# Hartwig Kantorowicz varities...



## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Here are a handful of bottles that I have from the Hartwig Kantorowicz distillery.  Does anyone have any other varities from Hartwig?  I collect Judaica related bottles and am always looking for more.  Does anyone know the values or ages of these? 

 Thanks

 -Jay


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

.


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

Value? Age?


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

.


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## jaymshultz (Jan 5, 2006)

.


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## jaymshultz (Jan 16, 2006)

also of Judaica interest


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## botil (Jan 17, 2006)

Nice Hartwig Kantorowuicz bottles.
 In this case..."The hexagram symbolises protection of the drinker against demonic spirits (certainly a good thing after drinking too much liqueur). This hexagram is still seen today in North-east Germany and Poland, used as a trade mark on many sign-boards outside pubs serving spirits. This 'Star of David' should not be confused with the Jewish"... Willy Van den Bossche, Antique Glass Bottles, Their History and Evolution (1500-1850), pag 258, Plate 206.
 I hope it helps


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## GuntherHess (Jan 17, 2006)

I guess this is similar to the hex signs you see on the Pennsylvania Dutch country barns.


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## jaymshultz (Jan 17, 2006)

I would disagree that the star on these bottles was not initially intended to be a Jewish symbol.  Afterall, the company was a Jewish owned distillery.  In fact, in the family was a very famous Jewish writer.

 Ernst Hartwig Kantorowicz (1895-1963) was a German-born Jewish historian of theology and iconographer, known for his 1927 book Kaiser Friedrich der Zweite on Holy Roman Emperor Frederick II, and his later The King's Two Bodies (1957).

 He was born in Posen (now Poznan, Poland). After four years' service in the Army in World War I, he studied philosophy at Berlin University from 1918. The following year, at the University of Heidelberg, he became acquainted with Stefan George, and became an associate of the Georgekreis. This and his work on Frederick II led to accusations that he identified too strongly with German nationalism. He was not, however, safe from unfavourable notice from the Nazis when they came to power in 1933

 He held an academic position at Frankfurt University, but left Germany in 1938, taking a position at the University of Berkeley in 1939. After a controversy prompted by his reaction to McCarthyism, he moved to the Institute for Advanced Study.


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## botil (Jan 17, 2006)

Very interesting, Jay.
 The bottle showed at the first pic, the bottle sealed with a salmon surmounted by a hexagram...
 "The salmon (in German 'Der Lachs') is the trade mark of the distillery 'Der Lachs' or 'Der Danzinger Lachs', in 1770 situated in the Breitgasse, NÂº. 52, in Danzing and still existing now in NÃ¶rten Hartenberg, Poland, formerly Germany. In 1711 Isaac Witwe Ling (the widow of Isaac Ling) was one of the owners of this 'salmon liqueur' (in German 'Lachs LikÃ¶r') distillery.
 For religious or mystical reasons, the liqueur also contains many small flakes of gold, hence its alternative name 'Danzinger Goldwater' (in german 'Danzinger Goldwasser')."
 Willy Van den Bossche.
 -Juan Carlos


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## capsoda (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Jay, The fish in the Star of David was also used buy Christian Jews and before that the Menhora and a fish where the base of the Menhora and the tail of the fish came together to form the star. Ive included a hand scribbled example.


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## jaymshultz (Jan 20, 2006)

Hartwig Kantorowicz was 100% a Jewish owned company that started in 1823 in Posen, Germany (now Poznan, Poland).

 For those who read Polish

 http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:cFAn37tNAcYJ:www.glos.com/index.php%3Farch%3D1%26d%3D03-11-08%26k%3Dgp%26f%3D30-35


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## jaymshultz (Jan 20, 2006)

As for the other topic in this stringâ€¦.

 There have never been Christian Jews.  That term is an oxymoron.  2000 years ago the first followers of Jesus were Jewish, but they still were 100% Jews and did not consider Jesus to be divine or anymore the son of God than any other man.  Some believed that Jesus could have been the messiah, but there had always been, both before and after, potential messiah figures that had some Jews believing in them.  Since Jesus did not bring about the final redemption that brought the world to fulfill the prophecies in the Bible, the Jews rejected him as the messiah.  

 The bigger issue for these early followers of Jesus as a potential messiah was whether or not to continue to follow the laws of the Bible as taught to the Jews by God at Mount Sinai.  Since Jesus himself followed all of the laws of God and preached that the laws of God should stay intact, those Jews who thought him to be the messiah could still worship with the rest of the nation and still marry with the rest of the nation.  

 According to the New Testament (and I am not one to normally quote the NT) Jesus said in his sermon on the mount; "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven.  (Mtt 5:17-20)

 Jesus said explicitly that not one jot or tittle should be ignored in the law.  Of course Jesus said this, after all he was an observant learned Jew and his legacy was drastically altered so Paul could spread monotheism to the pagans.  As a Jew, Jesus knew that after the messiah came and the prophecies of the Bible were fulfilled, things would be different to a degree.  This was all that he was saying.  But even if Jesus was the messiah, he had not yet fulfilled the conditions that the messiah must fulfill (bring world peace, build the Third Temple with the Holy Ark etc...) so the Jews knew that the full extent of the laws must still stay intact.  If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah."

 Here are some other New Testament quotes that prove that Jesus preached the continued following of strict Jewish Biblical law...

 Â§.Matt 23:23 ...Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spicesâ€” mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the lawâ€” justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 

 Â§.Luke 11:42 ...Woe to you Pharisees, because you give God a tenth of your mint, rue and all other kinds of garden herbs, but you neglect justice and the love of God. You should have practiced the latter without leaving the former undone. 

 Â§.Matt 23:1-3 ...Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. 

 It was only the later additions by John and Paul that made the idea of being Jewish and thinking that Jesus could have been the messiah impossible.

 It was only when the pagan followers of Jesus began not practicing the laws of the Bible, that the Jewish majority shunned the followers of Jesus as a separate religion and no longer "kosher" in the eyes of the Bible.  

 This is also when for the first time Jesus's followers began seeing Jesus as not a man who was the messiah, but as God himself.  The early Jewish followers of Jesus never considered him to be divine in that way at all.  To do so would have been obvious idolatry since worshiping anything (form, idea, concept or otherwise) that anthropomorphizes or creates worship of an intermediary between man and God is idolatrous.  The concept that God had a son that was at the same time a part of God to be worshipped is idolatrous for Jews.  This notion only came about as a much later addition to early Christianity to appease the pagans that were trying to be proselytized to.  It was comforting for pagans to see vast similarities in the new religion to their own, so similarities were created (think of Zeus impregnating human women, think of Christmas and pagan worship during the winter solstice, think of the images of Apollo and images of Jesus with the long flowing hair and Greek features)

 Paul (Saul) was the Jewish man who came up with the brilliant marketing plan to both spread the concept of monotheism to the pagan world, while at the same time detaching the option of Jews falling into this "new lawless religion".  Paul made it acceptable for the first time to both follow Jesus as the messiah and not follow the laws of the Bible.  As soon as he did this, the Jews rejected the possibility of Jesus being the messiah and most of the Jewish followers of Jesus moved on.  The pagans on the other hand had no concept of a messiah or even a single all powerful God.  So Paul needed to give them a God to worship.  It was then that Jesus went from the Biblical idea of messiah to this new made idea for pagans that he was God himself.  Of course Paul had to make it acceptable for the pagans to be Christians and not follow the laws of the Bible (which was a neat trick considering Jesus himself followed the laws strictly and preached that they should stay intact).  Paul knew that it was not easy to spread monotheism with difficult laws such as circumcision and eating only kosher food etc...to the pagan world, so he told them it was fine to not follows the laws that the Jews know are necessary for their survival.  This was a smart strategic move for Paul.  He was able to spread Jewish morals and the knowledge of one God to the pagans without proselytizing Judaism, which Jews are not supposed to do in the first place.  

 The messiah is supposed to be a man from the family line of the house of King David.  In Judaism the religion vests from the mother, but since the family lineage and tribal affiliation are paternal, Jesus supposingly having no mortal biological father could not have been from the bloodline of David.  This of course is just one of the many reasons that the Jews do not consider Jesus to be the messiah.  And even if, as the Jews believe, Jesus had two biological parents and was not a special son of God, he did not fulfill the duties of the messiah including; bringing the entire world to monotheism, all Jews returning to Israel and the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem.

 Anyway, its great that all of the pagans in Europe came to finally agree with the Jews.  Its quite ironic that those pagans who had been sacrificing humans, ignoring the poor and cripple and persecuting the Jews for having this insane idea that there is only one God who was invisible and all powerful now are great champions of monotheism around the globe.

 For more reading on this subject you can go to...

 http://www.aish.com/jewishissues/jewishsociety/Why_Jews_Dont_Believe_In_Jesus.asp

 and

 http://www.aish.com/societyWork/society/WORLD_PERFECT_The_Jewish_Impact_on_Civilization.asp


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## GuntherHess (Jan 20, 2006)

wow, that's some serious religious text you got there...
 I think I have a bottle somewhere in my basement that has a toe bone of John the Baptist in it.
 I'll post a photo if I can find it...


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## jaymshultz (Jan 20, 2006)

.


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## jaymshultz (Jan 20, 2006)

Not mine...wish it was!


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## jaymshultz (Jan 20, 2006)

also not mine...wish it was


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## capsoda (Jan 20, 2006)

Ok, Technically you are correct and I wasn't trying to put forth any theological information. I was simply stating that both symbols were used by the followers of Jesus who are known as Christian Jews { modern slang } to most people now days. I know the proper term is Christian Hebrew because I know my heritage and I know the Bible because I read it.

 There is still time.[8|]


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## southern Maine diver (Jan 20, 2006)

WOW...

 In the words of Ray Ramano's father "Frank" on the show, Everybody Loves Raymond...   "...Holy Crap!"   Man, this is too deep for me... and I'm a diver.

 Religion has been the cause for most wars throughout the world... now I understand...

 Wayne


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## jaymshultz (Jan 20, 2006)

The Jewish nation has never prompted any war....ever.


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## southern Maine diver (Jan 21, 2006)

Hey Jay

 I got your E-mail... you got some issues... Lighten up man?  What say we talk about bottles, diggin and diving...[]

 Wayne


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## capsoda (Jan 21, 2006)

Hey Wayne, Did you get my email? Either way send me one so I can check mine. Think I'm havin trouble with it.

 Follow up with a pm Just in case.


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## jaymshultz (Jan 21, 2006)

Lighten up?  This is all fun and interesting for me.  I assume that most people who are interested in old bottles are also interested in history and specifically the history that relates to old bottles.  In my discussions about the Hartwig bottles, it became interesting and relevant to talk about Judaism and the replacement theology of Christianity.


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## tazmainiendigger (Jan 21, 2006)

Hi Jay, I just want to say following the footsteps of man is a fascinating study! I thought of you when I dug this bottle out , is it jewish or polish? The bottle is embossed with a crest and BlackBerry Juice, the bottom is embossed Mihalovitch... Taz


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## tazmainiendigger (Jan 21, 2006)

upper embossing


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## tazmainiendigger (Jan 21, 2006)

overall photo, befor tumbling.....


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## Oldtimer (Jan 21, 2006)

I'm farclempt. Talk amongst yerselves..


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## jaymshultz (Jan 22, 2006)

I am quite sure that this blackberry bottle isnt too old.  And its almost assuredly not Jewish related...Mihalovitch is just a non-Jewish Russian name.


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## tazmainiendigger (Jan 22, 2006)

Thanks Jay, I ran the name through Google and came up with this 1895 ad, it is the first reference i've seen... Taz


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## jaymshultz (Jan 22, 2006)

Great label find!


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## jaymshultz (Jan 25, 2006)

just got this one!


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## cyberdigger (Jan 30, 2009)

> ORIGINAL:  botil
> 
> Very interesting, Jay.
> The bottle showed at the first pic, the bottle sealed with a salmon surmounted by a hexagram...
> ...


 
 I bumped this up as it's pertainent to the Isaac Witwe Ling thread...


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## tigue710 (Jan 30, 2009)

I think it more pertains to a certain type of bottle being made and used predominantly by Germans?  maybe they had Dutch cousins make the bottles though... after all the Germans were renowned glass makers...

 Pay it up!


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## cyberdigger (Jan 30, 2009)

Yes, you win. I did my homework and you're right... how would you like this nice piece of hand-painted stoneware.. I am pretty sure it's German..[]


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## tigue710 (Jan 30, 2009)

its actually quite nice...  I dont want anything though.  A good argument is just fine![][]

 now...  how bought the two scent bottles just listed?  want to bet that they are Venetian and clevenger pieces?


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## cyberdigger (Jan 30, 2009)

[] I wouldn't know those little blue beauties from Adam.. early Emersons for all I know!
 I think I'll TRY to keep my mouth shut unless I see something I know about.. like TOC NJ beverages!
 You're a smart cookie, Matt![]


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## appliedlips (Jan 30, 2009)

You talking about the two posted on this site.Those babies were the real deal.


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## RED Matthews (Jan 30, 2009)

Hi cyberdigger,  I like that ceramic bottle.  We have two sets of kitchen containers in NY and I think one of them matches that bottle.  If you want to sell it - send me a PM. 
 RED Matthews


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## tigue710 (Jan 30, 2009)

> ORIGINAL:  appliedlips
> 
> You talking about the two posted on this site.Those babies were the real deal.


 
 yeah, They are...the south Jersey is questionable with out seeing some better pics though.  And she said the the Sanwich type was not pontiled, but it looks pontiled to me...


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## milkglassbottles (Jun 14, 2009)

Late 1800's to tc. $100 - $150 on a good day, unless you have a good labeled example which will pump it up about 50% more.


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## beendiggin (Jun 14, 2009)

Jay, that's a great collection...I didn't know there were that many variations.  I only knew of the milk glass bottle.  Thanks for the pics and history!


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## bottlesjhbottler (Mar 3, 2011)

seen a small sample kantos with mispelt writting,any good?
 [align=left]  [/align]


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## blade (Mar 3, 2011)

OHHH MY !


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## RussosVR (Aug 30, 2011)

Any one give me some info on a 7 1/2 in green bottle (if yes I'll post pics) Hartwig Kantorowicz The 6 point star has HG at top andAG at the botton.  Three labels on the front intact and lower on reads Dubelt CHURFURSTL MAGENBITTER Berlin Hamburg Slammhaus gegrundel 1823 with coins goin around. thanks


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## surfaceone (Aug 30, 2011)

Hello Amy

 Welcome to the A-BN, and yes photos would be very helpful. As you can see from this thread there were many variants of the Kantorowicz bottles.


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## RussosVR (Aug 30, 2011)

Here's the photo of the bottle, I did get some info on the bottle, but really looking to see if I can get a year or basic value on this.  Thanks Amy


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## surfaceone (Aug 30, 2011)

> with coins goin around.


 
 Hey Amy,

 Are they "coins" or prize medals from various exhibitions? Is the bottle embossed? Could you take close ups of all the labels, any embossing, and the base? The labels appear in remarkable shape.

 I know nichts on values, but perhaps others will.


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## RussosVR (Aug 30, 2011)

Here's a closer view, really beautiful label.  I have been briskly throw into the world of bottles as for the fun of it I bid (and won) on about 200+ antique and vintage bottles at an auction. We do vintage resale and light restoration.  Now I'm all into bottles, they're grea,t each one with amazing histories to tell.  But many, no identifing labels or marks, are making me crazy!! Hopefully the forum will be a big help.


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## RussosVR (Aug 30, 2011)

Bottle is not embossed. I'll get out my magn. glass and look at the label closer.


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## Poldigger (Dec 8, 2012)

I can buy this bottle for a 100$ - is this worth it? The bottle is in perfect condition with label.


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## Poldigger (Dec 8, 2012)

2


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## Poldigger (Dec 8, 2012)

Something special - ashtray


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## epackage (Dec 8, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Poldigger
> 
> I can buy this bottle for a 100$ - is this worth it? The bottle is in perfect condition with label.


 Great bottle Lukas, I wish I had an answer for you but I can't find another example like it that sold recently...


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## Poldigger (Dec 8, 2012)

Another ashtray:


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

Milk glass a)


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

b)


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

1a


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

2a


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

3c


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

Inside Kantorowicz restaurant.


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

2


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

3


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

Just check the website.:
 http://tarkos.gessel.pl/admin/files/hartwig%20kantorowicz%20nast%C4%99pca.pdf


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## surfaceone (Dec 9, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Poldigger
> 
> I can buy this bottle for a 100$ - is this worth it? The bottle is in perfect condition with label.


 
 Hello Lukas,

 That's a fine example! Is there any embossing, or is it label only? Are they popular in Posen?

 Are you talking dollars or


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

Popular in Posen? I don't know. With this label is very rare; you can buy this shape from time to time, but without her.  
 This is another bottle:


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

2.


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

3


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

I thikn my bottle has embossing, example:


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## Poldigger (Dec 9, 2012)

b


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## Poldigger (Dec 10, 2012)

I found it today ))))


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## Poldigger (Dec 10, 2012)

2.


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## Poldigger (Dec 10, 2012)

3


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## Poldigger (Dec 14, 2012)

From the internet:


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## Poldigger (Dec 14, 2012)

b


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## Poldigger (Dec 14, 2012)

And close-up on my:


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## Poldigger (Dec 14, 2012)

2


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## Poldigger (Dec 14, 2012)

3


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## Poldigger (Dec 14, 2012)

4


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## Poldigger (Dec 14, 2012)

5


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## Poldigger (Jan 2, 2013)

Restaurant inside.


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## RICKJJ59W (Jan 2, 2013)

Hartwig Kanto Rowicz Hamburg


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## Poldigger (Jan 2, 2013)

Small beauty


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## bottlesgermany (Jan 3, 2013)

Hello,

 I have some Hartwig Kantorowicz bottles. Interested?


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## ribbonseal (Jan 18, 2013)

Hi from Melbourne, Australia. I collect Hartwig Kantorowicz bottles. If any forum members can send me photo and description to rbroadhurst@iinet.net.au that would be appreciated. Thanks Robert


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## glass man (Jan 18, 2013)

JESUS HAD JEWISH BLOOD..BUT HAD GOD FLOWING THROUGH HIM TOO..YES THE FIRST FOLLOWERS OF JESUS WERE JEWISH TOO...THEY WERE NOT CALLED "CHRISTIANS" UNTIL AT ANTIOCH in GREECE....it was PAUL that was sent to preach to the gentiles..yes there were and are still CHRISTIANS THAT ARE JEWISH PEOPLE  THAT BELIEVE JESUS IS THE MESSIAH,the SON OF GOD,AND THE SAVIOR OF THE WORLD!

 In ROMANS PAUL SAYS THERE WILL ALWAYS BE A REMNANT OF JEWISH PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IN JESUS AND THAT THE GENTILES ARE ONLY BEING GRAFTED INTO THE TREE SO THEY TOO CAN BECOME ONE WITH ALL BELIEVERS..JAMIE


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## bottlesgermany (Feb 1, 2013)

These are some Hartwig Kantorowicz bottles from my father


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