# COSTAR POISON discussion......



## OmegaFirefly (Oct 29, 2011)

To all poison collectors !!

 Please go to the following threads in case you haven't already been involved in what appears to be a COSTAR poison.  There are two photos you can look at.  Since this is a POISON group, I thought you might be interested in all the participants who were answering my call for help to identify a bottle I have.  Please feel free to add to the discussion.
 Thanks,
 Dave the Digger

 Thread:  Anybody know what this is?
  https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-461848/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#461853

 Thread:  Need ID on an ink....COSTAR on bottom.
 https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-461841/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#461855


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## Poison_Us (Oct 29, 2011)

Well, here is my thoughts.  Many bottles had poison in them, but the bottle themselves had no distinguishing characteristics that said Poison to anyone.  If it wasn't for the label, nobody would know.

 Now for the other side of the coin.

 If COSTAR made nothing but bug and vermin poisons (can anyone verify this?), then with the embossing on the base, this would be classified as a poison as it would not have contained anything else (Kind of like most bug and rat poisons).  But we have to be sure the COSTAR did not make anything else...and an ad picturing this bottle would help along with one with a label.

 The closest thing to this that I can find is a KC-18.  Its "Farmers Rat Paste".  Has the same shape, 2" tall and all the embossing is on the base.  Has a rat and the words above.  

 So the possibility is there, we just have to be sure the COSTAR did not make or market anything other than bug and rat poisons and it's good.


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## Poison_Us (Oct 29, 2011)

Did a google of past ABN discussions and PUPMAN seemed to be quite the expert on bug and rat poisons...  I havn't seen a post from him lately, but being someone who specializes in particular lines, would be a great resource.  This came from one of Ryan's digz in '07

 https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-97836/mpage-26/tm.htm

 I will call Jerry tonight to see what his take is since he has collected most poisons for way longer than we have.  He is always a wealth of knowledge.  This bottle is not listed in our books, but maybe it should be.


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## epackage (Oct 29, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  Poison_Us
> 
> *If COSTAR made nothing but bug and vermin poisons (can anyone verify this?)*, then with the embossing on the base, this would be classified as a poison as it would not have contained anything else (Kind of like most bug and rat poisons).Â  But we have to be sure the COSTAR did not make anything else...and an ad picturing this bottle would help along with one with a label.


 https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-461841/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#461855


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## epackage (Oct 29, 2011)

One of his mailing envelopes...


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## OmegaFirefly (Oct 29, 2011)

Ok, will wait to hear from you or PUPMAN.  In case you need the photo of the bottle, here it is again.


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## Poison_Us (Oct 29, 2011)

Thanks, Jim..  I did read both threads as linked at the beginning here, but it doesnt tell me if they made anything else but this.  That's my question, if they made stomach tablets or anything but bug and rat poison that this bottle would have contained.  Just have to eliminate all question of what came in the bottle. But so far, nobody has come forward with anything like an add for this other that what has come forward....so the jury is still out.


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## epackage (Oct 29, 2011)

Oh Ok, it would seem odd to me that a man whose company advertises on the side of rats would also have another product that wasn't some sort of poison or pesticide but I guess it's possible...


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## andy volkerts (Oct 30, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  Poison_Us
> 
> Thanks, Jim..Â  I did read both threads as linked at the beginning here, but it doesnt tell me if they made anything else but this.Â  That's my question, if they made stomach tablets or anything but bug and rat poison that this bottle would have contained.Â  Just have to eliminate all question of what came in the bottle. But so far, nobody has come forward with anything like an add for this other that what has come forward....so the jury is still out.


 [&:][8D]  What seems odder to me than any other point is this, Why would you put poison into a bottle without bumps points lines stars or all the other embossed signals that told a person in dim (candle) LITE that it was a poison, I thought that was the idea , the reason for alla points stars lines and bumps onna poison bottles??????


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## epackage (Oct 30, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  andy volkerts
> 
> 
> [&:][8D]  What seems odder to me than any other point is this, Why would you put poison into a bottle without bumps points lines stars or all the other embossed signals that told a person in dim (candle) LITE that it was a poison, I thought that was the idea , the reason for alla points stars lines and bumps onna poison bottles??????


 Lyons Powder wasn't covered in bumps either Andy....Jim


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## Poison_Us (Oct 30, 2011)

Bug and rat poisons don't follow normal methods of identification.  Many of them don't have the usual warning embossing that a pharmacy poison would have. This is why I have to reserve myself until it can be proven, without a doubt, that it could only have had a poison in it to say it is a poison bottle.


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 30, 2011)

I'm pretty sure Costar only sold vermin killing products.
 but...
 If you are willing to beleive Henry Costar's ads from the 1860s, it is not a poison.


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## epackage (Oct 30, 2011)

Found it Stephen and as always when it comes to poison YOU'RE THE MAN !!!!!

 The following is from the book "New York's Great Industries", written by Richard Edwards in 1885....Seems Vermin and bugs weren't the only thing Henry was selling.....Jim

 The company also manufactures the famous "Silver Ore Stove Polish Lacquer , which when applied to stoves, heaters, ranges and grates shines with black silver brillancy." The company also manufactures the "Red Metallic Lacquer," which is specific to cleaning and polishing, and is warranted not to scratch or blemish. The company is also the manufacturer of the popular "Yosemite Sift Crystals," which stand unrivaled for the bath, the toilet, or as a healer of cutaneous troubles(sores). It will cure catarrh, and is the best thing to add to the water for the cleansing of delicate fabrics and is unsurpassed for general laundry. 


 I'm thinking this is a stove polish or blacking bottle and NOT a poison....Jim


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## epackage (Oct 30, 2011)

The key was to Google "Henry R. Costar" and not Costars, the "'s" thru me off in my quest but I found it....Jim

 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZJi9P1eCf3MC&pg=PA208&lpg=PA208&dq=%22henry+r.+costar%22&source=bl&ots=C1uHjr4pvN&sig=DxJYAWNeWmNWCLCWDZiDvQAwakM&hl=en&ei=YU2tTpOEO8rc0QHs4NzGDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q=%22henry%20r.%20costar%22&f=false


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## |MDB| (Oct 30, 2011)

This is an interesting bit of extra info on the COSTAR company of New York. It also relates to lack of proper labeling on their poison products.

 "ARRESTED FOR MANSLAUGHTER; OFFICERS OF THE COSTAR COMPANY IN JAIL IN YONKERS. Two Children Died After Eating Rat Exterminator 

 YONKERS, N.Y., Nov. 15 -- Gilbert L. Richardson. President, and Michael Kelley, Vice President, of the Costar Company, 34 Clinton Place, New-York City, were arrested to-night and locked up on a charge of manslaughter. They are held without bail. The arrests were made by order of Coroner Miles."

 Mary Linehan, 4 years of age, fed her 2 year old brother Michael Linehan a spoonful of rat exterminator and then took some herself. The Coroner's report cited that "The label on the box read Costar's Rat and Roach Exterminator. Non-poisonous. No danger in using."


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## |MDB| (Oct 30, 2011)

.


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 30, 2011)

> stove polish or blacking bottle


 
 possible, looks a bit small but its hard to tell in a photo.
 How big is it?
 Good find on the addition product info , I have only ever seen his bug killer ads which must have been his main sellers.

 His non-poisonous claim is obviously highy dubious. 

 Assuming for a second this was some sort of bug killer (which it may not have been since he sold other stuff)...
 The question is "is something sold which is not intended to be a poison still considered a poison bottle?"
 There are many products which were probably poisonous (varnishes, mercury, naptha, etc) that I dont think collectors call poisons. 
 There seems to be some gray areas for poison bottle catagorization.


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## Poison_Us (Oct 30, 2011)

Interesting reads.....  love it!  Great detective work.


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## OmegaFirefly (Oct 30, 2011)

Hello Poison Group,
 I would like to thank everyone for the great effort you put into researching COSTAR for me.  Of course, the more that people got involved, the more the "hunt" became a "major search" for truth & knowledge.  That is what I think I love the most about bottle digging & collecting and that is the historical researching that goes on when you find something new.  Thank God for the Internet and for those who have spent a good deal of their lives loving this hobby and recording their findings. Other than that, it is the feel of old glass in my hands and admiring its beauty that thrills me and, I must say, it is hard for me not to think about the person who used the contents internally for an ailment when I dig a medicine.  You see, I collect medicines, mainly cures, and studying the advancement of "natural medicines" entrigues me.  Even today, I try to use only natural cures for my own ailments and so far, it is working for me but I must say, there is a place for "Western" medicine for those whose disease has gone too far to be affected by some of the old herbal remedies.  The secret is making sure you take care of your body and not abusing it (too much) as the years progress.
 So, I thank you all for your time and I really enjoy this forum due to folks like you.  You are the cream at the top!
 Best regards,
 Dave the Digger or OmegaFirefly, whatever you want to call me but be nice)


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## Poison_Us (Oct 31, 2011)

Well, got off the phone with Jerry.  And with it's shape, size and the resemblance to other like products, he gives it a 75% chance that it is indeed the rat paste.  But he agrees, with no labeled example, we can't be sure.


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## madman (Oct 31, 2011)

test


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## AntiqueMeds (Oct 31, 2011)

I see your two rats and raise you three mice and a muskrat


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## |MDB| (Oct 31, 2011)

As to the *COSTAR* company on *Broadway* in New York city involving the arrests of the two principals on manslaughter charges: 

 "The [grand] jury found that the children came to their death by phosphorus poison contained in the 'Costar Rat and Roach Exterminator', manufactured and sold by Gilbert M. Richardson and Nicholas S. Kelley, unlawfully labeled 'Free from poison. No danger in using'."

 Regarding an ad for COSTAR's products, COSTAR seems to have advertised and sold only poisons. Poisons for rats, mice, cockroaches, bed-bugs, moths, fleas, insects and 'etc' though they advertised the company's products as being "perfectly harmless to mankind."

 The first ad below is from the New York Times, dated September 27, 1853. The second ad is also from the New York Times, dated May 16, 1854.


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## |MDB| (Oct 31, 2011)

COSTAR clearly is identified as a poison seller, or at least a seller of "exterminators" by the firm's very mailing address, namely "COSTAR's Exterminator Depot, no. 448 Broadway N.Y.". Additional products i.e. for moths, bedbugs, fleas, 'insects', etc.


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## |MDB| (Nov 1, 2011)

Were there two COSTAR companies in New York, selling the same products?

 Interestingly, the Henry Costar company had one of the first advertising jingles, the chorus of which was "COSTAR'S EXTERMINATORS, EXTERMINATORS."

 "As Spring approaches Ants and roaches From their holes come out, And mice and rats, In spite of cats, Gaily skip about. COSTAR'S EXTERMINATORS, EXTERMINATORS ..."

 For Rats, Mice, Roaches, Ants, Bed Bugs, Fleas, Moths In Furs and Insects on Plants, Fowls, Animals, etc. Only infallible remedies known. Free from poisons. Not dangerous to the human family. 

 http://cdnc.ucr.edu/cdnc/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SDU18660731.2.13.3&cl=CL2.1866.07&srpos=0&dliv=none&st=1&e=-------en-logical-20--1-----all---


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## epackage (Nov 1, 2011)

> ORIGINAL:  |MDB|
> 
> Were there two COSTAR companies in New York, selling the same products?


 No, as I noted and posted in the company outline from the book I found it clearly states that they also sold Stove Blacking, Stove Polish and Laundry and other items.....

 The following is from the book "New York's Great Industries", written by Richard Edwards in 1885....Seems Vermin and bug death weren't the only things Henry was selling.....Jim 

 The company also manufactures the famous "Silver Ore Stove Polish Lacquer , which when applied to stoves, heaters, ranges and grates shines with black silver brillancy." The company also manufactures the "Red Metallic Lacquer," which is specific to cleaning and polishing, and is warranted not to scratch or blemish. The company is also the manufacturer of the popular "Yosemite Sift Crystals," which stand unrivaled for the bath, the toilet, or as a healer of cutaneous troubles(sores). It will cure catarrh, and is the best thing to add to the water for the cleansing of delicate fabrics and is unsurpassed for general laundry. 


 Taken from this book....One company many different products....

 http://books.google.com/books?id=ZJi9P1eCf3MC&pg=PA208&lpg=PA208&dq=%22henry+r.+costar%22&source=bl&ots=C1uHjr4pvN&sig=DxJYAWNeWmNWCLCWDZiDvQAwakM&hl=en&ei=YU2tTpOEO8rc0QHs4NzGDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q=%22henry%20r.%20costar%22&f=false


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## |MDB| (Nov 1, 2011)

Hello, epackage. When arrested in 1894 following the death of two children who died eating their product, the company president Gilbert L. Richardson said that COSTAR was founded by his father sixty years before, or about 1834. The claim to fame of the Richardson family's company was an "extermination" product called Rat Exterminator, and they had a depot on Broadway in New York. 

 Henry R. Costar - who appears to have been born 29 February 1824 - would have been a child of ten years of age when the Richardson family established their COSTAR company.

 When he grew up, Henry R. Costar opened a depot on Broadway in New York to sell a product called Rat Exterminator. Like the original COSTAR company, he claimed his company's poisons were not poisons. If he was merely a copycat operator, it seems that Henry R. Costar effectively usurped the COSTAR company name, business address, and primary product - along with the false non-poison disclaimer.

 Regardless whether the business name _*COSTAR*_ was the same as the family name of Henry R. Costar, the latter also sold salves, solvents, pills, and cough remedy. Here are five ads, in one image, to avoid having to upload five separate small ads.


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## OmegaFirefly (Nov 1, 2011)

Hello Michael,
 Boy, you are quite the researcher.  A lot of good articles but one thing that I really need to ID this bottle of mine is to have a picture of it.  Are you seeing any pictures accompanying these articles?
 How are you going about finding all these articles?  What is the secret?
 Hope to hear from you.  You can either keep on contacting everyone through the forum or you can contact me directly at omega2012@centurylink.net
 Thanks,
 Dave


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## |MDB| (Nov 1, 2011)

Hello, OmegaFirefly. All of the folks here use the same means, Google, for scoping out background info. It's a hit and miss proposition on most occasions but sometimes a person here gets lucky and finds something useful to another member.

 As to obtaining an image or illustration of the product packaging, unfortunately that is proving to be a hard thing to come by. But if I do find anything in that regard I certainly will let you know, as I'm sure will others.


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## AntiqueMeds (Nov 1, 2011)

using google for research is a good start. I augment that will searches in various digital newspaper collections, old business directories , and early books. I also use old trade cards but they didnt really become common until the late 1870s.
 Some early companies did little advertising and are very hard to research.


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## |MDB| (Nov 2, 2011)

Hello, AntiqueMeds. You have a nice website. It must have taken a lot of time and energy to create that site let alone collect all of those bottles in the first place. 

 I plan eventually to put together a site for my bottles and among the resources I have found handy for historical information is Google books. One can download dozens of books on glass-making written in the 1800s and scanned and distributed for free by Google. Plenty of useful information and interesting images are available.


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## Poison_Us (Nov 26, 2011)

Here are a pair of like examples as I brought up earlier.  These are KC-18s

 http://www.ebay.com/itm/TWO-SIZES-FARMERS-RAT-PASTE-MINI-POISON-JARS-/380385043391?pt=UK_Collectables_Bottle_Pots_ET&hash=item5890b723bf


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