# TOWNSEND'S SARSAPARILLA



## blade (Apr 15, 2011)

I have the opportunity to buy a yellow,dark amber,Townsend's bottle. The embossing reads.
 OLD DR. TOWNSEND'S
 SARSAPARILLA
 NEW YORK.
 The bottle came out of a attic with no damage. What would be a good reasonable offer for this bottle ? 
 Thanx, Chris


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## georgeoj (Apr 15, 2011)

Is the bottle pontiled?


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## tigue710 (Apr 15, 2011)

If it's the old variant, and not one of the early toc variants then it is close to rare in that color.  The only one I've seen sold for 1200...


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## blade (Apr 15, 2011)

I think it may be pontiled, but hard to tell, definitely not open or iron. How can you tell if it is sand chip pontiled ?
 Matt I think it is definitely an older variant.
 Chris


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## GuntherHess (Apr 15, 2011)

is it embossed OLD DR. J. TOWNSENDS SARSAPARILLA NEW YORK or OLD DR. TOWNSEND'S UNITED STATES SARSAPARILLA NEW YORK? 
 I would assume the first one.
 I have seen them iron pontil scarred and smooth base.
 They come in some weird colors, teals and blues.
 Yellow amber would be an uncommon color for them.
 They tend to range from a couple hundred to about $2K for the best ones.


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## GuntherHess (Apr 15, 2011)

> How can you tell if it is sand chip pontiled


 
http://www.sha.org/bottle/pontil_scars.htm#Sand Pontil

 its tough to value bottles like that without seeing them because buyers are judging them on the character of the glass as much or more than what the bottle is embossed.


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## blade (Apr 15, 2011)

Matt, the embossing is just like I posted on this thread. I'll try to get some pictures of it next week if I can convince the current owner to sell it.
 Chris


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## GuntherHess (Apr 15, 2011)

Sounds like it could be a good one.


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## tigue710 (Apr 16, 2011)

Sounds like a good one... A sand chip pontil will be very distinct when you look at the bottle compared to a smooth base.  Often there is not more then a rough edged ring around the exterior of the base depression.  Usually you will find small chips of glass embedded in the ring, or small chinks of sand or other debris.  You can't miss it when you take a close look, it will be well defined.  As color goes amber is quite uncommon... If you have true yellows in the glass your talking rare... 

 The old dr townsends are normally pretty clean as glass goes for the period as compared to the dr townsends bottles, if it's really crude to boot your in the money... Also I do not believe they were pontiled outside of an iron pontil often...  Old dr townsends was an imitation brand that was put out to literally steal the dr townsends business.  There was a heated advertising campain in wich they claimed the original had stolen their brand and was an imposter!


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## appliedlips (Apr 17, 2011)

As the others stated, amber is a tough color in an early townsends. If pontilled, which it probably is IMO it is worth $1000+ as long if condition is good.


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## grugirl (Apr 17, 2011)

Wow... sounds nice for sure. I so wish you had a picture of it now. I hate when I read these awesome posts and I can only begin to imagine the beauty of the bottle being discussed.


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## sandchip (Apr 18, 2011)

I hear ya, Gru.  I keep imagining what this thing may look like.  I'm dying to see some pictures.


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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

Here's the bottle that I managed to get today. Pontiled age but not sure if it is pontiled. Any info. and approximate value would be greatly appreciated.
 Thanx,Chris


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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

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## william56 (Apr 26, 2011)

Guys - I was there when Chris got this one!  It is an Olive Amber only in the upper shoulder area.  The rest is too dark for light to penetrate.
 Now the key ? you are asking is - "IS THIS PONTILED OR NOT".  
 It has an "S" & a large 'dot' on the bottom where the iron pontil should be located.
 I ran my fingernail across where the sand pontil should be.  While it is very "indented" on the entire base & has an indication of being pontiled, I can't say 100% if this one is pontiled or not!  My guess is that the 'dot' & the embossed "S" would indicate a smooth base varient. The top is crude & the bottle is definetly "pontil age", but I wouldn't guarantee that this is a sand pontil.  
 I feel it is $1000+ just on color & crudity.


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## tigue710 (Apr 26, 2011)

Cant tell in the pics if it's pontiled or not, I would expect a sticky ball pontil on thy bottle, surely one of the oldest and crudest variants I've seen... I wouldn't call it amber but olive amber, black glass.  I'm not sure on value for that but I think 1000+ for sure... Mike or Jeff hopefully will chime in for that.  Sweet bottle...


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## GuntherHess (Apr 26, 2011)

Now that is an oddball Townsends.
 Its not even close to the other early OLD DR J Townsends bottles. Not sure what the story was on it.
 It may not be a Jacob Townsend or S.P. Townsend. Possibly some other copycat?
 I havent seen one like it.
 It appears to be smooth based but is certainly early. There is some deformation of the side maybe from the handling tool.
 The NEW. YORK. is interesting possibly indicating new york city as opposed to Albany NY. The extra periods seen in NEW YORK seems reminiscent of some other early bottles.
 I'd say its a pretty unique find.


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## tigue710 (Apr 26, 2011)

Here's something interesting, I thought I had seen a similar mold before but couldn't place it... I think this is the same exact mold, with either old pinged out or added to it...  This bottle was iron pontiled, and by far my most favorite townsends...

 https://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u143/tigue710/IMG_2338.jpg

 https://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u143/tigue710/IMG_2337.jpg


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## earlyglass (Apr 26, 2011)

It is very nice... that's about all that I can add! 

 I have seen this mold before, mostly in blue greens and forest greens. The font looks a little different but familiar... that may be a clue as to where it was made. Nice find Chris! 

 I would be interested in it if you decide not to keep it.

 Mike


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## blade (Apr 26, 2011)

.


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## william56 (Apr 26, 2011)

Gunther has it on the nose!  This is the same bottle, only add "OLD" to the one panel.  Am I right?
 If so, unique?
 NY City vs. Albany NY
 If it is pontiled, it is "priceless".


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## GuntherHess (Apr 26, 2011)

> Here's something interesting, I thought I had seen a similar mold before but couldn't place it... I think this is the same exact mold, with either old pinged out or added to it... This bottle was iron pontiled, and by far my most favorite townsends...


 
 Glad you found that , I was trying to find a photo with the NEW YORK embossing.
 There is an interesting story there if someone can fill in the pieces.
 There were so many lies in print in early Townsend advertising it makes it tougher to research the history.


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## tigue710 (Apr 26, 2011)

A very interesting story indeed Matt I think.  Here is what I believe to be the same exact mold used by both townsends, possibly stolen, or even another copy cat used twice by different imposters? Maybe the original Townsend, (I forget all the propritor names here), removed Albany from his bottles because of all the bad publicity?  Who knows... Fun to speculate... This bottle blade has found is a sort of missing link to me if you will... Exciting!


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## GuntherHess (Apr 26, 2011)

> missing link to me if you will


 
 Yes , it is the Australopithecus afarensis of Townsend bottles[]


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## blade (Apr 27, 2011)

.


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## sandchip (Apr 27, 2011)

Smoker!


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## blade (Apr 28, 2011)

For Sale if the price is right . I know Jeff ( kungfufighter ) has sold Townsend's in the past, hopefully he can shed some more light on this bottle.


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## tigue710 (Apr 28, 2011)

I've sold a few, wouldn't really know where to start with this one, except that I believe it's much more desirerable then the one listed below...

 http://www.peachridgeglass.com/?page_id=600


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## GuntherHess (Apr 28, 2011)

Its tough to compare Blade's bottle to the normal Albany Dr Townsend's.
 It seems quite different to me but I guess you have to start somewhere.


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## tigue710 (Apr 28, 2011)

I agree Matt, I would only put it in the category of Townsend... Its a decent starting place although honestly I've never seen a common variant like the one at peachtree sell for more then 600 tops... Last one I sold on eBay demanded 400 and I bough it off of eBay for 2...  Honestly I tink this old dr Townsend is upwards of 2 G's, but I could be way off there... But there, I said it!


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## earlyglass (Apr 28, 2011)

I agree that a more common Dr. Townsend should be in the $200-400 range, and this one is much better than that. I have seen these before and it is not unique but rather a rare variant. There is one in a yellow green color listed in Greers, same embossing. It sold for $180 back then. Honestly, I think this one is $1000-1250 range. The color is a dark olive amber, not the pure tobacco amber or bright color that they can be found in. It is a great bottle, no doubt, and I have an interest in it... but not at anywhere near $2000. I hope for Chris that somebody likes it that much!


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## GuntherHess (Apr 28, 2011)

Thanks , didnt realize it was in the greer catalog. i need to check that out.
 I try to stay out of the price discussions on the forum. It never seems to bring any good.
 People email me sometimes  and i tell them what I think but its just one more opinion...


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## GuntherHess (Apr 28, 2011)

It looks like #1303 in Greer.  I missed it because its stuck in at the end of the first part of the two part sale.


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## tigue710 (Apr 28, 2011)

Initially I thought about 1200... 2000 is a by far speculation on the very high end...!


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