# blue/green l.deegan blob ( info please).



## anj2006 (Dec 10, 2015)

Found this in a late 1800's house demo. It was in the stone foundation.  I cant find any info on it or the  name???? A friend said its from pottsville pa and is pretty rare? Have a f. Deegan in aqua but no info on this?? Smooth bottom.


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## anj2006 (Dec 10, 2015)

Having. Problems getting my phone to upload new pics, sorry. Ditch...


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## anj2006 (Dec 10, 2015)

L. DEEGAN IN AN ARCH. ON THE SHOULDER. BLOB TEAL GREEN SMOOTH BOTTOM. SEEDS EVERYWHERE. THANKS. DITCH


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## 2find4me (Dec 10, 2015)

Nice Lockland Deegan Porter! That is indeed from Pottsville, PA. HERE are 2 variants listed, none of which appear to be the same as yours. A very desirable bottle, HERE is the green tapered version, sold for $405 in 2007. I haven't seen your blob top variant before.Also a discussion on the similar Jeremiah F. Deegan bottler, HERE. A rare and valuable bottle. There is also a J. E. Deegan Porter.I would also like to see your F. Deegan.


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## anj2006 (Dec 11, 2015)

Thanks i appreciate. The help. Have been a bottle collector for 30+ years and i have alot of pottville pa bottles. But i have never seen the teal plane l. Deegan. As soon as i figure out the up load thing i will post pics. Thanks again, ditch...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

From the link that 2find4me posted ...         &nbnbsp;                                [attachment=Deegan Bottle.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

The Hutchbook listing is incorrect - it list his first name as Lockland, but it was actually ... *                                                  Laughlin Deegan *         The 1880 U.S. Census list his father, Jeremiah Deegan, as a Pottsville, PA. "Bottler"


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

Correction ...                                                   (I need glasses [8|])       Laughlin was Jeremiah's father and Jeremiah is the bottler listed in the 1880 census


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

*                               1880 U.S. Census ~ Pottsville, Pennsylvania* *                Jeremiah Deegan ~ 32 Years Old ~ Born 1848 Ireland ~ Bottler* *                     Mary Deegan (Wife) ~ 27 Years Old ~ Born 1853 Pennsylvania* *                      Laughlin Deegan (Father) ~ 85 Years Old ~ Born 1795 Ireland * *[attachment=Deegan Census 1880 Enlarged (2).jpg] * *          [attachment=Deegan Census 1880...100) (898x950).jpg] * *[attachment=Deegan Census 1880.jpg] *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

Some of the dates are confusing but this one should be accurate - Pottsville, Pa. Cemetery[attachment=Deegan Jeremiah Grave.jpg]


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## Robby Raccoon (Dec 11, 2015)

What is symbolic of a tilted cross?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

What I'm wondering is why the majority of the bottles are embossed with J. F. Deegan but only two bottles I'm aware of that are marked *L. *Deegan? Is it a mistake or possibly a connection to the father, Laughlin Deegan?  Except I can't find anything showing that Laughlin Deegan was ever a bottler. ???                           [attachment=Deegan Bottle with L.jpg]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 11, 2015)

Here's an address for future reference - but I don't know if its residential or business ...                                                           *1890* *                                         Jeremiah and Mary Deegan**  &nnbsp;                                         162 W. Railroad Street**                                           Pottsville, Pennsylvania *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)

With Kevin's help and a new password I was finally able to log in, and just doing a test to see what happens with this post. I'm also going to attempt posting a picture and see if that works. As it stands now all of the previous images are gone and appear in code. If anyone gets an email notification connected to this please reply so I can see if I'm getting notifications as well. 


Thanks

Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)

Things seem to be working and I thought I add this to the Deegan discussion ...


                          I'm guesstimating that any bottle marked with ...

*                               J F DEEGAN / JEREMIAH F DEEGAN

*Date between ...

*                                  circa 1873  ~ to ~  circa 1910  *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)

P.S.

I just noticed there is no "edit" option but I'm not sure if its just me or if that feature has been eliminated. ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)

This is a test! I contacted Kevin and he said he was going to add an edit option. I don't see it yet but it might not appear until I post this first. Here goes - I will do an edit if it allows me.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)

Nope - no edit feature yet - maybe it hasn't been added yet. ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)

This will be my final test to see if an edit feature appears after I post this. The only thing I did different this time is click on the "Advanced" option, thinking that might be where the edit part is.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)

Nope - not in "Go Advanced" either. Oh, well, I'll just wait for things to settle in and try later.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 12, 2015)




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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

I thought I would continue with this and presume that the earlier text and images will eventually be fixed and reappear. All I know at the moment is that I can post as usual and wanted to add the following to the discussion. The attachment is of a ... 


*                                   1860 U.S. Census record for Pottsville, Pennsylvania
* 

                                    ... which list Laughlin Deegan as a "Bottler Porter etc." 


                             (Notice that Jeremiah Deegan was eleven years old at the time)


This, along with other do***entation I posted earlier, should confirm that the  *L *on the bottle in question stands for *Laughlin*. And because the *1873 *Pottsville directory list Jeremiah as a bottler, but no listing for Laughlin, who I assume had passed away by that time, I have concluded that Laughlin Deegan was a bottler in Pottsville between circa 1860 and circa 1873. Please be reminded that Hutchinson bottles were invented in 1879, so we can eliminate them as dating any earlier than that. Which takes us back to the *L *Deegan bottles between about 1860 and 1873. 

        First Question:  How do you tell the difference between an 1860 bottle and an 1873 bottle?

I have seen indications that the super-early Deegan bottles might have been made by the Union Glass Works in Philadelphia, Pa., but this has not been confirmed.

             Second Question:  Is there any way of accurately dating Union Glass Works bottles?  

*1860 U.S. Census ~ Pottsville, Pennsylvania*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

P.S.

If the numerous listings I have seen for J. F. Deegan / Jeremiah F. Deegan bottles list them as being worth $300 to $500, does this mean that an earlier [Laughlin] *L* Deegan bottle is rarer and worth more? And if more, how much more?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

The other day I contacted Tod Von Mechow, who has the soda and beer bottle website that listed Laughlin Deegan's first name as Lockland, and I sent him some of the do***ents I posted here. I just heard from Tod and he said he will correct the name on his next update. He said he got the Lockland name "from a collector." 

Here's the link to Tod's website for future reference ... 

http://www.sodasandbeers.com/


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

Just for the record, it's not me that is adding the *** to the word doc-u-ments. It's doing it automatically but I can't print the word its blocking out.


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 13, 2015)

That's like analysis all over again. Just in case an alysis


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 13, 2015)

Hmm, maybe I can be anal.
Oh, and nice research Bob!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

cows:

Thanks

Another thing I'm wondering about is whether Laughlin Deegan ever bottled soda pop? As far as I know all of the squat type bottles, including those with Jeremiah's name on them, are Porter (*B**eer*) bottles. I suspect the Jeremiah Deegan Hutchinson bottles are soda bottles, because as far as I know they rarely if ever put beer in a Hutchinson bottle.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

For future reference to aid in dating the Deegan bottles ...

Bottle Evolution

By 1870, the beer bottle had evolved into a taller more slender shape than the squatty Porter and Stout bottles of the 1850-1860s. Quart bottles became more common. Embossing done by means of a slug plate meant the same mold could be used by numerous brewers. Bottles made in the 1870s appear more “hand-made” than their cousins a few decades later. The blob tops were applied but not tooled. 

Be sure and click on the picture links ...


http://www.bottlebooks.com/beertime/understanding beer bottles.htm


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:


> View attachment 167504





All things considered, I'm tentatively dating the L Deegan bottle as ...

*.........circa 1865............*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

And worth ...

$???.??

(That's not my department!)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 13, 2015)

Hey, cows / Eric

If you are involved with the new set-up, you might mention that when I click on the email update link it takes me to the first page where the thread starts and not to the last post such as those you posted on page 3. Maybe its suppose to be this way on the new set-up, but if not, maybe you can bring it to Kevin's attention.


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 14, 2015)

I don't know what I am anymore.  I know in general settings you can opt for "newest" first. That may do it but mess up the way you want everything else.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

cows

I tried the four different options but none of them would allow me to go straight to the most recent post. When I tried the oldest first it totally reversed everything with the most recent post on the first page and the start of the thread on the last page, which is kind of weird. But I was able to change the number of post per page. Before changing it there were 10 post per page totally 4 pages. Now I have it at 40 post per page totaling 1 page. I noticed the text is back but the images are still coded.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

Please note that prior to this thread I have never heard of a Deegan bottle, so I am no authority when I say, regarding the J F Deegan and Jeremiah F Deegan bottles ... 

I am guesstimating the *stout* bottles date between circa 1870 and circa 1880

I am guesstimating the *Hutchinson* bottles date between circa 1880 and circa 1910

I have never heard of or seen a Deegan *Crown closure* bottle. Nor do I know how many Deegan variations there are, but there are a lot!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

Speaking of closures, they can help date a bottle as well and can be a study unto themselves. 

The first closure pictured below is the one that anj2006 posted of the *L* Deegan stout bottle - notice its blobish / rounded.

The second closer pictured below is the I posted of a *L* Deegan stout bottle - notice its flat-sided and not blobish / rounded.

Based on what I know about closures, the flat-sided example should be the older of the two.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

Because we know *Laughlin* Deegan was a bottler between circa 1860 and circa 1870, and that he had at least two variations of bottles, I'm guesstimating that ...

1.  The flat-sided closure bottle dates between circa 1860 and circa 1865

2.  The rounded-blob closure bottle dates between circa 1865 and circa 1870


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

This link is to bottle finishes / closures to assist in possibly narrowing down the dates ...

https://sha.org/bottle/finishstyles.htm


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## anj2006 (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks for the info people, the bottle is a very nice early  example  of the many deegan variants.  Been having trouble logging in and uploading pics!


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## anj2006 (Dec 14, 2015)

*deegan*

Still cant get the pics to upload???????


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

Uploading images is a little tricky but can be done ... 

If uploading from a personal file where you have saved pictures ...

1.  Click on the little picture on the above task bar - fourth from right - that says insert image when you cursor it
2.  After clicking on it, a box will appear - click on "from computer" if uploading from that file.
3.  Click on URL if uploading from a site like Photo Bucket
4.  If using computer file, click on "select file" which will take you to your saved computer pictures.
5.  Click on the image/picture you want to post. 
6.  The box will reappear - then click on "upload" and you're done. 
7.  Wash, rinse, repeat for additional pictures.

8.  If something tells you in red that pic is too large or not jpg, you will have to go into your file and convert or reduce in size  
     to about 1100 

9.  I can't help if transferring from a phone, etc., as I don't use that method. 

Good luck!

Bob


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 14, 2015)

If you get good quality pics that are cropped to a decent size I'll send you my email address and post them for you. I know the new site is still being worked on.


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## anj2006 (Dec 14, 2015)

Trying my hardest here to go about uploading pics!  Doing what sodapopbob said and it still aint working


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

anj

Does any text appear at any point and say "too large" or any other type of alert like that? Or are you just having a problem clicking through the various steps?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

I've been looking through numerous Pottsville *Directories* and found the following ...

Note: There are gaps and not a directory for every year. There were only two directory listings for Laughlin.

*Laughlin*

1869 - Porter Bottler ~ Fishbach Community - 74 years old
1877 - No occupation listed (Retired) - 158 W Railroad - 82 years old


*Jeremiah*

1873 Through 1909 - Bottler - Various addresses, most at 162 W Railroad 
1911 - Liquors - 162 W Railroad - 65 years old (Apparently around 1910 he ceased bottling and became a liquor wholesaler)
1913 - Liquors - 162 W Railroad - 67 years old
1915 - No occupation listed (Retired) - 69 years old


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

Speaking of Pottsville Directories ...

How would you like to have this one that's currently on eBay for a mere $799.00

*1860*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/401025511894?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&fromMakeTrack=true


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 14, 2015)

P.S.

Correction ...

When I first saw the directory on eBay this morning it was at $799, but I just noticed it has been reduced to $639. Wow, what a deal!  :fireworks:


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## anj2006 (Dec 15, 2015)

*l. deegan blob.*




SODAPOPBOB said:


> P.S.
> 
> Correction ...
> 
> When I first saw the directory on eBay this morning it was at $799, but I just noticed it has been reduced to $639. Wow, what a deal!  :fireworks:



Yea thats a heck of a deal,,??


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## Privyprowlerz (Dec 15, 2015)

*a good resource for these types of questions is  Tod's site      www.sodasandbeers.com

click on "Find Firms " 

and type in Pottsville 

good luck,

Jim 
*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 15, 2015)

This is the *earliest* confirmed date I can find for *Laughlin Deegan* as a bottler ...

1860


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 15, 2015)

This is the *latest* confirmed date I can find for *Laughlin Deegan* as a bottler ...

1870


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 15, 2015)

This is the *L Deegan* bottle pictured on Tod von Mechow's website and is described as ...

1.  Double Tapered Collar
2.  Hand Blown
3.  Cork Stopper
4.  Shape: Porter
5.  Two Leaf Mold

Note:  As I mentioned earlier, Tod currently list the first name as Lockland. I contacted Tod and he said when he does his next update he is going to change it to the correct name of Laughlin.


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

Am trying to do the pics from my phone maybe thats why it aint working for me .Thanks for the info, i like to know everthing i can on all my bottles. I am telling you see this l. Deegan you will be impressed!  It looks like it was made yesterday. It is perfect in every aspect...  it is the nicest  one in my soda, beer, ale, collection. :fireworks:


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

Its not letting me choose a file from my phone???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

anj

Have you tried transferring the pictures from your phone to your computer and then from your computer to here?


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

Dont have a computer!!  Always used my phone for everything..


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

Go to this forum link and see if it can instruct you ...

https://www.antique-bottles.net/sho...Post-Images-Videos-and-use-Tapatalk-VBulletin


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

This is an experiment to attempt an enlargement ...


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

*l. deegan blob.*


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

Holy lighting!!!  Its about time i figured  this thing out!!!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

anj

Congratulations! 

If you have any, howz about a couple of more pics - especially one of the base/bottom?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

I'm still experimenting - this time with a URL image (selected at random and unrelated to this thread) to see if it will appear in an enlarged format without having to click on it ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

If there is a way to post already enlarged pictures that don't need clicking on, I don't know how to do it and beginning to think it might not be possible. ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

anj

Like I said earlier, putting a value on mid 1800s bottles is really not my department because I don't collect them, but based on sales I have seen for the numerous Jeremiah Deegan bottles, I'd venture to guess that your older 1860-1870 L Deegan bottle must be worth somewhere in the $500 range. Hopefully someone with more knowledge about Laughlin Deegan bottles will eventually come along and be able to tell us more about them.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

I have just about run out of resources to examine regarding Laughlin Deegan, but I was able to determine that on Jeremiah Deegan's 1880 U.S. Census that ...

1.  Jeremiah immigrated to the United States in 1852 when he was about six years old - and assuming that he came to the U.S. with his parents, Laughlin and Mary Deegan.

2. Laughlin was living with his son Jeremiah in 1880 and was 85 years old at the time. 

I can't find a death year for Laughlin but know is was sometime after 1880.

If Laughlin did in fact immigrate to the United States at the same time as Jeremiah in 1852, then Laughlin would have been about 57 years old at the time. 

If Laughlin was 57 years old when he immigrated to the U.S. in 1852, and listed as a U.S. bottler at least as early as 1860, then I suspect he was likely involved with bottling in Ireland before he came to the United States. 

One of these days I will upgrade my Ancestry.com subscription to include worldwide records and hopefully find some records for Laughlin Deegan in Ireland prior to coming to the U.S. I'll bet you dimes-to-doughnuts that he was also a bottler in Ireland!


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

Let see if i can do this pic thing again, if i do i am going to play the lotto woooohooooo!!!!!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

anj

You're doin' good! How tall is the bottle? Compared to your hand it looks really small.


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

7 1/8th from top to bottom 2 1/4 across the bottom if i spin the bottle it is higher, the top is uneven!!


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 17, 2015)

You are appointed Bob. Bob is the new surfaceone, especially when sodas are involved. 
For those that don't know the reference, surfaceone was a member that had search down to a tee. He has passed away sad to say.


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## Bass Assassin (Dec 17, 2015)

cowseatmaize said:


> You are appointed Bob. Bob is the new surfaceone, especially when sodas are involved.
> For those that don't know the reference, surfaceone was a member that had search down to a tee. He has passed away sad to say.


Agreed. Surfaceone (surf) was a master in tracking down info on a bottle. I feel the same way about Bob.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

Thanks, but ... let's see if this works first!


This is an experiment to see if the photo editing I did will show the bottle in its actual size of 7 1/8" x 2 1/2" when you click to open it. I have a measuring tape hand and will let you know if it worked.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

Nope! It didn't work - so I guess I'm fired. 

When it opens for me its still a little small and measures about 6 1/2" x 2 1/8" but close enough for Government work!


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## 2find4me (Dec 17, 2015)

Nice one, looks like a new variant?


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 17, 2015)

Does it look like there is a hint of something below the G and A to you? That and do you think the length of the neck is something? It seems long to me but I'm not a soda guy.
It is very interesting and I agree, it looks like a new variant.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

It should have "POTTSVILLE PA." embossed on it under the word "L. DEEGAN" but I can't see it. Maybe its there but we just can't see it. ???


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

No pottsville pa on this bottle.. not even a hint of anything. Just l. Deegan.


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

God i love bottle collecting... just think i was not even going to go check that house out!!!!! Glad i did! Dont you all think???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

DEEGAN TIMELINE

(To the best of my knowledge - But with gaps for some years) 


*1795* - Laughlin Deegan - Born in Ireland
*1846* - Jeremiah Deegan - Born in Ireland
*1852* - Deegan family immigrates to United States
*1860* - Laughlin Deegan - Bottler, Port, etc. - U.S. Census
*1869* - Laughlin Deegan - Porter Bottler - Pottsville Directory
*1869* - Jeremiah Deegan - Teamster - Pottsville Directory
*1870* - Laughlin Deegan - Porter Bottler - U.S. Census
*1870* - Jeremiah Deegan - Driver - U.S. Census
*1873* - Jeremiah Deegan - Bottler - Pottsville Directory 
*1880* - Jeremiah Deegan - Bottler - U.S. Census
*1880* - Laughlin Deegan - Retired - Living with Jeremiah
*1880-1909* Jeremiah Deegan listed as a Bottler in various do***ents 
*1910* - Jeremiah Deegan - Wholesale Liquor - U.S. Census
*1927* - Jeremiah Deegan died - Death Certificate

Date of Laughlin Deegan's death is unknown but sometime between 1880 and circa 1885


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 17, 2015)

P.S.

Between about 1911 and his death in 1927, it appears that Jeremiah Deegan was retired and his bottling business was either sold and changed names or was just closed completely.


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## anj2006 (Dec 17, 2015)

Ill tell ya sodapop you are a walking dictionary!  I really appreciate the info


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

So this is what i gather so far the l.deegan blob stout. Is in the 1860 to 1870 range it is possibly  a new found variant?  So i gather it is a very rare possibly unique bottle discovered???  Man that would be awesome!!!  Am i right to say teal, or???  Does that sum it up? Or is there still more to be found on this bottle??


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

anj

I can think of a few things that are still unknown ...

1.  If Laughlin Deegan immigrated to the U.S. in 1852, did he go straight to Pottsville or somewhere else first?
2.  Where and what did Laughlin Deegan do between 1852 and 1860?
3.  Did Laughlin Deegan ever bottle soda pop? Or did he just bottle Porter ale?
4.  Did Jeremiah Deegan ever bottle soda pop? Are we assuming his Hutch bottles were for soda pop? 
5.  Is your bottle aqua in color or teal?
6.  Which of the three L Deegan bottles pictured here is the earliest? The latest?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

P.S.

Notice the word DEEGAN on anj2006's bottle is curved - but on the other two the word is horizontal. 

7.  Why?


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## 2find4me (Dec 18, 2015)

I think the 2nd and 3rd Deegan are the earliest and around the same age. Didn't the tapered lip come before the blob top?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

P.S. ~ P.S.

As far as I know, the J. F. / Jeremiah Deegan bottles, including the porter types and the Hutchinson's, all have curved embossing. 

8.  Is the curved embossing on the Jeremiah Deegan bottles a carryover design from the Laughlin Deegan bottle that anj2006 has? And is this an indication that anj2006's bottle is possibly the latest of the three?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

2find4me said:


> Didn't the tapered lip come before the blob top?




That's the current $64 question - and based on what I've seen, doesn't have a cut-and-dry answer.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

Which takes us back to this ...

https://www.sha.org/bottle/finishstyles.htm#Mineral or Double Oil

Click on the colored pictures ...

2.   Mineral or Double Oil
20. Blob

and study the dates, etc. for each


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

And what about these guys?  Are there clues to be found with them?

Digger O'Dell (Chart pictured)

http://www.bottlebooks.com/beertime/understanding beer bottles.htm



Some other guy (Bottle pictured)

And what do we know about the term "Philly Green"  ?

http://www.urbanremainschicago.com/...rican-bottle-with-tapered-collar.html#ur-desc


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

According to diggers chart the blob and the applied taper are the same year span (1840-1870)


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

And the applied double collar???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

anj

All things considered ...

If you can determine whether your bottle has an "Applied" or "Tooled" finish should help to narrow down the date.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

And let's not forget this!





anj2006 said:


> No pottsville pa on this bottle.. not even a hint of anything. Just l. Deegan.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

anj

Is it possible that your bottle isn't even from Pottsville?  Remember, we have a gap in time between 1852 and 1860.


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

I would say applied if you look at the photo of the inside,  you can see where it was cracked off the rod and the blob was applied.  You can feel the rough edges on the inside.


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Dang phone is not uploading again


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

I'd say we are making progress, but I just gotta ask ...

Is it even remotely possible that the bottle is from Ireland?


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Anything is possible???????? 
ATTACH]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

P.S.

Please check the neck ...

1.  Is there any "drip" glass below the finish?
2.  Are there any "striations" on the neck? Meaning, is the glass on the neck straight-up-and-down or flows as if tooled?
3.  Where does the mold seam end? On the neck or at the base of the finish?


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

natural light..


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Mold seem ends on the top of the shoulder . No drip glass below the finish but it is (crude) not smooth with a uniform finish. There are striations  on the neck minimal , there are amot of imperfections on the neck. If it was tooled wouldn't it be pretty much smooth?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

anj

Thanks for the pics - making progress - it does not appear to be tooled - back to that later


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

Correction ...

I was posting at the same time as anj and should have waited. If the mold seams end on the shoulder and there are faint striations on the neck, then it is most likely "Tooled"


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Ok so meaning?????


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

But if tooled would it not be smooth?  Without the imperfections?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

anj

Please explain in detail what you call "imperfections." 

For example ...  

1.  Do you mean wavy glass?
2.  Do you mean tiny holes where bubbles have burst on the surface?
3.  Other?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

While waiting to hear from anj about the imperfections, I just gotta add that what's confusing me most about the bottle is the lack of the words "POTTSVILLE PA" embossed on it. If the collared bottles are the earliest and have POTTSVILLE PA embossed on them, then why would Laughlin Deegan drop the POTTSVILLE PA on his later bottles?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

Shown here are cropped, sequential portions of an article by author, historian, bottle expert Cecil Munsey. This information will either help us or else cause us to become even more confused - with my hope being the former.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

And here's "Figure 9." that Cecil refers to in the article ...


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

There is a one inch( scar) starting at the shoulder going up it is about an 1/8th inch deep. There are two other indentations about 1 1/2 inch long , further up the neck. These are about a . 1/16th of a inch deep. Plenty of seeds in the neck just not at the surface.


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

pic of the top to show its unevenness.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

anj

Thanks for the additional pics - and still making progress. But let's consider this first before drawing any conclusions ...


Of particular interest in the Cecil Munsey article is where he says ...

"*Two* surfaces of glass *within* the mass at the bulb of the finish."


(I believe I see those "two surfaces" *inside* the blob of your bottle)


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

I believe so also, just not 100% sure!!!


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 18, 2015)

Those look like in the making. The first may be a long open bubble and some people are picky about that.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

This is a later (1876) finishing tool patent, but it will illustrate how a portion of these finishing tools went "inside" of the blob and possibly explain the "two surfaces" 

https://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/Lamontpatent1876.pdf


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Does that not show the inside throat being pushed out? Mine is morehour glass shaped .


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Should have joined a bottle forum along time ago, this is getting interesting!!!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

Note:  The finishing tool illustration I posted was just an example to show what they basically looked like and how they worked, with that particular one being patented in 1876. What we need to find are finishing tool patents dated sometime between about 1850 and 1870, which I'm searching for now!


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Sorry didn't mean to jump to conclusions!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

Here's an 1860 example ...

https://www.google.com/patents/US27...ved=0ahUKEwjQwoOKkubJAhVN_WMKHSTED4sQ6AEIHDAA

Note:  If we look at enough of these finishing tools, I believe we'll discover that all of them were designed with a portion of it that went *inside* the finish of the bottle.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

I especially like this finishing tool from *1856*

Notice the ...

1.  Rounded Sides
2.  Flat Top

https://www.google.com/patents/US15...ved=0ahUKEwjX5cvElubJAhVP9WMKHbvcCEYQ6AEIHDAA


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 18, 2015)

I think they just put a blob on THIS ONE. It wasn't uncommon to switch a lip treatment. It doesn't prove a thing though. Most data bases have user submissions and aren't necessarily verified.
It does seem odd on the dating for sure, the bottle seams newer the the timeline suggests.


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

I was just going to post that. Not quick enough i guess.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

This is a work in progress ...

There is ample evidence to support the bottle dates to *earlier than 1870*, which is when Laughlin Deegan retired and his son Jeremiah took over. 

Not to mention the "hourglass" shape on the inside portion of the finish ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

Of course the 1856 finishing tool could easily have been used as late as 1870 and even later than that! 

(To be continued)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

I'm heading out for the day but before I leave wanted to share these bottles for comparison. The Jeremiah Deegan bottles are from Tod von Mechow's website and the other one is the bottle in question. The yellow J Deegan bottles from Tod's site should date between 1870 and 1880, which might be when he switched to Hutchinson bottles - or did he use Hutch and Blob bottles at the same time?


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Boy this getting good, i researched Ireland bottlers and did not come up with anything!!!!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 18, 2015)

P.S.

In case you have never tried it, after you click and open any of the above pictures and get them going, just click on any of the "next - previous" options at the bottom of any picture and you can zip through them for better comparison and not have to close and open each one individually. Try it - its fun!


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

Have a good one my friend! Talk to ya when you get back. Maybe someone else will j and shed some insight on our discussion. Stay safe.... ( DITCH)..


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## anj2006 (Dec 18, 2015)

I will thanks. Still learning the site..


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

Ya no we have all these views,  you would think maybe somebody else would have something to say.  Come on people!! Where are you all at????????????????


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 19, 2015)

I got lost in the information. 
Where was the building you pulled it from? The dates Bob presented seam pretty clear but the bottle to me doesn't match up date wise from what I know, it seams a lot newer.  I can't help but wonder he UK aspect.


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

The building i pulled it from is or shall i say was in burnside pa. It is located two miles outside of shamokin pa. My friend said his company was ripping down an old house and there were alot of bottles in the basement floor. He new i collected so he told me to come out and take a look. Wasn't going to, busy as all out but said what the hell. GLAD I DID!!! pulled some nice inks inwhich there lies my passion!!  Have about a hundred!! The house was deeded in 1880 but all indication said older. Is it possible its from the uk, sure anything is possible. The small village. It was in dates to the 1830's. I have been digging and finding some real nice stuff there over the years.


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

I estimated the house was about 1850's


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

Alot of the homes around here were never intended for ling term residences, they where coal shacks built by the coal companys for there labors, my house was deeded in 1890 but we did some remodeling a few years back and in the walls where newspapers f rom the1860's . It is all german and irish around here and has been for a couple  hundred years.


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

Coal shantytowns! Hard drinkers hard fighters hard workers. And its been that way for along time


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

Boy i think everybody is taking the day off...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 19, 2015)

anj

Meet ...

James E. Fritz
Lake Wynonah, Pa.

http://republicanherald.com/news/la...-collects-antique-pottsville-bottles-7.456841

According to the 2013 newspaper article, Mr. Fritz has been digging for and collecting Pottsville bottles since 1982. If anyone knows anything about your bottle, he should. The attached picture is of Mr. Fritz taken in 2013 at the Schuylkill County Historical Society in front of his bottle collection that he had on display there. Mr. Fritz lives in Lake Wynonah, which is only a few miles south of Pottsville. I doubt the Historical Society will give you his address and phone number, but if you leave your name and contact information with them its possible that Mr. Fritz will contact you. If your bottle is for sale he might even buy it.


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

Thanks i will definitely do that, didn't give up did ya???


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

I was going through some of my books,  and one  of them American trader (bottles) 6th edition  by polack has a pic of the Hutchinson amber J.F DEEGAN  ... I THOUGHT THAT WAS PRETTY COOL.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 19, 2015)

anj2006 said:


> didn't give up did ya???




Nope - not giving up - just running out of resources. 

I checked Ancestry.com and found ...

James E. Fritz
Rural Route PO Box 751
Schuylkill Haven, Pa.

Born: April 4, 1942

Phone: 739-2841

But I'm not sure if this is the same James E. Fritz. Schuylkill Haven is in the same area as Pottsville and Lake Wynonah.


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

I am trying him right now¡!!¡!!!!!!!!!!!?????


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 19, 2015)

Speaking of resources ...

I gathered everything I have on *Laughlin Deegan*, including his 1795 birth in Ireland, his son Jeremiah, his Pottsville residency, etc., and found this ...

Laughlin Deegan
1827
Ireland Tithe Applotment Book
Tax Assessment
Country: Ireland
Townland: Ballycolla
Parish: Aghaboe
County: Queens


However, I'm not certain this is the right Laughlin Deegan - I only know this is what came up after listing all of his pertinent information. Nor do I know what all of the record is referring to other than it has something to do with land and taxes. But if it is the right Laughlin Deegan, then we have another clue that might lead to other clues, especially regarding where he might have been born and came from. The Pottsville, Pa. Laughlin Deegan was born in Ireland in 1795 and would have been 32 years old in 1827.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 19, 2015)

One clue leads to another ...

I found this shortcut to the 1827 Ireland tax record that has a +zoom- feature at the bottom which makes it easy to read ... 

http://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004239502/004239502_00611.pdf


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

Just got off the phone with mr. Fritz, 45 minutes worth of history and his personal interests. The l.deegan is about 1865 , and he has the same one. He did say it is very rare about 7 including mine known to exist. Thats nice. He actually said the l. Deegan is a convert from the j.deegan mold. The guy is a unbelievable wealth of info. We are going to exchange some emails and pics, he actually invited me to his home for coffee ( sweet)!!!  As soon as i find out more i will let you all no.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 19, 2015)

anj

Congratulations! 

Like you said ... "Nice" 

I can't wait to hear more! 

(I'm not sure this motion clipart will work - but I'll give it a try)


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 19, 2015)

F-A-N-T-A-S-T-I-C !!!!!:fireworks:


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## SODAPOPBOB (Dec 19, 2015)

Since the last clipart worked - let's see if this one does - after all, we gotta test things out, right?


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

ABSOLUTELY  MY FRIENDS,,( ABSOLUTELY) that works perfectly  sodapop!!! My lord i feel like a little kid that just received the biggest lollypop of his life!!!!!


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## anj2006 (Dec 19, 2015)

Never new santa was a disco man, go figure


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 20, 2015)

As long as we're in test mode.
https://www.antique-bottles.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=167902&d=1450555913

PS: until a figure out what friending means I'm not accepting or rejecting requests anj2006 or anyone. No offense.


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 20, 2015)

Nope, inline .gif 's don't work I guess.


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 20, 2015)

Nope, inline .gif 's don't work I guess. Maybe it's video? 
[video]https://www.antique-bottles.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=167902&amp;d=1450555913[/video]


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## cowseatmaize (Dec 20, 2015)

Drat!


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## anj2006 (Dec 20, 2015)

I understand that my ( acquaintance  )  !!!


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## anj2006 (Dec 20, 2015)

Sodapop i really need to thank you for all your help and direction,  it would not have happend with out your dedication to the bottle collecting world. Thanks to everybody else for all the help on this awesome bottle. Now,,, who has the inks????? I want them all.........!


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## anj2006 (Dec 22, 2015)

Hello cowseatmaize, friend,,, (hahaha).


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## anj2006 (Jan 7, 2016)

Just little update l.deegan mr fritz and i are having lunch on sat 1-9/ and of corse the topic will be the l.deegan!! He did say that when he seen the pic i sent him he is excited about the color!! He stated that the blue green is the rarer of the l. Deegan, and he only seen it one other time,,, when he found his!!!! I will keep you all updated!!! Thanks, (ditch)...


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 7, 2016)

Sounds like fun, I hope the weather is nice.


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## anj2006 (Jan 7, 2016)

Honestly there could be 2 feet of snow and i would still go! Thats how excited i am over this bottle!!!!!


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## anj2006 (Jan 7, 2016)

Ya never know, what tomorrow might bring right?


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## anj2006 (Jan 7, 2016)

is a nice pic of the l.deegan in natural light


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 12, 2016)

Hey, anj

How did the "meeting" go? Did you take notes? 

Bob


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## anj2006 (Jan 12, 2016)

Actually i was surprised !!! He basically told me the same thing he did on the phone!!! I thought he was going ti offer more then he did. I guess i just got my expectations up. We shared some digging stories,  and sime experiences, taught me a few things. And told me some good places to dig!! Man spring cant come soon enough!!!the l.deegan is what you said 1860-1865! He


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## anj2006 (Jan 12, 2016)

Said there is only 7 including mine. But this is the exciting part only two that are my color!!!!! Its worth is about $650-$850. And he wanted it!!! New he did as soon as he seen it. BUT,,,,, i kept it!!! I will not likely get a rarer one ever!!


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## anj2006 (Jan 12, 2016)

There is a rarer one, he said it is blue, and guess what he has it!!! He wants me to come to his house to show me his collection . He stated he has over twenty l. Deegans! His collection. Consists of over 1700 bottles. Nice.and thats just the pottsville bottles. He said he has a totle of 5000 + bottles. He has been digging an collecting for 50 years.


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## anj2006 (Jan 12, 2016)

Ill get back to ya's with more. Got to do something!!!


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## Bass Assassin (Jan 12, 2016)

Very nice glass!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jan 12, 2016)

anj

Thanks for the follow up. I can imagine your excitement. I suspect there are very few bottle collectors who can say they have one of only two known examples of a particular bottle.  

Congratulations!


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## anj2006 (Jan 12, 2016)

Thank you for your knowledge and commitment to this hobby! I will probably ne paver  get a rarer bottle! It was shit luck pardon the lingo!  I was not even going to go look at that house! Just think all the digging i,  hell everybody in this hobby does to find that one! And i find it in a basement  of a house that was being ripped down. Whats the chance of that??????? All i know is FREAKIN SWEET!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## anj2006 (Jan 13, 2016)

Sorry people had to split quick! Like mr. Fritz said be for the l.deegan is a converted mold from the f.deegan,  thats interesting! He said almost all the l. Deegan bottles are from converted molds! Whats that all about?  His display is unbelievable.  I am going to ask him if i can post the pics of his display,,, hopefully he will say yes, i dont see why not!! His den looks like a museum  the light is perfect ! I was very impressed with the pictures he showed me. There is versions from Ireland,  in the j.deegan form i would love to see them.the house that l.deegan lived still stands. He said he cant dig anymore because of health reasons, so of course i chirped up and said i would do the digging just point me in the right direction!!! He laughed and said he would think about it,  like its a secret only he needs to know and nobody else!!! Boy old time diggers are finicky fellows, lol!!!


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