# Mineral removal/cleaning



## suewait@gmail.com (Jun 20, 2018)

Hello all.... Can someone advise on cleaning jars and vases?  How to I remove mineral scale etc when I can't get my hand in jar?  I have tried SO many things and still have that milky white film!  Thank you in advance.  I want my items to look as nice as all of yours!  

Thank you !  Fun site, my in-laws would have LOVED it here! :flag:


----------



## Robby Raccoon (Jun 20, 2018)

Short answer: the containers have to be professionally "tumbled".

Detailed answer:

*Experimental Data*
In my time of experimenting, I would use inside the bottle:
 wire brushes: staining remained.
sulphuric acid: staining remained, one bottle ended up exploding as it overheated and I set it down on a porcelain surface (temperature difference). 
sand/"grit" in Bar Keeper's Friend and water: staining remained.
other, less volatile cleaning compounds, even mixed: staining remained, toxic gases produced.

*Why does the staining remain? 
*Answer: decomposition of the glass, leaching out silicates into the surrounding environment (contents, burial, water), opens up spaces in the glass for environmental contaminates to move in. Thus, the glass is, basically, fosilised. One mineral moves out, another moves in. It is permanent.

*​Successful Methods of Removing "Mineralisation"*
To remove this staining is to remove the surface layer of the glass. Sanding and heavy polishing can be used, but to get inside the best way to do it is "tumbling" in cutting/polishing compounds with copper pellets. This is expensive but effective, so it is only good for those with monetary means and for the best bottles. 

*Problems with Tumbling*
It does come with a risk of breakage, so you have to consider the element of danger. Good bottles should be handled only by people with experience. Embossing becomes less pronounced-- tumbling removes details. Most tumbled bottles look too clean and perfect to be true, for it removes the natural character of the glass. I don't like it. Other people tumble everything.

So, that is the detailed answer. We do have a section for cleaning bottles.


----------



## WesternPA-collector (Jun 20, 2018)

Spirit Bear said:


> Short answer: the containers have to be professionally "tumbled".
> 
> Detailed answer:
> 
> ...



Also worth mentioning is tumbling can weaken the embossed areas of the glass to the point that it breaks in that section. I had this happen when cleaning a small milk bottle before. Fortunately it wasn't a big loss but it taught me to be more careful.


----------



## JerryN (Jun 27, 2018)

try using denture cleaner. I find it works best if I let it soak for 24 hours.
Jerry


----------



## bottle-o-pop (Dec 31, 2019)

It's difficult to visually tell the difference between:

Mineral scale, etc. deposited on the glass, and
Erosion of glass by mineral waters.
Very often the problem with old glass that's been in the ground is the second one. It means that some surface glass (both interior and exterior) is missing/gone/eroded away. Cleaning will NOT bring the missing glass back! The glass surfaces have micro-pits in them (pits from mineral waters removing the glass), and these pits degrade the gloss of the glass (it doesn't reflect light properly anymore).

Years ago, I bought some wire bottle brushes that have brass bristles. These brushes have to be only about 1/2 inch diameter including the bristles, so that you have plenty of room to put the brush into a soda bottle. The reason for using a brass-bristle brush instead of a steel-bristle brush is that brass is always less hard than glass, so it cannot scratch the glass. Some kinds of steel alloy are harder than glass, and I don't want to take the chance of using hard metals to clean glass.

I quickly learned that, although the brass bristles are occasionally useful to attack things like paint and tar on glass, the bristles are not so good for removing films of dirt since it would take forever to scratch all of it off with bristles. So I cut a half-inch strip of green scrubbing pad, wrapped it over the end of my bottle brush and back up the other side, and then wrapped the whole thing with some nylon twine to keep the pad in place.

To used the pad-augmented bottle brush, I sometimes first put some white vinegar into the bottle, and insert the (wet) padded brass-wire brush and do some rubbing of the interior surface. The vinegar is a weak acid that will dissolve lime film, if there is any (there usually isn't). Vinegar will do almost nothing to ordinary dirt, but cleanser will. After trying the vinegar, I rinse out the bottle.

Next, I wet the pad with water and then cover it with Barkeeper's Friend cleanser and gently push it into the bottle. I bend the wire brush so as to get at the interior parts of the bottle that I need to scrub. You need a thin type of pad because you have to be able to get the whole thing into the bottle.

Similarly to the idea of using brass-bristled brushes is to use Barkeeper's Friend. This cleanser consists of only grit material that is LESS hard than glass. That is extremely important! Some other cleansers have grit that is harder than glass. Most sand, for instance, is made of quartz granules, every one of which will scratch glass.

Tumbling is a different thing. It uses the continuous rubbing of the (again soft) copper shot against the glass to smooth out the pitted surface. It changes the surface of the glass from
this: _--__-___-_ to this: _______.  Note that the tumbling removes a bit more glass, but, it gives a smooth glossy shine back to the glass that the chemicals in the ground had removed.

My tag-line is a bit of a joke on those sellers that want to give you the idea that their already cleaned, hazy bottle "can use a bit of cleaning". There is absolutely no way that bottle-cleaning can reach out into the ground, get some glass, and put it back onto the surfaces of a bottle!


----------



## slugplate (Dec 31, 2019)

I know this sounds like the antithesis for some collectors, but I will never tumble a bottle. If a buyer wants it to be polished, sparkling, and looking like new, that's their choice to do it, I won't. Bottles that are 130-180 years old, that I have in my collection, deserve to look as I found them - of course I give them a good hand cleaning. It's just my hangup and not intended to put down tumblers. It's a personal thing and there will ALWAYS be pro-tumbling or anti-tumbling collectors. Neither is right or wrong, it's just a matter of preference.


----------



## slugplate (Dec 31, 2019)

bottle-o-pop said:


> It's difficult to visually tell the difference between:
> 
> Mineral scale, etc. deposited on the glass, and
> Erosion of glass by mineral waters.
> ...


Exactly right. There is a myriad of reasons for staining, rust and lime scale deposits, glass erosion, etc. that only the most highly experienced bottle cleaners can make a dent in. However, sometimes no matter what you do it's just not going to help. Personally, I try to make as best looking as I can with hand cleaning alone. Historical artifacts are rarely pristine... it's the same thing for me when I see bottles in an antique shop. If it's too good to be true, it probably is.


----------

