# GLENSHAW GLASS COMPANY ~ PENNSYLVANIA ~ BOTTLE DATE CODES ~ BRIEF HISTORY ~ ETC.



## SODAPOPBOB

I've been talking about starting this thread for at least a week now but because of the overwhelming amount of information I found, it delayed me in posting it. My biggest challenge was to try and glean the information into a simple format without getting too far afield with stuff that was of no particular interest and yet still be able to capture the attention of soda bottle collectors in particular. I hope the end result will justify the means. This is a work in progress and I still have some organizing to do, but I can think of no better place to start than with this brief history of the Glenshaw Glass Company. It has all the key elements that will help tie together the information that will eventually follow. I consider this the best brief history of the company available and hope you find it informative. The two attachments are original newspaper articles, and both incidents are mentioned in the brief history. Within the next few days I will be adding information specific to Glenshaw bottles, some of which I believe will give us a better understanding of the mysterious lip codes. But for now, please familiarize yourself with the brief history and the accompanying attachments. I hope this will emphasize the difficulties the Glenshaw Glass Company had during it's early years of operation.     Note:  I'm posting the link to the brief history on the following post because it is one of those super-long links and I don't want it to mess up the text here. Attachments From ... 1. Pittston Gazette ~ Pittston, Pennsylvania ~ May 20, 19032. The Evening News ~ Harrisburg, Pennsylvania ~ December 17, 1917


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## SODAPOPBOB

Link To Brief History ... http://books.google.com/books?id=rSl0niAD6KUC&pg=PA236&dq=glenshaw+glass+company+1894+1895&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Y0w5VMeLGc6pyAS5joK4DQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=glenshaw%20glass%20company%201894%201895&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB

To help give us a mental image of the Glenshaw Glass Company, here are three pictures from ... 1.  19492.  19583.  2004


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## SODAPOPBOB

And how it looks today in 2014 ... Notice the signs that say KELMAN BOTTLES (Who bought the company in 2004) From Google Earth Street-View 1.  Facing North2.  Facing South


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## SODAPOPBOB

The main reason I'm starting with pictures of the Glenshaw factory is to help illustrate the stark reality that the soda bottles we collect, discuss, and in some respects cherish, actually came from a bunch of old buildings and warehouses that were often unkempt, hot, smelly, and in many ways contradictory to the finished products (bottles) that were perfectly shaped, gleaming, and finished to perfection for the sole purpose of providing us with a refreshing cold drink. I for one prefer the romanticism of the bottles and their history a lot more than I do of the fact they are in reality just hardened molten glass intended to hold a beverage and then be tossed away.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Meet ...

*John Jacob Meyer ... a.k.a. ... Jacob J ~ Jakob J ~ Jachob J*

*Born:  1855*
*Died:   1921* 

If you read the brief history about the Glenshaw Glass Company you will recall that in 1895 a Jacob Meyer joined the company who provided financial backing and at the time there were four other partners. Well, the long story short is, the four other partners seem to disappear from the records early on and its Jacob Meyer and his sons who come to the forefront. Even though I haven't any records saying as much, I have to assume Jacob bought out the others and became the sole owner. Another interesting and challenging aspect about Jacob is that his first name is sometimes listed as John and sometimes listed as Jacob, with the spelling of Jacob sometimes being with a k as in Jakob or with an h as in Jachob. But irregardless of all that, it seems he went by his middle name of Jacob. (As near as I can determine his real first name was John, but because most accounts list him as Jacob I will use that name whenever referring to him).   

I only mention Jacob to establish a timeframe and connection to the Glenshaw Glass Company, but its one of his sons, who I will introduce you to next, that plays the most important role in the story that follows.

[ Images ]

1.  1900 U.S. Census
2.  Cropped portion with spouse and children
3.  Cropped portion with occupation for Jachob as *Glass Mfg. * (Glass Manufacturer)


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## SODAPOPBOB

[Family Record ~ Compiled in 1964 ~ Genealogical Society ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

John Jakob Meyer Photo ~ Date Unknown but guessing early 1900s


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## SODAPOPBOB

Fast forwarding to 1931 and 1932 we find the Glenshaw Glass Company being accused by the Government of producing 390,000 illegal bottles during Prohibition. Apparently the bottles in question were embossed with various names of whiskey, gin, etc. Notice in the first article where Samuel and George Meyer denied the bottles were intended to be used for distribution but agreed to destroy them anyway. And then just four days later the second article shows the 380,000 bottles were scheduled to be broken, which apparently was going to take fifteen men six days to accomplish. Hmm, the first article says 390,000 bottles but the second article says 380,000 bottles. I wonder what happened to the other 10,000? Oh, I see now, they actually said "approximately." Yeah, right! I can just see someone counting that many bottles. What probably happened is they stashed away 10,000 to be used when Prohibition was over.   

As if the company didn't have enough problems to deal with, we see in May of 1932 where they had another fire, this time destroying 500,000 bottles. Man-o-man, do the math! I bet someone was upset.

Reminder: Samuel and George's father, Jacob Meyer, had been deceased for about ten years in 1931.

Articles From ...

1.  The News Herald ~ Franklin, Pennsylvania ~ September 25, 1931
2.  The Evening News ~ Harrisburg, Pennsylvania ~ September 29, 1931
3.  The News Herald ~ Franklin, Pennsylvania ~ May 27, 1932

(To be continued and getting closer to the as yet unmentioned other brother)


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## SODAPOPBOB

Meet the other brother ... *Albert Christian Meyer  ...  Son of Jacob Meyer* *Born:  1883**Died:   1955 ~ 72 years old* I have more information about Albert to follow but will start with his most notable achievement. Albert designed and patented the famous 1938 Hires Root Beer bottle which became recognizable worldwide. The bottle initially had a foil label and eventually became an ACL. Here's the link to the patent. Notice that Albert was an assignor to the Glenshaw Glass Company. Just click on the small image of the bottle and then after that click where it says "Original Image" to examine the bottle design close up.  *https://www.google.com/patents/USD111212?dq=bottle+111212&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vSg7VKzzHsKSyATG5IDQCQ&ved=0CB0Q6AEwAA* Filed June 17, 1938Published September 13, 1938Design Patent Number 111,212 [ Attachments ] 1.  Patent Image2.  Example of foil label bottle


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## SODAPOPBOB

*Albert C Meyer ...* 1.  *1920 Census* ~ Glenshaw, Pennsylvania2.  John Jacob Meyer 60 years old ~ Albert C Meyer 36 years old3.  John = Manager Glass Works  ...  Albert = Foreman Glass Works


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## SODAPOPBOB

*Albert C Meyer ...* 1. * 1930 Census *~ Glenshaw, Pennsylvania2.   Moulder Bottle Factory3.   Name w/ Spouse and children


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## SODAPOPBOB

I have yet to see Albert listed as an executive in the company. Apparently he was content in the *mold department*. 1.  *1940 Census*2.  Albert C Meyer ~ 56 years old3.  Supt. Mold Dept.  Glass Bottle Co. Mfg.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Family Photo ~ October 1915 ~ Albert is the last man on the right


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## SODAPOPBOB

I don't want to jump to conclusions, but if the idea for the bottle dating lip codes originated from a single individual in the Glenshaw Glass Company, my guess would be that it was most likely Albert C Meyer who came up with the idea. Not only did Albert design the Hires bottle, but he designed and patented numerous other bottles as well. He also designed and patented several machines related to bottle handling, etc. (To be continued)


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## SODAPOPBOB

This link shows the same Hires Root Beer bottle patent plus some information which leads me to believe the Glenshaw Glass Company was one of the very first glass houses to produce ACLs ... http://www.bottlebooks.com/designer%20sodas/designer_soda_bottles1930.htm


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## SODAPOPBOB

This is some more of the *ETC. *stuff ... Circa *1880* Christian Meyer Sr., seated in centerFrom left to right, seated John Jacob < Co-Founder of Glenshaw Glass Company 
Standing to right Christian Meyer Jr.Next to him standing John BechtoldAnd seated on right is Samuel Meyer


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## SODAPOPBOB

I thought I'd start with something easy to help move this thread into the bottle codes category! 

If you enjoy a good mystery, especially a *bottle *related mystery, then I invite you to read the following *877 page* Supreme Court document in which the Glenshaw Glass Company was accused of producing a defective syphon bottle in which an individual was injured and sought damages in the amount of $7,000.00.

Just kidding, I really don't expect anyone to read the entire document. However, it might require doing just that in order to solve the mystery I'm referring to, as follows ...

1.  The accompanying link will open to Page 643 where a Mr. Hendrickson says ...

"*I will concede that this bottle was, as I have already done, made in 1932."*

2.  Now back scroll to Page 626 and then read through to Page 627 where they describe one aspect of the syphon bottles as ...

"*Exhibit B:  A piece of glass, consisting of the bottom of bottle herein and which contains thereon a box with the letter G therein, and also on said piece of glass appears No. 10." *

Note:

1.  The syphon bottle was delivered to the injured party in late 1933
2.  The accident and resulting injury occurred in early 1934
3.  The original court case was in 1935
4.  The appeal (which involves the 877 Pages on the link) began in 1937


Here's the mystery I'm trying to solve ...

*How did Mr. Hendrickson know for a fact that the syphon bottle was made in 1932? *

I'm still reading the document myself but so far I have been unable to find a precise answer to my inquiry other than the syphon bottle had a Box-G and the number 10 embossed on the base. But other than that I'm clueless as to what and/or how Mr. Hendrickson knew what year the bottle was made. Was it the presence of the Box-G logo, or something about the number 10?

Anyhoo, when you have nothing better to do, check it out and see if you can find the answer. If nothing else, this will at least help us establish that the Box-G logo was definitely used as early as 1932. And for those who feel we already knew that, I can only respond by saying that I for one have never seen an actual Glenshaw bottle that I could positively say was from 1932 that had the Box-G logo on it. That's one of the reasons I'm sharing this document, which is to confirm the connection between the Box-G logo and 1932. After all, if the Supreme Court says its true, then it must be so! Not to mention Mr. Henderson's expert testimony.

I'm posting the link to the document in my next post because its another one of those long one's. By the way, at the very end of the document there are several briefs explaining in detail who won the appeals case.

This first link is associated with the attached picture which is described as a Glenshaw syphon bottle marked with a Box-G and a H-9 for 1936. ( I wonder if the H-9 is on the lip or the base? I also wonder what the 9 represents? )

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-green-glass-seltzer-bottle-408899988

( I'm still searching for a picture of a bottle marked with the Box-G logo that's from 1932 )


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## SODAPOPBOB

And here's the long link to the 1937 Supreme Court document. By the way, the bold numbers you see on each page are reference points and not dates.  http://books.google.com/books?id=krghw6_hn7wC&pg=PA643&dq=glenshaw+glass+company+1932&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4UM8VK2LO9P7yATOroL4Cg&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=glenshaw%20glass%20company%201932&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 
In other words ... and because I'm trying to figure out how to date 1932ish Glenshaw bottles ...

If the bottle was "delivered" in late 1933 (as the testimony revealed) then what was about the bottle that made Mr. Hendrickson so sure it was made in 1932? If he didn't know something specific about the bottle, then it seems to me it could just as easily have been made in 1933 and delivered that same year.

To find the testimony regarding the "delivered in 1933" date, scroll to the very, very end of the document and read the various briefs. That's also where you will find the court's final decision.


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. ~ P.S. There are a total of four briefs at the end of the document. The "delivered in 1933" and other pertinent dates start on *P**age 3 *of the *third brief.*


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## SODAPOPBOB

In order to not get too far ahead of myself, and for the sake of newbie collectors and anyone else not familiar with the information I have posted thus far, this is probably a good time to explain the basics about the Glenshaw codes. I can think of no better way to introduce you to the codes than to have you read the attached page which is where most of us learned about them ourselves. If necessary, save the image to your files where you should be able to zoom and/or enlarge it for easier reading. This particular page is from a book titled "Collecting Applied Color Label Soda Bottles" which was initially published in 1995. However, notice at the top of the page where it says ...

                                  Reprinted from SodaNet, November, 1992 and January, 1993

"SodaNet" was an official newsletter of the Painted Soda Bottle Collectors Association. The last issue of SodaNet was published in March of 2002. The book mentioned above resulted in three editions, 1995, 1998, and the last one in 2002.

As you will discover when reading page, the Glenshaw bottle dating codes are found on the lips, or more accurately the "reinforcing ring" portion of the lip, which is the thickest part of the entire closure where the crown caps were attached to seal in the carbonation. Also notice where an individual named David Meinz is credited for having "cracked" the date codes after visiting the Glenshaw plant in 1989. However, since 1989 other lip codes have been found that are not included in the chart at the bottom of the page. The codes on the chart are all single letters such as G, H, I, whereas the newly discovered codes are double lettered such as GH, GI, GJ. Hence, it is the focus of this thread to hopefully better understand all of the codes and not just those from the chart in the book.

So that's why I'm starting with the G-in-a-square logo, or as I prefer to call it, the Box-G logo, which according to most sources was first used on the bases of Glenshaw bottles in 1932 and was the company's identifying mark up until the time the company sold to Kilman Bottles in 2004. I'm hoping that by better understanding the Box-G logo and it's origin that it will in turn give us a better understanding of the letter-codes which were apparently first introduced in 1935.

Anyhoo, please read the page as it should help to make sense of everything else that follows on this thread, (maybe). []

I want to take this opportunity to thank David Meinz for his significant contribution to soda bottle collecting with the hope he doesn't mind that we expound on his findings just a little for the betterment of soda bottle collectors worldwide.

[ Attachments ]

1.  Full page from book
2.  Cropped portion with the codes


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. If anyone is even slightly confused at this point, just wait until you see what follows ... but I will try my best to make it as comprehensive as possible. In the meantime, please put on your thinking caps because we're going where no one has gone before! []


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## SODAPOPBOB

But first, there's this, which is what I meant about expounding on David Meinz's chart ...                            *Here's the way things currently look to me ...*


*   Glenshaw Glass Company Bottle Codes*
*Codes referred to are on the bottle lip/reinforcing ring*

*G-Solo ... Used as early as 1927 and possibly earlier. G stands for Glenshaw*

 *(Box-G logo most likely introduced in 1932)*

*                (No Solo-G code is currently known which coexist with Box-G logo)*


*H & GH .. First codes to coexist with Box-G logo and both represent 1936*
*I & GI ... Both represent 1937*
*J & GJ .. Both represent 1938*

*                         (Double letter codes apparently cease in 1938)*

*K-Solo ... Represents 1939*
*L thru Z . Solo codes continue with an L for 1940 to Z for 1954 *

*                           (After 1954-Z the codes continue with ... )*

*A = 1955*
*B = 1956*
*C = 1957*
*D = 1958 ... Last lip code used and practice is discontinued*


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## SODAPOPBOB

*                                                    "Beam me up, Scotty"* 
Previously when I said "we're going where no one has gone before,"  what I meant is that we're going from single letter codes on the *lip *to single letter codes on the *base*.

Remember the Supreme Court lawsuit where Mr. Hendrickson stated matter-of-fact that the syphon bottle in question was made in 1932, and then I wondered how it was that he knew the date? Well, I looked around and found a lot of what are now referred to as seltzer bottles and discovered that many of them were made by the Glenshaw Glass Company. And not only that, but every one of the twelve listed below are described as having the G-in-a-square logo on the base along with single letter date code on the base as well. I realize these are not soda bottles, but it does inform us that not all of the Glenshaw codes were on the lips and that some, at least in the case of syphon/seltzer bottles, were on the base. If you recall, the syphon bottle involved with the Supreme Court case was listed as Exhibit B and described as having a "G-in-a-square and the number 10 on the base." And even though it wasn't described as having any letters on the base, it could be that Mr. Hendrickson knew enough about Glenshaw bottles to recognize it as a 1932 bottle. Hence, because the Supreme Court bottle apparently didn't have a letter on it, that could be how Mr. Hendrickson was so sure it was made in 1932 and not in 1933 or 1934. This is pure conjecture of course, but still a possibility. And there might even have been something about the number 10 that clued him in.

I tried to organize and describe the following seltzer bottles as best I could in an attempt to find some type of common denominators between them, but the best I can come up with after a preliminary examination is that the single numbers after the date codes are either month of the year numbers 1 through 12 or possibly represent something I haven't figured out yet. As for those with three-digit numbers, I'm pretty sure those are style/shape codes, especially the last six bottles which all have M-11 and the number 137 and all are Round, Plain, and made in Green glass.

To summarize ...

Because the syphon bottle that Mr. Hendrickson acknowledged was a 1932 bottle had the Box-G logo and the number 10 on the base but no date letter, it leads me to suspect that 1932 Glenshaw bottles did not have letter codes on them at the time [1932] and this supports the claims in that single letter codes (for all types of Glenshaw bottles) did not begin until 1935.

As for the confusing part, on the attached image of the M-11 137 = 1941 bottle base, I'm not sure if the 11 are the number one or the letters L L , nor if the 1 in 137 is a 1 or an L

                   Check 'em out and see if you can find anything I missed - which I'm sure I did!


1.   H-3 291 = 1936  Round/Plain/Clear



http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-pittsburgh-club-seltzer-130069577 

2.   H-9 805 = 1936  Tapered/Multi-sided/Smooth-shoulder/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/emerald-green-12-sided-seltzer-bottle-ae-nehi-bo

3.   I-1 = 1937  Tapered/Multi-sided/Clear

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1930s-nehi-seltzer-bottle-moxie-407589381

4.   K-9 = 1939  Tapered/Multi-sided/Sharp-shoulder/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/antique-green-glass-seltzer-bottle-408899988

5.   K-2 = 1939  Round/Plain/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/bell-bottling-co-inc-providence-ri-132985248

6.   K-10 = 1939  Round/Plain/Clear

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-seltzer-bottles-clear-green-152070987

7.   M-11 137 = 1941  R/P/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-irattner-green-26oz-seltzer-253518941

8.   M-11 137 = 1941  R/P/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/roseburg-oregon-western-coca-cola-132270127

9.   M- 11 137 = 1941  R/P/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-green-seltzer-bottle-408295767

10.   M-11 137 = 1941  R/P/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-green-glass-seltzer-water-487212324

11.   M-11 137 = 1941  R/P/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-etched-green-glass-seltzer-bottle

12.   N-9 137 = 1942  R/P/Green

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/coca-cola-coke-glass-seltzer-bottle-129688411


[ Attachment ]

Either ...... M11 137
Or ........... MLL L37


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## SODAPOPBOB

Next up (tomorrow) involves a bottle I own that has a distinctly embossed number *32 *on the lip that has me totally boggled! [8|] (To be continued)


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. For those that did not read the briefs on the Supreme Court case, the Glenshaw Glass Company lost the first case in 1935 and had to pay the $7,000.00, but won the 1937 Appeals case when the judge and jury reversed the decision stating there was no negligence on the part of Glenshaw Glass and that they did not produce a defective bottle. It appears the bottle exploded as the result of some other cause which I'm still not clear about at to how it happened. Anyway, hooray for Glenshaw!


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## SODAPOPBOB

Just closing up shop for the evening and wanted to share this picture in case there was any doubt as to when the Glanshaw Glass Company was established. I'd sure like to get my hands on one of those booklets and see what information it contains.


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## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> As for the confusing part, on the attached image of the M-11 137 = 1941 bottle base, I'm not sure if the 11 are the number one or the letters L L , nor if the 1 in 137 is a 1 or an L [ Attachment ]
> 
> Either ...... M11 137
> Or ........... MLL L37



*Correction!*                               In the quote above I made a typo and meant to say ...  *As for the confusing part, on the attached image of the M-11 137 = 1941 bottle base, I'm not sure if the 11 are the numbers one or the letters II , nor if the 1 in 137 is a 1 or an I* [ Attachment ]
*Either ......  M11 137
Or ...........  MII I37 *                                       I accidently typed in the letter "L" but meant the letter "I"               I need to examine more of those particular bottles but believe the digits are the number one "*1*"


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## SODAPOPBOB

This is to a Glenshaw seltzer bottle currently on eBay which has a good picture of the base ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-A-B-C-Beverage-GREEN-Glass-Seltzer-Bottle-READING-PA-Liberty-Bell-/161446480744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2596f5cb68 Which I believe is ... *L-12 = 1940* Note:  I've yet to see a reference or picture of a number higher than 12 but not sure what the numbers attached to the letters mean.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another Glenshaw seltzer bottle on eBay and is the first *solo G* I have seen on any type of Glenshaw bottle. Based on what I've been seeing, my guess is this bottle is a ... *G-12 = 1935* But still not confirmed yet and still not sure what the numbers represent - but could possibly be a month designation.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-David-Boyle-Co-Paterson-NJ-White-Cross-Sparkling-Water-seltzer-bottle-/141430559817?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20edeb1449


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. If a Solo-G exist on a Glenshaw seltzer bottle, then its highly possible that a Solo-G exist on one of their soda bottles.  ???


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## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Here's another Glenshaw seltzer bottle on eBay and is the first *solo G* I have seen on any type of Glenshaw bottle.



 Clarification ...  ... is the first *solo **G* I have seen on any type of Glenshaw bottle *that coexist with their G-in-a-square logo. *


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## SODAPOPBOB

I forgot to mention an important aspect of the G-12 Glenshaw seltzer bottle. Not only does it have the Solo-G mark as well as the G-in-a-square logo on the base, but it's also an ... *             ACL / APPLIED COLOR LABEL BOTTLE*


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## SODAPOPBOB

Just for the record ... I discovered during the Supreme Court case that Mr. Hendrickson was the Counsel/Attorney for the Glenshaw Glass Company. By doing some additional research I was also able to determine that his full name was Bert W. Hendrickson who apparently was from Pittsburg, PA. I'm still searching to see if the various descriptions of the syphon bottle include any mention of a letter code along with the G in-a-box and the number 10, but so far I have not been able to find anything specific. What I'm attempting to do is either prove or disprove whether the letter date codes began in 1935 or possibly earlier.    The attachments are snippets of the pages indicated from the document ... 1.  Page 782.  Page 6273.  Page 643


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. This link should take you to an access for Page 342 of the document where the most detaileddescription of the syphon bottle begins. Just click where Page 342 is highlighted in blue andit should take you directly to that page. Start there and keep reading where you will discover a great deal of information about the syphon bottle including some stuff I'm still trying to make sense of myself. It mentions some other words that were on the bottle but I'm not sure if theywere on the base or on the side. Nor am I certain if the other words were embossed - etched - or possibly even applied color. Check it out and see what you come up with.  http://books.google.com/books?id=krghw6_hn7wC&pg=PA643&dq=glenshaw+glass+company+1932&hl=en&sa=X&ei=4UM8VK2LO9P7yATOroL4Cg&ved=0CFoQ6AEwCTgK#v=onepage&q=342&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. I've read that portion of the document several times but just now discovered on Page 349 where Mr. Myer said his company name was "sand blasted" on the side of the bottle, which is what I think of as "etched." Which means the 1932 Glenshaw syphon bottle was not an acl / painted label bottle.


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## SODAPOPBOB

*                                                  ~ TREASURE HUNT ~* Consider this your personal invitation to join me on a treasure hunt. From page 349 of the document I discovered the syphon bottle in question was etched on the side with ...                         *               Myer Products, Inc. New York, N.Y.* I have only done a quick search but so far have not found one. I invite others to join in the search and see if we can find a picture of not only the exact bottle but also of the base to see exactly how a 1932 Box-G Glenshaw bottle was actually marked.       Thanks in advance to those who participate - especially to the individual who finds one.                      Note:  The "A" stands for "Answer" and is not a part of Myer Products, Inc.


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## SODAPOPBOB

This is all I have been able to find so far - but no date, description, or mention of Glenshaw ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

*                                                   Cutting to the chase!* 
Based on the recent findings involving Glenshaw syphon/seltzer bottles and their apparent consistency of single letters found on the base, which currently include G through N (J still unknown), it seems to be more than just coincidence that the letters would represent anything other than the year the bottles were produced. Even though more research and examination of the syphon bottles is required to fully establish the letters as date codes, I feel the evidence presented thus far aptly warrants the revised version of the codes as follows, which is subject to future revisions if necessary ...       






*                                         Revised ...*


*      Glenshaw Glass Company Bottle Codes*
*Codes referred to are on the bottle lip/reinforcing ring**

              *Syphon/Seltzer type bottles have single letter codes on the base

*              G-Solo ... Possibly used as early as 1927 or earlier. G stands for Glenshaw*

 *(Box-G logo most likely introduced in 1932)*

*(No Solo-G code currently known to coexist with Box-G logo on a soda bottle)*


*~ Known Syphon/Seltzer Bottle Codes ~*


*                                    (All of which have the Box-G logo on the base)*


*     As of this revision, the known single letter codes on syphon bottles are as follows ...*

*          G = 1935    H = 1936   I = 1937   K = 1939   L = 1940   M = 1941   N = 1942*


*        The G = 1935 code has been found on an ACL/Applied Color Label syphon bottle**

*      *(Which might be one of the first ACL bottles produced by the Glenshaw Glass Co.) *


*~ * ~*


*                                                 ~ Known Soda Bottle Codes ~* 

*G-Solo ... Currently not known to exist on a soda bottle**

*       *(With the exception of a G-on-the-lip / 1927 on-the-base which still needs confirmation)*

*H & GH .. First known codes to coexist with Box-G logo ~ both represent 1936**


*                          *1936 is earliest known code on an ACL soda bottle*

*I & GI ... Both represent 1937**J & GJ .. Both represent 1938*

*                            (Double letter codes apparently cease in 1938)*

*K-Solo ... Represents 1939*
*L thru Z . Solo codes continue with an L for 1940 to Z for 1954 * 

*                             (After 1954-Z the codes continue with ... )* 

*A = 1955*
*B = 1956*
*C = 1957*
*D = 1958 ... Last lip code used and practice is discontinued*


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. It could very well be that the earlier code charts are accurate in that Glenshaw's first acl bottle was introduced in 1935, but that doesn't necessarily mean it was a soda bottle - it could have been a syphon bottle. Re-read the page from the acl book and notice where it says ... *"Why the letter "G" for 1935? That may have been the introductory year of the first Glenshaw applied color label."* Although this quote implies soda bottles, it could just as easily mean other types of bottles, including syphon's.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

In trying to determine why the Glenshaw Glass Company, who had been in operation since 1895, decided to introduce a new logo, namely the G in-a-square, and that it was apparently introduced in 1932, I went back and searched every record I could find for 1931 and 1932 to see what I could find that might have influenced the new logo, and the only significant events I could find were ... 1.  The September 1931 incident involving the illegal bottles.2.  The September 1931 destruction of the same illegal bottles.3.  The May 1932 fire that destroyed approximately 500,000 bottles. Could it be that this combination of events, especially the destruction to the illegal whiskey and other liquor bottles, is what gave Glenshaw cause to decide it was time to reinvent themselves by introducing a new logo?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And is it also possible that in 1935, when the acl process was perfected, that Glenshaw decided it was time to reinvent themselves again so as to more closely monitor their production of bottles by introducing the letter codes? And is it only the syphon and soda bottles that contained the letter codes? What about the other bottles produced by Glenshaw such as food bottles, medicine bottle, etc; do those have letter codes as well?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And is it also possible that the Supreme Court case, which began in 1935 and was appealed in 1937, might be another reason for introducing the letter codes?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

If Albert C Meyer were still alive, I bet he could answer our questions. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if he had a direct hand in the decision making process, especially those that involved product improvement. 1.  Circa 18802.  Circa 19153.  1947


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Dang it!  Another typo.  And just when I was on a roll. []                                                       Correction ...                 The circa 1880 photo is of Jacob Meyer, Albert's father, and not of Albert


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Speaking of Jacob Meyer, in this family reunion photo he's the portly gentleman who is seated and holding a child. I'm still working on trying to determine the date when the photo was taken and which of the men and/or boys are the brothers who were involved in the Glenshaw Glass Company.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Meet ... *Frank Otto Beyerl* *Born:  1878**Died:  1972* I'm not sure when this photo was taken, but he appears to be no older than about 60 years old. If so, and because he died in 1972 at the age of 94, then my guess is that the photo was taken around 1938. All I can tell you about him at the moment is that he worked for the Glenshaw Glass Company for most of his adult life. Who knows, maybe he was the guy who came up with the date codes. []


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another Glenshaw G-12 syphon bottle which is an acl and most likely made in 1935 ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And here are both of the Glenshaw G-12 ACL syphon bottles side-by-side for comparison ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*I hope this thread has given us a slightly better understanding of the Glenshaw Glass Company's history as well as some insight regarding the possible origin of the various bottle dating codes, not to mention trying to decipher and catalog them. As I mentioned earlier, more research needs to be done and a closer examination of the bottles themselves is required before an unquestionable and account can be compiled in which collectors can rely on now and in the future. Which takes us from Glenshaw seltzer bottles to ...          *



*Glenshaw Glass Company Soda Bottles*


As most forum members know, this is not the first time Glenshaw bottles and their date codes have been discussed, nor is it likely to be the last. The following links are of two such discussions and are titled accordingly with the names of their original authors. It is because of these two threads that I decided to do this follow up. The threads contain a great deal of information about Glenshaw soda bottles and I highly recommend them both as a must read for anyone interested in the full spectrum of Glenshaw soda bottles and their various dating codes. 

Most of what follows is borrowed from the two threads below with the hope that all three threads will compliment one another so as to give collectors a complete "picture" of what the various lip codes look like on Glenshaw *soda* bottles. It is not known exactly how many different brands of soda pop Glenshaw made bottles for, but I think it safe to assume they could easily total into the hundreds. The examples of the lip codes to follow are, I'm sure, only the tip of the iceberg.               




Link / Original thread "Oldest Royal Crown Cola Bottle" by member judu May 2014

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Oldest-ACL-Royal-Crown-Cola-Bottle-m650674-p2.aspx


Link / Follow-up thread "Earliest ACL Royal Crown Cola redux" by member Morbious_fod October 2014

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Earliest-ACL-Royal-Crown-Cola-redux-m663404.aspx


I will do my best to acknowledge the member who contributed each of the following pictures and apologize in advance should I happen to overlook anyone. I will also attempt to post them in sequence according to their dates with the earliest dates first. The contributing member's names will appear as [ Member ]  My sincere appreciation is expressed to all contributing members.    

1.  J. Weiner & Company, Inc. Woodbridge, New Jersey fully embossed soda bottle.
2.  1927 on the base of the Weiner bottle which I suspect is the date it was made.
3.  Solo-G on the lip of the Weiner bottle which I suspect stands for "Glenshaw" and is not a
     date related code. 

Note:  It has not been confirmed yet if this is a Glenshaw bottle but all accounts suggest that it
           most likely is.  

[ Images courtesy of member Wheelah23 ]

(1 of 5)


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## SODAPOPBOB

(2 of 5) 
1.  GI = 1937 / ABC Brand / ACL [ Courtesy of member carling ]
2.  GI = 1937 / Royal Crown Cola / ACL /  [ Member Morbious_fod ]
3.  GI = 1937 / Upper 10 / ACL  [ Member squirtbob ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

(3 of 5) 
1.  J = 1938 / Bubble Up / ACL [ Courtesy of member carling ]
2.  J = 1938 / Pep Up / ACL  [ Member carling ]
3.  GJ = 1938 / Bolton Club / ACL  [ Member carling ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

(4 of 5) 
1.  GJ = 1938 / Mission Beverages / ACL  [ Courtesy of member carling ]
2.  X = 1952  [ Source and brand unknown or else I just never listed them ]
3.  Y = 1953 / 7up / ACL /  [ Member squirtbob ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

(5 of 5) 
1. August 15, 1931 / National Carbornator Magazine /  [ Courtesy of member Morbious_fod ]
2. September 15, 1932 / National Carbornator  [ Member Morbious_fod ]
3. Cropped enlargement of "G" from 1931 Ad

Notice the images in the 1931 Ad show the "G" on the lip whereas the 1932 Ad does not. Also notice the 1932 Ad shows the G-in-a-square logo whereas the 1931 Ad does not. This strongly supports that the Box-G logo was in fact introduced in 1932 as most accounts claim.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And as a little bonus, I found this picture of a deco soda bottle that appears identical to the one from Morb's 1931 National Carbonator Ad ... 1.  Deco Bottle ~ Amityville Bottling Company ~ Amityville, Long Island, New York ~ Exact date     unknown but has the G-in-a-square logo on the base 2.  Image from 1931 Ad


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And of course there's the ever popular Whistle deco soda bottle ... 1.  Bottle2.  Image from Morb's 1931 Ad3.  1926 Whistle Bottle Patent Note:  Glenshaw produced the Whistle bottle for various bottlers over the years but it was not their design or patent. Glenshaw's first soda bottle patent was the Hires Root Beer bottle we discussed earlier that was designed by Albert C Meyer in 1938.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*                             IN SEARCH OF ...*

*A whistle soda bottle with a glenshaw date code on the lip, especially if the letter is a **Solo ...*
*g*


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## SODAPOPBOB

For those who might be confused about some of the terms used ...                                  *                               ~  Crown Closure & Finish Definitions and Features  ~ * *1.  A bottle closure refers to the type of "seal" it required, which in this example would**     have used **a typical crimped metal Crown cap that was secured to the lip. * *2.  A bottle finish refers to the entire closure including the lip as well as the reinforcing**     ring portion of the finish. The reinforcing ring added strength to the entire finish.**    Without the reinforcing ring the lip would be weak and not function as well if merely**    applied to **the bottle's neck.*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Also in search of ...* 

  Pictures of lip codes not already shown  

Thanks!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*                                                ~  Advanced Reading  ~* Perhaps there is more than meets the eye here. Perhaps the Glenshaw Glass Company had a specific reason for introducing the G-in-a-square logo in 1932 and also for introducing the lip codes in 1935. Maybe, just maybe it had something to do with the "royalties" they were required to pay and a need to accurately keeping track of every bottle they produced. And maybe it had little or nothing to do with determining how long a particular bottle was in circulation. Hmm, I wonder ...                                               *Read all about it here ...* http://www.leagle.com/decision/1955102723dttc1004_1904.xml/GLENSHAW%20GLASS%20COMPANY,%20INC.%20v.%20COMMISSIONER


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Aside from searching and hopefully finding pictures of the missing lip codes and certain bottles such as the deco Whistle bottle, this pretty much wraps up everything I'm likely to find on this subject which would be helpful and of interest to soda bottle collectors. It is by no means the entire story, but perhaps in the future others will pick up where I left off and hopefully someday we'll know "the rest of the story." * *Signed ...* *Sodapopbob  *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*P.S.*

*Even if the technical term is "reinforcing ring code" for me they'll always be ... **Lip Codes!  []*


----------



## cowseatmaize

You must exhausted (very tired) Bob.Sorry I didn't check in sooner but I'm a nitty gritty kinda guy. I'd rather frame a house than do trim work. I hope you don't think that this is unappreciated because it's not.I am curious why you said BRIEF HISTORY though? []That's what I was wanting for with my nitty gritty mentality. What's the final chart going to look like? Did I miss it?  Have you figured that out? I'll bet Whitten, Muncey and a lot of others (including myself) would love to see it. It looks like you've done more research then anyone else has.


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## SODAPOPBOB

cowseatmaize said:
			
		

> You must exhausted (very tired) Bob.Sorry I didn't check in sooner but I'm a nitty gritty kinda guy. I'd rather frame a house than do trim work. I hope you don't think that this is unappreciated because it's not.I am curious why you said BRIEF HISTORY though? []That's what I was wanting for with my nitty gritty mentality. What's the final chart going to look like? Did I miss it?  Have you figured that out? I'll bet Whitten, Muncey and a lot of others (including myself) would love to see it. It looks like you've done more research then anyone else has.



Cows Thanks for stopping by I'm not exhausted but my computer is. I use a satellite dish for Internet access and have limited "bites" per month. Certain downloads such as newspaper articles and pdf files gobble up bites like a kid in a candy store. This translates to my computer being slower than molasses toward the end of the month, which is the point I'm at now, thus my computer is "exhausted." As for the "Brief History" in my title, that's what I had in mind originally but things kind of snowballed because I kept finding so much stuff. I actually do intend to do a revised chart of sorts and currently working on it, which I hope to have completed in a few days. In the meantime there's this from ... The News Record ~ North Hills, Pennsylvania ~ September 14, 1995


----------



## iggyworf

Good work again you guys!!!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I'm still searching to see if I can find any of the Solo-G soda bottles that are illustrated in Morb's 1931 National Carbonator ad. Even though I have not found any of the actual bottles yet, I did discover that several of the companies were in operation at the time. One of which was ... Apollo Bottling Company ~ New York I don't know when this bottle cap was made but suspect it was before the Apollo space program started in the 1960s. I find it interesting that the Apollo Bottling Company connected a rocket ship with the word Apollo before the space program did. Apollo was the Greek god of light and as near as I can determine had nothing to do with space travel.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another one ... Mt. Kisco Bottling Company ~ New York


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## SODAPOPBOB

However, I did find this which is very similar to the Kisco bottle ... *1926*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

In case there was any question, this is to establish the letters on Glenshaw seltzer bottles are not style/shape or color codes. Notice these three bottles are different in many respects. Which are marked on the bases as follows ... 1.  H-3     ( Round ~ Clear ~ Embossed )2.  H-9     ( Tapered ~ Green ~ Etched ) 3.  H-10   ( Round ~ Green ~ Etched ) Note:  I have done similar comparisons with most of the other letters and found similar results.          Hence, the letters are undoubtedly date codes.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 1.  I have not found a letter code beyond the letter *N*2.  I have not found a number higher than *12*


----------



## cowseatmaize

"I don't know when this bottle cap was made but suspect it was before the Apollo space program started in the 1960s. I find it interesting that the Apollo Bottling Company connected a rocket ship with the word Apollo before the space program did. Apollo was the Greek god of light and as near as I can determine had nothing to do with space travel." IDK, it looks kind or like Saturn 5 to me?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Cows I agree - *Saturn V* and the bottle cap surely dates after 1966 when the first Saturn V was built.  However, based on some additional research I did ... (See following post) 1.  Cap2.  Model of a Saturn V


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## SODAPOPBOB

However, based on some additional research I did, Apollo deco soda bottles do exist, but they're from Pennsylvania and not New York. Unfortunately this particular example did not have a good description and there was no mention of a letter on the lip nor anything about Glenshaw. All it said is that the bottle was embossed around the center with "Apollo Bottling Co." and on the base was embossed with "Apollo, PA." But at least we know they exist now irregardless of who made them. 1. Bottle2. Close up of the word "Bottling"3. Base with "Apollo, PA."


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the bottle and the illustration together for comparison ... 1.  Bottle2.  Illustration


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## cowseatmaize

Okay, "Apollo Bottling Co", Apollo PA at least shows in 1924.. I still say no connection but maybe the side of the cap has more? I'm guessing that's in internet borrow and we may not find out though.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Scroll to the bottom of Page 9 and the top of Page 10 on this link for several listings of "Apollo Bottling Co." *Hutchinson *bottles. (But I'm not sure of the dates). http://www.hutchbook.com/Bottle%20Directory/Documents/USA-PA-Hutches.pdf


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. The Apollo Hutchinson bottle listed as *D.O.C. 19 *might be an indication of *1919*.  ???


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Reminder ... The real search is for an Apollo bottle *with a solo G or any other letter on the lip! []*


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## SODAPOPBOB

*For whatever it's worth, here's ... []* *               SODAPOPBOB'S*
*                       2014*




*     GLENSHAW GLASS CO. CODED BOTTLE DATES*


*Solo-G exist on the lip of at least one known embossed soda bottle which also* *has **1927 on the base. However, no confirmation yet whether this bottle was made by Glenshaw.*


*                                     ~ * ~*


*               ~ Glenshaw Seltzer/Syphon Bottles ~*

* (Single Letter Codes are on the base along with Box-G logo)*

*                G = 1935*     J = 1938     M = 1941*
*                H = 1936      K = 1939     N = 1942**  *
*                I =  1937      L = 1940*

*                      *G found on an ACL seltzer bottle      *

*                    **N is the latest code currently known*



*                                    ~ * ~*



*                ~ Glenshaw Soda Bottles ~*


*        (Letter Codes are on the lip along with Box-G logo on the base)*

*   H=1936      J=1938     M=1941    Q=1945    U=1949   Y=1953    A=1955*
*   GH=1936*   GJ=1938*   N=1942    R=1946     V=1950  Z=1954    B=1956  *
*   I=1937      K=1939      O=1943    S=1947     W=1951              C=1957 *
*  GI=1937*   L=1940       P=1944    T=1948     X=1952                D=1958***

*                 *GH  GI  GJ are the only known double letter codes*

*                   H & GH=1936 are the earliest known ACL codes* *                      **D=1958 is the latest code currently known *


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## SODAPOPBOB

*                ~ INCONCLUSIVE CONCLUSION ~* 
*IF THE NUMBERS FOLLOWING THE LETTERS ON THE*
*BASE OF THE GLENSHAW GLASS COMPANY SELTZER BOTTLES REPRESENT THE MONTHS OF THE YEAR, THEN THE G-12 APPLIED COLOR LABEL SELTZER BOTTLES PICTURED WERE MADE IN DECEMBER OF 1935 AND MIGHT BE THE FIRST ACL BOTTLES GLENSHAW EVER MADE.  ???*

*1.  G-12 ACL SELTZER BOTTLE = DECEMBER 1935 ~ BASE*
*2. G-12 ACL SELTZER BOTTLE = DECEMBER 1935 ~ BASE *


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## SODAPOPBOB

*G-12 = DECEMBER 1935 ACL SELTZER BOTTLES ... ???*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*                 ???... IF ... ???*


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## SODAPOPBOB

*             Just a little more history / ACL lingo / Tip of the iceberg bottle shapes* *     "It has made more than 10,000 differently-shaped bottles in its 80 year history."* *                                             80th Anniversary article from ...* *                The News Record ~ North Hills, Pennsylvania ~ October 4, 1975*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*                                                               In Search of ...* *                  Copies of the Glenshaw Glass Company employee newsletter called ...* *"The Glass-Zette"* *The editor was Julius Murphy and the newsletter was popular during the 1970s. Its possible that certain editions contain valuable information about Glenshaw's history and might even have the answers to a lot of as yet unanswered questions. I took a quick look around but have not found any copies yet. But based on the references I've seen, there were dozens if not hundreds of issues published over the years. If anyone ever comes across any of these newsletters, please share them with us.   Thanks!  *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This discussion wouldn't be complete without at least a brief review of some of the other codes found on Glenshaw soda bottles. The codes I'm referring to are embossed on the base and are typically three and four digit numbers such as 700, 1937, etc. Even though these numbers need more studying and cataloging, I'm confident they are style numbers which indicate the shape of a particular bottle and are not related to dates or colors. 

Someday I hope do a more extensive examination of these codes and try to correlate which numbers belong to which bottle styles, but for now I'll just stick with some of the basics. This same topic was the subject of discussion back in September of 2012 involving a thread started by member squirtbob in which myself and other members participated. Here's the link to that discussion for those who wish to read it ...

Http://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/squirt-bottles-m547212.aspx


In order to keep things simple here, I'm going to draw attention to only three bottles, all of which have the Glenshaw Box-G logo embossed on the base along with the number ...

*1937*

As you will see in the following pictures, the embossed 1937 is quite large and positioned in the center of the base. The first time I encountered this number was on a "Tom Tucker" acl soda bottle I purchased. When I purchased the bottle I had never heard of a Glenshaw code and naturally assumed that 1937 was the year it was made. It wasn't until sometime later that I discovered the bottle had an *R* lip code for *1946*. Since discovering this I have seen where others, especially eBay sellers, have made the same mistake as I did by assuming the 1937 was a date. In fact, there's one on eBay right now! Here's the link ...

Http://www.ebay.com/itm/1937-TOM-TUCKER-Green-ACL-SODA-POP-BOTTLE-PITTSBURGH-PA-Glenshaw-Glass-RARE-Vtg-/301355922910?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item462a3675de

When you read the seller's description, you'll notice he apparently did some research and was familiar with the Glenshaw history and even mentions lip codes, but in his title still gives the impression the bottle was made in 1937. Because the eBay listing will eventually disappear, here's a portion of the seller's description ...

*"*The glass was produced by the Glenshaw Glass Company, begun in 1894 by two glassblowers from Pittsburgh, along with a hotel keeper and a retail merchant ~ and although it sat dormant since 2004 due to bankruptcy, it was resurrected in 2005 and rescued by a Pittsburgh businessman and is back in business today producing 200 tons of glass daily (from a 2007 report). The G inside a square was their trademark.

It is stamped 1937 on the base and it looks like the number 5. Some bottles had a letter right below the lip to signify the year but I couldn't find any on this very old bottle." 


Now we come to the three bottles I mentioned, two of which I have base pictures of and show the 1937, whereas the third bottle did not have a base picture but was clearly described as being embossed with 1937. The bottles pictured do not include the eBay Tom Tucker, but that listing does have a picture of the base showing *G  1937  5*

As for the three bottles pictured here, the in-common characteristics are ...

1.  All three bottles are the same shape.
2.  All three bottles are 7 ounce.
3.  All three bottles are ACLs.
4.  All three bottles are embossed with the Box-G logo and 1937.

The not-in-common characteristic is ...

1.  Two of the bottles are green glass and one of the bottles is clear glass.*

*Hence my belief the number 1937 has nothing to do with the color of the glass.

As for the numbers *5 *(on the eBay bottle) and *7 *and *8 *on those pictured, I'm confident those are *mold numbers*.

[ Attachments ]

1.  My Tom Tucker bottle ~ Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania ( Which has an R on the lip for 1946)
2.  Old Kerry bottle ~ Haverhill, Massachusetts (Lip code unknown)  
3.  Twins bottle ~ Detroit, Michigan  (No picture of the base ~ Lip code unknown)

(Base pictures on next post)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Base Pictures ... 1.   My Tom Tucker bottle ~ Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania (R on the lip for 1946) Green *G  1937  8 *
2.   Old Kerry bottle ~ Haverhill, Massachusetts (Lip code unknown) Clear *G  1937  7*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And just for the heck of it, here's the base of the Tom Tucker Bottle on eBay ... Green ~ *G  1937  5*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. When you stop and think about it, it makes sense (at least to me) that a soda bottle *mold* would not need to have a *color of the glass code *on it. The color of the glass would depend on the work order and who the bottles were being made for. They probably used the same style of molds for clear bottles as they did for green bottles. The difference would have been the silk screened (acl) labels that were applied afterwards.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*                    TO ASSUME OR NOT TO ASSUME?  THAT IS THE QUESTION!*

When I first came across Wheelah23's *J. Weiner & Co., Inc.* embossed bottle with the G on the lip and 1927 on the base, I was immediately reminded of my Tom Tucker bottle with 1937 on the base and how the 1937 was not the date and that the R on the lip represented 1946. Hence, I can't help but wonder if the 1927 on the Weiner bottle might also be a style number and not a date? Are we to assume because J. Weiner & Co. was in business in 1927 this automatically means the 1927 is a date?

Even though I have been unable to find a detailed history of J. Weiner & Co., Inc., we know they were in operation at least as early as 1924. And because of a recent finding, I'd like to add to this an in operation date of 1935. Because they were in operation as late as 1935, and because the Tom Tucker (and other) Glenshaw bottles are embossed on the base with what appear to be dates but are actually style codes, I believe its also possible the 1927 on the base of the J. Weiner bottle might be a style code as well and not a date.

Hence my title, which ask, just because the Tom Tucker and the J. Weiner bottles are marked with numbers that appear to be dates, should we automatically *assume* those numbers are dates? Lastly, are we also to *assume *the J. Weiner bottle was made by Glenshaw Glass simply because it has a G on the lip? 

I can only answer one part of this question, which is, my Tom Tucker bottle is marked on the base with a Box-G logo and 1937, but the lip is marked with an R for 1946. As for the J. Weiner bottle, that question still needs to be answered but I believe we should not automatically assume the number 1927 is a date until more research can be done.

By the way, I also found some Census records and other directory listings for *Joseph Weiner* which I might post later. In the meantime, there's this ... 



1.  Woodbridge, New Jersey Directory ~ *1935*
2.  Cropped portion with date
3.  Cropped portion pertaining to J. Weiner & Co. Inc.  (Anna was Joseph's wife)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And, of course, there's this ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

The 1927 and 1947 side-by-side for comparison ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. I don't want to jump to conclusions, but I'm thinking the Solo-G-Lip /1927 Base/J. Weiner bottle might have been made by the Glenshaw Glass Company in 1935, and that the number 1927 might be a style number and not a date. ??? < please note []


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Just for the fun of it!  []*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*                                          Just closing up shop for the evening ...* *                                                  Sequence or Coincidence?* *                            1.  1927 on the base with Solo-G on the lip**                            2.  1937 and Box-G logo on the base with R=1946 on the lip**                            3.  1947 and Box-G logo on the base / Lip code unknown *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I don't want to overdo the *[G] 1937 *bottles, and may already have, but because I'm finding so many of them I thought I'd share a few more. Because every one of them are the same style and all are 7 ounce bottles, there's no doubt in my mind that 1937 is a style/shape number. Just be glad I'm not posting all of the *[G] 700* bottles. I think there are more of that style than there are of the [G] 1937's.


*Fan Beverages ~ Winona, Minnesota *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Golden Life ~ East Liverpool, Ohio *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Kayo, Joe Louis Punch ~ Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. Without exception, every one of the last three [G] 1937 bottles I posted was described as being dated 1937. Not one of them mentioned a lip code!


----------



## M.C.Glass

SPBob, please tell me about that Kayo/Joe Louis Punch bottle.It looks like a repaint. Though I get the tie-in. Joe Louis, Kayo.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

MCglass That's a good question and something I was wondering about myself. In fact, this could require a new thread to figure out. As you indicated, the Joe Louis Punch acl is painted over a Kayo label. As you know, Kayo was that tough kid, hence the tie-in to KO (Knock Out). But what's weird is, the bottle I posted is not the only one like it I've seen. Notice below there's even a wooden crate with Kayo on the outside and Joe Louis Punch on the inside. So it's not merely an accidental thing, some bottler did it intentionally. But why, I can't say. Another thing is, the acl bottles I've seen have two bands formed around the bottle and a small Kayo acl on the shoulder, whereas the paint-over's don't have the bands and instead of a small Kayo on the shoulder, have a large Kayo acl on the shoulder. I can't find a smooth-sided Kayo bottle other than the one's that have been painted over. So your guess is as good as mine why any of this was done. The only connection I'm aware of is the "boxing" theme. ??? [ Attachments ] 1.  Standard Kayo acl bottle with bands/rings and small Kayo on shoulder 2.  Wooden Box3.  Paint-over bottle for comparison


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And here's the backside of the Kayo/Joe Louis paint-over


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Kayo paint-over with typical Joe Louis Punch bottle for comparison ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

The more I look into the Kayo/Joe Louis Punch mystery the more confusing it gets ... This is the other bottle I mentioned. But this time the Joe Louis Punch label is on the back of the Kayo bottle, whereas the first bottle I posted it was on the front. Plus, this bottle is marked "Chocolate Bev. Products Chicago, Illinois," whereas the first bottle was from Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This bottle is obviously the same style/shape as the other bottle, but the seller of this bottle did not mention anything about a [G] 1937 on the base, which I'm sure he would have if it was marked as such. 1.  Front2.  Front Close Up3.  Back


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

More confusion ...

Here's the side of the wood crate, which is from Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. So now we have three different locations - Pittsburgh, Pa., Chicago, Ill., Philadelphia, Pa.

Maybe at some point the Joe Louis Punch Company bought the Kayo Company and reused their stuff. Or perhaps it was vice versa. ???


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. Earlier I said, "So it's not merely an accidental thing, some bottler did it intentionally." But what I meant to say was, that some bottler "had it done."  I'm pretty sure the acl paint-over was done at a glass factory and not by the bottler. It appears, at least with the Pittsburgh bottle, the paint-over was done by the Glenshaw Glass Company. But why would the Glenshaw Glass Company do that if not requested by the bottler? And why would a bottler request such a thing?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Etc. ...*           Just for the record, Joe Louis Punch originated in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania in *1946*                                                 (More about this later)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Long story short ...* 

The Kayo brand name was registered in 1926 and remained in operation for many years until the Sara Lee Corporation bought the rights around 2007. Joe Louis Punch originated in 1946 and was considered a financial disaster causing a cease in production in 1950. So it seems apparent that neither company bought out the other one. Because the Joe Louis Punch label is on top of the Kayo label, it appears obvious it was the Joe Louis brand that initiated the paint-over and not Kayo. Which kind of makes sense when you take into account the Joe Louis brand struggled to stay in operation right from the get-go. In fact, Joe Louis Punch was first marketed in Mexico in 1946 and not distributed in the United States until 1947. As to why the Joe Louis Punch brand put their label on Kayo bottles, I can only think of one possible reason that might explain it, namely ... 

Joe Louis Punch was struggling and hard up for cheap bottles. I'm thinking the Kayo bottles they used were discontinued and the tie-in to "KO / Kayo / Knock Out" was a logical choice. Joe Louis was, at one time, considered the "Knockout King."

However, none of this explains the existence of a Kayo soda bottle made by the Glenshaw Glass Company, at least not the one with the Joe Louis Punch paint-over. I've looked everywhere and can not find one like it that does not have the paint-over. As I said earlier, the Kayo acl bottles I've seen all have the two rings around the bottle. Plus, I can't find a Kayo bottle that has the word Kayo on the shoulder that's positioned in the wide acl strip. Maybe those particular Kayo bottles were made but for some reason were never distributed, hence the reason why Joe Louis Punch was allowed to use them.  ???


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Okay, this is getting weird ... [&:] 1.  Front2.  Back3.  Base with *[G] 1937*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

~  *Two Theories*  ~


Theory #1.   The Joe Louis Punch / Kayo paint-over bottles were night shift creations by someone at the Glenshaw Glass Company who thought it would be cool to connect the word "Kayo" to Joe Louis who was considered the "King of Knockouts." If this was the case, then I suspect very few of the paint-over bottles were produced and possibly were never distributed. The examples I found pictures of might be those that were set aside over the years. However, the main flaw in this theory is that the first bottle I posted a picture of was capped and still contained some of the Kayo chocolate drink, which suggest it was shipped from the Glenshaw factory to the bottler where it was filled. Of course its also possible that adding the chocolate drink and recapping was done in later years by a collector.     

Theory #2.   The attached snippet is from a 2007 book about the history of Pepsi Cola. At one time the Joe Louis Punch people attempted to strike a deal with Pepsi Cola to see if they were interested in buying into and bottling Joe Louis Punch, which never took place because Pepsi Cola was not interested. The snippet is the latter portion of a half-page from the book that was devoted to the discussion between Joe Louis Punch and Pepsi Cola. The snippet contains a quote by William Graham, who was the president of "The All American Drinks Corporation," which was the parent company for Joe Louis Punch. Notice where it says Joe Louis was so popular at one point that fans kept the bottles as souvenirs, which in turn created a shortage of bottles to be refilled. Even though this might explain the paint-overs, I seriously doubt The All American Drinks Corporation would go to such lengths just to save a few bucks. But then again, who knows, maybe this does explain the paint-overs. Of course this still doesn't explain why a Kayo chocolate drink (if original to the bottle and not added later) was put in a bottle possibly intended for Joe Louis Punch which only made fruit flavors and not chocolate.

Footnote:  I currently favor Theory #1  [] 

(To be continued)

Attachment from ...

"The Pepsi Challenge" book ~ 2007


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Correction ...* Earlier I said Joe Louis Punch originated in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. This is incorrect! The parent company, "All American Drinks Corporation" was based in New York and is where Joe Louis consummated the deal with the company.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This newspaper article, which I cropped into three sections for easier reading*, provides a good account of the agreement between Joe Louis and the All American Drinks Corporation. This is where I got the idea that Joe Louis Punch originated in Pittsburgh. Earlier I missed the part where it says it came from New York. *(You might have to save it first and then read it). From ... The Pittsburgh Carrier ~ August 31, 1946


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

A similar article (same picture - different wording) appeared in this 1946 edition of the "American Bottler" magazine ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. Its also possible that Joe Louis Punch was bottled later than 1950 as I stated earlier, but I have not found a confirmed date yet as to when it ceased production. I only know that all accounts say the brand had a very short life and ended in financial disaster for everyone concerned, including Joe Louis who later had multiple tax problems with the IRS.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*~  More Mystery  ~*


The Glenshaw Glass Company apparently not only made a [G] 1937 Joe Louis Punch bottle, they also made a ...

1.  *[G]  1825 *bottle

            and a ...

2.  *[G]  700  52 *bottle


Both bottles are made of clear glass and are 7 ounces. However, the [G] 1825 bottle is "orange-peel-textured," whereas the [G] 700 52 bottle is smooth and not textured. Another thing about the [G] 700 52 bottle is the two-digit 52 suggest a date of 1952. What's weird about this is, if you go back and reread the page from the ACL book you'll notice where it says the double-digit date codes did not start until *1953 *and had a Y on the lip and 53 on the base. But here we have an example of an apparent 1952 Glenshaw bottle with a double-digit on the base that doesn't jive with the charts. Unfortunately, I do not have a picture of the base on the [G] 700 52 bottle. I got the information from the seller's description. The seller merely described the embossing, including what he called a logo in a square, plus the 700 52. So without a confirmed picture, and because the seller might have mistaken a 53 for a 52, the actual existence of such a bottle remains in question until another one can be found showing a picture of the base. But even with this said, I have no reason to doubt the 700 aspect of the bottle, especially when you take into account the seller did not mention the Glenshaw Glass Company and apparently knew nothing about them or their codes. Nor do I have a picture of the base of the [G] 1825 bottle, but at the present I have no valid reason to doubt the seller. (Even though confirmation is called for here, I am currently of the opinion that both bottles were accurately described and that [G] 1825 and [G] 700 52 Joe Louis Punch bottles do exist)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the neck of the [G] 1825 Joe Louis Punch bottle to show the orange-peel-texture ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here are the links where I found the two bottles in question. You can decide for yourselves if you think they are accurately described or not. In the meantime I will continue my search for pictures of the bases of similar bottles, especially "any" Glenshaw bottles with a [G] 700 52 on the base. 

By the way, I don't mind telling you that "WorthPoint" is best source I am aware of for finding past eBay sales. On it's homepage it says it currently has 200+ million listings. I spend a lot of time on the site, but it can take hours upon hours to search through and I often come up empty-handed.       



[G]  700 52  Link ...

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/joe-louis-punch-bottle-1952-painted-466288187



[G]  1825  Link ...

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-joe-louis-punch-soda-drink-458674945


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Gee, that didn't take long! So much for taking hours and hours. Here's a [G] 700 52 "Lift" bottle that even has a picture of the base ... http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lift-beverage-soda-bottle-acl-prop-481565438


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Hold the phone!* Its starting to look as if the double-digit numbers that follow the style number 700 might not be dates but are some other type of code. I've even seen a 700-32 on a 7up bottle that I know for certain is not a 1932 ACL. I'm now thinking the mysterious double-digit numbers are connected in some way with the bottles style/shape. Hence, the so called [G] 700 52 Joe Louis Punch bottle was likely not made in 1952 but possibly earlier. Hey, squirtbob You're the resident expert on the [G] 700 bottles. Please help me out here and let us know what your take is on the double-digit numbers.  Gracias'  []


----------



## M.C.Glass

Thanks, Bob for all the JLP/Kayo info.It also seems strange that the repainted Joe Louis bottle has Kayo Chocolate in it. Unless it's just rancid fruit punch in there. Regardless, the repainted bottle is NOT a good look. IMO


----------



## squirtbob

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> *Hold the phone!* Its starting to look as if the double-digit numbers that follow the style number 700 might not be dates but are some other type of code. I've even seen a 700-32 on a 7up bottle that I know for certain is not a 1932 ACL. I'm now thinking the mysterious double-digit numbers are connected in some way with the bottles style/shape. Hence, the so called [G] 700 52 Joe Louis Punch bottle was likely not made in 1952 but possibly earlier. Hey, squirtbob You're the resident expert on the [G] 700 bottles. Please help me out here and let us know what your take is on the double-digit numbers.  Gracias'  []


Hey Bob,
I just looked at all the Glenshaw squirt bottles in my collection that have a (G) 700 on the bottom. Here's a sample of the other numbers on the bottom ... 6,10,16,45,21,17,11,43,52,25,28,63,57,49,20,49,61,8 .  All of these bottles could be positively identified by the lip code and the bottle type as coming from 1939-1947.  In NO instance did the number match the date of the bottle.  So the other numbers have absolutely nothing to do with the year of manufacture. The only thing out of the ordinary that I noticed while looking at these bottles is that I have a bottle with an S on the lip which also has an S on the bottom (a 1947 bottle) the other number on the base is 57.  One other had an R on the lip and on the bottom (a 1946 bottle), the other number on the bottom was 40. These are the only two that I've seen that have the date code on the bottle twice and this is just another indicator that the dating from this era was determined by the letter and that the number means something else.  I thought you had determined previously that the other number on the bottom was some type mold number??


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

squirtbob Thanks for the info. Very helpful and much appreciated. Question: Are all of the bottles you listed 7 ounce and *identical in style/shape?* As for the mold numbers, based on what I've seen those typically range from 1 to 10 and possibly as high as 20. Its the higher numbers such as 49 that I'm trying to make sense of. I don't think the higher double-digit numbers have anything to do with the acl label, but they must be related to something. Please tell us about the two 49 bottles you listed. What do they have in common and what do they not have in common, or are they identical in every aspect? Thanks


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. Even though the single and double-digit numbers do not correlate to dates, do the lower numbers happen to be on earlier bottles and the higher numbers on later bottles? For example; is the 43 on an earlier bottle and the 63 on a later bottle?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I selected this bottle making machine at random to illustrate that even as late as 1946-1956 the machines typically had about 10 molds. I'm not a bottle machine expert and realize this requires more research, but my preliminary findings are that there were no bottle machines in the 1940s that had 63+ molds, which is one of the numbers on squirtbob's Squirt bottles. If you count the molds in the attached image (circular parts in main illustration) you'll notice there are only ten of them.

Filed:  ..........August 5, 1946
Patented: ....August 7, 1956


https://www.google.com/patents/US2757484?dq=Owens+bottle+machine&hl=en&sa=X&ei=i1NSVM7CAYOoyAS4h4GoAw&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ


"Blank molds: The machine has *ten* blank or parison molds."


----------



## squirtbob

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> squirtbob Thanks for the info. Very helpful and much appreciated. Question: Are all of the bottles you listed 7 ounce and *identical in style/shape?* As for the mold numbers, based on what I've seen those typically range from 1 to 10 and possibly as high as 20. Its the higher numbers such as 49 that I'm trying to make sense of. I don't think the higher double-digit numbers have anything to do with the acl label, but they must be related to something. Please tell us about the two 49 bottles you listed. What do they have in common and what do they not have in common, or are they identical in every aspect? Thanks


All of the (G) 700 bottles referenced earlier are 7 oz green bottles, and all Squirt. The numbers appear to have nothing whatsoever related to the date. I have a 1939 (K lip) and 1945 (Q lip) that both have the number 17 on the bottom. The bottles that have the number 49 on the bottom date to (M 1941) and (S 1947).  I have an 8 that dates (L 1940) and a 10 that dates (S 1947).  I have two 25's, one is from (R 1946) and (S 1947).  I'm sure if anybody can figure that randomness out it will be you ...or you'll die trying....hopefully you'll stop before that. []


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bob Thanks - making progress - maybe - I hope Heck, you're the one doing all the work.  I'm just kickin' back askin' questions. Next question: Is there any correlation between the higher numbers and *location*?  For example; Are both of the 43 bottles from the same *state, town, region, etc.*? And what about the two 25's, any location connection with them?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*~  **Observations thus far ... Regarding the Squirt [G] 700 bottles  ~* 1.  The double-digit numbers such as 25, 49, 63, are not related to dates.2.  The same numbers are probably not mold numbers.3.  The numbers are probably not related to the acl labels.4.  The numbers are probably not related to the color of the glass. 5.  The common denominator with the 700 number is that all of the bottles are 7 Ounce and all     are the same size and shape. Thus, I believe the 700 number is the basic "style" number. 6.  The single-digit numbers 1 through 10 are probably mold numbers. 7.  Which leaves the higher double-digit numbers unaccounted for.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Just for the record regarding the color of the glass  ... I have a *clear* glass, 7 ounce "Crown Beverages" Glenshaw bottle marked with *[G] 700 62*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

My "Crown Beverages" bottle is packed away and this is the only picture of it I currently have. I'll dig it out later and take a picture of the base and check to see where it's from ...


----------



## squirtbob

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Bob Thanks - making progress - maybe - I hope Heck, you're the one doing all the work.  I'm just kickin' back askin' questions. Next question: Is there any correlation between the higher numbers and *location*?  For example; Are both of the 43 bottles from the same *state, town, region, etc.*? And what about the two 25's, any location connection with them?


I thought about that also, but I don't see any correlation at all.  Bottles with number11 from Illinois and New Jersey and Delaware. 43 from Kentucky and Maryland. 57 in Maryland and North Dakota,  10 from Ohio and Wisconsin.  And the clincher I have several bottles from Cumberland, Maryland 16,17,17,61,57,43.  The lowest number anywhere was 6 and it was not the oldest and also from Kentucky.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Thanks! I'm just heading out for the day and will get back to you later.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bob I'm working on an idea regarding the higher double-digit numbers but first would like to ask if the bottles marked with 43, 57, 61, etc., also have a single-digit number ranging between 1 and 20 that accompany the higher number?  In other words, are any of your Squirt bottles marked as follows or in any way similar to this ...                                                          *[G]  700  43  2* If they do have lower numbers between 1 and 20, which could be mold numbers, then that could possibly eliminate the higher numbers as being mold numbers, thus isolating the higher numbers for further examination.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

In other-other words, here's an example of what I'm working on and hoping to confirm ... *[G] = Glenshaw Glass Company Box-G Logo**700 = Bottle Style/Shape/Size (7 Ounces)**2 = Mold Number**43 = ?*


----------



## squirtbob

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> In other-other words, here's an example of what I'm working on and hoping to confirm ... *[G] = Glenshaw Glass Company Box-G Logo**700 = Bottle Style/Shape/Size (7 Ounces)**2 = Mold Number**43 = ?*


On none of the Glenshaw Squirt bottles that I have that lip date from 1939 to 1953 is there ever an additional number. Always,  [G] above 700 above a number. This appears to have changed in 1954.  I have a SQUIRT bottle with a "Z" on the lip.  The base is marked [G] 54 above 12-(dash)700.  The Z is consistent with the 1954 date and it is consistent with the advertising on the back of the bottle. This bottle is of course green.  I also have a Glenshaw Golden Eagle Beverages bottle that has a lip code "A" (for 1955) and is marked on the bottom [G] 55 above 20-(dash)700.  The Golden Eagle bottle is clear glass.  Do you have a Glenshaw bottle that is larger than 7 oz. to confirm what the number 700 may mean. I just checked and all my Glenshaw bottles are 7 oz. Back to you Bob. Your turn.


----------



## RED Matthews

Regarding mold numbers, when we ran a set of molds thru each half of a mold would have the same number on each half.  Expecting them to stay together as belonging together.  If it was an active job the quantities would often be up to 50, if the job was running on two machines at the same time.  I never paid much attention to the details - the plant identity would be on the bottom plate and usually with the job number.  RED Mattthews


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*                                                       Two-replies-in-one !* For squirtbob: I have looked but not found any Glenshaw bottles marked with [G] 700 that were larger than 7 ounces. Everything I've seen so far with [G] 700 were 7 ounces and made in either green or clear glass and all were the same style/shape. However, I did find an anomaly I'm still researching and trying to make sense of. It involves two *a**pparently identical* 7 ounce bottles except that one is marked *[G]56 700-18 *and the other one is marked *[G]59 1592-3   *I'll tell you more about them just as soon as I come up with something concrete.                                                             *     ~ * ~* For:  Red Matthews Thanks for sharing your years of experience with us. I was hoping you'd drop by and help us out. But I must confess, I'm a little confused. Are you saying some bottles have "two" identical mold numbers on the same bottle?  If so, are they on the heel or the base?  I've never seen any bottles like the one's you described. But perhaps I misunderstood what you meant. Also, when you said "the quantities would often be up to 50," did you mean that each bottle machine had 25 individual molds?  Lastly, what do you mean by "job number," and was this number embossed on the bottles? Thanks again. Hope to hear from you soon. Bob


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

squirtbob: Here's a picture of one of the so called "anomaly" bottles I referred to. I don't have a picture of the other one, I only have a description of it. Both bottles are a brand called "Jefferson Beverages" from Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania and depict an image of the famous Groundhog. This particular example is marked ... *[G]59 1592-3* There was no mention of a lip code, but I believe it might be a 1959 bottle. The reason I say "might" is because the charts say the later double-digit year codes ended in 1958 with a D. But if this isn't a 1959 bottle, then we're back to wondering what the number 59 represents. The way I decipher it currently is ... *[G] = Glenshaw Box-G logo**59 = 1959**1592 = Style/shape**3 = Mold Number* 1.  Front2.  Back3.  Base


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the link and description for the other Jefferson Beverages bottle that doesn't have a picture of the entire bottle nor one of the base. The only picture is of the neck which is clear glass. It sounds similar/identical? to the last one I posted, but it might not be. Apparently it's marked with ...

*[G] 56 18 700*



http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1956-jefferson-bottling-works-42546435

"7 ounce Jefferson Bottling Works groundhog logo bottle Punxsutawney, PA
Glass maker mark is G within a square, Glenshaw Glass (faint)  
Also on bottom: 56 18 700"


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. I'm currently searching for pictures of another Jefferson *[G] 56 18 700* bottle for confirmation of the codes and will post those pictures if/when I find any.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S ~ P.S.                       The "anomaly" aspect of the two Jefferson Beverages bottles is ... *If *the two bottles turn out to be identical, then why does one have a style number 700 and the other one has a style number 1592    ???


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Man-o-man, I must be losing my marbles. I just looked at the listing for the Jefferson bottle again and discovered the 1592 is a *12 Ounce* bottle and not a 7 ounce bottle. I can't believe I missed seeing that the first time but suppose its because I get mushy-brained after looking at so many bottles. The good news is, it appears 1592 represents a 12 Ounce bottle, which in turn means that 700 must represent a 7 Ounce bottle, at least in the case of the Jefferson Beverages bottles. But whether this same formula applies to all Glenshaw bottles still remains to be seen. Hence, now I'm thinking ... 700 is the style code for a 7 ounce Jefferson Beverages acl bottle 1592 is the style code for a 12 ounce Jefferson Beverages acl bottle My apologies for the mix up, but at least it gives us some more clues to work with! Here's the link for the 12 Ounce Jefferson bottle. Check it out! http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1959-jefferson-bottling-works-407589362  (However, this still doesn't solve everything, especially the numbers 56 and 59, which may or may not be date codes)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Confirmation ... I was unable to enlarge the image of the 12 ounce Jefferson bottle, but if you look closely at this cropped enhancement you'll clearly see the *12 FL. OZ. *where I placed the red arrow ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Hey, squirtbob                                           Happy Halloween ~ Trick? or Treat? Now the pumpkin (ball) is back in your court! Find us s'more of the 1592 Glenshaw bottles. I'll bet you a bag of candy they're all 12 Ounce bottles!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's one example to get you started ...    http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-1960s-solon-springs-12-oz-red-480201857


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

* ~ More Halloween Tricks  ~* *                            Remember this Glenshaw bottle patent number 111,212 * *                                           Well, it wasn't used just for Hires bottles * *http://www.ebay.com/itm/SPARKLING-JOY-BEVERAGES-HERMINIE-PA-QUART-ACL-SODA-BOTTLE-SEVEN-UP-BOTTLING-CO-/281482126862?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4189a4660e*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Oh-oh! [:-] What's this? A similar bottle patented in 1936? No wonder the Hires Company didn't use patent 111,212 - it's because they used their own patent 99,839 ...


1.  Hires Patent 99,839 ~ 1936

https://www.google.com/patents/USD99839?dq=99839+bottle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=-VtUVMj_BcGtyATu4oCwBw&ved=0CCQQ6AEwAQ


2.  Glenshaw Patent 111,212 ~ 1938

https://www.google.com/patents/USD111212?dq=111212+bottle&hl=en&sa=X&ei=M1pUVPP8FtiqyAS0mIHQBw&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAA

Hmm ... Talk about tricks!  I wonder how the Glenshaw Company got away with that?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I can only speak for myself, but these bottles kind of look the same to me ... 1.  Hires Patent2.  Joy / Glenshaw Patent


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Okay, I see the difference now! On the Hires bottle the swirly rings start on the shoulder and progress upwards. Whereas on the Glenshaw bottle the swirly rings start on the shoulder and progress downwards. Yeah, right! If Hires had taken Glenshaw to court, do you think a judge & jury would actually have allowed such a slight difference?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I'm still researching style codes and have found some interesting stuff. Of particular interest are various Mountain Dew bottles made by Glenshaw with the following style numbers on the base. I need to do some more cross-checking to confirm the correlations, but so far have found consistency with ... Note:  All of the Mt. Dew bottles listed are, of course, made of green glass and except for the NDNR bottle are ACLs. *[G] 2247 = 8 Ounce **[G] 2227 = 10 Ounce**[G] 1376 = 12 Ounce**[G] 3149 = 10 Ounce Embossed No Deposit No Return*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I'm in the process of "collecting" pictures of Glenshaw soda bottles that have style numbers on the base and currently have 30 different brands. That may not seem like a lot, but because it takes so long to search and find them, I think its a good start. I categorize them sequentially by number and they appear in my files as such for easy viewing. I have already found common characteristics between many of them and continue to look for more. Unfortunately, because the seller's are not familiar with Glenshaw soda bottles, about 98% of them do no mention lip codes, hence it is impossible to categorize them by date, which is something I'd like to do but will be impossible at this time. The most common style number of all are those marked with *1937 *on the base. I have found the following brands marked with 1937, all of which are *7 ounce *bottles. The only confirmed lip codes I have for these bottles are the Tom Tucker that I own, which is marked on the lip with an "R" for 1946, and the Champay bottle, which is marked on the lip with an "I" for 1937. However, based on the look of these particular bottles, my guess is they are all from the late 1930s to the mid 1940s.


*Style Number 1937 Glenshaw Soda Bottles*

*    All of which have the Box-G Logo [G]*

*      All of which are 7 Ounce Bottles*

*    All of which have ACL/Painted Labels*


*                  ~ * ~*


*       Champay ~ Green ~ "I" Lip Code*
*          Fan Beverages ~ Clear*
*           Golden Life ~ Clear*
*         Joe Louis Punch ~ Clear*
*            Old Kerry ~ Clear*
*     Tom Tucker ~ Green ~ "R" Lip Code*
*              Twins ~ Clear* 


*[ Attachments ~ Examples of Green and Clear Glass ~ The solo numbers are mold numbers ]*


----------



## cowseatmaize

What about crown vs screw top? Is the NDNR crown and have you seen a lip marked bottle on a screw thread?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

cowseatmaize said:
			
		

> What about crown vs screw top? Is the NDNR crown and have you seen a lip marked bottle on a screw thread?



So far every bottle I've seen a reference for and saved a picture of is a Crown top, including the NDNR Mountain Dew Bottle. Remember, the lips codes apparently ceased in 1958, and most screw tops came later than 1958. But even with this said, if the screw tops didn't have lip codes, you'd think I would be finding 1959 and later Glenshaw bottles that have screw tops. But the truth is, I haven't seen a single Glenshaw bottle of any kind that has a screw top and beginning to wonder if they ever made them.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*The "Style Numbers" I'm currently working with are as follows, which are various sizes, shapes and colors, all of which are Crown tops and are ACLs ...*

*                    159 - 305 - 320 - 700 - 721 - 778 - 957 - 1180 - 1247 - 1257*
*                   1360 - 1376 - 1385 - 1592 - 1632 - 1680 - 1825 - 1933 - 1937 *


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the base of the NDNR Mountain Dew bottle                                 (I forgot to include the style number in my list)                                                        It's marked with ... *                                                        3149  1  [G]  69*               I'm about 98% certain this is a post 1958 double-digit date code for *1969*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> *The "Style Numbers" I'm currently working with are as follows, which are various sizes, shapes and colors, all of which are Crown tops and are ACLs ...*
> 
> *                    159 - 305 - 320 - 700 - 721 - 778 - 957 - 1180 - 1247 - 1257*
> *                   1360 - 1376 - 1385 - 1592 - 1632 - 1680 - 1825 - 1933 - 1937 *


         In fact, I messed up and forgot several Style Numbers. Here are the missing one's ...           *                                   1977 - 2227 - 2247 - 3149*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Just for the record, here's the Mountain Dew 3149 1 [G] 69 NDNR (10 Ounce) bottle ...              I haven't checked yet, but its possible other sizes (12 Ounce) have a different style number ???


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Two Post In One  ... 1.  I can't find a Mountain Dew 12 Ounce NDNR Bottle made by "anyone" and suspect they only       came in 10 Ounce. 2.  This recent forum thread (that I somehow missed when it first posted in September 2014)     shows two Glenshaw screw top bottles made in 1975. One is a Pepsi and the other is a 7up.     However, the member doesn't say much about them. But it only stands to reason that where     there are two Glenshaw screw top bottles, there must be more of them!                                                            Here's the link ...   https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/1975-Glenshaw-Glass-soda-bottles-m663143.aspx


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## RED Matthews

So for what it is worth, Glenshaw Glass used to be a good customer of mine, when I was selling HR metal for mold equipment and other alloys for other parts, like dead plates and orifice ring inserts.  Their products are too new for my collecting and studies.  RED M.


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## Ridgwaters

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> cowseatmaize said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about crown vs screw top? Is the NDNR crown and have you seen a lip marked bottle on a screw thread?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So far every bottle I've seen a reference for and saved a picture of is a Crown top, including the NDNR Mountain Dew Bottle. Remember, the lips codes apparently ceased in 1958, and most screw tops came later than 1958. But even with this said, if the screw tops didn't have lip codes, you'd think I would be finding 1959 and later Glenshaw bottles that have screw tops. But the truth is, I haven't seen a single Glenshaw bottle of any kind that has a screw top and beginning to wonder if they ever made them.
Click to expand...

Hi, I'm not a bottle collector but found this bottle on my property and was researching it's age when I found this forum. It is a screw top bottle, is seven ounces, and has the square with a G in it indicating that it is a Glenshaw bottle. There is no code at all on the lip because it is a twist off bottle. The only thing on the very bottom is a 7 right in the middle with knurling around the perimeter of the bottom. The bottle is green and the only other markings are found just above the bottom written on the side. The markings are:  The square with the "G" in it, then 96 E 3407. The 0 in 3407 is kind of 'blobby' but it looks like an 0 more than anything else. I would post pics but can't easily figure out how to. I just wanted to let you know that apparently Glenshaw did make 7oz twist off bottles at some point. I would be glad to send you pics to a provided email.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Ridgwaters Welcome to the forum It sounds like you found a *1996 *bottle. Glenshaw Glass Company was still operating at that time and celebrated their 100th anniversary in 1995. Even though no screw top examples surfaced during the course of this discussion, I recently found the one pictured below that is a 1975 Pepsi Cola with a screw top. I also came across a 7up bottle from the 1970s that had a screw top. What intrigues me most about your bottle isn't that it's a screw top but more so because it apparently is not embossed with a brand name such as Pepsi, 7up, Mt Dew. It must have originally had a foil or paper label, which is somewhat uncommon for a 1990s bottle but not entirely unheard of. Posting pictures here is simple and similar to how you would post one on an email. The easiest method is to click where it says (Open Full Version) which will open a new window where you will see a box at the bottom that says ...                                                             [Upload file(s) to the server]         Click on that box and it should take you to your photo files where you can transfer the image of choice                                         Thanks for sharing - we look forward to seeing your bottle!  [Attachment] 1975 Glenshaw screw top Pepsi Cola bottle


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## RED Matthews

They wee a good customer for our Dameron HR metals for mold equipment.  RED Matthews


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## Ridgwaters

SODAPOPBOB said:
			
		

> Ridgwaters Welcome to the forum It sounds like you found a *1996 *bottle. Glenshaw Glass Company was still operating at that time and celebrated their 100th anniversary in 1995. Even though no screw top examples surfaced during the course of this discussion, I recently found the one pictured below that is a 1975 Pepsi Cola with a screw top. I also came across a 7up bottle from the 1970s that had a screw top. What intrigues me most about your bottle isn't that it's a screw top but more so because it apparently is not embossed with a brand name such as Pepsi, 7up, Mt Dew. It must have originally had a foil or paper label, which is somewhat uncommon for a 1990s bottle but not entirely unheard of. Posting pictures here is simple and similar to how you would post one on an email. The easiest method is to click where it says (Open Full Version) which will open a new window where you will see a box at the bottom that says ...                                                             [Upload file(s) to the server]         Click on that box and it should take you to your photo files where you can transfer the image of choice                                         Thanks for sharing - we look forward to seeing your bottle!  [Attachment] 1975 Glenshaw screw top Pepsi Cola bottle



Here's a pic. It's about 6 3/4 tall and looks like a miniature long neck beer bottle. Thanks for you assistance, it doesn't sound like it's valuable. I just wanted to check into it before I trashed it.


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## Brunehilda Hudnut

Are you still interested in copies of the Glenshaw Glassette?  I have some from (probably )war years edited by Jean Meyer Capes.  Are you still gathering information on Glenshaw Glass?


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