# Help identifying bottle with no markings.



## tropichahni (Feb 3, 2017)

I have a bottle which I'm having problems identifying. The bottle has no mould markings on either the bottle or the top. The bottom is very thick and push up a deep push up. I have included as many pictures as I could I may add more pictures in the comment section.


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## tropichahni (Feb 3, 2017)

More images


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## Road Dog (Feb 3, 2017)

Porter 1820-1830


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## tropichahni (Feb 3, 2017)

OK...  Can you help me by explaining what you saw which identified it as Porter.  Also what is the value of a bottle like this? Any ideas?


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## Harry Pristis (Feb 4, 2017)

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Road Dog said:


> Porter 1820-1830



Maybe even a little earlier, I think. "Porter" is a generic term for a tall cylinder wine bottle. Porter is a British ale.  This bottle is much more likely to have held wine.  Value is low for such an early bottle because there are so many of them.  Eye appeal is everything with such bottle . . . condition and "character." Check the "sold" bottles on eBay for current market value, but I'd say it is worth, in good condition and with eye-interest, not more than $20.00.  Correct me if I'm undervaluing the bottle.


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## RIBottleguy (Feb 4, 2017)

In that particular shape and with the uneveness of the glass I think you could get $100 for this bottle.  


http://www.ebay.com/itm/EARLY-FREE-...D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


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## TROG (Feb 5, 2017)

English Ale bottle dating to around 1800


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## Harry Pristis (Feb 5, 2017)

RIBottleguy said:


> In that particular shape and with the uneveness of the glass I think you could get $100 for this bottle.




"Porter" and "ale" are collector-generated labels for these tall cylinder wine bottles.  Wine bottle because the great majority of them contained wine.

A great many over-priced bottles are offered routinely on eBay.  We have to search the completed auctions to gauge the market.  The best match I found (an even earlier example) sold for $9.99.


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## tropichahni (Feb 6, 2017)

Thanks guys. I have several which are much newer and I placed them in an antiques booth at 10 and sold them all really quickly, so I am hoping this one does a little better. Maybe Ebay isn't my best bet in this situation. Thanks again guys for the help. I have so many bottles and the last person I had over to help just tried taking advantage and walked off with some bottles. So I am really glad you are all so helpful.


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## tropichahni (Feb 6, 2017)

I just have one other question... I am having a really hard time understanding pointil. I have read about it and from what I understand it is the rough part where the bottle was broken off the rod when it was being made. I just don't have the trained eye to understand when it is and isn't I am assuming this has one...  Would this be considered pointil?


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## hemihampton (Feb 6, 2017)

Here's a couple pics
 of a pontiled bottom. LEON.


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## saratogadriver (Feb 7, 2017)

Re: pontil.    Look at the bottom pic that you've shown.  You see it sort of has rough glass over much of it.   That is a pontil.  Different than the "blowpipe style" pontils that you see in the aqua bottles above.   But a pontil nonetheless.   There's also iron and graphite pontils, which have a bottom covered in a dull looking material, usually either dark or sort of rust colored, which was from a pontil rod designed to leave a bit of material on the bottom but no broken glass ring.   The pontil on your bottle is pretty consistent with those that you see on bottles of that form.   

Jim G


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## Harry Pristis (Feb 7, 2017)

saratogadriver said:


> Re: pontil.    Look at the bottom pic that you've shown.  You see it sort of has rough glass over much of it.   That is a pontil.  Different than the "blowpipe style" pontils that you see in the aqua bottles above.   But a pontil nonetheless.   There's also iron and graphite pontils, which have a bottom covered in a dull looking material, usually either dark or sort of rust colored, which was from a pontil rod designed to leave a bit of material on the bottom but no broken glass ring.   The pontil on your bottle is pretty consistent with those that you see on bottles of that form.
> Jim G



This is good information from Jim G, except there is no such thing as a "graphite" pontil scar.  This is another collector-generated misnomer stemming from mistaking iron oxide residue for graphite.


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## hemihampton (Feb 7, 2017)

I always thought Iron Oxide residue as you call it was a dark brownish-reddish color while the graphite residue was a different color, more of a dark grayish or charcoal color. Am I wrong? LEON.


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## Harry Pristis (Feb 7, 2017)

On page 48 of his THE ILLUSTRATED GUIDE..., Cecil Munsey says:
"The term 'graphite pontil' is completely inaccurate.  Except for the fact that the mark left by the bare iron pontil is sometimes black, which is the color of graphite, there is no justification for the term."


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## whittled (Feb 8, 2017)

It's like still saying that a pencil is lead, it isn't. Graphite is very slippery and thermally stable, completely unsuitable for bonding glass to a rod..


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## tropichahni (Feb 8, 2017)

Ok got that...  So now is this called open pontil?


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## Harry Pristis (Feb 8, 2017)

"Graphite" pontil is a misnomer for "bare iron pontil" or sometimes "improved pontil."  

"Open pontil" is another term for "blow-pipe pontil."  The "open" refers to the center of the ring of glass which corresponds to the opening of the blow-pipe.


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## hemihampton (Feb 8, 2017)

So when you say Iron Oxide residue is it because it is Iron Oxide that is used in the process. And if so what color is this iron oxide residue. THANKS. LEON.


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## Harry Pristis (Feb 8, 2017)

hemihampton said:


> So when you say Iron Oxide residue is it because it is Iron Oxide that is used in the process. And if so what color is this iron oxide residue. THANKS. LEON.



The iron oxide residue is from the red hot end of the bare iron pontil which is applied directly to the nascent bottle.  The residue is of variable color, often dark gray to black.


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