# Comprehensive Guide to all Glass Vernor’s Bottles



## VernorsGuy (Dec 31, 2021)

A huge thank you to iggyworf for allowing me to photograph his Vernor’s bottle collection! I’m working on putting together a comprehensive guide to all glass Vernor’s bottles. I have many of the early paper label bottles, but fall short in the ACL variations. If you have a unique Vernor’s bottle (ACL or not), I’d love to see it. I’m not looking to buy them, just to take photos of them. Does anyone else collect Vernor’s bottles? If so, please message me or send an email to vernorsclub@yahoo.com. Thank you!


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## hemihampton (Jan 1, 2022)

I think you have all the Vernor's Bottles I have. I don't specialize in them but have a few. How many different variations &/or sizes on the Extract Bottles? LEON.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 2, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> I think you have all the Vernor's Bottles I have. I don't specialize in them but have a few. How many different variations &/or sizes on the Extract Bottles? LEON.
> 
> View attachment 233697


That’s an awesome bottle! Those early Vernor’s extracts are cool! There are major variations in the paper label that went on the opposite side of the bottle. There may be some variations in bottle type and font size. I only know of one other extract - a much smaller bottle (not in my collection) - from this same era. There are many different non-embossed paper label extracts and syrups. But, those are not as old as the bottle you have.


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## hemihampton (Jan 2, 2022)

It is kinda big, 8 1/4" tall by 3 1/4" wide. I know the Bryants & Hires I've seen are much smaller. I've seen pics of a couple other Vernor's Extracts over the years but don't remember the sizes, I assume smaller then mine, Just wondering how many different sizes this extract Bottle comes in? LEON.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 2, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> It is kinda big, 8 1/4" tall by 3 1/4" wide. I know the Bryants & Hires I've seen are much smaller. I've seen pics of a couple other Vernor's Extracts over the years but don't remember the sizes, I assume smaller then mine, Just wondering how many different sizes this extract Bottle comes in? LEON.





Mine are the same size as yours. Other than one very small one from that era, I’ve not seen a different size.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 2, 2022)

Here’s the small extract. I don’t own it, but think it’s about four inches high. Not embossed. Paper label only.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 2, 2022)

All the large extracts should have paper labels on them. There are at least four known variations of the paper label.


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## M.C.Glass (Jan 4, 2022)

Nice hoard of embossed extract bottles! Here's some less common ones I have.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 5, 2022)

MCglass said:


> Nice hoard of embossed extract bottles! Here's some less common ones I have.View attachment 233807


That’s a cool extract. Not many of those around. Was lucky to get a couple probably 20 years ago. Your paper label is incredible. One of the nicest ones I’ve ever seen. Thanks for posting!


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## hemihampton (Jan 5, 2022)

VernorsGuy said:


> View attachment 233748
> All the large extracts should have paper labels on them. There are at least four known variations of the paper label.




Interesting, Thanks for the Info. LEON.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 12, 2022)

MCglass said:


> Nice hoard of embossed extract bottles! Here's some less common ones I have.View attachment 233807


Take a look at my rough draft of my gnome paper label page. Compare your bottle to the information I have included. Which one is yours? Makers marks? Sorry the photo is so fuzzy. It’s just a screen shot.


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## iggyworf (Jan 12, 2022)

Excellent so far!


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## iggyworf (Jan 14, 2022)

Hope too see more soon!


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## M.C.Glass (Jan 18, 2022)

VernorsGuy said:


> Take a look at my rough draft of my gnome paper label page. Compare your bottle to the information I have included. Which one is yours? Makers marks? Sorry the photo is so fuzzy. It’s just a screen shot.


Mine looks like a PL G.002 With Heel marks 2253E and G23. Standard VGA bottom with a 7.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 18, 2022)

MCglass said:


> Mine looks like a PL G.002 With Heel marks 2253E and G23. Standard VGA bottom with a 7.


Thank you!


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 18, 2022)

Do you know what the numbers and letters mean? I think the G was an Owen’s Corning letter for beverage (not beer) bottles. The 23 would be too early to be 1923. The gnome wasn’t around until the late 1920’s. But, they also refilled bottles. So, maybe it is a 1923. What about that 2253E? Any idea? The pic I attached is an embossed bottle, but has a similar code with 1143E G25.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 18, 2022)

VernorsGuy said:


> Thank you!





Is your 7 like this 9? Right in the middle of the VGA logo. Do you suppose it’s a mold number?


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 19, 2022)

I’ve identified 12 variations of Vernor’s 10 ounce embossed VGA bottles. I’m only including “intentional” differences in bottles. That may bother some purists out there. But, I am specifically not including glass color, font differences or embossing depth. If the embossing reads the same as another bottle, it’s the same even if the talent of the mold maker is vastly different. (There are a TON of font differences and it would be a nightmare to try and catalog it.) My first correction, I think, is to move the BIMALs to the beginning. I would presume they predate the ABMs. Let me know what you think. I’m open to suggestions. Thanks!


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## hemihampton (Jan 19, 2022)

As far as I know the ones saying Food & Drug Act but not saying Guaranteed by James Vernors should come first & predate the ones saying Guaranteed by James Vernor. Regardless of bimal or abm. not sure the bimal versus abm is 100% accurate as predating the abm, makes sense that it should be but I don't think it always is. No pic of #15? my #15 has no Capacity or Contents listed probably predating the 1913 Gould Act that required it. LEON.


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## M.C.Glass (Jan 20, 2022)

VernorsGuy said:


> View attachment 234141
> Is your 7 like this 9? Right in the middle of the VGA logo. Do you suppose it’s a mold number?


My bet is the bottom # is the date. The bottom molds are separate from the main molds, I thought. 
It probably doesn’t matter, but on second look, my G looks like 28 not 23.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 20, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> As far as I know the ones saying Food & Drug Act but not saying Guaranteed by James Vernors should come first & predate the ones saying Guaranteed by James Vernor. Regardless of bimal or abm. not sure the bimal versus abm is 100% accurate as predating the abm, makes sense that it should be but I don't think it always is. No pic of #15? my #15 has no Capacity or Contents listed probably predating the 1913 Gould Act that required it. LEON.


Thanks, Leon! Numbers 13, 14 & 15 are 1 pint 8 ounce bottles. Haven’t quite finished that part. Do any of your 10 ounce VGA embossed have no capacity listed? My current theory is maybe Vernor’s didn’t use 10 ounce bottles until 1906/07. I’m 98% positive he used siphons in 1896. So, it would make sense that his next move would be another large capacity bottle; the 1 pint 8 ounce bottle.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 20, 2022)

MCglass said:


> My bet is the bottom # is the date. The bottom molds are separate from the main molds, I thought.
> It probably doesn’t matter, but on second look, my G looks like 28 not 23.


Thank you, MC! It’s interesting and maybe we can figure it out with more examples. The G numbers seem consistent (so far) in the 20’s, which is why I jumped to the date conclusion. However, I read that Owens Corning used a one digit date code. (Not that these are Owens Corning. I don’t know who made them.) Also killing my theory is one of the VGA bottles, which are for sure 1910’s or earlier, has a G 25.


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## hemihampton (Jan 20, 2022)

VernorsGuy said:


> Thanks, Leon! Numbers 13, 14 & 15 are 1 pint 8 ounce bottles. Haven’t quite finished that part. Do any of your 10 ounce VGA embossed have no capacity listed? My current theory is maybe Vernor’s didn’t use 10 ounce bottles until 1906/07. I’m 98% positive he used siphons in 1896. So, it would make sense that his next move would be another large capacity bottle; the 1 pint 8 ounce bottle.


Is there any like #15 that does have Contents size listed? my only 10 oz. with no capacity are the 1906 food & drugs act. SO, I'm guessing you may be wondering like me what Bottle did Vernors have in between 1896 & 1906? Was it only the Seltzer &/or Syrup Bottle or was there another Bottle similar to the 1906 Bottle but Predating it? LEON.


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 22, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> Is there any like #15 that does have Contents size listed? my only 10 oz. with no capacity are the 1906 food & drugs act. SO, I'm guessing you may be wondering like me what Bottle did Vernors have in between 1896 & 1906? Was it only the Seltzer &/or Syrup Bottle or was there another Bottle similar to the 1906 Bottle but Predating it? LEON.


I have an article from 1898 talking about James Vernor taking siphons of Vernor’s to the hospital. If he had bottles, he would have taken them! In 1900, his stationery still had a siphon on it. I have a one quart (1 pint 8 ounce) bottle with the diamond shaped paper label. It has no contents embossed or on the paper label. It’s also a BIMAL. Maybe that was his transitional bottle for a few years between siphons and those 1906 embossed bottles. The confusing part is, there is a 1911 trademark application for that diamond shaped paper label. But, it’s not the exact same label as the one on the bottle. And, I’m not sure Mr. Vernor was always prompt with his government paperwork!


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## VernorsGuy (Jan 23, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> Is there any like #15 that does have Contents size listed? my only 10 oz. with no capacity are the 1906 food & drugs act. SO, I'm guessing you may be wondering like me what Bottle did Vernors have in between 1896 & 1906? Was it only the Seltzer &/or Syrup Bottle or was there another Bottle similar to the 1906 Bottle but Predating it? LEON.


Today someone from the Metropolitan Detroit Antique Bottle Club came over to look at my Vernor’s bottles. Together we came to this conclusion.  
From 1896 to about 1904 Vernor’s used siphons. In 1904 he switched over to a 1 pint 8 ounce paper label BIMAL bottle with embossing only on the bottom. Around 1907 that bottle turned into an ABM. In 1911 the paper label changed slightly. In the 10 ounce size, those began in 1906/07 with the Food and Drugs Act embossing in BIMAL bottles. They still made the embossed bottles as late as 1931.


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## mctaggart67 (Jan 26, 2022)

Les Morris Beverages Ltd., Sarnia, Ontario had this quart. Early in my collecting I'd occasionally call Les Morris and ask about his experiences as a pop bottler. I asked him specifically about this bottle, and he noted that he got taken in by a glassworks salesman and ordered a whack of these bottles. Vernor's Canada, then in Windsor, I think, expressed their disastifaction to Les, as he had invalidated his licensing terms with repsect to not messing with Vernor's branding by noting his company name on the bottle. To keep bottling Vernor's, Les agreed to destroy all of the custom jobbies he could get back. A few, obviously, survived. They are very rare.


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