# martial law



## rockbot (Aug 7, 2011)

How is that hope and change working for you?[]

 Sorry, I couldn't resist that one.[]

 If anyone has money left in a Bank or Credit Union you might want to withdraw some now. My friends mom tried to withdraw some of her money last week and the Bank denied her. Told her she had to wait three weeks and she could only withdraw $10,000 of the $30,000 she wanted to!

 Depression anyone?


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## RICKJJ59W (Aug 7, 2011)

I wonder if I can withdraw  the whole 10 from my account? oh well 5 bucks for lunch is ok.[]


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## GuntherHess (Aug 7, 2011)

> How is that hope and change working for you?


 
 so far just fine , thanks


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## rockbot (Aug 7, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> I wonder if I can withdrawÂ  the whole 10 from my account? oh well 5 bucks for lunch is ok.[]


 
 I know. I wish I had $10,000 laying around. More like -$10,000. [][&:][]


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## CWBookAuthor (Aug 7, 2011)

*The law*

The money is HERS not theirs unless she just deposited a major check which hasn't cleared yet. If it's a bank, get in touch with lending institution that deals with the bank and start the wheels moving toward ending this wild game. If it's a credit union, she hasn't got much choice other than pulling out $1,000 and then repeat it until her account is closed.  

 Sorry about how a few "banks" act when the economy is so full of problems.  

 Mike


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## rockbot (Aug 7, 2011)

*RE: The law*



> ORIGINAL:  CWBookAuthor
> 
> The money is HERS not theirs unless she just deposited a major check which hasn't cleared yet. If it's a bank, get in touch with lending institution that deals with the bank and start the wheels moving toward ending this wild game. If it's a credit union, she hasn't got much choice other than pulling out $1,000 and then repeat it until her account is closed.Â
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Mike, yes I agree. She is in her 80's and she wanted to withdraw the money as a way to help some of her family caught up in the Japan earthquake/tsunami/reactor fiasco.
 I just thought it was kind of weird and was wondering if anyone was aware of similar problems in their area? or is this signs of bigger troubles ahead?

 I will tell her about your idea of withdrawing $1000.00 at a time. Thanks!


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## rockbot (Aug 7, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 We are doing ok too. A lot more fortunate then most others I talk to.


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## JOETHECROW (Aug 8, 2011)

I hope it doesn't get too much worse too soon, I'm in the process of attempting to re-finance a loan, to help out with the cash flow...[sm=rolleyes.gif]


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## rockbot (Aug 8, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  JOETHECROW
> 
> I hope it doesn't get too much worse too soon, I'm in the process of attempting to re-finance a loan, toÂ help out withÂ the cash flow...[sm=rolleyes.gif]


 
 Its a good time to Joe. I took one out against a portion of my retirement a few months ago. I used the cash to do some repairs to my house and help finance some of my sons education. 
 I much rather owe them (403B) money then lose it in the equity part of my retirement plan![]


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 8, 2011)

I do quite a bit of work for Fulton Financial out of East Petersburgh Pennsylvania,They are a banking institution.They own the following bank chains in the Delaware Valley.FNB bank,Fulton Bank,Laffayette Ambassador Bank,Sylands Community Bank,Swineford National Bank The Bank and The Columbia Bank.
 They liked to keep all of thier banks seperate from each other to give more home rule to each banking institution.Well that is all about to change.The FDIC rates established for banks are about to double becauseof the fallout of the last couple of years.All of Fultons banks will soon be called Fulton Bank so they only need to insure one corporation instead of seven.

 This sounds good less paper work easier tracking odf data ect ect.However as the small institutions disappear control will slowly come under the watch of only the largest institutions and ultimatley our own goverment.Read what Thomas Jefferson wrote about the banks. Google Jefferson see his concerns,he was dead against a national bank as he foresaw the corruption before the bank was even established in Philadelphia.He was a true visionary who unfortunately knew what was eventually going to happen with the banks and we are living proof of it happeneing in our generation.I honestly believe we are on the cusp of a major depression with the likelyhood of a major train wreck type complete economic collapse worse then the Great deppresion.Its not a matter of if its when and how soon.

 What Rock just stated happened to Dr. Dyott the great glass maker from Philadelphia in 1838.He started his own bank Google Dr. Dyott and banking.
 A slow run on his bank turned into an avalanche in a short time that wiped the savings in less then a year and Dyott one of the wealthiest persons in Philadelphia in the early 1800s spent time in prison never to recover from the calamity.Dont think history doesnt repeat itself it does with a vengance sometimes.


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## rockbot (Aug 8, 2011)

Wow!  That is a very powerful read Steve.
 I will look into what you have pointed out.


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## CALDIGR2 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hope and change? Sorry, folks, but all campaign promises went "POOF". Vote for a change next year.


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## Penn Digger (Aug 8, 2011)

Tony,

 I tried to drag a link over but failed.  Search Donald Charles Unsworth and find his obituary where he wished in lieu of flowers that money be donated to whoever runs against Obama in 2012.  Scandal style way to go out but true and funny.  Obama inherited a pile and turned it into a mountain.  Not hard to get elected when you promise to give more free stuff/money to people on welfare and so much of the country's undeserving make it a way of life.  Keep borrowing 44% of what the fed gov pays out.  This country is going down the financial tubes.  Sorry for the rant, don't get me started.

 Makes me remember that bumper sticker "I love my country, but I don't trust my government."


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## morbious_fod (Aug 8, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 
> I do quite a bit of work for Fulton Financial out of East Petersburgh Pennsylvania,They are a banking institution.They own the following bank chains in the Delaware Valley.FNB bank,Fulton Bank,Laffayette Ambassador Bank,Sylands Community Bank,Swineford National Bank The Bank and The Columbia Bank.
> They liked to keep all of thier banks seperate from each other to give more home rule to each banking institution.Well that is all about to change.The FDIC rates established for banks are about to double becauseof the fallout of the last couple of years.All of Fultons banks will soon be called Fulton Bank so they only need to insure one corporation instead of seven.
> ...


 
 Government run banks, didn't we fight this battle back in the 1800's? Where's Andrew Jackson when you need him.


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## rockbot (Aug 8, 2011)

Good to hear from you PD. I feel your pain![][&:][][]


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## rockbot (Aug 8, 2011)

Stock market down another 400+ points today. Is it still "re-correcting itself?"

 Since a lot of American's pension plans are invested in it, does this mean we need to "re-correct" our retirement?[&:]

 Food for thought!


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## GuntherHess (Aug 8, 2011)

Its a good time to buy.  Look at it as an opertunity.
 Thank you tea people.


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## Plumbata (Aug 8, 2011)

My younger bro lost over 3 grand in stock value today. [&:]

 I haven't been on this earth all too long so I have no real experience to compare with the age we are living in, but times are indeed tough as far as I can tell. I tried to get a job for months with no luck, sustaining myself by scrapping and selling antiques. In February, by no means a glowing economic time, I started my own business and am earning a good living now, selling my wares all over the USA and the world. The boss is an arsehole though. [8D] For whatever reason, sales are solid despite the recession, and when college starts up again and students have their loan money to waste sales will pick up considerably. Just got several shipments of new products so when I get it sorted through and made available the biz ought to get that much better. Just 30 minutes ago I sold 75 worth to a fellow in Norway. Cost me all of 5 dollars []. I like bringing in money from foreign countries, it makes me feel as if I am helping America, one small shipment at a time. []

 It's not enough to save the country, but I think by raising myself from dependent to independent I am doing right by this country. Heck, I anticipate needing a few employees in a year or 2! If more people got out and did something about their situation, the gov't wouldn't need to carry the unsustainable burden of jobless entitlement leeches or honest down-and-outers. If I, a 24 year old with no formal business training can create a successful venture or 2 during an economic depression with minimal initial investment, then everybody else out there should be able to do the same thing! I have seen on this forum a greater-than-average number of independent small business owners or skilled tradespeople, which may indicate that the traits we share which drive us to dig, collect, buy/sell, and appreciate old bottles also make us more practical and savvy in the world of business and work. Maybe ABN should be running the country right now.[]


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## GuntherHess (Aug 8, 2011)

> I started my own business


 
 good for you. Its a lot of work but more satisfying than working for someone else.


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## rockbot (Aug 8, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> Its a good time to buy.  Look at it as an opertunity.
> Thank you tea people.


 
 True. A bit scary and one would have to have money to gamble. So do you think a group like the tea baggers []
 would have that much power over this country?
 Kind a gives me hope if a small group can influence the powers that be. Not to say that a totally agree with what is happening but do find it interesting.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 8, 2011)

The tea people got like 40? people in congress, pretty significant.
 Grass roots efforts  can be very effective, just ask hosni mubarak.
 Bad thing is mob forces can be manipulated by charismatic people with their own agendas.


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## JOETHECROW (Aug 8, 2011)

> Bad thing is mob forces can be manipulated by charismatic people with their own agendas.


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## PrivyCheese (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok, I know most of you are just thinking.....NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not this guy! but you know there is no way I can devoid myself from jumping in a good political debate or discussion.....Who else is going to stir the pot?

   I agree I think the worst is ahead of us. We not only have started to slide down the slippery slope....we are at a dead avalanche style free fall. To lay blame on the tea party (much Love Matt) is just as ridiculus as blameing George Bush for the entire mess. For as much as we all loved Ronald Regan ( who I think is one of the greatest presidents in history) he as much as anyone helped us get to where we are today. He raised the Debt ceiling 17 times! He literally spent communism into the ground in the former Soviet Union.

   O'Bama has just seen his re-election go down the drain with the stock market and US credit rateing. He has not shown one ounce of leadership. He rather chooses to blame the tea party. Lets be honest. His policy to turn the economy around was to try to spend our way out...the truth is he tried to borrow his way out. We are broke....everyone can agree with that. Its basic economics 101 that you cant spend your way out of economic trouble. 

   Plain terms: We are in debt up to our eye balls, so we use one credti card to pay on another credit card. Where is O'Bamas plan to get out of this mess? Where is his leadership?  Tax the rich? Big corporations? really? what do you think will happen then? You think they will just take the losses laying down? Just pony up billions of dollars and say here you go....nope, they just raise prices , stash more US dollars over seas and continue to send jobs over seas.


   As much as some people hate the Tea Party and Republicans, their economic policy is more inline to help this country recover economically. Most everyone agrees that entitlement programs need to be reformed, problem is reform means cuts. My opinion is everything needs to be cut...period!

   If not, we will have nothing to worry about. Our economy WILL colapse the dollar will become conferate money and we honestly wont have no one to blame but our selves.

   Thomas Jefferson said: If a goverment  is powerful enough to provide us with everything we need...Its powerful enough to take everything we have.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 9, 2011)

Nothing wrong with expressing your opinion. I would guess more people here agree with you than disagree. 
 I think tea people should be applauded for bringing the debt issue to the forefront of public discussion. The old guard democrats and republicans didnt want to touch it with a ten foot pole. They would rather argue stupid wedge issues like gay marriage or school prayer while the country goes down in flames. I blame the congress and executive but since we have a government 'of the people' I have to accept some responsibility too. I have to think long and hard about voting either republican OR democrat for the forseeable future.  Personally I tend to be socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Maybe i am turning libertarian?
 The biggest problem I had with some of the tea people leaders was they said not raising the debt ceiling to cover money already spent wouldnt have bad repercussions, that was just stupid.


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## PrivyCheese (Aug 9, 2011)

I agree 100% The only problem is that with the election system we now have in place we only have two real canidates to choose from. Also, all you have to do to predict who wins an election is to follow the money. Sadly, who raises the most USAUALLY wins.

   As much as I consider myself a constitutionalist. Its beyond me why our forefathers didnt write an admenment for a balanced budget. I know why it hasnt been added as of recent years. You would think that somewhere along the line someone in history would have had a Homer Simpson moment. Just think if there was an admenment from the begining.....we wouldnt be in this mess. Its such a no-brainer.


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## accountantadam (Aug 9, 2011)

Very well spoken PrivyCheese!


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## GuntherHess (Aug 9, 2011)

The problem with a balanced budget requirement is it will always have a loophole for "emergencies" like wars and thats one of the things that got us into the deficit problem.
 I think the founders were smart enough to forsee requiring a balanced budget could be a terrible restriction in some circumstances especially since they were basically funding a revolution on a credit card at the time.
 ..not worth a continental... as they used to say.


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## PrivyCheese (Aug 9, 2011)

I thought I had only two freinds here at ABN....now I have three. Thanks Adam.


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## bigbadhonu (Aug 13, 2011)

Aloha Rockbot,
 Here is some executive orders that a lot of people dont know about that the govt. can use in a national emergeny... kind of scary..bigbadhonu
 First is from Executive Orders in place dating back to 1939 which Clinton has grouped together under one order, EO #12919 released on June 6, 1994. The following EOs all fall under EO#12919:

 10995--Federal seizure of all communications media in the US; 
 10997--Federal seizure of all electric power, fuels, minerals, public and private; 
 10998--Federal seizure of all food supplies and resources, public and private and all farms and equipment; 
 10999--Federal seizure of all means of transportation, including cars, trucks, or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports and water ways
 11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires; 
 11001--Federal seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, both public and private; 
 11002--Empowers the Postmaster General to register every single person in the US
 11003--Federal seizure of all airports and aircraft; 
 11004--Federal seizure of all housing and finances and authority to establish forced relocation. Authority to designate areas to be abandoned as "unsafe," establish new locations for populations, relocate communities, build new housing with public funds; 
 11005--Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, both public and private; 
 11051--Provides FEMA complete authorization to put above orders into effect in times of increased international tension of economic or financial crisis (FEMA will be in control incase of "National Emergency").


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## JOETHECROW (Aug 13, 2011)

> Here is some executive orders that a lot of people dont know about that the govt. can use in a national emergeny... kind of scary..bigbadhonu


 
 Hope I never live long enough to see any of those!!!


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## GuntherHess (Aug 13, 2011)

> 11000--Federal seizure of American people for work forces under federal supervision, including the splitting up of families if the government so desires


 
 Sounds terrible when you use the internet chain letter paranoid translation doesnt it?
 If you read the real text its a common sense preparedness plan.
 http://www.disastercenter.com/laworder/11000.htm
 The type of thing we HOPE our government will implement in an emergency. The splitting up families deal has been done long before JFK signed this order. For example the Los Alamo scientists were separated from their families to work on the atom bomb.  Men were drafted during viet nam war.


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## suzanne (Aug 13, 2011)

Rick, if you need money I bet you could rustle it up any time by selling some of your beautiful bottles.


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## suzanne (Aug 13, 2011)

I just wanted to say one more thing.  This is a total no-brainer.  I didn't vote for Obama because I oppose the murder of the unborn and I didn't vote for the other guy because he was a rascally republican.   Obama has put himself in position as captain of a vast sinking ship and he has tried  to bail it out by throwing buckets of money overboard to the drowning.  It's not enough because too many people fell overboard.   The Republicans claim that not taxing the rich will inspire in them a benevolent capatalistic desire to create jobs in this country. But wait - they already don't pay taxes on their dividends.  Most of the jobs created are overseas. 

 How about that giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the country?  For reasons beyond my humble comprehension
  Obama is now getting ready as I write this to seal an agreement with Mexico that will allow the  Mexicans to deliver their goods directly in the United States instead of American trucks going to get them.  Politicians say this will be a wonderful thing for our economy because the Mexican government may then stop putting tariffs on American goods.  Pardon me if I am skeptical.  When was the last time a free trade agreement with any country in the world was of any benefit to the United States monetarily and U.S. citizens specifically?

 Third world countries may not invent things or introduce technology but they are keenly aware of the value of a dollar.  They do not have the financial savvy of Wall Street millionaires.  They utilized common sense borne of hard life lessons to gain the upper hand while greedy politicians were giving the U.S.  away in fistfuls and we (well, some of us anyway) were looking the other way.

 How can we solve this problem?  We can't.  Corruption is thick and financially ingratiating special interests everywhere. Many politicians see us the average citizens only as pawns that can be useful to them if correctly manipulated.  

 Now that greedy self serving politicians of the past and present have given away the country it is only a matter of time.  We can not now stand up to China.  They own us.  We can not stand up to Mexico either.  They walk on us.  
 We can not stand up to Japan.  For some reason inexplicable reason their cheap-ass cars are flowing into the country while American Auto workers live in fear of their jobs.  The UAW is not the problem.  People that make decent wages and pay taxes are the foundation of the economy.  Unions are not the solution.  If someone in the work force creates controversy he can be replaced 16 times over.

 I'm not  psychic but we are spiralling out of control and I can foresee no other end than that we crash and burn.  I am a protectionist and proud of it.


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## RedGinger (Aug 13, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Oops, didn't go through.  I was trying to put a thumbs up sign under Gunth's quote.


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## cc6pack (Aug 13, 2011)

I'm with Matt, it's a great time to buy.

 I retired in 2007 and thought I was out of the stock market as far as trading was concerned. In the last 2 years I have bought on the dips. My portfolio is worth more now than when I retired and I've pulled around 40k out of it. Anybody that thinks that SSI was their safety net I'm sorry. I just wish the Roth IRA was around when I started my regular IRA I would not have had pay any taxes on the withdrawals[]


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## GuntherHess (Aug 13, 2011)

Ya, I wish I new something about investing when I was 20.  I'll at least try to teach my kid... if he will listen


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## bigbadhonu (Aug 13, 2011)

Aloha Suzanne,
 That was a great reply and I agree with you 100 percent....As for the executive orders Gunther is right on the military aspect of it but these laws can also be used on civilians on american land during economic or financial crisis. They do not not pertain only with military action and I would not count on the Police or military to come and save you during such an event. Just look at Katrina....You were on your own and it was up to you to protect your family....We are all in a protective nation and the government says dont worry will are here to protect you but when a crisis developes for example like the recent riots in the UK they were overwhelmed with emergency calls, 40,000 to be exact(Every man for him self) and it is not going to be any different here is the US. These laws can and will be used during extreme civil unrest which looks like the road that the U.S.A. is headed on. Everyone is entitled to there own opinion here but dont take it too serious and go out and enjoy life and dig some bottles....


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## rockbot (Aug 14, 2011)

Back in 2010 our then republican governor had the wisdom to sign into law SB358 or (Act 96).

 See how government can easily step on our toes if we let them. Thank you State senator Sam Slom (R) for introducing this bill.


 Please read link below!

 http://www.hawaiireporter.com/hawaiis-2nd-amendment-rights-protected-during-emergency-2/123


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## andy volkerts (Aug 14, 2011)

Well said Suzanne, couldnt have put it better myself. Time to throw all the bas_____ out!!


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## suzanne (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks guys.  I don't know anything about a chain letter but if the government has made provisions to force people into the military how is that different from sending them to Vietnam?


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## harold (Aug 14, 2011)

Exactly, what does this have to do with bottles?  I visit this site for antique bottle info, so why the politics? Aren't there sites for this stuff, so you libs can spew your trash?


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## epackage (Aug 14, 2011)

It's a general Chat Forum Harold, why don't you just find another site that doesn't offend you so you don't come off as a Butt Head on your very first post....


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## GuntherHess (Aug 14, 2011)

> what does this have to do with bottles?


 
 This is an open very lightly moderated forum. People post all kinds of discussions. I'm not always crazy about the political posts because they tend to be divisive but people argue in a civil way for the most part. 
 Whether or not you agree with what people post I think the bottom line you have to look at is the site activity. Antque-bottle.net has been longer lived and more active than any other bottle site. So whatever is going on here must be working.


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## bostaurus (Aug 14, 2011)

The general chat forum was set up so folks could talk about things that matter to them like their kids, jobs, gardens, pets, vacations, and even politics and religion  without disturbing the bottle forums.  After awhile on the forum you begin to care about what is going on with the folks here even if you have never met them.  It is a good group of folks from all walks of life and all backgrounds...just like our country.  Like Gunter says, it does get divisive at times but that is life and we usually agree to disagree and get back to bottles.
 If you don't like the General Chat discussion it is very easy to solve...just don't read that part. 
 Darn, I feel like I am doing the "mommy" thing again.


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## suzanne (Aug 14, 2011)

[][][] Yeah, Harold.


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## cyberdigger (Aug 14, 2011)

Right, we appreciate your contribution to the forum, Harold.. however things are very much under control here.. good luck with your research.. [8|]


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## SC pontil collector (Aug 14, 2011)

I think one of the biggest problems with our country is simply that our government (choose any party) really doesn't represent or care about main street. Look at the what has happened just in the last 11 years to the U.S. NAFTA really screwed us and wasn't that Clinton's doing?
 It seems like our worst enemy is our own government.
 sc pontil collector


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## GuntherHess (Aug 14, 2011)

what's interesting is if you ask people if they think congress does a good job they say no but if you ask them if THEIR congress person does a good job they typically say yes[]   This makes me think that representatives are trying to do what the people who elected them want but not nessisarily whats best for the country as a whole. A government 'of the people' is only as good as the people.


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## appliedlips (Aug 14, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> A government 'of the people' is only as good as the people.


 

      That sums up every problem in America! Politicians are governing the same as our founding fathers did. The only difference is that Main St. has changed what it is asking for.


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## rockbot (Aug 14, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> A government 'of the people' is only as good as the people.


 
 We in a world a shet then! lol []

 As others said it is not one political party. I think we've just become so dependent of our government and the political establishment feeds off of this. 
 We've created a chain reaction of wants, needs and expectations and the politicians figure they can "guide us" to the trough. The out come is total control 
 of our lives.

 What is happened to us?

 The government takes so much from us that I can't even help who I want anymore. Taxes, fees, insurances etc a never ending battle!


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## suzanne (Aug 14, 2011)

NAFTA was Reagan's doing after the Chinese gifted him with a million dollars, but President Clinton certainly backed it up.  And brought Canada in on it too, I believe.    I don't think they knew that they were creating a monster.


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## SC pontil collector (Aug 14, 2011)

I didn't realize Reagan started NAFTA.
 Was Mexico included at the same time as Canada?
 sc pontil collector


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## suzanne (Aug 14, 2011)

I don't believe so but I could be wrong.  I know for sure is that Mexico is
 in a great position to bring their drug wars over the border to the U.S. In spite of the millions squandered  the U.S. has yet to win the war on drugs.  Can you read the writing on the wall?


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## SC pontil collector (Aug 14, 2011)

I really thought way back in the 60's that the drug thing was just a fad. It would just go away in time.
 If there weren't a market in the U.S for drugs it wouldn't be a problem, Too many Americans use illegal drugs, there is the problem.
 I thought NAFTA was the North American Free Trade Agreement, so I was surprised it started with China.
 Everything is kinda in a mess right now.
 sc pontil collector


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## carobran (Aug 14, 2011)

i read this quote in a book,not the exact wording,but it went something like this....''Its coming to a point in this country,where im not sure if i want to vote for somebody stupid enough to want the job''i cant remember who it was................................and this just for laughs,''Im not offended by dumb blonde jokes because i know im not dumb..........and i aso know im not blonde''-DOLLY PARTON


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## suzanne (Aug 15, 2011)

China came before NAFTA.  That does not change the fact that we are in a world of hurt.


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## bostaurus (Aug 16, 2011)

Now they are after the military retirement:

 Our nation demands much from its military, and the retirement benefits in place are not gifts. They have been earned through blood, sweat, toil, repeated deployments, missed births, birthdays, anniversaries and sometimes loss of limbs or life. Shifting the burden of our nationâ€™s fiscal mess onto the backs of our military--less than one percent of our population--who volunteer for decades of service in harmâ€™s way defending our way of life is morally bankrupt. GEN Sullivan, USA, Retired


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## suzanne (Aug 17, 2011)

Those politicians who want to take your retirement ought to give up their own freakin' retirement.


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## glass man (Aug 18, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  suzanne
> 
> I just wanted to say one more thing.Â  This is a total no-brainer.Â  I didn't vote for Obama because I oppose the murder of the unborn and I didn't vote for the other guy because he was a rascally republican. Â  Obama has put himself in position as captain of a vast sinking ship and he has triedÂ  to bail it out by throwing buckets of money overboard to the drowning. Â It's not enough because too many people fell overboard. Â  The Republicans claim that not taxing the rich will inspire in them a benevolent capatalistic desire to create jobs in this country. But wait - they already don't pay taxes on their dividends.Â  Most of the jobs created are overseas.
> 
> ...


 

   NICE !!JAMIE


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## andy volkerts (Aug 18, 2011)

I believe so........


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