# Two whiskey day.



## Macaco (Apr 23, 2014)

Hello All,I went for a dig at one of my usual spots this past Saturday. After many years of digging I found my first full sized embossed whiskey. Then I found my second! Two in one day. The first one I found was not a rare or valuable bottle but I like it. It is the big, amber LT&C whiskey from San Francisco. My second one is was a little nicer. It is a bluish aqua color 'N. Van Bergen & CO.' 'Gold Dust' 'Kentucky Bourbon'. The glass is perfect. No dings, scratches or cracks. There are light swirls of haze that I actually kind of like. The bottle has some nice whittling too. The top is applied. Down the neck and into the body of the bottle is a line that first appeared to be a fracture. I examined it under magnification and peered down the top into the bottle and it is a ridge of glass that tapers off behind the embossing. I'm guessing it was caused by a drop of molten glass running down into the bottle. Or is it a mold error? Does it affect the value of the bottle? Thanks for looking. Steve 

 

 

 

 I cleaned up the bottle a little more with soap, water and a soft bottle brush. There is still some gunk inside and some rust deposits on the reverse but I think I'm done cleaning. I'm afraid to over-handle it. Looks good to me. I'm having trouble getting a picture that shows the horse better. The horse looks good to the eye but the camera doesn't seem to like it. Any ideas for lighting? Direct backlight seems to wash out the embossing.


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## privvydigger (Apr 23, 2014)

NICE..... We don't see many of them around here...


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## Oldmill (Apr 23, 2014)

Wow that is an amazing bottle you must be thrilled to have pulled that from the ground


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## tigue710 (Apr 23, 2014)

That Gold Dust is a really good bottle.  Way to go!  That line might effect value to some people, but not to much in my opinion...


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## Macaco (Apr 23, 2014)

Oldmill said:
			
		

> Wow that is an amazing bottle you must be thrilled to have pulled that from the ground


Thanks Oldmill. Beyond thrilled. I have dug so many busted pieces of embossed whiskey bottles over the years without finding an intact one it was frustrating. This is by far the best bottle I have ever dug. Steve


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## Macaco (Apr 23, 2014)

privvydigger said:
			
		

> NICE..... We don't see many of them around here...


Thanks privvydigger. I never knew that bottle existed until I pulled one out of the mud. It seemed like an impossible amount of embossing when I wiped the mud and grime off it. Steve


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## cowseatmaize (Apr 23, 2014)

It's not a mold error or a drip of glass. I'd call it a fold or crease in the making.The mule is a bit disproportional but that should add value.[]


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## Macaco (Apr 23, 2014)

cowseatmaize said:
			
		

> It's not a mold error or a drip of glass. I'd call it a fold or crease in the making.The mule is a bit disproportional but that should add value.[]



A fold or crease is interesting. The exterior where the line is visible is perfectly smooth. Perhaps the outside of the fold/crease was polished smooth?LOL. If that's really a mule I'm in the money!


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## Macaco (Apr 23, 2014)

tigue710 said:
			
		

> That Gold Dust is a really good bottle.  Way to go!  That line might effect value to some people, but not to much in my opinion...


Thanks. The line looks like a crooked, inside seam. It's not too distracting though.


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## botlguy (Apr 23, 2014)

That, my friend, is a PREMIUM bottle. Value it HIGHLY. It's worth a LOT of money. I am quite familiar with that sort of bottle though I have never collected them. (Too rich for my blood). John Thomas , Western Whiskey bottle guru, values it, I believe, in 3 figures. Please give me some time to do some research in my reference books, I'm not at my best this evening. Just know you have a WINNER, hold on to it until you know just how good.


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## botlguy (Apr 23, 2014)

That, my friend, is a PREMIUM bottle. Value it HIGHLY. It's worth a LOT of money. I am quite familiar with that sort of bottle though I have never collected them. (Too rich for my blood). John Thomas , Western Whiskey bottle guru, values it, I believe, in 3 figures. Please give me some time to do some research in my reference books, I'm not at my best this evening. Just know you have a WINNER, hold on to it until you know just how good.


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## Macaco (Apr 23, 2014)

botlguy said:
			
		

> That, my friend, is a PREMIUM bottle. Value it HIGHLY. It's worth a LOT of money. I am quite familiar with that sort of bottle though I have never collected them. (Too rich for my blood). John Thomas , Western Whiskey bottle guru, values it, I believe, in 3 figures. Please give me some time to do some research in my reference books, I'm not at my best this evening. Just know you have a WINNER, hold on to it until you know just how good.


Hi Jim,

You helped me identify the little whiskey top Owl I dug about a year ago. Thanks again for that. I'm looking at it right now on my desk. It has been my favorite bottle. I think the new one takes top spot now. I have a copy of the John Thomas book "A choice list of the most desired older whiskey bottles". I picked up a copy at a used book store a while back. Excellent information on the 'Gold Dust' bottles is in there. There are some good online resources for info on it too. The 'Western Whiskey Gazette' has a good picture of one. I did a search on the newspaper archive site and found out the Van Bergen company was over on Clay St. in San Francisco so it's a true Western Whiskey. I would highly value any more information you can find in your other books. I have dug a bunch more Owls. I'll post some pics soon because I know you like those. Thanks again,Steve


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## CurbdiggerCarl (Apr 24, 2014)

I had to search my computer for my password just so I could post this response.I recently dug a Denver whiskey/wine crock that although I'm loving, pales in comparison to your find.Being out here in Denver where, frankly they don't have older whiskeys anywhere near the beauty of that piece.Clarke and Walker, and a couple others, but nothing in that color.You managed to dig a single, individual item that is an actual work of art.Cherish that Puppy!I'd be staring at that bottle, at every angle, and in every type of illumination, for hours on end.I'd come in late to work.Compliments aside, can you give us a date range and brief history of that bottle?When you're done staring?Carl


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## andy volkerts (Apr 24, 2014)

You done better than good, that is worth several thousand dollars, the line is a crudity that lots of western whiskey advocates like. That is quite a great bottle to get out of the bay mud. Hang onto it!........


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## sandchip (Apr 24, 2014)

Fantastic, beautiful bottle.


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## botlguy (Apr 24, 2014)

I don't have time today to completely go through Thomas' full description but will just add there are 4 versions of the Gold Dust bottles, yours being one of the last two. Check the "PROPS" word looking for the word "AGENTS" being slugged out, the slugged out version is 3rd, non-slugged being 4th and slightly more valuable. These come in Aqua and Clear, the earlier versions also in amber shades but not clear. BTW, my reference is: WHISKEY BOTTLES OF THE OLD WEST, published in 2002 after John's death in 2000.


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## Macaco (Apr 24, 2014)

CurbdiggerCarl said:
			
		

> I had to search my computer for my password just so I could post this response.I recently dug a Denver whiskey/wine crock that although I'm loving, pales in comparison to your find.Being out here in Denver where, frankly they don't have older whiskeys anywhere near the beauty of that piece.Clarke and Walker, and a couple others, but nothing in that color.You managed to dig a single, individual item that is an actual work of art.Cherish that Puppy!I'd be staring at that bottle, at every angle, and in every type of illumination, for hours on end.I'd come in late to work.Compliments aside, can you give us a date range and brief history of that bottle?When you're done staring?Carl


Thanks Carl,It is a nice looking bottle. The neck and the top have a glossy, bluish-aqua, hard candy look. No doubt they sold a lot of bourbon based on the eye appeal of the bottles back then. Here is what John Thomas says about the history of the bottle in his book "A Choice Listing of The Most Desired Older Whiskey Bottles" (1969): 125. GOLD DUST (SOLE PROPS.-SLUGGED)-(ca. early 1880's) A rather
unique bottle because of so many changes in the original John Van
Bergen mold (see No. 123). ”Barkhouse Bros.” was slugged out and
replaced by “N. Van Bergen”. In the area below the circle, “John”
was slugged out and replaced by “N” (see No. 124), and “Agents”
was slugged out and replaced by “Props.” The Van Bergen Company
certainly got very good use out of their original mold. It lasted
at least l5 years. Finally it must have gave out because a new
mold was made. The new mold incorporated some of the new features
in bottle manufacture as it produced bottles that were air vented
at the shoulder and were not very crude. The picture of the horse
on the new bottles was slightly smaller and had longer legs. Only
bottles made with the old mold are covered here. The bottles pro-
duced in the old mold have the glop tops, and come in clear glass,
that will not turn amethyst, or in various light shades of aqua..
There are no slugged out areas on the newer mold; the embossing
is sharp, and bottles from this mold were made in clear glass that
will turn amethyst. The tops are neatly applied. All the bottles
produced in the old mold that say “Sole Props.” seem to occur along
the California coast from Monterey to Trinidad. One was found in
Eureka, California, underneath an old house on Harris Street.
There are about 10 to 15 of the old aqua ones in western collect-
ions, and about 10 of the older clear Version. The clear ones are
usually etched because of reaction with the soil. Aqua-1OO-150-
322-250-300. Clear (older version)-35-45-100-150-175. I gather that mine was blown in the modified mold. Mr. Thomas refers to "Sole Props." embossed at the bottom. Mine is embossed "SOLE PROPTS.". Maybe there are variations. 'N Van Bergen & Co' were on Clay Street in San Francisco. Steve


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## Macaco (Apr 24, 2014)

andy volkerts said:
			
		

> You done better than good, that is worth several thousand dollars, the line is a crudity that lots of western whiskey advocates like. That is quite a great bottle to get out of the bay mud. Hang onto it!........


Thanks Andy.


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## Macaco (Apr 24, 2014)

botlguy said:
			
		

> I don't have time today to completely go through Thomas' full description but will just add there are 4 versions of the Gold Dust bottles, yours being one of the last two. Check the "PROPS" word looking for the word "AGENTS" being slugged out, the slugged out version is 3rd, non-slugged being 4th and slightly more valuable. These come in Aqua and Clear, the earlier versions also in amber shades but not clear. BTW, my reference is: WHISKEY BOTTLES OF THE OLD WEST, published in 2002 after John's death in 2000.



Thanks Jim,"PROPTS." doesn't appear slugged out. Perhaps mine didn't come from a modified mold. Interesting. That would make it the "non-slugged" "4th and slightly more valuable" version. Sounds good to me. Mr. Thomas refers to "Props" and shows it drawn that way in the "Choice Listing" book but mine is embossed "PROPTS." instead. Steve


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## 2find4me (Apr 24, 2014)

I guess you've probably seen this: EBAYIt is a highly sought after Western Whisky, they are something you only dream of owning, much less digging it out of the ground in that condition!!!!


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## Macaco (Apr 24, 2014)

2find4me said:
			
		

> I guess you've probably seen this: EBAYIt is a highly sought after Western Whisky, they are something you only dream of owning, much less digging it out of the ground in that condition!!!!


I did see that Ebay page. After looking at the pictures for the auction I'm pretty sure my bottle is better than that one.


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## cacarpetbagger (Apr 25, 2014)

The Gold Dust if a great score, congrats.


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## solitarycanary (Apr 25, 2014)

in a bottle of this age, the embossing was made by inserting a metal plate inside the mold. On the third photo, I see a mold seem, very faint, then i see that other line that runs through the neck. I wonder if that the outline of the metal plate, and the plate was made to fill one half of the entire mold? Perhaps the gaffer did not fire polish this away, like they usually did? I date it to around the 1870s.


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## andy volkerts (Apr 25, 2014)

[/quote]


			
				Macaco said:
			
		

> 2find4me said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You do have to admire the temerity of the putz that offered the seller 200.00 dollars for a thousand dollar bottle, What a guy!!


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## westernglassaddict (Apr 25, 2014)

The aqua Gold Dust's are scarce but not rare. This is a very nice example of this desirable fifth. The color looks rich, the embossing bold, and the condition appears excellent. Digging one is very special...congratulations! These sell in the $1500-$2500 range with the earlier amber versions bringing between $7000, and $12,000. The Gold Dusts are a collection in themselves with limitless colors from pure green to clear. There are about 35-40 aqua examples in collections. Nice bottle!


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## Lordbud (Apr 28, 2014)

Incredible bottle! I knew a guy from Redwood City who also got one of these out of the bay mud along with some SF druggists located nearby Clay Street in the City. Congrats on the impressive find. The imperfection will only add to the crudity value.


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## Macaco (Apr 28, 2014)

westernglassaddict said:
			
		

> The aqua Gold Dust's are scarce but not rare. This is a very nice example of this desirable fifth. The color looks rich, the embossing bold, and the condition appears excellent. Digging one is very special...congratulations! These sell in the $1500-$2500 range with the earlier amber versions bringing between $7000, and $12,000. The Gold Dusts are a collection in themselves with limitless colors from pure green to clear. There are about 35-40 aqua examples in collections. Nice bottle!



Thank you Dale, I went to your website. I like it. Steve


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## Macaco (Apr 28, 2014)

Lordbud said:
			
		

> Incredible bottle! I knew a guy from Redwood City who also got one of these out of the bay mud along with some SF druggists located nearby Clay Street in the City. Congrats on the impressive find. The imperfection will only add to the crudity value.


Thanks Jason, SF Bay mud is good stuff! Well, it has good stuff in it anyway. Steve


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