# H. Lake's Indian Specific



## Alexm1087 (Sep 2, 2015)

I recently found a aqua/light blue bottle filled with dirt. And after cleaning it up I took some pictures of it. The bottle reads, " H. Lake's Indian Specific". Now I'm assuming this is some sort of medicine bottle. But I've never heard of it and nor local antique stores near me. Any one have any clue on this bottle?


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 2, 2015)

Welcome, I don't know much on the history other than is was right around 1850 and yes, a medicine. Nice bottle depending on condition.


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## nhpharm (Sep 2, 2015)

Very nice find!  In good shape these are a pretty high-dollar bottle-$600 or so.  From Geddes (now part of Syracuse), New York.  Date to the 1850's.  Love to see a photo.


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 2, 2015)

Here's links to pictures cuz uploader said too big.

http://i1282.photobucket....AG0273_zpszwd3je24.jpg
http://i1282.photobucket....AG0274_zpsbqq9pls4.jpg  [attachment=temp.jpg][attachment=temp2.jpg] _<Edit: Images uploaded>_


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## westKYdigger (Sep 2, 2015)

Beautiful find. Go back & kick some dirt.  Then go back again with a shovel.


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## botlguy (Sep 2, 2015)

That is a beautiful bottle, terrific form. Congratulations. You're poking around the correct area, go find some more.   Jim


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## Nevadabottles (Sep 2, 2015)

Nice find, very cool that is was on top of the ground undamaged.


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## 2find4me (Sep 3, 2015)

Wow, that is a very nice bottle. And valuable as well. Where ever you found it, there is a good chance more bottles are waiting to be found in the same area. Did you find it at a construction site? Did you have to dig to find it?


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 3, 2015)

Well I found it at a jobsite a few weeks ago buried in dirt under a house. I thought at first it was a broken bottle but when I pulled it out of the dirt it was just filled with dirt and no breaks in the bottle. If anything minor scratches.


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

Great bottle!! should be about a thousand dollars if pontiled, and in nice condition which yours looks like it is, cant tell about the pontil though, show us the base and we can let you know.........Andy


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 3, 2015)

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a536/alexm1087/IMAG0276_zpsbvto7cxo.jpg

Here's the bottom of the bottle.


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

pic didn't show up.........Andy


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 3, 2015)

Idk why it didn't show up but the link works

[attachment=temp.jpg]  _<Edit: Image uploaded>_


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

lotsa glare in the pic, but it looks pontiled to me, You gotta great bottle!!.............Andy


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

I have seen them go for 900.00 to 1200.00 dollars in no better condition than yours.......Andy


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 3, 2015)

Yea the flash didn't help but there's a casting formation on the bottom for sure.


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

Can you tilt the base a bit so it doesn't glare so much??   is the roughness on the base kinda sharp anywhere, as most open pontils are sharp someplace around the pontil area.......Andy


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

It is very important for assigning a value for the bottle that it be known whether it is pontilled or not....Andy


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 3, 2015)

Here's another picture. [attachment=temp.jpg] <Edit: Image uploaded>


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 3, 2015)

And it's sharp edged....I mean not enough to cut my finger but definitely sharpish


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

OHHHH yea It is very definitely a pontiled example, this is the nicest find that has been put on these forums for a long while. I would value it at at least 1200.00 dollars....NICE find..........GO BACK and find some more...............Andy


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 3, 2015)

Where does one go about selling these bottles?


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

e-bay.........Andy


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## andy volkerts (Sep 3, 2015)

somebody here might offer you close to that figure maybe,  but e-bay is the best way to go, easy to use and a bottle like that will go good, check on past sales, there have been a few........


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## botlguy (Sep 4, 2015)

I viewed the latest picture and that baby has a nice tubular rough or open pontil.   WINNER ! ! ! !Jim


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## sandchip (Sep 4, 2015)

Am I seeing a base chip at the edge, lower left in the first base pic, upper right in the second?  If so, it will affect the value somewhat.  Still, a great find in anybody's book!  Definitely need to go back and look for more.


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 4, 2015)

Well idk if I'm searching eBay right or not but on average bottles in this time period are go for $100 or less. I mean if someone was interested in it for the range ur saying it's worth I mean by all means I'm interested in selling it but if it worth $100 or less I miss well hold on it and let it get older and more rare.


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## cowseatmaize (Sep 4, 2015)

Again. condition is VERY important but just the word Indian has a whole subset of specialty collectors. There are also "Specific" collectors and "pontil" collectors, relative of Mr Lake and a number of others that can all effect price.Is that a base chip of some sort and how bad it so?As far as holding on to it, who knows if the world will exist in another 20+ years so enjoy what you can get. Heck, you got it free.Also think what would happen in there was a hoard of them under that building. Supply and demand you know.


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 4, 2015)

I'll have to look over it some more when I get home but idk if it's a natural "chip" or what I've never dealt with bottles before I just happened to find it in a dirt pile and was like well look at that it's still intact and decent shape. I didn't figure it was worth anything but I decided to clean it up and there's no cracks or anything really couple scrapes idk if it was part of the casting or just from being in the dirt. Usually when I find bottles they're broken.


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## botlguy (Sep 4, 2015)

I will just add that you really can't just go by the time period to establish value. There are lots of 1840s bottles worth less than $100. Take our word for it, that thing is worth in the hundreds even if it has a base chip. A flake would come off the base occasionally when the blow pipe was removed and that doesn't affect / effect value much if any. It depends on the individual collector how much they devalue something like that. I've found that eBay is usually the GREAT EQUALIZER.               Jim


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 4, 2015)

Ok so if I decide to list it on eBay. What should I start out with as a bid. And what key details should be listed?


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## andy volkerts (Sep 5, 2015)

Hey Alex just start it out for 9.95, low fees, and believe me with good clear pics, and a nice description, it will go for good money, I will personally put three hundred on it if and when you list it.......Andy


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## andy volkerts (Sep 5, 2015)

Just checked your pics and I don't see anything resembling a ding that shows on a frontal pic, and I don't see anything except maybe a small impact ding on the upper bottom right side in your last bottom pic, which wont affect the price much.........Andy


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## cannibalfromhannibal (Sep 5, 2015)

FANTASTIC FIND! Best bottle of the year, IMHO! I found a number of sold ones, and the top sellers for $1,000 or more numbered 9. The years were between 1992 and 2006 and ranged from a record (?) high of $3,080 to a low of $1008. None noted any damage and those with any damage dropped below a grand. Second highest came in at a much lower $1840, followed by $1680 & $1650. By throwing out the highest & lowest of this grouping to account for unreasonable bid wars or lack of interest, the average comes to $1,456 and change. On the damaged or lower end of the list and sold after the 2008 market collapse when most collectables fell off in value dramatically, there were 3 sold most recently in 2011 & 2010. One sold for $800, one for $700 and one with "pontil chips" (more likely impact damage) for $475. Any damage devalued the bottle dramatically. Still, not a bad haul for a good call to lug home a dirty old bottle! Again, congrats on a great find. If it were me, I would keep it but as a non collector I would list on ebay as suggested but would include a reserve (a hidden amount that it would need to reach before you are committed to sell.) of $500. Auctions have their high times and low times to sell or buy, and late summer is usually a low time to sell. It all depends on who is watching at the time and who has the deepest pockets. Good luck, though I doubt you will need it. Jack


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## Alexm1087 (Sep 5, 2015)

Well im gonna have my girlfriend grab her fancy camera from her parents so I can take better pictures than my phone to show any defects.


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## cannibalfromhannibal (Sep 5, 2015)

Alexm1087 said:
			
		

> Ok so if I decide to list it on eBay. What should I start out with as a bid. And what key details should be listed?


Most importantly to note any damage or flaws not originally made in the making. Since you found under a house, it is likely in pristine condition and the "scratches" you see are likely stretch marks common on pontil era bottles. Your pics give the impression it has been pro cleaned, so I would mention where it was found and not tumbled. Some collectors shy away from this type of cleaning. Be sure to include the base with a CLEAR pic of the pontil as this is important, though I didn't find a smooth base example listed. The base "ding" some see in the pics looks to me like possibly a potstone, or a piece of crud or possibly a bubble. Bubbles are fine unless one side has opened but still considered minor at worst. If a bruise, it usually will have a rainbow color in the right light & angle and this will affect value to some degree. If it is a poststone or crud in the glass, look closely for any radiations or "spider legs" trailing away from it. These can expand and develop cracks which is not good. Neither are spider legs but are more acceptable than cracks but need to be mentioned for accuracy or you will be shipping it back & forth with refunds, etc. Believe me, been there, done that. Pain in the arse. Jack PS- Lastly, make sure the dirt is as removed as possible from the base as this seems to be the most offending area and could be a matter of removing some more dirt in the bottom. Might save you a few hundred bucks! If in doubt on damage, don't overstate what you aren't sure of. Take to a trusted antique dealer for their opinion. I have bought more than my fair share of bottles on the cheap because of damage noted that turned out to be dirt or in the making flaws! Jack


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## westernglassaddict (Sep 5, 2015)

I have never seen a Lake's that was not pontiled...this one is for sure as all are. Nice bottle that sells in the range of $800-$1200. They have come down recently as quite a few have been available. American Bottle Auctions has one on their "for sale" page which remains unsold. Great find and an 1850s piece. I would definitely investigate the site where it was found some more. Dale


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## RED Matthews (Sep 9, 2015)

Well it has been my finding that most of these early rectangular sunken pane bottles, were empontilled using an often off centered round punty rod, for the finish glass application and tooling.  RED Matthews


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## hemihampton (Sep 9, 2015)

Why put a $500 reserve on it unless you paid $500 or have $500 invested into it. If nothing invested in it, A Freebie like yours just list for opening bid of $9.99 & no reserve & see what happens. Also, Reserves scare alot of people away & prevent many from bidding at all. You'd probaly get more bids & higher price without a reserve. LEON.


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## Bass Assassin (Sep 10, 2015)

Alexm, you have received a ton of great information from several people here. I agree, that is one of the best bottle finds posted here in quite some time. Please keep us updated on this bottle. A great big congratulations to you


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## andy volkerts (Sep 10, 2015)

GO BACK FOR MORE!!!!!!!!


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## cannibalfromhannibal (Sep 12, 2015)

hemihampton said:
			
		

> Why put a $500 reserve on it unless you paid $500 or have $500 invested into it. If nothing invested in it, A Freebie like yours just list for opening bid of $9.99 & no reserve & see what happens. Also, Reserves scare alot of people away & prevent many from bidding at all. You'd probaly get more bids & higher price without a reserve. LEON.


Leon, the obvious reason for a reserve is to not let a thousand dollar bottle float away for $9.99! Plus, one can always announce the reserve amount in the listing, eliminating those unwilling to spend that amount. It's not the reserve that usually scares people off of bidding, it's either greed (wanting something for nothing) or the feeling one is wasting their time. There is a reason for reserves and it works, otherwise it would simply stop existing. Plus, the bottle is worth at least $100 to the owner as he says he would hold on to it rather than sell for less, so there is an "implied" reserve in that statement. I was trying to give him ideas on options, or rather what I would do in his position. I personally would not risk loosing that much money without protecting the value it may bring, regardless of "investment." I once listed a bottle I bought for $45 for $9.99 thinking it was at least a $100 bottle. It turned out to be a rare one that sold for $957. I got lucky 3 ways that time. First for recognizing it was a bottle worth at least double what I paid for it, second for having it sell for what it sold for, and third being ignorant of it's true value. I most certainly would have had a reserve of $500 on that one and I am equally convinced the bottle would have sold for the same amount. But this is all speculation. If it doesn't sell with a reserve, list it again and lower the reserve, or not.


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## hemihampton (Sep 12, 2015)

I highly doubt any $1,000 bottle would slip away for a $9.99 opening bid. Possible but highly unlikely. Not much flies under the radar any more & Snipers always laying in wait. Your $45 bottle proves my point, Why put a reserve on that for $45 or $100 or $500 if it's gonna get $957. Myself I may of put $45 reserve on it just to make sure I got my money back.  If he wants no less then $100 then just put on ebay with opening bid of $100 or $99. I think ebay wants like $10 now for $500 reserve. You pay that reserve $ if it sells or not. LEON.


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## andy volkerts (Sep 12, 2015)

I do not think for a minute that this bottle will get less than its worth on e-bay, it just doesn't happen much anymore, this is a thousand dollar bottle we are discussing here, a much better specimen than what is pictured on A.B. Auctions sales page. A minimum bid of 100.00 dollars is not needed, this bottle will reach its potential without any trouble at all. And I will put a minimum bid of three hundred on it anyways, would be foolish not to, plus there are others here which would probably bid more. JUST LET US KNOW when you decide to list it..........Andy


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## hemihampton (Sep 13, 2015)

Yeah, I agree. LEON.


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## Nevadabottles (Sep 13, 2015)

Can someone post the link I'm interested in seeing what it goes for.


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## Lordbud (Sep 13, 2015)

When listing on ebay I would make sure your listing title includes "H. Lake's Indian Specific/pontil" and anything else pertinent to the bottle. In my opinion you shouldn't need to pay ebay for a "reserve price" on this bottle. It is an incredible find. I would never sell this if I found it myself.


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## RED Matthews (Sep 15, 2015)

It looks good to me.  The so called pontil mark is off center- so it wasn't created in the bottom plate. RED Matthews


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 30, 2015)

Not to long ago someone got a cobalt torp from Philly I think for $35 on ebay. He turned it for over $800 without a problem.It does happen that things go unnoticed for whatever reason.


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## Robby Raccoon (Oct 30, 2015)

A couple weeks back I volunteered to do a write-up of the club meeting because the man who normally runs the show was (is still) 'out of commission.' Whilst taking notes and trying to gather every bit of info possible, I learned (a bit hard to believe, but I can only report what I'm told) about and then wrote this later that night:".... and transitioned into the Chelsea (Ann Arbor,) Michigan show where a very-rare Summer-Winter flask sold for $7,000. From what I could gather, it was bought in a Plymouth, Michigan antique shop for the grand sum of $15." Yeah, things go unnoticed. $4,000 for the bottle. $3,000 to the look-out who spotted it and reported back to the buyer is what I had heard.  Apparently this pontiled/colored/applied-top bottle had everything going for it and was absolutely stunning.


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## cowseatmaize (Oct 30, 2015)

Cool story Robert, I like that it got somehow split and in a fair way. I need that to happen to me, maybe I wouldn't be so far in debt. It doesn't however relate to the ebay reserve thing which was what I was attempting to do.


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## hemihampton (Oct 30, 2015)

Some things on ebay go cheap because they are listed in wrong category, have poor description & does not show up in many searches or have a cheap buy it now price. LEON.


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## hemihampton (Oct 30, 2015)

I don't think original poster is reading any of this. He has not logged in since September 9th. One hit wonder? LEON.


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## sunrunner (Oct 30, 2015)

all I have to say , is oh bother ! I just soled a box of doll parts for 60.00 bucks and thought I was doing alright . some times y'all get out of hand .


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## Robby Raccoon (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm told that Michigan people are nice and fair but really bad drivers. The bad driving part is true. Sometimes I question the other part as well...But I was also told that the bottle was likely worth much more than the payment, Eric. lol.  Hemi, I'm told that I was expected to be the same-- a "one hit wonder." Maybe he'll also come back.  Jim, that is a very good price.


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## hemihampton (Oct 30, 2015)

Would be nice if he'd come back to give us a update of what happened with bottle instead of leaving us hanging & wondering? LEON.


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