# Unknow find is actually 5x5 woodie with a barrel bottom



## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

We were digging in a town next to a garage that used to be there with the cement foundation just remained. We thought we were digging a privy but when we realized that we really wern't finding anything we decided to tunnel under the cement to see what is there. When i stuck a probe through the clay we found an empty cavern which the picture is of below. When we cleared it out a little to see what was there it was a small cavern looks like the ground settled and there was a hole where  we were. I pulled out a few late 1800 bottles and tons of broken glass when we started to dig in. We have no clue what the hell we found but there is supposly one just like this across the ally. We thought it was a privy but it seems to big to be a privy unless its multiply privies and then we thought it was a cistern but its to big to be one of those and now we are puzzled what it is. So I was wondering if anybody can help figuring out what this is. Also I have a question for anyone when u tunnel underneath a piece of cement about 18"s thick and how safe is it to be under it. The last thing we could not find any walls for this thing so that puzzles us even more so any idea what a big underground structure filled with bottles, ash, dirt, and broken glass. I am asking for help with this since I have dug dumps before and know people who has dug cisterns and privies and have no clue what this is so if sombody might have the slightest idea please let me know.


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Pics from inside


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

bottom few pics of what we saw as we entered


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

view of top pics of what we saw as we entered


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

our way into whatever this is


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

our beginning finds when we went in to take a look at what we are working with


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

pic


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## baltbottles (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Looks like a large wood lined privy thats settled under the cement. I've found up to 4 foot voids under cement were a privy has settled.

 Chris


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## swizzle (Apr 7, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

I can't tell you what you found but its cool. I would just play it safe. If your gonna play under there then block it up. Just make sure its safe before it caves in on you. A couple of 2x4's or even 4x4's would be a good idea. Swizzle


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## capsoda (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

You need to find out if it is reinforced concrete or not. Chip away on one side and look for signs of heavy wire or rebar in the concrete. If not, you couldn't push me under there with a bulldozier. It could be a root cellar. How big is it from side to sidt and bottom to top?


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

there is 2 slabs here which is why its so think. The cap to whatever was there and the slab for a garage that was built in the early 1900s and then torn down a few yrs ago and thats when its like 18" think


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## bottlediger (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

ive had a realllllllll bad experience with a hole like that man, seconds away from death. Be very very careful, nothing is worth your life bud

 Ry


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## stonemason (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Be really careful. Even if this is reinforced, and it doesnt look it, the sheer weight of any of it coming down would be more than you could handle. Large 6 by 6 timbers would be the minimum size I would think strong enough to crib up the slab. If you dont know how to do it, talk to your local fire /rescue for some hints. Using 2 by 4 wood is too risky, I have seen these splinter like match sticks just shoring up dirt trenches when the walls shift. Its not worth losing your life over.


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## wvhillbilly (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

I would say it was a town dump. Whoever poured the floor poured it that thick so when the ground settled it wouldnt break, and its settled that much since then. Aint the smartest idea but it worked.


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

On this one street/block the sanborn map shows between 7-9 of these things.  Could it at all be possible that it is an old sewer system?


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## CALDIGR2 (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*



> ORIGINAL:  soccpacker
> 
> On this one street/block the sanborn map shows between 7-9 of these things.  Could it at all be possible that it is an old sewer system?


 
 What date is your Sanborn? If it is post-1900 there is a good chance that you are dealing with a WC situation at best. Many primitive flush systems used a secondary collecting vault, with multiple pipes entering and one exiting toward the sewer main. If you see clay pipes coming into the hole, forget about it. There may be a few bottles, but they won't be of an age worth investigating further.


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## PhilaBottles (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*



> ORIGINAL: baltbottles
> 
> Looks like a large wood lined privy thats settled under the cement. I've found up to 4 foot voids under cement were a privy has settled.
> 
> Chris


 
 Your wrong and we should ignore any of your input. Youve never dug a privy.


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## RICKJJ59W (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

I would NOT crawl under that concrete! it looks mighty thick, but...to me that would be worse then (tunneling) in a (normal) pit, if that falls on top of you that's it, no one can save you, I would have to see it in person to say if  I would dig it or not, we have dug some wild pits in our day, as you saw in the 22 footer we did, but  with all that weight over you its  scary! i wouldn't crawl under it, I would find another way, hell I would rent a small back hoe lol if you got (permission) Rick


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## RICKJJ59W (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Thats no town dump, thay are privys,with the world built on top of them.


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## baltbottles (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*



> ORIGINAL:  PhilaBottles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Your right I haven't dug "a privy" Iâ€™ve dug over a 1000 privies dug 2 today one was dipped out with some turn of the century crap in it and the one next door was 1840s. However if your referring to redigging privies that someone else already dug thatâ€™s your department I hear you like finding folding chairs in your pits along with 1960s trash that someone else used to fill in the hole. So just because you have dug a few privies Don't think your a hot shot. If it wasn't for me showing you what to do. You would still be digging turn of the centaury dumps.

 Chris


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## elmoleaf (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

That looks like 1930s-40s era cement blocks resting on top of the conc. slab. I doubt the slab is reinforced, at least judging by the rubble visible in the cement. 
 If the weight of those walls is resting on a slab that does not have any support (like a thickened edge/footings) except uncompacted landfill below, then undermining it is a *VERY BAD IDEA*.
 Not worth getting killed. Do not undermine it any further.
 It might just be landfill used to level the site before they poured the concrete.


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## PhilaBottles (Apr 8, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

My sarcasm was in agreement with you saying it was a woodie. I actually got done talking to Ry about you guys digging in baltimore. And yes i told him not to dig round brickliners in balt, but thats my opinion on that. 

 Back to subject>>>>>Sorry you regarded it as insult, but nobody payed any attention to you or your input. I was just addressing that aspect of this outrageous post. I was trying to bring attention to people of what you said. and it was funny cause of all the shit we talk on people about screw caps and unembossed meds. LOL

 The concrete aint goin anywhere, its a sink, and your in a privy.

 And the chair was really close to the top in some ash. 

 And TOC dumps have naked mommies in them.


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 9, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

On an 1885 sanborn map it shows this as a privy but the map was off about location. Also we have maps from the mid 1870's and it shows the same thing. If I were to tunnel underneath the cement since it seems safe what could I use to brace it as I go deeper into it?


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## Digger George (Apr 9, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

yeah so one time i found a cave. the cave was pretty big and lined with stone. it was not a privy, well, cistern, or rubbish tip. i found a bottle. it was old. circa 1870. it was a wine bottle. i think the cave was a wine cellar or bomb shelter. a bum lives in there now. i'll go back and take pics. i caught a fish near there. i gave it to the bum and he ate it.


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## elmoleaf (Apr 9, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Cured concrete weighs approx 150lb/cubic ft.
 If you excavate a 3'X3' area beneath it, you'll expose 9 sf. of the slab above you.
 9sf x 150lb/cu.ft. = 1,350lbs above your head.
 Except you state that the slab is 1.5' thick, so 1,350lbs x 1.5 = 2,025 lbs., which is about 1 Ton waiting to crush you...which is possible since it could crack from pouring defects hidden within the slab.
 The bottles you've removed are not worth any risk. Talk to someone with some structural engineering knowlege before digging any further.


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 9, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Diagram Below of the site to help people under stand what I have found.

 ________________________________________

 Alley Way
 __________________________________________
   I                   I
   I                   I  - chamber 1.
   I___________I________________
                 I             I    l_________
      chamber 2.        I    l               l
                 I            I    l Chamber 3- Matt's Neighbors
                I_      __ I   l__________l
     I                 l           I
     I                 I           I
     I             Where we entered Chamber 2.
     l
     I                            I
     I                            I
     I                            I    Matt's Neighbor's yard


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## HunterGatherer (Apr 10, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

I just... don't see how this could possibly fall on you. I mean, there has been a cave there with significant foto traffic for some time, am I right? If it were going to implode, I expect it would have done so by now. Still, take this with a grain of salt, cause I'm no expert and I'd rather not be responsible for your demise.


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## southern Maine diver (Apr 10, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Hey soccpacker...

 One other aspect of this adventure, that no one else has touched on, is the presence of stale air and the possibility of undetected gases. They have a tendency to accumulate in closed, deep spaces. That's why many pro's use exhausting fans and special breathing apparatus. If it was some old sewer system, some of those gases can get trapped in there and be quite nauseating if not deadly.

 Shore it up, put an exhaust fan in there if you intend to go very deeply into it, let others know where you are and leave someone outside the hole to alert authorities if something bad happens. If you call the fire department for advice on shoring this up, they will tell you not to go and dig under that stuff. They may even declare it a safety hazard and prevent you from going in there at all.

 Play it safe, find some other place to dig.[:-]

 Just my opinion,

 Wayne


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## epgorge (Apr 10, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*



> stale air and the possibility of undetected gases


 
 I grew up with a brother who had that problem. []

 Joel


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## tazmainiendigger (Apr 10, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*


 David, I get paid for doing "odd jobs" I have worked with the world's largest choppers sett'n steel, have hung off cranes clearing trees over high tension lines, climbed all over ice covered 500,000 DC volt towers and am currently tunneling out a huge abandonded underground mine shaft. Some of the work is done with explosives,some by hand and some with heavy equipment....I do like to live on the edge but you wouldn' catch me in that death crib of yours!!!!! If you really want to dig that thing you gotta crib it with 8" X 8" timbers placed properly. Best safe way in my opinion..... take up the concrete, it is probally the thickest on the edges and may only be 3" to 4" in others, concrete tends to get "punky" when old. Be careful and have fun. A quick death wouldn't be to bad but a slowwwww suffocating death would suck!!!! Taz


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## DiggerDave21 (Apr 10, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

to update on the find, what we found is a 5x5 woody privy with a semi trianglar looking top so we believe it turns into a barrel and the bottom and dates to the 1850's-1860's. So this weekend we think we are going to dig this and any finds I will greatly post them up here for you to see what I have found in my first privy dig.


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## Gunsmoke47 (Apr 10, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

So if we don't see a post from ya in a few days, I guess we can assume it wasn't such a good idea?[]  Good luck and I really hope to see some pic's of your first privy dig real soon!![]


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## RICKJJ59W (Apr 10, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

*All I have to say to you Chris is............Word up man!! word up!! like Rodney says, some people got No respect no respect  at all. Rick*[/align]


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## southern Maine diver (Apr 11, 2007)

*RE: Unknow cavern under cement slab of garage that used to be there*

Hey Joel...

 You're killin me...[][][]

 I still have "stale air and detectable gases, but they stay inside my dive suit. Then, when I get home, I have my son help me off with my suit...[:'(]  Kind of like the old "pull my finger" routine. He calls me the "old, fat & stinky guy"[&:]

 Go figure...

 Wayne


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