# Are the GI 95 and 97 and the  GII 52, historical flasks the oldest made?



## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

Are the GI 95 and 97 and the  GII 52, historical flasks the oldest made?

 The way the mold makers of our historical flasks followed national , trendy and sigificant events that shaped our country
 is it quite possible these three flasks are some of if not the first historical American Flasks ever made.The early Benjamin Franklin flasks made in the New Jersey Glass houses qualify  but one of the  flag/Eagle flasks just might be as old.

 Ben Franklin died in the year 1790.A feeling of mourning and than good remembrance would soon follow.
 My GI-97 flask is very crude and has two sides of Franklin.There is no inscription on the flask.
 The GI-95,and 97 flasks could have been made the following year or maybe in the following ten years
 after his death.That would put these into the category as being the oldest historical flasks.

 The GII 52,53 and 54 flag pint sized flasks which are attributed to Coffin and Hay by Mckearin are probably not correct
 in where they were made and just how early.Coffin and Hay did not become a Glass works official name until the year 1844.
 I can on the other hand see the flasks being made in perhaps the Heston Carpenter(1778 to 1808)The  Gloucester works (1804-1822),The Waterford glass works (1822 - 1880),The Olive works(18o8 - 1820),or The Baltimore glass works (1800-1880s) under various owners and names.(.I base this on the fact that most of the time when a person or event was commerated it was just after (months) to less than a year,the time period the event was acheived.The flasks in question have either 13 stars or 20 stars on them.Here is a chart with the time the and amount of stars added as more states joined the union.The flasks I own are very thin walled and although attention to detail is paramount they seem quite a bit older than the other popular flasks in my collection.

 Here are the amount of Stars in our flag in any given time period.

 13 Stars (1777/1795) 
 15 Stars (1795/1818) 
 20 Stars (1818/1819) 
 21 Stars (1819/1820) 
 23 Stars (1820/1822) 
 24 Stars (1822/1836) 
 25 Stars (1836/1837) 
 26 Stars (1837/1845) 
 27 Stars (1845/1846) 
 28 Stars (1846/1847) 
  29 Stars (1847/1848) 
 30 Stars (1848/1851) 
 31 Stars (1851/1858) 
 32 Stars (1858/1859) 
 33 Stars (1859/1861) 
 34 Stars (1861/1863) 
 35 Stars (1863/1865) 
 36 Stars (1865/1867) 
 37 Stars (1867/1877) 
 38 Stars (1877/1890) 
  43 Stars (1890/1891) 
 44 Stars (1891/1896) 
 45 Stars (1896/1908) 
 46 Stars (1908/1912) 
 48 Stars (1912/1959) 
 49 Stars (1959/1960) 
 50 Stars (1960/NOW) 
 Fifty-one Stars (future) 


 Here are some facts about some of our other American historical flasks.

 The Masonic flasks  GIV 1- 30  particularly from  New England could be as old as the late 1700s to the 1810s.
 Most of the influential persons from the end of the 1700s to the early 1800s were Masons.
 Why wait until the 1820s when the Masons began to be ridiculed to commerate their order with Flasks.

 The GI - 18,19,20,and 21 Baltimore Washington Monument flasks were made right after the completion of the 
 Washington Monument in Baltimore in 1829.This was our countrys first stone memorial to George Washington.
 Why wait to commerate the monument on a flask long after it was completed.

 The Pikes peak flasks the GXI 1-54 were made right after the euphoria of the Gold rush in 1859 and up till 18 70.
 This event was played out over 15 years hence the number of flasks and their diverse nature and location of manufature.

 Sucess to the railraoad flasks the GV-1-9 were made soon after 1826 as a commercial tramroad was surveyed 
 and constructed at Quincy, Massachusetts, by Gridley Bryant, with the machinery for it developed by Solomon Willard. 
 It used horsepower to haul granite needed for building the Bunker Hill Monument from the quarries at Quincy, 
 four miles to the wharf on the Neponset River.

 Jenny Lind arrived in New York in the year 1850 for her first of three years of concerts in the United States
 All of the flasks the GI-99,100,101,102,103,104,105,106,107,108,109,110 were all made in the years 1850 to 1855
 during and just after her big American tour.

 Louis Kossuth became a hero of inspiration for standing up to the Russians and the Austrians ethnic cleansing and helping 
 10,000 refugees escape Hungray Germany and Austria and come to the United states.The ship he arrived on the Mississippi
 was carved into a Calabash flask GI-112 in 1851 by Philp Dolfein.Other Kossuth flasks were made in the same time period
 at the  Bridgeton Glass works in New jersey.

 The only Flasks that don't coincide exactly with one event might be the Washington flasks.
 The early Dyott Wasington Flasks seem to have been made on the twenty fifth anniversary of his death.
 The Later Dyottville Washington flasks were conceivably made around the 1849 to 1855 period commerating the fiftyth year after his death.

 The GII-52 flask in my collection almost looks to me made from flint glass as it is a very pale greyish aqua.
 So I ask the question is it possible the GII-52 flag/eagle flask with 13 stars was made in the year 1795 
 commerating the last year of the thirteen stripes because the next year it went up 2 stars to 15.
 The flag than stayed at 15 stars for another 23 years when in 1818 it went up to 20.
 Could the GII 53 and 54 flasks have been made sometime in the two year period there were 20 stars.
 Why not? Other national events flollowed with  commerative flasks telling the story soon there after.  

 What do the other members that collect these flasks think about my hypothisys.
 It really does make complete sense to me as a commodity is hot when a commidity is popular
 not ten to twenty years after.I have a feeling Drew Brees footbal jerseys wont be selling to well in the year 2030.
 I think the same can be said about the historical flasks they captured the moment right after it happened not decades.

 Here is a picture of the GI -96  Franklin/Dyott Flask side by side with the earlier GI -97 Franklin/Franklin New Jersey flask.
 The mold is slightly smaller on The New Jersey flask and there are differences in the features on franklins bust on each Bottle.
 The Dyott flask is more refined and the spacing is further apart on the medial ribbing which is vertually the same on each bottle.
 The glass is much thinner on the earlier flask.








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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

Another side by side picture showing the medial ribbing on the sides of the flasks.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

The mouths of the two bottles in close.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

The bottles reverse sides are now shown. Dyott is on the GI 96 Kennsington version and Franklin again is on the other side of the New Jersey bottle.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

The GI-96 Dyott side of the bottle.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

The New jersey bottle GI-97 reverse side again an image of Franklin.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

The pontil marks of each bottle.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

Here is the flag/Eagle GII-52 flask attributed to Coffin and Hay in Hammonton.
 I beleive it is much older and was made elsewhere.There are only 13 stars on the flag 
 on this bottle.This leads me to believe its manufacture was not in the late 1830s as
 suggested by Mckearin but in the late 1790s or early 1800s at the latest.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

Picture number 2 the Eagle side of the bottle.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

I will add more to this post later today.


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## earlyglass (Feb 10, 2010)

Steve,

 I am at work at the moment, and basically glanced at your information. I will look at it further tonight. 

 I wanted to note the age of the earliest New England flasks. The flint glass Masonics are the earliest New Hampshire flasks, dating from 1815-1820. They are quite decorative molds, beautiful heavy bottles blown in a wide array of colors. These would include the GIV-1 through 14, although some of them are may have been produced after 1820 as well.   

 Earlier (possibly) New England flasks may be the sunburst motifs which are probably from the same period. These would include the GVIII-5, 7, 16, 18 to name a few... probably blown at the Pitkin Glass works. Other important New England flasks which are quite early are the Jared Spencers which may have been produced at the John Mather Works in Hartford.

 The Lafayette flasks were blown primarily in CT, although a few examples are attributed to NY state. The earliest of these flasks were probably produced in 1825 to commemorate the visit of General Lafayette to the US. These were produced at Coventry, CT although there is speculation that Pitkin produced some as well.  

 I just wanted to add a few tid-bits of New England flask info.  

 Mike


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## kungfufighter (Feb 10, 2010)

I'm of the very strong belief that the first American figured flasks were not produced until after 1815.


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## earlyglass (Feb 10, 2010)

I agree Jeff... that is why I have always felt that the heavy flint glass Keene masonics are some of the earliest historical flasks. Although I speculate that some of the Pittsburgh Washingtons and Eagles may be of the same era? This was probably being played out around a half dozen other glasshouses between 1815-1820.  

 Which mold (or group of molds) according to McKearin to do think are the earliest?

 Mike


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## cobaltbot (Feb 10, 2010)

Although I am not worthy to be discussing flasks with the three of you I am bored silly waiting out this blizzard and really enjoy the knowledge you bring to the forum so please forgive the intrusion.  I recently dug pieces of a GII-54 and a GI-117 at an early site and both of these have 13 stars.  While I agree with your commemorative theory for some of these flasks I think the thirteen star motif was just so strong in a young country as represented by coinage then and even now and that aspect of just using thirteen stars carried forward to the Civil War and beyond.  Now I'll get back to my bromos[&:] (ya gotta start somewhere!)


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## woody (Feb 10, 2010)

I was curios if any flasks are attributed to the Temple Glass factory in Temple, New Hampshire???


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## earlyglass (Feb 10, 2010)

Woody,

 No historical flasks attributed to Temple... it was roughly 30-40 years prior to the dawn of the historical flask era. They produced what you might expect from a Revolutionary era glasshouse... vials, freeblown bottles, chestnuts, etc... and they were primarily in the business of making crown glass (window, bullseyes, etc).

 There were many glasshouses during the colonial times that were producing patterned glass and dip molded patterns. For example, the diamond daisy flasks, ribbed and swirled pitkins, diamond patterns, etc. However, these are not "historical flasks".

 Mike


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## kungfufighter (Feb 10, 2010)

Spot on Steve (cobaltbot)!  Back in the day (as they say) we did not have an ever changing array of heroes and symbols, plastered across an omnipresent 24 hour news cycle.  In contrast to the here today gone tomorrow celebrities of the 21st century, the heroes and symbols of the 18th century enjoyed extended periods of adulation.  Heck, Franklin, Jefferson, Washington, Lafayette, et.al. had a fifty year or longer run at the box office - even Seinfeld can't compare today!


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## baltbottles (Feb 10, 2010)

Steve,

  On the GII-52, 53, and 54. Flag /Eagle flasks I have dug two of these intact and at lease a dozen more broken examples I never really paid attention to exactly what mold I found where. But they show up in Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, and Burlington Nj privies so they were a well distributed flask. I'm sure they would turn up in most mid-atlantic towns. The ones I have found come out of an 1840s context very consistently. I think these flasks are strictly 1840s. And not as early as McKearin thought.

 Chris


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## baltbottles (Feb 10, 2010)

Also the only flasks I have ever found in a pre 1820s context was a couple early sunbrusts in a deep aqua color from an 1790s-1820s pit in Baltimore. These flasks were similar to the GVIII-28 sunbursts. Sadly they both were smashed. 

 Chris


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## earlyglass (Feb 10, 2010)

Chris, 

 I would certainly agree with you that the sunburst motifs are the earliest of the historical flasks. 
 Baltimore, Pitkin, Coventry Keene and possibly Mt Vernon were probably all producing sunburst flasks during the 1815-1820s time frame.

 How I would love to dig the Keene Marlboro Street site!

 Mike


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

The Franklin Flask with no embosing is old, very old Dyott advertised his version in 1824 and again in 1826.
 He purchased the entire out puts of the Olive,Gloucester,and the Union glass works begining in 1814 according to advertisments
 in local papers which I have my possesion and have shown before here at the forum.Franklin Flasks were offered for sale
 in the Bridgeton Observer Newspaper in 1812.I have seen this at the Cumberland count historical society on micro film.
 Adeline Pepper an early glass and particularly new jersey early glass expert and collector had the actuall newspaper from 1812.
 I beleive the Franklin quart  GI-97 was made very early in a New Jersey glass works.
 If you saw and held the flask in person you would see my rationale.When comparing the two side by side
 The flask that I say is older reaks of early Jersey green aqua in color.As for the longevity of early heros the people of the colonial days
 were no different than the folks of today in regaurds to political affiliation and how they thought which direction was better.
 You have to remember just under half of the population during the revolutionary were loyal to the British.Dont think for a moment that
 once the war was over bygones would be bygones.Established familys that were good honest hard working people and played by the rules
 lost all of their personal possesions and left for England to escape ridicule and fear for their very lives.I do agree with you Jeff that the heros of that era
 had more staying power but just like today they had their detractors all along.For the most part my theorys on when flasks were issued
 is pretty solid.The newspapers of the day had a huge role in what was deemed important and of great interest.All of you have brought up good points in the flag flasks origons and dates of manufacture.Ill always accept privy dug dating techniques as pretty accurate.The Mckearins though were wrong about the Franklin flask being the same mold for the GI-96 and 97 When you compare them side by side they are quite different.A newspaper advertising them for sale in 1812 is good enough proof to me that the Franklin Flasks existed at that time
 Mike, Lafayette flasks were offered by Dyott in 1824 The GI-90 and 91.I have the GI-91 and will post pictures when my back heals from all the shoveling of the last week.I dont feel like rumaging through the attic this evening but I promise I will pull it out.


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## cyberdigger (Feb 10, 2010)

I love this forum!


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## earlyglass (Feb 10, 2010)

Steve,

 Yes, you are correct about the GI-90 and GI-91!  My bad... I had New England on the mind! Dyott did some very early molded glass, probably the earliest of the medicine bottles with the Robertson's Family Medicine, so I am sure they produced some very early flasks as well... question is HOW early?  

 Mike


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 10, 2010)

The key here Mike is Dyott and when he became an owner of an actual works.
 According to historical records Dyott did not own the Kennsington Glass works 
 officially till 1825.He was obviously in the glass retail business long before that
 as you stated the Robertsons family medicines were some of the earliest American
 made bottles.Once again the color on the few that you and I have seen is unmistakingly 
 early Sothern New Jersey green aqua.One of the other bottles which I have in abundance
 are very early Turlington bottles these were listed in as early as 1813 in Newspapers
 I have in my possesion by Dyott.The revolutionary war killed all of the famous early glass houses
 in the Mid Atlantic.The Wistars,Stiegel,Amelung,the Stangers at Glasshouse New jersey
  all were put out of business in some fashion by the hardships of that war.The only one
 left standing was the Stangers which changed ownership and became Heston and Carpenter.
 These works were very sucessfull and were for a twenty year period the only game in town.
 They too changed ownership through mortality attrition and became the Olive Glass works in
 1808.Edward carpenter became the owner when his father Thomas Carpenter retired to run a tavern.
 Edward died young and in 1816 his father reinherited the works but  sold them to David Wolf.
 It was David Wolf that established the complete business relationship with Dr. Dyott and later that year Dyott
 advertised he was the sole agent for the works.I beleive these works for the better part of twenty
 years were the makers of some of the first embossed medicines in this country and were already 
 selling bottles to Dyott long before he became their official sole agent. I really feel this Franklin flask 
 originated here and Dyott aquired it through his business relationship with the works


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## kungfufighter (Feb 10, 2010)

> Franklin Flasks were offered for sale
> in the Bridgeton Observer Newspaper in 1812.I have seen this at the Cumberland count historical society on micro film.
> Adeline Pepper an early glass and particularly new jersey early glass expert and collector had the actuall newspaper from 1812.


 

 Love to see a copy of this.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Here is a little history about Dr. Dyotts involvement with three Southern New Jersey glass works.
 Jeff as soon as the weather and my work schedule permit me I ll try and get down to the 
 historical society of Cumberland county.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Page two.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Dr.Dyott makes his move to purchase the entire output of the Olive glass works..


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Dr.Dyott purchases all of the Gloucester and the Union Glass Works of Port Elizabeth.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

The last page Benjamin franklin flasks like these were advertised in the Bridgeton Observer in 1815


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Dr. Dyott tells us he was directly involved in a glass works as early as the war of 1812.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

These pages are the words of Helen Mckearin in the book, Bottles Flasks and Dr. Dyott


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## kungfufighter (Feb 11, 2010)

Hold on now Steve.  The evidence that you are providing is misleading.  Much of what you have scanned are in fact Helen McKearin's words but the image of the Franklin flask and the accompanying text comes from Pepper's book.  THESE ARE NOT HELEN McKEARIN'S WORDS OR FINDINGS.  In fact, if you are quoting Helen McKearin, she states the following on pages 90 and 91 in "Bottles, Flasks and Dr. Dyott."  

 "Thus we arrive at the Dyott articles of paramount interest to flask collectors: his historic figured flasks advertised in 1822.  Dr. Dyott's were not the first American Figured Flasks: Masonic-Eagle flasks had been produced in the Flint Glass Factory, Marlboro Street, Keene, New Hampshire, by Twitchell & Schoolcraft late in 1815 or early in 1816, and in February 1817 Thomas Matherwas advertising his "figured pocket bottles" suitable for the Southern market, produced in his glassworks in East Hartford, Connecticut.  Unfortunately, though Mather gave us a name for flasks with relief designs, he did not give a clue as to the character of the designs.  On the other hand, DR. Dyott named his - American Eagle, ship Franklin, Agricultural and Masonic - the last a design combining symbols of agriculture and Masonry.  And, excepting the eagle on the reverse of the Keene Masonic flasks, Dr. Dyott's are the earliest identifiable historical designs in the large flask family.  These were advertised in 1822."  

 In fact, Helen McKearin does NOT make the claim that you ascribe to her, as it is clear that she does not believe flasks with historical designs were blown before 1822.


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## kungfufighter (Feb 11, 2010)

> Steve,
> 
> On the GII-52, 53, and 54. Flag /Eagle flasks I have dug two of these intact and at lease a dozen more broken examples I never really paid attention to exactly what mold I found where. But they show up in Baltimore, Wilmington, Philadelphia, and Burlington Nj privies so they were a well distributed flask. I'm sure they would turn up in most mid-atlantic towns. The ones I have found come out of an 1840s context very consistently. I think these flasks are strictly 1840s. And not as early as McKearin thought.
> 
> Chris


 
 Hey Chris!  Yes, I too believe that the Flag flasks were blown in the 1840s.  For what it's worth, I don't believe that McKearin conclusively ascribes an earlier date - she simply states that the flasks were _probably_ first produced between 1836 and 1838 and that it is also _probable_ that the mold accompanied Hay when he left Hammonton after the fire of 1838 and that they were used at Winslow during the next few years.  Helen was a VERY careful researcher and unless she had solid documentation to back up her assumptions she would punctuate her comments with commas rather than periods...


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2010)

A New England flag flask with 13 stars produced at the New Granite Glass Works, circa late 1850s. 

 Mike


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Good morning Jeff and others.
 What I have shown is Dyotts involvement with these early works in New Jersey.Chris and Mike make a good case and I was awhere as you are with what the McKearins stated in regaurds to Coffin and Hay.By the way the Mckearnis are not the be all end all as for all their information as being accurate.I threw this out there yesterday for good debate and it has happened which is good for the hobby.Notice I did ask for others opionons and never said my thoughts were Gods word.However I am sticking to my guns on the Franklin flask as they are not the same mold as Dyott used on his version the GI-96.
 I simply showed the timeline in the Dyott book established by Helen.The glass on my Franklin mold is from New Jersey NO DOUBT like you can tell the various shades of New England olives and ambers I have a keen I eye for glass from this area.

 The fact that he was involved with these early glassworks long before he became an actual agent and owner of stands to reason that the Franklin mold has a hellva chance as to being from one of these two glassworks.I never tried to mislead anyone I should of added the text in the Franklin photo but it was late 1:30 AM and I didnt.I did mention a few posts up the Glass gaffers source (Pepper)  which you ripped me about your words,(LOVE TO SEE A COPY OF THIS)

 I did say this up there at the top of this post,(What do the other members that collect these flasks think about my hypothisys)
 And Chris and Mike and yourself answered with good unrefuted knowledge.
 By the way its easy to comment on other peoples posts and both of you are respected for your glass knowlege and opionons by myself and all others here,and I have openly bragged about your web sites greatness,however I dont see either of you taking the lead with your vast knowledge of glass particularly New England glass and sharing more info with us.I would like to come home from work and see that one time.

 You guys can stop hanging your hats on the flag portion of the post you have driven that point pretty well and sold me on the flags longevity.


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## kungfufighter (Feb 11, 2010)

Not an attempt to rip at all Steve - I am sincere in my desire to see the newspaper that you reference, as it would cast new light upon commonly held theories.  My word is by no means the last on any subject, especially old bottles.  I welcome your posts and enjoy the manner in which you challenge other members to think.  I did, however, think it was important to point out that Helen McKearin was not the source of the info attached to the photo of the Franklin flask.  You are correct, the McKearins were not the end all be all but they were very careful to make their assessments using sound documentation and as a result, the great majority of their conclusions remain valid.


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## kungfufighter (Feb 11, 2010)

For those looking to read more of my puffery you can find it here[]

 http://www.jeffnholantiquebottles.com/webpages/ArticlesHome.html


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## justanolddigger (Feb 11, 2010)

Great info here, thanks guys, I love it. Jeff, I have read your article a couple of times. I do have a hard time understanding everything you say due to my own lack of knowledge, but everytime I read it, I understand a little more. I wish I could hold the glass in my hand as I read the article, I think it would help me relate more. Of course, once I get it in my hands, I might not let it go![]


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## potstone (Feb 11, 2010)

I have read numerous books on the early American glass houses
 myself. From what I have read, there seems to be a consistent
 dating of pictorial flask that leans to wards the Masonic flask
 as being the earliest type manufactured. My personal feeling on
 the subject is, the fact that the Masonic lodges and members
 had a very strong influence during Colonial times in the New England states. There is strong belief that the event of the Boston tea party was carried out by a group of Masons. I'm sure that many
  owners of the Early New England Glass houses were Masons
 themselves. To manufacture a flask with the symbolic features 
 that are consistent on the Masonic flask within that time period
 would  only stand to reason. An anti-Masonic movement was ignited in 1826 by the mysterious disappearance of a William Morgan. He was Mason who was accused of reveling Masonic secrets. I believe that the production of Masonic flask during
 the period of the anti-Masonic movement would have slowed
 down considerably. This is only an opinion that I have from information that I have read from multiple resources. I'm
 not quoting this as fact. Thanks, Greg


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Good information everyone it is good to see people debate and talk about what they have discovered.
 There is always room for improvement in ones bottle portfolio and getting people to share their information
 is a great thing for the forum.Jeff sorry for any critcism shown your way it was uncalled for.Same to you Mike
 I value both of your intellects in this hobby and would go no further than ask either one of questions regaurding early glass.
 Same goes for you Chris at baltbottles and Guntherhess and Red Matthews when it comes to early glass.I have some more 
 posts planned in the coming days and weeks and hopefully everyone will add their piece to the knowledge glass puzzle
 at this forum.


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2010)

Steve, There is nothing better than discussing real early American glass... we all enjoy it, and it is a constant learning experience. I appreciate your comments, and your contributions to the forum and the hobby. By the way, I have a crate full of shards in the house, and will be taking some pictures later. Yup, we are glass geeks!


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2010)

OK Steve, Back at you with a New England flask... 

 Here is the very rare GIV-16 Eagle Masonic flask (one of my favorites). Sure it is New England, but does anyone have any speculation as to where it was produced, and why? I will narrow it down, as you might guess... the choices would be:

 1. Coventry, CT
 2. Mt. Vernon, NY
 3. Keene, NH
 4. Other

 I will be happy to give you my thoughts after I have heard from others! Also, keep in mind that there is no real documentation or shards that I am aware of, only speculation and the basis for that determination. In other words, no wrong answers! 

 Mike


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Alright Mike Ill give it a stab.The color could place it in any one of the works you listed.
 The style of the Masonic design looks to be Keene.
 However the surrated edge on the bottle is different than any of the other masonic flasks attributed to
 the New England glass houses.So my guess would be................................Mt. Vernon, NY 
 As the style of the lip of the bottle looks like spring water bottles and maybe this one, here in this picture you have seen this right?[][]


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2010)

Seen it... drooled over it. Have seen one in person too!

 Good thoughts Steve. We should give others a chance to add some thoughts as well. 

 I will add a picture comparing the Masonic arches... a GI-88 (Mt. Vernon), a GIV-21 (Keene) and a GI-83 (Coventry).


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Let me clarify something I have always considered New York as Dutch not English so I dont include people places or things from 
 New York as New England.Thats what I meant by (Different than any of the other masonic flasks attributed to New England glass houses).
 I wasnt really including Mt. Vernon in that statement..........New York is its own place isnt it?


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2010)

We'll call them Glasshouses of the Northeast! 

 I was following you. However, I have often caught myself including NY as a New England glasshouse. Obviously it is not, however there are very strong similarities in glass quality, color and mold forms between the Mt. Vernon glass and the NH and CT glasshouses.... as shown in the last image.


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 11, 2010)

Just like the Stangers and Samuel Huffsey affected the glass look all over the Mid Atlantic and the Mid West,
 some one in New England and New York affected the style of the Masonic, Sunburst , and eagle flasks similarly.
 Do you know who that person might be Mike/Jeff ?


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2010)

Steve, The moldmakers are artists that simply do not get any appreciation for thier elaborate and beautiful designs. Although some glasshouses may have had moldmakers on the premises, most were purchased by independent mold makers. You can see regional influences and molds that have been shared amonst factories. To place one influence to the New England molds, I cannot. McKearin notes a South Boston Moldmaker, Bartholomew, as being a major source to the New England market. Often molds were altered, as we have seen... the GIV-1 and the GIV-2. The change from JP (Justus Perry) to HS (Henry Schoolcraft) during the change of management. I will say this... for a country that had very little in the way of communication, it seems that "style" traveled quickly. The masonic arch was used throughout New England, and quickly spread through the Midwest (GIV-32) and Midlantic (GIV-37). More research needs to be done on the moldmakers and the inception of particular mold motifs. Were the designs commission or simply selected and customized?


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## baltbottles (Feb 11, 2010)

Steve,

 I always enjoy reading your posts. You have spent alot of time researching the early New Jersey and Pa glasshouses.  And I have learned quit a bit from some of your posts.  I will offer my opinions where I can usually based on seeing fragments in datable contexts.

 Mike,

 To me the arch looks most similar to that of the Keen GIV-21. But that could simply mean the same mold maker produced both molds or one flask was the model for the other. I agree with Steve that the lip reminds me of early black glass porters and saratoga waters.

 Chris


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## earlyglass (Feb 11, 2010)

ALthough McKearin makes a possible attribution to a CT glasshouse, this would NOT have been my choice based primarily upon the mold style. Not only does the Masonic arch closely match the Keene arch, the eagle is almost identical. 

 As for the corrugated ribs... the rib style is more closely related to the style of the GVIII-8 and GVIII-9 sunburst flasks than the Lafayette flasks. 

 The lip treatment... yes, very close to Mt. Vernon in style, however, this was also done at Keene. The GIV-2, as well as numerous decanters and medicine bottles have this lip application. 

 Color... the GIV-16 comes in a range of colors from aqua to sea green to this deep olive green. All of the colors are represented in Keene regularly, fairly often in Mt Vernon, although considered very rare for CT.

 In conclusion... I believe it was produced in NH... but hell, my opinion is a bit biased!

 Mike


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## earlyglass (Feb 12, 2010)

Another note... There aren't any flasks (that come to mind) with corrugated ribs which are attributed to Mt. Vernon. 
 The GI-88 and GI-89 Lafayette flasks (from Mt. Vernon) lack the corrugated ribs.


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## potstone (Feb 12, 2010)

Everything I have read from all the contributers has been a great experience and learning tool. This is a great way for forum members to learn about the root origin of the hobby
 we enjoy so much. Its great to see the mutual respect members
 have for each other. I will admit,  I have learned a good bit
 of new information about bottles and glass and the history of
 glass houses since I have joined Antique-Bottles.net. Thanks
 everyone for your input. Keep it coming I can't seem to get enough.[]


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 12, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: Steve/sewell
> 
> Alright Mike Ill give it a stab.The color could place it in any one of the works you listed.
> The style of the Masonic design looks to be Keene.
> ...


 

 Pardon me for horning in on this very interesting conversation guys!,...fascinating as this flask debate/conversation is,....what can you all tell me about this bottle pictured earlier in the post? (Other than it's really awesomely cool)???[]             Thanks,...Joe


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 12, 2010)

Joe it is one of the top 5 if not number one or two desired historically important bottles from not to far from where you live.
 You can see it in person along with the GVII-2 at the Corning Museum.


 The bottle is desribed as follows:

 The bottles Mckearin number is GVII-1
 Olive green glass; mold-blown; broad sloping collar, pontil mark. Obverse: in form of log cabin with hipped roof; door at centre with latch string at left and window either side; cider barrel beneath window at right; above door extending across bottle rectangular frame containing the word "TIPPECANOE". Reverse: similar to obverse except inscription "NORTH BEND". Ends and roof: on each side of roof eight graduated vertical ribs and eight on the ends of roof; on each end of flask eleven heavy horizontal ribs representing the logs.

 This bottle is probably the earliest cabin bottle made in the United States
 A little history about the origons of this bottle.


 William Henry Harrison was born on Feb. 9, 1773, at Charles City County, Va. JoinED the army in 1791. Married Anna Symmes in 1795. Governor of Indiana in 1800. Nominated for president in 1835. William Henry Harrison Biography:
 In 1840, he was elected President, but caught pneumonia and died in Washington on April 4, 1841. 

 William Henry Harrison (February 9, 1773 - April 4, 1841) was an American military leader, politician, the ninth President of the United States, and the first President to die in office. The oldest President elected until Ronald Reagan in 1980, Harrison had served 30 days in office, still the shortest tenure in United States presidential history, before his death in April 1841. His death created a brief constitutional crisis, but ultimately resolved many questions about presidential succession left unanswered by the Constitution until passage of the 25th Amendment. Before election as President, Harrison served as the first Governor of the Indiana Territory and later as a U.S. Representative and Senator from Ohio. Harrison originally gained national fame for leading U.S. forces against American Indians at the Battle of Tippecanoe in 1811, where he earned the nickname "Tippecanoe" (or "Old Tippecanoe"). As a general in the subsequent War of 1812, his most notable contribution was a victory at the Battle of the Thames in 1813, which brought the war in his region to a successful conclusion. After the war Harrison moved to Ohio, where he was elected to United States Congress and in 1824 to the Senate, where he served a truncated term before being appointed as Minister Plenipotentiary to Colombia in May 1828. In Colombia he lectured Simon Bolivar on the finer points of democracy before returning to his farm in Ohio, where he lived in relative retirement until he was nominated for the presidency in 1836. Defeated, he retired again to his farm before accepting his second presidential nomination in 1840. 

 Harrison was born into a prominent political family on the Berkeley Plantation in Charles City County Virginia, the youngest of the seven children of Benjamin Harrison V and Elizabeth Bassett. His father was a Virginia planter who served as a delegate to the Continental Congress (1774-1777), signed the Declaration of Independence (1776), and was Governor of Virginia (1781-1784). William Henry Harrison's brother, Carter Bassett Harrison, later became a member of the United States House of Representatives, representing Virginia. Harrison's father-in-law was Congressman John Cleves Symmes. His stepmother-in-law was the daughter of New Jersey Governor William Livingston. He was the first cousin of Congressman Burwell Bassett on his mother's side. Harrison was the last president who was born a British subject. At age 14 Harrison entered Hampden-Sydney College, but was removed by his father after he became involved with anti-slavery, Methodists and Quakers. Later, Harrison attended the University of Pennsylvania, and began the study of medicine under Dr. Benjamin Rush. Harrison was 18 when his father died, and he was left in the guardianship of Robert Morris. In 1793 Harrison's mother died, and he inherited a portion of the family's estate, including about three thousand acres of land and several slaves. Harrison sold his land to his brother after he entered the army. In 1795 Harrison met Anna Symmes, of North Bend, Ohio. She was the daughter of Judge John Cleves Symmes, a prominent figure in Ohio. When Harrison approached the Judge asking permission to marry Anna, he was refused. Harrison waited until the Judge left on business, then he and Anna eloped and were married on November 25, 1795. After the marriage, the Judge was concerned about Harrison's ability to provide for Anna, and sold to the young couple 160 acres (0.65 km2) of land in North Bend. Together the couple had ten children, six sons and four daughters. Nine lived into adulthood and one died in infancy. Anna was frequently in poor health during the marriage, mainly due to her frequent pregnancy. However, she outlived William by 23 years, dying aged 88 on February 25, 1864. 

 After his father's death, Governor Lee of Virginia, a friend of Benjamin Harrison V, heard of young Harrison's situation and persuaded him to join the army. Within 24 hours of meeting and discussing his future with Lee, Harrison, at the age of 18, was commissioned as an ensign in the U.S. Army, 11th U.S. Regt. of Infantry. He was first sent to Cincinnati in the Northwest Territory where the army was engaged in the ongoing Northwest Indian War. General "Mad Anthony" Wayne took command of the western army in 1792. Harrison was promoted to lieutenant that summer because of his strict attention to discipline. The following year he was promoted to serve as aide-de-camp. It was Wayne from whom Harrison learned how to successfully command an army on the American frontier. Harrison participated in Wayne's decisive victory at the Battle of Fallen Timbers in 1794, which brought the Northwest Indian War to a close. After the war, Lieutenant Harrison was one of the signers of the Treaty of Greenville in 1795, which opened much of present-day Ohio to settlement by Americans. Harrison resigned from the army at the end of 1797 to become Secretary of the Northwest Territory, and acted as governor when Governor Arthur St. Clair was absent. 

 In 1799, at age 26, Harrison was elected as the first delegate representing the Northwest Territory in the Sixth United States Congress, serving from March 4, 1799, to May 14, 1800. Because he was the delegate from a territory, and not a state, he had no authority to vote on bills. He was, however, permitted to serve on a committee, submit legislation, and debate. As delegate, he successfully promoted the passage of the Harrison Land Act, which made it easier for the average settler to purchase land in the Northwest Territory by allowing land to be sold in small tracts. his sudden availability of cheap land was an important factor in the rapid population growth of the Northwest Territory. Harrison also served on the committee that decided how to divide the Northwest Territory. The committee recommended splitting the territory into two parts, creating the Ohio Territory and the Indiana Territory. The bill passed and the two new territories were established in 1800. Harrison resigned from Congress on appointment by President John Adams as governor of the newly formed Indiana Territory. The Indiana Territory consisted of the future states of Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Wisconsin and the eastern portion of Minnesota. 

 Harrison moved to Vincennes, the capital of the new territory, on January 10, 1801. While in Vincennes, Harrison built a plantation style home he named Grouseland, for its many birds. It was one of the first brick structures in the territory. The home, which has been restored and has became a popular modern tourist attraction, served as the center of social and political life in the territory. He also built a second home near Corydon, the second capital, at Harrison Valley. As governor, Harrison had wide ranging powers in the new territory, including the authority to appoint all territory officials and the territorial legislature, and control over the division of the territory into districts. A primary responsibility was to obtain title to Native American lands, so that white settlement could expand in the area, enabling the region eventually to attain statehood. Harrison was also eager to expand the territory for personal reasons, as his own political fortunes were tied to Indiana's rise to statehood. In 1803 President Thomas Jefferson granted Harrison authority to negotiate and conclude treaties with the Indians. Harrison oversaw the creation of thirteen treaties, purchasing more than 60,000,000 acres (240,000 km2) of land, including much of present day Indiana, from Native American leaders. The Treaty of Grouseland in 1805 was thought by Harrison to have appeased Native Americans. But tensions remained high on the frontier and became much greater after the 1809 Treaty of Fort Wayne, in which Harrison illegally purchased more than 2,500,000 acres (10,000 kmÂ²) of American Indian land. In 1803 Harrison lobbied Congress to repeal Article 6 of the Northwest Ordinance, to permit slavery in the Indiana Territory. He claimed it was necessary to make the region more appealing to settlers, and that it would ultimately make the territory economically viable. Congress suspended the article for ten years, and the territories covered by the ordinance were granted the right to decide for themselves whether to permit slavery. That same year Harrison had the apponted territorial legislature authorize indenturing. He then attempted to have slavery legalized outright, in both 1805 and 1807. His attempts caused a significant stir in the territory. In 1809 the legislature was popularly elected for the first time and Harrison found himself at odds with the legislature when the abolitionist party came to power. They immediately blocked his plans for slavery, and repealed the indenturing laws he had passed in 1803. 

 An Indian resistance movement against U.S. expansion had been growing around the Shawnee brothers Tecumseh and Tenskwatawa (The Prophet), that became known as Tecumseh's War. Tenskwatawa convinced the native tribes that they would be protected by the Great Spirit. He encouraged resistance. In 1810 Tecumseh, with about 400 armed warriors, traveled to Vincennes were he confronted Harrison and demanded that the Treaty of Fort Wayne be rescinded. Although Harrison refused, the war party left peacefully, but Tecumseh was angry and threatened retaliation. After the meeting Tecumseh journeyed to meet with many of the tribes in the region, hoping to create a confederation with which to battle the Americans. In 1811, while Tecumseh was still away, Harrison was authorized by Secretary of War William Eustis to march against the nascent confederation, as a show of force. Harrison moved north with an army of more than one thousand men in an attempt to intimidate the Shawnee into making peace. The ploy failed, and the tribes launched a surprise attack on Harrison's army early on the morning of November 6. The ensuing battle became known as the Battle of Tippecanoe. Harrison ultimately won his famous victory at Prophetstown, next to the Wabash and Tippecanoe Rivers. Harrison was publicly hailed as a national hero, despite the fact that his troops had greatly outnumbered the Indian forces, and had suffered many more casualties. 

 When Tecumseh's War merged with the War of 1812, Harrison remained in command of the army in Indiana. After the loss of Detroit, General James Winchester became the commander of the Army of the Northwest and Harrison was offered the rank of Brigadier General, which he refused. After a brief time interval, President James Madison removed Winchester and made Harrison the commander, on September 17, 1812. Harrison inherited an army made up of fresh recruits which he endeavored to drill. Initially he was greatly outnumbered, and assumed a defensive posture, but after receiving reinforcements in 1813 Harrison took the offensive, advancing the army farther north to battle the Indians and their new British allies. He won victories in Indiana and Ohio, and retook Detroit before invading Canada, where he crushed the British at the Battle of the Thames, in which Tecumseh was killed. After the Battle of Thames the Secretary of War divided the command of Harrison's army, and assigned him to a backwater post and gave control of the front to one of Harrison's subordinates. Harrison had been having disagreements with Secretary of War John Armstrong over the lack of coordination and effectiveness of the invasion of Canada. When Harrison was reassigned, he promptly resigned from the army to prevent what he called an act that was "subversive to military order and discipline". His resignation was accepted in the summer of 1814. After the war concluded, Congress investigated the circumstances of Harrison's resignation, and decided that he had been mistreated by the Secretary of War during his campaign, and that his resignation was justified. They also awarded Harrison a gold medal for his services to the nation during the War of 1812. The Battle of Thames was one of the great American victories in the war, second only to the Battle of New Orleans. 

 After the war Harrison was appointed by President James Madison to serve as a commissioner to negotiate two treaties with the Indians tribes in the northwest. Both treaties were advantageous to the United States and gained a large tract of land in the west for settlement. Harrison was elected to the U.S. House of Representatives to finish the term of John McLean of Ohio, serving from October 8, 1816, to March 4, 1819. He was elected and served in the Ohio State Senate from 1819 to 1821. He ran for governor of Ohio in 1820 but was defeated. In 1824, he was elected to the U.S. Senate, where he served until May 20, 1828. In the Senate he became known for his impassioned debating. He resigned from the Senate in 1828 on appointment as Minister Plenipotentiary to Colombia, serving until March 8, 1829. 

 After Harrison returned to the United States in 1829, he settled on his farm in North Bend, Ohio, which was his adopted home state. There he entered into a state of relative retirement, after nearly 40 years of continuous government service. Having accumulated no substantial wealth during his lifetime, he subsisted on his savings, a small pension, and from the income produced by his farm. He also earned money from his contributions to a biography written by James Hall, entitled A Memoir of the Public Services of William Henry Harrison, published in 1836. By 1840, the time of his second run for president, there were more than a dozen books on the life of Harrison, in which he was hailed as a national hero. On his farm, Harrison grew many acres of corn and established a distillery to produce whiskey. After a brief time of brewing, he became disturbed by the effects of his product on its consumers, and closed down the distillery. He even went so far as to address the Hamilton County Agricultural Board in 1831, claiming that he had sinned in creating the whiskey, and hoped that others would learn from his mistake and also stop producing liquors. His private life only lasted a few years. He returned to public life and the national stage in 1836, when he made an unsuccessful run for the presidency as the Whig candidate. 

 Harrison was the Northern Whig candidate for president in 1836. The election was the only time in American history when a major political party intentionally ran more than one presidential candidate. Vice President Martin Van Buren, the Democratic Candidate, was popular and likely to win the election against an individual Whig candidate. The goal was to elect popular Whigs regionally, deny Van Buren the 148 electoral votes needed for elections, and then have the House of Representatives, which the Whigs controlled, decide the election. Harrison was nominated to lead the Whig ticket in most of the states. Henry Clay, Daniel Webster, and Hugh L. White were put as the Whig candidate in Kentucky, Delaware, Massachusetts, and Maryland. The plan narrowly failed as Van Buren won the election with 170 electoral votes. A swing of just over 4000 votes in Pennsylvania would have given that state's 30 electoral votes to Harrison, and the election would have been decided in the House of Representatives. 

 Harrison was the candidate again (and again faced Van Buren, now the incumbent president) in the 1840 election. The Whig party now unified behind a single candidate, and Harrison was chosen over the more controversial members of the party, such as Clay and Webster. Harrison based his campaign heavily on his heroic military record and on the weak U.S. economy, brought about by the Panic of 1837. The Democrats attempted to ridicule Harrison by calling him "Granny Harrison, the petticoat general", because he resigned from the army before the War of 1812 ended. When asking voters whether Harrison should be elected, they asked them what his name backwards was, which happens to be "No Sirrah." Democrats also cast Harrison as a provincial, out-of-touch old man who would rather "sit in his log cabin drinking hard cider" than attend to the administration of the country. This strategy backfired, however, when Harrison and his vice presidential running-mate, John Tyler, immediately adopted the log cabin and hard cider symbols, using the images in banners, posters, and creating bottles of hard cider that were shaped like log cabins. 

 Their campaign was from then on marked by exaggeration of Harrison's connections to the common man. Harrison came from an aristocratic Virginia family, but his supporters promoted him as a humble frontiersman, in the style of the popular Andrew Jackson. 

 People singing the chant were supposed to spit tobacco juice while singing the "wirt-wirt" parts. The Whigs also played up Harrison's military record and reputation as the hero of the Battle of Tippecanoe. Their campaign slogan, "Tippecanoe and Tyler too", became one of the most famous in American politics. On election day, Harrison won a landslide electoral college victory, though the popular vote was much closer, at 53% to 47%. 

 When Harrison came to in Washington, he focused on showing that he was still the steadfast hero of Tippecanoe. He took the oath of office on March 4, 1841, an extremely cold and wet day. Nevertheless, he faced the weather without his overcoat and delivered the longest inaugural address in American history. At 8,444 words, it took nearly two hours to read (even after his friend and fellow Whig, Daniel Webster, had edited it for length). He then rode through the streets in the inaugural parade. Most of his business during Harrison's month-long presidency involved heavy social obligations, an inevitable part of his high position and arrival in Washington, and receiving visitors who were seeking his favor in the hope that he would appoint them to the numerous offices the president then had at his disposal. Harrison and Clay had also disagreed about government patronage, which was entirely given at the discretion of the president. Harrison had tried to end the dispute by promising in his inaugural address not to use the power to enhance his own standing in the government; however, the fact of his accession to power had scores of people lining up at the doors of the White House. Harrison's only act of consequence as president was to call Congress into a special session, which he set to begin on May 31, 1841. He and Whig leader Henry Clay had disagreed over the necessity of the special session (which Harrison opposed, but Clay desired in order to get his economic agenda underway immediately), but Clay's powerful position in both the legislature and the Whig Party quickly forced Harrison to give in. 

 On March 26, Harrison became ill with a cold. The presumptive story, which has become common knowledge despite its falsity, is that the inauguration day exposure was the cause of his illness. In fact, it was more than three weeks after the inauguration before Harrison showed the first signs of ill health. The cold worsened, rapidly turning to pneumonia and pleurisy. According to the prevailing medical misconception of that time, microorganisms being then unknown, it was believed that his illness was directly caused by the bad weather, when, in fact, he was likely a victim of the common cold virus, exacerbated by the drastic pressures of his changed circumstances. He sought to rest in the White House, but could not find a quiet room because of the steady crowd of office seekers; in addition, his extremely busy social schedule made any rest time scarce. Harrison's doctors tried cures, applying opium, castor oil, Virginia snakeweed, and even actual snakes. But the treatments only made Harrison worse, and he became delirious. He died nine days after becoming ill, at 12:30 a.m., on April 4, 1841, of right lower lobe pneumonia, jaundice, and overwhelming septicemia, becoming the first American president to die in office. Harrison served the shortest term of any American president. Harrison's funeral took place in the Wesley Chapel in Cincinnati, Ohio in 1841. He was a founding member of Christ Church, Cincinnati. He was buried in North Bend, Ohio at what is now the William Henry Harrison Tomb State Memorial. 

 The untimely death of Harrison was a disappointment to Whigs, who hoped to pass a revenue tariff and enact measures to support Henry Clay's American System. John Tyler, Harrison's successor and a former Democrat, abandoned the Whig agenda, effectively leaving himself without a party.[56] The death of Harrison caused three presidents to serve in a single calendar year (Van Buren, Harrison, Tyler). This has happened only twice in history. The second time was in 1881, when Rutherford B. Hayes was succeeded by James A. Garfield, who was assassinated later in that year. With the death of Garfield, Chester A. Arthur stepped into the Presidency. Harrison's death revealed the flaws in the constitution's clauses on presidential succession. Although the constitution said the vice president would take charge after the death of the president, there was no provision clarifying whether the vice president would become president, or merely acting president. Another problem was that the constitution did not stipulate whether the vice president could serve the remainder of the president's term, until the next election, or if emergency elections should be held. Harrison's cabinet insisted that Tyler was "vice president acting as president". After the cabinet consulted with the Chief Justice Roger Taney they decided that if Tyler took the presidential Oath of Office he could become president in fact. Tyler obliged and was sworn in on April 6. In May, Congress convened, and after a short period of debate in both houses a resolution was passed that confirmed Tyler in the Presidency for the remainder of Harrison's term. Once established, this precedent of presidential succession remained in effect until the twenty-fifth amendment was passed in 1965 and later ratified in 1967, thus becoming law. The twenty-fifth amendment dealt with the finer points of succession by clearly defining in what situations the vice president was acting president and in what situation he could become president. 

 Boy I saw Robert Morris's name again Joe he sure got around didnt he!!


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## Steve/sewell (Feb 12, 2010)

This one sold for 44,000 at a recent auction a commerative ink well.


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 12, 2010)

Thank you Steve for taking the time to post all that, ...and to seriously answer my question.....You are very learned in your early glass and I love to read these posts! I've been collecting and digging for 40 years and still have a lot to learn! ....Again thanks, and I hope to visit Coning glass works museum someday soon...Laur and I could use a getaway and that would be a very excellent place to go to> We've also been considering Gettysburg, Pa...                                                                             Joe 

 P.S. Now I'm going to go back and read this info in all it's detail.


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## div2roty (Feb 12, 2010)

> We've also been considering Gettysburg


 

 Having lived nearby for a long time I would say skip the burg and go to the museum instead.


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## earlyglass (Feb 12, 2010)

Now you have me scanning through the Corning collections...

 I came across this NY State beauty! What workmanship!! 

 Lily pads on the bowl and cover, chicken finial, and an 1829 coin within the stem knop, and an 1835 coin within the cover knop! 

 Simply Amazing!

 Mike


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## earlyglass (Feb 12, 2010)

the coin...


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 13, 2010)

Hey Mike,..Very cool as well....So the coins pretty much date the piece, eh? I'm surprised the heat didn't discolor the coins,....although I do remember little clear bottles blown around a penny as souveniers when I was younger,....[] All in all a very interesting thread! Thanks guys.                              Joe


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## cobaltbot (Feb 19, 2010)

I was looking at GII-54 flasks and noticed that the furled flag side has what appears to be 7 columns of 4 stars for a total of 28.  Using Steve's cool timeline this would be 1846 -47.  Is this a case where they were using the latest flag?


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