# First bottle out of the new tumbler...



## daeldred (Aug 20, 2009)

Here is blob soda from Memphis, TN. I am using glass beads at about 80rpm. Not bad, I'd have to say. Here's the pre-tumble pic:


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## daeldred (Aug 20, 2009)

Here is the post-tumble pic:


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## GuntherHess (Aug 20, 2009)

How long did you tumble?  Use aluminum Oxide?


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## daeldred (Aug 20, 2009)

I tumbled it for 3.5 days. I used 500 grit aluminum oxide for 2 days and aluminum oxide polish for 1.5 days. All this at 80 rpm. This isn't a "top shelf" bottle so I wasn't as concerned about it being pristine.Otherwise, I might have left it spinning for a wee more. Not bad though.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 20, 2009)

It looks fine to me, good job.


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## Staunton Dan (Aug 21, 2009)

Is 500 grit aluminum the same as or similar to 600 grit silicon carbide which is used as a cutter? The problem that I am having is that when  I use a 2 step process (cut & polish) the 1st cuts properly but the aluminum polish can't polish the glass after it has been cut. There is always a film on the bottle from the cutting process even after 3-5 days of polishing with aluminum oxide. I probably don't need to use a cutter on most of my bottles but straight polishing doesn't seem to cut it either. There always seems to be some residue left if I use just the one step of aluminum polish lets say for 5 days or so. Who can hep me on this?


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## GuntherHess (Aug 21, 2009)

600 grit carbide is pretty durn rough. Have you tried 1200 carbide instead?


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## daeldred (Aug 21, 2009)

Hey Staunton Dan,

 I am still in the experimenting stage, but I am learnig fast. My experience has been that with the 500 grit oxide smooths the bottles out pretty good and leaves a cloudiness to the bottles. It's the kind of cloudiness that wipes away with water but comes back when it dries. I did that for 2 days. Then, I put it on for 1.5 days (longer is not going to hurt) with the oxide polish.The polish takes the cloudiness off and gives it a little shine. Now, I think GuntherHess is right. Try a 1200 oxide. I am going to start experimenting with silicone oxcide only for my most worn bottles. I have some hutches and sodas with heavy case ware that I waht to come out sparkly. If you start with a bottle with not that many scratches then the silicone oxide cutter probably isn't even necessary.


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## daeldred (Aug 21, 2009)

Sorry Dan, I didn't answer your question. Silicone carbide is totally diffrent and MUCH harsher than aluminum oxide. It should be reserved only for bottles that have heavy wear. Also, use sparingly and experiment at first. Once you get the hang of it then you'll know and can get more adventerous.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 21, 2009)

http://www.jardoctor.com/CleaningOxides.htm

 This is a good description of the tumbling powders.
 http://www.jardoctor.com/CleaningOxides.htm
 A bottle would have to be etched or scratched really bad before I would use 600 carbide.
 Ryan is the guy to ask since he has such good results.


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## capsoda (Aug 21, 2009)

Silicon carbide is a good cutter but you will have to go back with a non silicon cutter to remove the SC. Then polish with serum oxide followed by aluminum oxide. The silicon carbide and serum oxide will always leave residue. Metal based cutters don't.


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## justanolddigger (Aug 21, 2009)

> ORIGINAL: Staunton Dan
> 
> Is 500 grit aluminum the same as or similar to 600 grit silicon carbide which is used as a cutter? The problem that I am having is that when  I use a 2 step process (cut & polish) the 1st cuts properly but the aluminum polish can't polish the glass after it has been cut. There is always a film on the bottle from the cutting process even after 3-5 days of polishing with aluminum oxide.


 If you use 600 to cut with, you need to use a 1200 grit in a second stage, and then a third stage with polish. The 600 is too coarse to use and then just polish. If you could look at your bottle under a microscope, the 600 leaves tiny scratches in the glass that 1200 can take out, but polish will not. That is the hazing effect that you are seeing. I only use 600 on my worst bottles, then 1200, then polish. Most bottles without heavy scratches or etching will do well if you first use 1200 to do a light grind, and then follow up with a polish.


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## justanolddigger (Aug 21, 2009)

> This isn't a "top shelf" bottle so I wasn't as concerned about it being pristine


 I think your bottle looks great, a nice job. I would rather see an under tumbled bottle than an overtumbled super slick one anyday. A vast improvement, good going!


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## privvydigger (Aug 21, 2009)

Also your slurry mix is extremely important.  You must have the right amout of copper to water ratio.....every bottles a bit different.


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## bottlediger (Aug 21, 2009)

Copper to water ratios mean very little. its the water to Oxide ratio that is very important

 Dael - your bottle at first look, looks to be under-polished. I would bet if you leave that bottle dry out fully for a month it will look very dull. Keep at it and you'll get it right

 Digger Ry


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## junkyard jack (Aug 21, 2009)

Looks like it turned out very nice!


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## potstone (Aug 21, 2009)

Thanks everybody for your input on tumbling.
 It's a great learning experience for me.   Greg


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## daeldred (Aug 21, 2009)

Hey Ry,

 Thanks for all your previous help. You may be right. It is very clean and much better than it used to be, but it does appear to be drying out and looking little more cloudy now than before. I didn't leave it in that long as I said earlier. I am still in the experimenting stage. I am going to try a 6 day regimen on my next bottle. 2 days 500 oxide + 2days oxide polish + 2 days cerium oxide then a muriatic acid bath. 

 As far as the slurry mix, I used on this bottle: 1 tablespoon on the outside and 1 teaspoon on the inside. Per Ry's instructions, I filled the canister to a little more than 3/4 of the height of the bottle and covered the glass beads with an inch of water. Everything plus or minus of coarse. I think my slurry mix is good. Ry did say that too little water is a BAD thing.


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## privvydigger (Aug 24, 2009)

I've noticed that if you have to much copper and not enough water you get foam and not a slurrry mix.  It happened to me several times and the bottles come out hazy.  Just an observation mind you....I have backed off on my copper and used a little more water and their coming out great.
 Also I want my bottle cleaned and polished to a degree not minty so to speak
 take your time and play around winters coming


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## Bottleman (Sep 2, 2009)

What causes foam in the tumbler? Does anyone actually know? I don't think it's the copper to water ratio.


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## privvydigger (Sep 2, 2009)

I was told its to much copper, not enough water and also I checked with him again he said to much oxide/cutter.  Everytime I opened the tube and there was foam the bottle came out hazy.....I'm doing really well spinning them now....A good slurry is the key


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## capsoda (Sep 2, 2009)

The agitation of the water and cutter/polisher used combined with the chemicals in your water would be my guess. The folks I know over in Pensacola get multicolored foam depending on which they use. I use deep well water and don't get much foam and what little foam I do get is a very light grayish color.

 Improper ratio of water to cutter/polish will cause excessive foam. It takes experimentation to get it right.


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## privvydigger (Sep 2, 2009)

I agree less is more.  I have seen bottles at shows that have no scratch's or case wear.  Definately cut and polished.  I go for clean and sparkly and like to leave the character of the glass intact. the little scratchs and wear give the bottle character and tells of it life.  I have attic mint bottles and their sweet but there is a diference in my opinion


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## GuntherHess (Sep 2, 2009)

I only see foam using copper, havent seen it using glass beads.
 I think it may be reaction between the erroded copper and aluminum in the oxide.


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## Bottleman (Sep 2, 2009)

For the first three years I had my tumbler I would hardly ever get foam. For the last two years though I always get it when I cut bottles but never when I polish them. I also have all separate canisters, copper and stoppers for both cutting and polishing. The majority of the time the foam will be dark grey but I have seen it bright orange to jet black. 

 I still donâ€™t really understand why I get it but itâ€™s a pain to deal with. lol.


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## bottlediger (Sep 3, 2009)

Ive taken a bottle with no oxides or cutters and just filled it with water and copper and threw it on the tumbler high speed. Took it off a day or two later and guess what, dark sud muck water. Its the copper reacting with the minerals in the water.

 Digger Ry


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## redbeardrelics (Sep 15, 2009)

Hi folks, I agree that the eroding copper and polish residue creates some of the foam, but I believe the majority of it is the result of the sickness coming off the bottle, the small amounts of PVC coming off the inside of the tube, and the nylon, plastic, silicone, rubber, etc. coming off your stopples and 3 or 4 prong "fingers".  I have noticed considerably higher amounts of foam when tumbling very sick bottles, using new tubes or stopples, or using any cutter which will eat away at the inside of your tubes etc. more than the polish will.
 Of course if you are using any type of detergent/ SOS pads, etc to clean up and rinse off your bottles before loading them up for a spin, even the small amounts of detergent residue that make it's way into your tumbler, will increase your foaming action.
 Just my opinion for what it's worth.


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## GuntherHess (Sep 15, 2009)

> Its the copper


 
 definately has something to do with the copper, if i use glass beads I dont get foam.


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