth inflastion ya know. 
                                             Heres hopen you all hit the treasure of a life time .I know I did 
                                                just the fun of it and some great friend's   
                                                              bill


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## MINNESOTA DIGGER (Mar 9, 2008)

great idea  . but  stay away  nothing good can come out of this . Except higher prices  more competition  and  more people thinking that  us DIGGERS  are  GETTING RICH . it is not the case  i would not do it , .  my friends have been in articules  and some got grief from the state on bottles  dug in s H @@ HOL@S    what  a joke .


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## madman (Mar 9, 2008)

isnt it amazing how people get worked up about old garbage, wow ! hey everybody lets go dig up an old dump,privy, cistern, yea right mike


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## craigc90 (Mar 9, 2008)

Well here is my view of things and like a-holes everyone has one. I am not worried about a bunch of new diggers or competition or high prices.I am worried about being able to dig in the future. All the publicity leads to people that have nothing to do making new laws because we like digging up poop.We will need permits from the health department and have a state certified archeologist just to dig a half bottle filled hole on private property. I can not see how any good can come of this. I am sure it will happen and we cant stop it but dont be the one a few years from now talking about the good ol days and how we got robbed of our digging rights.  If this is what you feel you need to do then hey its a free country right. Not for long.


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## Plumbata (Mar 10, 2008)

> ORIGINAL: lobeycat
> Waaaa some busboy is digging a hole that I dreamed about last week, waaaaaaaa


 
  Hahaha, funny and poignant, certainly, but the issue is deeper than that. If a show presented bottles in a way that would captivate the masses, then the message would surely be distorted, and this would likely happen:

  Some people would trespass, dig holes in town without filling them, or tear up protected land in search of "treasure". It happens all the time now, and the authorities are starting to get more uptight as a result. If damages caused by dishonorable diggers get statewide or national attention ever, and the media portrays these diggers as grave robbers who leave shard filled booby traps for kids to fall into(which they would), then the hobby will not get any easier, to say the least. We don't need to allow precedents to be set that serve to mediocritize this hobby.

  The competition would increase, and people searching for good places to dig would resort to leeching off of others, or just the downright rape of spots that others paid the full dues to find. This would make the good people less trusting, and the bad people would blend in with the crowd. This forum seems to be following that trend. Good diggers would keep more to themselves rather than risk sharing the joys of digging with someone who might totally screw them over. It is lame enough presently, and something like this would make it rather likely that someone dishonest in your area will come to the hobby and try to start exploiting you somehow. Anyone who has EVER in some subversive manner dug someone else's spot because they weren't skilled enough to find their own should not be considered a true digger. It is petty, stupid, and does not make the hobby more enjoyable as a whole. Way to go, losers. For the bulk of the diggers here though, such a shift *would* suck much of the joy and life out of digging.

  And granted, many people would give up, but what about those who found some good stuff in their first hole? They would learn about bottles only as a requisite to getting the most profit, and they would be the ones who ransack areas, leave important shards, and make other diggers look bad.

  As mentioned by others earlier, permissions would be denied more readily because of the schema these people would have of diggers. They would think that it's largely about the money, and they would feel insulted that you want to take advantage of them by taking their bottles without giving them satisfactory compensation. If, however, they knew what a pain it is to dig a 10 foot hole, and knew that the historical implications of some potential finds represent the true value and reason ya want to dig in their yard, then things would be better for those who dig privys. The owners might feel like they are a part of preserving history rather than just a free source of valuables to be exploited by diggers. All this depends upon how it is represented.

  A benefit from the show would be increased demand for rare bottles you may own, and increased customers of all your duplicates and non-focus crap. The same would likely happen if the hobby was represented more tastefully though, and better people would start collecting, not people who just see the dollaz.

  See, if you have someone who goes to church and believes in God because he feels it is the right thing, then that person, just like a digger who digs for a good reason, is a far better asset to the church than someone who attends because of the promise of a candybar or beer afterwards, which is analogous to the digger who digs solely for the money and not for the enjoyment of the process or the history. It would be cool if everyone dug, but not if they didn't try to appreciate the web of implications surrounding their finds. If a class of digger emerges that is only about the profits, then it will be a sad development, as they have no business in a hobby like this. They are exploiting the hard work of those in the 50s-70s who laid the groundwork and did the research which instilled in these things a history-rich life for us to appreciate. Profiteers would never waste their time trying to preserve history.

  Neither I nor anyone else carries the selfish wish to have all the spots for ourselves; we are more worried about the condition of this hobby and its digger society. If the gov starts cracking down more, the diggers increase, the permissions decrease, and the dumps keep getting built over, then competition will alter the way newer diggers go about interacting with fellow hobbyists, in a decidedly negative way. Sooner or later the effective demise of the digging hobby will occur, but I can tell you that going the route you propose, lobey, will guarantee that it is sooner. I hear ya on not worrying about what might have been when you can enjoy what you have in the present, but what if you need to sense the past possibilities in order to enjoy the present manifestation? What if you can't enjoy the present when you can sense that what will follow it in the future may be degenerate and cheapened? I say don't fool yourself with the idea that the present is the only worthwhile reality. Life is too short to spend entirely within that narrow frame of mind. It took a broad and deep foundation of interactions at all levels in the past to make the present look the way it does to our senses, which is barely the tip of the tip of the iceberg of reality. Likewise, the present is the foundation for the future, and it should be our job to make sure that we build it strong and deep, and not disregard all of this so we can comfortably place our minds within, and experience the egocentric world of the present. What does our temporary happiness matter if our grandchildren can never know what it was like, nor what it meant to us and why it was important? 

  Whatever floats your boat, though. It is just a stupid TV show and in all likelihood it won't get much coverage and won't be replayed too often. People will forget about it or think they don't have what it takes, and probably not much will happen. The problem will occur when some producer makes a gripping show about bottle profits and gets it aired all over the US, but even then I'd just be better off digging than wasting everyone's time complaining about it on the internet. The world is going to hell and nothing I can do will slow down its downward spiral, so we might as well enjoy the ride, eh?


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## capsoda (Mar 10, 2008)

Smacks of BIG BROTHER or a communist plot or an alien invasion!!!!! There will be pink elephants running everywhere....oh...I mean aliens.....the pink elephants moved next door.[]

 Make us look like heros Tigue.


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## Plumbata (Mar 10, 2008)

Pink aliens, or just the normal ole' green ones?


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## cordilleran (Mar 10, 2008)

Publicity isn't going to doom digging. Fact is, so-called progressive thinking is. Bottom line: bureaucrats who haven't given the slightest consideration to hobby-minded folks retrieving artifacts will find the time to include prohibitive measures in their next legislative push. Been going on for years. The caveat here is to select candidates for political office who have your best interests in mind. Slim pickings inasmuch as the requisites to be a political aspirant nowadays is predicated upon potential candidates who have alienenated themselves from the mainstream, i.e. largely insulated from reality from living a pristine (monied and priveleged life). No longer is intellect or a higher calling (public service) important for public servitude. Political life has grown into a career track for self-enrichment. I sincerely doubt that a candidate with home-spun, self-actuated ambition such as Abraham Lincoln would stand a chance competing against the ideological appearance-driven wankers running for the highest political spot on the ticket today. Theodore Roosevelt would not meet our expectations as he was a short man. Appearance, rather than substance reigns supreme, leaving behind a hollow impression once the light and passage of time reveals the lack of moral fiber.

 How many of you are willing to sacrifice three or four years of your life to represent your constituency? The only way we can expect to regain our voice -- and democractic freedom -- is to speak as a unified organ. Oust the plutocrats in government and return the right of self-determination to the people who serve as the lifeblood and birthright of this great republican nation. Not hollow words but sincere conviction from this voice in the wilderness.


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## GuntherHess (Mar 10, 2008)

Nothing like digging a few rare bottles and having bystanders comment "what you want those dirty bottles for?"[]

 Just cleaning up the earth... my way... a few dirty bottles at a time[]


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## Leisalu (Mar 10, 2008)

Those of you out there who'd like to repress digging bottles to the public and keep it in a bag had better think twice about your motives. Anyone can do a Google search and see dozens of sites on bottles and digging, it's not something new. I don't know about the rest of the country but here on the West Coast bottle collectors and diggers are  a dyeing breed. When I got into it in the early 70s most all the diggers and collectors were young guys and there were many, many active participants. Shows back then were huge and bottle collecting was  the second largest hobby in the U.S.  Look around now days at a bottle show in the West and 90% of everyone selling and attending are all over fifty with hardly any young people to be seen. Today there's  less than half the number of people into it as there were then. 
   We're all entitled to our opinions but the  "what if"  attitude some of you share in regard to letting the public know about our hobby through the media is only detrimental. The hobby needs new blood to keep it alive and the more people that are in it then all the better. Having more folks  in the hobby makes the digging side of it more legitimate and harder to squash so long as it's done in a positive fashion.  In today's world of laziness, video games and drugs to distract our  youth and possible ruin lives, introducing a young person to our hobby might  just make a big difference in their  life and bring many new finds to light. [/align] 
    It's not about money for most of us and a TV show that depicts digging in a positive way without  focus on monetary value and  more on the history can only help with promoting the hobby and positive public awareness. Television shows are going to happen despite the outcries from the diggers who what to squash the digging side to the public. This show producer is going to and will find someone who will agree to do a show. We can only  hope that who ever it is, that they will do it so in a positive manner with more focus history and less on money.
  Travel Channels show "Cash & Treasures" last bottle digging show although not much more than a man digging a hole with a babe , was the highest reviewed and most watched show  they did last season. It was such a big success that they have produced a new bottle digging episode that is going to air next month.  We're hopeing  the new one will  depict bottle digging in a much more positive light among its critics than the last show did. [/align]
 I'm proud of my digging hobby and the fact that I also like sharing it with others. In the 40 years I've done so it has not only inspired others but I've received mostly nothing but positive feedback from the public.[/align] [/align]


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## Plumbata (Mar 10, 2008)

> ORIGINAL:  cordilleran
> 
> I sincerely doubt that a candidate with home-spun, self-actuated ambition such as Abraham Lincoln would stand a chance competing against the ideological appearance-driven wankers running for the highest political spot on the ticket today.


 
 []

 It seems as if you are well aware of how to look at the big picture, man. 

 If anyone, you should post on this site more often than you do. You possess a captivating writing style and an ability to express these  complexities in a refined, concise, and flowing manner. Your views are the expertly honed product of years of contemplation, and in essence I believe the exact same thing, though I yet lack the words to illuminate the truth so concretely. I want to say, though, that publicity will probably speed up the process to quite a degree, when those in office catch wind of the negative exposure given by the media to the more destructive aspects of the hobby and sense that acting on the behalf of general public safety, or to the end of sealing history underground forever (so that only proper specialists can get around to it, never), will bring them the most success in the superficial eyes of their constituency. Otherwise they wouldn't waste their time. If we can't really do anything about the shoddy state of affairs in the present US Gov't, and the money and comfort-driven society at large, then we can at least try to minimize the damage done by the media until someone worthwhile and influential takes up our flag.


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## cordilleran (Mar 10, 2008)

Thank you Stephen for your sincere compliment. Likewise, your ability to extrapolate complex ideas via the written medium is equally well-honed.
 I have to admit, however, that I spent years working for the print media in varying capacities and responsibilities. I turned my back on the newsroom after realizing that most repositories of news dissemination, i.e. media, filters what is received by the end-line consumer. I now have greater control over editorial content as a freelance writer and can likewise select coverage issues I feel will have the greatest impact upon my readership.


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## appliedlips (Mar 10, 2008)

Leisalu,

   Who wants to repress the hobby?In the past couple of years I have taken a good number of guys out and shown them how to dig privies.I take my children as well as some of their friends.I belong to a couple different clubs,even though there isn't a decent one in my area.If I am certain I will be staying in the area,I will devote time and energy into changing that.I share a good number of finds on these online communities,as well as information I have learned from others..I attend every bottle show I can make it to.I tell everybody I encounter about my passion for this hobby.I have always been concerned at the lack of young people in the hobby and agree with you on that point.
 Are saying there is all kinds of great stuff waiting to be dug out west and there isn't enough diggers?.I am sure that the fact that most of the redevelopment was already done in the old parts of the few old cities you western folks have,has something to do with the problem.Times have changed,although I do not have this experience you do but from what I hear it was much different 20-30 yrs ago..There were more opportunities to find good stuff for a guy getting started,guys could hunt construction sites without climbing fences or going to jail.Friends in the insulator hobby tell me the same thing is happening with their hobby.Less opportunites to "find" good stuff in the wild,without spending money is making it harder for new collector's to get started.I find that it would also be hard to get started in collecting Western bottles for a young person due to the crazy prices any decent bottle brings.
   The internet though,has probably been one of the leading contributers to the slump in collecting.No need to go to a club meeting,go to the library to do research, or a bottle show.It also makes it harder to find deal in antique shops,flea markets,garage sales,etc..We got ebay,and online clubs..I try to make it a point to get somebody new to attend every bottle show I do.
   I was aware of the success of the last show,the public is captivated by what we do.I don't dispute that.A well made show would not quickly disappear.Is this next show going to feature an auctioneer talking about $50,000 bottles and $300 hutches,he knows nothing about?That is what the public wants and personally I do not doubt the integrity or good intentions of those in this hobby,just the editorial twists that always seem to find their way into the content.It is not a "what if" everywhere,it has happened in some places.Again,we all have opinions and thats what makes this forum a learning tool.


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## GuntherHess (Mar 10, 2008)

I dont mind sharing the hobby with others, I just would rather do it one at a time rather than 1 million at a time.


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## tigue710 (Mar 10, 2008)

if anything this topic sure has opened up a great dialogue!  

 I've decided to stay out of it now but I was thinking along the lines that Lisalou has pointed out, is it worry over loosing the ability to dig or just simple greed that has people worried?   (Excluding you Doug)


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## baltbottles (Mar 10, 2008)

Young blood in the hobby. I will say that at this years baltimore show I saw quite a few younger collectors and diggers between 20-30 years of age. and the number of new faces in general was up quite a bit. I've also noticed a lot of ex diggers from the 70s and 80s having raised familys are not getting back into the hoby in a big way. I agree with Doug on introducing new collectors to privy digging. I've had the pleaseure of taking 4 new collectors and previous dump diggers out and showing them the ropes of privy digging over the past couple years. I find that now I always have a willing digging partner and I have sparked their historical interest in everything we find even all the broken stuff is important to them. This is the way to approch thing it's nice when money isn't the deciding factor on quality of finds. We judge the finds more on age and historical interest. Spend a lot of our time researching and learning about our finds. And if we find something worth a lot of money then we try to place it in the hands of the one of us with the most interest in that type of collectable. Weather it be a flask or a pontiled Baltimore soda or a nice pontiled Wilmington or Philly bottle. There is someone in our group that will really enjoy it. I've dug with greedy people that were all about money and when we found something good it quite often got sold. I came to the conclusion along time ago that I'm not out digging for money I'm just looking to find things I have an interest in. Everyting else I find is just cake and I'll just as soon give it to a friend of mine then sell it. And I do give away a lot of nicer bottles to my friends.

 Chris


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## tigue710 (Mar 10, 2008)

its hard to hold on to some of the good ones when the girl friend catches wind they are worth a few hundred bucks though!  I dont make to much money so if I ever dig anything worth more then a weeks wage I'd sell it, with a few exceptions like a New London flask or so...

 I've been seeing a rising interest in genuine collectors myself.  But not so many young collectors, although I hear the average age for new collectors is 30 or so, I only see a hand full of kids getting into digging...


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## madman (Mar 10, 2008)

hey tigue, im just worried about greed, all the dumps ive encountered in the south were dug in the 70s, most of them are 30 40s dumps, they just dug random holes , never dug deep, looking for the money bottles, but you no what, they never found them, i did and other diggers 40 years later,  alot of good stuff in there,ive never sold a bottle, my worry is that ignorant diggers would ruin it for others mike


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## MINNESOTA DIGGER (Mar 10, 2008)

I am all for new diggers .  but the  politics of this show and its  effects on laws  could become repressive  to our hobby  WE DONT NEED MORE LAWS  for a hobby that does not hurt any thing   . as far as out house pits go if you get permission from property owner  the state  should    not be involved


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## Jim (Mar 11, 2008)

> it's nice when money isn't the deciding factor on quality of finds. We judge the finds more on age and historical interest.


 
 My sentiments exactly, Chris. I wish more people would realize that there are diggers like us who value history over a quick buck. I have a 7 to 3 weekday job to pay the bills. Some of us dig because we love history, not to sell. ~Jim


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## JGUIS (Mar 11, 2008)

> ORIGINAL: tigue710
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 I've never called you anything, much less expected something.  Good luck in whatever you decide, make us proud.


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## jesster64 (Mar 11, 2008)

Hobbies come and hobbies go.I've experienced it with baseball card collecting, watching cards go from 25 cents a pack to 7 dollars a pack. Insert cards that make it too expensive to complete a full set. Seeing kids today opening packs and throwing common cards in the garbage. I've experienced it with autograph collecting where athletes and celebs just yell e-bay at you when you ask for an autograph today. Or you go to a show and they charge an arm and a leg for a signature. I've seen beer can collecting explode and then become almost extinct. My father has a large stamp collection dating back to his grandfather. Unless you own the upside down plane, stamp collecting is almost a forgotten art. Metal detecting used to be free and fun, now everyones got liability fears and its hard to get permission to walk on property without breaking a dozen trespassing laws.. 
 Everybody wants a quick buck. Anique roadshow has you believing your attic holds thousands in treasures. Flip this house makes you believe you can buy any property, have someone fix it up, and sell it for thousands. Hidden treasures has you believing you can dig up meteors just about anywhere and sell them for thousands. Beanie babies were all the rage for a few years.
 I believe bottle digging is safe. It requires effort and todays kids would rather be on the playstation playing a bottle digging computer game. If for some reason bottle digging catches fire for a short period of time, the people making real money will be those not digging, but selling books on how to dig, selling bottle brushes and tumblers. During the california gold rush, it wasn't the diggers getting rich, but those supplying the digging equipment.
 I've only been at it for 6 months, but I'm hooked for life. i can go to a show and buy pretty much any bottle i want, but there's nothing like going out and digging one up yourself. Bottle digging is a great hobby. It would be a lousy business though. just my 2 cents. And I do bring my daughter with me when I go.


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## Leisalu (Mar 11, 2008)

> ORIGINAL: appliedlips
> 
> I was aware of the success of the last show,the public is captivated by what we do.I don't dispute that.A well made show would not quickly disappear.Is this next show going to feature an auctioneer talking about $50,000 bottles and $300 hutches,he knows nothing about?That is what the public wants and personally I do not doubt the integrity or good intentions of those in this hobby,just the editorial twists that always seem to find their way into the content.It is not a "what if" everywhere,it has happened in some places.Again,we all have opinions and thats what makes this forum a learning tool.


 

 As much as I hate to, lets face it, that's what any treasure hunting TV show is all about, someone digging up buried treasure that's worth money. Man's fascination with finding buried treasure is nothing new. I don't  like that image as a bottle digger and it's unfortunate we're often viewed  like that.    

 I agree with you that the last show was almost laughable in the way they evaluated  their finds.  That was not what diggers needed in terms of talking about bottles being worth tens of thousands of dollars and way over inflated prices on just a bunch of just regular dug junk. Good luck on your next permission dig when the homeowner sees junkers come out that he now thinks are worth a fortune thanks to that show. You won't be seeing any $300 hutches  or talk about $50,000 bottles this time. I think it will definitely be a reality check as far as that one goes.

 The public is clueless as to the dues we pay before hitting a good hole with some 
 decent payers. All they usually see are instant  finds in about 15 television  minutes that are always worth more than the effort that went into getting them. That's a fantasy as we all know but is what the public wants to see because those times we're paying our dues wouldn't make for very good TV.


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## baltbottles (Mar 11, 2008)

People think this hobby is going to make them rich they are crazy. How many members does this forum have? Last look says 7265 members. Of all those members how many $5000+ dollar things have been dug since the forum was started. A little over 6 years ago. I can remember about 4 things in that price range found So lets say each member of this forum spends an average of 1 hour a month out actually digging. So thatâ€™s 7265 members times 1 hour a month times 12 months times 6 years So thatâ€™s 523,080 man hours of digging to find 4 exceptional items worth a total of about $84,000 divided by 523,080 hours equals 16 cents an hour congratulations we are all pretty stupid lol Now granted I'm sure there were other exceptional finds made during this time that were not posted on the forum but there are also many diggers that are not forum members. I think by time we take into account just the fuel spent alone driving to digging sites and we are all in the red anyway.

 Chris


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## cdnbottleguy (Mar 11, 2008)

gawd , do ya need a permit to turn the T.V off


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## TreasureTVProducer (Mar 12, 2008)

Wow.      I have read each post in this thread. Remember, as promised, I will respond to everyone that emailed personal information to the gmail address I provided.     First let me express my sincere admiration at the level of online community evidenced here on Antique-Bottles. Net and not just in this thread, but all over the domain. My thanks to the administrators and moderators that allowed the free and open flow of information.

 you all have helped me, I feel obliged to answer some of your questions, as best I can...
       RE: Candidates?  We are very impressed with some individuals that have come forward. As I have not yet spoken to these people, I cannot elaborate at this time, and will not likely ever write more on the subject.      RE: Our identity?  Another subject off limits is â€˜our businessâ€™.     RE: TV Show Concept?  I love all your ideas and stories and I share your concerns. I do. But honestly despite my unfortunate choice of the moniker 'TreasureTVProducer' our premise has almost nothing to do with treasure hunting. 

 Without divulging ANY cluesâ€¦both the â€˜metal detectorâ€™ and the 'privyrod' in our concept are two of several dozen tools, like a magnifying glass or an infrared camera... The show invents new ways to tell history stories from the ground up. We seek an expert â€˜bottle diggerâ€™ for his (or her) passion which in my experience is something money canâ€™t buy, and actors canâ€™t fake.
 Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and ideas here in this discussion - your emotion is genuine.


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## RedGinger (Mar 12, 2008)

> ORIGINAL: TreasureTVProducer
> 
> your emotion is genuine.


 
 Duh.  I'm not sure if you're for real, but you sure got people talking.  Let us know when the show airs so we can find out what in the world you're talking about[]


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## Leisalu (Mar 12, 2008)

I'd be real careful about giving up any information to someone who doesn't want to reveal their identity. A legitimate company would not hide their name in secrecy and be so vague like this guy is doing. A true professional TV production company would not solicit on forums for something like this either.


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## cordilleran (Mar 12, 2008)

I agree with you, Red Ginger and Leisalu (and the rest of you naysayers). As a former news-mutt this guy (or gal) doesn't come across as a representative of the media. I am by birthright and profession skeptical anyway. The post is vague, lacking the succinctness I would expect from a fellow journalist. Rather, this person's dialogue seems tainted with gratuitous dollops of succinic acid, a compound frequently found in pharmaceuticals and perfumes. Moreover, his or her syntax and grammar lacks the Freudian "anal retentiveness" characteristic of a career scribe whose very livelihood is predicated on axiomatically "crossing the T's and dotting the I's" . Granted, I spent a fair amount of time teaching broadcast journalists how to write simple declarative sentences in J-school. Perhaps this author claims a similar alma mater, a school of thought erected on appearance rather than substance. Nevertheless, for the sake of credibility, a representative of mass communication owes it to this forum to present his or her press pass before proceeding with their elusive, sugar-coated entertainments.  Asi es la vida.


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## Bottleman (Mar 12, 2008)

Sounds like a scam to me. I am also a member of a trapping forum and the same exact thing happened a few months ago. A new guy came onto our site saying he was making a video production on trapping and wanted to tape anyone who was interested. The same thing happened here where people first got into a big discussion why public publicity would help and hurt the hobby. Then we finally figured out it was a big scam that someone was pulling from overseas. I WOULD NOT give any personal information to this person! This guy does not want to give up his company name because it does not exist and he doesnâ€™t want us doing a search and finding this out. I sent him an email six days asking him what state the production was out of and no reply yet. Check out this link: 

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/231/RipOff0231851.htm


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## idig (Mar 12, 2008)

what a joke! yada yada yada! blah blah blah!


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## diggerdaveb (Mar 13, 2008)

Well said Doug....I agree totally with you my friend. I am not nearly so articulate as others, but in my 35 yrs of digging experience, I have seen a lot of good and bad things happen to our wonderful hobby. It is encouraging to see young collectors getting into bottle collecting and digging, so hopefully some of us more experienced diggers should always be willing to share information and help teach others who are sincerely interested in helping preserve our buried history. I dont mind taking interested diggers along with me on my digs and showing them the ropes, but unfortunately I've been "burned" a lot by guys not filling in their holes properly or stealing my permissions, etc. There's just too much greed that has ruined many bottle collectors and diggers over the years. We all like to dig a good bottle, but if that's all we think about is the dollar value of a bottle, then we are falling into the same trap of greed that has robbed the joy of collecting from so many.  
        As far as publicity for our hobby goes....there's nothing wrong with bottle collectors wanting to share some our wisdom and what we've learned with others, but we have to be very careful to avoid getting "burned" by TV shows or media who usually are not going to present what we do in a favorable light to the public. As for me personally, I prefer to keep a low profile, so that I can keep doing what I have enjoyed doing since I was a little boy...and hope to be able to keep digging for many more years. My dad taught me to "never aggravate a nest of hornets needlessly". So many of our freedoms are being taken away already.....let's be careful or we may lose even more! (....just my 2 cents worth.....Digger Dave Beeler St.Louis,MO


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## ktbi (Mar 13, 2008)

How about a wrap-up:
 [ul][*]Bottle values are important, and all of us discuss and display our bottles relative to value in some fashion.
 [*]History is equally, if not more so, important and the historical context of our finds is actaully what keeps a majority of us in the hobby for so long. I love holding a bottle previously peddled by a snake-oil dealer off the back of some wagon. I don't think what I do is terribly inconsistent with most others on this forum.  I have a small library of books and articles on bottles and must have 100 web pages bookmarked to help me identify manufactuers, history, and yes - values of my collection.  I also have a personal database to record info for each bottle. I should stay away from the stock markey is this is my idea of making money.  I'm a bit behind....
 [*]A very small percentage of people are 'in it solely for the money'.  Some people do make a living off of bottles, but they (mostly) aren't diggers or even collectors, and damn few if any actually get what I'd call wealthy off bottles alone. To be honest, I'm glad those few are around as it gives me the opportunity to find a few bottles I never will be able to dig myself. There is a needed and welcome place for them in the hobby.
 [*]Selling a rare and expensive bottle you personally dug for a healthy profit is a good thing.  Gives others a chance to own something unique and helps defray the considerable time and expense the original digger invested to get to it. There is an awful lot of trading just on this forum.  I've participated and will continue to do so.
 [*]As many people on this forum predicted - if the show become a reality, there will be a rush of get rich quickers who jump into the hobby and then jump back out just as quickly when the actual labor is factored in.  Sell em their equipment at the high price initially and buy it back at a low price "used only once" a month or two later[/ul]
 I so thoroughly enjoy being a member of this forum/hobby and looking forward to meeting more of you in person in the future.....Ron


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## downeastdigger (Mar 14, 2008)

Amen Ron, I couldn't have said it better myself.


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## GuntherHess (Mar 14, 2008)

Excellent summary.


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## pupman (Mar 18, 2008)

That cash and treasures show was nothing but an abomination-it spoke of one thing loud and clear $$$$$,  Kev


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## bamslamu2 (Feb 12, 2011)

we are ready 4 all 2 see grandpa pit we think we have some history hear like a chinese concentration camp from the 1920's  May be some indian bairrell grounds because in the day, the farmers would haul off rocks and stuff to clear for farming. In the imedai area these were around. Are property is located next to a an old county dump, and  are grandpa worked for the county, and he sold the county property for the dump. He also hauled three hundred tons of cast iron, for fifteen dollars a ton. Also people would come from all around, and dump in the low spots to fill in to farm,  charged 2 bits a truck load. So we can go on all night


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## mtfdfire22 (Feb 12, 2011)

oh man. this is tough. if their were a show on bottle digging i wouldnt leave the house! i do believe that the market on bottles would skyrocket if more people realized what they were worth, but at the same time values would decrease if someone found say 300 fischs in the same spot. so it can be bad or good for retail but not for collecting. the details the show would go into is what will kill us. the t.v. show will say "hey, their are bottles in your backyard, heres how to find them". eventually you will have people going door to door making a true buisness out of it, but this hobby isnt for monetary gain as much as collecting. thats saying anyone will watch the show other than us.


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 13, 2011)

How about this for a summary ----------> "If you don't like it don't watch it"
   Turn the dam channel [8|]
  On and on and on and on and on Shaddddddddddddddup!
  Im clickin the channel now.[]


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 13, 2011)

Did anyone notice that this tread was from 2008? Seams to me there are other more recent ones to talk about.
 Actually, not talk about for me but feel free.


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## Wheelah23 (Feb 13, 2011)

I was suspicious that ANOTHER 6 page thread just popped up all of a sudden... The first thing I did was look at the date. I guess the response to a digging TV show hasn't changed in 3 years. Somebody must have necro-bumped it just to prove a point.


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