# looking for help with identification and values



## VTR (Jun 14, 2012)

I have been browsing these forums learning and I hate to come here looking for yet more help but I searched the internet and could not find a lot of information so I figured I would ask the experts.  So I have done yet another day of collecting.  I found the following: 

 1.) clear wine bottle from Garrett American Wine- Garrett and Co. Inc-Pioneer American Wine Growlers

 2.) One gallon jug from Supreme Wine Co. Inc.

 3.)  A brown bottle with a metal cap that has Father John's Medicine written on the side of the bottle only.

 4.)  A small brown Lysol Bottle.

 5.) A small clear Chat. H. Fletcher Castoria Bottle.

 6.)  Small clear St. Josephs aspirin bottle.

 7.)  Small clear Bayer aspirin bottle.

 8.)  Small clear Jergens lotion bottle.

 9.)  Champlain Carbonated Beverages from Burlington, VT. where I am from so this is kind of interesting.

  I am looking for any information or if any are collectable and approximate values if they are collectable.  Thanks for your help.


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## RED Matthews (Jun 14, 2012)

Hello well looking at your picture of five bottles I see that four of them have a transfer bead under the finish.  This tells me they are ABM manufactured bottles.  You need to look for and collect "Mouth Blown Bottles", if you are looking for value.  I suggest a trip to the Library or Aldis Book Company and get a copy of this book above - by Grace Kendrick.
 RED Matthews


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## RED Matthews (Jun 14, 2012)

Hello again VTR.  i lookied at your picture again and five of the six bottles have a transfer bead so the mold seam will show on the sides of the finishes on each one of them.  The sixth bottle is a Soda Bottle and maybe rare enough to have some value.

 I decided to give you some reading material here,
 This is a collection of material information for newbee's in the hobby of Historic Bottle Collecting.   There are several approaches to bottle collecting, and every one has a different interest, that keeps them going after bottles that represent their interest.   My interest in putting this together; is to look at the development of bottle making and the methods that were used when the bottles were Hand-Made and Mouth-Blown.  This is intended to mainly cover the bottles that were made in the development of the American Glass Making Industry, the first industry in our country..   New diggers and collectors, need to realize how to identify bottles that were made by Hand and Mouth-Blown vs the bottles that were made on an AUTOMATIC  BOTTLE  MACHINE (ABM).  These glass items can be left for future collecting objectives; or recycled into the batch additive to today's glass production.  If there are two vertical seams on the finish of the bottle, leave it or recycle it.  The logic is the value isn't going to be worth taking it home; unless it is an unusual figural or fancy bottle.   There are a lot of interesting bottles made later, but ones interest has to become more specialized.  For example I have a bitg collection of large advertising bottles â€“ that were never even filled.  Whiskeys, beers, perfume, Coca Cola  and many products. Multiple finish Wolfe bottles, and bottles that were made with special mold designs.  So you canâ€™t leave justification for saving others also.
 The number one thing to learn is how to identify and know Mouth Blown Bottles.  One of the best things to learn is how to identify the pontil marks. 
             #1  When a bottle has a round ring of glass on the bottom, it is telling us that the ring was made by having an empontiling done with the previous blow pipe with neck glass left on the end of that blow pipe.  The diameters (inside and outside) will be about the same as the neck of the bottle under the finish.  So this is a Blow pipe or Open Tube Pontil, on the bottom of your bottle.  That previous blowpipe was laid on a rack by the glory hole to keep that glass tube end hot enough to stick to the next bottle. These are often referred to as: an open pontil but that is up to the collectorsâ€™ use of words. 
             #2  When the bottle has a contact mark on the bottom that illustrates that  what was used to empontil it, that mark will be a round form with different textures in the mark.  The mark is made by an iron punty rod and the diameter and style is different for: small to huge heavy glass bottles.  These heated punty rods were often soft coated with a sticking agent like: graphite, red lead or white lead .  The coated punty is then placed in; an open boxes with:  powdered iron, glass chips, glass dust, sand, to mention the main ones.  It is then stuck on the bottom of the new bottle to become a handle for the bottle-maker to apply glass to the neck of the empontilled bottle.   
 Some punties are even just coated with some hot glass from the melting crucible.  Identifying the exact method of empontiling is not as important as just realizing it has been on a punty rod.              
  #3  Now the last thing to look at is the finish on top of the bottle you are thinking of keeping.  If the finish was applied hot glass it will be just a ring of glass or it might have lines going around it and down on the neck of the bottle indicating that a pinch action tool had been inserted in the neck and the hot glass rotated to shape the hot glass, that was put on the neck.  In this looking at your bottle or jar â€“ if you see two vertical mold lines on that finish â€“ then it was made on an ABM (Automatic Bottle Machine) and left for a future collector.  The only exception is if the bottle is a unique figural or has some other indications of being a collectors item.  This will come after you have more experience. 
  This is no doubt enough to get you on a good road.    RED Matthews   <bottlemysteries@yahoo.com>


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## RED Matthews (Jun 14, 2012)

Well when I went back in my sending of this material - I realized I had already sent you this bottle detail letter before.  I have to assume you didn't read it.  RED Matthews


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## RED Matthews (Jun 14, 2012)

Hi I am still here.  
 I think you new guys to bottle collection could learn a lot by reading the information in a KOVELS BOTTLES book that is showing a lot of learning information by reading down through the descriptions they have in their book.  Reference and read with this link.

 http://www.amazon.com/Kovels-Bottles-Price-List-Edition/dp/1400047307/ref=sr_1_fkmr1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1339613192&sr=8-1-fkmr1&keywords=kovels+2012+bottle+book#reader_1400047307 

 Good stuff in there.  It all helps you learn.  RED Matthews


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 14, 2012)

Hey Red and VTR.
 I'm not a huge fan of Kovel price guides but they definitely have a place on my shelf. It's a great place to start anyway. 
 I tend to see more humor now with the vague descriptions that lead people to assume outlandish values but I've learned to research myself and come up with some conclusions of my own. I guess that comes with experience which I will get eventually, I think?[]

 From what I see there, only the Garret that may interest someone due to the heavy embossing and picture thing. It's still a very common bottle though and it doesn't look like anything there is older than the 1930-40 age.

 As for the Burlington ACL, it may be a good one but the paint is just to far gone unfortunately. What you got is pretty much for the recycle bin.... sorry.


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## RED Matthews (Jun 14, 2012)

Hi Eric and others.  I just feel that the price guide people just like to sell their books.  But I have to give some of them credit for organizing and showing some teaching benefits to collectors.  Eery one develops paths of interest in what they collect.  I certainly have and I can't afford to collect a lot of expensive glass pieces.  I took to the old bottles that showed me how they were made and because my work efforts in the glass industry I learned a heck of a lot about the methods and stage of making glass products.   After a forced retirement the interest in how glass items were made before 1900 proved to be a path of study and interest that let the glass I obtained - tell me how it was made.  
 I just feel sorry for people that go out and find a lot of bottles to get excited about without considering what they need to look for to collect items that can make their effort pay off in both pride and value.  It has been a rewarding appreciation to see the development of several great collections collected by so many people that are in this FORUM of neat collectors.  RED Matthews


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## dw3000 (Jun 14, 2012)

What you have there may not be that old or valuable.  You may not be able to sell them, but they're not necessarily garbage.  If you like them, keep them.  

 What I've learned from this forum is that national brand stuff like Lysol, Javex, Bayer etc are incredibly common and are not really collectable, nor are most things with screw tops (not old enough).  But I've got a few screw top meds and sodas that I think are pretty cool.  What I've also learned is that people collect all kinds of things, and what one person thinks is worthless someone else will pay big bucks for it, so you never know...  

 RED has provided some good advice on how to identify older bottles that would be more valuable and collectable.


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 15, 2012)

> But I have to give some of them credit for organizing and showing some teaching benefits to collectors.


I agree, they are 99.5% good at giving a general idea of a $1 throwaway, a $50 worth investigating or a $1000 absolutely look for more info. Kovels "Antiques and Collectibles" does a fair job at describing many items in their section beginnings but aren't great by any means. It can give you a good idea other whether or not to search out better books.
 I've kept my 60's and 70's books because they use to list 50Â¢ bottles and they may be still the same value in today dollars.[][][] That and I had them since I was a pre teen in some cases.[][]


> I just feel sorry for people that go out and find a lot of bottles to  get excited about without considering what they need to look for to  collect items that can make their effort pay off in both pride and  value.


I'm not sure if this applies Red but ten years ago or so I found a box (well many actually) of Liberty Blue plates, bowls etc. I never asked any questions. I researched and learned before I sold them. I knew I didn't want them but wanted to learn before I sold them. Maybe that's just me and it wasn't ALL to get the biggest money, I just wanted to know.


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