# RARE SODA BOTTLE BOOK ~ By J. L. JONES ~ COPYRIGHT 1972



## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Meet ...*

 J. L. Jones and his 1972 soda bottle book

 Soda and Mineral Water Bottles
 (2000 Varieties)
 By J. L. Jones 
 Copyright 1972
 Published by Palmetto Enterprises, Greer, South Carolina

 (The book is out of print and extremely difficult to find. There are currently no available copies from Internet book sellers that I am aware of. Even a picture of the book's cover seems to be non existent on the Internet).

 ~ * ~

 [ The Author ]

 John Lemuel Jones

 Birth:  October 13, 1907 
 Death:  January 13, 1980 
 Parents:  Lemuel Van Jones, Mary Almira Wood 
 Spouse:  Bessie Lowes Stepp

 J. L. Jones was a true pioneer of bottle collecting. He started the Greer Bottle Club in Greer, South Carolina in 1972. He was also an avid coin and stamp collector. He was born in 1907 and was 65 years old when he started the Greer Bottle Club. His only book I am aware of is the one being reviewed here. 

 J. L. Jones operated a coal distribution company for a number of years in Greer, S.C. and was considered a leading citizen in the community. He was 65 years old when he published his book in 1972 and died in 1980 at the age of 72.

 http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=14748936

 ~ *  ~  

 Brief history of J. L. Jones ...

 Legendary Citizens of Greer
 Copyright 2012 ~ By Ray Belcher and Joada P. Hiatt 

 http://xrl.us/bptrt5

 ~ * ~

 Picture of J.L. Jones from the 2012 Greer book ...

 http://xrl.us/bptrtn

 ~ * ~

 J. L. Jones ~ President of [Numismatic] Coin Collecting Organization ~ Greer, S.C. ~ 1960 ...

 http://www.brna.org/BRNAbylaws.pdf

 ~ * ~

 Spartanburg, S.C. Herald-Journal ~ June 11, 1975 ~ Greer Bottle Club third annual show ...

 http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=cG4sAAAAIBAJ&sjid=iIoFAAAAIBAJ&pg=4686,2119210&dq=greer+bottle+club&hl=en

 ~ * ~

 Postcard of Jones Coal Company ~ Greer, South Carolina ~ The Chevrolet pickup in the postcard appears to be from the late 1940s or early 1950s, but this doesn't necessarily date the postcard. My best guess on the year of the pickup is 1947 thru 1953. In 1946 the grills were different, and in 1954 they no longer had the divider on the front window. The earliest date I am aware of for the Jones Coal Company is 1938 and at that time was listed as L. V. Jones & Son, Inc. Lamuel Van Jones was John's father who was born in 1879 and died in 1956. J. L. Jones was 31 years old in 1938. The 1940 U.S. Census record list J. L. as being 32 years old at the time and employed as a Retail Coal Salesman. 

 (I did a brief search on the Dexter Press postcard number 46491 but I did not find anything specific regarding a date. I think it is safe to assume the postcard is 'circa' 1950). 

 http://digital.infodepot.org/cdm/compoundobject/collection/wlpc/id/1157/rec/19

 ~ * ~

 When the demand for residential coal diminished in the 1960s, J.L. Jones diversified into the transfer and storage business.

 1965 LIFE magazine ad listing Jones Transfer and Storage Co. ~ Greer, South Carolina ...

 http://xrl.us/bpuecw

 ~ * ~

 Jones Transfer & Storage Corporation is still in operation ... but not certain if by the same family related to J. L. Jones ...

 https://plus.google.com/111553916897981254138/about

 ~ * ~

 Greer, South Carolina according to Wikipedia ...

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greer,_South_Carolina

 ~ * ~

 [ The Book ]

 Reference from the BLM/SHA.org ~ Historic Glass Bottle Identification & Information Website ...

 Notice where it says "lots of ACL sodas" 

 http://www.sha.org/bottle/references.htm 

 "Jones, J. L. 1972. Soda and Mineral Water Bottles. Palmetto Enterprises, Greer, S.C. Contains photos (and some history and estimated dating) of â€œover 2000 varietiesâ€ of soda/mineral water bottles with an emphasis on late 19th to mid-20th century bottles, including lots of ACL sodas. An interesting book."

 ~ * ~ 

 Reference from the HutchBook website ~ By Ron Fowler ...

 http://www.hutchbook.com/Resources%20HutchBook.com%20Resources/Default.htm

 "Jones, J. L.  Over 2,000 Varieties Soda And Mineral Water Bottles.  Greer, South Carolina: Palmetto Enterprises, 1972."

  ~ * ~

 Antique-bottles.net forum thread about searching for a copy of the book ~ By psmason73 ~ July 18, 2010 ...

 https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-326704/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#326704

 ~ * ~

 Antique-bottles.net forum thread with a reference to the book ~ By Red Matthews ~ May 11, 2013 ...

 https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-606193/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#606193

 THE FEDERATION OF HISTORICAL BOTTLE CLUBS â€˜JOURNALâ€™  March 1973 Volume 1 Number 1 ~ Book Reviews ~ â€œSODA AND MINERAL WATER BOTTLESâ€  ~  By J. L. Jones

 ~ * ~

 Article that mentions the formation of the FOHBC ...

 http://www.americanbottle.com/the-current-state-of-the-bottle-hobby/

 "The [bottle collecting] hobby had already gained a head of steam on the Pacific Coast. The first recognized bottle club was actually started in Sacramento, California by John Tibbitts during the mid 1960â€™s. It was called The Antique Bottle Collectors Association, which later became the Federation of Historic Bottle Collectors or FOHBC."

 ~ * ~

 Soda bottles from the Spartanburg / Greer, S.C. area ...

 http://www.goldminers90.com/bottles/pages/crown_top_page.htm

 ~ * ~

 The J. L. Jones book is not the first ever published to contain pictures and values of soda bottles, but in my opinion it is definitely the best of the early soda bottle collecting books. In the pictures that follow you will notice that a great deal of emphasis is with Applied Color Label (ACL) soda bottles, which was a category of soda bottle collecting that apparently didn't generate all that much interest with collectors until the early 1970s. Prior to the early 1970s, the majority of interest seems to have been with embossed soda bottles, especially those produced prior to about 1900. There are numerous books which contain references and images of pre 1900 bottles, but the J. L. Jones book seems to have broken the mold in that it recognized the value and future popularity of post 1900 soda bottles, especially ACLs. This is just one of the reasons why I referred to J. L. Jones earlier as a true pioneer of bottle collecting. He seems to have had the foresight in knowing what would soon become the next phase for special interest soda bottle collecting and then took that vision to the next level by publishing his amazing book. 

 It would be of special interest to this discussion if there was someone still around who knew J. L. Jones personally and who might have been a member of the Greer Bottle Club. Should there be such a person now or in the future, and who happens to come across this thread, please share with us everything you recollect about J. L. Jones, the Greer Bottle Club, and especially anything you can recall about what was involved when he decided to publish his book. 

 As far as I know there were no second printings of the book, which might explain why there are so few copies currently available. I suspect that anyone who owns a copy of the book, and who are aware of it's rarity, probably want to hold onto it because finding another one might be next to impossible. And if you do find one, especially from an Internet book seller, expect to pay a premium for it. I highly recommend the book to all soda bottle collectors and hope your search for a copy is a successful one. The book is not necessarily a valuable resource for pricing, etc; but instead is a rare and valuable collectible unto itself to compliment your soda bottle collection. Old bottles and old books go together.

 As you will see in the pictures that follow, the book is separated into sections. Notice instead of using the term ACL that it refers to them as "Silk Screened Bottles." The words Applied Color Label / ACL are not used in the book.  

 (I did a brief search for Palmetto Enterprises of Greer, South Carolina, but I did not find anything past or present. Consequently, I do not know if they were an actual book publishing company or just some type of small town printing business/store).   

 ~ * ~

 [Side note #1]

 Regarding other soda bottle books earlier than the J. L. Jones book, there is one in particular I think worthy of mention here with a copyright date of 1968 which is titled ...

 Dictionary of Soda & Mineral Water Bottles
 Co-authored by John C. Fountain & Donald Colcleaser
 Published by "Ole Empty Bottle House Publishing Company"
 Amador City, California
 Softbound / 3-Ring ~ 97 Pages

 I have examined this book and discovered of the approximately 400 soda bottles pictured it contains approximately ... 

 130 pictures of 'embossed only' crown soda bottles. (About ten of which are Deco style sodas).
 30 pictures of straight-sided 'paper label' crown soda bottles.
 240 pictures of soda bottles which have various other types of closures including Hutchinson, Blob, and  Marble (Codd type).
 But zero pictures of any ACLs.

 In fact, I can't find the words Applied Color Label / ACL / Painted Label used anywhere in the book. The only thing even remotely related to acls I can find is on Page 4 where it says ...

 "Graphite Pontil marked sodas are rare, wooden molds are semi-rare, Machine made, crown tops are generally more common, but still classified as collectible. Generally the cruder the glass, the choicer the bottle. Note many of the 3 piece mold bottles (crown top) were made in semi-automatic bottle machines, which are cruder in design and are more desireable than later machine varieties." (With the loosely related reference to acls being the words "later machine varieties.")

 In other words ...

 I get the impression from the 1968 "Dictionary" that acls and the majority of other varieties of crown closure soda bottles were not that popular with collectors in 1968 and that the emphasis was with blob top and Hutchinson soda bottles and not embossed crowns or acls. If acl soda bottles were being actively collected in 1968 I think the Dictionary would have included at least a few them. Thus, this makes the J. L. Jones book all the more interesting because of it's inclusion of numerous crowns and acls. Because the J. L. Jones book contains a broader variety of soda bottles I consider it the more complete book in comparison to various other early soda bottle books I've seen. The J. L. Jones book might very well be the earliest specifically devoted to a broader audience of soda bottle collectors, especially acl collectors.

 If I were to guesstimate as to when acls became classified as a popular niche of soda bottle collecting nationwide, I would place an approximate date for this as circa 1970.

 (Unless you are a Hutchinson and/or blob-top collector, I do not recommend the Dictionary).

 ~ * ~ 

 [Side note #2]

 Another entry on Page 4 of the 1968 "Dictionary" is an article subtitled 'Life And Death of a Soda Factory' which talks about the early days of soda bottling in the Napa Valley area of California which started around 1830. (Napa Valley is north of San Francisco). The article states (in part) ...

 "Three men bore claim to this hillside area, and they all had settled on this valuable property; however, since Amos Buckman had made his claim on August 19, 1855 and his claim pre-dated all the others, he was granted temporary ownership."

 The interesting thing about this is for me is that Amos Buckman eventually relocated to southern California where he purchased 160 acres in San Diego's east county and started a Lithia Water bottling plant in 1881. But even more interesting is the fact that the Buckman bottling plant is located only five short miles from where I grew up and currently live. Over the years I have dug around the old Buckman homestead and bottling plant more times than I can count and have found at least a dozen bottles, every one of which is either chipped or broken because those were the one's disposed of by the wheelbarrow load. In fact, I was out there just a few weeks ago but unfortunately had to call it quits shortly after arriving because I encountered not only one, but two diamondback rattlesnakes. Needless to say, I won't be going back again until the snakes go into hibernation which typically occurs around Thanksgiving and last until about Easter.    

  ~ * ~

 Last but not least ...

 Please enjoy the pictures from the J. L. Jones book that follow. If anyone is interested in knowing what their favorite soda bottle was valued at in 1972, and it is included in the J. L. Jones book, please ask and I will be more than happy to share that information with you.

 By the way, I stand corrected about a picture of the cover of the J. L. Jones book being nonexistent on the Internet, because here it is ...

 (And you're seeing it here on Antique-Bottles.Net ... where collectors, diggers and traders meet).

 I hope everyone finds this thread to be interesting, helpful, and an in-depth review of a man and his book.   

 Sincerely,

 SODAPOPBOB

 ~ * ~

 Copyright Entry August 11, 1972

 http://xrl.us/bpuwci

 [ Book Cover ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Introduction ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Contents ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Sample ~ Page 20 Text ... Embossed Bottles*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Sample ~ Page 21 ~ Pictures Related to Text on Page 20 ~ Embossed Bottles ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Sample ~ Page 132 Text ~ Silk Screened Bottles ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Sample ~ Page 133 ~ Pictures for Silk Screened Bottles on Page 132 ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Postcard ~ Front ~ Jones Coal Company ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*Postcard ~ Back ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 23, 2013)

*1940 U.S. Census listing John Lemuel Jones as a Retail Coal Salesman ...*


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## OsiaBoyce (Sep 23, 2013)

Last week I noticed where one was for sale on Amazon for around $80.00.............. did not last long.


 I'll get the next one.


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## epackage (Sep 23, 2013)

Looks like a great book Bob, have a good time dissecting it....[]


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## FitSandTic (Sep 24, 2013)

I know I have at least one copy of that book, which is my fathers copy. To be honest with you I had no idea they were so sought after.


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## judu (Sep 24, 2013)

fantastic book that is pretty much a must have for us south carolina collectors until the new book comes out at the next columbia show......took me a long time to find mine.......


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 24, 2013)

The most valuable Coca Cola bottle in the J. L. Jones book is one found on pages 86 and 87 and described as follows ...

 2014. Augusta, Ga. Coca Cola, HUTCHINSON TOP.
 7 3/4 in. 8 oz., Name & City bottom front only.

 25.00-30.00


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 24, 2013)

However, I think most of you will agree that the bottle pictured it is not what I would describe as a Hutchinson bottle, but rather one with a Blob-type closure. This is a little confusing for a number of reasons ...

 1.  Based on other Hutchinson bottles pictured in the book and references referring to them, J. L. Jones obviously knew the difference between a Hutch, a Blob, and a Crown. And yet he describes this one as a Hutchinson.

 2.  To be honest with you, I wasn't aware that Coca Cola ever produced a Blob-top bottle. I have three hardbound copies of Allan Petretti's Coca Cola books and there isn't a single Blop-top Coca Cola bottle pictured in any one of the books.

 Maybe the description was just a typo of J. L. Jones, which might very well be the case. But even with this said, how do we explain the existence of a Blob Coca Cola bottle? If anyone has an example of this bottle and a story to go along with it, please share it with us.

 By the way, I wonder what one of those bottles is worth today?

 Bob


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## FitSandTic (Sep 24, 2013)

I have seen doctored coca cola straight side bottles before. It is not uncommon for people to glue different lips on bottles. I have seen Norfolk VA bottles with whiskey style lips on them. I am not saying this is one of them but it happens all the time.


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## epackage (Sep 24, 2013)

I have a machine made blob dating to 1912, so this is a possibility, but I have no clue if it's the real deal. I can't think of ever seeing one in my time here on ABN or in my searches on eBay....


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## FitSandTic (Sep 24, 2013)

I have never seen a blob top Coca Cola before. Has anyone else?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 24, 2013)

I'm still searching for a blob-top Coca Cola bottle but not having any luck. Here's a link that might help with dates and other sorted information about blob-tops.

 Blob Closure Link ...

 http://www.sha.org/bottle/soda.htm#Blob 

 ~ * ~

 In the meantime, check out this postcard I got in the mail today. The attached picture is of the back of the card but it is the same type of postcard of the J. L. Jones Cola Company that I posted earlier. However, this one is special because it was sent by J. L. Jones himself and even has his handwritten initials on it. (Sort of like an autograph). I'm still researching the name who the card was sent to and see if a Dr. F. T. Hallem/Hallam/Hallom might have been a bottle collector or possibly a stamp collector. And for all I know he might have been a coal customer or any one of a million other acquaintances. But irregardless of who it was sent to, I think it's cool because of the initials. As for the date, postcards required 3-cent postage between 1958 and 1963. However, the stamps themselves were produced in 1954. So it looks like one of a couple of things ...

 1. He used too much postage on a 1954 mailing.
 2. He used old stamps (1954) on a later mailing (1958-1963).

 ~ * ~   

 U. S. Postage Rates History ~ 3-Cent postcard postage was required between 1958 and 1963 

 http://www.akdart.com/postrate.html

 ~ * ~

 Thomas Jefferson 2-Cent Stamp ~ Page 36 = Issued in 1954

 http://www.usstampgallery.com/search.php?st=&ss=&t=2&s=140&syear=&eyear

 ~ * ~

 George Washington 1-Cent Stamp ~ Page 35 = Issued in 1954

 http://www.usstampgallery.com/search.php?st=&ss=&t=2&s=136&syear=&eyear

 ~ * ~

 Cashiers, North Carolina according to Wikipedia ...

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cashiers,_North_Carolina

 ~ * ~

 Bob

 [ Back of postcard ~ Circa ???? ] [ Notice it was mailed from Cashiers, North Carolina ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 24, 2013)

P.S. 

 I can't say for certain at the moment, but there is something about the Coca Cola *bottle's shoulder* that sure looks a lot like a blob-top to me and not a straight-sided bottle.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 25, 2013)

I realize the J. L. Jones postcard I received may not be of particular interest to every soda bottle collector, but for those who are curious about it I did some research on the addressee and discovered it was sent to  ...

 Dr. Franklin Tulley Hallam

 Born August 15, 1901
 Died May 1982

 http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/w/i/n/Holly-G-Winder/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0014.html

 ~ * ~

 Dr. Hallam was also a stamp collector which explains his connection to J. L. Jones. I am assuming the card was sent to Dr. Hallam because of the 1954  "pre-cancelled" stamps. 

 I have tried to make sense of "Pre Cancellation" stamp collecting but I still don't fully understand it. All I can gather is that it involves two ink-mark lines which are located above and below the town name on the stamps and that it is of particular interest to a certain niche of stamp collectors. Speaking of which, I bet there are a few stamp collectors out there who would like to have my J. L. Jones postcard. But I intend to hold onto it for a while unless some stamp collector offers me some big bucks for it. 

 Bob

 ~ * ~    

 Dr. Hallam joined the Bankers Life Company in 1953

 http://xrl.us/bpvsch

 ~ * ~

 Dr. Hallam moved to Florida in 1968 ~ Possibly to retire ~ (Scroll to page 7) 

 http://mlstamps.com/sites/stamps/PSSforum/1968/July%201968.pdf

 ~ * ~

 This PDF file from 1969 shows an example of the Thomas Jefferson 2-cent stamp on Page 5 which is ink-marked like the one on my postcard.

 http://mlstamps.com/sites/stamps/PSSforum/1969/May%201969.pdf

 ~ * ~

 Here's an article regarding an interview with Dr. Hallam ~ I'm not sure when the interview was conducted but it obviously had to be prior to Dr. Hallam's death in 1982. I get the impression that Dr. Hallam was a big-time stamp collector and was well known back in the day.

 (I sent this organization an email to see what they could tell me about my postcard, especially if they knew when it was mailed. I also inquired about Dr. Hallam and a few other questions I had regarding pre-cancellation stamp collecting). 

 http://www.precancels.com/hand-electros-25-years-of-precancel-history/

 ~ * ~

 The snippet pictured below is from a 1955 Des Moines, Iowa Directory


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 25, 2013)

Here's the postcard again so you won't have to click back/scroll to find it ...


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## FitSandTic (Sep 25, 2013)

This was the first bottle book I was given as a younger collector.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 25, 2013)

Regarding the blob-top Coca Cola bottle ...

 I have discontinued my search because after several hours of looking I simply cannot find another example like it, nor even a reference to one. So I guess I will have to leave it up to other members, especially the advanced Coca Cola experts among us, to determine if its the real deal or not. However, I will say this much; I want to believe that J.L. Jones knew his bottles and that he would have commented on it if he knew it was not legit and was some kind of fake. But not only did he not say that, but he even gave it a value which he stated in his introduction was based on "actual sales and competent authorities in this field." I'm thinking that someone, somewhere apparently knew something about the bottle, including its 1972 value, in order to include it in the book. I'm also thinking that a glued on or melted on lip would have stood out like a sore thumb. But J. L. didn't describe it as rare or even one of a kind, which you would think he would have done if that had been the case. I honestly get the impression that other examples existed but were hard to find and explains the so called high value he gave it of $25.00 to $30.00.

 Bob


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## FitSandTic (Sep 25, 2013)

You should see some of the doctored bottles out there now. They do not stick out. I am not questioning the authors knowledge at all but I went to an auction where old bottles were pulled out of a barn the day of the sale. These bottles were dusty, full of bugs, and in the boxes that they were carried in the building the day the owner brought them home. In one of those boxes was a amber Norfolk Coca Cola that had a sloping collared lip with ring. The guy I was with was going nuts for it all he could talk about was how rare it was. I told him that there was never a Coca Cola that was produced with that type lip. He did not listen to me and bought the box for $90, so other people believed it was real as well. When he got home he soaked the bottle in his sink to get the dust and dirt off of it. After soaking in the sink for a little while the lip fell of the bottle. I looked at the bottle close at the sale, maybe not close enough but I did not see where it had been attached. I really do not care much about whether not the bottle really exists but the reason I mentioned it is from past experiences. I am not questioning the authors knowledge but back then looking for things like doctored bottles was not high on priorities. It may exist and that would be great, I just said something because I had an experience where a new style Coca Cola was found and it really wasn't. Hope you find you Coca Cola blob in the future and if you do please share it with me.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

Travis / atticfinds ~

 I'm convinced - I no longer suspect that Coca Cola ever produced a blob-top bottle. There is nothing I can find whatsoever to support they ever existed. The one listed in the J.L. Jones book is most likely a fake. 

 Thanks for the due diligence - much appreciated.

 Bob

 ~ * ~

 Antique Blob-Top Soda Bottle Hall of Fame ...

  http://www.antiquebottles.com/soda/fame.html


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

As a comparison to the so called Augusta, Georgia blob-top Coca Cola bottle, here are two more Augusta, Georgia bottles from the same page.

 Please make note of the heights and ounces ... 

 [ Text ~ Page 86 ~ Image #s 2016 & 2017 ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

Here's the text again for the blob-top.

 [ Page 86 ~ Image # 2014]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

And here are the two other Augusta, Georgia bottles ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

Now compare the two other bottles to the blob-top. Except for the closures and measurements, bottle number 2017 looks almost identical to the blob-top. In fact, the 8 ounce blob bottle #2014 actually looks smaller than the 6 1/2 ounce crown bottle #2017. Of course this could simply be the result of a distance factor. But whatever the explanation might be, it appears the Augusta, Georgia bottling plant produced a variety of different bottles - and that somewhere along the line someone apparently faked one of them.


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## epackage (Sep 26, 2013)

Easier to compare them when they are all together Bob... []

*Question is when was Coca Cola being bottled in the Augusta plant?* *Is it possible the timeline fits for them to have used blob tops? Maybe this was a "Test Piece"? *


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

Jim / epackage ~

 Thanks for the side-by-side images. I need to learn how to do that stuff but its hard teaching an old dog new tricks ... []

 As for your questions ... 

 The only thing I can tell you is, I believe the majority of blob-top bottles predate Hutchinson's. I'm pretty sure Coca Cola's first bottle was a Hutch.

 I don't have the answer at my fingertips, but I would think it wouldn't be too difficult for someone to determine the bottling history for Augusta, Georgia.   

 Thanks again

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

I took a quick look around and found this ...

*1902*

 http://cocacolaunited.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/CLICK-HERE-FOR-HISTORY-OF-AUGUSTA-COCA-COLA.3.pdf


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## epackage (Sep 26, 2013)

1902 is a definite possibility for the blob, but without someone showing us one it's gonna be tough to authenticate...


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## morbious_fod (Sep 26, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> Easier to compare them when they are all together Bob... []
> 
> *Question is when was Coca Cola being bottled in the Augusta plant?* *Is it possible the timeline fits for them to have used blob tops? Maybe this was a "Test Piece"? *


 
 Am I the only one who thinks he seeing an amber bottle with a clear blob? Maybe the blob is just in that bad a shape, but the neck glass looks much darker than the obviously clear blob. Maybe the glassmakers were just fooling around and applied a clear blob top to an amber bottle.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 26, 2013)

Morb ~

 According to the book ...

 "*All are Crown Caps, Machine Made and Clear Glass Unless Stated*"

 I believe what looks like amber glass is either soda or food coloring in the bottles to highlight the embossing. None of the three bottles are listed as amber. I have discovered by 'clear' that he actually meant 'aqua.'

 Bob


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## judu (Sep 26, 2013)

hey morb , i have this book and im pretty sure almost all the bottles were filled with a dark liquid and then the embossing was highlighted with white lettering.not sure though....pictures are all in black and white and are very small......looks to me like a normal crown top bottle with some odd blob top thing placed on it........


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 26, 2013)

> Am I the only one who thinks he seeing an amber bottle with a clear blob?


No, I see that too but I also see a face on the shoulder of the middle one. [][][]
 I really don't think much can be learned from those pictures at all. [8|]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 27, 2013)

Currently on eBay ~ Augusta, Georgia ~ Base Script ~ Coca Cola Bottle ~ Buy It Now ~ $64.95

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUGUSTA-GA-STRAIGHT-SIDED-BASE-SCRIPT-COCA-COLA-BOTTLE-/400571525162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d43ec682a


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## morbious_fod (Sep 29, 2013)

Dark liquid does explain the oddities I was seeing in the other ones as well. It is quite hard to tell from the photos. My money is still on someone gluing that blob onto the top of a regular crown top after cutting off the original top though. Especially if they were machine made, they wouldn't have been able to attach a blob top to it by hand.


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## morbious_fod (Sep 29, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Currently on eBay ~ Augusta, Georgia ~ Base Script ~ Coca Cola Bottle ~ Buy It Now ~ $64.95
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUGUSTA-GA-STRAIGHT-SIDED-BASE-SCRIPT-COCA-COLA-BOTTLE-/400571525162?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d43ec682a


 
 Maybe I'm crazy, but the top looks tooled to me, but I could be wrong.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 30, 2013)

The Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottle isn't the only odd looking blob bottle in the J.L. Jones book. Check out bottles numbered ...

 226.
 227.
 228.

 Notice bottle number 226 is an obvious blob. And yet right next to it are two more blob bottles that have that weird 'ghostly' look. And these aren't the only ghostly blobs in the book, there are quite a few more of them. Are we to believe every one of them is a fake?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 30, 2013)

Here's the text for bottles 226 - 227 - 228


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 30, 2013)

I looked through the entire book and of the blob-top bottles pictured I found ...

 18 ghostly blobs.

 13 obvious blobs.

 Of the 13 obvious blobs, many were listed as either cobalt blue or emerald green, which might explain why they photographed with more detail.

 Of the 18 ghostly blobs, all were described as either aqua, clear, or ice blue, which might explain why the tops photographed with more light passing through the closures/lips.

 As for the placement of the script on various straight-sided Coca Cola bottles, especially regarding the one in question which is a base script, the following should serve as a general guide for dating them ...

 1.  Center slug plate script - about 1900-1905. 
 2.  Base rectangular slug plate script - about 1900-1905. 
 3.  Mid body script - about 1900-1910. 
 4.  Base script - about 1902-1915. 
 5.  Center diamond script - about 1907-1912. Only from Cumberland MD (amber and clear) and Toledo OH (amber).  
 6.  Vertical script - about 1905-1910. Only from Milwaukee WI. 
 7.  Vertical arrow script - about 1912-1916. All amber, primarily TN and KY. 
 8.  Circular arrow script - about 1912-1914. All from Jackson TN (amber and aqua). 
 9.  Shoulder script - about 1910-1919


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 30, 2013)

I sent Bill Porter the following copy/pasted email ...

 Hi Bill:

 In J.L. Jones 1972 soda bottle book there is a picture and text for a ...

 Augusta, Georgia Blob-Top Coca Cola bottle.

 I have never heard of a blob-top Coca Cola bottle and was wondering what your thoughts were about it? Is it the real deal or some kind of fake?

 I am attaching some pictures from the book, including the cover. If you have this book, the bottle in question is listed on page 86.

 Even though it appears to be a blob, the author describes it as a Hutchinson, which it obviously isn't. The Augusta, Georgia bottling plant was started in 1902.

 Thanks

 Bob


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## morbious_fod (Sep 30, 2013)

I think that if there was an authentic blob top Coca-Cola out there we would have heard about it by now, most likely after "the prince" purchased it.This bottle is rare to the point of being one of a kind, but shares the exact same bottle/script town name design as a crown top that was "machine made". Add to that the fact that it has the obvious signs of having been dug, if you will notice the swirls on the shoulder, it is quite common for someone to dig a bottle with a broken top and attach a different top to it for a conversation piece. I've seen amber cokes with cork whiskey tops on them in real life. These were made just for fun, unlike some people who will replace the crown or other top on a bottle in order to deceive.

 I put this one squarely in the category of conversation piece that the author wasn't sure about, or was completely taken by, and didn't want to leave out of the book just in case it was real. 

 Wait, I just read your email to Bill Porter, and obviously I missed something. The author identified this bottle as a Hutchinson? It looks absolutely nothing like a Hutchinson as you rightly pointed out. Hmmmmmm.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 30, 2013)

I heard from Bill Porter who had this to say ...

 ~ * ~

 Bob, 

 Check #2017 - same bottle with crown top. This cannot happen. A blob or Hutch cannot share a mold with a crown top. No blob top Cokes have ever been reported, and no Hutch from Augusta. It would be very easy to attach a blob top to a topless crown top. This is an old book written at a time when people were still finding there way in the dark. This bottle has never surfaced to my knowledge. I'm sure it would have if it were real. 

 Bill

 ~ * ~

 Bill obviously has the J. L. Jones book because he referred to bottle #2017 which I did not send him a picture of nor mention in my email. I only sent him a picture of the blob #2014. I especially like what he said about Blob's and Hutch's not sharing the same molds as Crown's. 

 Here are bottles 2014 - 2016 - 2017 again that Jim/package grouped together ...


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## epackage (Sep 30, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> I heard from Bill Porter who had this to say ...
> 
> *A blob or Hutch cannot share a mold with a crown top.*


 

 I have the utmost respect for Mr. Porter and his contributions to this hobby, they are unrivaled, but he will have to explain this to me.... This has nothing to do with the Coke just to clarify...[]


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## morbious_fod (Oct 1, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> I heard from Bill Porter who had this to say ...
> 
> This is an old book written at a time when people were still finding there way in the dark. This bottle has never surfaced to my knowledge. I'm sure it would have if it were real.


 
 He expressed a point I was thinking all along, but didn't want to just come out and say. This book came from a time when the knowledge base was still quite full of speculation. As you said Soda, this guy was a pioneer, but being a pioneer means you end up finding out in future that sometimes what you thought was true wasn't as you gain more facts. We have more access to information that he didn't have back then, partly due to his own research, and the research of those who followed him.

 As to the second part of that, if Bill Porter hasn't seen one of those, then most likely it is a one off, thus likely a fake.


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## celerycola (Oct 1, 2013)

If you had met J. L. Jones as I did at the '73 Greer SC Bottle Show you would understand his sense of humour.


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## sandchip (Oct 2, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I'm not saying yea or nay here, but those two bottles were blown in two different molds.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

Even though I am 99% convinced the Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola blob-top bottle is not genuine, there is still that remaining 1% of uncertainty that keeps tugging at my brain. As Bill Porter and others have said, if it was genuine you'd think one would have surfaced by now. But just because there is no known example today, does this automatically mean that a particular grocer in the Augusta, Georgia area didn't request a shipment of them be made for a particular niche of his clientele? How else can we explain Jim/epackage's two bottles, both of which were apparently made in 1911?  (I say "apparently" because I'm not certain if 1911 is when the bottles were made or if 1911 is the date when the company was established). If Jim's two bottles were 'made' in 1911, then why would a bottler do that? Crown closures have been around since the mid 1890s, so why produce a blob-top in 1911?  

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

P.S. 

 Speaking of molds ...

 Not all bottle molds contained the lip/closure/finish portion!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

Example two ... (I'm currently searching for a typical, non Coca Cola blob-top mold)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

Jim / epackage

 I forgot to ask ...

 Are your 1911 bottles BIM, Machine Made, or one of each?


 ~ * ~

 The image below is the best I could find related to a blob-top type of mold. Notice it does not contain the lip/closure/finish, which would have been 'applied' later.

 http://www.sha.org/bottle/soda.htm

 [ Post Mold ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

Speaking of 'Post Molds' and 'Blob-top' soda bottles ...

 From:   http://www.sha.org/bottle/soda.htm

 Where it says ...

 "The brilliant blue-green mineral water bottle pictured above left is a very early California Gold Rush era soda/mineral water bottle embossed (in a plate) - LYNDE & PUTNAM / MINERAL WATERS / SAN FRANCISCO / CAL. A.  It has an *applied blob finish*, faint iron pontil scar on the base, and was blown in a *post-bottom mold* with no air venting in evidence."

 ~ * ~

 I realize this particular bottle predates the one's under discussion - I'm posting it because of the type of mold it was made in and not because of the bottle itself. The primary emphasis being that a lot of molds did not include the lip portion, which might explain what took place with Jim/epackage's 1911 bottles. In other words - same mold but with different 'applied' closures. 

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

P.S. ~ P.S.

 If it turns out that Jim/epackage's 1911 bottles were machine made, then I guess I'll have to go back to the drawing board because I never heard of a bottle machine that made blob-top soda bottles. I'm betting they were (BIM) 'blown-in-a-mold.' 

 Bob


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## morbious_fod (Oct 2, 2013)

The bottle and the top have been in different molds since the beginning of molded bottles. Early on and tools were used to create the crown, blob, or whatever top; however, when Owen's Machine was created a separate mold was created just to create the closure, this is why many of these early machine made bottles have seams that seem misaligned on the closure as compared to the rest of the body. Eventually they were set up to be more uniform, but still two molds were employed. The molds you are showing are only the body, and bottom molds. In other words you are missing a piece.

 As for the two bottles made in 1911, I'm betting the company in question also bottled beer, many bottled both especially up north, which during that time was traditionally bottled in a blob top bottle. This wouldn't have happened in a script Coca-Cola bottle which was to be strictly used to bottle Coca-Cola.


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## morbious_fod (Oct 2, 2013)

They were indeed bottling beer, and ended up having to sell a new machine in 1915. Given the trend going on at the time, this was most likely due to New Jersey joining the other states in prohibition before the actual constitutional amendment came into being. West Virginia did it in 1914, and Virginia did it in 1916, not sure when Jersey did it, but I would put money on 1915.


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## morbious_fod (Oct 2, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  celerycola
> 
> If you had met J. L. Jones as I did at the '73 Greer SC Bottle Show you would understand his sense of humour.


 
 So you are implying that he included this one just to blow people's minds? I worked. GGGG


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## T D (Oct 2, 2013)

There is the presumption by most of us in Georgia (I am one hour away from Augusta and have dug several different versions of the straight sided Augusta Coke, and SEVERAL of them) that there are two legitimate Georgia Hutch Cokes- Atlanta and Brunswick.

 The first Coke bottled in Georgia was in Valdosta in 1897.

 As far as I know, there are no amber Augusta Cokes.

 Most of the Cokes dug in these parts, are in waster dumps where 99.999 percent of them (my estimation) had damaged lips/tops.  I have talked to diggers and collectors of Georgia bottles that have confirmed that people were replacing tops in the late sixties and early seventies.

 Yes, you can put a blob top on a straight sided Coke with relative ease.  And yes, it can be done very convincingly.

 I have never met Mr. Jones or talked to anyone that has, nor do I know anything about the book (I will be on the lookout for one...), so I cannot comment on his level of knowledge or intent of the picture of the "blob top Coke, called a Hutchison".

 I have never seen or heard anyone mention anything about a blob top Coke.

 For these above reasons, I conclude that there was never a blob top Coke made, and especially not from Augusta.  It makes no sense to me and until one appears, my opinion will remain the same.  Of course, I'm just like the next guy, alway digging and searching to find the first one!


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## celerycola (Oct 2, 2013)

Agree with T. D. With one exception: the first Coca-Cola bottled in Georgia was in Atlanta in 1887. I have one of the bottles and it is not a blob top.


> ORIGINAL:  T D
> 
> There is the presumption by most of us in Georgia (I am one hour away from Augusta and have dug several different versions of the straight sided Augusta Coke, and SEVERAL of them) that there are two legitimate Georgia Hutch Cokes- Atlanta and Brunswick.
> 
> ...


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## epackage (Oct 2, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  celerycola
> 
> Agree with T. D. With one exception: the first Coca-Cola bottled in Georgia was in Atlanta in 1887. I have one of the bottles and it is not a blob top.


 Interesting Dennis, I was under the impression that crowntops didn't come into play until the 1890's...

 I figure if anyone I know would have seen a blob top Coke it would've been you, so I have serious doubts one exists.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

Food for thought / Question(s) ...

 1.  Food for thought:

 One thing more that anything else that keeps gnawing at my brain is why the so called Hutchinson/Blob-top bottle is listed as an 8 ounce but the others are listed as 6 1/2 ounce?

 2.  Question:

 Does anyone know for certain if the Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottles around today are 6 1/2 ounce, 8 ounce, or both?

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 2, 2013)

Here's one of the reasons I asked about 8 ounce bottles ...

 From:   http://www.sha.org/bottle/soda.htm  under the subheading ...

 "Blob-top" Soda/Mineral Water style

 Where it says ...

 "The blob-top sodas range narrowly in size from 8 to 14 ozs., with the smaller end of that range (half-pint) predominating (McKearin & Wilson 1978; empirical observations)."


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## T D (Oct 2, 2013)

Dennis am I correct that the 1887 Atlanta is a hutch?  The '97 Valdosta was obviously a crown top.  I stand corrected.


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## celerycola (Oct 2, 2013)

The earliest Documented Coke bottles are:
 1887 Atlanta Hutch
 1894 Vicksburg Hutch
 1897 Valdosta Hutch
 1899 Chattanoga Hutch *
 1900 Atlanta Hutch *

 1901 Macon, Rome, Birmingham, Louisville, Buffalo, and others 1901 and later crown.

 * only the Atlanta and Chattanooga Hutches were embossed Coca-Cola and used for Coca-Cola. Later Hutches embossed Coca-Cola were intended for soda water due to the drink reacting with the rubber washer and going bad as noted by Barbour.



> ORIGINAL:  T D
> 
> Dennis am I correct that the 1887 Atlanta is a hutch?  The '97 Valdosta was obviously a crown top.  I stand corrected.


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## T D (Oct 2, 2013)

Thanks again, Dennis.  I always thought the Valdosta was an early crown top that went back to '97.  I'm assuming I was confusing Valdosta with Brunswick.  I should stick to the crown tops...


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## glass man (Oct 2, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  celerycola
> 
> The earliest Documented Coke bottles are:
> 1887 Atlanta Hutch
> ...


 

 There is a ROME HUTCH? I live 23 miles from there and know diggers that have dug there and here since the 1960's and have never heard of one....JAMIE


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## celerycola (Oct 3, 2013)

Sorry if I was not clear. All of the Coke bottles 1901 and later were crown top. The later Hutches embossed Coca-Cola (Birmingham, Brunswick, Jasper, Bessemer, Anniston, Gadsden, Talladega) were intended for soda water,  not Coca-Cola.

 Rome did have a Celery-Cola Hutch.



> ORIGINAL:  glass man
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Despite how it might seem on the surface, the following is actually that 1% of uncertainty in me crying out for an explanation.

 ~ * ~

 We haven't heard from Jim/epackage since he asked about his two 1911 David Boyle bottles, which I would like to expound on by asking ...

 Why would a bottler like David Boyle produce not only a Blob-top and a Crown in 1911 but also a Hutchinson? That makes three distinctly different bottles produced at the same time. Why?

 I recall reading somewhere that bottlers would on occasion receive request from one or more of their clients to have their order of beverages put in Hutchinson and/or Blob-top bottles instead of the Crown bottles that were available at the time. I'm not sure why a grocer would make such a request other than he might have had a handful of old time customers who preferred Hutch's and Blob's over Crown's. 

 Is it even remotely possible this was the situation with the Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottler back in, say, 1902ish?  Remember, bottlers are not necessarily retailers. Bottlers received their empty bottles from a glass manufacturer - filled them with various beverages - and then distributed the filled bottles to grocers and the like. I'm not sure how far the Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottler distributed his goods, but I suspect his territory was somewhat widespread.

 Imagine the following conversation between a grocer named Greg and a bottler named Bill ...

 Greg the grocer:  Hey, Bill. I'd like to place an order for 200 bottles of Coca Cola but was wondering if I could have them in the cork bottles instead of those other kinds with the metal caps?

 Bill the bottler:  Sure, Greg. No problem. The glass factory I get my bottles from still makes corker's so I'll get right on it. But may I ask why you want corker's instead of crown's?

 Greg the grocer:  The thing is, I prefer the metal caps myself but I have a lot of longtime customers who for some reason don't like the metal caps and want the corker's instead like they used to. 

 Bill the bottler:  Okay. I see. Sure, I'll place the order for 200 corker's and have them ready for you in about a month. How does that sound?

 Greg the grocer:  Sounds good to me. Thanks a lot.

 ~ * ~

 If there is even the slimmest possibility of something like this occurring, that would explain where a blob-top Coca Cola bottle came from, especially if the bottles were returned by the grocer and refilled by the bottler over-and-over again until the bottles got chipped, broken, and eventually disposed of. Except that at least one of the surviving bottles ended up in the collection of J. L. Jones. 

 ~ * ~

 How else do we explain three distinctly different bottles produced for the same bottler (David Boyle) in 1911? 

 ( Jim/epackage: I hope you don't mind my 'borrowing' a picture of your David Boyle Hutchinson bottle)

 Bob




> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

P.S. ~

 And maybe, just maybe Greg the grocer was a country store proprietor located 50 miles away from Augusta and disposed of his broken bottles in a ditch that no one has come across yet.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

The following is from a 1906 Illinois Glass Company catalog and is intended to show that both Crown and Blob bottles could still be ordered in 1906. There are other pages showing Hutch's available as well in 1906. (Not that anyone doubted it - I just thought I'd include it for the record).

  http://www.sha.org/bottle/igco_1906.htm


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

And here's a Coca Cola bottle from the same 1906 catalog. Notice the *base* script like the Augusta bottle in question ...


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## morbious_fod (Oct 3, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> We haven't heard from Jim/epackage since he asked about his two 1911 David Boyle bottles, which I would like to expound on by asking ...
> 
> Why would a bottler like David Boyle produce not only a Blob-top and a Crown in 1911 but also a Hutchinson? That makes three distinctly different bottles produced at the same time. Why?


 
 I think I can explain it. First off where did you get the idea that David Boyle only bottled in 1911? I found him bottling as late at 1915 myself, beer in fact. This assumption that these two bottles are from 1911, and thus every bottle made for the David Boyle Company must come from that year is where you are confusing yourself. I did a quick search on google and found a New Jersey bottle collecting forum which states that the company was bottling from the 1890's till the 1940's, and shows several photos of many of the different bottles that the company used. Of course this thread features epackage's bottles, as he posts there. Link below.

 http://njbottles.com/index.php?topic=152.0

 All three of these bottles weren't manufactured at the same time. In fact in my own area the Waynick Bottling Works bottled in a Hutchinson and a blob top beer bottle at the same time. I would be willing to bet that if he hadn't shut down by 1895 that eventually he would have switched from the Hutchinson to a crown top for his sodas, just as I'm betting David Boyle did.

 While there are instances where bottlers were using Hutchinsons into the teens, in my area the majority of them stopped using them after 1906 or so, and I would bet a good majority of the country did as well. The agreed upon end of the Hutchinson era is 1912 when the Hutchinson Company stopped offering them in their catalog, but as always there were exceptions.

 Viewing your idea that bottling companies were purchasing bottles based upon customer demands in a strictly business light, you do realize that in order to do this they would have to have separate bottling equipment for each closure right? It would have to be on extremely large customer demanding a certain bottle before a business would invest in a machine to placate this demand. Case in point the beer filling machine that Boyle was selling in 1915 was for a specific product, the blob top bottle. I'm sure he also had another machine for his crown top soda bottles, or he wouldn't be so willing to part with a six month old beer filling machine. Assuming the crown top filling machine most likely took the place of his Hutchinson filling table, there was no machine that I know of, then he would have to purchase one or invest in reinstalling the Hutchinson table in order to fill the order of one seller who couldn't let go of them. This makes no business sense unless he had that as we call them at work "company saving customer".


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Morb ~

 The New Jersey bottle website is where I found epackage's Hutch bottle where I read the entire thread, including the part about the dates of operation for the David Boyle company. Hopefully Jim/epackage will be able to fully explain the various dates on his David Boyle bottles. I gathered from what I read that the varied dates were when each of the individual bottles were produced/used, but admit I could be mistaken about that and will wait and see what Jim has to say before drawing any conclusions.

 I agree it might be a lot to accept that a bottler like the one in Augusta, Georgia would have the necessary equipment to handle more than one type of bottle at a time, but with so many bottlers selling their earlier equipment and replacing it with the newer Crown equipment, it is not impossible to believe the Augusta bottler either picked up one of the older machines for a bargain or possibly brought it with him when he started the bottling facility in 1902. I suspect the same thing might pertain to the David Boyle company - multiple types of equipment for multiple types of bottles.

 Please trust me when I say I am not trying to overly assume or speculate anything regarding the existence of a blob-top Coca Cola bottle from Augusta, Georgia. Its just that I am still about 1% unconvinced that the Coca Cola blob bottle in question is a fake. I am merely searching for a plausible explanation for its possible existence, including the fact I am not 100% convinced that J. L. Jones wouldn't recognize a fake when he saw it, especially if it was one of his own bottles. Let's not forget he gave the bottle a value of $25.00 to $30.00, which is about ten times the value of most of the bottles in his book.  

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Here's the introduction again from the J. L. Jones book. Notice where it says ...

 "Prices shown are not my own, but from actual sales and *competent* authorities in this field."

 This indicates to me the Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottle must have come under the scrutinization of someone who knew bottles and bottle values at the time and possibly even sold in the price range indicated. Maybe I'm wrong, but I still think there is more to this mystery than meets the eye. Its easy to assume it's a fake - but not so easy to establish that it might not be a fake.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Speaking of Hutchinson bottles ...

 Earlier I said I never heard of a machine made Blob-top bottle. Well, have you heard of a *machine made* Hutchinson bottle?

 Check it out ...

 1929 Machine Made Hutchinson ~ Made by the Owens Illinois Company for the Puerto Rican market. Also one by the Owens Bottle Company in 1928 ~ Considered the latest Hutch's ever made ...

 [ Scroll to Hutchinson Spring Stopper heading ]

 http://www.sha.org/bottle/closures.htm

 "(Note:  Two extremely unusual machine-made Hutchinson sodas have been reported to the author [Bill Lockhart pers. Comm. 2011].  One example was made by the Owens-Illinois Glass Co.  For a Puerto Rican soda bottler in 1929; the other - also made for the Puerto Rican market - was produced in 1928 by the Owens Bottle Co. - a precursor company to Owens-Illinois.  Both bottles are base date coded and are the latest known Hutchinson bottles.  Click on the following links to see photos of the 1929 bottle: full bottle view; view of the base showing the glassmakers marking and date code ("9") for 1929.  [Photos courtesy of Zang Wood and Bill Lockhart]  There are no known machine-made Hutchinson soda bottles produced for American bottlers - or at least yet known - so the mid to late teens must be considered the end date for production of these bottles for U. S. Firms.)


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Base with 1929 Owens-Illinois mark ... (Owens-Illinois was formed in 1929 and this was likely one of their first bottles).


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2013)

David Boyle bottled both beer and soda and dated his bottles every year from 1897 well in the teens, there is also a 4th style dated 1911 that I've named a "CRUTCH". As you can see it's the exact size and form of a hutch, but with a long neck and crown top. The really strange thing is the 1911 blob is ABM, but the 1911 crown top is tooled and the 1911 crutch is also ABM.

 You'll also notice that he had a 1910 crutch, tooled lip, but I have never seen or heard of a regular 1910 crowntop. 

 Feel free to ask me any questions


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2013)

All four 1911 bottles side by side...


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2013)

Boyles earliest known crowntops are the 1908 and 09 ambers that you see here, I have not seen one earlier than 1908. As you can see they are different in both shape and color...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Jim ~

 Question:

 Why do you think David Boyle would use four different bottles in 1911?

 Thanks

 Bob


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2013)

I'm thinking the hutch and crutch were for soda or mineral water and the blob and crown champagne styles were for beer... 

 I do find it odd that the two I figure are for beer have the TBNTBS embossing but the hutch and crutch do not.


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2013)

I have 60 different Boyle bottles in my collection counting seltzers, I know of at least 10 others, he's the true cornerstone of any Paterson collection...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Jim ~

 Thanks

 Another question ... (Because at this point I would rather not assume anything even if the answer seems obvious) 

 So does the use of four different bottles in 1911 mean the David Boyle Company had different equipment to handle different bottles?

 Bob


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2013)

You would think so Bob but it's possible that he didn't, he also built some of his own equipment, so he may have made improvements to adapt one machine to perform multiple tasks on different styles of bottles. I have no way of knowing for sure, and he may have had multiple machines, anyone who takes the time to have his molds reworked or redone every year could have done anything. He designed, built and sold this bottle cleaning machine as well...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Jim ~

 Great information - Thanks a million.

 ~ * ~

 I'm currently researching bottle handling equipment and came across the following from a 1926 Illinois Glass catalog. Scroll to the bottom of the page under the heading ...

 "Machinery Division"

 ... where you will find numerous pages devoted to various types of bottle handling machines including washers, fillers, corkers, cappers, etc. But in order to easily read each page, you might have to increase the zoom to about 200% or larger. I'm still reading through it myself and was surprised to discover how many different machines were available to bottlers. Even more surprising was how little space was required to use the equipment in a typical bottling room. I realize the catalog is from 1926, but it leads me to suspect that earlier bottlers could have used similar equipment to handle a variety of different needs, within the same bottling plant. Which in turn suggest the Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottling company could very possibly have handled every type of bottle including Crowns as well as Blobs. 

 Check it out!

 http://www.sha.org/bottle/igco1926.htm


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

P.S. ~

 For those who are not familiar how to change their zoom, on my computer all I have to do is click on the "page" option on my taskbar and a box pops up with various options including the zoom change option. But be sure to change it back when you're done or else everything you do afterwards will be super-sized.

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

I scanned this page from David Graci's 2003 book titled ...

 "Soda and Beer BOTTLE CLOSURES 1850-1910"

 Notice I underlined in red where it says ...

 "Hand and Knee Bottling"

 and ...

 "200 dozen bottles a day"

 ~ * ~

 Which suggest to me that even if a bottler didn't have the latest, fancy equipment, he could still fill quite a few bottles in a single day. Maybe the Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottler had one of these "hand operated bottle filling machines" to handle special orders for special customers. Also notice where it talks about inserting a cork with a wooden mallet.

 I had to reduce the size of this image in order to post it, so you might have to increase your zoom to read it.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 3, 2013)

Jim/epackage ~

 I forgot to tell you, I now stand corrected about never hearing of a (ABM) automatic bottle machine blob-top bottle. Thanks to you I have learned a number of new and interesting things today.

 Gracias' Amigo ... [sm=thumbup.gif]

 Bob


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## celerycola (Oct 3, 2013)

Birmingham Bottling Company opened in 1911 using both Hutches and crowns. They were still using Hutches in 1914 when the mold was re-worked adding contents to comply with the Gould Amendment. There was still a market for Hutch bottles in 1918 based on ads in the bottlers magazines.


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## morbious_fod (Oct 3, 2013)

I stand corrected, I did not realize they were actually dated, I only noticed one bottle with a date on it, which made me dubious. I assumed they would have replaced their Hutchinson filling equipment with the newer updated crown top. As Epackage said; however, the different types were most like due to different types of beverages rather than specific customer requests. I'm pretty sure that a Hutchinson table was more of a hand operated device than an automatic machine, so anything is possible, but Augusta's blob top isn't a Hutchinson. So they may have not needed it at all.

 Still yet, these facts about a completely different bottler don't bring us any closer to settling your 1% issue.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 4, 2013)

My Summarization regarding the Augusta, Georgia Blob-Top Coca Cola soda bottle ...

 Description ...

 1.   It is pictured in J. L. Jones 1972 book.

 2.   It is valued in the book at $25.00-$30.00.

 3.   It is described in the book as a Hutchinson.*

 4.   It has a Blob-top closure and not a Hutchinson closure.

 5.   It is straight sided and apparently aqua colored glass.

 6.   It is described as 7 3/4 inches tall and 8 ounces.

 7.   It has Coca Cola embossed in script on the lower portion.*

 8.   It has Augusta, Georgia embossed in block letters on the lower portion.*

 9.   It is one of three Augusta, Georgia script Coca Cola bottles pictured in the book.

 9.   It is one of approximately 50 other script Coca Cola bottles pictured in the book.

 10. It is the most valuable Coca Cola bottle in the book.

 ~ * ~

 3A*  There is no true Hutchinson Coca Cola bottle pictured in the book.

 7A*  One of the other Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottles is a Crown with mid-script.

 8A*  One of the other Augusta, Georgia Coca Cola bottles is a Crown with lower-script and except for the closure/size/contents appears almost identical to the Blob-top.

 ~ * ~

 Etc. ...

 1.  There is currently no known example of a Blob-top Coca Cola bottle in existence today.

 2.  The general consensus from forum members is that the bottle is fake and was originally a Crown-top that someone applied a Blob-top closure to.

 3.  Coca Cola expert Bill Porter said he is not aware of one and feels it is most likely not genuine.

 4.  There is no known picture nor a reference to a Blob-top Coca Cola bottle on the Internet or in any other books I am aware of. As far as I know, the J. L. Jones book is the only place where the bottle appears.

 ~ * ~ 

 Summarization ...

 Although the majority of evidence points to the bottle as being a fake, I am remaining open minded to the possibility of it being genuine. I base this on my newly formed saying in that a bottle is innocent until proven guilty. The lack of evidence in support of something's existence does not automatically constitute it's non-existence. 

 Although I know very little about J. L. Jones, nor any of the individuals who assisted him in the publication of his book, I get the impression they were competent collectors and would easily recognize a fake bottle when they saw one. As I indicated above, the Blob-top Coca Cola bottle is only one of approximately 50 Coca Cola script bottles pictured in the book, which suggest to me that J. L. Jones and his contributors were acutely familiar with Coca Cola bottles, their rarity, and values in 1972. When I take into account everything involved in the publication of the book, which included gathering, photographing, identifying, categorizing, valuing, describing, and listing over 2,000 varieties of soda and mineral water bottles, I find it hard to believe that the Blob-top Coca Cola bottle in question missed their scrutinization and that they included it in the book on a whim. In other words; I feel they believed it was genuine even if it might not have been and is the reason they included it in the book. Consequently, if they thought it was real, then I have no reason to think it wasn't unless something presents itself to prove otherwise. To those who feel J. L. Jones, his book crew, and possibly members of the Greer bottle club, were all fooled by the Augusta bottle, I acknowledge and respect your opinions even though I may not agree with them. Thus, I am currently 51% of the opinion the bottle is genuine and 49% of the opinion it is a fake.

 I suppose only time will tell should another bottle like it ever surfaces. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if the same bottle pictured in the book is sitting on someone's shelf this very moment. Find the individual who has it and the mystery will be solved.  

 Respectfully,

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 4, 2013)

My next major contribution to this thread will involve ACLs from the J. L. Jones book. Just wait until you see some acls the book contains that I have never seen before and have some questions about.

 Bob


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## epackage (Oct 4, 2013)

Calling it a hutchinson makes me question who ever it was that actually ID'd it for the book, it's like eBayers who are selling "pontiled" Listerine bottles, it throws into question how much they really knew about bottles to begin with... Now if we could just find a blob top Popeye cola the world would explode... []


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## celerycola (Oct 4, 2013)

Jim, I share your doubts on the Augusta bottle. Since it does not appear or warrant mention in the recently published Augusta bottle book, written by the guy who organized the local club in the sixties, and knowing J. L. 's sense of humor and the prevalence of replaced tops at the time, facts outweigh any "hunch" the bottle is real.

 By the way, I picked up a pair of Popeye Colas at the NC bottle show last weekend for $15. Unfortunately they are not blop top or Hutchinsons.


> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> Calling it a hutchinson makes me question who ever it was that actually ID'd it for the book, it's like eBayers who are selling "pontiled" Listerine bottles, it throws into question how much they really knew about bottles to begin with... Now if we could just find a blob top Popeye cola the world would explode... []


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## T D (Oct 4, 2013)

I hear Jones' sense of humor mentioned again, and it makes me think along the lines I did earlier in this thread.  Suppose Jones did not collaborate with anyone, photographed all the bottles in his collection, self valued them, and made a book?  I'm not saying this happened and once again do not even want to hint that this is what happened because I never met the man, but in theory it could happen.  I do know that at least three South Carolina collectors that I know and respect either have or want the book, so it must mean something to them.

 I conclude that in my estimation, the probability of there being a blob top Coke from Augusta, Georgia is .0000000001 % yes and 99.9999999999 % no.

 Somebody count the zeros and nines to see if that adds up to 100.


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## Bass Assassin (Oct 4, 2013)

Since it is one of the first books, what if he intentionally fabricated the blob, put it in his book and listed it as the most valuable bottle in order to entice people to get a copy of the book and start collecting? In other words he shows this highly valued bottle and its value just to hook people into collecting.  Then, he sells more books on a farce he created. Maybe he did have a sense of humor


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 4, 2013)

*The book speaks for itself ...*


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## celerycola (Oct 4, 2013)

There was no eBay in 1972. Prices were based on local SC market. Jones apparently attended only his local bottle show at Greer organized by Richard Lezier. He didn't attend the next nearest show at Augusta or shows at Raleigh, Knoxville, or Atlanta. The book is valuable because it pictures 2000 soda bottles, mostly from the Carolina's and Georgia. Paul Jeters 1980 book has a lot of history but few pictures. When the new comprehensive SC book is out in a few months Jones book will be less relevant.


> ORIGINAL:  T D
> 
> I hear Jones' sense of humor mentioned again, and it makes me think along the lines I did earlier in this thread.  Suppose Jones did not collaborate with anyone, photographed all the bottles in his collection, self valued them, and made a book?  I'm not saying this happened and once again do not even want to hint that this is what happened because I never met the man, but in theory it could happen.  I do know that at least three South Carolina collectors that I know and respect either have or want the book, so it must mean something to them.
> 
> ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 4, 2013)

Speaking of the 1972 J.L. Jones book and *acls* ...

 This should be an easy one, especially for North Carolina collectors. But one I am not familiar with and have a question about. The text is on page 130 and it is pictured on page 131, and described as ...

*Crown Quality Beverages ~ Canada Dry Bottling Company ~ Charlotte, North Carolina ~ 1930*

 Question:  Is this a *1930* acl?

 Bottle C-57


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 4, 2013)

Text ...


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## OsiaBoyce (Oct 4, 2013)

.


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## OsiaBoyce (Oct 4, 2013)

1939 Laurens Glass Works. HTF now. Sell anywhere from $15-$40


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## epackage (Oct 4, 2013)

It appears that book is full of "mistakes", either by the author, the contributors or the printer... []


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Osia ~

 Please tell us more. Is it from Charlotte N.C.?  Canada Dry? Anything on it about 1930?

 Thanks

 Bob


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## OsiaBoyce (Oct 5, 2013)

> ORIGINAL: SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Osia ~
> 
> ...


 
 Yes on the where and who. 1930, nowhere but in the book................someone made a mistake with the 9 & 0 somewhere down the line.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Osia ~

 Thanks 

 I told you it would be a simple one. Next time I'll try something a little tougher. []

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Here's one for you Tennessee boys ...

*Big Victory Chief ~ Morristown, Tennessee ~ 1935*

 Were these being made in 1935 or is the date a misread/misprint/typo?

 I collect Big Chief's and have been wanting one of these for a long time but haven't been willing to pay the big bucks they usually demand. Too bad I didn't nab one back in 1972 for $2.00-$3.00

 Bob

 Bottle B-17


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Text ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Hmmm ...

 Gono.com shows a *1934* Big Victory Chief 

 http://gono.com/museum2003/paintedlbottles/paintedb2.htm


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

For Future Reference / In Search Of ...

 If a 1934 'Big Victory Chief' does exist, it will tie with Morbious_fod's 1934 'Jumbo Cola' as the earliest acls known. There have been discussions in the past about the possibility of a 1934 Big Victory Chief, but as far as I know nothing ever surfaced to either confirm or refute it. I recall one forum member saying these bottles were from the 1940s, but now with two separate references coming to light (the 1934 gono.com listing and the 1935 J.L. Jones book listing) I can't help but wonder if the earlier than 1940 examples do in fact exist. It would be easy to dismiss one or the other references as some form of typo, but with two entirely different references seemingly in support of one another, it makes it a little tougher to dismiss. I spent a considerable amount of time last night and this morning searching for anything I could find related to a Big Victory Chief acl, but the only thing I found worth mentioning was an example on eBay from September of this year that was listed for $50.00 but did not sell. I suspect the reason it didn't sell is because of the poor condition it was in. The seller did not indicate a specific date, but the (blurry) picture of the base he posted clearly shows 'Duraglas.' And because of this I know that particular bottle was from no earlier than about 1940. I will post a picture of the base and you can check it out for yourself on the link, but I have been unable to make out the embossed date number other than it is obviously an Owens-Illinois bottle. Anyhoo, its possible the J.L. Jones book might have got this one right - maybe?

 Please note: This is not a case of assumption or speculation. I honestly feel the two references warrant a legitimate investigation into the possibility of a 1934-1935 Big Victory Chief acl soda bottle actually existing.

 Bob

 eBay Link:    http://www.ebay.com/itm/BIG-VICTORY-CHIEF-SODA-BOTTLE-MORRISTOWN-TENNESSEE-TN-DIXIE-BOTTLING-CO-/310744971335?nma=true&is=j0y70GOKg4da%252BqQDfZZb63uVuzc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=NC&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 [ eBay Bottle ~ Ended September 17, 2013 ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Base ~ w/Duraglas ~ 1940 at the earliest ... but this doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't have been produced earlier ...


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## epackage (Oct 5, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> There have been discussions in the past about the possibility of a 1934 Big Victory Chief, but as far as I know nothing ever surfaced to either confirm or refute it. I recall one forum member saying these bottles were from the 1940s, but now with two separate references coming to light (the 1934 gono.com listing and the 1935 J.L. Jones book listing) I can't help but wonder if the earlier than 1940 examples do in fact exist. It would be easy to dismiss one or the other references as some form of typo, but with two entirely different references seemingly in support of one another, it makes it a little tougher to dismiss.


 My research on other bottles often leads to two or more seperate online sites listing bottles like this making me believe that one backs up the other, then thru further research I find out that one site took it's info from the other site and that they are both wrong, so don't go by what you see without further research Bob. 

 Way too many people are just plain lazy and they copy what they find elsewhere on the net without any other documentation or facts, if I hadn't dug further I'd never have found the numerous Paterson bottles I was told DIDN'T exist. It would not surprise me at all if the Gono refernce is attributed to the Jones book in this case, food for thought.


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## epackage (Oct 5, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Base ~ w/Duraglas ~ 1940 at the earliest ... but this doesn't necessarily mean they couldn't have been produced earlier ...


 My guess is that the Big Chief had a 5. on the base that was misinterpreted as a 1935 and not the 1945 that it actually was. The Owens date codes surely were not as widely known and easily deciphered as it is in the internet age...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Jim/epackage

 I agree to some extent except that gono.com list a *1934* Big Victory Chief and the J.L. Jones book list a *1935*. If gono.com was just copycatting Jones, why not use the 1935 date instead of 1934?

 However, I will say this; I discovered something this afternoon that ties gono.com and J.L. Jones directly together and is something I have never heard mentioned on this forum and suspect not too many, if any, members are aware of. Notice in the following two pictures that they are the same image. I have often wondered where gono.com got their black & white images from - and now you and everyone else also knows - they got their images from the Jones book. As for gono.com dates, I was always under the impression they got them from their mass collection of bottles, with each one being categorized accordingly. And they may have, I'm not saying they didn't. But if they used the Jones book for both pictures as well as dates, why not use the same dates that are in the Jones book instead of using 1935 in place of 1934? But irregardless of the exact dates connected with the Big Victory Chief bottle, whether its 1934 or 1944, I still want one and hope to acquire one someday. 

 Anyhoo, here's the Jones book image again  - the gono.com image will follow for comparison ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

And here's the gono.com image. Look close at certain things like the two white dots just above and to the right of the Chief's headdress. It's the same image as the one from the Jones book ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 5, 2013)

Clarification ~

 I did not mean to imply that every image on the gono.com site is from the J.L. Jones book, only that a lot of them are. gono.com has more images and listings than the Jones book does. I'm not sure where gono.com got the rest of their images but they could very well be from their own photographs that were taken and then converted to black & white's.

 Bob


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## morbious_fod (Oct 6, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Here's one for you Tennessee boys ...
> 
> ...


 
 My personal opinion is that this is not a 1935 acl. My reasoning is that many early acls don't usually have neck labels, I'm guessing that this was a much more difficult process until around 1938 or 39. 

 Also it helps to check out when the bottler started.

 Dixie Bottling Company Morristown Tennessee incorporated on June 12, 1945-Public Acts of the State of Tennessee 1947

 It is not an early acl, which makes two acls the author, and his contributors, have gotten wrong.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

Morb ~

 Thanks for the specifics regarding the Dixie bottling company. That's the kind of information needed to help set the record straight. But not only does it draw into question some of the information contained in the J.L. Jones book, it also places a big question mark on the information from the gono.com website that collectors and forum members have been accessing and quoting from for years. Maybe soda bottle collecting isn't as advanced these days as we would like to think it is and in some respects we are still finding our way in the dark. With so few copies of the J.L. Jones book available and in the hands of collectors today, it can almost be thought of as a nonexistent resource when it comes to researching soda bottles, especially values. And now I wonder about the reliability of gono.com. If it were closely scrutinized I wonder how many errors it too might contain?

 ~ * ~

 I think this is as good time as any to reiterate it is not I who listed the 1935 Big Victory Chief bottle in the J.L. Jones book, nor I that listed the 1934 date on the gono.com website; not to mention other topics I bring up. But when I do discover such things, then I see no reason not take a closer look at them. And this sort of thing is going to continue with me - so if I find something related to the hobby of soda bottle collecting I consider interesting, no matter how controversial it might be, I'm going to follow that lead and see where it takes me. If there are those among us who feel I believe everything I read, then this very statement should set the record straight in that I don't. I am openly stating I now stand corrected regarding the production date(s) for the Big Victory Chief acl from Morristown, Tennessee - but not because of popular opinion, but because forum member Morbious_fod presented substantiating information to refute the 1934 and 1935 dates. 

 To those who choose to focus their attentions on finding faults with the 1972 J. L. Jones book, I suggest you focus some of that attention on the 2013 gono.com website.

 Respectfully    

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> My guess is that the Big Chief had a 5. on the base that was misinterpreted as a 1935 and not the 1945 that it actually was. The Owens date codes surely were not as widely known and easily deciphered as it is in the internet age...


 

 Jim ~

 I now agree with what you brought to our attention above. Except now, because of Morb having established the correct dates for the Dixie Bottling Company of Morristown, Tennessee, you/I/we will no longer have to "guess" about whether the date codes were misinterpreted.

 Thanks for the contribution

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

The following is primarily for the new members among us who are wondering about my having mentioned a "Jumbo Cola" as being the earliest applied color label (acl) soda bottle currently known. This goes back a couple of years which involved a thread I started regarding a search for the earliest acl. The long story short of it is, member Morbious_fod presented a soda bottle he provided accompanying information with to confirm that the "Jumbo Cola" was in fact first produced in 1934, thus establishing it as the earliest acl known. The following five pictures are what established this previously unfamiliar bottle ...

 [ Front ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

Base ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

Patent ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

Kingsport, West Virginia newspaper article ~ September 20, 1934


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

Newspaper ad ~ September 21, 1934 ...

 Notice the "Coupon Not Good After October 1, 1934" at the bottom of the ad.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 6, 2013)

Morb ~

 Here's something I never mentioned before and would like to bring to your attention now. Please scroll to *Page 434*of the following 2010 pdf article by Bill Lockart of the Bottle Research Group (BRG). Notice where it says ... 

 "An unpublished study conducted by Bob Brown never found a single ACL bottle with a 1934 date code"

 I submitted this information to Bill Lockhart after member Wonkapete submitted his 1935 7up bottle to my earliest acl thread, and at which time I thought the thread was over and done with. It wasn't until sometime later that you submitted your 1934  "Jumbo - A Super Cola" bottle. Immediately following your "Jumbo Cola" contribution, I sent the information to Bill Lockhart who assured me that at some point he was going to correct my earlier submission about the 1935 7up. But I guess Bill never got around to it. In any event, I wanted both you and Wonkapete to know that I clearly pointed out to Bill on both occasions that it was not I who found the 1935 7up nor the 1934 Jumbo Cola, but that it was you and Wonkapete who had found them. Bill's response to this in an email to me was that what mattered to him wasn't so much who "found" the information but rather who "provided" him with it. He added that history/research is full of people who obtained information based on what others before them had found originally, and that my contribution was no different - since I was the one who brought it to his attention that I was the one he intended to give the credit to. 

 Anyway, I just wanted both you and Wonkapete to know I tried to give you guys the credit but failed.

 Sincerely,

 Bob

 [ Please scroll to Page 434  ]

 http://www.sha.org/bottle/pdffiles/EPChap10b.pdf


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## morbious_fod (Oct 7, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Morb ~
> 
> ...


 

 First off I was only addressing what I saw as a mistake, and pointing out that these ended up being two mistakes on Jones' part. Not a personal attack on you, or Mr. Jones for that matter. Just pointing out that the man made other mistakes in his book, so it is possible with his calling the Augusta Coke a Hutchinson, that maybe he didn't realize that it was modified.

 As for Gono.com, it is clear that they got some of their information, but certainly not all, from this book. That being said, you may notice that I don't quote Gono.com, but I do use it as a resource, usually these days for cans more than bottles; however, like every resource you can't just take it at face value and run with it like it is fact.

 I only responded to what sounded like an invitation to discuss the Big Victory Chief, after seeing that the same was done for the Crown bottle. Not a "Tennessee Boy" really, but I do dabble in its soda history.


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## morbious_fod (Oct 7, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Kingsport, West Virginia newspaper article ~ September 20, 1934


 
 Er. That's Kingsport Tennessee Soda. GGGG


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## morbious_fod (Oct 7, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Morb ~
> 
> ...


 
 I appreciate the thought, but honestly I don't really care about the credit. The research is the thing that will out last any of us, credit is a fleeting thing.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Oct 7, 2013)

All things considered - good, bad, or indifferent, I am happy to have have accomplished my primary goal with this thread of spotlighting the 1972 J.L. Jones book, which could very well be the earliest soda bottle collecting book ever published  to devote a large portion of it's pages to applied color label (acl) soda bottles. If there is an earlier book containing acls, I am not aware of it.

 I acquired my copy of the book in 1977 and at the time was mainly interested in straight sided Coca Cola bottles and not particularly interested in acls. I was living in Spokane, Washington and purchased the book from a store called "Ye Old Bottle Shop" which was located in the downtown section of Spokane. The book was five years old in 1977 and I believe I paid about $3.00 for it. I remember the old timer who ran the store and the thousands of old bottles he had for sale. In a back room he had cases upon cases of hobbleskirt's stacked from floor to ceiling that he was selling for $5.00 per case which included 24 bottles each as well as the wooded cases they came in. I also remember one particular shelf where he displayed his 7up bottles, about a third of which were amber, squat varieties. I remember him telling me one day that I should buy one of them because, in his opinion, they would someday increase in value. As I recall they averaged at about $5.00 each, but I never did buy one because, as I said, I was mainly looking for straight-sided Coca Cola bottles. In hindsight, I should have purchased every bottle in the store.

 But the story about the book doesn't end here. Somewhere around 1990 the book mysteriously disappeared during a move my wife and I made from one state to another. Although I looked for the book among our packed boxes, it never turned up so I just discounted it as a loss. And then just a couple of weeks ago I was talking with my oldest daughter about some stuff she had received several years ago when her mother passed away. My wife was also into collecting soda bottles and I knew my daughter had inherited some of the bottles which had been packed away for a number of years. But upon inquiring about them with my daughter, I discovered the bottles were still boxed and that she hadn't even opened them yet and instead just put the boxes on a shelf in her garage. The long story short of it is, my daughter found the J.L. Jones book in one of the boxes.

 The reason I didn't mention the book in my last thread is because, not having seen it in almost 25 years, I couldn't recall the exact date it was published other than I purchased it in 1977 and that it was a used book at the time. Nor could I recall the title or the author's name. The only thing I actually remembered about it is that all of the pictures were black & white and that there were a ton of them. I am happy to report the book is now back with it's original owner, namely me, and that it will be cherished for a long time to come, but not only for the pictures and information it contains, but more so because of the memories it brings to mind from the early days when my wife and I loved collecting soda bottles together.

 Sincerely,

 Sodapopbob


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