# Welch's Grape Juice Bottle



## nym9nyj7

I'm new to collecting, and one of my first purchases, at a tag sale, was an empty Welch's Grape Juice Bottle.  For lack of a better photO, it's the exact same bottle as shown in this advertisement:

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-magazine-ad-WELCHS-GRAPE-JUICE-picturing-the-bottle-and-grapes-n-mint-cond-/400275742673?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d324b1fd1

 I've searched high and low, but unfortunatly I haven't even seen a real photo of this bottle online, let alone found any information on it.  Can anyone help?  

 THANKS!!  []

 P.S. The last label copyright date on the bottle is '36, although I am at work, so I can't be 100% certain of that.  I do know, however, that it's 1930-something.


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## OsiaBoyce

Ok, you have determined by yourself.

 A. It's from Welches.
 B. It contained grape juice.
 D. It's from the 1930's.
 E. What ever you paid for it sets the value.
 F. You can find advertisements to match your bottle.

 So what exactly do you want to find  out about this bottle?

 If you are looking for the manufacturer......look on the bottom of the bottle.
 That should give you their name/logo and production date.


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## nym9nyj7

Osia - thanks for your response!

 D) I was under the impression that just because a label copyright gives a certain date, doesn't mean that bottle was made on that date, or even in that decade.  Am I mistaken?  Is a copyright like a patent where it has to be renewed every so often?  If so, how often?

 E) I understand what you're saying about value, but I bought it from a bunch of 90 year old ladies who were selling their old junk to benefit the local historical society.  I don't think any of us, myself included, had or have any idea of value to the greater bottle collecting community.  Yes, to me it was worth at least what I paid, but for all I know it could be one-of-a-kind and highly sought after!  []  I doubt it, but you see what I'm getting at.

 When I look up my bottles online, I just am interested in finding out not only the value, but also the history of it and the company.  How old it is.  Where it was made.  How common those bottles were/are.  How hard it is to find them in good condition (mine has a very good label and about 60% of the original foil wrapping on the neck).  For how long that bottle was used before the company went with another design, paper label, or applied colour label.  What was it originally used for (individual sales, restaurant use, commercial use, etc.).  You know, things of that nature.  Everything has a story, and I just want to learn it, so that when someone says "hey, that's cool," I can respond with some tid-bits.

 By the way, the last label copyright was 1925 - my bad.  Also, the bottom has an "18," a "6," and a "5," all surrounding an an oval overlapping a diamond with an "I" in the middle.  I'm guessing that shape/letter refer to the production company?


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## epackage

That would be an Illinois Glass mark and it's either a 1935 or 6 depending on which number is on the right of the diamond, as for value I could see a bottle with a near perfect label and foil top in the $20-30 range. I doubt there's much in the way of rarity considering the market share Welch's held when it came to grape juice, even though you don't see many change hands the way you do soda bottles. As for the labels they could be printed at any period and applied at much later dates if need be, I'd like to see the pic of your personal example...Jim


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## RED Matthews

hello nym9nyj7   Your Welch's Grape Juice bottle was made by Owens Illinois Glass Company; One of the numbers tells the plant, another the mold number and the third is the year.  I would have to know their location to tell you which is which.   

 When I was farming here in NY the Concord Grapes were all contracted to go to Welch's Grape Juice, because that was an coop growers -owners corporation.  Good stuff.  

 I assume from your FORUM name you are in New York State.  If so are you near Watkins Glen or Corning NY.???
 RED Matthews


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## surfaceone

> Also, the bottom has an "18," a "6," and a "5," all surrounding an an oval overlapping a diamond with an "I" in the middle. I'm guessing that shape/letter refer to the production company?


 
 Hello Jared,

 Welcome to the A=BN, and thanks for telling us of your Welch's bottle.







 Here's an earlier Welch's from one of our members:




From.


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## RED Matthews

Thanks surface one.  I was going to go check my copy of your chart and get back to him with it.  You beat me to it. 

 I was checking out the big fraud  BRONZE MASON JAR on eBay and my computer locked upon me so I had to turn it off and talk to my Grandson and then get it back up.  I can't believe the write up on this eBay listing.

 RED Matthews


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## nym9nyj7

Guys, thanks so much for the responses and all the info - this is great stuff!

*Jim* - it's dark here now and my indoor photos aren't coming out well, so I'll snap some outdoor shots tomorrow and upload them before the day is out.  Also, it's the 6 that's to the right of the logo, thus the date of production would be 1936, right?  How are you able to differentiate it from a bottle produced in '26 or '46?

*Red* - I am indeed from New York!  However, I'm down in Carmel (1 hour north of NYC), so the Corning area is about 4 hours away.
*
 Surface* - Thanks for the chart.  The number 18 on my bottle is on the left hand side, so according to the chart it would have been made in Columbus, Ohio.  However, on the chart, it says "Columbus, Ohio -- Switched 1947."  What does that mean, "switched?"  

 Also, my bottle does not have a number/letter above the logo, just empty space.  According to the chart that's where the "container style number should be."  Does the lack of this number tell us anything about when the bottle was made?  Was there a point in time when these numbers weren't used, or did it just differ from plant to plant?

 Just caught this: on the side of the bottle, right above the base, "E 762" is embossed.  Any idea what that could be in reference to?

 Also, that's an awesome bottle in the photo!  So tiny though...  Some kind of concentrate I'm guessing?


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## epackage

> ORIGINAL:  nym9nyj7
> 
> 
> Also, it's the 6 that's to the right of the logo, thus the date of production would be 1936, right?  How are you able to differentiate it from a bottle produced in '26 or '46?


 Yes it's 36', they weren't in business using this system in 26 and if it were 46 there would be a "dot" next to the number, if it were 56 it most likely would have had both numbers...


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## surfaceone

> However, on the chart, it says "Columbus, Ohio -- Switched 1947." What does that mean, "switched?"


 
 Jared,

 According to Columbus Biz Journal:

 "The industrial redevelopment site on Jenkins Avenue began as the Winslow Glass Co. that made milk bottles, a use that by 1946 had evolved into a production facility for glass components for televisions."




your bottle's birth place.

 I would think that in this case "switched" has to do with a complete production change, from bottles to TV tubes.

 As a beginning collector, I wouldn't be too concerned with the arcane numerology of old glass bottles, beyond a certain point. Daviid Whitten's Excellent Site, is a boon to those seeking the maker's mark codes and periods of usage.

 A couple other great sites may also be of interest to you; Bill Lindsey's SHA site, and our own RED Matthews' Bottle Mysteries.

 So where the heck are those photos of your Welch's?  [8D]




From.


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## nym9nyj7

Thanks for that article, Surface, this is all starting to make sense now!  

 After reading it, I was confused as to how you connected the Winslow Glass Company to Owens-Illinois.  So I searched and came up with this (not sure if you're as interested as I am, but I'll include the snip-it anyway): 

 In 1904 the Berney Glass Company and the Bond Glass Company merged to form the Berney-Bond Glass Company, which, in 1927, bought the Winslow Glass Company.  Just three years later, however, it was the Owens-Illinios Glass Company that bought the Berney-Bond Glass Company and all of its plants.  

 Thus, my bottle could not have been made before 1930, because the Columbus, Ohio O-I plant did not exist until then.  According to the second article I found, all O-I bottles made at the Columbus plant between 1930 and 1945 were only identified with a single number in the date area.  However, in 1946, the Columbus plant began to use double-digits.  Thus, as Jim said, the bottle HAS to have been made in 1936.  []

 On a side note, the article I found also says that bottles produced at the Columbus plant have been found with date codes as late as '48.  This is a year later than the diagram above says they were "switched" and two years later than the Business First article suggests they were converted.  I'm sure somewhere between the three of them the truth doth lie.  []

 Anywho, here are some shots of my bottle!


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## RED Matthews

Hello nym9nyj7;   I am not quite sure what imperfection you are seeing.  I have to assume it is the waviness of the bottle heal glass.  The picture really is confusing to me, but it that is what I think it is, it looks like impaired air venting in that area of the mold.  This can happen when a mold starts to have swabbing oil build up on the venting slots of knife filed vents.  What does a straight on bottom picture show?   RED Matthews


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## nym9nyj7

Hey Red,

 Thanks for your expertise!  That's exactly what I was pointing out.  When I had the bottle standing up on a table, and I was crouched down to take a photo at the same level, I noticed that the inside floor of the bottle was deformed with roughly 1/4 of it (left side of the photo) being lower than the other 3/4.  Was just curious as to how that could have come to be and you answered my question - thanks!!!

 On a different note, I thought the label was in pretty good shape (see photo 4), until I noticed those little dots (see photo 3).  Are those something that would have been done on purpose by the bottler, or is it something that was just done by some person sometime during the past 75 years?


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## PattyJubin

nym9nyj7 said:


> I'm new to collecting, and one of my first purchases, at a tag sale, was an empty Welch's Grape Juice Bottle.  For lack of a better photO, it's the exact same bottle as shown in this advertisement:
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-magazi...673?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d324b1fd1
> 
> I've searched high and low, but unfortunatly I haven't even seen a real photo of this bottle online, let alone found any information on it.  Can anyone help?
> 
> THANKS!!  []
> 
> P.S. The last label copyright date on the bottle is '36, although I am at work, so I can't be 100% certain of that.  I do know, however, that it's 1930-something.


funny,   i am just now labeling my bottles and ran across a welches. old bottle.   the top is lopsided so i am assuming its quite old.  also it has an  F or a P   on the bottom of bottle.  I do not see any other marking from owens glass company or any other company.    The glass is very thick and i can barely see the name Welchs grape juice  on the bottle.  It has a  rectangle around the name.


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