# 7up 7 bubble variation!



## iggyworf (Feb 12, 2017)

Here we go again with another strange 7up bottle. Some of you may know I collect 7up's. I would like to show another one.

This 7up bottle has a very different variation. This one deals with the position of the 7 bubbles on the shield. First notice the common position of the arrangement of bubbles. From left side to right side, 2 bubbles then in the middle 2 bubbles then on the right side 3 bubbles. This is the typical arrangement of bubbles for '7 bubble' bottles.

Next to it is pictured the odd bottle I just recently got. Notice the arrangement. Left side 3 bubbles, middle 1 bubble, right side 3 bubbles. Now this is not an '8 bubble' with the bottom middle bubble missing. The swimsuit girl has 7 bubbles above her arms. The 8 bubble swimsuit girl always had 8 bubbles above her arms.





I have seen one other bottle like this about a year ago but was unable to purchase it. And that one was is much better shape than the one I have now. That and this one are the only ones I have ever seen.  Mine is from L.A. California. Not sure of the bottler as that portion of the ACL is missing. My bottle is an Owens Illinois from 1941. The plant code # is 23, which is L.A. but according to some charts they didn't bottle anything until 1949, so that is a little confusing. But the date code is a 1 with a period after it.

more pics


(not sure why yet but I put pics side by side and when I posted finished post it put the pics all aligned under each other)??


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## Canadacan (Feb 12, 2017)

Cool!, never seen that variation....yea you have to join your side by side photos before posting.


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## CreekWalker (Feb 12, 2017)

Great, Glad you found it!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## M.C.Glass (Feb 13, 2017)

There are a lot of varieties of 7up labels, front and back. I don't have one, but there are transition bottles that have 7 bubbles on the main ACL and 8 bubbles still on the neck. There are one foot and two foot girls too. Your 8 bubble girl looks like a full thighed matron!


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## iggyworf (Feb 13, 2017)

Thanx everybody! Canadacan I had a feeling that was the prob with posting the pics.


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## Jbeas31 (Feb 15, 2017)

I was also watching that one on eBay. Glad you got it Iggyworf! Definitely different. 

I first noticed the "fuller thigh" bubble girl as MCglass did when I saw it.  Just noticed it's a 6 1/2 oz bottle too!


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## iggyworf (Feb 15, 2017)

Thanx Jbeas31. Yeah 6 1/2 oz is also different.


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## SODABOB (Mar 5, 2017)

Rich / iggy

I have been experiencing computer problems (again) and just recently got some of it fixed, which included having to transfer 10,000+ images to a back up chip. Part of my problem is that I rarely delete pictures from my files, but plan to try and do more of that in the future.  Anyway, I'm back in the saddle again and hopefully won't have any more problems.  

Just for the heck of it, I am categorizing your latest find as a ... 

3-1-3   Bubble Label 

That way I will more easily remember and recognize it in future searches. I think we all agree that 7up probably has the most variations (front and back labels) of any ACL soda bottles know. But what we don't know (at least I don't) is whether those variations were random whims of the individual bottlers or intentional by the parent company as some way of identifying regions, dates, etc. In other words, if all of the 3-1-3 bottles are from Los Angeles and/or a particular bottler in the Los Angeles area, then that might tell us something specific about them. But if the 3-1-3 bottles are from all over the country, then that will tell us something else entirely. So with that said, I intend to ...

1. Look at every picture of a 7up ACL bottle I have on file and see if any of them have the 3-1-3 bubble label. 

2. Conduct a new search (Internet / Books / Etc) and see if I can find any 3-1-3 bubble label bottles. 

I will report back in a few days and let you know if I find anything. 

Bob


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## SODABOB (Mar 5, 2017)

Instead of saying I will be back in a few days, I should have said in a few minutes ...

Here's a 3-1-3 I just found that's from ... 

San Bernardino, *California *

(Which is about 30+ miles east of Los Angeles) 

I don't know the date but it was described as having an Owens-Illinois mark on the base. Unfortunately, it doesn't tell us anything definite, but its a start ...

I'll be back


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## iggyworf (Mar 6, 2017)

Hey bob! Good to hear from you. Hope the comp probs go away for you. Thanx For checking out this bottle.


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

*3-1-3*  Bakersfield, *California

*Coincidence or Connection? 

April 1939




Current





I'm still looking for a swimsuit 7up bottle from Bakersfield, but whether its a 3-1-3 remains to be seen. In the meantime, this map indicates the 3-1-3 connection thus far ...


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

*2-2-3 *Los Angeles , Ca. *1947* 

(Currently on eBay)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-ear...1bf3ee438:g:grsAAOSwaB5XsKwz&autorefresh=true




?


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

Rich / iggy

Even though the *3-1-3 *bottles we've seen so far were all bottled in southern California, its still inconclusive as to how consistent that as. If a single 3-1-3 bottle is found from another state, then it eliminates the southern California theory.  I find it interesting that the 1947 Los Angeles bottle I just posted is a 2-2-3. That tells us the 3-1-3 label *might *not have been made that late. Of course, this is still inconclusive.  I'd like to suggest our focusing on the Los Angeles bottles only and see if we can determine if the transition from the 3-1-3 label to the 2-2-3 label was intentional and consistent or just random.  In other words, lets see what we can find for Los Angeles between about 1939 and 1949. Perhaps by doing that we will be able to determine if the transition was intentional and consistent and possibly even find a specific date when the so called transition took place.


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## iggyworf (Mar 6, 2017)

Great work Bob! I want that sign!!!!

Check it out. I found several 7up wooden crates with the 3-1-3 bubble pattern from L.A. Here are just 2 of the pics.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1960-RARE-V...169209?hash=item21129c8879:g:kQoAAOSwzJ5Xe90O



http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-RARE-V...792390?hash=item4898d5c786:g:oWcAAOSw8w1X4FCW

Not sure how to tell the dates on these. I don't think the numbers indicate the yr but I could be wrong. I know some crates have the yr on them as I have a few different ones. Some of the sellers indicate those numbers are the yr of the crate. This one being the latest at 1968.


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

Rich

I have been seeing tons of the 3-1-3 Los Angeles crates, as well as a few from San Bernardino. I'm also confused about the so called dates. Speaking of dates, can you make out the date on the base of this 3-1-3 San Bernardino bottle?  I've tried everything I can think of but just not sure what the last number(s) are. Reminder/Clue;  As far as I know, the first San Bernardino 7up bottling plant was established in 1939.  Also notice it has the stippling bumps but is not marked with Duraglas. As you know, the Duraglas aspect was first introduced around 1940


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## iggyworf (Mar 6, 2017)

Bob, on the Owens charts that I have the #23 plant is listed for Los  Angeles. But anyway that is a tough number to figure out. The first one  almost looks like the letter 'I'. The 2nd is awful big to be a zero. On my bottle the digits above the Owens mark are all the same as this one. Below the mark on mine is the #2. This one looks like a 6. Mine also seems to have the stippling bumps but no 'Duraglas'. My bottle is clearly a 1941. And another interesting thing is they are both 6 & 1/2 ounce. I know of the 6 ounce also(I just tried recently to bid on one on ebay but lost out. I should have went higher. It went for about 40$)


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

iggy

Mucho confusing (Which is usual with 7up bottles).  The second number should be a 3, 4, or 5, but who knows. It might be one of those so called re-issue / re-stamped bottles. 

Here's a Bakersfield, California crate. I'm not sure if that's a date (1-59) but notice the 3-1-3 bubbles on the end. I'm still looking but so far haven't been able to find a 7up *bottle* from Bakersfield


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

iggy

The two common denominators I'm seeing with the 3-1-3 bottles are ... 

1.  Southern California

2.  Owens-Illinois Plant #23 Los Angeles

But whether *all *of the Plant #23 7up bottles have the 3-1-3 label still remains to be determined. Hence, I'm switching my search to Plant #23 7up bottles and see what I can find.


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

My initial search discovered the following Owens-Illinois 7up swimsuit bottles that were made at the Los Angeles plant #23  ... 

First Column = Date
Second Column = Bubble Placement
Third Column = Location of *Bottler* 

1941  -  3-1-3  -  Los Angeles, Ca.  (iggy's bottle) 
1943  -  2-2-3 -  Spokane, Washington
1944  -  2-2-3 -  Los Angeles, Ca.
1944  -  2-2-3  -  Mt. Vernon, Washington
1945  -  3-2-3  -  Portland, Oregon ( Exception with 3-2-3 ) ?
1946  -  2-2-3  -  Mt. Vernon, Washington
1947  -  2-2-3 -  Los Angeles, Ca.
1952  -  2-2-3  -  Conroe, Texas



19??  -  3-1-3  -  Bakersfield, Ca. 
19??  -  3-1-3  -  San Bernardino, Ca. 


I realize there is no immediate rhyme or reason to the above, but maybe it will make more sense later on. I only listed bottles with confirmed dates. Remember, one clue often leads to another!


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

P.S. 

After studying my own chart, the only thing that currently jumps out at me is that all of the 3-1-3 bottles *might *have been made in 1941 or earlier.  ????


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## SODABOB (Mar 6, 2017)

Hey, iggy

Please refresh my memory regarding the *latest *dates for embossed necks. I should know myself but I can't recall at the moment. 

Here's one of the Bakersfield, Ca. bottles I've been looking for. Unfortunately, this was the only available picture of it. I'm not sure about the bubble placement or the date. All I know is what you see here and that its from Bakersfield and has an embossed neck with *u7p* ...


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## SODABOB (Mar 7, 2017)

I have been looking at as many 7up bottles as I can find, including on eBay and elsewhere, and the only confirmed 3-1-3 bottles I have been able to find are from ...

1.  Los Angeles, California  -  1941  -  iggy's bottle 

2.  San Bernardino, California  -  Date Unknown

Note:  Even though the Bakersfield, California bottle is a possible 3-1-3, it has yet to be confirmed with a picture showing the bubble placement. 

Additionally, I have seen confirmed 3-1-3 wood crates from ... 

1.  Bakersfield, California

2.  Los Angeles, California

3.  San Bernardino, California

4.  San Diego, California 

However, it has not been determined yet if the 3-1-3 crates directly correlate with the 3-1-3 bottles.  

I have several 7up bottles from San Diego, one of which was made in 1952 at the Los Angeles Owens-Illinois plant #23, and is marked with 23 <(I)> 52

However, my 1952 bottle is a 2-2-3 and not a 3-1-3 

Here are the two crates not shown yet ... 

1. San Bernardino

 





2. San Diego






Footnote:  I'm not convinced yet that the numbers on the crates are dates - although they could be. 

(I'll be back)


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## iggyworf (Mar 7, 2017)

According to Bill Lockharts chart, embossed necks might have gone as late as 1940.


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## iggyworf (Mar 7, 2017)

same as the one you found Bob. disregard.


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## iggyworf (Mar 7, 2017)

Bob I might have just added to the confusion

3-1-3 wooden crate from West Barrington Rhode Island.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/ANTIQUE-COU...089053?hash=item4897b8639d:g:TK4AAOSwjDZYf8zg


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## SODABOB (Mar 7, 2017)

iggy

I've been wondering about the crates myself and which box factory made them. If the Barrington, R.I. crate was made by the same company that made the other 3-1-3 crates, and during the same time period, that might explain the bubble placement. However, determining who made which crates and when could be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. As far as the 3-1-3 bottles go, the trail thus far seems to lead directly to the Owens-Illinois Plant #23 in Los Angeles, California. But even if that Plant is the *only *source for the 3-1-3 bottles, you still have to wonder ... 

1.  Why they produced the 3-1-3 labels? 

2.  Did they produce 2-3-2 labels at the same time?  If so, why make two different labels at the same time? 

3.  Were the 3-1-3 labels random or were they made at the request of certain bottlers? 

4.  What year(s) were the 3-1-3 labels produced? 

5.  Were they only made in 1941?  If so, why? 


The only thing I'm fairly confident about at the moment is that the 3-1-3 bottles seem to be extremely rare. But why that is I do not know. 

To further this investigation, I think it might prove worthwhile to focus on the year *1941 *as a possibly *strong clue*.

(I'll be back)


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## iggyworf (Mar 7, 2017)

I found this 1940 image of the Bakersfield/Los Angeles bottling plant. But cannot see with enough clarity if the trucks have the 3-1-3 bubble scheme.



I don't believe this sign to be authentic.?





http://www.ebay.com/itm/RARE-7Up-7-Up-SOLD-HERE-Soda-Pop-Gas-Station-23-Embossed-Metal-Sign-NOS-/292040131354?hash=item43fef2c31a:g:aAcAAOSw2gxYs2H1


The more I look the more oddities I find?

[url]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Wood-7Up-7-Up-Home-Pack-Soda-Pop-12-Bottle-Carrier-Sign-/162319367289?hash=item25cafcfc79:g:Yx4AAOSw44BYUDHy


[/URL]


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## SODABOB (Mar 7, 2017)

iggy

I came across the same Bakersfield picture and can't make out the truck emblems either. Regarding 3-1-3 crates, signs, etc., because I'm not familiar enough with those type of items, I'm putting them on the back burner for the time being and laser-focusing my search for the 3-1-3 bottles, especially the two confirmed examples from Los Angeles and San Bernardino. Speaking of the San Bernardino bottle, earlier you said this about your Los Angeles bottle ... 

"My bottle is an Owens Illinois from 1941. The plant code # is 23, which is L.A. but according to some charts they didn't bottle anything until 1949, so that is a little confusing. But the date code is a 1 with a period after it."  

For starters, the Owens-Illinois plant was definitely operating in Los Angeles as early as 1935. So your 1941 date is accurate. 

Secondly, I have been studying the base on the San Bernardino bottle and believe its highly possible the second number is a one as in ...

*23 <(I)> 1.    *(For 1941)

As for what looks like an O, that could very easily just be an anomaly in the glass. I realize this is speculative, but what else could the number be other than a one? 

Check out the enhanced image I did of the base and compare it to the following numbers. I'll bet you dimes to donuts its a 1.

and not a ... 2.  3.  4.  5.  6.  7.  8.  9.  0.

San Bernardino 3-1-3 Bottle / Base





Hence, I'm still leaning toward the possibility that a major clue is ... *​1941*


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## SODABOB (Mar 7, 2017)

P.S. 

Its simple! All we need to do is find another San Bernardino bottle with a clearly focused picture of the base.


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## SODABOB (Mar 7, 2017)

Speaking of another San Bernardino bottle, I found this ... 


{ Accompanying Description }

[FONT=&amp]"Four Old Seven Up 7UP Bubble Girl 7 oz. Bottles. They are in excellent condition. They are all different cities on the back. Los Angeles, Calif., San Bernardino, Calif., Fresno, Calif., and Globe-Miami, Arizona."

Notice the Los Angeles bottle (1st left) and the San Bernardino bottle (2nd from left) are 2-2-3 bottles, which tells us they discontinued the 3-1-3 bottles at some point. Which adds to my speculation about the 1941 date. The description is copy/pasted as shown and did not include any dates. 


[/FONT]


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## carling (Mar 8, 2017)

Not that it's significant, but all those 3-1-3 bottles you guys posted have 2-2-3 neck labels on them.


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## iggyworf (Mar 8, 2017)

Thanx carling for jumping in. Yes I did notice that as well. Bob is it just me or is the first bottle in that pic, the Los Angeles one, a little shorter than the other three? Possibly being 6 & 1/2 oz? Even though they are all 2-2-3 bottles. The neck label is lower also. It maybe be meaningless though.

But yes, let us concentrate on the bottles.


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## SODABOB (Mar 8, 2017)

carling

I also notice the bubbles on the neck shield but don't know what to make of them - other than they seem to be consistent. Earlier shields did not have the lines above and below the shield. 

iggy

The Los Angeles bottle does appear to be shorter but it could be an optical illusion. However, because the lineup appears to have a slight curvature to it, you'd think the Los Angeles bottle would appear taller and not shorter. ??? 

Earlier I said the wood crates were confusing, which *might *also apply to the following calendars. However, the calendars can at least be relied on for dates, whereas the crates are still in question. I searched for as many calendars as I could find from 1935 to 1960, and the missing years are those I could not find a picture of. But whether the calendars correlate with the bottles, I can't say at the moment but plan to research it further. However, I did find it interesting that the bubble placement from 3-1-3 to 2-2-3 seems to have occurred in 1947. Notice that one of the 1947 calendars is a 3-1-3 but the other 1947 calendar is a 2-2-3. Every calendar I found prior to 1947 is a 3-1-3, whereas every calendar I found after 1947 is a 2-2-3 ... 


 

 







 

(I'll be back)


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## SODABOB (Mar 8, 2017)

P.S. 

Regarding the calendars, notice that none of them have a Bottler's name on them or a reference to a state or location. I could be wrong, but this leads me to believe they were sanctioned and possibly even produced by the Parent Company located in St. Louis, Missouri and possibly distributed nationwide.


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## SODABOB (Mar 8, 2017)

iggy 

Here's something worth studying. I've read it in the past but forgot about it. Until now I never really thought about the connection of the Owens-Illinois plant number with the model or catalog number. Scroll back to the base of the San Bernardino bottle I posted and you'll see where its marked with 4285G.  If the following information is accurate, then it tells us the San Bernardino bottle was likely made *after/post *1937.  

[ From Bill Lockhart Article ]

"Many of the post-1937 Seven-Up bottles have another code embossed on either the base or the heel (e.g., 4285G on one base or G94 on another). This is the model or catalog number. These apparently varied from factory to factory, even within the same company. The 4285G number, for example came from plant #23 (Los Angeles), Owens-Illinois.However, plant #7 (Alton, Illinois) of Owens-Illinois used G94 on its Seven-Up bottles.


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## SODABOB (Mar 8, 2017)

P.S. 

Another thing the Bill Lockhart article refreshed my memory about is his references to *test bottles / test markets*. Hence, now I'm wondering if the Los Angeles and San Bernardino bottles were *test bottles *that failed the test and were only produced during a single year?  With that year being 1941?


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## SODABOB (Mar 9, 2017)

More Test Market / Test Bottle dialog ... 

"The same process occurred with the labels, bottle shape, bottle color, type of label (paper,embossed, ACL), shape and design of label, placement of label. Paper labels required that all information be on the front, but ACLs allowed the splitting of the label, usually with a large logo on the front and information on the back. As ideas changed the back label(and, to a lesser extent, the front one) changed. But the story does not end with design. Regardless of who originated the design, it had to funnel through the company for approval – and designs usually emanated directly from the main company. The company then test marketed the new design by sending it to one or two franchises (usually close by) to see if the public would react favorably. Assuming the reaction was positive, the new design would be sent to all franchises. Most franchises adopted each of the new ideas (i.e., design changes) as soon as their existing bottle supplies ran out. Some franchises, however, were resistant to some new ideas but liked other ones."

Observation:  I especially like where it says "... by sending it to one or two franchises (usually close by)..."  

This might explain why the Los Angeles and San Bernardino bottles both have the 3-1-3 label and possibly were both produced at the same time. I double checked and the distance from Los Angeles to San Bernardino is about 60 miles.


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## Jbeas31 (Mar 9, 2017)

Bob,
This doesnt so much pertain to the 3-1-3 bottles, but I thought it worth mentioning. The Visalia,California bottles that do not have neck shield labels. They seem to have all been produced in the 1940's and are in the area that the 3-1-3 dot labels seem to originate. There are multiple years of those that I have seen. I do own one and will have to check the year of my bottle.


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## Texandave (Mar 9, 2017)

Some of my green 7up bottles that may be of interest to you guys.  Can you find the 6 ounce bottle?


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## Jbeas31 (Mar 10, 2017)

Texandave said:


> Some of my green 7up bottles that may be of interest to you guys.  Can you find the 6 ounce bottle? View attachment 177410View attachment 177411View attachment 177412View attachment 177413



Very Nice bottles TexanDave!  Your Six Ounce is the dimpled 7up Embossed bottle. 3rd pic second bottle. 

Where is the Paper Label from?


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## Texandave (Mar 10, 2017)

It is from The 7-UP Bottling Company of Western Michigan in Holland, Michigan.  Copyright date in the lower right says 1947.  The latest one of the bunch.  Here are pictures of my squat 7ups.  The paper label bottle is from Johnson City, TN and is a true 1935.  Just bought it and the Nashville painted neck on eBay.


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## hemihampton (Mar 10, 2017)

I got this paper label Quart from Holland Michigan. LEON.


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## Robby Raccoon (Mar 10, 2017)

Holland was Michigan's biggest 7-Up bottling plant.


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## SODABOB (Mar 11, 2017)

Rich / iggy 

Regarding your 1941 3-1-3 bottle from Los Angeles, my educated guess is that it was a test bottle. I believe the same might apply to the San Bernardino bottle. My recommendation is to keep our eyes peeled for more bottles from those cities and see if the date is consistent. I will report back if/when I find anything. Thanks for sharing what seems to be a rare (only known example) 7up bottle from Los Angeles. Ca. 

Bob


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## SODABOB (Mar 11, 2017)

P.S.

Rich / iggy 

Do you happen to know ... 

1.  How many different years the *6 1/2 ounce *bottles were made?  

2.  What cities/states the 6 1/2 ounce bottles came from? 

Thanks,

Bob


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## iggyworf (Mar 12, 2017)

Sorry folks, now it was my turn to have comp probs for the last week. I will have to catch up on the thread.


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

Rich

I'm sorry to hear about your computer problems. Mine continue to occur from time to time despite my having eliminated 10,000+ pictures from my files. I recently vacuumed the dust out of my tower and that seems to have helped. According to my brother (who is a computer whiz), dust can cause all kinds of problems, including overheating, and should be vacuumed out on a regular basis. 

Anyway, I've been digging a little deeper into the *Los Angeles 6 1/2 ounce* bottles and discovered something kind of interesting. As near as I can determine, it appears the 6 1/2 ounce bottles were only distributed in the Los Angeles area between 1937 and 1941. After 1941 they start showing up in ads as being 7 ounce. And not only that, but 99.9% of the ads I've seen so far for the 6 1/2 ounce bottles are all by *Ralphs Grocery Co. *But whether Ralphs had an exclusive on the 6 1/2 ounce bottles as some type of test bottle, I can't say for certain at this juncture. But it seems mighty coincidental that the Ralph's ads are the only ones I can find between 1937 and 1941 that advertise a 6 1/2 ounce 7up bottle. 

Attachments ... 

1. & 2. ~   Ralphs Article  ~  Los Angeles Times  ~  January 20, *1940*  ~  Notice "28 Locations" in the Los Angeles area  ...

 

 

3.  One of Ralphs Stores  ~  1940s 

 

4.  Ralphs 7up Ad  ~  Los Angeles Times  ~  May 10, 1941  ~  Notice "6 1/2 Fl. Oz Bottle"


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

In other words ... 
*
Was Ralphs Grocery Co. a test market for 6 1/2 ounce 7up bottles?*


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

P.S ...
*
Was the 3-1-3 bubble placement on the Los Angeles 6 1/2 ounce 7up bottles intentional/test market or accidental/random?    

*


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## iggyworf (Mar 12, 2017)

Good work Bob, I was just going to add that Los Angeles & San Bernardino are the only cities I know of so far that had the 6 & 1/2 oz bottle. That makes me wonder. Why change the mold for just a 1/2 oz. Do you think the molds would have to be different than a 7oz mold? I would also like to find out where the 6 oz 7up bottle is from.


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

Rich

That's a good question about the molds. Have you compared your 6 1/2 ounce bottle to other 7up bottles in your collection?  

Such as ...

1.  Measure Height - Base Diameter - Etc. 

2.  Measure Maximum Capacity?  Fill various bottles to the rim/overfill. Then pour into measuring cup to determine fluid ounces.

Doing that might tell you something!


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

Rich

I just conducted my own experiment using a 1952 7 ounce bottle. I filled it to the rim and then poured it into two different measuring cups - one of which is a standard type of measuring cup and the other is a measuring cup that measures by tea spoons, table spoons, and ounces. I conducted the test several times and the result was the same every time. My 1952 7 ounce bottle holds exactly ... 

*​8 Fluid Ounces*


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## hemihampton (Mar 12, 2017)

Did you fill to the top. The Factory filled bottles left alot of air space in neck. LEON.



Unless some of mine evaporated?


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## Texandave (Mar 12, 2017)

Ok guys, How many 6 Fl. Ozs. green 7up bottles were made?  Mine shown earlier has R.R. ROCHELL, B'HAM, ALA embossed around the base of it.  It also has the dimple embossed 7up neck.  This was the first one I have seen in twenty years of collecting.


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

HH 

I filled my 7 ounce bottle to the top - that's the only way of knowing its maximum capacity. When filled by the bottler originally, it would have held a minimum of 7 ounces. If iggy's 1941 L.A. 6 1/2 ounce bottle tops out at 7 1/2 ounces, then that would indicate the molds were two different sizes. 


Tex

I'm not sure about the 6 ounce bottles - but maybe iggy knows


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

Tex

I took a quick look around and found three 6 ounce 7up bottles - all three of which are from *Birmingham, Alabama*


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

iggy

Here's your 1941 Los Angeles 3-1-3 bottle along side a San Bernardino 3-1-3 bottle for comparison ...


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

Observation ... 

Even though the Los Angeles bottle was closer to the camera and appears larger, they are probably the same size in real life.  However, one thing that likely isn't an optical illusion is the placement of the neck shield.  Notice the shield on the Los Angeles bottle is higher up on the neck than it is on the San Bernardino bottle. But whether this was intentional or accidental, I do not know.


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## Jbeas31 (Mar 12, 2017)

Bob,
I own the 1936 amber paper label 6 1/2 oz from Arcadia, California. 

It can be found here. 
https://www.antique-bottles.net/showthread.php?687054-Another-Amber-7up-Question/page6


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

Jb

I ran across a few of the 6 1/2 ounce paper label bottles, too, but discounted them because they were not ACLs. If you decide to research them, please let us know what locations and dates you come up with.


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## SODABOB (Mar 12, 2017)

Tex

The following links are to two 6 ounce 7up bottles from Birmingham, Alabama. Check 'em out ...  


http://www.ebay.com/itm/7up-Bottle-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557




http://www.ebay.com/itm/R-R-Rochell...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## Jbeas31 (Mar 13, 2017)

SODABOB said:


> Jb
> 
> I ran across a few of the 6 1/2 ounce paper label bottles, too, but discounted them because they were not ACLs. If you decide to research them, please let us know what locations and dates you come up with.



Oh okay. I thought we were talking in general about where the 6 1/2 oz 7ups were made/bottled. Arcadia, California is 13 miles from Los Angeles.


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## iggyworf (Mar 13, 2017)

Those are excellent PL bottles Jbeas31! Is that an 8 bubble on that amber label? Or is it the 3-1-3 7 bubble design? I can't make it out exactly.

OK, Here are my results of measuring. 

1. My 3-1-3 1941 6&1/2 oz bottle is 7 & 3/4 in tall.
2. My 2-2-3 1945 7 oz bottle is 8 in tall.



Here they are filled each with apprx as close as I can measure,

1. 3-1-3 bottle 6&1/2 oz of water.
2. 2-2-3 bottle 7oz water.



When filled to the top rim the 3-1-3 bottle holds 7 oz and the 2-2-3 bottle holds 7 & 1/2 oz.

So I think the molds would have to be slightly different. But maybe easily fitted to make a 6&1/2 oz bottle. They seem to be identical except the neck is just a little shorter.


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## SODABOB (Mar 13, 2017)

Jb

The reason I discounted the 6 1/2 ounce paper labels is because I wasn't sure if iggy wanted to shift the focus away from his 3-1-3 acl.  The same thing might apply to Tex's 6 ounce acl. However, the fact that your paper label bottle is from the same area as iggy's acl is interesting and could be a clue that leads to other clues. If you have the time, please search out other 6 1/2 paper labels and see what locations you can find. Thanks 


Rich/iggy 

Is your 1945 7 ounce bottle also from Los Angeles? But regardless where its from, the 3-1-3 and 2-2-3 are definitely different size bottles made from different molds. It appears the 3-1-3 bubble placement and 6 1/2 ounces are directly related. Which I suspect was intentional and not random. But exactly why they are related, I do not currently know. 

By the way ... 

Do *cardboard cartons *count when it comes to the 3-1-3 bubble placement? This particular example is especially interesting because it was advertised by the 7up Bottling Company in *Bakersfield, California

*The Bakersfield Californian newspaper  ~  July 11, 1940 

Note:  I have searched for an actual example of one of these cartons but have been unable to find one. I also have been unable to find a picture of a Bakersfield acl that shows the front label.


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## iggyworf (Mar 13, 2017)

SODABOB said:


> My initial search discovered the following Owens-Illinois 7up swimsuit bottles that were made at the Los Angeles plant #23  ...
> 
> First Column = Date
> Second Column = Bubble Placement
> ...



Here is what appears to be a 1940 2-2-3 bottle from Spokane Wa. With the LA plant code of 23. And also the mold # of 4285 G. My 3-1-3 bottle is 1941. Why did they change the ACL bubble pattern for 1941? And is there any 3-1-3 bottles after 1941?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/194-7up-7-o...316647?hash=item3acdb556a7:g:BaQAAOSwXeJXeaQr


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## iggyworf (Mar 13, 2017)

Bob I just picked a random 7oz bottle out of my crates full of 7up bottles. This one is from Sault Ste. Marie Michigan. I love it being my home state.


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## SODABOB (Mar 13, 2017)

Hmm ... Mo research required!  

In the meantime, I'm adding Jb's *Arcadia* bottle to the map. (The Bakersfield location is still unconfirmed for a 3-1-3 label).


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## iggyworf (Mar 13, 2017)

I thought this was pretty cool. It doesn't help our search but it is related.

https://www.etsy.com/listing/273467...gallery&ga_search_query=7up&ref=sr_gallery_27


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## Jbeas31 (Mar 13, 2017)

Thanks Iggy.  I just got the large Glaser bottle a week ago. 

The amber from Arcadia is an 8 bubble. 



*** Bob. No problem. I will try to look into the 6 1/2 paper labels soon.


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## iggyworf (Mar 13, 2017)

SODABOB said:


> Tex
> 
> The following links are to two 6 ounce 7up bottles from Birmingham, Alabama. Check 'em out ...
> 
> ...




Here is the link to the recently sold 6 oz from ebay. I tried bidding but didn't win it.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Up-Lady-S...tXOwJPJbPQ4nAC5bpGjuY%3D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc


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## SODABOB (Mar 13, 2017)

Hey, Rich

Did you notice the Birmingham, Alabama 6 ounce bottle you posted a link to has *lines on all four sides of the neck label*? What's that all about? Dare I say "here we go again."


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## iggyworf (Mar 14, 2017)

Bob, yes I did notice that, but had things to do so I did not comment on it. Another mystery?


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## SODABOB (Mar 14, 2017)

Rich

Talk about mysteries ... 

Why can't I find a Bakersfield bottle? 

There should be thousands of them! I checked and the 1940 Bakersfield population was 29,252. So its not as if it was a small town. And yet I can't find a single bottle (except for the one I posted earlier that shows the back label). I have reason to believe the 1939-1941 Bakersfield bottles might have the 3-1-3 label. But finding one for confirmation is becoming a real challenge. 

The attached newspaper article is two full pages and pertains to the opening of their new plant in 1939. Notice the floor mat in the 3rd image, which I cropped from the article ... 

The Bakersfield Californian ~ Bakersfield, California ~ June 13, 1939

(Save to read entire article)

 




Notice in this cropped portion where it refers to "mahogany beverage cases" 




Is this one of the "mahogany" cases the article refers to?  (Notice the grain and color)   



3-1-3 on end of crate

(I'm doubtful the numbers are dates)


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## SODABOB (Mar 14, 2017)

P.S. 

The reason I'm doubtful the numbers on the ends of the crates are dates is because of the dozens of crates I have seen for Los Angeles, every one of them starts with the number 6. I haven't done a search for the Bakersfield and San Bernardino crates yet, but I won't be surprised if they have their own first number, such as the 1 on the Bakersfield crate I just posted.


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## SODABOB (Mar 14, 2017)

Rich 

I might have to start a new thread about 7up crates. The reason I say this is because I'm finding some odd numbers on them. For example; of the dozens of Los Angeles crates I've seen, 99% of them start with the number 6.  I only found two exceptions; one that started with a 1 and one that started with an 8.  But what's really weird is, I can't find any Los Angeles crates with a second number lower than 50. Are we to believe that all of the Los Angeles crates date from 1950 or later? And what about the 1930s and 1940s crates? If the numbers are dates, there should be lots of them marked 6-39  /  6-49 / etc. But as it stands now, I cannot find a single crate from the 1930s or 1940s. That is unless the second numbers aren't dates. I'm thinking the first numbers are either city numbers or possibly region numbers. ???


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## iggyworf (Mar 14, 2017)

You could be right about the dates. I have seen the numbers(2nd set) as high as 72.


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## iggyworf (Mar 14, 2017)

iggyworf said:


> Bob I might have just added to the confusion
> 
> 3-1-3 wooden crate from West Barrington Rhode Island.
> 
> ...



Strange in that I found another West Barrington RI crate. But it has 8 bubbles on the short sides and the 3-1-3 pattern on the  long sides.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-UP-crate-/132123746640?hash=item1ec3306150:g:D-AAAOSwB-1YxUSu


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## SODABOB (Mar 15, 2017)

Rich

The Barrington crate is both interesting and confusing. I can't explain the bubble placement, but refuse to believe its a 1968 crate. Speaking of crates, here's one of the Los Angeles 6-73 crates you referred to earlier. Again, I'm having serious doubts the second set of numbers are dates - especially when you take into account that 7up introduced *"The Uncola" *in *1967 *and that most if not all of the crates between about 1967 and 1975 bare the Uncola name and logo ...


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## iggyworf (Mar 15, 2017)

The more I look at crates the more I also think that they might not be dates.(we could be wrong though) I don't know for sure but I think that by the late 60's and beyond they went to the short style wooden crates like this one. And it's from L.A. as well. This one has the #'s 5-69 on the inside as well as the maker of the crate.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Dri...085003?hash=item41be177e8b:g:3RMAAOSwTuJYpJvB


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## Jbeas31 (Mar 17, 2017)

I dont think this has been referenced yet but I found this thread from 2008 Forum member kbobam also has/had a Los Angeles 3-1-3 6 1/2 oz bottle. 

This one has embossed u7p on the neck. 

https://www.antique-bottles.net/showthread.php?180626-7up-Bottle-3-Question&p=180626#post180626


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## iggyworf (Mar 17, 2017)

Nice work Jbeas31! I was coming up empty with more clues. We might not find out why this bubble pattern exists, but still fun researching it.

Here is the comparison of the 3-1-3 & 2-2-3 bottles. The swimsuit girl and the placement of bubbles above her arms. both the girl and bubbles are different. I checked most of my other bottles and they all have the common 2-2-3 style. The bottle from kbobam in your link has to be earlier than 1941 because of the U7P embossing on the neck.




here is that bottle for reference. He doesn't list what yr it is from though.


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## SODABOB (Mar 18, 2017)

Jb

Nice find. Like iggy said, earlier than 1941. Possibly 1936 to 1939. Here are the two bottles side by side, with iggy's on the left ...


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## SODABOB (Mar 18, 2017)

P.S. 

I sent kbobam a personal message asking him about the date and maker of his L.A. bottle and to post a picture of the base. I also attached a link to this thread, so if he gets my message hopefully he will respond.


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## jblaylock (Mar 18, 2017)

I was at Pepsi Fest this weekend and saw a crate with 9 bubbles, crazy.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk


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## iggyworf (Mar 21, 2017)

Josh I have seen matchbook covers with 9 bubbles also.

I have found 2 more items which I think are legit of the 3-1-3 bubble pattern. Now this doesn't solve our query but shows there are other things out there. The sign has the same yr as my bottle.






http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-7-U...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



Could not find any info on this clock. But I did message the seller of that tin sign to ask if he or she remembers anything about it. They currently do not have any items for sale on ebay.


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