# Some won't know what this is



## treeguyfred

Two months ago, I found an old collapsed house deep in the woods. Most of it imploded on itself into it's cellar. One side wall was partly still standing because of a very tall Frigidaire super heavy looking refrigerator was holding it up. I wish to this day I had my phone with me(the one time it wasn't attached to my hip) Anyways, I did some peeping and kicking and snooping. Next to the fridge, on the mostly rotted and missing floor that revealed a raccoon skeleton was this item. It had been used as a pipe ashtray there a mostly eaten (mice?)corncob pipe in it and of course plenty of mouse scat and ash evidence. It took a bit to reach it safely and bring it home and it was a monster to clean up, but here it is now.....




~Fred


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## Bottle 2 Rocks

treeguyfred said:


> Two months ago, I found an old collapsed house deep in the woods. Most of it imploded on itself into it's cellar. One side wall was partly still standing because of a very tall Frigidaire super heavy looking refrigerator was holding it up. I wish to this day I had my phone with me(the one time it wasn't attached to my hip) Anyways, I did some peeping and kicking and snooping. Next to the fridge, on the mostly rotted and missing floor that revealed a raccoon skeleton was this item. It had been used as a pipe ashtray there a mostly eaten (mice?)corncob pipe in it and of course plenty of mouse scat and ash evidence. It took a bit to reach it safely and bring it home and it was a monster to clean up, but here it is now.....
> 
> View attachment 221046View attachment 221047View attachment 221048View attachment 221049
> 
> ~Fred


First thing that comes to mind is a spittoon but I'm not married to that idea. Some kinda watering hole for animals-beats me


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

Vintage Bennington Pottery Sea Shell Spittoon/ cushions in Brown drip glaze?... How'd i do.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## treeguyfred

Right on bubba!


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## Bottle 2 Rocks

ROBBYBOBBY64 said:


> Vintage Bennington Pottery Sea Shell Spittoon/ cushions in Brown drip glaze?... How'd i do.
> ROBBYBOBBY64.


Its a roach motel...they check in but they don't check out..unless you leave the side door open.
I'm back on spittoon  speh-ting.


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## buriedtreasuretime

Bottle 2 Rocks said:


> Its a roach motel...they check in but they don't check out..unless you leave the side door open.
> I'm back on spittoon speh-ting.



Well, very good, the cushion part of the description is a real plus. It’s majolica pottery as well isn’t it, about 1884-89?


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## buriedtreasuretime

Bottle 2 Rocks said:


> First thing that comes to mind is a spittoon but I'm not married to that idea. Some kinda watering hole for animals-beats me



Sure wouldn’t want the job of cleaning that out! Great find


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

buriedtreasuretime said:


> Sure wouldn’t want the job of cleaning that out! Great find
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


That and bed pans. 
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## Bottle 2 Rocks

ROBBYBOBBY64 said:


> That and bed pans.
> ROBBYBOBBY64.


Its a doody job...oops spell check dirty job but someone has to do it,  and do it a lot back then.


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## Harry Pristis

*The corncob pipe is the clue -- it's a pipe ashtray.  Pipe dottle drops into the hole so it doesn't smolder and stink in the tray.  No one here ever smoked a tobacco pipe?*


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## Bottle 2 Rocks

buriedtreasuretime said:


> Well, very good, the cushion part of the description is a real plus. It’s majolica pottery as well isn’t it, about 1884-89?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I see one just like on etsy for sale. They call it Bennington.


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## Bottle 2 Rocks

Etsy


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

Harry Pristis said:


> *The corncob pipe is the clue -- it's a pipe ashtray.  Pipe dottle drops into the hole so it doesn't smolder and stink in the tray.  No one here ever smoked a tobacco pipe?*


Works great for either function I'm sure. People spit when they smoke. Both are nasty. Thanks Harry.


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## Harry Pristis

*Well, here's why I think it's a pipe ashtray (despite what the sellers on Etsy think):
1. It's too decorative to be a spittoon  which is a functional, out of sight utility.
2. The ridges and valleys substantially increase the surface area which would slow drainage and increase air drying of sputum on the exposed surface.
3. The "drain port" is too low on the side to allow much accumulation of fluids, and would increase the risk of spillage when handling.

None of these factors is a problem with pipe dottle.*


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

Harry Pristis said:


> *Well, here's why I think it's a pipe ashtray (despite what the sellers on Etsy think):
> 1. It's too decorative to be a spittoon  which is a functional, out of sight utility.
> 2. The ridges and valleys substantially increase the surface area which would slow drainage and increase air drying of sputum on the exposed surface.
> 3. The "drain port" is too low on the side to allow much accumulation of fluids, and would increase the risk of spillage when handling.
> 
> None of these factors is a problem with pipe dottle.*


I believe you Harry. Thank-you for setting the record straight.  I see some seller on eBay describe the fancyness as if it was a women's spittoon.  How ridiculous. Thanks again.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## UncleBruce

Harry Pristis said:


> *Well, here's why I think it's a pipe ashtray (despite what the sellers on Etsy think):
> 1. It's too decorative to be a spittoon  which is a functional, out of sight utility.
> 2. The ridges and valleys substantially increase the surface area which would slow drainage and increase air drying of sputum on the exposed surface.
> 3. The "drain port" is too low on the side to allow much accumulation of fluids, and would increase the risk of spillage when handling.*


A spittoon (cuspidor) would not be open on the side would it?


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## Bottle 2 Rocks

Too many images on Google search of many different types of pottery vessels just like this one or very close in design to this one, all of them called spittoons and none called a pipe ashtray, are they all wrong or are we talking about someones singular theory as being correct. Yes you can drop the dottle down the hole and I'm sure it was probably done. At 9" round that would be a pretty good sized ashtray.


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

No comment. 
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## Bottle 2 Rocks

One thing for certain is there is going to be a few xtra clams in Fred's pocket when he finds a buyer for his neat find.


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## hemihampton

Bennington is always that color. LEON.


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

Bottle 2 Rocks said:


> One thing for certain is there is going to be a few xtra clams in Fred's pocket when he finds a buyer for his neat find.


Couple of cactus berries and a pomegranate for sure.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## CanadianBottles

I'm leaning towards it being a spittoon because I think the drain is actually higher on the edge than it appears in the photo taken from the top.  In the one taken from the bottom it appears that it would actually hold a fair bit of fluid, probably one night's worth at least.  Since there are apparently decorated bedpans https://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/worlds-foremost-bedpan-collector/ I'm sure that there were decorated spittoons as well.  And it's not like spittoons were totally out of sight, they had to be visible enough for someone to spit into them at least.


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## treeguyfred

So, my friends... whilst I was hoping to stimulate vigorous discourse, my intention was not to create frustration... 
I actually knew what it was when I saw it and figured the individual that was it's last user/owner didn't know or care what it was ...he or she decided it worked as a pipe ashtray. I have had one of these before and it was quite similar.. but I remember it was somewhat different in that it's side evacuation hole was a little lower and the whole piece was just a bit cruder. I bought my first one at an auction in Sugarloaf N.Y. in 1985. It was well documented as a Bennington/Rockingham Shell cushion drip glazed cuspidor. They attributed it to the Norton factory in it's later decades 1850's to 1870's. Because of this pieces somewhat hurried manufacturing appearance and it pretty sharp details, I'm thinking this one was even later. I have done quite a bit of research about this piece and the Vermont stoneware & pottery ware. Many artisan craftsmen made their own style of a particular piece ( I've found so many variations of the theme, it has to be, just look around the interweb) I've found on just this particular piece dozens of smaller, higher, lower and different shaped side holes. The hole in the middle can vary as much as 1 - 2"! 
I actually agree that the sputum, if not well aimed, may slow and stick to the sloped sides..  I believe that this piece Would serve pretty well as a pipe ashtray. I imagine that it's previous owner might have something to say about that.... the corncob pipe appeared, from what was left of it, was field made I think and it was smallish, I thought it might have fell through the center hole a time or two.. 

So, to wrap up, it's pretty cool... maybe still an enigma or point of intellectual conflict, but it humbly and happily sits on the floor of my living room next to several stoneware jugs. And starts conversation when ppl come by my place, so I'm content too.
~Fred


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

treeguyfred said:


> So, my friends... whilst I was hoping to stimulate vigorous discourse, my intention was not to create frustration...
> I actually knew what it was when I saw it and figured the individual that was it's last user/owner didn't know or care what it was ...he or she decided it worked as a pipe ashtray. I have had one of these before and it was quite similar.. but I remember it was somewhat different in that it's side evacuation hole was a little lower and the whole piece was just a bit cruder. I bought my first one at an auction in Sugarloaf N.Y. in 1985. It was well documented as a Bennington/Rockingham Shell cushion drip glazed cuspidor. They attributed it to the Norton factory in it's later decades 1850's to 1870's. Because of this pieces somewhat hurried manufacturing appearance and it pretty sharp details, I'm thinking this one was even later. I have done quite a bit of research about this piece and the Vermont stoneware & pottery ware. Many artisan craftsmen made their own style of a particular piece ( I've found so many variations of the theme, it has to be, just look around the interweb) I've found on just this particular piece dozens of smaller, higher, lower and different shaped side holes. The hole in the middle can vary as much as 1 - 2"!
> I actually agree that the sputum, if not well aimed, may slow and stick to the sloped sides..  I believe that this piece Would serve pretty well as a pipe ashtray. I imagine that it's previous owner might have something to say about that.... the corncob pipe appeared, from what was left of it, was field made I think and it was smallish, I thought it might have fell through the center hole a time or two..
> 
> So, to wrap up, it's pretty cool... maybe still an enigma or point of intellectual conflict, but it humbly and happily sits on the floor of my living room next to several stoneware jugs. And starts conversation when ppl come by my place, so I'm content too.
> ~Fred


Thats a great story Fred. No more spittoons, okay? This incident will go down in the annals of history as the great 2020 spittoon war.  I mean pipe ashtray war!! Lol.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

treeguyfred said:


> Two months ago, I found an old collapsed house deep in the woods. Most of it imploded on itself into it's cellar. One side wall was partly still standing because of a very tall Frigidaire super heavy looking refrigerator was holding it up. I wish to this day I had my phone with me(the one time it wasn't attached to my hip) Anyways, I did some peeping and kicking and snooping. Next to the fridge, on the mostly rotted and missing floor that revealed a raccoon skeleton was this item. It had been used as a pipe ashtray there a mostly eaten (mice?)corncob pipe in it and of course plenty of mouse scat and ash evidence. It took a bit to reach it safely and bring it home and it was a monster to clean up, but here it is now.....
> 
> View attachment 221046View attachment 221047View attachment 221048View attachment 221049
> 
> ~Fred


One just like yours. Just wanted to throw it out there.
ROBBYBOBBY64. 





						18th Century Bennington Pottery Spittoon Cuspidor With Shells - Etsy
					

This is a 9 diameter Rockingham-glazed cuspidor or spittoon probably from the first half of the 19th century in Bennington, Vermont, where people where people in America were mostly making pottery with this glaze (imitating the British Rockingham Pottery in Yorkshire that initially produced a thick




					www.etsy.com


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## treeguyfred

ROBBYBOBBY64 said:


> One just like yours. Just wanted to throw it out there.


Ok, Robby this is back up info that kinda helps the argument , But! They even flubbed when they wrote the title of the item saying it's 18th century. And then though the glaze pattern is same or similar and the hole to pour out the collected matter is similar which also helps to point out that each crafter or maker accomplished the general pattern requirements satisfactorily but not exactly. Furthermore, the possible differing locations of manufacture could also point to the differences. 
....whoooof, just typed that like I would a long "Ace Ventura" explanation - in one huge breath. haha!
Thanks, this is fun,
~Fred


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

treeguyfred said:


> Ok, Robby this is back up info that kinda helps the argument , But! They even flubbed when they wrote the title of the item saying it's 18th century. And then though the glaze pattern is same or similar and the hole to pour out the collected matter is similar which also helps to point out that each crafter or maker accomplished the general pattern requirements satisfactorily but not exactly. Furthermore, the possible differing locations of manufacture could also point to the differences.
> ....whoooof, just typed that like I would a long "Ace Ventura" explanation - in one huge breath. haha!
> Thanks, this is fun,
> ~Fred


 Each one is unique. Personalized by the potter. Haha! Fred-Pet detective.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## Harry Pristis

*Etsy sellers are the source of expert information!     *


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## ROBBYBOBBY64

Harry Pristis said:


> *Etsy sellers are the source of expert information!    *


Your so funny Harry! I see more mislabeled items on etsy than any other site. My best deal were made there. They have no idea what they have.
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## Wildcat wrangler

Harry Pristis said:


> *The corncob pipe is the clue -- it's a pipe ashtray.  Pipe dottle drops into the hole so it doesn't smolder and stink in the tray.  No one here ever smoked a tobacco pipe?*


Hey...   that’s what I was just getting ready to say.  I bet that was fun to clean...  talk about stinky....


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## butchndad

i learned a new word today and it's only 7:40am!

dottle
[ˈdädl]

NOUN

a remnant of tobacco left in a pipe after smoking.


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## Van

Actually looks like a bouquet holder for picked flowers, a frog as it were.


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## Wildcat Wrangling Kat

It’s a planter? A bedpan for fancy a$$ed people? The top section for a water fountain? No, that hole didn’t go thru…. A rich kids potty chair? A short pedestal? The cats dish? A ring holder? Ashtray. I would think you would have to be an expert spitter if it’s a spittoon and I wouldn’t want to clean it but stranger things have happened…. A flux capacitor for a time machine?  The top part of a bird house as pictured?
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





That’s really weird …..   Im sticking with flux capacitor!

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## ROBBYBOBBY64

Indubitably Marty!
ROBBYBOBBY64.


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## buriedtreasuretime

Wildcat Wrangling Kat said:


> It’s a planter? A bedpan for fancy a$$ed people? The top section for a water fountain? No, that hole didn’t go thru…. A rich kids potty chair? A short pedestal? The cats dish? A ring holder? Ashtray. I would think you would have to be an expert spitter if it’s a spittoon and I wouldn’t want to clean it but stranger things have happened…. A flux capacitor for a time machine? The top part of a bird house as pictured?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That’s really weird ….. Im sticking with flux capacitor!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Could it be a sewer soil stack vent cap? Or is it too early a period?


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