# ebay soda scam.



## hemihampton (Jul 8, 2020)

Does anybody think this paper label is legite to this Bottle or belongs on this Bottle,









						Rare 1935 7-Up Glaser Bottling Co Paper Label  " Seattle, U.S.A. " Nice  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rare 1935 7-Up Glaser Bottling Co Paper Label  " Seattle, U.S.A. " Nice at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## RCO (Jul 9, 2020)

I don't know part of the reason I don't really collect paper label bottles , it looks reasonably similar to what one would expect a 7up bottle from that period to look like


----------



## bubbas dad (Jul 9, 2020)

i no very little about 7up history but it looks suspicious to me. the bottle looks like a blob top and the bottom looks like a wine bottle which  doesn't jive with the date given. just my 2 cents.


----------



## Troutmaster08 (Jul 9, 2020)

Something just looks off.


----------



## bottle-bud (Jul 9, 2020)

For that price, definitely now worth the risk. The label may be ok but the bottle is way off.


----------



## jarsnstuff (Jul 9, 2020)

I don't collect sodas so I know less than nothing about them.  That being said, doesn't this style of bottle take a cork?  1935 seems way late for a soda bottle to be sealed with a cork.  Just my 2 cents.  Well, maybe 1 cent...


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 9, 2020)

I wouldn't call it a scam because the seller states he is not sure if the label and bottle are original to one another, and that he bought it that way.  That is (sort of) a disclaimer that covers him.  However, I would call it a case where the seller did not do his homework, and should have.  A simple Google search would have told him that the bottle is obviously a LOT older than the label.  The Label has (C) 1935 By The Howdy Company - which dates it to 1935 or later.  The bottle is what we typically refer to as a Blob-top, and no matter which of the patents it might pertain to, it no doubt dates before the Crown finish patent that was granted to William Painter in 1892.  You can take your pick of finishes/closures from the ones on the link, with my best guess being that it is related to the 1885  F. B. Thatcher patent.  By 1935, those type of bottle finishes and closures had been outlawed because they were considered unsanitary.

The bottom line for me is ...

1.  The bottle is an original Blob type - and dates pre-1900
2. The label appears to be original - and dates 1935 or later
3. The bottle and label are NOT original to one another - someone attached the label to the bottle
4. Value of bottle/label as is  =  $20 max

http://www.sodasandbeers.com/SABBottleClosuresSoda.htm


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 9, 2020)

The earliest reference I can find for "Glaser 7-Up" is from 1934 - It appears they registered as Glaser Beverages Inc.  in 1936


*1934*






*1936



*


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 9, 2020)

Last but not least ...

1.  Paper label - eBay bottle
2. Similar paper label - Counterfeit?  - Hard to say for certain - Way too white for my liking 
3. Bottle cap - Date unknown


----------



## hemihampton (Jul 9, 2020)

Bob, The reason I posted & asked about this bottle is I had a Friend, new to Bottles send me a link to that ebay Auction & he seemed excited about it & thought it was rare. I told him pretty much what you said. it's a fake phony, legite label but on the wrong older bottle. I posted in here hoping he'd see a 2nd opinion & a 3rd & 4th opinion ect., confirming my suspicions. Thanks for the extra info. LEON.


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 9, 2020)

hemi

Thanks

Glad I could be of help -- even though I didn't realize it until now.  I'm still experimenting with ways to tell the difference between an original 7-Up paper label and a counterfeit one. The best method I have come up with so far is to examine the label with a magnifying loupe (30X Power or Larger) and see if it has what I call micro-dots.  The attached photo is a 7-Up paper label that I believe is original - Notice the dots in the stripes above the 7-Up logo.  I would question the originality of any 7-Up paper label that doesn't have those dots - especially if the dots are blurry - which might indicate it was scanned / photocopied


----------



## iggyworf (Jul 9, 2020)

Just seen this post and agree with everyone. Nice label, wrong bottle. I think I have seen this one before on ebay from that seller.


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 9, 2020)

Hey, Rich

I was just thinking about you and your ROOT 32 7-Up paper label bottle.  Could you please measure the label and let us know what you come up with.  I only have one original paper label 7-Up bottle and the label measures exactly 3 1/2" wide by 2 3/4" high.  However, I don't know if original labels came in various sizes or if they were all the same size.  They might have used a small label for smaller bottles, and a larger label for large bottles.  Knowing the size of a particular label might help determine if it is original or counterfeit.


----------



## hemihampton (Jul 9, 2020)

Bob, they use a similar method to determine Counterfeit Money. Nowadays they even print words & statement so small on the Paper Money or Bills that the Naked eye can't see. Take your Jewelers loupe & read the small print near outer edge ect., of your newer Bills to see what I mean. A printer can't duplicate this small print. LEON.


----------



## iggyworf (Jul 10, 2020)

SODABOB said:


> Hey, Rich
> 
> I was just thinking about you and your ROOT 32 7-Up paper label bottle.  Could you please measure the label and let us know what you come up with.  I only have one original paper label 7-Up bottle and the label measures exactly 3 1/2" wide by 2 3/4" high.  However, I don't know if original labels came in various sizes or if they were all the same size.  They might have used a small label for smaller bottles, and a larger label for large bottles.  Knowing the size of a particular label might help determine if it is original or counterfeit.



Yes Bob, been studying my bottle intently after reading this post. My 'Root 32 7up' label measures apprx. 3 1/2 wide by 2 1/4 high with many pixelated dots in the bands.


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 10, 2020)

hemi

Thanks - I did as you suggested and looked at some paper currency with a loupe - which revealed a lot of details not visible to the naked eye.  I did a little research and it appears the most common term used to describe the printing process that used dots is called HALFTONE PRINTING. Apparently the process was first introduced around 1870. 

30 dots per inch    ..............................   via typing process

Rich

Thanks for the measurements  - your label is almost identical in size to mine.  Examining paper labels with a loupe could turn out to be a good way to determine if a label is original or a counterfeit.  But I can just imagine an eBay seller's reaction if I were to ask them to look at the label with a loupe on a bottle they are selling.  They would probably think I was crazy -- or ask "what's a loupe?"  

Here are a couple of examples of Halftone Printing - sometimes called Ben Day or Offset Printing


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 10, 2020)

*SIZE?*


I'm finding 7-Up paper labels in different sizes -- But are they original or fake?


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 10, 2020)

Speaking of original dots ...


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 10, 2020)

Ben Day?


----------



## Timelypicken (Jul 10, 2020)

I found this seller who has several paper labels for sale. Was curious if you all think they are real or fake. I was thinking fake, but some are selling for hundreds.








						Items for sale by jkottocans | eBay
					

Shop eBay for great deals from jkottocans!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## hemihampton (Jul 10, 2020)

I know that Guy, he's a good Friend of Mine. Honest & Trustworthy.  He's mainly a Beer Can Collector. The reason some are getting Hundreds is because those are the ones that are Pre Pro. LEON.

p.s. they are real.


----------



## Pascagoula Paul (Jul 15, 2020)

Pictures of Glaser 7-Up bottles with labels





__





						Glaser Bottling Co seattle - Google Search
					





					www.google.com


----------



## glassdigger50 (Jul 15, 2020)

I have to with SODABOB on this one.


----------



## saratogadriver (Jul 15, 2020)

Definitely a marriage, and not one made in heaven.

Jim G


----------



## muskokajoe (Jul 15, 2020)

The label states 7oz the bottle is too large to be a 7oz bottle . If you have a 7oz bottle hold it in your hand and it will become very obvious. Secondly the bottle daily production numbers for a company of this size even if they are a licensed regional bottler in another state would mean that there should be plenty of these bottles out there for the finding in dumps with other 7up bottles (bottler dumps in particular). Also they would have had to change up their production line to 'hand filling' and source an obsolete bottle capping method that would be labor intensive and not practical in addition to finding someone to hand blow the glass bottles in 1935. If it was a commemorative bottle it would not have been a blob since they are not that old of a company. Most bottle collectors know that there are 'machine made' blobs out there dating early 1900s but this one is hand made.

The label can be faked quite easy. I have worked in the printing industry for over 40 years. I collect soda bottle labels and have been in contact with printers who have been in business for over 120 years. The paper used for labels likely would not have the 'sheen' this one appears to have (clay based coated stocks were available but expensive for a pop label and age differently). Also paper labels can be examined with a magnifying glass and observe the paper fibre density with a label from this period (which we can not determine by the pictures). The fonts used on the label can determined if they were produced with a modern typesetter. If it is a direct copy the over all legibility would be further degraded since it is a copy of a copy. It is a two color label and if they had it reprinted it would be too costly and he would not get his money back. The color chipping on the label down to the white surface is indicative of a copier, more porous uncoated paper stocks will bleed into the paper and cause the bleeding effect where the sharpness of the text will diminish and inks settles deeper into the paper itself (also compare the ink splatter under a magnifying glass). The ink surfaces will have a slightly raised effect with a sheen in contrast to the finish of the paper stock used if it printed on a copier (inkjet smears with moisture, dye-sub or laser lays on the surface and chips off).

There is a chance that the label is original but it appears to me very slim. You would need to find another bottle with the same label or just a label period to make a precise determination. It is like counterfeit money, it does not feel right but we can not hold this in our hand. The man selling may have been duped and he has covered himself to a degree by his ad wording but he would remember who he bought it from and he himself should provide a 'pedigree' of the bottle to justify the huge price. The art world requires this to be a certified original. 

Enough said.


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 15, 2020)

muskokajoe

Interesting and helpful -Thanks for sharing - Please take a look at the following and see what think about it

The first link is to a current eBay listing.  The second link is to the Worthpoint website

Notice:

1.  The three Glaser 7up paper labels listed on Worthpoint 
2.  The current eBay photo is IDENTICAL to the Worthpoint photos
3.  The seller's descriptions on eBay and Worthpoint are also IDENTICAL
4.  Two of the Worthpoint listings are from 2018 and one is from 2019 

Please note that I am not trying to discredit the eBay seller as there is not enough evidence to support that at the moment.  However, I do find it suspicious enough to call attention to it.  With that said, I can't help but wonder why the seller would use the identical photos and text for at least three years?  It doesn't say in any of the descriptions if the label pictured is the one you will receive, but it sort of sounds that way - although every description does claim the labels are original.  ???    

eBay Current 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GLASER-BEV...rQAAOSwxIleClx1:sc:USPSFirstClass!91906!US!-1


Worthpoint - 2018 and 2019

https://www.worthpoint.com/inventory/search?query=Glaser+7up&category=


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 15, 2020)

I also wonder what's up with these?

SAME SELLER - SAME BOTTLE - SAME LABEL


eBay June 2020 - Says no longer available - Asking $225

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Origi...=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



eBay July 2020 - Available - Asking $475

https://www.ebay.com/itm/224053520315


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 15, 2020)

P.S. 

In the June 2020 listing, click on the "View All Revisions" link below the photos and notice the Revision history.  I wonder why there are so many?  

Here is a direct link to the Revisions ...





__





						Revision summary for item #223702257908
					





					www.ebay.com


----------



## relic rescuer (Jul 15, 2020)

hemihampton said:


> Does anybody think this paper label is legite to this Bottle or belongs on this Bottle,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't know much about old bottles period, but it looks to me like the label is torn, intentionally, just so it doesn't look too perfect. The paper just looks too new, and perfect on the edges. Some aging you just can't fake.


----------



## treeguyfred (Jul 15, 2020)

SODABOB said:


> Value of bottle/label as is = $20 max


I wouldn't pay 5 cents for stuff* (editted) I would have left at dig site..... I have found this bottle a half a million times (it's european) and it has had ammonia and vinegar labels on them, and they are dime a dozen. That Label was pasted on the bottle... and I believe that the seller bought it a long time ago when he was amassing a soda (Ginger Ale, and other soda mixers collections) and wants to "salt " it in to his legit bottles and get rid of it


----------



## treeguyfred (Jul 15, 2020)

For sure some poor guy or gal got taken on this transaction!! And this seller definitely knows what right and wrong so...... draw your own conclusions...


----------



## iggyworf (Jul 15, 2020)

Sorry to say I never trusted that seller..


----------



## SODABOB (Jul 15, 2020)

For those who haven't noticed, the bottle did not sell because the seller ended the listing, saying it is no longer available.  I wonder why?  I bet dimes-to-donuts it will pop up again and be relisted ... 









						Rare 1935 7-Up Glaser Bottling Co Paper Label  " Seattle, U.S.A. " Nice  | eBay
					

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Rare 1935 7-Up Glaser Bottling Co Paper Label  " Seattle, U.S.A. " Nice at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!



					www.ebay.com


----------



## hemihampton (Jul 15, 2020)

How come this Glaser 7-up has GLASER embossed twice around the top neck? Now I'd call that a legite Glaser Bottle. Rumor also some have Glaser embossed on bottom.. LEON.


----------

