# Waw-Waw & We-Li-Ka



## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

Hello all, I am making a thread on Waw-Waw & We-Li-Ka Bottles. I am dedicating this thread to Jim (Botlguy). I will post my research here, and hopefully find out what We-Li-Ka really was and more about Waw-Waw. If anyone knows of anything that may be of help, just comment, post a link, picture, or anything little thing that may help.I will be posting new findings as I find them.Thanks! So far, I know for sure that Waw-Waw was a sauce bottle. We-Li-Ka is most likely either a sauce or poison with very similar shape to a Waw-Waw. Member Bert DeWitt has brought the We-Li-Ka bottle to my attention. HERE is his thread.Pictures of his bottle: Measures 6 "1/4 in height.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





What looks like 510/ 4/ 4 embossed on base?


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

In comparison to a Waw-Waw bottle, this one only measures 3 1/2" tall.


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

First, I will post information I have on Waw-Waw so far.Different variants have been found in Australia, US, & Great Britian.An old ebay listing calls it an "Indian Steak Sauce". It could have been pepper sauce or hot sauce also. 3 1/2" Clear variant sold on eBay. $8.19 + S&H. Forum Threads on Waw-Waw:3 1/2" aqua THREAD.3 1/2" (Rd No 421474 1693 on base) THREAD. Here is a British Reg. No. Below, From 1903.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Embossed: Rd No 421474 8047. ABotlguy's THREAD. There are 4 different sizes that I know of:3 1/2" small size, 7 1/2" medium size, 9" large size, & a screw top ABM wide mouth jar.  As far as I know, they come in clear, aqua and SCA (Possibly some were irradiated).  I will talk about lip finishes on my next reply.


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

Pictures from Botlguy:


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## Bert DeWitt (Jul 17, 2014)

The WE-LI-KA I posted is seamed diagonally and I believe it runs all the way to the lip of the bottle if that helps to identify how it was made.


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## Bert DeWitt (Jul 17, 2014)

May be only seemed to the bottom of the lip I can't remember.


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## Bert DeWitt (Jul 17, 2014)

None of the Waw-Waws look like they have a seam.


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

So far I have found 4 different lip finishes, not including the odd jar.Here is what Botlguy calls the Type #2 & Type #5, would have had a metal type closure.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Here is a pic of the Waw-waw Indian Sauce label:


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

An interesting article clip, Alart & McGuire Co. using the name Waw-Waw. HERE is the link.


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

Bert DeWitt said:
			
		

> The WE-LI-KA I posted is seamed diagonally and I believe it runs all the way to the lip of the bottle if that helps to identify how it was made.





			
				Bert DeWitt said:
			
		

> May be only seemed to the bottom of the lip I can't remember.




If the seam runs all the way through the lip, then it is ABM.I assume that the Waw-Waw bottles have seams that either stop half way up the neck, or go all the way through the lip.


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

I copied this from Eric (Cowseatmaize), hope you don't mind:HERE is the link.WAW-WAW SAUCE AND CONCENTRATED OUTDOOR ADVERTISING. From 1910

LONDON TAKEN BY STORM AT THE STRANDâ€”SAME METHODS FOLLOWED HEREâ€”DIRECT EFFECT ON JOBBERSâ€”ALE AND STOUT SIMULTANEOUSLY INTRODUCED.

Londoners do not take sudden surprises without serious consideration. Eight years ago they awoke one bright morning to find their beloved Strand, their city's heart of hearts, emblazoned with the virtues and qualities of a new brand of sauce. There were signs to right of them, signs to left of them, signs in front of them that "volleyed and thundered" and the one message was: "Waw-Waw, Waw-Wawâ€”the Sauce Piquant." 

That was the first public showing ever made in behalf of Waw-Waw Sauce. It made a great impression, and laid the foundation for immense sales. G. L. Vernon, who is the owner of Waw-Waw, and the man responsible for WawWaw advertising, has this to say about his methods: "You see what I wished to accomplish was an immediate and lasting impression. I knew that the Strand was the center of London, and that every Londoner of any consequence had to pass through it time and time again. I wanted to give them something to think about. If I had hired a signboard here and another there, all over London, I would have covered a much wider territory, but I do not think I would have been getting as satisfactory results. 'Concentration' was my watchword. I bought up every available space suitable for sign purposes in the Strand, and emblazoned the whole street with Waw-Waw advertising. It was unforgettable. It could not be got away from by the very Londoners whom I wanted as consumers, and it brought the resultsâ€”$40,000 in eleven months.

"When I added the words: 'Supplied to the House of Lords and the House of Commons,' my adverting argument was complete". That phrase meant more than the phrase: 'By Royal Warrant,' and every Englishman knew it. If a bit of harness at Buckingham Palace breaks and a groom is hurriedly sent to a little harness shop across the way to get a shilling's worth of leather with which the make repairs, the harness-shop proprietor immediately puts out his sign: 'By Royal Warrant.' But nothing can get on the tables of Parliament until it has been passed upon by a joint committee of the two houses."
[graphic1]

Last September, Mr. Vernon came to New York to introduce Waw-Waw Sauce here, as manager of the St. James Importing Company. He determined to employ the same tactics as abroad, namely, to concentrate in one citv first, New York, and after dominating the situation there, to branch out all over the United States. It happened that, when Mr. Vernon first wished to start his New York outdoor advertising, he found great difficulty in getting the billboard and signboard spaces he wanted, due to the fact that the latter were being monopolized at the time by the politicians who were on the eve of a big local election.

Mr. Vernon had to wait until after the election of Mayor Gaynor, the first week in November, before he could begin his campaign, but then he commenced in earnest. The elevated and subway lines were looked to as especially promising. The stations and the cars soon told the Waw-Waw story in flaring red upon a yellow background. Billboards and signboards have also been used in many sections. As a result of this New York advertising, which has not continued more than five months to date, Mr. Vernon states that he already has 3,500 accounts on his books. He has had to move into larger warehouse quarters.
[graphic2]

EXAMPLES OF CAR CARDS.

One surprising fact about the New York advertising has been the direct effect it has had upon jobbers all over the country, who have written in from as far distant as Seattle, requesting that they be made authorized agents in their several territories. Many such agencies have already been established in various parts of the country. Just at present Mr. Vernon is planning to invade Chicago with outdoor displays in much the same way as he has done in New York, where he says his monthly appropriation has been $5,000.

Asked why he has preferred outdoor advertising to newspaper advertising in New York, Mr. Vernon says: "Newspaper advertising appeals, at it's best, only to distinct classes. One class reads the World, another the Tribune, still another the Herald, and so on. I want to reach all these classes. I would have to use every paper in New York to do so. My outdoor advertising gets them all at one time, in my estimation, and that continuously."

The St. James Importing Company is handling other lines than Waw-Waw. One of these other lines is the ale and stout brewed and bottled by Whitbread & Co., Limited, of London, an old house, established in 1742, and with an excellent reputation. Whitbread is said to spend $300,000 a year in advertising abroad. Whitbread products have been introduced by Mr. Vernon in New York simultaneously with Waw-Waw. and. what is very interesting, along much the same lines. The copy and the appeal in both instances has been distinctively English. "Never be afraid of the place where your goods were made," advises Mr. Vernon. "That's my policy. I don't try to hide the fact that Waw-Waw and Whitbread's Ale are Englishâ€”very English, you know. If I were introducing American-made goods into England, I would reverse the process and emphasize the fact that they came from America. Your Heinz productsâ€”the 57 varietiesâ€”have had a great success in England, and, I believe, because of this very fact, that the phrase: 'Made in America' has been emphasized."


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

Another picture of a Waw-Waw for comparison:


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## botlguy (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks "WHATEVERYOURNAMEIS" / 2find4me for this, you have FAR more computer skills than this old man. The WAW-WAW bottles come in both ABM and hand finished / tooled top. One even has an "Applied Collar" but is NOT  from the 1860 or earlier period, another appears to be pontilled. They are anomalies, one of a kind I suspect. I have been doing some research (attempts) on my own today but our "out in the woods" internet is as slow as a caterpillar. I'll post here when I get the WE-LI-KA from Bert and reveal details.     Jim


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## LisaTammy (Jul 17, 2014)

WE-LI-KA contained pure sweet spirit nitre.http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/66023/2/302000340.txt if that helps any.Lisa


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## LisaTammy (Jul 17, 2014)

```
"We-Li-Ka Brand Pure Sweet Spirit Nitre, U. S. P. Alcohol <br>90%"; (carton) "Packed by Witsell Bros. Mfg. Co., Memphis, Tenn."
```


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## botlguy (Jul 17, 2014)

Oh Boy, now it's some sort of medicine maybe. I'm beginning to think it's a company type name rather than one product. Here's an old A-B.N post that shows still another shape bottle with the same exact name (with the hyphens) in Script font.   https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/quotWe-Li-Kaquot-bottles-m259441.aspx This is getting fun to me. I have to go read up on Sweet Spirit Nitre. 90% alcohol? I-LI-KA Thanks Lisa


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## Bert DeWitt (Jul 17, 2014)

Yes thanks Lisa, I just want to say the other We-li-Ka Pics we are seeing seam to all be embossed We-Li-Ka Jims is embossed WE-LI-KA all caps I don't know if that makes a difference or not.


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks guys for the comments, so now there are 3 different known variants of We-Li-Ka.For comparison:


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

A few more pics/info on Waw-Waw before I move on to We-Li-Ka:3rd from left:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


HERE they call it a "Hot Chili Sauce", from the Waw-Waw label it can be used for many different foods.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  Interesting one on worthpoint, has Alart & McGuire on the label. This is what the label reads:O.K . PEPPER SAUCE GUARANTEED under the food and drug act June 30, 1906, Serial Number 12381 Reg. U. S. PAT. OFFICE 1907 ALART & McGUIRE NEW YORK.It is embossed 705 F on base. This would the 7 1/2" medium size bottle.HERE are 13 Waw-Waw bottles sold on ebay, ranging from 2008-2013. Notice that 9 of them were sold from the UK. Most called them Hot Chili Sauce or Pepper Sauce, one even called it a lemonade bottle. []I will list their links out individually:http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/interesting-waw-waw-sauce-bottle-118560922 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/miniature-sample-size-waw-waw-pyramid-309029441 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/miniature-pyramid-chilli-sauce-bottle-313102776 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/miniature-sample-size-waw-waw-pyramid-466887534 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/miniature-size-waw-waw-pyramid-style-476130397 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/1890s-unusually-shaped-clear-food-485739091 I suggest you take a look at this one. Not sure if you have this variant, its lettering appears to be a bit wider than the rest:http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/victorian-glass-lemonade-bottle-293140824 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/pair-chili-sauce-waw-waw-bottles-140501788 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/small-sample-size-waw-waw-hot-chilli-271127950 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/small-sample-size-waw-waw-hot-chilli-271188773 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/small-sample-size-waw-waw-hot-chilli-271188777 http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/four-chemists-bottles-all-company-424229527 I see your point about the larger ones being harder to find, 8 of them were the 3 1/2" (small size)6 of them were the 7 1/2" (medium size)None of them were the largest 9" size. I have come to a conclusion that the majority (if not all) of Waw-Waw bottles date between 1890-1910.


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## Bert DeWitt (Jul 17, 2014)

So if you read  contained pure sweet spirit nitre.http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/66023/2/302000340.tx The court document posted by Lisa you will notice it is in the 1930 and contained alcohol therefore shouldn't these bottles say Federal law forbids sale or reuse of this bottle?


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## 2find4me (Jul 17, 2014)

Bert DeWitt said:
			
		

> So if you read  contained pure sweet spirit nitre.http://archive.nlm.nih.gov/fdanj/bitstream/123456789/66023/2/302000340.tx The court document posted by Lisa you will notice it is in the 1930 and contained alcohol therefore shouldn't these bottles say Federal law forbids sale or reuse of this bottle?



Yes, Jim's odd jar Waw-Waw should date around the 1930's.When I said that most Waw-Waw date from around 1890-1910, I meant the tee-pee type bottles. I'm sure the company lasted longer than 1910, and the jar is definitely after that.I could be wrong about the metal closure bottles, since most of them are foreign to the US, they do not always follow the rules of dating US bottles. Thank you for bring it to my attention!


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## Bert DeWitt (Jul 17, 2014)

I was unclear about what I was trying to say the WE-LI-KA cort document is in the United States so therefore the WE-LI-KA bottle should say, Federal law forbids sale or reuse of this bottle.


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## 2find4me (Jul 18, 2014)

Waw-waw For Sale.Check this article out HERE.Distributed by the St. James Importing Company of New York and also in London. Waw-waw sold.This seller calls Waw-waw a Pepper Sauce, and he states it was in use between 1880-1920.Sold on eBay,from the UK.


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## 2find4me (Jul 18, 2014)

Now I will research Alart & McGuire Co., one of the companies that distributed Waw-Waw in Brooklyn, NY.First, HERE are some of the bottles they manufactured, looks like mostly pickles, ketchup, and sauce bottles.Check out THIS one, a labeled catsup. LINK






A labeled O.K. Pepper Sauce Waw-Waw.


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## botlguy (Jul 18, 2014)

Hey Bert, we found alcohol in all sorts of products and they did not have to be labeled with the "Forbids" warning. That was for Spirits sold for drinking purposes only between Prohibition (1933 or 34) and 1964. Medicine and other products that contained alcohol were exempt from the taxes applied to drinking spirits. An aside, in reading about Sweet Spirits of Nitre / Niter (spelled both ways) apparently more than a few drops taken internally could be very harmful, even fatal. The instructions ALWAYS said add a few DROPS to a quantity of water or other liquid. Apparently it is basically unavailable in the USA. The court case was about false advertising, not having enough alcohol as required and saying it did.      Jim


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## Bert DeWitt (Jul 18, 2014)

Thank you for clarifying that for me.


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## 2find4me (Jul 18, 2014)

Again, a LINK of the Alart & McGuire Company.I see they also manufactured olives and mustard as well as different sauces and pickles.A labeled Lart Pickles by Alart & McGuire. HERE.HERE is a court case on Alart & McGuire misbranded catsup.Scroll down to page 4 and see a Pickle Contract 1893. LINK.Notice of judgement issued July 13, 1911. LINK.They also misbranded mustard as well as catsup. LINK.Maybe Waw-Waw was also one of their "misbranded" products.HERE they were only fined $25 for misbranding catsup.Alart & McGuire Postcard, LINK.HERE is a link to Alart & McGuire Pickle & Olive Jars, a total of a 11 from worthpoint.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




A patent for one of their pickle jars.


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## 2find4me (Jul 21, 2014)

Before I move onto We-Li-Ka, I will talk about one more company that distributed Waw-Waw,The St. James Importing Company. (New York)HERE is a certificate about Waw-Waw. There is not much to talk about on this company, so I will move onto We-Li-Ka.


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

[font="arial black,avant garde"]*[] We-Li-Ka 
*[/font]





 Bert DeWitt's Thread, HERE.Six related threads, HERE.Before I begin searching, I suspect it is most likely a sauce."we li ka hei" means a bit for boring rock in the Hawaiian language.Possibility to the origin, HERE. The Battle of We-Li-Ka in the Second Seminole war. 19 July 1836 - Battle of Welika Pond near Micanopy. Army command evacuating Fort Drane is attacked by a large Seminole force just before they reach Micanopy. They are saved by reinforcements from Micanopy Micanopy, Florida. Welika Pond Battle History.


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 23, 2014)

I'm curious. Why is the pesticide theory not included? [8|]


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

I may have found a good lead.
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



LINKWe-Li-Ka Pure Ground Spice Packed by Witsell Bros; Dean Lilly Co., Memphis, Tennessee. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


LINKWe-Li-Ka POWERS & WEIGHTMAN QUININE, Bottled by WITSELL BROS. MFG. CO., Memphis, Tenn. Six related We-Li-Ka items, including We-Li-Ka Aspirin. Worthpoint


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

cowseatmaize said:
			
		

> I'm curious. Why is the pesticide theory not included? [8|]



Don't worry I'm getting to that.


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 23, 2014)

NICE WORK !!!It looks like I  jumped to contusions. []Still in Memphis,Tennessee a see though, interesting?Ssm corp
5050 poplar ave.- suite 721
Memphis, TN 38157
Company Number: 001267


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

Cows We-Li-Ka F & I Insecticide theory.IngredientsInfoCan't find much on this company, I doubt thats what the the bottle is, but its cetainly possible.Welika Florida, is a Historic town in Wakulla County. LINK


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

cowseatmaize said:
			
		

> NICE WORK !!!It looks like I  jumped to contusions. []Still in Memphis,Tennessee a see though, interesting?Ssm corp
> 5050 poplar ave.- suite 721
> Memphis, TN 38157
> Company Number: 001267



Its possible they could have made many different products under the name We-Li-Ka from the same company in Memphis, Tennessee. It would be strange if they made medicine/food related products and pesticide though. Quite a coincidence.


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 23, 2014)

I couldn't either Sharon but that is what came up first in my brief venture. Maybe it was a dual enterprise? [8|]


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## botlguy (Jul 23, 2014)

You guys are TOO MUCH! Too Much GOOD! 2find4me, are you sure you're only 14? Come on man, you lying to me? [] Don't go getting big headed on us and think you know EVERYTHING about bottle collecting but as far as online research you have proven yourself. Thank you for your efforts.  Now go outside and play Kick the Can! (Bet you never played that game) []


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 23, 2014)

If she said that, well, lying about age is a women's prerogative. []


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

Now to research Witsell Bros.They also made Dean's Mustard. LINKWitsell Bros from Memphis HERE Also in Alabama?Witsell Bros. Mfg. Co. is an Foreign Corporation business incorporated in Tennessee, Alabama, USA on November 30, 1999. The entity activity is DRUGS, SPICES & DRUG SUNDRIES . LINK1933 Case HERE1932 Case HEREHERE is one of there trademarks "Sam-Pan". Maybe We-Li-Ka was another earlier trademark.I think someone already shared this link, but HERE it is again.


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

cowseatmaize said:
			
		

> If she said that, well, lying about age is a women's prerogative. []



I am a guy thank you, [8D]. Sharon is my mom's name.


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## 2find4me (Jul 23, 2014)

botlguy said:
			
		

> You guys are TOO MUCH! Too Much GOOD! 2find4me, are you sure you're only 14? Come on man, you lying to me? [] Don't go getting big headed on us and think you know EVERYTHING about bottle collecting but as far as online research you have proven yourself. Thank you for your efforts.  Now go outside and play Kick the Can! (Bet you never played that game) []



It's more like Kick the Ball now, lol. []But I do get outside a lot, gotta cross country meet in 20 mins!


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## botlguy (Jul 23, 2014)

2find4me said:
			
		

> cowseatmaize said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what I told you guys awhile back! Weren't you paying attention? [] I get no respect here!  [8D][]


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## cowseatmaize (Jul 23, 2014)

I remember, just trying to play the game.It's like Surfaceone, Most will never know know the person behind the mask.PS: I'm 53, male and my name is Eric.Also, I'm not asking for a date with your mom.Is she she available though? [][][][][]OK, I'm done.


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