# Religious artifacts of dead cultures...



## reallyrs (Nov 8, 2009)

In my wheelings and dealings, once upon a time I knew this archaeologist guy. He told me he had been working on a dig in China, some dam had been built 1200-1500 years ago which, as dams are wont to do, flooded a valley. Fast forward to the late 20th century, and either the dam was taken down, or drought, or whatever, but now this guy and his cohort are in China looting archaeological treasures from the once flooded valley. Maybe ima sucker, but I thought they looked cool, so I got a few. Allegedly they are all jade, I have a red one, a white one and an imperial green jade, all of different designs/ shapes/ poses of dragons, and one of this long beaked bird head. Unfortunately, the other ones are in my safety deposit box.
          So what do you think? Does that sound like a feasible story? Does anyone know anything about this kind of stuff?
  Here are some pics...
            http://s850.photobucket.com/albums/ab64/looketdis/ring/spoon/Jade/


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## epackage (Nov 8, 2009)

To be honest it sounds pretty shady and alot like they are thieves, just my opinion but I am totally turned off by the story, sorry.
                Jim


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## RED Matthews (Nov 8, 2009)

Hi again,  You must have a knak for picking up good stuff.  Sorry but I can't be of much help on this one.  Study hard and the research should help gain some sense of value.
 neat stuff.  RED Matthews


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## cyberdigger (Nov 8, 2009)

I have seen enough Indiana Jones flicks to believe that story, but I would have absolutely no way whatsoever of being able to help you verify it.. any rate,  I am sure the situation is being handled by ... top men...


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## epackage (Nov 8, 2009)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> I have seen enough Indiana Jones flicks to believe that story, but I would have absolutely no way whatsoever of being able to help you verify it.. any rate,Â  I am sure the situation is being handled by ... top men...


 Top Men !!!!


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## reallyrs (Nov 8, 2009)

Hey EPACKAGE that is a cool sign I see there when I click your name, but what is Extra Beer, and why havent I ever had any?!


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## epackage (Nov 8, 2009)

Extra beer is the beer your buddy buys and when he goes to the jukebox in the bar to play some music you drink it, lol. Just a local beer label and they are hard to come by, there is a later one that's more common and comes up on e-bay all the time. This one never comes up and is extremely hard to find....
          Thanx,
                      Jim


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## rockbot (Nov 8, 2009)

Reallyrs, it is very difficult to bring items out of China, not to mention dangerous. Custom officials would be all over you. So just getting it out of the country would have to be illegal. Any goods would need a proof of purchase receipt to clear customs.
 I have no problem with them finding things there since the place was abandoned. I just find it hard to believe that they could legally bring it out of the country.

 Rocky


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## rockbot (Nov 9, 2009)

reallyrs, what does the back side look like?

 Rocky


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## reallyrs (Nov 9, 2009)

Now we are getting somewhere... I always thought the story of the origin of this stuff seemed just a little too cool to be true, you know? I DO know that he was an archaeologist, at one time he worked for the state, etc., I know he had a bunch of Asian stuff all over his home, and I believe he was working in China at some point... However, he didnt seem really the type to orchestrate (or even play in) any kind of international smuggling, you know? What you are saying about the difficulty of export makes me wonder if maybe he bought them and had them shipped, like if maybe they are cheapo trinketty knick knacks in China that he bought by the case and sold to suckers like me? Regardless, they are pretty cool looking, and I must admit, I was a wee bit attracted to the idea of looted artifacts. He had a pile of them, all kinds of shapes/ animals, colors, sizes. I met him thru a friend who told me I needed to meet this, "Dr. Evil grave robber-type guy."... I mean serious, if your friend uses a line like that to describe someone, how can you NOT go check it out?
        As for the back sides and front sides, they are pretty near identical, except for minor things like perhaps the corners of the eyes are a bit different, or one engraved line perhaps is a bit thicker, or a slightly different degree of arc in the engraved curves.... I will try to get my camera set for up close detail and take more pics...
         They may have been made on a scroll saw. Everything is polished smooth (the edges I mean), both inside and out. Seems like such a thing would take forever to make, but I guess they dont have Television in China, or something, so what else is there to do??


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## ancientdigger69 (Nov 9, 2009)

i would say that nothing should be trusted coming out of china. they have gotten so good at fakes that they fool professionals sometimes. they do a marvelous job with fossils. especially chinese dinosaur eggs. although neat, i would be very very leary of anything "old" coming out of china. hell, just getting anything out of china is illegal. it is not illegal to bring it into the U.S., but getting it out of china is.


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## reallyrs (Nov 9, 2009)

ok here are some new pics, of both sides, maybe u can see a little better.
       Ha, for all i know, these werent even made in China, but maybe Guatemala for all I know... Thats why I threw em out here, see if maybe anybody did know. I traded I think an old water cabinet/ dresser type thing, some old (like 19teens) photos of the block the guy lived on ( only one building was still recognizable, but still, a rather compelling, if somewhat specialized, trade item), and an old (like 1920's) local insurance company full page ad that had a picture of some relative of his in it. It is amazing the kind of stuff people ask you to "just haul off" in the course of their home being remodeled, you know, boxes of papers/ magazines/photos, etc. It makes me sick to think of how much i threw on the burn pile or in the landfill before my eyes were opened. I would imagine that the advertisements from the magazines of the teens and twenties would have some collectible value, you know, as ad-ons or whatever. So while my stint as a carpenter was not one of my favorite jobs, it certainly had its perks.


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## reallyrs (Nov 9, 2009)

oops forgot link
  here it is
      http://s850.photobucket.com/albums/ab64/looketdis/ring/spoon/Jade/


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## ajohn (Nov 9, 2009)

Depending on the price,I'd of bit.


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## glass man (Nov 9, 2009)

REMINDS ME OF ALL THE LOTTERIES I WON IN ENGLAND.

 THE GOOD CHRISTIAN LADY THAT HAD MILLIONS AND WAS WANTING TO PLACE IT IN MY HANDS CAUSE SHE HAD NO LIVING RELITIVES TO PASS IT DOWN TO AND KNEW I WOULD USE IT FOR THE LORD,THOUGH SHE DID NOT KNOW ME.

 ,MINDS ME OF HOW SOME WAY I HAD DONE SOME ONE A KINDNESS AND THEY WANTED TO GIVE ME LOTS OF MONEY THOUGH THEY DID NOT KNOW MY NAME,

 MINDS ME THAT A PERSON JUST NEEDED ME TO START A BANK ACCOUNT AND PUT LOTS OF MONEY IN IT AND I WOULD GET MILLIONS FOR DOING IT,

 MINDS ME OF ALL THE WONDERFUL PEOPLE OF NIGERA THAT WANTED TO LAVISH MONEY ON ME

 ,THE SCUMIEST OF ALL WAS A SARGENT[ONCE] CAPTAIN]ONCE ETC. ALL WANTED TO SEND ME AMERICAN MONEY THEY HAD FOUND BY THE TRUCK LOAD IN IRAQ,BUT JUST NEEDED SOME ONE IN THE STATES TO SEND IT TOO AS THEY COULD NOT GET IT OUT THEMSELVES!

 DAMN I AM A DUMBASS! I DID NOT RESPOND TO ANY OF THESE OFFERS THAT WOULD HAVE PUT ME ON EASY STREET![]

 COURSE YOUR SIT. IS A LITTLE DIFF. IN YOU ACTUALLY KNEW THE PERSON. BUT.....[8D] LIKE IVORY DOES THE OLE HEAT A PIN UP STICK IT  IN A PLACE ON THE OBJECT WHERE THE MARK IT LEAVES IS NOT SO NOTICIBLE AND IF THE HOT PIN GOES INTO IT NOT JADE? JAMIE PLACEJAMIE


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## reallyrs (Nov 9, 2009)

Im not a TOTAL idiot, the material is stone of some kind. Well, I guess it could be glass, but it is awfully heavy for that.


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## rockbot (Nov 9, 2009)

reallyrs, I wanted to see the back cause my wife said that the chinese women used something like that to hold there hair up. They would stick a ivory chop stick through a notch in the back and it would clasp the hair. I don't see that so its something else. I find it kind of weird why they all look exactly alike. If it was hand made there would be some notable differences.

 Rocky


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## reallyrs (Nov 9, 2009)

They arent all the same. I have 4 different ones. I packed a lot of stuff into storage when I moved to where I live now, and stored it in my home town, 3 hours from here, so I can only show you pictures of the one. But none of them have any kind of clip on the back. I didnt see any duplicates, they were in all shapes and sizes, but most of them were dragons. All different colors of jade. Whatever they are, they are cool, I imagine even without the bracket thing they could be used in the hair with pins.


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## capsoda (Nov 10, 2009)

That doesn't look like the junk that usually comes out of china as ancient treasure. Opaque jade is expensive as hell in big pieces like that. Also stuff comes out of China all the time under the radar and cash means a lot more to the average Chinese laborer than a lot of old crap he can't sell. Just take it to Hong Kong or any other large modern city and put it in a box with a model airplane or toy and send it on it's way.

 It happens.


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## reallyrs (Nov 10, 2009)

I selected this one, one that is circular, with 2 dragon heads coming together at the top and like an ivory color with just a hint of yellowish green to it, not opaque (Milk jade?). Another is about as long as this, but not as tall, the dragon is in a similar but different position and is a very slightly opaque maroon color.The final one is only about 3 inches long by 1.5 inches tall and appears to be a pendant... It is a some kind of bird's head seen in profile that hangs with the beak down. It is probably the most intricate, even though it's overall shape is the simplest. That one is the dusty green, vaguely opaque color I associate with jade. I was told that shade is referred to as Imperial jade. As I said before, the guy I got them from had a lot of different pieces, some of them perhaps 16- 18 inches long... And he wasn't handing over the REALLY good stuff. Regardless of what their significance, or lack thereof, i think they are pretty dern nifty. So do you guys back east find Asian stuff very often, or is that pretty much a west coast thing?


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## capsoda (Nov 10, 2009)

My wife and I have dug a few pieces but I have handled quite a bit of it that someone wanted a hole drilled in it for a pendant bale. When the modernization of industry kicked into gear in china in the mid 1990s that stuff was coming out by the truck load. Damns were being torn down or moved, graves were being bulldozed and man made mountains and hills were being leveled. The Chinese government tried to control the findings but watching your back and doing your job a difficult at the same time. Plus there was plenty of money to be made under the table.

 The large pieces, 12X12 inches are worth thousands of dollars. The fakes start with pieces that are about 6X6 inches. The smaller pieces that are manufactured are usually green jade, soap stone or glass.


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## reptilekeeper (Nov 12, 2009)

My two cents
 To me they do not look as intracate as some of the 1500 year old jade china artifacts I have seen. I agree they look like they were made on a scroll saw. They, or the one pictured dosn't show the kind of patina one would expect to see on a artifact that has been submerged and buried for 1500 years. It was mentioned that China is real good at making fakes and boy is that true. I have been to China and yes customs there are some scary looking guys with machine guns that even check you when you GET OFF THE PLANE!!!  as well as when you are getting on to leave the country...but not everyone!. Smuggling would be risky but there will always be people that will take the chance. I hope you did not get taken, the idea of fakes makes me sick and ruins many good hobbies


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## TJSJHART (Nov 12, 2009)

there is a test for fake jade ..about heatin a pin red hot and touching the piece in a hidden  spot real jade won't burn but fake jade is made of plastic and will melt...


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## Just Dig it (Nov 12, 2009)

they can use glass or jadite..on the jade made currently that test works more for ivory


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