# DR. PEPPER PORCELAIN SIGN



## SODAPOPBOB (May 14, 2011)

An antique dealer I know, who keeps her eyes peeled for items she thinks I might be interested in, called me the other day and said she had a Dr. Pepper sign for me to look at. So I went to her shop, checked out the sign, and bought it. The only thing she knew about it was that the person she bought it from said it came off of an old Dr. Pepper cooler. Whether this is accurate information or not, I may never know for certain. I even called the dealer back on the phone when I got home and had more questions, but there was nothing more she could tell me about it. She didn't even know the individuals name who she bought it from.

 I know they reproduced some of these types of signs, but there is no indication that I could come up with that mine is anything but original. The one thing that concerned me most was the fact that it doesn't have a manufacture's name printed on it. But I have since learned that even though the majority of these types of signs did show a Mfg. name, not all of them did. Especially in the case of those which were mounted to coolers, as you will see shortly in the pictures to follow. 

 The sign measures 16" W x 6" H   There are four mounting holes, one in each corner. It has a heavy porcelain finish. It has lost some of it's gloss, which may or may not be due to sun exposure. I will never know this aspect about it for certain, nor if in fact it actually did come off of a cooler. But I do know that some coolers sat outdoors. Included here is a picture of the sign itself, followed by a few others that are related. At present I am dating it late 1930s to early 1940s. It has the dot in DR., which I can't recall at the moment when it was dropped from use, but I intend to research this further. The sign has suffered some porcelain chipping and rusting, but otherwise is in pretty good shape.   

 SODAPOPBOB


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 14, 2011)

Closeup of lower left corner ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 14, 2011)

Picture of a Dr. Pepper cooler showing a similar sign mounted in framework ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 14, 2011)

From my soda pop book ...


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 14, 2011)

I forgot to mention that many of these types of signs were made by "Texlite" of Dallas, Texas, which is often visible near the bottom corners. Mine has no name on it whatsoever.

 SPBOB


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## TJSJHART (May 14, 2011)

LOOKA ORIGINAL TO ME,,VERY NICE ,,ONLY PROBLEM I CAN SEE NOW IS TO FIND A SODA MACHINE TO ATTACH IT TO.     http://soda-machines.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1   TRY THIS PLACE,,,


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## TJSJHART (May 14, 2011)

LOOKS ORIGINAL TO ME VERY NICE FIND . THE ONLY PROBLEM I CAN SEE IS FINDIN A MACHINE TO ATTACH IT TO..   http://soda-machines.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1  TRY THIS SITE


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## celerycola (May 14, 2011)

I think it's real but it could be fake.


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 14, 2011)

For those who wish to do so, and especially those who are familiar with these types of signs, I would be interested in hearing opinions on what you think something like this is worth. Let's assume for the moment that it's original, and base your estimates along those lines. I have done some additional research and discovered that similar Dr. Pepper signs came in a wide variety of sizes. But based on what I have see, it doesn't appear that size is a major factor when determining values. I have seen values range anywhere between about $75.00 to about $500.00. What say you? Once enough opinions are shared I will disclose what I actually paid for it.

 Thanks in advance to those who choose to participate in this little poll of mine.

 SPBOB


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## cyberdigger (May 14, 2011)

Nifty sign, Bob!
 I can't imagine it being anything other than an original. No idea on value, but I'd think the damage knocks it down somewhat..


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 14, 2011)

Regarding the question as to when Dr Pepper discontinued the period "." in Dr ... the following will answer the question for us. I am also including a link to the site for those who have not seen it yet, and would like to read and see some really cool Dr Pepper stuff.

 SODA"PEPPER"BOB  []

 Link:  http://www.digitaldeliftp.com/LookAround/advertspot_drpepper.htm





 [align=center]






[/align]

 "Note that there is no period after the "Dr" in Dr Pepper. This fact is acknowledged in the Associated Press Stylebook. I know this because I am the person responsible for having it included back in the early 1970s. The reason there is no period is the result of an italicized type face used in the early 1950s. The period after the "r" appeared to look like a colon because of the font used. The result appeared to be "Di: Pepper". Not only was the period dropped, but the font was soon changed. There is really no reason for a period since we're not a member of the medical profession, or even degreed.."

 -- _Jim Ball (Sr. V.P. Corporate Communications
 At Dr Pepper)_


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## Eric (May 14, 2011)

Post this sign on Soda-Machines.com they will know for sure...
 I say reproduction from 80s
 Several of the guys there restore machine... this looks like the one that went on
 a Atlas (but all of them are marked and have six mounting holes) And the correct
 sign for the Vendo 81 has the block letters... 
 But someone on that site will know.


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## splante (May 15, 2011)

do not know much about signs, would think its orig...would they fake it in porcelain, or would it be just tin, any other markings on the back that might date or show mfg?


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## Eric (May 15, 2011)

There are several reproduction signs made in porcelain... They've become quite a
 problem in the Gas/Oil collecting world Some are made by the Andy Rooney Co.
 There are several in the Soda collecting world also such as this Dr Pepper
 Others include Coca-Cola, Pepsi Grapette and 7UP usually these are smaller in size.
 Their not bad... I've seen several on machines that have been restored needing
 a sign to finish the restoration... But unfortunantly there are folks out there
 that chip them up, and/or leave them outside to â€œage themâ€ if in doubt pass them by
 unless the price is something you can live with and you like the sign for display
 and not investment.


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## splante (May 16, 2011)

I guess when $$$ are involved someone always trys to cash in, I need to educate myself more on how to spot fakes or repro's, noticed for example a lot of the repro coke trays will have a date on the back usally in the 1990's. Sodapopbob I have a book that shows a sim sign for $275.00


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 16, 2011)

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I may never know for certain if my sign is a genuine original or a reproduction. But I will admit I have some concerns about. The three most notable of which are ...

 1. Mine only has four mounting holes. Not all, but the majority I've seen have six holes.
 2. Mine doesn't have a manufacturer's name or mark of any kind. Most have "Texlite, Dallas."
 3. Mine is made of heavy steel plate. Which may have been the norm for cooler mounted signs. I'm
 just not sure. But most of the ones I've seen are made of tin.

 And as for the amount I paid for it, the antique dealer said for me to make her an offer. At the time it was a buy it now situation or else she was going to place it in her display case. Plus, neither one of us could say for sure if it was real or fake. She offered no guarantees. Nor did I know at the time whether an original was worth $50.00 or $500.00. But when she finally told me she had only paid $20.00 for it herself, (which I was surprised to hear her confess) I offered her $30.00, which she accepted and it was a done deal. So even if it does turn out to be a reproduction, I still like it and it makes a nice display piece. Plus, I don't think I got stung too bad at $30.00. Of course, if in time I discover that it is in fact real, I think I can get at least $100.00 for it.  I suppose only with time and more research will I never know for sure.

 Hopefully discussions like this will help others in the furture when trying to decide ... "Real vs Fake"

 As a side note to this, it always amazes me to discover how many antique dealers just price their items based on what they paid for them. But I suppose we can't expect them to research and know every detail of the hundreds of items they deal with on a regular basis. Sometimes this sort of thing works to our advantage, and sometimes not. 

 Thanks again to all,

 SPBOB


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 16, 2011)

Here's a Dr. Pepper sign currently on e-bay. It's described as being a reproduction and made of metal. And even though it's a repro, it isn't exactly like the one I bought. The e-bay sign measures 14" X 6" Mine measures "16" X 6"  Plus, the e-bay example shows the four mounting holes in slightly different positions, which touch the white corners, and inserts that appear to be aluminum. My inserts are tarnished, but appear to be something other than aluminum. The e-bay sign looks like a reproduction (newish) but mine does not.

 SPBOB

 E-bay Link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370509825154&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

 E-Bay Sign:


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 16, 2011)

Here's my sign again for comparison ...


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## LC (May 16, 2011)

Signs are a tricky thing at times . A couple of weeks ago I viewed a porcelain oil sign for sale on Craigs List . It was a die cut sign , and I really liked it . The price was a hundred and twenty five dollars . I did not think there would have been a sign the size of it ever reproduced and was ready to buy it . At the last minute I asked the fellow if he knew whether or not it was a reproduction , and to my surprise he told me it was indeed a reproduction . I really appreciated him being honest like that . If he had said he didn't know , I probably would have went ahead and bought it . I do not care at all for reproduction signs or any other type of reproduction for that matter .

 From what I can see of yours , it sure shows a good bit of wear to it . I would think a repop would be worth thirty , my guess is it would still have a bit of age to it . And like you said , if it is a good one , you cleaned up nicely .


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## jays emporium (May 17, 2011)

Bob,
 I think your sign is original.  I remember removing signs like that from old coolers myself in the 1970's.  My value estimate is $125 - $150.
 Jay


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2011)

Jay ~

 Gracias' Amigo. That's exactally what I wanted to hear. However, I'm still stuck with the slight quandry of ..........    is it really, really, really real?  And if I were to offer it for sale, how do I prove it? These questions apply not only to myself, but others as well who might someday find themselves in a similar situation. I wonder what someone like the Antiques Roadshow people would have to say about it? And how do those Roadshow appraisers know so much when every top soda pop related collector in the world (namely, Antique-Bottles.net members - myself included) can't say definitively one way or the other about some of this maybe-it's-real-maybe-it's-fake kind of stuff? What do they know that we don't?

 So to answer my own question, and based on the number of opinions already posted, including my own, I give the sign the following score ...

 Real @ 65%
 Fake @ 35%

 Would anyone here purchase it for, say, $75.00 based on the 'opinion' percentages above?

 Thanks again to all.

 Signed ... "Frosty"


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2011)

P.S. ~

 Just to clarify ...

 I didn't mean to make it sound as if my sign is for sale at $75.00. But rather, if you saw one just like it in an antique shop or elsewhere, would you purchase it for $75.00, with the "possibility" of it being worth considerably more?  Besides, it wasn't I who posted that last message anyway, it was the Dr Pepper dog, Frosty.  Lol  []

 Thanks again,

 Bob


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## OsiaBoyce (May 17, 2011)

$75.00 for a fake sign..............not hardly.

 You can buy the same sign new from Ande Rooney for less than  $20.00. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWzROoxS2b4&feature=related


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2011)

Osia ~

 Based on your comments it gives the impression that you have some knowledge about soda pop signs. So are you going on record as saying you are 100% certain that the one under discussion here is a fake? And if this is your claim, then please enlighten the rest of us as to how you know this? I'm sure it would benifit everyone who has read through and followed this thread to know just exactly how to identify a genuine original sign from a reproduction fake.

 Thanks in advance. We will look forward to your much appreciated comments and observations.

 SPBOB


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## celerycola (May 17, 2011)

http://www.anderooney.com/Graphics/dplifeLarge.gif


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2011)

The Ande Rooney sign measures 18" x 7 1/4"

 My sign measures exactly 16" x 6"

 SPBOB 




 (18"x7 1/4")
Dr Pepper Good For Life, Item #CH158
 Price $21.50

 Quantity:*Order this item
*Free Shipping[/b]
 over $50.00[/b]


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## celerycola (May 17, 2011)

But Ande Rooney offers FREE SHIPPING!


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 17, 2011)

... but only on orders over $50.00  []


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## OsiaBoyce (May 17, 2011)

It's faded.

 Porcelain will not fade.

 Baked on enamel will.

 Porcelain is as you and I know a "type" of glass.

 Glass does not fade.

 As far as experence w/ signs go.................

 Started collecting signs at the tender age 9. By the time I had reached 39 I had obtained some 83. Auto-Oil-Gas [mostly porcelain] and Soda [though mostly tin].

 A house fire in 98 put a damper on the sign collecting as well as growing competition put them out of my price range. What was once free was now comanding thousands.

 The largest majority of my signs survived the fire, blackened and soot covered. I left them exposed [ the housed burnt to the ground might as well say] to clean up. Junk haulers came by, and you can guess what happened.

 I saved a few however. Since that time the years of rain have washed off the soot and ya know what? They're still not faded. Through house fire and sun.

 That's how I know.


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## Eric (May 18, 2011)

I agree with OsiaBoyce... That is a reproduction the word  â€œDRINKâ€ is different
 and slightly in a different placing. The reproduction signs are also flat... the originals
 that came off a machine have a rim around them (the middle of the sign is raised)
 Porcelian can fade/oxidize... a lot of Coke buttom signs out there baking too long in
 the sun... these reproduction signs are thin... the thin coloring fades fast... The real
 signs have six mounting holes.. the reproductions I've seen have 4. I've seen
 different  reproduction signs over the years and some vary in size... probably
 due to material and pricing to reproduce and/or different manufactures.
 Still a nice display... And if you're happy that's all that counts.


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## epackage (May 18, 2011)

Two VERY different signs when you see them together.....Jim


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## epackage (May 18, 2011)

No paint between the p's and many other differences...too many to mention for me, have fun...Jim


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## splante (May 18, 2011)

heres a link out of a few i googled that trys to explainfn some of the aspects of finding a fake or real sign

 http://reviews.ebay.com/Antique-and-Vintage-Signs-Is-it-a-Find-or-a-Fake_W0QQugidZ10000000001628751


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

~  SUMMARIZATION ~

                        Thanks to everyone who shared their observations and opinions 

                                                        { I'LL BE BACK! }

                                                                SPBOB

 SPBOB:  I know they reproduced some of these types of signs but there is no indication that I could come up with that mine is anything but original. The one thing that concerned me most was the fact that it doesn't have a manufacture's name printed on it. But I have since learned that even though the majority of these types of signs did show a Mfg. Name, not all of them did.[/align] [/align]TJSJHART:  LOOKS ORIGINAL TO ME VERY NICE FIND.[/align] [/align]Celerycola:  I think it's real but it could be fake.[/align] [/align]Cyberdigger:  Nifty sign, Bob!  I can't imagine it being anything other than an original.[/align] [/align]Eric:  I say reproduction from 80s.[/align] [/align]Splante:   do not know much about signs would think its orig...would they fake it in porcelain or would it be just tin?[/align] [/align]Eric:  There are several reproduction signs made in porcelain... They've become quite a 
 Problem in the Gas/Oil collecting world Some are made by the Andy Rooney Co.[/align] [/align]Splante:  Sodapopbob I have a book that shows a sim sign for $275.00.[/align] [/align]SPBOB:  Thanks to everyone for your comments. I may never know for certain if my sign is a genuine original or a reproduction. But I will admit I have some concerns about. The three most notable of which are ... [/align] [/align]1. Mine only has four mounting holes. Not all but the majority I've seen have six holes. 
 2. Mine doesn't have a manufacturer's name or mark of any kind. Most have "TexliteDallas." 
 3. Mine is made of heavy steel plate. Which may have been the norm for cooler mounted signs. I'm just not sure. But most of the ones I've seen are made of tin.[/align] [/align]L C :  From what I can see of yours it sure shows a good bit of wear to it . I would think a repop would be worth thirty my guess is it would still have a bit of age to it . And like you said if it is a good one you cleaned up nicely .[/align] [/align]Jays emporium:  Bob I think your sign is original.  I remember removing signs like that from old coolers myself in the 1970's.  My value estimate is $125 - $150.[/align] [/align]SPBOB:  Jay ~  Gracias' Amigo. That's exactally what I wanted to hear. However I'm still stuck with the slight quandry of .......... Is it really really really real?[/align] [/align]OsiaBoyce:  $75.00 for a fake sign..............not hardly. You can buy the same sign new from Ande Rooney for less than  $20.00.[/align] [/align]SPBOB:  The Ande Rooney sign measures 18" x 7 1/4"  My sign measures exactly 16" x 6"[/align] [/align]OsiaBoyce:  It's faded. Porcelain will not fade. Baked on enamel will. Porcelain is as you and I know a "type" of glass. Glass does not fade.[/align] [/align]Eric:  I agree with OsiaBoyce... That is a reproduction the word â€œDRINKâ€ is different 
 And slightly in a different placing. The reproduction signs are also flat... The originals 
 That came off a machine have a rim around them (the middle of the sign is raised) 
 Porcelian can fade/oxidize... A lot of Coke buttom signs out there baking too long in 
 The sun... These reproduction signs are thin... The thin coloring fades fast... The real 
 Signs have six mounting holes.. The reproductions I've seen have 4. I've seen 
 Different reproduction signs over the years and some vary in size... Probably 
 Due to material and pricing to reproduce and/or different manufactures. 
 Still a nice display... And if you're happy that's all that counts.[/align] [/align]Epackage:  Two VERY different signs when you see them together..... No paint between the p's and many other differences...too many to mention for me have fun...Jim[/align]


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## LC (May 18, 2011)

I have been sitting here trying to think back about someone saying once that an old sign had gromets in the holes and the newer signs didn't . But I had an old Refiners gas sign out of Dayton , Ohio once , and there were no gromets in it in any of the holes on the sign . Then too they could have fell out over the years . Has anyone ever heard that before concerning gromets being in the holes of the old signs ?


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

Had I not just recently made a donation to the forum, I likely would not post so many pages (13 total)of the same sign. But as it is my honest hope that this thread will serve us now as well as collectors in the furture as the definitive reference for this particular Dr. Pepper sign, I feel compeled to do so as a matter of historical record.

 Following are 13 examples of signs similar to the one under discussion here. All 13 are from actual auction sales and include both the selling price as well as the date sold. All 13 were described as being original. They vary both in size as well as time period of production, which typically date between the 1930s and 1940s.

 By posting them for your examination I believe they will establish definitively that my sign is ...

                                                    (To be determined soon)  

*Dr. Pepper "brick/tile background" Porcelain Signs - circa 1930s/40s*

*                                              #1 Sold July 21, 2007 for $225.00*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*# 2 ... $200 - 7-26-08*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#3 ... $550 - 9-3-07*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#4 ... $330 - 2-4-06*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#5 ... $300 - 5-30-08*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#6 ... $250 - 4-17-04*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#7 ... $110 - 4-17-07*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#8 ...  $300  7-26-08*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#9 ...  $200  7-19-08*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#10 ...  $200  3-19-05*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#11 ...  $150  6-10-06*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*#12 ...  $800 Near Mint  9-1-05*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

*Lucky #13 ...  $30.00   May-13-2011  []*


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

~ Conclusion ~

 1.  The first 12 all have 6 mounting holes.
 2.  The first 12 all show red through the openings in the letters.
 3.  The first 12 all have the word "Drink" directly over the first small 'p' 
 4.  The first 12 all appear to have retained their original color and gloss.
 5.  Most have a manufacturer's name on it. (Typically "Texlite")

 6.  The exception to the marjority rule above is with sign #13  

 SPBOB

                                                  "All for one and one for all"


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## splante (May 18, 2011)

really hame to do my homework before I buy any signs, a local store has a nice Coke sign nearby its about  16 wide by 35 to 40 tall looks like tin, they wanted $275.00 when I said that was out of my range she said come back  when the owner of the shop is around maybe make a deal.

  anyway I noticed on the pics you posted #'s 3,4,5,6,8 and 10 seem to have some type of text on them maybe mfg co info, can you make them out I tired to zoom in but to blurry


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## SODAPOPBOB (May 18, 2011)

splante ~

 The majority of the signs have TEXLITE-DALLAS in the lower right corner.

 A few of them have REG. U.S. PAT. OFF. in the center beneath the wording.

 One has what appears to be W.F.R. in the lower right corner.

 The cardboard sign which depicts George Washington crossing the Delaware River is original and sold for $1,300.00.

 If you would like to read some really interesting stuff about porcelain sign collecting, check out this January of 2009 interview with advanced collector Michael Bruner ...

 Link:  
http://www.collectorsweekly.com/articles/an-interview-with-porcelain-advertising-sign-collector-michael-bruner/

 SPBOB
 [/align]


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## splante (May 19, 2011)

this one just showed up on ebay
 http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-1930s-40s-Dr-Pepper-Embossed-Sign-69-x33-/220783236811?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3367b4d6cb


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