# Found this bottle and not sure about it Any Ideas?



## lostkause17 (May 6, 2012)

Hey guys I found this after a high water flood in the river in pa.  Not sure when or where its from but I talk to a guy in tennesse about it and he said its from civil war era but said it could be a fake.  Anyone know anything about this and signs to tell if its a repro or the original?


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## lostkause17 (May 6, 2012)

this is the other side


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## cowseatmaize (May 6, 2012)

Welcome! 
 It looks original to me but better pictures after cleanup and a little more description would help.
 Does it have any lettering in the oval? It looks like a Pittsburgh area flask from around 1870, a bit post war.


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## #1twin (May 6, 2012)

It doesn't look fake at all to me, but then again I have never been lucky enough to find one here. Some of the flask experts could better answer yours questions.  Great find congrats. 



 Marvin


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## sandchip (May 6, 2012)

Nothing fake about that baby.


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## CanYaDigIt (May 6, 2012)

Definitely not a fake, but really odd.  It seems to be most similar to a GXII-1, but there are a lot of things off on both sides.  That particular frame on the eagle side is seen only on the GXII-1, GXII-2, and GXII-23, but it is not either one of those flasks.  The shield and ribbon on the eagle side are not right, and the bars in the shield on the clasped hands side aren't right.  Very nice find.  Possibly an unlisted variant as I cant find anything the same listed by McKearin.  I'm far from knowledgeable on these historicals and really can only go from the book.  Hopefully an expert on the subject will interject shortly.


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## surfaceone (May 6, 2012)

Hey Josh,

 Welcome to the A-BN, and thanks for bringing this Union Clasped Hands / Eagle flask. It's a nice find, and just needs a little tender loving Chuckles Method to be looking good.

 "More pictures, plese." said he in an encouraging manner. Details will become more apparent...




From.


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## lostkause17 (May 6, 2012)

Yea I have been meaning to clean it out.   The only thing I can find on the sides of the bottle is that it says A & Co  other then that and the "union" there are no other marks on it.  The guy I am working with had a buddy of his look at it and he was sayin that it wasnt worth nething and that it was a repro from the bicent. of 1976.  Then he proceeded to offer me $40 for it so it confused me because if it was worth anything then why would he try to buy it ya know.  The otherthing is that I have seen a couple of bottles that are similar to this one but they all have very straight necks and look almost perfect.  Mine on the other hand has a curve to the neck.  The lip at the top is by no means straight and there are various air bubbles in the glass.  There are what looks like cast lines running up either side but they stop below the neck and there is no cast line on the actual neck.  I left it at work so when I go back to work on tuesday I will get it and clean it up and send some pictures up on here.  Like I said I found it after a record breaking highwater a little while back in Pa.  Who knows how long it could have been burried under the ground.


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## RICKJJ59W (May 6, 2012)

That's amazing it is in that good of shape  for rollin on a river.[]  Cool find. We have found nothing but broken ones in privys'.


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## epackage (May 6, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  lostkause17
> 
> The guy I am working with had a buddy of his look at it and he was sayin that it wasnt worth nething and that it was a repro from the bicent. of 1976.  Then he proceeded to offer me $40 for it so it confused me because if it was worth anything then why would he try to buy it ya know.


 This guy would be told to keep his distance or he would have my boot deep in his ass...


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## AntiqueMeds (May 6, 2012)

> a repro from the bicent. of 1976. Then he proceeded to offer me $40


 
 funny.  could be close to the centenial though.  Whats the bottom look like? That can help date it.
 The later ones are post molds, the earlier are key molds or straight hinge molds.
 Some of the common GXIIs arent worth a lot. seeing it has a blob top seems a bit uncommon to me.


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## Brains (May 6, 2012)

yea... that guy's trying to rip you off, that's a great looking flask.  definitely not fake, great find


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## RICKJJ59W (May 6, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Brains
> 
> yea... that guy's trying to rip you off, that's a great looking flask.  definitely not fake, great find


 

 I hate bums like that!!  i swear I would love to bust a  wheaton over the guys head!


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## JOETHECROW (May 6, 2012)

Cool find,...what ever GX number it turns out to be....May be a rare variant... Be real creful cleaning it up....


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## CanYaDigIt (May 6, 2012)

I just posted a link down in the "Suggest A Website" part of the forum.  It has all of the different GXII flasks so you can compare this one to all the rest.  I'd have to agree that the guy offering you the $40 seems a bit douchbagish.  $40 is pretty low even for the most common GXII, and like Matt said, that blob top makes is much less common right off the get go.  I hope it cleans up nice for you.  Please post some pics when she's all washed up.


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## surfaceone (May 6, 2012)

> The only thing I can find on the sides of the bottle is that it says A & Co other then that and the "union" there are no other marks on it. The guy I am working with had a buddy of his look at it and he was sayin that it wasnt worth nething and that it was a repro from the bicent. of 1976.


 
 Hey Josh,

 I think you've got a good one. The lip finish is throwing me off. Is it a very blue aqua?

 Please do wash it up, and show us more:

 "A & CO............Agnew & Company, Pittsburgh, PA (c.1854-1894+). There was a series of glass companies in the Pittsburgh area in which the Agnew family was involved, beginning as early as 1842 with Chambers & Agnew. Later, approximately 1854, the firm became John Agnew & Company (1854-1870); then, John Agnew & Son (1871-1876) and later simply Agnew & Company (1876-1892+). The most recent incarnation seems to have been "The Agnew Company", which was in operation in 1894 (a bottle catalog from this company exists, dated 1894) which may have continued on for some time afterwards. Jars that are marked "JOHN AGNEW & SON / PITTSBURG PA" presumably date from about 1871 to 1876, and those marked "AGNEW & CO / PITTSBURG PA" would date from c. 1876 into the early 1890s. See "A" entry." From.




From.









From.


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## RED Matthews (May 6, 2012)

Hello surfaceone;  I appreciated the picture of the ship in a bottle.  I have three or four bottles with ships in also one with a prisoners suckerstick sculpture of the cross in a bottle.  These art forms are interesting and not seen often enough.  I also have two early books on making ships in a bottle - I haven't tried to create one yet.  Thanks for posting the picture. RED Matthews


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## surfaceone (May 7, 2012)

Glad you liked it Red. I was always fascinated with the bottle art constructions.


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## lostkause17 (May 7, 2012)

cleaned the bottle out to just took a little bit of rinsing once I got the cork out.  You guys will never guess what was in it.  GUNPOWDER!  It lit up like a christmas tree to when the one guy dropped a cigarette on it.  But anyway heres the pictures.  Please feel free to ask me any questions.  Sorry the files say to large but Ill link the photobucket if someone can change them over that would be great thanks


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## surfaceone (May 7, 2012)




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## Ben (May 7, 2012)

a beautiful flask... found via a super flooded river... full of gun powder...    What a great story this one is turning out to be![]


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## lostkause17 (May 7, 2012)

Its got me so excited to find out exactly the whats about it.  I only picked it up when I was cleaning up debris because I thought it was neat looking and come to find out boom!!!!!  This is where im at.


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## epackage (May 7, 2012)

Great to see it clean and very happy you didn't listen to that Douche and take him up on his offer...[]


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## hemihampton (May 7, 2012)

Maybe go back & look for more? LEON.


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## Ben (May 7, 2012)

I am glad you did not take him up on his offer also.... sooooo.... I will give you $50 for it []


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## Wheelah23 (May 7, 2012)

Awesome flask! I'd be ecstatic if I found that. It's perfectly whittled, has awesome embossing, and is apparently rare... Definitely go back there!


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## Oldmill (May 7, 2012)

That is one sweet bottle.  I have a hutch bottle which picture's two hands shaking, this is the now the second bottle that I've seen now with that. congrats on your new find


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## surfaceone (May 7, 2012)

Hey Josh,

 I'm not seeing the "A & Co." embossing. Is it in the oval placard on the eagle side?


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## Steve/sewell (May 7, 2012)

Surf the embossing A & Co is in the pennant passing through the shield. Look at the first picture in the post you can make the letters out there. He cleaned the bottle so good you cant see them now.[8D] Nice flask and very original. Probably an 1865 to 1875 made flask like the rest of the Clasped Hands charted flasks. We need to know the size I am assuming it is pint sized judging from the finger in the bottle picture. If the flask is pint sized then it is either a GXII-21 or GXII-22. The flask is attributed to the Adams & Co. Pittsburgh Pennsylvania by Stephen Van Rensselaer.As others have already stated in this post the top is different then most if not all of the other Clasped Hands/Shield Flasks in the GXII group which usually sport the single ring top making the flask very desirable. Although common by comparison to other historical flasks these clasped hands/ Shield flasks are still very collectable as really they were a celebration of the saving of the Union after the Civil war. I see these flasks really coming into their own in the next 20 years as the older 1820 to 1850 historical flasks become more scarce and out of the price range of a lot of collectors.


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## CanYaDigIt (May 7, 2012)

Hey there Steve, I'm glad you chimed in on this.  Check out the number and placement of the vertical and horizontal lines in the shield on the UNION side.  They don't match up with a 21 or 22.  The "placard" on the eagle side is unlike a 21 or 22 also.  I'd think it is more like the GXII-1, possibly a GXII-1a if you will.


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## surfaceone (May 8, 2012)

Thanks, Steve,

 So in the incestuous Pittsburgh glasshouse world, did these moulds have a wider distribution at some point?


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## Steve/sewell (May 8, 2012)

I saw that also Aaron,The charted descriptions are picture less in Mckearins. But Like in football   UPON Further Review[8|] I believe the flask is the GXII-22 based on Mckearins charts describing the Clasped Hand side of the flask.  As follows:  Similar to the GXII-1,smaller scale;clasped hands frame about 1 1/16th x 3 9/16th, 9 WIDE graduated bars above the oval frame and 7 below. Twenty leaves on the left laurel ;18 on the right. Medium sized stars, Here comes the piece of the puzzle that describes this side of the flask. The letter I in the word UNION is in line with with the top point of the shield.


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## Steve/sewell (May 8, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> Thanks, Steve,
> 
> So in the incestuous Pittsburgh glasshouse world, did these moulds have a wider distribution at some point?


 yes and they were also bipedal I heard!![]


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## CreekWalker (May 8, 2012)

Great find! I found a rare hutch last year after our 500 year flood of May first. You made a good choice to hold on to the flask, until you had a chance to research it. Those Tennessee guys can be pretty shady,[] although we have several honorable bottle dealers around here! Just watch out for the horse and pocketknife traders.[]  I like the story behind this flask! A black powder flask made of glass, were you lit up when you pulled out that cork!?


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## lostkause17 (May 8, 2012)

yea thanks alot everyone of the info.


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## CreekWalker (May 8, 2012)

Thanks, it's amazing how technical these posts can become! I see there are many varieties of this type of flask, prices start at $50 and can go up quickly! This flask realized $700 back on April 29th. Do your homework, and you'll be rewarded for that once in a lifetime find! Personally if I had found it in Memphis on the ole' Mississippi river,well, then it would look great on my bookshelf!


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## JOETHECROW (May 9, 2012)

> I only picked it up when I was cleaning up debris because I thought it was neat looking and come to find out boom!!!!!


 

 BOOM Baby! []   (Sorry,...couldn't resist!) Again,...Great flask and awesome find.


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## JUNKMAN1 (May 9, 2012)

Lucky dog.


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## appliedlips (May 10, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  CreekWalker
> 
> Thanks, it's amazing how technical these posts can become! I see there are many varieties of this type of flask, prices start at $50 and can go up quickly! This flask realized $700 back on April 29th. Do your homework, and you'll be rewarded for that once in a lifetime find! Personally if I had found it in Memphis on the ole' Mississippi river,well, then it would look great on my bookshelf!


 

     Color is what brought the money in the auctioned flask. I agree it is a killer find but even a one of a kind variant of this flask will not bring alot of money unless something is drastically different than similar flasks. Great find and I agree, go find some more.


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## lostkause17 (May 12, 2012)

yea I think when I get back im going to look for some more.  Maybe I can get lucky more then once


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## cowseatmaize (May 12, 2012)

> The guy I am working with had a buddy of his look at it and he was sayin that it wasnt worth nething and that it was a repro from the bicent. of 1976. Then he proceeded to offer me $40 for it


If the guys bud was a dealer/collector that may have been a fair offer in uncleaned and and not thoroughly examined for condition. May have been a bit of a gamble really. Saying it was bicentennial is just dumb unless he meant centennial.
 Nice looking flask all cleaned up so I'm glad you kept it.


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