# Barq's Root Beer



## Bass Assassin

I realize Barq's may be a regional root beer but I was just curious if anyone here has any of the older bottles from turn-of-century or even the teens. Until today I didn't know this drink originated in southern MS and New Orleans. I would like to see some of those earlier bottles if anyone has something to share.


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## jblaylock

I see them from time to time. I don't own any but can keep my eyes open for you. 

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## Bass Assassin

Thanks, I was just wondering what those early bottles looked like, you know the labels, etc. I read earlier today that Barq's was first bottled in 1898


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## GLASSHOPPER55

I'd be curious to see one as well...


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## bottle-o-pop

Hi Bass Assassin, that time period is before my collecting window, but it may help you to know that Barq's is probably the most commonly misspelled soda name (as "Barg's"), followed by "Tru-Me", "Nulcy", and "One Tall".


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## ACLbottles

Here's a link to a post on here about one of the first Barq's bottles, which was a Hutchinson. I'm pretty sure Barq's Root Beer originated with this company from Biloxi, Mississippi. I've also seen some straight sided bottles from this bottler.


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## Bass Assassin

Thanks ACL. I think at some point the father and son split up and the son went to New Orleans and began his own bottling operation. One was using a blue label and the other used a red label.


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## sunrunner

I have yet to see a Barq's older then the 1930's version .


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## Bass Assassin

sunrunner said:


> I have yet to see a Barq's older then the 1930's version .


Which is why I started this thread. There's has to be some out there


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## SODAPOPBOB

Bass

This is just the tip of the iceberg, but in order to find the earliest Barq's bottles you need to reference ...

*Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works*

... which included the earlier Hutchinson bottles that transitioned into the later straight sided bottles. The Artesian Bottling Works existed before Edward Barq (Pronounced 'Bark') bought the company. The bottles from the teens were embossed with Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works - E. Barq Prop. 

[ Original Location - Biloxi, Mississippi ]



[ Sample of early 1900s bottles - Notice that one of them is embossed with Coca Cola ]

 

[ 1935 Patent - Standard diamond embossed bottle ]



[ I believe this is their first ACL - But not sure if it dates before or after the 1935 patent bottle ]

(Notice it does not have the diamond embossing)




Regarding early (teens) paper labels - I haven't found one yet but still searching ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

I'm not sure how accurate this information is, but if the 1934 reference about the red and blue labels is correct, then there *might* be a 1934 Barq's ACL bottle, which would make it one of only two known ACLs form 1934 - with the other example being a confirmed 1934 Jumbo Cola. 

"The Barq's company originated in New Orleans in 1890 by two brothers. In 1897 one of the brother's moved to Biloxi & opened a second bottling plant there. Barq's root beer began appearing around 1900. In the 1930's, the FDA made some changes to the definition of "root beer" and the original Barq's recipe had too high of a caffeine content to fall into the category. The Mississippi Barq's bottlers changed their recipe to comply with the new standards, while the Louisiana side just removed the phrase "root beer" from their bottles & kept the old recipe. Eventually, another company bought out the Mississippi Barq's and a long running battle went on between the two companies until Coca-Cola acquired both in 1995."

"A 1934 contract with Barq protege Jesse Robinson led to a bottling plant in New Orleans. The Louisiana bottle was printed in red (versus Biloxi's blue) to distinguish ownership of bottles, as blue labeled bottles were returned to Mississippi & vice-versa. The last family-held Louisiana Barq's bottling plant was sold by the Robinson's heirs to Coca-Cola in 2000."

[  Barq's ACLs - Dates Unknown  ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

If we disregard the red vs. blue acl bottles for the moment - and take into account that the diamond-embossed non-acl bottle was patented in 1935 - is it possible that this non-diamond-embossed acl bottle is from 1934?


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## SODAPOPBOB

If so, then it ties with this 1934 Jumbo Cola as one of the earliest ACL soda bottles known ... 

[ Images courtesy of member Morbious_fod ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

If you really want a super early Barq's soda bottle, then I recommend looking for a ...

Orangine

... bottle from around 1890-1893 which was bottled by the ...

Barq Brothers

[  1943 Edward Barq Obituary  ]

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11449898


Edward Charles Barq was in New Orleans around 1890 and with his brother Gaston opened the Barq’s Brothers Bottling Co. In 1893 he won a gold medal at the Chicago World’s Fair for one of his first soft drinks, Orangine. He moved to Biloxi Miss. in 1897. In 1898 he bottled and sold his first soft drink in Biloxi, it had more “bite” than other root beers due to the higher level of carbonation and a lower sugar content and that is how Barq’s Root Beer started.. He was joined by Mr. Court in 1901 and they marketed this product and it became very successful. They expanded from its plant on Keller Ave in Biloxi to Gulfport in 1902 which ran there until 1910 when it was closed down. It continued to sell through the 1920’s with the first franchise coming in 1934, the drinks popularity was unstoppable. By 1937, there were 62 bottling plants that had been established in 22 states and in 1950 peaked at about 200 franchises. Edward Barq died in the late 1940’s. Coca-Cola purchased the rights to Barq’s in 1995.


[ From 1943 Obituary ]






[  From a 1893 New Orleans Newspaper  ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

Even though most accounts claim that Barq's Root Beer was established in *1898*, this *1900* newspaper article leads me to believe that some aspect of Barq Brothers Bottling was still in operation in 1900, which was two years after the founding of Barq's Root Beer. 

Notice Number 11.

Also notice at the top where it says ...

"... and pop bottles *branded* as follows:"


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## SODAPOPBOB

More about Barq Brothers Bottling ...


http://www.angelfire.com/tn/traderz/barq.html

To avoid French military service, Ed returned to New Orleans around 1890, and with his brother, Gaston, opened Barq’s Brothers Bottling Company in the French Quarter of New Orleans. He continued the business a few years after Gaston’s death.

https://books.google.com/books?id=k...AA#v=onepage&q=Barq Brothers Bottling&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB

In search of ...

1. A "Barq Brothers" bottle or paper label

2. A "Orangine" bottle or paper label


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## SODAPOPBOB

If I haven't done so already, these links should confirm there was indeed a "Barq Brothers Bottling Company" in operation prior to 1898 ...

http://www.innovatorshalloffame.com/barqs.html

http://thebonnercollection.com/barqs-rootbeer/

https://books.google.com/books?id=k...page&q=Barq Brothers Bottling Company&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB

In other words ...

*1890* = Barq Brothers Bottling Company established

*1898* = Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works established


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## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:


> In search of ...
> 
> 1. A "Barq Brothers" bottle or paper label
> 
> 2. A "Orangine" bottle or paper label




I'm adding another Barq Brother's brand to the list that I'm searching for ... 

3. A "Ginger Dew" bottle or paper label


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## SODAPOPBOB

The only thing I've found so far is this "Orangine" bottle cap. But I don't know the exact date nor if it has Barq Brothers on it. In the ribbon it says ...

"The Gold Metal Drink"

... which is a reference to the award it received at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair.


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

The earliest 'Crown Finish' bottle I'm aware of is an 1895 "Murdock & Freeman" from Portland, Maine. The finish and closure were invented by William Painter in 1892. Even though "Orangine" was around in 1890 and won an award in 1893, I suspect the "Orangine" bottle cap I posted is later than 1895. I'm not sure how long "Orangine" was bottled but suspect it might have fallen to the wayside when Barq's Root Beer was introduced in 1898.


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## SODAPOPBOB

This snippet is part of an article about the suicide death of Jules Barq, who was the younger brother of Edward and Gaston Barq. It is from a New Orleans newspaper published in *1896*. Its the latest reference I can find for "Orangine" in connection with the Barq Brothers. Notice where it says ...

"... which was at one time a popular beverage at the bars of this city." 

This leads me to suspect that "Orangine" had lost its popularity by 1896 and might even have been discontinued entirely by that time. ???


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## SODAPOPBOB

However ...

There's a glitch in my giddyup because the "Orangine" bottle cap I posted doesn't look turn-of-the-century to me. I think I'm missing something but not sure what it is yet!


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## SODAPOPBOB

What I was missing is this ...

1. Orangine Bottle
2. Cascade Bottling Works
3. New Orleans, Louisiana
4. Owens-Illinois Glass Company

I can't make out the date number, but because Owens-Illinois was established in 1929-1930 the bottle has to date sometime after that, probably circa 1930s. I do not know if there is a connection between Barq's Bottling and Cascade Bottling, but I do know that both were in operation at the same time in New Orleans. I have seen references for Cascade Bottling that date as early as the 1920s and as late as the 1940s. I intend to research this further and see what I can find. I can't say for certain at this juncture, but the odds are good that the Orangine bottle cap likely came from one of these bottles. 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557






The small embossing under the word Orangine might be something like 'Gold Medal Drink' ???


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## SODAPOPBOB

I found a connection between Barq's Bottling and Cascade Bottling! And that connection is a man named ...

Jesse Robinson

I will be back later with more details but can tell you now that Jesse Robinson was the adopted son of the Barq family who was the manager of the Cascade Bottling Works at one time.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's some additional information about Jesse Robinson and the Cascade Bottling Works ...

Link to 1922 Re-Ly-On Bottler magazine

https://books.google.com/books?id=c...v=onepage&q=Orangine cascade bottling&f=false

From a 1922 New Orleans newspaper



From a 1979 Newspaper - 
Jesse Robinson was not 'adopted' by Edward Barq but was raised by him. I don't know all of the details about their 1934 agreement, but based on the previous information, Jesse Robinson was the owner/manager of Cascade Bottling Works at least as early as 1922. 



Here's another brand from the Cascade Bottling Works -

"Big V Five" (Date unknown but likely 1920s-1930s)

(They also bottled "Orangine" and "Barq's")







*I'm currently trying to fill the gap between 1893 when "Orangine" won a gold medal in Chicago and its appearance with the Cascade Bottling Works in the 1920s-30s. So far its a mystery to me what became of "Orangine" after it was apparently first bottled in 1893.*


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## SODAPOPBOB

Observation ...

Even though the Cascade Bottling Works appears to be a separate entity from Barq's Bottling, I believe there is enough of a connection (via Jesse Robinson) to qualify early Cascade Bottling Works bottles as being collectible along with Barq's bottle collections.


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## SODAPOPBOB

In search of ...

A better example (than the one shown here) of an embossed Barq's bottle from the Cascade Bottling Works, New Orleans, Louisiana ...

Note: Barq's bottles marked with Cascade Botting Works could be somewhat rare. This is the only example I have found so far. I'm especially interested in examples with pictures of the base to get some idea of the dates.


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## SODAPOPBOB

I don't know the date of this ad but guessing its circa 1900 because it shows "Biloxi Bottling Works." As we have seen, prior to about 1898 the company name was "Barq Brothers Bottling" which was established in 1890. 

By the way, if anybody has a "Barq Brothers" bottle or paper label, please share it with us. I have a feeling they are extremely rare!


(Notice the blob-top bottles)


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## SODAPOPBOB

The rest of the story pertaining to the Jesse Robinson family / Edward Barq family / Bottling ...

2010 Article ...

http://www.law360.com/articles/193782/barq-s-heirs-want-stake-in-root-beer-co-from-coke


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

Here's the copy/pasted article in case the link doesn't work ...



Barq's Heirs Want Stake In Root Beer Co. from Coke


By Evan Weinberger 

Law360, New York (September 15, 2010, 7:32 PM ET) -- The Coca-Cola Co. is facing a lawsuit from heirs of the "illegitimate" son of the founder of Barq's Inc., who claim they still own a one-third interest in the root beer maker and want either the return of the interest or compensation.

The estate of Arthur Robinson — son of Jasper Louis, or Jesse, Robinson — is entitled to a one-third interest in Barq's, according to a complaint filed Tuesday in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana. The claims stem from a 1934 agreement between Edward Charles Edmond Barq Sr., the company's founder, and Jesse Robinson, his son born out of wedlock. 

Coca-Cola purchased New Orleans-based Barq's in 1995 for nearly $92 million, the complaint says. 

The long history in this case stretches back to the late 1890s, when Edward Barq Sr. formed Barq Brothers Bottling Co. in New Orleans, the complaint says. 

In 1897, Edward Barq moved to Biloxi, Miss., with his wife and founded the Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works. While in Biloxi, Barq fathered Jesse Robinson out of wedlock, the complaint says. 

Barq's wife allowed him to bring Robinson into the family home but blocked his attempts to formally adopt his son, the complaint says. 

Robinson got into the beverage business almost by accident, reportedly winning the Cascade Water Bottling Co. of New Orleans in a poker game on a Mississippi River boat in the 1920s, the complaint says. 

Barq encouraged Robinson to transform his plant into a Barq's production facility soon after, where he became instrumental in distributing Barq's root beer and other beverages throughout Louisiana, the complaint says. 

In 1934, Barq gave Robinson exclusive rights to use the family formula for soft drinks, including root beer, in all of Louisiana except Washington Parish, as well as the name Barq's, according to the complaint. 

Robinson refined the formula for Barq's root beer such that there was a distinct difference between what was sold in Mississippi and what was sold in Louisiana, the complaint says. In 1946, Robinson formed Barq’s Beverages Inc. to exercise his rights in Louisiana. 

After Robinson died in 1949, he passed along one half of his company, which held the franchise for Barq's root beer in most of Louisiana, to his wife Marie Vicknair Robinson, with the remaining half divided evenly among his three children, Arthur, Betty and Yula, the complaint says. 

When Marie Robinson died in 1979, her half of the property was divided evenly among the three children, according to the complaint. 

Arthur Robinson, whose three children launched the suit, became president of Barq's Beverages and he refined the formula for the company's famous root beer, the complaint says. But in 1970, his mother suffered a stroke, and Arthur Robinson was forced to sell his interest in the company to his sisters, who had barred him from entering the factory with police backing and no apparent reason, according to the complaint. 

The sale of Arthur Robinson's interest in Barq's, through a series of transactions, are null under Louisiana law, the complaint says, meaning he and his heirs are still entitled to now a one-third interest in the company. 

Two New Orleans attorneys purchased the Mississippi branch of Barq's in 1976 and in 1988 bought Barq's Beverages for nearly $5 million after losing a copyright lawsuit to the Robinson family's company, the complaint says. 

The unified company adopted the Louisiana root beer formula developed by Arthur Robinson as the one used for production, the complaint says. 

Arthur Robinson died in 1996. 

It is unclear from the complaint whether Arthur Robinson's estate is pursuing one-third of the unified Barq's or one-third of Barq's Beverages, but the difference could mean a steep price for Coca-Cola. 

Counsel for both the Robinson estate and Coca-Cola could not be reached for comment. 

The Robinson estate is represented by The Kramer Law Firm. 

No counsel information was immediately available for Coca-Cola. 

The case is Robinson v. Coca-Cola Co., case number 10-cv-03060, in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Follow up ...

Coke Wins - 2011



Coke Wins Dismissal Of Suit Over Barq's Stake


By Martin Bricketto

Law360, New York (January 7, 2011, 5:50 PM ET) -- The Coca-Cola Co. has won the toss of a contract suit brought by the heirs of the founder of Barq's Inc., who claimed they were owed compensation for an existing ownership stake in the root beer company.

In a ruling on Wednesday, Judge Carl Barbier of the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana dismissed the suit brought by the estate of Arthur Robinson — son of Jasper "Jesse" Louis Robinson — with prejudice at the plaintiff's cost.

The estate had contended that the sale of Arthur Robinson's interest in Barq's, through a series of transactions, was null under Louisiana law. He died in 1996.

An attorney for Coca-Cola, David Patron of Phelps Dunbar LLP, said Friday that the judge essentially adopted the company's arguments that the agreements in which Arthur Robinson transferred his interest in the Barq's companies were valid and secondly, even if those agreements were null, that Coca-Cola was immune from liability as a good-faith, third-party purchaser.

As indicated by Patron, Coca-Cola argued in its November motion seeking dismissal that Arthur Robinson unequivocally sold his interest in Barq's decades ago.

Coca-Cola, which acquired Barq's in 1995, said his family's ownership interest in the manufacture and sale of Barq's products in Louisiana ended more than 22 years ago, and the last contract in which Arthur Robinson disposed of his final interests in Barq’s Beverages Inc., a related company, was in 1980.

“It was not until the plaintiff was faced with an insolvent estate that these untimely claims were manufactured as a last gasp attempt to cash in [again],” the company said in its motion.

An attorney for the estate could not be immediately reached for comment Friday.

The tangled corporate and family histories in the case stretch back to the late 1890s when Edward Charles Edmond Barq Sr., the company's founder, formed Barq Brothers Bottling Co. in New Orleans, according to the complaint filed in September.

In 1897, Barq moved to Biloxi, Miss., with his wife and founded the Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works. While in Biloxi, Barq fathered Jesse Robinson out of wedlock, the complaint said.

Robinson got into the beverage business almost by accident, reportedly winning the Cascade Water Bottling Co. of New Orleans in a poker game on a Mississippi River boat in the 1920s, it said.

Barq then encouraged Robinson to transform his plant into a Barq's production facility soon after, the complaint said.

In 1934, Barq gave Robinson exclusive rights to use the family formula for soft drinks, including root beer, in nearly all of Louisiana, as well as the name Barq's, according to the complaint.

Robinson refined the formula for Barq's root beer such that there was a distinct difference between what was sold in Mississippi and what was sold in Louisiana, the complaint said. In 1946, Robinson formed Barq’s Beverages Inc. to exercise his rights in Louisiana.

After Robinson died in 1949, he passed along half of his company, which held the franchise for Barq's root beer in most of Louisiana, to his wife Marie Vicknair Robinson, with the remaining half divided evenly among his three children, Arthur, Betty and Yula, according to the complaint

When Marie Robinson died in 1979, her half of the property was divided evenly among the three children, the complaint said.

Arthur Robinson, whose three children launched the suit, became president of Barq's Beverages and he refined the formula for the company's famous root beer, the complaint says. But in 1970, his mother suffered a stroke, and he was forced to sell his interest in the company to his sisters, according to the complaint.

Two New Orleans attorneys then purchased the Mississippi branch of Barq's in 1976 and in 1988 bought Barq's Beverages for nearly $5 million, the complaint said.

The Robinson estate is represented by The Kramer Law Firm PA.

Coca-Cola is represented by Phelps Dunbar.

The case is Robinson v. Coca-Cola Co., case number 10-cv-03060, in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana.


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## Bass Assassin

Wow, I disappear for a few days and come back and find all this information! Fantastic work Bob, many many thanks for providing this arsenal of knowledge. I had been thinking to myself I never see any early Barq's bottles and couldn't understand why. Like you I truly believe some of those early bottles must be rare. Great work and I can't wait to see what else you come up with. I bet an early ice cold Barq's would taste pretty good right about now


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## SODAPOPBOB

Bass

Thanks

My main focus has developed into a search for *anything* related to *Barq Brothers Bottling*. There is ample information available about Barq's Root Beer and everything related to it since about 1900, but almost nothing about Barq Brothers Bottling. I find this strange because it was established in 1890, which was a full ten years before Barq's Root Beer got going. You'd think there would be something other than a handful of newspaper articles, especially when you take into account the Barq brothers won a gold medal at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair for their Sparkling Orangine drink. Even if they used generic, unembossed Hutchinson bottles for Orangine and other brands, surely there must be some paper labels out there somewhere. I plan to continue searching a little longer, but starting to think I'm going to strike out. If/when a Barq Brothers item is ever found, I believe it will one of the rarest soda pop collectibles known.


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## SODAPOPBOB

This newspaper article was published while the 1893 Chicago World's Fair was open. The women it refers to was Marie Barq, who was Edward Barq's wife. Notice where it says ...

*"Every bottle bears a certificate of purity, ..."*

From ...

The Meridional  ~  Abbeville, Louisiana  ~  August 5, 1893

[ Cropped into two sections ]


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

The 1893 article I just posted was published before the fair ended and before Orangine received the gold medal as the best beverage at the fair.


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. - P.S.

The 1893 article says the woman [Marie Barq] set up her stand on ...

"the veranda of the Louisiana State Building"

The Louisiana State Building is located at *B-11* on this map of the fair ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

This is an original picture of the Louisiana State Building at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair. Barely visible on the right side of the porch is Marie Barq's Sparkling Orangine booth.



This cropped image is from different original photo where you can see a portion of Marie Barq's booth. Notice on the canvas roof where you can see a portion of the words ...

*Sparkling Orangine*

(Note: If/when I find a better close up, I will post it. This is the best I can find at the moment)



This link is to an eBay print of the Louisiana State Building where you can mouse-zoom and see the Sparkling Orangine booth on the right side of the porch ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1893-Chicag...635077?hash=item464ba23fc5:g:tuAAAOSwJQdW~xXd


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the link where I found the second image I posted. It has a zoom feature that allows a clear close up of the Sparkling Orangine booth. However, for some reason saving images from it is a little tricky. Perhaps someone else will have better luck with it than I have. Please share the image(s) with us if you are successful - Thanks!

http://gildedage.lib.niu.edu/islandora/object/niu-gildedage:19990


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## SODAPOPBOB

I couldn't save a decent image from the website so I used my printer and created this ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

And this ...


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## Bass Assassin

Nice work, great photo


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## SODAPOPBOB

Now I'm wondering who *"Barq & Hughes"* were that are mentioned in this 1894 reference? 

https://books.google.com/books?id=D...EIMjAA#v=onepage&q=Sparkling Orangine&f=false


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## SODAPOPBOB

I just discovered that "Orangine" won a bronze medal at the *1904 St. Louis World's Fair* ...

Note:  The MK stands for Marie K Barq





So where the heck are all of the bottles, labels, signs, etc? I can't find a single example!


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## SODAPOPBOB

To emphasize ...

It was eleven years between the 1893 Chicago World's Fair and the 1904 St Louis World's Fair. So why can't I find something related to "Orangine" during that eleven year time period? Surely there must be something along the lines of bottles, labels, etc.


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## Bass Assassin

Like you, i'm  starting to believe they were paper labeled hutches.


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## SODAPOPBOB

The plot thickens ...

Sparkling Orangine was also bottled and sold by ...

1. St. Peter's Bottling Company  ~  Reserve, Louisiana

Reserve, Louisiana is located about 30 miles northwest of New Orleans. This link is to a pdf file about the history of Reserve where I printed the attached Page 50

http://pontalbacommunications.com/docs/Prescious Gems 2.pdf 

Notice where it says ...

"The company manufactured Sparkling Orangine, Ginger Dew, ..."

The article doesn't specify exactly when they bottled Orangine, but I suspect it was early. St. Peter's Bottling Company was established in 1893 - Was sold to Albert Heltz and changed its name to St. Peter's Bottling Works in 1913 - And ceased operation in 1933.

Note:  I have not found a connection yet between the Barq Brothers / Barq Bottling and St. Peter's Bottling / Albert Heltz, but I'm still searching.

 






Sparkling Orangine was also sold by ...

2.  R. R. Jeter  ~  Colfax, Louisiana

Colfax is located about 200 miles northwest of New Orleans. 

It doesn't appear that R. R. Jeter bottled Orangine, but rather just sold it at his post office. At one time, R. R. Jeter was the mayor of Colfax, and also had other business interest such as real estate. 

Ad from ...

The Colfax Chronicle  ~  Colfax, Louisiana  ~  March 10, 1894


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## SODAPOPBOB

*If ...*

If the various bottlers and merchants used paper labels, there should be at least three or four different Orangine examples ...

1. Barq Brothers / Barq Bottling - Biloxi, Louisiana - New Orleans ?

2. St. Peter's Bottling Company/Works - Reserve, Louisiana

3. Albert Heltz - Reserve, Louisana

4. R. R. Jeter - Colfax, Louisiana 
   (If he just sold it and didn't bottle it, the label could show a different bottler's name) ?


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## SODAPOPBOB

Which takes me back to and makes me wonder about this from ...

1893


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## SODAPOPBOB

*Ginger Dew ...*


I mentioned this brand earlier but still haven't been able to find out very much about it. This particular snippet is from a 1894 New Orleans newspaper and is part of a list of various products that were to be displayed at ... 

The Interstate Fair - Sioux City, Iowa - October 4, 1894 through October 13, 1894


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## Bass Assassin

If these other locations were bottling orangine, maybe they had franchises?


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## SODAPOPBOB

I posted this 1900 article earlier but wanted to take another look at it. Notice the highlighted area where it says ... 

"... pop bottles branded as follows:"

And that the Barq Brothers is listed at number 11.

So, exactly what does the word "branded" mean? Does it mean "embossed" or does it mean branded with a "paper label" or possibly both - embossed and/or a paper label? 




This next snippet is from a 1903 San Francisco newspaper and is not directly related to Barq's, but notice where it says ...

" ... bottles, branded by letters blown in the glass with the names of the bottlers ..." 

Note:  Even though this is inclusive, for me it presents the possibility that Barq Brothers bottles could have been embossed.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Bass Assassin said:


> If these other locations were bottling orangine, maybe they had franchises?




I'm searching for evidence along those lines but haven't found anything, yet ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

Question(s) ...

If paper labels came off easily in ice or water, or just from general handling, then why would the 1900 article make such a big deal about returning "branded" bottles? If the paper label came off, how would they know who it belonged to if it wasn't embossed with the bottler's name?


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

Are we certain that all of the Hutchinson bottles are embossed with "Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works" and that some of them might be embossed with "Barq Brothers"  ???


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## SODAPOPBOB

For future reference, here's a good picture of a typical Barq Hutchinson bottle embossed with ...

Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works - E. Barq Prop.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Variation , embossed with ...

Barq's Bottling Works (No 'Biloxi' or 'Artesian') Gulfport, Mississippi - E. BARQ


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## SODAPOPBOB

Reminder ...

All of the "Barq Brothers" references I'm familiar with are from New Orleans, Louisiana and not Biloxi or Gulfport, Mississippi


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## SODAPOPBOB

Just for the record ...

Portions of this Wikipedia account about Barq's is incorrect ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barq's

The Barq's Brothers Bottling Company was founded in 1898 in the French Quarter of New Orleans, by Edward Charles Edmond Barq and his older brother, Gaston. The Barq Brothers bottled carbonated water and various soft drinks of their own creation. Early on their most popular creation was an orange-flavored soda called Orangine, which won a gold medal at the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition World's Fair in Chicago, Illinois. (Needs verification.)


Note: I confident we have established that Barq Brothers Bottling was established in New Orleans in 1890 and not in 1898 as the Wikipedia account states. And as far as the (Needs verification) part goes regarding "Orangine," I'm confident we have fully verified that it did in fact exist!


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## SODAPOPBOB

Three variations grouped together - each one is slightly different from the other ...

... but no Barq Brothers!


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## Bass Assassin

Those are great bottles.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a 1893 Chicago Exposition souvenir I created for you Barq collectors ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

Correction ...

Marie Barq was Edward Barg's mother and not his wife. Edward Barq's wife's name was Ellodie (Grangnard) and they were married in 1897. 

And if you think that's a little confusing, wait until you see what follows!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

For starters, please be reminded ... 

1. The earliest date I can find for Barq Brothers Bottling is 1890

2. The earliest connection I can find between Barq and Sparkling Orangine is 1893

And yet, here is a reference for Orangine from ...

The Woodland Daily Democrat - Woodland, California - June 5, *1890*

(Notice the reference to "Schmidt & Co." Stockton, California)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And now we jump from Woodland, California to ...

The Reno Gazette-Journal - Reno, Nevada - April 1, *1892*

(Notice the reference to "H. J. Thyes")

(Also notice the reference to "State Agent - Schmidt & Co.'s Orangine")


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Which now brings us to ...

The Reno Gazette-Journal - Reno, Nevada - July 15, *1893*

Note: When this article was published, Marie Barq was serving "Orangine" at the 1893 Chicago Exposition!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Questions ...

1. Who were Schmidt & Company?

2. Who was H. J. Thyes?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:


> Questions ...
> 
> 1. Who were Schmidt & Company?
> 
> 2. Who was H. J. Thyes?



Answers? ...

1. Schmidt & Company manufactured "Orangine" in Stockton, California

2. H. J. Thyes was the state agent for "Orangine" in Reno, Nevada


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a couple of even bigger questions ...

1. Were "Sparkling Orangine" and "Orangine" the same beverage or different?

2. If the same, who first developed it - Schmidt & Company or the Barq Brothers?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Reminder ...




SODAPOPBOB said:


> 1. Orangine Bottle
> 2. Cascade Bottling Works
> 3. New Orleans, Louisiana
> 4. Owens-Illinois Glass Company
> 
> I can't make out the date number, but because Owens-Illinois was established in 1929-1930 the bottle has to date sometime after that, probably circa 1930s. I do not know if there is a connection between Barq's Bottling and Cascade Bottling, but I do know that both were in operation at the same time in New Orleans. I have seen references for Cascade Bottling that date as early as the 1920s and as late as the 1940s. I intend to research this further and see what I can find. I can't say for certain at this juncture, but the odds are good that the Orangine bottle cap likely came from one of these bottles.
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
> 
> 
> View attachment 171781
> 
> View attachment 171782
> 
> The small embossing under the word Orangine might be something like 'Gold Medal Drink' ???
> 
> View attachment 171783
> 
> View attachment 171784


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Another Reminder ...

Plus, we now know that Jesse Robinson was the illegitimate son of Edward Barq!



SODAPOPBOB said:


> Here's some additional information about Jesse Robinson and the Cascade Bottling Works ...
> 
> Link to 1922 Re-Ly-On Bottler magazine
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=c...v=onepage&q=Orangine cascade bottling&f=false
> 
> From a 1922 New Orleans newspaper
> 
> View attachment 171797
> 
> From a 1979 Newspaper -
> Jesse Robinson was not 'adopted' by Edward Barq but was raised by him. I don't know all of the details about their 1934 agreement, but based on the previous information, Jesse Robinson was the owner/manager of Cascade Bottling Works at least as early as 1922.
> 
> View attachment 171798
> 
> Here's another brand from the Cascade Bottling Works -
> 
> "Big V Five" (Date unknown but likely 1920s-1930s)
> 
> (They also bottled "Orangine" and "Barq's")
> 
> View attachment 171799
> 
> View attachment 171800
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm currently trying to fill the gap between 1893 when "Orangine" won a gold medal in Chicago and its appearance with the Cascade Bottling Works in the 1920s-30s. So far its a mystery to me what became of "Orangine" after it was apparently first bottled in 1893.*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Another Question ...

If "Orangine" is connected with Schmidt & Company in Stockton, California as early as 1890, then how did it occur that Jesse Robinson bottled it in New Orleans in the 1930s?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

The earliest reference for "Franchise" I can find in connection with Barq's Bottling is the one that was established between Edward Barq and Jesse Robinson / Cascade Bottling in *1934*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Of the numerous histories I've read about Barq's, I like this one the best ...

(Scroll back to start of Chapter 29) 

Notice where it says ...

"While in New Orleans, Edward Barq Sr. *formulated* an orange drink, called Orangine ..."

https://books.google.com/books?id=k...DEIQ6AEILDAB#v=onepage&q=Barq nervine&f=false


----------



## SODAPOPBOB




----------



## SODAPOPBOB

These Orangine bottles had to of been embossed or had paper labels in order for them to be identified and listed in this liquidation notice from ...

The St. Landry Clarion - Opelousas, Louisiana - June 9, *1894*



Opelousas, Louisiana



The liquidation auction was in Washington, Louisiana


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Regarding the name W. C. Triay who was liquidated in the 1894 Washington, Louisiana auction, it appears he was a businessman in Washington and possibly maintained some type of merchandise warehouse. I can't find anything that indicates he had a store or bottling operation - although he might have.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And just when you thought it was safe to go back into the water, we come to this from ...

A *1909* Goldsboro, North Carolina newspaper ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Last but not least ...

*Where the heck are all of the Orangine bottles and/or paper labels?*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Oops! I forgot this  ...

I'm not sure if this 1893 ad I posted earlier is referring to two individual quart-size bottles or a single two-quart bottle, but regardless of that, exactly what did a single-quart or a two-quart soda bottle look like in *1893*?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

In answer to my own question ...

This is from an 1887 issue of the "Bottlers Gazette" magazine ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

By the way ...

There is also a green and white "Orangine" Acl bottle. I don't know much about it yet except ...

1. Its from New Orleans, Louisiana
2. It has the words "Gold Medal" on it
3. Its considered extremely rare
4. Its a 12 Ounce bottle

Note:  I have seen several references for this bottle, but this is the only picture of one I have been able to find. I do not know who bottled it nor its date! 

Chris Weide's Website link - Scroll to "Orangine"

http://www.ca-yd.com/textfile/bottles/WANTLIST.HTM


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Back to the embossed "Orangine" bottle by the Cascade Bottling Works of New Orleans for a closer look ...

Do you see what I see or am I seeing things?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-C...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557







*Owens-Illinois 1937 ?*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

In Conclusion (Possibly for sure this time ) ...

I might never find an Orangine bottle - and would consider buying it if I did - but I'm definitely going to keep my eyes peeled for one of these ... 

Notice ...

1. Its embossed with "Root Beer" instead of "It's Good" like the later bottles 
2. Its embossed with "Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works"
3. It appears to be dated 1935 - If so, it would likely be a first issue bottle


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

According to this historical marker and similar references, Barq's Root Beer was only bottled at this particular Biloxi, Mississippi location until ...


1936


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Which means a 1935 bottle would have come from that little white building! Right?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a little more info in an attempt to make sense of the connection between *Barq & Hughes* and various addresses ...

First I need to establish this *1893* address for the Barq Brothers, which has them located at ...

*547 Royal Street*



And here's that address from Google Earth. I'm not certain which one of the businesses is 547, but its one of those that's located under the flags. Notice the wall plaque where I placed the yellow arrow. That might be a historical plaque that says something about the building itself.



In this next picture, notice that Royal Street is just one block from Bourbon Street.



(To be continued)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Next up is this *1895* newspaper snippet that has the Barq Brothers located at ...

*Tonti and Laharpe Streets*

Note: The article is in reference to the Barq Brothers being granted permission to use steam power. Apparently sometime between 1893 and 1895 the Barq Brothers moved from Royal Street to Laharpe Street. 



(To be continued)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And here's the part I'm trying to make sense of ...

Its from a *1896* New Orleans newspaper and involves some type of court ordered sale against ...

*Barq & Hughes*

Notice it mentions ...

1. Cordial Factory (Cordials are sweet, alcoholic liqueurs)
2. Laharpe and Tonti Streets
3. Boiler and Engine (Steam)



Note: This was just one year after the 1895 article I posted about the Barq Brothers getting steam power at Tonti and Laharpe streets, and yet now we see where someone named Hughes is involved with one of the Barq's at the same address and are having to liquidate a cordial factory. There is no mention of the Barq Brothers! Who knows, maybe it was a dual purpose business and they produced soda pop along with cordials. But as it stands now I have no explanation for this and it remains a mystery to me! Nor do I know who Mr. Hughes was and don't have a first name for him. 

(To be continued)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

As this next article will confirm, and others I have seen similar to it, the actual address mentioned in the previous two articles was ...

*2300 Laharpe Street* (Which was at the 'corner' of Tonti Street)

This article is about the younger brother's, Jules Barq, funeral following his suicide. Jules committed suicide on December 12th and was buried on December 14th. And even though the previous article about the liquidation was from February of 1896, this article is from December of 1896. Which means the Barq's apparently still owned the property on Laharpe Street even though they liquidated the business. 

(The main reason I'm posting this article is to establish the *2300* aspect of Laharpe Street)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And here's 2300 Larharpe Street from Google Earth ...



Even though barely visible in this picture, 2300 can be seen just above what appears to be a basement or ground floor entrance. The entire building itself is quite large and I'm not sure if it's a single residence or a bunch of apartments. But whatever the case, the 2300 part of it appears to be separate. I do not know if the Barq's owned and used the entire building or just part of it. Its in a residential area and seems a strange place for a bottling plant and/or cordial factory.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And then for some reason the Barq's moved to Biloxi, Mississippi in 1897-98

Note:  I'm not sure what the reason(s) were, but perhaps it had something to do with ...

1. The Liquidation in New Orleans
2. Jules Barq's death
3. Both of the above
4. Other?

*Keller Avenue - Biloxi, Mississippi*

(In a residential area just a few blocks from the beach)


----------



## Bass Assassin

So, was Barq's first bottled in New Orleans? You've come up with some great information Bob


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bass

Thanks


Barq's Root Beer was first produced and bottled in Biloxi, Mississippi! 

Here's the rest of the story ... (In brief)


The Barq's story begins in about 1890, when Edward Charles Edmond Barq Sr. created Barq Brothers Bottling Co. in the French Quarter of new Orleans, Louisiana. Barq stopped operating the company in 1897 and moved to Biloxi, Mississippi, where he founded the Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works in 1899. By 1901-02, he was selling a sarsaparilla-based drink called Barq's in Biloxi. The first franchise came in 1934 with a Mobile, Alabama firm. 

At some point in the early 1900s, Barq fathered a child, Jasper "Jesse" Louis Robinson, out of wedlock. Robinson lived with the Barq family.

Robinson, at the urging of Barq, created and operated a Barq's production facility in New Orleans. In 1934, Barq gave Robinson the right to use the Barq's formula and name to sell root beer in all of Louisiana, excluding Washington Parish, while Barq maintained the exclusive rights to operate in Mississippi.

The operations were so separate that each had its own formula for Barq's root beer.

In 1936, Barq dissolved Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works and created Barq's Inc. to operate the Mississippi Barq's enterprise. Ten years later, after Barq died, Robinson formed Barq's Beverages Inc. to oversee the Louisiana territories.



Note: So it was Jesse Robinson who first "bottled" Barq's Root Beer in Louisiana in 1934. However, I'm sure it was sold in Louisiana much earlier than that. I'm currently searching to see if I can determine who the first franchisee was in Mobile, Alabama.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bass

I'm still searching for the first Barq's franchisee in Mobile, Alabama, but one candidate might be ... 

*Bellingrath Coca Cola Bottling* ... (Needs Verification)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another candidate ... (Needs Verification)

*Russ Beverage Co. - Mobile, Alabama*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Hmmm ...

This is interesting ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Error / Ignore / I'll Be Back!


----------



## Bass Assassin

Thanks for clearing things up for me Bob. Such great information. I'm thankful for all of your research.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a picture of the Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works building as it appeared in *1981*. In was in 1981 that an application was filed to designate it a historic Biloxi, Mississippi landmark. The application was approved in 1983. Prior to 1981 the building was pretty much abandoned and boarded up and used for storage. When the 1981 application was filed the building was owned by Mrs. Edward C. Barq III. I'm not certain who owns it today, but it could still be owned by a member of the Barq family. 

Notice ...

1. There is no writing on the building.

2. The double doors in front but no steps. 
    If it had steps they could have been removed - or else it was a loading dock.

3. The windows are boarded up.

4. No historic sign.

1981 




2016



Historical Sign 

Look close at the bottom where it says ...

"Mississippi Department of Archives and History 1983"


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the 'souvenir' version I created for Barq collectors ...

Note: This is the earliest picture of the building that I'm aware of.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This bottle is described as possibly being the one that preceded the 1935 patent version and apparently is extremely rare. Date unknown but possibly early 1930s. It most likely had a paper label - that I am currently looking for ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Almost every account I've seen states that the Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works moved from Keller Avenue and relocated to 604 Lameuse Street, Biloxi, Mississipi in 1936 and at the same time changed the company name to Barq's Incorporated. Here's what is supposed to be the official registration, which indicates the move and name change was complete by October 26, 1936

Name: BARQ'S INCORPORATED

File ID: 108379

Business ID: 436128

Name Type: Legal

Status: Name Change

Creation Date: 10/26/1936

Registered Agent:  WILLIAM A BARQ - 604 LAMEUSE ST, BILOXI, MS 

Officers and Directors: E BARQ SR - ELODIE BARQ


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This Orangine bottle was described as being from Mobile, Alabama - but it did not mention a date or bottler. However, its possible that it came from Russ Beverages. These Orangine acl bottles are supposed to have the words 'Gold Medal' on them, but I can't make out all of the wording near the bottom where the words 'Gold Medal' might be. Perhaps someone else can make out the words better than I can, even though I've tried everything I can think of. The third word might be 'Medal' but I'm not certain. I wish I could find a larger picture of one of these bottles. 

This particular example appears to be a 6 or 7 ounce bottle ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bass Assassin said:


> I think at some point the father and son split up and the son went to New Orleans and began his own bottling operation. One was using a blue label and the other used a red label.



Bass

I'm currently trying to figure out the truth about the Blue vs. Red acl bottles, with several references having this to say about it ... 

Copy/Pasted

In 1934 Edward Barq, Sr. and Jesse Robinson signed a contractual agreement on Barq's product rights. The agreement was unique from other franchises in many aspects. One, that Robinson was allowed to make his own concentrate. The two men remained close their entire lives, working on flavors and production challenges. A distinctive difference between the Biloxi-based root beer and the Louisiana's was that the Louisiana bottle was printed in red (versus Biloxi's blue). This was to distinguish ownership of bottles as blue labeled ones were returned to Mississippi and vice-versa. There were also regional taste differences between the various Barq's bottlers. While there may have been minor formula differences, water generally defined these differences.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

To remember which was which, I think of them as ...

*Biloxi Blues*

*Louisiana Reds*

... and will be searching for examples to see if this proves consistent.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I'm also trying to figure out and date this bottle.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nice-Antiqu...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Notice ...

1. Its marked with Biloxi, Mississippi
2. Its marked with what appears to be a LGW for Laurens Glass Works
3. Its marked with Trade Mark Applied For
4. Its marked with Barq's Root Beer Company

Main Questions ...

A.  When was it made?
B.  Why does it say Trade Mark *Applied* For?
C.  When was the name Barq's Root Beer *Company* established/used?  

Note: Barq's first patented bottle was in 1935. So exactly what aspect of this acl bottle was being "applied for" as a trademark?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Reminders ...

1. The name "Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works" was changed to "Barq's Incorporated" when they relocated to Lameuse Street in 1936

2. "Barq's Beverages" was the name that Jesse Robinson used in Louisiana

Question ...

So why does the mystery ACL have "Barq's Beverages" on the label but "Biloxi, Mississippi" on the base?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Perhaps part of the answer can be found among the legal jargon from this 1987 court case ...

Barq's Inc., a Mississippi corporation, (hereinafter Barq's Biloxi) a manufacturer and seller of soft drinks which does business among the several states except in Louisiana, filed a trademark infringement suit against Barq's Beverages, Inc. (hereinafter Barq's New Orleans) and Barq's Beverages of Baton Rouge (hereinafter Barq's Baton Rouge) also manufacturers and sellers of soft drinks (jointly referred to as Barq's Louisiana) who do business only in a limited area within the State of Louisiana.

http://www.leagle.com/decision/19871126677FSupp449_11035/BARQ'S INC. v. BARQ'S BEVERAGES, INC.


----------



## sunrunner

I have only found bottles with Barq's embossed on them from the 1930's .


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:


> This bottle is described as possibly being the one that preceded the 1935 patent version and apparently is extremely rare. Date unknown but possibly early 1930s. It most likely had a paper label - that I am currently looking for ...
> 
> View attachment 172047



Here's a follow-up on this bottle. The link is to a 2008 forum thread where member wonkapete said ...

https://www.antique-bottles.net/showthread.php?182815-Mississippi-Bottles

"The first one is a tough one to find - Barq's embossed on the shoulder. It's the first 12 oz from the *1920s*."


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I guess I'm obsessed with finding out more about "Orangine / Sparkling Orangine" and currently trying to find confirmation for statements like this ...

*"It [Orangine] was basically a predecessor to Moon Glo"

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361220422216*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

So far this is the earliest reference for "Moon Glo" that I can find ...

McKinney, Texas *1939*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a "Moon Glo" acl bottle said to be marked with ...

*4 LGW 1* - For Laurens Glass Works 1941


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another reference to a 1941 LGW "Moon Glo" bottle where a commenter said ...

"Barq's trademarked this name [Moon Glo] in about 1939 and was one of the very few times their advertising or bottles targeted a specific flavor."


http://www.collectorsweekly.com/stories/128990-barqs-moon-glo


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

Here's a picture of the base on the "Moon Glo" bottle I just posted a link to from the 2014 Collectors Weekly article. The 4LGW1 is probably on the heel, but notice its embossed with ... 

1. Barq's Beverage
2. Biloxi, Mississippi


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This Root Beer website goes so far as to say ...

BARQ’s

"It was founded by brothers Edward and Gaston Barq from new Orleans, whose initial success came in selling a product called Orangine (Orange-soda)." 

https://summerfruitcup.wordpress.com/2011/page/10/


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

As you can see, it appears that "Orangine" could very well have played a major role in the Barq's success story. And if "Orangine" did in fact morph into "Moon Glo" then that might explain what became of "Orangine" 

(More research is required to confirm or refute the various claims related to Orangine and Moon Glo)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This collector says he has a "Moon Glo" bottle that was made by the Laurens Glass Works in *1939* ...

"One of my favorites is a beauty of a bottle that is believed to be a very rare Mississippi soft drink bottle called a "Moon-Glo." It was made in 1939 by the Laurens Glass Works of Laurens, South Carolina for the Barq's Beverage Company of Biloxi."


http://www.thefreelibrary.com/The+c...painted+label+bottles+can+be+a...-a0166695206


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Apparently this is the rarest of the "Moon Glo" bottles. Its from Corpus Christi, Texas and described as being made by the Laurens Glass Works in *1940* ...

http://www.lilter.com/pricewatch.php?id=656540

( I can't say for certain, but it appears to have diamond embossing on the shoulder. It definitely has "Barq's" embossed within the so called diamond embossing )


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a better picture of the label on a LGW 1940 Moon Glo acl bottle from Corpus Christi, Texas ...

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/extremely-vintage-12oz-lauren-glass-403806849


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Which came first ...

1. The chicken or the egg?

2. Schmidt & Company Orangine or Barq Brothers Orangine?

Well, I'm starting to think the Barq Brothers were up to some shenanigans when they advertised Orangine as their own brand and served it at the 1893 Chicago Exposition where they won a gold medal. 

The reason I say this is because ...

*Schmidt & Company - Stockton, California*

... had filed for a Trademark for a beverage called Orangine in ...

1888

Check it out!

http://exhibits.sos.ca.gov/items/show/1588






Perhaps this explains why the Barq Brothers Orangine faded into the sunset around 1895?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Just for the record ...

Here's the letter that accompanied the 1888 Schmidt & Company's trademark application for Orangine ...







But what I don't know is if a California Trademark is the same as a U.S. Trademark? Notice in the link info where it has ...

Coverage - Stockton, CA


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

For future reference ...

Schmidt & Company, Stockton, California consisted of ...

*Clara H Schmidt and Walter B Starbird*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Schmidt & Company ...

*1891 Stockton, California Directory*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This was described as a circa 1890s Trade Card ...





The back is stamped with ...

*The New Tonic Beverage  ~  "Orangine"*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

1888-1889 U.S. Patent for ...

*Aerated Tonic Beverage*

By ...

*Walter B. Starbird  ~  Stockton, California*


Note: The ingredients sound more like the Schmidt & Company's "Iron Water" than it does for their "Orangine." Notice it contained alcohol. 

http://www.google.com/patents/US396440


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

The Aerated Tonic Beverage was also recommended for children, so the alcoholic content must have been minimal. Where it mentions alcohol it says something about it being "leached off."


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

For Reference ...

*Tonic*

Noun: 

1. A medicine that invigorates or strengthens.
2. A tonic of sulphur and molasses.


*Tonic Water* according to Wikipedia

(Such as that used by Canada Dry and similar beverages)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonic_water


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Reminder ...


1890


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*I say again ...*





SODAPOPBOB said:


> View attachment 171971


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

In search of ...

*Any* Schmidt & Company bottle, paper label, sign, etc.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Schmidt & Company  ~  Mineral Water  ~  Stockton, California

Established in *1886*

https://books.google.com/books?id=U...chmidt company mineral water Stockton&f=false


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another one of those Schmidt & Company trade cards with "Orangine" stamped on the back. I haven't been able to accurately date these cards, but suspect they are circa 1889 because of the word "New" used in connection with Orangine.



Note: Where I titled this image circa 1900 is a typo and should be circa 1889




Which raises the question ...

Was the Schmidt & Company Orangine and the Barq Brothers Orangine the same beverage or was it just a coincidence that both companies happened to use the same name at about the same time?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

Because "Orangine" is stamped on the back of the trade cards and not the front along with "Sarsaparilla" and "Iron Water" this leads me to suspect that the trade cards themselves were originally used prior to when "Orangine" was first introduced. In other words, the trade cards could date as early as 1886 when the Schmidt & Company was established and then stamped with "Orangine" when it was introduced around 1889.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Next Question ...

Schmidt & Company was established in 1886!

Q: But how long did they remain in operation? 

A: I'm not sure but trying to find out!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:


> This was described as a circa 1890s Trade Card ...
> 
> View attachment 172132
> 
> View attachment 172133
> 
> The back is stamped with ...
> 
> *The New Tonic Beverage  ~  "Orangine"*
> 
> View attachment 172134




This newspaper snippet should shed some light on the Schmidt & Company advertising/trade cards.  

From ...

Reno, Nevada *1890*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I'm still searching for the latest reference for the Schmidt & Company and along the way found this ...

Its a patent listing for a brand of beverage called "*Kickapoo Springs Mineral Water*"

From *1888*




Note:  I realize all of this Schmidt & Company stuff might seem off topic, but because there was so much hoopla about the Barq's "Orangine" winning a gold medal and apparently being their flagship beverage that got Barq's going, I'm just trying to figure out which company actually developed "Orangine" first. I'm also trying to figure out if the two brands were the same beverage or different. As it stands now I'm really not sure!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Reminder ...*



SODAPOPBOB said:


> Which came first ...
> 
> 1. The chicken or the egg?
> 
> 2. Schmidt & Company Orangine or Barq Brothers Orangine?
> 
> Well, I'm starting to think the Barq Brothers were up to some shenanigans when they advertised Orangine as their own brand and served it at the 1893 Chicago Exposition where they won a gold medal.
> 
> The reason I say this is because ...
> 
> *Schmidt & Company - Stockton, California*
> 
> ... had filed for a Trademark for a beverage called Orangine in ...
> 
> 1888
> 
> Check it out!
> 
> http://exhibits.sos.ca.gov/items/show/1588
> 
> View attachment 172125
> 
> View attachment 172126
> 
> 
> Perhaps this explains why the Barq Brothers Orangine faded into the sunset around 1895?




If in fact Barq Brothers Bottling was established in 1890 as every reference indicates, then it seems apparent that Schmidt & Company's 1888 Orangine Trademark preceded anything the Barq Brothers ever produced. Okay, fine! But how do we explain the Barq Brothers coming up with a beverage by the same name that won a gold medal at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

By the way ...

Schmidt & Company distributed some of their beverages in Honolulu, Hawaii in ...

1890


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This is still the latest date I can find for "Orangine" - but I do not know if it was a Barq Brothers or a Schmidt & Co. brand, or if it was possibly produced by someone else.

Note: As for the "Orangine" bottles I posted earlier that were produced by the Cascade Bottling Company in New Orleans in the 1930s and later, those are as big of a mystery to me as the rest of this is!     

Goldsboro, North Carolina

1909


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

If you aren't confused enough already, this should do it!  

I found numerous references and advertisements for this product early on, but figure its time to throw another wrench into the gears. It pertains to a brand of Headache Powder called "Orangine"  

I will post more about this product later, but for now this particular article is from 1927. As far as I know there is absolutely no connection between this headache powder and the Orangine beverages. 

Rochester, New York - 1927


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

As the last article indicated, Orangine Headache Powder originated in 1897. 

These first two ads are the earliest I can find for it ...

Lawrence, Kansas ~ 1900



De Moines, Iowa ~ 1900




And this is the latest/newest ad I can find ...

Kokomo, Indiana ~ 1950





Note:  There are literally hundreds of ads for Orangine Headache Powder between 1900 and 1950 - most of which are from Midwest states. But after 1950 it just disappears. Like I said earlier, there doesn't appear to be any connection between the headache powder and the beverage other than having the same name. However, the name itself could have been the subject of legal controversy, even though I have not seen anything to substantiate that yet. I probably won't dig into the headache powder version of "Orangine" any more than I already have unless something presents itself that I feel is significant to this discussion.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

By the way ...

The majority of the headache powder ads spell it "*Oragine*" but a few spell it "Orang*e*ine" with an additional 'e' but I believe those minority spellings are typos.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Which brings us to these ... 








(More about them later)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Regarding the Orangine brand from Ecuador South America ...

All I know about it is what I found on the following website and that it was first produced in *1900*. But other than that, I do not know if there is any relation between it and the brands produced in the United States. 

http://www.orangine.com.ec/#!about1/c1x1t

This is the Spanish to English translation of its history from their website...

In the year 1900, the brewery La Victoria in the Quebrada de Jerusalem, next to El Panecillo sector, became the home to a dream that was to become one of the most loved and remembered by the Ecuadorians brands over the years with "Orangine" being their favorite Orange and Blackberry products.

The company transformed both their external structures and interiors, making it one of the largest in the country. Currently, Orangine has gained an important place in the Ecuadorian market, always looking for diversification of products that satisfy our customers who have relied on us for generations and who prefer 100% Ecuadorian products.

I do not know the date for the bottle pictured in the ad, but suspect its from the 1950s or 1960s.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Reminder ...

The history trail for the Barq Brothers Orangine and the Schmidt & Company Orangine disappears around 1895. 

And now we see where it reappears again in Ecuador in 1900. This leads me to wonder if there was a connection between the Ecuadorian Orangine and the U.S. Orangine's?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And let's not forget about these bottles! What's the story on them? I haven't found a confirmed date for any of them but suspect the deco-style bottle is from the 1930s or 1940s and the acl bottles are from the 1950s or 1960s ...

Reminder: The deco bottle is embossed on the base with "Cascade Bottling - New Orleans, Louisiana" 



Reminder:  Although unconfirmed, one of these acl bottles was described as being marked with "Mobile, Alabama"


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Inconclusive Conclusion ...*


I've come to at least three forks in the road (or should I say three dead ends) and don't know which one to take. So rather than wandering around aimlessly, I've decided to head home with the hope that someday, someone will come along who will be able to fill in the gaps I can't seem to find about the various "Orangine" soft drinks. In the meantime, here's a brief timeline for some of what we do know ...

*1888* = Schmidt & Company - Stockton, California - Apply for "Orangine" trademark.

*1890* = Barq Brothers Bottling is established in New Orleans, Louisiana. 

*1893* = Marie Barq receives a gold medal for "Orangine" at the Chicago World's Fair.

*1898* = Barq's Root Beer / Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works established in Biloxi, Miss.

*1900* = "Orangine" Bottling established in Ecuador, South America. 




Note:  I might do some additional research on the "Orangine" acl bottles and see if I can determine exactly who produced them and when. But other than that, this pretty much concludes my contributions to this discussion. I hope they have been helpful and will eventually lead to solving what I consider a most interesting mystery. 

Signed ...

Sodapopbob


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

For future reference ...

Meet ...

*Walter Blackmore Starbird* ~ Schmidt & Co. Stockton, California

From an 1890 Illustrated History of San Joaquin County, California  ...

(Scroll back one page)

https://books.google.com/books?id=v...&q=Schmidt Bottle stockton california&f=false


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

New theory about the origin of ...  

BARQ'S ORANGINE

As this page from a 1950s Barq's booklet confirms, Edward Barq Sr. spent 13 years in Bordeaux, France "where he studied chemistry and the science and art of making flavoring extracts." 




As this newspaper article confirms, Edward Barq Sr. was born in New Orleans in 1871 ...



As the information on this link confirms, "about 1884, when Edward was thirteen, Maria Barq once again moved the family to France." (Which also includes some additional information)

https://books.google.com/books?id=k...onepage&q=Edward Barq Bordeaux france&f=false


Which brings us to this "Orangine" liqueur bottle made by Mispelblom Zutphen in the Netherlands. I do not know how old this particular bottle is, but I do know that Mispelblom Zutphen was established in 1770 and is still in business today. 



Here's a map showing Bordeaux, France in relation to the Netherlands, which is north of France ...



And here's my new theory ...

Because Edward Barq spent thirteen years in France studying chemistry and flavoring extracts, I'm inclined to believe that at some point he could very easily have encountered, and possibly even experimented with, the Orangine liqueur produced in the Netherlands. Of course this is pure speculation on my part, which is why I use the term "theory" because it goes hand in hand with the word "speculation." But regardless of that, the main thing I'm thinking at this juncture is that "Orangine" might have been a generic term used at the time, especially in Europe, just as the word "cola" became generic over the years in the United States and elsewhere. 

In other words ...

I'm inclined to suspect its highly possible that the Barq Brothers Orangine and the Schmidt & Company Orangine both have roots that originated in Europe, and possibly directly from the Mispelblom Zutphen brand of Orangine produced in the Netherlands. 

Please Note: This is just a "theory" of mine that obviously requires additional research to either confirm and/or refute!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

I forgot to mention that I'm trying to clarify what appear to be a discrepancy with the various uses of the word "thirteen." Its a little confusing whether Edward Barq was "thirteen" years old when he and his family moved back to Paris or whether he spent "thirteen" years there studying chemistry. Part of the confusion involves the start of the two different bottling works, with the Barq Brothers Bottling being in 1890 and Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works being in 1898. I don't think this is a big deal, but just thought I'd mention it!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This is from Edward Barq's 1943 obituary and is likely the best reference that explains the French connection and dates ...

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=11449898


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's an edited version of my Barq timeline, with the information obtained from the obituary in red ... 

Note: Some of the dates still don't jive, but I think this is as good as it gets and is close enough for Government work! 

1871 = Edward Barq Sr. born.

1873 = After father's death the family moved to France. Edward Sr. about 2 years old.

1878 = Family returned to the United States. Edward Sr. about 7 years old.

1883-84 ? = Family moved back to France. Edward Sr. about 12 or 13 years old. 

1888 = Schmidt & Company - Stockton, California - Applies for "Orangine" trademark. 

1890-93-94 ? = Family moved back to United States. Edward Sr. about 19 to 23 years old.

Note: Obituary says "23 years old"

1890-93-94 ? = Barq Brothers Bottling established in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Note: The main confusion regarding the various dates is that every historical account says Barq Brothers Bottling was established in 1890, which means Edward Sr. would have been about 19 or 20 years old at the time. But if he was 23 years old when he returned to the U.S. (as the 1943 obituary states), then the earliest date for Barq Brothers Bottling would have been in 1893 or 1894. ???    

1893 = Marie Barq receives a gold medal for "Orangine" at the Chicago World's Fair.

1898  = Barq's Root Beer / Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works established in Biloxi, Miss.

1900 = "Orangine" Bottling established in Ecuador, South America.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bass:

I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to toss this into the mix and see if it produces any results ... 

And if you do mind, I will cancel it!

It involves my apparent obsession and inability to find a single bottle, sign, card, etc. with "Barq Brothers Bottling" on it. And regardless if such an item dates 1890 to 1897, I will give the first person who finds something along those lines a free copy of Rick Sweeney's 2002 acl book (pictured below), which is currently valued at $60. All I ask is that the qualifying item not be a newspaper article or similar reference, but be an actual item such as those mentioned above, even if all you find is a picture of the item. And if the person who finds something happens to be one of the members who recently purchased one of the books from me, I will send them their money back. There's just gotta be "something" out there that was produced by the Barq Brothers, but I'll be danged if I can anything despite the numerous hours I have searched! 

Note: The free book offer will remain in effect until someone finds something or until December 31, 2016. In other words, whichever comes first. 

So there you have it - be the first to find a Barq Brothers item and you will not only establish soda pop history, but also receive a $60 book to-boot!

Signed ...

Sodapopbob


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

If anyone questions the *1890* references for *Barq Brothers Bottling Company*, just do a simple Google search and you will find more references than you can probably count! There are dozens if not hundreds of such references that can be found on Google!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

To reiterate and confirm ...

This is the earliest newspaper reference I can find for the Barq Brothers which confirms they were in operation in New Orleans, Louisiana at least as early as ...

*April 24, 1893*

Edward Barq was born on *March 4, 1871* and was *22 years old* when this article was published ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:


> And let's not forget about these bottles! What's the story on them? I haven't found a confirmed date for any of them but suspect the deco-style bottle is from the 1930s or 1940s and the acl bottles are from the 1950s or 1960s ...
> 
> Reminder: The deco bottle is embossed on the base with "Cascade Bottling - New Orleans, Louisiana"
> 
> View attachment 172215
> 
> Reminder:  Although unconfirmed, one of these acl bottles was described as being marked with "Mobile, Alabama"
> 
> View attachment 172214
> 
> View attachment 172216



Talk about "*Typos*" ...

When I found these acl bottles, both of them were described as "Orangine" bottles. But as it turns out they are ...

Orangico

... bottles from Pensacola, Florida and apparently have no connection whatsoever with Barq's. Now I can scratch them off my list as being related to the deco-style Orangine bottle that I'm certain is the real deal and was bottled by Cascade Bottling in New Orleans. 

Currently on eBay. Check it out!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/vintage-ORA...762c1a&pid=100013&rk=3&rkt=30&sd=291770221261


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

However ...

Even with that said, this bottle cap definitely says ...

"Orangine" 

... and no doubt was the one used on the deco-style bottle. So I guess I didn't strike out entirely!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Just for the record ...

Orangico bottle cap!




Which kind of, sort of, looks like an Orangine bottle cap. 

By the way, there are four Orangico bottles currently on eBay, one of which is an Owens-Illinois Duraglas made in 1954


----------



## CreekWalker

I like those caps! Keep the info coming. Great story here!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

CreekWalker

Thanks!

Here's some more of the story ...

Now I can search in earnest for another one of these Cascade Bottling Works deco-style Orangine bottles from New Orleans. It was made by Owens-Illinois, but I'm not certain if its a 1930s or 1940s bottle. My best guess is that its from the 1930s ...






Footnote:  In a way I'm glad the acl bottles turned out to be Orangico bottles and not Orangine bottles. I suspected they were from the 1950s or 1960s - and that bothered me because they just didn't fit into the scheme of things for early Barq's bottles. Whereas the deco-style Orangine bottle fits like a glove!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Does anyone see what I think I see - or am I just seeing things?

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-crown-top-orangine-bottle-1806036457


----------



## Mudbug

I can confirm, I do see it SODAPOPBOB and I also see that familiar Fleur de Lis, which in my mind, represents New Orleans,LA and would possibly indicate it was found in New Orleans,LA.,,,, land of Barq's Root Beer, "it has bite"......  

I'm not a member of Worth Point,so as far as I can go is to look and read the caption, no pricing or any other information.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Mudbug

The Orangine bottle sold for $15.50

Here's the link to the original eBay listing ...

(If necessary, scroll down)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Cro...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Well, it looks like I'm on the hunt again for an Orangine *ACL*

That is if Chris Weide's "ACL WANT LIST" is accurate. 

Scroll alphabetically to ...

http://www.ca-yd.com/textfile/bottles/WANTLIST.HTM

ORANGINE - NEW ORLEANS, LA  - CLEAR - 12 - GREEN/WHITE - "NEW ORLEANS" - "GOLD MEDAL"

Notice he list an ORANGICO ACL just above the ORANGINE ACL - Both of which are green and white.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

The more I look around the more references I see for "Orangine" from the 1800s. And it wasn't just sold in California and Nevada. It was also sold in ...

*Globe, Arizona - 1890*

Notice it mentions by the glass, bottle, dozen or barrel



I did some brief research on C. E. Taylor and discovered he had a general merchandise store and soda fountain. The 1890 population of Globe was 803 residents. I'm not sure who's brand of Orangine he sold, but suspect it was that of Schmidt & Company from Stockton, California because of the date and the use of the word "tonic"    

Here's a picture of Globe, Arizona - Circa 1910


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Question ...

How the heck did Orangine end up in a small mining town like Globe, Arizona?

Note: I don't know the answer but if it was sold in a place as remote as Globe, Arizona, then I have to believe it could have been sold almost anywhere!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I guess all I can say about the various "Orangine" beverages is this ...

1. Schmidt & Company applied for an "Orangine" trademark in 1888 - which was at least two years before Barq Brothers Bottling was established - providing they were established that early, which is questionable.   

2. Schmidt & Company was definitely selling an "Orangine Tonic Beverage" in numerous locals in 1890, including in California, Nevada, and possibly Arizona.

3. The earliest confirmed reference I can find that connects "Orangine" with Barq Brothers Bottling is 1893.


----------



## Mudbug

Thanks SODAPOPBOB, interesting, even with a good sized lip chip on it.....


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I have been searching New Orleans directories and the earliest listing for Barq Brothers is 1894. They are not in the 1890 through 1893 directories. When we couple this with the 1893 newspaper article I posted, it appears the Barqs did not return from France until 1893 at the earliest. But even more interesting than that, the 1894 directory list them as "*cordial*" manufactures. As we know, cordials are a form of sweet liqueurs. Now I'm wondering if the Barq's first business ventures in New Orleans primarily involved the bottling of cordials and not soda pop? I'm also wondering if Orangine was some type of carbonated/sparkling liqueur and not necessarily a true soda pop? I guess I'll have to think about that question for a while and try and answer it later. In the meantime, here's the listing from a ...

*1894 New Orleans, Louisiana Directory*

Notice the 547 Royal Street address - which we discussed earlier


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

I'm not sure where hundreds of references came up with the claims that state the Barq's Brothers Bottling Company was established in New Orleans in 1890, but I'm challenging those claims because I'm currently of the opinion that it wasn't established until 1893 at the earliest. I will stand corrected if/when my observation is proven to the contrary.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Food for thought ...

*Orangine Liqueur ~ Belgium*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Of all the brief histories I've read about Barq's, this is my current favorite. I especially like where it says ...

1. "About" 1890  
     (Allows leeway with date)

2. "Edward Barq formulated an orange drink, called Orangine"   
     (Says "orange drink" and not "soft drink")



http://20thcenturyfamous.blogspot.com/2014/01/edward-charles-edmond-barq-inventor-of.html


Edward Charles Edmond Barq – the inventor of Barq’s drink:

He was born in the French Quarter of New Orleans on March 4, 1871. His mother was listed as Maria Gevrgina Savonniere, born in Paris in 1842 and his father was Jules Auguste Barq.

His father was an attorney who processed Civil War claims, and his mother was a piano teacher. Edward Barq was one of four children, with the others being Gaston, Eugenie and Jules.

His father died when Edward was two and the family returned to France in 1884.

In France, Edward and his brother Gaston began to study sugar chemistry at the University of Paris. He was interested in the science and art of flavor chemistry.

About 1890, Gaston and Edward returned to New Orleans, where they opened Barq’s Brothers Bottling Company. The brothers bottled carbonated water and created soft drinks of various flavors including its own formulated citrus-flavored drinks.

Edward Barq formulated an orange drink, called Orangine, which won a gold medal at the 1893 World’s Fair in Chicago.

It was Edward’s invention of root beer with its own distinct flavor that brought him success. In 1898, his company began manufacturing root beer.

His soft drinks gained popularity during the temperance movement of the later nineteenth society and claimed to have health-giving properties.

By 1902, he changed of the company to Barq’s Bottling Works. He had 62 bottling plants in 22 states, mainly in the south.

Edward Charles Edmond Barq died in New Orleans in 1943 at the age of 72.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Footnote:

I'm not saying Orangine wasn't a soft drink. I'm just suggesting that it might have started out as some type of cordial that eventually "developed" into a soft drink. The same applies to the Schmidt & Company version of Orangine. I don't normally associate the word "tonic" with a typical soft drink. Plus, there seems to be increasing evidence to suggest that "Orangine" type beverages might have originated in Europe.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

In search of ...


----------



## Mudbug

SODAPOPBOB said:


> Footnote:
> 
> I'm not saying Orangine wasn't a soft drink. I'm just suggesting that it might have started out as some type of cordial that eventually "developed" into a soft drink. The same applies to the Schmidt & Company version of Orangine. I don't normally associate the word "tonic" with a typical soft drink. Plus, there seems to be increasing evidence to suggest that "Orangine" type beverages might have originated in Europe.



I don't know if you've seen this,but,here's a recent ad describing orangine as an orange liqueur and cocoa eau-de-vie(translates to brandy or spirits):

http://www.distilleriedebiercee.be/en/our-product-range/eaux-de-vie/orangine/


----------



## Bass Assassin

Did the Orangine made by Schmidt out in CA contain alcohol and was basically a tonic? If so, maybe Barq's took the same drink and turned it into a soda by removing the alcohol. Just throwing stuff against the wall to see if it sticks. I'm starting to believe Barq's "stole" the Orangine drink from Schmidt. But if so, why wasn't there a lawsuit?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bass

I haven't seen anything to indicate that Orangine contained alcohol, nor anything about trademark infringement lawsuits, but notice in this article where it includes the Schmidt & Company Orangine with various other alcoholic beverages. Thyes was the sole agent for Orangine in Reno, Nevada who, according to the article, apparently owned a bar where he served it. I realize this doesn't mean Orangine contained alcohol, because the article also mentions sarsaparilla and iron water, but I do think its interesting that Orangine was lumped together with what appears to be an advertisement for a bar. 

Reno, Nevada ~ 1891


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And there's this that I posted earlier ...

It involves the Barq & Hughes "*cordial factory*" liquidation on Larharpe Street in New Orleans. You will recall this was where Edward Barq and his family were located just prior to moving to Biloxi, Mississippi. I don't see a single thing in the article to indicate they produced soft drinks. But it does mention "3 stills" 

New Orleans  ~  1896


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

There's also this 1889 "Areated *Tonic* Beverage" patent from earlier ...

Walter Starbird was a partner with Clara Schmidt of "Schmidt & Company"  

Notice on line 30 where it says ...

" ... a half gallon each of alcohol and water ..."

I'm not sure about he "leached off" part, but it appears to me that "tonic" beverages, such as their "Orangine Tonic Beverage", did include some measure of alcohol. 












SODAPOPBOB said:


> 1888-1889 U.S. Patent for ...
> 
> *Aerated Tonic Beverage*
> 
> By ...
> 
> *Walter B. Starbird  ~  Stockton, California*
> 
> 
> Note: The ingredients sound more like the Schmidt & Company's "Iron Water" than it does for their "Orangine." Notice it contained alcohol.
> 
> http://www.google.com/patents/US396440
> 
> View attachment 172135


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

However ...

Also notice on line 52 of the patent where it says ...

" ...may be taken by adults *and children* ..."

?????????????????????????????????????????


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

As crazy as this sounds, the earliest official doc-u-mentation I can find where it uses the word "Bottler" in connection with the Barq's is found in this Biloxi, Mississippi U.S. Census for the year ... 


1900


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I touched on this earlier but wanted to reemphasize it ...

Its primarily about the suicide death of Jules Barq in 1896 - but notice where I underlined ...

"*manufacturer of cordials*"

So here again we have a connection between the Barq's and cordials but no mention of soft drinks!

New Orleans, Louisiana - December 14, 1896


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I may never be able to prove it with 100% confirmation, but I'm strongly leaning toward the possibility that ...

1. When the Barq's returned from France to New Orleans they engaged in the manufacturer of cordial liqueurs and not soft drinks. 

2. The Barq's earliest venture involving the bottling and sale of soft drinks was when they moved to Biloxi, Mississippi in 1897-98


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Check this out ...

Its basically a letter to the editor about some lady who was visiting New Orleans in 1894 and who had also attended the Chicago World's fair where she had tried Marie Barq's Orangine. 

Notice where the lady says ... 

"I have asked for it at almost every confectioner's shop in the city" 

It sounds as if no one in New Orleans had heard of Orangine at the time - at least none of the soda fountains she visited where she inquired about it. And if it wasn't available at confectioner's shops in the city, then where was it available?

New Orleans Newspaper - 1894


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This is the only reference I can find that describes the taste of Orangine that was sold at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair. 

From ...

Abbeville, Louisiana - August 5, 1893  (Abbeville is about 150 miles west of New Orleans)



Notice where it says ...

1. "Carbonated"

2. "Not overdry champagne in taste" 

3. Near the bottom of the article it also says "cool and sparkling"





Footnote:  The Chicago World's Fair ran from May 1, 1893 to October 30, 1893


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Question(s) of the day ...

Was Barq's Orangine, that was sold at the 1893 Chicago World's Fair ...

1. A carbonated/sparkling champagne-like drink that contained alcohol? 

2. A carbonated/sparkling champagne-like drink that did not contain alcohol? 

3. A carbonated orange flavored soda pop?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Before attempting to answer the above question(s), please consider this first. It might also answer the question that was asked by the lady who visited every soda fountain in New Orleans and wondered where Orangine could be found ...

1896 - New Orleans


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bars


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Just for the record ...


----------



## Bass Assassin

Orangine, a gold medal winner in 1893, and bankrupt in 1896. How can that be. Welcome to Louisiana guys and gals. im starting to wonder if this Barq's Orangine was a scam.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bass Assassin said:


> Orangine, a gold medal winner in 1893, and bankrupt in 1896.



*That seems to be what occurred ...*


But on the other hand, you gotta wonder about the deco Orangine bottle produced by the Cascade Bottling Works in New Orleans that was owned and operated by Edward Barq's illegitimate son, Jesse Robinson. I wonder what the story is on that?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

And why, after hours of searching, can I only find one example of the Orangine deco bottle, which is the one that sold on eBay and described as a "dug" bottle? Where are the other examples? I'd sure like to have one of them bottles - it just might be the rarest Barq-related bottle in existence!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Speaking of Jesse Robinson ...

I'll have more later, but for the moment I can tell you ...

1. He was born in Mississippi in 1889 
(But I don't know where in Mississippi)

2. He "worked" in a pop factory in New Orleans in 1920. 
(But I don't know whose pop factory - The Barq's were already in Biloxi)

3. He was a bottling plant "proprietor" in New Orleans in 1930

4. He was a bottling plant "proprietor" in New Orleans in 1940

5. He died in 1949


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

When Jesse Robinson was born, his father, Edward Barq, was only 18 years old!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. - P.S.

Edward Barq's first and only marriage was to Elodie Graugnard - They were married in New Orleans in 1898 - Edward was 27 years old at the time


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

This is the earliest New Orleans directory listing I can find where it list Jesse Robinson as an independent bottler and not working for someone else in that field ...

1921




This is the earliest New Orleans directory listing I can find where it list Jesse Robinson as the proprietor of Cascade Bottling Works. As we know, Jesse received a Barq's Root Beer franchise from Edward Barq in 1934. This was six years before that. 



1928

Note: The reason you don't see the name Robinson is because it was listed under a long list of other Robinsons in New Orleans - and then alphabetized by first name. 




Note:  I'm not sure if Jesse Robinson started Cascade Bottling Works or bought it from someone else. All I know is that there wasn't a bottling plant listed under that name in the 1921 directory.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I also found this paper label but do not know the date ...


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

And here's what *819 St. Louis Street* looks like today - which is the address from the 1921 directory ...

Note: I haven't found an address for Cascade Bottling Works. I believe the address in the 1928 directory was his residence. 

(Red building in the center)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Commentary ...

I think its interesting that what I sometimes think an early 1900s bottling plant should look like is often dramatically different than what they turn out to be in reality. Such as the one I just posted - it looks more like a brothel or something along those lines than it does a bottling operation. The same is true regarding the operation itself. Take for example the following pictures - all three are early 1900s Mom & Pop bottling plants. Early bottling operations weren't always as romantic as I sometimes think they were ...

I don't know the locations or exact dates for any of these bottling works, but its possible that Cascade Bottling Works had similar facilities.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I did a quick search for Cascade Bottling Works New Orleans Louisiana and every result I found showed the same address of ...

*326 N Lopez St*

In fact, that same address for Cascade Bottling is listed as early as 1923 and as late as 1942!

Are you ready for this? 

Here's what the building looks like today ...




By the way, I have searched the address on map websites where they have old aerial views,  and the same row of buildings were there in the 1960s. I don't know if the same buildings were there in the 1920s and 1940s, but I suspect they were.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Which brings us to this ...

"Robinson got into the beverage business almost by accident, reportedly winning the Cascade Water Bottling Co. of New Orleans in a poker game on a Mississippi River boat in the 1920s."


http://www.law360.com/articles/193782/barq-s-heirs-want-stake-in-root-beer-co-from-coke


By the way, I don't make this stuff up - I just find it and post it and go from there!


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Here's the complete article in case the link doesn't work for you ...

Barq's Heirs Want Stake In Root Beer Co. From Coke


By Evan Weinberger

Law360, New York (September 15, 2010, 7:32 PM ET) -- The Coca-Cola Co. is facing a lawsuit from heirs of the "illegitimate" son of the founder of Barq's Inc., who claim they still own a one-third interest in the root beer maker and want either the return of the interest or compensation.

 The estate of Arthur Robinson — son of Jasper Louis, or Jesse, Robinson — is entitled to a one-third interest in Barq's, according to a complaint filed Tuesday in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana. The claims stem from a 1934 agreement between Edward Charles Edmond Barq Sr., the company's founder, and Jesse Robinson, his son born out of wedlock. 

 Coca-Cola purchased New Orleans-based Barq's in 1995 for nearly $92 million, the complaint says. 

 The long history in this case stretches back to the late 1890s, when Edward Barq Sr. formed Barq Brothers Bottling Co. in New Orleans, the complaint says. 

 In 1897, Edward Barq moved to Biloxi, Miss., with his wife and founded the Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works. While in Biloxi, Barq fathered Jesse Robinson out of wedlock, the complaint says. 

 Barq's wife allowed him to bring Robinson into the family home but blocked his attempts to formally adopt his son, the complaint says. 

 Robinson got into the beverage business almost by accident, reportedly winning the Cascade Water Bottling Co. of New Orleans in a poker game on a Mississippi River boat in the 1920s, the complaint says. 

 Barq encouraged Robinson to transform his plant into a Barq's production facility soon after, where he became instrumental in distributing Barq's root beer and other beverages throughout Louisiana, the complaint says. 

 In 1934, Barq gave Robinson exclusive rights to use the family formula for soft drinks, including root beer, in all of Louisiana except Washington Parish, as well as the name Barq's, according to the complaint. 

 Robinson refined the formula for Barq's root beer such that there was a distinct difference between what was sold in Mississippi and what was sold in Louisiana, the complaint says. In 1946, Robinson formed Barq’s Beverages Inc. to exercise his rights in Louisiana. 

 After Robinson died in 1949, he passed along one half of his company, which held the franchise for Barq's root beer in most of Louisiana, to his wife Marie Vicknair Robinson, with the remaining half divided evenly among his three children, Arthur, Betty and Yula, the complaint says. 

 When Marie Robinson died in 1979, her half of the property was divided evenly among the three children, according to the complaint. 

 Arthur Robinson, whose three children launched the suit, became president of Barq's Beverages and he refined the formula for the company's famous root beer, the complaint says. But in 1970, his mother suffered a stroke, and Arthur Robinson was forced to sell his interest in the company to his sisters, who had barred him from entering the factory with police backing and no apparent reason, according to the complaint. 

 The sale of Arthur Robinson's interest in Barq's, through a series of transactions, are null under Louisiana law, the complaint says, meaning he and his heirs are still entitled to now a one-third interest in the company. 

 Two New Orleans attorneys purchased the Mississippi branch of Barq's in 1976 and in 1988 bought Barq's Beverages for nearly $5 million after losing a copyright lawsuit to the Robinson family's company, the complaint says. 

 The unified company adopted the Louisiana root beer formula developed by Arthur Robinson as the one used for production, the complaint says. 

 Arthur Robinson died in 1996. 

 It is unclear from the complaint whether Arthur Robinson's estate is pursuing one-third of the unified Barq's or one-third of Barq's Beverages, but the difference could mean a steep price for Coca-Cola. 

 Counsel for both the Robinson estate and Coca-Cola could not be reached for comment. 

 The Robinson estate is represented by The Kramer Law Firm. 

 No counsel information was immediately available for Coca-Cola. 

 The case is Robinson v. Coca-Cola Co., case number 10-cv-03060, in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Louisiana.


----------



## andy volkerts

SODAPOPBOB said:


> Commentary ...
> 
> I think its interesting that what I sometimes think an early 1900s bottling plant should look like is often dramatically different than what they turn out to be in reality. Such as the one I just posted - it looks more like a brothel or something along those lines than it does a bottling operation. The same is true regarding the operation itself. Take for example the following pictures - all three are early 1900s Mom & Pop bottling plants. Early bottling operations weren't always as romantic as I sometimes think they were ...
> 
> I don't know the locations or exact dates for any of these bottling works, but its possible that Cascade Bottling Works had similar facilities.
> 
> View attachment 172329
> 
> View attachment 172330
> 
> View attachment 172331



And that doesn't even count the romantic aspects of child labor, or maybe slavery would be a better choice of words, kinda like the factories in china are run now. Great Pics by the way........Andy


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## SODAPOPBOB

Speaking of child labor in the bottling industry, it was even more prevalent in glass factories than it was in small, family owned bottling operations. Take the following for example ...

This circa 1908 image was taken at the Seneca Glass Works in Morgantown, WV. and shows a gaffer (with the blowpipe) at work with his "mold tender" boy (seated). The mold boy would open and close the mold (at the base of the pipe behind the wash tub) as directed by the gaffer. In front of the gaffer in this image (to his right) is the chair where much work was done with blowpipe manipulation prior to lowering the parison into the mold. A second boy looks on with (possible) admiration of the gaffer as they were the highest paid and most elite workers on the glass factory floor and among the highest paid of all skilled laborers during the 19th century. It was also the position that glass factory boys aspired towards. Directly in front of the standing boy is most likely the marver - a flat table used for parison manipulation. The caption to the photo is: "Blower and Mold Boy, Seneca Glass Works, Morgantown, W. Va. Location: Morgantown, West Virginia." (Lewis Hine photo, Library of Congress).


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's a similar photo ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

Speaking of family operated bottling operations ...

Digging for bottles around this Buckman Springs lithia water bottling plant is what got me interested in bottle collecting about 40 years ago. Most of the bottles I found over the years were either chipped or broken, but I still considered them keepers because of their rarity. 

This is what the place looked like around the turn of the century ... 






And here is all that is left of the place today ... 




And here's one of the very few intact bottles I found - but this is a later one from around 1910-15




By the way, I buried a stash of these bottles (chipped examples) in a place near the old bottling plant that no one but me knows the location of, and in a spot that no one is likely to ever dig. I think of it as my personal little treasure trove that will likely still be there a hundred years from now. I put a sealed note in one of the bottles just in case anyone ever does find them.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

If future treasure hunters want to attempt to find my buried stash of bottles, this is the only clue to its location that I ever intend to share ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

Back to the History Channel!

Speaking of treasure maps ...

According to Ancestry.com, Edward Barq's illegitimate son, Jasper "Jesse" Robinson, was born in ...

Choctaw, Mississippi






(To be continued)


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## SODAPOPBOB

I don't plan to do a complete ancestry on Jesse Robinson, but there is one aspect of his life I'd like to do a little focus on - it involves the 1900-1910-1920 and 1930 U.S. Census records. Every one of those four census' show his *father* as being born in *Ireland*. And yet, we know that Jesse's birth father was Edward Barq who was born in New Orleans, Louisiana in 1871. Based on what I know about census records, the information is usually obtained from the head of household who either gave it directly to the census recorder or else mailed it in. Okay, fine! So why does this *1930* census record for Jesse show his father as being born in Ireland? Jesse was about 41 years old in 1930 and surely must have known who his true father was by then. And lets not forget the accounts about Jesse being "raised" by the Barq's but was never adopted by them, hence his keeping the last name of "Robinson." I realize this is a minor point, but it just seems weird to me that Jesse's lineage appears to have been so secretive and mysterious. And if you think that's weird, the 1900 and 1910 census list Jesse's parents as Charles D. Robinson and Susan M. Robinson. It was Charles D. Robinson who was born in Ireland and not Edward Barq! 

Here's the complete 1930 Census for Jesse - New Orleans, Louisiana



And here's Jesse's specifics ...

Notice:

1. 326 N Lopez Street
2. Father's birth place "Irish Free State"
3. Proprietor Bottling Plant




And here's a close up of the "Irish Free State" where his father was born


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## SODAPOPBOB

Minor Correction / Clarification ... 

I did some double checking and discovered that Jesse Robinson was born in *Reform, Mississippi* which is in Choctaw County, Mississippi. Earlier I said he was born in Choctaw but didn't realize it was a county. 

We will probably never know the whole story about his being raised by the Barq's, but according to his 1917 draft card, when he was 27 years old, he was living in Reform, Louisiana, (Choctaw County) and involved in farming. It wasn't long after this that he returned to New Orleans and became a bottler. Anyhoo, trying to make sense of his entire life timeline is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, so I'll just leave it here and let future researchers put the rest of the pieces of the puzzle together. 

1917 Draft Card


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

*Back to Bottles ...*

Questions:  

1. Why does this Barq's bottle have an orange on the label? 
2. Would they produce a bottle like this just for an orange flavored soda?
3. Did they also produce bottles with a lemon, strawberry, grape, etc. on the label for those flavors?


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Hey, look at what I just found ...

1.  Jesse L Robinson

2. Registered: September 16, *1924*

3. Renewed:   September 16, *1944*

4. New Orleans, Louisiana


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## SODAPOPBOB

:fireworks:1924


----------



## Bass Assassin

Great question Bob. 
Many mysteries abound in the search for Barq's history. I don't know if it was just really bad record keeping or maybe some things were kept hush hush for so long that the truths are now like muddied water. 
Here's what I do know about south Louisiana. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line between Alexandria and Lafayette. The good folks to the south of that line are independent and a little on the stubborn side. They will give you the shirt off their back but don't dare try to order them around. I've had many good friends from Acadiana (south central area of LA) and they are some of the most generous people in the world. The folks in the New Orleans area are a different group of people. They are living in a different world than the rest of the state.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Bass

Thanks!

Interesting info about Louisiana - The only time I was there I was driving straight through to Florida in 1971 - I don't remember much about it except a lot of weird looking trees! But that was in the early 1970s and a lot of things looked weird back then! But then again, maybe it was just me!  


More Questions ...

Are these the same bottles?

1. Yes?
2. No?
3. Maybe?   (Possible Variation) 




*1923*


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## SODAPOPBOB

*More Barq's Bottles ...*


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## SODAPOPBOB

Last but not least ...


*The Fearsome Foursome*

(With the Coca Cola script bottle being the rarest and most valuable of the lot)


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## SODAPOPBOB

Oops! I almost forgot this gem ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

I'm finding examples of this bottle and most descriptions say they are from St. Paul, Minnesota and made by Owens-Illinois in 1956. There are none on eBay right now but I'm going to look around and see if I can find one elsewhere ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's one of the descriptions ...


This is a Very Unusual Barq's Soda Bottle. Most Likely this did Not have Root Beer in it and was a Barq's Beverage or Flavor Soda. It has an Image of a Cross-Section of a Sliced Citrus Fruit---maybe an Orange. It has Mostly White Paint with Blue. It reads: BARQ'S---TRADE MARK REG. on one side and: BARQ BOTTLING CO.---MINNEAPOLIS & ST. PAUL, MINN.---CONTENTS 7 FL. OZS. It also has a Circle with BARQ'S 3 Times on Shoulders. This bottle was made by the Owens-Illinois Glass Company and dated 1956.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another description ...

Note: The seller uses the words "Fruit Slice" bottle as if its a well known term, which it might be in Minnesota, but I've never heard that term nor ever seen one of the bottles until now. Based on the references I've seen, they typically sell between $30 and $50. I wonder who bottled the one from Baton Rouge, Louisiana?

This is what's known to collectors as the "fruit slice" bottle. There are three different versions. One 7 oz from Baton Rouge, LA with Barq's in red, and a 7oz and 10 oz from Minneapolis St. Paul, MN in blue lettering. Up for sale is the 7oz blue version from Minneapolis St. Paul. The bottle does not say Minneapolis St. Paul but that is where it is from, only the 10oz has the town and state on it. Bottle is dated 1960. Bottle has wear and staining to the ACL label. I've seen quite a few of the 10oz versions but only a couple of the 7oz version. The Baton Rouge version is just as rare with only two known. The fruit slice bottles held Barq's other flavors while the diamond design, blue labeled bottle, was used for Root Beer.


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## SODAPOPBOB

The Plot Thickens ...

I really like where the last seller said ...

1. One 7 oz. from Baton Rouge, LA with Barq's in *red*.
2. The Baton Rouge version is just as rare with *only two known*.

As it turns out, the Barq's bottling operation in Baton Rouge was part of Jesse Robinson's territory that was granted to him when he and Edward Barq signed an agreement in 1934. And even though Jesse Robinson died in 1949, and the "Orange Slice" acls I've seen references for date between 1956 and 1960, Jesse's heirs still held the Baton Rouge territory in the 1950s and 1960s. But what I don't know, and hope to find out, is where the "Orange Slice" acl originated. Was it in Minnesota or in Baton Rouge?  

I don't know very much about the Baton Rouge operation yet, but I did discover that their address was ...

*4912 North Street
Baton Rouge, La.* 

This newspaper article is from 1979 and briefly discusses Jesse Robinson's Baton Rouge territory ...


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

Notice in the 1979 article where it says ...

"*They don't use ... our graphics*"

I wonder if the "Orange Slice" acl was an example of them not using the standard Barq's graphics?


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## SODAPOPBOB

Next Question ...

I wonder who had the St. Paul, Minnesota  Barq's territory in the 1950s and 1960s? Was it the Barq heirs or the Robinson heirs?

If it was the Barq heirs, it doesn't seem likely they would allow a non standard bottle. But if it was the Robinson heirs, well, that's a horse and a bottle of a different color!


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## SODAPOPBOB

My initial findings indicate it was the *Pepsi Cola* bottling plant that bottled Barq's in St. Paul, Minnesota in the 1950s and 1960s. But I don't know if they were under the parent umbrella of the Biloxi Barq's or the Louisiana Barg's.


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

For the time being I am calling into question where the seller in post #224 said ...

*The bottle does not say Minneapolis St. Paul but that is where it is from*

If not marked as such, how does he know his bottle was from Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota?


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. - P.S.

Its a little confusing but where he says ...

*only the 10oz has the town and state on it*

... apparently means the 10 ounce bottle has Minneapolis/St. Paul on it but the 7 ounce bottle doesn't. Which, if correct, indicates there is definitely a 10 ounce "Orange Slice" acl from Minneapolis/St. Paul


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## SODAPOPBOB

I haven't been able to find one of the Barq's "Orange Slice" bottles from Baton Rouge, and possibly never will if its true there are only two known examples, but I did find some other stuff that might help in the search. For starters, the following are the Louisiana territories held by Barq's Beverages, which were the territories originally granted to Jesse Robinson and later held by his heirs ...

Baton Rouge Territory 

The geographic area of competition for Barq's Beverages of Baton Rouge as the Baton Rouge metropolitan area including the surrounding parishes of Tangipahoa, St. Helena, Livingston, East Feliciana, West Feliciana, Pointe Coupee, Avoyelles, Iberville, West Baton Rouge, East Baton Rouge, Ascension, St. James, Assumption and part of Lafourche. 

New Orleans Territory 

The geographic area of effective competition for Barq's New Orleans as the New Orleans metropolitan area including the Parishes of Orleans, Jefferson, St. Bernard, Plaquemines, St. Charles, St. John and St. Tammany.


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## SODAPOPBOB

And here's the old Barq's bottling plant located at ...

*Barq's Beverages
535 North 49th Street
Baton Rouge, Louisiana*






Notice the rusted Barq's signs in the windows.




Note:  I'm not sure when they first used this building, nor when they abandoned it, but as near as I can determine it was their location at least from sometime in the 1940s to sometime in the 1970s, and possibly 1980s.


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## SODAPOPBOB

Back to St. Paul, Minnesota ...

Both of these snippets are from the same *1949* Minnesota publication. Notice it shows Barq's Bottling and Pepsi Cola Bottling at the same address and H. C. Costello as the manager ...

*1340 University Avenue*

Barq's



Pepsi Cola



This picture is of the bottling plant from a 1950s Barq's pamphlet I have.



And here's the front/back cover of the 20 page Barq's pamphlet




(To be continued)


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## SODAPOPBOB

Reminder:  The Coca Cola Company did not purchase Barq's until *1995*. So any lawsuits and/or feuds involving Barq's prior to 1995 did not involve the Coca Cola Company.

Note:

1. Barq's Beverages Inc. was the Louisiana branch of Barq's established by Jesse Robinson.
2. Barq's Inc. was the branch of Barq's established by Edward Barq after he moved to Biloxi. 

Notice in this *1983* article where it says (in part) ...

[Barq's Beverages Inc.] "*used labels ... different from those of Barq's Inc.*"




(To be continued)


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## SODAPOPBOB

*To the best of my knowledge ...*

1. Barq's Beverages Inc. / Jesse Robinson's territory was isolated to Louisiana only and not allowed in any other states.

2. If the St. Paul, Minnesota territory was under the umbrella of "Barq's Inc." (which apparently it was because it says as much in the 1950s pamphlet I posted) then I am inclined to believe there is no way that "Barq's Inc." would allow the St. Paul branch to produce and distribute a non-standard bottle like the "Orange Slice" bottle. And yet, St. Paul obviously did produce such a bottle as the examples of those bottles support.

Question: 

If "Barq's Inc." was so adamant about all of their bottles being of the standard type, then how did it occur that the St. Paul branch produced a non-standard bottle such as the "Orange Slice" bottle?

(To be continued)


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Another Reminder ...

Barq's bottles such as those pictured here were used for various "fruit flavors" and not necessarily for root beer. The flavor was indicated on the caps that went on these bottles. Hence, no apparent reason for a different type of "fruit flavor" bottle such as the "orange slice" bottle!


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## SODAPOPBOB

By searching out various Barq's bottle caps, I have been able to confirm the following flavors ...

1. Black Cherry
2. Cherry
3. Club Soda
4. Cola
5. Cream Soda
6. Fruit Punch
7. Lemon
8. Lemon Lime
9. Orange
10. Orangeade
11. Pineapple
12. Root Beer

(And there could very well be a few more flavors that I'm not aware of)


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## SODAPOPBOB

All three of these bottle caps are described as being marked on the edge with St. Paul, Minnesota ...

http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/barqs-used-cork-bottle-caps-crowns-6-sets-of-3



(And searching for other examples from St. Paul)


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## SODAPOPBOB

In search of ..

*Any* Barq's bottle (standard and/or non-standard) from St. Paul, Minnesota


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

The plot thickens even more ...

Notice ...

1. This cap has St. Paul, Minn. on the top
2. It also has "Twin City Bottling Company" on it but no mention of Pepsi Cola



(To be continued)


----------



## Bass Assassin

Have you seen any caps from LA or MS from the same time period as the one above? I wonder do they look the same


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Bass

The majority of the Barq's bottles and bottle caps I've seen are either not marked with a location and/or not described thoroughly enough to know where they are from or when they were made. Not to mention there are so many variations that it would take an advanced Barq's collector to make sense of them. 

Here are the only Barq's caps I have been able to find that are from Louisiana. And the only reason I know that is because they have a Louisiana tax symbol on them. But I do not know where in Louisiana they're from or when they were made. Nor do I know if all of the Louisiana caps have the tax symbol or just some of them. 

Barq's Root Beer




Barq's Sr



This next cap was described as being from Biloxi, Mississippi, but I only have the description to go by and no picture of the edge markings or other confirmation.



Here's the cap from St. Paul, Minn. for comparison.





As crazy as it sounds, this is the only picture of a Baton Rouge, Louisiana bottle I have been able to find that included a picture of the back. And this particular example was described as being embossed on the base with ...

LG 68 917 2

Which I'm confident is for Laurens Glass 1968





I also found this Baton Rouge ashtray, but I cannot make out what type of bottle it depicts. 




Remember what I said earlier about "Biloxi Blues" and "Louisiana Reds" ... That seems to hold true in these example but I do not know how consistent it is throughout the years.


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

One possible way to approximately date the various bottle caps is to determine when the slogan "Its Good And Wholesome" was used versus the slogan "Its Good"


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Back to Cascade Bottling Works (New Orleans) for a moment ...

I came across this ad but the description did not include a date. Look close and you will see several Barq's bottles. Based on the advanced machinery it depicts I'm assuming its a later picture. I'm not sure who the man is, but if its Jesse Robinson, remember that he died in 1949. 



For comparison, here's the only picture I have been able to find of Jesse Robinson - which is from 1922


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S. 

I tried to enlarge the Cascade Bottling Works picture so as to read the small print, but I was unable to. It would be interesting to know what it says.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I contacted the eBay seller about this "red label" Barq's bottle but he said it did not have a city or state on it. I forgot to ask him about a makers mark or date code, but intend to do that shortly ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/18213743930...1a601d1f846&bu=43523291394&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu


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## SODAPOPBOB

Here's another "red label" bottle currently on eBay. No city and state, but the base code appears to be LGW 73 for Laurens Glass Works 1973 ...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Bar...2b006df&pid=100005&rk=1&rkt=6&sd=182137439306


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## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

Jesse Robinson was involved with Cascade Bottling Works in New Orleans at least as early as 1921, which was 13 years before he and Edward Barq made the franchise agreement that granted Jesse the Louisiana territories in 1934. Speaking of which, I have either forgotten or haven't established yet exactly who distributed Barq's soft drinks in Louisiana between 1900 and 1934. I'm assuming it was Edward Barq's "Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works" but I'm not certain. The only Cascade Bottling Works bottles I can recall are Orangine, Big V Five, and the Celery paper label. I guess I'll have to take another look at things and see if I missed any Cascade Bottling Works brands I have forgotten about.


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## SODAPOPBOB

SODAPOPBOB said:


> I contacted the eBay seller about this "red label" Barq's bottle but he said it did not have a city or state on it. I forgot to ask him about a makers mark or date code, but intend to do that shortly ...
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/18213743930...1a601d1f846&bu=43523291394&cp=1&sojTags=bu=bu




I got a speedy reply from this eBay seller and he said the base markings are ...

*B 5B25 
5 (9) A 75*

I'm thinking it might be a slight misread for an Owen-Illinois bottle but appears to be from 1975 regardless of who made it.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Regarding the earliest Barq's *ACLs* ...

The earliest I'm aware of are ...

McKinney, Texas ~ 1939



Phoenix, Arizona ~ 1939



Greenville, Mississippi ~ 1939 




No doubt there are other locals, but these three are consistent with the 1939 date. I have not found an acl ad from 1938 or earlier - the earlier ads all depict the patent 1935 embossed bottle.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

Check out this blue-label Barq's acl bottle that sold on eBay* four days ago for ...

$255

I put an * on eBay* because it appears to be a foreign listing? The bottle is from Tulsa, Oklahoma and described as 1939? 

https://translate.googleusercontent...712670&usg=ALkJrhgTnIONRmYYOvpNj7njM_HNulb6bg


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

P.S.

As near as I can determine the eBay listing appears to be *Italian*


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

All things considered ...

There are six Barq's and Barq's-Related bottles I'd like to acquire ...

1. Orangine ~ Cascade Bottling Works (Jesse Robinson) ~ New Orleans, Louisiana

Note: I consider this Orangine bottle the Holy Grail of the Barq-related bottles and would prefer it over any of the others. 



Possible 1937



Notice the cap has the Louisiana tax symbol



2. Barq's Root Beer ~ Biloxi Artesian Bottling Works ~ First issue 1935 Patent bottle





3. Barq's ~ Orange Slice ~ Baton Rouge, Louisiana ~ The Red version of this one from St. Paul, Minnesota



4. & 5.  Barq's ~ Both red and blue but *only* if they are first issue acls from *1939*



6. Barq's ~ Tulsa, Oklahoma ~ This one is a bit of a mystery but I would be interested in it if the 1939 date is accurate.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

The San Diego bottle show is today - maybe I will find a cool Barq's bottle. I'm just heading out the door now and will report back later.


----------



## SODAPOPBOB

I attended the San Diego bottle show yesterday but there wasn't a single Barq's bottle in the entire show. In fact, there were very few acl soda bottles, with most of the soda bottles being Hutchinsons, Blobs, and straight-sided examples. But because I didn't want to leave empty-handed, I purchased a straight-sided Coca Cola bottle from a friend of mine. The bottle is a mid-script Coca Cola from Savannah, Georgia and made by the O.B. CO. 

I haven't taken any pictures of it but its identical to this example from Sam Evans' website where he refers to it as common and valued at $25-$50

 Sam Evans' Site

http://teampins.com/savannahcoke.html


Another reason I purchased this particular bottle is because I didn't recognize the makers mark and was pleased to discover later that the O.B. CO. was only in operation for two years, which made it easy to date my bottle as being made in 1904-05  

O.B. CO ... Ohio Bottle Company, Newark Ohio (1904-1905). Short-lived merger of 3 factories. Later merged with several other plants to form the American Bottle Company.




Footnote:  The real highlight of the show was having a nice chat with Cecil Munsey who is member of the San Diego club and a longtime researcher of bottles. Cecil is 81 years old now and walks with a cane, but he's just as knowledgeable today about soda bottles as he has always been. He has done more research on 7up bottles than anyone I know and told me that he has at least six examples of early paper label 7up bottles, one of which he thinks might be similar to the one I discussed in an earlier thread. I have an open invitation to visit Cecil in his home anytime I want and plan to do just that sometime this coming summer. By the way, I asked Cecil how many copies of his Coca Cola book he sold over the years, which was first published in 1972, and he said he sold over 100,000 copies before it went out of print. He also said that a lot of the original manuscript was hand written that his wife would later type out before it was submitted to the publisher. That was before computers and he said a lot of the research for the book required a lot of traveling and a lot of letter writing to obtain the necessary information. 

Here's a picture of Cecil's 1972 Coca Cola book ...


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## Bass Assassin

Bob, thanks for all the hard work you've dedicated to this thread. It has been a real pleasure following you and seeing what you discovered. I hope you do go by to see Mr. Munsey at his home. I'm sure that would be an enjoyable experience. 
I have owned only 1 Barq's bottle and I gave it to a friend., it was a light blue and white ACL and if I remember correctly it was 12 ounces I think.


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## barqlady

The source of the "Jesse Robinson being the illegitimate son of Ed Barq" was made by a Robinson relative in an attempt to scam Coke for a payout. It didn't work but the media found the accusation salacious and reprinted it.

Ed was only 16 yo and living in New Orleans (or France) when Jesse was born. In order for this theory to be plausible, a young 16 yo Ed would’ve had to get on a train to Long Beach, MS, impregnate 14 yo Mary Smith, return to NO, years later relocate to Biloxi, and find his so-called "son." 

My theory is that Ed, having never known his own father and having experiencing great personal loss of his own, took pity on a young boy who likely showed his scrappy, energetic, and outgoing personality as a child. Jesse was Ed's "ultimate" apprentice, friend, collaborator.


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## BARQS19

SODAPOPBOB said:


> Bass:
> 
> I hope you don't mind, but I'm going to toss this into the mix and see if it produces any results ...
> 
> And if you do mind, I will cancel it!
> 
> It involves my apparent obsession and inability to find a single bottle, sign, card, etc. with "Barq Brothers Bottling" on it. And regardless if such an item dates 1890 to 1897, I will give the first person who finds something along those lines a free copy of Rick Sweeney's 2002 acl book (pictured below), which is currently valued at $60. All I ask is that the qualifying item not be a newspaper article or similar reference, but be an actual item such as those mentioned above, even if all you find is a picture of the item. And if the person who finds something happens to be one of the members who recently purchased one of the books from me, I will send them their money back. There's just gotta be "something" out there that was produced by the Barq Brothers, but I'll be danged if I can anything despite the numerous hours I have searched!
> 
> Note: The free book offer will remain in effect until someone finds something or until December 31, 2016. In other words, whichever comes first.
> 
> So there you have it - be the first to find a Barq Brothers item and you will not only establish soda pop history, but also receive a $60 book to-boot!
> 
> Signed ...
> 
> Sodapopbob
> 
> View attachment 172237



If anything were to pop up with Barqs Bros on it it could be potentially be worth thousands of dollars. So far, no one has seen anything. As for the term "Orangine" I'm guessing it was not a patented name or it was like the word "cola" a term that could be used by everyone. I've seen way too many Orangine bottles, foreign and domestic, and came to the conclusion that no one owned the name.
BARQS19


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## SODABOB

BARQS19 said:


> If anything were to pop up with Barqs Bros on it it could be potentially be worth thousands of dollars. So far, no one has seen anything. As for the term "Orangine" I'm guessing it was not a patented name or it was like the word "cola" a term that could be used by everyone. I've seen way too many Orangine bottles, foreign and domestic, and came to the conclusion that no one owned the name.
> BARQS19




BARQS19

Good to hear from you. Except for barqlady, no one has posted on this thread for about three years. I posted the attached newspaper snippet earlier but don't recall exactly when. Based on the way its worded, it sounds like the Barq Brothers had some type of rights/patent for Orangine - at least at the time this ad was published in 1893. But what might have happened after that, I'm not sure.


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## SODABOB

But then again, maybe it was *Sparkling *Orangine that was protected ...


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## Today14

SODAPOPBOB said:


> I'm adding another Barq Brother's brand to the list that I'm searching for ...
> 
> 3. A "Ginger Dew" bottle or paper label


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## Today14

Today14 said:


> View attachment 209233


This is a receipt I have from 1894.


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## Today14

SODAPOPBOB said:


> Here's some additional information about Jesse Robinson and the Cascade Bottling Works ...
> 
> Link to 1922 Re-Ly-On Bottler magazine
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=cuocAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PA46&dq=Orangine+cascade+bottling&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi14cWkvNzMAhXDjCwKHSRbAOwQ6AEIMDAC#v=onepage&q=Orangine cascade bottling&f=false
> 
> From a 1922 New Orleans newspaper
> 
> View attachment 171797
> 
> From a 1979 Newspaper -
> Jesse Robinson was not 'adopted' by Edward Barq but was raised by him. I don't know all of the details about their 1934 agreement, but based on the previous information, Jesse Robinson was the owner/manager of Cascade Bottling Works at least as early as 1922.
> 
> View attachment 171798
> 
> Here's another brand from the Cascade Bottling Works -
> 
> "Big V Five" (Date unknown but likely 1920s-1930s)
> 
> (They also bottled "Orangine" and "Barq's")
> 
> View attachment 171799
> 
> View attachment 171800
> 
> 
> 
> *I'm currently trying to fill the gap between 1893 when "Orangine" won a gold medal in Chicago and its appearance with the Cascade Bottling Works in the 1920s-30s. So far its a mystery to me what became of "Orangine" after it was apparently first bottled in 1893.*


It was sold in barrels.


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## Today14

Today14 said:


> It was sold in barrels.


That's all I have is the receipt . If I come across any other things I'll let you know . Thanks


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## Today14

Today14 said:


> That's all I have is the receipt . If I come across any other things I'll let you know . Thanks


I have some receipts with Grossman on them from the same time period.


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## Today14

Today14 said:


> View attachment 209233


I have been having this Barqs receipt alone with other different papers and receipts it was a few months ago that I realized what it was. I hope this group likes it.


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## Today14

Today14 said:


> It was sold in barrels.


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## Today14

SODAPOPBOB said:


> P.S.
> 
> The earliest 'Crown Finish' bottle I'm aware of is an 1895 "Murdock & Freeman" from Portland, Maine. The finish and closure were invented by William Painter in 1892. Even though "Orangine" was around in 1890 and won an award in 1893, I suspect the "Orangine" bottle cap I posted is later than 1895. I'm not sure how long "Orangine" was bottled but suspect it might have fallen to the wayside when Barq's Root Beer was introduced in 1898.


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## Today14

At least July of 1894 they produced Orangine


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## Today14

SODAPOPBOB said:


> New theory about the origin of ...
> 
> BARQ'S ORANGINE
> 
> As this page from a 1950s Barq's booklet confirms, Edward Barq Sr. spent 13 years in Bordeaux, France "where he studied chemistry and the science and art of making flavoring extracts."
> 
> View attachment 172230
> 
> As this newspaper article confirms, Edward Barq Sr. was born in New Orleans in 1871 ...
> 
> View attachment 172231
> 
> As the information on this link confirms, "about 1884, when Edward was thirteen, Maria Barq once again moved the family to France." (Which also includes some additional information)
> 
> https://books.google.com/books?id=k29rmauFKY8C&pg=PA144&dq=Edward+Barq+Bordeaux+france&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjGqtm9uIzNAhWyZpoKHZLqCZ4Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=Edward Barq Bordeaux france&f=false
> 
> 
> Which brings us to this "Orangine" liqueur bottle made by Mispelblom Zutphen in the Netherlands. I do not know how old this particular bottle is, but I do know that Mispelblom Zutphen was established in 1770 and is still in business today.
> 
> View attachment 172232
> 
> Here's a map showing Bordeaux, France in relation to the Netherlands, which is north of France ...
> 
> View attachment 172233
> 
> And here's my new theory ...
> 
> Because Edward Barq spent thirteen years in France studying chemistry and flavoring extracts, I'm inclined to believe that at some point he could very easily have encountered, and possibly even experimented with, the Orangine liqueur produced in the Netherlands. Of course this is pure speculation on my part, which is why I use the term "theory" because it goes hand in hand with the word "speculation." But regardless of that, the main thing I'm thinking at this juncture is that "Orangine" might have been a generic term used at the time, especially in Europe, just as the word "cola" became generic over the years in the United States and elsewhere.
> 
> In other words ...
> 
> I'm inclined to suspect its highly possible that the Barq Brothers Orangine and the Schmidt & Company Orangine both have roots that originated in Europe, and possibly directly from the Mispelblom Zutphen brand of Orangine produced in the Netherlands.
> 
> Please Note: This is just a "theory" of mine that obviously requires additional research to either confirm and/or refute!





SODAPOPBOB said:


> I have been searching New Orleans directories and the earliest listing for Barq Brothers is 1894. They are not in the 1890 through 1893 directories. When we couple this with the 1893 newspaper article I posted, it appears the Barqs did not return from France until 1893 at the earliest. But even more interesting than that, the 1894 directory list them as "*cordial*" manufactures. As we know, cordials are a form of sweet liqueurs. Now I'm wondering if the Barq's first business ventures in New Orleans primarily involved the bottling of cordials and not soda pop? I'm also wondering if Orangine was some type of carbonated/sparkling liqueur and not necessarily a true soda pop? I guess I'll have to think about that question for a while and try and answer it later. In the meantime, here's the listing from a ...
> 
> *1894 New Orleans, Louisiana Directory*
> 
> Notice the 547 Royal Street address - which we discussed earlier
> 
> View attachment 172263
> 
> View attachment 172264


Hello Sodapopbob the receipt I posted is from a Saloon so it could of been a liqueur. Hope that helps.


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## CANNIBALFROMLOUISIANA

I seem to recall an early stoneware Barq's for Ginger Beer. I'll try to run it down in one of my ancient reference books.


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## Today14

Bass Assassin said:


> Great question Bob.
> Many mysteries abound in the search for Barq's history. I don't know if it was just really bad record keeping or maybe some things were kept hush hush for so long that the truths are now like muddied water.
> Here's what I do know about south Louisiana. You can draw an imaginary horizontal line between Alexandria and Lafayette. The good folks to the south of that line are independent and a little on the stubborn side. They will give you the shirt off their back but don't dare try to order them around. I've had many good friends from Acadiana (south central area of LA) and they are some of the most generous people in the world. The folks in the New Orleans area are a different group of people. They are living in a different world than the rest of the state.


I know this is a older post. Down here you never know what's going to turn up when you start digging


CANNIBALFROMLOUISIANA said:


> I seem to recall an early stoneware Barq's for Ginger Beer. I'll try to run it down in one of my ancient reference books.


Cool thanks, I live a hour from New Orleans


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## marycarolherrington

Bass Assassin said:


> I realize Barq's may be a regional root beer but I was just curious if anyone here has any of the older bottles from turn-of-century or even the teens. Until today I didn't know this drink originated in southern MS and New Orleans. I would like to see some of those earlier bottles if anyone has something to share.


I have a pristine 1850s Biloxi Ms. Bottle all in tact.


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## marycarolherrington

marycarolherrington said:


> I have a pristine 1850s Biloxi Ms. Bottle all in tact.


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## marycarolherrington

Not 1850s but closer to first full year of operation. I want to find a good home for it. I am the last in my bloodline and it's time to let go.


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## hemihampton

And what was the first full year of Operation? Nice Bottle by the way. It's known as a Hutchinson Bottle. Which were first produced in 1879. 

P.S. Welcome to the site.


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## marycarolherrington

hemihampton said:


> And what was the first full year of Operation? Nice Bottle by the way. It's known as a Hutchinson Bottle. Which were first produced in 1879.
> 
> P.S. Welcome to the site.





hemihampton said:


> And what was the first full year of Operation? Nice Bottle by the way. It's known as a Hutchinson Bottle. Which were first produced in 1879.
> 
> P.S. Welcome to the site.


there is no date. On the front of the bottle  it says Biloxi Artisian Bottle Works  E. Barq Biloxi Ms. With some numbets at the bottom that looks like 122'02


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## hemihampton

marycarolherrington said:


> Not 1850s but closer to first full year of operation. I want to find a good home for it. I am the last in my bloodline and it's time to let go.




When you say not 1850 but closer to first full year of operation, what do mean by first full year of operation? operation of what? the bottling works? or something else?


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## hemihampton

I see 2 different variations listed on the Hutchbook.com Website. Link below. LEON.

Hutchinson Project-Search Results (hutchbook.com)


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## marycarolherrington

hemihampton said:


> When you say not 1850 but closer to first full year of operation, what do mean by first full year of operation? operation of what? the bottling works? or something else?


Vincent Sims knows more than i do but it is the first Barq's Root Beer bottle design. The lid was sealed with a gadget that is still in the bottle that if you pushed it or successful in pulling out it made a pop sound. The bottle is one of the few bottles intact pristine from when the family began bottling the root beer in Ms. I know the minimum retail cost is $300. I am researching more. I have reached out to the museum creator via the local TV station who did the initial story.


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## hemihampton

The Gadget that sealed it is called a Hutchinson Spring Stopper. It got it's name by the guy that invented it, Mr. Hutchinson in 1879. these were used during the 1880's up to around 1910, They started to fade away after 1910 & replaced by the Crown Top Bottle by then even though some were used later in USA & some say upto 1930's in foreign countries like Puerto Rico, Mexico, ect., ect., LEON.


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## marycarolherrington

Yes that's what is in the bottle. Thank you. Narrows the date for me. It is a miracle it all survived in tact thru the years and thru the wrecking ball of the old hotel.


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## Truth1253

Hey guys I need some help and I hope y’all can help me I have these two barks root beer bottles that I cannot find the exact ones online here is the first one. 

















Mine is just like this one except the Barqs all in mine is singularly separated and not in cursive.

The second one should be easy it’s a barks root beer bottle that instead of having ‘Barq’s so good”It says “Barks Root Beer”
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	







And it’s strain because of the 9 is backwards.

Any help would be great and I’d really appreciate it I’m also looking for a specific root beer can that was made by my father it was called PUSH ROOT BEER. My dad’s family owned barks root beer of New Orleans and he went out on a zone and although it didn’t do well it’s probably very rare. I had the first one that ever came out of production and then I lost it in the hurricane Katrina so if you could find anybody that you know who collects soft drink cans I would be forever in your debt. Thank you for looking and have a blessed day God bless 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






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## Truth1253

Bass Assassin said:


> Thanks ACL. I think at some point the father and son split up and the son went to New Orleans and began his own bottling operation. One was using a blue label and the other used a red label.



My family was the ones that opened up the Barq’s root beer in New Orleans. The Robinsons


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## Truth1253

SODAPOPBOB said:


> I'm not sure how accurate this information is, but if the 1934 reference about the red and blue labels is correct, then there *might* be a 1934 Barq's ACL bottle, which would make it one of only two known ACLs form 1934 - with the other example being a confirmed 1934 Jumbo Cola.
> 
> "The Barq's company originated in New Orleans in 1890 by two brothers. In 1897 one of the brother's moved to Biloxi & opened a second bottling plant there. Barq's root beer began appearing around 1900. In the 1930's, the FDA made some changes to the definition of "root beer" and the original Barq's recipe had too high of a caffeine content to fall into the category. The Mississippi Barq's bottlers changed their recipe to comply with the new standards, while the Louisiana side just removed the phrase "root beer" from their bottles & kept the old recipe. Eventually, another company bought out the Mississippi Barq's and a long running battle went on between the two companies until Coca-Cola acquired both in 1995."
> 
> "A 1934 contract with Barq protege Jesse Robinson led to a bottling plant in New Orleans. The Louisiana bottle was printed in red (versus Biloxi's blue) to distinguish ownership of bottles, as blue labeled bottles were returned to Mississippi & vice-versa. The last family-held Louisiana Barq's bottling plant was sold by the Robinson's heirs to Coca-Cola in 2000."
> 
> [ Barq's ACLs - Dates Unknown ]
> 
> View attachment 171754



That was my family the Robinsons


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## Truth1253

SODAPOPBOB said:


> In search of ...
> 
> A better example (than the one shown here) of an embossed Barq's bottle from the Cascade Bottling Works, New Orleans, Louisiana ...
> 
> Note: Barq's bottles marked with Cascade Botting Works could be somewhat rare. This is the only example I have found so far. I'm especially interested in examples with pictures of the base to get some idea of the dates.
> 
> View attachment 171801











Is this a rare bottle that I have?


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## Truth1253

P.S. If ANYONE has a connection with anybody in the canned collecting I’m really looking for PUSH root beer made by my father author L Robinson.


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## Truth1253

This was my brother who lost the battle in court when my Dad died. Nuts 




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## Truth1253

Bass Assassin said:


> Thanks, I was just wondering what those early bottles looked like, you know the labels, etc. I read earlier today that Barq's was first bottled in 1898



I’m not sure still trying to find on exactly like mine


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