# German Half post bottle?



## hartmans2 (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi I am new to your forum and I have a question reguarding a bottle that I have. Got lost reading so many great threads with information but still a little lost trying to i.d this one. I don't have it here at my house at the moment so I will really be guessing at measurements but here goes...it is probably about 9" in H. The neck is probably 3-3.5" in length. I have photos I took a couple days ago but I hope I can get them posted correctly. 
 TIA for any information you might have
 Theresa
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1983.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_2001.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1993.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1987.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1980.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1979.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1975.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1985.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1992.jpg


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## farmerdan (Jan 7, 2010)

Honestly I've never seen anything quite like it but I can tell you It's pretty darn old - I would guess late 18th to early 19th century, and you're probably right about it being European in origin. There are a lot of guys here on the forum who know more than I so I hope to see some more posts on this thread. Mainly I just wanted to say Nice bottle - very crude and unique and the color is beautiful. Welcome to the forum!


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## bostaurus (Jan 7, 2010)

Sure looks like a German half post but it is a very strange shape.  Very cool bottle.


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## hartmans2 (Jan 7, 2010)

Hi thanks for the Welcome to the board! I'm a glass collector and by instinct and experience I thought it was just so unusual. Mostly love the color and the wavy lines on the glass sides. I posted this on the Antiques board on ebay as I do sell there and the comments I got were that it was very old or very new. You all know the feel from glass and this doesn't have any newness "feel" to it. lol I am going to pick it up this afternoon to bring it back to my house for accurate measurements so that may help to determine what it was used for? the neck I can say is very very narrow....I can't get my pinky inside it much further than the first say 1/2" of the top of it. The body is of course 4 sided but it's very stout. Probably measures a good 5" wide on each side and I'm guessing that it's that plus or minus a inch in H on the sides. I was thinking it must have originally held something that needed to poured very slowly or in small quantity? 
 Thanks for the comments so far. I am really curious about this bottle. 

 Theresa


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## botlguy (Jan 7, 2010)

Remember, this is one guy's opinion. Explore farther.

 It is definitely freeblown and made in the "German Half Post" style but in my opinion is contemporary, i.e. Not Old. I have seen a number of similar items currently for sale in stores such as Pier One and from a short distance look old. You mention a "feel" and I agree totally, old glass has a certain feel. Since I can not feel it I can't make comment on that. However, that is not the only clue. The color is wrong, the pontil is wrong, the neck is wrong, the collar is wrong.  I believe you will be able to find very similar, if not identical items for sale that were manufactured in Taiwan or China or some such place. Any decent glass blower can produce such items.

 That being said, I hope I am dead wrong. Mostly I am saying to examine it with care and get several opinions from experienced bottle collectors. Look for Contemporary sources that sell such items, home decorator stores, glass ware sales, import shops, etc.           Good Luck


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## hartmans2 (Jan 7, 2010)

Correct Measurements are as follows:

 8.75" from top to bottom 

 Two sides of the body measure 4" in W and have protruding areas in the center of the glass that bulge out slightly. *I can feel it and see it* vertical waves? for lack of the term in the glass are much more pronounced on these two sides. Length is 5.25"

 Other two sides measure wider at 4.25" and have a slight bump but not nearly as apparent as the other two sides. Still has the vertical waves but not as pronounces as the other two sides.

 The top opening measures just 5/8" but you can see when you look down the neck that it narrows. Approx 1.5" down the neck my pinky can go no further so I I measured the tip of my finger at 1/2" so I believe that 1.5" down the neck is narrower that 1/2". Hope that makes sense! lol

 Bottom base measures 4" X 4.25"

 OK hope that helps.....thanks in advance
 Theresa


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## hartmans2 (Jan 7, 2010)

Jim color in photo is diff. than color in person I have auto flash and it makes it seem "brighter" in the images. Let me see if I can work on getting a photo with exact coloration this has. 
 I'm no expert on bottles that is a certainty. lol I have however never seen anything like that at Pier One. 
 OFF to work on photo hopefully without flash. (new camera trying to figure out settings)

 Theresa


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## saratogadriver (Jan 7, 2010)

I'm not aware of anyone reproducing anything in the german half post method, which this bottle sure looks like it is.   I'm guessing european made case bottle of some sort.

 Has anyone seen anything repro half post method?  It isn't from pier one that I know of, I don't know of them selling anything with an actual pontil.

 Jim G


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## hartmans2 (Jan 7, 2010)

saratogadriver me either and would they go to the trouble of tooling the tops for something they sell for 8 bucks at Pier 1?
 I don't know.....seriously I don't but Pier One is down the street from me and I go in there alot. Never have I seen anything there with these methods of manufacture. But then again...I've got little little knowledge about bottles. ARt glass YES! 

 Theresa


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## farmerdan (Jan 7, 2010)

After some consideration and a second look at the photos, I must admit there are some signs that this might be new "art glass" Jim said the color  - yes this appears an unusual color for early glass, olive green would be more appropriate. (perhaps different photos might help) The pontil is reminiscent of many art glass pieces i've seen, and also there is the lack of base wear, and no visible seeds or potstones, which suggests new, high quality glass from a new, high-tech furnace. The topic is certainly up for debate..........[8|]


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## cyberdigger (Jan 7, 2010)

It's very cool, but it just can't be very old.. can it?


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## surfaceone (Jan 7, 2010)

Hello Theresa,

 Welcome to these pages, and thanks for bringing along the unusual looking bottle. After looking several times at your photos, I could not detect much, if any, base wear. This is something that I now look for, thanks to the knowledgeable folks who are eyeballing your bottle as we speak. Lack of base wear on a bottle of considerable age, is not a harbinger of authenticity, unless it has been slumbering in an attic like environment since first consumption.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 7, 2010)

Not sure of the exact age of the object (1940s or 1980s?) but in my opinion it is DEFINITELY not a 19th century bottle.  There are a number of threads that reference bottles of this type - I'd love for the sake of the owner for the bottle to be be period but that's simply not the case...


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## kungfufighter (Jan 7, 2010)

FWIW this bottle is seen in any number of different colors - amethyst, olive yellow, yellow green, etc.  It is not a reproduction per se (in that there are no known similar examples of the period) but rather a fantasy bottle (and a good one) that utilizes early glass-making methods to (falesly) recreate the appearance of an 18th or 19th century bottle.


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## hartmans2 (Jan 7, 2010)

"FWIW this bottle is seen in any number of different colors - amethyst, olive yellow, yellow green, etc."

 kungfufighter would you mind posting an example please since there are so many in diff. colors? TY

 Theresa


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## bostaurus (Jan 8, 2010)

So where do you think these were made?  To make them affordable it would probably have to be Mexico, Asia, India,or other country with cheap labor.  Unless,of course, it was a place where people expect to shell out more money..like a tourist area.  Folks shell out large amounts of money for glass in Venice.  Understandable if it is well made Venetian glass but there is some that is cheap, poorly made foreign stuff at Venetian prices.


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## saratogadriver (Jan 8, 2010)

I know where you can find this form, if not exactly the texture/age of glass.  And that is on the brand new American Bottle Auctions catalog that just came on the website today.   I'll try to post the link to the exact bottle I'm talking about.  Square, green, half post method (the one in the auction has a stopper), similar lip form...  As close as I've seen, only the glass looks a lot cruder on the ABA example.

http://www.rtam.com/americanbottle/cgi-bin/SHOWITEM.CGI

 I don't think you'll get much closer to a match on form and color.  I don't think you can rule this one out as original yet.   I've not ever seen a half post method recreation (but I don't collect half post, so my observation hardly constitutes authority).

 Jim G 

 P.S.   The link didn't work quite right.  It's item 212 in the catalog.  Let me see if I can post a pic.


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## saratogadriver (Jan 8, 2010)

Let's see if this works.


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## hartmans2 (Jan 8, 2010)

I tried really hard to get pics . Is it me or is GREEN just hard to photograph? Anyways....I took a few more of the lip and neck and one just directly into the body of the bottle. This glass is fairly clear but not totally....FYI I think I made a mistake in trying to wash it? I can't get the inside to dry out no matter what I do. I've tried a blow dryer on cool and warm and also tried to let it rest upside down but the angle the bottle has on the top keeps the water from dripping out all the way. Sorry for the condensation on the inside.
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_2035.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1975-1.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_2006.jpg
 https://i646.photobucket.com/albums/uu185/hartmans2/IMG_1990.jpg


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## botlguy (Jan 8, 2010)

Theresa: I hate to be the bearer of bad news and always reluctant to burst ones bubble. But the truth is ALWAYS best. The problem with your pictures, I believe, is your light source. Flash is not the way to go. If you can back light through translucent glass or better yet sign grade acryilic with 5,000 K flourescent tubes or use bright cloudy sunlight from a side angle, that will give true(er) color. (All computer monitors see differently) However, I don't believe that will make the real difference.

 There is just something not right about that piece even though it's quite similar to the auction photo. I know the auctioneer, Jeff Wichman, and he is quite knowledgeable about such items but he may also be led astray with the piece he is offering. I am not 100% convinced about that one either although it looks more authentic than yours. I would need to see both in person to be sure in my mind. As I said at the very first, I am simply giving my opinion based on limited information. Someone with some real expertise needs to view your bottle in person. Nothing substitutes for "hands on". 

 I used to have a German Half Post made contemorary item that I used for show purposes as a learning tool. The piece was made in Chechoslovakia (sp?) I think. I personally own a few "PITKIN" flasks made in the German Half Post style but they are of a much different form and really not good for comparison. 

 I sincerely hope I am wrong and that you find out it is an early, quality piece. IT COULD BE. I am just wanting you to make sure before you do anything with it. Find someone with experience in such items and try to get more than one hands on opinion.       Good Luck


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## hartmans2 (Jan 8, 2010)

Jim,
 I wouldn't do anything without knowing for certain what I have.... [] I may just have to ship this to you so you can get that hands on! lol Like I've said before....I have NO bottle experience what so ever. I only know what little I do because of sites like this one. So Whomevers the owner of this site I want to say THANK YOU! Weather this is old or new I know I have learned quite a bit just from the research.
 Thanks
 Theresa


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## surfaceone (Jan 8, 2010)

Good evening Ladies and Gentlemen, esprcially all you Jim's,

 I was absent the week at school when they went over the whole German Half Post method. So I made s stop over at Bill Lindsey's and found this:







Half-post method:  "A variation on the dip mold/pattern mold theme is a method of bottle production where the gather is slightly expanded then dipped again into the glass pot to apply a second layer of glass over the initial gather.  This second layer of glass typically covered the base and body portions of the first gather ending on the upper shoulder.  Postes was a French term for a gather of molten glass.  Thus the term "half-post" for this method, though these bottles are well more that "half" covered by the second coating of glass (McKearin & Wilson 1978).  The end point for this second layer of glass is indicated by a thickened ridge on the upper shoulder of the finished bottle.   Click Pitkin shoulder to see a close-up picture (flask to the right) of this ridge which shows just below the bottom of the neck and just above the pattern mold ridges.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




This method was used with regular shoulder height dip molds of various shapes and with pattern molds.  Bottles produced by this method are often called "double-dipped" in collector jargon.   Some early collectors incorrectly believed that the neck of these type bottles were "inserted" into the body of the bottle, a largely impossible feat.  The term "inserted neck" still crops up occasionally however (McKearin & Wilson 1978).  This production method is also often referred to as the "German half-post" method since it was believed to have originated in Germany (Munsey 1970). 

 Certain types of half-post produced bottles - like the "Pitkin" style flasks - were pattern molded after the application of the second layer of glass.  The flask could be patterned once (like the nursing bottle pictured above left) or patterned twice giving a "broken swirl" appearance to the bottle, which can often resemble popcorn kernels.  The forest green Pitkin style flask pictured to the right above was produced by the half-post method; note the horizontal ridge encircling the shoulder just below the neck.  This flask is single patterned on the upper 40% of the body and double patterned on the lower 60% (click picture to enlarge).  It was most likely made at a New England glassworks between 1780 and 1820 and would be referred as being "swirled to the right" (from the bottom of the body upwards) which is the most common direction for swirling on New England "Pitkins" (McKearin & Wilson 1978; Noordsy 2003).   The light green "Pitkin" style flask pictured in the pattern mold section above is another example of a double patterned "broken swirl" flask from the same era.  This is an unusual color for a New England style "Pitkin" as most were blown in darker shades of green and sometimes amber, e.g., olive green, olive amber (Noordsy 2003).
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Not all Pitkin style flasks were made by the New England glass factories.  Many were made by various glassworks a bit further to the west.  The Pitkin style flask to the left was most likely produced at a Midwestern glass factory - Ohio or possibly western Pennsylvania (Pittsburgh) - during the first third of the 19th century.  It's heritage is indicated by the brighter green color and the more circular shape of the bottle body.  This flask was also twice pattern molded resulting in the "broken swirl" pattern (McKearin & Wilson 1978).  Click Midwestern Pitkin close-up to view a close-up of this flask which distinctly shows the half-post "ridge" on the upper shoulder as well as the pattern mold ridges.  This flask would be referred to as being "swirled to the left."  Midwestern flasks were rarely if ever blown in olive-green or olive-amber and are most common in more vibrant greens, shades of amber, and aqua."

*So what am I missing here? I was presuming that there was  some sorta German secret handshake business in the back of this, but now seem to think this is an American thing. "Double dipping," is that an apt summation? Will someone take a moment to wise me up? Extra points for circles and arrows...*






1967


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## cyberdigger (Jan 8, 2010)

It's double dipped, and that's that.. so am I, BTW.. [>:]


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## surfaceone (Jan 8, 2010)

Evening Sir Charles,

 I know you have a depth of knowledge and a uniquely middle european sensibility... So was the "German" oar in this rowboat an German immigant to an early American glass works? Are there German Double Dippers in a German Historic Glass Haus? Was this ever done in contrasting colors? I'd like to see a Green double dipped in Amber. Would you have one-a-those up yer sleeve?






 1970


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## cyberdigger (Jan 8, 2010)

My middle european sensibility is telling me to get back to you on this, maybe next week.. [8|] If anyone else wants to try to explain how the H/P method works, please do tell.. I couldn't possibly be the only one who knows!!


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## saratogadriver (Jan 9, 2010)

Muy interesante!   I had not seen a reproed half post method bottle.  I always figured it was too much work, and I don't think Clevenger made anything half post.  I've seen some stuff at auction that I thought looked a bit suspect, but it's always sold as "continental, 1900 century".   You don't have any pics of a known repro half post method, do you?   As someone on here says, it's always school...

 As to description of the half post method, the "double dip" that I see described in other posts is about my understanding of it, blow partly on one gather, than grab a bit more glass to finish it up.  And yes, it is allegedly a gift from our German blowers.  Remember that Baron Steigel's workers were mostly german imports, as was he himself...

 The glass on this one doesn't look, from the pics, "old", like the one on American Bottle Auctions.   But the form sure is right...  Then again, those beautiful amethyst Steigel bottles don't look like "old" glass either, do they?

 Jim G






> ORIGINAL:  botlguy
> 
> Theresa: I hate to be the bearer of bad news and always reluctant to burst ones bubble. But the truth is ALWAYS best. The problem with your pictures, I believe, is your light source. Flash is not the way to go. If you can back light through translucent glass or better yet sign grade acryilic with 5,000 K flourescent tubes or use bright cloudy sunlight from a side angle, that will give true(er) color. (All computer monitors see differently) However, I don't believe that will make the real difference.
> 
> ...


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## kungfufighter (Jan 9, 2010)

Those who are interested can find a short discussion (and some pretty pictures!) of pattern molding and the German half-post techinique at the following address...

 http://www.jeffnholantiquebottles.com/webpages/ChapterFour.html


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## surfaceone (Jan 10, 2010)

> Those who are interested can find a short discussion (and some pretty pictures!) of pattern molding and the German half-post techinique at the following address...
> 
> http://www.jeffnholantiquebottles.com/webpages/ChapterFour.html


 
 Kudos unto you Jeff and Holly,

 Thankyou for the magnificent examples and wonderful photographs!









 I'm seeing great early Eastern and Midwestern Flasks. I'm feeling a lot of Delicious Double Dippers.

 I'm confused as to Theresa's bottle. I do not see the double dippin component there. Am I missing something? I think I see that the neck portion seems to have somewhat "slumped" across the proad plain of the "Shoulders." Where is the German Half Post Method apparent on her bottle?

 I also think of these 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 bottles when I think of Half Posting, but I do not see the apparency of the additional gather on this last one. Which was found here.

 This is me, basking in my ignorance, and hoping for further instruction.


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## hartmans2 (Jan 11, 2010)

If I could find just one like this out there.......that was NEW I would believe it was. lol But I actually went on a shopping trip this weekend to see if I could find any bottles finished this way at all the local import stores. World Market etc....non of the bottles I found looked remotely like this one. 

 Is it totally unthinkable that this old with no wear? If you could see the ribbing down the sides of the bottle in person you would think it was much like the flasks in some of the photos of old bottles. I realize the color is not the "norm" either but I seen such a wide range in colors of greens....even a few examples with a brighter green. If I can count the ribs in the glass down the sides would that say anything to anyone about it possibly being older? hmmmm now I'm going to have to go see if I count them. 

 Another ? is do the bubles in the glass say anything or the specks of darker/ash? in it? 

 Trying to believe this is New but just not feeling it is.

 Theresa


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## kungfufighter (Jan 11, 2010)

I do not think of these bottles as "new" either Theresa but I have seen enough of them in the exact same form and construction technique (in an array of un-natural colors) to feel quite certain that they are not a 19th century bottle.  With that said, bottles of this type are often sold at auction for good money when either the buyer or seller has not previously encountered a similar object.  My best guess is that they came on the market in the 1970s or 1980s...


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## kungfufighter (Jan 11, 2010)

To answer Surfaceone's question the junction of the first and second gather is fairly well hidden by the shape of the shoulder but it is there...


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## surfaceone (Jan 11, 2010)

Hello Theresa,

 How/when/where did you acquire your bottle? You could check here & see if there is an upcoming show close to you. You could tie a string around the neck, hang a sign on it asking for information, and wear it as a necklace, or not...

 I like the form of your bottle, but still do not think it is antique, at least as antique as I am.









> To answer Surfaceone's question the junction of the first and second gather is fairly well hidden by the shape of the shoulder but it is there...


 
 Thanks Jeff,

 Are you speaking of the old German painted guy I put up, or of Theresa's bottle? I'm so easily confused...


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## kungfufighter (Jan 11, 2010)

Both, really.  The "hard shoulders" of case-style bottles make it difficult to discern the half-post technique from a photo...


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## surfaceone (Jan 11, 2010)

> The "hard shoulders" of case-style bottles make it difficult to discern the half-post technique from a photo...


 
 Wait a minute, Jeff,

 Are the old case Gins typically made in the German Half Post method, also? All those heavy shouldered, Pig Snouted guys?  Would they be considered Dutch Half Posters, or is Half Posting the provenance of the Germans? Were there other bottles, that we see regularly on these pages, that are under-the-radar Half Posters? I'm gonna have to adjust my eyeballing again, and really concentrate on the shoulders more.  

 I really appreciate your efforts in trying to improve my lack of knowledge on this method. Thank you...


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## kungfufighter (Jan 11, 2010)

No, the Dutch case style bottles are not half-post but rather dip molded using a single gather.  Theresa's bottle as well as the Germn/Alpine bottle you posted photos of are both blown using the half-post method (reinsertion of the first gather into the batch of metal to form a second layer or gather), a technique derived from the Germans but not exclusively used by them.


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## botlguy (Jan 11, 2010)

Can you see the Double Dip / Half Post method now?


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## surfaceone (Jan 11, 2010)

Thank you Jeff and Jim,

 Yes, Jim, NOW i see it. Thanks for zeroing in on it for me.

 So lemme axe youse guys, "Does it take a gifted glassblower to do the GHP method? Is it significantly more labor intensive from a production standpoint?" Is the whole GHP method confined to the world of flasks?

 Has anyone seen a Two Tone Double Dipper? I'm thinking Amber over Green or Dark Olive? Sorry, this occurred to me when the whole double dipping concept was broached, and now I can't get it out of my head... A lovely thought it is, I say.


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## RED Matthews (Jan 11, 2010)

Hello to those interested in another way of describing what we see when we identify a bottle as one made by the German Half-Post Method.

     First and foremost, I have found from my reading that the term GERMAN HALF-POST isnâ€™t quite fair to the start of this method of making bottles. 

  As far as is really known the process developed in the glasshouses of the Roman Empire.  When the Roman Empire crumbled, Germany sent several of their glass workers to Rome to evaluate the methods, tooling, and processes that could be of interest to their actions and processes.  One of the techniques that came back to Germany was the Half-Post process.       This is an attempt to explain it in my way of assembling TMI (to much information).     The objective bottle that was to be made, included the need for a smaller neck size than the body of the bottle had to have.  This was accomplished by gathering a moderate amount of glass on their blowpipe â€“ then blowing a puff of air into it and rolling it with a paddle tool to make it longer in a cylinder form.  No doubt this would be about twice the length of the needed neck.  This done they would insert the glass end on that form back into the glass crucible and gather the amount of glass needed to make the required bottle body size.  Then they would continue their blow to form the larger body form; and shape the required form as they blew the bottle to size.       The glass from the end of the first gather was cooled in the process of making it and this cooling was reheated by the new gather of glass.  The amount of cooling near the top depth of the second dip did not reheat as well, so in the blowing of the bottle in that chilled area gave the bottle a thicker ring of glass around the neck to shoulder match of the created bottle, this being the main evidence of the German Half-Post glass identity from the process of making the bottle.  

 I am sure that you have seen the stretch marks and twisted shoulder to neck glass on bottles that were shaped from the initial gather of enough glass to create the bottle that was needed, in a single gather of glass to make it.

 I will have to re-read this again and maybe make changes.  RED Matthews


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## RED Matthews (Jan 11, 2010)

Hi surfaceone.  I just read your last post and had to do another point of half post bottles.  When you realize the difference in the amount of glass picked up in the second gather, you have to realize the proportionate difference in the weight of the second gather that could or would bend the first gather of the neck section to make the neck crooked.  I am sure that that neck had to be cooled enough to resist the pliable bending of the neck with the heavier glass on it.  
 I don't recall ever seeing a different color on the second gather.  It would have required another crucible in the glory hole opening.  It is a neat idea though.  RED Matthews


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## cyberdigger (Jan 11, 2010)

Not for nothing, but are there any "triple-dipped" bottles ?? ..or "double-half-posts" .."half-half-posts" .. "double Deutch half-n-half havsies"  ?? [&:]


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## Penn Digger (Jan 12, 2010)

Enough already, is it the "real deal" or not?

 PD


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## hartmans2 (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm hearing you all! I really am [] Can someone pretty pleeeease show me photos of the said 70's glass to compare to this? Or perhaps one pic. of the bottles someone said were like this one and found in Many Colors. Not that I don't believe anyone just like to SEE them.

 Theresa


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## hartmans2 (Jan 12, 2010)

Penn Digger I "think" that most believe it's new.....

 Someone asked where did I find this?

 I found in here in California. I was at an estate sale and they were bringing boxes down from the rafters in the garage. This was wrapped in a towel inside one of the boxes. Lots of old bottles but most of them were stacked upon eachother. This was nicely wrapped with newspaper with towels around it. 

 Theresa


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## cowseatmaize (Jan 12, 2010)

> I found in here in California. I was at an estate sale and they were bringing boxes down from the rafters in the garage. This was wrapped in a towel inside one of the boxes. Lots of old bottles but most of them were stacked upon eachother. This was nicely wrapped with newspaper with towels around it.


 
 That might help. What else was in the box? Were they Wheaton commemorative type,, more obvious art glass types, decanters from distilleries etc. or were they definitely old? 
 It may indicate the kind of bottles and age period that the owner was collecting.


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## annie44 (Jan 12, 2010)

Here is  a link to another discussion that might be of interest:

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-240793/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm

 There is nothing about the bottle being discussed in this thread (the bright green bottle) that appears old to me.......


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## saratogadriver (Jan 12, 2010)

So far, I've posted one bottle off American Bottle Auctions that is very similar to this one, although with "older, cruder looking" glass.   No one else has posted a pic of a "new", "repro", "20th century" etc bottle similar to this one.   We've heard a claim that the half post method has been reproduced in "new" glass.  Let's see something to back that claim up.   I have personally never seen a "new" half post method bottle, but that's just what I've seen.  I'm an ink collector, so my opinion is hardly dispositive.    Let's see an example of a 20th century half post bottle for this OP to compare to their purchase.

 Jim G


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

Check the link above for a new, paint decorated half-post bottle.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

Also, please note that this bottle is NOT a reproduction, as there are no known commensurate bottles of the period.  I do not have any photos of similar modern decorative bottles but I see them regularly at shows and auctions.  As with many spurious objects, bottles of this type were slowly filtered into the marketplace and have fulfilled intentions by causing confusion and generating sometimes substantial prices.


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## RED Matthews (Jan 12, 2010)

Hello all this was my message to cyberdigger and his questions.  He told me I should include it here as my answer - so here it is if I do it right.

 Hi,  I took note of your various other word descriptions and thought I should explain that we are talking about doing this forming on the end of a 5 to 7' steel blowpipe that has to be held up in the air and turned to cool the outer skin of the pliable hot glass.  I am sure they had some big men because I have a seven gallon demijohn that was free blown on the end of a blowpipe and that would be a heavy load to handle.  There would have to be a reason to create the variations you mentioned.  RED M.


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## ajohn (Jan 12, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  saratogadriver
> 
> I'm not aware of anyone reproducing anything in the german half post method, which this bottle sure looks like it is.   I'm guessing european made case bottle of some sort.
> 
> ...


 I believe these two were determined repos.A heck of a lot of work if you ask me!All the sides,for the most part, were ground flat.


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## ajohn (Jan 12, 2010)

Applied lip???


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## ajohn (Jan 12, 2010)

Base.The open pontil is still visible. You can see the ground (or polished) side.


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## ajohn (Jan 12, 2010)

Even the stoppers look like they took some work.


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## saratogadriver (Jan 12, 2010)

I've checked the link above.  What I see is a lot of debate and speculation, with little in the way of hard facts.    No offense.  I've bought from you before, as has my mother, and you know a h--l of a lot more about bottles of this era than I do.   Now, you want to debate VT medicines or inks?   I can hold my own with you...  But this stuff is not my area.   Yet, in the previous link, I see lots of debate between major collectors, but little hard evidence one way or the other.

 No one has come up with any definitive evidence that any of these bottles aren't old.   I agree on some of those painted bottles the paint looks pretty suspect.   BUT, if they are repros, where are they coming from?  And why isn't there better documentation that they are, in fact, repros.   For example, we who have collected for any length of time know a clevenger flask from an old one (usually), or know that they make US Navy repros for civil war reenactment use.    But where are these half post method repros (I use the term loosely) coming from?   When?   Why don't we see more of them?   In fact, I could write off the paint on some of those as a recent addition, and still see those bottles themselves as being old (probably european).

 I just don't think the OP's bottle has been proven to be either repro or old, one way or the other, based on anything I've read so far.

 Jim G







> ORIGINAL: kungfufighter
> 
> Check the link above for a new, paint decorated half-post bottle.


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## saratogadriver (Jan 12, 2010)

Were the BOTTLES repro?   Or were they old bottles that were enhanced?    If they were repros, was a source ever determined?  The bottles themselves look to my relatively untrained eye like old liquor bottles that I have seen from travel cases (a bunch of case bottles in a wooden travel box).   

 Jim G




> ORIGINAL: ajohn
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## ajohn (Jan 12, 2010)

Jim, I hear ya when it comes to "out of my area"and have in the past embarrassed myself with what little knowledge I have acquired.I would have bet my best jar on my belief that these were NOT reproductions,copies,or interpretations,of 19th century liqueur bottles.
 I based my belief on the knowledge of these type of bottles sometimes came in their own cases.So...when I noticed the ground(and polished)sides I deduced they were of that sort.
 (I even laid them down and asked the dealer for a straight edge and did like the picture).
 I figured they were ground to fit in the case.
  I have accepted the consensus from the more knowledgeable here.
 Now,please understand that I'm NOT saying it's not OK to question anyone or anything,especially the the more knowledgeable folks here.For how am I to learn?
 What I am saying is that I accept the consensus until I have done more research.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

I'm not sure who told you that your bottles were repros AJohn but they sure look OK to me.

 As to Saratogadriver's questions about the debate between collectors on a previous post, Sewellbottleman contacted me via a PM and made it clear that he now viewed the bottle in question as a reproduction.


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## saratogadriver (Jan 12, 2010)

AJohn, I have not rejected the consensus on this bottle.   I'm asking for some proof of what has been asserted by some, that the OP's bottle is not old.    Having read the prior string on this issue, I saw SOME people (Including Jeff Noordsey, who I acknowledge as an expert in this older glass)  say the bottle in question there was not old, but I also saw others with info from equally good sources that seemed to say the bottle was indeed old.

 With the authorities seemingly split on whether these are old or new, I'm asking if there is any proof, like can someone name the source of these "new" half post method bottles, or an ad for them, or a very "obviously" "new" bottle.   I think, if such evidence exists, we owe it to the OP to come forth with it. 

 Much of what one would need to do in this case involves the "feel" of the bottle, and we all know that as well.  Weight of the glass, how it looks in person, etc.   I'd like to hear what Jim Hagenbush or someone of similar experience would have to say about this one, if he sees it in person, for example.      

 It's just that several people have suggested this is cut and dried, while others say it's not.   To my eye, it doesn't look cut and dried that it is a new bottle.  Despite what several on here say, I'm not sure that any consensus has yet been reached.

 Jim G


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

You will not often see these reproduction bottles at bottle shows because most folks have determined that they are not right and thus there is not a financial advantage to selling them in that venue.  Where I do see these bottles is at antique shows, where the unwary will often spend too much on what is not a period bottle.  There really is nothing "right" about these half-post case bottles - the nuances of manufacture are "off," the colors are not right, the metal (glass) is too bright and shiny (i.e. likely not coal or wood fired and thus overly refined) and none of the many I have seen show honest evidence of wear.  No, you cannot find them in a Wheaton catalog or with MMA etched upon the base but that doesn't change the fact that they are modern decorative bottles.  I have been wrong many times about many things (and will surely continue to make errors in the future) but in this case I am as close to 100% certain as I can be.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

As to Jim and/or Norm's feelings about bottles of this type their feelings have been made loud and clear by the fact they have not and will not run them in a catalogued sale...


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## GuntherHess (Jan 12, 2010)

AJohn,
 One thing I have noticed on later made bottles is they did not properly match the ground glass stoppers to the bottles. Both the bottle neck and the stopper should be ground and fit very well. These stoppers were designed to hold fluids but to pass gases.  The stoppers you picture dont seem to be ground well. Do they fit well?  Its so hard to judge from photos. Nothing compares to holding glass in your hands.


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## saratogadriver (Jan 12, 2010)

Well, Jeff, that somewhat changes my view.  I take it that he had someone look at the painted bottle in person?   

 Do we know of a source for these "new" bottles?   That would clinch it for me.

 Jim G



> ORIGINAL: kungfufighter
> 
> I'm not sure who told you that your bottles were repros AJohn but they sure look OK to me.
> 
> As to Saratogadriver's questions about the debate between collectors on a previous post, Sewellbottleman contacted me via a PM and made it clear that he now viewed the bottle in question as a reproduction.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

I do not know of the source Jim but here's a picture of another in yellow olive...

 http://www.americanbottle.com/pic48/123.jpg


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

Oops, I did not address that - Matt is correct, those are not the proper stoppers for AJohn's case bottles.  The matching soppers would be solid and ground with a coin-shaped finial.


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## earlyglass (Jan 12, 2010)

Like this thread needs another two cents... [] but here is mine.

 The original green case bottle is a WELL-KNOWN reproduction. I have seen them in bright colors such as this green, yellow, amethyst, etc. Although I cannot definitively say where the reproductions originated from, the color is completely unknown to any 18th century glass that I have ever seen. They also have a very slick "newer" surface to them. They have been sold (unknowing misrepresentation) as early pieces, however, they are not. 

 The bottles that ajohn have are original 18th century case bottles. These are continental, although there may have been some blown in the early colonial era... Steigel. I don't know for sure how to tell the local examples from the foreign ones, however, it really doesn't matter to me... 18th century glass! Here is an original case of these... everything about it is early, including the hardware and finish. 

 Mike


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## earlyglass (Jan 12, 2010)

another shot...


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## botlguy (Jan 12, 2010)

I have to jump back in here and say thet Jeff / kungfufighter has expressed my sentiments exactly. I have to say "been there done that". I do not currently have an example to photograph or I would. However, I have handled them in the past. Just because we can't put hands on an example right now doesn't mean they don't exist. I know they do. I HATE this kind of stuff for the damage it does to authentic items. Evidence of that statement is the discussion we are having right now.

 I agree that there is no "Proof" at the moment nor a concensus. We are simply in the investigative stage right now. The owner can believe it is authentically old until PROVEN otherwise. I wouldn't, however, present it for sale as such just yet. I live out in the woods and don't get to "market" very often but when I have the opportunity I will search for some "proof". 

 I believe these sorts of discussions are VERY healthy for the hobby and add to the learning curve of novice and old timer alike. I am learning by this exercise. I suspect this topic will continue for awhile and that is alright in my opinion.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

I am in hearty agreement with Jim/botlguy - discussion is ALWAYS good for the hobby.  Quite frankly I wish that there was more discourse of this nature.  With that said, it is imperative that one stand fast when confronted with known reproductions/fantasy bottles as they can be quite hurtful to an unknowing buyer.  I too am learning every day and certainly have plenty of gaps in my knowledge but I feel that it's important to take an assertive stance when dealing with an object I know not to be 19th century. 

 Thanks to earlyglass for chiming in - both Mike and I have seen lots of these bottles over the years and it's never fun to either see folks pay too much for them or to let hopeful sellers know that their bottle is not period.


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## ajohn (Jan 12, 2010)

Now that you mentioned it,I questioned(to myself) that fact.I just assumed that the stoppers also had a gasket piece that fit on them to keep them sealed when they were "traveling".Now that I look at them again,they do not look like they would fit.
   What is a "coin shaped finial"


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

Hi AJohn!  I am perhaps writing quicker than I am thinking.  Your case-style bottles were typically fitted with stoppers having a ground shank (that fits in the neck) and a ball shaped (as shown in earlyglass's pictures) or coin-shaped top (or finial).As with Mike's bottles they were sometimes enameled and sometimes plain.


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## ajohn (Jan 12, 2010)

Thanks for that info.Thanks Mike for posting those pics.I'm on my way to my box of stoppers!


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## GuntherHess (Jan 12, 2010)

Those stoppers dont look like they match the bottles.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 12, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  GuntherHess
> 
> Those stoppers dont look like they match the bottles.


 
 Agreed


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## annie44 (Jan 12, 2010)

Art glass bottle on ebay......

 http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Art-Glass-Bottle-Bi-Color-Pontil_W0QQitemZ220536706306QQihZ012QQcategoryZ988QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26ps%3D63


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## saratogadriver (Jan 12, 2010)

See, that one's obvious to me, even from the pics.  It looks like bottles from the Jamestown Glass operation, where I've stood and watched them blow these.  That particular green glass stands out to me as modern (although I've owned a CT/NE utility in about that color and quality of glass that had a very old blacking bottle label on it that I know was old (purchased 4 for $1.50 apiece back in the early 80s at a garage sale along with an 1850s era master ink, a bunch of pontiled puffs and other period pieces that still had lots of dirt from whatever attic they wandered out of)).

 You guys have basically convinced me.   Until this thread, I did not realize that anyone had made a modern Half Post Method bottle.  If I bought any HPM, I'd only be buying a flask anyway, and then only something I knew was American (Euro stuff not my thing).   But it's good to know what is out there.

 I'd still like to know the source, but it doesn't appear that information is readily available out there.  Not one of the easy to define places like clevenger, and certainly doesn't look like the cheap czech repros that I've seen (and own one of).

 Jim G




> ORIGINAL:  annie44
> 
> Art glass bottle on ebay......
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.com/Nice-Art-Glass-Bottle-Bi-Color-Pontil_W0QQitemZ220536706306QQihZ012QQcategoryZ988QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286.m7QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D4%26ps%3D63


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## baltbottles (Jan 12, 2010)

I will add my two cents being I have probably dug more 18th century privies then anyopne else on this site. I will tell you I have never seen a color or form like that in an 18th century context. Also if these were old I would suspect that there would be examples listed in early collections and books. Which is also lacking. So its of my opinion that these have only been showing up within the past 10-15 years at the most. And quite a few of them at that. So to me the evidence points to a modern made bottle.

 On the other hand Ajohns two bottles are orginal and whoever told him they were repros was wrong. Everything about his bottles are right except the two modern stoppers that were sold with them to replace the orginal missing stoppers.

 Chris


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## farmerdan (Jan 12, 2010)

WOW this has become quite a thread! When I remarked that the topic was certainly up for debate, I had no idea I would learn so much from a single thread - and from some of the country's true experts on the subject! Nothing compares to this forum for amassed knowledge and the great people who are willing to share it. I bet the OP's mind is blown! Thanks everyone, and I hope we can somehow come to a final determination. My two cents- I think I"ve definitely been swayed to the "NEW" side. Still a cool bottle- there would certainly be a place for it on my shelf!


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## cyberdigger (Jan 12, 2010)

I just LOVE threads like this!! I learn so much about bottles and in such an enjoyable and interesting, random kind of way..  thanks to all you amazingly well informed folks who share their knowledge and wisdom with the rest of us!! Thank you ! ! !
 ..as a token of my sincere appreciation, I will not make a single silly wisecrack on this thread.. unless provoked..


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## farmerdan (Jan 12, 2010)

Hmmmm....how to provoke Charlie............That bottle 'O' crack empty yet? lol


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## hartmans2 (Jan 12, 2010)

Annie with all due respect I don't see how that resembles my bottle?

 You guys are all great! I love a good discussion and I love researching my finds along the way. For now I will display this bottle nicely [] One day I will have proven evidence either one way or the other. lol For now I give it a place of honor with the title of unproven age. Color although we think it to bright for a common bottle of the GHP it may have been a "fluke" or a just a darned good batch of glass! lol As for wear who knows where and what this bottle has seen? maybe it's just seen the 70's-2010 in a box?  Who knows.....for now I will just keep it.

 The other bottles? someone asked about in the boxes....I seriously have no clue. They looked OLD to me but remember I am the one who hand picked the prettiest one I could find. LOL and it's new so there is probably little reason to ask me that to begin with. []

 What I really love to do is DIG!! I want to learn where to go to DIG my own bottles......
 is there a link to a really informative thread for me to READ? this one has been fun and I have appreciated all your comments and theories.
 Theresa


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## baltbottles (Jan 13, 2010)

Heres another one of these listed on ebay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Half-Post-Emerald-Green-5-Pint-Bottle-w-Pontil-c-1780_W0QQitemZ120516474307QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item1c0f5775c3

 Again to my eyes this looks new and the seller states that thet seen two more like it at a recent bottle show. It soulnds like there are alot of these things around.

 Chris


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## kungfufighter (Jan 13, 2010)

I'll lay $5 on the fact that the "informed collector" with the BS story about the bottle being 18th century Mexican has at least one example of this bottle he or she is trying to sell.  Anyone want to raise?

 No doubt that these are attractive, decorative bottles.  They are simply not old.


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## GuntherHess (Jan 13, 2010)

Wouldnt 18th century mexico be getting virtually all its glass from Spain?


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## surfaceone (Jan 13, 2010)

Great e-bay roadside attraction, Chris!

 The description and unnamed "expert" and "informed" opinions contained therein are very telling, yet NON illustrative.

 I'm harkening back to something Theresa mentioned about hers, 





> the neck I can say is very very narrow....I can't get my pinky inside it much further than the first say 1/2" of the top of it.


 
 Theresa, these old bottles were nothing, if not utilitarian. If you cannot pour it, this would not be a good sign, in my opinion. 

 You have brought to the cyber table here a very thought provoking bottle. Your inquiries have generated wonderful interest and ultra informative commentary by some of the most experienced members. I am clearly not among them.

 You might treat yourself, and take it on a road trip, maybe to the Baltimore Show, and let several experienced experts see and handle your bottle to satisfy your quest for knowledge. Perhaps someone could suggest a venue that might be more appropriate. I don't know if the old California bottle hands are used to seeing this type of glass.

 Thanks to everyone that has made this such a "teachable" thread. I feel smarter already [8D]


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## RED Matthews (Jan 13, 2010)

Hello baltbottles and who else caught this point.  I checked on your listing and read the description.  In that text the man suggested there were two pontils over lapping each other.  My question is why would there be two.  The first gather for the neck was just elongated for the neck size and also to have enough glass to pick up the second gather for the size of the bottles main body.  
 This is enough to tell me what I need to know.  RED Matthews


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## rockbot (Jan 13, 2010)

I don't see what useful purpose a bottle of that shape would have other then decoration. The contents would never pour in any useful fashion. Interesting thread though!


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## saratogadriver (Jan 13, 2010)

See, this is the sort of evidence I was looking for.   When these things start showing up out of no-where with a suspicious provenance, it's time to start asking questions.

 These are starting to remind me of the Ben Franklin inkwells.   Some came from France and are quite old, some were made in Mexico later, like 20th century, and are not antiques.   There were purportedly made in the same molds, but they are way cruder.  They are, however, made in what appear to be the old technique.   They aren't ABM in other words.  Yet serious ink collectors will still get stung, and I've seen a number of them go through reputable auctions where I've rubbed my head and doubted the item.  

 ANY time I start hearing about a Mexican source for a decent bottle, it trips my BS meter.

 It looks like this lovely bottle, while quite decorative, is probably not old.   OP, if a serious collector makes you an offer on it, believing in their mind it is old, and you tell them there is some question and they still want it, then it would be a good time to sell it.  

 Jim G




> ORIGINAL:  baltbottles
> 
> Heres another one of these listed on ebay.
> 
> ...


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## saratogadriver (Jan 13, 2010)

Is there such a thing as a good, 18th century Mexican bottle?   No slight intended on Mexico, but the only stuff I have ever seen is half baked repros of older, high end stuff, like the Ben Franklin inkwell.   They MUST have made bottles.   I mean, tequila did originate in Mexico, right?   They had to bottle it in something...

 Jim G





> ORIGINAL:  kungfufighter
> 
> I'll lay $5 on the fact that the "informed collector" with the BS story about the bottle being 18th century Mexican has at least one example of this bottle he or she is trying to sell.Â  Anyone want to raise?
> 
> No doubt that these are attractive, decorative bottles.Â  They are simply not old.


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## GuntherHess (Jan 13, 2010)

I havent heard much about early Mexican glass but I know they were excellent potters.
 I expect thier spirits came in ceramics.


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## RED Matthews (Jan 13, 2010)

Hello rockbot,  I came back here to advise you that in the late 16th century and a lot of the 17th there were a lot of bottles made in this shape in Europe, because they were efficently shipped in wooden crates.  The Case Gins were made square to fit in crates.  After the bottles were packed they filled the space around the glass with grain hulls - like buckwheat to help them survive the shipping bumps.

 The following book will show you a lot of the early ones and it is the #1 book in my opinion, for learning about early glass. 

 It is:#1 ANTIQUE GLASS BOTTLES Their History and Evolution (1500-1850)
  By Willy Van den Bossche â€“ My favorite because it is the most complete and informative book on old glass production that there is available to us.

 RED Matthews


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## rockbot (Jan 14, 2010)

Hi Red, thank you for the info on that book. When I saw the dimensions it kind of threw me off. One would have to pour using two hands as the bottle is six inches on its side. The opening also appeared to be quite small. It would be interested to see it in use.

 Aloha, Rocky


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## kungfufighter (Jan 14, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  rockbot
> 
> I don't see what useful purpose a bottle of that shape would have other then decoration. The contents would never pour in any useful fashion. Interesting thread though!


 
 Kudos to Rockbot for hitting the nail squarely on the head!  Yes, the rectangle is a common shape for a period bottle but the size and shape of this particular bottle coupled with the long neck and small opening simply does not "work."  Bottles of the 18th and 19th century were made for UTLITY.  Teir decorative qualities are secondary.  I agree with Red, the Van den Bossche book is an important resource and FWIW, there are no remotely similar bottles pictured there.


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## kungfufighter (Jan 14, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  saratogadriver
> 
> Is there such a thing as a good, 18th century Mexican bottle?   No slight intended on Mexico, but the only stuff I have ever seen is half baked repros of older, high end stuff, like the Ben Franklin inkwell.   They MUST have made bottles.   I mean, tequila did originate in Mexico, right?   They had to bottle it in something...
> 
> Jim G


 
 There is some evidence that a small glass house was in operation in Puebla, Mexico during the 16th century as well as a relatively obscure reference in Edwin Atlee Barber's 1908 book that mentions glassmaking in Mexico but as noted by Gunther, the likely source of their 18th century bottles was Spain, as Mexico did not gain Independence until the 1820s.  I do not know of any hard evidence showing that bottles were produced on a substatial scale in Mexico during the 18th century.


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## woody (Jan 14, 2010)

Willy Van den Bossche is a forum member signing up in the beginning of this forum.
 If you do a member search of his name you can email him or PM him.


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## RED Matthews (Jan 14, 2010)

Thank you woody,  I have had some contact with him via email and regular mail, I even bought my book directly from him.  I also have another European friend that I am in frequent visits with.  In fact he came to visit us in NY State and we spent three days together with them and our wives at the Corning Glass Museum in Corning, NY.  
 I enjoy knowing and visiting with bottle people - they are a high percentage of good folks.

 I didn't ever look for him on the Forum - but I will check it out in a few minutes.  RED M.


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## bostaurus (Jan 14, 2010)

I am going to try and post a picture i have of some German bottles.  The picture may be rather small.  I can't remember where I got the picture from...sorry.  I just remember it was from an antique glass site.
 I can't tell if the in the front is square or not...it does have that strange dumpy body and long neck.


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## RED Matthews (Jan 14, 2010)

Now I have one for all you serious studiers of the German Half Post process.  I questioned this man regarding the need for two pontil marks on a bottle made with this process. This was his reply - I just wanted to see what he came back with. - I hope you recognize the eBay seller:

*Dear redmatt,*
 Hi, This bottle was blown with a pontil mark. It was then coated with a second layer of glass and with another pontal mark. You can see the first inner layer mark from inside the bottle and it does line up exactly with the mark from the outer layer. Regards, Tim
 - monroelamp

 It is almost sad, in my book.  RED Matthews


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## earlyglass (Jan 15, 2010)

One thing I would like to add to this post since we are on the discussion.... I have a copy of Van De Bossche's book. I use it quite a bit and I think he has done a phenomenal job educating collectors with information regarding glass origins and characteristics. What I would like to say is in no way a criticism toward him or his publication because have high regards for the job he has done. However, I have recognized that much of the glass (primarily during the early 18th c. into the early 19th c.) that has now been labeled as foreign, was also produced in the early American colonies and early United States. Obviously, glassblowers migrating to the "new world" brought thier talents and techniques. This is evident in the shards uncovered at the glasshouse sites. A collector looking at these shards, and knowing that they were excavated locally, would be enlightened by the vast quantity and diversity of glass produced. Outside of this context, a collector would quickly pass these off as not being American. Keep this in mind. As one collector may be convinced that a piece is Austrian, Dutch, English or whatever and another collector believes it to be from Germantown, Wistarburgh, or Pitkin... actually, both collectors may be correct!


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## RED Matthews (Jan 16, 2010)

Hello earlyglass,  I have to agree with you all the way.  I am glad to see you take a stand and advise others of the possible fallacy of assuming their bottle came from Europe.  I have studied a lot of information on shard analysis regarding glass house excavations and the shards that they produced.  I haven't seen too many I could relate to my collected bottles.  I am not complaining though.  RED Matthews


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## div2roty (Feb 10, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*

Does all this mean that the one sold in American Bottle Auctions, as linked earlier, is also new?


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## surfaceone (Feb 10, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*

Hey Matt,

 Thanks for bringing this thread back. It sure did some neat meandering, and everyone brought their "A" Game. Is this the citation http://www.americanbottle.com/pic48/123.jpg  to which you refer?

 I think Jeff/kungfufighter can best address that. But I believe the answer is "no."


 And now for something completely different... While looking around at old glass during the earlier discussion, I found this _tiny vial_ and was wondering about it. I don't see evidence of half posting, but I'm still trying to learn the finer points of the process. Might this little guy be of Spanish manufacture? A Spanish Half Nelson, to make up a term?


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## div2roty (Feb 11, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*

yes, thats the one I was referring


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## saratogadriver (Mar 27, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*

I received an email this morning, from American Bottle Auctions, citing a Digger Odell article about what I am pretty sure is the exact bottle from the OP.   Digger apparently gave a fairly high appraisal of the bottle, but has now seen multiple similar bottles out and about, none with base wear and all with a suspiciously "new" feel.    He even says he confered with Jim Hagenbush and they both have agreed that these are repros, rather good repros, but repros just the same.  ABA sent it out as a "Bottle Alert!".

 Here's the link to Digger's article:

 http://www.bottlebooks.com/germanhalfpost/german_half_post.htm

 Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but this was definitely new information.

 Jim G


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## kungfufighter (Mar 27, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*

https://www.antique-bottles.net/forum/m-299100/mpage-1/key-/tm.htm#299143

 More discussion here Jim.


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## CALDIGR2 (Mar 27, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*

I received an email warning that these bottles are reproductions. No credible base wear, too shiny and new looking. Stay clear of this junk!!!

 Mike


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## div2roty (Mar 27, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*

Probably would have been helpful if Jeff from American Bottle Auctions had read that article before selling it through his auction.


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## CALDIGR2 (Mar 27, 2010)

*RE: German Half post bottle?   Need Update*



> ORIGINAL:  div2roty
> 
> Probably would have been helpful if Jeff from American Bottle Auctions had read that article before selling it through his auction.


 At that point in time, I don't believe that the problem with these bottles had been discovered.


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