# Help with unknown Log Cabin bottle, variant?



## BrotherBo (May 30, 2019)

Hello, new to the forum with somewhat of a mystery bottle that I found recently in an obscure antique shop in Asheville, NC. I've searched rather exhaustively and cannot find another example so I'm hoping the knowledgeable folks on here will have an answer. The bottle is colorless and stands 10 1/2 inches tall. Bubbles throughout. 
Any ideas?


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## sandchip (May 31, 2019)

I'm no help whatsoever, but it would sure look good in a run of different cabin molds.  Looks 1890ish to me.  Never seen one like it in my 45 years of collecting.  Maybe someone more knowledgeable will be able to help out.


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## BrotherBo (May 31, 2019)

Thanks for your reply, Sandchip. We usually collect and display a lot of cut glass and flint glass such as the early 3 ring decanters and this bottle really appealed to me because it has that look and feel of early flint glass. I was surprised when I found it but it was just pure dumb luck on my part by being in the right place at the right time as it had literally just been brought in. The woman at the front desk told me that the seller took a booth in that shop so she could start selling off some of her late father's antique collection and that he had been an avid bottle collector for years, but the daughter really didn't know anything about bottles or even how to price them. I'm definitely going to keep a watch on that booth!


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## BrotherBo (May 31, 2019)

The closest log bottle to this one that I can find anywhere is the "American Life Bitters" bottle. The American Life bottle features a top window(however embossed) above a cathedral-esque door. The bottle I have features basically the same arrangement. Could this bottle possibly be an obscure variant of Peter Iler's American Life Bitters?


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## sandchip (Jun 1, 2019)

Anything's possible, but I have to doubt it.  Judging from the rarity of the American Life, I tend to think that Iler probably didn't stay in business long, and his bottle being earlier with an applied top, I doubt that he would've been in business long enough to have changed his bottle design in later years to one blown in a full-height mold with a tooled top, if my reasoning makes any sense.  Whoever made your bottle, if indeed it was used to bottle a proprietor's product like bitters, whiskey, etc., then I would also suspect that he, too was unsuccessful.  It's fascinating to consider that the ones that were such huge successes for so many years like Hostetter, Davis, Townsend, Emerson (Bromo-Seltzer), etc. left behind so many bottles that theirs are relatively common and hence, less valuable.  The poor entrepreneurs who failed left behind bottles that bring huge money nowadays.  If only they could've cashed in back then, what their bottles bring today, they would've been rich men.  Oh, the irony of life at times!  With that said, one thing that would suppress the value of your bottle, even if it's the only example known, is the lack of embossing.  The other is its age which appears to be late 1800s.  An applied top and maybe even a pontil scar would undoubtably drive the desirability/value higher.  With all my blathering on, it's still a beautiful bottle that would look fantastic in a run of different cabin molds.


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## BrotherBo (Jun 1, 2019)

Thanks Sandchip, I knew it was a shot in the dark but it's just so hard to find any comparables anywhere. I was hoping someone would recognize it and say "Oh that's a ________ bottle made by _____" lol but I guess it may actually be one of a kind and never seen before, which is actually pretty exciting in of itself. It would be nice if I could find an early advertisement with an example of this bottle on it but I've not had any luck so far. The only other comparable I can find is a variation of a Drake's Plantation bottle with a similar top. I'll post a pic of it. I've read that the Drake's bottles were being made up until about 1890. Not saying it's a variation of a Drake's by any means, just has a similar top to a one of a kind(as far as I know) Drake variant.


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## BrotherBo (Jun 1, 2019)

This round indentation is located on the back of the bottle toward the bottom. Any ideas why this is there?


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## sandchip (Jun 1, 2019)

My first thought was "bung hole".  You see it on some barrel figurals to represent where the spigot would be inserted, but I've never seen one on a cabin.  Probably not what it is, just what popped into my mind.


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## Huntindog (Jun 5, 2019)

Is the indent thin?
This could have been made as a lamp base and never converted to a lamp.
Just a thought and direction to look.


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## NC btl-dvr (Jun 5, 2019)

Something screams "new" to me but that's just first impression.


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## BrotherBo (Jun 5, 2019)

The indentation isn't thin; it's pretty much the same thickness as the rest of it. 
I took this bottle to a seasoned bottle collector on Monday so he could have a look at it and give me his opinion on it. He was actually pretty fascinated with it and says that he's never seen another example like it in his 30+ years of bottle collecting and that includes never remembering seeing another one like it at any of the shows that he's attended. It was his opinion that this bottle dates to somewhere in the latter half of the 19th century(1880's-90's) and most likely held bitters or possibly whiskey. He thinks it may very well be an attempt at an experimental re-do of a tired design that was starting to wane in popularity(log cabin figural) but was abandoned and never put into production. We sat it along side several of his log cabin bitters bottles and it looked right at home and the size was very comparable. He cautioned that we may never know the actual maker or true origin of the bottle without another example turning up in the form of one with the label still on it or possibly seeing it in an old advertisement(which in itself was a true long shot that would probably never happen). He said the value of the bottle really could only be determined by what someone is willing to pay for it. He said that even though it could be "one of a kind", since it's clear and a later 1800's bottle with no way to pin down the maker then it all depends on what someone is willing to pay for the bragging rights of having a mystery log cabin figural bottle that nobody else has sitting in their collection. 

Regardless of who made this bottle or what it originally held, for me this find has really sparked my interest in bottle collecting. I've had a few decent old bottles in the past but I never really knew a lot about them or had the time to devote to collecting them(actually I'm wishing now that I hadn't sold some of the one's I used to have). I really look forward to finding and collecting some great old bottles in the future and hopefully building a decent personal collection for myself.


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## saratogadriver (Jun 6, 2019)

NC btl-dvr said:


> Something screams "new" to me but that's just first impression.




It feels very Pier One to me, but I can't find anything exactly like it, and it does appear to be an applied lip, not ABM.   The fancy round window and somewhat gothic door motif on what's supposed to be a log cabin bottle just don't feel right to me...  a little TOO precious.   Can you tell what size it is?   I.E. does it hold a straight on fifth or is it a metric container?  If it really holds just a fifth that would seem to me to make it more credible as old.  if it's metric I lean more towards Pier One.   

Jim G


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## Harry Pristis (Jun 6, 2019)

saratogadriver said:


> It feels very Pier One to me, but I can't find anything exactly like it, and it does appear to be an applied lip, not ABM.   The fancy round window and somewhat gothic door motif on what's supposed to be a log cabin bottle just don't feel right to me...  a little TOO precious.   Can you tell what size it is?   I.E. does it hold a straight on fifth or is it a metric container?  If it really holds just a fifth that would seem to me to make it more credible as old.  if it's metric I lean more towards Pier One.
> 
> Jim G




*I am with the skeptics on this one.  "Too precious" is a good observation.  I would point out that the bottle appears to have a tooled lip, not an applied lip.  A relatively early fantasy bottle, perhaps.*


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## BrotherBo (Jun 6, 2019)

Lots of differing opinions here: 



sandchip said:


> Looks 1890ish to me.  Never seen one like it in my 45 years of collecting..





sandchip said:


> With that said, one thing that would suppress the value of your bottle, even if it's the only example known, is the lack of embossing.  The other is its age which appears to be late 1800s.





NC btl-dvr said:


> Something screams "new" to me but that's just first impression.





saratogadriver said:


> It feels very Pier One to me, but I can't find anything exactly like it, and  it does appear to be an applied lip, not ABM.






Harry Pristis said:


> *I am with the skeptics on this one.  "Too precious" is a good observation. ...** I would point out that the bottle appears to have a tooled lip, not an applied lip.*



Well I guess I'm more confused now than ever. I now have two veteran bottle collectors(one after actually seeing it in person) telling me they've never seen one in the entire decades they've collected and that it appears to be late 1800's to them, and then I have others saying they think it might be brand new from somewhere like Pier One. I have some saying it has an applied lip and then others saying it's a tooled lip. That's a big disparity between opinions. 

My opinion(for what it's worth) from being around and collecting antique decanters for years is that it's flint glass. There are inclusions(one black one can be seen in the pics, near the lip in the top) and it just has that heavy old feel and color of flint glass. I've personally handled a lot of early decanters and from handling this bottle I would strongly disagree that it's anywhere near modern. 

 I really appreciate all of the help and opinions(please, keep them coming!) but in the end, how does one go about finding out how old their bottle actually is? 

Not sure what else to do here but post a few more close up pics.


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## Harry Pristis (Jun 6, 2019)

*Well, brother, what CAN we agree on?  I think we can agree that the bottle mold was cut by a skilled craftsman.  No one has argued that the bottle was blown in China or India for the dollar-store trade.  

You can put your fingertip inside the lip to find a seam between the separate glass surfaces if it is an applied lip; there will be no seam with a tooled lip.  

Clarity, inclusions, and your own limited experience [...*this find has really sparked my interest in bottle collecting. I've had a few decent old bottles in the past but I never really knew a lot about them or had the time to devote to collecting them*] are secondary considerations.

It seems to me that the strongest evidence is the accumulated knowledge of collectors, both memory and printed.  Antique bottles have been seriously collected and studied for fifty years MOL.  If it were my bottle, I would be searching the literature and I would be showing the bottle at bottle shows.  Somewhere you'll find some reliable information. *​


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## CanadianBottles (Jun 6, 2019)

I'm guessing that this one is modern as well, and that the indentation on the back is indeed meant to be drilled for a lamp cord.  I couldn't find another example of something like this online but the manufacture techniques look somewhat similar to the Old Home Bitters bottles which were manufactured in the 70s purely to be used as lamps https://www.icollector.com/item.aspx?i=9774233  The tooling looks very similar to 1890s bottles but a few details, especially the base, don't look quite right for American glass of that era.  Regardless of what it is it's certainly a very unusual piece.


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## BrotherBo (Jun 7, 2019)

Harry Pristis said:


> *
> You can put your fingertip inside the lip to find a seam between the separate glass surfaces if it is an applied lip; there will be no seam with a tooled lip.
> *



Harry, thank you for your help on this. I can feel no seam so apparently it is a tooled lip.


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## saratogadriver (Jun 7, 2019)

One thing we can agree on is that you've stumped us all in that none of us can ever remember seeing one before.   The indentation looking like a place in the mold for a lamp cord is a sage observation, but a search of log cabin bottle lamp sure doesn't turn one up on the interweb.   The close up of the lip clearly shows that it is blown in a mold and either tooled or applied lip, so it's certainly not machine made.   Of course, that doesn't mean it's old in and of itself.  There were some great (from a bottle collector perspective bad) reproductions of civil war era bottles recently made and sold by a company who is now gone out of business.   The USA bottles were the subject of much discussion on here as they were very close reproductions, yet made by some company in China.   They were being sold to Civil War reenactors but made there way onto the collectable market.   

Very interesting bottle you've brought to the table. 

Jim G


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## BrotherBo (Jun 7, 2019)

CanadianBottles said:


> I'm guessing that this one is modern as well, and that the indentation on the back is indeed meant to be drilled for a lamp cord.  I couldn't find another example of something like this online but the manufacture techniques look somewhat similar to the Old Home Bitters bottles which were manufactured in the 70s purely to be used as lamps https://www.icollector.com/item.aspx?i=9774233  The tooling looks very similar to 1890s bottles but a few details, especially the base, don't look quite right for American glass of that era.  Regardless of what it is it's certainly a very unusual piece.



Thanks for the link! I checked out the Old Home Bitters bottles and you're right, there are some similarities. Someone put a lot of effort into producing a convincingly old-looking bottle for the sole purpose of serving as a lamp base. The indentation in my bottle could actually be there for the purpose of drilling for a cord, but there's still some things that just don't add up. One would think that if this bottle was actually modern and produced in a certain quantity then there'd be other examples at least somewhere, such as we see with the Old Home Bitters bottles. One thing that stands out to me is that this is actually glass with lead content; it does have a greyish appearance in certain lighting and it also has that slight rainbow effect when it's in the sunlight. Surely someone who wanted to produce an old-looking bottle for the sole purpose of marketing it as a lamp base wouldn't go that route. There's also some sickness in the bottom along with a very old dried substance(which could be residue from whatever liquid was originally contained in the bottle). Upon close inspection, there is quite a bit of shelf wear to the bottom as well which could indicate some age. 

I'm definitely open to the possibility that this is actually a modern fantasy bottle produced for the sole purpose of a novelty lamp base. I just want to make sure that's actually what it is before we definitively shelve it over in that category.


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## BrotherBo (Jun 7, 2019)

saratogadriver said:


> One thing we can agree on is that you've stumped us all in that none of us can ever remember seeing one before.   The indentation looking like a place in the mold for a lamp cord is a sage observation, but a search of log cabin bottle lamp sure doesn't turn one up on the interweb.   The close up of the lip clearly shows that it is blown in a mold and either tooled or applied lip, so it's certainly not machine made.   Of course, that doesn't mean it's old in and of itself.  There were some great (from a bottle collector perspective bad) reproductions of civil war era bottles recently made and sold by a company who is now gone out of business.   The USA bottles were the subject of much discussion on here as they were very close reproductions, yet made by some company in China.   They were being sold to Civil War reenactors but made there way onto the collectable market.
> 
> Very interesting bottle you've brought to the table.
> 
> Jim G



Thanks Jim. I'll have to go check out that discussion on those USA bottles. In the age we live in now, reproductions are getting so good that we have to be skeptical on just about anything popping up that appears to be very rare or one of a kind. I'm just not experienced enough in the antique bottle arena to personally say for sure what I have or don't have. I appreciate all the help that's been offered here in the effort to get to the bottom of this one. I think we definitely have a mystery on our hands!


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