# Packer ref debacle



## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm up in the middle of the night because I can't sleep. I can't sleep over a game. I know it's just a game and it doesn't really matter that much, but it feels like an injustice - which is sitting in my crop. My brain won't shut off. It happens to me when I feel I need to set something right. So, here I am at my favorite bottle site with you, my fellow collectors and online friends, hoping for a little perspective (and the chance to vent).


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

Regarding the replacement refs. 

 Up until now, I've really had no problem with them. I don't know exactly why the NFL and the regular referees cannot come to terms but it is what it is. So, replacements come in. They've gotten some calls wrong and much ado has been made over it. But they have also gotten many calls right. This is a fast paced game and it's oftentimes hard to tell precisely what happened in real time. Calls are going to get missed. However, there is a mechanism for correcting controversial calls whereby plays can be reviewed. It is the challenge /review process. The NFL has excellent film crews usually from several angles (in part thanks to the late great Steve Sabol who just passed). The film has no stake in the outcome and doesn't lie. It simply shows / replays what it is that occurred.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

My biggest concern or problem with the replacemnt refs before tonight was the failure to control the tone of the game. Players are getting extra chippy with each other (in my opinion) and the refs need to nip that pattern. There is too much mayhem and fighting both during and after plays and it's not good. I think the replacements need to take a firmer hand and start throwing flags, issuing penalties until they either get more respect from the players or they simply force the players to knock it off for fear of hurting their team. In the current situation, this is neither here nor there. I was just trying to explain my pre-game biases . . .


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

So, the Packers play the Seahawks on Monday Night Football. Big game. National audience. It all comes down to the final play as time expires . . .

 Wait. I know. I know. It shouldn't have come down to that. If either team plays better, executes one play here or there during the whole rest of the game, it won't come down to the very last play. A game shouldn't be decided as time expires. But there is a lot of parody in the NFL and sometimes it *does* happen that all of it rides on the very last wild hail mary throw into the endzone.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

So what happened?

 The ball is tossed into the left side corner of the endzone. There appears to be two Seahawk receivers in the area. There are also about a half dozen Packer defenders. The ball is thrown fairly deep into the corner and it winds up that everybody is jumping up to catch it. As the ball approaches, the Seattle receiver shoves a Packer defender out of his way. This IS a penalty (offensive pass interference) but the refs either don't catch it or don't want to call it because it may adversely effect the outcome. Either way, one defender is gone clearing the front side path for the Seattle receiver. The ball goes high and a Packer (Jennings) reaches over the top and puts two hands on it, catching it at the apex of his upward leap. The Seattle receiver -just in front of Jennings - has one hand hooked up behind the ball. The other is swinging inward trying to rip the ball away from the Packer defender. Maybe the Seattle player can pull it away or muscle the ball loose and come away with it for the chance to win. However, he wasn't able to. The pass was intercepted.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

There are two refs standing nearby during the play. The refs, confused about exactly what happened, take one quick look at each other and then each makes a conflicting signal. One rules a stoppage of the clock for the change of possesion (meaning an interception). The other signals a touchdown. They do not confer, and the touchdown becomes the official ruling. 

 So, with the entire raucous stadium looking on, the play gets reviewed. In that review booth, the outcome will be decided. The film is studied and the objective truth can be seen.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

Now I know there are some purists out there about truth who think there is no such thing as objective truth. But I disagree. You can indeed look at a tape and see exactly what happened when the angles are right, even when things are very close. For example, when a hitter in baseball is running to first base and gets called 'out', you can study the film to see if the call is correct. (Incidently, this play is not reviewable by MLB). Sometimes, even on film, it is too close to call. But sometimes you can clearly see that the ball beat the player (and the call was correct) or that the player got his foot on the bag with the ball still sailing over (and the call was wrong). There are objective realities which the tape will reveal.


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 25, 2012)

Hey Bob, it's your B-day, don't be mad. []


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

So, watching the replays on Monday night. I see the objective reality. The defender intercepted the ball. The Packers win a close game. I am not just being a partisan fan. If it really was a catch by Seattle, hats off to them, it should be ruled a touchdown, the Packers should properly lose a close game. But the tape was definitive, and what really happenened was an interception. No doubt about it.

 As I'm watching the game and waiting, I feel re-assured by what I've seen. The Packers won. Then the official comes back and rules that the call stands. I was totally shocked. I have never seen a play mis-called when there was clear and obvious evidence to the contrary.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks Cows. I feel better already from that.[]


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

So, after all that, where do things stand?

 Either, the ref who reviewed that play could not tell that it was an interception or he did not want to reverse the call for some other reason. I refuse to believe that he could not see the truth on the tape. No one who is the head judge on an NFL field is totally incompetent. He had to see it because it was plain and clear. So, what could have motivated him not to reverse the call? The only thing I can think of is that he was afraid to upset the crowd and incite more controversy. So, by saying that the call stands - he hasn't really taken any position - he just let the refs on the field call it. Stupid if I'm right. He should have called the objective truth. If he cannot do that, he shouldn't be out there. If you cannot trust the refs to be unbiased and fair, you have undermined everything. Might as well pay them to pick the winner. Ridiculous. Honestly.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

Okay. I'll stop for now. Thanks for letting me vent.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

So, in the end, I guess that I am forced to jump on the bandwagon. Replacement refs have got to go. If they lack the courage to call the game as it happened, it's time for them to go.


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## RICKJJ59W (Sep 25, 2012)

black and white. Stripes ? A Zebra could have done a better job []


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 25, 2012)

Thanks Rick. I really haven't had a problem with these replacement types. It's got to be tough with everyone second guessing you. But enough is enough. If you can't handle it you gotta go.


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## Steve/sewell (Sep 25, 2012)

My Daughter is a huge Packers fan, she is attending the University of Wisconsin at the Green Bay Campus Bob. I have had a mild tooth ache the last couple of days which turned worse last evening.I watched the game and as you and thought the ball was intercepted cleanly and the ensuing wrestling match for the ball was null and void at that point. With these guys already under a microscope they should have reviewed the play even though the refs in the review booths are replacements also it doesn't take 20 20 vision to see that the call was blown.I myself are an Eagles fan but I enjoy watching the Packer games because your fans are classy for the most part unlike the ones here in Philadelphia who view the games as war not a sporting event. Green Bays most important persona are the Packers. No other city has as much storied football history as Vince Lombardi's Packers did and still do.

 My wife and Daughter went to the Green Bay Kansas City last preseason game the week we moved our daughter out to her campus.I unfortunately was unable to make the trip as work wouldn't permit it so. All I can tell you is that it is a lot different then attending an Eagles game. The word my wife and Daughter used is class. The majority of the fans although rabid Packer Fans didn't threaten or throw beer or curse out any people wearing Chiefs Jerseys. It was more like a Friday night big High school rivalry game we have here in Southern New Jersey verses what we are used to in Philadelphia when attending an Eagles game. Getting back to the tooth ache I had just fallen asleep finally  and my texts alert started going off on my cell phone. I had to get up and walk to the area in our hallway where all of us keep our cellphones and lap tops, by then my impatient daughter out in Green Bay called the house line in which I had to run down to our kitchen to answer it. Recognizing it was my daughter by caller ID I said Hi Bridgette I know why you are calling and before I could get another word in she started to vent.........[]

 One hour later after rehashing the play over and over with her she still didn't understand how this could have happened. She did tell me the entire campus was in mourning and that none of them would be sleeping for a while.  We finally said our good byes and I settled back into bed only to have my Siberian Husky howl like a wolf that he needed to use the facility's outside . On occasion when he is let out after doing his business he gets side tracked and chases rabbits or whatever else might be outside. He also has been known to just walk in to my 3 foot deep Koy fish Pond for no good reason other then he enjoys being wet.......Well he chose last night to get baptized again and when he barked to be let back in the house 20 minutes later my spidey senses should have gone off......but they didn't, I opened the door and he darted past me to head towards his bed in our kitchen.  You could smell the pond muck on him for the second he whizzed past me. As I entered the kitchen there he was doing the dog water shedding maneuver dance in the center of our kitchen. I had to find old towels in our laundry room to dry him off plus use two hair dryers also. Nothing like wet dog smell when your tired and you're having a tooth ache........So yeah Bob I dont like replacement refs either.........[] [8D]


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## glass man (Sep 25, 2012)

I sure wish they could get it together before my FALCONS play sunday!!They are playing Tampa bay...a division rival..important game!!


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## SkinsFan36 (Sep 25, 2012)

I feel your pain. The Redskins were robbed of an opportunity at the end of their game as well. Ever heard of a 25yd penalty? Me either but we got one and a ten second runoff on a penalty when the clock wasn't running. Week before that we played the Rams and there was a shoving match at the end of every play. These refs have to go. They have no business being in the NFL level football. That INT in the GB game was as plain as day!! Did the two idiots in the endzone even bother to confer with the head ref after they had conflicting calls? Nope. One just caved to the others bogus call. Goodell harps and harps about player safety and turns around and does this because the refs want a better pension and a 60k raise per team? Single players have been fined more than that by Goodell himself. Bunch of BS!!


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## surfaceone (Sep 25, 2012)

They wuz robbed, Bob...


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 26, 2012)

Thanks Steve. Sorry for your toothache and stinky dog. If you ever visit your daughter, look me up. Maybe we could get a beer and talk bottles.

 Jamie. I think that the replacements will be gone soon. Too much heat from this (and all of the other bad calls and failures). If another game goes down like that, the owners are going to riot.

 Hey Skins,
 I'm looking forward to seeing RGIII. Should help the skins return to glory in the coming years. Good luck.

 Thanks Surface,
 I'm still not over it but it looks like they are going to have to move on and try for lemonade.


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## ktbi (Sep 26, 2012)

I'm a Seahawk fan and the only issue I have is that it should have been blown dead on a pass interference call and Packers win 12-7.  As a Seahawk fan, I am glad for the W in the win column, but Green Bay was robbed.  It was their game.

 As for the replay officials - by rule they can not change possession of the catch OR call a penalty that was not called on the field.  All they can do is determine if it actually was a catch - and are not allowed to overturn an on-field possession ruling. Sucks, but it is what it is.

 Couple things to remember:  we would have no football without the replacement refs, everybody on the field makes mistakes (dropped catches, missed blocks, bad throws - the list is long), this is the fault of the NFL and the Refs Union, the replacement refs are making historical mistakes and are in way over their heads - but it is not their fault, they are being asked to perform above their abilities. If the coach puts a quarterback in as a defensive tackle is it the QB's fault for getting run over or the coach's fault for putting him there in the first place?

 Hats off to Green Bay coach for putting it behind him, publicly at least, and focusing on next weeks game.


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## SkinsFan36 (Sep 26, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> Hey Skins,
> I'm looking forward to seeing RGIII. Should help the skins return to glory in the coming years. Good luck.


 

 Thanks, this is the most excited I have been in years for the Skins franchise. RGIII should be the greatest franchise QB in maybe the history of the team if things work out. By working out I mean us not getting him killed with Kyle Shannahans idiot play calling or him running for his life constantly behind our weak O-line.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 26, 2012)

Hey Ron (KTBI),
 Thanks for crediting the Pack with the win. My main concern now is that the Pack does not lose focus and that they get on with the season. One loss, outside your division, shouldn't control your playoff fate (if you will). 

 Some updates. The gentelman who called the touchdown was apparently deemed unfit (or not quallified) to ref at the division 1 college level. He was way way in over his head.

 Also, it appears that the NFL and the owners are now very close to a deal. They're going to have to wrap it up quick or we may have replacements another week. But if they get the deal done in the next day or two, things might return to normal by Sunday.


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## SkinsFan36 (Sep 26, 2012)

There have been some pretty good stories about some of the replacement refs. One got to ref a game for his favorite team that he publicly pulled for on facebook and another is a professional gambler lol. It's like they may as well be playing in the 1920's again.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 26, 2012)

Yea Skins. And more stories will be forthcoming. I've heard that many were cut from the lingerie league. They've lost every shred of credibility at this point. They will be second guessed on their GOOD calls at this point. They've absolutely overstayed their time in the NFL. Time for some refs who inspire confidence.

 Aaron Rodgers commented that the NFL in compromising the product on the field. Hang on. I'll find the quote and post it.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 26, 2012)

Okay. Found it.

Our sport is generated, the multi-billion dollar machine is generated, by people coming to watch us play,'' Rodgers said. "And the product that is on the field is not being complemented by an appropriate set of officials. The games are getting out of control.''
 Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/football/nfl/09/25/aaron-rodgers-replacement-refs.ap/index.html#ixzz27bqpQvND


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## andy volkerts (Sep 26, 2012)

[8D] The Sacramento Bee put it pretty much in perspective with the statement that the NFL in its greed is insulting and making fools out of all of its fans, wich means us, all of us who watch or pay to go to these games. It is all big business to the NFL, they are trying to get off with as little as possible in paychecks to the refs, meanwhile subjecting their bread and butter( us fans) to the incompetance that is currently the standard of refereeing of these games. WE ALL should just stop going for a week and see how they like that!! fed up fan.........


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 26, 2012)

Andy. It looks like it will be un-necessary to boycott as the regulars will be back soon. You can't look back at this whole fiasco and say that Goodell did anything right. He passed off fifth rate officals for several weeks who basically undermined his position by being horrible. After Monday, something HAD to give. If he wanted to take a hardline position he should have planned ahead. Specifically, he should have set up special training to prepare these stand-ins for the rigors of NFL refereeing. Too late now.


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## Penn Digger (Sep 26, 2012)

I watched most of the second half.  Couldn't believe the ending.  Seemed like somebody was robbed, but then again how many hands were on the ball?  The photo with the two refs ruling differently at the same time says it all.

 PD


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## andy volkerts (Sep 27, 2012)

[8|] Yeah, It looks like the fools came to a good conclusion for a change. Get some of the good refs back before any more damage is done to the games integrity. Now I hope they get back in time for this next weekend........


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## THOMAS1967 (Sep 27, 2012)

I`m glad the world can start turning again.Hopefully some of you can get some sleep now.[sm=thumbup.gif]


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 27, 2012)

Thanks Thomas. I need that sleep.[]


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 27, 2012)

*RE: REFEREES are back!*

The holdout / strike / lockout is over. The refs are back for tonight's game! You can just hear a collective sigh of relief around the league.


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## blobbottlebob (Sep 29, 2012)

*RE: REFEREES are back!*

The game went over without a hitch last night. Nice to have those guys back. Apparently, the fans gave them a warm welcome.


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## surfaceone (Sep 29, 2012)

*RE: REFEREES are back!*







 I can't remember the last time I heard the refs get such an ovation. I'm sure they'll give fans a reason or two to reconsider soon enough. [8D] Kinda Man Bites Dog story gone gridiron.


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