# "Mystery" item identification contest!



## Plumbata (Sep 27, 2012)

Hey there y'all.

 Earlier this year I happened across a listing of excavated artifacts from eastern Europe, and in it was the same kind of awesome artifact pictured below. Unfortunately, I forgot to bid and it went for less than 10 bucks. A week or 2 later the same seller listed another lot with this artifact, essentially the same in form and style, and figured I had better place a bid. Paid like 11 bucks shipped and was extremely happy. It was not identified in the listing, and I had never seen any such artifacts for sale on eBay before or since.

 I had remembered seeing an illustration and description of such interesting items in a book or online a good while ago, but for the life of me can't find it again.












 The Contest:

 Post what you think the item is and how it was used/mounted, and the members with more-or-less correct guesses will be added to a "hat" and the winner drawn. The winner has the choice of receiving an assortment of artifacts (roman fibula, medieval iron arrowhead, etc.), or a 10.00 donation to the forum in the winner's name.

 Contest ends Friday October 5th at Midnight, forum time.

 Good luck! []


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## Dugout (Sep 27, 2012)

I say a decoration which adorns a type of head gear....  (fat chance)


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## RICKJJ59W (Sep 27, 2012)

I think its a meat tenderizer []


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## bucky902 (Sep 27, 2012)

I think it might be a old skinning tools


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## epackage (Sep 27, 2012)

Ice breaker for a slate roof


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## mr.fred (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm with Jim on this 1.[8|]


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## Plumbata (Sep 27, 2012)

Hehe, great suggestions so far people but none are on-target. []

 I'll help out a bit by saying that the item is "medieval", generally speaking, probably from between the 500s and the 1300s, and that it was a useful item, not a decorative item. Excavated in Bulgaria or more generally the Balkans; where so many great cheap artifacts are dug/looted by uneducated detectorists, purchased in bulk by the antiquities mafia, then exported illicitly to dealers in the USA (who all have eastern European names...) and sold individually to us American collectors.

 Multiple guesses are allowed so rain them down on me! [8D]


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## mr.fred (Sep 27, 2012)

Used in fighting???


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## RICKJJ59W (Sep 27, 2012)

A nut cracker


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## RICKJJ59W (Sep 27, 2012)

Some kind of piece to a gear type of machine


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## cyberdigger (Sep 27, 2012)

A hide scraper?


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

A cast iron mini relic of a crossbow![)]


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## Steve/sewell (Sep 27, 2012)

Tranchet used by a shoe maker.

 Or it is the same type of tool different name.

 Srtryk ur UppgrÃ¤vt Scandinavian shoe cobbler


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

Or a mini saw blade!


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

A type of axe? Do we have limited guesses cause ima gonna make alot of em


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

Ninja throwing blade?


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

Medieval tool?


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## RICKJJ59W (Sep 27, 2012)

It might be from a Roman Rooster  ---never know


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

.....................................................AHA.........................................................
 Medieval cookware?


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

Medieval Weapon?


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

Medieval Pick axe?


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

Fanning tool?  Ima out of guesses[][][]


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## Bottles r LEET (Sep 27, 2012)

I know! It's a tool.


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

ha i already guessed that[]


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## 2find4me (Sep 27, 2012)

Oh a horse spur!


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## cyberdigger (Sep 27, 2012)

Postage stamp perforating device?


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## RICKJJ59W (Sep 27, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> Postage stamp perforating device?


 
 Postage in the Roman days?  lol They might of had a time machine my bad[8D]


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## cyberdigger (Sep 27, 2012)

The Romans had stamps for sure.. heck, the Flintstones had stamps! [8D]


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## myersdiggers1998 (Sep 27, 2012)

a press gear, or grinding gear for wine or grain.


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## luckiest (Sep 27, 2012)

I think it's a spur too.


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## Dugout (Sep 27, 2012)

For disemboweling


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## MIdigger (Sep 27, 2012)

Early leather work tool?


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## glass man (Sep 28, 2012)

A little anchor fer the little people in Gulliver travels!Now what do I win?JAMIE


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## epackage (Sep 28, 2012)

Firestarter...


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## surfaceone (Sep 28, 2012)

Hey Stephen,

 Thanks for presenting us with this nifty mystery. I've had the opportunity to look at a great many medieval objects that were not this thing. Not a palstave, darnit.




> ORIGINAL:  MIdigger
> 
> Early leather work tool?


 
 Rich may be on to something.




From.


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## surfaceone (Sep 28, 2012)

"British leatherworking tools. Knives from Cairnholly, Cleughhead, Luce Sands, Traprain Law and Camelon. 7500BC-900AD. At least the dates are fairly obvious on this set, even if it does cover nearly 8000 years. The shoe is from Newstead."  From.






 "A small but significant assemblage of leather-working artefacts have been recovered from the excavations all of which appear to relate to a single workshop area. An iron "lunellum" or crescentic leather-working knife was recovered as well as three pumice rubbers..." From.




From.


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## RICKJJ59W (Sep 28, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Dugout
> 
> For disemboweling


 

 I like the way you think lol []


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## Plumbata (Sep 28, 2012)

Honestly, the leatherworking/cobbler tool guesses are great ones; I've seen tools for pressing design motifs that look rather similar to the artifact in question but alas, it is no such thing. Thanks for the visual lesson Surf, nifty info on shoe-making.

 It is not a weapon, and was not used for disemboweling or preparing food. Yes, it is a tool. [8D] 

 So far at least 1 person has gotten it right.


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## Plumbata (Sep 28, 2012)

Also, if it helps with your brainstorming, I should mention that I have not included a few other photographs of the item because they would give away the purpose too easily... They will be posted at the conclusion of the contest, though.


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 28, 2012)

Ok, I'll go out on a roof and say something to do with thatching?


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## 2find4me (Sep 28, 2012)

Was I duh persons that got it right?!?[]  (Say yes!)


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## surfaceone (Sep 28, 2012)

> So far at least 1 person has gotten it right.


 
 So, Plumby,

 Are we talking dual use technology now?







 "Forged and wrought iron tool of unknown date. The tool is likely to be a small wood-working flat adze or a large flat chisel. It is most likely to date from either the Roman period (100-450 AD) or the medieval periods (1200-1500). The tool is an irregular shape in plan with a large semi-circular â€“ crescent shaped cutting blade which tapers into slender sub-triangular tang with straight sides. The tang terminates in a rounded butt. In profile the tool is triangular and in cross section it is an irregular D shape." From.

 Adze or bark scraper?




From.


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## cyberdigger (Sep 28, 2012)

I think Jamie got it right.. makes sense someone found it cause the top broke off and it fell to the bottom of someone's bath tub..


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## Dugout (Sep 30, 2012)

for chopping food


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## Asterx (Sep 30, 2012)

medieval torture tool


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 1, 2012)

Ok come on now what the H#$%^hell is it


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 1, 2012)

Be patient Rick, there's just a few days left.
 Really though it so obvious that even I know what it is, I just don't want tell the whole story.

 Well I will I guess, if your twisting my arm.

 It's a multi tool kinda thing used in cock fight's. I probably can't say cock so I'll spell it crock.

 Anyway, it's the rooster head dress that serves as a disemboweling tool and also tenderizes the meat while later skins the opponent for use as leather. Then it marks the skin for hole punches. It does way more but that's another story.

 That or a curry comb. [][]


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## UncleBruce (Oct 1, 2012)

Is it part of an adjusting lever mechanism.  Such as for a braking mechanism or adjusting the height of an implement.


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## Plumbata (Oct 1, 2012)

Nope, it is not a dual-use tool. It isn't a weapon/torture device, scraper, gear/part of mechanism, leather, or food preparation tool.



> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> Anyway, it's the rooster head dress that serves as a disemboweling tool and also tenderizes the meat while later skins the opponent for use as leather. Then it marks the skin for hole punches. It does way more but that's another story.


 
 Haha! Funny guess Eric [] 

 It seems that I made things a bit too difficult, so it would be proper to include another image:







 Feel free to keep guessing y'all. No limit to the number you can submit as long as they are thoughtful guesses.


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## twowheelfan (Oct 1, 2012)

from the new image i have deduced that it is a type of saw.
 the teeth are slightly askew much like sawblades today, but i do not know how old that tech actually is. so thats my guess.


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## bobble (Oct 1, 2012)

SOME SORT OF GEAR ?I REALLY HOPE IT'S A ZOMBIE ROOSTER COMB.


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## Asterx (Oct 1, 2012)

I second the curry comb


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 1, 2012)

I got it! its a 3 eyed one jawed  beast from the planet  Whatdafurgizit  many Galaxy's  away.


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## JOETHECROW (Oct 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL: 2find4me
> 
> Ninja throwing blade?


 

 Could it be??? [8|]


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## nydigger (Oct 2, 2012)

looks like it may be some sort of wood working tool....for fine details or designs


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

> Is it part of an adjusting lever mechanism. Such as for a braking mechanism or adjusting the height of an implement.


That makes the most sense but not nearly as fun. It's kind or a limited motion rack and pinion and is still used on things like drill presses today and simple enough to be of ancient origin.
 I'm not sure what it's called though. I may have to look that up.


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 2, 2012)

Interesting watching all the serious guesses. 
 When I used to dig civil war relics we would often find items that we couldnt ID. Sometimes it would take a year or two to figure them out especially if they were only part of an item. And these American items were only 150 years old. Items from a much earlier and different culture can be really difficult. Part of the fun of archaeology I guess.

 I have no idea what the item in question is. It looks like it could maybe be used as a flint striker but I have never seen a serrated one. I'm assuming the last photo you posted was a clue and you were holding the item as it would be used.


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## PASodas (Oct 2, 2012)

Chisel for shaping stone?


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 2, 2012)

I thought about a chisel for stone/marble but the ends are too thin and fragile. They would quickly bend and break off hitting stone.
 Maybe a chisel for something else ... like cheese[]


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

Some other uses for as Bruce and others suggested.
 Railroad track switches and dam gate lifters. 
 The water wheel is definitely and ancient technology but those would be a bit heavier duty.


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 2, 2012)

I know it had some kind of wood handle. I still say a leather working tool


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## THOMAS1967 (Oct 2, 2012)

A navigational tool, similar to a Sextant used on a ship.


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## THOMAS1967 (Oct 2, 2012)

A watch.A tool for telling where the sun is on the horizon.


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## Dugout (Oct 2, 2012)

Winter is coming, I'll guess an ice scraper.


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

Lol Rick! []



> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> Items from a much earlier and different culture can be really difficult. Part of the fun of archaeology I guess.
> 
> I'm assuming the last photo you posted was a clue and you were holding the item as it would be used.


 
 Yes it can be difficult. Probably would have scratched my head and moved on if I hadn't seen essentially identical pieces illustrated and identified somewhere a number of years ago.

 I really like collecting hand forged iron tools and weapons; I can't objectively qualify it here but ever since my dad first explained and showed me examples of hand forged tools I have absorbed and studied the methods of manufacture and the signs indicating true age versus more modern creation. Also signs indicating the piece was in a fire; which in truly ancient iron items could indicate the piece was a sacrificial or grave offering. The Celts liked to make fine weapons and then bend them and burn them; thus "sacrificing" them to their gods (or dead chieftains or whatever). It is far more difficult to fake iron artifacts than bronze (for one thing, the steel/iron stock available now is too uniform in quality), and considering the time investment required would not be profitable. I did get burned once after buying a very peculiar barbed spearhead from Germany, probably around 8 years ago. Once it arrived, irregularities in the patina were observed so I scraped off the "patina" and discovered shiny welded junctures.  The thing was constructed from 4 separate items (socket, shaft, and the 2 barbs); all old but it was a fantasy piece.  Besides that I've encountered no problems.

 As an aside, this year there has been a huge surge in detectorist activity in Latvia, where a good number of people are digging up viking settlements and graves and selling on the bay. The prices are real low due to the heavy supply so cool 1,000 year old artifacts can be had cheap. They are even digging and selling fragments of rope,  textiles decorated with bronze elements, and brooches which I really need to get some examples of. My gal is in grad school and teaches a class about the chemical and technical aspects of textiles, and although not a collector she wants to get some examples of the fibers and different textile weaves.  That would be some super sweet stuff to show to students.

*Anyway...*

 The last photo is the most valuable clue, but don't read into the way I was holding it too deeply. Just the easiest way to get that perspective in decent focus on the camera. 

 It isn't anything high tech, and aside from having a wood handle like a hammer it is the complete item in and of itself.


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## Headhunter2 (Oct 2, 2012)

Branding Iron?


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> I still say a leather working tool


 
 Rick, I already told y'all that it isn't for leather-working, lol. []


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## epackage (Oct 2, 2012)

This is slowly killing me, I've tried so many different research avenues and all have been dead ends, I will not be deterred however...


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> I've tried so many different research avenues and all have been dead ends, I will not be deterred however...


 
 Hehe, yeah man same here, and that's with plugging in many variations of the proper search terms! It must have been in one of my many books where I saw the images and description, because internet searching has been fruitless thus far.


 No need to over-think this thing. Really quite simple, and although quite early and crude, their modern counterparts are still widely used.


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 2, 2012)

I think I'm going to have to go with Cheese Chisel, I know its wrong but I like the name.


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

[8D]

 My bro brought back from Amsterdam for me a hunk of 4+ year old cheese; quite tasty and definitely old due to the noticeable lactic acid crystals which ya really don't get in young cheese.

 It was also hard as hell. It totally bent the paring knife I was using to cut it with, so in that case a cheese chisel would have served quite well. []


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> I think I'm going to have to go with Cheese Chisel, I know its wrong but I like the name.


 [][]... Wait, your onto to something. Cheese was one of the foods that preserved and kept for a long time and fed many an army.
 It would shred cheese very well and you got to have your pizza after a hard day of killing, plunder and pillaging. []
 HEY, that's not funny!


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## bubbas dad (Oct 2, 2012)

meat tenderizer?


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 2, 2012)

I have a few outside guesses from AOL friends ----

 1. Easy.  It's a small hand pick for cracking dinosaur eggs.  No need to thank me.

 2. its an old gear to a cookoo clock.

 3.(Karen Knapstein) from Antique Trader
   My first guess is it's some kind of scraper that once had a wood handle.

 4. (Mike Polak)
  Itâ€™s a mini Aztec weapon similar to those sharp stars that all of the Chinese Kung-Fu guys throw at their enemy in the movies.  Ha.  And, you thought you were the only one with an imagination.   Seriously, If it wasnâ€™t metal, I would say it was the top for a 1920â€™2-1930â€™s fancy perfume bottle.  Iâ€™ve seen these exact type of designs, even found a few while digging, for perfume bottles but they are all glass and often purple.  Iâ€™ve never seen a metal stopper.   My other guess is that it might have been some type of kitchen tool for chopping or tenderizing different types of meat or vegetables.   Thatâ€™s the best I can come up with.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

> 4. (Mike Polak)
> Itâ€™s a mini Aztec weapon similar to those sharp stars that all of the Chinese Kung-Fu guys throw at their enemy in the movies


Ninja star was guessed and dismissed already but it's interesting to know the Aztecs originally were from or migrated to Romania. 
 The more you know.. []


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

Haha, you guys are is fun! [] 

 OK, let me sum up the hints:

 - Not a weapon or torture device (or component thereof) and nothing that would inflict pain on man or beast (when used as intended anyway)
 - Not involved with preparing tenderizing or processing food, or any typical kitchen activities
 - Not a scraper or flint striker
 - Not a 3 eyed one jawed beast from the planet Whatdafurgizit []
 - Not used for leather or hide scraping, cutting or processing
 - Not a gear or component of a more complicated device or machine (such as navigation tools)
 - Not a chisel; for stone, cheese, or anything else

 - It is a hand-tool, generally speaking.
 - It had a wooden handle, oriented like that of a hammer, and no other parts. 
 - It is Medieval, if not ancient.
 - It is from the ancient lands of Eastern Europe.
 - Similar things are still used today in various places.
 - At least 1 person has gotten it right already.

 Rick, funny stuff from your AOL friends! None are on the ball, though Dino egg cracker should be. []


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey Plumb, this is way more fun than the one, two, three though whatever word game. Can you extent it until next year?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 2, 2012)

OK I'm gonna go with pruning saw.. this is quite a fun contest Plummy! []


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

Agreed Eric, I didn't anticipate it being this entertaining and thought provoking! I can practically hear the gears in all of your heads collectively spinning and grinding away at the mystery [].  

 And no, I don't think keeping it going 3 more months would make the task of sorting guesses any easier, but I have plenty of other "Mystery" items that I can start new contests for later on. I mean, I can extend it a little bit if people want, we'll see. "Guess a number" contests seem like typical fare but never interested me much, so I had thought about doing something different like this for a while but didn't know if it would be fun or well received. Wouldn't have bothered doing it, but the stars of convenient situational circumstance aligned themselves just right and pictures were taken. 

 Turned out to be quite fun and engaging. Really should pull out some more "stumpers" from the collection and get your mental gears turning like this every few months. [8D]


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

> I mean, I can extend it a little bit if people want, we'll see.


No, better not extend it now that I read back. It's showing from some of the comments to be potentially life threatening as it is. I think it was Jim that said it was killing him. Maybe you should end the madness now, your call.[]


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## epackage (Oct 2, 2012)

I believe the answer is easy to ascertain when one rereads the whole thread and does the proper subtraction...[]


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Plumbata
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Im gettin old come on now give me a break. Is is a tool that you might use to scrape tanned leather?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 2, 2012)

I sent an email to my friend Lothar, of the Hill People.. if anyone knows, he will..


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> Hey Plumb, this is way more fun than the one, two, three though whatever word game. Can you extent it until next year?


 
 I say we all take turns with some "mystery object"  new or old


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 2, 2012)

I got it----Its a back massager  []

 Let me guess someone said that lol


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

While my mind was wondering I made a post somewhere else. Stephen may have given a hint? 


> Eric - Indeed it is, but the indentations would need to be of uniform size/depth for it to work well. Good thinking though.


I'm not sure that with the curve of an arch that would be true though. With a round gear, yes.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I have a couple mystery items I could offer up for a contest like this, which was admittedly orchestrated with brilliance.. the problem is, I don't know what these things are what I have.. [8|]


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

> I have a couple mystery items I could offer up for a contest like this, which was admittedly orchestrated with brilliance.. the problem is, I don't know what these things are what I have.


That can be a problem but not an end. Offer something or nothing up to the best plausible answer. 
 I had a whatsit that sat for years until the ABN vault got accessed by someone with the answer. Maybe if I made it a contest I would have known a lot sooner and it have been a lot more fun.
 Win, lose or draw, I just love the game.


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 2, 2012)

> the problem is, I don't know what these things are what I have..


 
 that's perfect, you cant cheat and you can play too[]


 It seems to me the answer must be moving towards the ice scaper guess since most other previous guesses were ruled out.
 I just dont know why they would need ice scrapers since ox carts didnt have windshields.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 2, 2012)

[sm=lol.gif] funny gunny! And true...


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Plumbata
> 
> Haha, you guys are is fun! []
> 
> ...


I guess the cock fight thing is out then, darn, I thought I nailed it there. OK, I'm back to thatching roofs or combing horses, maybe sheep. I better not leave out ox, goats or any other domesticated animal of the time just in case.
 THIS IS JUST SO MUCH FUN!!!!


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 2, 2012)

I got it!----> it is a piece of a egg beater batter mixer gear.


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 2, 2012)

*


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> Im gettin old come on now give me a break. Is is a tool that you might use to scrape tanned leather?


 
 ROFL! [][] Might just have to give it to you ya crusty ole' dog! []


 I do like the idea of other people bringing out their esoteric mystery items, but as Charlie says...




> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> ...the problem is, I don't know what these things are that I have.. [8|]


 
 []

 Anyway, I spent a little time just now making a handle out of a seasoned branch I had. Doubt people then had access to lathe-turned handles, and the crude item looks quite at home in the crude handle. This is generally how the item would have been hafted.

 Pardon the crap photo. I am an antique collector, not Ansel Adams. [8D]


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## cyberdigger (Oct 2, 2012)

Hey it's starting to look more like the tree branch pruner I already guessed.. ! [sm=rolleyes.gif]


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 2, 2012)

> Doubt people then had access to lathe-turned handles,


As a gear piece of a lathe that would be perfect for back then to move the blade forward and backward. All you need is an ox on a big hamster type wheel to power the spinning motion, totally plausible.


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

lol, yes I guess a branch was pruned in the making of this item, but branch pruners have pretty much always been concave, from the neolithic to present day, not convex like 'dis here.


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

Hah, man you really love gears don't ya Eric. [8D]

 I guess by lathe turned handle I was referring to the more complicated ones which produce items of a non-circular cross section (like modern tool handles, gun stocks, etc). I would love to see an ancient roman lathe shop, or that brilliant water powered mill facility at Barbegal in France:


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 2, 2012)

Well I guessed the shoe cobbler tool and you ruled it out earlier by saying it was a good guess but off the mark soooooooooooooooo.................Is it an ancient tile adhesive applicator ? Its grooved just right[8D]


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## Plumbata (Oct 2, 2012)

Haha Steve, I can see my eBay listing now...


 "*Excruciatingly Rare Imperial Roman Mosaic Floor Tile Adhesive Applicator - *only 2 known**"

 []

 Unfortunately it is not so. Feel free to continue guessing though! []


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 3, 2012)

12th Century Telescoping tree pruner ?


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 3, 2012)

Is it a Sickle for trimming tall grass ? Your new name Stephen  WINK PLUMBATA its the hair.................................[8D]


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 3, 2012)

I'm on a roll and been wrong every time. 
 I'll be a convert and go against my gear theory. I think I may be bugging you. []
 I'll go with the saw thing but apply it specifically to harvesting olives. They were an important resource.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 3, 2012)

!


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 3, 2012)

Its A tool to Club animals in leg traps.


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## THOMAS1967 (Oct 3, 2012)

Axe


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 3, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> !


 Hey that is my 12th century telescoping tree trimmer! !!! [8D] Eric


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## Dugout (Oct 3, 2012)

Okay I have another thought.......To behead poultry when butchering.


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## Dugout (Oct 3, 2012)

And another thought............to peel the bark from trees in order to use the the center as they do for posts or other items.


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 3, 2012)

the mystery thread is starting to drift back, 6 pages  back for that matter. I say tell us what the hell it is []


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## epackage (Oct 3, 2012)

[]


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 4, 2012)

7 pages back lets go lets go!  what is the dam thing []


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry Steve, I missed that. It was just pic I saw. The painting itself would most likely have been a comb type claw thingy not well shown in the painting. The pruning of trees and sucker removal has probably been known for thousands of years to increase production and improve quality of a harvest.
 I just applied to olives because of their importance. It could be used to whack the olives down too. []
 If we're correct, in a 2, 3, 4, + member tie, well maybe Plumby has a cutoff wheel to split up the prizes. [][][]


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## Dugout (Oct 4, 2012)

He said that the more or less correct guesses would be put into a hat and a winner drawn.


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## Headhunter2 (Oct 4, 2012)

It's a key to a chastity belt! I WIN! I WIN!


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 4, 2012)

Didn't the Predator use that in the movie? He could have took it from someone in the med-evil times []


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 4, 2012)

The worst thing about this contest is I may have to wait 'til Monday for the answer. It's Heckler field and Keene show weekend. []


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## cyberdigger (Oct 4, 2012)

It looks like it would come in handy at the salt mine..


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 4, 2012)

Salt, good one Chuck. Sure is something there and a good tool for mining and crushing it!! Way to think!! That is yours and yours alone and I like it!!!


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## epackage (Oct 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> It looks like it would come in handy at the salt mine..


 A good guess but not what it is...[]


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The GREAT AND POWERFULL E knows ALLL

 []


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## epackage (Oct 4, 2012)

[]


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## Dugout (Oct 4, 2012)

Yeah and he loves digging it in and twisting the blade  [][].


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## surfaceone (Oct 5, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Plumbata


 
 Hey Stephen,

 Thanks for the mystery item. I must admit I've spent way too much time trying to search up an electronic explanation with attached color glossies. 

 It was with some delight, after reading back to the jump, that *The Solving* is tonight. ADT, man!


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## 2find4me (Oct 5, 2012)

I'll give yall a hint i thinks it starts with an "H".


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 6, 2012)

I guess I'll have to wait until I get home from Hecklers. 
 This is killing me Professor Plumb. I'm gonna be a wreck all day thinking about. []


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 6, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> I guess I'll have to wait until I get home from Hecklers.
> This is killing me Professor Plumb. I'm gonna be a wreck all day thinking about.Â []


 
 He is doing it on purpose now. We are going to have to light the torches and bring him in!


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 6, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> I guess I'll have to wait until I get home from Hecklers.
> This is killing me Professor Plumb. I'm gonna be a wreck all day thinking about.Â []


 

 OMG you got it!  its a "Heckler"  thats an H  wow  [8|]


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 6, 2012)

[8D]


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## Dugout (Oct 6, 2012)

I am sure he is just doing the math.


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## bucky902 (Oct 6, 2012)

> I guess I'll have to wait until I get home from Hecklers.


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## 2find4me (Oct 6, 2012)

professor plumb, the deadline is up, now to reveal what is really is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## cyberdigger (Oct 6, 2012)

Maybe he doesn't know what it is?


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 6, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> Maybe he doesn't know what it is?


 

 lol 

 I have one for ya but i;ll wait until plum settles up


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 6, 2012)

> Maybe he doesn't know what it is?


I left this morning, as I said, a total wreck. I nearly crashed my car...twice. I sold everything for next to nothing because I couldn't get my mind off it!! I was befuddled!
 I get back to this, no answer!!!


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## Dugout (Oct 6, 2012)

Have patience. I am sure there is a reasonable reason he hasn't checked in.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 6, 2012)

Of coarse there is... we tease, that's what we do.[]


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## cyberdigger (Oct 6, 2012)

I'm beginning to worry about Plummy.. hope he's OK...


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 6, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I'm beginning to worry about Plummy.. hope he's OK...


 
 oh come on now gezzzzzzz

 "I wonder if people say "omg rick hasn't been on for 2 days I hope hes ok"[8|]


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 6, 2012)

Let me tell you what he is doing. He is staying off ABN to make the people who "need to know" what that thing in the worst way nuts! He is probably fighting the urge to come on but he is doing it and laughing!  Thats what I think.


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## Plumbata (Oct 6, 2012)

Hey there people, sorry for the wait! 

 I was busy doing business taxes. And don'tcha know it, the excel file I was working on for 15 or more hours got corrupted. So that was/is kinda a priority for me presently. That or downing a 12 pack because "frustrated" really doesn't do justice to how I feel right now []. 

 Anyway, the item in question is a *Wood Saw!* []

 TwoWheelFan hit the nail on the head with this guess:



> ORIGINAL:  twowheelfan
> 
> from the new image i have deduced that it is a type of saw.
> the teeth are slightly askew much like sawblades today, but i do not know how old that tech actually is. so thats my guess.


 
 I was worried that such an excellent explanation would give it away, but I suppose the item is so different from modern saws in construction that it struck many of you as highly unlikely.

 If you look at the image of the teeth, you can see that each one is oriented opposite to the orientation of the teeth in front and behind. It may be crude and not very useful by modern standards, but they were aware of the virtues derived from using saws with set teeth for quite some time. Don't ask me specifically how they did it back then though. []

 I will provide a better explanation and pictures along with a list of the people who submitted acceptable guesses soon, but my immediate focus lies elsewhere this evening.


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 6, 2012)

All of those guess and its a wood saw? when did the guy guess it? how far back?


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 6, 2012)

I got one. I don't know for sure what it is but I have an idea.


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## bucky902 (Oct 7, 2012)

I sure this has to be it

 reenactors leatherworkers lunette 4" roman anglo saxon viking medieval period

 this is the one in picture -a hand forged leatherworkers lunette based on the find from the occupation site at flixborough (anglo-saxon 600-1000AD), made in sheffield england by daegrad tools


 http://daegrad.co.uk/page24.php?view=productListPage&isChanged=0&searchString=&searchCategory=allCategories&postPage=14


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## cyberdigger (Oct 7, 2012)

Wood saw.. well, that explains the deforestation of the Balkans.. []


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## andy volkerts (Oct 7, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> I got one. I don't know for sure what it is but I have an idea.


 A blade for fred flintstones table saw!![]


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## Dugout (Oct 7, 2012)

Well I was at least right when I said he was doing the  "math".


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 7, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkerts
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 I can see no one takes me seriously [8D] No really it is a real item.


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## epackage (Oct 7, 2012)

Casino Chip from the Flinstones in Viva Rock Vegas?


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## cyberdigger (Oct 7, 2012)

Doesn't the Flintstones' doctor wear one of these on his forehead?


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 7, 2012)

LOL Im serious it is a working item. A part is missing but it was used. Its not as old as Fred but its old.


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 10, 2012)

Stephen Whats the latest? Drawing,finalists,did we all drink the fizzy lifting drinks?  (You have to know Willie Wonka to know the meaning of fizzy lifting drinks)  Take your time but hurry up,[8D]and keep us posted please.


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## cyberdigger (Oct 10, 2012)

I bet the IRS confiscated his hardware.. []


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## Steve/sewell (Oct 10, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I bet the IRS confiscated his hardware.. []


 I hope not!!!!


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## Dugout (Oct 10, 2012)

Give us a hint. What is the missing part?


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## twowheelfan (Oct 11, 2012)

yay! was i the only one who got it right? thanks for the stumper! that was fun!


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## andy volkerts (Oct 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RICKJJ59W
> 
> I got one. I don't know for sure what it is but I have an idea.


 Wheel for a Flintstones pizza cutter[][]


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## Dugout (Oct 11, 2012)

Is it a button?


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## Dugout (Oct 11, 2012)

Is it a drawer knob?


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 11, 2012)

looks like roofing slate.


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## twowheelfan (Oct 11, 2012)

it looks like slate, so not really hard enough to cut, prone to chip and become inaccurate, so not a marker, the center hole is not an axle hole because there is no visible wear, doesn't rotate in its use. i think its a post cap to keep water from penetrating the end grain of a decorative post.


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## Dugout (Oct 11, 2012)

(this blue page post is quite decorative!)  []


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## twowheelfan (Oct 11, 2012)

good one!


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## Dugout (Oct 11, 2012)

I have a mystery item to share after this one is solved.


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## Plumbata (Oct 14, 2012)

Alrighty! Sorry for the long delay people, but I didn't forget about this contest!

 Here for your viewing pleasure is a jumble of pictures of the saw:






















 Here it is hafted. I'm pretty sure that the saw blade would have been a bit more deeply inserted into the original handle, perhaps even with the projecting "wings" touching the handle, but whatever.

















 As I understand it, it would have been used for light woodworking. Imagine a fletcher cutting arrow or spear shafts down to size, or a bookbinder trimming wooden panels to match the illuminated manuscripts to be protected. For simple joinery it would have been rather serviceable too. Crescent saws from a later era were used in shipbuilding, or for cutting holes within a board (not possible with a straight saw). Could have been the case here. I have no proof that it wasn't used for cutting designs, creating grooves for inlays, or for pruning trees, so such guesses are accepted. As far as I understand, tree or vine pruning was accomplished with a curved hook blade, kinda like a sling blade or kaiser axe in form, but the sizes ranged significantly. A clean cut is far less likely to get infected/attacked by insects and far easier for a plant to heal from versus a rough cut with a saw.  Regardless, such guesses are acceptable.

 You all have to keep in mind that in an era when decent steel was unknown or unavailable, let alone spring steel, the people then had to make do with the materials available. Tempered iron was about the best option they had. Even though it seems rather pitiful and ineffective compared to modern saws, it still offered a degree of precision and uniformity of cut not easily possible with axes or chisels. Wielded by a skilled hand the results may have been quite impressive. Back then, true skill and experience probably made up for the rudimentary nature of the implements available then., Any talentless hack can pick up a modern saw and cut something decently well, but the same tool in the hands of a dedicated craftsman might as well be a scalpel in the hands of a brain surgeon. It is a humble tool but may have made allowed some miserable Dark Age artisan to keep his family fed. It cost me barely more than 10 bucks; a cheap meal at a restaurant, but centuries ago it may have been the priceless piece which kept starvation and premature death at bay. God I love stuff like this. []

 The current contestants, and their guesses:



> ORIGINAL:  2find4me
> Or a mini saw blade!


 


> ORIGINAL:  twowheelfan
> from the new image i have deduced that it is a type of saw.
> the teeth are slightly askew much like sawblades today, but i do not know how old that tech actually is. so thats my guess.


 


> ORIGINAL:  nydigger
> looks like it may be some sort of wood working tool....for fine details or designs


 


> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> OK I'm gonna go with pruning saw.. this is quite a fun contest Plummy! []


 


> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> It reminds me of a saw blade with the teeth (sent via PM so as to not influence others)


 


> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 12th Century Telescoping tree pruner ?


 


> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> I'm on a roll and been wrong every time.
> I'll be a convert and go against my gear theory. I think I may be bugging you. []
> I'll go with the saw thing but apply it specifically to harvesting olives. They were an important resource.


 
 As you can see, I was rather liberal in terms of what I deemed as qualifying guesses. Since i wasn't around when it was in active use it would be unfair to impose my personal bias upon the identification or possible past uses of the item. The acceptable guesses were close enough in my mind to qualify.

 Unless there are disagreements with my decisions, I will create 2 paper slips for each person and mix them together in a box. 2 slips because mechanically speaking it seems more fair to me. That way, everyone has a better chance at having their slip accessible to my blind fingers (rather than having their 1 slip stuck in a corner or something).

 The winner can choose between a parcel containing some medieval iron arrowheads and ancient roman bronze fibulas (brooches, but missing the pin) and anything else suitable I can find (no promises regarding the latter though), or 10.00 donated to the forum in the winner's name.


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## Plumbata (Oct 14, 2012)

And regarding Rick's item...



> ORIGINAL:  twowheelfan
> i think its a post cap to keep water from penetrating the end grain of a decorative post.


 
 Holy crap man, that is EXACTLY what I was thinking. You're good at this guessing business aren't ya? The nail hole in the center implies that the piece may have been affixed with the flat side up (not as effective at shedding water) but maybe they made the hole beforehand and flipped it around and then nailed it in place so the head would have been flush with the slate. Hard to say. Neat piece though.


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## twowheelfan (Oct 14, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Plumbata
> 
> And regarding Rick's item...
> 
> ...


 simple deductive reasoning. thanks! Rick, what do you think it is? if, i do have my name picked, please donate to the forum. i am fond of artifacts and would love to see images of the prizes offered, but it would i think , be best to have money go to this fine website instead. i hope my post influences the other contestants.


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 14, 2012)

That may be what it is and it may not be" but thats not "what I thought it was" the game has to be called--------what does sickrick think it is [] You have to dig deep to get it right  lol.[8D]


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## epackage (Oct 14, 2012)

I think that you think that it was the "Paperweight" used to keep whatever form of wiping medium that was found in the outhouse from blowing away, what do I win?!?!?[8D]


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## Sir.Bottles (Oct 14, 2012)

the tooth on the edge make me think it's part of an old large clock.


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## RICKJJ59W (Oct 14, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
> 
> I think that you think that it was the "Paperweight" used to keep whatever form of wiping medium that wasÂ found in the outhouse from blowing away, what do I win?!?!?[8D]


 
 You don't win Chit [8D]


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## twowheelfan (Oct 16, 2012)

So its a paperweight?


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