# At least one state gets it....



## PrivyCheese (Jun 9, 2011)

Doing my best to stay away from anything political I give you this.....Florida will begin testing welfare applicants for drugs effective July 1st. 

   Its about time, now if only this policy would go national we would be doing something.  A lot of people must take drug test to qualify for jobs that pay for welfare. Why shouldnt people have to take a grug test to recieve it?


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## Jim (Jun 9, 2011)

Agree 100%, John. I don't mind my tax dollars going to help those who truly need and deserve it, but the doper idiots can support their own habits if they wish to waste their lives with that junk. If they don't like it...Boo-freaking-hoo, clean up and get a job.

 Many reforms are needed in the welfare system, and drug testing is a real good place to start.  ~Jim


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm in agreement but....


> the doper idiots can support their own habits if they wish to waste their lives with that junk.


 I worry about backlash also. It's unfortunately not that simple and that will get found out soon enough.
 Do robberies go up? Murders? Collateral damage? 
 More law enforcement to keep the crime down means higher taxing, right? Methadone and other programs have had a lot of success but programs should be improved simultaneously, not simultaneous cuts in the programs.
 Drugs won't go away and that's the real shame.


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## kwalker (Jun 9, 2011)

Gotta agree with this. I just don't understand how the government can overlook the misuse of welfare so easily sometimes. I understand that many families need it and use it as intended but there's so many others who take it and run...


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## RedGinger (Jun 9, 2011)

In honor of my friend, Lobey, I am going to say that is really stupid.  I can see the intent behind this with things like Crack or something.  So, you don't want the government to invade your privacy, or you do?  How about a drug test for gun owners.  Does that seem equal to you?  Some of those that require assistance would fail the test because they need medications.  And it is because of their health problems, that they need assistance.  Can't anyone find anything better to do?  

 With so much unemployment, headed for a depression, and "alcohol sales thriving", I'm sure this idea will work splendidly.  

 Now, I am going to go cry my eyes out, because Lobey is not here to fight on this one.


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## RedGinger (Jun 9, 2011)

Oh, and the working poor, who work till they drop, but still don't make enough to feed their families.  Do they not deserve any dignity to not have to pee in a cup?  They're not flying a plane with 200 passengers.  If there drugs were not illegal, there would not be the crime in Mexico and other cities that is killing so many people.  That's another topic, though.  I am all for drug education programs, and the stop of Meth, Crack, and things like that.  

 Where I came from, any public assistance programs are a last resort until someone is back on their feet.  They are a "hand up".  I suppose I am naive in thinking it is such an easy issue, that people just decide to be poor for personal gain.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 9, 2011)

All I can say is.. people collecting welfare instead of making their own way better have a mighty damn good excuse.


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## RedGinger (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah, Joe and I go back and forth on that all the time.  He has the same cynical view and a poster with a poem called "Work" on his wall.  I guess I am just a bleeding heart liberal.  Miss my sidekick.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 9, 2011)

I miss him too, Laur. He woulda prolly jumped all over this thread and made it interesting.. no, _fascinating _to the point of deletion.. [] 
 I'm perpetually broke, but I never got a govt handout and I'm proud of that. One time when I was around 20 years old, after quitting a really crappy job as a car salesman, I walked into the local employment agency. I was really desperate for dough, and kinda hoping they'd cut me a check then and there.. well, I ended up in a guys office, who was one two phones, one on each shoulder.. he looked up at me, hung up one phone, and asked me if I want to work.. I said yes.. (maybe the big DUH moment of my life??) ..he un-hammered the other phone and dialed: "Hey.. I have another one for you.." ..hung up and gave me directions to a cardboard box factory. I spent the next 2 months packing things in boxes for $10/hr.. back then it was good money, good enough to not require any other form of aid, at least. Are my views tainted with self determinism and personal responsibility? You bet your bottles they are.. but please don't hate me for it, I'm actually a compassionate SOB..


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## ktbi (Jun 9, 2011)

I feel strongly on both sides of this issue.  I absolutely believe that, as a society, we have an obligation to assist those who really need it.  Is that my left or my right view?  On the other side, it is so widely abused and maneuvered that some controls need to be put in place and enforced!  I don't see a problem with a welfare-to-work program and/or a strict monitoring/revalidation program to ensure the money gets to the right people.  I'm on the fence with drug testing.  A person either needs or doesn't need assistance and taking illegal drugs doesn't change that - BUT - the Gov't handout should not be used to purchase drugs.  Maybe the answer isn't a paycheck, but something like food stamps.  Whatever the answer is though - it will be abused, i.e. selling food stamps, using money for drugs, etc....Ron


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## bostaurus (Jun 9, 2011)

Sounds like a good idea.  I don't think it infringes on your rights any more than they are infringed upon now.  My husband had to have regular unannounced drug tests along with all the other military guys and gals....and to get around the ingenious devices folks have come up with to cheap on the pee test, someone had to watch you give your sample.
 My son had to have a drug test this week as part of his application for a summer job at a local hardware store. Now my youngest did not have to take a test and she is working with babies...  That seems a bit lopsided.


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## RedGinger (Jun 9, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I miss him too, Laur. He woulda prolly jumped all over this thread and made it interesting.. no, _fascinating _to the point of deletion.. []
> I'm perpetually broke, but I never got a govt handout and I'm proud of that. One time when I was around 20 years old, after quitting a really crappy job as a car salesman, I walked into the local employment agency. I was really desperate for dough, and kinda hoping they'd cut me a check then and there.. well, I ended up in a guys office, who was one two phones, one on each shoulder.. he looked up at me, hung up one phone, and asked me if I want to work.. I said yes.. (maybe the big DUH moment of my life??) ..he un-hammered the other phone and dialed: "Hey.. I have another one for you.." ..hung up and gave me directions to a cardboard box factory. I spent the next 2 months packing things in boxes for $10/hr.. back then it was good money, good enough to not require any other form of aid, at least. Are my views tainted with self determinism and personal responsibility? You bet your bottles they are.. but please don't hate me for it, I'm actually a compassionate SOB..


 
 LOL, you're right about that!  I was just discussing it with Joe and he said the same thing!  A strong work ethic is admirable.  That is something to be proud of in yourself, and others.


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## RedGinger (Jun 9, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  bostaurus
> 
> 
> My son had to have a drug test this week as part of his application for a summer job at a local hardware store. Now my youngest did not have to take a test and she is working with babies...  That seems a bit lopsided.


 
 Yeah.  I had to take one for a secretarial position, but not for a job working in an animal hospital.  I guess they figured no one was interested in flea meds lol.


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## RedGinger (Jun 9, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  PrivyCheese
> 
> Doing my best to stay away from anything political Why shouldnt people have to take a grug test to recieve it?


 
 Lobey would say, "Then, do better, Son!  I have no problems with grug tests, probably because I never heard of one!"


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## blobbottlebob (Jun 9, 2011)

I'm going to agree that something needs to be done. If an applicant gets a positive, they should immediately be offered a treatment option where successful completion - along with clean tests - and they are once again qualified. In other words, you have to earn the check by being drug free. Illegal drugs are causing a lot of serious problems. This is one way to give real world consequences to abusers. Otherwise the state is not only enabelling the drug abuse, it is actually directly supporting it.


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## PrivyCheese (Jun 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> In honor of my friend, Lobey, I am going to say that is really stupid.Â  I can see the intent behind this with things like Crack or something.Â  So, you don't want the government to invade your privacy, or you do?Â  How about a drug test for gun owners.Â  Does that seem equal to you?Â  Some of those that require assistance would fail the test because they need medications.Â  And it is because of their health problems, that they need assistance.Â  Can't anyone find anything better to do?Â
> 
> ...


 


   Laur, I agree with you, anyone who is taking a doctor prescribed medicine absolutly would not be affected by this. You have a prescription you get a pass. Of course that is not what I am talking about. It is illegal drugs they do not want tax payers dollars going to. It has been mentioned that this was a "goverment" hand out but in truth it is a tax payer handout.

   Infringeing on someones rights? I am all for helping those who need it. I want every person who needs help get that help. I am happy to do my part.  I work extremely hard to support my family. Today it was over a hundred degrees, Is it fair to me that I work so hard and some people get my money and spend it on illegal drugs?  Why cant I expect my tax dollars be spent the way it was supposed to. Helping people who need it and who use the money correctly...is that to much for me to ask?

   You bring up Lobes, ok....he was all for abortion....mentioned that we should have a drive up window and have all the abortions you want....I am against abortion...why should I have to pay for it....Before anyone goes balistic....I am not totally against abortion, there are some instances where abortion is appropriate....ie rape, incest ect. but there are people who are useing this as a birth control method....why should we have to pay for that? If you get prego the people involved should atleast have to pay for it. 

    As far as methdone programs....I am all for it. If someone is trying to help themselves....honestly. I am willing to help them. I know a young lady who has a child, she gets welfare, food stamps....help with her electric....and the govt. pays for her daycare. She DOSNT work! why should she. She gets more from the govt. (us) then if she worked...How is this right? BTW she drives a brand new car! I am 50 yrs old and have never owned a new car. Her rights would be violated if we ask her to take a drug test? 


   And someone explain to me why they call it a "independence card"? When the recipent is depending on us to go to work to pay for it. What people fail to realize is that its not the Govt. money .......its our money.


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## RedGinger (Jun 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  PrivyCheese
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 No, he most definitely was not.  While he was not of the same belief as you, he was most definitely not pro-abortion.  There are some who have worked, payed taxes and paid into the help they are getting.  That's all I have to say.  Not worth it.


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## rockbot (Jun 10, 2011)

I don't know how we can identify or define what drugs are okay and not okay.

 My oldest son will be a senior in college this fall and he told me that a lot of kids are taking adderall to improve their studying habits and ultimately get better test scores. He said this is becoming an epidemic. My son studies the old fashion way and has to compete with them.[]. What will these kids do when they enter the work force? Keep taking prescription drugs to function?

 Is this the society that we want to creat?

 Keep in mind these are students that are abusing the drug, not people diagnosed with ADHD.


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## andy volkerts (Jun 10, 2011)

[] A lot more than just welfare recipients should hafta take drug tests, drug use especially meth is really rampant in our country.All the drug takers should either be treated or sent to jail along with the sellers of the crap....Andy


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## RedGinger (Jun 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> I don't know how we can identify or define what drugs are okay and not okay.
> 
> ...


 
 I remember kids doing that in college.  They used to snort it.  I would be like, what is wrong with you?!  It scared me that they would do that.  Good for your son, for staying away from that!

 Also, the meth use is scary in its effects and the making of it.  Buildings exploding, people going crazy and wasting away to nothing.  It is definitely a problem we need to combat.


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 10, 2011)

> a lot of kids are taking adderall to improve their studying habits and ultimately get better test scores.


Scary, steroids for the brain. When will that bite them where the sun don't shine.

 A lot of the most famous people, especially in art, writing and even science areas did produce there best works while on something. Might have to broaden the hunt to the NEA and 100's of other agencies just to be fair.[]


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## PrivyCheese (Jun 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

   Laura, The quote that said ...Have a drive up window and have all the abortions you want....came directly from Lobes....It wasnt something I made up. You are the one who brought him into this conversation...not me. Sure we differ on opinions. But what you dont know is I spoke with him may times. We agreed to disagree. I understand you are his freind and are super sensitive right now....but what he said is what he said.....He also wished people dead....ironic...huh?

   Rocky, Are you actually following the thread? Aderal I am sure is perscribed by his doctor.  We are talking about illegal drugs. Its not that hard to differ between illegal and legal drugs. Legal drugs are perscribed Illegal are not....pretty simple.
 And I am certianally not against your son getting the help he needs.

   Once again, the thread is getting hijacked....


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## Wheelah23 (Jun 10, 2011)

Regardless of drug use, some people need help... Monetarily, physically, emotionally... Who are we to deny them that just because we see what they do as wrong?
 I think people addicted to drugs are the ones who most need help. Taking away their only source of income will only compound the problem. That won't give addicts an incentive to get clean, it will give them an incentive to steal or kill for drug money.


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## GuntherHess (Jun 10, 2011)

Welfare drug tests?
 An attractive campaign slogan maybe.
 It seems like pandering to the fiscal conservatives rather than an honest attempt to improve the system. 
 If it was found constitutional and implemented it would likely increase the size and cost of the government doing exactly the opposite of whats it proponents want.  Better to expend efforts on more effective solutions.
 Sex ed and birth control for teens would probably been much more effective in saving welfare money but the social conservatives wont buy into that.
 Just my opinion of course.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 10, 2011)

> Rocky, Are you actually following the thread? Aderal I am sure is perscribed by his doctor. We are talking about illegal drugs. Its not that hard to differ between illegal and legal drugs. Legal drugs are perscribed Illegal are not....pretty simple.
> And I am certianally not against your son getting the help he needs.
> 
> Once again, the thread is getting hijacked....


 
 Mr Cheese.. please read other posts thoroughly before commenting on them.

 Far as the thread being hijacked is concerned.. I'm putting together a set of pics of my grandma's purse collection.. will post them here later this evening..


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## RICKJJ59W (Jun 10, 2011)

I work for the city, we get random dug test's all the time.In the 19 years that I have been  employed there I only know of one instance where some one lost their job because of a hot test.If you fail the test your done.
      I wonder how many welfare recips  will lose there benefits or will they give them "warning's"  first ??

 Warning #1 "do it again and we will take your brand new tricked out Toyota" 

 Warning #2 "What did we tell you! marijuana is ok stay away from the hard stuff" 

 Warning #3 "We are trying to help you here,Drugs will stunt the growth  of the 12 children you are planing to have in the future.don't do it again!"

 Warning  # 4 "See what happens when you do drugs?you over sleep for your appointment at Welfare office.

 Warning # 5  If you do crack again we will not supply  the pants that hang off the bottom of you azzz.

    Please we only give you 50 warnings after that  you will be terminated.


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## RedGinger (Jun 10, 2011)

Privycheese aka Baltodigger, you are almost, almost but not quite as good at insults as Lobey.


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## RICKJJ59W (Jun 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> 
> Far as the thread being hijacked is concerned.. I'm putting together a set of pics of my grandma's purse collection.. will post them here later this evening..


 

 LOL I would love to see them Chuck

 Heres mine


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## rockbot (Jun 10, 2011)

An old friend of mine that was murdering in prison years ago once told me that drugs and alcohol just bring out what we really are inside.[]


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## cyberdigger (Jun 10, 2011)

That would explain why I'm such a lame-o shmuck when I get wasted..


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## RedGinger (Jun 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> An old friend of mine that was murdering in prison years ago once told me that drugs and alcohol just bring out what we really are inside.[]


 
 A marriage counselor once told me that in reference to my ex-husband.  Yep, it's the truth.


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## pyshodoodle (Jun 10, 2011)

Hmmmm.... really? Ok - I'm pleading the 5th.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 10, 2011)

It takes me more than 5 to get real.. []


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## pyshodoodle (Jun 10, 2011)

I rarely drink anymore. 1/2 a can of beer and I'm feeling it. I have a bottle of Elmo Pio from my birthday, though... maybe I'll drink tonight and chat with you folks. []


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## cyberdigger (Jun 10, 2011)

Well c'mon Kate.. what are you waiting for.. let's meet the real Kate...  [8|][>:]


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## morbious_fod (Jun 10, 2011)

Iâ€™m torn on this issue. One part of me doesnâ€™t like the idea of the government having the right to drug test anyone mainly because they wonâ€™t stop with the welfare folks. However, on the other hand I question exactly how many rights that individuals whose very existence is subsidized by the Government should have.

   Let me explain what I mean. The military is a voluntary government organization in which for their services the recruits trade a certain portion of their rights for the government providing food, lodging, and healthcare to them. The Government considers them government property, and thus they have to live according to the rules that are imposed upon them, one of which includes drug tests with an individual present to be sure that the pee is your own. If you do not pass then you are punished, usually by Article 15 (thatâ€™s a fine folks), and ultimately explosion from the military if you continue this activity.

   Now we have another voluntary group, they had to seek out the benefits, which also come to the Government for their food, lodging, and healthcare, but balk when the same types of controls are suggested for their particular group. Should a group who provides no service in return for their benefits have more rights than a group who actively protect our country? This is the question which plagues me when it comes to drug testing entitlement recipients. Frankly I have no easy answer for this as I believe we should help those who are truly in need; however, we also have to realize that there are people who will never voluntarily change or endeavor to get off of entitlements so long as there is no responsibility put on them to do so.  

 Either way we have a permanent growing welfare class in this country,  sooner or later we are going to have to deal with it, because at some point in the future the non-productive will outstrip their productive cash sources and all will starve.


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## liightfoote (Jun 10, 2011)

If you have NOTHING to hide, then why not take the test.   If I needed welfare, I would have no problem with a test.  If you are using MY monies(Taxes), I want it better spent.   I have witnessed the abuse of the system and have even reported same.....the reply from the State......none of my business.   Those opposing the law must know druggies on welfare or could care less about abuse of the system.  All civil servants are subject to random testing.  These people are getting wages from the government.  SO, if welfare people are getting monies from the government, I want them tested too.  If you are an honest person the test will prove it.  If you fight the testing, I am suspicious.  Ooops!  Liberals won't get votes from welfare people, if these same people lose their free money!  Sorry bleeding hearts.  Try a bandage not my money.


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## GuntherHess (Jun 10, 2011)

> Those opposing the law must know druggies on welfare or could care less about abuse of the system


 
 Cant argue with Joe McCarthy logic... all my druggy friends on welfare will be very sad[]  
 How you gonna feel when they tell you you have to take a p_i_s_s test before you can buy another gun?


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## RICKJJ59W (Jun 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> An old friend of mine that was murdering in prison years ago once told me that drugs and alcohol just bring out what we really are inside.[]


 

 I have to disagree Rock 
    "quitting drugs and alcohol brings out  what we really are inside".Doing them covers up the real person. 
      Trust me I know first hand []   sane as a clock full of kookoos[8D]


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## PrivyCheese (Jun 11, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> Privycheese aka Baltodigger, you are almost, almost but not quite as good at insults as Lobey.Â Â


 

    Luar, I will take that as a compliment. To be named in the same sentence with Lobes is quite lofty for me....

    Eric, I guess I missed something....I thought I did read every post.... I just didnt see how his sons medical needs had anything to do with the thread. Cant wait to see moms purse collection.....some purses are very valuable.

    Rick, I can always count on you to bring humor to any post...good job my man!

    Morbs....Morbs....Morbs....The voice of reason. Eloquence at its best. These soliders risk their lives and still have to take a drug test. 

    Matt, I have to agree with you, I admit I didnt look at it that way. I am more against big goverment then someone using entitlements illegally.  I also agree with the notion of someone having to take a drug test to purchase a gun. But there again I guess we are dealing with the same issue. I am going to not try and open another can of worms with the whole gun issue. But for the record 99% of serial killers do not use guns. 911 teroorist didnt use one single gun. And no I am not a gun enthusiast.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 11, 2011)

> Eric, I guess I missed something....I thought I did read every post.... I just didnt see how his sons medical needs had anything to do with the thread. Cant wait to see moms purse collection.....some purses are very valuable.


 
 ..please tell me you do it on purpose..! []


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 11, 2011)

> Cant argue with Joe McCarthy logic... all my druggy friends on welfare will be very sad
> How you gonna feel when they tell you you have to take a p_i_s_s test before you can buy another gun?


_Zanti Misfits_....'DO NOT INVADE OUR _PRIVACY_'!


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## liightfoote (Jun 11, 2011)

I think drug testing is a good idea for a gun purchase.  We just had a kid killed here and the shooter admitted to have been smoking pot.  From what I see, I may be the only one that is drug free. Sad state of affairs for the USA.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 11, 2011)

It's like the 1970's all over again.. but this time we can tweet about it.. [8|]


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## Penn Digger (Jun 11, 2011)

PA has pending legislation right now to test those on public assistance who have been convicted of previous drug crimes only.  I think it should be for everyone on public assistance.  If most working folks who foot the bill for those on assistance can be randomly tested, why shouldn't those who get free money for no work?

 Had a drug bust here a couple or years back, 17 arrested and more than half were on some form of assistance.

 Don't get me wrong, I truly believe that some people do deserve short term assistance.  From what I see the majority of people on assistance/welfare find it an entitlement or way of life.  If it was good enough for ma and pa, gramma...3rd and 4th generation welfare recipients who double as baby farmers.  The more babies they have the more money they get.  They should also work on some sort of legislation to the tune of - If you are on assistance and can't provide for the kids you already have then you will not receive any more free money for any future children you have while on assistance.

 There is little incentive for those in the welfare rut to seek anything else.  Free money, sleep in as long as you want, food card, rent and utility abatements, free medical (even dental),even down payments for a car....

 What ever happened to "Workfare?"  How about mandatory job training or community service?

 Sorry, but I have very strong feeling about welfare abuse and SSI disability for alcoholics, drug addicts, people who can't stop eating, can't read, can't spell.... Our town makes up 18% of the county's population but has over 90% off the public housing here because the assistance office is here.  Again, sorry for the rant.


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## Penn Digger (Jun 11, 2011)

*Welfare and drugs*

I know a local guy here who is on welfare and by the way admittedly uses some drugs occasionally.  He gets very excited in January every year about how much money he will be getting back from his tax return.  This does happen!  How can people with no source of income other than welfare get an income tax return check?  Child credit perhaps?  More of the working folks money.


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## JOETHECROW (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

You hit the nail square on Tom...What about the old timers who are prolly spinning in their graves? The oil driller who was on the rig up on "Music mountain" when the gusher came in during the 30's,...he was knocked off the rig by the force of the oil,...struck a tree and broke his leg, but finished out the work day?....OR your pal Mike's father who drove his _wheelchair_ to work a remarkable distance EVERY day for 20 years,...rain or shine,... or snow! Or countless other 'working poor' of former generations who were "too poor to paint, but too proud to whitewash" People are so coddled now that it's become ridiculous.


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## Penn Digger (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I think a lot this problem stems from a general reduction of pride and ambition in today's world. Top that off  with the allegation of  "drugs being more socially acceptable."


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## rockbot (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

This is what gets my goat.



http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=308173


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## RICKJJ59W (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

And it's only going to get worse,I see it every day.


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## swizzle (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

A friend of mine bought some "clean urine" to pass a drug test one time. He didn't have a proper container and had the woman fill two cigar tubes for him. He went to his testing and dumped the containers into the cup and then realized that he forgot to rinse out the containers. There was bits of tobacco floating around in there. He had a heck of a time trying to clean the clean urine but he passed. [][][][:'(] Yeah gross but funny. People will always find a way around a test. Sure you'll catch a few but then alcohol sales will soar again. 

 I'm actually against drug education. Teaching kids about the effects of drugs and how bad it is is really only teaching the kids about drugs. Kids want to experience life and once the drugs come around then kids will try them and then enjoy the happy euphoric feeling. Well if the adults lied to them about the evils of one drug then the others must be better. By educating we are showing the kids all of the drugs on the shelf that's available from your local street pharmacist. Of course tv doesn't help either. We are raising our kids in one of the worse drug societies ever. Kids are selling there ADHD meds in school and raiding their parents medicine cabinets as well. Monitor what your kids see and if they ask then show them the long term effects of drug abuse. Don't just say "Drugs are bad mmmmmkay"


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## GuntherHess (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> "clean urine"


 

 I have lot to sell , $20 a pint. No smoking household.


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## Penn Digger (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> This is what gets my goat.
> 
> ...


 

 What else would you expect Rocky?  Isn't Michigan the same state with the millionaire lottery winner still on food stamps?  They should block out junk food and Mountain Dew from those card purchases.   Then we would have some serious riots on our hands.


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## Penn Digger (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  swizzle
> 
> A friend of mine bought some "clean urine" to pass a drug test one time. He didn't have a proper container and had the woman fill two cigar tubes for him. He went to his testing and dumped the containers into the cup and then realized that he forgot to rinse out the containers. There was bits of tobacco floating around in there. He had a heck of a time trying to clean the clean urine but he passed. [][][][:'(] Yeah gross but funny. People will always find a way around a test. Sure you'll catch a few but then alcohol sales will soar again.


 

 A woman filled them for him?  Hope they didn't find he was pregnant.


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## blobbottlebob (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> This is what gets my goat.


 Yea Rocky, that is pretty disgusting. Five 24 packs of Mountain dew, lobster, and porterhouse steaks on the state. 

 Contrast this to my aunt.
 She came from the old country and survived the great depression and WWII. Her husband loved the U.S. so much that he signed up for the U.S.Navy and was sunk in arctic waters by a German sub. He survived but it is a long story.

 I remember she came over to visit after the death of my uncle and my mom asked her if she'd like something to drink. Maybe wine, beer, or soda. She replied that she only wanted a glass of hot water. A bit of an odd request but my mother obliged. My aunt then pulled out of her purse a tattered tea bag and put it in the water. The bag was used so many times that there was no sign of any infusion of tea into the water from the bag. When my mother saw this, she said, "No way. Not in my house." She pulled the overused tea bag out and gave ny aunt a new unused packet of tea. My aunt eventually died with substantial holdings but she had learned the hard way that you had to live frugally to be prepared for the worst.


----------



## swizzle (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  Penn Digger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 He is, It's a baby elephant. He keeps trying to show everyone the trunk. []


----------



## RedGinger (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Remember that Seinfeld episode, where Elaine has to take a drug test for work?  She fails because she has been eating a lot of poppyseed bagels.  Well, if you've seen it, you'll laugh.  It not, go watch that episode.


----------



## Plumbata (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

There will always be vampires waiting to take advantage of the bleeding hearts.

  In my conversations with liquor shop owners, they say that right when  the aid checks arrive business booms for several days. The same was  said by a drug dealer I once knew. What a coincidence... 

  I am neither a fan of big gov't nor general invasions of privacy, but I  would be OK with welfare recipients getting drug tested. I'm not one of them and don't ever plan to be. Many such  people are honest and hardworking individuals trying to lift themselves  back up, but many others are disgusting piles of fast-food grease, freebase cocaine  and cheap booze who would croak on the spot if told that they should go get a job, or at least finish their high-school education. I have no pity whatsoever for the latter group.  They are a disgrace to themselves and to this nation, and since their mere existence hinders the economic productivity and progressive social evolution of America I feel that their rights aren't as valuable, say... as _my_ rights. []

 Legalize Marijuana, tax the heck out of it, and test the welfare leeches for hard drugs like Cocaine, Methamphetamine, PCP, Heroin, etc. Pot is far better for the body and mind than alcohol, so I don't consider it a substance of concern. Urine test kits are cheap as hell and so extraordinarily easy to administer that a dog with downs-syndrome could oversee the process with total competence.

 I'm all for certain eugenic practices too. Reproductive rights are a very touchy issue, but if you have an IQ of 70, hold no job, have no non-governmental means of support, and are churning out inferior children faster than the Mormons then you should be sterilized unless you can (largely) support yourself and your own. Us humans have almost totally halted the process of natural selection in regards to our species, so I feel that social mandates should take the place of what was once absolutely necessary for the refinement of the collective human body and mind over the millennia. Sure, it is taboo, but I think that inferior genetics should be consciously weeded from the population (humanely), not allowed to flourish. We do it with livestock, we do it with fruit and vegetable cultivars, and now we should do it to ourselves.


----------



## PrivyCheese (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

There was a time when a man would do anything to not have to take welfare. Any menial job would do. It was an embaressment. He had pride. He was defined as a man how he  provided for his family. If he had little....it didnt matter. It was his. He earned it. If his harvest was bountiful he gave some to his nieghbor. 

   When I was a young man you would be denied welfare if you owned a car, had a banking acct. owned a home. Now getting welfare is a badge of honor. How much can I get for doing nothing. The american creed is scam, flam or sham....I am going to get mine anyway I can. The notion that we give welfare to drug addicts so they wont steal or commit crimes is lunacy. Pay them to not commit crimes? huh? Is this really the world you would want to live in?

   What happened to the American spirit? The toughness that made us great? We are n the verge of total colapse. No one cares aslong as they get theirs. 

    Joe I hold a lot of admiration for you, you were unemployed for a long time. All you wanted was a job. Any job. I could hear it in your words that you just didnt feel right not working. It was as much about putting your hands on something then it was about the money. I never disrespect anybody about what kind of job they have. It dosnt matter if they work at Walmart or the local 7-11 store. They are working. IMHO welfare and entitlements are eating at the very fiber of America.
 We increaseingly are dependent on the goverment. From cradle to grave we want to be taken care of. No personal responsibility. We want.....no expect the goverment to cure all of our ills. We feel that it is some sort of human right to have certian wants met. How many of you seen the commercials that say.....you on welfare? on SSI? food stamps? now you can get a cell phone free!....Are you freakin kidding me? 

   I did a lot of thinking about this whole issue this weekend. I hate big goverment more then anything. But where does it stop? How many of these phones are used for illegal activity? We as taxpayers paying to help drug dealers? REALLY? 

   The polticians of today have no testional fortitude, they will never do anything to change it. Infact they will just perpetuate more of the same. They will continue to give our money away to stay in office. So they can accumulate service time so they can get fat pensions and medical insurance for life. Most senators leave office as millionaires, Why do you think that is? Are giving welfare recipents drug test just some other way a politician is trying to get votes? Does he really care about you and our children? Is it just another backhanded way of growing the goverment by adding another dept.?....the dept of Pee....the DOP 

   God help us all.


----------



## kungfufighter (Jun 12, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  Plumbata
> 
> 
> 
> I'm all for certain eugenic practices too. Reproductive rights are a very touchy issue, but if you have an IQ of 70, hold no job, have no non-governmental means of support, and are churning out inferior children faster than the Mormons then you should be sterilized unless you can (largely) support yourself and your own. Us humans have almost totally halted the process of natural selection in regards to our species, so I feel that social mandates should take the place of what was once absolutely necessary for the refinement of the collective human body and mind over the millennia. Sure, it is taboo, but I think that inferior genetics should be consciously weeded from the population (humanely), not allowed to flourish. We do it with livestock, we do it with fruit and vegetable cultivars, and now we should do it to ourselves.


 Who knew that Sarah Palin was a bottle collector?!


----------



## kungfufighter (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  Plumbata
> 
> I'm all for certain eugenic practices too. Reproductive rights are a very touchy issue, but if you have an IQ of 70, hold no job, have no non-governmental means of support, and are churning out inferior children faster than the Mormons then you should be sterilized unless you can (largely) support yourself and your own. Us humans have almost totally halted the process of natural selection in regards to our species, so I feel that social mandates should take the place of what was once absolutely necessary for the refinement of the collective human body and mind over the millennia. Sure, it is taboo, but I think that inferior genetics should be consciously weeded from the population (humanely), not allowed to flourish. We do it with livestock, we do it with fruit and vegetable cultivars, and now we should do it to ourselves.


 
 Adolf, is that you?!


----------



## Penn Digger (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  PrivyCheese
> 
> There was a time when a man would do anything to not have to take welfare. Any menial job would do. It was an embaressment. He had pride. He was defined as a man how he  provided for his family. If he had little....it didnt matter. It was his. He earned it. If his harvest was bountiful he gave some to his nieghbor.
> 
> ...


 
 Awesome post John!!!


----------



## Penn Digger (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  Plumbata
> 
> There will always be vampires waiting to take advantage of the bleeding hearts.
> 
> ...


 
 Interesting post,  agree with most of it.


----------



## JOETHECROW (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

[] http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_AYEgwwCYWw#at=74

 The theme song to the apcolypse...done w/ class.


----------



## Penn Digger (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

A really good friend of mine owns a few used car lots.  Every once in a while I will repo a hard to find or dangerous situation vehicle for him for a few extra bucks.  Roughly 6 to 8 weeks ago I had to snag a car over in some small town in NY State.  I had the local police watching for this car and finally got a call that it showed up.  Rushed the hour drive over to grab it.  When I pulled in the driveway with a friend I saw somebody in the window looking out.  As soon as I got out of my car, a group carrying Bud pounders comes out of the blue tarp roofed shack.  I tell them what I am there for, tell them the police know I am there, ask them to get anything out of the car they may need, listen to their sob story....blah, blah, blah.  I then tell them I know what it feels like to be poor and have to juggle bill payments, at which point a greasy slob of a woman in the group loudly proclaims "I ain't poor, I get food stamps!"  Had to hold my laughter at that point, but laughed most of the way home to think that somebody could actually believe that.


----------



## Plumbata (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  PrivyCheese
> welfare and entitlements are eating at the very fiber of America.


 
  Darn tootin' PrivyCheese. Those of us who build and operate businesses  are the shining stars of America; generating the income from which the  "entitled" subsist, and creating jobs when there were none before. 



> ORIGINAL:  kungfufighter
> Who knew that Sarah Palin was a bottle collector?!


 
  Palin would be the first idiot in the (chemical) sterilization line if I  were running things... And no this is not Adolph Hitler, you supremely  clever man, you. []   I figure my position will ruffle the uninspired sensibilities of most  people; I was also taught to view such ideas with suspicion and hatred,  and did so until I picked up a book from 1916 entitled "Eugenics" and  learned what personal, social, and genetic hygeine meant to people not  influenced by the evil insanity of Hitler. It actually makes a lot of  sense, that is, if the Bible isn't wedged so far up one's arse that free  thinking is is rendered impossible.

  Do you want your apple trees to be unproductive and susceptible to  disease? Do you want your cows to possess an inefficient ratio of gained  weight versus food ingested? Do you want the grass in your lawn to die  in the cold and happily make-way for dandelions if the frost didn't  finish it off? Do you want your grandchildren to be imbeciles, or desire  that they possess defects which will lead to a decreased  life-expectancy and general quality of life? Would you sit back idly if  you had the chance to influence any of these examples for the better?

  Well golly gee, I guess you must be Hitler incarnate if you answered "no" to any of these!


----------



## JOETHECROW (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> When I pulled in the driveway with a friend I saw somebody in the window looking out.


 

 Yes,...wasn't _that _fun!!! [] At least I didn't have to drive the death trap back to town.


----------



## blobbottlebob (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> I think that inferior genetics should be consciously weeded from the population (humanely), not allowed to flourish.


 
 Plumb,
 I try to stay out of politics as much as I can on here. But this statement is something so similar to what Joseph Mengele professed that it disturbs me profoundly. Just take out the word "humanely" and you're there. This is no joke Plumb. These ideas have allowed some of the worst sick-bastard-monsters humanity has ever created to torture and murder innocent people in the name of so called superior genetics. I cannot let what you have said stand. I can only hope that the people who have already acted on those beliefs are in the hottest part of hell.


----------



## blobbottlebob (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Okay. Sorry for that rant.

 Here's another disturbing thing about the food cards (in Wisconsin it's called a quest card). We have restrictions (not many) that do no allow the user to purchase booze or cigarettes. So, they try to sell the quest cards at a discount to get the money for what they really want. Often, when I go to the store, someone approaches me asking if they can buy my groceries (at a special discount) and then I can give them the cash. I'd say the usual offer is two to one. "I'll buy twenty in groceries if you give me ten bucks." Its so disgusting. I wish there was a way to have them arrested for welfare fraud on the spot.


----------



## bostaurus (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  blobbottlebob
> 
> 
> 
> ...


  I am trying to stay out of politics too but this is a bit more than politics.  Who would be deciding how "superior" genetics would be defined?  I think we have all seen in our government that the "cream of the crop" from Harvard and Yale are not always the "brightest" people.  Wisdom, discernment, and a moral compass are part of a society's greatest attributes, yet they cannot be "selected" in a breeding program or by culling out those deemed of lesser value. How do we test for IQ? If they have an amazing IQ but are mentally unstable do they get a pass?  Really smart but bad asthma and on the heavy side?  The body of Adonis but dumb as a brick?  If I had a crisis in my life and needed advice..would I go to an elderly grand parent who never made it through high school because they needed to work or the newly minted honor grad from some Ivy League? No contest.  Wisdom trumps book knowledge unless I am trying to do something technical.  No tests or evaluation can predict the type of person you will become or your "value".    As much as Darwinian evolution would like to have us believe we are just animals it is obvious we are more than that.  
 Whether you believe in a higher power or not, man has a spiritual longing.  Many of us here have found a way to satisfy that longing and many have not.  We all question and we all search. I think we all know in a broad sense what is good and what is evil.   If we push back hard enough and long enough we can bury that sense and come to believe that it is alright to allow rights to only those we deem 'correct'.  As we have seen it is so easy... maybe we could segregate them so we actually don't have to come in contact with them...this is a drain on our finances and a stress on the camp workers,  it would be so much easier if there weren't so many in the camp.  Let's face it, some are to sick or too old to work, some are mentally unfit...it would be a kindness to them if we just humanely ended their  suffering.


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Jun 13, 2011)

> ORIGINAL: liightfoote
> 
> I think drug testing is a good idea for a gun purchase. We just had a kid killed here and the shooter admitted to have been smoking pot. From what I see, I may be the only one that is drug free. Sad state of affairs for the USA.


 
  Must have been some crappy pot. I've personally found smoking pot will keep you FROM shooting people.

  Maybe he would have been better off using the Twenkie defence.


 As far as welfare bums go. I gave the goverment the money they wanted so it's theirs now to do w/ what they want.

 If people so choose to draw welfare and live like they live in a third world country. Who am I to say something.


----------



## cowseatmaize (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> Here's another disturbing thing about the food cards (in Wisconsin it's called a quest card). We have restrictions (not many) that do no allow the user to purchase booze or cigarettes. So, they try to sell the quest cards at a discount to get the money for what they really want. Often, when I go to the store, someone approaches me asking if they can buy my groceries (at a special discount) and then I can give them the cash. I'd say the usual offer is two to one. "I'll buy twenty in groceries if you give me ten bucks." Its so disgusting. I wish there was a way to have them arrested for welfare fraud on the spot.


 In Mass it's a card with similar restrictions. Some additional ones are anything taxable. That means TP, cleaning supplies, soap and shampoo, foil and wraps, laundry detergent, OTC medication, toothpaste and brushes etc..
 I'm not saying those folk your seeing aren't going to the liquor store or it's right but you can't make that generalization. Maybe they just want to wipe themselves, keep house and even look and smell presentable for a job and that's how they pay for it.


----------



## kungfufighter (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Plumb, no amount of rambling, multisyllabic musings will change my opinion on this topic so if you are speaking to me directly, save your breath.  You are certainly within your "rights" to hold these views but I disagree with them vehemently.  Enough said.


----------



## cowseatmaize (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> and did so until I picked up a book from 1916 entitled "Eugenics" and learned what personal, social, and genetic hygeine meant to people not influenced by the evil insanity of Hitler.


Who wrote that, Edgar Cayce?[][]


----------



## ktbi (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

There are an overwhelming majority of intelligent people on this forum and the great majority have a work and life ethic that I am proud to be associated with. Maybe that work ethic and life view are prevalent in this hobby because collecting bottles is hard work and attracts only a certain kind of person.  When the Gov't starts an antique bottle give away program - this hobby is going to go to pot......

 I believe we should just do away with welfare entirely - NOBODY gets it!!! Start a government jobs program instead where if you apply - you get hired - no questions asked. Conditions are that you must either work or go back to school as a condition of receiving employment. Work could include washing gov't vehicles, picking up trash, anything to improve your local community.  There are programs in place already for those too sick to work, and there will be exceptions to address, but calling it a job rather than welfare would make a substantial difference.

 I had to rely on disability and then unemployment for a little over a year, about 12 years ago. My kidneys were shot, I was very sick, and I had to find a career that would not put physical strain on them. I went back to school full time in my mid 40's - that was my job! I needed that assistance, but I had been paying into it for 25 years.  I found a good job several months before graduation and finished #1 in my class.  Shortly after that, I had both my kidneys removed and was on dialysis for a year before I got a transplant.  I worked full time the entire time and was back to work 13 days after the operation.  Point is that I needed the assistance.  I worked damn hard for it and used it for what it was, assistance and not a life style. That should be the focus for government assistance programs....Ron.


----------



## Plumbata (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I suppose that dark humor and actual belief shouldn't be mixed, eh?

  No, I would not infringe on the reproductive rights of individuals. The  forced hysterectomies of African Americans, and of women in Chile (or  somewhere in the continent) are intrinsically atrocious. I would not  support this. I never suggested, in jest or otherwise, that people  should be actively culled from the population. This is both morally  wrong, and ultimately unnecessary if the education of this society  included lessons in natural and artificial selection and genetic traits.

  There is no objectively "superior" genetic background, and no way for  any individual or group of individuals to define it. Depending on the  environment, there are maladaptive traits and useful, adaptive traits  but that is about as far as you can categorize them. If there was  actually a regime in place which sterilized those deemed "unfit", my  impulsive nature would land me on the list immediately. 

  My primary, actual belief is that it is the right of children to enjoy a  good life, not the right of parents to bring children into this world,  that is most important. I believe that the route traveled by the nazis  was misguided to the core, but the general concept of increasing the  genetic strength of humanity is a rather noble aim. We do it with the  plants and animals we cultivate, so why not apply some of those lessons  to us Humans? Is it wrong to desire collective genetic improvement over  the current trend of collective genetic mediocritization? Never mind the  individual, what is best for the long-term survival of the most awesome  species on earth? 

  In addition to honest sex education, there should be great focus on the  fact that when the cells of 2 individuals unite, they in effect _create_  new life, life which is gifted or burdened with the genetic attributes  of the parents. It is not as if expectant parents will get a child  plucked randomly from a hat by God, but rather, a child created from a  fusion of the traits of both parents. It should be taught that some  people have complimentary traits which would generally lead to robust  offspring, and other pairings can lead to generally feeble offspring. If  every potential parent was made acutely aware that their mate choice  will directly influence the general health and happiness of the new,  unique human being created, perhaps more care and consideration would be  involved in the process. Perhaps people who later become worthless  welfare baby farmers would instead understand that they owe it to their  unique children to provide the best they can; materially and  genetically, and then these children would be raised properly and also  possess the inborn strengths to make the best of things? Perhaps, if  these people had it pounded into their skulls that the children they are  using to generate income are by nature extensions of themselves; new  life which carries the family/genetic line forward another generation,  then the average youth in America would live a better life. With fewer  dependents or wards of the state, the saved money could be applied to  more productive endeavors.


----------



## peejrey (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

This will lighten the mood..
 I think It has something to do with this...or a distraction from the intense political views...or ignore it. . . . .
 pic 2-5
 http://bonehead.lerman.biz/php/EducatingTheStupid.php


----------



## rockbot (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

All one needs to do is watch the movie "Idiocracy". That is exactly the course man is taking.


----------



## morbious_fod (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Ow my balls!


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

All you have to do is leave your home... ..they's all crazies out there.. [&:]


----------



## sandchip (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Idiocracy was a danged funny movie.

 No, I won't have my Mama put to sleep.  Sure she has Alzheimer's and doesn't know me anymore, but if not for her bringing all those bottle books home from the library...

 None of my guns were bought with taxpayer dollars.


----------



## sandchip (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Oh, and one more thing.

 When all the sh!t comes down, it'll be ironic to hear all the liberals saying, "Oh, God, help me!" and "Damn, if I only had a gun!"


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL: sandchip
> 
> Oh, and one more thing.
> 
> When all the sh!t comes down, it'll be ironic to hear all the liberals saying, "Oh, God, help me!" and "Damn, if I only had a gun!"


 
  Why do you think people w/ liberal leanings don't have a gun?

  I'm pretty damn liberal and I have a gun..................wait,wait,wait Paulas very liberal and she has several guns.

  As far as asking God for help.........................................I ask him to smite the conservatives for the good of all.


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I'm conservative and I don't have a gun. Sounds like I might have to re-think this...


----------



## sandchip (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

If you got a gun, you ain't too liberal.  'Least not thru and thru.

 He'll be smitin' whoever be needin' a good smiting, I'm sure.


----------



## Plumbata (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

If you have a home-made rocket launcher, a number of explosive devices, knives, bows, swords, spears and a stockpile of scarce strategic chemicals but no gun, where would one be plotted along the political continuum?

 Also, how much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck was a conservative?


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 13, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> scarce strategic chemicals


  Do tell..!!


----------



## JOETHECROW (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Wisdom, discernment, and a moral compass are part of a society's greatest attributes, yet they cannot be "selected" in a breeding program or by culling out those deemed of lesser value. How do we test for IQ? If they have an amazing IQ but are mentally unstable do they get a pass? Really smart but bad asthma and on the heavy side? The body of Adonis but dumb as a brick? If I had a crisis in my life and needed advice..would I go to an elderly grand parent who never made it through high school because they needed to work or the newly minted honor grad from some Ivy League? No contest. Wisdom trumps book knowledge unless I am trying to do something technical. No tests or evaluation can predict the type of person you will become or your "value". As much as Darwinian evolution would like to have us believe we are just animals it is obvious we are more than that. 
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

*Well said Melinda...
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



*

 I too have guns and see no reason I should not. I grew up having guns and will continue to do so. I have many mixed opinions that do not fit a single political persuasion.... I also believe people who can, _should_ earn their way.


----------



## baltbottles (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> I believe we should just do away with welfare entirely - NOBODY gets it!!! Start a government jobs program instead where if you apply - you get hired - no questions asked. Conditions are that you must either work or go back to school as a condition of receiving employment. Work could include washing gov't vehicles, picking up trash, anything to improve your local community.  There are programs in place already for those too sick to work, and there will be exceptions to address, but calling it a job rather than welfare would make a substantial difference.


 
 I like this idea completely... Also while we are at it lets reward people with tax incentives for saving money and for working hard and being self sufficient.... I also believe increasing the mandatory education time for children to include 4 years of college paid for by the government would help level the playing field..... And remove the ability of students to drop out after a certain age. Force everyone to actually get an education.....


 Chris


----------



## morbious_fod (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

What do guns have to do with making welfare recipients take a drug test? Never mind. The reason that those with liberal leanings are stereotypically thought to not own a gun, is that it's usually the liberals who are doing their level best to outlaw them altogether. Note I said stereotypically, reality is most likely different at least in some cases.

 As for smiting, I am getting sick of people trying to tell me how I can live my life. The old hippies and old Christians have long since made being either a liberal or conservative a dirty word, because both of them are all for Government control of the lives of their fellow citizens so long as they get to call the shots as to what form that control takes.

 As for the original topic, the argument that is being thrown at this law is the same old tired "What about the children?" argument, which is in reality just good old emotional blackmail. Every time someone starts saying that we need to fix the entitlement system we get this argument, because the opposition has no ways to argue the logic of trying to give these people the opportunity to rise up from their perpetual poverty. There is only one reason why this system doesn't get fixed, because politicans don't want their base to realize that they are just buying their votes.

 BTW I'm an Independent, and I don't own a gun. Never felt the need for one, but I don't have the right to take them away from those who want them.


----------



## blobbottlebob (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> No tests or evaluation can predict the type of person you will become or your "value".


 Thanks Melinda.


----------



## sandchip (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  JOETHECROW
> I also believe people who can, _should_ earn their way.


 
 Although it can be difficult to get much work done if you spend all day holding your too large britches up with one hand.  And your free cell phone with the other.


----------



## GuntherHess (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal , does that mean I should have a gun or not? A bow and arrows maybe? Its all so confusing.[]


----------



## cowseatmaize (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal , does that mean I should have a gun or not? A bow and arrows maybe? Its all so confusing.


That's like me, I'm a moderate. I think that means undecided in the political world. Maybe that's indecisive, I can't choose. I own half a gun. Well a whole gun but just a 22. It does shoot LR so maybe it's a whole gun, I don't know. I see Shades of Gray


----------



## Jim (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I don't really "fit in" anywhere on the traditional political spectrum, either. I'm fiscally conservative to the extreme, pro-Second Amendment, non-religious, pro-choice with limited and reasonable restrictions, anti-drug, and strongly believe that the government is way too large and intrusive. If two guys or two gals want to be together, who cares? Not I. None of my business, and certainly none of Uncle Sam's.

 So, a hard-line social conservative would probably call me a "filthy liberal" for some of my social views. Too bad, some things are simply none of the government's business. To the hardcore liberal socialist types, I'm a "greedy capitalist pig" who wants to "starve the children". None of these assertions has any basis in fact, but political extremists on BOTH sides of the aisle never let annoying things like facts get in the way of their blathering.

 I am a registered Republican for one reason- Independents are locked out of voting in primary elections in Pennsylvania. In some states, Independents can choose a primary and vote in it. Here, it's party-only.  ~Jim


----------



## PrivyCheese (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Chew on this a bit:



   They take 20-35% of your check when you make it

   They take 6-10% of your check when you spend it

   They take 16% when you invest it

   They take 50% when you win it

   They take 65% of it when you you die

   They take it when you buy gas

   They take it when you buy Utitlities

   They charge you money to live in your house

   Fewer Jobs and more jobs outsourced to foriegn countries.

   Declining wages and benifits

   Underfunded benifits

   Rising healthcare cost and less coverage

   Rising gas prices

   Rising food cost

   Rising regressive taxes

   Increased Immergration

   Increaseing debt

   Declineing loans

   Rising inflation....

    Tell me how is that Hope and Change working out for you?


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL: PrivyCheese
> 
> Chew on this a bit:
> 
> ...


 
  .................. and this is our presidents fault?    Tell me how.


----------



## peejrey (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Jeez Cheese, put it like it is. . . . . .


----------



## Jim (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

It's working out exactly as I thought it would, John. I'm disgusted, but not surprised. Bringing back Keynesian economics again and again is like sticking a hot poker in your eye repeatedly. It didn't do any good the first time, and repeating it only prolongs the suffering, increases the damage and delays the healing.~Jim


----------



## PrivyCheese (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  baltbottles
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jim (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I am OK with the government putting people to work in hard economic times. For as much disdain as I have for many of FDR's policies, that is one thing he did right. Those people worked hard, and the taxpayers got a return on their investment with schools, roads, etc. Then came Johnson with his "Great Welfare Society", and it has been downhill from there. Our current president resembles Johnson a lot more than he does FDR. Helping people help themselves is great. Creating a culture of dependency is not.  ~Jim


----------



## RedGinger (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 True, Pat.


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

This country is in quite a pickle, isn't it?
 Well, I'm no dummy by any stretch, of course..[8|] ..but I just can't come up with a good way to fix it.
 Best thing that could happen would be a massive, deadly epidemic. The more that die, the better off the survivors would be. 

 As soon as one human thinks of a 'human' solution, another human will call it "inhumane." ...[&o]


----------



## GuntherHess (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> This country is in quite a pickle, isn't it?


 
 The first step of recovery is admitting you have a problem...or so they say[]


----------



## PrivyCheese (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Its not his fault, I know the line is....Its all George Bush's fault. But fact is it has been years in the making. Bill Clinton had as much to do with whats going on in America as anyone. But I am sure no one wants to hear that. Now that I have answered your question....answer mine....What exactly is this president doing to fix it? Fact: he has increased the national debt more then the last three presidents...PUT TOGETHER He says he saved millions of jobs....Got back every penny we lent Goverment Motors....Fact is we recieved stock instead of cash. If we would sell this stock at todays prices we would lose BILLIONS.  We will never recover the money we gave. Infact if there is another recession those same companies will be back with their hands out. Signed into law a healthcare bill that will cripple America. PLEASE tell me ONE good thing this president has done? Brought our troops home?...Like he promised? Close quintanamo prison like he promised? End the wars? ummmm infact we now are in another war (syria). Are we any better today then we were two years ago? Do you see any sign of it getting better? Unemployment at over 9% in a lot of communities its over 10% 

   No where we are at today isnt his fault at all. But what is he doing to make it better? 





> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## PrivyCheese (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

You would think that the word "liberal" would be just that. That you would think in liberal terms. Be open to lots of ideas. Be open to others opinions no matter what their political affiliation would be. Then as this free liberal thinking person, you ask God to smite someone just because they think differently then you. seems to me that isnt so liberal. So I guess your against anything mentioned in this thread. That Welfare recipeints should be drug tested?....that anyone collecting such benifits should be given free cell phones?  As if God has nothing better to do then smite conservatives. 


> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Penn Digger (Jun 14, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

PrivyCheese, let's see the rest of your list.  I agree that Obama inherited a pile when he took the office, but he has turned it into a mountain with broken promises and more welfare....  Spare change is about all we'll have left.  Back to the topic - test everyone of public assistance.  What drugs were admitted to in "Dreams of My Father?"


----------



## morbious_fod (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal , does that mean I should have a gun or not? A bow and arrows maybe? Its all so confusing.[]


 
 There is indeed another. LOL! I guess we can own a gun so long as it fits into our budget. LOL!


----------



## morbious_fod (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  Jim
> 
> I don't really "fit in" anywhere on the traditional political spectrum, either. I'm fiscally conservative to the extreme, pro-Second Amendment, non-religious, pro-choice with limited and reasonable restrictions, anti-drug, and strongly believe that the government is way too large and intrusive. If two guys or two gals want to be together, who cares? Not I. None of my business, and certainly none of Uncle Sam's.
> 
> ...


 
 Right on brother.


----------



## cordilleran (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Hoy Hoy. The electorate bought a pig in a poke (besmeared in lipstick) to prove they liked razorbacks. I remember 2008 being a good year. 2009 through 2011 caught all of you drinking color blind cyanide through a straw and speaking of tolerance and diversity. You get what you wish for because you lack spinal fortitude. Look at Weiner. The poster child of mediocrity feeding at the public trough. Straw man fallacies only go so far.


----------



## rockbot (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> This country is in quite a pickle, isn't it?
> Well, I'm no dummy by any stretch, of course..[8|] ..but I just can't come up with a good way to fix it.
> ...


 

 Our solar system will be entering the 26,000 year cycle. The earths magnetic poles will switch and during that transition period of about a year we will be exposed 
 to large amounts of cosmic rays. Most living things will perish and only life in the sea will rein once again.


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Cheese, just because someone has liberal leanings, that does not make them a pussy. Peroid.

 The question was 'Drug testing welfare people'.................why that would be a big ol' NO.


----------



## GuntherHess (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> Our solar system will be entering the 26,000 year cycle. The earths magnetic poles will switch and during that transition period of about a year we will be exposed
> to large amounts of cosmic rays. Most living things will perish and only life in the sea will rein once again.


 
 I'm waiting for one of the giant supercollider experiments to successfully create a mini black hole. Will suck in the drugs, the people, and the earth. All problems solved.


----------



## glass man (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I Think the biggest blood suckers that take and take and take,but give nothing back  the congress,senate ,president etc. should all be drug tested DAILY!! THE PERVERTS!

 By now LOBES woulda already been threatened with being thrown off here at least 3 times.I pray none of you ever have to take anything from the gov...if you don't think they know your business ...you don't even know what you are talking about also what little you get you sure ain't got "IT MADE" like some act!

 Welfare as it existed in the 60s or so is gone...some state give more then others...we live in GEORGIA...we are lucky to get any help at all and the damn REPUBLICANS ,which control our state are trying to get rid of that,THE BASTIDS have already slashed money to our schools so they can give it to corperations here that  don't hire here!!!To make up for it our property taxes have doubled...MY wife gets a disability check...I get nothing though I  can't work either,but.....understand we PUT INTO THE SYSTE FOR A COMBINED 60 + YEARS!So don't think we have never worked...that is what many assume when they think of some one getting a disabilty check or food stamps.

 I WILL BE GLAD TO PEE ON ANY OF THEM FOR MY DRUG TEST!!JAMIE


----------



## cowseatmaize (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I just took a drug test this morning for pre-employment. The manager wanted to hire me on the spot a few days ago just for agreeing to it. Corporate rules prevailed though.

 That black hole thing sounds cool. I hope it's more exciting than the whole millennium thing though. I thought that was boring. I knew that was coming 2000 years ago and I went though about 90 reincarnations just to see it.
 What a bust!


----------



## PrivyCheese (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Intresting, never remembered calling anyone a kitty cat.....You asked the question was it this presidents fault? I amswered it. Then asked you a simple question....What exactly has this president done to help matters? You choose to avoid the question...ok


> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> Cheese, just because someone has liberal leanings, that does not make them a pussy. Peroid.
> 
> The question was 'Drug testing welfare people'.................why that would be a big ol' NO.


----------



## RedGinger (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Thank goodness.  What year will this be?  Might as well acquire some drugs, alcohol and firearms first!


----------



## RedGinger (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  glass man
> 
> 
> 
> By now LOBES woulda already been threatened with being thrown off here at least 3 times.I pray none of you ever have to take anything from the gov...if you don't think they know your business ...you don't even know what you are talking about also what little you get you sure ain't got "IT MADE" like some act!


 
 I know.  Ironically, this thread is preserving his memory even more.  True, Jamie.  If the government could listen in on our phone conversations, among other things, I'm quite sure they already know everything about us.  I would tell everyone just to suck it, but I like a few of you on this thread!


----------



## rockbot (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> Thank goodness.Â  What year will this be?Â  Might as well acquire some drugs, alcohol and firearms first!


 
 Our solar system revolves around the center of our milky way galaxy once every 26,000 years. At some point we will cross a region that will cause such an event. It is a natural phenomenon. No one can predict a time as we do not know with certain were this region may lie. Other events such as large collisions with asteroids 
 and ice age type events will occur as we spin about our galaxy like a lawn chair in a tornado.[]

 As you know the center of our galaxy is a super massive black hole. Sagittarius A is a radio source at this center and a lot of our research is done in this area. It is obscured from optical view by the spiral arms of the Milky way.

 The Mayan calendar is one such attempt but they would not have had the knowledge that we have today about the center of our milky way galaxy, unless of course they were visited by aliens.[]


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 15, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Fun stuff Rocky! []
 I hope it happens real sudden like, cause I'm the worrying sort. 
 Just one question.. how do we know it's gonna happen every 26k? Did the mastodons leave a pamphlet?


----------



## morbious_fod (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  glass man
> 
> I Think the biggest blood suckers that take and take and take,but give nothing back  the congress,senate ,president etc. should all be drug tested DAILY!! THE PERVERTS!
> 
> ...


 
 I never said that everyone who is getting entitlements had never worked, nor that they "had it made", but I also won't sit here with my fingers in my ears pretending that everyone who is on entitlements are all perfectly truthful angels either. Those who can't work, like yourself, can't work, I'm not talking about them, I'm  talking about those who can, but either won't or have lost that drive to  do so, but are perfectly sound psychically. You know as well as I do  that there are thousands of these people out there. I live in Southwest Virginia, the place that Johnson visited that caused him to start his war on poverty, which helped for a while, but has ultimately enslaved many generations to the government dole.

 You are correct Jamie, the entitlement system of sixty years ago was much different than it is now, back then those who were forced by circumstances to go on the dole were ashamed to be in that situation, and did everything they could to get off of it. Now we have an entitlement class that feels that they not only have the right to free money, but have long lost the shame that was once inherent in their position. They become trapped in the system, and eventually lose the will or desire to strive for anything higher.

 How many great minds do we lose to this class? If the nearly fifty percent of the population numbers are true, I'd say a lot. There should be a better way, but no politician is going to even dream of suggesting a change in the entitlement system for fear that this would cost them votes. Maybe we should force some of these individuals to get better educations, learn a trade, apprenticeships, something to learn valuable job skills. Give a man a chance not a check. This isn't my idea, Franklin Delano Roosevelt created it in the form of the C. C. C. camps. If you are going to pay them, put them to good use. We have a lot of crumbling infrastructure that could use some work, and a work force enslaved to government hand outs.


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

The reason we can't afford to put people to work is all the liability costs.. every time one of those 'employees' gets a splinter they'd be screaming bloody murder and suing, suuiing, suuuuweeeing the poor innocent gubbament.


----------



## Penn Digger (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I don't have a problem with people getting disability that actually deserve it after working hard and then becoming disabled.  I was talking with our local Judge here a while back about this very topic.  We joked about retiring early on the Jack Daniels plan since alcoholics can claim disability in some cases now.  How about drug addicts, people with eating disorders (both too much and too little as anorexia may be considered a mental illness), those who can't read or write getting disability?  Many of those types also then work cash jobs to stay under the radar or around here sell their government funded drugs.  Most would think those conditions should all be treatable, but not a crippled back or knee that is beyond repair.  Keep hobbling to work.


----------



## rockbot (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> Fun stuff Rocky! []
> I hope it happens real sudden like, cause I'm the worrying sort.
> Just one question.. how do we know it's gonna happen every 26k? Did the mastodons leave a pamphlet?


 
 The heavens is our clock Charlie. The deeper we look into space the father back in time we see.[]

 As far as knowing when a particle event will happen is like trying to plot the path of a tornado.[]

 Basically you need not worry.[]


----------



## bostaurus (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> Maybe we should force some of these individuals to get better educations, learn a trade, apprenticeships, something to learn valuable job skills. Give a man a chance not a check. This isn't my idea, Franklin Delano Roosevelt created it in the form of the C. C. C. camps. If you are going to pay them, put them to good use. We have a lot of crumbling infrastructure that could use some work, and a work force enslaved to government hand outs.


 

 I heard on the radio yesterday that we have almost 2,000,000 high skilled manufacturing jobs that are going unfilled because of the lack of skilled labor.  They said they were jobs that in the past were filled by people that had apprenticed or went to trade school.  The jobs are too complex nowadays to be filled by someone without the experience.  On the other hand there are few good training programs or apprenticeship opportunities.  Some of that 'stimulus' money or welfare funds might have been better spent on training programs.
  On an aside:  I know that Angola (the Louisiana prison) has training programs (seems kind of late).  One of the skills they teach is butchering and meat processing.  That always seemed rather odd to me.  Take the worst prisoners in Louisiana, give them knives and show them how to use them.  I was a State meat inspector for about a year before I found a better job.  One of the plants I trained in was a large meat processing plant in a bad part of Baton Rouge.   Most of the guys that worked on the line boning out hams were from the prison's butchering program.  The lady that was training me was the head inspector there.  One of the first things she told me was, "If you hear any shouting, see any fight, or hear a gun shot, run to your car, get in and lock the doors."  Unfortunately she was a piece of work too...telling me how she cheated on her taxes and time sheets, and yelling at me if I tried to correct her many mistakes on her paperwork.  I was very happy to find a better job.


----------



## GuntherHess (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

You're not forcing me to be educated, I have a constitutional right to be ignorant.


----------



## bostaurus (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> You're not forcing me to be educated, I have a constitutional right to be ignorant.


 Very funny...if it weren't so true.


----------



## morbious_fod (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> You're not forcing me to be educated, I have a constitutional right to be ignorant.


 
 The sad thing is I can't argue with that, I can shake my head and mumble to myself, but I can't argue that. LOL! That being said we shouldn't have to pay our hard earned money to keep you breathing. LOL! 

 Maybe a hard line approach would be justified, if you are a drain on society and show no signs of wanting to better yourself through education, or no desire to work, then we just start shooting people. A $2 bullet and a quick trip to the ovens is cheaper than trying to pay for your existence for seventy some odd years. I'd make one heck of an evil dictator...I coulda been a contender. Oh well back to my wage slavery.

 Yes folks, I'm kidding. Yet I am fairly certain that when the Illuminati finally decide to start thinning the herd, it won't be I, a producer, who will be first in line for the big ugly ax. Then again, it will most likely be those with the initiative to not depend upon the gubberment for their existence who will be killed first, because they may possibly rise up against their oppressors, the rest already march to the drum of whoever is paying their way. They do make up a very large percentage of the Democrat vote after all. LOL!


----------



## morbious_fod (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> The reason we can't afford to put people to work is all the liability costs.. every time one of those 'employees' gets a splinter they'd be screaming bloody murder and suing, suuiing, suuuuweeeing the poor innocent gubbament.


 
 You have a valid point there.


----------



## rockbot (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  bostaurus
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 The problem here is that the welfare people think they are entitled to it.
 Also the benefits are so good that they make more then a low to moderate paying job.
 FACTS:
 For a family of four this is whats available:
 County housing will cover up to $1,250
 food stamps: $1,000 month
 EBT card refill: $750 month
 Free medical coverage including dental
 Free car insurance   "I need to take my kids to school and the doctor, how am I going to get around?"
 Free college tuition if interested

 Hawaii has tried the UTOPIA route and the only thing that benefits is the politicians that get reelected.


----------



## cowseatmaize (Jun 16, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> The problem here is that the welfare people think they are entitled to it.
> Also the benefits are so good that they make more then a low to moderate paying job.
> FACTS:
> For a family of four this is whats available:
> ...


How much for a SWDM in his 50's and will they cover relocation?


----------



## rockbot (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 SWM well the deck is stacked against you but you can still get:
 $345 in EBT card refill
 $300 food stamps
 free medical and dental
 Got to live on the streets or at a hostel unfortunately[]


----------



## RedGinger (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I think some of those numbers are off, depending on your state.  For people with or without jobs, it is extremely difficult to get health insurance from your state, no dental included.  It's insane.


----------



## bostaurus (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> The problem here is that the welfare people think they are entitled to it.
> Also the benefits are so good that they make more then a low to moderate paying job.


 
 I have actually been told that by some folks on welfare.  I asked one person if they felt guilty taking all that when they were able to work.  They said they had no problem with it..if the government wanted to give them money they were fine with it.


----------



## RedGinger (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I guess you all are just hanging out with the wrong crowd, then.


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Is there a difference between EBT and foodstamps?


----------



## bostaurus (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> I guess you all are just hanging out with the wrong crowd, then.


 
 Maybe so.  It is very sad.  I know that just in my lifetime it has changed the social landscape of the small county my family is from in Alabama.  It is a way of life now for 2-3 generations for a large percentage of the population.  I would say that there are families that know nothing else but the family units fell apart long ago.  Very sad.


----------



## bostaurus (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

The particular person I was talking about earlier had been offered jobs but turned them down because she did not want to work.  I think, as others have said, there is a big difference in support for someone that can't find a job or can't work and those that have no desire to support themselves.


----------



## Plumbata (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  morbious_fod
> if you are a drain on society and show no signs of wanting to better yourself through education, or no desire to work, then we just start shooting people. A $2 bullet and a quick trip to the ovens is cheaper than trying to pay for your existence for seventy some odd years.


 
 Hey wait a second, why am _I_ Hitler? [8D]

 Ultimately, I think the necessary shift in social mentality needs to come through rigorous education and moral/philosophical training. Shooting them all dead would be a quick fix, but without an active mechanism for the instilling of a productive and positive mindset in the youth, one would never exhaust the supply of new unproductive human parasites to remove from circulation. With the priceless importance of a proper scholastic and social education in mind, it makes perfect sense that the Gov't in it's unparalleled brilliance is cutting education funding in favor of meddling with the affairs of other countries. God bless America. []


----------



## OsiaBoyce (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL: Plumbata
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
  Ok Pol Pot, can you speak to us w/out your superior intellect shining through. We get it your sooooooooooooooo smart, much smarter than us.

  Then again, your what 23. Why do the young feel so inferior and try to put up a smoke screen of words and pseudo intellect.


----------



## rockbot (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> I think some of those numbers are off, depending on your state.Â  For people with or without jobs, it is extremely difficult to get health insurance from your state, no dental included.Â  It's insane. Â


 
 You're probable right Red, Hawaii does have some of the best social programs in the nation, Obama's health plan is a model after Hawaii. You can not be denied coverage here if you are on welfare. Only if you work then you do not qualify that is why so many choose not to. If you work you have to pay for it.
 I have many friends and acquaintances that take advantage of this and work side jobs under the table so they can get free medical. 

 Sometimes I can't really blame them but it really cost the rest of us.[]


----------



## rockbot (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> Is there a difference between EBT and foodstamps?


 
 Yes OsiaBoyce, money is put into EBT card to buy both food and toiletries and such. You can with draw a certain amount of cash from the EBT card to pay for gas, eat out, cigs, booze etc. In Hawaii they do not issue food stamps any more.


----------



## cowseatmaize (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> SWM well the deck is stacked against you but you can still get:
> $345 in EBT card refill
> $300 food stamps
> free medical and dental
> Got to live on the streets or at a hostel unfortunately


That works for me but how about the beach instead. Can I be a surfer beach dude even if I don't actually surf? No big deal if it's the streets, I'll just go to the beach on my time off.[]


----------



## glass man (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

FROM ROCKBOT ON WHAT A FAMILKY OF FOUR CAN GET..





> FACTS:
> For a family of four this is whats available


 

 Not a fact here in GEORGIA...Like I said different states offer diferent things...MASS. has  good health care for the poor I HEAR.Here  if poor you wait till it is really bad then go to an emergency room that way overcharges the tax payers and they are a joke...a friend went to our local one and was diagnosed as haveing a stomach virus...went to a larger one in a nearby town and found out she had colon cancer...

 IF ANY OF YOU DON'T THINK YOU CAN'T BE DISABLED IN SECONDS,YOU CAN LOSE YOUR JOB,OR SO MANY OTHER THINGS ..THINK AGAIN!I PRAY MERCY AND HELP FOR ALL...REMEMBER..IT IS GOD THAT GIVES YOU THE STRENGTH TO DO WHAT YOU DO! This brings up the age old question..AM I MY BROTHER'S KEEPER?

 TO MUCH THAT IS GIVEN MUCH WILL BE REQUIRED!!!

 I hope and pray all on here  that GOD will bless!! Take nothing for granted...JAMIE


----------



## glass man (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Not that I want to put our business out on here,but so some maybe can understand that not all have it made...Nina gets 12,000 a year...we get from 45 bucks to 100 a month food stamps..Nina gets  some health help  with medicare...which some want to get rid of..the ones that want to give "voucers" instead are rich azzed politicians that have the best health care possible  and who pays for that??

 The food stamps we get vary at the whim of who knows who....people cheering about programs being gotten rid of encourages the powers that be to make it worse.....

 If it makes any feel good that help is taken away...then cheer on...but if it happens to you then you will feel you don't deserve to be treated that way! NO ONE ON HERE ARE NO BETTER THEN NINA OR I!!!


----------



## cyberdigger (Jun 17, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Jamie, you and Nina are a great example of why I can't say we should just stop giving government aid to law-abiding needy citizens.
 I never took, and with God's blessing I never will.. it makes me proud to be part of a place that takes care of its people.
 What really bothers me is the people who abuse it, because there are so many of them, it throws the whole system out of whack. 
 I wish people in general would just not be so damn irresponsible.


----------



## Penn Digger (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Jamie,

 Where's your fair share?  You deserve it?

 Drunks and drug addicts will get it I suppose?

 PD


----------



## rockbot (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> Jamie, you and Nina are a great example of why I can't say we should just stop giving government aid to law-abiding needy citizens.
> I never took, and with God's blessing I never will.. it makes me proud to be part of a place that takes care of its people.
> ...


 
 That is the truth Charlie. I have some good decent friends that need help and I am glad that they have a way to get it. 
 The problem is the abuse. If we could get a handle on that there would be so much more available to those that really need it.

 When I go to the store and I see women covered in tattoo's and  wearing three or four gold Hawaiian bracelet on their arm and they whip out the 
 EBT card it makes my head spin. I see some of the old neighborhood guys cruising on their $20,000 dollar Harley's and they go home to their
 girl friends (old ladies) house (county housing) my head spins.

 Is it wrong to think that if you got money for tattoo's, gold bracelets and Harley motorcycles you are not having too hard a time?

 I nor anyone in my family has any thing like that but my hard earned taxes is paying for others too..


----------



## Plumbata (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  glass man
> I WILL BE GLAD TO PEE ON ANY OF THEM FOR MY DRUG TEST!! JAMIE


 
 Damn straight Jamie, if I were in your shoes I would happily pee on them too if they asked for a drug test haha. []



> ORIGINAL:  morbious_fod
> Maybe we should force some of these individuals to get better educations, learn a trade, apprenticeships, something to learn valuable job skills. Give a man a chance not a check. This isn't my idea, Franklin Delano Roosevelt created it in the form of the C. C. C. camps. If you are going to pay them, put them to good use. We have a lot of crumbling infrastructure that could use some work, and a work force enslaved to government hand outs.


 
 Realistically, this would be one of the only sustainable ways to preserve the system in the long-term, right? Liability waivers could be drafted and used to help prevent the lawsuits suggested by cyberchuck and then the potential workforce could be set in motion completing simple but necessary tasks. Clearing of storm-drain blockages, painting and preserving of important metal infrastructure, litter collection and landscape beautification conducted by those without the stamina for harder work, and I'd especially like to see a road-crew specifically outfitted to repair cracks and fill small holes in roads. Something as simple as 3 welfare-recipient workers, a wheelbarrow, a few cones and reflective vests, and 3 or 4 bags of cold-patch asphalt would be relatively cheap, and the preventative maintenance provided would easily pay itself off very quickly. Hell, I'd have a blast doing that job if I wasn't already self-employed!



> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> Ok Pol Pot, can you speak to us w/out  your superior intellect shining through. We get it your  sooooooooooooooo smart, much smarter than us.
> 
> Then again, your what 23. Why do the young feel so inferior and try to put up a smoke screen of words and pseudo intellect.


 
  It is quite clear that you have been trolling this forum for a few days,  but I would like to know why you find it necessary to lash out? Did  something happen in your family? Have the recent inopportune forum  deaths replaced the last vestiges of positivity in your mind with  critical cynicism?

  I am not attempting to assert superiority of any sort. I type the way I  type and talk the way I talk. I am who I am, and am neither ashamed nor  embarrassed of my strengths or weaknesses. If you don't like me that is your problem, not mine. Your utterly erroneous  interpretation of these generally lighthearted, extemporaneous messages  of mine as representing evidence of an inferiority complex or as compensation for  perceived insufficiency reveals nothing but your own sense of personal  inadequacy, whatever it is derived from. Why do the old feel so  threatened by the young, I could ask?

  Hopefully, as can be easily imagined, you have just been feeling  particularly devilish lately and are posting these verbal goads with an  impish grin, laughing to yourself about how many people you can piss-off  or get riled-up with a few keystrokes.


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## mr.fred (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Plum!---your Play on words was well  written[]---you hit the nail right on the head with that one[sm=lol.gif][sm=tongue.gif].


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## surfaceone (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

*Well done, Plum!*


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## Plumbata (Jun 18, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Uhh, thanks guys but there is no need to encourage me, I don't look good with an over-inflated head.

 Besides surf, I couldn't have done it without your trusty decoder ring! []


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## glass man (Jun 19, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Yep ..like I said each state have different programs...some give alot some little...Here in the South we have long been some of the poorer states and  we get little help in our state...food stamps...that is it...we are thankful for that!We do or did get some help with heating..but the Republicans are trying to cut back or out on everything....

 Our congressman had a town hall meeting here and in front of all he said he would get me help..he is a doc. as well as a congressman..his chief of staff made a big show in front of all getting the info...said to call..we did and was told "WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO CHANGE THE LAW!!!???HE is a congressman...ain't that what they do???OH WELL!

 I thank those for the kind remars directed to NINA and me.I started putting into the system in 1970  working in the summer with my dad...by 72 I was working full time in a factory for 7 years,after that working with adolelcents with behavior troubles...and from 85-2002 was a house painter ...in 98 started working for myself...was starting to do good when in 2000 got diabeties and complications followed...have colitis and spastic colon too ...2002 could no longer work..didn't work the right quarters the last 5 years for disability and NINA makes 10 bucks too much for me to get ssi...I ain't whining..just want folks to know I have worked and worked hard...stuff happens..never made much in my life.

 Please just realise  I believe most that get help should get it...seems some politicians want to point out the butt holes to give less or stop helping any at all...yet corporations get way more welfare then all the poor put together...

 We ain't asking for hand outs we feel we are just getting alittle back we put in all those years...

 SO MANY HAVE HELPED NINA AND I ON HERE AND YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THE TEARS OF JOY YOU GAVE US!

 I  got to keep my bottle collection intact at least for awhile because of yall...it is down to about 1/4th of what I did have...so glad we bought when we had the money...selling things we bought has seen us through some bad times.

 Also the bottles diff. members sent us will not be sold ..regardless..it is my collection of love...

 GOD BLESS YOU ALL...Hope things will change..it would be so cool to get some new old bottles again..I also got 3000+ records from the 60s and 70s mainly...some very collectable...not as easy to sell as bottles,but maybe when I need to sell them I can find some one close enough by to sell them all to!

 WE LOVE YALL ..GOD BLESS YOU ALL..IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN GOD THEN SEND SOME POSITIVE THOUGHTS OUR WAY IF YOU BELIEVE IN THAT!

 Some time I feel like the KENNY from SOUTH PARK ON ABN![] Like my pop used to say "it will all come out in the wash"!JAMIE


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## Penn Digger (Jun 19, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Good post Jamie.

 Regards,

 PD


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## rockbot (Jun 19, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I wish the best for you and Nina as well. God Bless!

 Rocky


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## morbious_fod (Jun 19, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

To answer your question Jamie, am I my brother's keeper? I help those who help themselves, or at least try. I will bend over backwards to help the handicapped, elderly, and any other person who is in true need of help, but if you think I feel sorry for some lazy white trash piece of crap who lives in his welfare mother's basement in Buchanan County, VA sucking down Mountain Dew, smoking pot, eating Cheetos, and playing x-box, think again.

 You are very correct about the politicians, if one of them had the guts in Washington to even go as far as Clinton did to cut back on the welfare roles, then I be amazed. Maybe it will finally happen when the population of the welfare class reaches 60 percent, or 70 percent. The system is broken, and its not going to get fixed until someone takes the unpopular stand, but with nearly fifty percent of the country on some type of entitlement program that isn't going to happen. Far too many voters out there eating the gubberment pie and snarling every time someone suggest that maybe they shouldn't. 

 Ask not what you can do for your country, ask what your country can do for you. Seems to be the new American Way. Kennedy would have been ashamed if he saw the state of affairs today.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 19, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I don't understand why this isn't already so perfectly obvious to everyone, and I feel like a dork saying it because it's so completely, totally obvious, but here goes: the government is not getting as much money as it spends. This is.. ..good or bad? ..anyone.. Bueller?? ..it is... B A D ..


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## Penn Digger (Jun 20, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Morb,

 50% of the country on some sort of entitlement?  Not trying to pick, but where did you get this number?  Please advise as I would like to use the source if it can be substantiated.

 PD


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## morbious_fod (Jun 20, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

"Slightly over half of all Americans â€” 52.6 percent â€” now receive  significant income from government programs, according to an analysis by  Gary Shilling, an economist  in Springfield, N.J. Thatâ€™s up from 49.4 percent in 2000 and far above  the 28.3 percent of Americans in 1950. If the trend continues, the  percentage could rise within ten years to pass 55 percent, where it  stood in 1980 on the eve of Presidentâ€™s Reaganâ€™s move to scale back the  size of government. That two-decade shrink-the-government trend now appears over, if for  no other reason than demographics. The aging baby-boomer generation is  poised to receive big payments from Social Security and government healthcare programs. . . . Mr. Shillingâ€™s analysis found that about 1 in 5 Americans hold a  government job or a job reliant on federal spending. A similar number  receive Social Security or a government pension. About 19 million others  get food stamps, 2 million get subsidized housing, and 5 million get education grants. For all these categories, Mr. Shilling counted dependents as well as the direct recipients of government income"-Christian Science Monitor

 Actually I misquoted what the represented. It is actually the percentage of people who depend upon the government for their livelihood, including federal jobs. BTW this was in 2007, I'm sure the numbers have changed since President Obama took over. There's no mention of welfare in the break down either.

 "Wow that censorship component on this site is just getting stupid."


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## morbious_fod (Jun 20, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I don't understand why this isn't already so perfectly obvious to everyone, and I feel like a dork saying it because it's so completely, totally obvious, but here goes: the government is not getting as much money as it spends. This is.. ..good or bad? ..anyone.. Bueller?? ..it is... B A D ..


 
 Acording to this ap article about 47 percent paid no taxes in 2009. The reality if the situation is that not only did 47 percent, mostly the lesser income levels, but I'd like to see the numbers of those who also received earned income credits on top of not paying any taxes. A guy I work with got all of his taxes back and received the earned income credits on his two kids, he got back $7000 if memory serves to my measly two thousand. I ended up paying two thousand and some dollars to the gubberment. That's our biggest problem, we are giving out welfare in the form of earned income credits, and calling it a refund. The craziest thing of all is the name of these credits, they didn't earn any of this money.

 We need to cut spending money that we don't have, pure and simple.

 http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nearly-half-of-US-households-apf-1105567323.html?x=0&.v=1


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 20, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

OK, here's some controversy. 
 The big problem is we declare war, or usually don't, and we spend billions on weapons. Only millions are pumped into the economy. Then spend billions more for "reconstruction". 
 The cost of war and reconstruction is always more because we never get anything in return.
 Japan became the superpower it is because of us, same with Germany.
 Yes, this is totally oversimplified but what happened to the good old days? Reap the spoil's of war I say. 
 Oil shortage solved.


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## morbious_fod (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I agree. Whatever happened to that idea the Bush Administration had about recouping some of the costs for the Iraq war in oil? His haters were always screaming that it was a war for oil, but as far as I have seen we haven't seen any oil out of this war, so that argument is void.

 It does seem so odd that we put so much in interfering in other people's business only to have to fix what we blow apart.


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> Whatever happened to that idea the Bush Administration had about recouping some of the costs for the Iraq war in oil?


Which one?


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## GuntherHess (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> The cost of war and reconstruction is always more because we never get anything in return.
> Japan became the superpower it is because of us, same with Germany.
> Yes, this is totally oversimplified but what happened to the good old days? Reap the spoil's of war


 
 History doesnt reflect your conclusions.
 Germany was basically raped after WWI , was a total mess spawning Hitler and WWII. 
 We learned our lesson and rebuilt Germany after WWII.
 There is no question that was a better plan.
 A stable Europe was a huge benefit to the USA.


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## morbious_fod (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Which one were the Anti-War/Bush idiots screaming it was a war for oil? The second one of course. I don't remember there being that much hatred toward Bush senior.


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## morbious_fod (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 You have a point there, and it is most likely the reason we started doing that in the first place.


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## cowseatmaize (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I can't totally agree. Hitler was spawned during the same depression we and much of the world had. It was just a bad time and people thought he could make it right.


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## cyberdigger (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

We paid for the reconstruction of Japan and Germany.. and much of Western Europe.. and then South Korea.. to stop the spread of communism. We're doing it now to stop islamic militants..


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## blade (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

I like frogs !


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## cyberdigger (Jun 21, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

How the heck not?? They like you too..


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## cyberdigger (Jun 22, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

HI  ..any questions??


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## andy volkerts (Jun 27, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

[]I like frogs too!! got about eighty five o the little fellers about the house, glass, ceramic, plastic, wood, straw,metal,chalk.........[][][]


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## SAbottles (Jun 27, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Hi, had a "funny" to add about scrounging off welfare, but stuck it in the wrong thread - it's under "We won't stand up ...etc" , Sigh, must have got up too early this morning ![]


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## Wangan (Jun 29, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*



> ORIGINAL:  morbious_fod
> 
> It does seem so odd that we put so much in interfering in other people's business only to have to fix what we blow apart.


 War is money.In time of war,many things are just O.K.ed and not questioned.That is why ,(just one),company that I heard about got caught selling .25 cent washers to the military for $250 apiece.It is also easy to say you need to spend more than it costs and keep the rest.A sharp pencil works wonders.It used to be this country had morals and the corporate crooks would get the whistle blown on them but now they are all in it together and cover each others back,like Congress.Its all about "whats in it for me",just the reverse of JFK`s "Ask not what your country can do for you"...

 Graft and corruption have always been,but not as big as now.


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## Penn Digger (Jul 1, 2011)

*RE: Welfare and drugs*

Back on topic, I read in the news today that Pennsylvania's sweeping welfare reform bill has now passed both the state Senate and House.  Just waiting for the Governor to sign.  This bill is aimed at cutting $400 million out of PA's $10.5 billion welfare budget by giving the state more powers to fight waste, fraud and abuse.  Last I knew it included drug testing those on assistance who had ANY drug history.  Hope more states will follow what Florida and PA are trying to do.


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