# Cincy whiskey



## crozet86 (Mar 13, 2010)

Found this one this morning and was wondering if anyone knows anything about it. It is embossed in slugplate:FERDINAND WESTHEIMER & SONS CINCINNNATI,OHIO. I googled but all i could find out iss they were whiskey dealers from 1880's to about 1915.Only could find one picture of a bottle of theirs and nothing like this one.Any info is appreciated.


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## marjorie040 (Mar 13, 2010)

Hello crozet86,
 FYI
 In my research I found Ferdinand Westheimer was born in Damstadt, Germany in 1825 and emigrated to this country in 1847. He is in the 1850 census for New York and is listed as a "peddler".
 By 1870 He had settled in St. Joseph, Mo and was a "merchant".
 In 1880 his occupation turned to "wholesale liquor" and he had 8 sons. Two of his sons, Morris or Maurice, both names are listed in the census'  and Leo or Lewin were "liquor dealers" in Cinncinnati ...hence Ferdinand Westheimer & Sons By 1920 Morris was apparently retired since he had no occupation listed in the census. I don't know the date of death of Ferdinand but your dates on the bottle seem correct based on my searches.  
 It's a great bottle!
 Regards,


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## crozet86 (Mar 13, 2010)

Marjorie thanks so much for your research on this. Im thinking this bottle is probally right at the turn of the century maybe a little before. I was surprised it was a cincinnati bottle after i wiped off the embossing...there are quite a few local whiskeys near me that i would love to dig but im happy with this one.


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## surfaceone (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey Crozet,

 Methinks you'd best tune up yer googler. Mebbe, it was that 4th "N" in Cincinnati. [8D] Here's a previous discussion in these pages: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 from https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-114824/tm.htm

 This Red Top Rye 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 sold here for $20.

 Here's one misidentified as a beer 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


@ this place.

 There's a fancy SCA one on fleabay in the remaining hours of it's listing for a starting bid of $27.99 with no takers to date.

 Found this "question" to Digger Odell "Subject: Ferdinand Westheimer bottle

 Date: 01/27/2007 10:16:58 PM

  Hi! I found a lot of history about this Cincinnati whisky distiller and philanthropist. He is best known as the founder of Big Brothers and Big Sisters of America. The bottle is dark brown, squarish, 5 1/2 " to the neck and 7 1/2" overall. It is almost 4" wide and 2" deep. It has Ferdinand Westheimer and Son Cincinnati, USA in a circular pattern on the side. No other markings. Excellent condition with no damage. It has a matching flat, brown glass stopper that is exactly the size of the bottle neck but the tail of the stopper that goes inside is much smaller than the inside of the bottle neck. As if maybe the stopper had a cork ring around it or is not the proper stopper. I would like your opinion as to whether the stopper is original and an estimated value. Thanks! Ron Cravens, Texas" From January 2007.

 Actually, from what I can determine, Big Brothers was started by Irvin Ferdinand Westheimer, the last son of Ferdinand Westheimer & Sarah Flarsheim, according to this geneological record. Here's Irvin 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, who was honored as a Great Living Cincinnatian, in 1973, seven years before his death.






 Ferdinand, the progenitor, is pictured here, great-grandson's website.

 "FERDINAND WESTHEIMER & SONS
 St. Joseph, MO.
 1879-1915



 SEARCH the Database | Q's & Comments | Site Map | Contact Us


 The Wilsons say that in 1868, Ferdinand Westheimer was partnered with Epstein in a grocery and tobacco & liquor store in St. Joseph.

 In 1871, the brothers Samuel and Ferdinand Westheimer set up their own partnership and became wholesale liquor dealers on 2nd St.

 In 1878, the brothers parted ways. Samuel continued operating the store on 2 nd St., eventually taking on his son. Their business continued successfully until prohibition.

 In the mid 1880's, Ferd took on his own sons as partners and in 1897, the company consisted of Ferdinand, E. F., M. F., and L. F. Westheimer.

 By the time Ferd died, he was owner of the Old Times Distillery in Louisville, KY. and the company had branch office in Cincinnati, OH that lists until Prohibition.

 The company used the brand names:
 "Boston League", "C. C. Bond", "Clover Brook", "Manhattan Reserve", "McAllister", "Number One", "Old Hutch", "Planet", "Pullman Pure Rye", "Red Top Rye", "Top", and "White House Club."

 Business name timeline:
 Ferdinand Westheimer & Co. (1879-1880), Ferdinand Westheimer (1881-1885), Ferdinand Westheimer & Sons (1887-1915)

 Address timeline:
 205-207 S 3 rd" From pre-peo.com, with a load of go-with photos.












 Ferdinand Westheimer's home in St. Joe, MO 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 has been transformed into Whiskey Mansion Bed & Breakfast; "About the Home
 The home was built by Ferdinand Westheimer and was designed by the famed architectural firm of Eckel and Mann. Ferdinand Westheimer was the founder of Westheimer & Sons Distillers, with locations in Saint Joseph, MO, Cincinnati, OH, and Louisville, KY. Most noted among his spirits was Red Top Rye.

 At the young age of 34, Ferdinand arrived in Saint Joseph in early 1859 on the just complete Hannibal & St. Joseph Railway. An immigrant from Rimbach, Odenwald, Germany, he had early success in the mercantile business. By 1870, he had dissolved his mercantile business and branched out into wholesale liquor distribution. By the turn of the century he was among Saint Josephâ€™s long list of millionaires. He and his wife, Sarah, raised eight sons."

 Here's a bit more 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 "I read a note that you wrote that Red Top Rye bottle are very common and don't bring much $. Do you know where I might be able to get some? Thank you, Ann W
Red top Trademark shown (alongside):

 I have been wrong before (many times in fact)  I may have been thinking of Red Beer (of Hauck Brewery in Cin, OH).  After checking again, I found a listing in a very old Hugh Cleveland's Bottle Pricing Guide for the following: Red Top Whiskey, aqua flask 6 1/2', $5-7; aqua corker, 11 1/2", $6-7; and Red Top Rye, Ferdinand Westheimer and Sons, red amber, 12" (bottle was pictured) listed for $7-8 (now that was then and this is now and the price might have gone way up...but I can't verify that either way.  The name "Red Top" was first used for whiskey in 1884.  In the 1940s the brand was owned by Gordon-O'Neill Company, Inc.  120 Sherman Avenue Jersey City. the last owner was Schenley Distillers, Inc. of in 1980.  New York  Digger." from Digger Odell. And, "Dear Digger, I have a Planet sour mash bottle that came from under an old house in Lusk, Wy. about 40 years ago. It was on a beam. It has two labels and is embossed. It has a glass stopper with cork around it on the inside. The big label in front says, "PLANET' 1875. HAND MADE. The trade mark has a half moon with a face, and 3 stars. SOUR MASH. Bottled by the distillers. FERDINAND WESTHEIMER & SONS. ST. JOSEPH, MO. The smaller label on the backside says, SEE THAT EVERY CORK IS BRANDED "PLANET." It hs a picture of a cork on the label with PLANET on the cork. It is also embossed on the back in a circle. "PLANET' SOUR MASH. 1875 with the half moon and 3 stars. FERD. WESTHEIMER & SONS. The bottle is 11 inches tall, 2 1/4 inches in diameter, and has a flat spot on it for laying down. The bottle and labels are still in excellent condition. Could you give me an idea of its value, and where I might sell it? Thank you very much, Robert L. Lebanon, Or" from Digger '06.

 There's an interesting listing "I have a silver plated item which looks like a combination of a whiskey barrel and a teapot, with the engraved name of the Ferdinand Westheimer & Sons Distillers Cincinnati Ohio on one side and BOSTON LEAGUE on the other. It is stamped number 1207 "Special Metal" Any information this piece is appreciated. - Missychif: 9/7/2008 4:28:02 PM" @ this place.

 There's more, but lesser, references out there...


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## crozet86 (Mar 14, 2010)

That is a ton of info surface and thanks for your effort.I didnt think it would be valuable but you never know. I like to have the history on bottles i find just to learn for and if i find another.


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## surfaceone (Mar 14, 2010)

> I like to have the history on bottles i find just to learn for and if i find another.


 
 Hey Eddie,

 I feel the same way. I like diggin up stuff, be it with shovel & scratcher, or via books or the internet. Hope I didn't offend with that crack about yer googler. I was tickled to find so much information on Ferdinand & Sons.

 A wave of the spade to ya...


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## LC (Mar 14, 2010)

Glad you posted this bottle surfaceone , I had never seen or heard of it till now , and I am 45 miles east of  the Cincy area . Never seen the Red Top embossed beers before either  from the Cincy area .  If it is from Cincy , it could be a beer . I wonder if the same family was in business putting this cone top out as well at a later date .


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## surfaceone (Mar 15, 2010)

Hey Louis,

 Cool Cone Top! Who is the brewer? From what I just learned about the Westheimers and the liquor biz, I believe the Cone was from a later/different source. Man that guy is in great shape. Thanks for adding it to the thread.


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## LC (Mar 15, 2010)

I do not know who the brewer was , it has nothing on the can referring to who the brewer is except for stating The Red Top Brewing Comapny, that is why I thought maybe the Westheimer family might have been the brewer . I had a chance to buy a Red Top beer sign a few years back with the Top on it . It was a sharp sign . I could not get myself to let go of 150 bucks to buy it , although I felt it was worth it .


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## Ann Nepsa (Jan 4, 2017)

I have a Red Top Rye Whiskey bottle. It is in the shape of a clear glass teapot. Has anyone seen one like this before. It belonged to my great grandfather.


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## sandchip (Jan 5, 2017)

Do you have any pictures that you could share with us?


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