# ULYSSES S. GRANT and the KELLY'S and THE OLD CABIN BITTERS



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

I have done some research on the OLD CABIN BITTERS Pat.1863,and the KELLY'S OLD CABIN BITTERS Pat.1863. 
 What I have found further cements the idea of how much rarer the OLD CABIN BITTERS is then the KELLYS. 
 John H. Garnhart (sometimes spelled â€œGarnhardâ€). Garnhart began a wholesale liquor business in about 1854. 
  He was a whiskey man by trade first.In the city directory of 1860 Garnhart & Connor, (John H. Garnhart and Benson G. Connor), domestic liquors, 188 N. 2d 
 Garnhart John H., (Garnhart & Connor), . 100 Elm  Among the products he was making by 1862 were the OLD CABIN BITTERS. He partnered in 1863  
 with James B. Kelly of New York. This collaboration made the famous Old Cabin Bitters. Within one month of operation the OLD CABIN BITTERS  name was changed to 
 the KELLYS OLD CABIN BITTERS.Their products were marketed all over the United States.They were bottled in New York and St. Louis. The bottles were made in the  
 Whitney Glass works in Glassboro New Jersey.In 1870 John Garnhart  was issued a patent on his bottle.It seems another bottle very similar to his turned up early in 1870. 
 This bottle was embossed with the following HOLTZERMANN'S  PATENT STOMACH BITTERS.The bottle like Garnhart and Kellys was in the shape of and very similar in  
 detail to their bottle.The Kellys OLD CABIN BITTERS lasted until 1874 when quite a few bitters and whiskey manufactures went out of business. 
 So there it is the story behind these Cabin Bitters.With the OLD CABIN BITTERS bottles being made for only a month tells why they are so rare.Besides the one I own , 
 I have only seen one,and it was sold at auction 3 years ago and it brought 12,000 dollars for the seller.Ring and Ham list it as extremely rare so does Watson 6 stars 
 The Kellys Old Cabin Bitters aren't to shabby either regularly bringing 2500 to 5000 dollars and more for extreme colors.Here is a nice article with mention of these  
 bitters and various whiskey manufacturers and the trouble people in the whiskey and spirits trade got into during Grants Presidency. 


 Thank you Jack Sullivan for a wonderful article.  



 ULYSSES S. GRANT 
 His Whiskey History 
 By Jack Sullivan 
 Special to Bottles and Extras 

 Much has been said and written about Ulysses S. Grant, the great Civil War general and later two-term President. In his story the subject of whiskey 
 comes up frequently. History tells us that he had a considerable problem with alcohol throughout much of his life.Despite that affliction, he clearly was 
 the Unionâ€™s most effective military leader and he remains one of the most interesting and impressive figures of American history.Grantâ€™s particular brand  
 of whiskey has become a matter of historical interest because of a purported comment by President Lincoln during a crucial point in the Civil War.  
 The story appears first to have been told by Col.Alexander K. McClure, a Lincoln friend,in his 1901 book, â€œAbe Lincolnâ€™s Yarns and Stories.â€ It goes this way: 
 Lincoln was not a man of impulse, and did nothing upon the spur of the moment; action with him was the result of deliberation and study. He took 

 nothing for granted; he judged men by their performances and not their speech.If a general lost battles, Lincoln lost confidence in him; if a commander 
 was successful, Lincoln put him where he would be of the most service to the country.â€Grant is a drunkard,â€ asserted powerful and influential politicians to the 
 President at the White House time after time; â€œhe is not himself half the time; he canâ€™t be relied upon, it is a shame to have such a man in command of an army.â€ 
 â€So Grant gets drunk, does he?â€ queried Lincoln, addressing himself to one of the particularly active detractors of the soldier. â€œYes, he does, and I can prove it,â€ 
  was the reply.Well,â€ returned Lincoln, with the faintest suspicion of a twinkle in his eye, â€œyou neednâ€™t waste your time getting proof; you just find out, to oblige 
 me, what brand of whiskey Grant drinks,because I want to send a barrel of it to each one of my generals.â€That ended the crusade against Grant,so far as the  
 question of drinking was concerned.While the validity of the Lincoln story has been challenged by more recent historians, the controversy has not dampened  
 speculation through the years about what type of strong drink Grant actually did favor. It is clear that he was partial to whiskey. In Grantâ€™s day,however, whiskey  

 was a potable that covered a wide spectrum of flavors,ingredients, and differing alcoholic content. Moreover, at that time brand names were just beginning to be 
 advertised and known. Among the earliest was Old Crow, a Kentucky bourbon.Old Crow makes a claim In his book, The Social History of Bourbon, Gerald Carson  
 recounts that during one night during the long and stressful siege of Vicksburg, General Grant said to his aides: â€œSee here, before we go to bed, letâ€™s have a nightcap.  
 Stewart [an aide] has got some prime Old Crow whiskey around here somewhere.â€ Stewart got the bottle and then watched as Grant filled a large goblet with  
 Old Crow whiskey and tossed it down. â€It was a whopping big drink...â€Old Crow has always trumpeted its historical connections including depicting important  
 figures as customers. The ad shown here purports to show Texas hero Sam Houston sharing its bourbon with famous orator Daniel Webster.Old Crow also claimed  
 Grant as a customer. Most biographers of Grant are skeptical about such claims and have decided that it is impossible to know what brand of whiskey Grant as  
 general or President actually favored. Biographers similarly are unsure about the role Grant as President may have played in what came to be known as â€œThe Great  
 Whiskey Ring.â€ 

 A National Scandal The exposure of the Great Whiskey Ring of 1875 rocked Washington D.C. and indeed the entire country like few national 
 scandals before or since. On May 10,Federal agents stormed into the offices of nine St. Louis distilleries, seized illicit whiskey and box loads of records, and 
 arrested their proprietors. Simultaneous arrests occurred in Cincinnati, Milwaukee and Chicago. Ultimately, indictments were issued against 240 whiskey-makers, 
 government officials and others; 110 were found guilty. Most of them went to jail.Thus ended a massive scheme to defraud the U.S. of excise taxes on distilled spirits. 
 The fallout from the raids would roil the Nation for months and reach right into the White House. Shown here is a bottle shaped to look like a two story log cabin with a 
 peaked roof. It is a Kellyâ€™s Old Cabin Bitters . Examples have sold to bottle collectors in recent months at prices approaching $2,000. Kelly was James B.Kelly of New York,  
 a whiskey man, who is shown on a self-produced â€œproprietaryâ€revenue stamp. This is an ironic touch since it was an attempt to evade federal revenues on alcohol that lay 
 at the heart of the Great Whiskey Ring.Kelly also had a St. Louis address and a partnership there with a man named John H. Garnhart (sometimes spelled â€œGarnhardâ€).  
 Garnhart began a wholesale liquor business in about 1854. He was a â€œrectifierâ€ who took raw spirits, added other ingredients, and sold them as whiskey.Among the  
 spirituous products he apparently concocted with Kellyâ€™s collaboration was Old Cabin Bitters.  

 When the May 10 raid occurred, Garnhart was one of those arrested.  
 His company disappeared forever from St. Louis city directories. For one year, Adler, Furst & Co. was listed in directories as â€œsuccessor to J. H. Garnhart & Co.â€,  
 then it too disappeared. My research has failed to determine the fate of Kelly but his Cabin Bitters brand vanished about the same time.General Babcock and â€œThe Sylphâ€ 
 The â€œfemme fatalâ€ of the Great Whiskey Ring was a St. Louis woman of easy virtue named Louise â€œLouâ€ Hawkins, who ultimately would become known to millions of  
 Americans simply as â€œThe Sylph.â€ This was the name given to her by one of the conspirators, General Orville E. Babcock , who also happened to be a White House aide, 
 personal secretary to President Grant.A contemporary observer described Ms.Hawkins this way: â€œHer form was petit and yet withal, a plumpness and development  
 which made her a being whose tempting luscious deliciousness was irresistible.... She was the essence of grace, distilled from the buds of perfection,and with a tongue  
 on which the oil of vivacity and seduction never ceased running; she was indeed a sylph and a siren, whose presence was like the flavor of the poppy mixed with the 
 perfumes of Araby.â€ While she might not have lived up to this extravagant description, one of her few extant likenesses indicates a certain appeal. 

 General Babcock found her enchanting. In St. Louis to collect a share of kickbacks from local whiskey men,he met her through a friend and the two almost immediately  
 began an affair.Babcockâ€™s visits to St. Louis to pick up graft payments for himself and, some have alleged, the Republican Party, became more frequent. He may even  
 have gathered a few bottles of contraband whiskey and given them to the President. Back in Washington,he repeatedly referred to â€œThe Sylphâ€ in messages to cronies  
 that eventually became public through court records and titillated the Nation.Because Babcock was a close colleague of Grant, the press and public began to 
 ask: â€œWhat did the President know and when did he know it?â€ â€” the same questions that later would fuel speculation about Richard Nixon in the Watergate scandal. 

 President Grant Testifies he was in his second term as President when news broke about the Whiskey Ring. His Secretary of the Treasury, Benjamin H. Bristow  
 discovered that in St. Louis alone at least $1.2 million in tax revenues annually were not accounted for. The total cost of the scam to the U.S. approached $3 million a 
 year at a time when fifty cents would buy a hefty meal. Knowing that the corruption involved Republic political appointees, Bristow discussed the investigation with  
 Grant who told him to proceed with vigor without regard to party labels or government positions.Grantâ€™s response likely occurred before he was aware of Babcockâ€™s  
 involvement in the Great Whiskey Ring. Always loyal to his staff, Grant later agreed to be deposed in Babcockâ€™s graft case. He was willing to go to St. Louis to testify but  
 was persuaded by presidential advisors to answer questions from prosecution and defense lawyers only in the White House.Even so, it was the first and only time in 
 American history that a sitting American President has testified in a criminal case. 

 Grantâ€™s usually good memory seemed to fail him at times during the examination 
 but he was strong in his defense of General Babcockâ€™s character and conduct.The Presidentâ€™s testimony clearly influenced the St. Louis jury, which ultimately acquitted  
 Babcock and then adjourned to a nearby saloon to celebrate. Grant subsequently appointed his erstwhile secretary to the post of inspector of lighthouses in the South. 
 Babcock later drowned while on an inspection tour in Florida. Grant never admitted any involvement in the Great Whiskey Ring.American Heroes on Whiskey If Grant  
 had lived just a little longer,however, he could have imbibed a whiskey with his own name on it. 

 American whiskey distillers and distributors commonly have applied the 
 names of famous national figures to their products. Among such â€œnameâ€ brands have been Ben Franklin, Daniel Boone, Henry Clay, Sam Houston, Daniel Webster and 
 Paul Revere.After the Civil War, both Southern and Northern generals were honored with their names on whiskey bottles. For example, General Stonewall Jackson, a 
 Confederate leader killed in battle, had two whiskeys named for him. One, as shown in an ad here, was â€œGeneral Stonewall,â€ a product of the B.B.Davies Company of  
 New York City.â€œStonewall Jacksonâ€ whiskey by contrast was a Southern product, from the H. Myers Company of Savannah, Georgia.Northern General Philip Sheridan  
 could claim his name on three whiskeys: In 1876 the Bryce Smith Company of New York City registered its Sheridan Whiskey brand. Subsequently the Joseph Davis Co. 
 of Minneapolis applied to the U.S.government in 1906 for exclusive use of the generalâ€™s name for â€œSheridan Rye,â€apparently ignoring the Sheridan Rye brand being  
 merchandised by M. Goldsmith Company of Louisville. Even the ill-fated General George Custer was honored with â€œCusterâ€™s Reserve Whiskeyâ€ by the Herrscher-Samuel Co.  
 of San Francisco.â€œGrant 63â€ Whiskey Perhaps because of Grantâ€™s checkered whiskey history, distillers did not rush to name one after him. I can find only one.That was  
 â€œGrant 63,â€ a brand of the Joseph P. Spang & Co. of Boston. The company first appears in Boston city directories in 1892 and from the first Spang had an eye to naming his 
 whiskey after famous people. Among his numerous brands were â€œRevereâ€ for the famous Revolutionary War rider and â€œQueen Wilhemina.â€ for the reigning monarch of Holland.  

 Spang also saw the possibilities in naming a whiskey after Grant, one that also would celebrate the year 1863 when the General won some of his most impressive victories. 
 Unfortunately, Grant died in 1885 and was not around to taste â€œhisâ€ whiskey.The label on the bottle and items such as Spangâ€™s give-away shot glasses featured Grant, one of  
 the best horsemen America ever produced, astride a prancing steed There are loops of braided rope on either side and curlicues on the base. The glass also shows a frosted shield 
 that holds a JPS monogram â€” representing Joseph P. Spang. A Spang tip trayin bright red and green replicated a similar motif,adding the words â€œHighest...Grade.â€A particularly 
 interesting ad for â€œGrant 63â€ appeared on a blotter given away by the company. It shows a bellhop with a bottle of the whiskey on a tray with two shot glasses and praises the  
 product as â€œThe Perfect WhiskeyThe blotter also contains a quote from Mark Twain about Prohibition: â€œThey have just invented a method of making Brandy out 
 of sawdust! Now, what chance would prohibition have when a man can take a ripsaw and get drunk with a fence rail or with the shingles on his roof or with the leg of his  
 kitchen table....â€The admixture of Twain and Grant is appropriate since the two were close friends and the author published the former Presidentâ€™s autobiography. The spoof on 
 Prohibition, however, failed to stem the temperance tide in the U.S. and in 1918 the Joseph P. Spang Company was forced to close its doors. With its demise â€œGrant 63â€  
 became one of hundreds of forever extinct whiskeys â€” thus leaving us no closer to learning what really was Grantâ€™s preferred brand.*

 A picture of the three bottles,left to right KELLYS OLD CABIN BITTERS, HOLTZERMANNS,PATENT STOMACH BITTERS,and OLD CABIN BITTERS


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

Picture number 2


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

Picture number 3


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

Picture number 4


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

Picture number 5 the bottoms of each bottlethe mold similar to the BOOZ  treadle mold.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

The KELLY'S roof.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

The HOLTZERMANN'S roof.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

The OLD CABIN roof


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

The Logs and window detail in The KELLY'S


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

The Logs and Window detail in the HOLTZERMANN'S.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

I would like to thank BRIAN S. for his help early on when I had purchased these three years ago as I was still green on the rarity and the value of these bottles.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

Here is a label for the Kellys.  

http://www.rdhinstl.com/mm/rs153.htm


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

Does anyone else at this forum collect these.Has anyone else ever seen the OLD CABIN BITTERS before.
 I remember just one being sold at one of the major glass houses for around 12,000 dollars.


----------



## RED Matthews (Aug 6, 2010)

Hello Steve, Thanks are in order even though we don't have a bottle to compare the characteristics to.  I hope every serious bottle collector appreciates you work, as much as I do. RED Matthews


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 6, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: lobeycat
> 
> See bigger is *not* always better


 
 I have been telling my wife the same thing lobeycat,but she's not buying it.[]
 Red, I am trying to work my schedule to come up and see you still this summer.


----------



## cyberdigger (Aug 7, 2010)

You kids are soo CUTE.. wow I missed being here.. hey anybody seen my beer?

 Great presentation, Stev-oe  you are  OTB 110%  let nobody tell you otherwise ..lest ye be scrutinized into a disturbing state of paranoia..


----------



## Steve/sewell (Aug 7, 2010)

Rich (Lobeycat)I forgot to mention I did remember you in my will. Your right up there after my immediate family!!!!
 Enough already here it is Rich

 The Last Will And Testament of Stephen B. Atkison
 "I Stephen B. Atkison, being of sound mind do hereby declare this to be my last will and testament. 

 To my daughter Sheena, my first born and the best realestate agent in the United States (and at the age of 13 thought John Wilkes Booth assaniated both President Kennedy and President Lincoln,I told her see what happens when they parole these killers they kill again)!!  I leave one million dollars tax free. 

 To my daughter Bridgette who was wonderful and always helped her mother with the dishes, is still attending college and is not married yet because she is too particular, I leave one million dollars. (psst Bridgette has washed a dish in her 18 years on this earth)

 To my loving wife Judy I leave (whatever is not in her name already) plus an additinal two million dollars. Enjoy, sweetheart. Enjoy. Promise you won,t hook up with the college clerk boy at the WAWA convenience store who falls all over you!! you Cougar you!!

 To my son Stephen a great Ice Hockey player and good kid I leave 1 million and all my tools and cars . psst keep an eye on your Mom for me.......................

 To the Heritage glass museum all of my best bottles except two, the first ones I ever found and hold to my heart till the day I die ....................................

 The last two bottles go to my friend Mr. Lobeycat....................................Here's to you Rich 

 My wife didnt think this was to  funny.I did Though[][]


----------



## MarBen (Oct 20, 2010)

My father found 8 of these bottles back in the 60's.  Have 2 remaining, one with no damage and one with damage shown.  Have no idea how to sell this bottle or what kind of value it has with it being damaged.  The damage is only on the neck.  Any ideas?  Not the best pictures but hopefully someone can help me.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Oct 20, 2010)

Hi Mary, I sent you an email this morning.Great looking bottle you have there.


----------



## westernbittersnut (Oct 20, 2010)

I collect high end western bitters and I have seen 2 of the Old Cabin Bitters bottles in collections out here in California.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Oct 21, 2010)

They are great bottles Warren if you dont have one. I believe the one being asked about may go for sale.They are super nice people and their father had found 8 of these in Illinois as Mary stated!! As I thought about that more today it may have been one of the most incredible bottle/dig finds ever.Imagine finding one cabin bitters let alone 8!!Mind boggling.


----------



## wolffbp (Oct 21, 2010)

Wow, it wasn't even a cork top Bromo.  That's cold.  but funny []


----------



## glass man (Oct 22, 2010)

ALL I WANT STEVE MAN IS A INDIAN QUEEN...THING IS I ALREADY GOT ONE IN NINA GIRL MY SCOTTISH JEWISH CHOCTOW INDIAN QUEEN!


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 14, 2011)

I picked up this very rare bitters this evening from eBay.I am looking for a good glass repair person to fix a large chipped area on the lip.If anyone knows someone personally or coiuld recommend someone they heard has a good reputation please let me know as it would be very much appreciated.It looks good from this angle........................


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 14, 2011)

..........................but from over here..........OUCH!!![]


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 14, 2011)

The glass is clean.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 14, 2011)

The bottle was found in a saloon wall according to the seller so it supposedly was never buried.Also the seller said someone had dropped this in the 1970s,had they not dropped this it woiuld have been a 12 to 20,000 dollar bottle easily.These are much more rare then the Kellys bitters which are identicle.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 25, 2011)

Now that I have two Old Cabin Bitters bottles I compared the two bottles side by side.On my first bottle on one of the larger lower paper panel areas there were raised blotches that almost looked like hives not bubbles.Well when this second bottle arrived it had the same markings in the same spot so this defect is a mold issue present exactly the same on each bottle.I had originaly thought it was just on this one bottle cold mold ripple effect.The Cabin is slightly racked to one side also on each bottle telling me again this is a mold issue and not a quality control one.

 I have studied the Kellys Old Cabin bitters compared to the Old Cabin Bitters and I can assure you they are in fact although strikingly similar to very different bottles in a lot of small details.The lettering on the Kellys is larger and cruder,the word PATENT in the angle of the roof peak is laid out differently on each bottle.When I had originally aquired the Kellys and then the Old Cabin I had thought that simply a slug plate change had occured and that was the difference.This is not true as the Letters on each bottle are completely diffrent from each other.The log sizes and fine detail are different on each bottle also.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 25, 2011)

Outlined in blue are the two areas on each bottle.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 26, 2011)

Here is a group shot left to right. Left- The Kellys Old Cabin Bitters,Center- Darker Old Cabin Bitters,Right- Lighter Old Cabin Bitters.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 26, 2011)

I love the Booz bottles but I have got to hand it to the mold maker on these exquisite detail in the logs.I give the nod to the Booz bottle on the shingled roof though.Imagine if the Old Cabin Bottles had the shingled roof like the Booz bottle,and the other way around imagine the Booz bottle with log detail like the Old Cabin Bottles.Later today or tommorrow I will add more detail about how I know that the Old Cabin Bitters and the Kellys Bitters used two completely different molds in their manufacture.It has been suggested that the use of a slug plate switch was all that was needed to go from the Kellys to the Old Cabin.There are at least 15 differences between the bottles some glaring others minute.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

I have posted this same bottle in the New to my collection area of the forum earlier today.Ijust received my latest Log cabin bitters bottle.This on is in a rare color as it is mostly a golden Olive  yellow amber color, with light amber and a little orange amber mixed into the areas that are usually thicker on the bottle.This bottle is 90 percent of the time in various shades of darker amber.This bottle has one semi major area of damage which is an inch and a half inch long but very thin and hardly noticeable crack on the lower roof area.An in the making V shaped area very tiny on the lip and some hazing and clouding slightly on the inside.There are also some scratches but that is it. These bottles are rare in any color but are listed as extremely rare in colors other then amber including the color on this bottle.Carlyn and Ring list it as scarce in amber and very rare in the following colors,Yellow,Yellow Olive,Yellow Green, and Deep Olive Green.I have two of these Kellys Old Cabin Bitters now and I think I am going to attempt my first color run in my collection.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

2.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

3.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

4.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

5.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

6.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

7.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

8.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

9.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

10.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

11.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

12.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

13.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

14.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

15.Here is a side by side comparison of the Kellys Old Cabin Bitters On the left and the Old Cabin bitters on the right.There are quite a few differences in the bottles when viewed cautiously.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 28, 2011)

Looking down at the two bottles you can see the Old Cabin bitters on the right is slightly wider then the Kellys.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 29, 2011)

17.I took some more pictures in the sun a bit ago.This bottle is really yellow in the corners of the cabin and the roof.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 29, 2011)

18.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 29, 2011)

19.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 29, 2011)

20.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 29, 2011)

21.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 29, 2011)

22.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Mar 31, 2011)

The Kellys Old Cabin Bitters bottles I have now determined were made in at least 3 different molds.There are two 1863 versions and one 1870 version now deffinatley accounted for.The embossing on the roofs of the two 1863 versions are completley different,with one version having large sharp somwwhat straight lettering while the other has various sized letters and they are layed out very crooked.It can also be easily seen when comparing the two bottles that one of the Kellys molds has larger logs and is taller to the roof line.The roof is another area that the two Kellys molds differ.One is wider, one is steeper,and one is pointier at the highest point across the ridge of the roof.More then likley the 1870 version had it's own mold also.Here is something to think about,I think the Kellys mold was plagerised and that is why John Garnhart applied for and recieved a patent on the cabin Design in 1870.It is very likely that some of the Kellys were being copied back east were they were made before being shipped to St. Louis.A skilled mold maker could easily copy this bottle.

 The Old Cabin Bitters on the other hand used an identicle mold as there are no diffrences between the two bottles.On these bottles better attention to detail was paid because everything about the bottle is a cut above the Kellys.The Embossing is neat and Symetricle,The applied tops are neatly laid on,and the glass in general is heavier then the Kellys.both the Kellys Old Cabin Bitters and the Old Cabin Bitters were made using a tredle mold.Although much Rarer then the Kellys in total numbers accounted for the Old Cabin Bitters were only available in Various shades of amber.The Kellys was made in more vibrant colors making it a an attractive bottle to collect.All in all these are great bottles and I wish others would post their bottles if they are members here.I would love to see them. I will post pictures later this week or during the weekend showing the differences between the two molds.


----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 15, 2012)

Steve,
 Here's something to make your mouth water this morning. I seen this absolutely amazing bottle at another collectors house and took a photo of it. I wish I could say it was mine and would _love_ to have a chance at one of these one day. I've never seen the bottle until that day and what a color! I would imagine it was also in amber but who knows. This thing is rarer than an honest politician. I know you've done alot of research with Garnhart & Kelly, and love reading what you post.

 ~Tim


----------



## epackage (Sep 15, 2012)

Beautiful stuff, and as always very informative Steve...


----------



## andy volkerts (Sep 15, 2012)

[] That Garnhart and Kelley is what old glass is really all about, beautiful colors and designs,  crudity,  and rareness, that bottle has it all. Thanks for posting it.........


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 15, 2012)

Tim that is an extremely rare bottle,thanks for posting it. It was probably from the 1859 to 1862 time period before the bitters bottles were made by the two of them. Ill see what I can find out about it.


----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 28, 2012)

Steve,

 I did some digging and ABA sold one of these back in December of 2003 in amber. Here is the description, although Jeff accidently misspelled Garnhart.

 ~Tim

 The picture is small but its the only one I could find or have ever seen.






 Lot 57

   CARNHART & KELLY ST. LOUIS Mo. 9" Applied top, smooth base. A nice example with some decent overall crudity, this is the first example we've seen or sold. Found in a Midwestern fort, we're told this is a rare St. Louis bottle. An interesting one it is, it has arched panels with embossing on the two ends. For the St. Louis collector, this has most of it's crudity around the shoulder. About Mint, here's a rare and pretty bottle.  $ 2,000


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

> ABA sold one of these back in December of 2003


 Hi Tim,
  I had that sale saved in a PDF format here are the pictures.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

2.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

3.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

Tim are you watching this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/280979413484


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

2.


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

3.


----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 28, 2012)

Sweet,

 That's much better than the photo I had lol

 Yeah i'm watching it but the Home's are fairly easy to find my friend. []

 ~Tim


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

4. Sorry about the picture size on the first two...[8|]you can see them from 20,000 feet[8D]


----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 28, 2012)

That's a really nice one tho!

 ~Tim


----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 28, 2012)

That's ok, I just sat on the other side of the room. []




> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 
> 4. Sorry about the picture size on the first two...[8|]you can see them from 20,000 feet[8D]


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 
> Tim are you watching this one. http://www.ebay.com/itm/280979413484


 The rare Demi-John Bitters ..........[8D]


----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 28, 2012)




----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 28, 2012)

They was supposed to be closer in size [8D]

 Hows that for droolers!

 ~Tim


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

Here you go Tim side by side.....And viewable from Earth[8D]


----------



## bottlekid76 (Sep 28, 2012)

Perfecto Steve!


----------



## Steve/sewell (Sep 28, 2012)

Or this Tim Seen from a scope rifle in a deer stand[]


----------

