# Ohio Milk Bottle Question



## carling (Nov 18, 2006)

Hello All,

 Found this little half pint Cleveland milk bottle today under an attic floorboard in Cleveland.

 Anyone out there have the Ohio Bottle Book?  

 Is it listed?   and can you tell me what it says about it?

 In case my photo isn't clear, it says The Soeder's Sons Co.

 Thanks!

 Rick


----------



## DiggerBryan (Nov 18, 2006)

I wish all my milk bottles were "attic mint." Very nice! I looked up the bottle in my ohio bottle book and it's listed at $8-10.


----------



## carling (Nov 18, 2006)

Thanks for the info Bryan.  I was curious to see if it was listed.

 I really don't trust the price values assigned to that book.  I would like to know how the author determined his assigned values.  I met the author at a local bottle show, peddling his milk bottles and his book.  I showed him an embossed Cleveland milk bottle he never saw before, from a dairy he wasn't aware of and knew nothing about, and it wasn't listed in his book.  When I asked him what value he would give it, he said about $10.  Pretty low considering he is an expert on Ohio milk bottles, and that bottle is the only one known to exist, as far as I or he knows .


----------



## appliedlips (Nov 18, 2006)

Rick,

    You are right about the prices in the Ohio Bottle book.They mean absolutely NOTHING.They are old and outdated.The author of the book collected sodas,however.I have found that the Cleveland and Northern Ohio information alot more accurate than the rest of the state.While alot of good bottles are underpriced alot of commons are overpriced.Tons of milks are listed for $ 15+ that I would sell all day for half that.As far as that milk is concerned I doubt it's worth $10.It don't have a town name and comes from a large city.Most Cleveland clear druggists,milks,hutches,are fairly common and don't sell for much.I will sell hutches from Cleveland for the price in that book all day long.Still a nice find,keep looking under the boards,in the walls,etc..Take care,Doug


----------



## DiggerBryan (Nov 18, 2006)

Actually, the prices for the milks were updated in 2005 which is where I got the price for the Cleveland milk. The sodas, meds, and other stuff was updated in 1999. So I wouldn't consider them totally off or mean nothing. I do agree though that some of the prices are off by little or a lot depending on what the bottle is but for the most part they are fairly accurate. There are certain areas in Ohio that the author is unfamiliar with especially the smaller towns so I believe what he did was try to give a ball park figure of what he thought it was worth, based on his years of collecting. Like appliedlips said Cleveland is a big city and from my experience their really aren't a whole lot of milk bottle collectors for the Cleveland area. Again like appliedlips said since it doesn't have a town, state that does take away from the value.


----------



## carling (Nov 20, 2006)

Bryan and Doug,
 Thanks again for your great input.  I agree with you on the area Cleveland prices.   They are low.  I have found many Cleveland milk bottles, none that are very valuable, and I don't know of any collectors who are looking for them.  

 A neat story, ....I found a circa 1930's embossed Kysilka Dairy quart milk bottle from Cleveland, under the bricked off front porch of a house.  I put it on e-bay and sold it to some guy for about $15 who bought it for his coworker whose maiden name was Kysilka.  She ended up e-mailing me stating she and her family had always been looking, but were never able to find any old items from the Kysilka Dairy, as it was her Great Grandfathers dairy, and she was thankful for this bottle.  Well, I told her there were a lot more milk bottles preserved under that porch, and probably some more Kysilka.  She told me she would buy any more I could find and would give them to her sisters and relatives.  I went back and got her maybe 12 more Kysilka bottles (this was awhile ago, hard to remember).   I cleaned them and gave them all to her for free since they meant so much to her and her family.  A sappy story, I know......  She did pay for the postage.

 Later guys!   Rick


----------



## zanes_antiques (Nov 23, 2006)

I have studied the ohio milk bottle book and talked to the author of the prices several times. Yes one author for every price! Atfirst I thought it was the ultimate cheater book but really he just didn't know all the rare bottles. The only thing it's good for is when you find one that is listed as incomplete or not listed at all. Then you know you have a good bottle. I know of one bottle in particular from my area that you can't touch for less than $300 and it's listed for 10-15 in that book. Then there are the bottles listed in some sort of code. They will be priced $16-$22 or $18-26. I have figured out that it is a good reference book not a price guide. One good thing about the book is, that even the smallest variations are listed, on bottles that are known of. By the way I know Don Dzuro wrote the book, I believe, but he didn't price the bottles in it. Thought I'd state that for the record. Also, your bottle is an early one I think. I believe most of the ccs-w bottles are earlier from what I've seen. One other thing. The Cleveland Bottle Market sucks. I have had some very good milks from around Cleveland and haven't done very well with them.


----------



## zanes_antiques (Nov 23, 2006)

what was the bottle that you showed him?
 and he's not really up on milks from cleveland I don't believe. He's a nice guy but the book is just a guide. I try to make it a point to take atleast 2-3 new unlisted milks to every Ohio show. I do know a guy from up in that area that can give me a good idea of how scarce your bottles are. He's from around Lorain Ohio and has been collecting milks for 30 yrs or better.


----------



## DiggerBryan (Nov 23, 2006)

I agree, a guide for sure. There is a local milk from my area that goes for 350+ and it's listed for $15-20 in the 2005 edition but incomplete in 1999. Don Dzuro came  up for the prices for the 1999 edition and a guy named Parker Higby did the updated prices in 2005. I was reading through the first few pages of the 1999 book and it stated, "Prices are meant to be a guide and may vary depending on many controlling factors. Supply and demand beingthe greatest."


----------



## zanes_antiques (Nov 24, 2006)

Bryan, I was speaking with Parker Higby at the Columbus bottle show and noticed he had a very rare bottle from my area on his table. It was marked $50 and he said everything on the table was half price. Just as I pick the bottle up he informed me that another guy had it put aside and was picking out more bottles to go with it for a better price. I knew the guy who wanted it and told him if he didn't pay him for the bottle right then I was gonna give him his asking price of 50 for it. The thing is that he had that bottle listed in the book for 25-40 dollars but I know of one that sold at auction for $500+. Some of them though are coded so that if you're smart you'll pick up on it. I took the ohio book and another local book and made up my own local Ohio Valley Milk Bottle book. More listings and a better idea of values in mine. I used a five star system to determine the value range. By the way Bryan have you ever heard of "Shoop Bros. Dairy" form McComb, Ohio. I think it's from up that way where you're from.


----------



## DiggerBryan (Nov 24, 2006)

I agree they that the prices are coded. Keep an eye out for ones that read $15-20. If you look at ones that are $15-20 in the 2005 book and then look them up in the 1999 book almost all of them are incomplete. Did you end up getting the bottle or did the other guy get it? That is a good idea with the book you made. That is what they should have done for the Ohio bottle club book. All the milk bottle collectors should have gotten together and priced the bottles in their county and maybe some surrounding counties. If that makes sense. The Shoop Bros. sounds really familiar. I might have seen one on ebay at one time or at a bottle show or something. I can't remember but why do you ask?


----------



## JGUIS (Nov 26, 2006)

Is the book listed by county, city, or dairy?  I never have nailed down a number on how many dairies in Perry county actually had a marked bottle.  I do know that there were a few close by that delivered milk, but used plain bottles.  I also found out that the Wiseman Dairy in Crooksville turned in ALL of their glass bottles for recycling.  So that's a small change in thinking about those bottles, but I also found out that they tried an amber bottle for a small period.  The customers complained, so they took them off the routes and discontinued their use.  I've never seen one, and I haven't found anyone who knows about them.  That info all came from a family member of the owners.  I definately think a better approach to creating a value guide would be taking surveys from real collectors around the state to find out what's really out there, and what true values should be attributed.  Just my 2 cents.


----------



## carling (Dec 8, 2006)

You guys are full of good information.

 Zane, sorry it took so long to check this posting, but you asked what milk bottle I found that wasn't in the Ohio Milk Bottle book.  Below should be a photo.  It is a pint bottle from the Telling-Ott Dairy Co.   The bottle book lists a Telling-Belle Vernon Dairy, and an Ott Dairy in Cleveland, but not a Telling-Ott Dairy.  

 Rick


----------



## appliedlips (Dec 9, 2006)

Josh,
        Wiseman didn't turn all the bottles in as they are fairly common.I have seen quite a few of their bottles around.Usually not too high priced.Zane,I like what you said about a star system according to rarity.To try to place a value on bottles of local interest with no national appeal (MILKS) is stupid.One new collector can double the value overnight,and one collector getting out of the hobby can kill the price at auction.As far as I am concerned to say any clear embossed Ohio milk is a $300+ just isn't a fair statement.If 3 or 4 turned up tommorrow they would be $100 bottles.Not true with bitters,flask,and good old bottles.If I dig 4 Kelly's cabin bitter's in the morning I will get $1800+ out of all of them without effecting the market.Therefore a price guide is possible on these types of bottles.In other words if anyone is doing buying and selling based on the Ohio bottle book's prices,bring a bunch of nice bottles and come over to my house.Enough of my soapbox,need to get some rest before chopping at someone's icy yard in the morning.Take care,Doug


----------



## Yooper14 (Dec 11, 2006)

Wow!  What a great thread.  I'm relatively new to the Milk Bottle Market, and don't have this book.  I'm wondering, for those of you that have it, if there is a Mt Vernon College or Mt Vernon Academy Milk listed.  I have been digging a couple of them, and have had them go for over $300 on ebay.  

 I really like the idea of getting all the collectors together to determine value.  This would be a very accurate guide!

 Yooper


----------



## DiggerBryan (Dec 11, 2006)

Hey Yoop, neither of those milks are listed in the book. I believe you are the only source for those bottles.


----------



## Yooper14 (Dec 11, 2006)

I think you're right.  I've met one other person who had a Mt Vernon Academy bottle, but he was arrested recently for tresspassing and theft....


----------



## DiggerBryan (Dec 11, 2006)

haha surprise, surprise.


----------



## JGUIS (Dec 11, 2006)

I know Wiseman's are considered common, and alot of their bottles went to dumps and all over.  But all of Wiseman's in stock, and discontinued bottles were turned in for glass drives, and money, during operation and upon closing.  They never had a dump that they dumped their bottles in, so there's not a large cache of them hiding somewhere.  They also don't list variations of these bottles(and there are some), and the same goes for Clouse & Snider.  Is there a listing for an amber Wiseman Qt and Pt?  Cause they had them, I don't have one, but according to a delivery man of thirty years.  They changed their bottles to amber, and people were really upset because they couldn't see the true color of the milk.  It only lasted for a couple months and he switched back to clear.


----------



## JGUIS (Dec 12, 2006)

I found an embossed 1/2 pint milk the other day that is kinda rare.  Kesselring Dairy from Akron.  But the top lip is broken off, almost flat.  Anyone who wants it for an example can have it for shipping.  I'll try to get a pic up later.


----------



## Higsmog (Dec 14, 2006)

Read with great interest some of the comments about the Ohio Milk Bottle Book.  For one this book is the copyright property of the Ohio Bottle Club out of Akron Ohio, not mine to be peddling it as you put it.  Let me explain how this book came about....The Ohio Bottle Club-not me-decided it was time to split the Milk bottles off into there own edition and the prices needed updated (this I was told was last done over 20 years ago).  With the newer editions of The Ohio Bottle Club Bottle books only new entries were added- no pricing updates were done.  For over two years before 2005 the Ohio Bottle Club has requested someone come forward and update prices and design the cover for an all new book.  Well, as usual no one wanted to do this, just the same old griping, whining and complaining that it needed done.  Well, in 2005 while I was home on a five month recovery from heart surgery (bored out of my mind) I told Don Duzro that I would at least get the thing rolling for them.  One thing led to another and 13 hours of work later I had gone through the entire book of over 6,500 entries.  Never mind that the prices I know are not to everyone's liking, but they are a hell of a lot better than before, and we were on a deadline to get this done before the May 2005 Mansfield Bottle Show.  And by deadline we were down to days not weeks or months for the printing part to be done.  After the pricing the person that was to make the cover was unable to finish that job for medical reasons so I took a stab at that part of the project also.  Two weeks further into the project and over $180 of my own money later (that's $180 out of my own pocket that I donated to the Ohio Bottle Club) we had a finished book that sold over 300 copies at Mansfield thtat first year I am told.[/align]    Now for the life of me I cannot figure out why so many people want to complain and whine about pricing if they did nothing to help this project along the way (remembering that for two years the Ohio Bottle Club wanted someone to take this on and even advertised this in there monthly newsletter and got no response).  For one thing bottle collectors are not the only people that bought this book.  The milk bottle book was also offered to all the 88 County Libraries and to antique dealers throughout the State.  So do you really want antique dealers pricing milk bottles at $350 for us collectors?  I don't think so!  Believe me I have already seen it as a direct result of this book.  This book is an attempt to preserve some of the history of milk bottles in Ohio, so don't get so hung up on pricing.  This is a hobby not a life or death struggle.  I have seen so many of the older collectors die off and loose the complete knowledge that they had stored only in there heads about Ohio milks and for the most part it made me sick!  People like Leland Frazier and Russ Watkins-gone with all that knowledge, gone forever-they left nothing behind for the rest of us!  So to those of you who want to whine and complain without putting anything into the system-get a life!  If you think pricing is so important please send additions and corrections to the address on the inside of the milk bottle book to be included in hopefully the next addition.  I have volunteered to go anywhere in the State and help people with additions for this book out of there own collections and have gotten no response.  And the part about the Wiseman amber milk bottle being rare-they are-and over the years I have had no less than five of them myself   Furthermore the discussion about the criptic secret masonic coding in the pricing-come on!   But if say the prices backwards you can clearly hear "Paul is dead...Paul is dead...Paul is dead".[/align]Thank You[/align] [/align]Parker Higby[/align] [/align]<Reformatted and addresses removed - Admin>[/align]


----------



## Humabdos (Dec 14, 2006)

Hi Parker,


 I don't collect Ohio milk's but did end up with this half pint from Lucasville O.
 On the heel it says sealed 1-11-14 On the bottom  there's an S     7      45

 I think this dairy was owned by a distant relative of mine.
  Is this listed in the ohio milk book? Any info would be appreciated
 Glen[/align]


----------



## Humabdos (Dec 14, 2006)

[opps


----------



## zanes_antiques (Dec 14, 2006)

I'll make this short and sweet. A deadline and a shortage of manpower is no reason to print an inaccurrate book. You should be ashamed of that book, deadline or no deadline. I will say this....it's great for cheating little old ladies, novice collectors, and diggers out of their treasures!!!!


----------



## DiggerBryan (Dec 14, 2006)

Nice Zane, couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## JGUIS (Dec 14, 2006)

oof


----------



## craigc90 (Dec 14, 2006)

Higsmog
    What was your scientific method of priceing update. Let me see I have that bottle make it $20.00 to $25.00 I dont have that bottle yet lets make it $10.00 to $15.00. That will work no one will ever figure it out. []


----------



## craigc90 (Dec 14, 2006)

I know that may sound a little harsh I am sure no one wanted to take the time to tackle a job like that but a little closer to reality would be nice.


----------



## Higsmog (Dec 15, 2006)

Glen:   Yes this bottle is listed in the Ohio Milk bottle book-I have a 1/2 pt. and a qt. of this bottle in my own collection-Lucasville is one of the towns I collect and it's not a real common bottle.
 Parker


----------



## Higsmog (Dec 15, 2006)

You people are really unbelievable! Same old don't do nothing but whiney crowd-has anyone started there updated list from there part of the State to make the next edition more accurate?


----------



## Higsmog (Dec 15, 2006)

Yooper-have seen a few of the Mt Vernon college and Mt Vernon Academy 1/2 pts. on eBay about six months ago-strated out selling high but after the same person put 4-5 on eBay they really went down in price.


----------



## Higsmog (Dec 15, 2006)

Rick:  From my understanding Tellings was an ice cream company and they went into different markets in the Ohio and Pittsburg area and joined with local milk companies to sell there ice cream. I have a mint amber in my collection from Telling-Belle Vernon Dairy Columbus, Ohio. Is the bottle you have marked in any way Cleveland or have the usual C. C. intials on it?
 Parker


----------



## capsoda (Dec 15, 2006)

Hey, There are an awful lot of Ohio bottle folks on this forum. Why don't you all gather correct and accurate info on the bottles from your areas and get together and print a book on Ohio milk bottles.

 You can call it, "The Big Book On Ohio Milk Bottles". Those of you who know me should know that I never joke about information compilations. If you don't beleave me ask JGUS about the info I give him and it comes from sources like big books on stuff. It would probably make you rich.


----------



## carling (Jan 6, 2007)

Hey Parker (Higsmog),

 In answering your question, the Telling-Ott bottle doesn't say Cleveland, just the typical C.C.S.-c.  Sorry it took so long to answer back, I haven't checked back on this thread in awhile, and WOW, what a stir has been raised since my original postings!  

 Going back to the beginning of the postings, I mentioned taking this bottle to someone I was advised was an expert and somehow connected to the Ohio Bottle book, but probably wasn't you.  You seem much more of a conscientious speaker than the man I briefly spoke with, so I'm sure it wasn't you I spoke with.  But just to clarify why I was questioning the prices in the book:   

 I am not a milk bottle collector, know basically nothing about milk bottle prices or any other bottle prices, and I'm only a very novice bottle collector.  So when I found a milk bottle and was told it wasn't listed in the Ohio Bottle Book, naturally I or anyone would think, Cool!  It must be very rare and have a decent value if it isn't in a collector's reference book!  So when I took this bottle to a show and was directed to whom I presumed was the book author, or coauthor, or whoever it may have been, and was told "about 10 bucks" value, I think anyone would naturally question how the values were determined, given it was a bottle previously unknown to exist!   Now maybe it is just my novice ignorance since I've learned that Cleveland area milk bottles aren't exactly in high demand, so maybe "10 bucks" is all it is worth, even if it is the only one known to exist.  

 Thanks for your info you gave me regarding Tellings, very interesting.  And good luck on getting the collectors to contribute on the future updates.  I can imagine that must be tough.  Maybe going to a different pricing system would appease everyone, since pricing seems to be their complaint.  Maybe leave the dollars out and try multiple categories like "Common, Semi-Common, Rare, Very Rare, Priceless, etc.".

 Good luck and thanks!

 Rick

 P.S.  I can't get the book (newest or older edition) here in the Cleveland/Cuyahoga County Library System!  I've tried ordering it a couple times on line, but they don't have a copy and won't transfer it from another County library.  Just some FYI.


----------



## zanes_antiques (Jan 10, 2007)

Carling, 
    I have had several unlisted Cleveland Area Milks in the past year and have come to believe that for the most part they are almost worthless. I don't believe it is because of a lack of collectors in the area . There must be quite a few people from around Cleveland who collect milks, given it's size and population. All I can guess is that they just don't want to cut loose with the money and join us in the 21st Century. I have read and re-read the Ohio book many times and have come to several conclusions on how the prices were decided. The best guess I can make given Mr. Higby's own admission, is that he just sat down with very little time, and if he didn't know a particular bottle priced it between$8-$15. Not a very scientific method I must admit but he did get the book out on time! So far I have added atleast 50 bottles to the ones already listed. Just yesterday I saw 3 that were all from the same Perry County Dairy and only one was vaguely listed. That's another story in itself. You can get an idea of how scarce a bottle is just by the way it is listed in the book. For instance; if the book reads" The Snyder Country Dairy, Somerset, Ohio. $10-$12, raise an eyebrow. The bottles in that book are very specifically listed. They will tell every mark and variation on each bottle known to the collector who submitted the entry. I go by the theory, the more vague the listing the rarer the bottle no matter what price is on it. There is also another indicator I use in determining how good a bottle is from the book's listings. If it is a common bottle listed for $8-$10 it should say 1/2pint, pint, and quart also in the listing but if it is more scarce and listed for the same price he sometimes listed only one or two sizes of the bottle. Then there are the old "$14-$22 Bottles".This usually tells me something is up with the bottle also. The reason I say this is because there is not a difference of only $5 dollars between the common and rare bottles. It isn't reasonable to believe that a common bottle is worth $8-$10 dollars and a scarce bottle is only worth $10- $15 or $16-$22 for that matter. Your average common milk from anywhere in Ohio goes for about $10 in an antiques shop or bottle show. The scarce bottles go anywhere from $20-$50. The rare milks bring $50 and up. In my own little book, I have put together for my area, I have more bottles listed for $50 and up than what is in the whole Ohio Book. I may be stretching it just a bit by saying that but the point is that the Ohio book isn't just a hair off but a total failure. The only thing it is good for besides, cheating people, is to figure out what is known of and what is not. If you take it at it's face value, and try to use it to determine what your bottles are worth, then you will be far off on the value of any bottle that is anything but super common. Like I said before it's great to take to "little old lady's" homes and buy with. The only way that there will ever be an accurate guide to the value of milk bottles in the state of Ohio is if different people from different areas put together their own books. The task is too great for any one man to accomplish alone. For the most part I don't believe that there was a concerted effort to mislead people in the values but more of someone trying to do the impossible. On the other hand I know there are bottle prices listed for certain bottles in this book that the author knows are bogus.


----------



## JGUIS (Jan 11, 2007)




----------



## Gretchen Ott (Apr 16, 2010)

I just resumed my quest for an Ott Dairy milk bottle and found your post.  My grandfather owned Ott Dairy in Cleveland (I have a photo somewhere of my dad and his four brothers delivering milk).  My grandfather, Frederick Ott, married Eva Geneva Telling, and my cousin tells me that the Telling Vernon Milk Co. bought Ott Dairy.  So that might explain the Telling-Ott bottle.

 Sealtest bought them out and for years they maintained the name Telling in one of their ice cream varieties.


----------



## Gretchen Ott (Apr 16, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  Gretchen Ott
> 
> I just resumed my quest for an Ott Dairy milk bottle and found your post.  My grandfather owned Ott Dairy in Cleveland (I have a photo somewhere of my dad and his four brothers delivering milk).  My grandfather, Frederick Ott, married Eva Geneva Telling, and my cousin tells me that the Telling Bell Vernon Milk Co. bought Ott Dairy.  So that might explain the Telling-Ott bottle.
> 
> Sealtest bought them out and for years they maintained the name Telling in one of their ice cream varieties.


----------



## RED Matthews (Apr 16, 2010)

Well everyone; I just read this thread and I have to feel sorry for the man that spent his laid-up-time putting together material for publication and cover, only to stirrup such a tread of negativity, when no one else even tried to help.

 If for one put very little stock in the Price Guide efforts of many publication.  I am more interested in how the bottles were made and with what type of tools or processing methods made them.

 For example:  Does this Ohio book tell of a spike or birds swing in milk bottles.  Does tell what kind of metals were used for the IS-62 P&B plungers?  Does it tell of the use of Oil Can Spouts for the cooler form in those plungers?  I guess that is enough.  I worked on the HMB machines and their equipment back when a producing machine made 36 to 48 bottles per minute.  Today, we get our milk in a plastic jug and also with the hazard of melamine poisoning.  How times have changed.  Today it all seems to be about "How much is it worth?"   
 RED Matthews


----------

