DATING ACL SODA BOTTLES ... (PART I)

[SODAPOPBOB]

splante ~

If you've had the time and opportunity to re-read the so called Dating Game link, then perhaps you may know what I mean by it being a little complex. If you are not familar with Bill Lockhart, he is considered by many to be a pretty good authority on this subject, and possibly the best. He has spent years doing research and is often quoted in collector books and elsewhere. And yet, he openly admids there is still research to be done in certain areas.

So with all of the above said, back to your question as to why a Owens-Illinois / Duraglas soda bottle would have a single digit (no dot) 7 to the right of the symbol? Answer: I am not entirely sure myself. Except I do know that any bottle with Duraglas on it would definitely be after 1940. But I see your point in that the 7 in this case 'could' possibly indicate either a year of production for 1947 or 1957. So which one is it?

Another area that confuses me a little on some of this dating stuff is what is often referred to as "Transition Periods." Which means that so called gray area between discontinuing one mark and introducing a new one. Bill Lockhart speaks of this as well.

I'm not sure there is a clear answer regarding the last bottle you posted. Other than there may be a clue of some kind involving the other numbers and letters. And, of course, all of this is based on my own experiences and research, and possible something that someone else has a more definitive answer to.

It's funny in a way, because I've had several bottles in the past with similar marks like yours, but for some unexplainable reason never thought of them as being other than 1950s bottles. I also believe they are the exception to the rule, and that the majority of 1950s bottles will have the double-digit code like this ... 23 <(I)> 57

I hope this helps. And if you or anyone else has something more specific to add, please do so. I too am learning a lot about this myself, and am wide open to learn more and more.

(And now I have to break the bad news to Morb that I struck out on the Chattanooga stuff too. In fact, I think I just informed him. Sorry Morb ... it turns out that Chattanooga stuff is beyond me, with very little to be found regarding specifics. But I think you already knew that).

Thanks to all. This ain't a "stick a fork in it" done thread yet. (I hope).

SPBOB []

 

[splante]

hey I would never lose faith...your infomation is great..and you handle the curve balls very well..thanks for all your help and info....
.finding quite a few bottles from the 30"s and fortys (like I said before from the flood uprooting them and bringing them downstream.).
I finally think I found the source along the river bank while I was in the canoe two weeks ago..had no digging material with me,and found out later I cant reach the area on foot.
I will have to canoe to it again..but you can see where the flood caused a mini mudslide along the banks and glass, and shards are sticking out of the bank every where along it. Cant wait to start probing and digging that area(some of the shards seem to be pre 20"s) will keep you informed and will have more dating questions for you
thanks again

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

splante ~

I'm not kidding when I say this, but a "Hunting Bottles By Canoe" is the perfect title for a two-hour program on The History Channel. Seriously ... That would be one interesting adventure and something I personally would love to participate in. Can you imagine a river bank loaded with old soda bottles and the like? And not just that, but a river bank accessible only by water. It don't get any better or more exciting than that!

Please take a ton of photos (and possibly some on-location notes) and share them with the rest of us when you get back. Providing you get back? ... Don't they have gators, snakes, lions, tigers and bears in that neck of the woods? Lol []

Be careful - Have fun - and "Keep'em All!"

SPBOB

 

[splante]

yes will keep you updated, and will bring camera on the next trip..coming up soon. No lions tigers or bears..just have to look over my shoulder so other canoist dont see whats going on LOL,
like I said I havent dug yet.
everything I have found leading up to THE source were just laying around down stream including the two browine club bottles from the mid 30's

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

The Coca Cola bottle (shown at very botom of this page) is one I found yesterday along the shoulder of an old country road. I thought it would make an interesting case study involving the dating of early ACLs.

For starters is this copy/pasted text (and possible photo / which may or may not transfer) indicating that Coca Cola's first acl was introduced in 1957. And which is the date I have a always accociated with.

Evolution Bottle #11 - Years: 1957 - 1959
Important Words On Bottle: "Coca-Cola" script logo
Description: Hobbleskirt, 6 1/2 oz. painted label, half raised letter, crown sealed, returnable
Historical Notes: Officially called "Applied Colored Labeling" or A.C. L. This was the first use of ACL on Coke bottles. Coca-Cola script appears on both sides.

And here is the bottle I found yesterday ... (More to follow on next page).[/align]

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

The reason I showed the bottle from the side is to point out that it has the Coca Cola script on both sides which indicates one of the earlier acls. Later in the 1960s one side of the bottle would say "COKE" in block print.

But notice on the photo of the base that it clearly indicates my bottle was made in 1956. Which is one year earlier than I had previously thought they came out. So now I'm wondering ... hmmm ... what's going on here with the conflicting dates?

And then after re-researching my query I find this ... Copy/pasted

{The first Coca Cola ACL bottle, which was called the transition bottle, was used from 1955 to ’61. Next was the 1961 ACL bottle, which was used until ’63. The ’63 ACL was used until 1965, the ’65 ACL until 1968, and the ’68 ACL was used into the ’90s. There was also a 1972 ACL bottle, with a red and white label, that was also used up to the 1990s}.

So now I know there were some so called "transition" bottles starting in 1955. Which, apparently, is what my bottle is. (I hope you're following this - it's not complicated but easy for me to mess up if I don't explain it properly). I'm still researching the plant location for 8B ... but it appears to be a transfer code designation from Glassboro, NJ to a plant in New Orleans, LA. sometime in the late 1950s or early 60s. The 23 is a mold number of some kind.

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

So the conclusion I have arrived at is that 1955-1957 were transition dates, and that the full production/distribution date(s) for the first Coca Cola acls wasn't until around 1957.

Lastly is this copy/pasted info regarding the Owens-Illinois mark like the one on my bottle, which is an "I" inside of an "O", and looks something like this ... (I)

I hope you have found all of this to be helpful, I know I did! Lol []

Thanks,

SPBOB

You will notice that even this information is a wee-bit confusing. So I guess I'm not alone in that respect.

{"I" within an "O"... Owens-Illinois Glass Company, Toledo, OH [head office], 22 glass factory locations in the US and Canada. (1929-to date), mark used c. 1954 to the present. The diamond was removed from the "old" mark (diamond superimposed over an "I" and an "O" or oval) beginning around 1954, although some bottle molds apparently didn't have the diamond eliminated (I.e., the mold re-engraved) until as late as 1958. (However, I have a soda bottle in my collection with the "old" mark, dated 1959!) After 1958 the great majority of O-I bottles carried the "new" simplified mark of just an I inside an O. On recent bottles, this mark may be small, faintly embossed and not always easily visible, and usually is embossed on the heel of the container. Owens-Illinois, Inc. is presently (2005) the official corporation name (used since 1965).}

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

I realize the following Owens-Illinois information is a bit much, but as this is an ongoing project I decided to go ahead and post it anyway. Just think of it as an "advanced" version of something previously discussed. Plus, I honestly expect it to be of help in the future. This is the most detailed info I am aware of regarding the dating of Owens-Illionois soda bottles. I especially like the part where it addresses the "I" as sometimes being invisible, or possibly appearing as a "tiny dot."

~ * ~

Diamond superimposed over an oval [letter O] and an I ... Owens-Illinois Glass Company, Toledo, OH (head office) and other plant locations (1929-to date). Two examples of the mark are shown here. This mark was used from 1929 (possibly not actually engraved on molds until early 1930) up to c.1957. As there was a gradual changeover to the 'new' trademark (with the diamond removed) which occurred over a period of four or five years (beginning in 1954), some bottle molds already in use were not re-engraved until as late as 1957 or 1958. (I have a soda bottle dated 1959 with this "old" mark!). However, after 1958 the great majority of O-I bottles carried the "new" trademark, which was simply an I inside an oval. (See "I inside an O" mark). On very small bottles, the mark may be indistinct and the "I" may be invisible, or just a tiny dot. On the typical bottle, there is usually a number to the left of, to the right of, and below, the trademark. (Note: This arrangement is the most commonly seen, but some bottles, such as liquor flasks, are marked in other ways and so are found with a different code configuration.) The number on the LEFT of the diamond logo is the plant code number, the number on the RIGHT is a date code, and the number below the logo indicates the mold cavity or serial number. Examples: plant code #2 stood for the Huntington, WV plant; "3" was the Fairmont, WV plant; "7" indicated Alton, IL; "9", the Streator, IL factory; "12" was Gas City, IN; "14" was the Bridgeton, NJ plant, etc. Some of the numbers have been re-used for other plants opened in later years, however. For a page with more plant code numbers, courtesy of Dick Cole (fruitjar.org), click here . Known as Owens-Illinois, Inc. since 1965, (and officially known as just "O-I" since 2005), this corporation is currently (2010) the largest manufacturer of glass containers in the western hemisphere, with plants located worldwide. Owens-Illinois has continued to diversify in recent years into other types of industries, including plastic and metal packaging. Click here for one of many pages from O-I's offical website. This one has a brief overview of glass container manufacturing.

~ * ~

Example One Photo ...

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Example Two Photo ...

 

[SODAPOPBOB]

Example Three Image ...