# So are rich paying their fair share?



## rockbot (Sep 21, 2011)

Hmm...
 I'm so confused... is this administration confused too?

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/20/obama-buffett-rich-taxes_n_971388.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cnetscape%7Cdl3%7Csec1_lnk2%7C97521


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## andy volkerts (Sep 21, 2011)

[8D] Some do , others don't. What we need is a flat tax, so everybody pays the same percentage, no matter how much they earn, no loopholes or other garbage..........


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## LtlBtl (Sep 21, 2011)

The uber rich need to be paying more. I saw it up close and the amount of money that I paid in taxes in a year was equivalent to two less purse purchases that month.
 I was a butler/houseman for a woman. The wealth was freakin obcene. The argument at the house was that the rich kept the economy going- we had contractors there constantly, all the local businesses the house supported, the  private jets, the 25,000 in purses for the new season, etc. Why should she have to pay more? 
 Because. Would she have really missed the 50,000 in new taxes that she would have to pay? She would n't have said" well now i can't buy new Manolo Blahnos for the season" or 'I can't order the Aston Martin now"
 Warren Buffett is correct. let's hope that Washington gets it and the divide doesn't grow deeper. I don't think we are far from the robber barons and all out class warfare.


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## morbious_fod (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm so sick of the buzzword "fair" being thrown around so much in this administration. There is no such thing as fair, because fair is a relative term. If you take more from one group only to give it to another, the receiving party feels that's fair; however, the party who's money has been taken isn't going to feel that they have been dealt with fairly at all. Fair is a lie, and a cover for good old fashioned envy because someone who isn't "you" has more than "you", doesn't matter if you didn't work for it and in reality don't deserve it, "you" just want your "fair share". You doesn't describe any one individual so don't get tore up by it's use.

 Here's a good example of how "fair" in our tax system really isn't. On my shift there are two people, me and the laser operator, I make about a dollar more than he does an hour, I paid over four thousand dollars in taxes last year, and received a refund of around fourteen hundred back. I know that his take out rate is lower than mine, so he might have paid three thousand in, but due to his having two kids, and getting the (un)earned income credit he received nearly seven thousand back as a refund. Not only did he not pay any taxes, the government paid him four thousand dollars more, and we wonder why our debt is through the roof. 

 These are the same people who are screaming that the rich should pay their fair share, this money has to be coming from somewhere folks, and apparently half the population doesn't pay their fair share, and it's the lower half. What do you want to bet that the majority of those folks also received more than they paid to the government as well, so not only are they already not paying into the system, they are now a draw upon the system. Maybe it's time to get rid of the (un)earned income welfare credit. Heck if I had kids I would have been eligible for it myself last year even with my making $35,000 gross. Heck the upper limit on this program is $43,352.00 gross income. That's quite a chunk of change from my prospective, and I'm sure a great many others.

 Maybe everybody should pay their fair share.


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## rockbot (Sep 21, 2011)

I'm just baffled that our government can lie to us so easily and with a straight face. They are the ones creating animosity in this country. The facts are the facts.

 If you look at the numbers they tell the truth. I guess the truth is not what the left is looking for.

 In the end we will all be paying more taxes and thats what the government really wants.




 http://robertringer.com/roberts-insights/president-pinocchio-at-it-again/


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## glass man (Sep 21, 2011)

This is a easy question...NO![] JAMIE


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## rockbot (Sep 21, 2011)

I think its how Obama ask the question that makes it a lie.

 Why don't they just say... " The wealthy in this country pays 70% of the taxes, but can they afford to pay more?"
 "HELL YA"


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## surfaceone (Sep 22, 2011)

Hey Tony,

 President Obama is lost, at odds with himself, and just plain wrong about nearly everything.

 "In an August 5, 2009, interview on NBC News, Obama said that:

 â€œThe last thing you want to do is raise taxes in the middle of a recession, because that would just suck up, take more demand out of the economy and put businesses in a further hole.â€ Watch the Video here.

 His "fairness" is totally lacking.. He's now pursuing the worst kind of demagogic class warfare. Employers, actual job creators, do not need further uncertainty, increased costs of doing business, and increased tax liability.

Some good analysis here.


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## cyberdigger (Sep 22, 2011)

He's like the new Jimmy...


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## glass man (Sep 22, 2011)

Love the  new way of putting a old thought...the super rich are the "JOB CREATERS"!![] We should not raise they taxes because of this..now let us think back how long they had the bush tax cuts and then look at how jobs went down,down,afterwards...now when clinton raised them jobs were created...

 with the logic that give the rich tax breaks and they will create jobs then by now we should have jobs out the ...but we don't ..obvious wrong thinking..but so many middle class takes up for the super rich  [why? do they really believe some day they will really join their ranks when the cards are being more and more stacked against them by the rich/corperations?]  throw logic out the window and qoute whatever they hear on fox news..i watch it i know each talking line that is coming...


 keep thinking like this and the middle class will join the ranks of the poor because of it...JOB CREATORS??? YES BUT NOT IN USA!! SAME OLE SAME OLE..but lets don't hear no "CLASS WARFARE" only class warfare i see is on the poor and middle class...This term reminds me of ronnie raygun and "I HAD TO FIGHT THEM OLE PROTECTIONISTS EVERYDAY"..he told a crowd in JAPAN that he got 2 million bucks to talk too....protectionism?? thanks to ronnie's heroic fight the South lost it's textile jobs to JAPAN,,JAMIE


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## rockbot (Sep 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  glass man
> 
> Love the  new way of putting a old thought...the super rich are the "JOB CREATERS"!![] We should not raise they taxes because of this..now let us think back how long they had the bush tax cuts and then look at how jobs went down,down,afterwards...now when clinton raised them jobs were created...
> 
> ...


 
 Hi Jamie,
 A lot of the problem is due to the fact that the wealthy aren't spending their money right now. I have several wealthy friends and they are sitting idol since Obama was elected. They are using their extra income to buy and hoard stuff like gold, silver, rare coins etc. Their extra income is not being spent on things that can benefit our economy.

 Some examples are as follows.

 My good friend has a fishing boat and we would go out at least once a month. We buy fuel, ice, bait, fishing gear and all the up keep and maintenance cost money. The local economy benefits from this activity. Now lucky if we go out once a year.

 My other friend has a large estate and they had a house keeper, landscaper and I do side work in carpentry so I was doing a lot of work for them. All this activity was cut out after Obama was elected. 

 You see, all the uncertainty that this administration brought to the White House has brought for lack of the right word, Animosity to the classes. I'm afraid that the wealthy are kind a like throwing a tantrum and thus " punishing" us.

 I have mixed feelings about this cause it does prove that the wealthy can control this country and I thought that is what the liberals have been harping about isn't it? 

 People with money spend money and if they don't, well you see what is happening.


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## glass man (Sep 22, 2011)

THE RICH AREN'T SPENDING THEY MONEY?? Well I have long heard many of them are tight wads,but never knew they got to the point they didn't spend money...WOW!  That was a problen during the DEPRESION ,but FDR made them turn some of it loose...most all had moved to a Georgia Island to get away from the poor and starvin cause the poor and starvin were fed up[good pun huh?no?well I try!] with them and the who who's of the rich of the day were getting a bit afraid of them...

 Good people can turn bad when their kids are hungry..
 JAMIE


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## andy volkerts (Sep 22, 2011)

Finally!! Somebody is gettin it right!


> ORIGINAL:  glass man
> 
> Love the  new way of putting a old thought...the super rich are the "JOB CREATERS"!![] We should not raise they taxes because of this..now let us think back how long they had the bush tax cuts and then look at how jobs went down,down,afterwards...now when clinton raised them jobs were created...
> 
> ...


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## rockbot (Sep 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkerts
> 
> Finally!! Somebody is gettin it right!
> 
> ...


 
 Hey Andy, Jamie, I would like to hear your side of what is "getting it right"?

 If your guys logic is correct how come socialist Europe is crashing and burning as we speak?

 Aren't they the model of the liberals?

 Doesn't seem like taxing people at a higher rate has helped their economy.

 Any thoughts?

 I appreciate all views and enjoy in our conversation guys. Please don't take me for a hard/wise ars or anything like that.
 I learned long ago that everyone has something to offer and I really do enjoy trying to understand peoples situations and points of view. Rock on!


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## cyberdigger (Sep 22, 2011)

Remember this poster?? []


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## rockbot (Sep 22, 2011)

I do remember this one![]


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## glass man (Sep 22, 2011)

What is happining in Europe is a barometer of what is happinin here?

 Don't gotta be! Lets be "OLE PROTECTIONEST" to a point!Lets take care of the USA for a change..then we will help out the rest of the world!

 CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME!WHY NOT START WHAT THIS PRES. WANTS?Infrastucture at home..A thing that helped save us out of the GREAT DEPRESSION! It  may take GOV. money to do[Cause the great patriotic super rich/corperations won't give for this!..yet they don't mind using the roads,firefighters,police that the masses fund!]  but we put millions to work on infratructure then they will have money to spend by the millons..not just the rich by the thousands were I have already heard they will not spend now!!

 My pop was helped by the CCC and his family was helped by the money he sent home!% bucks for him 25 for his family..alot of money then when you could rent a house for 3 dollars a month!

 He paid it back by getting into the Army in 1940 and fighting from Africa to Germany..got a purple heart..worked till he was 80 years old!!THESE ARE THE KIND OF AMERICANS I AM TALKIN BOUT NOT SOME OVER PRICED,CODDLED,"DON'T RAISE MY TAXES ARE WE WILL HOLD THE COUNTRY  HOSTAGES RICH FOLK"!!

 BETTER GET A CLUE..YOU THINK THE RICH CARE ABOUT THE MASSES?  Unless you are one of the rich whether you like it are not you are one of "THE MASSES"! THE MASSES MAKE UP AMERICA!!NOT THE FEW THOUSANDS! Trust me with a heart beat you can become homeless and wonder how you got that way...get cancer for instance[GOD FORBID] or one of your loved ones and see how far your money,insurence will go..these people are heartless!I HAVE SEEN IT!!The insurence company you have will decide what they will or not pay for much to your surprise...[my neighbor for instance has cancer..her 1st chemo treatment was 52,000 dollars!Each one is 28,000..needless to say she is in debt !!  of couse she had no insurence[would they have paid this any how?] She was a hard worker..but she had been out of work for three years!!NOT HER FAUGHT..THE RICH SENT GA. JOBS AWAY AWAY AWAY FROM DIXIE!! Nina paid into a disability insurence for years with taco bell where she was such a great manager she made it to the taco bell national magazine..yet when she slipped and hurt herself really bad[now her spine is degenerating!]  She got one check out of the company that she had paid years into after that they said according to their doctors she could work and would pay no more!This company was in cal...we are in Ga. none of their doctors never even seen her!Why the heck ain't people mad at the greed of it all..instaed of putting it on the poor/middle class?

 Instead we have the middle class takin up for the rich!!WHY!! THEY HAVE NEVER HELPED US AND NEVER WILL!!
 JAMIE


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## cyberdigger (Sep 22, 2011)

> What is happining in Europe is a barometer of what is happinin here?


 
 Actually, Europe is more complicated than the USA.. in some ways they are in better shape than we are, at least many of the EU nations in trouble are getting around to implementing painful austerity measures, despite the protests and strikes.. Americans will have none of that. ..not yet, not until it all comes crashing down for real, probably.. the 2 party system is not always the most effective democratic model..


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## Poison_Us (Sep 22, 2011)

And this is exactly how we feel until one of us hits the lotto.  LOL

 I like how they use "Rich" so loosely.   I mean, this too is a relative term.  What is considered rich?  Ask 10 people and get 10 different answers.  To just say "the rich" can mean anyone with more money than you.  Today, if you  make $80K a year, your still middle class.    I like the flat tax idea.  That would also eliminate having to do taxes every year and cut back on the need for the IRS.


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## andy volkerts (Sep 22, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 [8D][8D] What You have seemed to have forgotten is that our greedy banks started this mess by grouping bad securities together with good ones and sellin em to other banks, including those in Europe. And the foulest deed of all is when that s.o.b. outfit standard and poors( the same downgrading debacle causing twerps) rated said secutities as AAA when they were at best CCC.  That is why Europe AND We are in such bad shape.... AND WHO runs the banks......the greedy rich ceos who were paid and are still being paid mega bucks to swindle the rest of the world. AND WORSE still IS THAT THEY ARE GETTIN AWAY WITH IT.  Because our wimpy prez and our lame ass govt wont put the sobs in jail where they all belong.........ok rant over..........Andy


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 22, 2011)

Politics again, huh? 
 The fact is we've been digging this hole for a decade or more. Recessions and depressions don't happen overnight and the myth of the shoeshine guy and the rich guy probably didn't happen and cause the stock market crash of '29.
 Every politician inherits a problem and no one is happy when it isn't fixed overnight.


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## baltbottles (Sep 22, 2011)

Lets see all the problems in this country......

 1. The federal reserve owns about 2.2 trillion of the national debt. So we pay ourselves interest... Makes no sense to me...
 2. We have a currency that is just worthless paper not backed by anything but the governments good word and credit rating. Allowing inflation to run wild.
 3. We have a chaotic tax system of taxes on taxes with deductions and exemptions that no one really understands. And its easy to get around paying what you really owe.
 4.Free trade agreements that don't allow domestically produced goods to compete at market.
 5. Have allowed corporations to send huge numbers of jobs over seas without creating new jobs here.
 6. Have allowed the federal government to become too large with no real public over site.
 7. Have allowed two political parties to divide the public. This has created a situation where nothing can really be changed.

 This list could go on for quite sometime.

 But in all reality drastic change to how this country is governed is what is needed. Simple taxes with no way to get out of paying them. A good solid backed currency. Huge tariffs on imported goods giving the opertunity for domestic production to compete. And incentives for corporations to create jobs here (perhaps as a tax break based on the number of employees a corperation has in America) The more employees the lower your corporation will be taxed.

 Come on people this was a great country put all our petty religious, racial and economic differences aside and lets make America great again.

 Chris


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## andy volkerts (Sep 22, 2011)

well said


> ORIGINAL:  baltbottles
> 
> Lets see all the problems in this country......
> 
> ...


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 22, 2011)

Were almost a communist country anyway so why worry.
 "As of May 2011 the largest single holder of U.S. government debt was  China, with 36 percent of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities (16%  of total US public debt).
FROM


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## andy volkerts (Sep 22, 2011)

Doesn't make us a communist country at all. just good salesman to foist off all that debt.....


> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> Were almost a communist country anyway so why worry.
> "As of May 2011 the largest single holder of U.S. government debt was  China, with 36 percent of all foreign-held U.S. Treasury securities (16%  of total US public debt).
> FROM


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## rockbot (Sep 22, 2011)

Great comments gang! 

 I know we all love this great Country and no matter what it still is the best place to be. 


 Can we do things better? you bet. 

 How do we get these messages across to our leaders and across political boundaries? 

 Would a viable third party work or would that just add another layer of fill?


 What I see locally here in Hawaii is that us the local community has no voice. Currently I've been fighting
 several battles and I am a board member in our community group. Sending Emails to local government
 agences, political staff, etc in regards to government administrative rule changes that affect our community 
 never get any responses. Its as if the Government doesn't want to or care to hear our voice.
 These agencies like the Clean Air Branch etc don't even want to give us the time of day. 

 What is happening? 

 They are paid by our tax dollars to provide a service to us.


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## andy volkerts (Sep 23, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> Great comments gang!
> 
> ...


 [8D] They are too busy doing there self serving bullsh__ to care about a few constituents


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## LtlBtl (Sep 23, 2011)

There are rich and there are RICH. It's the second that I think could be doing more. When your net worth is in the 100s of millions, seriously, does 100,000 matter?
 The house i worked in, it didn't. That was a purchase at Christie's for another piece of whatever she liked in that auction. Still would have made it if  she had to pay that more in taxes. 
 The basics in life are sort of fixed- we all spend about the same on food, utilities, gas. Yeah, you can shop at Whole Foods or Walmart but it's still close. The "poor" spend a higher percentage of income on the basics. When you can spend 1000 a month on dry cleaning, your basics are either very skewed or you have more dollars than sense. Probably both.
 Very few of the super rich have truly earned it themselves. Their grandaddy's survived the depression. They marry into each other's wealth. Their children do the same. The wealth is perpetuated.


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## harold (Sep 23, 2011)

FIRST....lets get all the people in govt to pay their taxes.  What a joke.  Sure they will tax the rich but the boy who would be king people will not pay theirs.


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## rockbot (Sep 23, 2011)

Here is a classic example of the super rich, living on inherited money.[]

 What a life. Marry money, become a politician, sail your yacht, campaign for the poor and tax evasion until he gets called out on it.

 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/23/john-kerry-saves-500000-b_n_656985.html


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## LtlBtl (Sep 23, 2011)

Ms. Heinz- I 'm from Pgh-she'll always be that- was one THE most gracious classy people I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. She has done so much for this city's arts and history communities. 
 Still, a great example of how the wealthy keep it. They have the accountants to find the loopholes.


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## surfaceone (Sep 25, 2011)

> Very few of the super rich have truly earned it themselves. Their grandaddy's survived the depression. They marry into each other's wealth. Their children do the same. The wealth is perpetuated.


 
 Hey LtlBtl,

 Quite the Bolshevik perspective, you have there. I hope you have pursued a career change.

 Lets have a look at just the Top 10 of Forbes' List of 400. Seems the facts don't support your opinion too much.

 Anyone that has amassed these kind of fortunes, and managed to hold on to one, even if it was (gasp) inherited has worked mightily to do so. Either that, or they have employed competent people to manage their resources.

 These people are investors. They, or their advisors seek out investments that will earn them good returns. That could be American businesses. They cannot be fond of a Tax policy that singles them out.

 The Obama administration makes them nervous. They probably are not all patting Warren Buffet on the back, either. If you believe the spin on President Obama's Tax the Evil Rich notion, you probably think that there are not numerous "trickle down" taxes included that may indeed affect you. Won't that be grand.

 Raising taxes in an economic climate like today's is profoundly ill advised. The downgrade by S&P and the negative projections from the IMF are dramatic economic votes of NO Confidence in the Obama Administration. President Obama and his advisers are floundering about while Wall Street burns.


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## RedGinger (Sep 26, 2011)

I have my opinions, but it's not worth my time to get into this stupid conversation.  Some people will never get it.  Maybe when you're poor and in ill health, some of you will understand. The end.


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## LtlBtl (Sep 26, 2011)

Definitely made a career change. Should have been a dream job-driving Ms. Daisy in Jags and Mercedes, taking care of  1  room w/in excess of 15 mil in antiques and art. One of a few rooms on that scale. After having to clean a pond for the second time in a week in dress clothes at the "end" of my day(was there ever?) so she could stroll by w/friends and not have a leaf floating, i needed to move on.
 I have actually been described as a capitalistic hippie. Making tons of money and doing something positive for the environment and humanity do not have to be mutually exclusive. I have put quite a few connect the dot business deals together for companies that made them good money, great press and good vibes.
 After years and years of working high end events, seeing the same people at weddings, engagement parties, benefits, etc., the money stayed with the money. They grew up at same country clubs, private schools and summers at the shores.
 I have no beef with being stupid f'ing rich. Neither with wanting to keep it. Only with avoiding sharing unless you get your name in society section of paper.


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