# GREEN ~ STRAIGHT-SIDED ~ ACL COCA COLA BOTTLE



## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

I thought I had seen most/all of the different varieties of Coca Cola bottles, but I've never seen this one. It's currently on eBay ... *Starting Bid @ $499.99**Buy It Now  @ $699.99* It would be interesting to know which bottler and glass manufacturer produced this bottle, and when? Is this a pre 1934 ACL?  If anyone has information on this bottle, please share it with us. *http://www.ebay.com/itm/ULTRA-RARE-Emerald-Green-Coca-Cola-Prototype-Applied-Color-Label-ACL-Coke-Bottle-/121258270510 *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

*P.S.* 1.  The eBay listing ends this coming Sunday, January 26, 20142.  I just sent Bill Porter an email asking if he knows anything about the bottle. Hopefully I will hear     back from him later today.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

Here's a picture of the base ... Is that a 20, 29, 30, 39 or some other numbers? What's that other mark I can't make out? And what about the line?


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## zecritr (Jan 24, 2014)

not sure myself but wasn't something mentioned about the script and the way it is made?


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## MichaelFla (Jan 24, 2014)

IMHO that's someone's attempt at faking a bottle. Of course, I'm no expert on bottles, especially ACL bottles. But the print on the script seems too thick or... I can't put my finger on it. Just not right. The print seems to have slipped a little on the word Delicious. Looks almost like Dolcious.


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 24, 2014)

Wouldn't it be required to state Fl. Oz.'s somewhere? I don't see that as paint or embossed.I suppose it could have had a paper label also.I'm not trusting it or rich enough to buy it anyway.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

I'm keeping an open mind for the time being and not jumping to conclusions just yet. Some valid points have been raised which *might *be explained thusly ... The contents part, as well as other information, could have be on the backside of the bottle and that portion of the acl has worn off. The script looks post 1930s, but then again I'm not certain about that. The only thing I am currently certain of is that the slogan "Delicious and Refreshing" was first used by Coca Cola around 1904. But as to how many years they continued to use the slogan I do not know. I'm not suggesting the bottle is a 1904 acl, I'm merely pointing out the date of the slogan and the possibility that it might be the real deal. The wear on the acl could have been faked as well. However, under the zoom on eBay it looks pretty original. ???    This one needs some extensive research, but I admit I'm not sure where to start. I haven't heard back from Bill Porter yet, but hope to soon.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

P.S. Because of the eBay seller's use of the word "*heel*," it tells me they know a thing or two about bottles. Your average person most likely would not use the term "heel." Plus, they stated it was "a hard one to find," which sounds as if they have either seen or heard about other examples.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

The only emerald green Coca Cola bottle I am aware of is the one commonly referred to as the "Export" bottle which had a paper label with gold colored foil around the top and was only used during the 1920s and 1930s. Study the two bottles closely and see if you think they are similar in any way ...  http://www.coca-colaconversations.com/page/45


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

*P.S. * Notice in the text of the "Export" bottle advertisement the use of the words ... *"Delicious and Refreshing"*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

If this is a genuine bottle as it appears to be, then it indicates the Coca Cola "Export" bottles also came in amber. I'm looking for pictures of export bottles in search of clues and also to compare the script and various other things to the mystery bottle. Maybe, just maybe the mystery bottle is *another variation *of these sold called "Export" bottles, but has an ACL label instead of a paper label. ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

*P.S.* I'm also looking for *dated *ads regarding the "Export" bottles to see if they are dated in the mid 1930s which would place them in the early acl period, which most of us know was around 1934 and later. The only actual date I have come across so far for the paper label "Export" bottles is *1929*.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

From Allan Petretti's 2008 12th Edition Book ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

Same link I posted earlier where it says ...

[URL]http://www.coca-colaconversations.com/page/45[/URL]

"These bottles were only distributed on Trans-Atlantic luxury ocean liners from the late 1920s to the early 1930s. Because these bottles were to be consumed on board the ships, fewer than a dozen of them have survived, making this bottle almost impossible to find."


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## MichaelFla (Jan 24, 2014)

Okay, after going back and reviewing the original pics, the thing I couldn't put my finger on was the pixelation of the label. But as I looked closer at it, it is the photo that I'm seeing the pixelation on, not the label.


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## MichaelFla (Jan 24, 2014)

Emerald, amber & cobalt? That would make one heck of a Coca-Cola bottle display!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 24, 2014)

My best guess on this cropped and photo edited image of the base is ... *30 * But I'm not necessarily saying it's a date - only that it looks like 30 to me and *might *be a date.


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## zecritr (Jan 24, 2014)

keep trying ot see the whole script,doesn't show the whole thing in any of the pic's would be cool,like he said above something justs nagging at me about it. cool though if it is and probably underpriced if is lol. so which bottlers were still doing straight sides in the 30's? might narrow it down,just a thought


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 25, 2014)

Here's a link to the 1920s ad I posted earlier - but this one is slightly larger and more easily readable ... *"Delicious and Refreshing"* http://www.adbranch.com/coca-cola-for-export/coca-cola_for_export_in_bottles_1920s/


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 25, 2014)

Anything that mentions the "exports" as having painted anything yet? They all look paper label so far but ads don't tend to mention specifics, do they?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 25, 2014)

As crazy as this sounds, I'm honestly beginning to think there is a connection between the mystery acl bottle and the export bottles - but still searching for confirmation.


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## splante (Jan 25, 2014)

thought the acl process started around 1934 or so......I wouldnt trust it ,could be real but the condition alone would keep me away even if I could blow 5 to 6 hundread


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## splante (Jan 25, 2014)

sellar seems to sell a lot of rare high end bottles so maybe I shouldnt jump to conclusions


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## morbious_fod (Jan 26, 2014)

I've seen that marking before and I'm quite sure that's the date. In all honesty it could have been a prototype of some type using an older bottle like when you see those re-purposed acls where a newer label is placed over an older label.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 26, 2014)

The picture below is an embossed number on the heel of the bottle but I not sure what it is. I contacted the seller and asked for specifics on *all *of the embossed marks but I'm not sure they will get back to me because the listing ends in about two hours. If I do hear from them, I will be sure and share what they tell me.


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## Plumbata (Jan 26, 2014)

Looks fake, but I'm not convinced the seller is complicit. It's hard to say how big the sellers hands are, but relative to the 6.5 or 7 ounce capacity bottles they have listed and are also shown holding (despite their considerably thicker walls) this green monstrosity appears both taller and of a larger diameter. It appears to be a 12 ounce bottle of a style I find in abundance in late 20s-early 30s dumps. Correct me if wrong but I don't think they sold 12 ounce portions until quite a bit after the early 30s. Also, consider the extra expense of applying ACL to a thin-walled and low quality bottle "intended for export" (and thus single use). Why not just stick to the paper labels, which would have been most recognizable and familiar to those in the intended markets anyway?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 26, 2014)

I'm keeping an open mind but at this point just don't know if the bottle is genuine or not. But one thing I am 99.9% certain of (based on the dozens of examples I have seen) is that the word Drink is never, ever printed in the lower case and is always capitalized. Notice how the word "DRINK" is situated between the Cs in this 1930s sign but is in capital letters. I don't consider this conclusive, but it's definitely something to consider. [ For Comparison ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 26, 2014)

I have also looked at dozens of original Coca Cola items that have *5C*ents on them and have not found a single *5* that looks like the one on the green bottle. Notice how it curves upward at the top. Every original *5 *I have seen has what I call a "flat-top"


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 26, 2014)

P.S. Did you notice in the vintage ad I posted that *Drink *is spelled in the lower case?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 26, 2014)

*"Saturday Evening Post"  ~  December 14, 1922*


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## OsiaBoyce (Jan 27, 2014)

Coke did not have a painted lable till what.................60-61. Knowing that should have saved hours of trying to legitimize an obvious fake.


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 27, 2014)

I don't think normal rules would apply to an export with possible cruise ship use involved. Larger and lighter bottles may have been what they needed so they may have done something completely different than the regular US market, which at this point may be the aim, to find a connection. I don't know if you heard the old saying or not but "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all" is a good one.Try it sometime, you may like it.


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## OsiaBoyce (Jan 27, 2014)

Export, cruise ship and fake  bottles....................................... hate to tell ya Eric, there is no connection. You and Bob go on and keep looking for something that does not exist. As far as hearing the line about saying something nice, have ya ever heard this one. "if ya don't know what you're talking about.......................  Eric, you have self admittedly stated you know nothing about soda bottles, when did you gain so much knowledge or interest? Let me guess................from Bob. If ya want to learn from experts who know what they are talking about, talk to Doug, Dennis. They deal in facts not wild speculation.


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 27, 2014)

Well, everybody has one.Chill out for a while. Again.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 27, 2014)

Just for the record ...

Most accounts date Coca Cola's first ACL around 1957. But there are examples dated 1955 which is when Coca Cola also introduced their 26 ounce "Family Size" bottle ... 


Bottle Timeline
[URL=http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/ETclanSETH114/bottlehistory.html]http://www.angelfire.com/...114/bottlehistory.html

1955 26 Ounce "Family Size" ACL
[URL=http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coca-cola-coke-1955-full-family-size-455024240]http://www.worthpoint.com...-family-size-455024240


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 27, 2014)

Just for the record ... According to author and Coca Cola historian Cecil Munsey ... [ From page 59 of "The Illustrated Guide To The Collectibles of Coca Cola ~ Copyright 1972 ] "*The ACL process was first developed in the United States around 1920. It was not until the 1930's, however, that it began to replace the popular mold-created embossments as a means of decoration and identification."*


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 27, 2014)

Not just that but the later and more washable methods came out also.Nothing to do with soda Pat but it was a process on other bottles as well so I'm safe with knowing nothing or collecting soda's, in your words.Oops, I forgot, your in a time out.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 27, 2014)

As a side project I am also researching this sign which shows an unusual (painted) label bottle which, apparently, is supposed to date "prior" to 1955. I will do a follow up on this if/when I find any confirmation. By the way, Coca Cola 6 ounce bottles remained at 5-Cents until around 1959. So even if the sign is from 1959, the label pictured is still unusual.


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## MichaelFla (Jan 27, 2014)

This is exactly the reason I prefer embossed bottles instead of ACL. There is never a question of the correct labeling with embossing. It either is or isn't. And living in Florida, paper labels don't do well in our moist air.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 27, 2014)

The embossed heel number I posted earlier looks like another *30 *but is *upside-down *...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 27, 2014)

*Speaking of embossed green Coca Cola Bottles ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 27, 2014)

*Bases ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 27, 2014)

P.S. The makers mark on the embossed bottle appears to be ... *3 <(I)> 7* Which is an Owens-Illinois mark and (if I'm seeing it correctly), the 7 is most likely for *1937*. With the *3 *indicating it was made in Fairmont, West Virginia (which began operation around 1930).


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## celerycola (Jan 27, 2014)

Every now and then I stop by the Soda Forum to see if sanity has returned but am always disappointed. The handful of people who generate these fanciful and ridiculous threads do a disservice to the hobby and especially to new collectors looking for reliable information. Anyone who challenges these flights of fancy bears the brunt of personal attacks for their attempts to bring discussion back to earth. Not long ago I reviewed the rules everyone agrees to when subscribing to this forum and currently they are selectively applied like a popularity contest. Fortunately, there are other online forums for serious collectors of soda bottles and advertising. Until this Forum returns to a friendly place where where honest questions are asked and knowledgeable answers provided anyone looking for a link to good information shared by a friendly group of serious collectors please PM me. I will gladly respond if I am not banned.


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## T D (Jan 27, 2014)

Amen.  Life was better before we went down the rabbit hole...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 28, 2014)

This topic falls into two basic categories ...

1.  Providing proof that the green acl Coca Cola bottle is genuine.
2.  Providing proof that the green acl Coca Cola bottle is a fake.

It has to be one or the other and cannot be both. If we jump to conclusions in either direction without providing the necessary proof, then all that leaves us with is opinions. Opinions carry a certain measure of wealth but are still not proof. And when we include words like "obvious" fake, I am compelled to ask what is it about the bottle that indicates it is "obviously" a fake? Is it just because no one has ever seen one and that pictures of one cannot be found in a book or on the Internet? Or is there something about it that I have overlooked that proves it's a fake?

I think the main word we are overlooking here, and which was used in the eBay listing, is the word "Prototype." Have any of you who are 100% certain it's an obvious fake ever examined the bottle or one like it? If so, please tell us about it. But if you have never examined the bottle personally or one like it, then how can you be so certain?

I do not deny I am leaning toward the bottle as being genuine, but I will never know that for certain without doing the necessary research and find the answers to support my opinion. But you will not hear me say it is either fake or genuine without providing the proof to substantiate my opinion.

And if it does turn out to be genuine, I feel it will be a significant discovery among soda bottle collectors worldwide.

Please remember, it was not I who posted it on eBay and was asking $699.00 for it. Nor was it I who described it as a prototype, that information falls squarely on a seller by the name of strawberryblonde. I merely stumbled onto to it and it naturally caught my eye as you would expect it would. And let's also not forget, as another member pointed out earlier, the seller seems to deal in high end bottles and just might know a thing or two about the green one in question that we don't.

And yes, if it becomes available I just might purchase it!   

Respectfully,

Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 28, 2014)

P.S. I just might purchase it, *providing that **a certain collector I know doesn't beat me to it!*


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## zecritr (Jan 28, 2014)

GREAT ANSWER BOB  IF  someone wants to be a "serious" collector then someone has to ask questions,instead of gee that's a pretty bottle. Statements are just that, statements, not proof. InFormed Opinions are great,just let us know how you were informed please and Thank You.


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## Plumbata (Jan 28, 2014)

Well, when did Coca-Cola start offering their product in 12 ounce bottles? Why would a hefty 12 ounce portion cost a mere 5 cents, when a standard 6.5 ounces was priced at 5 cents? Also, why is the "D" in "Drink" skewed and floating above the level of the rest of the letters, if not the more recent work of an amateur forger?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 28, 2014)

*zecritr and Plumbata:* At this juncture I feel this thread has pretty much run it's course - at least to the point that not much more can be said until such time if/when proof (by a hands on examination of the bottle)can be done to prove either the bottle's legitimacy or fraudulence. Unfortunately, I cannot provide either at the moment and recommend anyone interested to contact the seller. As to my discourse regarding a possible connection with the rare "Export" bottles, that was a side path of my own doing primarily because the export bottles were the only varieties I was aware of that were emerald green in color and of a similar shape. As far as I know, the contents/size has not been established, yet. The key word now (at least as far as I'm concerned) is "*P**rototype*."  Thanks Bob


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## zecritr (Jan 28, 2014)

Good Questions P  At Least one from me   Why is it all only on one side? nothing? on the other side?Honestly i look at the empty side i and i think 60's 7-up bottle no one bought it at that price. go figure


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 28, 2014)

Here's a prototype that never went into production as originally designed because some amateur didn't take into account that it was too wide in the center and continually toppled over and got stuck during machine handling experiments ... (Lol) []


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## cokebottle1916 (Jan 29, 2014)

I can't believe how you guys can research a bottle. No one will ever pull one over on you guys. Good Luck. Buzz


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 29, 2014)

Plumbata said:
			
		

> Why would a hefty 12 ounce portion cost a mere 5 cents, when a standard 6.5 ounces was priced at 5 cents?



*Introduced in 1934 ...* http://books.google.com/books?id=A3qkEROgsqoC&pg=PA115&lpg=PA115&dq=pepsi+cola+12+ounce+bottle+for+a+nickel&source=bl&ots=c8n9JiZEYa&sig=XKBVVLc47QdqzLETjImJRME0KJY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sRTpUpm5CIjmrAHLvoG4Dw&ved=0CD8Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=pepsi%20cola%2012%20ounce%20bottle%20for%20a%20nickel&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 29, 2014)

Size comparison ... Both pictures are by the same seller but of different bottles ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/1942-Opelika-Alabama-Ala-Al-WW2-Coca-Cola-Coke-Bottle-/121242062594?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c3a970f02


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 29, 2014)

P.S. The seller (item location) is in ... *Montgomery, Alabama* If a forum member lives in or near Montgomery, perhaps they could contact the seller and arrange to examine the bottle first-hand.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 29, 2014)

P.S. ~ P.S. In case you haven't discovered it yet, after you click on either of the two pics to enlarge them, and then click on it again after it opens, the two pics will appear back and forth simultaneously.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 29, 2014)

Scenario ...

If the green acl was re-listed for $6.99 instead of $699.00, I suspect it would sell in a heartbeat whether it was genuine or not. I obviously cannot speak for everyone, but it would behove me to believe that any collector would not be willing to gamble a mere $6.99 to acquire a possibly rare bottle. Again, I cannot speak for everyone, but I feel it's the price more than anything else that is the biggest obstacle here.

By the way, I have been in contact with the seller and recommend that others do the same. I suspect this is not the last we have seen of the bottle.


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## T D (Jan 29, 2014)

Bob, you made two statements in post #46 that are patently absurd.  You said we are overlooking their eBay description *"prototype"* and that they seem to deal in *high end bottles*.  My temptation was to end this post after that first sentence to let the weight of the previously stated absurdity sink in and reverberate by itself.  No, I can't be so smart...   I have met both this lady and her husband and have bought from them at shows.  (I assume they are husband and wife, but I don't know, and as a side note they do sell on eBay under two different accounts for whatever that is worth).  They are both nice people and I have never had any issues with them.  eBay has become an ever increasing venue for trying to capture a big buyer with a bottle that has an unknown history/origin/or whatever you want to call it.  I have no clue what their knowledge of the bottle is, and I really don't care, and I'm not saying they are guilty of it, but anybody can throw in "prototype" and words like that to increase the "WOW" of the bottle and perhaps lure a less knowledgeable buyer in.  To use that as a base for us to build our research and discussion on is flimsy at best. As to the second point, they do not deal in high end bottles.  I dare say most of the bottles they deal in (at least what I am aware of) are relatively common soda bottles from Alabama and Georgia.  They have offered some much rarer bottles on eBay, but they usually have some damage.  This in my limited experience does not constitute a high end bottle.  And again to use that as a base for us to build our research and discussion on is flimsy.  One way that I may differ from a lot of people is this-  I would not waste even $6.99 on the hope and prayer that it may be a one of a kind find, because my experience tells me that it is not.


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## Plumbata (Jan 29, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Here's a prototype that never went into production as originally designed because some amateur didn't take into account that it was too wide in the center and continually toppled over and got stuck during machine handling experiments ... (Lol) []



 The apparent fact that you mentally equate the level of skill required to design, create the molds, and then manufacture the complex prototype hobbleskirt coke with the amateur skills required to apply red paint to a junk green bottle provides quite the insight into your default thought process. 





			
				SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Plumbata said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



  This answers nothing, and is utterly irrelevant. Coca-Cola=/=Pepsi-Cola. Why would *Coca-Cola* start offering *their* product in 12 ounce bottles for 5 cents, when a standard 6.5 ounces was priced at 5 cents at the same time? The answer is simple. They wouldn't. They enjoyed a lucrative majority of the cola market-share as well as pervasive brand recognition, and at the time would have had no compelling motivation to offer twice the product for the same price. And, to entertain the absurd notion that it was a prototype "*export*" bottle, why would the price be denominated in *Cents*? The export bottles were intended for distribution in European markets where the USD was not official (usage on cruise ships is incidental), and besides, the '20s ad detailing the sale of the cases of labeled export bottles clearly shows that the price for a case of 60 "split" bottles (187.5 ml, or 6.34 oz) was 6 dollars, or *10 cents* a piece. The bottles were fancy with champagne style foil and the ad specifically references their "handsome" labels and decoration, which I presume would mesh with upper-class European sensibilities far better than new-fangled ACLs. Coca-Cola would not have authorized the production of even prototypes of such a bottle because of several glaringly ludicrous features already mentioned. Even if priced at 6.99, the purchase wouldn't be a worthy gamble or anything else besides a foolish waste of money.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 29, 2014)

I acknowledge and appreciate everyone's *opinions*. I hope they will eventually lead to *proving *whether the bottle is genuine or fake. At this point I recommend addressing your doubts to the seller and not me. It is they who are claiming the bottle is a genuine prototype. Even though I feel there is possibility that the bottle is genuine, that too is just an opinion which I will never know for certain until such time if/when the bottle can be examined first hand.   By the way, I received a reply from the seller in response to my inquiry, and as it turns out there are only two numbers embossed on the bottle. The base number (above the line) is *30*. The heel number is *98*.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 29, 2014)

Base and Heel numbers ... *30                      98*


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## hemihampton (Jan 29, 2014)

This seller has sold lots of exspensive Cokes to the Sheik the past few months so they are not new at selling bottles or Coke bottles. LEON.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 30, 2014)

I'd like to switch gears for a moment and focus on another green, straight sided (block letters) Coca Cola bottle, (which I posted pictures of earlier). They are often referred to as "Rare" but as you will see below there seems to be an ample supply of them. So I'd say they are actually somewhat common. But what do we really know about them? Which parts of the country were they distributed in? Which glass manufactures produced them? Which bottlers bottled them? Did they have paper labels? If so, what did the paper labels look like? Which brands and/or flavors of beverage did they contain?



Even without asking these questions it would be easy to assume that ...

1.  They did not contain Coca Cola.
2.  They are most likely "flavor" bottles.
3.  They most likely contained Ginger Ale or a similar flavor.
4.  They probably had paper labels.

Even though I am probably right on most (if not all) of the above answers, I admit I am just guessing and in reality know very little about these particular bottles and have no actual facts regarding them. It could very well be there is a collector among us that can tell us everything there is to know about these bottles - and if this is the case, please let us hear from you. But on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of collectors are like me and can only guess about these bottles and in reality don't know squat about them and cannot provide any documented facts pertaining to them. One thing I hope we can agree on is that these bottles are not fakes - the fact they are embossed and in apparent abundance suggest otherwise. And if you're thinking they are no-account, ordinary flavor bottles and not worthy of discussion, I acknowledge your opinion but emphasize that that line of thought does not help bring us any closer to understanding the true origin and use of these bottles.

The primary reason I selected these particular bottles as a side topic is to point out that it's one thing to categorize a one-only, unknown bottle like the green acl as a fake, but an entirely different thing to place these bottles in the same category, especially when you take into account there are so many of them. And yet, even with this said, what "facts" do we have about these embossed, green Coca Cola bottles that can clearly identify them? And by "identify," I'm referring to factual who-what-when-and where information.

Another reason I am focusing on these bottles is to illustrate that even a somewhat common bottle like this can sometimes elude us as to their exact origin, use, and distribution, and that pertinent information related to them is not always readily available. But just because these bottles are a bit of a mystery (at least to me) does this automatically mean we should throw them under a bus and forget about them? Or are they worthy of a little attention so as to solve the mystery about them once and for all time?

Maybe, just maybe we don't know everything there is to know about every soda bottle ever made (not yet, anyway) and there are still a few out there that need more research to determine exactly what the truth is about them.

~ * ~

These first five links pertain to the same bottle, but no one seems to know much about them and more often than not appear to be guessing ...

[URL=Http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/green-coca-cola-bottle-291805784]Http://www.worthpoint.com...-cola-bottle-291805784 [URL=http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/early-coca-cola-bottling-company-417016556]http://www.worthpoint.com...ling-company-417016556

[URL=http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/early-emerald-green-coca-cola-440062648]http://www.worthpoint.com...en-coca-cola-440062648

[URL=http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/deep-green-coca-cola-bottle-479590022]http://www.worthpoint.com...-cola-bottle-479590022

[URL=http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coca-cola-rare-old-green-straight-side-bottle]http://www.worthpoint.com...n-straight-side-bottle

~ * ~

Here's one I thought was interesting. And even though it does not include a clear picture to support the seller's description, I really can't imagine him making up a thing like the following makers mark if the bottle did not have it. However, based on everything I know about Laurens Glass Works marks, I read this one to indicate 1911. But is it really a 1911 bottle or did the seller misread the mark? Or am I mistaken about my understanding of LGW marks?   


E1LGW1  (1911?)

[URL=http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coca-cola-ounce-green-coke-bottle-308396885]http://www.worthpoint.com...-coke-bottle-308396885


Here's a link about the history of the Laurens Glass Works ~ Since 1910 ~ pdf

[URL=http://scholarcommons.sc.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1022&context=lib_facpub]http://scholarcommons.sc....amp;context=lib_facpub


Here's a link about Bottle Makers Marks that most of us are familiar with ... 

Scroll to LGW

http://www.glassbottlemarks.com/bottlemarks-3/

~ * ~

If you opened all of links then you noticed that all of the bottles are basically the same - with each appearing to be the same size, shape, color, and all embossed on opposite shoulders with ...

Coca Cola Bottling Co.

~ * ~


The pictures below are of one of the bottles in question, with this particular example being marked ...

3 <(I)> 7

Which I interpret as being made by Owens-Illinois ~ Plant #3 / Fairmont, West, Virginia ~ 1937. (Or is it 1947?)

If the Laurens Glass Works bottle is in fact a 1911 bottle, then am I to believe these same bottles were made by different manufacturers as early as 1911 and as late as 1937-1947?

If anyone has factual information regarding these green, embossed Coca Cola bottles and can provide a link - book reference - or other form of a substantial reference to them, please share that information with us. However, no "guessing" allowed! Facts only, please.  []

Gracias'

Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 30, 2014)

And the base of the bottle ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 30, 2014)

I'm a little rusty on my LGW marks today, so I had to refer to the following website to refresh my memory. Based on the information it contains, it is not likely the LGW bottle I referred to is dated 1911 - but I have no way of knowing that for certain without seeing a clear picture of the mark. However, even if the seller did misread the mark, I think it's safe to assume that the bottle most likely does have the LGW mark - after all, he did post a picture of the base even thought you can't make it out clearly - either that or he was just lying about it. If anyone knows, please refresh us as to what the "E" represents in E LGW   From shag.org ~ pdf file ~ Scroll to Page 52 ...  http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/coca-cola.pdf Here's a 1951 Laurens Glass ad showing a similar bottle - although not necessarily referring to an emerald green bottle ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 30, 2014)

P.S. So as not to get too far afield on this new topic, I recommend that we not spend time speculating whether the seller's bottle is an LGW or not because without a clear picture of the mark we will never know for certain anyway unless someone has a bottle exactly like it. The main emphasis is with the majority of these bottles and who used them. We know at least one of them is dated either a 1937 or 1947 and that should be a close enough for our purposes here. The main questions are ... 1.  What "exactly" did they contain?2.  Did they have paper labels - and if so what did the labels look like?3.  Which Coca Cola bottlers used them and where?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 30, 2014)

Oh-oh ... Look what I just found! I take back everything I said earlier about the E1LGW1 bottle because here's another one with a picture of the heel ... http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coca-cola-dark-green-6oz-e1lgw1-base-431601725 I wish I could recall my LGW basics ... Does the E (5th letter of the alphabet) stand for the number five and the bottle is a 1951?


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## morbious_fod (Jan 30, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Base and Heel numbers ... *30                      98*



Looks like date and mold number to me.

I just noticed something interesting in one of the close up photos of the Coca-Cola "acl". Am I the only one who sees a failed attempt to include the "trademark" in the tail of the first C? It looks like it ended up turning into a series of dots rather than working. Maybe this was a much later silk screen label put on the bottle by someone trying to make a buck, if it was nearly anything but Coca-Cola I would almost buy it; however, Coca-Cola is the single most victim of fakes and reproductions including placing the Coca-Cola logo on items that never carried it.

Here are some examples of reproductions on other glass items. Is it too far fetched to think that they can do the exact same with a glass bottle?

http://www.realorrepro.com/article/Coca-Cola-Fakes-in-Glass-and-China [attachment=Coca+Cola+Bottle+Green+ACL+(3).jpg]


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## morbious_fod (Jan 30, 2014)

The seltzer bottle below which the above link states is fake has a label that is strikingly similar to the green bottle in question. Just different colors.[attachment=img06.jpg][attachment=Coca+Cola+Bottle+Green+ACL.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 31, 2014)

Morb

That's one of the many things I like about your contributions - you provide evidence to support your observations and do not inject emotions towards those who might have a different opinion. The one thing I found especially interesting on the Allan Petretti site you posted a link to is the fake, yellow, ceramic pitcher. Notice that the 5 on the pitcher is almost identical to the 5 on the bottle and how both curve upward at the top. You might recall my saying earlier that I was having difficulty finding a similar 5 on original items. Even though I do not feel this observation is 100% conclusive either way, your discovery is definitely worthy of consideration and possibly the best contribution thus far.

As to purchasing the bottle, I'd like to have it even if it is a fake. The only thing preventing me from owning it now is the price. In fact, I have already made an offer on it but the seller said my offer was about what they paid for it and that they were hoping to get more. I do not know the seller but I get the impression from them that they definitely believe the bottle to be a genuine prototype of some kind.

Here are the 5s for comparison - green bottle on the left - yellow pitcher on the right ...


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## iggyworf (Jan 31, 2014)

I agree. Excellent research work to all you guys who helped on this bottle. My girlfriend collects cokes and I was keeping tabs on this one. Trying to learn as much as possible. Thanx.


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## fishnuts (Jan 31, 2014)

Finally, my .02 worth and imho, the bottle is a fake.Possibly, probably made by the same (con)artist that made all the red screen printed dozens/hundreds of WWII milk bottles, which one can still find in antique malls.  Each one of those that I have hand examined showed this old screen printer that they were new but distressed looking images on vintage, (i.e. Used looking) bottles. I do not know milk bottle mfg marks as well as soda bottles marks so I do not know if those bottles screens upon were actually of the WWII vintage, or before.  Or after.   I have seen plenty of these frauds/fakes, all priced less than $40.  All done in red onlys.  Most had WWII patriotic images: aircraft, tanks, etc...  And, upon my first sighting I had selected two for myself that I knew where seriously 'undervalued' at forty bucks per.  However, as my wife and I examined the entire display it became obvious to us, particularly as they were priced way way below normal.And, there were more that a dozen of these all in one dealer space scattered among your normal mall finds of $2 to $10 bottle dross.When I note the photos of this 'coca cola' I note that the base appears to be that of a newer bottle than it's advertised 'age'.About as real as The duck hunters, say.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 1, 2014)

*Night Shift ... ???* Even though I would like to own the green acl bottle (whether it's a fake or genuine), I think the one thing more than anything else that bugs me about it is the 5Cents on the neck. And I don't necessarily mean the font-style of the 5 itself (because as you will see below that a similar 5 was used on some of the earlier Coca Cola items), but rather because the 5 is on the neck of the bottle. Based on everything I know about the introduction of the acl process in the early to mid 1930s, the application of an acl to a non-flat surface was not achieved until later on. But then again, being as I am not certain when the bottle was manufactured, (which could have been in 1930 or later) it's hard to say which era of the acl process it was done in. In fact, I'm not even certain the label is an acl - for all I know it could have been applied with a stencil and spray paint. It's the aspect of not knowing all the answers that intrigues me most. If the bottle can be examined and determined that the label was in fact applied by a genuine acl process, then it would shed an entirely new light on the subject. But to acquire the bottle at a reasonable price is another matter. The only thing not discussed here that I can think of is the possibility of the bottle being created by what is sometimes referred to as a "night-shift crew." But irregardless of any of these possibilities, I am still of the opinion the bottle needs to be examined by an expert before any definite conclusions can be arrive at.  Here's an example of a similar 5C ~ Dated Circa 1900 ~ Celluloid Book Mark


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## FitSandTic (Feb 2, 2014)

I just want to know if you found your Coca Cola blob top yet?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 2, 2014)

FitSandTic said:
			
		

> I just want to know if you found your Coca Cola blob top yet?



Not yet - but there's at least one out there somewhere. And even if it's a fake, I'd like to have it as well ... 
[URL=http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/an-interview-with-coca-cola-bottle-collector-and-author-doug-mccoy/]http://www.collectorsweek...and-author-doug-mccoy/ 

[h4]Collectors Weekly: What are some of your favorite bottles in your collection?[/h4]_McCoy_:"Some of my favorites are the error bottles. I have one with an upside-down Coca-Cola logo. People who worked the nightshift would make bottles incorrectly and sneak them out of the factory. Some of those have made their way onto eBay. You can also find some with incorrect colors. I really enjoy trying to find different variations of those bottles. Some of my other favorites are the bottles with the red and white labels that they used in the 1970s. They’re very eye-catching and make a great display."


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 2, 2014)

I just purchased an example of a bottle I spoke about earlier - it's like the one pictured below and is emerald green and has Coca Cola Bottling Co. embossed in block letters on the shoulder. Mine is marked on the base with 3 <(I)> 7 and was made by Owens-Illinois in 1937. But what's especially interesting about it is that it's almost identical to the early 7up bottles and is the same size, shape, and color. Plus it has *G6795 *embossed on the heel, which is an Owens-Illinois mold/style number. My collection of 7up bottles are currently packed away but when I get around to checking them I expect to find the same mold/style number on at least a couple of them. Now why do you suppose Coca Cola would use an identical bottle as that used by 7up in the late 1930s?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 2, 2014)

P.S.

Regarding the green, G6795, 7 ounce Owens-Illinois Coca Cola bottle I just posted ...

If you think it's a 1947 Owens-Illinois bottle and not a 1937, please consider the following.

1.  Would a 1947 bottle have a single digit 7?
2.  Would a 1947 bottle have what I call the earlier "fat" Owens-Illinois mark?
3.  Would a 1947 bottle not have Duraglas embossed on the base?
4.  Would a 1947 bottle have a paper label?
5.  Would a 1947 bottle not be an ACL?6.  Would a 1947 bottle have numerous tiny bubbles scattered throughout the glass?

By the way, I was forgetting my Owens-Illinois basics earlier and just remembered that a paper label bottle and an ACL bottle have different mold/style numbers. The 7 ounce 7up ACL bottles are usually marked G-94 - with this same code appearing on Squirt and various other bottles of a similar size, shape, and color. I now suspect the Owens-Illinois G6795 code is more likely to be found on non-ACLs such as the paper label 7up bottle pictured below. Unfortunately I do not have one of these paper label 7up bottles and ask if anyone does to please check it and if it is an Owens-Illinois bottle, see if it is marked G6795 or possibly has some other numbers on it?

Thanks

Here's an example of a 7 ounce 7up bottle with a paper label ~ Exact date and code unknown.


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## sunrunner (Feb 2, 2014)

even if the acl was gown in the back,it shued leve a ghost emage . most of the time.


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## morbious_fod (Feb 3, 2014)

I just have to yank your chain, even though I agree with you that the bottle is a 1937.

1.  Would a 1947 bottle have a single digit 7? The answer is yes. It is possible for a 1947 bottle to have a single digit; however, it would have an embossed dot beside it. In fact most 1947s that I have seen have the 7 with the dot, and a tiny 4 embossed diagonal of the 7. 

2.  Would a 1947 bottle have what I call the earlier "fat" Owens-Illinois mark? It is possible for an older mold to be modified for a 1947 bottle.

3.  Would a 1947 bottle not have Duraglas embossed on the base? Duraglas embossed on the base wasn't completely universal. In fact my OCBCO green seven ounce bottle from Marion, VA doesn't have the stippling or Duraglas embossed on it, yet it does have the "fat" Owens Illinois mark, and a dot beside the 7. The reason is that this mold was originally made around 1931, and they just updated the date rather than creating a new mold. Conclusion it is possible.

4.  Would a 1947 bottle have a paper label? Yes, Pepsi was paper label till at least 1947 in Marion, VA. In 1947 they introduced the first acl, of course the previously mentioned green bottle used a Blue Ridge Ginger Ale paper label until the early 1950's.

5.  Would a 1947 bottle not be an ACL?.  Answered that one above. Would a 1947 bottle have numerous tiny bubbles scattered throughout the glass? While the process was better there could still be bubbles in the glass by 1947.

All of this was just to point out that anything is possible. The Coca-Cola bottle you have would have been used for a ginger ale or something similar.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 3, 2014)

Morb Thanks for the information ... 
I agree that the green shoulder embossed Coca Cola bottles most likely contained Ginger Ale or a similar flavor. Ginger Ale was a very popular drink in the 1930s and 1940s and there is ample evidence to support that Coca Cola bottlers were distributing it. Even though none of the dozen or so examples of this particular bottle that I've seen contain a paper label, I suspect that most if not all of them did at one time. And because none of them apparently have a city or state embossed on them, this leads me to believe they were somewhat generic and that each Coca Cola bottler who used them had their own label. I have tried to find one with an intact label but so far have been unable to.

I'm currently working on a side-project to see how many different Coca Cola related Ginger Ale paper labels I can find and will post that information when I'm done. I already found several but having difficulty finding 6 and 7 ounce examples - most are 12 ounce or larger.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 8, 2014)

Update regarding the embossed shoulder, green Coca Cola bottles / paper labels ... I have been unable to find a 1930s-1940s 6 Ounce - 6 1/2 Ounce - 7 Ounce paper label with Coca Cola Bottling Company on it. Everything I have found so far is 12 Ounce or larger.


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## Uncle_Jarvis (Feb 10, 2014)

Check out this one. . .  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Frisco-City-Alabama-ALA-Coca-cola-Bottle-Straight-Emerald-Vintage-Art-Deco-/171239236567?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255 I would personally avoid that "questionable" bottle.. I believe its the same seller that also had the name bamabottles on ebay.. Most of his bottles are all improperly tumbled and essentially destroyed.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 10, 2014)

U_J Thanks for the information. 
I finally found some 7 1/2 ounce Coca Cola Bottling Company paper labels that I believe are from the 1930s. The brand is Ladroc Beverages from Grays Lake, Illinois. The most common of these labels appears to be the Lemon flavor but I have found other flavors as well, including ...

Lime
Cherry
Orange
Root Beer 

I am not 100% certain if the green, shoulder embossed Coca Cola bottles were used by Ladroc but intend to do more research and try and determine that. So far I have been unable to find very much information about Ladroc, but I did find some scant references dating the brand anywhere between about 1910 and 1940.

I can't imagine them putting Cherry, Orange and Root Beer in a green bottle, but the Lemon and the Lime flavors could have been.

If anyone has detailed information and/or any pictures related to Ladroc Carbonated Beverages, please share it with us. By the way, the Ladroc Root Beer label is from Chicago, Illinois and not Grays Lake.

I'm not certain what type of bottles the Ladroc labels and caps went on, but they definitely went on "something."


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 10, 2014)

And here's the Ladroc Root Beer label from Chicago ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Feb 10, 2014)

Correction ... I posted the wrong Ladroc Lemon label. I posted the *1 Pint 7 1/2 Ounce *label instead and will have to go back and find the 7 1/2 Ounce label I found earlier but that I did not save a picture of because it was of poor quality.


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## epackage (Feb 10, 2014)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> I can't imagine them putting Cherry, Orange and Root Beer in a green bottle, but the Lemon and the Lime flavors could have been.



I wouldn't be surprised if they did Bob, there's a Paterson bottler from that same time period who bottled EVERYTHING, grape, cherry, lemon, celery, root beer, etc.... in green or amber bottles.


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## lblackvelvet (Feb 14, 2014)

Uncle_Jarvis said:
			
		

> Check out this one. . .  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Frisco-City-Alabama-ALA-Coca-cola-Bottle-Straight-Emerald-Vintage-Art-Deco-/171239236567?&_trksid=p2056016.m2516.l5255 I would personally avoid that "questionable" bottle.. I believe its the same seller that also had the name bamabottles on ebay.. Most of his bottles are all improperly tumbled and essentially destroyed.


Hello Uncle_ Jarvis     I am new at tumbling bottles and I would like to know your input on what is an improperly tumbled bottle so I don't make the same mistake.  Thank you very much for any advise.  Kevin...


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