Vernors Ginger Ale 150th B-Day

[SODABOB]

According to the following, the Cohansey Glass Company never used bottle machines and all of their bottles were hand blown. Apparently they ceased operation in 1909 ...

"Trouble was eminent in 1909. In February and March, the glass works were only running two furnaces, but did not closedown as had been rumored. A hundred men and boys were without work for several months. In June, the glass worksclosed down for the summer as usual. In September, the glass works did not resume operations. The start was delayedto October 1st and then to November 1st. The delay wasn’t caused by a lack of orders as the company had enough ordersto keep the factory running steadily until the next spring.During this time of shutdown, several meetings were held between the workers and the firm. The matter was discussed,but a reply failed to be given. Many of the men left town for work in other plants. This was the first seriousunemployment that had occurred at the glass works.Finally in late November of 1909, the official announcement came by the head of the Cohansey Glass Works. The plantwould not run that year and the factory would be boarded up indefinitely. This was sad news for the town. Manymerchants lost hundreds of dollars, having trusted the glass blowers to pay as soon as the plant opened. The men hadbeen leaving town for weeks and there was a clearing out, many going to Bridgeton, New Jersey where there were largeglass works. During December, the apprentices, who had been learning glass blowing, were summoned to the office,paid off and given their paper as journeymen, being advised to look for work elsewhere.One of the biggest bottle contracts by a patent medicine firm, which for nine years were made at the Downingtown plant,had been transferred to Salem, New Jersey, and the men who worked on the medicine bottles had left Downingtown andothers followed.Why Did the Plant Close?Simply put, the work could be done cheaper in New Jersey. Material for the glass was cheaper and closed-at-hand,whereas they had difficulty in securing raw material (sand) at Downingtown in the quantity desired.Michael J. Owens invented a bottle-making machine which revolutionized the bottle making industry. By 1909, he haddeveloped a ten-arm machine, capable of producing more bottles per day with less workers."

 

[SODABOB]

If ...

Keith's bottle was made by the Cohansey Glass Company, then it appears to me it was most likely made sometime between ...


1900 and 1909

 

[SODABOB]

This is from earlier and is slightly edited for a better understanding of what's being said ...

Note: The key terms are "Heel" vs "Base" as to where certain marks are located.

1. C.G.CO. on the heel with no accompanying numbers.
2. C.G.CO. on the ​heel, followed by a two-or-three-digit number.
3. C.G.CO. on the heel (usually reverse heel) with a three-digit number on the base.
4. C.G.CO., followed by a two-or-three-digit number (or no number), all on the base.

Bottles with heel logos followed by numbers (#2 in the above list) were apparently only made by the Cohansey Glass Co.

 

[hemihampton]

BUT, We are not sure what Co. manufatured the bottle, to much speculation & what if's? LEON.

 

[SODABOB]

Keith

Here's Bill Lockhart's email address ... bottlebill@tularosa.net

Bill is a leading member of the Bottle Research Group (BRG), and with the help of other members, did the research and wrote the Coshocton and Cohansey Glass Company histories, not to mention numerous other bottle articles. I recommend contacting him about your Vernor's bottle and see what he has to say about it. Be sure to attach some pictures, especially a close up of the C.G.CO. mark. Bill is a great guy who I have communicated with many times over the years and I'm sure he would find your bottle to be of interest. And don't be shy - let him know you're the Vernors Guy. I think he will get a kick out of that and bend over backwards to help date your bottle as close to accurate as anyone I know can. But please be patient about hearing back from him. He is retired now and does a lot of traveling. If you contact him, please let us know what he has to say.

 

[VernorsGuy]

A few odd topics:

1. Thanks for the lead on a C.G. CO. bottle expert. That will be interesting information. I will follow-up with the group when I hear back.
2. I have attached a photo of an extract bottle that I don't own. I think this may have been for sale on Ebay many years ago. I love the "Detroit's Drink" logo on it. I believe "Detroit's Drink" was used later than the era we're concerned with - like around 1920.



3. I have started re-reading this entire post from the beginning. I've made it to page 21 so far! However, after having all this new information in my head, I can't help but think the 1911 trademark application was misinterpreted.

Two articles doubting Vernor's age were quoted earlier in this post.

One said "Indeed, a trademark for "Vernor's" was not even applied for until 1911, at which time James Vernor claimed that the ginger ale entered commerce in 1880—not 1865."

Another said "His ginger ale entered commerce in 1880, according to a 1911 application for a federal trademark on “Vernor’s” as a name for ginger ale and ginger ale extract."

Both of those quotes are inaccurate. What James Vernor really said in the trademark application was "The trademark has been continuously used in my business since about January 1, 1880." He says nothing about when he started making ginger ale. The application also says "trademark shown in the accompanying drawing". So, he's only talking about his trademark being used, not extract or ginger ale being made. The "drawings" were actual labels for extract and the earliest paper label for carbonated ginger ale - which was probably not 1880 vintage.

I still believe Vernor made ginger ale, and probably other flavors, at his drug store for many years before he figured out that would be his money maker. Once he figured that out, sometime around 1880, it became Vernor's Ginger Ale.

True, still no absolute proof. But, I don't think the trademark application saying 1880 is proof of anything either, except that he took 31 years to apply for it. If the application proves anything, it proves Vernor started using his trademark "Vernor's Ginger Ale" (or "Vernor's Ginger Ale Extract"). It says nothing about when he started making the extract.

Still hoping the recipe book the Detroit Historical Museum has will give us some proof.

Keith

 

[hemihampton]

"I still believe Vernor made ginger ale, and probably other flavors, at his drug store for many years before he figured out that would be his money maker. Once he figured that out, sometime around 1880, it became Vernor's Ginger Ale.

True, still no absolute proof. But, I don't think the trademark application saying 1880 is proof of anything either, except that he took 31 years to apply for it. If the application proves anything, it proves Vernor started using his trademark "Vernor's Ginger Ale" (or "Vernor's Ginger Ale Extract"). It says nothing about when he started making the extract"



I agree with this statement above. I kinda said that same thing earlier. LEON.

 

[SODABOB]

I'm still trying to identify and possibly date the C.G. Co. bottle and during the course of my search have found hundreds of bottles with that mark. As it turns out, they are actually quite common. And yet, there are mixed opinions as to who the mark(s) belonged to and when they were made. The general consensus boils down to either Coshocton Glass or Cohansey Glass, but no one seems to know for sure. So what I'm doing is focusing on a single brand whose bottles bare that mark and see what I can find. The brand I'm referring to is The Grand Rapids Brewing Company of Grand Rapids, Michigan. I selected that particular brand because it was located in Michigan and in operation between about 1892 and 1920, which fits nicely with the Vernor's bottling era. Anyway, not all of the Grand Rapids Brewing bottles are marked with C.G. CO., but there appears to be enough of them to conduct a worthwhile search. I'm hoping if I can find some common denominator between Grand Rapids Brewing and Vernor's Ginger Ale that I might be able to find a more definitive answer regarding the who, what, when, and where for the C.G. CO. mark. I'll let you know if/when I find anything.

 

[iggyworf]

"I still believe Vernor made ginger ale, and probably other flavors, at his drug store for many years before he figured out that would be his money maker. Once he figured that out, sometime around 1880, it became Vernor's Ginger Ale.

True, still no absolute proof. But, I don't think the trademark application saying 1880 is proof of anything either, except that he took 31 years to apply for it. If the application proves anything, it proves Vernor started using his trademark "Vernor's Ginger Ale" (or "Vernor's Ginger Ale Extract"). It says nothing about when he started making the extract"

Great work Kieth and everyone else. These statements sound very plausible to me also. When I have time I am also going back to reread everything in this thread.

 

[SODABOB]

P.S.

This Grand Rapids Brewing Co. paper label was described as being original and still adhered to an original bottle that is marked on the heel with C.G. CO. Barely visible in the lower right corner of the label is Michigan Litho Co. Grand Rapids. I did a search for the lithographing company and discovered they began operation in 1901. Because beer bottles were typically not returned/recycled, there's a pretty good chance the bottle dates to about 1901 at the earliest. Anyway, these are the type of clues I'm working with, and hopefully will find more, that will eventually lead to some manageable dates (maybe).