# Two Mason jars: freshly dug with lids!



## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

I dug my first whole jars today, after months of finding lids and broken jars. I know nothing of jars and don't have a Redbook, so maybe somebody can help with these. 

 First is a clear quart sized smooth lip Mason embossed "MASON'S/ PATENT/ NOV. 30th/1858". I think it's one of those semi automatic jars, because of the weird mark on the bottom. It was wedged between two rocks in an extremely hard packed soil layer, so it's a wonder it didn't break... It also took me 30 minutes to dig out safely [:-]


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

I've seen these marks on later jars, but did they start using them before around 1905? That's the latest age find I've had.


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

Came with this weird lid on the top too. Metal was corroded, but this is the original lid. It is a weird half gray, half white, half clear shade of milk glass. It is embossed "BOYD'S GENUINE PORCELAIN LINED". It also has "H F J Co" in a cross shape.


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

A nice pint sized aqua ground lip Mason embossed "MASON'S/ PATENT/ NOV30TH/ 1858". It has the same "iron cross" shape on the back that's embossed on the previous lid, but there's no letters on the inside.


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

Thing's sick as a dog, but a tumble would fix it.


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

Ground lip


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

Base is embossed "PAT NOV/ 60/ 26 67". Mold numbers or something?


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

This had the lid too. It says "CONSOLIDATED FRUIT JAR CO. NEW YORK". I think it's a midget mason?

 EDIT: Oops I lied. The cross on the back of this one has letters inside, I just can't read them [] I can read "_ F _ Co".


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## coreya (Aug 26, 2011)

the one with the cross looks like a midget #1941 aqua 25-35 but the lid would  have been worth as much as the jar. On the first jar are you sure it is clear and not aqua, The red book lists the smooth lip varieties in everything except clear. # 1787. The ground lip one in clear is 6-10. Now if there are periods after the "patent. nov. and 1858. thats a 1787-4 and 6-8 bucks. Perhaps cleaned up and photographed in natural light might get better idea. Hope this helps


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

So, the aqua cross one is worth $50-75 with the lid, would you say? It has the original lid, but not the band, so does that have anything to do with the value? I'm selling these, by the way.


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

The first jar is definitely clear, not a hint of aqua. It has a smooth lip for sure, and no periods. I guess it's not in the red book, but it's probably not worth much, right?


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## cyberdigger (Aug 26, 2011)

them porcelain doohickeys are not lids, they're just inserts for zinc lids.. the midget lids are not easy to find intact, and they do literally double the value of midget jars..


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 26, 2011)

Oh, ok... So I have the inserts, whereas the real value is in the screw band... Any value to the inserts though? [8D]


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## Erik T (Aug 27, 2011)

The mark on the bottom of the first mason jar is an Abm machine marking im pretty sure.
 Early abm machines left suction marks on the bottom even though it may not look like others.

 So yes you were probably right about the semiauto machine but im no expert..........

 way cool finds!


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 27, 2011)

I think it's definitely a semi-automatic bottle. I found this on Bill Lindsey's site...

 "Valve marks are almost exclusively found on wide mouth machine-made bottles - food bottles & jars, milk bottles, and canning jars... It is very common on canning jars, including many that were produced by semi-automatic press-and-blow machines possibly as early as 1898 (Birmingham 1980, Leybourne 2001). "

 Should I email the red book writer so that they can correct the listing for the jar?


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## creeper71 (Aug 27, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  coreya
> 
> the one with the cross looks like a midget #1941 aqua 25-35 but the lid wouldÂ  have been worth as much as the jar. On the first jar are you sure it is clear and not aqua, The red book lists the smooth lip varieties in everything except clear. # 1787. The ground lip one in clear is 6-10. Now if there are periods after the "patent. nov. and 1858. thats a 1787-4 and 6-8 bucks. Perhaps cleaned up and photographed in natural light might get better idea. Hope this helps


 I thought it was a midget also, but I am still tryin to learn what is midgets what is not..lol


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## RED Matthews (Aug 27, 2011)

Hello again wheelah23,  The mark on the bottom of the first one is one of two method creations. 
 > It looks to me to be a plain round mold mark.  If this it true, then it was created by a valve in the center of the baffle; which sealed the top of the blank mold cavity and let settle blow air in to push the dropped gob of glass down into the neck ring around and over the plunger.  This process also created a settle blow wave in the glass around the middle of the jar. When the glass was pushed up it closed the valve, leaving the match ring mark.  This was made on an IS P&B Empire or Maul ABM.
 >  If however there are sweeping shear marks inside the circle, then it was made on an Owens machine and the shears cut the lifted glass free from the feeder trough.
 > In the IS P&B the parison is made upside down.  The parison is carried by the neck ring and inverted in the final mold where it is held by the transfer ring when the mold closes.
 > On the Owens machine the parison is made right side up. It is transferred to the final blow mold closing around it under the transfer ring; 

 Nice finds anyway.  RED Matthews


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## Picklejar (Aug 29, 2011)

The liner with a cross on it belongs to a Hero jar. Hero fruit jar co. That's a nice find by itself. The first Patent jar you posted could predate 1905, as this design was prominent 1896 thru 1910.--Joe


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## Picklejar (Aug 29, 2011)

The second jar you posted is a Hero as well. They had glasshouses in Philadelphia, Millville, nj among others. I live down the street from their flagship factory.-Joe


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 29, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  Picklejar
> 
> The liner with a cross on it belongs to a Hero jar. Hero fruit jar co. That's a nice find by itself. The first Patent jar you posted could predate 1905, as this design was prominent 1896 thru 1910.--Joe


 
 So does it match the jar? I figured they had to be related because the lid was sealed over the mouth of the jar, in the dirt. I was planning to put it in the $1 box at the show, but is it worth more? [&:]


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## junkyard jack (Aug 30, 2011)

The first jar shown is un-listed in clear: Red Book 10 # 1787. I have a half gallon with the same cupped base/circular valve mark, Clear, smooth lip 1787. Needs to be added to the next Red Book. Much harder color to find than aqua. 
 The Midget is Red Book # 1941. $25-35, a common midget. Still a nice find, though. The milkglass liners aren't worth much without the zinc lid. 
 Anytime TOC & earlier jars are dug whole, it was a good dig! Jars don't survive very well in the ground.


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 30, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  junkyard jack
> 
> Anytime TOC & earlier jars are dug whole, it was a good dig! Jars don't survive very well in the ground.


 
 I know that better than anyone! []

 I just counted, and I had dug 10 different jar lids (and therefore broken jars) before I finally found these jars! Figures the first time I find a Mason jar whole, I find 3. I've found a lot of broken lighting jars too.


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## Picklejar (Aug 31, 2011)

The Hero cross liner should be paired with a zinc lid (one deep enough to accomodate the "shoulder seal" style top). This would then go on the Hero jar, not as you found it with the liners switched.  I'll buy it for dollar![] --Joe


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 31, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  Picklejar
> 
> The Hero cross liner should be paired with a zinc lid (one deep enough to accomodate the "shoulder seal" style top). This would then go on the Hero jar, not as you found it with the liners switched.  I'll buy it for dollar![] --Joe


 
 Now you're confusing me... []


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## Picklejar (Aug 31, 2011)

Sorry,  the glass liner that you found with the quart jar matches the pint. Not sure if the diameter is exactly the same. Just find lids to put the liners in, there is a regular at Columbus who has a box full of mason lids for a buck a piece. I would def. snap up that Hero pint if I saw it out at the flea market. I really like the smaller pint sized ones. --Joe


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 31, 2011)

The "Boyd's" lid definitely doesn't match the midget jar...


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## LC (Aug 31, 2011)

I like those midgit jars , but the authentic lids can be hard to come up with . I heard once that reproduction lids are being made for them , can't say I ever saw one though .


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## Picklejar (Aug 31, 2011)

That stinks. Now the question is, why are there no tool marks on the lip? Maybe it's been refired[]? Just kidding Wheelie. If we were closer than 2hrs away from each other, I would gladly take this lid less wonder off yr hands.--Joe


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## Wheelah23 (Aug 31, 2011)

Which one? [:-]

 So is the big clear quart mason a Hero made jar? If not, why did it come with a Hero made insert? Could someone in the 1800's have switched the original insert for a different one that fit?

 And the midget is Hero made, but it came with a CFJCo made insert? Now my brain hurts... []

 I'm assuming the HERO MADE insert is what you're saying is uncommon? I'm assuming the CFJCo insert is common, but the midget lids are rare?

 You going to the Hammonton NJ show in a few weeks? If you're really interested I could bring it... [&:]


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## Picklejar (Sep 1, 2011)

Not sure on the maker of the quart, there is no cross on it right? Some one definitely did a switcheroo, they had a bunch of jars and lids around and just put whatever fit, together. I have Atlas lids with Boyd's liners in them etc. The Hero insert is not something you see everyday, and is desirable to a purist who would want to match the period components to a particular jar. And yes unfortunately, the midget lids are hard to come by. I actually saw a couple of midget jars today at the market, not a lid to be seen. I wish I could go to the Hammonton show, but my musical group is doing a mini tour of Canada when its a happening. ---Joe


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