# A few questions for the bottle-nerds out there



## Slowmovangogh (Feb 9, 2022)

So I have a few questions I wanted to ask the community. I am still relatively new to the hobby and still learning. Soooooo.....
First, can someone explain the difference between an applied top and a tooled top?
Second, At what point did they start putting "Registered & This bottle not to be sold" on bottles and why?
And lastly, what is the correct name of the brighter blue color you see in turn of the century(ish) soda bottles? I've seen it as "cornflower blue" and also as "electric blue". Is one right, both right, both wrong?
I'm sure other questions will arise but that's it for now.

Thanks.


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## 102viadeluna (Feb 9, 2022)

Try this site, it will answer most of your questions above and many more that you might have!



			Historic Bottle Website - Homepage


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## hemihampton (Feb 9, 2022)

Most people will call a blue bottle Cobalt Blue. The really light blue ones are usually called Cornflower & the darker blue ones some will call electric blue but most call them Cobalt Blue. Just my opinion, others may vary?   Some Examples below. 


LEON.


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## webe992 (Feb 9, 2022)

So this is a crown top that isn’t your typical aqua. I generally refer to this color as “ice blue”.


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## willong (Feb 9, 2022)

Fishnemesis said:


> First, can someone explain the difference between an applied top and a tooled top?


A true "applied" top is exactly what it sounds like: after the gather was blown into the mold, the glassblower would shear the pipe away, apply a smaller gather--perhaps "dab" would better convey the size--of molted glass to the top of the still hot and plastic glass of the bottle neck, insert a lip forming tool into the pliable glass and rotate the tool to form and finish the shape.

The later improved method formed most of the lip within the mold itself and simply "tooled" the lip to produce a smooth surface.

Both methods obliterated some of the mold seam marks on the high neck to lip region of the bottle. The resultant smear marks are what differentiate antique bottles that were BIM (blown in mold) handmade from later machine made variants.

It is usually, but not always, easy to determine if a lip was actually applied. Aside from crude and "drippy" exterior appearance, one can often feel inside of the neck for a junction between the neck glass and that of the applied top.

Expanding upon another member's comment, probably the best single source of information your will ever find for educating yourself on antique bottle identification, and understanding the manufacturing methods and eras is: https://sha.org/bottle/

Specifically to lip finishes, see:  https://sha.org/bottle/finishes.htm#Diagnostic characteristics - applied & tooled finishes

Here's a photo example of a quite obvious applied lip from the site:


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## Len (Feb 9, 2022)

hemihampton said:


> Most people will call a blue bottle Cobalt Blue. The really light blue ones are usually called Cornflower & the darker blue ones some will call electric blue but most call them Cobalt Blue. Just my opinion, others may vary?   Some Examples below. View attachment 234722LEON.
> View attachment 234720View attachment 234721View attachment 234723


Hey hemihampton!   I can't think of a better lesson than your pics. You "blueaway" that one.  ...For the newer members, color + form will be ongoing areas of questioning with most bottles that you encounter. Their name labels (esp. w/color) may be contested from time to time by the individual examiner. ...One more thing. Some, if not the vast majority of us, may not necessarily warm to the term "bottle-nerd." I've found the people in this community are very cool individuals who share and care very specialized information and their own experiences. Also, they'll come to your aid with hands on help if requested. None of us ever charged consultant fees either. Hmmm. --Welcome grasshoppers.


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## willong (Feb 9, 2022)

Len said:


> Hey hemihampton!   I can't think of a better lesson than your pics. You "blueaway" that one.  ...For the newer members, color + form will be ongoing areas of questioning with most bottles that you encounter. Their name labels (esp. w/color) may be contested from time to time by the individual examiner. ...One more thing. Some, if not the vast majority of us, may not necessarily warm to the term "bottle-nerd." I've found the people in this community are very cool individuals who share and care very specialized information and their own experiences. Also, they'll come to your aid with hands on help if requested. None of us ever charged consultant fees either. Hmmm. --Welcome grasshoppers.


Unless one defines a color by the actual wavelength, or combination of wavelengths, of light producing it, we should expect all discussions of color to be subjective. Anyone who doubts this should simply look at all the creative names for artists' paints, pastels and the like.

I got a kick out of "Hmmm. --Welcome grasshoppers."  as I too was one who did not warm to "bottle-nerd."


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## hemihampton (Feb 11, 2022)

I've seen alot of 1915 Cokes some people will refer to as Ice Blue, These are really light blue. LEON.


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## Csa (Feb 12, 2022)

I know this doesn’t apply or map over directly to bottle colors, but this chart gives you an idea of all the diff color names and slight variations for insulators. Again totally subjective and another source may use diff names for colors but there we are…., there is also a good color name study using fruit jars, I’ll try to find the link.


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## Csa (Feb 12, 2022)

Found the link.


			Greg Spurgeon Antique Fruit Jars Color Guide
		

Here is their take on “blues” and Again this may not align directly with the terms the experts on this site use, but directionally should help.


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## Dogo (Feb 12, 2022)

Greg Spurgeon's color chart ought to be required reading for collectors.  One factor that is frequently overlooked is the type of light in the area. Sun light and Florescent light may change the appearance markedly, depending on the chemical makeup of the glass.  I have one piece that is light blue inside and violet outside. It is a small blown vase that I bought at Wheaton years ago. I carried it back into the shop three times before my brain accepted the fact that it really did look that different inside and out.


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## buriedtreasuretime (Feb 12, 2022)

Csa said:


> I know this doesn’t apply or map over directly to bottle colors, but this chart gives you an idea of all the diff color names and slight variations for insulators. Again totally subjective and another source may use diff names for colors but there we are…., there is also a good color name study using fruit jars, I’ll try to find the link.



I’m amazed to see so many colors, I had no idea that insulators were or could be so colorful.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Slowmovangogh (Feb 14, 2022)

No offense meant by the term "Bottle-nerd". I use it with admiration and hope to someday reach a point where I can call myself one. I do consider myself a "Camera-nerd" since I can talk endlessly about them but have not yet reached that point with bottles. All that aside, Thank you all for the clarification. The tooled vs applied as been bugging me for a while. The color education is appreciated as well. I think I was trying to define between Aqua and Ice blue. I knew the aquas have a tiny hint of green but I didn't know what the right name was for that bright, true blue that is too light to be considered cobalt.


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## K6TIM (Feb 16, 2022)

Fishnemesis said:


> So I have a few questions I wanted to ask the community. I am still relatively new to the hobby and still learning. Soooooo.....
> First, can someone explain the difference between an applied top and a tooled top?
> Second, At what point did they start putting "Registered & This bottle not to be sold" on bottles and why?
> And lastly, what is the correct name of the brighter blue color you see in turn of the century(ish) soda bottles? I've seen it as "cornflower blue" and also as "electric blue". Is one right, both right, both wrong?
> ...


Hi Fishnemsis,
I appled lip will have dripping below the edge of the bottom of the lip.A tooled lip you will find concentric ring below the lip of the bottle.The applied lip is the older used lips.-K6TIM


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## K6TIM (Feb 16, 2022)

buriedtreasuretime said:


> I’m amazed to see so many colors, I had no idea that insulators were or could be so colorful.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Bottles are found in several different colors.The blues are called colbalt blue since the metal oxide of colbalt make the glass turn blue in color.


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## Huntindog (Feb 16, 2022)

Well Fishnemsis,
Don't let them take my Kodachrome away....
The Info about lip finish and color has been spot on.
As to your question on "Registered and This bottle not to be sold"... 
I don't think anyone can put a specific date on them.
I have bottles in my collection from the early 1800's with both embossing's.
Good luck in your quest for knowledge.


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## Sodasandbeers (Feb 16, 2022)

Hi, about embossing on soda and beer bottles.  There are some general guidelines, but there are always exceptions.

Bottlers of beer and soda were dependent on their customers returning their bottles so they could be refilled.  The bottles were their property! And bottlers considered them stolen if not returned.  In its basic form the contents of the bottle were being sold, but the bottles were not and had to be returned. The earliest phrase that I have seen is used on these bottles declaring this is the embossing "This Bottle Is Never Sold" on a bottle dated 1845.  Later, laws were enacted that allowed bottlers to register their bottles with their state governments.  For some interesting information on this subject see the following article:

Registering Bottles

Generally this embossing appears on bottles made after 1878.  Other phrases include:

Thou Shall Not Steal
This bottle Stolen From
This Bottle Not To Be Sold
Bottle Never Sold
This Bottle Belongs To
This Bottle To Be Returned When Empty

The addition of "Registered," "generally" was used following a New York law enacted in 1889.  In fact there are many bottles embossed "Registered 1889."  There are exceptions of course with some late 1840 and 1850 bottles embossed "Registered According To Law," that hark back to the initial registration laws.

One other phrase that you did not ask about is the word "Contents" followed by some capacity.  This embossing is related to a 1912 Federal Law, but did not take affect until 1913 or 1914.  So bottles with this embossing "generally" date after 1913 or 1914.


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