# C. 1875 Colourful Labeled Ale



## Robby Raccoon (Nov 22, 2017)

C. 1875 Wickes' Celebrated Red Seal Sparkling Ale.
I really had a devil of a time trying to put a date on this bottle. 
At first I couldn't find info on the company, so I went by the label manufacturer. 
But, two modern online sources and two 1800s directories each had conflicting information. 

The first modern source detailing the company had fine grammar, but the author's placement of one particular word ('_subsequently'_) was poorly executed so that it could have meant two totally different things (putting the Crump Label Co. on either side of 1878. So that wasn't of much use. 
Thus, I did more detailed research using documents scanned to be online and found that, in general, all that could be said of their conflicting information is that the Crump Label Press (manufacturer name on label) was around in 1874 and 1888 where it changed names before being bought out in 1890 and again in 1891, but it may have properly went to Crump Label Co. in 1879 till 1881 or 1882 (sources differ). 
The factory in New York burned down on 4 July 1877 by 'spontaneous combustion', according to one period source.

After a head-ache in trying to figure out the Crump Label Press, settling with the Library of Congress being correct (1874), I decided to investigate the address under various searches in Google Books and found a garbled transcription of an 1875 New York directory where Wickes' & Co. was present as a bottler at 426 Atlantic Avenue, Brooklyn (as shown on label). 

I've always been confused on this type of base, though. What is that dot?  As in, what caused it? 
Also, why is my olive-amber bottle milky-blue in the base? Bottle is uneven at the base and sits at an angle. 

Applied double collar. 
As one final note of interest, this bottle is mentioned in the 1981 book, Behind the Seawall: Historical Archaeology along the San Francisco Waterfront. 
I saw it on eBay before, liked it, but hated the price. After no one bought it, the seller put it in a bidding auction, and you know the rest. MUCH better price! ʕ•͡ᴥ•ʔ


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## historic-antiques (Nov 22, 2017)

From what I know, the dot is a type of pontil mark, can't remember the exact name, but it does indicate the bottle is from around the year you indicated, maybe older.


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## RelicRaker (Nov 22, 2017)

Beauty of a bottle. And thanks for researching the backstory.


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## andy volkerts (Nov 22, 2017)

Hi Bear!! long time no see, I have been on a hiatus from bottle collecting. as yu know I haven't been on here for a long time. its good to be back.  Your bottle is from 1870 thru 1880 generally, could be a bit earlier or later, but not much. the dimple or button on the bottom is NOT a pontil, it was an orientation device to make the gather fit in the mold better, not move around as it was being blown, or so the explanation goes. The milky blue color is diffusion thru the glass and is not really a color IN the glass. Nice bottle, and I am happy you got it for a decent price!!


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## iggyworf (Nov 23, 2017)

Very nice!     Welcome back Andy!


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## nhpharm (Nov 23, 2017)

The bluish color is called glass gall.  Often seen on older British blackglass bottles.  Wonderful bottle.  The bottle itself is British.


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## andy volkerts (Nov 23, 2017)

Thanks Iggy, I went thru a bad stage in life for awhile, and had to get my head straight, its good to be back thanks for the welcome!  





iggyworf said:


> Very nice!     Welcome back Andy!


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## botlguy (Nov 23, 2017)

I'll add my "Welcome Back Andy" to the group. Obviously you have been missed, especially by us Westerners. Good info above guys.
Jim S


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## andy volkerts (Nov 23, 2017)

Thanks much for the welcome back botlguy, it was a struggle but worth it, I am now 75, and have decided to live out the rest of my life by helping others and not being an ass. I lost four life long buddies in 4 months. it was  hard being the last man standing, but everything happens for a reason, so I have decided to find out gods reasoning in this..Andy


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## Robby Raccoon (Nov 24, 2017)

*historic-antiques*, the bottle was likely reused or 'stolen'. Some sort of import, maybe a wine, where the product was emptied and this bottler got its paws on the bottle for their product. 

*Relic Raker*, thank you. I always try to find some sort of information on defunct bottlers I come across. There are just so many that would otherwise be totally unheard of today. How many more have been forever lost to history? 

*Andy*, thank you for the informative explanation, and welcome back. You may recall I also left for a little while. I'm sure many people will be pleased to see you have returned. I'm sorry to read that you've lost so many people so quickly. I know how that feels.... Though I'm young, I've found that any negative experience can be used as a positive learning experience, if we just don't despair. We're glad you've returned to us. How do you mean that you intend to help others? I'm curious about what that entails. 

*NHPharm*, thank you. But isn't gall a bitter wine or bodily fluid? Odd term given it.


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## andy volkerts (Nov 26, 2017)

Thanks for your kind words Bear! By helping people, I am giving older people free rides from their homes to shop go to church etc. and I go to my local post office and have posted ride services for older residents in the part of the county that I live in. I also volunteer on two weekends a month to take AA and NA members to their meetings in Sacramento or Elk Grove, and Walnut Grove, the three biggest cities in the county I live in.  that are nearest to me. I also will give rides to people who need to register to vote, or go to their polls prior to election day, and on election day. I think God is telling me that I have to give back before I pass, and he is keeping me alive to help other people and do his work. I deliver and pass out Scripture or programs from three local churches when they need it to be done. I have found out, in a very short time, that there is a ton of good works that need to be done for our fellow men and women, and a darth of people willing to do them. So, I am trying to help fill that void is all...Andy


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## Robby Raccoon (Nov 26, 2017)

That's an interesting service to provide. I'm sure it's hard to find a regular free ride anywhere. I often tell people, It's all from Him, so it should all be for Him. To live our lives as a sacrifice to Him, in prayer and deed and thought, is the best way to live. The harvest is plenty, but the workers are few. It's always good to see people working for God, giving Him all the credit and glory, because I know that by their fruit they will be known, and they'll be His mouthpiece to those who don't know Him. And when those people see that good fruit, they'll take interest-- perhaps even desire-- in it, and God works in their lives from there so that His kingdom on Earth grows.


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