# madmen and their treatment



## rabbittoh

not sure where to put this so *Prized Possesions* will do

 my collection of antique bottles primarily consists of codd hybrids and coloured hamiltons from such countrys as Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and the United Kingdom......and quite a few have an interesting story attached to them

 i will start with the most prized of all of my collection

 ...............the coloured lip codd hybrids, of which there are only 14 different types known


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## div2roty

I don't think I've ever seen anything like that.


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## rabbittoh

got a lot more photos to put up....but have no idea how to do it

 ....anyone able to help


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## woody

It shows how to upload photos here:

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Uploading-a-Picture/m-4115/tm.htm


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## rabbittoh

> ORIGINAL: woody
> 
> It shows how to upload photos here:
> 
> https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/Uploading-a-Picture/m-4115/tm.htm


 
 thanks mate


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## capsoda

I have been trying to get my hands on one of the cobalt hybids for years. They always seem to be a few more dollars out of reach.[&o]


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## pyshodoodle

Hmmm... what are the sizes on those?

 Those are amazing. Can't wait to see more!

 Kate


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## rabbittoh

testing testing


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## rabbittoh

*MADMEN AND THEIR TREATMENT*

 I think I can now post a photo on this forum, which leads me to these 6 that I was recently fortunate enough to acquire from a South African collection

 These 6 codd hybrids come from a dump in Westend Kimberley, which no longer exists. It is now a developed suburb with tarred roads, infrastructure etc. Sadly, this seems to be the lot for our old rubbish dumps. They call it progress.
 these 6 actually have a story attached to them...a story about *"MADMEN & THEIR TREATMENT - a hospital dig"*

 Imagine a hot and dusty town with rough and ready diamond diggers, pubs, ballrooms and the largest manmade excavation in the world. (known as the "Big Hole"), and you would be in Kimberly, South Africa. This city has so many claims to fame: 
 - it's well known figures, Cecil John Rhodes and Barney Baronet, to name but two.
 - the Siege of Kimberly and the battle at Magersfontein, during the Boer War, to name a few events.
 The mine was discovered on the 16th of July 1871 and it was rushed from 18th July. The town, then known as "New Rush" was occupied by people from all over the world, hoping to make their fortunes. It is argued that those who succeeded lit their cigars with bank notes and the women bathed in champagne. Rumor has it that the Kimberly Club, established in 1881, had more millionaires under its roof than any other roof in the world.

 It is with this background that this story begins.

 A colored man (some of them dig for bottles etc. for a living) was walking through the bush on the outskirts of Kimberly when he spotted shards of glass. Well, this was the start of a dig that many of us dream of...and my friend, Brian White was to become a central figure of the dig.

 Brian lives in Bloemfontein, which is 170km from Kimberly, and had heard that a dump had been discovered. Locals were tightlipped about the exact location. With the help of a friend living in Kimberly Brian was able to get in on the act two weeks after digging commenced. Brian spent a number of weekends over the ensuring months digging the site with his friend.....and the digging was not a leisurely walk in the park...in Kimberley, in mid-summer, you can break an egg on the bonnet of a car and watch it cook. You can do the same thing on the tarred roads with similar effects. It gets that hot.

 When Brian could not dig he arranged to purchase all of the finds from his friend and from the colored diggers who frequented the site and collected on his behalf.
 Well concealed from the road by bushes and trees this was by no means a dump of large proportion. You had to dig down to below two meters by using a pick as the ground was hard. At around this depth you would find a band of ash 150mm wide. You then followed this band, hoping that it would widen up. In many cases it would peter out to nothing. You then started a new hole all over again, with great expectations. It seemed as if trenches had been dug, refuse dumped, then covered and a new trench dug whenever refuse needed to be disposed of. When finding pot lids (there were plenty of these) they were either intact with their bases, or the bases were in close proximity to the lids. Brian's initial opinion was that this was not a dump used for general town use but rather the private dump of a hotel or brothel....in fact foundations of a structure could be seen fairly close to the dump site.

 Other than the pot lids there were many medicinal and poison bottles that came from the site.....including several of the fabled gilbertsons wedges, in two different sizes.

 ...For all of its treasures, without a doubt the crowning glory for this little dump was the colored lip hybrids that it gave up....red lips, green lips, blue lips (reliance patents, acme patents, one way pours)....and Brian got most of them all by one means or another

 However, the question remained as to who had made use of this little dump so many years ago. Brian consulted the Kimberly African Library and with the help of several librarians searched through the 19th century maps and antique books of the town. Eventually they found what they believed to be the answer...in a book called "Incadi Yamwai (printed in 1887), under the sub heading "Madmen and Their Treatment". In this book, the author provides a critical account of the incorrect diagnosis of patients, for example being treated for smallpox, who never had it anyway. The author mentioned that the "Lazaretto Hospital" for contagious diseases had been moved from Dutoitspan (a suburb of Kimberly) to Westend, which is in very close proximity to the dump, sometime during the mid 1880's. 

 "Lazaretto" is defined in the dictionary as meaning _"a hospital for people having a contagious or loathsome disease"_

 Unfortunately this dump only lasted six months before being totally dug out. Will another one like it ever be found again? Who knows? What is known is that the Kimberly of today is partially built on dumps making it highly unlikely that those dumps will ever be dug....keeping their many secrets.

 The colored lip hybrids that the little "Lazaretto Hospital dump" gave up were as follows:


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## rabbittoh

*MADMEN AND THEIR TREATMENT cont.*

*RED LIPS*


*1 x 10oz acme patent from Henderson Bros., Kimberly...the only known example and it currently resides in my collection*

 Henderson Bros / Kimberley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 Acme Patent / 4 / Sole Makers / Dan Rylands Ld / Barnsley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 H B
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 10oz Acme Patent

*2 x 6oz acme patent from Henderson Bros., Kimberly......three examples have been accounted for with the 3rd being found on Kimberly's "Kamfersdam" dump (the largest and most well known dump in Kimberly). This 3rd example unfortunatly recieved a crack in the chamber during transport to a new owner in the UK in 2006 and was subsequently destroyed with a hammer when returned to it's south african owner...leaving only the two that had been found on the little "Lazaretto Hospital dump". The 2nd remaining example currently resides in a UK collection*

 Henderson Bros / Kimberley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 Acme Patent / 4 / Sole Makers / Dan Rylands Ld / Barnsley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 H B
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 6oz Acme Patent


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## rabbittoh

*MADMEN AND THEIR TREATMENT cont.*

*GREEN LIPS*

*2 x 10oz reliance patents from Delaney de Beers, Kimberly (one complete and one with the top and bottom laying side by side),...the complete example currently resides in my collection while the repaired example resides in a UK colelction*

 Delaney de Beers / Kimberley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 Reliance Patent / 4 / Sole Makers / Dan Rylands Ld / Barnsley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€” 
 10oz Reliance Patent

*1 x 6oz reliance patents from Delaney de Beers, Kimberly ......three examples have been accounted for with one the other two being found on Kimberly's "Kamfersdam" dump (the largest and most well known dump in Kimberly) & the 3rd example being found in the mid 1990's by my friend Brian on a shelf in a barbers shop in Kimberly. Two of the three examples curently reside in my collection*

 Delaney de Beers / Kimberley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 Reliance Patent / 4 / Sole Makers / Dan Rylands Ld / Barnsley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€” 
 6oz Reliance Patent


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## rabbittoh

*MADMEN AND THEIR TREATMENT cont.*

*BLUE LIPS*

*2 x 10oz reliance patents from a e bradley, kimberly...one in my collection and the other in a UK collection. There is also a 3rd example in a UK collection, however, this one sadly has no story other than that it was recently auctioned in the UK.
*
 A. E. Bradley / Kimberley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 Reliance Patent / 4 / Sole Makers / Dan Rylands Ld / Barnsley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€” 
 10oz Reliance Patent

*2 x 6oz reliance patents from a e bradley, kimberly...these are two of only three known examples .....wth two in my collection and 1 in a UK collection. My 2nd example was purchased from a different collector to Brian and it was found on Kimberly's "Kamfersdam" dump* 

 A. E. Bradley / Kimberley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 Reliance Patent / 4 / Sole Makers / Dan Rylands Ld / Barnsley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€” 
 6oz Reliance Patent


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## rabbittoh

*MADMEN AND THEIR TREATMENT cont.*

 The little "Lazaretto Hospital dump" also gave up 1 x 6oz one way pour blue lip from a e bradley, kimberly. Unfortunately this bottle had already been moved onto a UK collection long before i met Brian...it had been the reliance and acme patents that intrugued him the most

 .....and through the good luck of a chance internet meeting i have developed a fine friendship with Brian that has resulted in him allowing me to purchase his treasured and exceptionally rare matching set of 6 x 10oz and 6oz coloured lip hybrids......all that was required of me was to gather a bit of money together to pay for the bottles and fly to Bloemfontien in the center of South Africa and pick them up....he simply would not entertain the idea of putting them in the post....so, at 1900hrs on Tuesday 30th Setember i boarded a plane in Jakarta Indonesia and made my way to Bloemfontein, South Africa,...arriving at 1300 hrs. Wednesday 1st October. I enjoyed quite a few beers and a bbq with Brian and his wonderful family on Wednesday night before boarding a plane (with my new treasures) on Thursday 2nd October and winging my way back to Jakarta...arriving at 0830 on Friday 3rd October...a long and tiring journey in a very short space of time but absolutly worth it.........these bottles then hopped on a plane with me on Saturday 4th October and made their way to our new home in Colombia, South America, arriving at 1830 on Sunday 5th October


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## rabbittoh

*THE HYBRID AND THE TOOTH ACHE*

 S.A.' s most famous Coloured Lip Codd is the Eugene S. Whyte of Cradock. ...and that was before this little fellow was found.........._and he has has an interesting story attached to him_

 ....a story about a tooth ache and a fire sale price

 ..however, lets start at the beginning.

 For many years S.A.'s most famous Coloured Colour Lip Codd was the 7oz Eugene S. Whyte of Cradock. Unique in that there were no known dug examples, all specimens, in mint condition emanting from their warehouse in Cradock. Although the bottle is embossed Reliance Patent, it is in fact an Acme Patent"

 These cellar-found examples remained the only known examples of bottles from this company until my friend Brian White dug a 10oz version, which to this day remains the only known example...it remains in South Africa & continues to sit proudly on the shelves in Brians collection .....a collection considered to be the finest assembly of coloured/coloured lip minerals outside of the UK

 .....and then, the find of finds... a capetown, south africa, collector, Dale Lewis, dug a little 6oz hybrid from Eugene S Whyte.........this little bottle became the the pride of Dale's collection and to all effects, collection locked....there had never ever been even the slightest eveidence that such a bottle existed..it was and remains to this day the only known example..a gem of the bottle world

 It remained "collection locked" with Dale until a day came that he was in need of urgent and expensive dental treatment and was forced to sell off much of his collection, including the little hybrid. An english collector was fortunate enough to be present in Capetown at this very time and purchased the little hybrid for the princly sum of us$800.00

 The little bottle remained in the english collection until earlier this year i stumbled across it via a very good friend on one of the bottle forums and was able to negotiate a deal that sent it on it's way to my collection....

 ....in all honesty it was the purchase of this little bottle that got me to thinking that it just may be possible to gather an example of all of the 14 known coloured hybrids

 Eugene S. Whyte / Manufacturer / Cradock 
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”.
 6oz Standard Hybrid


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## rabbittoh

*TRESPASSING, CIRCUMCISION, CASTRATION AND THE GREEN LIPPED HYBRID*

There are only 5 known green lip hybrids...and a total count of known examples of 8 - all are of South African origen - 
 I have been fortunate enough to secure three of the five, with a 4th as a double, simply because of the amazing generosity of 3 of my collector friends

......the reliance patents are discussed earlier in this thread - *MADMEN AND THEIR TREATMENT*
 ...................however, the wonderful little green lip "one way" pour _(bottle on the far right in this photo)_ is another story. It was dug in Johannesburg by my friend Nic Wellman and sold onto me in December 2007. I was more than suprised that Nic decided to let this bottle go as it had achieved legendary status in South Africa......a one only known example from Delaney & Youngleson, Johannesburg...but what i do know is that i will be forever grateful to Nic for allowing me the honour of placing this bottle in my collection.


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## rabbittoh

*TRESPASSING, CIRCUMCISION, CASTRATION AND THE GREEN LIPPED HYBRID cont......*

 Nic has also kindly given me the story behind the discovery of this bottle.

*"The greenlip Delaney & Youngelson was dug in a dump which was probably the original Johannesburg dump, no more than maybe a mile from what is now downtown Johannesburg. It is unlikely that that dump will ever be accessible again as it is now covered with buildings. There was even a natural fountain bubbling up and the dump came to light when the engineers had a trench dug in and around the fountain to plug it. We were only able to dig there twice and then we were promised we would be charged with trespassing, circumcision and castration if we showed our faces there again. The bottles found there were all very old, e.g. a Goodliffe stoneware ginger beer was found there, only the third Goodliffe ever found. The other two were found in Pretoria's "Mortuary" dump which was closed in 1900.

 The first time I laid my hands on the greenlip I had to change underpants. 

 I have 5 bluelip and 3 brownlip Codds, at least two of which are also one-offs, as well as an emerald green Codd with the Nuttall's lip patent and one of only 3 amber dumpies ever to come to light in South African Codds (none of these 10 are hybrids) but none of them have the "specialness" of my greenlip hybrid. Even though it is now Grahame Smith's bottle, it will always be "my" bottle.

 The first gold in Johannesburg was discovered in 1886. In an 1892 Johannesburg directory is an entry for "Goungetson & Delancey", so this bottle originated from one of the very early mineral water factories in Johannesburg. I have another, aqua, Delaney & Youngelson hybrid with quite a lot of inscription on it and a lovely wolf / fox / dog (canine) with a bushy tail as the logo"
*
 Nic is known as 'coddman" in South African circles and has arguably the finest collection of codds in that country so parting with this bottle could not have been easy. It is this reason that when recently, after the 'global financial crisis" enforced a few hard times on me and i was forced to sell off some of my collection i could not bring myself to part with the coloured lip hybrids.....Nic had made me the custodian of this bottle so it could be part of a set, .....the full set of coloured lip hybrids....even though it tore his heart out to let it go.

 Note: - in the past year or so a 10oz example of this bottle came to light, also found in Johannesburg. It even made an appearance at one of the english shows - some who viewed it thought that it had a "yellow lip, but in reality it was just a very light shade of green. I am led to believe that a few generours offers were made but the owner would not part with it. The bottle was professionally cleaned in the UK and then dissappeared back to South Africa. I have no doubt that this will be the most difficult of the 4 remaining example required to fulfill my "quest for the lot" as it is the only one that i do not know the actual location of, or even who the owner is.


 Delaney & Youngelson / Johannessburg 
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 Patent Safe Groove / 4 / Sole Makers / Dan Rylands Ld / Barnsley
 â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”â€”
 6oz Standard Hybrid


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## rabbittoh

*THE KIWI HYBRID AND THE SECRET STORY*

 there is only one pictorial coloured lip hybrid...and it is from New Zealand.....and it is New Zealands only colored lip hybrid

 they are exceptionally rare with 4 declared to be known........however there is a whisper from a very reliable kiwi source that there may well be as many as 8

 the bottle is a 10oz reliance patent from A Moffett, Invacargill

 my example has a sensational and exciting story attached to it that i will post some time in the future, but not right now, not right now............


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## rabbittoh

*THE AUSSIE BLUE LIPPED HYBRID WITH NO STORY TO TELL*

 the aussie blue lip hybrid is the most common of all of the blue lip hybrids............15 are known......and as such i have not been able to find the "story" behind my example

 it may be common but to date not a single one has gone to auction...they remain one of the most sought after of all aussie bottles with private deals being concluded long before the opportunity can be made public

 Frank Craig, York, Western Australia....10oz one way pour


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## rabbittoh

*THE ALLIES*

 Colored lip codd hybrids were distributed in only three countries (12 in South Africa, 1 in New Zealand and 1 in Australia)

 .......and too my knowledge only myself has been fortunate enough to put an example from each country together in the one collection (i would gladly be proven wrong)

 from left to right..the aussie, the south african and the kiwi


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## woody

Is that some sort of cloth in the neck of the hybrids???


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## capsoda

You have some beautiful bottles there Grahame. Great stories too.


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## rabbittoh

*THE BLUE MARBLE HYBRIDS*

 There are only three codd hybrids with blue marbles...all from South Africa

 ...two from J. T Muir in Pretoria and one from Henderson Bros, in Kimberly _(the same company that did the red lip codd hybrids shown earlier in this thread)_


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## rabbittoh

*THE BLUE MARBLE HYBRIDS cont.*

 J.T Muir

 both sizes are extremely rare - only 2 known examples of the 10z and 3, maybe 4 of the 6oz

 the 10oz is also blessed with a round bottom making it an extreme rarity as only three companys utilized this form.


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## rabbittoh

*THE BLUE MARBLE HYBRIDS cont.*

 Henderson Bros.

 10oz Dobsons patent

 one of only two known examples, with the 2nd residing in a very well known UK collection


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## rabbittoh

> ORIGINAL: woody
> 
> Is that some sort of cloth in the neck of the hybrids???


 
 Woody, that is just tissue paper that i put in there for their journey from South Africa to Colombia


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## madman

wow that is some crazy sh** thank you so much for sharing your knowledge, im blown away! stuff you just dont think about wow!  --m


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## Dabeel

Grahame,

 Great stories and collection of distinctly un-american bottles....can you explain what the coloration of the lip indicates? and by looking at the photos it's hard to tell how they are colored...is it internal only?

 Let us know,
 Thanks,
 Doug


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## ktbi

That's impressive...thank you for sharing.....Ron

 ((great story. excellent research))


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## beendiggin

That was one of the most unusual and interesting articles I have read in a long time!  Excellent job! Thanks so much for posting it.  You should be proud of that collection.


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## rabbittoh

*THE SHILLING COMPANY AMBER MARBLE CODD HYBRIDS*

 The Shilling Factory, Kimberly, South Africa was indeed a prolific producer of coloured marble hybrids...with 8 different types known...................7 with amber marbles and one with a very dark brown (almost black) marble. 
 The founder of this company, Joseph Shilling, originally set up business in Capetown but quickly ended up in dispute with other companies and the law over the wrongful use of each others bottles. Joseph moved his business to Kimberly and as a measure to prevent the nastiness that had soured his Capetown venture decided to adopt colour as a means of identifying his bottles.
 this first photo is not mine but is the best one that i have showing a group of Shilling hybrids. I have 6 of these 7 and a 7th (dark brownmarble) that is not in this photo




 The rarest of the Shilling coloured marble hybrids is this one (dark brown marble and horizontal embossing). This, to my knowledge, is the only known example. It came from the colelction of my good friend Rod Comer of Pretoria, South Africa. I have asked for the story of its discovery and when i have it i will post it here




 The most common of the Shilling coloured marble hybrids is this one (amber marble and vertical embossing). I have had 6 of these pass through my collection so there must many of them distributed through colelections throughout the world....this one in the photograph is a little more unique because of the large amber swirl on the side. There is a 6oz version of this on (see first photo) that is extremely rare and is the one that i do not yet have in my collection




 Shilling even had pictorial coloure marble hybrids...a 6oz and a 10oz depicting a deers head. These are quite common as well..however, that said, it is a long time since i have seen one come up for sale.




 There are also 2 x round bottom amber marble hybrids. The 6oz version being the more common. I know of only two of the 10oz version












 There is an odd shaped 6oz fellow...rather squat with a pointy bum....i know of only 2 examples with mine being heavilly polished resulting in very poorly defined embossing








 and finally.............shilling also produced coloured codds...of which i have been fortunate enough to secure 3...all extremely rare 








 this one is also blessed with an amber marble


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## rabbittoh

*GREEN MARBLE CODD HYBRIDS*

 p ferrero, pochtenstien, south africa, 10oz one-way pour










 de hoop, pretoria, south africa, 10oz one-way pour









 de hoop, pretoria, south africa, 6oz one-way pour


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## coreya

WOW


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## DJFALLS

Fascinating.


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## potstone

Grahame, You have a wonderful and fascinating collection.
 For the past year I have been devoting some of my time studying
 bottles from areas other than the states. Your colored lip codd hybrids are great examples. Non American codds and torpedo's show up frequently in the states and seem to go unnoticed.
 I have decided to add to my collection similar examples when available and priced within reason. I think the form and variations
 make for a great display. Thanks for the photos and information.
 Greg


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## sandchip

Mercy!


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## Poison_Us

I knew I saw someone who collected the hybrids..  Incredible collection there.
 Ya,  posted a link to the S. Africa hybrid on ebay a few days ago.  Probably already has that issue.  a bit stained but in sound condition that I can remember.


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