# Rehashing an old subject.Supercharge the forum



## Steve/sewell (Aug 1, 2010)

Does anyone else feel the forum could use a face lift and some specific categories added to make searching for older posts for information easier and a lot more streamlined.The most collected quite valuable,widely diverse and representing virtually the entire United States in manufacture Bitters bottles do not have a specific category.The second most collected and probably the most historic and valuable (Historic Flasks and bottles) don't have their own category.   
 All of the great medicine bottles should have a category making them searchable and listing them in some sort of archive for easy use.Black glass the oldest 
 form in our country could stand to have it's own category.

 I know the forum has a category called bottles to post all of these in and for the most part it works well.When it doesn't work well is when trying to find information you may have read months ago now buried in layers of added posts.I am aware the forum has a search feature which works ok when trying to find old information.As for the added cost maybe Roger could add a membership fee of $20.00 a year which would give members full access to post in every category in the forum.I know twenty dollars might be hard for some members to afford but most of us would spend that on a bottle on eBay in a heartbeat.This would make it a lot easier for Roger to run the website.Think how nice the forum could be with archived bottle pictures like Gunthers site with his bottle nexus.Paying to be a member will also cut down on users who have malicious ideas to harm or ridicule forum members by requiring them to pay to be a member.Non paying users could gain full access to every category but would not be able to post in all of them but maybe just a category called what is this bottle.

 This place has some great people, very knowledgeable,very kind and most will help just about anyone with a glass related question.Remember how well Lobeys Secret Santa went last year.The participating members should be doubled this year.Does anyone else agree,disagree has a different take please take the time to respond.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 1, 2010)

Honestly I think things work pretty good around here and allow everyone to participate without expecting them to fork over money for the privilege. If we made a section for every possible bottle out there this would be one very long and difficult to navigate site. Because everyone with their particular collecting interest will want their own particular section. Paying would also keep out anyone with a question, thus we would be down to everyone congratulating each other about the finds that they found all the time and it would get pretty boring. New blood isn't going to join the site when they see the price for participation. I seriously doubt I would have ever joined if we had to pay, and I doubt very few others would either. Sooner or later you would be down to you and Lobey, and boy that would be boring. Just kiddin'.

 Maybe another solution is to take sponsorships, or advertising to offset the cost, or better yet have the threads mentioned by you and charge the people interested in those particular threads $20 and see how far you get. The search feature is kinda annoying; however, with some patience you can find what you are looking for. Maybe another solution is that people stop posting a new thread every time they find something and have one long thread that they update much as I have been doing. That would cut down on the number of different threads, and maybe some of the information wouldn't get buried as deep as it does. I have found that this solution works very well when you are looking for a photo of a bottle you posted some months back which has some bearing on a present thread, no searching, just look through the older posts of the same thread.

 Honestly one thing that is cost prohibitive for a site like this isn't the amount of threads, but bandwidth, and posting pictures in every post not related to the subject at hand eats up a lot of that and there has been a lot of that going on lately. Just saying.


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## JOETHECROW (Aug 2, 2010)

Another simple and easy task is to  use google, with antique-bottles.net,then your search topic.....works very well.Seems to recognize things the forums search does not. I love it here,...it's woven into the tapestry of my daily life,..even more so since I find myself at home more, since I'm job hunting....I'd hate to have to choose between grocerys or coming here.[]


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 2, 2010)

Do you really think twenty dollars is a lot to ask? Most members are paying that for monthly DSL Internet speeds already and double that for 8 meg cable.I bet you as I typed this at least one member has purchased a bottle and 30 or more members have purchased bottles in excess of twenty dollars in the last week.How about free for a year then you pay twenty bucks.I think it would go a long way into brighting the place up.I also feel people who could contribute more would if the site were a little more specific in nature.I agree with all of you it works fine as it is but I feel it could be a whole lot better and more organized.Morbious how many bottle categories could there possibly be? Historical flasks,Bitters,medicines,whiskey and liquors,Beer,soda,poisons,food bottles,jars,poisons,mineral waters,inks,black glass,fire grenades,bar ware,vases,pitchers,stem ware,marbles, pot lids,glass, Whimseys,utilities,colognes,blown three mold and reproductions.Thats 25 categories doesn't seem like a lot to me and most experienced collectors know what they have and would post them in the correct categories. The novice first time collectors would post just like they currently do in the before or after 1900 category.I am sure you could add a few more but not many as most bottles would fit into these categorys.You could keep the other existing categories with the exception of (before 1900 or after 1900).Just make a new category titled what is this.Most of the piranah Wikipedia's here would still answer the question being asked. 
 I know this place is woven into the fabric of our some of our lives I just feel it could be a lot greater and maybe then the serious collectors would view this site as more of a knowledge base then in turn they would share their knowledge and expertise Rich (Lobeycat).I like the idea of sponsors Morbious,Glassworks,American bottles,eBay,all of these sites would benefit from advertisements on this site.and then attract the serious collectors to this site a win win for all concerned.Joe, You could keep a portion of the forum free to allow novices to get their feet wet and for members going through tough economic times,Twenty a household seems fair.Just as you said Lobey most get the bug and then clutter up their homes with glass,using that same rational there are hundreds of people with fantastic collection's already who might share there knowledge and show their bottles to all of us making us wiser and more informed then we currently are.This would only promote the hobby further dont you think.Free is not always best.


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## glass man (Aug 2, 2010)

BROTHER STEVE:IS 20 DOLLARS TOO MUCH TO ASK" IS ALL REALATIVE...WELL IT IS FOR US...WISH IT WASN'T,BUT I THINK SADLY 20 BUCKS WILL BECOME HARDER AND HARDER TO COME BY FOR MANY.I AM HAVING TO SELL MY COLLECTION AS MONEY IS NEEDED...WHEN MY COLLECTION IS GONE[WELL I WILL ALWAYS HAVE SOME BOTTLES,CHEAP ,BUT THAT IS COOL!] I CAN AT LEAST COME ON HERE A SEE OTHER'S BOTTLES...HEY THAT IS GREAT TO ME...AND GET TO TALK ABOUT THEM! AS FOR "SERIOUS COLLECTORS" I AM PRETTY SURE MOST ALL HERE ARE SERIOUS ABOUT OUR COLLECTING! IF YOU MEAN LIKE "BIG NAME"OR "BIG SHOT" COLLECTORS OR SOMETHING ,HEY I SEE SOME OF THESE PEOPLE AT BOTTLE SHOWS AND MOST WILL BUY AND HAVE BOUGHT FROM ME IF I CUT MY PRICE IN HALF ! TRY TO GET THEM DOWN THOUGH! WELL I AIN'T TRYING TO START NO BOTTLE CULTURE WARS ON HERE...I'M JUST SAYING..I KNOW SOME OF THE "SERIOUS COLLECTORS" AND THEY HAVE "SERIOUS COLLECTIONS AND SERIOUS MONEY" I HAVE KNOWN MANY OF THEM FOR YEARS! NOT BAD PEOPLE! JUST.... GOOD LUCK ON GETTING SOME OF THEM TO GIVE 20 BUCKS! [] JAMIE


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## RedGinger (Aug 2, 2010)

Just particpating in a 10.00 auction was hard enough for me.  Don't get me wrong, I love the book I got, Marjorie was very helpful with the process and I wa glad to be able to help the forum.  For some of us $20.00 is a lot.  How about doubling that amount to $40.00 for two people in a household who are members.  Unless Roger has a problem, I don't see why it should be changed.


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## peejrey (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm not saying 20$ is a lot but lobeycat is right after a while people will stop coming here. Looking at all the different categories on this wonderful site offers, i don't know if another category is needed. If we start charging people won't come here they'll go to Antiquebottles.com. It was the first site I used when i started, until I came here, I love it here. And like times are now i couldn't pay anything. Of my opinion i think the site is great as-is.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 2, 2010)

> people won't come here they'll go to Antiquebottles.com


 
 ??? That's Reggies site, he doesnt have a forum does he??


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## RED Matthews (Aug 2, 2010)

Well this has been an interesting read.  I think I liked the response of JOETHECROW the best.  I come here just about everyday to look for someones questions that I can resolve for them.  To explain some of the early glass making practices that I have learned about by spending a lot of time reading and studying the marks left on glass by the making process.

 I get rewarded by the things I read here, that fill in the information I haven't or can't read in old books.  Primarily because the bottle maker that ran his shop, didn't tell anyone how his forming was accomplished, unless they were part of his shop crew.  It was an early form of JOB SECURITY!

 So my response is just one of a happy cat purring by an open fire.  RED Matthews


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## morbious_fod (Aug 2, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> I agree with all of you it works fine as it is but I feel it could be a whole lot better and more organized.Morbious how many bottle categories could there possibly be? Historical flasks,Bitters,medicines,whiskey and liquors,Beer,soda,poisons,food bottles,jars,poisons,mineral waters,inks,black glass,fire grenades,bar ware,vases,pitchers,stem ware,marbles, pot lids,glass, Whimseys,utilities,colognes,blown three mold and reproductions.Thats 25 categories doesn't seem like a lot to me and most experienced collectors know what they have and would post them in the correct categories.


 
 25 categories would make for a very long main page on this site, and a lot of scrolling just to find the particular thread we happen to be interested in. It doesn't seem like a lot until you are having to deal with it every day, then you have to have moderators for each, because even if they are paying there will still be the flamers, trolls, and jerk wads who will continue to stir up trouble.



> Free is not always best.


 
 Actually Free is best when it comes to trying to preserve the bottle collecting hobby. A good chunk of collectors are getting much older now, and the new generation knows nothing of glass containers in their daily lives, thus the nostalgia doesn't exist. The hobby is slowly dying off, except for a few younger individuals who are just naturally inclined to collecting, and are awed by old glass, or in the greater cases old soda bottles which are the closest to their daily lives. This was the reasoning behind the decisions I made concerning my own site. I could have just worked on a book for ten years, and published about ten copies, only to have it disappear into obscurity. I decided that my site needed to be free to the public, because through it maybe someone will discover the hobby for themselves. That is what keeping this site free means, inspiring the "Have I stumbled upon a gold mine" novices to see what is out there and to be able to ask questions and communicate with the members on all of these sections in order to learn more about the hobby. Rather than basically telling them that in order to communicate with us one on one they have to pay twenty bucks, or post a question about their bottles in one specific section, and then read our posts that we handed down from upon high. The ultimate new members should be seen and not heard unless they are willing to fork over the cash.


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 2, 2010)

This is a glass website when you arrive at it and the page loads you feel you are in the deep end of a built-in pool.There is too much aqua blue and not one picture of a bottle to be found..Morb there are 25 categorys existing now in which I have already included some of them.Forget the membership fee look at the following web sites.  http://www.Oldsouthjerseyglass.com and forum member Mike George's website http://www.bottleshow.com The sites are warm and friendly looking and eye appealing.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 2, 2010)

> The hobby is slowly dying off


 
 I would have to argue that isnt true judging from the range of ages I see at bottle shows. 
 I think the biggest draw for young collectors is to be able to go out and dig or find a bottle that is worth money. Its the basic "treasure hunting" thrill. 
 When there are no more priveys , dumps , or other places to come up with bottles then I would expect the hobby to decline but that doesnt seem likely in the near future.
 The influx of fresh collectibles is what fuels a collecting hobby. Part of that is old collectors dying off and big collections being broken up so new collector get to own those items.


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 2, 2010)

As for moderators Morb there are a grand total of seven right now in twenty five categorys.It looks like a lot of the categories are fine without moderators.  
 Again I am not trying to stir up trouble here and I would never consider myself to high to answer a question and as I stated the new comers would always be able to get their questions answered.For the guy who accidently found,or inherited or what ever method he used to acquire a piece of glass would still be able to get his question answered and would probably get his question answered and that would be the last time you heard from him.The membership fee would allow the building of a much more professional Website for the members here to archive their contributions into categories pertaining to what they do best.Is 10 dollars too much we have all literally lost 10 dollars in our lives and I don't mean mis-spent I mean fell out of our pockets and someone else ended up with it.As for the notion I probably would have never signed up if there was a fee is nonsense.You would have signed up as a free user just like we currently do and did and asked is my green colored bottle that looks like a cathedral and has a very rough mark on the bottom that looks like it's broken(I hope it doesn't detract from the value) worth keeping.Now if you have the bug as Lobey stated your infected now.Others members were already collectors and wanted to find bottle commraderie.What if the membership fee was (10 dollars is that still too much).It would go more towards keeping the site software and content up to date not locking out new members.Something to think about Morb a well presented site which has eye appeal and great content will sell itself.No need to solicit new members they will come on their own.The membership fee would be there only to improve the functionality of the site and to help defray bandwidth costs. Rich you have shown great talent in picture restoration tell us about it show us how to do it be the moderator.Where could you find a person more knowledgeable then Guntherhess (Matt) on medicines,Mike George and Jeff Noordsy on old New England Glass,Red Matthews the walking glass manufacture encylopedia.I never wanted to put this to vote as Rich wants that was never my intention.It has spawned  some nice debate which has occurred The simpleness of the forum portion could remain as it is.The archiving and easy retrieval of information and pictures could be another realm altogether.Maybe that would be the paying membership side of this web site.

 What if Roger stated there was now going to be a membership fee because the donations were just not cutting it are you telling me you would all cease to be members over ten or twenty dollars.I find that hard to beleive.I think the opposite would be true and there would be a ground swell of support and the regulars would would be encouraging all of their friends to stay as members.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 2, 2010)

> Where's Mr. Bottles? He knows how to get a site up and running.


 
 dang you are in a mood Lobey, did someone run over your cat[]


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## OsiaBoyce (Aug 2, 2010)

An example:

 Several years ago Auction Zip changed so that to to look for auctions you had to pay , while the auctioner listed for free.....................that didn't last long.


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## woody (Aug 2, 2010)

if it's not broken don't fix it...


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## Poison_Us (Aug 2, 2010)

2nd that.  The search could be better if the forum software was upgraded...(if there is an upgrade)..but that's the only thing I would change.  And if it costs $49 for the upgrade...that would be $1 from each of the regulars if asked for. (I never priced the stuff so it's just a shot in the dark number)


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## GuntherHess (Aug 2, 2010)

I think with www.aspplayground.net you get what you get.


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## bubbas dad (Aug 2, 2010)

i've got to agree with woody 100%. i've been a member here for alittle over 5 years now and for the most part things go smoothy and most people get along. it might not have a lot of flashy stuff other sites have but want it does have is alot of very good information on just about any type bottle.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 2, 2010)

I was playing around a bit and added a google search of the Antique-Bottles.Net site on one of my web pages. It works much better than the forum search feature in my opinon.

 http://www.antiquemedicines.com/bottlelinks.htm


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## glass man (Aug 2, 2010)

SEEMS LIKE SOME OF THE WORST FIGHTS WE HAVE HAD IS OVER "HOW THIS PLACE NEEDS CHANGING"..MAYBE THE "SERIOUS BOTTLE COLLECTORS" CAN START THEY OWN FORUM..."FOR SERIOUS BOTTLE COLLECTORS ONLY" $500 TO GET IN. THAT WOULD KEEP THE BROMO LOVERS OUT![8D]

 I DO NEED TO PUT SOMETHING UP FOR AUTION ON HERE TO HELP WHILE I GOT SOMETHING...WILL HAVE TO WORK OUT POSTAGE MONEY IS ALL.NEED TO FIGURE OUT WHAT WOULD GET THE MOST MONEY... LORD LOVES US ALL AND THAT IS GROOVY IF NOTHING ELSE!

 THINKING BOUT A MINT "BLANKENHEYM & NOLET" CASE GIN,BUT AIN'T THAT MANY INTO CASE GINS I DON'T THINK.

 I WILL COME UP WITH SOMEN.  I REGRET I HAVE ONLY ONE BOTTLE TO GIVE TO THE FORUM! FEELING THAT PATRIOTIC BOTTLE FEELING COMING OVER ME!

  MY MINT 3 3/4 DR.HARTERS WILD CHERRY BITTERS ST LOUIS WOULD BE GOOD CAUSE WOULD NOT TAKE MUCH IN POSTAGE. JAMIE


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## Poison_Us (Aug 2, 2010)

upgrade price isn't too bad...


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## Poison_Us (Aug 2, 2010)

Gunth, that's a good idea...may do the same.
 Have come to love this place the way it is and see no need to change, really.
 If it changed, then the wife would keep asking where I was.  She can tell this place from across the room. []


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 2, 2010)

GLASSMAN did I say the place was a disaster? NO. Did I say make it a country club atmosphere? NO Am I talking a lot of money ?NO 
 Did I come across as an elitist,I wasn't trying to but I must seem to project that image.I was only pointing out some short comings the forum has in my opinion. By the reactions I have seen here you would have thought I asked everyone to donate a kidney.Its apparent 10 dollars would be too much. 
 FORGET I BROUGHT THIS UP this place is great it doesn't need any changes.


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## woody (Aug 2, 2010)

[]We appreciate you wanting to make the forum a better place, Steve.
 The idea of having to pay to use the forum would, I believe, discourage alot of people from signing up to use it.
 But if it's free, then, most people will at least check it out and some might even take their shoes off and stay awhile.[]


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 2, 2010)

Do you think they own shoes?


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## PrivyCheese (Aug 2, 2010)

I guess I will put in my two cents worth.....How many new members do we get around here now? How many do you think we will get when there is a fee?  How many will we lose? Its really simple math. Me....I like the swimming pool look. You know when that aqua screen pops up its like an old freind......

   I say dont touch a thing.


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## pyshodoodle (Aug 2, 2010)

And what's to stop people from changing their names once a year, just to get another free membership? I say leave well enough alone.

 I agree with others here, as far as the search function... use google... you can usually find what you're looking for here with google if this search engine doesn't work.


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## cyberdigger (Aug 2, 2010)

I say 2 changes are in order.. first, I'm really tired of this seafoam green background.. I say we get a nice mauve or taupe for a while.. or a little texture.. hows about paisley??
 Second.. now I admit I am not privvy to the amount of anonymous donations that are being made to the upkeep of this place, but since my recent hiatus corpus, that poor little "Members Forum Auctions" doohickey is looking lonely sad and neglected.. free membership is a no brainer, and I'm no rich bloke either.. not until recently, anyhow.. but if we're gonna enjoy all this knowledge, opinion, back-patting and razor-sharp banter, somebody's got to step up and remind the group once in a while that this forum, and it's righteous father, are deserving of our occasional dribble of financial support.. !!

 ...A "Long Branch Blobs" forum would be nice, too.. always wanted to be a castaway...


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## Oldtimer (Aug 2, 2010)

A change to Invision forum software would be a cheap way to dramatically change the look and ease of use. As forums go, this software is old and not user friendly...
 I would point anyone who wonders what Invision is like  to a forum I help admin for snowmobiling in NH, SLEDNH.

 Look around there, and see what it's like. Embedding youtube vids, and web cam feeds is super simple. I think this version we use @ slednh is well under $1,000 a year.

 As for pay-per-view, not for it. I'll add several forums auctions soon, I have no trouble with that.


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## JOETHECROW (Aug 2, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: Steve/sewell
> 
> Do you think they own shoes?


 

 I have a pair I put on when I need to go into town.[] That railroad gravel is tough on the feet.....LoL, I spend alot of time trying to find free or inexpensive, but fulfilling activities for Lauren and I to do together. I know sweating it till the next grocery trip. I'm not cryin' poor, but that just happens to be my reality right now, I'd sure hate to lose my option of coming here, but I was under the impression that we were in the midst of an economic crisis right now, and since I'm accustomed to making do with things the way they are, I would have to be against a suggestion of any kind of fee. If I could swing a few bucks for Roger,....I'd have a neat little "supporter" icon by my user name, He certainly deserves it and god knows I'm on here enough.[] JMHO,.....J.B.


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## cyberdigger (Aug 2, 2010)

Did any of you ever get ice-cream from a Haagen Dazs ?? I thought that was the sheet where it comes to ice~cream... hard to find a franchise these days, tho


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 2, 2010)

I wasnt trying to stop people from using the forum the way they have been,my honest intention was to make this web site shine.[]
 I wish I could help you Joe or any member right now struggling financially because I know you and your wife and a lot of the members are good people.
 The member fee was only for the upkeep and software enhancement.This is a good place and the last thing I wanted to do was rock the forum boat.Forget the fee sorry I ever brought it up.You know in reality there could come the day this forum would end because of a lack of funds to run it.Or the company hosting the site going through tough times could not stay in business.Hey I fired some people up maybe the contributions will come from this.You and Lauren keep keepin on things will turn around soon keep the faith.Jamie keep the class warfare jokes to a minumum OK PLEASE if you dont I'll slam the Beatles some more[]


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## cyberdigger (Aug 2, 2010)




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## JOETHECROW (Aug 3, 2010)

Steve, no offense was taken nor assumed implied...... It's all good, and I understand your point....Thanks for the kind words...As far as Ice cream,  huh?,....I'll have to watch it now when Laur suggests we go out for a ride to the eye doctor,...."Hey Joe,...isn't that an aqua medicine bottle up ahead?....can you just hop out and go check darling?"[] (Personally I prefer Ben and Jerrys Chocolate Peanut butter cup") Good stuff!


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## morbious_fod (Aug 3, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 
> This is a glass website when you arrive at it and the page loads you feel you are in the deep end of a built-in pool.There is too much aqua blue and not one picture of a bottle to be found..Morb there are 25 categorys existing now in which I have already included some of them.Forget the membership fee look at the following web sites.  http://www.Oldsouthjerseyglass.com and forum member Mike George's website http://www.bottleshow.com The sites are warm and friendly looking and eye appealing.


 
 Could the forums do with a face lift? Certainly, I would be the first to agree. Now as for the comparisons of a forum to two actual websites, would be like comparing a farm truck to a sports car, they are two completely different types of web presences. A forum is a place where people come to discuss a chosen subject and every one I have been on are very utilitarian looking, with some color variations, and maybe some decoration in the background. A dedicated website to a subject is a more artful form, where the content is strictly controlled by the creator of the site and very little effect is meted out to the visitor. As I said the site could use some freshing up but no amount of revamping is going to turn a forum into a dedicated website.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 3, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 
> I wasnt trying to stop people from using the forum the way they have been,my honest intention was to make this web site shine.[]


 
 We understand what your intentions were good, but at some point you have to realize that people don't like change, especially when that change involves money. A good example, the State of Franklin Bottle club in Johnson City, Tn. used to post their newsletters online for non-members to read. A few months ago they decided that they needed to stop, because people were just coming to their site to read the newsletters, but not paying to join their club. So they decided to stop offering the newsletter and thinking that somehow people would pay the membership fee to read their rather sparse newsletter. I was one of those people who even though I wanted to join the club, their meeting times just aren't accessible for me with my work schedule. I also know of another who used to read it as well, and he decided to do without instead of paying as well. I am sure that hits on their website have dropped significantly since their decision.

 A $10 charge is $10 that we don't have for that bottle we want. Maybe what is needed is a sister site where you can have an actual website where you can post pictures and have a pretty web designed page.


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## sandchip (Aug 3, 2010)

I've mentioned this site before, www.artifactsguide.com/forum/index.php 
 because many bottle collectors also love arrowheads, and I hope you'll check it out.  You have to register, but not pay, to visit and enjoy.  This site underwent a makeover a couple of years ago and nobody fussed about contributing 25 bucks a year to help out.  And guess what?  You don't or can't help out?  You still get to enjoy the site, post pictures, ask (and have answered) questions.  Poor folks are just as welcome as anybody else.  There is a Supporter's Section where the administrator posts pictures of exceptional artifacts usually seen at shows, but believe me, you see plenty of great stuff, even if you can't help out.  We even have a Daily Bible Verse thread for everybody to enjoy (the first thing I go to in the morning, because I'm the first to acknowledge that this wretch doesn't deserve even one of the many of God's blessings).  This addition seems to help greatly in setting and maintaining an amicable atmosphere among members, where things rarely get out of hand, yet everybody has plenty of fun.  Of course, once in awhile a trouble maker surfaces, but if he wants to  hang around, he'll clean up his act, or he's banned, period.  Cussing and  insults are not tolerated regardless of how great a collection you may have or how knowledgeable you are.  And the revamped site is flourishing, and  adding members most every day.  And check out Point Types of the Deep South.  Nearly a hundred point types for everyone to enjoy sharing and learning about what they have.  Free.  So 25 or so bottle types shouldn't be a problem.  One newcomer was/is in very bad health but loves the hobby, so Mr. Dowdy, "Hernandoman", our administrator gave him a free membership.  This summer has been rough with a heat index of 100+ every day.  This guy was living in southern Alabama with no AC on top of an already miserable medical condition, so we started taking donations and with God's help, our bunch of rednecks raised enough in short time to install a new central unit for him and his family.  Made me realize how very blessed I am to be able to dig, wade, crawl, stoop, and climb.  I'm sure that Mr. Dowdy will be more than happy to answer any questions concerning what would be involved in improving this great bottle site.  So, lighten up on brother Steve.  The dude means well, and change ain't always bad.


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 3, 2010)

Thanks Jimbo well spoken we will still need a few more members to have a simple debate.Lets see there's you and I against *10463 other registered members here at the this forum.I hear we are waiting for the returns from the fourth district to put us over the top.*
*The election is still to close to call.WAIT JUST IN news from the fourth distric two more voters have said yes  brining our total to *
*four members a little shy of the neccesary votes needed to beak a fillabuster proof majority.I guess the candidates didnt run on a platform backed by the majority of the members.All kidding aside your site looks real good from here.*


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## beendiggin (Aug 3, 2010)

I agree that change is sometimes for the better, and you can't please everyone when that time comes.  Does the forum _need_ a change?  Not necessarily.   It is working...but could it be more attractive or searchworthy?  Sure, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder.   I like it the way it is,  because I'm used to it.  There's something nostalgic about it.  If it changed, however, I would gladly change with it.  A small fee from members each year wouldn't be much to ask.  You don't have to call it a fee.....pretend you're a politician and call it something fancy and appetizing.  Then again,when something is free, I just accept it for what it is.  When I'm paying, I'm more than likely have a criticism of it.


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## bostaurus (Aug 3, 2010)

I am glad you brought this subject up Steve. I have absolutely no clue about how these websites work but have often wondered if the Admin was paying out of pocket for our enjoyment. I would think that this economic down turn has affected him as well. We are blessed that my husband has a job so sending a fee would not be an issue but I do understand how tight things are for many folks right now.
 It has been quite awhile since someone put something up on the auction for support of the forum.  If the fee is a big issue than maybe we should be putting up things for auction. Most of us probably have a bottle hanging around that could be donated. 
 I don't know what else could be done, but this is a subject that needed to be aired.  Thanks again Steve for being the lightening rod.


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## GuntherHess (Aug 3, 2010)

> wondered if the Admin was paying out of pocket for our enjoyment


 
 yes he is , bandwidth costs money.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 3, 2010)

Having listened to many podcasts, and been on many forums, I've noticed how a lot of them work and deal with the free factor verses pay for play. Most ask for donations, take on sponsors; however, none of them even think about asking for a fee to use their forums or listen to their podcasts. Both of which require quite a bit of bandwidth in order to exist. My point is that when you are wanting people to participate in your particular venture on the internet, you don't want to limit the amount of people who would frequent your particular web entity by expecting them to pay for the privilege. You can ask for donations, which usually works out pretty well if you have enough devoted fans, but relying on the good will of the participants alone is illogical. Sometimes you need sponsors.

 Don't think, oh he doesn't understand what the owner of the site has to pay to keep it going, and just wants everything free. I have a much better idea of how much money goes into a venture such as this than many of you, I have my own website and have to pay out of my own pocket for hosting space for said website. Add to that the amount of time I spend trying to get information for the site, the costs of research material and gas, writing the articles, taking pictures, and purchasing examples to post, and you end up with a lot of out put. Do I make any money on the site? Not one penny, not even donations. It's a labor of love, a hobby, my little contribution to the greater knowledge base of the hobby and local history. I'm sure that the owner of this forum created it for exactly the same reasons. Want to see changes to the site that take money, donate.


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## blobbottlebob (Aug 3, 2010)

> but if we're gonna enjoy all this knowledge, opinion, back-patting and razor-sharp banter, somebody's got to step up and remind the group once in a while that this forum, and it's righteous father, are deserving of our occasional dribble of financial support.. !!


 
 Here. Here!
 Chuck, you're right back in it. I will dig something up and put it to auction.


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 3, 2010)

> ORIGINAL: Steve/sewell
> 
> This is a glass website when you arrive at it and the page loads you feel you are in the deep end of a built-in pool.There is too much aqua blue and not one picture of a bottle to be found..Morb there are 25 categorys existing now in which I have already included some of them.Forget the membership fee look at the following web sites. http://www.Oldsouthjerseyglass.com and forum member Mike George's website http://www.bottleshow.com The sites are warm and friendly looking and eye appealing.


 
 [8D]...................................


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## sandchip (Aug 4, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  morbious_fod
> Don't think, oh he doesn't understand what the owner of the site has to pay to keep it going, and just wants everything free. I have a much better idea of how much money goes into a venture such as this than many of you, I have my own website and have to pay out of my own pocket for hosting space for said website. Add to that the amount of time I spend trying to get information for the site, the costs of research material and gas, writing the articles, taking pictures, and purchasing examples to post, and you end up with a lot of out put. Do I make any money on the site? Not one penny, not even donations. It's a labor of love, a hobby, my little contribution to the greater knowledge base of the hobby and local history. I'm sure that the owner of this forum created it for exactly the same reasons. Want to see changes to the site that take money, donate.


 
 I admit that I don't have a clue about what bandwidth is or what it takes to maintain a website.  But since you do, Morb, can you give a rough percentage of our 10,000+ members that it would take, at $25 annually, to upgrade this site?


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## bubbas dad (Aug 4, 2010)

keep in mind out of those 10,000+ visitors to this site there are only about 100 members who visit this site and usually there are only about 20 or so on at a given time. a large majority of the people listed as members sign on, ask a few questions and very seldom if ever return. most of the people shown as active user are visitors, as of this moment there are 20 member and 784 visitors.


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## Oldtimer (Aug 4, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  lobeycat
> 
> I like the green, leave the green! Wouldn't be the "Forum" without the goddamned green!
> We've all been on other forums (checked out that sled page) is there anything out there easier to use than this antiquated out of date system? Do we tell our old family members we're taking them out for ice cream but instead drop them off in the middle of the woods because they're old and we have to drive them to the eye doctors and everywhere else for that matter? Well I do but I'm sure the rest of you wouldn't
> ...


 A change to invision forums would not only make things easier for us, it would make things far more attractive to those who come here...It's very plausible they are used to other websites with more color and features and then they see this antique forum software and don't give it the proper due it deserves. And this forrum software IS antique in internet terms.


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 5, 2010)

Well spoken Oldtimer this was my whole point. This is a great place with some unbelievable people and knowledge. It just needs a little fine tuning. It is like having a 454 LS-6 with a blower, Edlebrock aluminum intake and headers flowing thru a fat straight pipe, a Ford 9 inch rear and you put all those great parts and atributes into..................................THIS


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## Steve/sewell (Aug 5, 2010)

Instead of this.........................................................


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## cyberdigger (Aug 7, 2010)

I have seen a feature on another website which shall remain anonymous but it basically shows the monthly operating cost and the amount of donations attributed to it.. let that feature's absence on this forum be a good reminder that the best things in life are free... just don't forget to donate to this forum, especially if you keep coming back... and you know who you are.... and if you don't know, you are not lost.. because in the end, we are all just a part of one glorious whole... ..excuse me........... (sound of squeaky gallows) ............


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

I can't believe I'm agreeing with Lobey, but the man has a point. Sewell is still thinking that a forum and a website are the exact same type of internet entity, they aren't. Let me post a few of the forums I frequent and maybe you will get an idea of what I'm trying to say about the differences.

 First we have Salute to Soda, which is a forum for soda collectors and employees in the soda world. While it does have some flashy graphics the mechanics are still very much the same as our present forums, and still have no resemblance to the type of websites that sewell has posted as examples of what he is looking for. http://salutetosoda.com/

 Antiqueradios.com's forums, I'm relatively new to this one but as you can see it is still very much along the same lines as we have here. http://antiqueradios.com/forums/index.php

 Then there is the Star Wars Action News forums which was the first forums I ever joined back in 2006, while it has gotten a facelift over the years it is still very much the same structure as this site and the others listed. http://www.reviewstarwars.com/forums/

 A forums serves a specific purpose and eliminates style in order to serve that purpose. As these sites prove you can put lipstick on a pig, but it's still a pig, because that is the nature of a forum type site. Some of these sites, have companion sites that incorporate more traditionaly website designs in them, there is still the fact that a website and a forum are two completely different entities.


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## morbious_fod (Aug 7, 2010)

> ORIGINAL:  Steve/sewell
> 
> Well spoken Oldtimer this was my whole point. This is a great place with some unbelievable people and knowledge. It just needs a little fine tuning. It is like having a 454 LS-6 with a blower, Edlebrock aluminum intake and headers flowing thru a fat straight pipe, a Ford 9 inch rear and you put all those great parts and atributes into..................................THIS


 
 As I have said that is what a forum is, an 81 Chevy van, utilitarian in the extreme, but it gets the job done. LOL!


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## glass man (Aug 12, 2010)

> class warfare jokes to a minumum OK PLEASE if you dont I'll slam the Beatles some more
> 
> _____________________________


 

 I LOVE YOU DEARLY STEVE MAN...YOU GOT A RIGHT TO SAY AND THAT IS ANOTHER REASON I LOVE THIS PLACE!!I DID NOT MEAN ANYTHING BAD BOUT YOU..WAS JUST FEELING KINDA BAD BOUT A BOTTLE I SOLD AT BIRMINGHAM..IT WAS TO A PERSON WHO HAS LOTS OF MONEY ,MANY THOUSAND DOLLAR+ BOTTLES ETC.I HAD TO SELL..BUT I CAME OFF $75 OFF THE PRICE AND THE PERSON WANTED $1 MORE OFF!!! OF COURSE HE DID NOT HOLD A GUN ON ME,BUT IT HURTS WHEN YOU KNOW A PERSON HAS SO MUCH,BUT A $1 MORE OFF? [:-]

 WHEN YOU NEED MONEY YOU NEED MONEY! I THANK GOD WE GOT THERE AND BACK...MADE SOME MONEY...WHEN WE GOT BACK OUR RADIATER WAS PEEING OUT WATER LIKE IT HAD BEEN SHOT FULL OF HOLES!!WELL WE HAD THE MONEY TO GET A NEW ONE CAUSE WE DID GET TO BIRMINGHAM!

 HEY BRO. YOU KNOW I LOVE THE BEATLES,BUT THEY AIN'T GOD OR GODS TO ME...HEY MAKE FUN OF EM ALL YOU WANT!

 WHEN THEY 1RST CAME OUT I HAD THE FAB 4 MOP TOP LOOK...MAN I HEARD MY MOM SAY A?????TIMES??? GET YOUR HAIR CUT YOU LOOK JUST LIKE A SHEEP DOG! AS THEY HAIR GOT LONGER OUR FIGHTING GOT MORE FREQUENT! THE LAST YEARS OF MOM'S LIFE SHE TOLD ALL HOW SHE HAD ALWAYS LOVED THE BEATLES AND GOT ON TO OLDER PEOPLEAND YOUNGER TOO AS THE BALD LOOK BECAME COOL...

 ONLY TOOK 30 OR SO YEARS,BUT MOM FINALLY CAME AROUND!![]

 THE BEST POLKING FUN AT THE BEATLES I HAVE SEEN IS THE MOVIE BY "THE RUTLES"..A MOCKUMENTERY OF THE BEATLES ,GEORGE HARRISON EVEN HAS A SMALL PART IN IT! HEY YOU ARE "GEAR AND FAB" IN MY BOOK!! MUNGO JERRY


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## glass man (Aug 12, 2010)

I LOVE THIS PLACE CAUSE WE ARE A FAMILY[DYSFUNCTIONAL AT TIMES,BUT WHAT FAMILY AIN'T EVEN THE WALTONS HAD SOME BAD FAMILY MOMENTS]! 

 IT IS A SHEER JOY TO SEE PICTURES OF BOTTLES ON HERE I HAVE NEVER HEARD OF!ALSO IT IS WONDERFUL TO SEE THE GREAT COLLECTIONS PEOPLE SHOW ON HERE!!

 THE BEST THING IS THE KNOWLEGE THAT IS FOUND ON HERE!!!MAN IF YOU CAN'T FIND OUT SOMETHING BOUT YOUR BOTTLE ON HERE...YOU PROBABLY WON'T FIND IT ANY WHERE ELSE!!

 IT IS THESE SIMPLE THREE THINGS THAT KEEP ME COMING HERE,OH YEAH CAUSE I AIN'T GOOD ON THE "INTERNETS" I LOVE THE SIMPLICITY OF THIS PLACE..AS OTHERS HAVE POINTED OUT...I HAVE TRIED TO GET ON SOME SITES OF INDIVIDUALS AND GIVE UP CAUSE IT IS LIKE GETTING THROUGH A MAZE OR DOING FRACTIONS FOR ME! JINNY LIND


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