# full Pint flask



## Raypadua (Jul 23, 2019)

Hi there,  I have a friend that just picked up this bottle.  It’s turned a nice purple hue. It has what looks like a slug plate with full pint embossed on it.  It also has a relatively sloppy applied lip.  Any historical info on this bottle would be much appreciated.
.


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## saratogadriver (Jul 24, 2019)

Made in large numbers in quite a few glass houses.   1880s thru early 1900s.

Jim G


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## Raypadua (Jul 24, 2019)

Thanks Jim!  So would this be of American or European descent?  Would it have held whiskey or any variety of spirits?


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## CanadianBottles (Jul 24, 2019)

This would be American or possibly Canadian, definitely not European.  Whiskey is likely but could have held all sorts of things.  The "Full Pint" in a slug plate is unusual, I don't remember ever seeing one like that before.


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## Robby Raccoon (Jul 24, 2019)

The Gould Act of 1913 required all bottles or labels of bottles to be listed with the volume the bottle _would_, not just could, hold. Most bottles that tell the volume of the contents date after this Act.


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## saratogadriver (Jul 26, 2019)

CanadianBottles said:


> This would be American or possibly Canadian, definitely not European.  Whiskey is likely but could have held all sorts of things.  The "Full Pint" in a slug plate is unusual, I don't remember ever seeing one like that before.




Agreed.  Most of the ones you routinely see have the full pint around the shoulder.   

Most of these bottles that I see are pre-abm type manufacture so I wonder how many were made before the Gould act and how many were made after simply using older equipment.

Jim G


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## Robby Raccoon (Jul 26, 2019)

While numerous examples were likely made before the Gould Act, it is not cost-effective to needlesly engrave multiple plates or moulds for a utilitarian bottle meant for a catalog that any bottler with a tight budget might select from. Many bottles before 1910 were full ABM just as many bottles into and after WW1 in America were, like this, made by being BIM.


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## Raypadua (Jul 26, 2019)

Robby Raccoon said:


> The Gould Act of 1913 required all bottles or labels of bottles to be listed with the volume the bottle _would_, not just could, hold. Most bottles that tell the volume of the contents date after this Act.



I was reading from the book - A Century of Antique Canadian Glass Fruit Jars” by Douglas and Marion Bird, and Charles Corke. Published 1971. - where is stated the use of manganese dioxide is why the jars would turn an amethyst colour after being exposed to sunlight over a long period of time.  The use of manganese dioxide was discontinued in 1914.

Would that date this jar between 1913 (Gould Act of 1913) and 1914 (discontinued use of manganese dioxide)?


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## CanadianBottles (Jul 26, 2019)

Gould Act doesn't necessarily apply since you're in Canada, I'm not sure when rules about embossing contents came into effect here but I'm pretty certain it was much later than 1913, probably sometime in the late 1920s or 1930s.  Manganese dioxide also wasn't completely discontinued in 1914, I've got a jar with a patent date of 1915 that's turning amethyst.  Your bottle definitely shouldn't post-date the 1910s though.


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## Raypadua (Jul 27, 2019)

Good points CB and I guess a lot of glassware info is not necessarily a hard and fast rule


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## saratogadriver (Jul 29, 2019)

Robby Raccoon said:


> While numerous examples were likely made before the Gould Act, it is not cost-effective to needlesly engrave multiple plates or moulds for a utilitarian bottle meant for a catalog that any bottler with a tight budget might select from. Many bottles before 1910 were full ABM just as many bottles into and after WW1 in America were, like this, made by being BIM.




Interesting.  I'd have said that a BIM bottle after WWI was a very rare critter, as WWI, as all wars do, pushed productivity and technology forward.   Do you know of a confirmed post WWI BIM bottle that can be confirmed was blown after WWI as opposed to a reused bottle or one from old stock?

Say a BIM med or booze bottle with a label for someone not in business before 1914?  That would be 100% proof it was blown after the start of WWI but it would be fairly good circumstantial evidence it was.

Jim G


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## Robby Raccoon (Jul 30, 2019)

Most of our manganese dioxide was coming from European countries. The great war slowed and then halted its shipment over to the Americas. As such, glass-makers had to search for other decolorizers if they wanted clear, or flint, glass. But, I've seen bottles that could not predate the late 1910s that were turning SCA.


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## Robby Raccoon (Jul 30, 2019)

I'm afraid that I've gotten rid of most of my bottle collection. The newest bottles I have with me or documentation of, of which I am confident of their manufacture, is c. 1915 (Boxed and labeled Stearn's Tonic with package redesign date) and 1916 (Egg's Brandy, a short-lived company), hand-tooled. 


Two well-respected and highly trusted members of this forum, though, had this to say in old threads:


*Plumbata*: "Regarding BIMs, I have some sodas from 1914 or after and druggists which couldn't have been created before 1921. Some perfumes were BIM into the 30s. They are outliers, but arguably more interesting because of it."


*SodaPopBob, quoting Digger Odell: *
"The 1920s was a time expansion. The First World War had ended and ushered in tremendous technological advances that permeated every facet of industry. The Midwest was alive with new glass factories operating on a new fuel - natural gas. Around the turn of the century many factories got started in Ohio, Illinois and Indiana. The older Eastern factories struggled with both the need for fuel but also the need to update their equipment. The newer glass makers employed the newest equipment, production from which could far out strip the hand tooling done in some factories. There were glasshouses still hand tooling bottles but they were becoming scarce."
Source: http://www.bottlebooks.com/Designer Sodas/designer_soda_bottles.htm

I would think, though, that the later 1910s saw focus more on the war effort than on the home front. I think it was adaptations from research and development for the war that lead to other technological boons.


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## saratogadriver (Jul 30, 2019)

Interesting.   It DOES make aging these later BIM bottles more challenging.   I guess I've been well indoctrinated into the "owens ABM = no more BIM".    I've certainly seen stuff like perfumes, but don't think of them as bottles the way I think of medicine, alcoholic bev, etc.   They weren't as much the heavily mass produced bottles like medicines.  just sort of a different fish.

Of course there would be delay.   New equipment is always more $ and some places are going to hold off as long as they can.  And I know Europe and Britain kept on with BIM longer, continuing some very traditional bottles like beer/ale bottles, well past the point where the ABM was the industry standard.   

Jim G





Robby Raccoon said:


> I'm afraid that I've gotten rid of most of my bottle collection. The newest bottles I have with me or documentation of, of which I am confident of their manufacture, is c. 1915 (Boxed and labeled Stearn's Tonic with package redesign date) and 1916 (Egg's Brandy, a short-lived company), hand-tooled.
> 
> 
> Two well-respected and highly trusted members of this forum, though, had this to say in old threads:
> ...


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## Raypadua (Jul 31, 2019)

“... I guess I've been well indoctrinated into the "owens ABM = no more BIM". 

That completely describes me but at least it’s a great place to start with dating glass especially being relatively new to this hobby/industry!  

Invaluable info being shared here and much appreciated.  Thankful as well that there are older posts to reference!  Great library!


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## epackage (Sep 23, 2019)

Terms like "Full Pint" and others are not part of the Gould Act, only actually contents measurements like the number of actual ounces were qualified as legal under the 1913 amendment to the Gould Act.


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## Harry Pristis (Sep 23, 2019)




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## Raypadua (Sep 25, 2019)

Thanks Harry!  

any idea what would turn glass a peach color or pink?  I have some Mid West fruit jars that have turned those subtle hues.


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2019)

Raypadua said:


> Thanks Harry!
> 
> any idea what would turn glass a peach color or pink?  I have some Mid West fruit jars that have turned those subtle hues.


Manganese will turn a bottle various shades of light pink/amethyst to dark purple depending on the amount used in the glass batch and how it is exposed to ultra violet light, nuking them, exposing them to things like commercial food sterilizers can turn them dark purple. Selenium will cause them to turn light straw colored to dark brown also depending on the same factors...


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## Raypadua (Oct 19, 2019)

So manganese is the culprit for my pink glass!  Thanks epackage!


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