# Muriatic Watch Out



## Leisalu (Jul 7, 2004)

I've read some post were folks believe muriatic is safe and won't harm glass. For the most part that is true but it will ruin Black Glass even if it's heavily diluted. I left 3 1860s blacks I dug in a bucket that was diluted 20 to 1 for three days. On the third day when I removed them they were heavily etched from the acid. I should of learned but I tried again with a black glass Hostetter's I dug. This time I left the Hostetter's in the muriatic 20 to 1 bath for only 1 hour trying to loosen some inside crud. When I removed it I could see where the glass was starting to etch from the acid. Luckily I didn't leave it any longer. Always keep it covered even when heavily diluted. The vapors from the acid  will cause metal to rust up to 20 feet away.


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## IRISH (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi Leisalu,  welcome to the forum.
 Your HydroChloric acid is probably contaminated with a small amount of HydroFluoric  Acid,  not uncommon in acid made by some manufacturing processes.
 Pure Hydrochloric won't (can't) erode glass,  what it can do however is eat out Alkaline crud and "sickness" that has actually eroded into the glass,  it may look ok until the acid eches it back to solid glass.


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## Bottle Diver (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi Irish,

 I just switched to muriatic acid to get sea growth off my bottles, I used to use vinegar.  I usually buy it from Kent Building supplies, (I don't know if you have that in the States, but it is a big building supply store chain in Canada).  Should that be pure muriatic?  Is there anyway to tell what companies may sell the slightly "contaminated" mixtures you mentioned?  I find a fair amount of black glass diving and would hate to see it ruined, would you suggest going back to vinegar for these bottles just to be safe?

 Thanks


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## Leisalu (Jul 7, 2004)

> Hydrochloric


Hydrochloric  and Muriatic are not the same thing. I was using Muriatic diluted 20 to 1. This happened with two differnt batches almost 3 years apart from two different suppliers. It will etch black glass beyond just eating the scale off. It may be that it only eats certain kinds of black bottles. If I would of left my black Hostetter's in the bath overnight it would of been ruined. I've had great results with using it on all other types of glass with no problems.


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## Bottle Diver (Jul 7, 2004)

I was wondering about the Hydrochloric/Muriatic thing, I just assumed he new something I didn't!

 Alright, well I guess that answers my question, I will switch back to vinegar for any future black glass finds, it takes a bit longer but still does a great job.

 Thanks for the "heads-up" on the muriatic Leisalu!


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## Maine Digger (Jul 7, 2004)

I've been using a 'safe' muriatic acid sold by Aubuchon Hardware. It doesn't burn your skin, but should not be breathed!  The fumes rusted the entire top of my table saw in my basement.  [&:][] It has worked pretty well on my bottles with stuburn stains.[]


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## IRISH (Jul 7, 2004)

Hydrochloric and Muriatic ARE the same thing unless you have a different acid sold under that name in the states, very unlikely [] .   Muriatic acid is an old name for it and chemicaly incorrect but still used by a lot of manufacturers.
 There is a pdf file with infoHERE and a MSDS  HERE that will give you all the info you need,  they also both clearly state that Muriatic is another name for Hydrochloric as will any basic chemistry textbook [] .

 Bottle Diver,  Your Hydrochloric acid should be ok,  if you get a batch with Hydrofloric in it (I've never had any in mine and I use a lot) you could remove it by standing the acid for a few days in a glass jar full of clean broken glass.


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## Leisalu (Jul 7, 2004)

Irish;
  Okay it's time for me to eat my words, gulp. Your 100% correct in saying that the two acids are the same thing. A quick search on the net confirmed what you said. Thank you for pointing that out, I always thought there were different. I still however believe that it will etch certain black bottles as I've seen it happen first hand. Maybe the batch was contaminated but it happened with two separate batches from two different suppliers. I'd still caution folks about using it on a good black bottle, why take the chance. Another product I found that works well on certain things is a product in the States called "Lime Away". Comes in a green plastic squeeze bottle that can be bought almost anywhere. Someone on a post even suggested Listerine if you can believe that.


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## Maine Digger (Jul 7, 2004)

Hi Leisalu - Believe us, we believe you about the Listerine[] We had quite a thread a while back about Listerine, it actually works, but there's a lot more economical ways to go.[]


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## bigkitty53 (Jul 11, 2004)

Hi Leisalu,
                Welcome to the the forum! I have to agree with  Irish; Your muriatic acid might have been contaminated with Hydroflouric acid.I have have been using muriatic acid for cleaning coral,barnacles,etc. of off old BLACK glass bottles for over 25 years without etching a single one.And that is using a 3 to 1 concentration! I must say though,I only have the bottle in solution as long as it takes to disolve the calcite,usually 2-6 minutes, not hours.Also,sometimes glass sickness can make black glass look etched.Acid won't remove the sickness but can make it noticable by removing the crud that's hiding it! A couple of possible explanations to your experiences.

 Glad you were able to save the Hostetter's!

 KAT


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## Dive4bottles (Oct 7, 2004)

I'm getting some mixed messages on the use of Muriatic acid to get sea growth off bottles.  I purchased a bottle of it but woman of the house would not allow it's use anywhere on the premises.  I was just going to go ahead and set up an acid bath anyway since she never sets foot in the shed where it would be, but then I saw some posts about how the fumes will do some nasty stuff on metal objects.  The container is a 5 gallon plastic bucket with a lid.  The shed space is shared with several old metal-cased electronic slot machines that belong to a relative who's storing them there.  Needless to say, I don't need both the woman of the house and her brother dancing on my head if something happened.

 Sooo... I've heard that vinegar or Lime Away will work well, but do you dilute it, or use it full strength?  How long do you leave them in the bath?  The bottles are heavily encrusted.  I have some others that I hand-cleaned with a lot of elbow grease, but I'm looking for some solutions that will make the job a little easier and quicker w/o too much expense.


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## bigkitty53 (Oct 8, 2004)

Welcome to the forum Dive4Bottles,
 Vinegar is diluted to 5% acidity when it's bottled.On the admittedly rare occaisions I've used it,it was full strength and didn't hurt the glass in any way.It just takes longer to dissolve the calcium,etc. deposits.

 Hope this helps,

 KAT


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## Bottle Diver (Oct 13, 2004)

Hey Dive4bottles:

 Nice milk bottle there.  I would agree with bigkitty, whenever I use vinegar, I go full strength.  A diluted mixture will get off coral encrustations after a long soak, but those barnacles need full strength, and sometimes require some gentle "tapping" with a knife or other edge even after that.  They create one amazing adhesive!

 Good luck.


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## Dive4bottles (Oct 13, 2004)

*RE: Acid, vinegar, after pic*

Went down to the nearby Cash & Carry store (kinda like a mini Costco, but no membership needed) and got a case of vinegar.  Works fine if you don't have the time to watch them closely and/or fuss with the rubber gloves, baking soda rinse, goggles, and all that. I let it sit in the vinegar bath for 3 or 4 days.  Doesn't appear to harm the glass at all and really softens up the barnacles.  They are tough sob's, for sure.  It still could use a good "pro" polishing to really shine it up.  Note the 3-digit phone # on the bottle.  I think vinegar will be my prefered "acid" bath, much easier and safer to work with.


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## Dive4bottles (Oct 13, 2004)

One of the other bottles in my collection.  It had several really tough barnacles on it that I initially tried getting of with a diluted bleach soak and elbow grease but several still wouldn't budge (but the bleach made them nice and white).  This is after a soak in straight vinegar for several days.


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## Bottle Diver (Oct 14, 2004)

There is nothing wrong with using vinegar, I tend to use it a lot in the winter, when I can't really find an area with good ventilation for the muriatic.


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## Dive4bottles (Oct 14, 2004)

Vinegar fits well with my lazy streak (don't have to watch them so close or fuss with the other stuff) and she-who-must-be-obeyed is also content with it.


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## IRISH (Oct 15, 2004)

I just found an 1850's black beer in a winecooler full of Hydrochloric Acid (40% Acid 60% water, I use it on rust covered bottles) that I'd left behind the cellar door (it's leaning on the wall, not hung in the doorway [8|] ), I put it there a month or so ago and put a pile of plain blacks in front of it then forgot about it [8D] ,  there is no etching on it at all so I wouldn't worry too much about leaving them overnight.


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## nanny_n_buppa (Oct 24, 2004)

Hey folks,
      Has any one ever heard of putting a tooth in a cup of Coca Cola and have it dissolve over night? I have actually used it to flush out a plugged car radiator and heater core. I bet it would work on alot of different  build ups on glass, obviously it won't eat the glass because it used to be bottled in glass. The acid in Coke is phosphoric acid. I have a Sawyer's Crystal Blueing bottle that still has blueing compound dried on the inside of the bottle. I don't dare to clean it for fear of losing the blueing, who knows, maybe it is a lost formula. 
 Have fun!!!


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## Dive4bottles (Oct 24, 2004)

I use Coca-Cola in my rum drinks.  I don't have any need to dissolve teeth overnight, I dump the bodies in the ocean.  I would think it would clog up a radiator with all that sticky crap and also leave a sticky residue on bottles.  I take my vehicle to pros to work on, I won't touch it.  Straight vinegar works fine and is much cheaper.


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## Maine Digger (Oct 25, 2004)

Coke is actually a very good cleaner. It will remove grease stains from dark clothes, take oil stains off a driveway or garage floor, takes 'scales' out of tea kettles, polishes coins, removes rust stains from sinks, it's nearly as good as tomato juice to rid 'skunk' from pets, is great for tenderizing steaks and lastly, there's a whole generation of us that dentists love, because we drank so much of the stuff when we were young.....[8D]


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## kumtow (Oct 26, 2004)

Hey Norm, cool picture of yourself in your users profile.  Getting a little thin on top though.


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## Bottle Diver (Oct 26, 2004)

I have found coke to work well removing organic material from some of my bottles, however, I tried it on some interesting "china bits" that had a couple of cracks in the glaze, and the coke seeped right in and left a lovely brown stain throughout.  I guess I should have seen that coming [].  So careful using it with china!


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## bigkitty53 (Oct 27, 2004)

Bottlediver,
 Try soaking the china in a bleach solution to remove the stains.Coke's colouring is caramel(burnt sugar)-an organic.Bleach should oxidize it,if not try one the laundry 'Oxi-Clean'-'Oxi-Blue's.'

 Hope this works,

 KAT


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## Bottle Diver (Oct 27, 2004)

Thanks bigkitty.  I did try bleach, but to no avail.  It dulled the colouring, but certainly did not get rid of it.  I never thought of Oxy-clean though, I have some of that I will give it a try tonight.  I'll try any other suggestions people might have too, I guess I can't really make it any worse []


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## IRISH (Oct 28, 2004)

Soak it in clean water for a week or more then in a weak solution Citric Acid or even better Oxalic Acid,  Citric acid is avalible in supermarkets and the like and is about as dangerous as lemons [] (it is the main acid in lemons),  leave it in the acid for a few weeks then soak it in water for at least twice as long as the acid and change often.
 Thats the main procedure I use for stains in stone and china (I use Phosphoric Acid though, the chemical that's in small amounts in coke that makes it clean stuff in the first place [] ).
 Hope it helps [] .


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## Bottle Diver (Oct 28, 2004)

Thanks Irish, I will try that exact procedure.  They have been soaking in water for about a week now, after the attempted bleaching, so I'll give it another week and begin your process.  Please excuse my ignorance, but what is Oxalic Acid and where could I get that?

 Thanks


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## Miles (Oct 29, 2005)

I know this is a very old thread, but I'm curious about something. Vinegar will remove the sickness off bottles?


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## tazmainiendigger (Oct 29, 2005)

Miles, I have tried vinegar to clean some of my minerals eg; removing calcium based deposits ( I am a mineral specimen dealer) It works best when heated, almost all acids work best when warmed..  Taz


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## Miles (Oct 29, 2005)

How would you reccomend I heat it?


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## tazmainiendigger (Oct 29, 2005)

Old crock pot, microwave (old one), stove, sunshine when available[]  The sunlight will warm up the liquid and eg; bottle gradually less shock... PS all my stronger acid work is done outside and with plexiglass coverings, to keep poisonous fumes to a minimum. Even the vinegar will get "perky" when heated so I would  NOT do it in the gals good microwave in the house. Taz


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