# New to the forum



## chisler (Feb 9, 2008)

Hi everyone. I'm new to the forum and looking for some input. I'd like to get some opinions on how people feel about reproductions and new bottle designs. I'm an engraver by trade.  My father and I engraved 99% of the plates used to make Clevengers bottles from the time Jim Travis took over in 1966. We also did work for Ed Johnson (Millville Art Glass/ Holly City Bottle). Since both companys are no longer in existence and unfortunately Jim and Ed are no longer with us, and my father has retired from the trade, I've started my own business (Holly City Art Glass) in an effort to fill a void left by these gentlemen.  Any feed back would be greatly appreciated.


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## KentOhio (Feb 10, 2008)

As long as everything you make is clearly marked with a date and initials or a name, I think whatever you make will eventually be collectible. A couple years ago on ebay I remember seeing Clevenger bottles being sold along with the slug plates that made them. That was interesting.


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## JGUIS (Feb 10, 2008)

Hi chisler, welcome to the forums.  I don't really have an opinion on reproduction anything, as long as it's never marketed as original or antique.  I say if there's a market for something, and you have the ability to produce it, kaching to ya.  It's the ones that are produced to copy the original, with no marks to properly identify them as repros, like alot of the Mexican and Asian ones.


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## GuntherHess (Feb 10, 2008)

What part of the molds actually needed engraved? I've always thought of engraving as more of a printing art than something used in glass making.


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## chisler (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks for the replying to my post.  I can assure everyone that I have no intentions of reproducing any bottles as originals.  My credibility is most important to me.  As for the engraving, if you look closely, alot of the bottles made by Clevenger, especially when they are done as commemorative or fund raisers, you will see a line around the logo or picture.  That is a plate, usually 3 1/2" or 5" in diameter, depending on the size and design of the mold.  That picture was drawn, then cut by hand using a  hammer and chisels. The plate is inserted in the pocket of the mold and then blown.  If you want to get a better idea of what I am talking about, please go to my web site at www.hollycityartglass.com.  Thanks again.


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 10, 2008)

Hey, welcome.
 A hammer and chisle to what kind of metal? It sounds like a challenge.I'd have thought rotary tools.
 As for a problem I don't consider commemoratives reproductions anyway. I think there a nice touch to whatever historic date, place, person etc. I wouldn't mint my own 100 years after I'm gone. I should pre-order and save the family inheritance.
 I don't suppose you'd remember cutting a plates for the Wellesley Mass centennial in 1981. The Wellesley historical Society took a wild guess at parepoint but really didn't know for sure. Thanks


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## chisler (Feb 10, 2008)

Being new to this forum, I'm not really sure how to reply to everyone at once. Therefore I will take answer one question at a time.  
 KentOhio- I remember seeing someone selling the slug plate, what I call an insert, on EBAY. I have many, including those that were used to make cup plates. I thought about doing that, including signing the actual bottle or plates, as I have many slugplates, however at this time I won't do that.


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## saphireblue (Feb 10, 2008)

Hey chis its me Jake how ya doing?  Hows the digging been going lately?  I was gonna go out today but we got a blizzard.


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## chisler (Feb 11, 2008)

lobeycat: I wouldn't consider making a copy of an antique bottle and trying to sell it as such.  That would be unethical.  The only thing I do with the slug plates (inserts) that I have, is use them to make suncatchers.  Of the plates I use to make suncatchers, I engrave my initials on the plates that are my original designs.  Here is some history on the Clevenger, Millville Art Glass/Holly City Bottle, and Wheaton Glass bottles, cup plates and sun catchers. You see, I bought the entire lot of plates from Ed Johnsons estate because I know the work that went into each plate, and it broke my heart to think that if I, or someone else didn't buy the plates, they may have been sold as scrap.  The people that cut those plates were, me (to a lesser extent), my father (Lew), and a talented gentleman named cliffy clifton. They were done for an average of $35 dollars a plate.  My father is retired and refuses to cut the plates and Cliffy has unfortunately passed away.  The story behind the blood and sweat that my father and Cliffy shed, and the amount that they were paid for it, will be left for another time.  However, when I tell you that people should appreciate the product that was produced, please believe that I am serious.  This is why knowlegeble people pay what they do for antiques.  Sorry for getting on my soap box.  hope this rant was somewhat informative to some of you.


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## chisler (Feb 11, 2008)

Hey Jake: Sorry, you must have me mixed up with someone else. I haven't quite gotten into the digging portion of glass collecting yet.


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## chisler (Feb 11, 2008)

Cowseatmaize:  The type iron that molds are made of is cast iron.  Most anything else is to hard or brittle and peels rather then chips, as cast iron does, which dulls the chisel.  Some people use graphite, however it is harder to get real fine detail in your picture, it is much dirtier, and being prone to wear, it usually doesn't last as long.
 I can't say I remember myself or my father cutting the Wellsly Mass. centennial plate, but I will go through my drawings and see if I can find it.  I've cut quite a few plates for Pairpoint, but mostly for the Violin Collectors and perhaps a few other club or historical society's.


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## capsoda (Feb 11, 2008)

Hey Jim, Welcome to the web site. Just checked out your web site. Some good info and interesting art there. Love the automotive sun catchers. I was wondering how many different cars do you do on sun catchers and what kind of time frame there is from order to delevery. 

 Do you do custom info on them? I guess I have alot more questions about them then I thought.


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## glass man (Feb 11, 2008)

WELCOME! I have a pretty green e.g. booze cabin,has a polished pontil with a hard to see c.b. on bottom.ALSO has a C.B under the door on the front of the bottle.Seems I read this bottle was made in 1965. IS this right? ANYWAY  I love this bottle because some one took the time and effort to make this the good old way ,with great craftman ship!


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2008)

Hi Chisler, 

 Welcome to the forum... I was just glancing through your post. It seems like the biggest concern for most collectors is the ethical one. Reproductions created in a manner that make them distinguishable from the originals without the ability to alter is is preferred. Obviously this has been going on since the turn of the century, and the Clevenger Brothers had a very long run at it. There have been many craftsman such as Emil Larson who created adaptations and variations of original works... now his own works are highly collectible, as they should be. Applying a sticker or etching initials on an exact copy does not work, and will only create chaos for the hobby. It sounds like you understand this. I'm sure there is an opportunity to continue to create commemorative flasks and bottles for events, display, clubs, etc. Glasshouses such as Dog River create some wonderful products, but will end causing some conflicts for the bottle hobby. These products look like the originals, and are difficult to distinguish even by a seasoned collector. Image a new collector's dismay when they spend $750 for a fake USA hospital water bottle! That "new" collector will find another hobby for sure. 

 Well, good luck in your endeavors, and thanks for reaching out for input from the bottle community!

 Mike


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## chisler (Feb 11, 2008)

Hey Cap: Thanks for taking a look at my site.  To answer your question, I have 4 car plates; a 1909 Packard, 1953 and 1935 Corvette, and 1933 Duesenberg.  If you were to order a new plate and suncatchers, it is about a 3 week turnaround.  This being a bottle forum, I guess it would be best if you e-mail or give me a call at the info on my website. 
 Thanks, Jim


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## chisler (Feb 11, 2008)

Glass Man: On the subject of the cabin mold, I wish I could give an exact time period of when the cabin was done.  The time period sounds right, but I couldn't give you an exact year. Harry Bearings who sells alot of Clevengers glass at his http://www.sweetdreamscreations.net website might be a better person to ask.


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