# Blue pontiled ink found in NY



## stonebottle (Oct 15, 2007)

Hello.  Found this ink in NY state near an old foundation.  I was looking for stoneware but found this.  Any ideas on color, age, value, etc. would be appreciated.  It is 12-sided, has a jagged open pontil, and appears to be cornflower blue or some shade of blue.  Thanks all.  stonebottle.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 15, 2007)

Here is a picture of the pontil.  I do not know that much about about inks but I think this one is pretty unusual and would be very interested in anyone's opinion.  It was a lucky find.  Thanks. stonebottle


----------



## madpaddla (Oct 15, 2007)

Got that right.  Welcome to the forum and you came in with a BANG !  Not sure on inks here.  Starrting value would be 35 +.  Nice find and keep us posted on other digs.  Once again welcome.
 Madpaddla


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 15, 2007)

One last picture of the bottle in the sunlight.  It is really a odd shade of blue.  It appears to be in mint condition.  The foundation it was near was really old, there was no cement or mortor on the stones, they were just stacked on top of each other.


----------



## GuntherHess (Oct 15, 2007)

We I'd say you could trade that for some nice stoneware[]
 Its a bit hard to tell from that photo but it appears to be 1850-1860 period, maybe a bit earlier.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 15, 2007)

Thanks guys.  Madpadlla I would have answered you on that ginger beer but was out of town.  That one is definately American and likely New England due to the blue top/writing combo.  It is not listed in the books I have.  That is a very good stoneware bottle.


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 15, 2007)

its a 12 sided ink and with no damage is worth some money. hold on to it. thats a hard color to dig.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 15, 2007)

Here is the pic. in the sunlight.


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 15, 2007)

you need to get a picture indoors and a pic in natural light. the natural light one you have is a little blurry. id say its a medium cobalt. but hard to tell without an indoor pic with a lot of light.


----------



## Tony14 (Oct 15, 2007)

That is a heck of an ink! In that color that thing has to be somewhere near 100 sorry lobey haha. I dont know too much about inks though. There will be someone along sooner or later that knows more than me haha


----------



## bottlediger (Oct 15, 2007)

now that is one I would like to have if you are selling it, the crew and I dug an open pontil ink in that exact shade about 4 months ago. I will offer 200 if you want to get rid of it and it has no damage

 Digger ry


----------



## dollarbill (Oct 15, 2007)

Great find very nice color way to go stonebottle . Good luck diggen and finding . bill


----------



## tigue710 (Oct 16, 2007)

400 plus easy... nice find!


----------



## cowseatmaize (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm gonna start looking for stoneware. I went to a yard sale to look for bottles and came home with a crock. Reverse psychology? 
  Really nice ink!


----------



## cobaltbot (Oct 16, 2007)

Sure is purdy! I bet that made your day!


----------



## Dansalata (Oct 16, 2007)

a beauty fer sure, excellent find!!!


----------



## otgb (Oct 16, 2007)

i have an extra lomax


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks all.  I am not ready to sell the ink at this time, but I am interested in finding out as much as I can so I can decide what to do with it.  By the way, it was found in northern NY state on an old backroad near a foundation, not near any city or large town.  The reason I was digging was because my brother dug a shard of a "DLO & Son" stoneware bottle the day before.  He also found an ink embossed "CPC" which is smooth-bottomed and paneled and 3 inches tall, aqua.  I do not have a good picture of it.  Anyone know the age, value, etc.  Is it "Cross Pen Company"?  Here is also another outdoor picture of my pontiled ink.  I would not call it cobalt, but what do you think??


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 16, 2007)

Here now is another indoor picture, showing what I would call the true color.  All opinions welcome.  The pontil is clearly visible also.  Thanks. stonebottle


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 16, 2007)

This is the embossing on the "CPC" ink.  I do not have a better picture, sorry.  It is 3 inches tall, aqua, smooth base, 12 small panels.  Any ideas??  It was found 3 feet from the pontiled ink, but looks quite a bit newer.  I was hoping someone recognizes the shape and "CPC" because I do not have a better picture.  The bottle is now in NY and I am in PA.  I saw one that sold on ebay in the last month for only $9.99 but that seems low.  My brother found it and is interested in any info.  He will be heading back to dig the area again very soon!!


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 16, 2007)

thanks for the pics stonebottle. it really gives people an idea of the true color when we are not holding it. Harrisons Columbia Ink used a similar mold but not the exact same one. The unembossed variation is a bit rarer. As discussed among my fellow diggers, we think it is NJ or NY made. but thats a theory.

 Matt.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 16, 2007)

Thanks Philabottles.  Any idea on value?  I am not hooked on what something is worth, but would like to know for possible future trade value.  Also, here is an ebay picture of a "CPC" ink like my brother found.  This is not a great picture, his is definately aqua, but at least this gives you an idea.  Sorry to get off-topic but I would like to give my bro. an idea on his "CPC" ink also.  Thanks for all your help.


----------



## otgb (Oct 16, 2007)

Hi stonebottles
 CPC is a perfume not an ink they come in all different colors.if i remember right it is colgate perfume company


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 16, 2007)

never dug or noticed CPC inks before. thats a new one for me. 

 never be afraid to say that you want to know the value. your ink is worth $350-$500 free of damage. In about ten years you'll regret getting rid of it unless you do trade for something that will increase in value the same. values keep our hobby alive. there is a chance that someone will dig a hole filled with that ink in that mold and there is a chance there wont be anymore dug for 20 years. those are the types of things that determine value.

 Matt.


----------



## GuntherHess (Oct 16, 2007)

> colgate perfume company


 
 Colgate and Co Perfumers used a C&Co  monogram. 
 California Perfume Company maybe?? I would have guessed ink too by the shape. 


 edit... CPC info, not sure thats the answer...
http://www.californiaperfumecompany.net/cpc_company/company_pages/cpc_trademarks_and_logos.htm


----------



## otgb (Oct 16, 2007)

i thought they were inks to but i dug one last spring with the atomizer still attached it had cpc on the brass part. i gave it to a friend
 next time i talk to him i will get him to take a picture of it.we dig them here in cobalt and teal green


----------



## amblypygi (Oct 16, 2007)

> ORIGINAL:  otgb
> 
> i thought they were inks to but i dug one last spring with the atomizer still attached ...


 
 I dunno; there's pretty strong evidence that these are inks. Covill 156-159 have the same embossing and three of those are labeled as fountain pen ink. He also lists 2 master inks (C-831 and C-832) that are the same design and too big to be perfumes. Are you sure it's an atomizer? Was the glass part identical to these CPC bottles? Another good mystery!

 Sean


----------



## otgb (Oct 16, 2007)

sean   the bottles we dig are the same we dig them in two size's  but i have not dug them in aqua mostly teal green and the odd cobalt one
 nobody seems to want to pay to much for them so when we dig i dont take them in the pick


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 16, 2007)

> i dont take them in the pick


 
 id probably pick it over a marble


----------



## otgb (Oct 16, 2007)

that depends on the marble


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 16, 2007)

yes it does, but i dont have one of those.


----------



## otgb (Oct 16, 2007)

if you want one that bad i can probably pick you one up


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 16, 2007)

lol its OK. ill just wait till we dig one.


----------



## Oldtimer (Oct 16, 2007)

1, it's gorgeous.
 2, it's worth $400+ all day IMO. Condition is key.
 3, I'd call it "Deep Ice Blue" if I were asked to name the color.
 4, Get your ass back out there and _*root*_ that place up like a starving hog.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 16, 2007)

Oldtimer and everyone.  Thanks again.  The pontil has the small round central area, but also has a sort of a rounded area of missing glass with a small skin of overhanging glass along one edge.  This area is connected to the central pontil, and appears to be part of the pontil mark from when the rod was removed.  You can see it pretty good in the picture I posted of the bottle bottom.  Would this affect value in a positive or negative way??  Would it even be considered undesirable??  Does it make it a different form of pontil??  stonebottle


----------



## cobaltbot (Oct 16, 2007)

Where's Taz???


----------



## GuntherHess (Oct 16, 2007)

> Does it make it a different form of pontil??


 
 Ya, a Holy Pontil []
 Unfortunatly, glass thickness varied greatly in these early bottles. Sometimes its so thin you can put your finger through it. I would guess a defect like that does adversely affect the value but it probably still a desirable piece since cobalt pontil marked stuff is so rare.


----------



## Oldtimer (Oct 16, 2007)

Generally speaking, the rougher and cruder a pontil, the better it is. Crudity is always desireable.


----------



## GuntherHess (Oct 16, 2007)

maybe I didnt understand but it sounded like he was saying there was actually a hole where the pontil mark was???


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 17, 2007)

nope...just an open pontil. []


----------



## JOETHECROW (Oct 17, 2007)

I'd say it's prussian blue. I saw a wyeth dose cup at Keene that was the same color...Also Jeff and Holly Nordstrom had a similar if not identical ink for sale there marked MUCH higher...I cannot swear to it but I thought it was marked 450?...just not sure now...
                                                                                       Joe


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 17, 2007)

sure joe. 450 is fair retail price that can be haggled. 300-500 would be an auction estimate. and that does not include ebay.


----------



## kungfufighter (Oct 17, 2007)

Good morning Joe.  It's actually Noordsy and not Nordstrom.  We do have a similar ink but ours is embossed "Harrison's Columbian Ink" and it is in fact much more expensive.  I think that the $300 to $500 estimate folks have given for this ink is a fair one...

 Jeff


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 17, 2007)

Thanks for your replys and for verifying the value.  The open area on the bottom I talked about does not go through the bottle, it is not a hole.  It is really just a small area of glass that extends the pontil mark.  When I get back up to NY we are going to look for the privy.  This is far out in the countryside and will likely be hard to locate.  But I know it is worth a try.  By the way, my brother also found a shade of green "From The Laboratory of/G.W. Merchant/Lockport NY" hinge mold in the same area.  It is also mint and he will not part with it for any price.  I did not dig very much in the past, but I am really getting interested now.  stonebottle


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 17, 2007)

keep us posted!

 kungfu...the unembossed variation is actually a little rarer than the similar looking "Harrison's Columbian Ink". but they are two different molds.


----------



## kungfufighter (Oct 17, 2007)

I am not referring to the cylindrical "hockey puck" Harrison's but rather the rare sided one.  You can see it here:

 http://www.jeffnholantiquebottles.com/webpages/Item6965.html


----------



## kungfufighter (Oct 17, 2007)

I should clarify and note that this MOLD is not rare in itself as there are many known aqua examples but only a handful or less in blue...


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 17, 2007)

i        know            thats why i said RARER....not "Its RARE" []


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 17, 2007)

wait im confused are you talking about the harrisons or commenting on what i said about the unembossed on?

 daah


----------



## kungfufighter (Oct 17, 2007)

I am saying that the sided, unembossed blue ink is less common than the cylindrical Harrison's but not nearly as uncommon (or "rare") as the sided blue Harrison's.  Simply making this point to explain to Joe why the blue sided ink he saw at Keene (which is in fact embossed "Harrison's") was priced much higher than the value you and others have correctly ascribed to the unembossed blue ink.


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 17, 2007)

daah good job. sorry i gave you the headache. []


----------



## kungfufighter (Oct 17, 2007)

Not a problem at all.  Just wanted to clarify.  It's easy for these threads to get confusing...


----------



## tigue710 (Oct 17, 2007)

o.k. now I'm confused...  Hey Jeff, you selling that tree flask I looked at?


----------



## kungfufighter (Oct 17, 2007)

Shoot Matt, I think you are referring to the Kednsington GI-41 and that went out in today's mail.  I still have some great flasks left but I've sold a whole bunch of 'em since Hecklers.  You can see what's still available here:

 http://www.jeffnholantiquebottles.com/webpages/Flasks.html

 Jeff


----------



## JOETHECROW (Oct 17, 2007)

> ORIGINAL: kungfufighter
> 
> Good morning Joe.  It's actually Noordsy and not Nordstrom.  We do have a similar ink but ours is embossed "Harrison's Columbian Ink" and it is in fact much more expensive.  I think that the $300 to $500 estimate folks have given for this ink is a fair one...
> 
> Jeff


[8|] Sorry for the miscue!...( and if I misidentified your ink as well....)I held it briefly and carefully, and somehow overlooked the embossing?!...maybe I just experienced a 'senior moment'...
                                                                        Thank you..   Joe


----------



## JOETHECROW (Oct 17, 2007)

[] Okay...now I understand...I followed the link,....yes that was the beautiful little ink I looked at...I'd say I was dazzled by the color and stunned by the price,...( and probably worth every penny!)[]


----------



## tigue710 (Oct 17, 2007)

thats the one, I saw it was on hold yesterday, (I check in often[]).  Like I was saying I cant really buy for myself right now but I was starting to talk myself into calling you on that one!  O-well, not to common but not rare either...  That was a superb example though.  It's going hurt more seeing that yellow tree tree go at the end of the month.  Might be many years before I see another one of those...


----------



## PhilaBottles (Oct 17, 2007)

[sm=lol.gif]


----------



## kungfufighter (Oct 18, 2007)

Not a problem at all Joe.  In all fairness the embossing IS on the light side so I can see how you would have missed that in all the Keene excitement.  I simply wanted to make the point that the estimate given for the non-embossed ink was a fair one and not have anyone be confused by the Harrison's we had listed on our webpage.


----------



## lexdigger (Oct 19, 2007)

Here's one I glued back together for a friend. A rock smashed it. At least it wasn't the rare sided one!


----------



## lexdigger (Oct 19, 2007)

It was in three pieces and went back together perfect, other than the cracks! Oh well, they can't all be mint.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 20, 2007)

That is a very nice ink and looks like a similar color to the one I found.  Since we are talking about rarity, would my ink be considered to be rare because it is 12-sided instead of 8-sided???  It looks like most of the embossed versions have 8 sides, not 12.  Any opinions??  Thanks, the response to this bottle has been great.  stonebottle.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 23, 2007)

I have been researching this bottle and cannot find ANY reference to a 12-sided blue ink of this type.  There are 8-sided types, but no 12-sided that are blue like mine.  Does anyone know of one being sold or at least seen??  I have also seen references to "stoddard-type" inks that are 12-sided but not blue.  Would my ink be of this type??  Any response is appreciated.  stonebottle


----------



## bearswede (Oct 24, 2007)

If you haven't already, look in "Ink Bottles and Inkwells" by Covill, if you can find a copy...

 Ron


----------



## amblypygi (Oct 24, 2007)

Ron's right, Covill lists an ink very similar to yours but in light green as C# 550. He lists no 12-sided inks in that blue though.

 Sean


----------



## tigue710 (Oct 26, 2007)

oops


----------



## beendiggin (Oct 27, 2007)

One very lucky day years ago my brother and I dug a pocket of pontillled bottles, including this ink. Thought it would make a nice comparison to that beauty of a blue one.


----------



## beendiggin (Oct 27, 2007)

This is the pontil


----------



## bearswede (Oct 27, 2007)

Very, very nice, Paul!!!

 Ron


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 27, 2007)

That green ink is a very nice one.  It does look very much like my blue one with yours possibly having a slightly taller neck.  What state did you find it in, and was it found with 1840's or 1850's bottles??  I think that is the first similar 12-sided ink I have seen a picture of.  stonebottle


----------



## earlyglass (Oct 27, 2007)

Nice inks! The 12 sided inks are typically pretty scarce in comparison to the 8 sided umbrella, however they seem to be more plentiful in the straight-sided versions. They come in a number of different sizes, shapes and colors. Here are a my examples. I collect New England glass and I am pretty confident that these are from the region. I can't speculate on where your ink was produced, but blue is not typical for New England glasshouse (other than Sandwich). If I were to guess... I would say that it was produced at the Lancaster Glassworks, NY, 1840-50. It is a rare and beautiful ink. If you decide to sell it, put it up for private auction in this forum, otherwise you should put it on a shelf for a while and enjoy it!

 Mike


----------



## beendiggin (Oct 27, 2007)

Stonebottle, these were dug as a group in Maine. it was in the basement of an old ship captains home, I was lightly probing a grid pattern when I finally heard glass. Apparently a floorboard had been used as a trap door for trash and it was about 4 feet long by a foot wide. There was no sign of the floor anymore until I scraped a little dirt away, then the wood fibers showed up. Under that was an eight or ten inch layer of bottles. 30 or so in all, most were broken. Most were not pontilled but these are. I also got an aqua Harrisons Columbian Ink pontilled, which I sold to Bob Heath. I kept these, knowing it would be a long time coming before I would get a day like that again. Bob thought that the green bottles were possibly Keene. The other two are definitely Stoddard, as the cone has the "X" on the base, and the colors are a perfect match.


----------



## beendiggin (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks, Ron..I really did hit it that day and I know how lucky I am.


----------



## stonebottle (Oct 28, 2007)

Those really are a great group of bottles and a good story to go along with it.  My bottle was about 20 feet from an old foundation, along traces of what was left of an old road.  This was on a back road that gets very little traffic.  We only found one other pontiled bottle.  It was a medicine with embossing but it was shattered and I could not make out what it had on it.  I was really hoping for a stoneware bottle but I guess it turns out this ink is even better.  So far I have still not heard that anyone owns a 12-sided ink of that blue color, so that makes it even more interesting.  stonebottle


----------



## blade (Oct 11, 2013)

Looks sapphire to me.


----------



## epackage (Oct 11, 2013)

> ORIGINAL:  blade
> 
> Looks sapphire to me.


 You're hooked on 5, 6 and 7 year old posts I see blade...[]


----------



## blade (Oct 11, 2013)

They age like a fine wine ![8D]


----------



## treasurekidd (Oct 11, 2013)

I know this is an old post, but the CPC ink is actually the Cross Pen Co of Rhode Island. It comes in several sizes and colors, and the aqua is kinda common, but they are really nice bottles. There are also a couple variations of master inks, but I've only seen those in pictures. Here's a link to them on the Little Rhody Bottle Club site, just scroll down to the bottom of the page:

 http://www.littlerhodybottleclub.org/bottlebook/abofrimiscc.html


----------

