# 1856 Pacific Express Company sign



## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

Well I found this doing my thang this summer. Turns out they were only in busines for 2 years 1855-1857. They were started by a defunct group of expediters and after 2 years bought out by Wells Fargo. Here is there Money Order sign for the Depot station. I was told in great shape this would bringg 800 or more. However not in perfect shape but still good for around 160 years old and been in the river.


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

The holes have some Iron deposit from corrosion but I can still hang it with spacers and 2 lag bolts like intended.


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

Some more unexpected discoveries.


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## Bixel (Nov 10, 2011)

I hate to be the bearer of bad new, nor come off as a asshole but that sign does not look to be 1856-1858.

 Upon doing a quick search, I found this, dated 1911:


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F60816FF3E5517738DDDA90B94DF405B818DF1D3


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

No worries on the bearer of bad news. I sent photos to a Wells Fargo Collector and an appraiser. Neither indicated exact age but I also have 2 more links that put and 1895 date and 1872 date for their operation. ALSO their may have been 2 or 3 under the name?????IDK but here is another link Ive read and contacted the caretaker.

 http://www.westerncoversociety.com/library/expresses/expresses_32.htm


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## LC (Nov 10, 2011)

Regardless of age , its a nice vintage flange sign . Definitely a keeper . I am wondering when money orders first became available .


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## surfaceone (Nov 10, 2011)

Hey Louis,

 Good question.

 "
 The money order system was invented by a private English company in the first half of the eighteenth century. The idea, however, did not get good hold and was abandoned about a century later. While the first money order service was expensive, in 1836, it was sold to another company that lowered the fees. This policy line increased the popularity of the service while still making the product reasonable profitable. Noting the profitability and success of the system, the Post Office took over it in 1838. The further reduction of fees made the system increasingly popular. Luckily, at that time it was transplanted in Continental Europe, India, and the United States and since then, it has become one of the most popular methods for transferring money around the globe." From 
http://www.financialdictionary.net/define/Money+Order/






 From http://bayourenaissanceman.blogspot.com/2010/02/now-thats-price-inflation.html with some different dates...


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## LC (Nov 10, 2011)

Good evening Surf , out of curiousity , I went to good old Google and tried a search concerning the history of money orders . I found that the money order system was established by a private firm in Great Britain in 1792 , and most else what I found is pretty much the same as what you came up with . Did not help too much in the attempt to try and date the sign .


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

No but the 1830s being used in America does put money orders in the 1850 and 1890s. So it at least eliminates an eliminator LOL


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

Actually now I will try to see when the depot was built.


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

OK I thought I figured it was later because RR didnt hit town til 1880 BUT the post office was established in town in 1837.


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## surfaceone (Nov 10, 2011)

Hey Dave,

 It is a great sign, and I'm sure pretty darn rare, but I would be flabbergasted if it dated much before 1890. The graphics are too TOC to my eyes. I did a double take when I first saw it and the dates you cited.

 "In the U.S., most outdoor signs made between 1890 and and 1950 were constructed of a base of heavy rolled iron, which was die cut into the desired shape, then coated with layers of colored powdered glass and fired in a kiln. This process made them durable and weather-resistant. Signs made this way were known as porcelain enamel signs or simply enamel signs.

 Porcelain enamel signs originated in Germany and were imported into the U.S. They quickly became a staple of outdoor advertising across the country. Around 1900, designers experimented with bold colors and graphics on the signs and they were used to advertise everything from cigarettes and beer to farm equipment and tires. Early designs were stenciled, but American designers switched to silkscreens and started using a steel base instead of iron. Later, when porcelain enamel became too costly, tin bases were used instead of steel..." From.


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## madman (Nov 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  historyhunter
> 
> Some more unexpected discoveries.


 nice sign! but im more interested in the skulls and horn  prehistoric mammals?


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

Agreed but the quote you have also says earlier were iron as they move to silkscreen they switched to steel. This is iron so it is silkscreened and iron. Id say later to but Im just trying to nail it down. The companmies existance years should be enough but the info is contradictory.



> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> Hey Dave,
> 
> ...


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

madman that horn I think its a 1850ish bull horn. Its cut by saw from what I think was a market dump. I also have a large blackened femur of something too. Last weekend I found another smaller vermin skull. The large snapper was a very cool find. Shell was gone. I


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

Looking into things before I saw an American Express sign close in likeness to mine flanged and it was 1858 I believe.


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

This is an 1860 sign.


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## surfaceone (Nov 10, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  historyhunter
> 
> This is an 1860 sign.


 
 Hey Dave,

 I don't think it is, despite the "1860-430" marking. "Made in USA" was not a widely used phrase in 1860. I don't believe American Express was operating much outside of New York City in 1860.

 "In 1882, American Express started its expansion in the area of financial services by launching a money order business to compete with the United States Post Office's money orders." From.

 Have a look HERE, for a date approximation on that sign.


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

There you go. Definately later on this sign. Heres another AMErican Express history article in deeper detail. No mention Of PAcific Express

 http://www.fundinguniverse.com/company-histories/American-Express-company-company-History.html


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## historyhunter (Nov 10, 2011)

> In October 1869 William Fargo, his brother Charles, and Ashbel Barney traveled to Omaha, Nebraska, to confer with Tevis and his associates. There Wells Fargo agreed to buy the Pacific Express Company at a much-inflated price and received exclusive express rights for ten years on the Central Pacific Railroad and a much needed infusion of capital.


 
 lol this one says by 1869 there was no P EX Co


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## CALDIGR2 (Nov 11, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  historyhunter
> 
> This is an 1860 sign.


  Not quite. Porcelain enameled steel signs didn't develop until after 1895. Sorry to burst your bubble, but that one dates to the 1910s to 20s. The "1860-4xx" is only the reference number to the design.


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## historyhunter (Nov 11, 2011)

What makes you say this is steel not iron? And why is everyone worried about my bubble? Noone here has had a confirming fact. Can anyone find the exact dates of operation because I have found many conflicting dates. Bold statements but no tue facts.... : ( Pacific Express Company is a bit of a mystery.


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## historyhunter (Jan 7, 2012)

Bump for dating on 1st sign. Its iron flange porcelain


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## Greekone (Dec 11, 2012)

Historyhunter -

 The second Pacific Express Co. which this sign is from formed on November 1, 1879 after uniting the Kansas Pacific and Union Pacific Expresses.  Several railroad companies had holdings in Pacific Express including Union Pacific, and Missouri Pacific before it was bought out by rival Wells Fargo & Co. Express on Aug. 1, 1911.


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