# sad day in America



## splante (Dec 14, 2012)

My thought and prayers go out to the family and freinds  of the victims of this senseless act of violence on innocent chrildren and adults ..maybe 18 to 27 dead..WTH is going on in this country


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## towhead (Dec 14, 2012)

The sick f***s need to stay home and shoot themselves!  Julie


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## epackage (Dec 14, 2012)

I've lost all faith in this world and the people in it, I can't take anymore of this senseless violence, my spirit is broken...


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## Oldmill (Dec 14, 2012)

Just horrible why would anyone doing anything like that.  Everyone should take the time and tell there loved ones how much they love them.


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 14, 2012)

It will keep happening, we can't lock up the whole word. The nut cases will show their ugliness again,and again. Every time something like this happens they say "we need to increase security" no mater what, some nut job will have a reason to kill the innocent and fine a way.

 I feel sorry for the poor little kids and the parents[]    just before Christmas even wow. Its  unimaginable to picture that massacre going down,very messed up----------- RIP kids


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## RedGinger (Dec 14, 2012)

Turning on the news is like watching a horror movie.  I can't watch and have to change the channel.  I said a long prayer for the children, adults and their survivors.  There's just really no words for it.  Action is required.  This cannot happen again.  We cannot allow it.  Adults are the guardians of children (whether we are parents or not), and we owe it to them to never let this happen again to anyone.


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## deenodean (Dec 14, 2012)

Yes my stomach turned when I heard about that! The victims lives have been changed forever. Our hearts go out to all involved.


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## peejrey (Dec 14, 2012)

My heart goes out to everyone effected from this tragedy in America..
 I just don't know what is wrong with the world...I just can't get it..


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## Plumbata (Dec 14, 2012)

I have family that lives there. They went to that elementary school, attended (and got married) at the St Rose of Lima church that has been shown on the news, etc. I've been there and it _was_ a great place. The family is all fine thankfully, but damn... 

 Been dry for a week but tonight I'm getting blasted and listening to Beethoven. F@ck all this crap. []


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## mr.fred (Dec 14, 2012)

Very  Sad Day!~~~~~~~i am at a loss for words!-Prayers for all.       Fred


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## AlexD (Dec 14, 2012)

Right before Christmas too[8D] Someone on Facebook posted the guy's brother's profile. He was about 20 years old, dressed all in black. Just sad. Go break into a gun store or fight the WBC, not little kids.[][&o]. Can only think how the parents must feel.


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## druggistnut (Dec 14, 2012)

Last week a man in China stabbed 22 children at a school. Jim Jones poisoned hundreds of kids with Kool-Aid. Kids in Africa murder with machetes. Do a search for the Bath, Michigan explosion/school murders.
  The SICK/POSSESSED will find a way, folks. It doesn't have to be firearms.
 If ONE teacher had been armed, maybe 15 or more kids might have been saved...
 Bill


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## druggistnut (Dec 14, 2012)

This has caused me to be mentally fatigued today. I almost got sick. I wept for those children and our confused, hurting world.
 Bill


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## hunting262 (Dec 14, 2012)

First it was the Colorado movie theater shooting and now some M*****F***** goes and kill 27 people at a school i mean he must be a huge puss if all he can do is kill kndergardners to 4th graders.


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 14, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  peejrey
> 
> My heart goes out to everyone effected from this tragedy in America..
> I just don't know what is wrong with the world...I just can't get it..


 
 Its  not the world it is "certain F#$%^ed up people" who make this horror happen. The world has nothing to do with it.


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 14, 2012)

If I could push a button and get rid of every creep A hole person who is planing to kill or hurt people in the future or has done so and  is sitting in jail while we pay for the bums,they all would be dead now.I would hit that button with out a second thought. Freaking Nutcases.


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## capsoda (Dec 15, 2012)

Amen brother.


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## andy volkerts (Dec 15, 2012)

[] You got that frickin right Rick!!!! I will help push the button.......


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## Penn Digger (Dec 15, 2012)

I heard a little blurb on somebody's radio yesterday about a shooting, didn't really catch what happened.  Got home from work and the wife turned on the television.  When I heard Newtown, CT I thought OMG!  My college room mate lives there, have been there many times.  There was a forum member (MaKenzie?) a while back from there as well.  I even went up there and dug at her house a couple years back.  

 Called up there immediately and found out their children are safe, but they know other people who lost their children.  So sad!  What a sick b@@#ard!!!  Glad he finished himself off so that the families hurt by this won't have to endure seeing his face with a drawn out trial.  Let's all keep them in our thoughts and prayers.


 PD


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## Steve/sewell (Dec 15, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Penn Digger
> 
> I heard a little blurb on somebody's radio yesterday about a shooting, didn't really catch what happened.  Got home from work and the wife turned on the television.  When I heard Newtown, CT I thought OMG!  My college room mate lives there, have been there many times.  There was a forum member (MaKenzie?) a while back from there as well.  I even went up there and dug at her house a couple years back.
> 
> ...


 Well Spoken Mayor, I know it has saddened everyone's Christmas. What an evil cowardly act.


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## splante (Dec 16, 2012)

like I said such a sad,senseless act by a cowardly unhuman monster...it has made me more conflicted in the debate on gun control..do you outlaw all guns ...then just the crimanals have them? or do we as a people stand up get get trained,licensed and protect everyone around you at all times and be ready at any given moment to take out sick bastards like this.....


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## bostaurus (Dec 16, 2012)

It seems to be the first reaction one has to say we must do something about guns but I think it does not go to the root of the problem.
 Gun ownership is up but gun crime is down.  I remember when most little boys owned a BB gun and usually had their first 22 by the time they were 10-12 years old.  My husband remembers being able to earn a BB gun during school fund raisers and it would be presented to you at school.  We have had guns in our hands since the beginning of our country but these  types of shootings have mostly occurred in the last 20 years.  It seems, in my opinion, that something else is going on here and it really is not gun ownership.
 - young men that feel disconnected from society, have had psych/social issues in the past that were not dealt with
 - very young kids (elementary age) playing first shooter games. 
 - news programs that  keep this on the air 24/7. Trying to fill the air time these folks are ending up putting on some poorly vetted commentators saying some wacky stuff.  Reporters intruding on family grief.  They tell us everything about this killer, he is now infamous.  We can recognize the names of past mass killers...do we remember the names of any of the victims? 
 -a value-less society,  there are no absolute values anymore or at least no one wants to say there are...
 -a whole generation that communicates primarily by text, email, etc.    The definition of "friend" has changed with Facebook.
 -violent music, films, and video games.  We have rating systems for a reason and they are ignored by many parents.
 I wish I knew the answer...


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## februarystarskc (Dec 16, 2012)

Morgan Freeman's take on it.  I thought this sounded about right.

 TURN OFF THE NEWS.......

 Morgan Freeman's brilliant take on what happened yesterday :

  "You want to know why. This may sound cynical, but here's why.


 It's because of the way the media reports it. Flip on the news and watch how we treat the Batman theater shooter and the Oregon mall shooter like celebrities. Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris are household names, but do you know the name of a single *victim* of Columbine? Disturbed
  people who would otherwise just off themselves in their basements see the news and want to top it by doing something worse, and going out in a memorable way. Why a grade school? Why children? Because he'll be remembered as a horrible monster, instead of a sad nobody.

 CNN's article says that if the body count "holds up", this will rank as the second deadliest shooting behind Virginia Tech, as if statistics somehow make one shooting worse than another. Then they post a video interview of third-graders for all the details of what they saw and heard while the shootings were happening. Fox News has plastered the killer's face on all their reports for hours. Any articles or news stories yet that focus on the victims and ignore the killer's identity? None that I've seen yet. Because they don't sell. So congratulations, sensationalist media, you've just lit the fire for someone to top this and knock off a day care center or a maternity ward next.

 You can help by forgetting you ever read this man's name, and remembering the name of at least one victim. You can help by donating to mental health research instead of pointing to gun control as the problem. You can help by turning off the news."


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## epackage (Dec 16, 2012)

.


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## carobran (Dec 16, 2012)

> ORIGINAL: splante
> or do we as a people stand up get get trained,licensed and protect everyone around you at all times and be ready at any given moment to take out sick bastards like this.....


 
 You do this Splante.^^^^ I don't want to start  an argument here,but I'd like to tell everybody about a school shooting you probably haven't heard about,at least no this part. In 1997 a student at Pearl High School in Pearl,Miss. killed his mother,then went to school with a 30. 30. rifle and killed 2 students,wounding several others. As he was attempting to flee,with his rifle and 30 rounds of ammuniton in his car,the assistant principal ran across a parking lot,retrieved a handgun from is truck,returned and held the shooter at gunpoint until police arrived. Think about that,this person killed his mother,2 other students,and was fleeing with 30 more rounds and his rifle. Who knows where he was headed. You can't tell me that armed citizens don't save lives.  

 You can read more about it here   http://rkba.org/users/myrick.txt


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## nydigger (Dec 17, 2012)

One thing that has surfaced is the fact he was mentally ill. So many times this is ignored and not mentioned. This is a more serious issue. These people that suffer with it are offten times misdiagnosed or swept under the rug and do not recieve the help they so desperatly need. Read this article my dad posted on facebook. It gives incite into what parents or care givers of aflicted children and adults go through.....all of these shooters have had some form of it...thats the under lying problem that needs to be addressed and fixed

http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html


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## coldwater diver (Dec 17, 2012)

My heart weeps for anyone who has lost someone due to senseless violence and evil. I try to listen to all the arguments currently going on to prevent these all to common events.

 This may seem unrelated but I dont think one talking head has focused on shows such as Criminal minds "positively entertaining"(there catch phrase) where you can view rape,murder,cannabalism,torture in as many ways as you can dream up. I dont mean to just point them out but you get the idea, its one of many out there. I am not mentally ill but for those that are, might these shows plant the seeds in someones head who is? Do these shows have any responsibility to what is happening to our culture because the guns have been here for a while.  Back in the day (before tv and radio)the pen was mightier than the sword, well how does modern media, video games and the like fit in ?
 When I was growing up it was Wild Kingdom and McGuyver ,Pac Man, Space Invaders and Asteroids.

 May God keep these little ones close until they are reunited with there loved ones once again in heaven.


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## druggistnut (Dec 18, 2012)

Kids used to solve problems with one another with a punch to the nose, too. That is not allowed any more.
 Send kids out to play. Get them involved with other kids. That weeds out the ones with problems, right away. Teachers send kids out on the playground with school aids/parent volunteers, anymore. 
 If they are allowed to watch TV and play on the computer, there is no interaction to judge them by.


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## druggistnut (Dec 18, 2012)

I'll guarantee you that it is not the kids involved in sports, band, student council, etc... that have the issues. The ones that hang out with "weird" kids, like the Goths, or by themselves, are the ones that need to be identified and interviewed by a professional, not a school counselor.


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  nydigger
> 
> One thing that has surfaced is the fact he was mentally ill. So many times this is ignored and not mentioned. This is a more serious issue. These people that suffer with it are offten times misdiagnosed or swept under the rug and do not recieve the help they so desperatly need. Read this article my dad posted on facebook. It gives incite into what parents or care givers of aflicted children and adults go through.....all of these shooters have had some form of it...thats the under lying problem that needs to be addressed and fixed
> 
> http://anarchistsoccermom.blogspot.com/2012/12/thinking-unthinkable.html


 
 I am sitting here watching the Tuesday morning news and they just said  the gun man had "no lingering mental heath issues" come onnnn!


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  druggistnut
> 
> I'll guarantee you that it is not the kids involved in sports, band, student council, etc... that have the issues. The ones that hang out with "weird" kids, like the Goths, or by themselves, are the ones that need to be identified and interviewed by a professional, not a school counselor.


I don't have the statistics for that but as one of those "weird" kids I can say I never did that. 
 I was elated when Carter pardoned the draft evaded and caught it by a few months when he reinstated it. I filled out the form but requested conscientious objector. 
 I'd be willing to die, but not to kill. Draft me as a medic, OK. I just don't like guns much.
 I wonder if I'm still on the list or if I've been flagged? Is over 50 over the hill?


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## carobran (Dec 18, 2012)

Folks have _got _to  STOP MAKING EXCUSES for these people. This shooter knew what he was doing,he knew that it was wrong,he had control over his actions,and he _chose_ to murder those kids. They need to stop all these excuses about the mental health system,violent movies,guns etc. I'm sure he had some mental problems,but the bottom line is these people have to be held responsible for their actions. But of course,that might cause people "emotional distress". Americans need to stop being so afraid to hurt peoples feeling and stop being "politically correct" and maybe we could get some justice in this country. These type of incidents are going to keep happening as long as these people know that they won't be held accountable.


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## cyberdigger (Dec 18, 2012)

Let's review some hypothetical options:

 1. All guns in the world are seized and melted down. That would be quite an undertaking, but as long as there is even just one gun out there, people are potentially at risk of being shot. Then of course, as people make up for the newly created weapon vacuum, they will resort to other implements of harm. A thoughtful, dedicated, preemptive effort ought to be made, ridding the world of any other weapons or materials with which weapons could be fashioned. Whole kitchen drawers would be confiscated at a time.. or better yet.. bought back by the cops.. "Sorry ma'am, that broom stick is made of hardwood. Here's a $5.. you want a receipt..?" 

 2. Go about your lives. It's good to mourn, but not for too long.. and to avenge is not constructive.


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## diggerdirect (Dec 18, 2012)

I am, and have always been about as staunch a gun rights advocate as any out there, but I'll say that this tragedy has really shaken my beliefs right to the core. I've never been one to do 'something' even if its wrong and fully realize that there are many potential factors that may have led this SOB to do what he did, but sure as I'm sittin here there has to be something done to curb or minimize horrendous crimes such as these. I dont know alot about the Psychology or many of the other things they say could have influenced this kid to do what he did so have no ideas what can be done on that front but maybe a limit to capacities of weapons comes to mind from a firearms point of view. Perhaps someone could charge these sons of beeches while they are reloading and take them down, the more often they have to reload the more opportunities to do so? I dont know the answer or if there even is an answer, but I for one would give anything a try at this point and figure its a dam shame it took something like this to make me realize that.

  My heart goes out to the kids & their families.

 Al


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## epackage (Dec 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  carobran
> 
> The Second Amendment....it saves innocent lives.


 
 Except for when the son/daughter of someone who practiced their 2nd Amendment Rights gets ahold of those "Legal Assault Weapons" and murders 20 children under thage of 7....SMH[8|]

 Do you honestly think the founding fathers would have written these laws the same way if assault weapons existed during their lives, they serve NO PURPOSE in the hands of the general public...Get Real

 I'm not saying we shouldn't be allowed to own guns Branden, but certain weapons just serve no purpose but to kill other humans.


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 18, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  carobran
> 
> Folks have _got _toÂ  STOP MAKING EXCUSES for these people. This shooter knew what he was doing,he knew that it was wrong,he had control over his actions,and he _chose_ to murder those kids. They need to stop all these excuses about the mental health system,violent movies,guns etc. I'm sure he had some mental problems,but the bottom line is these people have to be held responsible for their actions. But of course,that might cause people "emotional distress". Americans need to stop being so afraid to hurt peoples feeling and stop being "politically correct" and maybe we could get some justice in this country. TheseÂ type of incidentsÂ are going to keep happening as long as these people know that they won't be held accountable.


 

 Your right they know that they wont be held accountable because they blow their brains out afterwords.


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## epackage (Dec 18, 2012)

The part that bothers me the most is every gun owner I know, including myself, says they are a responsible gun owner. If that were the case we wouldn't have the stories we read in the paper or hear about on the news *all the time* where some kid shoots his little brother or sister with moms handgun while playing in mom & dad's bedroom, or where little Johnny brings his daddies gun to school in his backpack. I'm not saying I have a easy fix, I'm not saying all guns should be outlawed, and I'm not saying that people bent on killing won't find a way. I am saying that we need to have a dialogue about the problems we have with over 300 million guns in this country and hundreds of thousands more being produced yearly...

 No matter what happens I'm just sickened like everyone else about the loss of innocence in Connecticut, and I hope I never see it again, but sadly I will many times over...[:-]


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 18, 2012)

I think this whole tread should stop! who the F$%^k cares about this subject anyway! Kids are dead its Christmas and the world is out a whack. Why contribute to it? If I started a subject on "mouse turds"  size I'm sure there would be a long drawn out debate over it. You guys love to agree to disagree. People love to be right in this place. I am not even getting in on it and I had guns all my life. Now is not the time to discuss  this crap.

 It will go on and on and on like the political  Chit.. SHADUP


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## diggerdirect (Dec 18, 2012)

> I think this whole tread should stop! who the F$%^k cares about this subject anyway! ...... I am not even getting in on it.....


 
 [8|]

 By my count your leading in number of posts here.


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 19, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  diggerdirect
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 leading to bash the thread,not to egg it on. Stop the Madness

 Talk about it after Christmas. Noel


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## MIdigger (Dec 19, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  druggistnut
> 
> I'll guarantee you that it is not the kids involved in sports, band, student council, etc... that have the issues. The ones that hang out with "weird" kids, like the Goths, or by themselves, are the ones that need to be identified and interviewed by a professional, not a school counselor.


  Bill, respectfully, I must disagree. One only need look back to Charles Whitman and the Texas tower shootings (Aug-1-1966). Whitman was (and as far as I know still IS) was the youngest at 12yrs of age to become an Eagle scout, was also at age 6 said to have an IQ of 172. I woundnt said youre wrong as I believe that a person involved in social events helps them grow. But again, we all know of the loners, people laugh at and make fun of...weve all seen it. I had a classmate in high school commit suicide just after graduation. Still, all these years later I ask myself why?
 But, you cant judge the proverbial book by its cover. Whitman`s family was disfunctional with an abusive father and Mother who didnt divorce the father until later. Though one questions why neither of the siblings had any problems?. Whitman went on to try and get "help" but nothing was done. He went as far in the suicide notes to ask his brain and body be autopsied to find a cause and lo and behold a tumor.
 Interestingly enough, he shot 43 people (after using a knife to kill his wife and Mother) with a common Remington M-700 in 6mm caliber. A BOLT ACTION......Everyone wants to hate the dreaded black guns. They like to shoot high cap mags because the guys use them for plinking and shooting at the ranges. Most dont like to load five shoot five. Some like to use them for hunting (varmints deer etc) with the 5rd mags. Sadly, there will always be events like this in history. The antis are all over this like rabid dogs to push an agenda. Iam all for reason and logic, not knee jerk reactions (Feinstein,Schumer and the list goes on). 

 This is going to divide this country even more, by those who figure big brother can protect them 24/7 and those who would rather do it themselves...Oh what a wonderful world in which we live. Compound this with all the stress of the world cominag apart at the seams and is there a wonder people are "losing it"?..


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## AlexD (Dec 20, 2012)

This just proves how stupid some people are[] Some guy on the radio was saying that if teachers and principles would carry guns things like this wouldn't happen[:-][8D]


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## carobran (Dec 20, 2012)

Alex - That person seems to have a bad case of common sense(gasp). I hope he gets treatment. He might spread it to others,and heaven help us if that happens,we might actually be able to turn this country around for the better. 

 On a more serious note,arming principles and teachers would not prevent all of these types of crimes,they'll happen no matter what law you put in place. However,its a proven fact that having armed citizens in a building often acts as a deterrent. Let me put it this way,you've got a choice to rob a house in Austin,Texas or Chicago. If you rob the house in Chicago,which has very strict gun regulations,you know theres a very good chance the occupants are going to be unarmed and defeneless,sure,they might try to take you out with a baseball bat. But they'd need to get within a 3 or 4 ft of you for that to be effective at all,and you can just shoot them from 10 ft away. However,you know that if you rob the house in Texas,where most people are armed,theres a good chance when you get to the other side of that door you'll be looking down the barrel of a gun,and it might just be the last sight you'll ever see. So,which one do you go after? Hmmm,thats a tough one....

 If the priciple of that school had been armed,and trained in the use of that gun,chances are alot of those kids would be at home right now enjoying Christmas break,instead they're laying in a casket. Liberals keep saying we need to do everything in our power to save these kids lives,but they refuse to consider what would be one of, if not the most, effective measures.

 Jim- There are several reasons I'm against a semi-automatic weapons ban,such as when you start drawing these lines where do they stop? If they ban semi-automatic rifles,and someone goes and does this again with a handgun,do you want to ban those too? Maybe you'd like us to go back to flintlocks? Also,Its clear that the Founding Fathers gave us the right to bear arms mainly to prevent against government tyranny,so it would make sense, that , in order for that to be effective, the people should be able to arm themselves at least somewhat as well as the government. I'm not saying give folks hand grenades and RPG's ,but a ban on semi-automatic rifles is absurd. And lastly,there are no telling how many semi-automatic rifles are in the hands of honest,law-abiding citizens. Do you propose the government confiscates them all? Thats unconstitutional,not to mention impossible.

 Merry Christmas.


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## AlexD (Dec 20, 2012)

Yes, you do have a very good point. But also these are Elementary school kids. I think having armed principles and teachers would be a little... dangerous? I wouldn't really want my kid going to school where guns are ANYWHERE (though the any kids I have are named Mittens and Miss Kitty[]) accept in the hands of law enforcement. A teacher can "snap" just like anyone else.

 [&:]


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## AlexD (Dec 20, 2012)

It's even more dangerous because in my state all you need to buy a gun is to be 18 or over. Nothing else, no permit, no anything to own a gun. You can take it hunting, anything. Just not carrying it around with you everywhere you go, to do that you do need a permit[>:]


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 21, 2012)

It's the end of the world anyway so stop worrying.
 It's also the end of this thread.
 I'll leave it to read though. I do have additional thoughts but I'll keep them to myself.


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