# OUR RAREST / FAVORITE ACLs



## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

I'm really excited about this new thread and sincerely hope it will generate some genuine interest. It is sort of a spin-off of the "Earliest ACLs" but with a little twist. This time I am hoping to see your rarest and favorite acls. But the dates of the bottles aren't the focus here. It can be any acl from any era just so long as you consider it to be rare and of special interest. Hopefully this will establish an entirely new chapter involving the research and history of acl soda bottles. However, this could turn out to be a little tricky ... and here's why. Your rarest acl bottle may not necessarily be you favorite, and vice-versa; your favorite may not be your rarest. So what I am truly hoping to see here are bottles that fall into both categories. But the real tricky part will be avoiding duplications. For example: If more than one member selects the famed "Birdie" acl as their all-time rarest favorite, then that would eliminate it from being posted by another member. Thus I suggest posting your next rarest/favorite and so on. I hope I'm making some sense here and that all will find this thread both enjoyable and helpful. And please post only those bottles from your personal collections as oppossed to those from books, etc. 

 Please note this is not a contest but rather a sharing experience to see what's out there; and also to see what excites you personally as a collector regarding those oh-so-interesting acls from yesteryear. Let's have fun with this and please not challenge each other regarding rarity. A newbie's acl Coca Cola from 1959 may not seem rare to others, but it may be as good as it gets for that particular member. In the end we should have a comprehensive collection of some really cool bottles ... and that is what it's all about, right?  []

                                       Thanks in advance to all who participate ... 

                  I will start things off with my personal rarest favorite from my collection.

                          Tom Tucker - 1940s - Pittsburgh, PA. - Glenshaw Glass Co. 

 {Front Label}  There are two variations of this bottle ... Both images to follow on a seperate page.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

{Back Label}


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

{Both Variations}  Estimated Values $100.00 + ?  Listed as VR


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

*P*ost *S*cript ~

 Regarding values ... It is entirely up to the individual. But I honestly believe it would help to at least post an "approximate" value for future reference. Plus it will eliminate replies from others requesting the value for this or that bottle. You decide. []

 Thanks again,

 SODAPOPBOB


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## nksave40 (Aug 6, 2010)

I hate to duplicate already but my personal favorite and rarest from my collection wich i just picked up at an estate sale last weekend is also my tom tucker bottle.


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## fishnuts (Aug 6, 2010)

*I was really excited about providing some input here...and showing off* *some bottles from the display
 but the files were too big.  I'll have to figure that out later, I guess.  Input is more important.
 I was going to show the red Rocket along with the really rare blue Rocket from Ohio.  They are favorites of mine.
 I was going to show some that I consider rare, but of course, your input can knock that aside.  The four in the photo would have  Sally Ann,  Stone Fort...3 color,  Brown Boy, and an Oklahoma High Dive (just like the all white, but r/w).   Not too many in collections, so please share if you know otherwise.

 Lastly, I would've shown off my 1943 blue/white Mellow Moon from Paragould, AR...no more than a handful known.  More importantly are the three 12 oz. Moody's from  Little Rock, all from 1941.  Moody's  MadeRite orange/black...perhaps five or six know between the two varieties.  Moody's Shot O' Grape, red/white... two others known to me.  And,  Moody's Root Beer red/white...only one other known to me.

 And add Arkansas's Uncle Luke as rare...I know of one on-grade example and three nice off-grades.
 And the five or six known Arkansas bottles that I still never seen..@%#!*...drat!

 Thanks for having me!
 Grant 
*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

nksave40 ~

 You did real good!  Your's is the 'White' background variation ... mine has the 'Black' background.

 Good job!  We should start a "Tom Tucker" club. Of course, my bottle is rarer than yours. Lol [] Just kidding ... According to the book they are both considered Very Rare. 

 Thanks,

 SPB


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

fishnuts ~

 Welcome to the forum. Your bottles sound extremely cool. Please try and post some photos. If you go back to your photo gallery and reduce them to about 600/640 they should work just fine. Let us know if you need any additional help. You've come to the right place for that!  []

 Thanks,

 SPB


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## JayBeck (Aug 6, 2010)

I have lived near Lake Erie most of my life so that certainly has an influence but this is just an awesome bottle and extremely rare. It is strange that this Lake Erie Bottling Co was in Canton, Ohio which is not very close to Lake Erie.


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## nksave40 (Aug 6, 2010)

sodapopbob
 I was verry excited when i found this bottle it was just kinda hidden on a table in the basement had no price on it so i took it to the lady and she said give me a buck for it so that is good news that it could be worth that much.


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## digger mcdirt (Aug 6, 2010)

Here's my rarest I think it goes for $1000 +  The Birdie. The King Cotton is rare I can get $150 or so on a mint one and the Kick with the Hillbilly going in the air I have only had 2 of. I was offered $175 for it but I thought it might be impossible to get another mint one . bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

nksave46 ~

 I should have pointed this out on the title page, and address it now so there will be no confusion hereafter ... but we (you and I and everyone) may need to be reminded there are variations upon variations of some bottles ... meaning that a "Tom Tucker" from 1950 would not be as rare/valuable as one from 1938. Which is not to say that either of our's is not rare and valuable, (and I honestly believe they are) but rather as a reminder to emphasize this distinction. In other words; the main thing here is the sharing of our favorite acls that are the rarest in our own particular collections, and hopefully are equally as rare on a overall basis. So if the case had been that my "Tom Tucker" was a 1950 example and only worth, say $25.00, this would not demean it whatsoever as it is still personal favorite and personal rarest. Rarity does not always translate into a higher value. But demand does! For example: There may be only ten 1938 "Tom Tucker's" out there, which are extemely rare, but if no one is interested in purchasing them, they would be difficult to sell for even $10.00. But if you take a bottle like a certain Mt. Dew bottle that there are hundreds of, but have ten thousand collectors that just have to have one, then they will easily go for in the hundreds of dollars. 

 I hope I explained this so called Supply/Demand phenomenon correctly, and even if I didn't I truly hope you get my point. I love your 'White' variation of the "Tom Tucker" and under different circumstances would gladly pay top dollar for it! And I want to apologize for sometimes sounding like a dictionary ... but I guess that's just how my goofy brain works these days.  []

                Thank you so much for sharing.  And please, everyone, keep 'em comming!

                                                                       SPB


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## OsiaBoyce (Aug 6, 2010)

I don't know about rare, but this is the only blue one I've seen.


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## OsiaBoyce (Aug 6, 2010)

But................................everybody likes picture lables.

 I like this one. There is a 7oz. B/W Clear


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

Digger ~

 I just knew you'd be the one to post the 'Birdie' bottle first. One of these days I'm gonna have me on of them dudes, (or dudettes, whichever the case may be). I remember when you first aquired it and how jealous I was. Well, I'm over that now and am truly honored by you presence here.

 Thank you for sharing ... and even though this is not a competition, I have to say you truly set the bar ... so far anyway!  Lol []

 SPB


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## OsiaBoyce (Aug 6, 2010)

Then we all seen a ton of the embossed ones. The last two bottlers put these out for one year,1942. You don't see these either of these two often.

  The other three look alikes just happen to be in the picture.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 6, 2010)

Osia ~

 Any chance of a closeup of the 'Ronderbilt Special' (I think that's what it says) label? I'm curious. By the way ... nice dog!  []

 SPB


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## OsiaBoyce (Aug 6, 2010)

I don't know how rare these are either, but this would be my most desirable [ as far as the hobby goes] I have.

  There's a 7oz. green bottle I'm looking for too.


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## madman (Aug 6, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: OsiaBoyce
> 
> I don't know how rare these are either, but this would be my most desirable [ as far as the hobby goes] I have.
> 
> There's a 7oz. green bottle I'm looking for too.


 hey pat nice bottle! as well as the others shown was that made by brown belle?


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## madman (Aug 6, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: JayBeck
> 
> I have lived near Lake Erie most of my life so that certainly has an influence but this is just an awesome bottle and extremely rare. It is strange that this Lake Erie Bottling Co was in Canton, Ohio which is not very close to Lake Erie.


 hey jay awsome!


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## Nickevlau (Aug 6, 2010)

These are a few of my favorite/rare 
 Col. Albert Lea not listed at Nostalgiaville
 Zip variant not listed
 Delaware punch made in Trinidad Co, city not listed.
 The rest just happen to be in the picture.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

Gotta go with the Tazewell Orange. Local brand and a very small town bottler. 






 It doesn't hurt that this is my favorite acl of all time, great design, local history, very nice.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

However, this one is actually a tougher to find bottle. From the Nesbitt-Fleenor Bottling Company is this 1941 Fleenors Fine Flavors. I love the black and white acl, and being a local brand from a company that lasted about three years, its pretty tough.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

Another local brand, Pocahontas Beverages from Falls Mills, VA. Great acl paired with interesting embossed design makes for a nice bottle. 1953


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

Another interesting Black and Orange local brand is this 1948 Sun Rise Beverages bottle. The later red and white (or blue and white) rooster bottles are nice, but this one takes the cake for interesting. Maybe I have a thing for orange and black acls, of course I do. This company would also produce several other interesting and exclusive acls.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

Of course there is also the true green Lonesome Pine acl. Take an already nice acl design and add it to a green bottle, use it at only one company for a short period of time, and vola you have a very interesting and sought after bottle. The true green Lonesome Pine acl from the literal "hole in the road" town of Vansant, VA is the best of all the Lonesome Pine acls, including the earlier 7oz versions. This was one of my holy grails for a long time, and finally I snagged one.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

As for rare, you don't get much rarer than the Sunny Isles from Marion, VA (unless you have one from Johnson City, Tenn.), They picked up the brand right before World War II and spent the rest of the war trying to get rid of the bottles, even with the correspondence with Owens Illinois trying to get rid of these bottles I still don't know what happened to the greater majority of them. The last word from Owens to Wythe Hull was to destroy them, given the relative rarity of this bottle is most likely what he did.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 7, 2010)

I feel like a kid in a candy store. If someone said I could have any bottle shown so far I honestly can't say which one it would be ... it's like the "who's who" of acls. But one thing I do know is that my collection pales in comparison to many of the others. I guess that's one reason I am so passionate about soda bottle collecting ... and even though I rarely have a bad day, when I do I can always take one of my bottles down from it's place on the shelf, especially the ones I recall from childhood, and reflect back on the times when my buddies and I would pay a visit to Jack's Market in the small town where I grew up and have ourselves an ice cold bottle of Bubble Up, Mt. Dew, or my favorite flavor of all time, Deleware Punch, which I haven't had since I was about fifteen years old and can just barely recall what it taste like, other than I remember it was like nectar from the gods. Man, those were the days!

 Thanks to everyone for sharing you favorite and rare acls, and I hope more are to follow because I have a feeling I am not the only one enjoying this collection of the best of the best. And about the only way it could get any better is to see a     ..........?..........     But I'm sure one will turn up eventually.

 SPBOB []


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## digger mcdirt (Aug 7, 2010)

Here's some very rare ACL's All are from West Tn or North Miss . Most are almost impossible to get as they were so short lived. The Hub lasted only a few Months the Botl -O I have never seen another. The Jackson's King Cotton lasted 1 year. They may not be the Prettiest but they are ext rare. dm


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## digger mcdirt (Aug 7, 2010)

Try to find 4 different Chisca's all of these are Different. I am missing two colors of them there were 6 . These are impossible to get or almost. Last 2 or 3 I saw the price was just so high I passed. I see about 1 a year in the real world. Now and then one is on FEE BAY but it is always one I have or one that goes out of sight. dm


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## digger mcdirt (Aug 7, 2010)

Not many ACL's but here is my rarest Soda's period ! These are amber and aqua Cokes all from Tenn and Miss I have dug. There are 100 or so of every type. Also are some very rare Tenn Cobalt Blob and Hutch Soda's and some 1 of a kind Soda's. I dug everything in here but the ACL's and I found the amber 7 ups with ACL in a local Attic they are from Nashville. My Cokes in here are all top shelf I have a few cases of lesser ones but these are the top shelf locked up ones.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 7, 2010)

Nickevlau ~

 Cool bottles. Did you know there is a full three page article about Colonel Albert Lea in the "Collecting ACL Soda Bottles" book? If you have never seen it and would like to check it out I would be happy to copy and post it on a separate thread. Just say the word and consider it done.

 Morb ~

 I went back at least three times to admire your bottles; especially the "Sunny Isles." There is something about it that makes me wish I could reach into my desk-top and call it my own. Of course I would eventually give it back in about thirty years or so.

 Digger ~

 Regarding your "1 of a kind sodas" ... any chance one of them is an acl that you could single out, show a photo of, and tell us a little more about? With so many thousands of different brands over the years it's not surprising that some of them slipped through the cracks only to end up as being "The Last of the Mohican's."  I think everyone would enjoy hearing the story about one of them.

 Thanks to all.

 SPBOB  < my new signature. []


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 7, 2010)

Nickevlau ~

 I don't mean to assume that you don't have a copy of the ACL book I mentioned in my last post, as you may very well have it and are familiar with the Colonel Albert Lea article. But as I have the time this morning (with nothing better to do) I have decided to go ahead and create the thread I alluded to. It will take a few minutes to prepare, but will be available shortly under an obvious title. Hopefully others will find it to be of interest as well.

 SPBOB


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## fishnuts (Aug 7, 2010)

*Still not worked out the photo thing so I'm lining up neighbor to help downsize my shots so I can post.  But, inquiring minds want to know...so:

digger: Is there a King Cotton picture bottle from Jackson?  I've heard yes, but...
 The kicked hillbilly Kick is a hoot and new to my eyes.
 Is one of your  r/w Chiscas from Booneville, AR.  Mine and one other is all I know of.
 And the green Bott-L O is from where?  Never seen that one out of Camden, AR!

osiaboyce: Blue Dub-LValue and Classic City are both rare enough that I haven't seen them.  The Dub is from where, please?   And you say there is a green glass Brown Boy?  Really?  Tell me more...

morbious: The Taz is fabulous and has been on my wanted-list since I had a wanted-list.  The Fleeners is too cool...so it'll go on the wanted...
 I have a Sunny Isles, also WWII vintage from Paragould, AR (I think the Dr. Pepper plant)and to my knowledge is only one known.

 Awesome to see bottles for the first time.
 Please keep it up guys!

 G


*


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## OsiaBoyce (Aug 7, 2010)

Here Bob, it's Vanderbilt as in the Vanderbilts > Biltmore > Ashville

 The 7oz. is blue and white on clear glass.

http://www.biltmore.com/landing/10_summer_families.asp?pid=Google

 Mike the Brown Boy was bottled by Brown Boy Bottling in down town Atlanta around 1953. A co. that was owned by two black men. A college now stands on the site. I'm the 4th owner of this bottle that I know about.

 Nuts, yes there is a 7oz. in green glass. Never seen one, just a picture and have spoke  to people who have seen em'. The blue Dub-L-Valu is from Summerton, S.C.. It's high on the to get list..........just like the amber New Yorker, from Atlanta too.


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## OsiaBoyce (Aug 7, 2010)

I like this one too.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 7, 2010)

Osia ~

 Thanks. The bottles are just so-so ... but that house/castle you live in is fantastic! I didn't realize we were dealing with Royalty here.  Ha-ha ... Lol ... and totally kidding! The bottles are as cool as it gets! (Seriously). Plus I just realized something that I never gave much thought to before. It appears the eastern and southern parts of the United States literally steep in soda beverage history. I can't believe the number of patriotic related brands involving the Civil War and other historic events and people. As opposed to here in the west where history seems to be only what you find in textbooks. Oh sure, we had the gold rush and all of that ... but where are all of those 'good-as-gold' soda bottles like the ones you and others have posted?  Heck ... if I keep this up I will work myself right into another theme. We'll call it "The Family Tree of Soda Bottle Collecting." The only thing is; my collection on that so called family tree will be like the 'still green' oranges shown in the attached photo. (Which I took just today, with the golf ball size oranges ready for picking around Christmastime).

 Thanks again,

 "ORANGE" SODA POP BOB  []


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  OsiaBoyce
> 
> Here Bob, it's Vanderbilt as in the Vanderbilts > Biltmore > Ashville
> 
> ...


 
 Well there's one I'm going to have to keep my eyes out for. Simi-local, and GREEN, must have green bottle. Nice.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 8, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  fishnuts*
> 
> morbious: The Taz is fabulous and has been on my wanted-list since I had a wanted-list.  The Fleeners is too cool...so it'll go on the wanted...
> I have a Sunny Isles, also WWII vintage from Paragould, AR (I think the Dr. Pepper plant)and to my knowledge is only one known.
> *


 
 The Tazewell Orange is my favorite local bottle, and possibly my favorite bottle period. Good luck on the Fleenor's, you thought the Tazwell Orange was hard, I've only seen a couple of the Fleenor's as compared to at least nine or ten Tazzs. I'm seeing that a lot with the early 1940's Sunny Isles, the war really hit this company hard, and they lost a lot of franchises due to it. Many never to return, like Marion, VA and Johnson City, Tenn. While there are some that actually did well. The brand did continue, because there are bottles from the Falls Mills, VA Nesbitts Bottling Company dated 1948, but I doubt they got much further than that.


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## fishnuts (Aug 8, 2010)

*Finally figured that it was a camera set-up thing and not a computer thing. Now, if I can get the upload part rightly done...here are some of the hard-to-find to rare Arky bottles.  One shows the three Moody's...Made Right Orange, Root Beet and Shot O Grape...all 1941s, Little Rock, AR.  Then showing the Booneville, AR Chisca, 1939...Electric from El Dorado 1949, the Sunny Isles and a 1941 Mellow Moon, both from Paragould, AR*


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## fishnuts (Aug 8, 2010)

...and the Moody's


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 8, 2010)

fishnuts ~

 I just happened to be online myself. Good job! And well worth waiting for. I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and say that 'Mellow Moon Soda' is going to draw some real attention. Not to take away from the others, mind you, but the MMS jumped out at me personally like a bolt of lightning. Wait a minute ... it's the 'Electric Beverages' that has the lightning bolts. Hmmm ... now I can't make up my mind which one I like best. So I guess I like'em all !  []

 Thanks,

 SPBOB


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## fishnuts (Aug 8, 2010)

*One of the Holy Grails for Arky bottle collectors.  Enjoy!*


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 8, 2010)

Just yesterday I re-researched the rather plain looking 'Perfect Host' acl shown below and was excited to discover it is older than I previously thought ... making it not only my new rarest bottle, but also my new favorite. I posted it on another thread a while back, but incorrectly dated it as being 1946. Well, now I've discovered it is a 1936 bottle ... also making it one of the top-ten earliest acls currently known. Here's how it all came about :  It's an Owens-Illinois bottle with the superimpossed 'O' over a 'Diamond'  but definitely does not have an 'I' in the center. Nor does it have a *. *dot on either side of the symbol. So if my latest research serves me correctly (and I believe it does) then it is without question a 1936 acl. And as most of us already know, the acl process wasn't introduced until 1934. And even though it is a rather blase' looking label, it definitely falls into my own personal "Hall of Fame" of bottles. Additionally I discovered it is from the small desert community of Yuma, Arizona, which is directly on the Colorado river border separating California and Arizona.

 I found it in the brush about a year ago along an old mountain highway near the historic mining town of Julian, California. And what makes these so called 'roadside' bottles so special to me is the fact that most if not all of them were thrown from automobiles. This has always intrigued me because I find something adventurous and somewhat romantic about bottles thrown from cars, and can't help but wonder about the circumstances involving their disposal. A lot of maybe's come to mind like ... maybe it was in the car of a family on vacation and was underfoot on the floorboard and tossed out. Or maybe it was disgarded by someone moving from one state to another, and so on and so on. This is no to say that 'dump' bottles are not just as interestng, but rather that it blows my mind to think how easily a 'tossed-fom-a-car' bottle could get broken ... but yet survived to lay there along the road for (in this case) seventy-four years just waiting for little ol' me to come along and find it. I also wonder about all of the long lonely nights and hot summer days it laid there wishing and hoping someone would rescue it from it's misery and give it a new home. And even though this may sound like I am giving 'life' to a lifeless object, it is this type of romanticizing that makes me so passionate about the hobby of soda bottle collecting. I hope my little story and simple bottle connect to make me a perfect host on this thread ... and thank each and everyone for your wonderful contributions.

 Sincerely,

 SPBOB

 1936 'Perfect Host' acl


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## fishnuts (Aug 8, 2010)

Dating the bottle by a dot, Bob?

 I had an old gentleman at a Colliersville show some years ago tell me otherwise.  He stopped at my table  because i happen to have the one Convention bottle he needed for his set.  He had made those bottles during his work at Owens-Illinois.  Retired at the time, he told several stories and pointed to several other bottles that had run on 'his' line over the years.  He picked one up to say that it was one of the first he had made when he began there after returning from the Army. I mentioned the date and he corrected me by telling me that the position of the dot by a single digit doesn't indicate date, but that it indicates the mold slot in which the bottle was cast...either mold position one, or two.  If/when they saw miscast bottles, the lineman could tell which mold was making the bad bottles and correct it...rather than flailing about trying to figure where bad casts were being poured.  
 Well, that was really big news for me, because I had learned otherwise...that it was an indicator for dating.  Imagine my shock!  Immediately I went and told several collectors of note, all of whom were as astounded by that information as I.

 So there, thought I should share.  I honestly still don't know what to think, because that old saw has been ingrained in me too. However I no longer can reliably use that as a dating mechanism.  I have the first hand word of a man that worked on the line for 40 years telling me otherwise.

 Anyone available to refute what he told me?   Inquiring minds...


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 8, 2010)

fishnuts ~

 I agree the dating of early Owens-Illinois acls is more than a little controversial. But surely by now someone has a definitive answer to this. Which I took into account when re-researching the subject. So unless someone has more indisputable proof than I was able to come up with in my advanced search, I'm still leaning toward a 1936 date on my particular bottle. And please bare in mind that my 'Perfect Host' bottle does not have a dot of any kind on either side of what is clearly a single digit 6 on the right side of the symbol.

 For the time being I will remain completely open minded regarding this, with the hope it can be cleared up shortly. I am confident that someone among us has the answer. Below is from my acl book that hopefully will get the ball rolling on this. But other than this I will refrain from posting the various other website links that helped me to my arrive at my current conclusion. And please do not think of this as any form of challenge, as I would never do that and still consider myself more of a novice on this subject than any kind of expert. My only interest here is with the facts ... and you could very well be right. Thank you so much for the insight, and hopefully for everyone concerned we will eventually arrive at the correct conclusion once and for all.

 Repectfully,

 BOB

 From acl book ... and only a small part of my recent research.


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## fishnuts (Aug 8, 2010)

Oh, Bob!
 Please don't misinterpret my comment.  I, too, believe that this bottle is from the thirties...it has all the earmarks of that vintage:  looks like a deco bottle, simple label,  sort of a crude job, one color, poor paint and probably heavier glass, etc.  I agree with all that.  And I understand as well as I can the dating codes on O-I glass.
 I might have misread your original, but I 'thot' you were determining the decade of the bottle by a glass dot on one side or the other of the right hand digit.  If you were, then I wanted you to hear the story that was shared with me.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 8, 2010)

fishnuts ~

 I too wish to clarify my comments. The gentleman who told you the dots had no connection to dating should know what he's talking about, especially if he claims to have worked for O-I at some point. But other than his personal comments, everything I was able to find on the subject, including the opinions of some of the countries most acknowledged reseachers on the subject, refute this. So for the time being I remain utterly confused until something more substantial presents itself. I also remain ...

 Respectfully yours,

 SPBOB

 By the way ... I love your Uncle Luke's bottle! Maybe he knows the answer? 

 P.S. ~  Help! I hate being confused ... my brain goes into a tail-spin when that happens!  Lol   [:-]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 8, 2010)

I realize what's is in question here is not whether or not my Perfect Host bottle has a dot or not, but rather if a dot of any kind has anything to do with dating?  But I think we all agree on one thing. Which is that when Owens-Illionois started using the double-digit code, as in; 46, 56, etc; there is no question these represented 46 = 1946 .. 56 = 1956, and so on. Which can't help but make one wonder why they would put a date code to the right of the symbol later, but not use this same location for their earlier bottles? (More questions - few answers). Anyway, while the jury is out I thought I would share the scanned image below. I underlined the word 'scanned' for emphasis because no matter what exposure I tried with my digital camera I was unable to capture a clear picture. So it dawned on me to try my scanner. I was pleasantly surprised that it worked pretty good. But I have to tell you, this was the result of at least twenty attempts, and had to move and twist the bottle in various ways to get it to work just right. The image below being the best of the twenty. As you can see the 6 is a single digit and there is no dot. (What appears to be a dot to the left of the 6 is the 'point' on the diamond symbol). Later I am going to experiment with my scanner again for copying images of bottles. I like the ability to control it a little better and not have to worry about outside lighting, etc. Try it! You might like it.

 Anyway, this concludes my current focus on my Perfect Host bottle. I will wait for the jury to return before making further comment. I just hope someone has the answer to all of this, as I would really like to put this matter to rest once and for all. And not just for myself either, but for the benifit of all acl soda bottle collectors everywhere. 

 Thanks again,

 SPBOB

 Some portions of the embossing are 'melted' away. But no indication of this occurring to a dot.


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## T D (Aug 8, 2010)

> One of the Holy Grails for Arky bottle collectors.  Enjoy!


 



 I'm speachless...Wow, never seen the Uncle Luke's


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## morbious_fod (Aug 9, 2010)

All I know is that the dot has worked out correctly for me in the past, and they don't show up on the 1930's bottles, but have shown up on verifiable period bottles (those bottles that I can correctly verify were only made during a certain period). Good examples being from Kingsport, Tenn. where only one bottler lasted more than five years at any one given time. The dot holds true as indicating a 1940's bottle. The dot most likely had a dual purpose, being the one of the lowest embossing points on the bottom of these bottles, it would be the canary in the coal mine for mold issues, being as he was most likely some type of inspector of the bottles, he most likely didn't realize that it had another purpose as well.

 If I wasn't researching and know the bottlers who used these bottles and when they used them from other sources, then I would buy that it isn't a date indicator; however, experience has proven otherwise. Whether or not they were knowingly used for that purpose, they ended up being only on the 1940's bottles. The practice was gone by the double digit era of the the 1950's, and not re-instated for the single digit style with the redesigned logo of the late 1950's onward. The mold indicator explanation loses some validity due to the question of why did they stop using it? Then there is the Duraglas embossing.

 Now find a person who worked at Chattanooga Glass and find out how they were dating those stinking things by the 1930's. Please, they are driving me nuts! LOL!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 9, 2010)

> The dot holds true as indicating a 1940's bottle.


 
 Morb ~  (Thank you for your insightful and helpful comments).

 I certainly don't want to put you on the dot, er ... I mean 'spot,' but unless someone comes along shortly to refute your most articulate explaination, I will from this point forward base my personal research and findings regarding the dating of Owens-Illinois bottles on your claims. What impresses me most is the fact that not once did you use the term "my opinion." But rather that your conclusions were based entirely on the results of extensive research. And with the same measure of sincerety I wish to apologize to everyone in general, and fishnuts in particular if at any point I came across as seeming arrogant or challenging. That is not my intent now, nor will it ever be in the future. So without further ado I would like to enter my 'Perfect Host' bottle as a genuine example of one of the earliest acls known (and confirmed unless proven otherwise) and include it in my thread "Earliest ACLs." And I do so with both humility and respect for all members who find the dating and classifacation of early acls a viable and interesting aspect to the ever expanding hobby of collecting. In closing I also wish to apologize for sounding like a dictionary at times. But it just so happens that I am a stickler for both accuracy in dictation as well as accuracy in soda bottle research. Even if at times I can't spell worth a hoot ... but that, my friends, is the topic of another discussion. []

 Respectfully,

 Bob


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 9, 2010)

Morb ~

 I realize you probably don't need lil'o me to assist you in your ongoing research involving the dating of early Chattanooga Glass Company bottles. I'm sure anything I came up with would be something you are familiar with anyway. However, since you were so kind in helping me/us with the Owens-Illinois stuff I figured the least I could do was take a look anyway. But the results of my search wound up presenting more questions than answers. So with this in mind I am curious to know a couple of things. I saw references pertaining to a 'C' in a circle, which claimed to start around 1927. Okay fine. And other references touched on certain numbers/letters/etc., with some of them being underlined, and others not underlined. So now you have really sparked my curiousity, and I am genuinely interested in knowing which, if not both, of these marks you are most interested in. I belive the underlined/not underlined marks predate the 1927 'C' in a circle. Anyway, if I am making sense here at all, I was hoping you could shed a little more light on all of this as a tool for the rest of us in the future who may stumble onto the same problems. But please don't feel obligated in any way to post a super-detailed explaination, but rather just some of the basics. Who knows, you may touch on something that will turn a light on with others and possibly lead to something more substantial. I'm just trying to help, and hope you will forgive my clumsy attempt to make sense of it all. If nothing else, at least I know how to spell Chattanooga now.  Lol

 Thanks,

 SPBOB [8|]


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## fishnuts (Aug 9, 2010)

This is the rear of the  Paragould, AR *Sunny Isles* that I mentioned.
 Sandwiched between  a no-city *Steamboat*...but I pretend it's from Forrest City.
 And a pretty HTF *Town Hall * from Little Rock.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 9, 2010)

fishnuts ~

 I just gotta ask. That was just your 16th post ... which I know doesn't mean you just started collecting. Obviously you've been at it for some time. But here you show up outta nowhere with some of the coolest bottles I've ever seen. Seriously!

                                Where have you been this whole time? Please tell us more.

 As for myself ... I joined in February of this year. Been collecting off and on for about 30 years. And found my way to A-B.net from the recommendation of a mutual collector who was on another chat forum we both participated in. That other website was kind of boring, (mostly Civil War relics, etc.) so I pulled up roots and moved my camp here. As newscaster Bill O'Reilly says ... "What say you?"

 Thanks,

 SPBOB


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## madman (Aug 9, 2010)

wow killer bottles! love the owens info also  my home town toledo ohio!


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## morbious_fod (Aug 10, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  SODAPOPBOB
> 
> Morb ~
> 
> ...


 
 There has to be some reason those numbers show up on these bottles, but I have a feel they are some kind of code, just needs cracking. Good luck.


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## fishnuts (Aug 10, 2010)

*Where have I been?
*Before finding/joining here I have been collecting objects of one type or another for nearly forty years as an adult.  Comic books and original art, depression glass, art pottery, beer cans, baseball cards, records, stamps, movie posters are part of the trip I've taken myself on.  I built a 'world-class' can collection of on-grade exotics...sold off over the past few years, times being what they are.  
 I really enjoy items that display rather than stuff you hide away in binders and book cases.  Sodas are ideal for that with their varied colors and shapes.  Non collectors really get-off on them, too.

 Added very few sodas to the display over the last few years...again, the times didn't allow me that luxury. Now I feel as if I'm on a binge...a show in May and another in June, road trip next week thru Mid-Central states and lots of cheaply had goodies on ebay!

 I like exotic picture labels, southern or southern themed bottles esp. Arkansas, airplanes, bottle gals, same as many others do.  Sadly, I'm really drawn to $$$ bottles...lol.  

 I like how 'unknown' this field is.  Example: Everyone know of the Tulia, TX Hornet black/yellow great graphics...10oz.  This year at Tulsa there appeared a 7 oz. version!  No one had ever seen it before, including collectors doing this much longer than I.  A complete surprise to everyone.  Not only that...there were three!...from three different vendors!  Amazing!  One on ebay right now, even.  How could this have stayed secret so long, then  pop into our world?  It's just weird...but I love it.
 Apologies for the ramble, eh.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 10, 2010)

fishnuts ~

 Thanks. And no apologies necessary. Besides, everyone knows I'm the king of ramblers. I'm just thankful no one yells at me when I get off topic like this on occasion. I for one enjoy hearing about the interest and exploits of other collectors. In fact, I have even considered starting another thread one of these days on that very subject. I'll call it something like ... "Brief Background Biographies." But I will likely wait on that one until I have earned my stripes as a member, and feel comfortable enough to get into all of that.

 Anyway, so as not to ramble too much and get back on topic, here's another one of my favorite / rare bottles that I found a couple of years ago in the brush along an old country highway. I really dig the image of the bum with a cigar stub dangling from his lips. I bet they couldn't get away with that sort of thing nowadays.

 Thanks again,

 SPBOB

 Bum's root beer - 1941 - Los Angeles, Ca. - 8 oz.


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## surfaceone (Aug 29, 2010)

Take care, Grant,


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## simpleman (Aug 31, 2010)

Here are few of my favorites from my collection.  I have no idea of rarity, age, value.   I welcome any comments or info.


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## fishnuts (Aug 31, 2010)

As a collector of  *Dixie* brands and southron label icons, please share the info on the previously never seen, and lovely Dixie Rush.  thx...very neat!


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## SODAPOPBOB (Aug 31, 2010)

Ditto on the Dixie ... and while you're at it, what's the story on that turquoise tinted (French ?) Pepsi Cola bottle?

 Thanks,

 SOPOBO  < that's sodapopbob in French []


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## morbious_fod (Aug 31, 2010)

My guess would be Canadian on the blue tint Pepsi. I love the green botl-o.


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## fanboy (Sep 1, 2010)

I believe that the aqua Pepsi is from France. I have never seen one from Canada that color; where I have from France.

 Chris


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## simpleman (Sep 1, 2010)

fanboy ~ SODAPOPBOB ~ morbious_fod ~ fishnuts
   I dont really research any of the bottles in my collection, so I dont have any info on the bottles. All I can tell you is that I pick them up here & there. Auctions / flea markets. The blue/green Pepsi, I believe is French(French on the back also), but from Canada or France, I dont know. I too like the Dixie Rush, definately one of my favorites & also one of the first bottles I ever bought along with the Southway pictured beside it. The Botl-o is a fairly recent find. The label is a bit worn but until I find an upgrade, I believe Im going to hold on to it.

 Take care.


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## simpleman (Sep 1, 2010)

Heres a couple more pics of the blue/green Pepsi & Dixie Rush. The pics dont do them justice, but its the best I can do with a simple digital camera.


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 1, 2010)

simpleman ~

 Do you know how to desipher the code info embossed on the bases of soda bottles?  If not, perhaps you could start with a good shot of the Pepsi base. I see you are handy with a camera, so it should come out legible.

 Thanks,

 SPBOB


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## simpleman (Sep 1, 2010)

SODAPOPBOB ~
   I do some-what know the codes on the bottom. I just dont have the time to research each bottle. The history is very interesting, just dont dont have the time presently.  Heres a pic of the blue/green Pepsi bottom. 
 21 5 cl   B  (STAR)  86   8


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 2, 2010)

simpleman ~

 Thanks. Great photo. But it is currently beyond me to figure out. Especially being either Canadian or French, which I am totally unfamiliar with. I just thought it was worth a shot. I'm pretty sure it's a 1950s or 60s bottle, but the only stretch of the imagination is to possibly connect the 5 and 8 for 1958.  And as for the cl ... c for Canada?  l for ?  (I'm lost in the Twilight Zone here ... sorry).  But I'm sure someone will make sense of it.

 Thanks,

 SPBOB


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## fanboy (Sep 2, 2010)

That Pepsi is from France. The "Vegetable Extracts" is one give away. The Canadian Pepsi's of the 50's would have Montreal or Outremont on them.

 The embossing on the bottom does not appear to be a Canadian bottle maker. The 21.5 cl; cl = centiliter. This bottle is 215 ml... Centiliter is another indicator it is European.

 As for date, I would guess the "86" is the date, so 1986. France was using 50's style Coke and Pepsi bottles into the 1990's.

 Chris


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 2, 2010)

> As for date, I would guess the "86" is the date, so 1986. France was using 50's style Coke and Pepsi bottles into the 1990's.


 
 fanboy ~

 As I said earlier, I'm still in a bit of a twilight zone here. But I am sincerely trying to make some sense of this French Pepsi bottle. In the quote above you said you were "guessing" regarding the date. And yet you sound fairly certain about France using 50s style Pepsi bottles during the 1990s. I am genuinely curious as to what you base this last part on? Is it a definitive fact that France used these 50s bottles in the 1990s, or an assumption of some sort?  I apologize if this sounds like I am doubting you, because this is certainly not the case. It's just that in my own research on the subject I can find absolutely nothing to support or confirm this. But I did find the copy/pasted reference below that mentions a similar bottle as being "vintage."  However, I must point out that when I went to the e-Bay listing that the below refers to, the listing for the "sea foam green" Pepsi bottle was no longer there. I suspect it closed or sold after this web reference was posted.


Pepsi items - Get great deals on *Bottles* items on eBay.com![/align]Vintage *PEPSI* soda *bottle* 10 oz ACL *Pepsi*-*Cola* deposit. Enlarge. 0 Bids, $0.99, 
 Time left:10h 27m *...* VINTAGE *FRENCH PEPSI BOTTLE* SEA FOAM GREEN. Enlarge *...*
 collectibles.shop.ebay.com/Bottles-Insulators-/29797/I.HTML?_nkw=Pepsi - 118k - Similar pages[/align] [/align]I wish to note again this is not a chellenge of any kind, but just an inquiring mind searching for answers.[/align] [/align]Thank you for your interest and participation in this subject. I hope I speak for others as well when I say it is truly appreciated.[/align] [/align]Respectfully,[/align] [/align]SPBOB[/align] [/align] [/align][/align]


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 2, 2010)

P.S. ~

                                                    I guess what I am asking ...

 Is it possible that the Pepsi bottle in question was a promotional/anniversary/throwback of some kind?

 Thanks again,

 SPBOB


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## morbious_fod (Sep 2, 2010)

No I think Fanboy is very much correct about the bottle being from France. Note the dent in the bottom of the bottle. I've never seen one located in that area before, so it is most likely not Canadian. It's not 1950's because that oval on the back of the neck had a similar logo to the 1966 Pepsi cola in Ayer's book which he claims is probably foreign. Being the only two digit number on the bottle I would have to concur with this being a 1986. If there is a 1966 foreign Pepsi like this then there is the possibility of a 1986. Maybe the French were smarter than us and kept the much more pleasant 1950's design.


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## Oklabottles (Sep 3, 2010)

I dont really have much of an ACL collection, but this is my favorite out of the ones I own, there are others that I dont have that I favon quite a bit, but out of mine this is my favorite its not old probalby from the 70's and I have no idea on rarity or value probably not much the bottle is from St. louis, Mo.


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## fanboy (Sep 3, 2010)

Regarding the Aqua Pepsi bottle...

 I was in France in 1990 and was amused to find that their Coke and Pepsi bottles were just like the Canadian/American bottles from the 1950's. I don't really collect Pepsi so I did not buy a Pepsi bottle; but I did buy a Coke bottle. The Coke is embossed very similar to the bottles from the 50's. The Pepsi's were like the one posted above (as I recall). The bottles were new; not reused since the 50's. 

 So I am using this experience and the base marking "86" to say it is most probable that the "86" is the date. It is unlikely to be a plant ID or a mold number. I believe it fits as a date for the bottle.

 I hope that is a little clearer, if there are questions, please ask...

 Chris


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## SODAPOPBOB (Sep 3, 2010)

oklabottles ~

 I really like your Big Boy bottle and found a listing showing one as being from St. Charles, MO., and available at least from 1968 thru 1976. And possibly before and/or after these dates.Valuewise it appears to be somewhat common in the midwest, but a true keeper irregardless. Portrait images are always popular with collectors. By the way, there should be a double-digit number on the base indicating the date it was made. And if it happened to be made by the Owens-Illinois Glass Co., the mark might look something like this ... 21 (I) 73 ... for 1973. Thanks for sharing.

 fanboy ~

 I stand corrected!  But, gee wilikers, why didn't you tell us you were in France back in 1990? I guess it was sort of an unintentional test that I failed miserably. My apologies. And who was it that suggested the French were "different?" No disrespect toward the French, but the whole thing strikes me as being a little odd ... but also cool in it's own sort of way.

 Buvez Pepsi and Coca Cola forever!  []

 Thanks again,

 SPBOB


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## Oklabottles (Sep 3, 2010)

Yes I have to correct that it was from St. Charles, Mo. the back says bottled by big boy bottling co. st. charles, mo. 63301, it is an owens-illinios bottle has the (I) mark has an S, 14, 75, and 102 thats why I said I thought it was from the 70s they may be common in the midwest but this is the only one i have ever seen, Ijust love the picture.


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## simpleman (Sep 7, 2010)

Hello everyone,
   Just responding to the comments & info regarding my blue/green Pepsi bottle. I have no idea if its from Canada or France. Could be either, since french is spoken at both. Its been years since Ive been to Canada & Ive never been to France. So your guess is as good as mine. It is thick heavy glass so that rules out a "throwback commemorative" I do believe, but the actual year. ???.  I bought it at a flea market along with the several other 1950's Pepsi bottles(all USA) & others(foreign?). Heres some pictures of the foreign Pepsi bottles. Maybe this will help, or then again it may add to the confusion.

 Take care~
 .
 .
 bottle #1 - 
 front- Pepsi-Cola   MARCA REG.
 back - MARCE REG.
 back near base - EL SALVADOR, C. A.
 embossed near base - 5 <symbol> 10
 bottom - no markings
 ounces - it doesnt indicate. The bottle is 9 1/2" tall X 2 1/4" at base.
 . 
 bottle #2 - 
 front - PEPSI   TRADE MARK REGISTERED   6.75 OZS.
 front near base - Bottled by Desnces & Geddes Ltd. Jamaica
 back - Pepsi-Cola   TRADE MARK REGISTERED
 bottom - There appears to be two small numbers or letters, but too faint to make out.
 .
 bottle #3 - 
 front - 12 FL. OZ.   PEPSI   MARQU'E DEPOSE'E
 front near base - CETT'E BOUTEILLE NE PEUT SERVIR   A AUCUN AUTRE PRODUIT
 back - 12 FL.OZ.   PEPSI-COLA   MARQU'E DEPOSE'E 
 back near base - AUX EXTRAITS NATURELS DE VEGETAUX   BOUTEILLE PROPRIET'E DE   BRASSERIE NATIONALE D'HAITI, S. A.
 bottom - no markings


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