# "No Trespassing"



## surfaceone (Jul 10, 2010)

Good evening everyone,








 Over the years, I've done some some pretty blatant trespassing, but it's been for a good cause; bottles and old weird stuff in the ground. 

 When I see fenced construction sites, I'm always looking for a way in, so that I may have a look around. I've found some great stuff. I've had some construction workers leave me bottles, when I've made them aware of what I'm doing. I've been asked nicely to fill in my holes by a few, and was happy to do so, even though there's giant earth moving equipment on site. 

 This year I've had a coupla very unsatisfactory encounters with "security" guards. Early this spring, I noticed that a public project had removed their security fences. I thought, "OK, then...," and went to have a look at the dirtpile. I grabbed my potatoe rake (a Dan Quayle autograph model) and my favorite scratcher and scouted the open back perimeter. Plenty of nothing... I went to have a look at a big dirtpile from the other side, saw a car parked near the construction trailer, and decided to come back another day. I turned to go, and was 50 feet from the sidewalk, when I heard yelling behind me. I kept on going.

 "Don't move, mother-bleeper!" got me to stop. Twenty feet away was an older gentleman in full official "security guard" uniform, including the fake fur trooper hat with badge. He was pointing his old Smith & Wesson right at me. "Get yer A$$ over here, NOW!" I raised my arms, still holding my potato rake and scratcher. He had me walk back.

 "What the Bleep are you doing here!" he yelled. I started to tell him. He just yelled, "Shut the hell up!" When I got within 10 ft. of him, he yelled, "What the Bleep do you have in your hands?" 

 "My tools..." sez I, "I'm an ..." He says, "Drop em, right now!" from his version of the combat shooting stance. I drop the potato rake, but the scratcher is looped around my wrist with the leather thong. Now he grabs me and starts shakin me around, while waving his gun.

 I'm not a big guy. He's over 6 foot, and 200+ pounds. I'm also the wrong color for this fellow. I drop my favorite scratcher. He shakes me around some more, and says, "Now, get the Bleep outta here!"

 I say, "Can I have my tools..." He goes back to the combat stance.

 I guess not. This is making a No Bottles day, all that much worse.

 I think of a lot of ways to return the favors to this gentleman, but just let it go. Chalking it up to experience. Bad experience, but...

 ***********************************

 This early evening, I was scouting a construction site, of another soon-to-be surface parking lot. I've talked to the surveyor on site. I asked him if it was okay to look around. He said, "Not really, they don't want anyone on this side of the plastic orange snow fence. Kinda sketchy that snow fence. Lotta gaps and really no deterrent. It did have those "No trespassing" signs.

 I found the top of a privy, or trash pit, that had been freshly scalped by the earth moving equipment, within a few minutes of sliding through a gap in the plastic fence. I started digging. Lots of ash and shards.

 I had just started, was trying to find the edges and was down about a foot & a half in the middle, when I heard a loud whistle.

 I turned around, and saw an unmarked black Crown Vic with 2 men in blue motioning to me.  I grabbed my stuff and started to walk in there direction.

 All guns remained holstered. They wanted to know what the heck I was doing. I told them. They asked if I had permission. I said that I had talked to various people and had received mixed responses. They suggested that I come back Monday during business hours. I said, "OK, will do. Sorry to bother you." 

 One of the guards wanted to know if I found anything. I showed him the one clay marble, real nice little child's pot lid and a glass cabochon, from a piece of jewelry I had found. He didn't seem too impressed.

 I left.

 ++++++++

 The second part of a pit I found was at the bottom of a retention pond to-be. It's down 10 feet below grade and invisible from the road. It's the older of the 2 I found, I believe.

 Would y'all come back tomorrow and try to dig that? What would you do? They saw my vehicle. Didn't even ask my name. What's a digger to do...

 +++++++

 This site sits between a Roosevelt era  series of projects, and a school. The other day, when I was there, actual Police officers stopped by and wanted to know what I was doing. They warned me that there was some real bad characters in the projects, and that I should be real careful. They didn't say a word about trespassing. Guess they had better things to do.

 +++++++

 I'd like to hear your stories of the fine points of trespassing for digging sites. How to deal with "security guards," or whatever your thoughts are on the matter. Thanks...


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## JOETHECROW (Jul 10, 2010)

Surfaceone,...Back about 20 some years, a digger friend from Lockport NY and I were in the old Buffalo NY dump near Grider and Ferry St. NOT a great neighborhood. It was the site of an ancient lead smelting plant and has since had a major environmental clean up. Back then it was just a huge victorian dump. We had been there (for our first time) about an hour, when from our dig holes we hear car doors slamming, voices, two way radios and footfalls on gravel and broken glass. We freeze up. There's two Buffalo police looking down at us. They say...."Come up outta there" we say "okay". They say,....Watch yourselves in this neighborhood, we say "okay", After a few more questions, they say "Come over here and check out this great Radam's microbe killer we dug here last week",....we say " (looking at one another) "okay". What are the odds they were diggers? We checked out their bottles (they had them in the trunk for some reason) and discussed the site for a few more minutes, They said, "don't dig near that chain link fence towards the water tower" we said, "okay".....They left, we dug,....some of our best stuff till this day. True story.        J.B.


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## whiskeyman (Jul 10, 2010)

SURF...I guess that's up to you...being as you are trespassing I don't see how you can legally deal with security guards. Back in the 70s I was rather blatant about trespassing. Was jailed twice in 2 different counties, shot at twice ,and stared down the barrels of a shotgun another time. Had to abandon my digging tools on yet another occasion.  Was it worth it ? Considering I ended up empty handed on all occasions and have a police record now, (which in the state of VA remains forever), I guess it wasn't.

 I'd opt for permission before risking arrest.


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## mr.fred (Jul 10, 2010)

With all that bad luck coming your way[]-----its just a matter of time before you get into some real trouble[&o]--------is it worth it?----i guess only can decide that.  I have been chased by the best[sm=tongue.gif]----but never caught---1 time on my 4 wheeler by a Seneca Marshal  with a 30-30 strapped on the front of his----i stopped that crap[]---because around here if you break the law (s) on the reservation they can and will take and keep all of your things.  Your truck----car--- etc.  Whatever your caught in at the time[]. So now i walk in ---- or get dropped off[&:]. That's my choice[8|].  Give whatever your going to do some serious thought.   Fred.


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## swizzle (Jul 10, 2010)

All of my run ins with the law have been from emptying bottles, not digging them. []. New digging spots can be tough to find. The spot I'm digging now wouldn't be all tore up if there was no trespassing signs up. I believe its town property but don't know for sure. In the back woods where I'm from if a tree was missing a posted sign then through I went. Only once did I hear voices and a dog came down. I never saw the dog but could hear him sniffing around as I was heading out. Its a shame too. I dug a $300 coke bottle outta that dump. Later I heard that they wouldn't allow anyone to dig on there property and were always like that. Fine with me. My young and dumb days are coming to a close. I see trespassing signs more and more like roadblocks. That's why I've been having a tough time finding a new dump to play in. Good luck finding a legal place to dig. You might also try advertising on Craigslist to get places with permission. Swiz


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## GuntherHess (Jul 10, 2010)

As a kid I used to dig in all the wrong places, some REALLY wrong. Got run off many times but kids can usually get away with anything. As an adult, and with the work I do, no bottle is worth getting arrested so I only dig places that are safe. Maybe when I'm an old geezer I can wonder onto places again, old people can get away with a lot[]


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## woodswalker (Jul 10, 2010)

I have been to a piece of property several times with no trespassing signs....the one with the silo...and where I found the buggy parts....I just parked my car across the street in a driveway of a house that was for sale and figure whats the worst that could happen....i was paranoid every time i heard a noise....
    Its about 2miles from my parents house so i think I'll just have them drop me off and let me dig....and when I'm done call them to come get me. there is a tree stand out there but no hunting in July so I better hurry...I think I found the privy spot last time I was there....I dont think the owner even lives in this state but leases the land to farmers......but I can't quit thinking about that place...i have this feeling in my gut that just calling me to come back.....But what to do??? I think I'm gonna take a risk and go for it.....

 I cant believe the guy pulled a gun on you....this place is way out in the sticks so I dont have to worry about gaurds just hillbillys and the meth cooks that like hiding out in them woods....
   I always carry a knife with me and I wont hesitate to hit someone with a shovel either if they sneak up on me....Im going to get my bf to start going with I think[]

  Manda~


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## glass man (Jul 10, 2010)

BACK IN THE 70S A OLDER GUY OWNED THE LAND THAT HAD THE 1900S TOWN DUMP ON IT.HE WOULD GIVE PERMISSION TO DIG TO NO ONE...ALSO THEY SAID HE WOULD COME DRIVING HIS RIDING GRASS MOWER,HAD A HARD TIME GETTING AROUND,ALSO WAS TOLD HE HAD A GUN!

 WELL I HAD HEARD OF SOME OF THE GREAT STUFF THAT HAD BEEN DUG THERE BEFORE HE BOUGHT THE PLACE...WELL TEMPTATION GOT THE BETTER OF ME AND THERE I WAS DIGGING AWAY WHEN I HEARD THE MOWER GETTING CLOSER AND CLOSER..I THOUGHT ,WHAT THE HECK,MAYBE I COULD REASON WITH HIM.

 WHEN HE GOT TO ME I WAS DIGGING UP SOME OLE CRAP BOTTLE..FIRST I HAD DUG..HE ASKED WHAT THE HELL DID I THINK I WAS DOING ON HIS PROPERTY...I SAID DIGGING OLD BOTTLES.HE SAID WELL AT LEAST YOUR HONEST,BUT NO DIGGING ON MY LAND..HE SAW I ALMOST HAD A BOTTLE DUG UP AND HE SAID WELL GO AHEAD AND DIG THAT ONE UP,I AM GONNA GO OVER HERE AND SHOOT MY GUN TO SEE IF IT STILL SHOOTS.I GOT THE BOTTLE,BUT WAS A LITTLE UNERVED WHEN THE GUN WENT OFF NOT FAR FROM ME..I SAID THANK YOU AND LEFT..HE HAS BEEN DEAD FOR YEARS AND THE PLACE HAS REALLY BEEN DUG AND REDUG. JAMIE


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## surfaceone (Jul 10, 2010)

Good morning everyone,

 I'm a little revved up today. There's pacing goin on, here. Internal dialogues... 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Thanks Joe, great story. Charlie, I hear you. Mr. Fred, Here's hoping you don't have a gift for prophecy.[] Swizz, I just got closed outta my late great dump, and have been searching, searching... Matt, I'm probably a junior geezer, by official Geezer Standards, maybe that's why they didn't beat me more senseless than I already am... Manda, be careful out there.

 This is an old part of town. There is potential for pontiled goodies. I'm really torn. That pit, or what remains of it, at the bottom of the retention pond is calling to me. I already scratched it a bit. There's at least a foot of ash and some tantalizing yellow ware pieces/parts just laying there, waiting...

 Unfortunately, the only other way into this spot, involves parking at the projects, and walking a fur piece in a neighborhood where I stick out 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 pronouncedly. What's a digger to do...

 Thanks for the tips and advise. I'm still debating & pacing... Keep those cards & letters coming.


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## RedGinger (Jul 10, 2010)

I know the temptation, but if you're not allowed there, you're not allowed.  I figure bottles have waited this long, so if there's a spot I can't dig, maybe in the future, I'll be able to dig it.  Why not go back and talk to the owner of the property?  You'll feel a lot better.

 Fred, I understand we have taken the Seneca's land, but there has to be a way for their and our law enforcment to come up with a better solution.  I guess they probably don't want to.  It's sad that our white ancestors created this situation and that their, what's the word, antecedents? continued this with their construction of 86.  We should all get together to try and live in harmony.  I would do what I could to help out our Seneca neighbors and be their friend.  On a side note,  I'm really excited for the Pow Wow next weekend.  Want to go?

 Good luck Surfaceone.  Maybe you should make up some of those business cards and the disclosure that idigjars (Paul) made.


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## whiskeyman (Jul 10, 2010)

SURF...give the contractor an option. Either allow you to dig or you'll contact the "Archies" and they'll shut down the site for weeks/months...[]

 I tellya, I'd be sorely tempted to just scoot in there and dig that.  [8|]


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## RedGinger (Jul 10, 2010)

That's a good idea, Whiskeyman.  I wonder if your state is one in which the construction people are legally obligated to call in the state archaeologists when things are found.


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## surfaceone (Jul 10, 2010)

> I know the temptation, but if you're not allowed there, you're not allowed.Â  I figure bottles have waited this long, so if there's a spot I can't dig, maybe in the future, I'll be able to dig it.Â  Why not go back and talk to the owner of the property?Â  You'll feel a lot better.


 
 Gd'afternoon Lauren,

 The owner of this property is either the feds, or the Department of Real Good Skooling, I'm not really sure which. In rationalizing away here, I'm sayin to myself, "I'm a taxpayer, I'll even pay a diggin tax, but geeze-Louise!" I've tried to get permission to dig on land owned by quasi-public agencies before. If you want to go on an never ending snipe hunt, try even finding the person who might give permission, let alone receiving an answer that doesn't begin with, "Our insurance carrier doesn't..." 

 The contractors are moving real fast now. I'm thinking that the retention pond, is about to be filled with real large boulders. Though, I've not yet talked to them, I've received too many fast, dismissive answers that begin with, "Our insurance carrier doesn't..."

 I guess I'm just plain flustered, frustrated, and frazzled. I have a real problem walking away from a clearly 19th Century exposed privy or trash pit, that is about to be buried, or paved over so that someone can more easily park their Datsun. 

 I'm not prepared to do a night dig here. Anybody have any good guerilla digging advise? I'm trying not to look up the penalties for Trespassing under the influence of antique bottle fever. Charlie, if you don't mind my asking, how long did you get in the hoosegow?

 Prolly just another case of durned if you do, double durned if you don't. But, still...

 Hey Jamie, another great tale. Have you listened to these guys? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



From.






 "Who ya gonna call..."


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## RedGinger (Jul 10, 2010)

Do you have anyone you could ask to be a lookout for you?


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## CALDIGR2 (Jul 10, 2010)

Construction "rent-a-fences" and "rent-a-cops" mean nothing to me. If old Barney Fife had pulled his gun on me I would have folded him up like a pocket knife and confiscated his weapon. He then would be placed under arrest and consequently lose his job, one that he shouldn't have in the first place. You DO NOT draw your weapon on a trespasser, especially one that is walking away. That man is a danger to himself and to others. I'd hie myself back there and do a repeat encounter, after calling the local police and informing them of the previous encounter with the gun totin' moron.


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## Lordbud (Jul 10, 2010)

Don't park next to the lot/site. Park across the street but not directly across, or around the corner. Go early in the morning just as it's getting light preferably a Sunday morning or a holiday morning. Scope the place out, gather your backpack/tools and don't look around, or over your shoulder -- act like you belong there. Have a digging buddy with you. I've even worn dayglo reflective vests over my shirt on occasion. Calling attention to yourself in a subtle manner is like not calling attention to yourself. Try to keep your tools in your backpack until you get to the actual privy or place you want to dig. Carry shovel, probe and any other large tools in an upright position parallel to your body. And the main thing is strike when the opportunity is there. Once the site is built upon it's gone forever.


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## mr.fred (Jul 10, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  Lordbud
> 
> Don't park next to the lot/site. Park across the street but not directly across, or around the corner. Go early in the morning just as it's getting light preferably a Sunday morning or a holiday morning. Scope the place out, gather your backpack/tools and don't look around, or over your shoulder -- act like you belong there. Have a digging buddy with you. I've even worn dayglo reflective vests over my shirt on occasion. Calling attention to yourself in a subtle manner is like not calling attention to yourself. Try to keep your tools in your backpack until you get to the actual privy or place you want to dig. Carry shovel, probe and any other large tools in an upright position parallel to your body. And the main thing is strike when the opportunity is there. Once the site is built upon it's gone forever.


  Gotta say![8|]-----sounds like a working plan to me[]


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## pyshodoodle (Jul 10, 2010)

and wear a hardhat.


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## appliedlips (Jul 10, 2010)

I have always pondered collecting No tresspassing signs, myself.[]  


     Not that I am condoning tresspassing but an ability to B.S. in essential if you are going to do it. Always have your story worked out ahead of time, use your counties auditors site to help out. Most commercial construction sites are owned by a bank or corporation. Get the name of the company, make up a name of a contact person and dig on Sunday or after hours so there is no way to contact the owners. If approached be confident and go on the offensive, something like " this is getting old, I've been digging here for a week and get hassled everyday, now if you don't mind I have bottles to dig." I used to do almost all of my digging on vacant lots and construction sites and have been approached by the police, security, and land owners  more times than I'd like to admit. I have been blessed to have not gotten in any trouble, but it is a risk. It is my theory that those chainlink and orange fences are placed there to keep out the vagrants making for a more relaxing digging experience. I rarely dig without permission anymore but will never pass up large scale construction projects in major cities. They will be developed and will never be accessed again.


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## pyshodoodle (Jul 10, 2010)

I know someone that used to remove No Trespassing signs and bury them. If approached, he would apologize and say he didn't see any signs.


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## Dansalata (Jul 10, 2010)

i used to put on a vest and hard hat and tell em i was workin, if they asked my name i gave them my brothers hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## morbious_fod (Jul 10, 2010)

Surface as an ex-rentacop, unarmed one as well, I can give you an opinion from the security guard's point of view. Granted the first guard you mention, yeah John Wayne (aka overly serious cop wannabe with a gun), obviously had no decent training in handling trespassers. Yeah cussing and pointing guns in a "combat position" isn't exactly encouraged. Anyway even with the over acting on his part, he was completely in the right and actually if he had any training at all would have detained you until road patrol or what ever his back up support would be showed up, and they would contact the proper authorities to book you for trespassing, which you were very much guilty of. The cat was a class a douche, but he was doing his job, if he hadn't then he would have lost his job, trust me. Be glad he let you go.

 I wouldn't have hesitated to have you arrested for trespassing if you had come on to my mine site during my time at that job, especially with tools. Lots of copper wire on mine sites, and people always seemed to have sticky fingers. Nothing against you personally, that is the security guard's job to watch the employer's property. It's not even that the company cares if you go digging, it's the insurance liability and the possibility of your suing if you get yourself hurt on their property.

 So the next time a security guard or police officer stops you trespassing on a site, remember you're the law breaker, not them.


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## surfaceone (Jul 11, 2010)

Hey Joseph,

 Thanks for the security guard perspective. I agree that I was trespassing, but think that "John Wayne's" response was outta line. It was my mistake for not thoroughly circumnavigating the site before walking on. I drove up from the back street side, saw that the fences were gone and said to myself, "Oh, boy..."  

 I find it interesting that at the most recent site, I've been questioned, in a totally friendly manner by two actual police officers who were interested in what I was doing, made no mention of trespass, and encouraged me to watch my back in a dangerous neighborhood at twilight.

 Yesterday's encounter with the security guards was also cordial and professional, but resulted in my removal from the site. I understand that this is their job, and they did it well. I bear them no ill will.

 Tomorrow is another day. If it is not incinerator hot, I hope to incorporate a couple of the guerilla tactics fellow members have suggested into my bag of tricks. Where the heck is my hard hat?


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## recusant (Jul 11, 2010)

I have found out afterward that I was on so called "historic land" but there were no signs anywhere.I will never leave my tools behind.Period.I would not ask if I could keep my property,I would have just slowly picked them up and left.You dont bring a potato rake to a gun fight and if he had shot me,he had better hope I didnt live.I must be the worst kind of Cynic because the older I get,the less life means to me.

 Beware the fury of a patient man - John Dryden (1631-1700)

 Diogenes was asked,"What is the difference between life and death?"
 He replied,"No difference."
 "Well then,why do you remain in this life?"
 "Because there is no difference."


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## whiskeyman (Jul 11, 2010)

Surf...overnight - after I made bond in both cases,  I got 1 year probation...One case was dropped as the owner never showed for 3 hearings, so I lucked out on that one.
 Oh...BTW...neither property was posted...True. And I had permission to be on one, but the neighbor called the Sheriff...I was hauled off to jail. Come court day the owner backed the neighbor - after all I was a no one.

 I know what you're saying - I hate the idea of walking away from something that will likely never again see the light of day...

 Woodswalker...both VA & TN have laws to call in the "Archies" for significant finds...and in some cases, as in Knoxville several years ago,...some significant only to bottle diggers, but of no real interest to Archaeology...the Archies_ ran off_ the diggers and , confiscated their finds...IF not for the diggers, the finds would never have been found, if ya know what I mean...[&:]


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## glass man (Jul 11, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   NOPE!  ANOTHER ONE I AIN'T HEARD!WHERE YOU FIND THESE?   

 IT IS SO HARD NOT TO DIG ON LAND WHERE THERE ARE GOOD BOTTLES AND THE LAND IS BEING USED FOR NOTHING...I KNOW A PERSON HAS THE RIGHT TO NOT LET FREAKS LIKE US  DIG..BUT I'M JUST SAYING...


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## woodswalker (Jul 11, 2010)

Went back to the foundation thats been calling out to me...of course its the one with the no trespassing signs....parked my car in the driveway across the street( house for sale not lived in) ran across the street with my probes and BF in tow.....I probed the dump area on the hillside and was astonished how far down I could feel glass...all the 40 and 50s stuff is on the top...now I know there has to be some stuff with age down under there....Also think I found the privy....its kinda a sunk in area and you can still see where there were boards for the floor..probed it and felt stuff.....So we decided that while the crops around are still growing and there is nothing in season to hunt were going to take our tools and have my parents drop us off...they live about 2-3 miles away....then just pick us up when we call.  I think that way no one will even know were there...and It's so far out in the boonies and no neighbors real close so I don't think we'll be spotted and hopefully not shot at!! I'm thinkin next weekend if the weather is good I'm going to be there very early in the morning and find that treasure thats callin to me.....I've got a gut feeling about this place and I'm gonna go with it and take the risk.....[][][]
 Manda~


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## Blackglass (Jul 11, 2010)

I've had a few run-ins

 The first was last year when I went biking down town. theres an area where the highway meets the road and there is a very steep hill off one side of it. Now, I had a lot of time on my hands, so I decided to go explore the what was behind the guard-rails and see what was to be seen. It was public property, so I figuered no one would care. I parked my bike in a dumb location, where everyone driving by could see it, and I looked around down there. There was tons of bottles and trash, mostly junk, a few things from the 1950's. 45 mins later I heard some crunching in the woods and saw a distant figure. I thought "Oh great, someones stealing my bike!". So I ran up and saw a police car and 2 officers. They asked me what I was doing and I was nervous, I suppose, and I blurted out " I am taking a jog". My thought right after that was "IDIOT!". They started asking questions like I was doing drugs and I decided I would tell them I was digging for bottles, which is what I was doing. They told me they didn't want people down there because there having trouble with homeless people camping down there or something like that. They said the town didn't want people digging down there because there was quote "Historical artifacts". I almost laughed at that one. So I can through some boxes and some coca-cola bottles down there and they would considered "artifacts"?Stupidity.....Fortuanatly, the cops were very understandable and let me go without any more questions, unlike the cops in my other run-in.
 ___________________________________________________________________

 My second run-in was on Easter this year when my family was visiting our grandparents in Mass. The railroad tracks run right behind there, and we decided to take a walk, with a bunch of my cousins, on the tracks. We walked up and back, and most of us had gone in to the yard, when 2 officers came stamping their feet and yelling over towards me and one of my cousins, we were not in the yard yet. I threw what I had found on the ground, so as he wouldn't take it from me, but saw me and made me pick it back up and bring it to him to see it. He didn't take it away, but then he singled out my cousin and and started asking him his name, number, location, and other things. Then half the party came over. The cops argued that some reported us throwing rocks at cars under the bridge. I have no doubt someone reported us, but I do not believe that anyone reported "rock Throwing", because we hadn't even gone as far as the bridge. I've learned that the average citizen is less likely to lie than most police officers these days, so I had (and still have) trouble believing their claim. Now, I did not know (along with my father) that walking on railroad tracks was trespassing. there wer no signs anywhere stating so. The cop that was doing the talking was one of the most anger-ridden of persons I have ever seen, and his assistant did nothing but take down notes. After making a few jail threats, they left. I did atleast come out with a rubber insulator and a giant spring[]

 As far as digging on other peoples property without permission, never do it. The property owners have a right to shoot you if they feel it right, because you are on their "castle" without prior reservations, so to say. Besides that, it is also morally wrong. I mean, you wouldn't want people cutting down trees for their fireplace on you land.
                                                      Michael


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## waskey (Jul 11, 2010)

I had a bad experience this spring with a place. I was walking on an old road which had some old houses at the end and a stream so I walked down to the stream and found a huge dump site with all bottles from 1890-1950s and started scratching around and pulled out some nice milks when I heard a voice from the top of the hill who said get outta there; its private property!!!" I grabbed my bottles and digging tools and went up to see the man standing at the driveway and he asked what I was doing and I told him and he said it wasn't his property but he knew who onwed the property and said that the owner would want me to ask him. 

 So my mom drove me back to the owners house the next week to get permission and after we drove up the old gravel driveway we approached a well kept old house on the top of a large hill over looking the valley along with some other old run down poor houses in the woods. I walked up to the house and knocked on the door for permission and a man about 50 or so answered it and told me this "I didn't want to tell you but im a lawyer and your standing on private property" He said there were tons of signs along his driveway that said do not enter and no trespassing but i checked and I didnt see any signs. He said the reason he didn't want me there is because there were bad people in the old rundown houses that didn't want anyone around. He told me how he used to dig bottles as a kid and how its a great hobby. He then told me I could dig down in the dump I wanted to dig in which was on his property and far away from the other neighbors. I only had about a half hour to dig then and found some really nice milk bottles and a ton of broken locals and the dump was huge and loaded and i barely even got into it; i havent gone back since and im not sure if its really worth it.


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## morbious_fod (Jul 11, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> Hey Joseph,
> 
> ...


 
 Trust me there are very few of those John Wayne cop wannabe security guards out there. The one you encountered fits the description quite well, you most likely disturbed his nap. LOL! Most security guards don't like those John Wayne type morons either, I've worked with a few myself, and your encounter sounds like one I have worked with. We were supposed to be unarmed, but he carried a piece under the seat of his truck. He was from McDowell County West "by God" Virginia so I wasn't shocked, but he was a read douche as well.

 Good luck with the hard hat trick, but remember most competent security guards know, at least by sight, every cat that should be on that site, and will ask for credentials of strangers. I did say competent, you may pull one of the countless guards who are just there to take up space. Good luck.


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## luckiest (Jul 11, 2010)

I just dug all morning on a site with security, the guy was sleeping when I got there, and I bet he's at it yet.  Watch your site, check out how they operate and don't let anyone stop you from having harmless fun. (unless they are better security guards then you are a covert digger...)


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## suzanne (Jul 11, 2010)

One time a guy called the cops because he thought I was trying to steal car parts.  The police officers said he was crazy and let me go.

 Another time someone called the cops.  They said "You can't be here, there's asbestos", and let me go. They didn't know asbestos has to be air borne to be dangerous.  Or maybe they did know but were trying to provide me with an incentive to leave without charging me with trespassing.  

 Sometimes if you are around construction sites they will think you are trying to steal equipment.  So if I see an officer of the law I ditch the bucket and tools immediately to look less suspicious and go back to get them later.


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## suzanne (Jul 11, 2010)

One other thing; it helps if you are caught in an area where crime is rampant and the jails are overflowing because the police want to save space for the dangerous.


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## surfaceone (Jul 12, 2010)

Late night greetings y'all,

 I went out to scout this spot this afternoon. The construction site easy approach is at the end of a cul-de-sac. There was only one person parked on the street, so I thought I would stick out a bit too prominantly, especially if Friday's security guards were still on duty. I cruised around the school & didn't see them. Decided to park on the edge of the projects and walk in from the main street entrance.

 Not a No Trespassing sign in sight on the busy street side. Interestingly, they had taken down the chain link fence on this side and replaced it with that orange plastic fence. The radio weather guy said we'd have a high of 86 degrees today. He was about 8 degrees short.

 I beat feet over to the retention pond and started in. There was only about 2 feet of the bottom of what I believe was a trash pit left, but it was chock-a-block with stoneware and pottery shards. Lots of banded yellow ware, and broken crocks. Toms of Ironstone shards.

 The retention pond sides had all been dressed with light tan colored fill. It felt like what I imagine using one of those old school tanning reflectors, 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 only giant sized. Hotter than hot. But,I came for bottles...






 This was definitely the older spot. Got some nice stoneware: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Is the small cylinder a blacking?

 It was pontil era, in part: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Unfortunately, the pontil parts were all busted. A beautiful hair brush back.






 The glass was a little less inspiring than the stoneware. Although, I really like the little lamp base. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 L.H. Olmsted / New York, on the reverse Little Harry's / Night Lamp, base embossed Pat. Mar. 20, '77. A burst top. My first one of these little bitty guys. The L.H. Thomas cone is crude, and perfect.

 I didn't get to finish the dig, as I got called home for dinner. Three and a half hours in that broiler pan of a pond-to-be was sweet, though I am completely french fried on the face. Minimum over shoulder looking, cuz I really was hidden down there.

 Maybe I can make it back to finish. Here's hoping...


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## mr.fred (Jul 12, 2010)

Good job[]-----------do you feel better now?[]


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## suzanne (Jul 12, 2010)

You did well.  You should go back.


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## whiskeyman (Jul 12, 2010)

Congrats on gettin in and out safely...
 I like those pottery inks....[8D]
 It is good to know all this stuff won't end up on a pond bottom forever.


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## surfaceone (Jul 12, 2010)

> Trust me there are very few of those John Wayne cop wannabe security guards out there. The one you encountered fits the description quite well, you most likely disturbed his nap.


 
 Hey Joseph,

 Oddly enough, I cruised by the back street side of this site, on the way to the retention pond site. There was some freshly dumped dirt in the empty lot across the street, and I was just about to get out and have a look. I was about to crack the door open, when I noticed "John Wayne's" other car, parked in front of me, with him in it. I slowly went on by, noticing that his summer model ball cap had enough fake gold braid on it to outfit a platoon. [8D] I



> NOPE! ANOTHER ONE I AIN'T HEARD!WHERE YOU FIND THESE?


 
 Hey Jamie,

_Area Code 615_ was a favorite southern rock band of mine, back in the day. They were sessions musicians from, oddly enough Nashville. Check them out. I believe the above album was their first.



> Good job-----------do you feel better now?


 
 mr. fred,

 I sure do! I hope I can dig out the rest, before they bury it.

 I really enjoyed reading some of y'all's "No Trespassing" stories. No private property was walked upon, in this case. It was and is "public" property. Very oddly posted public property...


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## JOETHECROW (Jul 13, 2010)

I find it a little bizzare to be digging for ancient glass surrounded by new earthworks,....[]It happens sometimes, and it is just another layer of history,...Congrats on getting back in there and rescuing these fine and interesting bottles and the little lamp is real nice too. Glad you didn't have to deal with the over zealous guard again.


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## RedGinger (Jul 13, 2010)

I can see why you wanted to get in there so badly, Surface.  I hope you can get the rest of it out of there in time!


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## surfaceone (Jul 14, 2010)

After Midnight greetings,

 I went back there tonight, and I think I got it all. At least from that pit. Because that one is 10 feet below grade, I was "invisible" to passing security guards.

 I did find a little history of the property. The family that lived there were old line monied. Their son was a prominent industrialist and philanthropist. After his parent's deaths, the home was turned into a home for unwed mothers.

 Oddly enough, the security guards who rousted me, had no business doing so, as they are under contract to the projects next door. The land is owned by the Board of Reel Good Skooling, and they have their own security. Unless they have some sorta mutual anti-digger treaty...

 As I was going home, I saw one of the security guards pulling out of their HQ in the same unmarked black Crown Vic he was driving the other day. I didn't wave, but I did smile...

 Thanks for all your comments and suggestions on avoiding or dealing with security. I'm still a little gun shy of digging above ground on this site, at least while it is still posted. The ground level pit has been compacted, and compacted some more. Though the last time I dug in compacted ground, I found that the first foot or foot & a half was really hard digging and that when I got below that, it was normal type digging.


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## woodswalker (Jul 14, 2010)

I love this thread!!! I'm going to hit my spot early Saturday morning around 7.....were packing up the tools and having my mom drop us off....since they're about 3 miles down the road she said just call and I'll come pick up your first finds and haul them back and then come back and get you when ever were done!!! I hope we won't be bothered...I'm taking my boyfriend out on his first digging experience[8D] (I think he's scared of bugs tho lol) I didn't mention that theres usually snakes to!![]  Can't wait!!! Been awhile since I've found anything outside  a antique store or flea market!!!! Hope this gut feeling I got is a good one[][][][][][] If I didn't work all week I already woulda been there but I came home and passed out last night early!! It's been hot 90 degree humid weather here...hopefully it cools down a bit by the weekend!!!
 Manda~


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## druggistnut (Jul 14, 2010)

I'll enter a  commercial lot, but always try to get permissions on vacant homes, unless the Land Bank has it.
 About three years ago, an 1860's building on Saginaw St in downtown Flint came down. There were brick buildings on both sides, so it was a hole in the long line of buildings.
 The excavators had been at work and were just cleaning out the basements. There were piles of dirt and a couple of deeper holes they had been working on.
 I pulled out the 5 footer, my hardhat, potato rake and a shovel and went to it.
 Unbeknownst to me, the security guard at the nearby Mott Foundation building was eyeballing me on the Hubble telescope type security camera on the side of his building.
 I hear a vehicle pull up and I drop the patato rake. I can't see anyone from down in the hole but someone yells, "hey, come up here."
 Flint's finest are there, along with the 70 year old guard. These are two 250 pounders, looking like they would rather be somewhere else.
 They wanted to know what I was doing.
 I told them that ____ Excavating Co contracted me to come to the site to do soil compaction tests and to also check the depth of the soil to be removed the following day. I told them the company foreman said that they suspected the excavator operators of being slackers and not removing enough soil each day but logging 8 hours. 
 I could see that they were buying the conspiracy theory and were happy I was there to bust the malcontents.
 They left me to my work. I immediately grabbed my potato rake after they left and beat feet to my truck. I wasn't pushing my luck.
 I feel I was lucky to have evaded "justice" and always wonder what I missed there at the site of an early saloon.
 Bill


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## whiskeyman (Jul 16, 2010)

[sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]

 BILL...you just made my day...



 Surf...ya get anything else ?


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## JustGlass (Jul 16, 2010)

This is one construction site I would love to dig.


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## Staunton Dan (Jul 16, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> Maybe when I'm an old geezer I can wonder onto places again, old people can get away with a lot[]


 At what age do you become an old geezer? I just turned 65 and can dig most 20 year olds into the ground. If you don't think that you look old enough, maybe you can try a disguise or dig with one of us old geezers who "can get away with a lot." []


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## woodswalker (Jul 17, 2010)

Wish us luck were heading out to the forbidden foundation!!!! I been up since 6....Josh is moving kinda slow....I may need to light a fire under him to get him moving!!!! Hope we find something cool!!
  Manda~


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## suzanne (Jul 21, 2010)

Druggistnut, that is hilarious.  One time I thought of saying I was with OSHA doing a random inspection for safety violations but I guess you might  need to produce verification.


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## CALDIGR2 (Jul 21, 2010)

These signs are posted in USFS controlled areas. I LIKE a challenge. Who are they to tell me I can't pick up old trash?


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## mr.fred (Jul 21, 2010)

Did you take the sign[8|][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]?.


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## pyshodoodle (Jul 21, 2010)

Right nearby, I'm sure there's a No Littering $300 fine sign.[8|]


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## CALDIGR2 (Jul 21, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  mr.fred
> 
> Did you take the sign[8|][sm=lol.gif][sm=lol.gif]?.


 MOI? Why, of course. Not to worry, there are plenty more posted at "sensitive" areas, most of which have long been dug out. Better late than never, I suppose.


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## JOETHECROW (Jul 21, 2010)

We have those signs on this coast too. The forest service morphed into "Law Enforcement" before land stewardship around here....They write tickets for improper tent placement, atv's etc, while portable drill rigs, and logging trucks pound the forest into adobe dust...We live near the boundary of the only National Forest in Pennsylvania, years ago I worked for them on a summer crew basis, We would replant clearings (read old log camps) and during lunch break I would drift away and dig, when we'd pull back heavy forest sod to plant seedlings, there would be iron artifacts and bottles just laying there. I would fill my pack everytime we did tree planting, One day, a higher up confronted me about this,....[8|] Said it was "against policy"I simply went back on my own time to dig, a few weeks later I worked some off hours and needed some requisition forms.....No brass on duty,....Went to my antagonist's office, let myself in for said forms,....OMG! Bottles, arrowheads, and artifacts lining all the shelves,... Gotta love hipocrisy!


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## CreekWalker (Jul 21, 2010)

Joe , I had the same thing happen in the summers of 77 and 78. I worked for the Dept. of Interior and State Forestry. One was at Fort Pillow , home of the NB Forrest massacre and Natchiz Trace. I look told to keep on workin', plantin trees, marking trails, shooting lanes, etc. while the straw boss dug his fill and had an office full of relics! Thirty plus years later I still enjoy the finds of those two summers.


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## JOETHECROW (Jul 21, 2010)

Hey Rick,....Federal hipocrisy must not acknowledge state lines....Interesting.


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## justanolddigger (Jul 21, 2010)

> These signs are posted in USFS controlled areas. I LIKE a challenge. Who are they to tell me I can't pick up old trash?


 Jimmy Carter, who was supposed to be a bottle collector, signed this law into effect which specifically list bottles as artifacts. I have been warned off federal land, my name taken. If they want, they can take your entire collection, unless you can prove where you got it from. They can also confiscate your truck, atv, or whatever else you are in possesion of at the time. They will assume any bottle that can't be proven was taken from federal land if you are caught digging there. This is one case where I just don't feel the slight chance of reward is worth the risk.
 Bill


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## CreekWalker (Jul 23, 2010)

Bad experiance there ,dude. Try construction sites on state highways where ROW from the landowner was purchased by the gov. The contractors control the abanndoned homes and property, go mid afternoon and look around . If you have a work crew close by ,find the nearest foreman , ask to hunt relics. If he balks, offer a Cold six pack, beer or soda. If the site looks promising,.. a ten spot too, may be needed. The Memphis Diggers have a huge success rate with this technique and so have I. Good Luck.


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