# Ball fruit jars



## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

Finally got the boxes out of the attic. Have 3 half gallons, 4 quarts, 1 pint, all in this color.  All probably pretty modern, but one half gallon looks strange. Smooth on the outside, but looks like ripples or something in the glass. Will try to post a pic.


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## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

Guess I did something wrong. Will try once more.


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## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

Ah, helps to embed the photo. Here is another pic of the rim(lip?) broken area.


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## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

Here's a pic of the bottom. Someone has to tell me how to put more than one pic in a message.


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## dygger60 (Jul 10, 2012)

That is a nice half gallon jar....or would be with out that piece missing.   The disconnected underscore on half gallon jars are tough to find.....well for me anyways.....I have never come across one.

     I have found several (and own) quart jars and a couple of pints....but the half gallons are lots tougher...

     The waveyness in the glass is just a manufacturing signiture of the type of machine that the Ball Brothers used.

     I dont know how long you have been collecting, but you will find that ALOT of the Ball Brothers machine had something unique about them that would identify the machine type....

     Terms like "double or quad helix"....."double side seam"....and "Owens scar"are tems used.  Your jar....(and please correct me if wrong someone) may be the signiture of the "Bingham machine".....I have several jars of this era that have beautiful waveness look to the glass.

      With out that chunk missing....that jar would be worth a couple of dollars.....but as with most jars...you will find they are more common in some parts of the country than others......

      And as for the pictures....I have not been able to embed more than one photo in a post either.....

      David


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## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

Thanks Dygger60 for your quick reply and the info. I'm not a collector, just have a huge collection of dug bottles, and these fruit jars. (Not dug) I'm not sure where these came from. MIL gave me a lot of fruit back in the late 60s that she had canned in the 40s without sugar because of the rationing. Needless to say, we didn't eat the fruit, but probably saved the jars. Or they could have come from mom's basement after she passed away.

 All of the terms you stated are something new to me. Most interesting is "disconnected underscore". Meaning the line under Ball is not connected to the word at all? I have a quart that is like that. And on some of them there is a loop after Ball, and almost makes the word look like Bally? Do the numbers and symbols on the bottoms possibly mean where they were manufactured? 

 Because of health problems, and the possibility I am going to have to move to an apartment, I've started opening boxes and going to try to sell as much as possible. Have a lot of stuff that I know is not worth much, if anything, and going to take those to the Farmer's Market this Saturday.

 I have pix of all of the Ball jars, lids, etc. but need to crop them more for posting here.

 Thanks again.


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## RED Matthews (Jul 10, 2012)

Hello David.  I am in New York now, so I don't have access to my books on early glass machines.  I don't remember them mentioning the glass machine "Bingham"; so any information you might know about would be of interest.

 I wanted to explain the presence of the wavy glass in the mid-drift most fruit jars is created by the air cooling from the settle blow of air that comes down through the baffle closure, of the open top of the parison cavity in the Blank Mold.  This air pressure is used to push the molten glass down into the neckring (the finish Molding component), and over the press plunger that is resting up in the parison cavity.  
 The settle-blow air is often delivered through air holes in the baffle cavity that go to the tapered edge of the seated baffle.  However in the manufacture of most jars the air supply was too slow and a valve was placed in the center of the baffle - with an open core and holes that were then down in the cavity and provided quicker and more efficiency in the settle-blow cycle.  This air chills the glass all the way around the top of the pushed down parison glass so when the glass is blown up in the full parison form that wavy line is called the "Settle Blow Wave". as an explanation of what you see as wavey side-wall in the jars.

 My better half is calling me so I will come back to this thread to see what you have to say or ask,   RED Matthews


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## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

Interesting info. Thanks. I have a question? Are the bands of the jars put on separately? I have a pint that the seam through the screw band is off about a quarter of an inch from the side seam.  I didn't realize that until I picked it up a bit ago, so this pic won't show that.


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## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

This is the bottom of that pint.


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## RED Matthews (Jul 10, 2012)

> nteresting info. Thanks. I have a question? Are the bands of the jars put on separately? I have a pint that the seam through the screw band is off about a quarter of an inch from the side seam.  I didn't realize that until I picked it up a bit ago, so this pic won't show that.


 
 Ok I got the answer to your question.  But I tried to cut and paste the Paragraph I wrote to explain the settlewave and I couldn't get it to print in My Documents file.  I am sorta dumb on the NY computer - others also.  

 On the burst off finish jars the finish seams are the same for the body as they are for the molded body.  It was a mold with the finish machined in the top of it.  
 In this press and blow jar the finish is created with a neck ring and guide ring assembly; that the plunger is pushed up through when the press of the parison shape is made.  So there would be seams in a different orientation.  The neck-ring is carried in a neck ring carrying arm that transfers the formed parison to the final mold.  
 When the baffle arm is out of the way, the blank mold opens and the neck ring arm inverts and hangs the parison forms in the mold that has closed around the parisons.  The parisons are held hanging by the transfer bead untill the neckring arm returns to the blank side and a blowhead arm comes down over the finishes and compressed air blows the parison out in the cavity of the mold, which is closed around the bottom plate.
 I will look for a machine mechanism illustration of this mechanical action, and send it to you.  If you don't mind you can cut and paste these thread sections and email them to me.  RED Matthews   <bottlemysteries@yahoo.com>

 I also would like to realize that you have been to my homepage - because it is there for people like yourself.  I have spent my life in glass study, work and collecting.  
 RED M.


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## RED Matthews (Jul 10, 2012)

Well I just went back and reviewed the thread.  Now I realize that I was conversing with two different people and part of that is regarding two different jars.  The first one being the large jar with the detached underscore line and the second one being a pint jar with the tripple (L) underscore.  Now I need to point out that the round circle on the bottom of both of these jars is not in the center of the bottom of the jars.  This circle is the match of the baffle valve and the cavity machined in the baffle.
 The reason that it is not in the center of the bottom is that the centrifugal force of the inversion of the hot parison makes the vertical center-line of the parison swing in one direction leaving the press (blank side of the machine} and then going the other way when the arm stops and the mold closes around the hanging parison.
 If you study all the mechanics of making glass by pressing, extruding, floating, lifting, crown spinning, etc. etc.   It is a big challenge that goes beyond reality,. but it has been my life of interest.  RED Matthews


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## RED Matthews (Jul 10, 2012)

Well I am even worse off than I thought I was.  Now I realize that David was just posting his comments about the settle-wave in the Ball jars, and his related coinnents.  I guess I am just getting to old for this stuff.  I hope it helped both of you anyway.  RED M.


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## OldBottleDigger (Jul 10, 2012)

> Thanks. I have a question? Are the bands of the jars put on separately? I have a pint that the seam through the screw band is off about a quarter of an inch from the side seam. I didn't realize that until I picked it up a bit ago, so this pic won't show that.


 
 Thanks for the info. This offset of the seam is something that happened often, or is it unusual? I checked out your site. A good lot of reading there and very interesting.


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## RED Matthews (Jul 10, 2012)

The offset seams are in two separate pieces of mold equipment and so the seams in the threaded area were from the neckring.  The seams on the jar body were from the two mold halves, where the final blow blew the parison out, to the finished jar.  RED Matthews


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## deenodean (Jul 10, 2012)

your bottle looks like it is # 234 in the ' Red Book of Jars, it is the Bible for jar collectors price guide..( No relation to the legendary Red Mathews ) [].. value given for a half gallon Ball Blue with closure is $ 3-5 in good condition.


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## dygger60 (Jul 11, 2012)

Ahh yes the Red Book....it is a great reference....I have found though....not price wise....there are Ball jars (and I point these out because it is what I collect and have the most knowledge about) listed in the Red Book that you can not touch for 10 times the listed price....but again,  there are ALOT that do float around what is listed....

     But as is always pointed out....the final worth is what is agreed upon between the seller and the buyer.


     David


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## deenodean (Jul 11, 2012)

awe yes I was a little groggy Dygger60 when I wrote about the ' Red Book'..what I meant to say is that the Book is an excellent guide to jars and ballpark value ratings.


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## ajohn (Jul 13, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RED Matthews
> 
> Well I am even worse off than I thought I was.


 
 you're not alone sir[&o]  [] [] [X(] []


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