# Indian artifacts ID help



## BDD (Dec 21, 2008)

Hi folks, I'm pretty new to this forum, I've just been lurking for a while, seems like a good bunch of people here and very knowledgeable. I have a question on some artifacts I found, here in northeast PA. I think they are of  American Indian origin, although I have very little experience with that sort of thing. I thought maybe one of the artifact collectors on the site may know what they are, or if they're anything at all. The one with the hole I found in the Lackawanna river while scrounging for bottle dumps, the other I found while digging a dump near the Delaware river near Easton. Any help would e appreciated! Jay


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## BDD (Dec 21, 2008)

flip side of item #1--


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## BDD (Dec 21, 2008)

item #2--


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## BDD (Dec 21, 2008)

other side--


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## BDD (Dec 21, 2008)

last pic, the side of item #2--


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## RICKJJ59W (Dec 21, 2008)

I am not really up on the Indian artifacts but my buddy is.He found something like the last piece on your post.He said it was a drill tool for making holes in leather.I am not sure it is the same thing but it sure looks like it. Also someone posted a pic of something that looked similar to the one with the hole in it,I think they said it was a pendant,look back over the post you might find it Rick


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## dollarbill (Dec 21, 2008)

Id say Ricks right about the second piece you posted looks like a drill point but could all so be a plumb bob .The first could be part of a banner stone that was used to mark territory or a pendent or maybe even an arrow shaft straightener.Iam just learning myself and it hard to tell the deferents in some of the pieces .Heres a few piece Ive come across some my be nothing other than nature made.
              bill


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## RED Matthews (Dec 22, 2008)

Well BDD  I would say your stone was a weight for either fishing or for holding a cover hide over something.  I have two that I found in the Finger Lakes area of New York. It was years ago when I collected indian artifacts with my Grandfather.
 RED Matthews


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## dollarbill (Dec 22, 2008)

Yea what Red said .I was just kinda making some guesses


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## BDD (Dec 22, 2008)

Thanks for the responses, guys! Bill the one piece looks almost just like some of those you have, yes the first thing I thought when I found the one with the hole driled through it was that it might be a fishnet weight or sinker, as it was laying in the riverbed. I looked around on the internet and the only things with holes were described as 'pendants'. This doesn't really seem like a pendant, hide holder sounds like a good possibility too Red. I didn't think of that. As far as the other long flat thing, it has a really blunt point on the one end and the other end was flattened out almost in a chisel shape which has broken off, it's really not sharp enough to have been a drill, maybe it was a work in progress that broke and was thrown away before it was finished. If anyone else has any ideas,or info on these things, chime in! Jay


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## dollarbill (Dec 25, 2008)

Heres an arrow shaft straightener made from an elk horn


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## dollarbill (Dec 25, 2008)

A few pendents and a plumb bob


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## ajohn (Dec 25, 2008)

Got a story about finding Native evidence.
   I used to crawl around all the local mountains around here.The only time I ever really felt alive.One time I was crawling through some brush and came upon some huge stones that just had a feel to them.So I had the thought to stop and snacked on one of them.There was a lot of pine needles so I had to brush them off. What I found were a bunch of holes about 8"-10" in dia,and about 4"-6"deep, and about 24" apart from each other.In a couple of the holes were pestles!Then I brushed the other stones off and discovered that if the stones had a flat spot there was a pestle in one of these depressions.I can't remember how many there were,a bunch.I left everything the way I found it,left some tobacco in one of the holes and blessed the area by smudging.
   A couple years later I thought I'd go back to the spot (I needed a cleaning).What I found made me sad.There was a dirt bike trail that went right next to the site.I found a bunch of broken beer bottles and beer and soda cans with bullet holes in them.
    The place had been pillaged. All I could think of to do was to clean up as much trash as I could and smudge,asking for forgiveness. I left the place feeling I should have done something different the first time I visited the encampment.Like tell a museum,or something.But I didn't,so in a way I felt responsible.
    But the story doesn't end here.I wouldn't tell a sad story on Christmas!!!
 A couple of weeks later I was at a yard sale and the homeowner asked if I was Native American.(I get asked that a lot)Then she told me a story of how her son and his buddies found a bunch of "Native stuff"when they were riding their dirt bikes in the mountains.She said she was afraid to sell them until she saw me.I bought the two pieces she had and left with a new thought.I have a knack for finding things,then I sometimes do a little research and usually end up passing it on.I believe this is one of my life jobs.The original People of this land kept history by way of mouth.They call it the spoken history.I believe those of us who are searchers have a job of preserving the  past so we don't forget who we are and where we came from.Maybe so that we stop making the same mistakes with the next generation.Maybe?
  Well, that's my Christmas story,and thanks for putting up with me.
                                                               Anthony-John


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## woody (Dec 25, 2008)

In the one picture that you posted of yourself with your back to the camera you look native american, Ajohn.

 Are you native american???


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## dollarbill (Dec 25, 2008)

Hey ajohn 
   Yes it is  sad that sites have been plundered as they have and theres no worse place than were I live as this whole valley is truly a burial ground .The few piece I have came as pick ups off the ground . But I did want to say that the Native Americans of this country did have a written word also .It was called wampum .The Cherokee even had a written word as we do .If you were to study it you would find that  our founding For father used a lot of the 5 northen nations goverment   to help write out our own  Constitution . 
      bill


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## ajohn (Dec 25, 2008)

I guess I should have said" a lot of history was spoken and passed along in stories".
 As for the discovery of native sites,I believe that the present inhabitents of any land should have a right to keep or pass along any artifacts found.I hope I didn't offend anyone with my story.I guess  I missed the mark in trying to describe the Idea that some of us are ment to find things.Or maybe things find us.Its the circle thing.As for Our fore Fathers.I am familure with many of the great leaders both before and after this land became united and independent.I believe that great wisdom has a way of prevailing no matter where it comes from.One of the great wisdoms about the unity of two people was to unite their blood.Many fought that idea.Sadly from both people.Am I Native American?I believe that that is not important.But for some reason this time I will answer.Yes, I am Native,But more Important I am a Christian man.Both parts live within me in peace.And I live my life which reflects that both parts are alive.
    Hope I answered your questions,and may you and yours be blessed this day.


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## woody (Dec 25, 2008)

Yes, you have answered my question.
 Have a great holiday season and remember us here in the frozen northeast.
 Thanks........Woody


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## RedGinger (Dec 26, 2008)

Interesting story AJohn.  I was wondering too Woody after what he said.  Since you are Native American and Christian, you might be interested in the story of St. Aspiniquid.  His grave is on MT. Agamenticus in Southern Maine.  It is a touching memorial they have.  The only thing I don't believe in is that we came to their land and tried to convert them to our religion.  
 Also, My husband and another friend (Penn Digger) visited Chief Cornplanter's grave near the Kinzua Dam in PA a few months ago.  Joe just happened to have a small bottle our friend gave him in his pocket, so we decided to leave it there along with a few other items people had left.


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## RedGinger (Dec 26, 2008)

http://www.agamenticus.org/history4.html


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## RedGinger (Dec 27, 2008)

I think so too!  Way cool.


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## JGUIS (Dec 31, 2008)

I too am a "finder", but explaining "how" to most people, falls on deaf ears.  Although documented early, I refound a city that was forgotten about by everyone.  Well, almost everyone.  Carbon dating put samples from a cooking area at 800B.C.  I'll tell ya the whole story sometime if you wanna hear it. For now, here's a passage I think fits the conversation.

 In a moment of solitude, I sought comfort from the gGreat Spirit.  Grandfather, I said, "There are those who say that life is all there is, that it is foolish to believe in something you cannot see.  I do not doubt you, but I am weak and only seek your re-assurance."
  The Great Spirit said "When you hear the forlorn cry of the loon echoing through the mist arising from the surface of a calm lake on a cool morning
 It is I
 When you see the majestic eagle soaring through the air, teasing the clouds with his effortless grace
 It is I
 When you see the sunshine playing and laughing in the ripples of a fast moving stream
 It is I
 At the lowest, darkest times in your life, when your trials were overwhelming and you felt like your friends and family had abandoned you when you needed them most, and the strength with which you prevailed and bounced back stronger than ever came to you when you were about to give up
 It is I
 When you see a bright blue sky turned a glowing red by shimmering golden rays
 It is I
 When you witness the miracle of birth and hear the robust cries of a new life; When you see all of these things, how can you doubt
 It is I


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## whitefeather (Jan 27, 2009)

Hi to you 
 I was looking at some of the pix posted, I would say you found a good arrow strightner,"did I spell that right"? wet the wood insert and let it dry, straight arrow and the other tool was for making holes in items of leather, one end the other end smoothing.  hey ajohn nice pix. dude LOL[] 

 Blessings
 Whitefeather


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## glass man (Jan 28, 2009)

YES BILL THE CHEROKEE HAD NOT ONLY A WRITTEN WORD,BUT ALSO PUT OUT THEIR OWN NEWSPAPER!THIS AT A TIME WHEN A LARGE POPULATION COULD NOT READ!


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## farmgal (Jan 28, 2009)

Awesome story and great pic of yourself and the other items. Got tears in my eyes reading it! Thanks for sharing. farmgal


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