# BIB LABEL  ~  WHAT IS IT AND/OR WHAT DOES IT MEAN?



## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

I received a PM recently and was asked what a "bib label" was? Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is ...                                                              "*Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda*"                                 Which is what 7up was originally called before the name was changed around 1930 But what is a bib label and/or what does it mean? I saw a reference once that claimed a bib label was an actual paper label with a hole in it that hung over the neck of the bottle like a baby bib. But whether this is true or not, I do not know and is the reason for this query to see if anyone else knows the answer.


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## iggyworf (Jun 27, 2015)

Bob I did a quick search and found this-""Bib-Label" referred to the paper labels on the bottle," taken from this reference.http://factually.gizmodo.com/7-up-used-to-contain-lithium-1634862072But more research may be needed. Also this - "Bib-label" referred to the use of paper labels that were placed on plain bottles." found in this 7up write up.http://www.neatorama.com/.../What-is-the-7-in-7UP/ But more research might need to be done.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

Iggy: Thanks I've seen similar references but can't find any specific details or pictures of a so called bib label. Here's an example of a soda bottle "*topper*," which were for store displays, but are probably not the same thing as a bib label ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

As far as "Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda" goes, I can't find a bottle label, bottle cap, advertisement, or anything else related to it. And yet I know it existed around 1928-1929. The closest thing I have found is this bottle cap said to date between 1928 and 1929, but it doesn't use the term "bib" ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

As far as the first 7up bottle cap goes, I believe this is the first, and said to date from around 1929-1930. Notice it spells out "Seven Up" instead of using the 7up logo. Also notice it says 6 1/2 ounce ...


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 27, 2015)

Having no idea, maybe this Howdy Corp reference will get you where you need."As for "Bib-Label," it was Howdy Corporation's intent to use paper labels of the sort that could be dropped over the necks of otherwise unlabeled bottles." 
http://www.snopes.com/business/names/7up.asp


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

Cows: Thanks for the link. Based on it and other references like the one iggy posted, it appears a bib label is just as I suspected and was hung on the neck and not glued to the bottle itself. However, I still can't find a picture of a bib label or any references for one except those related to 7up   ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

I also wonder what those so called "otherwise unlabeled bottles" looked like and if they were embossed with anything that might help to identify one? I wonder if they were green or amber colored, and if they were 6 1/2 ounce or 7 ounce?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

By the way, if anyone finds "anything" with "Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda" on it, such as bottle caps, labels, advertisements, or any form of go-with's, I recommend buying it on the spot, because as far as I know no such critters are currently known to exist.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

Here's another reference for "Bib-Label" where it says ... 

_(the 'bib' referred to the practice of labeling bottled goods with paper 'bibs', which made for both economy and efficiency in using the same bottles over a line of various products)_.


Http://www.digitaldeliftp.com/LookAround/advertspot_7-up.htm


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 27, 2015)

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> By the way, if anyone finds "anything" with "Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda" on it, such as bottle caps, labels, advertisements, or any form of go-with's, I recommend buying it on the spot, because as far as I know no such critters are currently known to exist.


I'm thinking it's just a term made up sometime and even adopted by the present owners of 7-UP. I can't find any reference to a Howdy Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda either unless the edge of the cap you posted mentions it.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

Cows: Here's the copy/pasted description that was with the "Lithiated Lemon & Limes Soda" cap I posted a picture of ...  Lithiated Lemon & Limes Soda (7up) ID20632
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





DescriptionLithiated Lemon & Limes Soda (7up) PurposeBottle closureLinerCorkLocationsSt. Louis State/ProvinceMissouriCountryUnited StatesProductSoda/soft drinkBrewer/bottlerHowdy Corporation, The Relative rareness Period used1928 - 1929Extra infoSold on eBay in 10-11 for $62.99 
 This was the first 7up crown and used while the 7up trademark was pending.
 Within the Howdy Corporation. the product was also referred to as Bib Label Lithiated Lemon & Lime Soda


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

But where-o-where is even one of those so called "bib" labels? And I don't just mean the ones used by 7up, I mean those used by "anyone"


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

There is some printing on the edge of the cap but I haven't been able to figure out exactly what it says yet ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

"Whistle" was one of Charles Grigg's earliest creations around 1919, followed by "Howdy" around 1920. And because both of these ads show paper label bottles for those brands, ya gotta wonder why they didn't use a regular paper label for "Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Soda" when it came out around 1928-29 1.  Whistle Ad ... The Gettysburg Times ~ Gettysburg, Pennsylvania ~ April 5, 19202.  Howdy Ad .... The Charlotte Observer ~ Charlotte, North Carolina ~ October 30, 1921


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

Here's one of the earliest 7up ads I can find, which doesn't show a bottle, but it would obviously have been a pre-acl with a paper label of some type, and would likely have been related to the early signs like the one pictured below. 1.  Ad from ... The Burlington Hawk-Eye ~ Burlington, Iowa ~ December 25, 19312.  Sign ... Exact date unknown but likely as early as 1931


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

But where-o-where are all of the "bib" labels?  []


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

According to the information on this website, which I posted the same link to earlier, it says ...  
Http://www.digitaldeliftp.com/LookAround/advertspot_7-up.htm

                     The Howdy Company debuted it's newest product, *"Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon-Lime Sodas"* in October 1929
                 The website also includes this bottle which they claim is a Lithiated 7up bottle dated circa 1931                                    (But where-o-where are all of the "bib" labels and bib label bottles?)                            [ Which were possibly only produced for a short time in late 1929 to early 1930 ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

Even though it is not my intent to do a full history about 7up with this thread, because that's already been done in the past and my focus now is with the bib labels, I do think it appropriate to at least show this picture of one of the earliest 7up *acl *bottles for those who might not have seen one. This particular example is dated 1935, and because of the large 7, seems to be directly related to the 1931 ad I posted along with the similar looking metal sign ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

I recall reading one time, but can't remember where, something about the only Bib-Label advertising item ever produced was a cardboard tag that was made to attach to a pull chain for a ceiling light fixture. I'm trying to find where I read that, and ask if anyone comes across such a reference to share it with us. If the claim is true, and the pull-tag was the only Bib-Label item ever produced, I imagine one would be quite rare and possibly valuable as well.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

Everything I'm seeing so far is described as a bottle "topper" like the 7up example I posted earlier. The majority of these "toppers" set high on the bottle's neck and were intended as eye-catching store displays. But some were like those shown here that hung down from the bottle's neck like a "bib." Maybe what Charles Grigg and crew called a bib label in the 1920s is what was later called a bottle "topper"  ???


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

This is where I read about the placards that hung from grocery store light fixtures                          From ... The Oshkosh Daily Northwestern ~ Oshkosh, Wisconsin ~ May 27, 1967


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 27, 2015)

P.S. Because whoever wrote that article seemed to know specifically what was written on the placards, I have reason to believe that either he or his source must have known what they were talking about. Hence, I feel the Bib-Label placards probably existed and that examples of them might still be around today.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 28, 2015)

Notice in this cropped portion of the 1967 article where it describes the Bib Label placards as being black-and-white. Also notice where it says ...  *                                        "The placards featured the benefits of the product in **                                        counteracting **gastric acidity and other internal complaints."* I'm not sure when the attached 7up placard was made, but because it uses "Lithiated Lemon Soda" it probably dates prior to about 1936 which is about the time they dropped the term "Lithiated" and shortened it to just 7up. I'm thinking this placard might be a close cousin to the Bib Label placards mentioned in the newspaper article, but was a second generation example after they stopped using the name Bib Label. Notice the placard has a hole in the top for hanging.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 28, 2015)

Check this out - currently on eBay for $1,299.99 http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-1930s-ART-DECO-NUDE-7-UP-TIN-LITHO-SODA-ADVERTISING-SIGN-PIN-UP-ANTIQUE-/201369770932?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2ee292dbb4


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 28, 2015)

By the way, the eBay sign measures 20" x 10" and is smaller than I previously thought


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## iggyworf (Jun 28, 2015)

Good work Bob. I always kinda thought 'bib label' had something to do with those bottle toppers.That sign is awesome. Would love to have it.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 29, 2015)

I want to focus for a moment on these lines from the "Lithiated Lemon & Limes Soda" bottle cap I posted earlier where it says ...                          "This was the first 7up crown and used while the 7up trademark was pending."

      "Within the Howdy Corporation the product was also referred to as Bib Label Lithiated Lemon & Lime Soda."                                  With particular emphasis where it says "*Within the Howdy Corporation*" Maybe, just maybe, when the product was first distributed it wasn't called "Bib Label" at all. Maybe "Bib Label" was a sort of nickname within the company and its actual market name was "Lithiated Lemon & Limes Soda" If, as the person says in this reference, this cap was the first 7up crown used while the 7up trademark was pending, then why doesn't it have the words "Bib Label" on it?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 29, 2015)

Notice in these two 7up trademark documents ...                                         1.  There is no mention of "Bib Label"                                        2.  Both say "Continuously used since *August 7, 1928*"             Note:  August 7, 1928 is the earliest date I am aware of for anything even remotely related to 7up                                                  [ Images courtesy of member Morbious_fod ]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 29, 2015)

The August 7, 1928 date gives reason for me ask ... If, as most references claim, 7up was first introduced two weeks prior to the stock market crash in October of 1929, then how do we account for the official documentation regarding the August 7, 1928 date? The documentation even says the name was used on labels, etc; which leads me to believe there was an actual product being produced at that time. Now I'm wondering if that 1928 product was "Bib-Label Lithiated Lemon Lime Soda" or "7up"  ?


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 29, 2015)

P.S. I'm beginning to think the person who wrote the information about the "Lithiated Lemon & Limes Soda" bottle cap knew what they were talking about and wasn't just speculating when they said ... *                  "This was the first 7up crown and used while the 7up trademark was pending."*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Jun 29, 2015)

Especially if the bottle cap does in fact have "*Howdy Corporation*" on it!


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## Canadacan (Jun 29, 2015)

I guess what I glean from all of this is exactly what you suggest Bob , is that is was more of a nick name, especially when you look at the patent documents. I don't think Bib label had anything to with bottle hangers or toppers.  Was 'bib' just a quirky term for label? ...I was looking at that site where it stated: "_(the 'bib' referred to the practice of labeling bottled goods with paper 'bibs', which made for both economy and efficiency in using the same bottles over a line of various products)_. I really think that bib simply means label ....IMHO..... maybe I read to much into the word labeling ,but I seem to attach it to the idea of a fixed label and not something that was hung on a bottle. Interesting topic though...things that make you go hmmmm???[]


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