# Walking Dog Off Leash - Taserable Offense



## surfaceone (Feb 1, 2012)

"MONTARA, Calif. â€” A man walking his dogs in a federal park was hit with a stun gun and arrested by a park ranger who accused him of not putting a leash on the animals and giving a false name, astonishing passers-by who say the reaction was excessive.

 The ranger deployed the Taser stun gun on Gary Hesterberg on Sunday after he ignored the ranger's orders and tried to walk away, the National Park Service said. Hesterberg was allegedly walking his dogs without leashes in violation of the rules of Rancho Corral de Tierra, which was incorporated into the Golden Gate National Recreation Area in December.

 "It appears the incident began as one of several educational contacts that day about the NPS rules on dog-walking," said Howard Levitt, the recreation area's communications director. "But this one developed into a more serious law enforcement situation when the person being contacted provided false information."

 Hesterberg allegedly refused to provide the ranger with printed identification, and she realized he had told her a false name when she called dispatchers to verify, Levitt said. While she was on the telephone, "the man failed to heed repeated orders to remain at the scene" and the ranger used her Taser, he said.

 The encounter is being reviewed just like any other use of force by a law enforcement officer, Levitt said. The ranger, whom he would not identify, remains on the job, he said.

 "Any law enforcement officer has a variety of means by which to insure compliance in a law enforcement situation, so the standard is they exercise reasonable judgment to ensure compliance in any situation they find themselves in," Levitt said.

 A witness, Michelle Babcock, told the San Francisco Chronicle () the ranger never gave Hesterberg an explanation as to why he was being detained and then hit him with the stun gun in the back. http://bit.ly/y9rHph

 "He just tried to walk away," Babcock said. "She never gave him a reason. ... It didn't make any sense."

 Calls to a telephone listing for Hesterberg were not immediately returned Tuesday. No one answered the door at Hesterberg's home in Montara, a coastal community in San Mateo County with about 3,000 residents.


 A neighbor, Judith Rosenberg, said she heard about the incident from a woman who claimed to have witnessed it. Rosenberg, who was walking her own dog when she found out, said she complained in an email to federal park officials.

 "I was very concerned they are tasering people just for not having their dogs on a leash," said the 55-year-old. "It just seems really excessive."

 Rosenberg said the chief ranger for the recreational area replied with some details of the incident. In the response, which she shared with The Associated Press, Kevin Cochary said Hesterberg was "not compliant, tried to run away and lied to the investigating ranger about his name."

 "We will look into this matter in depth," Cochary wrote.

 Hesterberg was arrested on suspicion of failing to obey a lawful order, having dogs off-leash and knowingly providing false information, Levitt said.

 Rancho Corral de Tierra was privately owned until it became part of the recreation area in December. Residents were accustomed to letting their dogs roam there both on and off leashes, Levitt said.

 The recreation area has proposed tougher rules for dog walkers, including requiring leashes in open spaces where dogs currently roam untethered and closing some popular dog-walking areas to canines. The ranger was trying to educate residents about the leash requirement, Levitt said.

 Park service officials and environmentalists said they want to protect some 1,200 native plant and animal species, including the Snowy Plover, a federally endangered shorebird." From.




More.


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 1, 2012)

he's lucky, I would have shot him in the leg


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
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> he's lucky, I would have shot him in the leg


 

 What if this guy was the offender,then what  ?? [:-]


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 1, 2012)

> What if this guy was the offender,then what  ??


 
 I'd just wait for him to turn into a butterfly and wave goodby...


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## druggistnut (Feb 1, 2012)

The quotes from the witness and the neighbor don't help his case. He was given a lawful order and he thumbed his nose at the LAW ENFORCEMENT Officer. On top of that, add in the false identity he gave her-- she had every legal right to use less than deadly force.
 I would have tased him, too.
 Bill  (retired military cop)


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## epackage (Feb 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
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 Glad I didn't have a mouthful of food or drink when I read this Matt....[8D]


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
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 From shooting him in the leg,to waving good by to him? You couldn't kill a butterfly [8D]


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## Plumbata (Feb 1, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  epackage
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 Ditto Jim. [][][]



> Rancho Corral de Tierra was privately owned until it became part of the  recreation area in December. Residents were accustomed to letting their  dogs roam there both on and off leashes, Levitt said.


 
 This here makes me think that the fellow just had no idea that there was a change in regulations regarding the land, and perhaps he didn't know much about the authority of park rangers either. If a cop tells you to stop, you stop, but if some female park ranger starts bothering you while you are walking your dogs on what you believe is still land not under their jurisdiction, the man's reaction makes more sense. I wouldn't have tased him even if I did have the authority.


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## Blackglass (Feb 1, 2012)

...Am I the only one who thinks tasering someone because they have an unleashed dog and gave a false name is absolutely insane? What are we turning into, freaking Nazi Germany???


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## surfaceone (Feb 1, 2012)

From.

 ^^^ Dangerous Dog Walker^^^

 Here's a Chronicle story that dribbles out some different witnessy rememberings:

 "Babcock said Hesterberg had repeatedly asked the ranger why he was being detained. She didn't answer him, Babcock said.

 "He just tried to walk away. She never gave him a reason," Babcock said.

 The ranger shot Hesterberg in the back with her shock weapon as he walked off, Babcock said.

 "We were like in disbelief," she said. "It didn't make any sense."

 The hands down best line in the story is:

*"The ranger was trying to educate residents of the rule, Levitt said."
*

 I'm looking forward to learning more on the Park Service policy on Tazering Dog Walkers. I've not yet found out the breeds of these "small dogs." I'd hate to think the Park Service has an anti-Yorkie or Schnauzer policy.

 This is apparently a different Golden Gate Park than I remember. Park Rangers, when did they start carrying weapons? Me, in my blissful Ranger ignorance, previously pictured them as kinda the big Boy Scout types.

 The comedians are gonna have such fun with this story. The Park Service, through the actions of the unnamed female Ranger, who by some accounts is still on the job, could not have conjured the tsunami of jokes and unwanted attention they are about to receive.

 "Taser is a registered trademark. It is an acroynm for â€œThomas A. Swiftâ€™s Electric Rifle.â€

'Tom Swift and His Electric Rifle, or, Daring Adventures in Elephant Land is a young adult novel written by Victor Appleton. It is Volume 10 in the original Tom Swift novel series published by Grosset & Dunlap.'​ 
 Jack Cover, the NASA researcher who began developing the Taser in 1969 was a Tom Swift fan so he named his invention for Tomâ€™s fictional rifle." From.

"Don't Taze Me Bro!" brought to you by John Kerry 2007.


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 1, 2012)

> You couldn't kill a butterfly


 
 I would not kill a butterfly ... but I would shoot aholes in the leg all day long, its the only way to train them[]


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## Penn Digger (Feb 1, 2012)

I have been tased a couple of times.  It's not that bad once they stop pulling the trigger that sends the jolt. LOL.  As soon as that stops, the pain stops.  The danger is more in what one may do on  the way down to the ground, hit their head, smash their face off a table corner....

 PD


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## andy volkerts (Feb 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  AntiqueMeds
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 [] Ya got that right or maybe inna nuts with a big stick....


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Penn Digger
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> I have been tased a couple of times.  It's not that bad once they stop pulling the trigger that sends the jolt. LOL.  As soon as that stops, the pain stops.  The danger is more in what one may do on  the way down to the ground, hit their head, smash their face off a table corner....
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 Was that one of the tests for getting into Mayor School? how long  did you have to last 10 seconds 15?  hahaa


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## appliedlips (Feb 2, 2012)

I say Taze the whiny witness too! Taze the reporter! If he files suit, taze the attorneys! Everyone crying " excessive" should look at the other side. Lying to an officer and being argumentative seems excessive to me! She wanted to educate him on the new policy. If I am in a vehicle in my home state with a friend that gets pulled over for speeding, they will ask me for my information. If I took the stance, they don't need it, or I am doing nothing wrong and get ignorant I'd expect to be treated poorly. I am sure alot of felons are taken off the streets this way. I suppose it would be excessive if I were hiking in the park and an unleashed dog ran up to me barking aggresively and I kicked it in the head or beat it with a stick before I found out if it bit or not? I am a dog lover and owner but for crying out loud, some rules are common sense.


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## carobran (Feb 2, 2012)

If it was just walking off a leash,then yes,this would be stupid.But,giving false information and walking away from an officer,unless the officer was being a complete jerk like some big shot cops,was a taserable act.I agree with the med guy[].I never understood why you'd want to spend all that money on a taser when you could just shoot them in the leg.I guess thats just too terribly cruel isnt it?[8|]


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## AntiqueMeds (Feb 2, 2012)

its sort of like getting pulled over for a burned out tailight and when the cop walks up putting it in gear and driving off. 
 Things just go downhill from there...


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## towhead (Feb 2, 2012)

Although, officers are not required to issue any warnings before using a Taser on a suspect, I would've at least warned him that I was going to zap him.  But, maybe some park rangers aren't trained in communication.  

 -Julie


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## beendiggin (Feb 2, 2012)

Morale: Be polite to Police officers.


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## div2roty (Feb 2, 2012)

As a runner I think all dogs should be on leashes when in public spaces.  I've been bit twice and attacked twice (although not hurt, I kicked both dogs very hard in the face).  

 However, almost worse than the dogs that bite (even playing) or attack, are the friendly ones that zip between your legs and trip you.  I believe legally owners are most often held responsible for their dogs, esp when off the leash in public spaces.


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## surfaceone (Feb 2, 2012)

Some of you may find this brief News Story and Witness Statement of interest.

 I still don't know what kinda little doggies we're talking about. What is wrong with these reporters. There was one photo that was perhaps a Jack Russell Terrier. Don't know if he was one of the miscreants or not.

 Congresswoman Jackie Speier is calling for an Independent Investigation.

 This new addition to the park is 3,800 acres. Seems to be very popular with dog walkers, runners and assorted other park users.

 The backshooting ranger is still unidentified. The doggies, too. 

 It's been a very long time since I have been in Golden Gate Park, and never this new area. I've never been a big Park goer. Seems you could be mauled by a grizzly at Yellowstone, or Tazed for reckless dog walking at Golden Gate.

 I can remember the Human Be In, way back in the day.  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			













 Those were different days. Say, what is the penalty for reckless dog walking. Isn't it, in the worst case scenario, a ticket?

 When did Park Rangers start carrying Tasers? Do they have firearms as well?  Will the still unidentified female Ranger find herself on pooper scooper patrol when this all cools down?

 Where's Herb Caen and Melvin Belli when you really need them.


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## carobran (Feb 2, 2012)

> ORIGINAL: surfaceone
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 Probably since peple started giving false info and walking away from officers.


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## mr.fred (Feb 2, 2012)

We have  State Park Rangers around here!-------they  have  arresting  powers----carry Big  guns  ---- a taser or 2------can and will  stop anyone!. Essentially  they  are like our New York  State Police!.   A  few are  hot dogs[8D]----but most are doing their job!. I have a few  friends  in law enforcement and i asked 1 of them  today  if  they  can just  tas you!!!!-------she  said  each agency  has  their  own  protocol  on the use of  them[8|]---no real answer !!!----  ~Fred.


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## Plumbata (Feb 2, 2012)

Yo surf, I never knew that "Taser" was an acronym, many thanks for sharing that tidbit.



> ORIGINAL:  carobran
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> Probably since people started giving false info and walking away from officers.


 
 lol, good one man, pretty much nails it on the head. []



 I personally will never be convinced that the situation was handled properly. There seem to be 2 different schools of thought regarding this issue;

 There are the authoritarian, judgmental personalities who thrive on rules and structure.

 And there are the libertarian, perceptive personalities who thrive on personal liberties/freedom.

 Guess which school of thought I adhere to? []

 I have little patience for authority figures and much prefer to interact with others as equals, whether they are handicapped, retarded, a brilliant professor, or the owner of a successful business. "Respect is a two way street", as some cops who visited my school stated years ago. Apparently it only applies to people who *aren't* police officers... I do not give respect to people simply because of their authority or social status. Society in general is structured to show deference to authority figures, but I'm not a typical member of this society. Some people like to boss other people around (cops) and love having some piece of paper to justify their actions (laws) but such a way of life doesn't jive with me, not at all. Leave me alone, and I'll leave you alone. Respect me, and I'll respect you. Very simple.

 I have a long history of interaction with with cops, and although I have met some truly good individuals who are officers, generally speaking they are stupid meatheads who are way too full of themselves, and I have never met one so smart that I couldn't talk circles around them or manipulate them in wonderfully useful ways. And *they* think they are playing mind games with *me*?* HAH!* [] Why is it that I've never met an intelligent cop? I'm sure that they are out there (or maybe they all go work for the CIA/FBI), but seriously, if society is going to give the police officers so much power to infringe upon our liberties, shouldn't they be competent enough to *understand,* versus just slavishly following the letter of the law? Female cops are typically heinous evil bitc**s with an even more exaggerated mean streak, probably because they have to compete and succeed in a career dominated by macho manly-men (rolleyes). Probably the case with this female ranger. 

 The kinds of people attracted to law enforcement are by nature of the first school of thought I mentioned. The world needs people to enforce laws and keep people safe and make sure that free transactions between individuals are conducted as agreed-upon, but in my mind, tasing someone for providing false info and for walking away is going way overboard. At least try to physically detain the person and search for wallet/proper ID, if they started fighting then the taser is fine, but it oughta be used in self defense, not as a convenient way to detain some non-violent individual (who was never given a reason regarding why he was being detained in the first place...)


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## Wheelah23 (Feb 2, 2012)

I see no reason to go and use a taser. In no accounts did the victim ever make like he was going to attack, which _would_ have justified a taser's use. Seems more like an overly zealous officer wanting to use their shiny new toy.


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## surfaceone (Feb 2, 2012)

My previous understanding of the Park Service, had it that there were Park Rangers and Park Police.

 Y'all remember the Park Police, and their thoroughly botched "investigation" into the death of Hillary & Bill's old buddy Vince Foster out at Fort Marcy.

 I cannot understand by what possible protocol it is okay to shoot citizens with Tom Swift Electric Rifles for allowing one small dog or two to walk in the park unleashed. Had the mystery rangerette permanently put out the lights of Mr. Hesterberg, his heirs or the doggies themselves, if they got a good lawyer, would own the damn park. Gloria Alred would volunteer in a nanosecond.

 This would also be reckless dog walking equipment:




From.






 This nifty item is the "Taser X26 shows Taser Cam attachment on the grip of the stun gun." 

*Taser Cam!* Hot damn. This must make for big fun at HQ, on screening night. 

 "Watch this, Earl. He drops right over on the damn dog, and does a great gator on his little yappy azz."

 I've got great respect for genuine law enforcement officers. 

 Park Rangers, on educational dog walker missions with paramilitary weapons, not so much. This unidentified, unnamed rangerette, not at all.

 "Moral and Ethical Implications of Less-Lethal Weaponry

 It should perhaps be noted that we here at DefenseReview arenâ€™t necessarily always huge fans of law enforcement/police use of less-lethal control devices a.k.a. less-lethal weapons overall, since thereâ€™s a potentially sinister, Nineteen Eighty-Fourish aspect about them (less-lethal/non-lethal weapons). Frankly, they offer A LOT more room for abuse and misuse than do lethal weapons like firearms, and can be overused or unnecessarily used in order to dominate and control people. When an LEO knows that a weapon is less-lethal/non-lethal and therefore either canâ€™t kill or is much less likely to kill the person on whom he/sheâ€™s using it, he/she is probably going to be much more inclined and/or quicker to use it on that person than he/she would a lethal weapon like a firearm. In some cases, he/she may use it even if itâ€™s not necessarily the best way to go, or even warranted. Video evidence of some bad Taser shoots bears this out. In some cases, Tasers have been used to punish a subject (i.e. person/human being) for non-compliance, rather than to prevent an imminent attack against the officer(s).  Having written that, weâ€™re guessing that Tasers are employed/deployed properly by the majority of police officers, but there have been cases of abuse of the technology." From.

 While there are certain situations that warrant taser use, the punishment of Mr. Hesterberg was clearly, not one of them.


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## surfaceone (Feb 2, 2012)

Educate... !Taze!... Repeat

 "Tasers remain in legal tug of war
 Since 2008, Tasers or electronic stun guns have been a mandatory weapon for all 30 enforcement rangers working for the Golden Gate National Recreation Area. That is true even though the exact rules for their use remain somewhat discretionary.
 The National Parks Service has no official protocol for the use of Tasers by its officers. Instead, the proper use of electroshock weapons is left up to each individual ranger. The same is true for all the ranger's other weapons, including the baton, pepper spray and handgun, said Howard Levitt, GGNRA spokesman.
 "The basic rule is they're permitted to use force based on the situation to assure compliance," he said. "The standard is the officer's judgment."
 In recent years, National Parks Service rangers have been the victims of increasing violence themselves. A 2003 study by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility found that Parks Service rangers were 12 times more likely to be killed or injured as the result of an assault than FBI agents.
 Regardless, Tasers fall into a special category for criminal law experts because the jury's still out on where the weapon should fall between lethal and nonlethal force. Last October, the federal Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals warned agencies that use Tasers. The court ruled that a Seattle, Wash., police officer went too far by using a Taser on a pregnant woman who was driving 12 mph over the speed limit. The court ruling added ammunition for anyone who may file a lawsuit over use of the Tasers by law enforcement.
 GGNRA is reviewing the specific details from Sunday when a ranger used a Taser to subdue a dog-walker at the Rancho Corral de Tierra open space it recently acquired from the Peninsula Open Space Trust. Rangers expect a preliminary report to be finished within the next two weeks.
 - Mark Noack" From.

 I'm definitely staying outta the parks:

"The National Parks Service has no official protocol for the use of Tasers by its officers. Instead, the proper use of electroshock weapons is left up to each individual ranger. The same is true for all the ranger's other weapons, including the baton, pepper spray and handgun, said Howard Levitt, GGNRA spokesman.

 "The basic rule is they're permitted to use force based on the situation to assure compliance," he said. "The standard is the officer's judgment."

 Hello, knock, knock, knock, *"enforcement rangers!"* What a concept...

 Smokey would be so proud.


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## rockbot (Feb 3, 2012)

thank goodness they didn't taser the dog![]

 A pretty mixed topic for me. A raise and use hunting dogs and you better keep them leashed or caged. The problem arrises when I need to remove pesky
 pigs from rural and farm environments. They need to be unleashed to do their job and I have to be totally in control of the situation.


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## surfaceone (Feb 3, 2012)

From.

 Much better picture of the Dangerous Dog Walker.

 His attorney is gonna have a field day. 

 "An online National Park Service manual says rangers may use force only to defend themselves or others, to make an arrest, to control resisting, threatening or violent suspects, or to disperse a threatening crowd.

 Specific policies regarding the use of guns and electric shock weapons are redacted from the online manuals." From.






 "This is not the first instance in which a Taser has been used by an eco-enforcement ranger in California.

 Two years ago, Chico, California resident Jeff Newman, a former National Forest Service employee, was threatened with a Taser on his own property by  ark Ranger Paul Zohovetz, who had materialized on Newmanâ€™s doorstep in full battle array. Zohovetz had traveled more than fifty miles to threaten Newman with a citation for posting a commercial flier on a bulletin board in the Lassen National Forest.

 Newman commanded the armed intruder to leave his property. Zohovetz, who had already committed criminal trespass, compounded the offense by committing felonious assault with a deadly weapon by pointing his Taser at the manâ€™s face and neck. Newman retreated inside his house and called a friend; after trying and failing to kick in the front door, Zohovetz called for backup from the local police department.

 Once his friend had arrived, Newman emerged from the house, only to be handcuffed and dragged away. Newman, a diabetic, had not taken insulin, and went into convulsions. Satisfied that heâ€™d made whatever point he sought to make, Zohovetz released Newman and told him that he was only issuing a â€œwarningâ€ regarding the flier. He also issued a citation for â€œthreatening an officer,â€ a charge that carried a six month jail sentence and a $5,000 fine.

 When the case went to trial in March 2011, U.S. District Court Magistrate Craig M. Kellison ruled that Zohovetz â€œhad no right to remain on Newmanâ€™s property once he had been ordered to leave.â€ He also cited a Supreme Court precedent acknowledging that the â€œfreedom of individuals verbally to oppose or challenge police action without thereby risking arrest is one of the principal characteristics by which we distinguish a free nation from a police state.â€

 Forest Service spokesman John Heil had insisted that Zohovetz behaved appropriately by driving 50 miles to issue a â€œwarningâ€ and then needlessly escalating a trivial matter into a life-threatening confrontation. In similar fashion, National Park Service spokesman Howard Levitt maintained that the still-unidentified ranger who attacked Hesterberg with a deadly weapon conducted herself appropriately as part of an effort to â€œeducate residentsâ€ about the new dog leash requirement, reported the San Francisco Chronicle.

 The day is coming when bureaucrats who presume to â€œeducateâ€ inoffensive, law-abiding citizens through electro-shock abuse are going to be taught a few unpleasant lessons of their own." From.


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## towhead (Feb 3, 2012)

[8|]


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## carobran (Feb 3, 2012)

Seema like some of you just want cops to carry around a potato shooter.[8|]


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## surfaceone (Feb 3, 2012)

You talkin to me, kid?

 A good Potato shooter has it's place, probably not in the arsenal of any Law Enforcement Agency. I've not seen anyone advocate those, save you. [8D] 







 I like shooting as much as any shooter. I don't have any Tasers in my digging bag. I think that if I had been trained in the use of these "semi-lethal" heart stoppers, and licensed to carry one, I would not be zapping any educational contact opportunities into any gray haired, mutt loving, off leashers. But you'd never catch me being some unnamed Park Rangerette with a Shoot First approach either.

 Did you ever see one of those kid leashes? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 Pretty good idea, right?


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## carobran (Feb 3, 2012)

> ORIGINAL: surfaceone
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> You talkin to me, kid?
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 I gotta get one of them things.Maybe i could shoot one through a car grill and make french fries.[8D]


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## surfaceone (Feb 3, 2012)

Hey Branden,






 You're off leash now?


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 3, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
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 Surf,...This is a topic that I have strong feelings about. We have (some) over-zealous State Park police and game wardens that do not seem to be able to discern (or care to) between normal folk and troublesome louts. The game wardens "patrol" private (Big oil and timber) holdings, which span hundreds of thousands of wooded acres, Resorting to such ridiculous measures as feigning injury or a break down to get the offending Grandpa, out picking blackberries on his fourwheeler, or whoever, to stop,... preying on their good nature or sympathies.... Then pounce, writing the puzzled and angry offender a steep ticket....They also seem to mentally justify "bumping" kids on dirt bikes w/ their patrol car bumpers to stop them...this has resulted in many extreme scenarios...It seems as though all perspective and common sense has been shelved in favor of heavy handed tactics which are justified by a technicality....Our national forest and nearby state parks are touted as "the land of many uses" but it seems ironic to me that huge log skidders and a staggering array of oil and gas equipment operates relatively unbothered while most groups persuing recreation are scrutinized and harrassed! I've bypassed most of my younger pursuits (off road motorcycles and snowmobiling)...In favor of my backpack and "hiking stick" (Potato rake with removable head)[]...where I can melt into the woods or just plead hiking if I am bothered...I'm sure someday soon, I'll have a run in doing this as well. Remember, this area I speak of is a rural, low population, low traffic area, not known for it's major crime. Please excuse my rant.. I'm sure I could have described my quiet outrage a bit better. Being a kid during the 60's and 70's was great, but makes it tough to live in an overly fussy and hyper regulated new millineum.


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## carobran (Feb 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL: JOETHECROW
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 What were the kids doing?There was a man at Sonic here who was was the victim of an attemted robbery,the criminal ran across the road to the Sun Flower parking lot where the victim knocked him down with his truck.Wish there were more people like him, not afraid to take action when its needed.


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## surfaceone (Feb 4, 2012)

Hey Joe,

 I hear you, sir, and am pleased to say I've yet to see a librarian packing a Taser. Though God, and the Dewey Decimal System know they'd use em wisely.

 That whole "multi use" philosophy of the USFS is seemingly at their sole discretion. With the expansion of government agencies and government unions, the fiefdoms of the USFS / BLM / et al. are welcoming you, the user, with reams of new regulations. Tickets and fines that redefine taxation without representation, delivered with a smarmily superior attitude that just makes you wanna deploy the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch....


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## rockbot (Feb 4, 2012)

Hey Surf, that map is scaring me.

 We just got through a large protest yesterday over at our DLNR office. Me about about 60 other hunters showed up. Soon we will have no use for our guns as the Government is pushing forward with plans to eradicate all game mammals. We are going to be charged 10 cents per grocery bag to the sum of $20 million a year to fund it.

 Govt gone wild I tell you![]


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## andy volkerts (Feb 4, 2012)

[] From the looks of that map, looks like we all will hafta move to S.Dakota to be even close to free


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## surfaceone (Feb 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
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> Hey Surf, that map is scaring me.
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 No foolin, Tony,

 What dey up to now? Are they gonna have some sorta "prescribed" Gov.Hunt? They can't eradicate them sheep, by their very own rules, I think.

 Plastic or Paper eh? Not even a "sin" tax. Holy Reverend Wright, did you see Mr. Obama's Jesus is for Taxing speech the other day? It's getting positively surreal.

 Or Attorney General Holder's kabuki dance around the Fast & Furious disaster? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 These guys need to be outstalled in November, sooner, in Mr.Holder's case.


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## druggistnut (Feb 4, 2012)

The tased squirrel almost made me spew my coffee. 
 You come up with some of the damnedest things, Surface. I commend you sir, on your thoroughness and zeal that you approach each task with. 
 Bill


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
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> Hey Surf, that map is scaring me.
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 Tony,...That really sucks!...(You might want to hang on to the guns though! ) [8|]


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## cyberdigger (Feb 4, 2012)

Here's another SHOCKER for ya.. this time it was definitely called for, the US economy was at stake!


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## rockbot (Feb 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
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 Surf, the DLNR has been forced to comply with a court order from the Fed's due to a lawsuit by the Sierra club. They are quite good at these days. Sheep
 don't have much chance when you rain down on them from helicopters with assault rifles.

 The latest battle is the acquisition of lands by the National Park, Nature Conservancy, State NAR, and the World heritage fund. Basically they are buying out Hawaii. A forest restoration act has been implemented and they are going after the wild pig. That is a real no-no to the local culture.
 The pigs were brought here some 1500 years ago by the Hawaiians.


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## rockbot (Feb 4, 2012)

The 10 cent charge is for paper or plastic.


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## cyberdigger (Feb 4, 2012)

HERE'S the people the laws were designed to protect.. I say pretty much everybody needs a good tazing once in a while.. it might even wake Mom up again..


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## surfaceone (Feb 4, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
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> Hey Surf, that map is scaring me.
> ...
> Govt gone wild I tell you![]


 



From.

 That map is scaring me, too. Should be scaring all of us American types. The "dark blueing" of America has occurred, for the most part, in my life time and is accelerating lately, at an alarming pace.






 Tony, I'm always amazed at the various Hawaiian agencies that you have to help you. [8D]

 "Project Description

 The overall management goal is to manage threats to the integrity, diversity and functioning of Pu Ì³u Maka Ì³ala NAR ecosystems so that the unique natural and cultural resources are protected, maintained, and enhanced.
 Management programs that support this overall goal include the following: 

 1. Ungulate Management 
 2. Weed Management 
 3. Habitat Protection and Rare Species Restoration
 4. Fire Prevention and Response 
 5. Monitoring 
 6. Public Access, Outreach and Education 
 7. Enforcement 
 8. Partnership Collaboration 
 9. Infrastructure and Other Actions

 Cultural resources are addressed through the protection of the natural resources through the programs above. According to Maly (2004), â€•...the mountain landscape, itsâ€˜ native species, and the intangible components therein, are a part
 of a sacred Hawaiian landscape. Thus, the landscape itself is a highly valued cultural property" Aloha From Forestry & Wildlife.

 Sometimes the language in these overblown .gov documents is most revealing. They sure are anti-ungualate, not to pro-people either...



> The tased squirrel almost made me spew my coffee.
> You come up with some of the damnedest things, Surf


 
 Thank you, Bill, You're about to have me blushing.


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## surfaceone (Feb 5, 2012)

> HERE'S the people the laws were designed to protect.. I say pretty much everybody needs a good tazing once in a while..


 
 Hey Charles,

 I think you're on to something:

"Would stun guns make prisons safer?

 Michigan's state prison system plans to start a pilot program giving some corrections officers stun guns or Tasers.

 Department of Corrections spokesman Russ Marlan says the devices would be used to help break up fights between prisoners and help officers subdue prisoners if they're attacked by them.

 Marlan said breaking up assaults more quickly could help the prison system save money on medical treatment and workers' compensation costs.

 The department has ordered about 100 stun guns. They will be given to officers where fights are most frequent such as food halls and prison yards.

 Marlan said the devices have been used in some other state prison systems.

 Last week, an inmate died at the Isabella County Jail.

 Officers used a stun gun to subdue 36-year-old Bradford Gibson of New Jersey. He was arrested for being disorderly and assaulting a police officer at a Mount Pleasant bar.

 Gibson was found unconscious in his cell an hour after he was brought in.

 Police are waiting for autopsy results to determine the cause of death." From.

 The earlier story:

"Stun gun had been used on jail inmate who was found dead in cell



 MT. PLEASANT -- A media report says police had used a stun gun on a jail inmate about an hour before the man died in a Mid-Michigan jail cell.

 The Morning Sun reports Bradford Gibson was being arrested for disorderly conduct at a Mt. Pleasant bar, when he resisted police and assaulted an officer.  Police used the device to arrest him, and then took him to the Isabella County Jail.

 Earlier this week, NBC25 learned that Gibson was found unconscious in his cell around 3:00 a.m. He was not breathing, and didnâ€™t have a pulse.

 An autopsy will be performed to determine the exact cause of death.  In the meantime, the Associated Press says Michigan State Police are investigating.   

 Do you think stun guns are too dangerous, or should police still be able to use them to arrest disorderly people? Leave us your comments below..." From.

"State police confirm dead inmate was Tasered


 By SUSAN FIELD
 Clare Managing Editor

 State police on Wednesday confirmed that an inmate at the Isabella County jail was Tased by police officers trying to get him to leave a local bar early Saturday morning.

 Bradford T. Gibson, who died at the Isabella County Jail after his arrest on Saturday, had been Tased while struggling with police while they were trying to arrest him, state police Lt. Christopher Stolicker said.

 Gibson, 36, of East Orange, N.J., died sometime after 2 a.m., when he was seen walking around in his cell and was heard by other inmates, and 3 a.m., when corrections officers checked on him and found him unresponsive, Stolicker said.

 Gibson had been arrested by Mt. Pleasant Police officers in the early morning hours Saturday after they were called to Wayside Central at South Mission and East Broomfield streets at about 1:40 a.m., Stolicker said.

 Officers were told that Gibson was disturbing other patrons and refused to leave the bar after being asked by employees to leave, Stolicker said.

 Gibson was struggling with the arresting officers when the Taser was used, then Gibson was arrested and taken to jail, Stolicker said.

 A Mt. Pleasant officer took Gibson to the jail at about 2 a.m.

 sabella County Sheriff Leo Mioduszewski said Gibson was very uncooperative and, rather than being booked, was placed in a holding cell until he calmed down.

 There are six holding cells surrounding master control in the jail, and, because of his demeanor, he was placed alone in one of the cells, the sheriff said.

 â€œHe would not cooperate,â€ Mioduszewski said. â€œWe knew we couldnâ€™t book him in, so he was placed in a holding cell. 

 After being taken to jail, Gibson was â€œobserved walking around in his cell and he was heard by other people in the jail,â€ Stolicker said in a press release.

 After finding Gibson unresponsive, corrections officers called emergency medical personnel to the jail.

 An ambulance arrived shortly before 3 a.m. and attempts to revive Gibson were unsuccessful, Stolicker said.

 Gibson had not suffered any apparent trauma and it was not clear if he had any medical issues, Stolicker said.

 An autopsy has been conducted at Spectrum Health in Grand Rapids, and the cause of death is not yet known with the autopsy report pending, Stolicker said." From.

"Family of teen, who died after police used a stun gun on him, wins $1 million settlement

 BAY CITY -- The family of a teenager, who died after police used a stun gun on him two years ago, has won a $1 million settlement.

 Itâ€™s a story NBC25 first brought you in March 2009.  Police were called to a home in Bay City for reports of minors drinking alcohol. 

 When police arrived, they found 15-year-old Brett Elder and several other teens.  Edler was reportedly extremely intoxicated. Police say they tried to calm the boy down, but he fought back.  Authorities said the fight worsened, and they were eventually forced to use a stun gun to tame him. 

 However, Elder died from the shock.

 His family has been fighting the police on the case ever since, and have taken them to court over the matter. They say that police used unnecessary force, and it was their fault that their son died.

 Now, about two years later, a settlement has been reached in the case.  The courts say four of the teenâ€™s family members and the familyâ€™s attorney will get a share of the $1 million. According to the Bay City Times, Eugene Elder. Sr. will get  $219,554, Eugene Elder Jr. will receive $200,000, Eric Elder (Brett's brother) will also receive $200,000, and Brett Elder's grandmother, Nancy Maluci, will be given $1,000.

 No charges were ever filed against the police officer who used the stun gun on the teen.

 Do you think the family deserved a settlement, or do you think that police were merely doing their job? Leave us your thoughts..." From.

"Officer tased handcuffed man


 LANSING (AP) -- Lansing police officials say an officer whose Tasering of a handcuffed man was caught on dashboard video has been suspended for two weeks without pay for violating department policy.

 Police Chief Mark Alley said on Aug. 16 officer Ryan Smith responded to a domestic call between a 43-year-old Lansing man and his girlfriend.

 Alley tells the Lansing State Journal that a scuffle ensued between Smith and Rocky Allred, who head-butted the officer as he tried to handcuff him. Smith attempted to Taser Allred, but the weapon failed.

 Two other officers subdued Allred while Smith reloaded the Taser, then fired. Allred fell and suffered injuries that included a broken jaw.

 No charges have been filed against Smith. The union representing the two-year veteran said he followed policy and it will protest the suspension.

 (Copyright Â©2009 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved.)" From.

 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~&&&~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Taser Mishap At Roll Call

 A police officer, who injured another officer with his Taser gun, was arrested Wednesday.

 Officer John Scavatto, an officer for 18 years, was charged with reckless endangerment and third degree assault.
 The Taser's two darts, which deliver electrical charges, hit the other officer in the mouth and neck area. He was treated and released from the Hartford Hospital and is expected to return to work on Monday.

 According to police officials, Scavatto pointed his Taser gun at the other officer during roll call and it accidentally discharged.

 Pending the criminal investigation and an internal affairs review, Scavatto has been placed on paid leave." From.

Twice Tazing is Just More Fun...


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## rockbot (Feb 5, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  surfaceone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
 Yep! the only thing that usually happens is the "Ungulate control"

 Manuka Nature area reserve is another example. They did the study, they shot the animals and put up the gates. 20 years in the making.
 The place is now totally over grow with invasive plants. Apparently the evil ungulates enjoyed invasive plants.[8D]


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## RedGinger (Feb 5, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  Blackglass
> 
> ...Am I the only one who thinks tasering someone because they have an unleashed dog and gave a false name is absolutely insane? What are we turning into, freaking Nazi Germany???


 
 Agreed.  Gunth, I felt bad laughing at your comment.  Also, what if the poor dog gets tased in the process?!  Ridiculous.


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## RedGinger (Feb 5, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  towhead
> 
> Although, officers are not required to issue any warnings before using a Taser on a suspect, I would've at least warned him that I was going to zap him.  But, maybe some park rangers aren't trained in communication.
> 
> -Julie


 
 I agree also, on warning the person, if it comes to that kind of situation.  What if they have a heart condition or something?  I don't care what anyone says, it cannot be good for your heart.  Also, how did she know he was giving a false name?

 I'm just commenting as I go here.  I missed this post, earlier.


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## surfaceone (Feb 5, 2012)

> Manuka Nature area reserve is another example. They did the study, they shot the animals and put up the gates. 20 years in the making.
> The place is now totally over grow with invasive plants. Apparently the evil ungulates enjoyed invasive plants.


 
 Hey Tony,

 They may be on the cusp of a breakthrough. You could suggest ungulate educational intervention via Tom Swift Electric Rifle... [8D]

 I'm considering myself lucky that the railroad Bull who busted me for reckless rail walking didn't Taze my ole azz, when he took me down. I think it would be a clock stopper, in my case.

 "Tuesday, August 16, 2011
Taser mishap costs Arizona firm $10 million


 The taser gun has been considered the primary choice for subduing perpetrators without lethal force, however, 127 lawsuits have been filed against the 50,000-volt weapon for killing a relative of their family. In every case except one, lawyers have successfully argued that the victim's drug use or pre-existing cardiac condition would have killed them from trauma from being physically detained by police officers in any circumstance.

 On July 19th, the TASER firm was required to pay $10 million to the family of Darryl Turner, a 17-year-old resident of Charlotte, North Carolina who died after a 37 second prolonged exposure to the shot of a taser gun.

 The taser gun has proven it can be lethal, killing about 450 people since 2001. Yet, the court's ruling accuses the negligence of the firm for properly training officers in correct use of the weapon, rather than the lethality of the weapon itself. 

 Turner was shot when police were called after Turner had an argument with the manager. The probes were shot into his chest when Turner lunged at a police officer. Officers are taught to only use a 5 second burst shot at an area other than the chest, due to the close proximity to the heart. The officer who fired the gun however, shot at the chest AND applied 37 seconds of the shock.

 Sadly, just hours after the Turner verdict, a police officer in the same department tased a 21-year-old man who died a few hours later. Officials are considering removing the high energy weapon from police officers belts." From.

 There's a series of videos on the Traffic Ticket Tazering of Jared Massey Right Here. Including some sorta Cable Access "CrimeTime 29" show that serides the "Whiner." You guys that watch it decide whether it was a righteous Tazering...

A Jury Found for Mr. Massey...

 It is seeming to me that there is a fair amount of tazering going on, not necessarily per procedure or protocol.

Ok to Tazer 10 Year Old? Mom says Please Do...







 "For crowd control, when a single taser wonâ€™t do:

 The Shockwave is meant to â€œde-escalate/defuse violent crowd/riot situations,â€ although I have a feeling that if you Taser the first wave of a crowd, it might get a lot more rowdy â€” especially if they see that your Shockwave is a one-shot device, or three at the most (plus you can duck)." From.


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## rockbot (Feb 6, 2012)

I guess the taser is a precursor to the electric chair. Sort of a warm-up![]


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## ironmountain (Feb 6, 2012)

crazy how a rule for walking dog off leash escalates.


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## RICKJJ59W (Feb 6, 2012)

> ORIGINAL:  ironmountain
> 
> crazy how a rule for walking dog off leash escalates.


 
 The rule doesn't escalate,ABN people talking about the rule escalates []


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## epackage (Feb 6, 2012)

Buddy of mine is a Ranger here in NJ and had a run in with "native people" riding ATV's in the woods, tried to question them and things got out of hand. Sadly my friend had to shoot one man who ended up dead, things went south because the tribe felt that he wasn't warranted in stopping the ATV rider to begin with and he ended up getting sued, and there was a court case and civil suits....


 Life is a bitch sometimes, and hopefully this stuff never happens again, even though I'm 100% sure it will[8|]


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## rockbot (Feb 6, 2012)

This is what happens when you video tape cops around here. I wonder what you would think if this happened in your town?


 http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/15232996/big-island-blogger-claims-police-brutality


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## JOETHECROW (Feb 6, 2012)

Hmmm, I'll bet it happens a lot of places and some folks won't speak up....

 How Ironic,...The police statement says it would okay to watch and film from a safe distance, must be this guy wasn't a safe distance?[8|]


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## blobbottlebob (Feb 6, 2012)

I just worked my way through this whole post and I feel drained. The female officer was insufficiently trained to be carrying a dangerous weapon. I'm sure she imagined that when she was given a false name, she had a dog-walking homicidal lunatic in her midst. She probably also thought that there was no chance that she could match up in a physical altercation with both the lunatic AND the dog. So, she uncerimoniously tased him in the back. Stupid and abusive. She was in so far over her head, its a wonder they let her roam the park at all. And the park ranger's _preparation-for-litigation-policy_ that its up to a ranger's individual discretion is really obnoxious. They should train the rangers exactly and precisely when a taser is appropriate and when its not. If you are going to use it to insure compliance in your _educational_ doggy leash campaigns, expect that rangers will become very unpopular very rapidly (and that lawsuits will follow).


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## surfaceone (Feb 6, 2012)

Hey Bob,

 I'm wondering what "false name" he gave her. Unless it was something like "Princess Lea," this being California & all, it might have been real. Musta been mighty offensive, to backshoot him without further preamble.

 I'm still wondering what kinda doggies, too. I do believe Mr. Hesterberg has retained an attorney. 

 The TV attornies may be starting to pay attention, too.

 "Teaching Citizens to Heel: Park Ranger Reportedly Tasers Man Walking Small Dogs Off Leash


 In Californiaâ€™s Rancho Corral de Tierra (part of the Golden Gate National Recreation Area), a National Park Service Ranger reportedly shot Gary Hesterberg in the back with a taser after he walked away during a confrontation over walking his two lapdogs off leash. He was then arrested on suspicion of failing to obey a lawful order, having dogs off-leash and knowingly providing false information. The park service spokesperson reportedly said it is all part of teaching citizens about the new leash law in the area . . . or teaching Hesterberg to heel.


 Witnesses objected that the force was excessive and said that the ranger refused to respond when confronted over the necessity or reason for the arrest.

 The ranger says that Hesterberg gave a false name and then began to walk away from the ranger. Howard Levitt, a spokesman for the park service, added that he did not have identification on him. Levitt explained that the ranger â€œpursued him a little bit and she did deploy her [electric-shock weapon] . . . That did stop him.â€

 It is common for people to walk their dogs off leash in the area, but when the area was made part of the national park system in December, a new leash rule was imposed.

 The article below says that Levitt explained that â€œthe ranger was trying to educate residents of the rule.â€ Wow, if true, that is quite a lesson plan. Stop, explain, tase, and repeat.

 The account of these witnesses not only raises serious questions of excessive force but also excessive charges that followed the alleged abuse. We have seen other cases of alleged abuse where citizens have been hit with an array of charges. This creates significant pressure for the accused to plead or remain silent. I do not see why a taser would be needed on such a minor offense." From.

 She mighta been better off Tazing then shooting him, and the doggies, like This Phoenix Officer...

 This story is equally bizarre: Ninth Circuit Rules Police Officers Were Justified in Tasering Pregnant Woman Three Times Over Traffic Ticket The rest of the story...

 A list of further outrageous Tazerings is RIGHT HERE...


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