# Can't describe the feeling



## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 14, 2006)

Pitfinder and I went on a hunt today for Military and/or Indian artifacts. He has a 2 section hunting lease that is very close to one of the main rivers used by both Indians and Military alike. We had walked over a mile with our detectors all the while looking for flint chips, and we hadn't seen 1 piece of flint nor had 1 good metal target with our machines. We were both walking up a ridge together talking about going home or at least someplace else when my detector went off. I knew it was a ferrous metal and figured it was a piece of oilfield trash but thought what the heck, could be a metal arrowhead.  The first picture shows the vastness of the land we were hunting and it is nothing short of a miracale that one of us happened to walk over that spot. There was no other evidence of a camp of any kind. One of my better finds![]


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 14, 2006)

Flintlock


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 14, 2006)

Found this brass piece 10 feet away from it. Possibly a part of the ramrod? That's what it looked like to me. Thanks,  Kelley[]


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## capsoda (Jan 14, 2006)

Hey Kelley, Great story and great find.[]


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## IRISH (Jan 15, 2006)

Interesting find,  the rest of it is probably near by somewhere too.

 The iron is in great condition too by the look of it.


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## bearswede (Jan 15, 2006)

> Possibly a part of the ramrod? That's what it looked like to me. Thanks, Kelley


 
 Is it hollow and open on both ends? Possibly the piece that attaches to the barrel to help hold the ramrod in place?


 Ron


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

Hey Irish, yes the iron is in great shape ! After some research I believe it is the India Pattern Brown Bess but I'm not 100% sure.

 Bear, I believe that is exactly what it is but I haven't been able to get a good closeup of one off the net. Here is a better pic of mine.  Kelley


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

nuther


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## capsoda (Jan 15, 2006)

Ron is right on target. That is on of three ferruls that hold the ramrod tube on a brown Bess style muzzel loader.The barrel is probably around there somewhere if a farmer didn't use it for a fence post.

 Man if that stuff could talk.[]


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## bearswede (Jan 15, 2006)

Here's an interesting article, Kelly...

 http://www.texasranger.org/dispatch/12/Pages/SimeonNorth.htm


 Ron

 PS... Once you get that lock plate cleaned up it should reveal the manufacturer


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks for the confirmation Warren. We combed the area pretty good but I bet we will go back just in case.[]  Neat article Ron. After I get it cleaned up, I'll post another pic.  Thanks guys,  Kelley


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## bearswede (Jan 15, 2006)

Here's some ramrod pipes that seem similar to yours... What metal are you thinking it's made of?

 http://www.trackofthewolf.com/categories/partList.aspx?catID=14&subID=165&styleID=747


 Ron


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## capsoda (Jan 15, 2006)

Good info Ron. Most production { cheap every day use } flints used corragated brass. You could have a gunsmith make you anything you wanted. The Brown Bess was one of the production type that your average D. Boone could afford.

 Hey Kelly, Abrasive blast lightly to remove heavy deposits and glass blast to remove the rest and pack the exterior of the iron. Soak in penatrating oil { completely submerge } for to or three days. After that you should be able to disassemble it and determine just how good it really is. Might be able to restore it. If it won't come apart after that email me your Ph # and I will call you and give you some other helpful info.

 Oh yeah, don't heat it.


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## atticmint (Jan 15, 2006)

Awsum, find guys   []


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks Bear!  Mine resembles the RP-NW-F-6-B. It is brass and we are going back to that site in about 30 minutes. Cap, I have already used my dremil and soft wire brush on it and it's looking pretty good, but I do have access to a bead blaster out at work and I thought I would hit it ever so lightly with that. I am a firm believer in Kroil Oil and you can bet it will get a good soakin![] Now, if me or Pitfinder can just find that barrel today![] Thanks guys,  Kelley


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## cc6pack (Jan 15, 2006)

Gunsmoke,

 You can also use an electrolysis method. It's simple to use and only takes about a day to complete. All you will need is some Red Devil lye (crystal form), plastic bucket, and zink. Maybe some rubber gloves if you want to keep your finger prints. be glad to post instructions if you're interested.


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## capsoda (Jan 15, 2006)

I'm set up for that, pro like, I'm a jeweler. I use it to get badly corroded movements out of solid gold and silver cases. I'd be carefull on fine iron peaces like that. Check it every few hours so it wont pit or try using salt with no iodine in it instead of lye. I always use a stainless steel electrode. Zink, copper and brass can leave micro deposits on what your cleaning.


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

Well we just got back from the same spot and we didn't find the barrel![&o] We did however find 5 more pieces of the gun. The most impressive is the brass side plate opposite the flintlock mechanisim. It is a serpent, or dragon or something. Hopefully it will help identify the gun. There was one more small broken brass piece, an iron screw, an iron catch lever, and a smashed ornate brass piece that we are not sure about. Possibly the tip of the ramrod?  Any ideas would be appreciated. Thanks,  Kelley


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

1 more


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## flasherr (Jan 15, 2006)

Nice find kelly. One of these days i might actualy get up that way to visit with yall
 Brian


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## capsoda (Jan 15, 2006)

Hey Kelley, with the dragon on it I'd say it was probably made in Europe, possibly France and came to Texas through Mexico. Maybe Mexican Army issue, used in some battle against  those Rebeldes Tejanos like the ones that held the Alamo.

 The brass cap looks like the hand end cap of the ramrod.

 It might have been droped or thrown away by a local Indian.

 I'd go over that hole area with a fine tooth comb and a magnifing glass.

 Very cool finds man.


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks Brian. Come up anytime and we'll have fun diggin for bottles, or metal detecting, or just drinkin Crown and swappin stories![] I have found out for sure what I discovered. It is a Northwest Barnett Trade Gun. Complete with Dragon/Serpent side plate! Early 1800's. Mystery solved thanks to Google and an area archaeologist I know.[] Kelley


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 15, 2006)

Thanks Cap.  We went over the area really well...... As well as 2 detectors can in an area that vast. Had to be a rider tooling along and his gun fell apart. Boy I bet he was surprised the next time he needed it in a hurry![8|]  Kelley


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## capsoda (Jan 15, 2006)

Good deal Kelley, Glad you found the info you need.[]

 Excellent finds.


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## cc6pack (Jan 16, 2006)

Gunsmoke

 I labeled a coupla the parts for you, I have some antique arms books if you need help in identifying.


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## cc6pack (Jan 16, 2006)

pic


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 16, 2006)

Thanks a lot cc. That first question mark is the other end of the side plate. It snapped off. It's the end screwhole. Didn't know that other piece was the tumbler. I think that mashed piece might have gone on the end of the ramrod but it's hard to tell for sure. Thanks again for your research!  Kelley

 PS.  You would think we would have found a couple more screws but we didn't.


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## bearswede (Jan 17, 2006)

Here's a look at the complete piece...

 http://www.thefurtrapper.com/trade_guns.htm

 Ron


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## Ye Olde Prospector (Jan 17, 2006)

Hi Ron,

 That's an interesting article. I have dug up a few of those old scales with the hooks. Knew they were old scales but didn't know what they were called. Farmers probably used them for weighing meat and produce around here. Interesting.

 Cliff


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## capsoda (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Kelly, The dragon side plate can be repaired if you can find someone that can do micro welding but you will lose the patina because it will have to be cleaned very well.
 I mention this because I had a time with a customer that I did some work for who aparently didn't understand what the words "cleaned very well" ment. It ruined his patina.


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## bearswede (Jan 17, 2006)

> It ruined his patina.


 
 Patinas can be restored...


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 17, 2006)

Great article Ron, thanks a million! Cap, I would like it repaired but I am leary of messin with patina's. I really screwed up a few years ago when I unearthed a V.M.I. cartridge box plate in excellent condition. Yep, I cleaned it.[&o] It's still a beautiful artifact, it will never be for sale, and I know it's original, but if I had it to do over I would leave it alone. 

 Ron, can patina's be restored to look right, or does it just look like someone tried to restore an artifact some idiot (like me) polished?[]  Thanks guys, Kelley


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## capsoda (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Ron, You know this and I know this {I have to do it all the time in Jewelry work} But try to explane that to an histerical antiques dealer that kind of     acts .....uuuh....kinda.....uuuh.....you know......dresses and acts like you old Aunt Bess.[]

 Yeah Kelly, Patina can be restored. Cleaning and polishing doesn't change value or fact there of, it is stricktly a preforance thing.[]


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## bearswede (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey guys...

 This here ancient Roman coin looked like a blob of corroded metal when I got it in a bag of "dirty ol' coins" on ebay... When I was thru cleaning, it was like a bright shiney new penny...

 After several rounds of baking, chemical baths and gun blueing treatments... VOILA!!!!



 Ron

 PS... By the way, in case you guys were a'wonderin'... That's Crispus, xbastardx son of Constantine I...


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## capsoda (Jan 17, 2006)

Thats what I'm talkin about Ron.[]


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 17, 2006)

Well I guess that answers my question Ron!  Nice job! And you..... a retired archaeoligist knowing how to do that !!![8|][]. Seriously, I may pm you about my VMI plate.  Kelley

 PS I love what you do with those coins. I've got about 6 or 8 of them myself and I've only been able to make one of them look decent with a couple of hours of electrolosis and a year of olive oil![]


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## flasherr (Jan 17, 2006)

Ive seen thoes ads on ebay for old coins that need to be cleaned. are they worth buying? im always leary about somethign i know nothing about unless it is real chaep lol
 Brian


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## capsoda (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Brian, Not those little copper widows mites, they will crumble if you do almost anything to them. Thats why there soooo cheap.

 Hey Kelly, Gold , silver, copper and brass coins will cleane up quick with Muratic acid with out harming them. Gold can soak for ever, you can't hurt it, silver about a day but it turns black but can be cleaned after the acid with cheap silver cleaner. Copper and brass you have to watch. As soon as it looks clean take it out. Then they can be cleaned just like silver.

 If you want a patina on the Silver, copper or brass just rub it between your hands and put it away for a while and the tarnish returns.

 In my humble oppinion gold should shine and silver should have a rubbed or polished look.

 If you want your dragon fixed send me a PM.[]


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## bearswede (Jan 18, 2006)

Hi Kelly...

 With coins, I've had good luck with lemon juice and those soft metal brushes with wooden handles...very cheap, at the hardware store...

 I've tried muriatic acid, but it requires some caution and should be diluted... Also tried electrolysis with a salt bath which works on really crusted stuff...


 Ron


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## bearswede (Jan 18, 2006)

> are they worth buying? im always leary about somethign i know nothing about unless it is real chaep lol


 
 Hi Brian...

 You can get bunches of real dirty coins for not too much money and have a lot of fun cleaning them up and seeing what you've got... You won't find gold, but I've found some silver plated coins and many are in decent shape so you can research the emperors... Most of the coins, even if in good shape, won't be worth a lot on the market... But definitely worth the fun...

 I did manage to find a $40-50 coin in one batch... Also, I take the better coins and make necklaces out of them...

 Ron


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## capsoda (Jan 18, 2006)

Hey Ron, Heres a couple I did. Cleaned the post Civil War lock and restored the 1860s hand made and enameled pendant. Kinda been thumpin around the idea of restoring the lock.

 Boy I have to do battle with the wife every time I want to show the pendant.[]


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 18, 2006)

You guys sure do good work. Here's a couple more pics. After looking at the broken sideplate under a 30 power loupe I could see the two pieces matched perfectly. I tested superglue out on some brass pieces just to see if it would adhere to brass and it worked great. You have to look close to tell it was broken. The second pic is the mechanism after I soaked it in Evop-o-rust for about 20 hours. This stuff takes off all oxidized metal but leaves the good metal alone. It's pretty neat stuff. It was made for preping gun metal before reblueing.  Thank you all for your intrest, help and posts.  Kelley


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## Gunsmoke47 (Jan 18, 2006)

Cleaned up.


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## capsoda (Jan 18, 2006)

Hey Kelly. Looks good. Evop-o-rust must have phosphoric acid in it. Phosphoric acid loves metal and hates rust.

 Good job.


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## bearswede (Jan 19, 2006)

That's a nice lookin' pendant, Mr. Capsoda...


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## bearswede (Jan 19, 2006)

Good job, Kelly... You can even see the fox-like critter in the circle...


 Ron


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## Miles (Jan 19, 2006)

Great job, that's a beautiful piece there!


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## exquisiteoaf (Nov 17, 2006)

Hello everyone-

 For the people in this thread that had questions about buying those uncleaned ancient coins: 

 I have worked on a good many batches of these uncleaned coins over the years. It's a lot of fun, and more often than not you're able to specifically ID most of the coins you end up with, learning a ton of interesting history along the way. You generally don't find anything valuable enough to profit from, but you never know for sure what you might get. You won't find any gold coins like those Ebay auctions claim, though I did once find a silver one.  

 The discussion board on the following website is an excellent place to start if you want to get into this hobby. There are a lot of experts on there who are very nice and will help you with any questions you might have.

http://www.forvmancientcoins.com/

 Hope this helps someone,

 Mike


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## swizzle (Nov 21, 2006)

Where do you get evop-o-rust from? That looks like a better alternative then electralis (sp). swizzle


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## Gunsmoke47 (Nov 22, 2006)

Hey Swizz, I have bought from a couple of places. www.nebraskanhotrod.com and www.orisonllc.com . I have used it, and I have also used electrolosis. Evapo-rust is safer in that it will not attack metal. Only rust. The draw back is that it is a slow process. What you can do with electrolosis in a few hours takes a few days with Evapo-rust. However, if you aren't careful with electrolosis, you can eat your artifact. Pros and cons to both. Evaporust isn't real cheap, but it can be reused time and time again. Hope this helps, Kelley


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## swizzle (Nov 22, 2006)

Thanx Kelley, I'll look into it. Swizzle


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