# seller disclosing bottle condition



## willieboy (Jun 18, 2013)

There are several things that can happen to an old bottle after it is unearthed.  Cleaning/tumbling is one of the most common steps one takes in restoring the bottle to as close to original condition as possible.  Results can vary depending on the glass, and condition of the dug bottle.  Regardless I think it is fair to say that tumbling by its nature removes some glass during the cleaning process.  It is common to see bottles that have undergone some degree of cleaning to have this disclosed by a seller.  My hat is off to the seller that makes this sort of disclosure to a potential buyer.  Do you think it is proper to disclose that a bottle you put up for sale that it has been tumbled?

 Another issue recently came to my attention that I would appreciate other collectors' opinions.  There are a couple of e-bay listings that offer rather common Florida sodas.  The catch is these bottles are some shade of amber as a result of being irradiated.  The bottles are advertised as rare and the shade of amber is described.  The listing does not state anywhere that the bottles have been radiated.  Do you think a seller has an obligation to disclose that a bottle has been through a process that changes its original color?

 Looking at it from the seller's side, whats the harm in radiating a $5.00 bottle if the change means it becomes attractive at $20.00 to someone?  It is truely getting to be a "buyer beware environment".  One has to wonder how many of the rare color high end bottles are the original color of the glass.

 Our hobby has no set standards to guide us as to what should be disclosed.  In the end that could be bad for the hobby and your investment in a bottle you pay an arm and a leg for because it is a seemingly unique color.

 Thanks for your opinions on these issues.


----------



## Xaquin (Jun 18, 2013)

I've never tumbled a bottle, but I always notify a buyer that they are buying a dug bottle that has been cleaned with small brass clippings and bar keepers friend on the inside and soap and a soft bristle toothbrush on the outside.

 Just keeping it honest =)


----------



## epackage (Jun 18, 2013)

Nuking the bottle and selling it as rare is a scumbag move, if you know your selling a bottle that has been tumbled you should disclose that info as well. The hobby doesn't need a written set of rules or standards, these are common sense issues that the scumbags avoid hoping to put more money in their greedy pockets. I agree the buyer should have an idea what they are spending their money on, but if it were up to me I'd punch every bottle nuker that tries to decieve buyers in the face...


----------



## willieboy (Jun 18, 2013)

If you go to ebay and search under Fla bottles, you will find a Hanne Bros/Jacksonville, Fla crown top and a Kornahrens and Wedding/Jacksonville, Fla. hutch soda.  Both are common sodas in their original aqua.  Now they are amber and "rare".  I hope the seller changes the description.  I know better but someone else may not.  If the fact is honestly disclosed then it is clearly up to the buyer.  Of course the problem of having something like this in circulation is not the best thing in the world.


----------



## surfaceone (Jun 18, 2013)

> in the face...


 
 Huevos.


----------



## cacarpetbagger (Jun 18, 2013)

Yes the seller should disclose any alteration to a bottle including tumbling, irradiating, polished chips and resin repairs.


----------



## baltbottles (Jun 18, 2013)

As serious collector. I highly dislike tumbled bottles and I will not buy them. I'd rather have a dug stained bottle then one that was altered by a non natural process. I don't like my antiques messed with plain and simple. If i bought a bottle advertised as mint and got a bottle that was tumbled I'd return it. So yes advertising that a bottle was tumbled or altered in any way is the correct thing to do.

 Chris


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 18, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 That was quite a film.. the Animal House of its time..


----------



## ILUV2DIG (Jun 19, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> Nuking the bottle and selling it as rare is a scumbag move, if you know your selling a bottle that has been tumbled you should disclose that info as well. The hobby doesn't need a written set of rules or standards, these are common sense issues that the scumbags avoid hoping to put more money in their greedy pockets. I agree the buyer should have an idea what they are spending their money on, but if it were up to me I'd punch every bottle nuker that tries to decieve buyers in the face...


 

 I agree...it is TOTAL DECIET to nuke a bottle then outright lie just to make a quick buck. People that cheat others like that should be "slapped around."


----------



## FitSandTic (Jun 19, 2013)

I have been tumbling bottles for over ten years and I always tell potential buyers if a bottle they are interested in has been tumbled. Like Chris said there are collectors who do not like the process, and from my experience  it does give bottles a different type of gloss than a bottle that is in mint condition. I do not clean all of my finds that are stained especially my pontiled items. I clean crown tops and milk bottles for most part and most guys that collect those types of bottles like them clean as possible. Nuking bottles and selling them to unsuspecting customers is just wrong. It makes me sick to my stomach to watch these practices on ebay. It is sad because most of the people selling these bottles are collectors and should know better.


----------



## blobbottlebob (Jun 19, 2013)

Nice replies everyone. I agree that any alteration that you know of as a seller - and any damage as well - should properly be disclosed.


----------



## willieboy (Jun 20, 2013)

Your comments and opinions mirror my position on this issue.  My only other comment based on my limited experience is tumbling a bottle is actually a reference to a process that that can vary widely in the scope of what is done.  The use of abrasives can range from course 120/200 grit to teak chips for an extra fine polishing effect.  Skill in the use of material and eqipment is directly related to quality of the finished product.  Beauty is the eye of the beholder for sure.  Certain bottles also are better candidates for the proper dose of a cleaning process.  Excessive ginding is not attractive to me and I would rather have the bottle in dug condition.  On the other hand the removal of a light stain with extra fine polishing compound can enhance whittling and clarity.

 As a collector, I would not consider paying a premium for a radiated bottle.


----------



## druggistnut (Jun 25, 2013)

We don't allow nuked bottles on tables at our show. That's what most of us think of them.
 Yes, not disclosing is a "used car" tactic, too. We all know what most people think of used car salesmen.
 Bill


----------



## mal (Jun 25, 2013)

How on earth do you _nuke_ a bottle???  ps,  not looking for advice to do it, lol.


----------



## FitSandTic (Jun 25, 2013)

Willieboy I am not against tumbling bottles if they are a good candidate for the process. I do not like when people use their tumblers as scratch removers though. As far as nuked bottles I would like to see all bottle shows regulate the sale of them. People have the right to spend their money on any type of bottles they want, but nuked bottles should be properly marked as such. My feelings are I do not even want to see them but I try to see it from both sides. Being dishonest is always a bad practice especially in a hobby with so many good people!


----------



## splante (Jun 27, 2013)

I agree with baltbottles 100% would never buy a tumbled or tumble a bottle. clean it as best I can and thats great/ Ebay should be shutting down these con-artist....but IF they are disclosing and people still buy then more power to them


> ORIGINAL:  baltbottles
> 
> As serious collector. I highly dislike tumbled bottles and I will not buy them. I'd rather have a dug stained bottle then one that was altered by a non natural process.


----------



## chosi (Jun 27, 2013)

> ORIGINAL: mal
> How on earth do you _nuke_ a bottle??? ps, not looking for advice to do it, lol.


 To "nuke" a bottle means to irradiate it, i.e. expose it to strong radiation.  As I understand it, you basically put it into an X-Ray machine and bombard it with X-Rays.  I don't know how you gain access to an X-ray machine - it's not something you'd want to have in your house, as they're pretty dangerous.


----------



## FitSandTic (Jun 28, 2013)

Splante you really believe people who tumble bottles are con-artists. I understand not liking tumbled bottles and not wanting to purchase them, but calling us con-artists is a little extreme especially because I always let people know if a bottle has been tumbled. Most people do not mind having there bottles tumbled as a matter of fact. I look at tumbling as a restoration more than an alteration and in many cases adds value to a bottle rather than taking away from it. But you are entitled to your opinion.


----------



## surfaceone (Jun 29, 2013)

Hello Travis,

 I'm pretty sure that Steve is speaking of the "nukers."


----------



## FitSandTic (Jun 29, 2013)

I  figured that may have been what was intended. You never know though.


----------



## treeguyfred (Jul 1, 2013)

Most irradiated bottles have spent time in a UV sterilizer that most doctors and dentists will have in their office, or used to have, I'm told that there are now regulations regarding this and there are special services that perform this for Dr.s now.


----------



## suzanne (Aug 19, 2013)

Overtumbling leaves bottle with an un-natural windowpane surface.  In fact I just looked at a couple thread's on this page that are perfect examples of what can happen.  Don't go crazy with tumbling and take a good thing too far.  

 Purple bottles are a good example of what can happen if you live close to a nuclear reactor. That's why you should not live by them.  What is a safe distance to live from a nuke?  300 miles, so if one blows up you have time to powder your face and race to your car before the radiation cloud arrive's.


----------



## willieboy (Aug 29, 2013)

I don't find tumbling a bottle in itself as dishonest or necessarily a detraction from the bottle.  Afterall, a tumble using an abrasive softer than the glass removes only stains, dirt and grime.  I consider it a more agressive form of cleaning than a bottle brush and Barkeeper's friend but that's all.  In many cses it enchances the beauty of the bottle in the eye of this beholder.  Bottles in this tumbled condition are far different than those bottles that have been tumbled with aggressive abrasives.  In most cases no one needs to disclose these bottles have been tumbled and in my humble opinion this sort of treatment devalues the bottle for collector purposes.

 In Florida most of the irradiation is done by folks that have access to sterlization facilities that use radiation.  A lot of chicken for grocery stores run through this sort of process.  Some say the change on color is temporary and reversion will occur if placed in the sunlight.  I don't know.  The injustice is when irradiated bottles are passed off as rare colors to the unsuspecting.

 I pick and choose the bottles I clean for my own collection.  Some bottles respond nicely to a polish some are just not candidates for the process.


----------



## GuntherHess (Aug 29, 2013)

well said  willieboy^


----------

