# New to Bottle Collecting and found some today!  Need advise....



## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 9, 2018)

Good evening......new to bottle collecting and picked up my first three at an estate sale today.  Anything you can tell me about them would be great.  I’ve been hesitant to purchase due to the number of fakes floating around.  Thanks in advance!

The first says old sachim bitters and wigwam tonic

The second says 1872 Doyle hop bitters.

The third says 1860 plantation x bitters.


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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 9, 2018)

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In my opinion three excellent bottles to start a collection with!!
For more information on each I would strongly recommend checking out the following links.

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https://www.peachridgeglass.com/2012/07/barrel-series-old-sachem-bitters-and-wigwam-tonic/


https://www.peachridgeglass.com/2014/01/the-doyles-soules-hop-bitters-rochester-n-y/


https://www.peachridgeglass.com/2012/11/log-cabin-series-drakes-plantation-bitters/

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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 9, 2018)

Is this the same bottle that I have?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Antique-Am...:pkEAAOSws5BajMjq:sc:USPSPriority!89129!US!-1


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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 9, 2018)

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It is the same type of bottle but take that price with a very large pinch of salt, way overpriced for one of the commoner varieties.
In my view many of the bottle put up by that particular vendor are well over the top pricewise.
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Below are links to three reputable auction houses, view their back catalogues for a realistic view of the prices being paid.
You must also remember they are generally putting out top end bottles and commoner types or variations can be bought much more cheaply.
If you can, get along to some shows to get a really good overview of prices and join a club if there is one local to you.
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Generally speaking the value of antique bottles, as is the case in many other fields of collecting, will be
 determined by rarity tempered with variation of type, colour, condition and desirability.
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Not all rare bottles have 'eye appeal' so may be cheaper than a more common bottle that has that eye appeal desirability.

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https://americanglassgallery.com/auctions/past-auction


http://www.glswrk-auction.com/


https://www.hecklerauction.com/auctions/past/

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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 9, 2018)

Sounds great, thank you!  Do you think the ones I purchased are real?


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 9, 2018)

Also, they had other glass but they weren’t labeled, what do you think?


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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 9, 2018)

Jeffsteph803 said:


> Sounds great, thank you!  Do you think the ones I purchased are real?




Yes

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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 9, 2018)

Jeffsteph803 said:


> Also, they had other glass but they weren’t labeled, what do you think?




It looks interesting but you would need to provide clear images of the lip and base.
It would also probably need someone with much more expertise in early American glass than I have to give an opinion.

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## CanadianBottles (Nov 9, 2018)

Those are some beautiful bottles you've got there!  A far better start to a collection than most get.  The fourth bottle looks interesting, it doesn't look like anything I see turning up often but just based off what you found together with it it's certainly got good potential to be something special.  I think it's some sort of decanter, rather than something that a product would have been sold in.


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 9, 2018)

What do you believe the value of the three bottles I bought are?


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## hemihampton (Nov 10, 2018)

This on got $71 on ebay with damage but cool dark purple amethyst color. LEON.

P.S. Chipped lip on yours will greatly affect value.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-ANTIQ...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## hemihampton (Nov 10, 2018)

Here's a nice one that got $365. I think a more realistic price. LEON.


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Very-nice-...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## hemihampton (Nov 10, 2018)

Always a bunch of Drakes on ebay. LEON.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nk...lc=1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1


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## hemihampton (Nov 10, 2018)

Doyles common unless oddball color. LEON.



https://www.ebay.com/sch/Bottles-In...1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1&_nkw=DOYLES


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 10, 2018)

Thanks for the help Leon, I appreciate it.  I went backed today and purchased the rest of the bottles.  Below are the pictures of the bottles I bought.  Does anything stand out?


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 10, 2018)

Sorry the last picture is a duplicate.


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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 10, 2018)

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That is a great looking selection of bottles and flasks with some potentially valuable pieces amongst them.
The amber calabash in the second image, the pitcher and two decanters in the third image
 and all of the historical flasks (those embossed with eagles, cornucopias etc.) are all stand out pieces
 They would need expert examination and appraisal to first establish that they are genuine examples.
Once confirmed the current market value could be assessed based on the criteria given in a previous reply.

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## sandchip (Nov 10, 2018)

Shame about the chip on the Old Sachem.  Exceptional color for one of those where the lighter the better rules.  I wish I could've run across a sale like that when I was getting started.  Hell, 44 years into collecting, and I'm still waiting to run across a sale like that!


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 10, 2018)

I’ve been studying the bottles and believe that the two below are reproductions....what’s your opinion?


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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 10, 2018)

Jeffsteph803 said:


> I’ve been studying the bottles and believe that the two below are reproductions....what’s your opinion?



From the photograph they look convincing enough.
What is it about them that makes you think they are reproduction?
Without being able to handle them the dimensions and clear straight on images
 of the front, rear and bases would help in assessing them.
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The following site is one worth looking at if you haven't already concerning the identification of bottles:

https://sha.org/bottle/index.htm

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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 10, 2018)

I took some more pictures, what threw me off was the flat tops of the bottles.


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 10, 2018)

Sry to keep bothering y’all but I have so many questions and internet research is only getting me so far. Does anybody have any info on this bottle?  I can’t find it anywhere.


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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 10, 2018)

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Having seen the bases of the two suspected reproduction flasks I would now agree, reproductions.
On flasks of this type you would be looking for pontils something similar to those shown in the
photograph below which are a couple of examples from my own collection.

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In respect of the flask you have annotated as 'Bottle 14' it has all the appearances of a late bottle.
I'm not sure you could describe it as a reproduction as I don't think it is actually reproducing any known examples?
Possibly best described as a 'Vintage Style Reproduction'!!

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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 10, 2018)

Thank you for the info.....let’s hope I didn’t overpay for the collection.


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## CanadianBottles (Nov 10, 2018)

Yeah it's an odd collection, a mix of some beautiful specimins of early American glass, some modern Pier One Imports decorative type stuff, and a couple of near-worthless common liquor bottles.  Still, there is a good number of genuine ones there, so assuming you didn't pay a massive amount you likely got your money's worth.  
Going through the pictures you've posted so far I'd say: Picture 1 - the little blue one is modern and I think the other two are antiques but not sure what they actually are.  Picture 2 - middle flask is likely genuine but not certain, round green one is probably modern, case gin is antique but pretty common.  Picture 3 - Too far outside my area of knowledge to say for sure but I'd guess antique.  Picture 4 - two on the left are modern, second from right looks interesting but I really don't know what it is, far right is a common UK gin ca. 1910.  Picture 5 - Two on the left are very good flasks, second from right is a common post-prohibition bottle, far right I can't see what it is but doesn't look too old.   Picture 6 - all but the far right look very good.


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## hemihampton (Nov 11, 2018)

The 2 Green flask looked like reproductions to me. SO, I'd have a professional appraiser/Bottle Expert analyze the rest to verify Authentic & not reproductions. Just my ameture opinion, I'm no bottle expert. LEON.


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 11, 2018)

These are the bottles that I believe have value as well with some better pictures.  Thanks for all of the help!


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## Old Wiltshire (Nov 11, 2018)

Jeffsteph803 said:


> These are the bottles that I believe have value as well with some better pictures.  Thanks for all of the help!


They all look good but I would certainly think about getting an expert opinion on the pitcher and decanters.
Genuine 3 piece mold items such as these can command premium prices

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It should be borne in mind, however, that many similar reproduction pieces were manufactured by the Clevenger Brothers.

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A useful link concerning the Clevenger Brothers which includes some of the diagnostic tell tales to identify their pieces.

https://www.realorrepro.com/article/Have-you-been-fooled-by-the-Clevengers?

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The Metropolitan Museum of Art also commissioned reproduction 3 piece mold items 
in the 1970's such as the one shown below from my own collection. 
These, however, are easily identified with the embossed MMA mark incorporated into the design.

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## sandchip (Nov 12, 2018)

You didn't waste any time.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Color...m=362484395501&_trksid=p2047675.c100011.m1850


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## Jeffsteph803 (Nov 12, 2018)

Sure didn’t, I posted them in the sale section here as well.  I didn’t realize the value of some of these.  I’ll be keeping some but selling the more expensive ones.  The beauty of collecting......


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## saratogadriver (Nov 13, 2018)

Flask bottle #6 is a repro.  The rest all appear to be the real McCoy...

Jim G


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## American (Nov 21, 2018)

Good job.  Nobody seeing this will ever wonder what is meant by three mold anymore.


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## saratogadriver (Nov 26, 2018)

Correct those two are indeed reproductions.  You've got a mix of repro/modern stuff and some NICE real and old stuff.   The amber hunter/fisherman calabash flask is a nice one, and most of the aqua flasks with people/stuff embossed on them are the real deal.   condition is king.  Pity the old sachem barrel has the lip chips, as that definitely hurts value.   Every flask with an eagle is real and pre-1870 except the really bright green one.  The flask with the sheaf of wheat on it is 1850s Connecticut.    You'd need a blown three mold expert on the pitcher and decanters.  I THINK those are 20th century but I'm not an expert.  

Jim G


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## saratogadriver (Nov 26, 2018)

Bottle 6 is a repro.  Rest are antique 

Jim G


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