# DIGGERS TV SHOW TONIGHT!!



## epackage (Feb 28, 2012)

Tonight at 10pm and 10:30pm on the National geographic Channel the show will air. I'm not sure if they're digging any glass but I will be recording the episodes...Jim


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## ktbi (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks Jim...I set it up to record....Ron


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## DimeS (Feb 28, 2012)

Here's tonight's episodes taken from the natgeo website:

 10:00 PM to 10:30 PM 
 "Diggers: Montana JuiceRingy and KG are headed to an old prison in Montana to help the local museum curator uncover buried treasure. The shuttered prison has remained unopened for decades, but it once held some of the most notorious outlaws of the Old West. Who knows what the boys will find that once belonged to the prisons infamous residents Contraband? Bullets? A shank?"

 10:30â€“11 PM 10:30 PM to 11:00 PM 
 "Diggers: Digging DixieKG and Ringy hit the beaches along Charleston, S.C. Hurricanes may be a nightmare for homeowners, but they are heaven-sent for treasure hunters. Storms far out at sea often churn up the shoreline, revealing all kinds of treasure, or juice, as they call it. With potential riches and shifting sands, the South Carolina beaches could be a treasure trove. In no time, it looks like they are onto something. Could it be gold?"


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 28, 2012)

> 10:00 PM to 10:30 PM
> "Diggers: Montana JuiceRingy and KG are headed to an old prison in Montana to help the local museum curator uncover buried treasure. The shuttered prison has remained unopened for decades, but it once held some of the most notorious outlaws of the Old West. Who knows what the boys will find that once belonged to the prisons infamous residents Contraband? Bullets? A shank?"
> 
> 10:30â€“11 PM 10:30 PM to 11:00 PM
> "Diggers: Digging DixieKG and Ringy hit the beaches along Charleston, S.C. Hurricanes may be a nightmare for homeowners, but they are heaven-sent for treasure hunters. Storms far out at sea often churn up the shoreline, revealing all kinds of treasure, or juice, as they call it. With potential riches and shifting sands, the South Carolina beaches could be a treasure trove. In no time, it looks like they are onto something. Could it be gold?"


 
 uggg, TV can make anything sound horrible[:'(]


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## digger dun (Feb 28, 2012)

i got a bad feeling about this...folk are gonna start thinkin they're privy pits are full of gold, and deny us permission to dig. or they'll be turned off by green lonewolf diggers inspired by a get rich quick dream, leaving gaping holes, and other digger mess in their wake. and surely incur the wrath of the professional archaeology crowd, who already view us as on par with grave robbers. i just don't see how this could help our hunting...


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## DimeS (Feb 28, 2012)

I agree completely digger


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 28, 2012)

No bottles no watch


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 28, 2012)

> all kinds of treasure, or juice, as they call it


 
  got to dig me some juice []


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## Bixel (Feb 28, 2012)

I wont be able to watch this show. Not available on the Canadian Nat. Geo channel.


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 28, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Word


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## RedGinger (Feb 28, 2012)

Thanks for the heads up, Jim.  I'll be watching.  Bixel, you can probably watch it online later.


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## xxfollyxx (Feb 28, 2012)

DIGGERS is on NatGeo right now. Looks like a bunch of Dbags looking to make $. Would be much more interested if it was collectors


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## Indianabottledigger (Feb 28, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  xxfollyxx
> 
> DIGGERS is on NatGeo right now. Looks like a bunch of Dbags looking to make $. Would be much more interested if it was collectors


 
 Couldn't agree more!!! "Juice"......give me a break. The fact that they keep saying that makes me want to stop watching!


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## wolffbp (Feb 28, 2012)

Oh boy, really?  Of all the detectorists out there, they pick these two guys?  Really?  This is exactly why we don't need a bottle digging show.  Poor Representation!  I'd rather watch Bill Ladd on YouTube, thank you very much but no thanks.


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## RedGinger (Feb 28, 2012)

They found a few cool things, but the cheesy factor was over the top.  I'd rather it more focused on just finding stuff without out all the clowning around and silly terms.  I guess we bottle digger have our terms too, but it had me rolling my eyes a lot.  It was a letdown, but I wasn't expecting much.  Still not sure why an archaeologist would have such a problem with it, though.


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 29, 2012)

> Still not sure why an archaeologist would have such a problem with it, though.


 
 it matters what kind of Archeologist. The contract arch firms see every old relic in the ground as a potential source of revenue for them to be funded to dig up.


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## creeper71 (Feb 29, 2012)

I haven't watched this an I can tell you now I don't like it... My hobbies are Dump digging, bottle hunting at flea markets an metal detecting..I sure in the hell don't what a show on national tv give away any secerts or ballooning facts to make it sound more interresting an having aholes watchin it taking over all my site/potenial sites hoping to get rich quick... As everyone here knows it takes years to know what is a good bottle an what is junk an it is a never ending process learning.. It isn't something joe SMOE is going to get rich off of .All they are going to do is riun it for all of us  or balloon the bottle/other aftifacts  prices at there yardsales cause jackass from TV SHOW said it's worth such nsuch


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 29, 2012)

This show will be off the air in no time. Its stupid.


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## Newtoit (Feb 29, 2012)

It's on SPIKE in March in Canada Bixel.
 Debbie


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## RedGinger (Feb 29, 2012)

Here's a link for you.  You can follow their FB link.


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## CALDIGR2 (Feb 29, 2012)

Why bother? Stupido!


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## tigue710 (Feb 29, 2012)

these people were calling me asking if I wanted to do a show with them last year, I flat out denied idea.  they went as far as to offer me a contract, discuss wages per episode and fly me out to talk with them.  I had thought about doing it a few years back when a few of us forum members were first approached about a show called American Diggers, and was talked out of it by other members here along with a healthy does of the "light"! 

 Now the show has already attracted negativity from the archaeological community, another nail in the coffin for those of us who enjoy investigating and learning about the past with a shovel.  no good can come of these shows, especially when produced by people who want to emphasize money or injury, the two things a show must have to capture the American public's attention...


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## jeff baker (Feb 29, 2012)

As an archaeologist I wanted to make a comment that I've seen on several webpages discussing this and similar shows. People seem to assume that we make money by selling the artifacts we dig up. We don't. The artifacts archaeologists excavate are given to a museum for care and storage. These artifacts can also then be shared with the public. Archaeologist, regardless of whether they work for a university, a museum or a private company, do not make money from selling of the artifacts. 

 The major problem that archaeologists have with activity show on Digger is because they pay no attention to context. The location of an artifact relative to other artifacts and to the remains of buildings tells us a lot about the behavior of past people


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 29, 2012)

> As an archaeologist I wanted to make a comment that I've seen on several webpages discussing this and similar shows. People seem to assume that we make money by selling the artifacts we dig up. We don't. The artifacts archaeologists excavate are given to a museum for care and storage. These artifacts can also then be shared with the public. Archaeologist, regardless of whether they work for a university, a museum or a private company, do not make money from selling of the artifacts.
> 
> The major problem that archaeologists have with activity show on Digger is because they pay no attention to context. The location of an artifact relative to other artifacts and to the remains of buildings tells us a lot about the behavior of past people


 
 I cant say I have ever heard anyone say they thought archaeologists make money off selling artifacts (not on this forum anyway). It seems like an idea opposed to the basic concept of archaeology, to preserve historic items for study and increase our knowledge of the past.
 I have known quite a few archaeologists who were collectors themselves. Collectors have contributed a huge amount to our knowledge of history and most serious ones are not driven by the money aspect of the hobby.


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## tigue710 (Feb 29, 2012)

I can understand that Jeff, I agree that the context an item is found in is as important to the item itself.  I document everything I find in context to its surroundings.  I research the site, the history, and use the items to expand on such.  I agree that the treasure hunters who tear up historical sites for monetary gain are destructive to out history and most of all to us, the hobbyist enthusiasts who have a deep love with the history connected with the items we find.  Its the movement by archeologists to take away our right to search for and find these things that gets under our skin.  We have as much of a right to study and add to the history of the areas we live as anyone.  That we collect the items we find in private collections does not take away from the the community at large. 

 This why I think these shows are so terrible, they draw negative attention.  Shows and people like the ones portrayed on these shows make it all the harder for the honest collector to peruse the hobby...


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## madpaddla (Feb 29, 2012)

Regarding Archies:

 I live in the poorest area of CT.  Many "historical sites" that are excavated are in other parts of the state (Hartford, New London, New Haven, etc)  and rarely if ever in my area.  We are the "forgotten corner".  So the sites are to stay as they are until the state or universities find it in their time to study it?  Lastly, what determines a site........couldnt anything be a historical site.  Is a house / property c 1900 a historical site even if someone famous didnt live there.  

 Wondering your thoughts Jeff.


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## jeff baker (Feb 29, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 This is the quote I was explicitly referring to. In re-reading, I realize you are not saying we get money off of the artifacts themselves, but, are still implying that we are in it just for the money. As a contract archaeologist, we generally make less money the more we find. I know that sounds kind of weird, but, contract work starts out with surveys. The contracts we sign for survey projects are based upon the number of acres to be surveyed. In preparing a proposal for work, I try to make some estimate of how many sites might be present in the survey area. The more sites we identify, the longer the survey takes, and the longer it takes for us to prepare our report. If I put together a bid for a project and estimate we are going to find five sites, and we don't find any, or find 1 or 2, my company will make more money off the project than we expected. On the other hand, if we find 9 or 10 sites, we might not make any profit at all on that particular project. For extremely large projects, I will often put in wording that if we find over a certain number of sites, we will need an addendum to the contract.

 For excavation projects, it gets more complicated. We usually try to put in wording into the contracts to account for finding more than we expected to find. But, the key factor is the number of features (pits, remains of houses and other structures, canals, etc.) we find, not the number of artifacts we find. I was in charge of an excavation of a site near Prescott, AZ several years ago, where all of our preliminary work suggested we only had to worry about excavating the remains of two structures. We found the remains of 12 structures and 15 associated features. We would have lost our shirts on that project if not for wording that stipulated an addendum to the original contract.

 The vast majority of projects conducted by contract firms are survey projects (looking for sites), rather than excavation projects. As I mentioned above, we generally make more money the less we find. But, the regulatory agencies do send people out for spot checks to make sure that sites are not being ignored.

 This is probably more than any of you wanted to know about how the business end of archaeology works.


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## coreya (Feb 29, 2012)

I recorded the shows last nite and WHAT A WASTE OF DVR TIME, that was like watching the bevis and butthead show only not as funny (and I dont like that show either). Where did they come up with some of the lingo they spouted? If the viewing publics IQ is under 70 the show might last. Just my humble opinion.
 also as an aside to the archaeologist discussion I have no problem with digs conducted by archaeologists as long as they do not regulate or attempt to regulate the private citizen on private or public property (which is owned by all)with permission  from hunting artifacts or engaging in a non-destructive hobby. The Govt has no business telling me that I can't keep an old silver coin found while metal detecting or an old bottle found digging an abandoned dump.


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## jeff baker (Feb 29, 2012)

Tigue710, Your post hits on the a lot of the  basic misunderstandings between collectors and archaeologists. In talking to other archaeologists, and reading the comments on various websites people have made about the tv shows "Diggers" and "American Diggers" it is clear that there is a lack of dialogue between the two groups of people. Over the last five years I have learned a lot about historic artifacts from looking at collector's websites. It is clear that you have a lot of knowledge to provide to the archaeological community.

 The situation with where an artifact ends up (a museum or someone's house) is a difficult topic to find common ground between collectors and archaeologists. The current laws and regulations clearly aren't working. Trying to extend those laws (that mainly apply to public land) to private land will not help. I have some ideas I'm working on now, and I definitely will share them with this forum when I've gotten them down on paper in a more understandable form than they are currently in.

 As I'm writing this I wonder if it would be useful for collectors to invite archaeologist to come along with them on their digging expeditions, and for collectors to visit archaeological excavations.


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## jeff baker (Feb 29, 2012)

madpaddla,

 Under most laws in the US, something is historic if it is older than 50 years old. A 100 yr old house that a local farmer/doctor etc. lived in could still provide a lot of useful information about the history of the region. I live in Nevada, so I don't the situation in CT at all. But, here in NV there are a number of amateur associations that conduct archaeological work. They often have a professional archaeologist providing them with advise, as well as helping them get the information from their excavations out to a larger community. 

 If there are sites in your area that you think need to be excavated talk to other people about it. You might want to get in touch with the Archaeological Society of Connecticut (www.connarchaeology.org) and see if they might be interested. I wish I could give you some more concrete answers, but, I am just not very familiar with that part of the U.S.


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## cowseatmaize (Feb 29, 2012)

It's obvious that there is a difference of opinion. 
 Mine is that a farmers backyard belongs to to the farmer and they are who should get to choose who digs on their land. If archeologists suspect a historically important site, then fine. Like the Temple NH and and other sites let them have it.  I want to see it done properly. If it's under a highway allready, who else can take the time or get the permission.
 Backyard dumps and crappers are open game with permission (emphasis on with permission).
 Battles were fought all over and a few scattered skirmishes aren't that historically significant in my opinion and import persons involved should be documented in old ledgers, I few bullets and bottles should be available to anyone who finds them (again, with land owner permission).
 My Q about the show(s) is do they get permission?


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 29, 2012)

> The situation with where an artifact ends up (a museum or someone's house) is a difficult topic to find common ground between collectors and archaeologists. The current laws and regulations clearly aren't working. Trying to extend those laws (that mainly apply to public land) to private land will not help. I have some ideas I'm working on now, and I definitely will share them with this forum when I've gotten them down on paper in a more understandable form than they are currently in.


 
 I would be interested to see your ideas.

 In the USA the laws seem to be all over the place depending on what state you are in.  Places like Oregon have crazy laws.
 Good intentions seem to go astray when bureaucrats get involved.

 England seems to have a reasonably well working system for gold and silver finds but it's lacking for non-precious metals and other items.

 Most of the privy digs I see dont seem that historically significant but some of the ones people report make me cringe when I see where they are , what is found, and the lack of documentation.

 One problem is many sites are days away from the buldozer and the best you are going to get is a salvage dig.
 No one is willing to pay to properly excavate these sites so its better to have someone dig them before they are totally lost.


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## cyberdigger (Feb 29, 2012)

Who would have thought this thread would evolve into an intelligent discussion!?

 I've always been in favor of archaeologists and collectors cooperating more and learning from each other.. Mr. Baker's impending proposal sounds intriguing..!


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## cyberdigger (Feb 29, 2012)

The way I see it, Archaeologists and collectors, affectionately known as "archies and diggers" have quite a bit in common, the main difference is how each arrived at the historical site.. archies endure many courses of scholastic preparation, and are given official credentials and sanctioned by the systems that be.. perhaps their dreams of becoming an archaeologist were loftier than surveying a TOC homestead but that's their job sometimes.
 Diggers are mostly people who have other careers and consider it a hobby, but the passion level can be quite high and the knowledge gained  from getting dirty in the field can be most impressive.. I'd trust a digger to find the points of interest every bit as much as an archie.. but a team with both types would be a very interesting idea, indeed.. where do I sign up??


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 29, 2012)

The few archaeologists who had the guts to post on this board have been civil and open to discussions.
 If more would post maybe there would a relationship for cooperation. 
 Archaeologists email me regularly for information about early medicine bottles. I always try to help them when I can.


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## Bottles r LEET (Feb 29, 2012)

> Under most laws in the US, something is historic if it is older than 50 years old


 
 So according to most US laws, my Dad is historic?[]


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## bombboy (Feb 29, 2012)

An intelligent discussion for sure. 

 Jeff, you say you are from NV, I too have spent many a year or two in NV, and I've found sites (Native American) that you and your kind will never see. And I will never disclose them. Why you say? I am a digger, collector, love my history, and do my homework before I set out for a day of discovery, with permission of course. But some of the archies I ran into in NV are less than on the up and up. This was many years ago, but it put a sour taste in my mouth that I still can't get out. I saw many of your type acting like the secret police searching our vehicles and basically treating us like second rate citizens because we had a small piece of fossilized wood in the back of one of our trucks. And why was it there you ask? During the changing of a flat tire, someone grabbed a "rock" by the side of the road to put in front of a tire. It worked so well, it was put in the back for future use. Because of this incident, we were all, over thirty of us,  put on a watch list, our trucks and gear checked daily to see if we were stealing any more artifacts. Really, stealing, stealing from who????? There are many other incidents that I could bring up, but I think you see my point.
 Anyway, I'm not putting you into this group, but I'm sure there are other collectors that have had similar experiences that will always put a wedge in the process of working together in the field. 

 Closing question, have you been on NTTR in the last thirty years?

 Regards,  Mark


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## lexdigger (Feb 29, 2012)

> it is clear that there is a lack of dialogue between the two groups of people.


 

 The reason most collectors and archaeologists don't see eye to eye is Lack of communication. Stereotypes are thrown around and we are Pitted against each other from the start. As with ALL hobbies and occupations you have your Good people and your Bad people.

 Amateurs and Pros do work together when given the chance to be connected with the right people. Civil War Relic Hunters, Ancient Native American Artifact Hunters and Bottle Diggers have all worked with and contributed to the Professional Archaeological Record. When you take the time to sit across the table from one another you realize we are a lot alike and have a very common goal that Can and Should be shared. Sadly, this is not always possible. 

 I suggest that Every artifact collector gets to know who is running the show in the community you are exploring. Find out who the Good guys are as well as the Bad ones. State, Universities, Historical Societies, etc. Stay informed and always share information when you can... but keep on your toes for upcoming changes in the laws! Do all you can to Protect your RIGHTS as a law abiding American Citizen!!!


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## tigue710 (Feb 29, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  jeff baker
> 
> 
> 
> The situation with where an artifact ends up (a museum or someone's house) is a difficult topic to find common ground between collectors and archaeologists.


 

 I suppose every museum should have 5000 bromoseltzter bottles displayed somewhere with another 5000 in storage then?  I think the childhood antidote "finders keepers" is the best way to look at where an item should end up.  No one should have the right to tell anyone what they can do with something they toiled to find or even happened to just pick up out of interest.  Its our elementary American right.  I have though on the other hand donated items for study when appropriate, and surly would lend an item I preferred to keep in the interest of knowledge, but that is and should be my choice.  

 the whole topic infuriates me... I dont know an archeologist out there who doesn't have a collection, and I know far more collectors more knowledgeable, hospitable, respectful and less intrusive then a lot of archeologists!  You sound like a nice guy Jeff,  and of open opinion, but its not the norm as Ive experienced, and there is a movement going right now in this country to make it illegal to dig in your own yard, fronted by a bunch of cry babies who are jealous someone else is having fun.  No one under any pretense should be able to take someones rights away.


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## cyberdigger (Feb 29, 2012)

Heel boy.

 We are in a parlance.

 [8|]


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## CALDIGR2 (Feb 29, 2012)

The attitude of most CA archaeologists is that collectors and diggers are "pothunters", plain and simple. I have had no positive relations with the Berkeley types, but do have a few professional archaeologist friends in other states. Sharing information is beneficial to both professional and collector. historical archaeologists will be the first to admit(except Californians) that much of their information concerning bottles and glass came from, or was gleaned from, books written by members of the collecting community. 

 A many year friend of mine is a retired NV state archaeologist and he has long referred to me as "his favorite pothunter". Heck, I've never hunted a pot in my life, but have dug a few thousand privies and picked up several hundred native American artifacts in my 50+ years of being a collector. That being said, I have no time for idiotic shows like "Diggers" or "American Diggers". Programs like that tend to paint all collectors with a broad brush of bad color and foment more ill feelings between the professionals and the avocationals.


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## tigue710 (Feb 29, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cyberdigger
> 
> Heel boy.
> 
> ...


 
 I come off a little more agitated then I mean to, im not sitting here pacing back n forth drooling at the mouth!  Its touchy sujbect is all, theres just to many laws now a days!

 Jeff, I am not directing my hostilities towards you, just discussing the issue in general.  I enjoy engaging in good conversation even if a little opinionated on my part


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## Wheelah23 (Feb 29, 2012)

I haven't met any archaeologists in person yet... I don't yet know if I want to. I see the bile both sides of the argument spill out, so I just have to go on my own experience in forming an opinion. Public land I can understand "belonging" to archies to dig, but the second private property is threatened for digging, I'll take up arms to stop it... Archaeology has its place though.


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## Plumbata (Feb 29, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  tigue710
> 
> theres just to many laws now a days!


 
 Darn tootin'.

 I don't watch TV unless visiting with others; don't even own one, but from what i have gleaned from these posts and the links provided, the show seems more retarded than the special olympics. No offense intended to those with, or attached to those with disabilities, but these folks actually have a choice between respectability and sheer idiocy. I hope the show fails miserably, and that those overweight troglodyte diggers crawl back into the dank holes from whence they came, and never emerge again to sully this hobby for personal profit.


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 29, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> The few archaeologists who had the guts to post on this board have been civil and open to discussions.
> If more would post maybe there would a relationship for cooperation.
> Archaeologists email me regularly for information about early medicine bottles. I always try to help them when I can.


 

 I agree with Matt on this point....very much.      HOWEVER!...


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 29, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  tigue710
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

_THIS_ is how I really feel about things,....Tigue, I might as well have written that, just about word for word.


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## surfaceone (Feb 29, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  jeff baker
> 
> As an archaeologist I wanted to make a comment that I've seen on several webpages discussing this and similar shows. People seem to assume that we make money by selling the artifacts we dig up. We don't. The artifacts archaeologists excavate are given to a museum for care and storage. These artifacts can also then be shared with the public. Archaeologist, regardless of whether they work for a university, a museum or a private company, do not make money from selling of the artifacts.
> 
> The major problem that archaeologists have with activity show on Digger is because they pay no attention to context. The location of an artifact relative to other artifacts and to the remains of buildings tells us a lot about the behavior of past people


 
 Hello Jeff,

 Welcome to the A-BN. I hope we all knew that archeologists weren't selling their finds. The shard market ain't what it never was. I hope we all understand the whole context thing as well. Why exactly are you here disabusing us of such fanciful notions, that I don't believe any of us have held. What sites have you visited, in which people are doing all this erroneous assuming?

 I've not seen this show, and have posted where it can be protested. The portrayal of diggers as "Looters" doesn't do much for my personality. This is a near constant refrain from the archeological community. "Pothunters" may have been the former pejorative. 

 The museums that I know of, show but a fraction of their collections. I try and follow the doings of the archeological world and know that there are warehouses bursting with artifacts that will never see the light of day again. Many are uncatalogued and unanalysed. Good luck going to the museum and asking to see the boxes of material that Professor Whosis collected on that urban renewal project in 1993.

 What sort of objects are in your personal collection, Jeff?

 I deplore these sort of lowest common denominator TV programs. No one will benefit save the Ric Savage types.

 The Oregon laws are anathema to me. Similar regulations are afoot in Florida. Don't misunderstand me, I favor historically important sites to be under the aegis of archeologists. I have trouble understanding how the entirety of Virginia City has become an Historic District. The last time I was there there were several small construction projects in the area south of C Street that escaped any archeological investigation. Is only the Boston Saloon worthy of a look?

 I was looking into Indiana's laws on digging the other day, and was taken aback. I believe the archeological crowd would like to see anything deeper than a geranium off limits. This despite the fact that there is no way that even the majority of would be Historic Sites could be excavated and analyzed, let alone exhibited, in anyone's lifetime.

 I'm not a fan of the overly regulated, legislated, and dictated environment that has been developing in this country in the last however many years. 

 We dig the trash of former generations. Is that trash less valuable in a private collection, where it is enjoyed and sometimes seen by other collectors or diggers, than the trash that sits in warehoses across the country, mouldering in boxes, or on shelves, unseen and un-appreciated?

 I'm not taking any shots at you or your firm. This has been an interesting and quite civil discussion thus far, and I hope it stays that way.

 So what do you think about us old glass guys? Is this an area of interest to you? What do archeologists study when it comes to Historic, or not so historic American glass containers pre 1900? I've encountered seasoned historic archeologists who didn't know a petal jar from a utility. This has caused me some degree of wonderment.


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## cowseatmaize (Mar 1, 2012)

This topic covers a wide range of opinions, mine is still a matter of getting permission.

 Anyone has the right to knock on a door and ask if they can dig a hole in a backyard or look around a field edge. Some things aren't under but above ground in barns, attics and such. What category do those fall under? 

 Serious collector/diggers and Archeologist arenâ€™t that different. They both want to uncover artifacts for the sake of the artifact. Archeologists get funding from external sources, diggers may have to fund themselves and future expeditions through some sales. 
 Shows like those sound strictly for profit and Iâ€™m not a fan for that reason. Most of us tolerate the â€œwhatâ€™s it worthâ€ questions here but arenâ€™t that crazy about them when itâ€™s only wanting to find out what they should set their reserve at on ebay and then theyâ€™re gone. 

 Some laws are over the top like Oregon. Sure thereâ€™s a chance of a Native Americans remains, weapons or other artifacts thrown in the privy but I donâ€™t see it as a wide spread occurrence. Itâ€™s a lot more likely to be filled with excrement and trash. If something historically important is found, a serious digger will share it.

 Speaking of sharing, some of the collectors on here do that on a regular basis at shows, setting up mini museums etc., others Iâ€™m sure would if they were asked. Many of the finds are on display here. 

 Weâ€™re not that different in another way also. Like asking a museum if we can view finds that are reburied in a basement vault, we may have to scrounge through some boxes in ours, or shed, garage etc..
 OK, that sounded a bit sarcastic, sorry.


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## RICKJJ59W (Mar 1, 2012)

The day that they make a law that prohibits digging a privy in "my own yard" or other "private" property that I happen to get "permission" to dig is the day that I  will be known as "The Privy Bandit"


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## RICKJJ59W (Mar 1, 2012)

HE MAKES THE SIGN OF THE PPPPPPPPPP!!!


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## madpaddla (Mar 1, 2012)

Anyone have a link so I can watch the show?


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## Wheelah23 (Mar 1, 2012)

About the show... It certainly wasn't as offensively bad as people here are describing. Sure, they focused a little too much on value, but I think they mentioned donating some stuff to the museum at the prison, and their reactions were priceless. You can't fake that kind of enthusiasm. They were genuinely "interesting" characters, and remind me strikingly of digging you tube personalities, including our own Sick Rick. The dares they did remind me of something Rick would do, and I mean that in a good way.

 I think the ease in which they made money will inspire people to look into metal detecting. Then when they see the price of a metal detector, they'll be quickly un-inspired.


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## Anthonicia (Mar 1, 2012)

The actual show held my interest when I had it on mute.  The constant use of the slang "juice" really made me want to beat the guy senseless if ever I come across him.  Think he was beat quite a lot due to the way he talks.  It's like a stutter slurry of spitty, sour, shut-up-ed-ness.  

 The other guy is the side kick and actually gets beat on bets by "king George".  What a shame.


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## cowseatmaize (Mar 1, 2012)

> You can't fake that kind of enthusiasm.


Ever heard of "acting"? It's TV for gosh sakes.


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## RICKJJ59W (Mar 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 Refer to "The Scott's Emulsion man" OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA OHHHHEEEEEEEEEE  I TOLD YOU WE WERE IN SOMEONES BACK FILL!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAOHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!  FREAKS


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## cowseatmaize (Mar 1, 2012)

> "The Scott's Emulsion man"


I can't say I remember what your speaking of.


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## RICKJJ59W (Mar 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  cowseatmaize
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

 The "New England Boys" digging with Bill Lad I couldn't find the thread. Oh by the way my thumb has been severed [8D]


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## epackage (Mar 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  madpaddla
> 
> Anyone have a link so I can watch the show?


 Hi MP, my cable company shows it playing again this Saturday at 10-11pm and Sunday at 11-12pm. It doesn't appear to be in the regular lineup yet because it's not showing up next week at all in the NGC lineup. IMDB doesn't even have a page about the show and NGC doesn't seem to have anything about it either...

 I have a feeling this might not see the light of day down the road...Jim


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## baltbottles (Mar 1, 2012)

> One problem is many sites are days away from the buldozer and the best you are going to get is a salvage dig.
> No one is willing to pay to properly excavate these sites so its better to have someone dig them before they are totally lost.


 
 I would have to agree all of the most interesting 18th century privies I have dug were on sites that were being excavated  to a depth below the bottom of the privys we dug.  On all of these sites no formal archaeology was done. If it wasn't for us all the artifacts would have been lost and interesting research on the site that followed never would have been done.

 Chris


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## coldwater diver (Mar 1, 2012)

Hello Jeff I'm glad to learn more from archeologists opinions on this hobby that at one point in its history was quite popular. Is there more to learn about how the 17,18,19th centuries average American cooked,ate,slept,medicated(you get the idea). I am not referring to Native American sites just privies, dumps, foundations that sort of stuff. The boneheads on this show do not represent the majority of people in this hobby, in fact they make a great argument for contraception. I believe it is our right to do what we do with  permission on public and private land, with regards to bottle collecting. 
                                  I have my own business(food) for over 20 years now employ over 25 and know all about regulations existing and new ones (always) on the way. I for one am over being regulated in just about everything I do. I read stories about a seven year olds lemonade stand being shut down in Oregon,kids lunch from home being inspected and sent home for not meeting Federal guidelines in North Carolina and it really gets me upset. 
                                   This hobby is very dear to me and Im worried it is in jeapordy from those who think they know better than I. Sorry for digressing Jeff but I would like to know what the archeologist community envisions for the future of this hobby.


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## CALDIGR2 (Mar 1, 2012)

Before 1980, there was very little historical archaeology going on in CA. The emphasis was on pre-contact Indian cultures. I remember sires where earth was taken down to about 18' below street grade and the bottom 3' of many privy pits were exposed and left that way for weeks. That allowed us to get into the site area and dig the remainder out. It was OP gravy and we did not have to worry about filling or leaving a mess. Clean out the glass and go. Lots of black glass Hostetter's, Schnappers, and sodas, both Western and Eastern. The best Eastern one that I can recall was a cherry puce Boardman's. Lots'a leaverites like Burgin and Sons, cheezy Parker's and others, but many boxes of major keepers. Not an archy to be seen; they didn't get on the historical bandwagon until several years later. One prick of an A-hole was Adrian Pritz-Ellis, a Sonoma State College professor who really was convinced that his poop was lovely.


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## wolffbp (Mar 1, 2012)

> Refer to "The Scott's Emulsion man" OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA OHHHHEEEEEEEEEE I TOLD YOU WE WERE IN SOMEONES BACK FILL!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAOHHHHHHHHHHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! FREAKS


 
 Here's what Rick is referring to:  Howard's Pumped!!!!!!
http://youtu.be/wTVTIQe0RJc


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## RICKJJ59W (Mar 1, 2012)

wow I just cant get over them nut cases,It sends chills up my spine.


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## RedGinger (Mar 1, 2012)

Frankly, I am not good with math.  At all.  The archaeology class I took in college was so boring, I didn't want a thing to do with it.  I'm all for leaving the Mayan, Incan, Neathderthal sites, and the like, to the archaeologists.  Metal detecting and bottle digging are awesome hobbies and I don't think an archaeologist is going to go dig my neighbor's historic privy or metal detect in their yard or at the beach.  If people didn't do that, these things would never be found.  Apparently, if it weren't for sites like this and Matt's, the archies would not know most of what they know about bottles.  

 Let's all work together and stop this foolishness.


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## wolffbp (Mar 1, 2012)

LOL you know you love it []


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## tigue710 (Mar 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  RedGinger
> 
> Frankly, I am not good with math.  At all.  The archaeology class I took in college was so boring, I didn't want a thing to do with it.  I'm all for leaving the Mayan, Incan, Neathderthal sites, and the like, to the archaeologists.  Metal detecting and bottle digging are awesome hobbies and I don't think an archaeologist is going to go dig my neighbor's historic privy or metal detect in their yard or at the beach.  If people didn't do that, these things would never be found.  Apparently, if it weren't for sites like this and Matt's, the archies would not know most of what they know about bottles.
> 
> Let's all work together and stop this foolishness.


 

 The problem with it is that all the third world countries the archeologists used to plunder for ancient native sites have archeologists of their own now, and have booted the Americans out.  Now they have nothing left to do except pick over our own Native sites and pick on bottle diggers!

 I'd be glad I wasnt an English archeologists digging up stone henge for the hundredth time!


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## cyberdigger (Mar 1, 2012)

"Tigs In Space" []


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## tigue710 (Mar 1, 2012)

ground control to major Charles


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## cyberdigger (Mar 1, 2012)

Domo arigato Mr Tigato


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## tigue710 (Mar 1, 2012)

> Domo arigato Mr


 

 You're wondering who I am, 
 archeologists or mannequin, 
 With bottles made in Japan
 I am the modern digga man!


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## andy volkerts (Mar 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  CALDIGR2
> 
> Before 1980, there was very little historical archaeology going on in CA. The emphasis was on pre-contact Indian cultures. I remember sires where earth was taken down to about 18' below street grade and the bottom 3' of many privy pits were exposed and left that way for weeks. That allowed us to get into the site area and dig the remainder out. It was OP gravy and we did not have to worry about filling or leaving a mess. Clean out the glass and go. Lots of black glass Hostetter's, Schnappers, and sodas, both Western and Eastern. The best Eastern one that I can recall was a cherry puce Boardman's. Lots'a leaverites like Burgin and Sons, cheezy Parker's and others, but many boxes of major keepers. Not an archy to be seen; they didn't get on the historical bandwagon until several years later. One prick of an A-hole was Adrian Pritz-Ellis, a Sonoma State College professor who really was convinced that his poop was lovely.
> [8|] I believe that this " site" was or might have been sections of old Sackamenny that Cal-trans had excavated, mainly where 3rd, 4th, 5th sts were between D, and O basically were dug out with heavy equipment crushing bottles by the hundreds ifn we hadnt gotten some of em out at night or on weekends..........So much for preserving any history there folks....


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## CALDIGR2 (Mar 2, 2012)

No, Andy, it was the construction of the new Capital Bank of Commerce on SE cor 3rd and Capital. Big green glass building.


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## Diggin4Togas (Mar 2, 2012)

I think these two guys should hook up with Shelby and his LogDog, maybe he can show them where to find some serious round! []


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## Brian M (Mar 3, 2012)

I didn't care for the show.  I know anyone could have done a better job with that show.  Most of the stuff they found was not even worth the amount that they were stating.  Folks watching the show are probably left with the idea that metal detecting is easy and you can go anywhere and get rich.

 As far as a digging show goes, I think Youtube and web sites like this are the best way to go.  There are some interesting videos on there and they are usually entertaining.  I know I have filmed hours of video over the last few years.  Digging videos can be shared with others in the digging community without having to broadcast to everyone in the country about what we do.  People interested in bottle digging can visit a site like this or Youtube.  You know if a person takes the time to search for digging information, they are probably serious about the hobby.  Why do we need to be on T.V. and attact negative attention from people who would want to hurt our hobby?

 As far as digging dumps or privies, I will dig anywhere, I have permission to dig.  Living in the Midwest there are thousands of places to dig.  I never thought about someone coming after me for digging and I don't worry about it.  If no laws are broken, I think it is fair game.  I have been collecting on and off for over 20 years and never had a bad experience.  If things are done right, I don't think any digger has anything to worry about.  Just stay off of state and federal land.


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## VTdigger (Mar 3, 2012)

You guys made some good points in this thread, it's a line I often worry about that someone will try to tell me to stop or that I shouldn't be digging in certain areas, however unless it's posted, I'll have a look around. I have looked in sites around where they had an Archaeological dig in the late 90's of the former US pottery site. http://www.chipstone.org/publications/CIA/2002/NewDiscoveries/Zusy/zusyindex.html

 accross the brook stood another pottery that made stoneware and after Irene I took a walk along the banks and found some stoneware and hard porcelain shards including a peace from a jug with a Julius Norton  mark used in the 1840's-50's and a peace from a pottery rest I posted on this site awile back.   It was nothing compared to what they found on the Archaeological dig, but for me it was fun and I didn't even dig or destroy any land to find it and I appreciate the history such items.   I hunt with respect though there a few place where I know where there's bottles etc to be found but keep out means keep out.   What I find on public non posted land is mine to keep and appreciate.

 That being said, I don't like to talk about what I find or where I find it with to many people, if you get to many people looking to find relics from the past just to get rich is when people start destroying places rather than searching them over looking for relics.  shows like these, I know that alot of it is planted and made up to make the show more interesting, and while digging is a fun hobby, no one always has these finds like you see on TV, sometimes you can hunt for hours and all you find is some 1970's beer bottles.  But thats part of the fun of it, like any hobby is it's all in the hunt, and getting out and getting some fresh air not getting rich.


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## sem_yeto (Mar 6, 2012)

I think if we really get to the bottom of the archs' beef with bottle diggers, it boils down to that the archs want to get paid and make a living doing archeology here in the States, and not have to go to Europe of S America, or Middle East.

 It all comes down to money.  You can talk "context" all you want, but you cant fool me. You want to get paid and have importance put on old trash and bottles, so you can be paid large sums of taxpayers' monies to dig it up.

 Bottle diggers, on the other hand, do it for love of history, and passion , and are paid nothing.  Most diggers, even those who sell what they find, could never make a living at it, since so much time is involved to find so little of value.  They dont get big multi Thousand dollar contracts to dig, like you guys.  I saw a contract about 12 yrs ago for some archs to come in a scratch around on a 40' x 40' lot.  They dug 2 test holes, and wrote a report for $30,000. !!


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## splante (Mar 6, 2012)

I was relieved to see it was metal detecting(not to offend any dectetors) at least the episodes I watched. But I can  still already see a run on "NO TRESSPASSING signs going up because all the "newbies" will be out destroying property, not getting permission, leaving a mess. ect ect Maybe they will stay to the fields ,medows and foundations and leave the glass alone. If it was a show on bottle digging in old dumps this hobby would take a BIG hit.....


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## Wheelah23 (Mar 6, 2012)

Anyone who's dug a privy often knows there is usually very little "context". Privies were filled in at random times, and often random stuff was thrown in. At the very top of a privy, I found a smashed 1860's Saratoga bottle. A couple feet down was an 1890's medicine. When the privy was filled in for good, anything from around the house was thrown in, so that "context" must be thrown out the window. We bottle collectors are after the artifacts themselves, which themselves are a much better revealer of age and history than the bogus "context" they were found in. That's just my experience with privies, other archaeological pursuits have much greater merit... 

 What I'm saying is, archaeological methods would not work very well, and would in fact give an incorrect reading of history, when applied to privies, due to dipping.


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## sem_yeto (Mar 7, 2012)

Wheelah:

 "Context" is the veil the archs hide behind.  It's all about saving their jobs and creating jobs for them !!  Follow the money !!


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## cowseatmaize (May 8, 2012)

I just finally watched some reruns. I love the applied (probably tooled) wine or water that was declared as a beer. What a joke as are the Savages! [][][]
 If I watched the right show that is. [8|][8|]


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## AntiqueMeds (May 8, 2012)

Be sure to watch the next show... I hear they are going to loot an egyptian tomb in Hoboken []


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## RICKJJ59W (May 8, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
> 
> Be sure to watch the next show... I hear they are going to loot an egyptian tomb in Hoboken []


 
 Maybe  a bunch of Scarabs will take him to lunch[8D]


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## Penn Digger (May 9, 2012)

That poor fat dillusional guy.  You guys are so tough on him.  Me thinks Sick Rick is jealous?  LOL

 PD


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## carobran (May 9, 2012)

> ORIGINAL: AntiqueMeds
> 
> Be sure to watch the next show... I hear they are going to loot an egyptian tomb in Hoboken []


 That poor pyramid.........Its gonna sink by at least 4 feet when Rick Savagely Obnoxious walks through the door.[8|]


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## RICKJJ59W (May 9, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Penn Digger
> 
> That poor fat dillusional guy.Â  You guys are so tough on him.Â  Me thinks Sick Rick is jealous?Â  LOL
> 
> PD


 
 I am,I always wanted a 2 ton head for as long as I can remember.


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## bloodj2 (May 10, 2012)

Just watched this show for the first time last night. The Jamestown episode. I thought it was pretty neat, the things that they found but I just can't stomach that man's personality. That and his arrogance that his guys are "the best diggers in America". I know he needs to be dramatic to make good television, but still...was tempted to change channels multiple times.


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## kastoo (May 11, 2012)

I want to know how they remembered where the cannon was..I never heard mention of gps...I did not see a buoy...and since when is an onion bottle worth 400?


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## epackage (May 11, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  bloodj2
> 
> Just watched this show for the first time last night. The Jamestown episode. I thought it was pretty neat, the things that they found but I just can't stomach that man's personality. That and his arrogance that his guys are "the best diggers in America". I know he needs to be dramatic to make good television, but still...was tempted to change channels multiple times.Â


 They didn't "find" anything, they just unearthed the stuff that was planted by the producers...[]


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## Jim (May 12, 2012)

Ric Savage and his goon squad are truly laughable. You don't even have to be a digger to know that this show is so full of condensed monkey excrement that it almost oozes out of your TV screen.

 I tuned in for about half an episode, just so nobody can say "Don't knock it until you see it". Well, now I can knock the hell out of it. I used to think there was nothing lower than a scuzzbucket who would dig strictly for money and with no regard for anything else. Ol' Ric proved me wrong- a scuzzbucket FAKING digs for profits and publicity takes the cake [:'(]  ~Jim


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## Penn Digger (May 17, 2012)

Saw a news clip on AOL news today about Fat Head finding a shiny slave ID tag in a mound of dirt.  Spotted it a ways away from the pile and it was laying right on top all shiny.  Even the news host who did the clip was making fun of him.  The headline for the clip was even sarcastic.  What a tool.

 PD


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## AntiqueMeds (May 17, 2012)

makes sense , slave tags are the poster children of the fake relics industry.
 they and bighead were bound to meet up sooner or later.
 Fake relics for a fake show. boom baby!!


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## carobran (May 17, 2012)

And then he got all nostalgic and "couldn't even think about the money". But he sure could ask $5,000 in monopoly money later on.. Guess he had to be politically correct.  And by the time he got through saying "Wait a minute! Wait a minte!" when they found the tag 10 times or so I'd waited 2 minutes.[8|] I'd also ,like to know how he "knew" those were the "slave quarters"? A large plantation would have had no telling how many out buildings. But I think the most laughable part was the little age timeline they gave for the trash pit.

 "6"-50 yrs.
 12" - 100 yrs
 18" - 200 years

 A one hundred year age jump in 6"? Not likely. And a trash pit 200 years old being a foot and a half deep. Well.............[8|]


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## OsiaBoyce (May 18, 2012)

I wanted to watch it, I had seen the previews about the Aiken dig [ that means those clowns drove right past my house]. I live 15 miles from Aiken and in the time of 'slave tags' none would have been in or on an Aiken plantation. Why? Because at the time Aiken was so small and slave tags were only used in the larger urban area such as Charleston-Columbia-Augusta and Savannah.....in 53 years I've seen three in various collections, and all were from Charleston. Those things are off the scale rare.....I hate I missed that idiot, maybe I'll get it on the repeat.

 Oh yea, how much was it worth and where did he take it?


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## carobran (May 18, 2012)

I've forgotten where he took it but he was asking $5,000 for the tag,a broad axe blade,a knife with a lead handle and maybe a couple other things. He took $4,000. The re-run of that one should come on at 10:30 Wednesday night your time.


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## RICKJJ59W (May 18, 2012)

I missed it to,I couldn't stay awake. I am sure I'll see that saliva spraying no neck FAThead again.


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## Penn Digger (May 19, 2012)

You make me laugh Rick!

 PD


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